MSTR

Zigxy

Business analytics software. They are a fine, legit company. Not very profitable, but not hemorrhaging money either. But MSTR would be crushed if bitcoin had sustained low prices. Their debt is costing them $4 million a month in interest charges.

gvictor808

It’s just barely a strategy: BUY BTC. LOVE IT! But what’s up with the 2.1B in loans? Is that a concern or reason not to invest in MSTR? Not FUDding here, and MSTR is my primary stock holding. Am I missing something?

yadius

I'm stacking $MSTR the way other people stack stats. The way I see it, I'm buying a technology company trading at 4X revenue, that throws in one free BTC for every 87 shares I buy. It's also used by the hedge funds to short BTC. So when BTC takes off again, there's a chance to be part of a $GME style short squeeze.

Muppet1616

I'm saying that stating that MSTR being the first company to adopt bitcoin as standard is just complete and utter bollocks. And until they actually start doing business in bitcoin it will remain remain bullocks. It's like saying Apple has adopted securities as standard because 75% of their assets are securities. It's completely nonsensical.

whitslack

What does "greed" have to do with anything? I'm a MSTR shareholder; I bought MSTR stock because I want to hold bitcoin in my stock portfolio; I don't want Saylor to sell off any of my bitcoin that his company is holding for me.

Muppet1616

None of the transactions they do running their business are in bitcoin. None of the prices they pay are based on bitcoin, none of the prices they set are set in bitcoin. Even if they did the majority of transactions in bitcoin I would be impressed and whether they pay their taxes in USD or BTC wouldn't be a big deal (although with the wild swings of value in BTC goodluck determining how much taxes you actually owe). But they are doing none of that and they won't be doing that in the coming years. They are simply parking their excess money in an asset class they feel will hold value. And a lot of companies do that. The only difference with MSTR is that they believe bitcoin fills that role.

Zigxy

key difference is MSTR took on huge loans with the intent to buy BTC. This is not a passive. Its a bet from Sayor using his company as collateral.

Muppet1616

>Basically MSTR is the first company to adopt Bitcoin standard. Bullshit. All their investments are Bitcoin. None of the transactions they do running their business are though, they don't pay their employees in bitcoin, they don't accept investors money in bitcoin, they don't pay their rent in bitcoin, they don't pay their taxes in bitcoin, they don't do their accounting in bitcoin etc. etc.

Zigxy

Worst case scenario (BTC continues to fall in price or it stagnates): - Saylor loses the large majority of his fortune as it is almost entirely invested in Bitcoin and MSTR stock - MSTR balance sheet collapses due to the debt they took on to buy Bitcoin. Company goes to bankruptcy reorganization (with layoffs) or they are sold to another corp (with layoffs). Regardless hundreds of people lose their jobs. - MSTR's unsecured loans aren't paid back. A few banks lose a few hundred million bucks. Some random bank exec is forced to fly 1st class instead of by private jet for the annual golf retreat.

diradder

MSTR has been buying regularly over [the last two years](https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/microstrategy-statistics/) (missing few data points in the last couple of months, but they announced purchases to the SEC and on Saylor's twitter), they don't seem to try to time the market. So at this scale that most likely as close to DCA'ing you'll get. I'll agree that their initial buy was more of a lump sum for sure.

KAX1107

He personally owns "only" 17k BTC This 120k BTC is company treasury. Instead of holding dollars or other assets in balance sheet, MSTR is holding it all in BTC. Their strategy is to convert all cash flows to BTC. Basically MSTR is the first company to adopt Bitcoin standard. Which will be the first country to fully adopt Bitcoin standard? I think we could see that before 2025.

jdndndndjxnd

Glad to be a sharehodler, MSTR will be worth shit loads in 5-10yrs

y90210

> However. If you buy Bitcoin and put it away. I can assume that you think it’s going up in value over longer period of the time. MSTR will rise or fail with that value over longer period of the time. So the downside risk is equal IMO. MSTR has higher odds of bankrupcy: If bitcoin goes to zero, so would MSTR, but they're borrowing money to fund their purchases, borrowing against the value of their holdings. And they have costs of offices, staff, power, computers, insurance, etc.

