MSTR

1A655A9CEC05B28E04

Yes it may be the same effect at the same point in time but you have to look at the bigger/longer picture. Not selling BTC means that when btc moons, they capatalize on all the gains, let's say they sold 50% of their btc stash, they'll only capture only 50% of what could've been captured if they didn't sell. The inverse is also true but why are you buying MSTR if you don't believe in BTC?

GreedVault

If MSTR ever sells, that will definitely unlock another bear season.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitwise CIO Matt Hougan asserts that Strategy (MSTR) won't be forced to sell its Bitcoin holdings even if its stock price drops below net asset value (NAV). Despite concerns raised by CEO Phong Le about selling Bitcoin as a last resort, Hougan highlights the company's strong financial position, including $1.4 billion in cash and no debt due until 2027. He dismisses fears of a massive Bitcoin sell-off, emphasizing that MSTR's situation is stable and unlikely to impact the Bitcoin market significantly. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

ReliantToker

Presumptuous little gremlin aren't you! I'm 60% BTC 40% MSTR. Gold is old money, and inferior to bitcoin in many ways, but a more reliable measuring stick than fiat.

HomelessInASuit

None of this was speculation. You can literally see it on the charts and in the way volume, and shorts were being piled. They fired every single bullet in the chamber to fake the push to 127k. Once they couldn’t sustain the run up, and our orange leaders horrific tariffs, and crypto fraud schemes revealed there was actually nothing real behind the push. It has fallen ever since and looking for a true support. Then you had MSTR mNAV almost dropping below 1 and a market that’s literally too afraid to report its own data. This is just GME all over again. When in doubt they’ll repo it out. BTC was about to abridge all the way back to supports at 73k until the shorts got greedy. (Go ahead check the forex Data) CZ, Armstrong, and the exchanges do what they always do. Spark a fake liquidity drive, run a story (This way Vanguard ETF funding, bullshit it’s been around for years) spike insane volume candles out of thin air and pump another run clearing the shorts and providing short term stability. You’re actually clueless if you think any of this is speculative. Writing was everywhere.

Affectionate_Knee_96

I’m in my early 20’s so I’m not into real estate yet, I do have some MSTR. But that’s been a rough time 😂 should’ve bought some Tesla earlier this year but I stuck it out in MSTR. Once I understood BTC I realized everything else isn’t as good.

JDovah

Yes, as Bitcoin gains more adoption, its volatility will decrease. I believe the main reason the previous bear cycle was so severe is because of the amount of black swan events that happened in 2022, this is something a lot of newbies probably don’t know about. Combined with the state of the post covid global economy, it created the perfect conditions for the huge crash we saw during that year. So it’s likely this bear market won’t see as big of a downturn, unless a series of black swan events happens again, one example that comes to mind is MSTR selling their BTC and collapsing.

baIIern

>Earlier this week, Michael Saylor’s bitcoin treasury company Strategy (ticker MSTR) established a $1.44 billion U.S. dollar reserve to support dividend payments on its preferred stock and interest on its outstanding debt. Ooof. Later on it will all look so obvious in hindsight...

Sonster111

yeah the MSTR worship is kinda wild. theyre just borrowing money to buy BTC, if rates stay high or BTC drops hard the whole thing gets sketchy fast

MaybeOnFire2025

[](https://www.reddit.com/user/MaybeOnFire2025/)Question -- I didn't know squat about MSTR until recently. As I understand it, the core idea is the belief that bitcoin will never go down in the long run, so they buy and hold. Claim to never want to sell (except for the recent caveat). I also understand that bitcoin doesn't produce revenue. I further understand that they just diluted their stock to pay existing shareholders a dividend. Questions: 1. How do they generate revenue, other than by stock dilution? 2. Does this dilution, coupled with the recent "well, *maybe* we will sell BTC if we need to" announcement, mean that other equity is essentially not available, and that it's dilution or (or then) bust? 3. If I am correct about #2, and they are paying *existing* debt obligations with diluted new equity...how is this not a Ponzi scheme at this point?

