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Kindly help me narrow down my healthcare stock picks (info in description)
ELV stock falls as 2023 earnings outlook misses forecast (NYSE:ELV)
Can we make health insurance companies listen to the people?
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This was really insightful, thank you. ELV took a dump and CNC took a mini dump. Wasn't exactly happy but I think if CNC had more to lose it would have. My sept 19 30c are down about 25%. My 1y 25c leaps are only down a bit. Earnings coming premarket 7.25 for CNC. My theory for now is that CNC will pump a little before earnings since the worst seems more than priced in already. If nothing else IV might rise pre-earnings which should help a bit. I'll probably exit the 9/19 calls pre-earnings and average down on the leaps.
Still holding. Obviously didn't go according to plan. April earnings was stellar as i expected. But UNH dragged ELV down so much it didn't matter. ELV is absorbing higher than expected costs. But they grew revenue 14% from prior year. Carelon is still growing at over 30% YoY. Have to wait for a rotation out of tech. Of all the insurance companies ELV imo still looking the strongest and most poised for a rebound.
I really hope earnings go well unlike the other health insurance companies (UNH, CNC, ELV).
Judging by how ELV did today, idk man. Might be best to DCA, dip the toes in now and if it goes south, buy more after earnings. Valuation is crazy, down 50%, expectations already super low for earnings. I think they'll beat earnings by a big margin but market only cares about guidance.
Where there's pain CAG UNH ELV, US energy there's a lot out there
i mean if CNC is next to report, and do you think this will be a good news? ELV reported and got raped. Same thing will happen next week, so another doom and gloom for 2 more weeks of anoos bleeding for UNH... and the day of their actual report, i dont even have confidence anymore. Yeah i know, the price is below that of the CEO's share purchase, but yeah, its so much FUD i cant take it anymore
yeah ELV's numbers weren't that bad, but their guidance during the call dropped year end EPS estimates about $4 per share (from $34 consensus to $30), hence the 11% drop. If UNH has a similar EPS guidance cut during earnings, that would be from $22.15 (current analyst EPS guidance) to around $18 EPS. That seems quite low, considering they already lowered from $30 to about $26 during the beginning of the year, but anything can happen. New CEO might want to come in super conservative on guidance so he can say they beat their earnings at end of the year, but we will see. Seems like market is partially pricing this in already with the recent dump, but it's clear everyone is looking at guidance right now and not much else.
RH started not reacting so I sold my ELV calls that I bought at the perfect bottom for break even. Would be up 4k now holy shit.
Crazy take but I actually don’t think UNH is an awful buy right here. Yes ELV lowered their guidance but UNH had already done that and warned the next year would be rough. Obviously they could lower it again next week but sooner rather than later UNH will be oversold
ELV had shit earnings
ELV earnings/guidance.
ELV slashed its guidance, not a great sign
fucking ELV could’ve just made up guidance to pump stock
ELV missed on earnings. Lowered guidance. So more bad news from the insurance sector as a whole
MSTR market cap more than ELV lol based on bitcoin vibes
Must see what ELV future guidance and actual earnings call is. The report is not enough in its own.
ELV needs to do more "AI" and cut the domestic workforce
ELV earnings outlook huge YIKES. It will kill UNH today.
ELV end movement will dictate my puts or calls for UNH earnings. And then I’ll reverse that decision. 🪖
Elevance $ELV just got destroyed. UNH bag holders sweating bullets rn.
See how the sector will react tmr with ELV earnings but I believe bottom is priced in now thru it’s own earnings.
Looks like my UAL are cooked still got Pepsi and ELV tho
Bought UNH calls for ELV ER just because, vibes will move this market(I hope)
UAL and ELV calls heavy for earnings. Letsss goooo
Puts or calls on ELV for earnings? Looks beaten down just like UNH.
ELV for earnings tomorrow [https://www.gptplots.com/?ticker=ELV](https://www.gptplots.com/?ticker=ELV)
Anyone know what time ELV earnings are today?
I did cross the 150 moving average on monthly timeframe and was well on its way to the 200 moving average. I think UNH will do well in the future, but short term, I'm looking for $285 as another support level on where I would add more shares to it. But maybe you're correct and ELV will have no influence on it. I'm just curious to see if the whole sector will react in case ELV gives a poor outlook/guidance. https://preview.redd.it/2i02ryn1u7cf1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=d6da8ac9fc589dfc5b25350de402055ccc050b7e
It hasn't touched that MA on the monthly and ELV earnings I doubt will affect it. UNH is #4 in XLV whereas ELV is 21st. The two show little correlation to eachother. If anything ELV is weaker and their earnings would provide sentiment at best. It is not something I'm watching for no.
They're not going down the drain. They dominate the industry in customers, revenues, margins, etc. Even after this recent fall in their stock price, they're still >3x more valuable than any other insurer. Also CLOV is a shit penny stock. ELV, CNC, and OSCR are all better stocks if you want UNH competitors. CI too, but they kind of have a different business model.
