KYC

DangerousPurpose5661

Why would we need to interact with so many vendors? You’re offering a solution for a problem that’s non-existant. If you have a specialized task that requires a specialized agent, you register for an API key and they bill your card. Why would I want my agent to spend my money on random agents, without my approval? And KYC is not there for fun - giving ownership to a piece of software is absolutely problematic. You’re going to have malware scamming people without anyone accountable since the owner is the agent? Yikes… no thanks?

Jenn2895

Of course I keep books & file taxes. Nobody said you don't. The point is about *how* you log them. If an AI agent executes 50,000 transactions a day a human can’t manually type those into QuickBooks. You use Ai accounting agents to bridges the API ledgers directly into your traditional tax software. & you are confusing 2 completely different things. A human buying Ai services & an autonomous Ai agent executing economic actions on its own. “Owning your account personally has zero impact on transaction fees” For a human, that's true. For an Ai agent, it isn't. Banks Stripe, Visa, Chase, etc require a legal human identity (KYC/SSN/EIN) to open a bank account. A piece of software code cant walk into a bank, sign a signature card & open a checking account. B/c Ai agents lack legal personhood, they can’t personally own a traditional bank act. Crypto allows software to hold an act via code/smart contracts w/out needing a human intermediary. “I use my credit card to pay for OpenAI, which is billed by the hundredth of a cent” You’re paying a single monthly bill. OpenAi tracks your usage by the micro cent on *their* servers, batches it & charges your Visa once** **a month** **for the total. Now imagine your Ai agent needs to autonomously hire another Ai agent on the internet to do a 5 second task for $0.0001 & it needs to do this 10,000 times a day with 10,000 different software vendors. Visa/Mastercard processing fees have a flat minimum cost (usually $0.30 + 3% per swipe). Running 10,000 actual individual credit card transactions for fractions of a penny would cost you thousands of dollars in flat fees. That is why Ai agents rely on crypto/Web3. It allows for true instant micro fractional payments between machines. .

Tough_Currency1947

I work in fintech, I am doing skunkworks infra for a tokenization project (cloud infra, not code), no one in my companies leadership team has been able to answer "Person A sends his token to Person B, how does person B cash out a token which was solder under Person A's KYC when tokens have no identity tied to them?"

charitablechair

do you think that being cynical is all it takes to have any basis in reality? First of all Coinbase's existing KYC rules are already excessive to the point of being invasive. Second of all you clearly have not read the bill or seriously engaged with any of this stuff and are just spouting based on vibes.

entered_bubble_50

They only pretend to want those things. Stability means a lack of volatility. Volatility is one of only two reasons anyone buys this stuff (gambling). If it's not volatile, you can't bet on it. Genuine legitimacy would require genuine regulatory control. That would require KYC / AML controls. Since money laundering is the only use case apart from gambling, they would hate that too. The only thing they genuinely want is clarity - they want it to be clear that they are above the law, and can't be held accountable for the crimes they enable.

NeonMaxi

You’re right about the criticisms of the current iteration of tokenized stocks. But that is not necessarily the form these tokenized assets take in the future. Ultimately holding digital “real world assets” will always be a form of derivative ownership structure. The financial institutions that operate in legal jurisdiction need to adhere to those laws. For that reason institution money can never be contributed at scale to a liquidity pool protocol with anonymous counterpart buyers. USA based financial institutions need to KYC their clients and so can not just participate in DeFi in its current iteration either (at scale). As the legal frameworks around the digital infrastructure improves, the ability to write more meaningful retail ownership into digital token assets will also improve. You’re looking at the picture today and assuming that is how it will look in a year or several years from now still. This space has evolved so fast I can do things in defi today that were not possible 5 years ago. Why do you assume that will stop here?

funkinaround

The token allows you to take custody. You are right that currently the assets backing tokens are generally still traditional ETFs or traditional shares, but there is nothing stopping issuers from issuing tokens directly. This is the "future" part. Issuers will issue tokens with the same rights as shares or bonds that you can actually take custody of or move to a brokerage / exchange to trade them. >who approves the wallets? they do. "They" being the issuer-specific wallet approver. There won't need to be a centralized party that makes these approval determinations. Each issuer can follow their own KYC and AML compliance process and manage their own wallet approvals so that you're not cut out of the whole system just because one party doesn't like you. >idk maybe i'm being paranoid I don't think your paranoia is misplaced. There is an unfortunate trend recently with tokenized offerings trying to offer fewer rights than traditional securities. Many of them either don't want to publish audited financial statements or don't want to let token holders vote on board members. This is a step backward that hopefully investor interest can fix.

