MSTR

analogOnly

Totally, which is why I said regulated. It's good to own the asset itself first, then second the ETFs, then third stock like MSTR or that Japanese company MetaPlanet...

-reddit-online-

Ira was all GBTC. Bought heavily when the discount was about 50%. When the conversion happened sold that for IBIT to save on fees. Then May 1st when MSTR corrected hard I sold IBIT and went all in on MSTR. I did this in my cash account too. So I am 75% self custody BTC 25% MSTR between the 2 accounts. Thought about a bitcoin ira once but it seemed expensive and i worried about counter party risk. Everything is safe to use until it isn’t.

Any_Brother2570

I was supporting your comment. Totally got it and loved it. Was referring to others. That's interesting about MSTR. I may look into this myself

dlm83

I’m not a purist and wasn’t sharing an opinion, I just chimed in with a joke ;) Making as much money as you can sounds logical to me, I’ve had better % returns from MSTR than BTC, BTC is in front in terms of $ returns because I invested more in it, longer ago. I pretty much only buy the proxies via my tax advantaged accounts these days, being happy with my “pure” BTC holdings. I just want to get laid like I was 21 again and never work like I was 17 again, ya know?

SmoothGoing

Why is business intelligence software company interested? Oh, look MSTR pumped their stock from ~$500 to ~$1700. ONMD is a penny stock company worth $23M and spends money they don't have to try and do the same thing for them.

Secure-Rich3501

As a trader that is even daily and just interested in fine and selling to attain some greater Fiat value over time you could watch technical analysis but I believe you are a question is more about fundamental analysis, which lends itself to more of a value style of investing and even book value. So any adaptation of normal stock trading or balance sheet and generally accepted accounting principles are more difficult with Bitcoin except that GAAP and FASB (Financial Accounting Standards Board) has given Bitcoin the usual accounting favorability quarter to quarter... Michael Saylor was counting on this and as such I would argue it is part of the 4X Bitcoin price improvement comparison over about the last 6 months as I checked this days ago and overlap the microstrategy return with Bitcoin... MSTR... This could also be a way to gauge is value in terms of how corporate compliance and methods of acquiring Bitcoin have a more creative approach as Michael has repeatedly used shares of microstrategy and loans and methods to not only use Bitcoin as a cash reserve on his balance sheet but simply to acquire more Bitcoin! So in other words I believe there is also another overall gauge for the price of Bitcoin in terms of creative financing, BTC ATMs, eventual banking beyond the failures of Silvergate Bank, even the actual coins they sold well over a decade ago that had the private key (lol)(Casascius Physical Bitcoins)... I mean you could simply just overall call this adoption examples but they've really added up over time despite this hilarious actual coin one that brings up serious security questions! They stopped selling in 2013... Actually would have been some way to counter veil the huge Mount Gox failure to come within months... So the coins were something less worse back then... This also brings up your own personal ownership security beyond the actual security of the network which is meaningless if your private key gets out of your hands. So value could be a function of the concept of security that you fully understand like with a air gapped Keystone and having generated a private key offline on a device you could even destroy and eternally have your blockchain assets owned with 12 or 24 words... In your head plus bip39 = getting your assets whenever you want with a new device. Maybe the best real world and understandable for the last 5,000 years concept for valuing Bitcoin, which is always a matter of comparison and frame of reference, would be gold. Energy use per ounce of gold "Is Bitcoin More Energy Intensive Than Mainstream Finance?" Article that includes some gold comparisons 4 months ago I'll stick some of the details and my own calculations in another comment

lordinov

What do you mean negative? I’m all in MSTR with 6 digits portfolio, I’ve got Bitcoin on the side and I’ve been a huge Bitcoin supporter for a long time. Probably the way I expressed myself you got it wrong, my bad, sorry.

Darryl_444

On August 1st [MSTR](https://www.microstrategy.com/press/microstrategy-announces-10-for-1-stock-split_07-11-2024) will have a 10-1 stock split. So the new price per share will be 1/10th of what it was just before, but holders get 10 times as many shares as they previously held, resulting in zero difference to them. Whole shares will become more affordable for people who previously couldn't afford even one, or would just prefer to spend less overall. This also improves liquidity for everyone.

el_rico_pavo_real

It’s a perfect plan for MSTR shareholders. Price dips, buy more at discount, bitcoin added, price rises. Infinite money glitch.