DatBuridansAss

Okay well the poster above made (imo) a false equivalence between MSTR and DeBeers diamond company. DeBeers famously restricts the diamond market in order to keep prices high. Any non-DeBeers diamonds are labeled "blood diamonds" as though DeBeers themselves do not employ brutal methods to protect their turf. Basically the reason the diamond trade is so bloody is because a massive cartel controls it and they are willing to kill. Additionally, it's possible to create synthetic diamonds. Additionally, diamonds are vastly different from one another, in terms of size, clarity, cut etc, making them a terrible analogy to any sort of monetary asset like Bitcoin. Additionally they are not divisible. If you have a million dollar diamond and you cut it in half, you don't get 2 $500,000 diamonds. They are worth much less than that. So that's another reason why diamonds suck at being money. So to compare the above with MSTR buying 130,000btc to store on their balance sheet really just makes no sense. They are not in a position to outlaw non-mstr BTC, because BTC is a perfectly fungible asset, and BTC itself is impossible to counterfeit (ie no synthetic BTC) and it's infinitely divisible. So I don't see any problem at all with large companies like square/MSTR/Tesla buying up Bitcoin. Nor with municipalities, governments, sovereign wealth funds, high net worth individuals, and so on. It's a free, open network, and to equate this (imo) inevitable phenomenon to a cartel controlling the diamond trade is superficial. The only thing they have in common is "stuff that rich people do so it must be evil"

StrivingPlusThriving

Very unlikely MSTR gets liquidated. The loans are very low interest (near 0% is my understanding), low LTV, or convertible notes. Also, he has piles of cash and earnings to service the loans. Also, they have uncollateralized BTC they can easily add as collateral, he has it laying around in cold wallets if any loans are called. These are the least risky loans possible. Anyone thinking about borrowing or leveraging to buy bitcoin would be wise to look into the details of Saylor's debt structure.

PoensieWeit

I m not saying that buying MSTR is better than buying Bitcoin and putting it away yourself . But the question was “why would you buy MSTR”. Those are two valid reasons. You can’t say 100 % that they remain solvent indeed. However. If you buy Bitcoin and put it away. I can assume that you think it’s going up in value over longer period of the time. MSTR will rise or fail with that value over longer period of the time. So the downside risk is equal IMO. While upside potential is leveraged play on Bitcoin.

PoensieWeit

You can buy MSTR stock…

Pinky_DLobster

MSTR holds around ~0.5% of supply. I think you need to calm down a bit 😙

Pinky_DLobster

MSTR has around ~0.5% of total supply, why would you consider that a growth limiter? I don’t really see why this distribution would be a problem.

PoensieWeit

MSTR is a really cheap way to buy Bitcoin at this time …

ApplicationAny1434

You talk about MSTR or Saylor? Saylor has privat over 9000BTC. Company has 129,000btc in custody, he holds no keys.

Ferdo306

MicroStrategy has a $205M term loan and needs to maintain $410M as collateral. $MSTR has 115,109 BTC that it can pledge. If the price of #BTC falls below $3,562 the company could post some other collateral

DoubleFaulty1

TLDR: MicroStrategy (MSTR) on Wednesday morning said it purchased 480 bitcoins for about $10 million – an average price of $20,817 per coin – during the period from May 3 to June 28. The new additions bring company holdings to 129,699 bitcoins (BTC) acquired for $3.98 billion, or an average cost of $30,664 each.

castorfromtheva

Unbelievable. Well done, MSTR.

qustone

MicroStrategy has purchased an additional 480 bitcoins for \~$10.0 million at an average price of \~$20,817 per #bitcoin. As of 6/28/22 u/MicroStrategy holds \~129,699 bitcoins acquired for \~$3.98 billion at an average price of \~$30,664 per bitcoin. $MSTR https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1542117682207678465

BuzzardLightning

I converted an old 401k from a previous employer to a Roth, then bought MSTR. I had to pay tax today to make the conversion, but I will be able to withdraw tax free in retirement, when 1 BTC is north of $1 million. If you hold a current employer’s 401k, then you can probably will be allowed to take up to a $50,000 loan. Use that cash to buy spot BTC and store it on a cold wallet.

zachbitcoin

If you can’t you could try MSTR

gvictor808

Don’t listen to me lol. I am going all in on BTC and just took a $30k personal loan so I can buy MSTR Calls & maybe buy back the BTC I lost to Celsius at the next dip.

gvictor808

Bitcoin is arguably an excellent hedge against recession. Admittedly, it hasn’t worked as an inflation hedge lately, but the mechanics of it doing so are sound. Or buy gold? Or MSTR?

cabinstudio

MSTR? Does any one know how much BTC or USD VALUE microstrategy has?

