MSTR

PirateSKB

>mstr has to stand on its own merit as a business MSTR is gonna die trying to do that lol

awesomeplenty

They gonna try to liquidate $MSTR, bookmark this tweet

ajarbyurns1

I think MSTR is really only for short term traders (and degens). Holders are better off just buying BTC.

uncapchad

you aren't missing much. The usual trash talking, glee in the fall of BTC's price, doom posting about MSTR and the usual "ponzi", "bubble" etc. There are still more bots promoting their signal telegram chats than any actual conversations...

LordCustard

I hope youre right im 100% in MSTR

Ashamed_Moment_2477

Being a clear a Ponzi scheme the whole MSTR idea is stupid. Why would a whale want to make that entity rich, by building a BTC bag, that holds 5% of the entire supply?

deedoi28

The only way to find out is to see who’s on the news when MSTR going up 100% a day. That’s the day showing on the news a major fund or company goes bankrupt because of a bad decision made to short MSTR. 😂

Krembolix

Wow, last time so much FUD on X was when Germans gov sold their stack. Looked up some comments on MSTR or BTC price action and lots of negative input from random ac targeting specifically MSTR etc

CryptoCryptonaire

I'm seeing a lot of coordinated hit pieces against MSTR lately. It seems more likely right now than not that you are employed by JPMorgan or some other entity afraid of what MSTR is providing because they are going to take the entire bond market.

JeremyLinForever

No, the well informed investor would see that the YOY return on BTC is actually the hurdle rate. If Bitcoin is returning 50% year over year, then you need a small portions of an equity or instrument that returns more than 50% YOY hurdle rate. What would give this? MSTR.

MJDiAmore

So MSTR Leap Puts then?

matecitogalactico

friendly reminder that this guy was the one who popped the dot-com bubble 25 years ago, with this very same ticker, when it was found that he was cooking the books and MSTR dropped 60% in a day

_Commando_

Kinda like the food pyramid (eat more of this, and less of this). So in MSTR view (invested more of this, instead of this)...

catson43

Saylor is doing a lot of handwaving without any substantial backup. Here is what's really happening: MSTR’s stock market valuation has fallen so that the company is now priced below the value of its Bitcoin holdings (on a “net BTC asset” basis), which signals markets have become highly skeptical of its business model — especially under leverage. Much of MSTR’s strategy relies on issuing convertible debt, preferred stock or equity, then using proceeds to buy more Bitcoin. But with Bitcoin’s price down and investor appetite waning, that strategy becomes much harder to sustain. Their convertible debt, (a big part of their financing) poses near-term risks: some of it may need to be repaid (or refinanced at much higher cost) by 2027–2028 if stock prices remain depressed. Because of this debt pressure + falling “premium” over BTC value + limited liquidity in cash/reserve, MSTR might eventually face a situation where selling some of its Bitcoin becomes a “least bad” option to stay afloat. Indeed, management recently admitted that such a sale could not be ruled out if certain financial thresholds are breached.

Gubbie99

Halving limits the daily inflation. Makes it a bullish thing for BTC. 1BTC = 1BTC right? Well, not when it comes to pay electricity and other various mining costs. I don’t talk small home mining. I talk huge mining companies. And wether it’s a mining company. A CEX. A crypto casino. Like most companies in this world, there is competition. And if you can remove competition you will likely be more profitable down the road. To remove competition you lower the price of your product so the competition starts to struggle. When they give in you starts to push price back up… now you sell more of the same product because there is less competition. If you have been in the game since 2016 you peoboably have heard of various CEX and companies giving in or going bankrupt. Wether it’s real wars, economic wars, trade wars. It’s often about hurting the enemy to a point where you take over or stand stronger in the long run. I don’t see this strategy for companies or whales change because we now have various ETF’s. I just see the game easier to play for more participants. I used to call my self “the observer” often I’d rather just watch how things play out and learn than gamble. And a lot is going on behind the scene. A lot more than I know. It just strikes me how many different things happening right before October 10. And that did happen since. And I don’t think MSTR might have been the initial target. But strategy is a big BTC player and did become questioned since the bear market started. Now, why did CZ get pardoned, trump talks about crypto being the future backbone of finance, (a trump insider shorting the top) and a DNS outage. And huge amount of liquidations happen at the same time? Thats in my book far to many variables playing together to be random coincidence. We know that Binance and ftx did fight their battles last cycle and what the outcome was of that. So atm this isn’t just standard let’s all keep stacking BTC… it looks like some major cooperate wars going on. And I recall Bitmine even warning people about playing with leverage atm during this volatile period. With all different ETFs… even just at the etf level we might see competition to be the biggest and best ETF issuer so they can earn the most revenue. The game didn’t change… it just expanded