LargeSnorlax

OP also has no idea what he's talking about which one again makes me sad that such nonsense reaches the top post pretty much daily. Bitcoins entire proposition is decentralized money you dont need a middleman to transact with. Spoilers: Financial institutions adding middlemen has nothing to do with Bitcoin whatsoever. People speculating on price and making products around it has nothing to do with the core mechanism. If MSTR and the ETFs disappeared tomorrow Bitcoin would be entirely unchanged. The price might drop but again, price is not "how good Bitcoin is" and someone owning a lot of Bitcoin has nothing to do with how it works. The literal entire point of decentralized money is that anyone can use it. Businesses using it *is* the point.

harvested

You sound like you're discussing the stock/company here. I'm not suggesting you buy it. We're here for BITCOIN, buyer or seller MSTR is irrelevant. If you want to discuss the company itself - go to that sub.

TheDirtyOnion

Long term maybe, but MSTR has created a bunch of near term liabilities that need to be paid in USD.  So if BTC drops a bunch over the next 1-2 years they might be forced to sell at a loss to finance requires payments on their debt and preferred equity.

HomelessInASuit

You are just dead wrong. Liquidity was almost completely dry across the board. These prints aren’t “random”. If this injection didn’t happen MSTR, and the likes of crypto would have continued to fall off a bridge. Name one other positive sentiment driver rn other than blatant fraud? Been in the scene since 2016 so I can assure you this isn’t “nothing at all”. Volume was down almost 3x as well and oh look at that random volume candles at 3am with a 10 billion run up buy out of nowhere. You need to look more to understand what’s happened here and why.

VanilaaGorila

And my dad is texting me about buying the dip on MSTR… what to do? What to do? Sell some Bitcoin and move profits into MSTR for extra exposure? 

JeremyLinForever

I think you should stack more BTC and MSTR. They will both decouple from the traditional finance norm altogether.

Seattleman1955

Bitcoin didn't get "completely absorbed" try traditional finance or anyone else. Regarding the MSCI index, MSTR probably should not be in it. These discussion would be more interesting if people were more focused. It doesn't matter what MSCI does or JP Morgan. BTC is what it is and as long as it is useful and serves a purpose, it will be fine. I am surprised that not enough people are focused on the flaws with the MSTR model but people don't want to hear it so most discussion are going to be shallow and fanboy like.

Lostwithsight

The hedge funds will use derivatives to short the price of paper btc. This is how they gather income while surpressing price. I am currently selling all positions in my etf accounts. This is why MSTR has such a low price. If you feed the etf's you are part of the price supression. I am a fan of BTC! I am sick to my stomach seeing what wall street has done to a perfect system. As you go on your journey this will become obvious.

Lostwithsight

The hedge funds will use derivatives to short the price of paper btc. This is how they gather income while surpressing price. I am currently selling all positions in my etf accounts. This is why MSTR has such a low price. If you feed the etf's you are part of the price supression. I am a fan of BTC! I am sick to my stomach seeing what wall street has done to a perfect system. As you go on your journey this will become obvious.

FrankSlipHelp

Dude, you are all confused. The fund owns the companies, the fund owns the crypto, the funds own the underlying assets, owners of ETFs own shares of the fund, they do not own the underlying assets. Read the headline of that article I linked >MicroStrategy pauses buys, says MSTR shareholders don’t own its bitcoin

FrankSlipHelp

>You actually own the companies if you have the ETFs though otherwise why would you buy them over stock if they didn’t give you rights? You ever been on a shareholders call owning an ETF? You ever had voting rights owning an ETF? No, you do not actually own the companies, you do not own an ETF’s underlying asset, you own the rights to a share of the underlying asset, you have no rights over the underlying asset itself. If you actually owned bitcoin you could send me a Sat, can you do that? You say you own bitcoin, can you buy something with the ‘bitcoin’ you own? No, because the MSTR owns the bitcoin, you own a product that MSTR has sold you, a share in an exchange traded fund. Crypto ETFs give exposure to crypto to those who do not want any of the responsibilities that owning your own coins comes with, KYC with crypto, holding on DEXs, custody with wallets. Some who prefer an ETF or ETP are also interested in the security of the institution that offers the , and the security of their own buying platform, they are interested in tax savings, some are interested in investment in these ETFs within a 401(k) or Roth IRA. Lots of reasons, none are about rights to the underlying asset. >Come to the light... get yourself some bitcoin for a rainy day, whether you get it through MSTR, etfs as you like, or on an exchange, or in a wallet... it’s really a great invention. I use to mine btc, btc use to be like change in your car’s center console, like many when cards and energy increased it became another game for deeper pockets. When the bch fork happened that is when I stopped stacking btc, when btc had a great run up last cycle I dumped into altcoins and made multipliers btc hasn’t seen in over a decade. Great invention, poorly cared for and executed.

