MSTR

devCheckingIn

He was probably referring to Jim Chanos closing his short position on MSTR.

DruPeacock23

54% of the stocks are owned by institutions. If you have an ETF you may not even know or care you have MSTR as part of your portfolio.

Savik519

I feel like 2021 started the financialization of BTC with MSTR getting serious about being a treasury company. ETF push started around then too, even though the approval came much later the narrative was already strong.

terp_studios

This article reads like someone who is just butt-hurt they missed out on the initial gains of MSTR and is mad they got banned on their subreddit when they started posting “Ponzi scheme” with nothing to back it up. The entire article doesn’t even mention how Strategy has acquired their BTC and fails to mention there is no Bitcoin liquidation price for them. It tries to say their stock is under $10 when it’s currently at $241. The entire thing is just trying to push fear on people in hopes it’ll manifest reality and make them right.

Savik519

This is really when the financialization of BTC started. Traded like a risk asset, started pushing for ETFs, MSTR started the treasury model, etc. 

ItWillPrint

Sure. I’m referring to STRC/STRD/STRF/STRK. MSTR doesn’t do a dividend. Which one do you think holds more weight? Bitcoin or the faith and trust of the US Government 🤓 see where this is in 5 years

Responsible_Key_4497

If you listen carefully to all of his interviews and podcasts, he always say: “Buy Bitcoin”. He never says “Buy MSTR”

alyjaf666

Good golly and MSTR continues to dip like a biscuit in hot tea.

ItWillPrint

No my point is that neither of them are a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme is trading of money from new to old investors with their being a promise of big returns but pay attention here THERE IS NO ASSET. That’s the key difference when people try to call anything a Ponzi scheme. MSTR owns Bitcoin, now if it said it was one day going to buy some Bitcoin and needed more investors but never did buy the Bitcoin that would be the example of a Ponzi scheme. People don’t understand something so they just go “oh it must be illegal” or “a fraud”

buffalogoldonly

He has to pump MSTR bags or else.

Preme2

Desperation. If it doesn’t pump next week, it’s over. MSTR at significant level, Bitcoin at a significant level. The only good news to come next week is the end of the government shutdown, otherwise crypto winter for a year.

ES1123

I would but I lost too much money holding MSTR this summer/fall. Seriously.

No-Cucumber-5663

James Chanos stop shorting MSTR which makes this message approved 👌

WSSquab

Is he referring to BTC or MSTR?

foreverfadeddd

$MSTR

ItWillPrint

Do people here not realize that US Treasury Bonds are paid out through selling new bonds to new investors… but no one bats an eye at that. And that is backed by money printing and the faith of the US Government 🤓 and MSTR is backed by Bitcoin. You make your own assessments

Nzain1

BTC can go to 20k before that happens to MSTR. He’s selling bonds that are easy to pay off and better than treasury bonds. Treasury bonds are terrible so he capitalized on that. People are told to buy bonds for guaranteed returns by traditional investing. The man’s a genius, I just wish the stock didn’t perform so badly. Once he reaches a trillion he will start putting the capital to work and then it will launch the share price.

BuddahFi

This is nothing, just look at MSTR (which is my main position, I'm all in)

richardbaxter

I'm waiting for MSTR to collapse

FlagFootballSaint

Yeah that‘s pretty obvious, don‘t know why people think that Hence I am so irritated why people invest in MSTR instead of BTC itself? Just trying to find out what I am missing?

Full-Atmosphere-4818

In 10 years he will br right. But MSTR may not exist before he is right.

Full-Atmosphere-4818

He has set up the loans in such a way they cannot liquidate MSTR but they can force him to sell his coins. Imagine having to offload 641k of Bitcoin onto the market and what it would do to the price. Sheesh!

Rainyfriedtofu

He has to keep pushing it because MSTR is literally paying hundred millions just to be able to continue holding bitcoin. IF bitcoin doesn't continue to go up, the lenders are going to come knocking and they will kick the door down. If they have to dump bitcoin to cover their notes, they basically enter bankruptcy.