sker13559

Big banks hate MSTR and Stablecoins. Be on the lookout for nonstop FUD. Who wins if Saylor looses? You think its a coincidence that crypto dumped and the NYT published a hit piece on Davis Sachs? Yall some dumb mother f ers

dj_destroyer

MSTR made lots of money, now they make more.

dj_destroyer

The graphic is describing the what supports what. MSTR is the underlying stock, which owns Bitcoin, which is then used to offer the four credit instruments, with varying degrees of quality. From junk bonds to perpetual preferred.

defacto_hedonist

Bottom not in until MSTR goes tits up

3sides2everyStory

I don't have it at hand, but the sub-NAV premium is listed in their 10‑K risk statement with SEC. And they just announced a $1.4 Billion cash reserve with new guidance to close the year. MSTR is not going anywhere. And they're not going to sell BTC. This is a nice Arb opportunity at the moment. Almost 20% discount of BTC per share. Could go lower.

RonMexico16

The pyramid shown and the MSTR pyramid scheme are two separate things…just a poor choice of graphic by MSTR. The pyramid scheme accusations come from MSTR’s “unconventional” business model where they don’t actually make anything. They effectively keep borrowing money (or issuing new equity) to buy more BTC and pay cash dividends. The whole scheme relies on a future where BTC only goes up forever and ever. So yeah…basically a pyramid scheme wrapped in lots of sophisticated sounding finance terminology.

VariatCA

Ask that in the Wallstreetbets sub, you'll get enough answers to publish a book about it. Some people hate Bitcoin. Some hate Saylor and his almost cringeworthy (for a public CEO) front-facing optimism about BTC and MSTR's acquisition gains. Some simplistically view MSTR (and Bitcoin for that matter) as a surface-level ponzi scheme. Some remember his involvement in the dot-com bubble 25 years ago. And if you add all that up, some people *really, vocally and eternally* hate how when you combine everything they hate about all those subjects, they still sat on the sidelines watching MSTR and Bitcoin skyrocket back up in price.

etaoin314

lets say i was conspiracy minded and thought about how entrenched powers might want to destroy confidence in crypto perminantly so that it would not ever come back. I think MSTR is about as good a strategy I can think of. after all the alts have been ruggpulled to death and are on their last legs Make the one safe haven left in crypto Bitcoin the lynchpin that brings it all down forever. MSTR is the blasting cap that ignites the dynamite.

sunnysideupppp

Buy MSTR

AnyPortInAHurricane

MSTR and BTC are the same scam

dylang01

Companies have a legal responsibility to maximize shareholder value. MSTR did this when their shareprice was above NAV by issuing more shares to buy BTC. The reverse of this is just as true.

dylang01

I think you misunderstood what their comment is. They're not talking about the BTC cost base. They're talking about share price vs NAV. If the share price drops below NAV MSTR should sell BTC and do share buy backs. They won't, and someone will sue them for breach of feduciary duties to maximize shareholder value.

grumpy-m0nkey

Maybe just MSTR

EnZ07boyyy

MSTR is over 10% up from its bottom this morning

Pale_Drink4455

Well I believed the same with MSTR in late 22 and that has worked out bigly for me.

TheRealSlimKami

But don’t zoom out too far for MSTR right? Right?!

TheRealSlimKami

MSTR is a fucking ponzi, it’s insolvent by design.