CaptainDr

MSTR dropped like 10% this morning for no reason. Saylor selling stock to buy BTC?

False_Song7418

Yes, I do buy individual stock of some crypto companies such as Coinbase. I don’t dable with MSTR because they have a huge Bitcoin holding which definitely reflects during price fluctuations of Bitcoin.

Fluid_Message_1057

Yep, although I’m at the point where I feel like I have too much which is kind of weird to say. I’ve been watching MSTR for almost as long as BTC and might start buying that too. Saylor orange-pilled the shit out of me in 2021.

Mitchal10

All on $MSTR

napein

I have 20/80 allocation to MSTR and BTC. As a percentage, this is 46.21% of liquid portfolio (including Roth and 401k) and 36.26% of total NW. I'm in my 30s with a kid and bought a home \~2 years ago. I am not planning on rebalancing and will DCA whenever fear and greed sentiment is low. I could see this becoming \~100% of the portfolio by 2034.

uncapchad

can't add any BTC ETFs to pensions here. If the fund has less than 15 members then you can add what you like but then the whole fund becomes taxable. MSTR as about as close as we can get to having some BTC exposure in pensions.

sentientchimpman

My IRA is about 85% S&P 500, 15% MSTR. Outside of that I'm about 50% btc, 50% stocks.

RevolutionaryPhoto24

I’m still trying to make more fiat to save in BTC through other trades and investments. So I hold a bit, but also some alts and various stocks, including MSTR and BTC tickers. I steadily transfer gains to bitcoin.

LuKeNuKuM

You could by MSTR instead?- know it's not the same but it's bitcoin by proxy. Your broker should accept a W-8BEN form to allow you to buy US shares.

TelevisionKey3891

80%, I also have some in BITX, the 2X Bitcoin ETF, it's great to load up on when Bitcoin has huge red days and sell during green days. I also own MSTR and IREN, which I bought around $5 a couple months ago and it soared all the way to $15 at one point since then.

MiguelLancaster

I don't care to do the actual calculations right now but something like: 85% Bitcoin in cold storage / 7% BTC ETFs / 4% MSTR / 3% Cash / 1% Other is probably pretty close so -- basically 96% bitcoin

Outrageous_Word_999

I mean, i am in btc companies like MSTR. MSTR is going to join the S&P 500 and i think is going to have a stock split in august. And it has gone up USD+1,050.525(153.33%) YTD

bbien12

100% BTC, 40% MSTR on leverage (both calls and puts pure short term, depends on which way the stock is going to scalp some premium and add to my BTC stack)

Freedom_58

0.5 BTC 10 MSTR Add more BTC (become a wholecoiner) over the summer. Something like that. Assuming you have zero exposure to Bitcoin.

Skhroomy

What's going on with MSTR? If I look at the chart it says it closed around 4h before closing time and after that it's gone straight down hill.

Current_Adeptness_34

You already have shown a ton of responsibility. I am fortunate to have like 10% of my investable funds in Bitcoin, mostly cold storage on Trezor with some ETF and MSTR stock. If I lost all of it, I’d be ok but far from happy. But I do not think zero is in play anymore. History tells us that the winters are hard, I largely rode this last one out but did some stupid things that I got out of before something bad happened. I’m mostly a stock investor and not a very good one. I have a fraction in physical gold and silver. I do think that Bitcoin has the best short term (and long term)mgrowth potential but I could not sleep with a large % in Bitcoin. However, at 21, I may have put a ton of the $100k into it if I had it. I agree with those who think the next 12 months could be huge, but I’m thinking maybe $120-$130K range not a lot more. You will learn your risk tolerance over time. I bought Bitcoin and the physical metals initially for diversification away from the traditional market. Now it’s a bit of an obsession. When I started accumulating, my wife said “you need a whole coin” though she doesn’t really get it. I’m glad she supported it. So get that whole coin, but I’d probably do it over time.