SilverPrivateer

You actually own the companies if you have the ETFs though, otherwise why would you buy them over stock if they didn't give you rights? Yep I knew it. Altcoiner. Just plain as day lol. Come to the light... get yourself some bitcoin for a rainy day, whether you get it through MSTR, etfs as you like, or on an exchange, or in a wallet... it's really a great invention.

Axe_Raider

i guess i was too subtle. MSTR is just a wrapper around BTC, and the fact that it was trading at a large premium to its holdings was an easy arbitrage condition -- one that you exercise by shorting MSTR to buy BTC.

Axe_Raider

the lovefest here for the MSTR corporation makes no sense. MSTR should be worth the bitcoin it holds. it shouldn't matter if it is or isn't listed in any index. the massive premium that MSTR used to have over BTC was nonsense, and i'm glad traders took advantage of the arbitrage to short MSTR and buy BTC.

JanPB

Not to get BTC but to make life harder for MSTR e.g. by exercising their MSCI control, threatening to delist MSTR from some indexes. JPM announced this on 10 October, and the BTC price started to go down roght on cue. These are just facts, YouTube are free to draw theor own conclusions of course.

investingtruth

There's been such obvious hypocrisy from Jamie Dimon who spent years calling Bitcoin a fraud while JPMorgan quietly built blockchain infrastructure, offered crypto exposure to wealthy clients, and now launches bitcoin linked structured notes. Bitcoin and companies like MSTR threaten their business model by offering direct ownership and transparent settlement without needing banks as gatekeepers. So JPM's strategy is to slow down the threat while building their own versions they can monetize and control. As a business their goal is to make money and they're clearly in pursuit of that, whether bitcoiners like it or not :/

Alex_A3nes

Do y’all not think MSTR is a stain on Bitcoin? The sooner they get washed out the better in my opinion.

_bad

...the fuck are you people talking about? JPM is issuing a deposit token. JPM's asset management recommends having some portion of your portfolio including crypto. They just said they see an upside potential of over 150% on the current price of BTC. You idiots are falling for MSTR bagholders shilling fake news on xitter. MSTR is a fucking accounting scam based company that is doomed to fail. Just buy BTC if you want to participate in this asset.

yoobermcruber

Take his balls out of your mouth. Those coins don't even belong to him. They belong to the corporation Strategy and the MSTR shareholders own shares in Strategy that give them an equity stake in the corporation. The Winklevoss twins own substantially more coins than Saylor. Are you going to glaze them too? What about Tim Draper? He owns about twice as many coins as Saylor. Go show Draper's balls some love. Don't forget about Max Keiser. I'm sure he still owns more coins than Saylor too.

Calm-Professional103

1.  MCSI threatens to delist MSTR for having more than 3% digital assets 2.  JP Morgan debanks Jack Mallers 3.  Jaime Dimon working on a high fee derivative product that tracks Blackrock’s IBIT ETF instead of Bitcoin itself.  Wall Street’s gambit is to control the rails and extract fees from an asset that otherwise they can’t touch.  Be careful who you call “friend”. 

Aim-for-greatn3ss

What is MSTR i bought it yesterday because it was a buy and sold close to highs morning. But what are they?? Stock been smashed

pop-1988

> The chart gives off a vibe that MicroStrategy wants to build an entire tower of financial products on top of the value of Bitcoin. It looks like stacking leverage on leverage A bit like making derivatives by bundling home mortgages, and then selling derivatives of those bundles The big difference is that MSTR operates in the public stock market, and has no secrets. The investors are fully informed. If they choose to invest, they're accepting the risks

FrankSlipHelp

>I became a bitcoiner via MSTR today You are not a bitcoiner via MSTR, not your keys not your coins.

3sides2everyStory

That certain price is about $17K. And they have about 6 years of runway before that would be a problem. MSTR isn’t going to get liquidated.