Observantone13

there’s been talk of forking bitcoin, from like blackrock and other financial giants, and it only makes sense. They’re trying to destroy MSTR now, and if I owned any, and if it went down quickly (less than a day, as nobody would be able to get a transaction validated by mining) I’d just hold it. If I had t already sold. I dunno. It seems that the network, as is, just needs to change. I hope they fork it to a federated sidechain on the XRPL 😎

VariatCA

By that definition, 2025 has entirely been a bear market. Though historically (on both the way up *and* on the way down) BTC will trend alongside the momentum of the stock market with increased volatility. The last market downturn starting late-2021 also saw the Nasdaq/S&P trending downwards for nearly 14 months. Nasdaq topped out around -35%, while BTC topped around -70%. Then the trend reversed early 2023, and BTC recaptured its all-time high around the same time the Nasdaq did in March 2024. This equated to BTC rising +316% in that time while the Nasdaq did +55%. Volatility goes both ways. As of late though, there's a much stronger decoupling that has been going on. Though some of the blame can be placed on the technical liquidation failures from Binance on Oct 10th, and immense short-position pressure being applied to MSTR as well as BTC.

investingtruth

This is 10% legitimate concern wrapped in 90% conspiracy theater. MSCI isn't "banning bitcoin" they're debating whether companies that are essentially leveraged bitcoin proxies belong in broad market indexes designed to represent diversified equities. And MSTR isn't a diversified operating company anymore, it's a $50B leveraged bitcoin fund. Wall Street isn't trying to "control" bitcoin, they're trying to profit from it, which is what they do with every asset class. Just buy IBIT or self-custody bitcoin and ignore the drama.

VariatCA

Tough to say. Though I've said for weeks that we're still at the mercy of the stock market and a loosening monetary system. QT ending and even possibly transitioning into QE in 2026 is a positive sign. Lowering interest rates is a positive sign (though we're all still stuck worrying about if the Fed will actually lower them on Dec 9th / BoJ won't raise theirs on the 18th). It's also tough to know how much of this BTC pressure is due to the immense short/selling pressure being applied to Strategy right now. There are surely institutions derisking from BTC just because of their worries about MSTR. Last night though shows the power of leverage into low-volume trading. It was $100 Million in fresh shorts *every minute* for over an hour. That's the equivalent of dumping 1,100 Bitcoin into the spot market to sell every single minute.

_bad

Yeah, the long term case for BTC is a totally separate topic lol. I agree, I'm also long term bullish but that doesn't mean I'm going to invest 100% of my liquid net worth into btc. Clearly btc is on a rocky road right now and who knows what happens in the short term if MSTR collapses and investors start to panic sell BTC equivalents like IBIT. Also, who knows what happens in the short term if AI spending starts to unwind and the stock market retreats.

zowhix

The annual dividends currently are estimated to be around 750-800 million dollars. Even if it makes them survive for the time being, the payments are in perpetuity and the problem will persist. Yields often go hand-in-hand with the risk profile. Institutions have gotten rid of MSTR by the billions after identifying such troublesome structures to manage their risk. That being said, logically they should be fine for now.

zowhix

BTC itself dipping does not automatically result in the premium collapsing, it is more convoluted than that. In fact, BTC dipping while MSTR maintaining would enhance the NAV premium, but evidently fundamentally business-wise there would be issues since the underlying asset would seem worse.

RonMexico16

Nah. Nobody will care. It’s not like an MSTR failure will cascade into the housing market or broader economy.. It’ll just be speculative value destruction.

Wsemenske

Wouldn't it be funny if MSTR falls over their skis and gets liquidated because of how overleveraged they still are, causing a huge temporary crash (would be a great time to buy as someone not using leversge) But then Blackrock and JP Morgan buy up their bitcoin and the now "government approved" owners make Bitcoin go to 1 mil. Sorry Saylor, you aren't more important than Bitcoin.

FnAardvark

I asked for a link to JPM attacking MSTR and that's what you replied with. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by calling you a bot. You may just be an incredibly stupid human.

Confident_Section568

Only -11% for MSTR today

Confident_Section568

You mean MSTR and Michael Saylor?

