MSTR

Mak333

MSTR - If you can get 100 shares you can start selling covered calls with virtually no risk of losing money, and only gaining passively.

Freedom_58

From what I read in your past, you need to learn more about Bitcoin. I don't claim to know everything about Bitcoin but it's a large part of my portfolio. I also have MSTR, IBIT FBTC, and Bitcoin miners. I will sell those before I sell Bitcoin, if ever.

Mak333

My wife and I are doing something similar. We have 3 main investing accounts, which I am controlling. About 30% is her money, and 60% mine. **Account #1:** Bitcoin (20% of overall funds). **Account #2:** MSTR (45% of overall funds). **Account #3:** Aggressive growth in ETFs and individual tech stocks. This is not our overall funds - We have 4X of the aforementioned accounts in two different 401k accounts.

acorcuera

I’m 40% BTC 40% MSTR.

acorcuera

I invest in both BTC and MSTR.

theazureunicorn

MSTR and MSTY Create a self reinforcing perpetual flywheel of digital abundance- all feeding on each other

j592dk_91_c3w-h_d_r

It’s gone up a lot for sure. But still only a market cap of $400M. I bought some this week. I admit I don’t have a good sense of what it should bd priced at, but it is sort of giving early MSTR vibes.

Hochzins

I got about 45% Bitcoin with BTC being 80% of that and MSTR the rest of that portion

ModestGenius66

Yes but if you buy today you run the risk that the operation does not completes as planned. If it completes as planned you are paying a mNAV around 3, MSTR at around 2 seems the better choice.

ModestGenius66

I will look at what their business model is. If it’s very similar, I will buy every month (when I get paid) the one that has a lower mNAV. However, it seems to me that MSTR will have advantages in selling bonds because of their bigger scale.

marcio-a23

100% on MSTR Every normie would say i am crazy but i am happy with results

Aggravating_Apple430

You use MSTY to drip or buy more BTC / MSTR?

Astropin

I'm in my late 50's. I went on a search for a financial advisor and Bitcoin was my litmus test. Result? I'm my financial advisor. My entire Roth is in actual Bitcoin in cold storage (multi-sig). Around half of my SEP IRA is the same...the rest of it is in MSTR and IBIT. I hold zero bonds. My plan is to retire in 2029. No...I will not be cashing out then. I will live off of it or borrow against it.

No-Temperature2328

Kupi MSTR dionicu

ConfuciusYorkZi

Double Bitcoin Maxi here, its all Bitcoin, I used to tried and make a quick buck through altcoins and memecoins, my thought was to profit with alts and rotate in Bitcoin. It was ok but not sustainable. I realized what i really wanted was more income to buy BTC. That's when I discovered, MSTY and MSTR. So yea my other risks are MSTY for income and MSTR for growth. So little people in here understand this "Save in BTC, Invest In MSTR, Earn in MSTY". It's the trifecta and true financial engineering.

harvested

It doesn't include coins in custody by coinbase etc, so MSTR and ETFs. Just exchange balances. The reason quant and other sites are wrong is because it's a lot of work to update addresses. Sani puts in the effort but no one else does, so whenever coins get moved it just looks like exchange balances are going down forever. For example when an exchange moves coins, they don't announce the new addresses, and the reasons for the move, an explain where they went. Someone has to look at the blockchain and determine, alright were these sold, moved, etc. And keep labels of all the addresses. You can see everything on timechainindex I dunno how people keep falling for this nonsense to be honest. X accounts will keep posting these though cause they get engagement . How do I reeeach these kiiiids.

