GBTC

Different-Hyena-8724

About half. Was already decent enough from stocks about 10 years ago. That allowed me to be risky with BTC. Been all in on ETF's and GBTC since their inception.

GeneralZex

It should be possible to do a direct transfer without selling. Basically Vanguard transfers the stock directly to Fidelity. Start on Fidelity’s side and see what transfer options they have, they should be able handle it. In my case I used Robinhood and they handled it all and I got direct transfers of GBTC.

GeneralZex

There was a time they let me buy GBTC. Then the other ETFs got approved and they didn’t allow buying or selling of GBTC. I sold portions of my other funds moved the cash and GBTC off of there and onto RH. My other funds there have done “well enough” and it offers returns that don’t require selling anything on my part. With all the companies starting Bitcoin treasuries even regular stock funds will have exposure eventually.

AppearanceAgile2575

Combination of cold storage and traditional investment accounts in the form of GBTC. I keep a some on my hot wallet as I DCA/accumulate.

fosteju

Grayscale spun off a portion of the bitcoin held in the GBTC Trust funds and “awarded” shares of their new BTC ETF to existing GBTC holders. That’s where the massive “underperformance” stems from. As a long term holder of GBTC in my IRA accounts I already investigated this thoroughly, lol

arBettor

Futures ETFs track bitcoin much worse anyway due to the cost of rolling futures contracts. If OP is looking at those instead of spot ETFs, that's the problem. Only spot ETFs will closely track bitcoin's price, and only since they were actual ETFs (so old GBTC info will also not be useful since it used to trade at a huge premium or discount).

BoomerSooner-SEC

I just eyeballed GBTC and YTD it’s about a point and half low but I assume that’s expenses (GBTC is expensive).

LtDrogo

Many of us work at companies where our Fidelity 401K accounts can be linked into a Brokeragelink option where we can invest in a wide variety of ETFs, including many Bitcoin ETFs. I had GBTC in my 401k for years, and converted into a Fidelity's bitcoin ETF after the SEC approval.

Smoking-Coyote06

>Noob question: this level of concentration is not “dangerous”? Depends on your perspective. Strategy has less than GBTC at its peak, and less than IBIT now. The concentration is like 2%. >What if he suddenly sell big % of his position? Short answer. More selling pressure means price would go down giving more supply for buyers. But Why would he sell a big % of his position? If you listen to a significant amount of his talks you'll understand that he's a bitcoin maxi. Btc is the exit. He doesn't consider the bitcoin a "position." He considers it pristine digital property that it finite and that is "going up forever, Laura"

BigAcorn1770

Paste? Lol. I've had 100 percent of my IRA and ROTH portfolio in GBTC for 6 years, 10xing 6 figures to 7 figures, all without Paste..just good ole THC. A year ago Grayscale arbitrarily moved 10 percent of all shareholder funds out of GBTC to seed the Mini Trust. And it's from the mini trust accounts that I will begin drawing from soon, as I begin real estate projects. Conclusion: it's not paste, bro. It's THC for the Win.

alpha247365

I’m long IBIT and BITX, hedged using options. GBTC merely following, eg, fund inflows and outflows. GBTC beating most ETFs, so the yearly -1.5% is negligible for those who it, it has $20B AUM for a reason. Whales own it, mostly.

craftadvisory

GBTC? Lay off the pasts

Fun-Sundae4060

BTC not GBTC

BlightedErgot32

GBTC??? hahahaha look at the expense ratio…

alpha247365

**IBIT, BITX, GBTC** Might wanna load up, train about to leave again after a brief pause for a week or two.

heavyonthesauce

IBIT, FBTC, GBTC, BITB. All good.

lincoln-pop

But if himans hold most of the supply, how can the rest of the galaxy use it as a galactic currency unless they have more but then we only value bitcoin because of the limited supply. So if we find out there is actually way more bitcoin than what we thought then we would not value it as much. But if it is actually a different but similar currency then we will have to switch to GBTC which is not our BTC so we have to switch it anyways and GBTC it is not the BTC we are used to (GBTC is probably much less volitile). So then there is no benefit of getting us used to BTC before switching us to GBTC compared with switching us from any other currency.

cyger

This is the reason years ago, when leaving a company with a 401, I rolled it into an IRA. That IRA allowed me to get into the trust GBTC 10 years ago - that 3% or so I put in has dominated my portfolio in the last few years.