Don't you think a test of the 150 moving average on monthly candles, i.e. $285 in combination with $ELV earnings might be a possibility?
Now we know. Puts on ELV is the next play.
Buy ELV instead? Dragged down with ELV but future looks brighter.
Well not much of a dip, but I did add to LULU, ELV
I'm still willing to sell puts on it and have bought some shares but I'm staying away from calls because I don't expect a quick rebound. I expect similar price action to ELV from when it was over $500 and languished in the low $400s for months before the fraud investigations caused the leg down under $380. Even though I hate the company and think they're turning their customer base and providers against them, I think they have enough market power to avoid the sort of damage a retailer like Target has faced from customer revolt. UNH has been overpriced and now it's not (unless legal trouble materializes in a big way).
Nope still a ber cave. You’d probably be better off with ELV tbh not under investigation.
The senate is already whining about the medicare cuts in the bill. Load up on insurance calls. They are calling for a July 4th deadline to pass bill. Im looking at July 18 ELV.
Seriously? Just from looking at my screener: CI, GM, F, ELV, CVS, CAH, CNC, PSX, VLO… In fact, UNH’s current market cap as a percentage of revenue still seems to be an outlier in its own category. Not saying it’s a bad investment, but having an MC below revenue isn’t a great buy indicator (eg, WBA, which has FY revenue 15x its MC, but also is very far from a sound investment these days).
UNH is down but all healthcare is. If (when) medicaid cuts get removed from big beautiful bill, they should pop. Im looking at UNH and ELV.
UNH 11.47 P/E Market Cap of 248B ELV 15.22 P/E MC of 88B CI 17 P/E MC of 82B CVS 14.45 P/E MC of 76B CNC 9 P/E MC of 30B (The cash flow shrinkage keeps me away from this one) HUM 16 P/E MC of 27.5B MOH 15 P/E MC of 17B OSCR 60 P/E MC of 4.2B a 15 P/E feels appropriate for the group. Today's move down was imo a great opportunity.
ELV, CVS,.CNS .... CI fwd PE is 9. You are looking at TTM which is useless.
lol was just taking a look at CI, HUM, and ELV
I need ELV & UHN to dump and AMZN APPL SPY to pump. Thanks
Pharma stocks are falling as expected. UNH and ELV barely up. I hope this is good news for my ELV puts
Why can't ELV do the same?
Anyone playing ELV earnings tomorrow? I need some poor outlooks due to medicare changes 🙏🏻
In ELV let’s see how this goes boiz staying true to my plan risked my tendies for this
Balls deep into ELV puts at the open 400 380 370 360 350. UNH repeat 🙏
Puts on LMT ELV NG RXT calls on PM ATT SAP
Possible. UNH didn't factor in Medicare( since they use deny them ) and higher costs. ELV was i think 3 or 4th in line for denial but still 10% lower then UNH. They posted pre earnings that are on par w what they thought but doesn't include Medicare and higher costs. I don't think it will have 20% drop tho. Humana is another one too
What does anyone think of ELV direct competitor to UNH on Tue AM?
ELV pre-announced their earnings. I wouldn't bet against LMT. This is a stock that boomers run to in times of economic instability, so they pay shit the bed with earnings, but the morning after boomers just buy up the stock on a "discount". Don't bet against the American war machine.
Either buying ELV puts Or LMT puts 5-16 then roll profits into Tesla puts $200 or $220 5-16 after that hits roll profits again into NDAQ calls before Wednesday close then roll profits one last time into SKX puts lmk your thoughts boizzzz should I start off the week with ELV or LMT im undecided both have good bearish case
ELV pre announced earnings (similar business to UNH) and they expect to beat earnings estimate. They did, however, expand their Medicare Advantage enrollment… although they claim that it won’t be an issue for them (that’s the reason UNH dropped was costs associated with MA). Puts are imo too risky, so long as they don’t say anything dumb the stock goes up. General Motors has earnings on 4/29 BMO, considering grabbing puts as the guidance will be heavily dependent on raw materials & 🥭. Shorting Tesla seems like a bad move in general. American Airlines (AAL) looks like a good shorting opportunity, last quarter for them was embarrassing and I don’t see how the company can turn around now. Contrarily, LUV is in a slightly better spot than AAL, but I don’t see the benefit in playing their earnings. Intel is in a unique position as a semiconductor business, but tariffs for raw materials will make it difficult for the company to issue good guidance. The Google lawsuit is likely going to be a non-issue for earnings. The big mover for the week is probably a stock I didn’t mention tbh.
This market has been nonstop  at every piece of bad news. No put is too obvious unless the implied volatility is insane (which creates the risk it will go down but not to breakeven). I know nothing about ELV but I looked their options chain up and IV is low, so go for it.
You missed the UNH train? ELV has earning next Tuesday. They are similar to UNH. Get your lotto in. I got mine
You think ELV puts already priced in?