GrayersDad

21 Capital raises funds to buy Bitcoin, reducing the amount of Bitcoin available on the market, which drives the price up. As the price of Bitcoin rises, the share price of MSTR also increases. This allows MSTR to issue ATMs or convertible bonds to raise more capital, which it uses to buy additional Bitcoin—further reducing supply and pushing the price higher. It’s a self-reinforcing cycle, with more companies adding Bitcoin to their balance sheets or new Bitcoin treasury companies emerging.

el_rico_pavo_real

For me, I like to allocate capital to MSTR and now CEP as a way to generate more cash in Fiat terms so I can sell and spend the cash to enrich my life and not sell my Bitcoin.

azdcaz

Ignore him. My friends in tradfi gave me tons of shit for buying Bitcoin between $6000 and $15000. Said I was regarded when I was buying MSTR at $20-40/share. My CFA friend just called me a moron this month for buying more BTC at 76k.

panthersam

Buy some bitcoin ETF or MSTR stock, I don't think you'll have the same problems

low_contrast_black

Not sure what your point is other than Bitcoin = good. That’s not a debate here. I, personally, am not going to give MSTR or 21 any of my fiat. Why would I dilute myself when I have the opportunity to buy at the source?

yazalama

Because MSTR exists

Doogy44

You cant short bitcoin by shorting MSTR or by shorting CEP/XXI (Mallers’ company) … you only short the company, not the bitcoin they own.

NoUsernameFound179

Coinbase? Or maybe buy MSTR?

1millionnotameme

I mean, it's happened every cycle, there's a bust and BTC drops like a rock, last time it was the FTX crash, this time it's speculated to be the MSTR type companies (unlikely though) so who knows, ultimately though, the point being, just DCA during these dips and over the long term you'll up massively

ShavedW00KIE

There is no second best. Bitcoin is savings. MSTR will likely grow faster than Bitcoin in dollar terms but I would recommend 60% cold storage Bitcoin. Then invest with the other 40%

wss-tosser

Mix of IBIT and MSTR shares, selling covered calls, and buying ITM leaps.

JerryLeeDog

Jumped in yesterday Mallers is a BEAST of a business owner and this company is like **200x smaller than MSTR right now** I could care less what the mNAV is right now.... Plus, I just put a foot in the water. But, if I would have put it in the water at this point of MSTR, I could buy an island by now haha. I still have a great spot in MSTR. Thank god I decided to research that...

acorcuera

Cuz there’s MSTR.

Waste-Bread-8786

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with everyone :) .. I have a question for you (related but also not related to this topic) In one of you posts you stated "Currently, 50 MSTR shares would cost approximately $17,000, compared to \~$90,000 for 1 BTC Even with a conservative assumption that MSTR’s mNAV doesn’t increase, you would need 95 shares to achieve millionaire status, which would cost around $32,000 at current prices" When I Google MSTR's price when Bitcoin hits 1million, it puts MSTR's price per share at: "If Bitcoin were to reach $1 million and MicroStrategy's Net Asset Value (NAV) premium remained stable, a share of MicroStrategy could potentially be worth around $2,000 (x 95=190K) to $4,000 (x 95= 380k), depending on the NAV premium at the time" I so my question is why are these numbers so different :) ?

KiNg-MaK3R

This is the way. Though I feel dumb when MSTR goes up like 7% in a day when bitcoin goes up 2%. But I believe in Bitcoin and when it goes down, I know what I own. MSTR's premium makes no sense. But neither do most of the thousands of other stocks that exist.

ItsPickles

If that was the case we would see 99% allocations to IBIT, MSTR, BTC

probabletrump

A stock that owns bitcoin is always going to have a certain amount of risk that bitcoin doesn't. CEOs make decisions some good, some bad. If they make bad decisions it doesn't kill bitcoin but it could kill the company. Bitcoin can't go brankrupt. It could be outlawed, the block chain could feasibly be compromised in some way. It isn't without risk, but a company that owns bitcoin has all that risk plus the risk they their stock could go to zero. If you're considering buying one of those stocks (even MSTR) then why not just send me your cash and I'll buy bitcoin for you?

PlasticEyebrow

My thoughts are the same as with MSTR, I prefer owning bitcoin.

AllCapNoBrake

The soft ass mods here keep banning me...those flakes over on MSTR too.