Yourlocalcafe

MSTR.

Spontaneous_Wood

MSTR and Bitcoin 50/50 split!

New-Visit-7386

Have you seen the dividend payouts on BITO. The only ETF that pays a monthly div. I received 2 dividends on BITO over last 2 months over 10%. And BITO also offers options. Up over 200% from options bought last week. Also up over 100% on MSTR. I leave my bag off line in cold wallet and trade BITO and MSTR. They are great if you know what your doing

Financial_Design_801

Hard working Main Street sat stackers here don’t have time to trade, just save in a hard asset with no counter party risk I keep 5% in MSTR because who else is getting 1% of the supply… long term hold imo

blueberryxxoo

I have MSTR calls. So far they're looking good!!

el_rico_pavo_real

Considering hammering MSTR

Sad-Performance3548

Buy MSTR

MinimalistMindset35

I’m 78% Bitcoin and 22% MSTR= 100+% Bitcoin allocation. I am currently managing my finances with a semi-Bitcoin Standard. My bank accounts are Bitcoin bank where I get satoshis back when I spend money. Basically I have optimized my life to move into a Bitcoin standard early to maximize the amount of satoshis I accumulate via first mover advantage. I became a Bitcoin maxi when I went down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and started researching what is money? That led to researching hard money, scarcity, technology, fiat, etc. There is 900T in value that exists, Bitcoin is going after it all. When you get it you get it. I have everything in Bitcoin because it is the only money that grows your monetary energy.

mehoart2

**if, and only if** MSTR doesn't change. BTC is not going away. MSTR could.

midnight-pixels

MSTR is leveraged BTC, a call option is leveraged on top of that. He’s trying to get 5x in 5 years. What is the correct high risk high reward scenario?

midnight-pixels

Actually if you’re Bitcoin only the answer is MSTR options. Zero or $1 mil. 50:50

Herseychris

Put it in all in my Merrill account (instant transfer from BoA). Was going to do 1/3 BITX, 1/3 BITB, 1/3 MSTR, but Merrill didn’t support bitcoin ETFs, so I dumped it all into MSTR. Up $50k in a day, but obviously if I had closed a week earlier I’d be up $250-300k. C’est la vie.

lordinov

Break above. Trump will speak about it next week (will cause a hype 100%). Then MSTR earnings. Then rate cuts. What else?

zooka19

Yeah I've decided to just stay with MSTR with 5% allocation in my tax adv.

Bobwindy

I'm just in MSTR rather than miners, MSTR performs better up 12% today Vs 2% at MARA. Bitcoin miners feel the effects of the halving on their profit

zooka19

Anyone here do crypto stocks? Got MSTR in my tax since in the UK we can't buy ETFs. Wondering if I should add MARA too, or if MSTR is enough.

viewmodeonly

MSTR +6% yummy

viewmodeonly

Good for me my MSTR order filled :)

Esoteric_Sleuth

We're still very early. No need to take unnecessary risks. Unless you would be playing with a smaller portion of your net worth, then go for it I suppose. With that being said, I would go all in on holding Bitcoin before I went all in on MSTR call options.

Gotmewrongang

Please convince me not to buy long calls on MSTR and buy BTC instead. I’m so tempted to go big or go home

Savik519

Japanese version of MSTR

Yourlocalcafe

Im in Canada. I just pretend my BTC and MSTR are in USD and at the end of the bull run I get an extra 35%.

Dudebro21000000

rookie ratio. Seriously though, do you have any bitcoin stonks? I have CORZ and MSTR. MSTR is outperforming BTC lately

Electrical_Fix_8745

[https://www.reddit.com/r/MSTR/comments/1e3zops/why\_is\_mstr\_basically\_trading\_at\_a\_2x\_premium\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MSTR/comments/1e3zops/why_is_mstr_basically_trading_at_a_2x_premium_to/)

el_rico_pavo_real

I’m about to go heavy on MSTR

analogOnly

* Actual Self Custody BTC * Spot Bitcoin ETF * MSTR or similar company whom is making Bitcoin their treasury asset. These are the assets to invest in, in order of priority, the first being the top priority and the last being least priority.