Ok-Sympathy9768

This is the reason for many.. considering nearly 25% of all coins mined so far have been lost forever ( that is crazy to think about). a lot of people are afraid of losing their money because of lost passwords, or being stolen by either a cybersecurity mishap or a wrench attack. Not everyone has the technical ability to set up and run a node or do self custody or do cold storage but they still recognize the value of bitcoin .. there are a lot of people who trust an etf like ibit or ark or fidelity or GBTC more then they themselves.. not your keys not your coin..yup… but in order for mass adoption to happen there has to be some ease of use similar to historical computer technology

stock_momma

In my fidelity Roth IRA I hold BTC, FBTC, and GBTC up 700% bought GBTC at $10

SouthernGoal4836

Not a noob to bitcoin but I’ve only ever bought the ETFs and GBTC back in 2017 before ETFs were around, but I’ve still not pulled the trigger on self custody or researched it much. I understand why you should be fee show your seed phrase but how is this seed phrase valuable if you don’t know the wallet address? Which is just as complicated as the seed phrase to guess? Someone also said the same thing about how it’s dumb to stamp your seed phrase on metal Because If someone finds it your bitcoin is gone. I’m not understanding that without also knowing the corresponding wallet address. And if the funds can be recovered and transferred with just the seed phrase that seems like a small security risk since you can no longer “keep the lock and the key” in separate locations so to speak.

Give_Life_Meaning

If I were in this situation. I would sit on the GBTC and switch to start stacking BTC via DCA. GBTC is priced in USD but it is not USD. Someday the GBTC may be priced in BTC or some other digital coin used for daily transactional use.

cpt_charisma

You really just have to worry about GBTC collapsing. If that's a concern, get out. If not, don't worry about it. You could also call your congressman and tell him you want to be able to withdraw Bitcoin from GBTC. The only reason you can't right now is because the regulators say so.

Seriousoldman

You should compare liquidity/typical trading spreads and annual fees for the several ETF. (Your is great on the fee side, but not so great on the liquidity...) Apart from that they are all equivalent. (In my case, I used to have GBTC but changed into IBIT when the US ETFs were launched...)

discip1e-1

If the dollar collapses what you will see if your bitcoin jump up in value. This is a common thing in countries where the economy collapses and commodities explode up in value. If the dollar collapses your bitcoin will go up to $500k or ! million. I suspect the value of bitcoin held by GBTC will explode up in value as well. Just my 2 cents worth. I'm no financial expert just experienced in life...

RockHardnParty

First and foremost, you have to realize that the dollar has already "collapsed". It will continue to do so and is able to lose 99% of it's current value (compared to Bitcoin) again. GBTC is not Bitcoin. MSTR is not Bitcoin. Bitcoin ETFS are not Bitcoin. The only way to ensure future access to Bitcoin wealth is through self-custody. Check out BTC sessions as he has many videos and tutorials of how to set up various Bitcoin wallets. If you decide to change out your GBTC for Bitcoin now, yes you'll have a tax hit on the gains, but the reality is you'll have a smaller hit now than in the future. At the very least, stop buying it and start DCAing actual Bitcoin to a child storage solution.