AAAdamKK

I'm considering it, but can someone give me a reason why this will outperform MSTR other than its smaller market cap. I'm hesitant that the likes of tether are behind this and I don't know much about Canton.

el_rico_pavo_real

Smash bought CEP, the Jack Mallers XXI SPAC. It’s like buying MSTR’s little brother early. Can’t go back in time to buy MSTR early… so I figured why not go for CEP (XXI)?

ASIFOTI

You have a money making problem. Focus on keeping your bitcoin, learning more skills to make more money, buy the bitcoin and the pc parts. Just my two Satoshi 🍻 Ps when you use bitcoin as collateral, you’re essentially giving people/companies access to your Bitcoin. If you feel the need to make income from your Bitcoin you might want to keep your stack and buy some MSTR or some derivative of BTC that pays a dividend but never your actual Bitcoin. Bitcoin is sacred, don’t play games with your Bitcoin no matter the stack size. Good luck with your decisions

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The Federal Reserve has revoked its 2022 guidance requiring banks to notify regulators before engaging in cryptocurrency activities, opting instead to monitor such activities through regular supervision. Michael Saylor, co-founder of MicroStrategy (MSTR), welcomed the move, stating that banks are now 'free to begin supporting Bitcoin.' This decision aligns with Fed Chair Jerome Powell's recent remarks on easing crypto regulations and reflects growing mainstream acceptance of cryptocurrencies. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

ManlyAndWise

But isn't this exactly what MSTR already does? They sell shares above NAV (or other debt products or preferred shares) and they buy BTC with it. Whenever they do it, the notional BTC content of every shares increases.

ManlyAndWise

So if I understand it correctly, the only distinguishing feature from MSTR is that they don't have the (rather irrelevant, though it produces some cash flow) software business? Am I right?

yldf

I stand by my opinion that for the vast majority of people, in the current state, where Bitcoin has little to no utility, buying Bitcoin directly is a bad choice and they are better off buying exposure indirectly, through ETFs or similar products (not MSTR, though, that’s something very different). For average users, and that includes the majority of this sub, securing and backing up a wallet properly is not achievable. They would be better off having the convenience of a regulated broker. This is also what makes ETF exposure superior to centralized exchanges, your assets are better protected. Holding Bitcoin directly in your own wallet is only reasonable for users with advanced technical knowledge. And considering how many people think it sufficient to buy a hardware wallet and store a backup copy of the seed phrase somewhere in your house is frightening. It’s better than average, but certainly insufficient.

thesavagepotatoe

I agree with the sentiment, however having some exposure to vehicles such as $CEP/$XXI/$MSTR isn’t a bad idea if it means you have tax free exposure in an ISA or 401k. It’ll never be as good as owning sats, and it’s important to understand exactly what these companies offer, but exposure via other means isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

Trader0721

Who the eff is selling 500k to MSTR…someone always sells…

clicksanything

People have money trapped in 401k/retirement pensions etc that can’t buy the real thing, so BTC-derivatives like IBIT is the next best thing for them to get price exposure to the real thing at the cost of not having true self-custody. Thats one example. In general it depends on your goals as an investor and the type of account you’re investing in. If you’re looking for consistent income and focused on cash flow, stocks like MSTY/IMST might be up your alley. If you’re focused on growth and can do it in a tax advantaged acc like me, stocks like MSTR and prob XXI (currently CEP) are prob the way to go.

clicksanything

Same my btc stack would remain untouched because any liquidity I need would be drawn from MSTR and eventually MSTY

sneezydig

Would anyone be interested in a full write up/analysis on this? We recently put out the MSTR explanation post and article.

ms-roundhill

Probably not, because I won't particularly need to. Because I'm so into MSTY/MSTR

clicksanything

My wife doesn't care. Sometimes I tell her bitcoin ripped or crashed she just says thats nice. She doesn't own any BTC but I convinced her to hold MSTR in her tax free account lol.