mattmentecky

>They're doing it because every time a European buys a coffee, 2.5% of that transaction takes a vacation to San Francisco. This is simply 100% factually not true. Fees are already capped at 0.3% for credit cards in the EU: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/fees-for-card-based-payments.html So Visa and Mastercard has already absorbed (and done so for a decade) a EU market that doesn't net them those big transaction fees. Second, there is simply no way that any digital Euro will not have caps. If there werent, commercial banks in the EU would suffer a lot more than CC companies. It also ignores that V/MA POS infrastructure will simply not go away for the sole purpose of foreigners and hospitality travel, unless the EU is going to offer free transactions and credit extensions for payment beyond its borders. In essence your thesis is: V/MA will cease to exist because the government will handle credit extension, dispute resolution, fraud, KYC/AML and for unlimited funds, all for the sweet payoff of saving citizens 0.3%.

-Authorised-

They are the only company whose sole business is what they do, others have it partially merged into another businesses etc and dont fully do what they do They are known By every oil co for KYC. They have barely diluted at all, excluding the RTO, which was march 2025, all rtos are messy though and this is well behind the company though now they have a clean listing. The CEO in interviews on heidmars channel the only downside is a global recession https://youtu.be/kETIpjOajPU?si=1qHuqwcf7QriOetB

Significant_Debt8289

1099 gets sent to the IRS at least in the US. Required by the brokerage in most countries to declare losses or gains to their respective tax collector on behalf of the customer. Good old KYC

2020isgreat

153,000,000 American driver licenses leaked in KYC hack This is 63% of all American driver licenses In US driver licenses function as valid government-issues photo IDs very cool would do again

Benegut

What exactly did IBKR require from you for the KYC process?

HonestSurprise428

I'm not talking about an ID check in a store. We all upload our identification to websites countless numbers of times. For me, the examples I can think of is KYC with banks/exchanges/etc, utility providers and employers. I work in Cyber Security, there are numerous technological solutions where a third party (in this case Meta) verifies external information through cryptographically secured information and never sees the actual underlying information (someones identification). This is not a difficult techonology solution and the idea of tech companies storing our identification information is absolustely not what I want and its not a hard problem to solve as outlined above. Your identification is stored somewhere already digitally by the government. We can utilize that digitization to solve pressing issues like this as needed. I would love a free internet but the harm that social media is doing is catastrophic and that isn't hyperbole. My last comment wasn't meant to be taken as I haven't thought about ideas, I have, I don't see a fesaible alternative. Relying on parenting or providing controls to parents to solve is not realistic and discriminates against those that don't have parents or have absent parents.

nomemory

You can buy things without KYC in your language. You can use 0 day options, sell a put at a price you want to buy. If it hits, you get allocated (they will let you do that), if not you get the premium and you try next day. The only problem is that: - You need to pass their options test so they allow you option trading on your account. - One options contract has 100 units. So for example if you want to buy TLT at 81, you need to have 8100$ prepared for when the contract is exercised.

ArmAffectionate5487

I'm using IBKR, Degiro and Trade Republic. Last year I moved country, within Europe. I had 0 issue with all of them, although the IBKR process verification was "stricter". Personally I prefer IBKR because, even if their KYC are stricter, they offer way more products and to me are more transparent with the fees. One thing I really don't like about IBKR is that for filling my taxes, their reports are not the bests. Degiro and Trade Republic are better suited, at least for my current country, Italy

cutebunnies007

That may be true regarding KYC, but I’ve tried opening accounts with some of the other brokers I mentioned and I don’t recall being asked for my net worth or liquid net worth. I’m wondering whether the level of information IBKR asks for is actually standard across all brokers.

C-ZP0

A few courts ruled it was unconstitutional. The 11th Circuit overruled them. Regardless, banks already are required by law to have KYC and anti-money laundering and SAR reports sent to the gov. This was unenforceable, millions of LLC and corps didn’t even know it was required.