Ok-Sympathy9768

I agree with you having some level of diversification is needed. Like having a house (I never factor the house into the net worth because we always need a place to live), but for me diversification includes having at the very least 1-2 years safety net of cash that would cover all expenses, and gold equivalent to minimum of 3 months living expenses, some stock market exposure say through a retirement accounts maybe indexed and some self directed individual stocks , and no debt (other than mortgage if the interest rate was under 3%, basically free money with the ability to pay off the mortgage at any time).. a maxi would say liquidate it all, rent a studio and invest everything in BTC…that will never happen…also I do not own bitcoin directly but for me I believe I have enough bitcoin exposure. This goes back awhile to when my bank threatened to flag and close all my accounts for suspicion of possible fraudulent and illegal activity when I asked about wiring 9 thousand to buy a little over 50 BTC from an exchange ( I wanted 100 BTC but I thought if I tried wire transfers greater then 10k I would get flagged :/ )…a year or so later I was finally able to get my BTC exposure and growing tax free(thank goodness for GBTC back in the day)!!! So now I think I am coming full circle and want to learn about setting up a node and actually buying the real thing.. but it’s so complicated the whole utxo thing and the whole cold storage thing, which I believe is the only way to go.. but now I plan to do this soon and contribute to the network by setting up a node.

Ok-Sympathy9768

Agreed, diversification is important..can’t just stack sats… diversifying with IBIT, FBTC, GBTC, MSTR, etc may be beneficial .. of course this is not financial advice

cyger

This post is what convinced me to get in back in 2015 - I got in in my IRA with the fund GBTC back in 2015 - had to pay about $400 for $300 worth of BTC at the time because the shares were overvalued - Also because GBTC had 2% fees I lost about 18% of my BTC. Last year I converted that GBTC to two of the much lower fees ETFs. - My IRA is looking great Think it was on reddit: > Coinmarketswot (Sept 2015) 1, 2008-2011 ($ 0.001) : Genesis, nerds convincing nerds to code and build Bitcoin by the White Paper of Satoshi Nakamoto 2, 2011-2014 ($ 100.00): TEA, Technical Early Adaptors, first universities adopting master programs, pioneering tech companies join and such business angels 3, 2014-2015 ($ >100.00): TEM, Technical Early Majority, All serious tech companies and serious tech universities are on board of Bitcoin 4, 2015-2016 ($ 1,000.00 - 10,000.00): IEA, Investors Early Adaptors, Non Tech Private Commercial industries enters the Bitcoin Ecosystem 5, 2016-2017($ 10,000.00 - 100,000.00): IEM, Investors Early Majority, Public and Government Backed funding and investments on International (Stock) Exchanges

Extension-Article174

why YBTC instead of ones that actually hold BTC like GBTC or IBIT? and BITO seems the be the more popular btc covered call etf. Im not too saavy with BTC etfs. I hold a little BITO and GBTC personally but mainly hold BTC in cold storage. I was thinking of adding more to by BTC based ETFs.

Sassylyz

Yep. Did you switch to another ETF though yet? The GBTC one was killing us in fees.

LowCalligrapher2455

A better deal was buying GBTC before the ETF’s launched and was trading at a huge discount. I can believe how cheap it was back then. Made over 10x so far.

Sassylyz

I am incredibly grateful to all the people that panic sold so I could buy GBTC so cheap

Sassylyz

I got GBTC at like 10 bucks (50% discount NAV) which I think is the equivalent of maybe 12,000 he he he

8A8

And? IBIT doesn't include FBTC, GBTC, ARKB, BITB, BTCC, BITC, HODL, BTCE, BITW, BTCO, BRRR, QBTC, or BTCW. (among many others)

KenduInuArmy

I Have 1 Bitcoin and A Lot Of $GBTC

roadwaywarrior

Rolled over my first job 401k of about $45k into a Roth IRA, was in my mid 20s. Dumped every penny into GBTC. I figured it was a gamble, but I rationalized it as the price of a decent car. I didn’t need a car. Kept selling at near highs and buying back in at near lows. I’m up 1422%

Amazing_Giraffe_7464

I picked FBTC because they dont use coinbase as custody. Your best option is the pick the one that has a fee structure you're okay with. The two largest bitcoin ETFs are currently IBIT and FBTC. Followed by the already populated GBTC that used to be the first trust. The rest are small-time since release. Take that for what you will. https://etfdb.com/themes/bitcoin-etfs/