Big-Yogurtcloset2731

Michael Saylor has always been „all in“ with the things he did in his life. Some went down the drain, in other cases he was right. As for the current situation, he has no choice but being hyper bullish on bitcoin. He went all in again (with MSTR as the vehicle), borrowing roughly 2.5 billion USD to buy bitcoin. Currently his bet is under water and he will struggle to repay/refinance when those credit engagements become due. Unless of course bitcoin goes up again … And still, I like the guy. I just do not believe everything he says …

sexyama

Better sub for this: /r/MSTR

MDot_Cartier

I get that, my point is that MSTR should be telling shareholders what they did instead of letting the world speculate about it. But they don't want to look bad so they're hiding whatever they had to do pay stop the margin. They should be more transparent is all I'm saying

suninabox

>MSTR and Saylor are a long way from getting fucked. They have $5B in collateral No they don't. >Everyone and the media is making a fuss about their $200M margin call. Sounds like a nothing problem when that’s only 5% of the money they have dedicated to Bitcoin. They have more Bitcoin debt than the company is worth, and they can't sell any of that Bitcoin to pay their debts without taking a loss, and they have 40 million dollars of interest payments to make every year for several years, then they have billions of convertible notes maturing. They're down over a billion dollars already. They are fucked.

DontMicrowaveCats

I did actually. https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/segytf/crypto_stock_puts_update/ COIN, MSTR and several others move with crypto volatility.

another1degenerate

Celsius got wrecked from stETH. Blockfi isn’t completely fucked yet. Depends on their $GBTC position. MSTR and Saylor are a long way from getting fucked. They have $5B in collateral. Everyone and the media is making a fuss about their $200M margin call. Sounds like a nothing problem when that’s only 5% of the money they have dedicated to Bitcoin.

CryptoGod666

The fed isn’t pumping liquidity. They just had a .75 bps rate hike. Celsius and blockfi and getting fucked. MSTR and Saylor are fucked. Stop with the hopium. It can easily go back to pre Tether pump levels of $2k btc

gvictor808

Listed my Tesla for sale so I can double down on BTC and MSTR

Heph333

How long before the MSTR stockholders bail?

Keith_Kong

If you aren’t trying to make a trade or time the market you shouldn’t be buying MSTR. You should be buying Bitcoin and storing it properly.

MarcatBeach

ETH is really the story. ETH mining generated investment and that is essentially done. Since the true believers just hold and never take profits the bulls don't have the money. The lack of liquidity really puts no bottom end on how far it can drop. Imagine MSTR trying to sell their position. There still are too many leveraged players that have to be punished before there is a bottom to the market. Wait for an exchange to fail, that is when the bottom is in sight.

XtraHott

Ratios mean dick if that 13% holds 5x as many coins as those 86% are able to buy. MSTR has 129k coins, you know how many buyers you'd need to get that bought.

Western_Boris

I would not put MSTR and Three arrows in the same sentence.

get_MEAN_yall

Many high leveraged hedge funds and some companies are going to be margin called soon. Three Arrows, and MSTR, ETC... so I'd be a bit patient with the buying if I were you

gwcurioustaw

Everybody here thinking Buttcoin dwellers just like to watch the world burn. In reality most are just sick of obnoxious crypto bros constantly trying to scam us in all corners of life and the internet, happy that this will finally quiet them down for a while. Many of us are also heavily invested in shorts and puts on crypto exposed securities. There is a lot of money to be made from the scammers as the scam collapses. While you’re sitting here waiting for Boobfart420ElonMoondick coin to take off, meanwhile puts on COIN, MSTR, SQ, MARA, RIOT have been printing….

gwcurioustaw

Nah, I hold puts on crypto exposed stocks. MSTR, SQ, COIN, RIOT, MARA. Much money to be made from the scammers as the scam collapses.

xes1

Is this guy an idiot, isn’t this company into enterprise software & data analytics. Why is MSTR hoarding up BTC instead of discussing anything worthy about they do, or just ramble about BTC to hedge inflation?