SignificanceThis1265

shorting MSTR too.

justjokiing

loving STRC & STRD rn. MSTR is on sale too

omg_its_dan

MSTR has twice the volatility of Bitcoin and requires an even longer time horizon than btc. MSTR is still up massively on a 4-5 year timeframe. If you believe in Bitcoin is pretty silly to claim strategy is a failed project when they hold 650k btc with minimal leverage. The short term stock price is irrelevant. To your original question, the whole purpose of DCA is to not try to time the market. Your question contracts itself.

Personal-Ebb-4717

doesn't matter because shares price is gonna get destroyed before any liquidation if BC drop even below 50k. Ain't no one will buy prefer if he suspense dividend. Can't raise much capital if stock is in the single digit. You also forgot about operating cost, employees still need to get paid, rent is still due. People that bought MSTR $450+ ain't happy now.

_SlipperySalmon_

as annoyed as I am with my MSTR investment, they aren't gonna sell, and aren't at any risk of needing to sell..... not financial advice but if MNAV approaches 1 it would be worth considering getting some ....

Prudent_Sherbet_1065

Try holding MSTR as well lol

devCheckingIn

MSTR could be sub-$200 soon. Lost half of its value in less than a year.

Zigxy

MSTR getting liquidated would be insane. I’m thinking like 95% drop

conv3rsion

If bitcoin only goes up 5% per year then there is no cryptocurrency, let alone MSTR. 

meshreplacer

How leveraged was MSTR at that point and what was its average cost of purchase for Bitcoin? Now they have to pay almost 700m a year to hold this position due to the amount of borrowing used to keep buying more.

IRunSlowButFar

I've always wondered if this was a plan to get "too big to fail" and require a govt bailout or seizure for national stockpile?  MS has been so irresponsible and reckless + his persona of showmanship seems contrived.  Is there any other way to view this? Either way, research papers will be written on MSTR for a long time. 

Upset_Dealer5664

And he’s made enormous strides in his wealth since despite all the negativity around BTC and MSTR today.

Ozyybabychild

But when MSTR starting out with Nav almost at 2. You’re paying almost 2 times their btc holdings. That’s a lot of gains you needing to catch up just to be at par sorta say

Due_Conflict6428

Institutions can't afford to sell too much in my opinion when companies like MSTR buying huge amounts and whales accumulating. They need them for their ETFs. Limited supply that's only going to get smaller. Sticking to my 5-10 year plan and focusing on stacking and accumulating, guess I'll see if that pays off huge or not.

FlagFootballSaint

If I was about to invest 100,000: Anyone pls explain to me why I should invest in MSTR instead of BTC (Seriously asking!)

c0mbucha

> There's a reason why MSTR isn't accumulating thousands of coins at 102k. They literally can't. their bitcoin are ~ $70bn and their debt is $8bn. they could probably buy a lot more..

Full_Muffin7930

You're assuming bitcoin price is happening in a good faith free market. Institutions have not stopped buying bitcoin and they aren't selling. I would guess the only reason they've slowed down recently is because there's hardly any left to buy OTC at these prices. You're watching the retail spot price get whipsawed in a way that has nothing to do with fundamentals. What was the big news yesterday that brought bitcoin down under 100k?  There's a reason why MSTR isn't accumulating thousands of coins at 102k. They literally can't. 

bbatardo

I won't pretend I am an expert, but the stock price since July tells me things aren't good. During that time it has never reclaimed the high in July even with BTC hitting a new ATH in Oct. Maybe Strategy itself will be successful, but MSTR stock is currently just a bank account for Saylor and not a good investment.

Wheaties4brkfst

Yeah, and what’s funny is that’s *exactly the trade MSTR was doing*.

Administrative_Shake

Sigh, Saylor fell for the worst of the 3 L's (liquor, ladies, and leverage). Have a feeling MSTR selling BTC will be the bear market trigger this cycle.

robis87

no better indicator of where this is going than the cratering MSTR price

bbatardo

I can't say for certain, but my theory is he was worried the price would go higher/faster than it did, so wanted to accumulate faster. Maybe he bought into the Government BTC reserve ruse lol. ATM did hurt, but if you look at the chart.. mid July MSTR hit around 450. By this time a majority of ATM was done, so it wasn't just that which caused the dip. When they did they announce STRC? End of July.