Zigxy

The “purpose” was to become a widely-used, cash-alternative, trustless, stablecoin that was immune to inflation. It is pretty much impossible that any of those things will happen any day soon. Whether it’s transaction cost, transactions per second, confirmation time, or the unforgiving nature of P2P technical screwups… the hurdles are very difficult to get over without having to compromise on the “trustless” aspect. So here we are. A company that will eventually make the case that they should be the “trust” to alleviate some of the issues. Maybe it will be a profitable endeavor? I don’t know. Strategy stock is still the same price as their peak in the year 2000. Adjusted for inflation investors during the bubble took a beating buying MSTR. I don’t have a lot of confidence in Saylor.

anchorboi

MSTR doesn’t have a magic pile of cash. They buy BTC by selling stock/debt when the market is dumb enough to pay 2–3× premium for their Bitcoin stash. When BTC dips, the premium collapses - they literally CAN’T raise big money without screwing shareholders. So yeah, they buy the most at the top and pause at the bottom. That’s the cost of running the most leveraged Bitcoin accumulator on Earth.

n4weed

Seems like the "market maker" in trouble is really MSTR. It'll take the crypto market down as a whole but I expect a recovery sooner than later. 

anchorboi

MSTR doesn’t have a magic pile of cash. They buy BTC by selling stock/debt when the market is dumb enough to pay 2–3× premium for their Bitcoin stash. When BTC dips, the premium collapses - they literally CAN’T raise big money without screwing shareholders. So yeah, they buy the most at the top and pause at the bottom. That’s the cost of running the most leveraged Bitcoin accumulator on Earth.

noviwu97

MSTR ponzi causing the next bear market has always been in everyone's mind since 2023. We all aware of it but everyone's hoping it could last longer.

Zigxy

Yep, this $11m purchase was basically symbolic. MSTR is the worlds worst Bitcoin ETF Now if they can monetize their stack by becoming the “Bitcoin central bank” then I might change my tune. Until then, the dilutions will continue and I’ll remain cynical.

islanda_1973

MSTR is down 10% today, it seems the USD reserve stunt did not work

dataCollector42069

shorting MSTR has been the easiest money

islanda_1973

MSTR down 7.2% today

aaj094

Why don't you get a similar feeling to say 'Tim Cook just tells you to buy his phones so they can make money'? You do realise there are competing products arguably just as good so the fact people buy any product is as much to do with human behaviour as people buying MSTR to gain exposure to a supply constrained asset.

FnAardvark

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that these stocks are completely without risk, because that's obviously not true. However, I do think that there's a market of people who belive in MSTR long-term, but question their ability to pay a 10% dividend in a bear market.

FnAardvark

Care to share a link of JPM referring to MSTR as having "FCKED" products? JPM has made standard risk assessments, which they have historically done. This is nothing new, and you're too emotional.

FnAardvark

JP Morgan didn't slam Saylor or MSTR. MSCI is deciding whether or not MSTR qualifies for their index and JPM released a warning that if other indices follow suite, they could get delisted from the nasdaq 100. Also, Saylor doesn't have an angle, somone asked what it would take for MSTR to sell bitcoin, and it was answered.

Barnyard_Rich

Leading with an insult just really shows how insecure you are in your argument. And look at that, you ended with one as well. I know you're not a newborn so what would we call a non-bitcoin aligned company that publicly stated that they need new investors to dump in money to pay already existing investors what they are owed. Hint: It has the word "scheme" in it. I'm not saying that is what MSTR is, but I am saying it's fascinating that MSTR is now a fiat currency trading company that also happens to have a bitcoin treasury. Remember: no matter what else you say, MSTR is bragging that they are using investments now and going forward to invest in fiat currency, not more bitcoin. Sure, they'll buy a few coins to stay active, but they themselves state they need to raise another billion in new fiat investment just to feed the investor build out they already have.

harvested

Did they call you Simple Simon in school? MSTR has commitments that must be paid in the short term in USD. People were spreading mstr is going to have to start dumping their bitcoin reserves, now they have a fiat reserve to cover the distributions. You wanna delete your post or just look like an idiot?