Secret_Operative

What penalty did you pay for putting your IRA into bitcoin? I've been in GBTC and then FBTC since it was an option, and my IRA is so up it's insane.

alpha247365

**IBIT, BITX, GBTC* Load up folks! Rocket is merely launching.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin ETFs saw $422 million in inflows on May 1, with BlackRock's IBIT leading at $351 million. Total Bitcoin ETF assets under management (AUM) reached $112 billion, driven by Bitcoin's price surge. BlackRock's IBIT holds $58 billion in AUM, while Fidelity's FBTC and Bitwise's BITB gained $29.5 million and $38.4 million, respectively. Grayscale's GBTC reversed prolonged outflows with $16 million in net inflows. The ETF market is evolving, with competitive pressures growing among issuers like Valkyrie and VanEck. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Secret_Operative

A long time ago I put my retirement accounts into GBTC. Not ideal, but holy shit it turned a nothing-burger pair of accounts into legit retirement ready monsters in just a few years. Then Bitcoin ETFs came along and I converted it all to FBTC.  It's still growing like crazy, and the few people I know the same age as me with IRAs and Roths like to compare numbers, they can't even comprehend the growth of my accounts in past years. That is all separate from my income investments, and separate again from cold stored Bitcoin. I already don't work, and it's not my Bitcoin or my IRA keeping me free. One day maybe.

Nice_Collection5400

Fair point, GBTC skews things. Let’s back them out completely. Now it’s 2x inflows of mined BTC during the period (not 3x).

harvested

They hold it. You're forgetting GBTC existed for years?

LNCrizzo

I made a killing buying GBTC at a discount.

mcr55

Every solution besides holding your own coins has been disastrous for the past 15 years. Mt.Gox- RIP BlockFi-RIP GBTC- Lost double digit % FTX - RIP HODLing your own coins is the only long term solution.

oprahfinallykickedit

GBTC baby

ResponsibilitySea327

It is still early. But IMHO, long term MSTR will closer to an ETF/trust in terms of valuation with no NAV premium like GBTC before it. Possibly a discount once it faces real headwinds, again like GBTC did before it. In that sense it will be forced to be more like TradFi. At some point investors will want their skin back and Saykor (or his successor) will have to make it more investor friendly when it comes to owning the underlying BTC.

iamez221

Also interesting from the article: For the year to date, Bitcoin ETF flows remain positive at $215.2 million, despite the recent outflow trend. IBIT leads with $2.3 billion in net inflows for the year, while GBTC has experienced the largest outflows at $1.23 billion.

RANEDJ

Check Out $GBTC $BTC & Cheers

ShotgunShane286

GBTC (Green Bitcoin) hasn’t been rugged. Been out for a while but people keep buying into coins with high supply and getting rugged and just generally not understanding crypto or money at all. I do not care about use case or coins with a “community” Shib will go nowhere near $1. Marketcap and supply is what we should all look for in a crypto currency. Green Bitcoin was thought to be a scam in its pre-sale. And while it did lose 90% of its value in the months after its release it does have a staking website up and running and is tradable in your wallet. Currently around 11cents per coin. With a 20.81 million supply. (Roughly same as actual bitcoin) do the math. Not advice or saying people should buy it. Its just got potential is all to be roughly worth what bitcoin is due to its low coin count. Just needs a better marketing team.

Freedom_58

You are right that you have exposure to 1 BTC. But to be a whole coiner, you must at least own 1 Bitcoin. You can have .3 BTC in Coinbase, .5 in a cold wallet, and .2 in another wallet. Then you're a whole coiner. I have shares in MSTR FBTC IBIT GBTC(long story), etc. But I would categorize them as Bitcoin proxies. But I am a whole coiner because I do own at least 1 Bitcoin. Hope that helps.

jawni

because markets aren't perfectly efficient, if you think that's bad, greyscale's BTC trust (formerly GBTC pre-crypto ETFs) was pretty much never at it's NAV.