Hfksnfgitndskfjridnf

Dilution was the best thing Saylor did. When someone is paying you 3$ for something worth 1$, you sell it to them as often and as quickly as you can. MSTR is worth at least 100$ more per share now than it would have been if they didn’t massively dilute. The problem always was that the stock was massively overvalued to start. All Saylor did was lock in some gains for the existing shareholders by making new shareholders massive bag holders.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Michael Saylor's MSTR stock, representing the largest digital asset treasury company, has plunged by over 45% from its year-high, signaling a potential burst in the Digital Asset Treasury (DAT) bubble. The stock's valuation metrics, including market net asset value (mNAV) and enterprise value-based NAV, have significantly declined, reflecting broader struggles in the industry. Technical analysis suggests further downside for MSTR stock, with indicators pointing to continued weakening and a potential drop to $200. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Schvarg

Sold 1/3 of my ETF holdings in my PCRA account around 118k, also sold my MSTR at 280 with a cost basis of 16. Every time people think it's gonna be a "super cycle" or "extended bull market" and it never happens. 4 year cycle still stands, see you at the bottom to refill my bags.

_BannedAcctSpeedrun_

People been saying “4 year cycle” but when it didn’t peak as crazy like they wanted, they say we’re still in the bull cycle and everyone is dumb for cashing out right now. At the same time I don’t think we’ll dump that hard. Probably just enough to screw MSTR stock which the same institutions that hold btc also have shorts against Saylor’s company.

MrPicklePop

The global debt fundamentals that push companies like MSTR to issue debt to push the price of BTC up. Those fundamentals?

financeguruIB

If he sells i think MSTR will also plummet. I don’t think he wants that

Rainyfriedtofu

Or maybe it is because of this. [https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2024/12/16/microstrategy-convertible-debt-scheme](https://www.advisorperspectives.com/articles/2024/12/16/microstrategy-convertible-debt-scheme) This is the same reason why UNH is still holding its price. UNH has bought over $16 billion in stock buy back since Q1. MSTR is trying to calm nerve, but this is hard for people who bought in at higher price due to hype and now they are in a panic--especially those that got layoff.

Editor-Forward

Just remember to go 100% into MSTR in that 401K

ItIsRaf

Bye bye MSTR if that happens

devCheckingIn

True, but ironically because BTC shits the bed every 5 minutes. It's why MSTR got nuked this year also.

L00PYLL0YD

Meh, who cares, buy more. I am -£1930 on MSTR strock.

harvested

Those TCOs were scams anyway with the exception of MSTR and maybe Metaplanet. MSTR has already been tested in a bear, not worried about them.

AnyPortInAHurricane

The good news is !!! Many of you slept well, even as your accounts were decimated. You enjoyed one last night of bliss before reality set it $MSTR and $BMNR have been destroyed

Livid-Comedian-8528

Just don't gamble on crypto options like I did Unless its MSTR puts

KenFX4

Sure hope so. Just wanna get back to break even with MSTR and dump it

redstormrock

Solid case! I think there is a chance for a lower price in case of some extreme liquidation. Also, there are few institutions with a strong conviction like MSTR, but I feel it will take one weak hand to start dumping and the rest will follow. I think 60k lowest tho, probably 80k bear market average like you said

yann1i

74k was the Low of this cycle so far from the retest we had but I said 80 because I think it’s an area where institutions can’t afford to go under as it’s a very large liq area for example MSTR DCA is now around 75k I think but 80 as a basis

Aerocryptic

MSTR survived a $15K BTC, it should be fine for a while. DATs that bought alts might not survive a bear market tho

PatMu5tard

We haven’t even hit the MSTR shitting the bed phase yet 🍿

theMonkeyTrap

I am actually liking Saylor's STRF/STRC for parking cash short term. there is minimal default risk because MSTR has very low avg acquisition cost. plus you get \~10% interest. which I feel is safer than S&P atm. not selling my S&P but just dont feel like piling into it.

BankMoist585

Saylor has been an asset to this movement. I bought and sold MSTR. I still have some. The question is do you like money over here or over here.

Frequent_Optimist

MSTR is -\~9% down YTD. An absolute poor investment if starting out at the beginning of the year. I appreciate what Saylor is trying to do, pushing digital credit as the next big thing. However, There will never be a better vehicle than holding your own BTC, if you believe in the asset.