Barnyard_Rich

Interesting. I never really considered there would come a day when a poster in a bitcoin forum acting in good faith would celebrate MSTR accumulating fiat currency by the billions.

harvested

MSTR started a $1.44 bn USD cash reserve. You guys gonna stop sharing fud now?

panthera_N

MSTR is only related to BTC, not crypto, it is as risky as any other stock

devCheckingIn

Strategy now publicly floating the idea of selling BTC. I guess the price action didn't go to plan for them this year. >Phong Le, CEO of Strategy (MSTR), said bitcoin would be sold if if the company's multiple to net asset value (mNAV) - a valuation metric that divides the company's market capitalization by the market value of the Bitcoin it holds - fell below 1. >"So now, as we're looking at bitcoin winter, as we see our mNAV compressing, my hope is our mNAV doesn't go below one. But if we did and we didn't have other access to capital, we would sell bitcoin," he told a podcast interview that published Friday. "That would be a last resort." >The mNAV for the company formerly known as MicroStrategy, whose share are down 38% this year, currently stands at 1.19, but reached as high as 2.5 times in 2024 and around 1.7 times in June. An mNAV above 1 means Strategy trades at a premium to its bitcoin holdings. >"We don't really want to be the company that's selling bitcoin," Le said. "We have the most bitcoin. Us selling bitcoin wouldn't be good for the ecosystem, it wouldn't be good for the narrative."

dataCollector42069

I am here shorting it via MSTR - easy short to make seeing all dillusionals who still believe in crypto after what we saw in 2025

xarips

just imagine the level of capitulation when MSTR fails

devilishm

Whales are offloading. We're not in 2017 anymore. We're in distribution phase. Etfs and MSTR is the last part in redistributing their gains. The last phase is to offload btc when ETFs came in. Unfortunately btc didn't pick up from ETFs and retail as much as they hoped

devilishm

So I've posted a lot. But the fact is I don't know if btc will go up or down. As is evident, the price of btc is now in the hands of the rich. They could lure you in, like the last week, and finish you off like today. They could wait a bit longer. They could decide, they've had enough btc, to push it to ath. Or they might think they still want MSTR's holdings for cheap. I don't know what they want, otherwise I'll be rich. Invest at your own risk.

harvested

The lack of understanding around MSTR is surprising. There's no forced liquidation of bitcoin. The sale of bitcoin will simply be to fund distributions on the preferreds. That's all. So any 'target on his back' is irrelevant.

devilishm

Exactly. Bitcoin is in essentially a reverse ponzi scheme right now. Shorts are currently the winners. But MSTR right now is still the the treasure. Kill it and shorts get their goal for cheap btc. There is a reason why smart money is sitting in the sidelines It's to wait for that to happen

Simke11

All of those things can and probably will affect BTC. But the fact is if MSTR does capitulate and sell some of its holdings it will have by far the biggest impact.

devilishm

Looks to me like shorters are sniping for MSTR's Bitcoin holdings

BitcoinBaller420

The MSTR mNAV is above 1, and they won't need to sell bitcoin in any size to meet their obligations unless Bitcoin stays down for many years.

beachandbyte

A poorly leveraged BTC ETF is all I really see. It trading above NAV is an anomaly. Not that it can't continue to trade above NAV but usually you would find things trading above NAV where the actual strategy had some level of difficulty in implementation or just getting the equity or assets as a retail trader is difficult or impossible. If the market decides not to pay a premium at some point (which is the reasonable position), it's only real value is whatever BTC it has. Your basically paying a premium per $ of BTC, and for your generosity get a TON of counter party risk. I don't understand the bet at all, as what advantage does he have by being a "bigger player", if anything he is now more vulnerable, and can't move or protect positions with any real level of agility. Any move he takes to protect his position will likely further hurt his position, as it makes the news etc. As a small player you can take on actual leverage, exit and enter positions with ease with no effect on the market. If bitcoin makes some massive move in overnight, you can just stop our or exit a position. It would take bitcoin going to ZERO for you to lose all your money. Basically I can't think of ANY reason someone would choose to buy some MSTR vs just buying some bitcoin.