GrouchyAd9824

I bought it the minute it was released and wouldn't hold BTC any other way after GBTC converted. I used to buy GBTC in the bear markets for the discount and get around 2x leverage selling it in bull markets, but that's not a thing anymore. I've done self custody, exchanges, whatever since 2014. ETFs are the way to go IMO. Now I can only get nervous over the price rather than my holdings being lost or stolen.

Holicron78

The OP is obviously from Europe and we don't have the same prices as US * *VanEck Bitcoin ETN* (Xetra) has **1.00% fee** * *Fidelity Physical Bitcoin ETP* (Xetra) has **0.35% fee** * There is no GBTC in Europe The only one that challenged BlackRock after their launch was *WisdomTree Physical Bitcoin* (Xetra) with similar **0.15% fee** until the end of year

guns_n_limeritas

Yes. And not only that, but the market investments going up while everything else is tanking, are BTC ETFs such as GBTC (Greyscale), and BTC based companies like MSTR (Micro Strategy).

5FenwickRd

Central banks have been buying Gold. No I’m not a gold bug. The worldwide physical gold market $5-6 trillion. Bitcoin is still a peripheral asset as far as world banks are concerned. I do own IBIT and bought GBTC before it was an ETF.

ResponsibilitySea327

If you think about why they buy and sell -- there are two components. The number of outstanding shares of FBTC (e.g. demand of FBTC) that is irrespective of price -- people can buy and sell FBTC all day even if BTC doesn't move an inch. And then there is the component of the value of those shares that are a component of both number of issued shares and the underlying BTC/cash holdings. FBTC's prospectus is to match the performance of their proprietary average BTC price index -- basically a composite index of prices across multiple exchanges. To match that price, they have to buy and sell BTC as well as manage the formation or redemption of FBTC shares. As another poster mentioned, these are done in baskets (of 25,000 shares). Again the aim is match BTC performance. FBTC does self custody which is different than most other ETFs (GBTC used to self custody but now uses Coinbase Custody). They own approximately 195,888 BTC as of yesterday. In many ways it is cheaper to buy via a low cost ETF and avoid Exchange or DeFi fees which can be substantial. Transactional use of BTC is on a decline (with speculative use well up) so investing via an ETF is a good way to go

donmulatito

Actual banks 🤣 coinbase an actual bank? Or you mean the actual banks that caused all other financial crisis in the history of the world? There will always be people who push the envelope, or like subprime mortgages the whole industry pushing the envelope. What happened there? Why didn't the interest cover their losses? SBF's downfall was not that he lent too much, its was that the hedge funds he lent to stopped paying back their loans. Most of this was due to those hedge funds losing their ass on the GBTC arbitrage as the market started to turn.

3Puttz

I have moved all my stock holdings across my Roth, 401k and HSA into FBTC, IBIT, MSTR, and IBIT calls. I have private equity on the side and my wife’s 401k and Roth are mostly in traditional equities. I’m like 85% btc but combined we are weighted at 65% btc and btc related equities. I didn’t do it all at once though. Started with a small amount of GBTC and MSTR back in the day around 2021.

arioch376

Timing the market is dumb, but boy does it feel good. Finally sold off my GBTC I bought right before the etfs went live because inexplicably there was still a discount. Moved the cash over to an exchange to buy some genuine corn. When all was said and done sold at 90k, bought back at 78k. Feels good man.

bittenbycoin

For the time being it seems similar to the first few weeks after the ETFs were approved, bitcoin price spiked a bit then went down more than 20% from that spike, people were shaking there heads watup? they were pointing to GBTC as the culprit but others bought what GBTC sold so idk, but I wouldn't be shocked by a big turnaround in the not too distant future, or maybe after more than 2 years of up and sideways from 15k to 109k it's time for a deep breather, clear out some clutter time? Not financial advice.

Smile_And_Dance

I will “cash out” when they declare a capital gains holiday that applied to GBTC. I will sell it all and promptly reinvest it in the Bitcoin ETF with the lowest fee rate. Grayscale really needs to lower that rate. Just a matter of time before all their “lock ins” sell for lower rates.