SilverPrivateer

If it unravels then us bitcoiners will buy MSTR to stop him from market dumping. Or else the bitcoin price will go very low! If you have 1 billion dollars worth of bitcoin you would definitely see the threat and buy some. I'm guessing you're a nocoiner?

SilverPrivateer

I just became a bitcoiner via MSTR. I didn't understand it before and didn't want to lose my seed key if I write it down, but now I see the vision. Stateless money, here I come!

SilverPrivateer

Yep I don't really trust those Ethereum companies. You can create new etheriums by changing code in a computer, right? I became a bitcoiner via MSTR today and although I've been temped to try altcoins I kinda feel like everything is a scam compared to bitcoin. Still considering other ones though if anyone wants to "shill their bags"

FastCar_5

I posted this on wsb for mstr, but applies to most coin markets by correlation actually. The MSTR situation Don't play MSTR on any fundamentals/analysis you might have thought about (whether you're long because you believe in the coin or short if you don't), you will end up losing money on the average. This is the closest thing to a casino within a casino. It sits on a made up asset in a mostly unregulated space, and is a fantastic wheelhouse for luring people into its tables ( aka mstr based financial instruments). Playing with those instruments is just as good as playing roulette. On average, the house (aka the MMs) will always win. If that's your thing then go for it, but just understand it's a casino^2 situation. This is the underlying business, everything else that Saylor says is just a facade. Retail buying common shares is just a bonus. Most of these purchases are for covered derivatives. So remember, how does a casino go down? When the people simply stop coming to it, not when people are still directional betting on its tables (aka assuming long and short positions on the derivatives), because the house will absolutely absorb the aggregate excess in any direction, and bust the majority out.

harvested

Long term, Bitcoin CAGR should be higher than the distributions on the preferreds, and never has to repay them, unlike debt. So, these buys are good for share holders. The common stock isn't for everyone though. Best way is just stack sats - forget about MSTR.

VariatCA

Yep lol, their volatility would make memecoins jealous. All the volatility of a memecoin, and none of the personal ownership, possession or control of Bitcoin. Not that I can't appreciate why people invest and believe in MSTR, hoping that they can secure their stockpile by the time BTC has finally "truly matured" in finance and can cement themselves as a gigantic central figure. But by that time... owning some of my own BTC would be just as cool too.

devCheckingIn

Yeah but MSTR also did a 4x in Q4 2024. It basically trades like a memecoin.

VariatCA

>I know if bitcoin goes up in value then I benefit from stateless money Meanwhile in reality, MSTR fell over -25% from its July 15th peak until early October, where Bitcoin had multiple recoveries and set new all-time highs in that time lol. Currently, MSTR is down -60% from that date while BTC is down about -21%.

VariatCA

ETF's and holding on Exchanges are in the same ballpark. You own it to an extent, you can buy & sell it "any time you want" (only during business hours and unless there's maintenance / service outage), and you have 0% possession of it otherwise. You've got less than zero protection if that Exchange goes under while they have possession of your asset. Again, all you have with MSTR is exposure to a company that *actually* owns and controls Bitcoin. You have no Bitcoin at all.

devCheckingIn

Saylor isn't selling all of his BTC if mNAV drops below 1. In fact, he might not sell any at all if he has access to other capital to allow him to pay out the dividends he's liable for. And the mNAV is just as much a function of BTC price as the stock price. If BTC wasn't being such a turd, MSTR would be fine.

harvested

Volume wasn't that high though, today's recovery more likely due to relief from MSTR or Japan etc but as always, who fucking knows, keep stacking me lad!

SilverPrivateer

There's no FUD. I bought into cryptocurrency via MSTR because I want a mutually beneficial relationship. My purchase of MSTR helps Saylor buy more bitcoin (helping you!) and hopefully you, as a bitcoiner, will understand that sending us a bit of help in times of need (MNAV 1.0) will keep your digital assets from being destroyed. Yes, this is a threat, but it's also a carrot and the stick.

VariatCA

> I dipped my toes into cryptocurrency via MSTR >Now that I have some bitcoin A does not imply B whatsoever. If your introduction to crypto is MSTR, you don't have any Bitcoin at all.