MiguelLancaster

I managed to get my father on well on his way to a whole coin starting several years ago, took until last year to get him trained on cold storage though My sister didn't even have a retirement account until earlier this year, and she's about to turn 40 I convinced her to go 50% target date index fund and 50% bitcoin ETFs (no real bitcoin, but for someone as financially ignorant as she is, I'll call it a win) My entire net worth, save for a few thousand in emergency cash, is in bitcoin. 90% cold storage, 10% ETFs and MSTR in my IRA

clicksanything

I also have a ton of btc and just dumped 15k into MSTR for the potential upside and ofc split. It’s a small portion of NW and so volatility is not an issue. Sounds like you’re in a similar position if youre already established w FBTC and BTC. I’d go for it. Best of luck. NFA.

el_rico_pavo_real

Maybe? Really more like one big gamble… capture MSTR gains short term to generate fiat.

el_rico_pavo_real

That is why I am kind of leaning MSTR in terms of raw short term gambling action, since i’ll never sell my BTC, and the ETF’s are also long term plays.

ProfessionalWelcome

MSTR is like leveraged Bitcoin the swings seem to be bigger.

cs_zer0

I do aswell, but can't help but feel like I left money out by having no MSTR exposure

cs_zer0

Can anyone here give me reasons why not just buy microstrategy's stock instead of BTC if im not gonna keep it in cold storage anyways and MSTR is outperforming the way it is and can be kept in a tax advantaged account

el_rico_pavo_real

Guys, gals, I know this place is a dumpster fire to come to for FA, except for the sage advice to buy and hodl Bitcoin. That being said, I have like $25K I want to put to work, a portion is going to BTC, but i’m torn on how to allocate the bulk… IBIT? MSTR? I already have a ton of FBTC and BTC… I like MSTR for the leveraged volatility and potential upside.. plus the split and dividend… keep in mind this is coming from a guy who has a healthy chunk of BTC, and a healthy DCA strategy… I want to basically turn this into more fiat in order to turn it into more BTC.. i’m leaning heavy towards MSTR…

lordinov

MSTR should buy more if not now in august or September before we take seriously off.

MagicCookiee

Good read https://www.kerrisdalecap.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/MicroStrategy-MSTR.pdf

Cointuitive

I long ago discovered that I’m hopeless at timing the market, so I don’t trade. With both stocks, and bitcoin, I just buy and hold. I’m firmly committed to hold my bitcoin and MSTR until at least 2032/33 If I need to sell any stocks before 2032 I’ll sell some of the other stocks that I have.

Cointuitive

I bought MSTR on March 5. Since then bitcoin is down 6.3%, and my MSTR are up 32.8%

RandomA55h013

It does make sense if you believe the price of BTC is asymmetric in nature and that the leverage creates even more asymmetry right at the time of the cycle when the greatest gains are expected. As I said in my previous post, I view it as a more short term position than BTC. I recognise there is more risk in MSTR than BTC, but I do feel that there's a great chance my MSTR out performs my BTC in most time frames between 3-12 months from now.

SaneLad

As someone who has been trading stocks and commodities with leverage for years, I am telling you your theory makes no sense. Just because a fund is leveraged does not mean it should trade at a premium. Leverage has no intrinsic premium. It just amplifies gains and losses. In fact people can easily trade Bitcoin with leverage themselves. Many exchanges offer it and there is even a leveraged Bitcoin ETF now (BTCL). If anything, MSTR should trade at a discount to NAV because of the lower liquidity, lack of ability to redeem shares for Bitcoin, and need to trust the management. Buying MSTR at a premium to NAV makes no sense from a fundamental perspective and it will eventually trade back to NAV once enough people wise up to the fact.

RandomA55h013

Yeah, it's buying BTC at a premium, which initially prevented me from buying any of their shares.... this was until I realised he is using leverage that most people simply cannot get access to and this changes the earning potential significantly. From what I can understand, MSTR will outperform BTC during a bull run and underperform it during a significant correction. I will probably sell more than half of my MSTR next year when I think the top is in whereas I will hold more than half of my BTC. I have more BTC than MSTR, current value ratio of about 5:1 which I am comfortable with.