FuckSteveHuffman3

I bought stocks in MSTR but I sold it as I got uncomfortable holding it. Their goal is 1.5x BTC returns, yes, but it is only a goal, and it requires people to keep paying the premium. I also don’t fully trust Saylor. It’s better to just hold your own asset, I think. I sleep much better at night knowing that my bitcoin is safe and always at my disposal. The stocks can drop to zero, but your bitcoin will never drop. 1 BTC is 1 BTC.

CapitalIncome845

Not working anymore. Anything I don't think I'll be spending in the next 5 years is in bitcoin (or MSTR, but most is in BTC)

bieker

Everything you said is correct and reasonable, but it is not the MAXI mindset that OP is asking about. MAXI is about maximizing the holding of actual BTC at the expense of all other investments. MAXI is is about realizing that when the fiat economy collapses and the dollar inflates to billions for a loaf of bread you are not going to be able to get your MSTR converted to anything negotiable.

bieker

Counterpoint, maxi can have a house because the purpose is to live in it. Why buy MSTR? If the purpose is to invest in a growth asset, BTC is the only one that matters.

Uzivert-

Alright, so I’m a Maxi and the sole reason I own MSTR is to have a liquid asset that is heavily tied to the performance of Bitcoin so If I HAVE to or want to sell something, it would be my MSTR shares before my Bitcoin. So MSTR is shorter term versus BTC being longer term but with MSTR performing SIMILARLY.

Forward-Case8934

As a bitcoin maxi, no I wouldn't. Primary. But as a bitcoin maxi, I would create a product like MSTR to support Bitcoin adoption. Secondary.

Nemothafish

Maybe don’t ask for permission to live your life? You don’t need the internet’s validation. Go buy ya some MSTR if it makes you happy. 😃

__Ken_Adams__

Bitcoin maxi here. Saw Michael Saylor speak live at Bitcoin 2025 saying we need to cooperate with and play nice with government & regulations. Fuck Michael Saylor & fuck MSTR.

word-dragon

MSTR buys a ton of bitcoin and uses it to fund their various investment products. You’re really just investing in a guy with a strategy and a lot of bitcoin. Whatever I think of him, I have no idea where he or the company will be in 20-30 years. Maybe that’s a sound investment, but I don’t view it as anything like owning bitcoin. If you need to use an investment product to stay in retirement funds, go with the ETFs. ETF’s at least putatively map your shares to bitcoin. Or invest in MSTR - just don’t imagine it’s investing in bitcoin.

BranJacobs

Pretty sure even Saylor would tell you to buy Bitcoin if you want Bitcoin. Buy MSTR if you want a more volatile security that aims to run the biggest speculative attack in human history.

cormacpara

I am a maxi but bought MSTR via my IRA. I’m not sad

RetiredAvocado

You can buy whatever you want. MSTR is a business intelligence software company. Is that the kind of business you want to invest in? You researched it well? The btc they own is ecombered by a metric ton of debt. Do you want to buy that debt too? Cause you will. And if there is a problem you will never see their btc. The company could go under, sell all of its assets including that btc. The only thing you will get is the amount you can dump the shares for, assuming someone will want to buy them from you at whatever price.

Dmarine999

At first glance, it does seem concerning. However, taking a step back, you should ask yourself what the risks really are? Sure, the big players could sell their holdings. But, dumping would be counterproductive since it would reduce or erase their gains if did so. A slow and steady exit wouldn't cause any major issues. I look at it this way, these big institutional holders (MSTR, etc.) are taking coins out of circulation for a long time. I don't expect they will sell until it would be sustainably profitable to start peeling off small portions of their holdings at a time. One caveat, I have no idea what I'm talking about and cannot predict the future. NFA and DYOR

ChaoticDad21

If you want BTC exposure, buy BTC. Plenty of people hold MSTR, but Saylor holds lots of BTC and is selling MSTR (either his personal holdings or via dilution) to buy BTC. Be like Saylor…buy BTC

Chrysalis1111

If I can buy Bitcoin with my money, I will If I cannot directly buy Bitcoin with my money (let's say 401K rules don't allow me to OR exchanges have run dry as will soon be the case), then I buy MSTR. See, simple.