SilverPrivateer

I dipped my toes into cryptocurrency via MSTR and I have a STARK and DEADLY warning for bitcoiners. If our MNAV goes below 1, we WILL market dump bitcoin. Your precious crypto coins will be destroyed. Any time MSTR is going near 1, you better buy some common stock, or your precious digital money is going to get dumped. Hard. This is our warning. Now that I have some bitcoin, what should my next purchase of cryptocurrency be?

RonMexico16

Honestly comparing MSTR to a leveraged, covered call ETF is one of the better ways to look at it as a “company.”

uncapchad

I'm curious that it happened today, not yesterday. All the Bitcoin FUD was yesterday and we saw MSTR take a pounding, yet ABTC dropped today and MSTR recovered....

VIXtrade

What's the marked to market value per share of the BTC they hold? Is it currently worth $180 a share? Not long ago MSTR was trading at around more than 20x book value

drew8311

They don't own that much and were late to the game, MSTR on the other hand...

VIXtrade

> with cold hard cash Lol what? MSTR just keeps selling more shares to schmucks so every share is worth even less than before. Now there's 3x as many shares as just a few years ago.

SatoshiBlockamoto

Fed rate cuts, MSTR S&P inclusion, tariff policy changes etc, all could lead to a fresh liquidity injection.

uncapchad

Peter Schiff - most reliable indicator for all Bitcon (and now MSTR) bottoms

doubledee1963

No .. look for 40-60k MSTR BLOWS UP

deepcole

MSTR is that you hiding?

sker13559

Check out all the uninformed fudsters and bots. Keep eating up the FUD that is coming directly from the big banks that have the most to gain from the real ponzi USD. Too bad you missed out on MSTR pre split. Life changing. But instead you buy high and sell low and cry, or you listen to FUD. Do your own research.

VariatCA

Imagine the MSTR buyers who bought the bottom at 158 yesterday and are now up +18%. They just outperformed the S&P's entire YTD performance in less than 24 hours

AnyPortInAHurricane

I envy all the MSTR hodlers from 450. They get to enjoy this epic rally

HSuke

If they can buy MSTR, they can buy an ETF. > they can buy a BTC backed security or ETF like MSTR MSTR is not an ETF.

LividChocolate4786

Don't see the problem. Everyone always has the option to self custody but no one should be forced to. The ETFs and MSTR allow way more people to get exposure to BTC.

trimbandit

I've been using vanguard for over 20 years. They really screwed up on this one. They were not able to articulate a clear reason because they don't have one, except that they hate crypto. You can't say the spot ETFs are too risky for your investors, but at the same time they are free to buy MSTR, which is basically leveraged Bitcoin and way riskier. It's too bad, because they are a great company. They pioneered index funds and have been a huge proponent of low cost investing for the masses.

VariatCA

I think there have been issues weighing heavily on Bitcoin in the last two months, with the biggest concerns being the extreme short-pressure on MSTR (and their underlying asset, BTC of course), the shakiness in confidence for the Fed's next rate cut, and the Bank of Japan's potential for a rate hike. The direction the market goes depends on the resolution of these issues. Interest rates affect speculative liquidity (money flowing back in to Crypto), and MSTR's concerns of possibly being removed from the Nasdaq won't be resolved until potentially mid January. If these all align favorably, I'd imagine that not only will equities rise, but the downward pressure on Crypto will alleviate in a *huge* way. Not even mentioning big wild card events like the Supreme Court ruling tariffs illegal and refunding a trillion dollars back to corporations.

Thelamadalai190

The irony is Vanguard is one of the biggest owners of shares in MSTR for many years now, a BTC holding company.

sker13559

Look up and digest a graph of Satoshis per share of MSTR and get back to me. Long term share holders have more (much more) BTC in value today than we did 1 year ago. Its a fact. MSTR is a leveraged BTC play. Every share holder has received more BTC over time for the initial investment. An ETF doesn't do that. For the record I own BTC, MSTR, and FBTC.

sker13559

You dont know that's the point. I never said companies. I said institutions. Pension funds for example own lots of MSTR. They have no mechanism to hold BTC. In many countries it would be against the law for the Pension Fund to buy BTC. However, they can buy a BTC backed security or ETF like MSTR or FBTC. Find out for yourself. The measure of MSTR that matters is satoshis per share. If every share holder is only receiving more BTC over time (we are) it cant be a ponzi. FUD is working to shake out people who don't understand MSTR and aren't fully bought into BTC.