Wsemenske

This is nonsense and exaggerates how much they owe and the risk Their preferred offerings are at a total of around 20 billion vs their Bitcoin holding of around 70 billion. (No where neart 0.9) Then you have to remember that the amount owed on the dividend are at most 10% APR. So they need even less to pay their dividends. (Much less) Finally, and most importantly, the preferreds are structured in a way that MSTR is not obligated to be forced sellers to pay their dividends. It sounds strange but that's part of the preferred contracts. Only the older convertible bonds have obligations, but those have largely been transitioned to the preferred which are much more advantageous to MSTR So .9 mnav is no where near a threat you make it seem. MSTR has survived much worse capital structure and Bitcoin downturns. A 0.9 mnav is nothing to panic about

ZacharyMorrisPhone

Because they have preferred dividends to pay out. It’s an issue for several reasons. Mostly it has to do with leverage, liquidity, and how quickly they can raise capital. At 0.9×, equity issuance becomes nearly impossible. Capital markets will freeze for them because they rely on ATMs, convertible debt and bond issuance to pay their dividends. Their entire Bitcoin accumulation strategy depends on being able to raise cheap capital. Read the article I linked for more details. I hold Bitcoin. I don’t want it to fall. But I’m not going to pretend we aren’t in a bear market or that MSTR dumping coins won’t impact sentiment and drive us lower.

pop-1988

MSTR trades at a premium to its Bitcoin stash because shareholders set the price in expectation of BTC price growth. It follows that if the price doesn't grow, eventually this optimism diminishes Even so, if they can't raise funds to buy more, the main effect is that they stop buying more Then they may need to sell to fund their borrowing costs, but they'd only need to sell a tiny fraction of the stash - unless the price falls a long way, maybe below $2000. If it falls that far, nobody cares whether they hoard or sell, or how much they sell

imprimis2

What’s this thing with JPmorgan vs MSTR?

ZacharyMorrisPhone

Oh boy you got me. Yes I trade equities. Also crypto. I own real estate too. I’m sorry I’m not going to pretend that MSTR dumping coins won’t have any impact on sentiment.

lasthan1

MSTR hinted selling BTC

dataCollector42069

MSTR 12/05 puts gonna print

NeitherGas5326

From COIN MARKET ISRAIL @israil_4life on X (Twitter) Breaking Down the "Saylor Strategy Dump" Rumor: Real Risk or JP Morgan FUD?The viral claim circulating on X (formerly Twitter) suggests that Michael Saylor's company—now rebranded as Strategy (ticker: $MSTR)—could be forced to liquidate its entire ~650,000 BTC stack (valued at ~$58.4B at current prices) if its market-implied net asset value (mNAV) dips below 0.9x. With mNAV reportedly at ~0.96x now, a BTC price drop under $80K would allegedly trigger this "nuclear option." This has sparked panic, with posts warning of a market-crushing supply flood. But is this a genuine existential threat to Bitcoin, or just recycled fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) amplified by JP Morgan's bearish notes? Let's dissect the facts, mechanics, and incentives step by step

NeitherGas5326

$MSTR down $6.08 to $17.10 (-3.55 %) in the pre-market.

cohibababy

MSTR can lower their average cost.

KoBaChain

Interesting dynamic. MSTR falling 61% against BTC's 23% drop is a classic example of the 'leverage' effect through equities. The company has essentially become a leveraged ETF. The real question is how sustainable this model is in the long run, especially with growing macro risks and Bitcoin's own inherent volatility. If the premium to NAV disappears, the entire mechanism breaks down.

RonMexico16

Well yeah…but that’s not how Saylor designed the “flywheel.” His whole business model relies on investors trusting him enough pay more than the NAV for MSTR equity. Without it, MSTR is just a poorly leveraged BTC ETF. If MSTR doesn’t trade above the value of it’s BTC holdings, they can’t issue equity at attractive valuations and buy more BTC than the dilution it causes.

charvo

Other DATs are dead before MSTR. That's for sure.

