AMT

jeff_varszegi

It doesn't tend to really work that way, or when it does it's a happy coincidence. This dividend growth does not actually track the share price in any meaningful way. The main ways of dealing with this are to pick securities based on historical dividend growth, and then track that moving forward, and to grow a position with DRIP. It's actually not uncommon to have stocks with strong share-price growth that outstrips the dividend. MSFT and NVDA would be two good examples of this; no one would be upset at the recent share-price growth, of course. AMT is another in the REIT space; is not great for dividend accumulation due to the small yield which has resulted, but it's not bad to hold for growth. Then you have the other end of the spectrum with companies like ARCC, with much higher stable yields and yet little share-price growth over time.

hhtoavon

Then factor in state tax and potential AMT.

Darth_Dire

Closer to ~35% away from halving (the AMT necessary from here to there divided by now).

maxcoiner

You don't have to file a 1040NR to show low income. Just file your basic return as usual and have less or equal income than the AMT. These days that's around $50k. For instance, if you live strictly on your bitcoin savings and don't make any income at all, then cash out $50k or less this year, as capital gains tax, and next year's tax return will owe the fedcoats $0. You'd technically be below the poverty line despite earning $50k and not working for it.

throwaway55667701

You've just identified the difference between "rich" and "wealthy." Rich people pay a ton of taxes (often because they are high-earners with most of their earnings coming from W-2/K-1.) Wealthy people pay little in taxes because they borrow against appreciated assets and the IRS views a package of assets with offsetting liabilities (i.e., a bunch of cash received as debt collateralized against assets) as net-net valued at zero. And poor people pay almost nothing in taxes because they don't make shit and what they do make is often offset by things like AMT. These are the true markers between poor, middle class, and wealthy: no taxes, high taxes, low taxes.

stho3

AMT (cell towers), EQR (luxury residential) and DLR (data centers).

InvestorCoast

This is likely partially due to their young tech savvy population (Nigeria is the biggest economy in Africa... average age of population... 18 years old). Another beneficiary- or rather huge opportunity is $IHS (IHS Towers)... the largest cell tower company in Africa & 3rd largest international Tower Co, by tower count (40,000).... behind AMT & CCI. IHS went public the end of last year- and still under the radar- but it is likely to have a JMIA (2020) style run soon (currently $6 ... consensus PT is $18 ... and most recent PT is Cowens recent raise to $27). Also has a P/s of 1.2 and P/B of 1.1 (and recent Barrons article puts its Institutional & Insider ownership total at 95%).

cake97

Does 20% seem extreme? I wish he had thrown out something higher to set the bar. This feels more like an AMT equivalent that includes unrealized gains that we all know serve as basis for loans and other investments

digbybare

AMT was created because the ultra rich at the time weren’t “paying their fair share”. It was created to target only the 155 highest income households. It now applies to over 5 million households annually. Once the government enacts a new tax, it only ever expands.

xXxPLUMPTATERSxXx

We already have the AMT. Biden is blowing smoke up your asses.

SilencelsAcceptance

What about AMT? It’s been a long while since I wrapped my head around this topic, but it must apply here too, right? If so, then there are cases where unrealized gains could impact your current tax burden??

BobRae1948

AMT is up 6%, CCI is up 4.5% in the last five days since he said he had REIT puts. These are the two largest REITs in the world. He's not making shit on his puts. Where do you get you information from? You know even less jack shit than him it sounds like.

fubolibs

He said income 40k or less and income is typically defined as wages. Capital gains is calculated in a different method. He didn’t specify how much cap gain he is expecting to get. I am pointing out that’s not the case as there are rules like AMT.

fubolibs

Lol. If you think ur gross income is less than 40k and you can have 200k of long term cap gain tax free, feel free to try lmao. Loads of dumbos get nailed on AMT every year.

fubolibs

Btw it would be rare if your 401k distribution plus ur social security plus ur short term capital gain which is income doesn’t exceed 40k. But if it is good for you. If ur long term cap gains exceeds alternative minimum tax you will have to go through that process. Lots of folks get audited for missing AMT.

BTCMachineElf

Of COURSE Elon pays taxes. Elon cashes out far, far more than $40k/year. Why do you keep bringing up Elon? I DID look up alternative minimum tax. Ok. NOW I looked up "Alternative Minimum Tax Capital Gains" and found this: >If you have qualified dividends and long-term capital gains, they are taxed at federal rates no higher than 20% for purposes of both the ordinary income tax and the AMT. However, the extra income could reduce or even eliminate the amount of income you can exempt from the AMT. For tax year 2021, the AMT exemption amounts are: > > $114,600 for married couples filing jointly > > $73,600 for single and head of household filers > > $57,300 for married couples filing separately https://www.fidelity.com/tax-information/tax-topics/alternative-minimum-tax Again, $73,000 exemption. EVERY source I find contradicts what you're saying. You are dead wrong and need to go do some research.

sowtime444

I find it funny that everyone in the Interwebs is outraged over this as if taxes on unrealized gains is a new thing that hasn't been going on for decades. The Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) started out as a way to catch CEOs and other execs of publicly traded companies to pay more income tax. For those that gave themselves a relatively low pay package but paid themselves a lot in company stock shares, the AMT makes you pay the unrealized gains of those shares at the time of exercise (purchase), not sale. It backfired (or worked as intended, if you have a dim view of Congress) in 2000 during the dot com crash when even employees of dot-com companies that weren't making much money suddenly owed six-figure tax bills when they could barely pay their expensive rent in Boston and San Fran. But they could just sell their stocks right? Wrong. The stocks were now worthless after the crash, but they had exercised during the peak. There were some bills in Congress to fix it, but the democrats blocked them. Some dot-commers killed themselves over it.

chillinewman

The current AMT is republican by design to hit the middle class. Wait when they begin blaming democrats. Is part of giveaway to billonaires. Data on the AMT and upper middle class? Previously before the Trump tax cut. Like I said billonaires paid to have numerous ways to evade taxes, the AMT was the only one they couldn't get rid until Trum came along. In the Trump Tax returns he wouldn't have paid almost nothing if it wasn't because of the AMT. Is not net zero effect.

chillinewman

The republican way. More giveaway to billionaires. The AMT imperfect but working if you see some of Trump tax returns, some years almost all his taxes was the AMT. He weaken that with the Trump tax.