Smile_And_Dance

How might this impact bitcoin ETFs? Would they also be capital gains tax free if held beyond 1 year? If so, GBTC is screwed, as everyone will sell and buy lower fee funds.

BottomTimer_TunaFish

I was able to long the big coins with leveraged ETFs, not on margin, during last week's crash using proceeds from selling GBTC at 108k Bitcoin and 17x profit from Palantir. It's retribution day for those who bought the dip.

kpooo7

YES, As a thank you on this dip I bought into IBIT vs. Grayscale GBTC in my 401, well and their fees are a bargain for now…

BottomTimer_TunaFish

Since the price touched down at 82k, I'm thinking anywhere between 82k-79k could be the bottom. I'm still up 6x on GBTC for this bull cycle. Just bought the dip by getting into BITU (2x lev ETF). Whether or not 82k is the bottom of this crash, this is where bulls would buy the dip.

Ok-Sympathy9768

Yup..dealing with banks can be a whole lotta BS. Happened to me on vacation and with major purchases… what is fucking nuts is the more responsible you are with your finances and the more money you have.. the more you are at risk of losing access to your money..it has to with software/ai monitoring for fraud…what a gigantic pain in the ass.. Gotten blocked from accessing my bag and it really was annoying. Best thing to do is use multiple institutions + have multiple cc processors ( example have at least 3 different cc processors one visa, one MC, one Amex or JCB.. example if a possible ai generated fraud alert pops up on one visa it will hit all your visas) + if married keep your finances separated… same thing with BTC..why have all your exposure in one place/ or single cold wallet? I ask myself what’s more likely to happen me lose keys or one of the institutions like blackrock, fidelity, GBTC, or arc losing them??? Back in the day GBTC made it so easy to invest and get bitcoin exposure.. buying shares was super easy in a tax advantaged account .. felt a lot safer too.. literally a couple keystrokes in the retirement account and bam I just bought shares equivalent to 10+ BTC at like around $5/share.. worry free…. And DCA was also easier.. at this point if the shtf with the ETFs.. say like an ftx .. It would probably crash Bitcoin .. the ETFs are the key to mass adoption.. which brings us full circle… spreading risk includes have a some in CS because an you really trust institutions .. but I am too much of a Fucktard to figure out how to do CS .. so I rely on institutions..

blyatspinat

GBTC, it has utility and is very undervalued

Financial_Design_801

Goldman Sachs has $2.3 billion in Bitcoin ETF exposure, per 13F SEC filings today. - IBIT: $1.9b - FBTC: $374m - GBTC: $3.6m Up from $710m in Q4 last year 👀 https://x.com/julian__fahrer/status/1889396972173533325?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

CressMysterious8401

If you want crypto/Bitcoin exposure and to get paid while having exposure, you may want to research and consider converting some of your Bitcoin into a covered call Bitcoin ETF that pays a yield. For Bitcoin, the GBTC ETF is one strategy. If you want more leverage, MSTY is a MSTR covered call ETF with MSTR/Microstrategy/Strategy is essentially a Bitcoin holding company. Note that I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advise. Also, covered call ETF yields/dividends are generally taxed at income tax rates. Finally, these are fairly new financial instruments that carry as much risk as crypto.

Ok_Firefighter4282

I didn't know GBTC has been around that long, TIL.

watch-nerd

Some of it leaves via BTC ETF sales and that doesn't get rotated into alts, but goes completely off chain into Trad Fi assets. When I sold some GBTC in my Roth IRA (tax free gains), I rotated that into stocks.