Phylaras

Not quite, but it's certainly not good. The stock price would crater. And then maybe someone would swoop in and start acquiring MSTR shares. Honestly, while people talk about MSTR, it's the other DATs that worry me. I think this one will trade below mNAV, but it'll survive (writing with the info I have now, not financial advice). Other DATs ... there will be consolidation.

INeverSaySS

Stocks pay dividends, or reinvest those dividens in order to generate more future dividends. Land is areable and can generate a roi without selling as well, farming is quite the old profession... Plants, drugs and cars are consumeables and you very rarely buy them to sell them later at a profit. But yes, bitcoin, baseball cards, collectibles and MSTR don't have any more usages than to sell for more than you bought them for.

-Sliced-

MSTR is likely a net negative to Bitcoin long term. In the short term they have helped bring more money to Bitcoin, by constantly raising money from the public. The problem the being is the amount of leverage and obligations they are they taking. It means that if Bitcoin crashes, and MSTR faces liquidity issues and need to start selling like you said, it further devalues the price of Bitcoin. So deep crashes can end up significantly more painful. If they end up going under - all the large amount of Bitcoin they hold will be forced to be liquidated creating further downwards pressure and over supply of Bitcoin for a while. Of course, if Bitcoin never crashes below a certain threshold, and MSTR is careful with the amount of obligations and preferred stocks they issue, this scenario might not pan out.

cohibababy

MSTR does not have to service debt until September 2027 when the first $1.05 billion is due. In theory it could survive a BTC price under $20k. At the moment the stock price is close to NAV but it may need to sell BTC for some cashflow. However, contrary to the speculation of numerous social media pundits it no longer has any loans on margin so it won't be igniting a death spiral selling BTC as the result of a margin call even if BTC goes down to their average buy price of around $74,000.

Right-Avocado3870

Not understanding why MSTR drops at a higher percentage than BTC is a clue that you shouldn't be investing.

RonMexico16

I’m not sure where BTC will go. Generally up? Seems like volatility will be a hallmark. That doesn’t seem like a good fit for a debt heavy business that relies on its debt burden to always rise with the underlying asset it buys. I keep thinking back to past financial crises. We don’t know when and how the next one will come, but they always do. There will be an uncontrolled run on the “bank” at some point for BTC and there’s no FDIC or circuit breaker by design. A big event like that will wipe out MSTR very quickly. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when.

AllGoodFam

MSTR I don't even invest in it bud. But you calling out to be a ponzi scheme is kinda lame of you. Saylor has been pro btc for a long time and you're just mad and that's okay. If you pin point how it's ponzi scheme go out and bullet pin everything you got on him.

beachandbyte

Except it’s not really leveraged BTC (for the share holder) you are usually getting the opposite where $1 of MSTR gives you LESS exposure to BTC vs just buying $1 of spot BTC.

aaj094

Help me understand this. If you agree that Bitcoin can reasonably be expected to appreciate more than 10%pa for the medium term, why is it a problem for MSTR to offer 10% or so as yield to debt or preferred shares holders and thus have a proposition for higher gains to the common stock?

RonMexico16

I don’t think MSTR is fraudulent. This model has been used fraudulently in the past though. What’s novel this time is that people are (presumably) knowingly signing up for a clear pyramid scheme. Most fraudsters try to hide that part a little. He’s honest about it.

RonMexico16

MSTR gang…Always straight to the insults. Never change, guys.

RonMexico16

Agree. He’s going to eventually undermine all confidence it crypto overall when MSTR inevitably fails.

RonMexico16

Some companies use debt/equity financing to make a product or service that can be sold. The revenues generated help support the valuation of the companies equity (shares) and pay back debt. MSTR uses that money to buy cryptocurrency. There’s no revenue generation (I don’t count the paltry software sales) to use to pay back debt issuers or to pay the cash dividend to preferred shareholders. The only way to do that is to take out more future debt or issue more shares and dilute current shareholders. Finance professors in a few years will teach whole classes on this company.

charvo

MSTR has been selling overvalued stock to buy btc. It would make sense to sell btc to buyback undervalued stock if the stock falls below nav. Berkshire does buybacks at 20% below book value.