TiestoForever

Assuming you have gains on your brokerage holdings you will still have a tax hit if you sell out of those stocks and move to MSTR or a BTC etf Unless you are in a non taxable account like a self directed IRA as example

choicehunter

Yes, but even if we limit the discussion to MSTR since it's the one you mentioned (and ignore things like entrepreneurship, and more) if MSTR was just the same as BTC then it wouldn't be outperforming BTC and it is. The point is about being careful about stating absolutes or sweeping generalizations that are easy to disprove. It just gives BTC enemies easy fodder to impeach the credibility of supporters. We don't need to exaggerate how awesome Bitcoin is with dis-provable false absolutes. It can speak just fine for itself without cherry picking.

JerryLeeDog

MSTR is a Bitcoin company that uses BTC as a measuring stick. That's not the norm and the only reason it is outpacing. Fiat companies will not be able to hang

JerryLeeDog

MSTR is outpacing Bitcoin Gold is getting trampled

faiqR

SNB just doubled down heavily on their MSTR position past quarter. I find it quite hilarious, considering the negative comments by the SNB president. Source: https://x.com/coinbureau/status/1914675556739899694?t=gxE4LtHd3NFM5V7gO5SJvA&s=19

HuffDaddy009

Are they doing something different here than MSTR? If not, I don’t see why you would invest in this as they will never catch Strategy in terms of acquired BTC.

Generationhodl

I'm not sure regarding the performance. When I look up how MSTR performed its pretty sick to be honest. Its basically leveraged BTC. But of course, if you buy MSTR, you buy several different risks that you don't have with owning bitcoin in cold storage.

Generationhodl

I wonder if I should put around 10-15% of my BTC-Stack into Bitcoin treasury companies like Metaplanet, MSTR, Blockchain Group... I just wonder myself what are rational reasons why I should not do this. It would clearly be a little gamble on their outperformance of bitcoin. I feel like it would be investing into companies like apple or amazon in their early years. Of course you have risks like companies going bankrupt or harder decline in a bear market. For me it seems clear that bitcoin is here to stay (already since 15 years) and it could be a good idea or very profitable to own some stocks of the biggest bitcoin only treasurie companies. Is 10-15% of the own BTC-Stack too much? What % would you personally chose for that?

bobbyv137

This is somewhat misleading as the US has Coinbase, an American publicly listed company, that holds some 2 million plus coins on behalf of all its clients, retail and corporate. And then there's MSTR, holding 500k+, again a US company. My point? If Bitcoin goes the way we think, the US gov **will absolutely seize those coins,** one way or another. It may not happen for **a long time,** but it will happen in the end. ⏰

prince_peepee_poopoo

In a situation like this, does anyone see a scenario where MSTR or IBIT counts towards the USA? Not like we've ever seized gold or anything.

marcio-a23

Saylor do arbitrage, he sell Premium into bitcoin. Strike and strife are not moved by volatility... You get some but not all. If you are not all in on MSTR you don't understand enough, no ofense.

marcio-a23

MSTR is 2x bitcoin dude

marcio-a23

Where is MSTR stock and gold vs bitcoin? Seems biased I am BTC maximalist

marcio-a23

I am none I am 1.000% up in MSTR stock My goal now is growth of purchase Power, i can do the n.4 later.

Mantis-Prawn

Funny, as actually MS is investing 150% of MSTR investors money, and everyone over here calls him a legend.  Now OP can use gov't money and he is stupid? Double morales over here are crazy!

marcio-a23

Move to MSTR stock

Ok_Dragonfruit_4194

Good point but there's plenty of people involved in actual banking that don't agree with BTC either. TBH I'm not sure if Saylor is even good for BTC. I see him as risk, but thats probably because MSTR debt structure is too complicated for me to understand anymore.