Yourenotthe1

You can get AMT tax credits in later years when you file if you “shouldn’t” actually be paying it.

yanbu

Even more applicable than income taxes in general is the Alternative Minimum Tax. It was an attempt to do exactly what this wealth tax does: effectively tax the super wealthy who were avoiding income taxes. It was almost completely ineffective at its stated goal, but due to inflation and the fact that it’s a way to raise taxes without having to vote in anything, it boned over 5 Million households out of a whole bunch of more money in 2017 until it was reeled in by the tax cuts and jobs act. However, the TCJA sunsets in 2025, and then the AMT will be fucking over 7 million households. That’s households, NOT people. That’s how this always works: they say “we’re only going to tax the rich” then wait a decade or two until inflation brings the income levels down and that “rich” tax now rapes the middle class, or what’s left of it.

SpentHis_MilfMoney

The AMT was started over 5 decades ago, to catch a small number of people. It is still here today. From the Tax Foundation website: "Congress enacted the AMT in 1969 following testimony by the Secretary of the Treasury that 155 people with adjusted gross income above $200,000 had paid zero federal income tax on their 1967 tax returns." Yes. 155 people. Couldn't they just audit them and chase them down and shake them until the right amount of coins feel out their pockets? Gov'ts tend to never just stay on the neck of one group--everyone eventually feels their boot of greed. That is the concern for most, excluding the temporarily penurious millionaires. They can stop insider trading for Congress, specifically set up a rule to target the way Bezos et al borrow against their holdings yet never have an income to claim, stuff of that nature. They can put a halt to the flood of lobbyist money by taxing outflows and inflows. It is unfortunate that it seems regular wage ppl are said to be protecting the millionaires by speaking on this proposal but the tax authorities have proved we have to be wary. They have been letting Corps do the various tax ducking maneuvers such as the Irish double sandwich. Where were they then? Why are they going *brrrr* at the printing press and an oversized chunk went to banks? As in trillions since '08. Of course tax reform needs to occur. But will they use the $$$ they suck up to actually benefit society and fix up the raggedy infrastructure or will they just have their homies more money and then say , "oppsie, we iz so sorry, we needz moar? My Grandpa says often, it is not that you have an income problem. It that you have a budgeting problem. They do. They take on over 4T in tax revenue, last I read. I know America is an expensive place to run but golly gee, Batman. At what point will it ever be enough? They can take every dime we all have (rich, middle, low wage) it seems and then turn their pockets out like the Monopoly Money Man, as soon as the next year. My thoughts. You probably and should vary.

porcupineairlines

so ask the democrats why they decided to not renew the AMT

alpinejack77

You understand how the AMT worked ? There is a temporary patch that when it expires will capture even more of the not so rich. This will be the same. Don’t be naïve

luigirensselaer

If you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you. Just like when they brought in the AMT. it was supposed to only hit 2000 people. BS, they are all crooks

RustyGirder

>Point is that once something is introduced the government has a track record of asking for more. Right. Like the marginal tax rate, which used to be 90% is now...wait how much is it now? >Also did you have a comment on AMT? Not really. What are you getting at?

Teabagger_Vance

Irrelevant. Point is that once something is introduced the government has a track record of asking for more. It’s a legitimate concern and not something to casually dismiss. Also did you have a comment on AMT?

Lone_piper_winning

That’s what happened with AMT 50 years ago , now it snares millions of tax payers

SeveralHelicopter417

Thank you, I tried explaining this in another post. I think of this is a wealth AMT (alternative minimum tax). A minimum contribution to taxes regardless of if you had taxable events by selling equities. Ideally, It only applies if you either haven’t paid enough tax already. It should also be small enough that it doesn’t really impact your equity holding in the large scheme of things.

Teabagger_Vance

Look at what income tax rates were when they were first introduced and what they are now. Also look at AMT. millions of middle class people pay that despite it being advertised as a tax only the rich would pay.

UnsungFerro

Isn’t this what the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) is? It effectively taxes unrealized gains.

Gwsb1

The law is to be called Billionaires Tax . It will start with taxing the super rich. Years go by and they reduce the threshold increase the rate. And we are all fucked. It's like what they did with the AMT.

Algonut

So because AMT was expanded from 2000 till now, no new taxes EVER? AMT bad= billionaire tax bad? So got any proposals for the budget or just let the whole economy collapse at some point without taxing billionaires. Your arguing to not tax the 700 richest people and calling me a bootlicker while cock jawing anti tax talking points like a hoover pilled fuck stick. Ok.

Lone_piper_winning

That’s what they said about AMT , how many is it now?! Property taxes are state level , not the goddamn IRS. Google AMT if you need to , MF fed bootlicker

SeveralHelicopter417

As I understand it, this is a tax on the ultra wealthy right? While I am not a proponent of taxing unrealized gains, I can understand something like a “alternative minimum tax (AMT) ” of sorts for the ultra wealthy, which is what this effectively seems like.

ensignlee

Don't feel so bad. During the runup to $20k, I thought I was *so smart* with my tax optimization. And then I realized it meant fuck all because I had to pay AMT anyway. So the diff between what you paid in short term gains and what you could have done with long term (but had to pay AMT on) is prob smaller than you think.