DefiantAbalone1

Tesla & MSTR are the only 2 non crypto related companies on this list, I wonder who the next large (non crypto related) company will be who will add btc to their treasury, will this be what ignites the next bull run....

Ehud_Muras

Good news. MSTR will be doing to 10-1 stock split on August 8. Will be easier for you to accumulate 100 shares.

MinimalistMindset35

Coinbase custodianship doesn’t worry me. First of all, there is a 99% chance it’s multi-sig so hackers won’t be able to steal it. Outside of multisig, if Coinbase gets hacked and 90% of their Bitcoin is stolen then the price of Bitcoin will rise because it becomes MORE scarce. If you’re an ETF holder whose Bitcoin was stolen you need to read the terms and conditions to know if you will be made whole. I’m not in the ETF game. I’m only in Bitcoin and MSTR so I’m not worried about Coinbase custody.

lordinov

MSTR will be 300 (post shares split) by next year this time. If not 400-500.

twerk_girl21

That explains the MSTR bounce.

ElPeroTonteria

So, MSTR calls eh?...

SnooMemesjellies7657

If u want a “leveraged” bitcoin trade without quite the same risk you can check out MicroStrategy (MSTR). I hold BTC in cold storage and DCA, while buying a bit of MSTR here and there as well

Temporary_Ad_5947

Sell puts ATM on MSTR after the split

Ghost_Rider223

Second this. HODL MSTR for 401k BTC exposure.

flog_fr

Also regarding MSTR, I believe there's some BTC that are not self-custody isn't it ?

clicksanything

Me too. MSTR, FBTC, and bitcoin in cold storage. I consider myself diversified lol.

Nice-t-shirt

Nearly my entire networh is in Bitcoin, TQQQ and MSTR. In reality, they are all the same trade. No point in being diversified if I’m not going to get rich before 80.

biba8163

> Tell me you don't understand how MSTR works, without telling me you don't understand how MSTR works. MSTR issues debt to buy BTC --> BTC Increase, MSTR Marketcap Increases --> MSTR Issues Equity to buy BTC --> BTC Increase, MSTR Marketcap Increase, Weight in Indices Increases --> MSTR Issues more equity to buy BTC --> Rinse and Repeat Ad Infinitum This could go on for a long while but Saylor has not found an infinite money glitch in the universe. At some point this will go wrong. Tell me what happens when there is a long periods of malaise of BTC price is going consistently down Tell me what happens if/when when shareholders put a board in place to change this strategy and they decide to liquidate BTC creating a cascading downward spiral. Tell me what happens when when Saylor dies and the shareholders and board pivot. Tell me what happens when other companies like the one in Japan start mimicking this strategy and one of them fails. We deride banks with their risky financial engineering and exotic derivative financial products what eventually collapse and put the entire global economy at risk. We deride shitcoins claiming to create DEFI where all they do is borrow with leverage or earn APY on some swap platform by by providing liquidty and yield farm worthless tokens. What MicroStrategy is doing is also some degenerate financial engineering but a lot of Bitcoin has become such a religion that you cannot be critical of Saylor.

Oheson

Tell me you don't understand how MSTR works, without telling me you don't understand how MSTR works.

RandomA55h013

I have some expenses next year, moving back to my home country after three years of travel and will need to buy a new car/furniture etc plus living expenses for a while. It is also a hedge against BTC not performing the way I expect. I will not sell more than half of my BTC. Would consider selling all of my ETH and SOL, but probably will sell 60-70% of each of those. Although I believe in BTC, I would never put too much net worth into any one asset. If you remove my home equity I currently have more than half of my liquid net worth in BTC, then more in ETH and SOL, and more in MSTR. I think releasing some of that when the time is right is fine. Not selling yet though, in fact, I added more BTC yesterday.

Remyleboo99

Not a bad move for MSTR! Stock splits in theory don’t do anything fundamentally different apart from June you more shares for the 1 you have, but in practice can move the price up, this has happened especially in the past few years!