Terhonator

Bitcoin yield is the most important metric. If MSTR has 0,00150 bitcoin at beginning of quarter and if they have 0,00165 bitcoin at end of quarter the bitcoin yield is 10 % because each share of MSTR has 10 % more bitcoin per share. Bitcoin yield is the reason why investors want to buy MSTR shares instead of raw bitcoin. You can analyze raw bitcoin as value investment and MSTR as growth stock.

TonnoTonato

I read something interesting, it was like "The elite already knows who created bitcoin. Players like blackrock, MSTR probably know too. Big players like that would not risk their existence and the existence of their company on bitcoin if it could get rugpulled by one person". This is highly theoretically and no one knows if its true, but it gives me a good feeling

NckyDC

you can also look at BTC proxies like MSTR or CEP now... but holding your BTC will always feel better

ModestGenius66

Me: CHF 200000 of Lombard credit at around 2.4% a year of interest, against investments in BTC, MSTR and, in much smaller measure, MSTY. Borrowing is still prudent as I have another brokerage account with an unused Lombard line of around 225000 EUR.

vijsha79

You need to spend time on digging into this. MSTR is at intersection of Bitcoin and Tradfi and benefiting from both sides. The reality is that big capital sits in tradfi and MSTR creates securities like convertible bonds and preferred shares which allows them to raise money to buy more bitcoin.

pqrs90

MSTR is converting shares (economic energy) to digital gold (bitcoin)

DuckDuckMosss

But, but, $MSTR!!!

Fun-Sundae4060

This is the entire premise of MSTR’s existence. Borrow dollars, sell shares, buy BTC. It works over the long run… so long as BTC keeps going up. If you get a massive correction then you’ll lose your shirt right away.

clicksanything

I have all my BTC in cold storage and MSTR in my TFSA/RRSP too dem tax benefits and FHSA because im hoping to buy a house in the near future. Im up bigly rn.

clicksanything

I do the same but DCA actual bitcoin. I have it on auto DCA buy every 3 hours lol. Once the stack gets large enough, transfer to cold storage. In my tax advantaged accounts I have MSTR. Been stacking BTC heavy since 2022 and MSTR since last year and I am up bigly right now.

clicksanything

...I was replying to the comment that if only given the choice between IBIT or MSTR, that the latter is the better pick. Im well aware of the risk/reward ratio between owning MSTR vs BTC lol I've owned a fair amount of both for a while now. Also if you think Strategy has potential of bankruptcy at any point in the near future I don't think you understand MSTR.

clicksanything

Yep. Buy MSTR. Buy shares of an operating company that holds half a million bitcoin that in the future they will be able to do stuff with, instead of buying an overnight deposit IOU that says you "own" bitcoin. (IBIT/FBTC)

cunth

Yeah you can comfortably get 60% yield selling covered calls on MSTR. I use the premium to buy actual btc.

sneezydig

Totally possible move. We have a few colleagues that sell covered calls and generate a decent amount of income from MSTR. Definitely can be profitable, it's just a question if there are better opportunities with that capital.

Rroadhog

Vanguard lets us buy MSTR and they have over 530,000 bitcoin in their treasury and are better than a BTC etf imho

BullyMcBullishson

I prefer actually bitcoin. I also have some MSTR in a tax-free savings account

Candid-Guard1345

I heard MSTR is more volitile because it goes higher when bitcoin pumps?

BullyMcBullishson

You don't have to buy MSTR. You can, though. You'll still gain a form of exposure to bitcoin that way

vijsha79

Since Aug 2020 MSTR has returned ~2700% where as BTC has returned ~690% [charts](https://www.strategy.com/charts) Strategy is monetizing the volatility and securitising bitcoin for different types of investors and using smart leverage to increase the return for MSTR shareholders. It is worth looking into and doing more research. I have personally spent hundreds of hours researching this. Also MSTR shouldn’t replace your Bitcoin in cold storage. NFA

Imaginary-Effect733

How would MSTR give better returns?