TheGreatMuffin

> Can a BTC maxi hold MSTR? No, that's forbidden, sorry.

r2d2overbb8

yeah I have, how much bitcoin was purchased at the beginning of the year vs. now? Just looking at MSTR, their bitcoin purchases have gone from: || || |January|446,400|24,707|5.53%| |February|471,107|27,989|5.94%| |March|499,096|29,089|5.83%| |April|528,185|25,370|4.80%| |May|553,555|26,695|4.82%| |June|580,250|17,075|2.94%| |July|597,325|31,466|5.27%| |August|628,791|3,666|0.58%| |September|632,457|7,574|1.20%| |October|640,031|777|0.12%|

r2d2overbb8

yeah I have, how much bitcoin was purchased at the beginning of the year vs. now? Just looking at MSTR, their bitcoin purchases have gone from: || || |January|446,400|24,707|5.53%| |February|471,107|27,989|5.94%| |March|499,096|29,089|5.83%| |April|528,185|25,370|4.80%| |May|553,555|26,695|4.82%| |June|580,250|17,075|2.94%| |July|597,325|31,466|5.27%| |August|628,791|3,666|0.58%| |September|632,457|7,574|1.20%| |October|640,031|777|0.12%|

dataCollector42069

cant belive i paper handed MSTR puts for a 25% gain when it would have been 300% now

devCheckingIn

Yeah people crapping on alt coins (which I get) even though many are simply a leveraged play on BTC. Just like all these pure-Bitcoin treasury companies. It's why the MSTR chart doesn't look much different from BONK.

Friendly-Profit-8590

So either bitcoin gets rolling or MSTR’s stock will tank in a couple months?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin treasury company Strategy (MSTR) reported $2.8 billion in Q3 profits, driven by its continued Bitcoin accumulation strategy despite challenging market conditions. The firm holds over 640,000 BTC, valued at approximately $68 billion, making it the largest corporate holder of Bitcoin. Strategy's stock has risen significantly since its pivot to Bitcoin in 2020, though recent months have seen declines. The company reaffirmed its full-year guidance, projecting net income of $24 billion if Bitcoin reaches $150,000 by year-end. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

ThatChrisGuy7

After hours MSTR shooting up. BTC seems to want to follow

Frequent_Optimist

Polymarket currently assigns Strategy (MSTR) just a 2% chance of beating quarterly earnings.

devCheckingIn

MSTR, COIN and BMNR down just as much as alts lmao.

eupherein

Rise was priced in early 2024, when previous ATH in the 60s was passed and btc floated around 70-80k. Btc was expected to hit 120-180k in 2025, news to absolutely no one with a brain based on network hashrate rate and how it correlates to ATHs and cycle lows each previous halving cycle. When people started calling for BTC to be in the 200s ridiculously, MSTR got over bought well above $400. Fair market is around 1.1-1.3mNAV.

DrestinBlack

Every stock, except MSTR, I own has massively out performed it / including generic index funds. Never marry an asset

Frequent_Optimist

Will be interesting to see if there is any impact whatsoever on short term price action in the event that MSTR misses Q3 exp.

AutoModerator

Post is by: Impossible-Band-2393 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1ok37et/shares_stocks_and_equity_why_the_difference/ Ever get confused by the terms shares, stocks, and equity? You're not alone they’re often used interchangeably, but they actually mean different things. Equity is your ownership stake in a company what you’d have left if all the company’s assets were sold and debts paid. Stock is a general term for that ownership. Shares are the specific units you own like owning 10 shares of Apple means you own a piece of that company. Knowing the difference is important, especially now that stock trading is evolving. Platforms like Bitget are bridging traditional markets with crypto speed and access. I’ve been exploring tokenized stocks, and what really stands out is how its keeps engaging. Right now, their campaign features 200,000 in $MSTR rewards. Whether you’re long or short, every trade counts toward earning more. It’s a smart way to stay active and get rewarded while the lines between TradFi and DeFi keep fading. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Broski777

I use stoplosses on my stocks and MSTR hit it. Still got out with a profit (had since '23) but still sad to see it happen. My BTC has no stoploss though. I plan on holding this for a long long time.

ElRiesgoSiempre_Vive

MSTR could go completely bankrupt and Saylor still has hundreds of millions of dollars. These people aren't suffering, no matter what happens.

Frequent_Optimist

MSTR Q3 2025 earnings call - October 30, 2025 at 5 PM EDT

dataCollector42069

MSTR is easier to short due to the whole company being a shit show