Aggressive_Spell2314

Awesome, are you loving this bitcoin journey? I know I am. Lots of FUD last month: 50-MA FUD, Quantum computing FUD, MSTR FUD, Japanese Carry Trade FUD. Just sitting back and chilling 🙂

harvested

Strategy are not gonna puke up 25K coins but what's the big deal if they do? Market will absorb like every other time. Your worst case scenario is not that bad, just don't buy MSTR stock I guess?

Premium_Hunter

A lot of people lost their ass shorting MSTR. Only a few nailed the timing and were rewarded handsomely.

PirateSKB

>mstr has to stand on its own merit as a business MSTR is gonna die trying to do that lol

awesomeplenty

They gonna try to liquidate $MSTR, bookmark this tweet

ajarbyurns1

I think MSTR is really only for short term traders (and degens). Holders are better off just buying BTC.

uncapchad

you aren't missing much. The usual trash talking, glee in the fall of BTC's price, doom posting about MSTR and the usual "ponzi", "bubble" etc. There are still more bots promoting their signal telegram chats than any actual conversations...

LordCustard

I hope youre right im 100% in MSTR

Ashamed_Moment_2477

Being a clear a Ponzi scheme the whole MSTR idea is stupid. Why would a whale want to make that entity rich, by building a BTC bag, that holds 5% of the entire supply?

deedoi28

The only way to find out is to see who’s on the news when MSTR going up 100% a day. That’s the day showing on the news a major fund or company goes bankrupt because of a bad decision made to short MSTR. 😂

Krembolix

Wow, last time so much FUD on X was when Germans gov sold their stack. Looked up some comments on MSTR or BTC price action and lots of negative input from random ac targeting specifically MSTR etc

CryptoCryptonaire

I'm seeing a lot of coordinated hit pieces against MSTR lately. It seems more likely right now than not that you are employed by JPMorgan or some other entity afraid of what MSTR is providing because they are going to take the entire bond market.

JeremyLinForever

No, the well informed investor would see that the YOY return on BTC is actually the hurdle rate. If Bitcoin is returning 50% year over year, then you need a small portions of an equity or instrument that returns more than 50% YOY hurdle rate. What would give this? MSTR.

MJDiAmore

So MSTR Leap Puts then?

matecitogalactico

friendly reminder that this guy was the one who popped the dot-com bubble 25 years ago, with this very same ticker, when it was found that he was cooking the books and MSTR dropped 60% in a day

_Commando_

Kinda like the food pyramid (eat more of this, and less of this). So in MSTR view (invested more of this, instead of this)...

catson43

Saylor is doing a lot of handwaving without any substantial backup. Here is what's really happening: MSTR’s stock market valuation has fallen so that the company is now priced below the value of its Bitcoin holdings (on a “net BTC asset” basis), which signals markets have become highly skeptical of its business model — especially under leverage. Much of MSTR’s strategy relies on issuing convertible debt, preferred stock or equity, then using proceeds to buy more Bitcoin. But with Bitcoin’s price down and investor appetite waning, that strategy becomes much harder to sustain. Their convertible debt, (a big part of their financing) poses near-term risks: some of it may need to be repaid (or refinanced at much higher cost) by 2027–2028 if stock prices remain depressed. Because of this debt pressure + falling “premium” over BTC value + limited liquidity in cash/reserve, MSTR might eventually face a situation where selling some of its Bitcoin becomes a “least bad” option to stay afloat. Indeed, management recently admitted that such a sale could not be ruled out if certain financial thresholds are breached.