Pluth

If he is lying then the SEC will probably fine MSTR as well. I believe there is a law saying you can't lie to investors about your business.

gwcurioustaw

MSTR, COIN, SQ, RIOT. bear necessities

DefinitionFeeling

MSTR is around the corner getting margin calls and the real dip is about to start. 🤫

brucekeller

definitely glad I divested from MSTR midweek. not so glad that I still went long some other stocks, this new BTC breach will probably bleed over into stocks again. :\\

Monetary-BTC-Nexo

Easy leverage is Microstrategy stock. Factor 1.5 in bitcoin exposure because the company issued long term bonds to buy bitcoin. As a stockholder your maximum loss is the purchase price of MSTR stock.

ghost_in_the_kernel

Because shares of MSTR are less valid as bitcoin exposure than wbtc. What happens if the dollar goes to zero? What if the stock market is disolved? I trust bitcoin to exist more than I trust the stock market to exist. I am seeking a way to increase my exposure to bitcoin without giving up the only thing that has any value at all: The bitcoin I already hold.

cdnkevin

From the link, MSTR Analyst Ratings CONSENSUS Buy Based on 5 analysts offering recommendations for 'MSTR' in the last 3 months. Analyst Firms Making Recommendations BTIG CANACCORD GENUI CITIGROUP JEFFERIES & CO. WILLIAM BLAIR You’re saying that analysts are listing a company as a buy when they aren’t available to service loans due to BTC holdings. Why do you propose they would do that? Not being able to pay bills and mismanaging the company assets would warrant a ‘hold’ or ‘sell’ for the company. You are making a claim that the company will shortly sell BTC tanking it’s price, but the evidence doesn’t support that.

cdnkevin

From the link, MSTR Analyst Ratings CONSENSUS Buy Based on 5 analysts offering recommendations for 'MSTR' in the last 3 months. Analyst Firms Making Recommendations BTIG CANACCORD GENUI CITIGROUP JEFFERIES & CO. WILLIAM BLAIR

Mr_Eckert

Maybe just buy shares of MSTR and let Saylor handle the leveraging?

check026

Christ. So sick of hearing this. The guy has 10x the collateral required to prevent liquidation. The odds of Saylor dying and his replacement deciding to sell all MSTR Bitcoin is higher than them being force-liquidated

whitslack

I'm already in the process of selling one of my cars so I can buy more MSTR.

SellYourSatsToMe

Rumblings of a MSTR $500M BTC buy incoming...👀

being_classy

Seriously though, can you imagine the number of people who have stops set at like 19,999, or 19,900 or something like that just beneath $20K that are thinking "Yeah, if it breaks lower it might have significant downside but I'll be fine", but will get f'ed by massive slippage? Then, 1) 19900 retail liquidation cascade to 17000. 2) 17000 bunch of mid-tier VCs liquidation cascade to 14000. 3) 14000 Celsius liquidation cascade to 11000. 4) 11000 Saylor removed from MSTR, MSTR dumping all coins to 5000. And all that in 1 hourly candle while exchanges are halted and retail can’t buy anything...

perolav1

SO the article who said that MSTR avg buying at 20k was not true?

alexwarzinski

You was the one that you said Bitcoin will not drop under $30k . Just want that MSTR got their margin call. Playing with fire with the house of cards .

Maxx3141

Yeah I got that there must be some reason for this, but that doesn't change the fact I commented. If you are going for somehow crypto related stocks, make sure to diversify as good as you can. People are naming things like MSTR, but that could change at any moment and is completely dependent on one more or less sane person. It would be really sad to invest in crypto stocks which then individually fail and later watch crypto go up again while your investment is lost.

Mark-R-F

Yes I agree, will probably make a few staggered purchases of MSTR in the coming months alongside others.

bsamiam45

MSTR?

Mark-R-F

It's really unlikely this is going to happen, they have plenty of collateral that can be added, their stock price has taken a huge tumble with the recent market conditions both Bitcoin price and general stocks, I think its a good opportunity to buy MSTR stock as its likely to skyrocket next BTC bullrun.

itsnotthatdeepbrah

MSTR have already confirmed that they have the means to avoid liquidation and BTC will need to crash to 3K before it’s even required.