KiNg-MaK3R

MARA is basically the same thing as MSTR. But the answer is simple, you should just own bitcoin.

vijsha79

Paying a financial advisor to buy Bitcoin ETF 🧐 Nothing wrong with buying ETFs but you in a retirement account why not hold something like MSTR which would give better returns and you don’t own keys in both cases.

Candid-Guard1345

So I just buy BTC, don’t need to buy MSTR

Impossible_Tank_1865

I’m on the P&C portfolio management side. For casualty there are concerns about ‘social inflation’ impacting claims in the coming years in general. In my view this is really driven by juries and judges feeling the cost of living crisis + income inequality, which are both in turn is driven by monetary debasement. Given that this inevitably gets much worse in the near term, how do we hedge against the risk of inflation blowing up casualty claims 5 years out? Can rates adjust upwards enough year after year to keep up or will underwriting always be on the back foot? Or can we hedge better on the investments side to account for this scenario? For that reason I think the MSTR convertible bonds are interesting. Less volatile downside risk and probably some capital credit as opposed to direct Bitcoin exposure. 

420osrs

I keep hearing this repeated ad nauseum over and over and over without stopping. I asked the people who repeat this one simple question and they cannot answer or they get confused. 1) There is a premium of MSTR over the amount of Bitcoin that they hold over the amount of revenue that they generate. Why would you pay 20% extra when the business model can be replicated? There is now a market for Bitcoin swap bonds, so other companies can do it now. What makes strategy worth more than other companies that do the same thing other than they were the first person to do it and their size? 2) Do you expect the premium to increase? Meaning that if MSTR is worth 120% of their Bitcoin, do you anticipate this to increase to 140% or more? If so, why?

sneezydig

Since I've gotten this question a few times: If MSTR were to collapse and file bankruptcy, their assets are treated like any other companies. Creditors or other debt holders would get first dibs to cover obligations. IE the same institutions that are benefiting by purchasing the convertible bonds and playing the volatility arbitrage, would also recoup their investment. It would then pass to shareholders, but as we know they are often left with the scraps, if anything is left. The BTC would likely be dumped on the open market under court order to liquidate assets.

PlasticEyebrow

MSTR, Metaplanet, Tesla, Block Inc, Galaxy Digital, The Brooker Group, Fold, Nexon, Meitu, Aker ASA, Xapo Bank, The Tezos Foundation, Stone Ridge Holdings Group, Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company, Lisk Foundation, Seetee AS (according to chatgpt)

Impossible_Tank_1865

I’m Bermuda reinsurance based. I think Bitcoin and Bitcoin-backed instruments are really interesting from a long-tail business capital management standpoint.  Allianz buying the MSTR converts really raised some eyebrows (but mostly just invited laughter and dismissal). Still very early

harvested

So there's gonna be a new MSTR, SoftBank, Cantor, Tethr are joining forces and Jack Mallers is CEO. Pretty cool.

BQbaobao

No, some of my “BTC” is actually cash leveraged into MSTR which I may sell eventually to buy pure self-custody bitcoin. But I will not sell bitcoin to buy any other investments. The big thing im unsure about is future tax treatment of btc. Under current tax regime where you pay taxes on bitcoin similar to investments, it makes sense to buy Mstr, sell for a gain, pay taxes, put rest into BTC. This may buy less BTC than if I just bought it today, but the tax basis would be much higher so net positive. But if BTC is not taxed in the future, then I should just be stacking as much as I can now. Wondering how others think about it.

Fiach_Dubh

obligatory PSA: MSTR stock, bItCoIN ETF's, and other stocks are not BITCOIN. They're paper IOU's Buy The Real Thing and HODL it in Self Custody

Alfador8

You're right, and they *did* utilize the new FASB rules last quarter (unlike MSTR). I stand corrected.

Western_Sympathy_358

I would go all in in mstu…is a etf which gives 2x MSTR return

No-Pepper6969

I decided to buy 5 instead of 50 shares of MSTR at 238$ 2 weeks ago. I know the feeling