Gubbie99

Halving limits the daily inflation. Makes it a bullish thing for BTC. 1BTC = 1BTC right? Well, not when it comes to pay electricity and other various mining costs. I don’t talk small home mining. I talk huge mining companies. And wether it’s a mining company. A CEX. A crypto casino. Like most companies in this world, there is competition. And if you can remove competition you will likely be more profitable down the road. To remove competition you lower the price of your product so the competition starts to struggle. When they give in you starts to push price back up… now you sell more of the same product because there is less competition. If you have been in the game since 2016 you peoboably have heard of various CEX and companies giving in or going bankrupt. Wether it’s real wars, economic wars, trade wars. It’s often about hurting the enemy to a point where you take over or stand stronger in the long run. I don’t see this strategy for companies or whales change because we now have various ETF’s. I just see the game easier to play for more participants. I used to call my self “the observer” often I’d rather just watch how things play out and learn than gamble. And a lot is going on behind the scene. A lot more than I know. It just strikes me how many different things happening right before October 10. And that did happen since. And I don’t think MSTR might have been the initial target. But strategy is a big BTC player and did become questioned since the bear market started. Now, why did CZ get pardoned, trump talks about crypto being the future backbone of finance, (a trump insider shorting the top) and a DNS outage. And huge amount of liquidations happen at the same time? Thats in my book far to many variables playing together to be random coincidence. We know that Binance and ftx did fight their battles last cycle and what the outcome was of that. So atm this isn’t just standard let’s all keep stacking BTC… it looks like some major cooperate wars going on. And I recall Bitmine even warning people about playing with leverage atm during this volatile period. With all different ETFs… even just at the etf level we might see competition to be the biggest and best ETF issuer so they can earn the most revenue. The game didn’t change… it just expanded

sker13559

Big banks hate MSTR and Stablecoins. Be on the lookout for nonstop FUD. Who wins if Saylor looses? You think its a coincidence that crypto dumped and the NYT published a hit piece on Davis Sachs? Yall some dumb mother f ers

dj_destroyer

MSTR made lots of money, now they make more.

dj_destroyer

The graphic is describing the what supports what. MSTR is the underlying stock, which owns Bitcoin, which is then used to offer the four credit instruments, with varying degrees of quality. From junk bonds to perpetual preferred.

defacto_hedonist

Bottom not in until MSTR goes tits up

3sides2everyStory

I don't have it at hand, but the sub-NAV premium is listed in their 10‑K risk statement with SEC. And they just announced a $1.4 Billion cash reserve with new guidance to close the year. MSTR is not going anywhere. And they're not going to sell BTC. This is a nice Arb opportunity at the moment. Almost 20% discount of BTC per share. Could go lower.

RonMexico16

The pyramid shown and the MSTR pyramid scheme are two separate things…just a poor choice of graphic by MSTR. The pyramid scheme accusations come from MSTR’s “unconventional” business model where they don’t actually make anything. They effectively keep borrowing money (or issuing new equity) to buy more BTC and pay cash dividends. The whole scheme relies on a future where BTC only goes up forever and ever. So yeah…basically a pyramid scheme wrapped in lots of sophisticated sounding finance terminology.

VariatCA

Ask that in the Wallstreetbets sub, you'll get enough answers to publish a book about it. Some people hate Bitcoin. Some hate Saylor and his almost cringeworthy (for a public CEO) front-facing optimism about BTC and MSTR's acquisition gains. Some simplistically view MSTR (and Bitcoin for that matter) as a surface-level ponzi scheme. Some remember his involvement in the dot-com bubble 25 years ago. And if you add all that up, some people *really, vocally and eternally* hate how when you combine everything they hate about all those subjects, they still sat on the sidelines watching MSTR and Bitcoin skyrocket back up in price.

etaoin314

lets say i was conspiracy minded and thought about how entrenched powers might want to destroy confidence in crypto perminantly so that it would not ever come back. I think MSTR is about as good a strategy I can think of. after all the alts have been ruggpulled to death and are on their last legs Make the one safe haven left in crypto Bitcoin the lynchpin that brings it all down forever. MSTR is the blasting cap that ignites the dynamite.

sunnysideupppp

Buy MSTR

AnyPortInAHurricane

MSTR and BTC are the same scam

dylang01

Companies have a legal responsibility to maximize shareholder value. MSTR did this when their shareprice was above NAV by issuing more shares to buy BTC. The reverse of this is just as true.

dylang01

I think you misunderstood what their comment is. They're not talking about the BTC cost base. They're talking about share price vs NAV. If the share price drops below NAV MSTR should sell BTC and do share buy backs. They won't, and someone will sue them for breach of feduciary duties to maximize shareholder value.

grumpy-m0nkey

Maybe just MSTR

EnZ07boyyy

MSTR is over 10% up from its bottom this morning

Pale_Drink4455

Well I believed the same with MSTR in late 22 and that has worked out bigly for me.