Jeffbak

If Kim K says sell you know MSTR is gettin' that big ol margin call!!!

bittercoin99

He played it pretty smart by dropping 21k as a level that MSTR would potentially face a margin call though. Created such a desire to see that level, and now he gets to buy a big pile more btc at a huge discount.

check026

“MicroStrategy has a $205M term loan and needs to maintain $410M as collateral. $MSTR has 115,109 BTC that it can pledge. If the price of #BTC falls below $3,562 the company could post some other collateral. See slides 11-12 in Q1 2022 presentation. #HODL https://microstrategy.com/en/investor-relations”

MistaMastaLoKey777

I do not either, I only follow this because I hold alot of MSTR, and I know MS has a lot of BTC on the books and it is liquidated/margin called @ $21K.. don't have Twitter either

MistaMastaLoKey777

Well I not referring to any of that... for his company if it drops below $21K he gets margin called for the book on MSTR. If he had someone/entity bail him out and add liquidity to his 100× leveraged BTC position then that's another story.

pawn_guy

The very large majority of that BTC is not being used as collateral for any loans. Look at your own post to see that MSTR has more in current value BTC than its market cap. A margin call on a $250mil loan isn't going to be a problem when they have so much extra collateral.

pawn_guy

I just bought more shares of MSTR yesterday at $145. If BTC drops below $20k I wouldn't be surprised if MSTR buys more. As you said, they have more than enough collateral. MSTR is trading at a larger discount than BTC itself because of the fear of a margin call that doesn't actually matter.

MistaMastaLoKey777

That's when he margin called but does not have to report it until 4th quarter of 22 on the books for MSTR

socalquest

Too much leverage built on leverage in CEFI platforms, like Celsius. Just got to wait it out until all the $hit is out of their asses, i.e. bankruptcy/including MSTR. Stay patient. Trust me, BUY in JULY and AUGUST!!! GLTA!!!

Hodl_the_Aces

12k is in the range of possible bottoms at around 83% the top. This would be the same drop rate as 2017-2018. I think we go lower because the worldwide economy wasn’t in the crapper then. Whales may also try to see if they can wipe out MSTR. If they are successful no way 12k holds.

002timmy

The -$500M was largely due to huge BTC purchases though. Their EBITDA wasn’t terrible (though it wasn’t great) for their revenue levels. I’m not saying MSTR is a strong, must-buy company. I personally wouldn’t invest in them. But I also don’t think they are doomed

snorlaxgangs

MSTR chart looks like shitcoin chart.

Nickeless

Well they're pretty stupid if they lent him money to gamble on BTC at 0% interest to be fair. But $500M of it is still at 6+% which isn't nothing at all. It's about $35M JUST ON INTEREST per year, for a company that makes $100M/year. That's pretty insane. I guess they can pay off the high interest loan in ... 8 years lmao. If they used ALL their profits to aggressively pay it off, and don't even pay down the other $1.7B at all. And MSTR hasn't been growing much the last couple decades, so I guess they can pay it all off by around 2050. Really great news.

psychoticworm

These psychos gonna push btc to 4k just to liquidate MSTR. Some may say its impossible, but thats what I thought about getting to 20k....

DirtyDiamonds

I don’t see that happening. His $4 billion bet on BTC with an avg. price of 30K is extremely doable. He just has to hold. It could get ugly, but it doesn’t actually destroy MSTR unless BTC falls below ~$3,500.

Moscow__Mitch

I'd prefer for him to be sectioned tbh. I feel bad for the MSTR employees who want no part in Saylor's wild ride.

DrKennethNoisewater6

Not quite that simple. Unless I am missing something MSTR has $2.3B in long term debt. Apparently for the majority of it Bitcoin holding are not posted as collateral. But it might as well be. When it comes due, they have no way of paying it back unless Bitcoin is at a certain price. They can in theory take out a new loan, but if their Bitcoin holdings are underwater and the market is the way it is, then it might be a challenge. The real danger is that if their main business starts losing money, which is a distinct possibility with the economic down turn, the interest goes up and Bitcoin prices go down and stay there, all at the same time. They are in trouble certainly waaaay before $3.5K Bitcoin price, even if there is no margin call.

Horror_Aide4999

Exactly. And MSTR businesses still do work and earn revenue so its not like the company is completely reliant on the corn.

Horror_Aide4999

Agree. IMO only reason to buy MSTR would be options. If you think we reverse course, even in a year or two, you could make money on calls. If you think we have more to fall, puts are printing these days. MSTR is still a bit away from its 52 week low so puts look attractive.

002timmy

You know MSTR is a publicly traded company. They disclose all their debt. $500M in revenue is important. Profit is skewed because in 2021 they had $830M in “unusual expense” which was their BTC purchases, which obviously isn’t a real expense. Their 2021 EBITDA was $68M, 2020 was $81M. Their financials are pretty healthy and they won’t be liquidated