Shiznoz222

Lot of assumptions there. Anyways, there is additional counterparty risk with MSTR. Especially with the impending derivatives offering that is under SEC review for MSTR which is set to be one of the most volatile, if not THE most volatile, derivatives that are currently on the market which (as we've seen with btc and the rise of "paper" btc) could also impact performance of MSTR substantially. If that still doesn't make sense to you I'm not sure what to tell ya. Good luck either way.

RandomA55h013

It's not a justification, those are two separate facts, You pay a premium when you buy right now because the market cap of the company is a lot more than the amount of BTC they own multiplied by the price of BTC. If BTC does well as we all expect if we are considering buying, then due to the leverage it is likely to outperform BTC from this point. Meaning, if BTC was to 3x from here to it's cycle peak there is a very good chance MSTR will more than 3x at it's own cycle peak from this point. If that still doesn't make sense to you I'm not sure what to tell ya. Good luck either way.

RandomA55h013

I have some MSTR to go with some actual BTC. I like MSTR. Even though at first look it looks like you're just buying BTC at a huge premium, when you look at the graph for MSTR it definitely out performed BTC movements. I believe this is mainly due to the leverage Michael Saylor is using. Michael Saylor seems like a smart guy as well, so having him at the helm is most likely a good thing. Go get some!

el_rico_pavo_real

Word on the street is MSTR is working on financing to buy Germany’s Bitcoin.

RandomA55h013

I'm in the same boat... waiting for 51k, not sure if it'll get there... money been sitting in exchange waiting to go. Also wanna buy some more MSTR if that drops below 1.2k which it will if BTC reaches 51k.

Profil3r

P ha, that’s because I was dictating. Sorry about that. I was saying… I do have a very small amount of other coins, and as far as stocks goes, a very small amount of other stocks with the exception of MSTR. 80% of my stock portfolio is in bitcoin or bitcoin related stocks.

Profil3r

Do you have a very small amount and three other coins, and a very, very small amount in a few other stocks with the exception of MSTR. 🤓

IndubitablePrognosis

Right now put in as much as you are willing to lose, or won't panic sell if it drops 75 percent.  DCA is for people who don't fully understand what Bitcoin is about. Looking at dollar "price" every day will just give you years of stress. I have a VERY unpopular strategy of only using proxies (ETF and MSTR) except for relatively small amounts. NYKNYB is fine, but many people lose their crypto this way. I'm waiting for covenants before holding large amounts myself. 

uwu_owo_whats_this

I’m also short MSTR 🤝

CUbuffGuy

Room below to 52k where i expect to crab while. In the meantime I'm very short MSTR. The premium is still indicating a bull market despite the sentiment shifting. I expect it to crash even if BTC finds a bottom unless it goes back to 60k+. Will invest proceeds back into BTC. It's nice to gain some leverage on the short side though in situations like these. I feel like I'm winning either way.

Narrow-Surround-8416

I have Bitcoin but I also have Roth IRA I buy IBIT & MSTR .

PotentialAny1869

You and me both, I still have a full coin worth of BTC exposure through MSTR and FBTC. I won't bet against the corruption making "price go up". But the only bitcoin I will ever self custody and use is BCH. It is the only bitcoin that has a chance at being used as originally intended.

CUbuffGuy

You’re so sure it’s headed up. I have 20k in MSTR puts over this weekend, pretty sure we head lower. If only being sure of things made it so.

suuperfli

is MSTR gambling

lordinov

Is half my money in BTC and half in MSTR considered 100% in btc?

printscreenshot

He collateralized MSTR to buy BTC, if BTC drops MSTR would drop too, counterparty would require either more MSTR stock or $$

F101crypto

Most of my MSTR.. yes.. but prefer to hold my bitcoin

Fromasalesman

Better use of leverage, more volatile swings but you make more. If you can find a better leveraged crypto BTC ETF let me know, also they own 1% of crypto verified already and they are working on blockchain tech for payment processing so you get a sweet piece of side action, whereas ETF isn’t really doing much but being a brainless bank. I’ve swung MSTR multiple times most recently the move from $1k-$1.4K got out before it went slightly higher but that was literally a 2 week trade for me so it wasn’t any love lost on my part.