SpaceNinjaDino

Now get rid of the KYC crypto rules! /s

Sirauto420

I may have also listened to this podcast! Did they then talk about if they really wanted to fight model distillation they could implement KYC? However they then argued Anthropic doesn’t want to do this at the cost of growth!

userhwon

I don't think KYC would fix it here. You have to be able to chase down the middlemen and make them pay when it all turns out to be a huge scam and they try to run off with everyone's money.

vandalizethethief

It’s really the KYC (know your customer) that’s stopping them. You connect via a defi wallet or app like MetaMask & they only region block at a countries request. Also, that kind of leverage is fine if you have a tight stop loss and looking for a fast trade. You might get stopped out but if I was using 30x leverage you keep it at 3% and take profit at 10%+ or throw on a trailing stop loss once it passes 10%. These are AI trades not humans. Lots of small losses and boom one big win. Not much different than forex or regular futures. Options are MUCH worse.

vandalizethethief

They are losing business to Hyperliquid among other exchanges. Basically, it’s a 24/7 centralized exchange with defi connection and no KYC. It got popular and extremely liquid which drew in institutional investors. If you trade crude oil futures and don’t use Hyperliquid or a competitor you lose money bc they close those futures at 3 pm EST on Friday and don’t open again until Sunday night when they open at the latest crude oil perp price. NASDAQ doesn’t want all these perps stealing their business which is more expensive fees. XYZ 100 (basically the S&P 100) did $10 billion in volume in the last 30 days. It’s a lot cheaper also and you can choose your leverage up to 30x. It sounds insane but you always have a stop loss & take profit with these & the rule of thumb is the profit should be 2x the stop loss. I get stopped out all the time on 3% drawdowns but when it moves my way I make 25-50% very quickly on 3x-10x leverage. All depends on the product I’m trading. Also, most of the players are using AI to trade & tracking successful wallets trades is a great way to make money. If it was available in the US (cough VPN with split tunneling & kill switch) and was available on MetaMask & Phantom apps in the US then it will slowly take over a lot of trading.

potatogun

While I know it doesn't cover all TD products, just buy your t-bills at Fidelity, which of course also does it's KYC/AML process, but I get the distaste for ID.me.

TheoryInttro

Money laundering for the Russian mob is very profitable until suddenly KYC rules tightened and audits came down.

vandalizethethief

I bet you can on Hyperliquid, not legally of course. A synthetic perp position on a very liquid exchange with no KYC. Spread it across a few wallets and nobody would know.

oldnortherner

There are plenty exchanges without KYC. You're only referring to those operating under Western regulations. They don't even need an exchange to begin with either.

GachaponPon

I thought cash has to be laundered through multiple bank transactions whereas crypto just needs one dodgy exchange without KYC, to convert into cash.

arkansaslax

All exchanges most certainly do not adhere to KYC laws.

Double_Suggestion385

Until they hit an exchange, all exchanges have KYC laws.

PalantirImperator

Chinese and Open Source models are producing those capabilities by cribbing off of the frontier models so they can skip most of the training costs. The irony, of course, is that this has put Anthropic in the incredible position of arguing that (1) they should be able to use the combined output of all human civilization to train their models, and (2) the Chinese/Open Source guys shouldn't be able to use the output of Claude to train their models. If Claude/OpenAI had decent KYC they could kill that overnight, but they don't want to because it would dent their growth metrics and they need to keep showing meteoric growth for their next ever-larger capital raise.

Cool_Cartographer_39

So much for KYC

Waste-Milk2716

VPN bro. Not having KYC is awesome

george_alto

I do not see any of these frontier model providers acquiring a KYC company. First, they could probably build it themselves rather easily especially using AI. But second, that will not solve the problem. The output-farming problem, if it really is a problem, can be controlled/constrained like some have already said with rate limits, or other similar things. But you have to ask, is it really a problem? What is the difference from these models using data owned by others, like media companies, to train their frontier models. Isn't that the same thing? Other companies, open source models, use outputs of frontier models to train their open source models. Frontier models used other companies data to train their models. It's pretty much the same thing. They need to have superior models to differentiate themselves and keep staying ahead of the pack.

steady_compounder

I could see partnerships before acquisitions. KYC helps with abuse control and enterprise trust, but it does not fully solve output-farming because one verified identity can still generate a huge amount of data through automation. Feels more likely that the economic moat ends up being rate limits, enterprise distribution, and private deployment options rather than just buying an identity vendor.