You've got time. It might come back, but this would not have been the trade to make. You should have looked at its competitors. I went with ELV calls instead. Either HUM or ELV would have been perfect buy at the open and let it rally. UNH didn't make that rally until 2-3 days after the earnings report last quarter.
Honestly it has been clawing its way back along with ELV and HUM, UNH has held about a 20% haircut
ELV does not follow the broad market. It does not follow trump. Instead, it follows me.! It goes up every damn day if i am not long. It stops as soon as i am in.
Health insurers mooning ah on news gov't increasing medicare payments by 5% / 25 billion. UNH ELV
I put everything on ELV. NO Regrets so far
I've been watching ELV since early Dec when it dropped to $365. It's bounced up and down $380-400 since then, but with increased dividends recently and their CEO Gail being massively more invested in her sharehodlers than her employees, it's just a matter of time before this shoots back up to the 500s. I grabbed 20 shares at $386 a few days ago on a limit + afterhours buy hoping it would drop below $390. It's not a ton, but I feel good knowing I won't get mad at myself for not pulling the trigger once it maintains its forward trajectory.
When will healthcare stocks go up UNH and ELV? I thought they are defensive
I need unh and ELV to pump Bigly tomorrow
My “good” company portofolio would like to talk to you. I have UNH and ELV calls who have cash and are profitable check their charts fucking sad and government thinks they can Do something about insurance.
Fucking unh and ELV can’t go green for more than a day wtfff
Which one in healthcare would you pick like UNH, ELV or Cigna?
Down $25k expiring in March hoping for any bounce ELV
wtf happens to ELV and unh? Healthcare stocks dropping
I have $570 3/14 GL to us. Any idea why unh and ELV dropped today? For no reason
Anyone balls deep in ELV calls?
Shouldn’t it be bullish? They are also super undervalued ELV has P/E ratio of 15 wtf people are still selling it
Not a good day for health insurance stocks. UNH, CVS, ELV all down over 2%
Are managed healthcare companies defensive? Inflation proof UNH ELV?
Well ive got around 15 holdings. Currently top 3 holdings are TLT, ULTA, and ELV. Not adding much if anything to those, but am buying up CMCSA and DG. For picking stocks I use my spreadsheet most of the time.
wtf happened to UNh ELV? Why sudden drop
CVS is interesting because it's been said that their divestments are potentially worth more than managed together. CVS is trading at a lower P/E than it's 5 year average and the entire healthcare industry (insurers mostly and some pharma companies) have been hit with negative RFK sentiment. For insurers, the market assumed Trump would de-regulate everything, but seems like he prefers pharma companies over PBMs based on recent comments. However, I think we're seeing how even bipartisan supported bills like the PBM bill is not so easy to pass and Trump has a lot of priorities (e.g. crpyto, immigration, tariffs, taxes, deregulation, small things like support for TikTok, etc.). Not everything he does is going to get done or in a way that is as negative as the headlines suggest. Meanwhile health insurance stocks (ELV, CVS) are trading at lower than 2020 P/E ratios. UNH is still generally highly valued, but wonder if it's good time to invest. Especially given the lower beta compared to SPY and QQQ given their defensive benefits compared to other risk assets. Tech and interest rate sensitive stocks have run up a lot, so wonder if this is a good opportunity when sentiment is low.
To me, your take is valid and right. Yes, debt can be a risk if the individuals cannot afford the costs. The question is, whose risk is that? There are quite many players in healthcare industry and I wager some are insensitive to the payments of individuals. It is easy to figure out who has the power to complete the money transaction. You may check accounts receivable and accounts payable in balance sheet section of annual and quarterly reports. If accounts receivable is stable - it means the company is able to close the deals without any payment problems. It also means the company has negotiation power over its customers. Reverse logic works for accounts payable. Another indicator could be Net margin. The healthcare companies I follow in Drug manufacturers sector typically have more than 20% net income of its revenue (e.g. LNTH, AMPH, ALKS). On the other hand, Healthcare Plan companies (e.g. MOH, CNC, ELV) operate with 3% if lucky. Medical Care facilities (e.g. ADUS, CCRN, OPCH) work for app. 5%. Disclaimer: I only own AMPH and MOH among the mentioned stocks
It’s not a buy over $80. ELV, UNH and CI are better buys at the current time.
I got bags full of ELV calls
Good oversold and ELV need to follow idk why that bitch is laggin
Idk why ELV keeps falling, fucking shit sellers can’t stop
Why is there no bounce in ELV?
Kaiser, UNH, ELV all use the same structure. PBMs have the greatest margins and profitably compared to just the insurance side. If they do a law to force divestment you can guarantee insurance rates will have to increase substantially to make up for the lost revenue.
I got called in ELV it’s been selling off so much who gives a shit about fundamentals anymore and undervalued companies.
Anyone dare to buy UNH ELV calls????
Why is no one buying UnH calls or ELV calls?
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