H2crypt0

Tariffs may have some contribution, but we have to remember that this highly volatile (crypto) market can be easily influenced by various external factors, such as global economic conditions, geopolitical tensions (tariffs), and investor sentiment. The current market is experiencing a downturn due to a combination of factors. A strong US dollar, fueled by higher-than-expected US retail sales and a rise in US Treasury yields, is exerting selling pressure on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Additionally, liquidations in the crypto market have led to a surge of sell-offs across the derivatives market, with over $137 million in long positions being liquidated in a 24-hour period. This sudden liquidation, coupled with a lack of buying pressure, has negatively impacted crypto market prices. Other factors contributing to the decline include the impact of crypto spot ETFs and GBTC activities, as well as regulatory uncertainty and delays in policy decisions concerning the cryptocurrency market.

probabletrump

I started at 50% three years ago with GBTC in my Roth. Since then it's floated between 50% and 75%. I will admit I occasionally peel a little off to buy stock in an aggressive tech company. My portfolio has largely been built on the back of bitcoin. It's quadrupled since I made the decision to invest three years ago.

moonRekt

I went for GBTC ETHE and GDLC when they were at a 35% or so discount, at least Grayscales make sense to me

Extra_Supermarket_29

In hong kong and china, we cannot buy btc directly, since the government ban all the larger trading platforms such as coinbase/ binance etc. government only provide very small platforms under their control. They also banned all Btc etf such as Ybtc, IBIT, GBTC We only can buy MSTR and BITO

AdamFitri2005

Have we gotten GBTC's numbers for yesterday, on farside it hasn't updated it yet

RemarkableShape8137

Bought 20 in April 2019 @ 4800 in a Roth BitIRA. USB key was kept in vault literally guarded by armed security guards in Fkn Vegas. 💩 in pants everyday  thinking about it. Sold all in March 2021 @61,000. Tranfered cash to personal Roth , sat on it for awhile then purchased  Closed end fund GBTC at 50% discount when btc fell to 17k in Jan 23. After GBTC converted to spot ETF the discount was gone and instantly doubled in value and then btc hit 69k again in Mar 24 Sold it all. Bought 42,000 shares of FBTC in Sept 24 @48 when btc was 56k . Sold 20 k shares yesterday at 106. Will hold on the remaining 21k shares until 2030. The key take for all of you is that everything was tax free. I strongly advise you put as much as you can afford in Roth IRA, convert a portion of your 401k to traditional ira then convert that to ROTH. Your older self will be skn ur younger selfs dck when u turn 59 1/2 and sitting on millions$$$$

flutter180

easily google/chatgpt-able information: 1. **Tesla** \- Tesla announced in **February 2021** that it had purchased **$1.5 billion** worth of Bitcoin and would begin accepting Bitcoin as payment for its cars. 2. **MicroStrategy** \- Led by CEO Michael Saylor, MicroStrategy aggressively adopted Bitcoin as its **primary treasury reserve asset**. \- By 2021, MicroStrategy had purchased **over 100,000 BTC**, investing billions and encouraging other companies to consider Bitcoin for treasury management. 3. **Square (now Block, Inc.)** \- Square, led by Jack Dorsey, invested **$50 million** in Bitcoin in late 2020 and expanded its position in early 2021. \- Square’s Cash App also supported Bitcoin transactions, further enabling mainstream adoption. 4. **PayPal** \- PayPal allowed its users to **buy, hold, and sell Bitcoin** (and other cryptocurrencies) directly on its platform starting in **late 2020**, but 2021 saw an expansion into allowing crypto payments at millions of merchants. 5. **Visa and Mastercard** \- Both **Visa** and **Mastercard** announced initiatives in 2021 to integrate cryptocurrency into their payment networks. \- Visa, for instance, began settling transactions using USDC (a stablecoin), while Mastercard announced partnerships with crypto companies to offer crypto payment cards. 6. **Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley** \- These major financial institutions began offering **Bitcoin investment products** to their high-net-worth clients. \- Goldman Sachs also reopened its cryptocurrency trading desk in **2021** after shutting it down in 2018. 7. **Coinbase IPO** \- Coinbase, one of the largest cryptocurrency exchanges, went public via a direct listing on NASDAQ in April 2021. 8. **Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC)** \- Grayscale’s Bitcoin Trust saw immense institutional interest as a way for investors to gain exposure to Bitcoin without directly holding it.

jorgehn12

I started buying GBTC since it was below $8

BoomerSooner-SEC

It’s just simple. There are fees but I’m just not tech savvy enough to navigate all this self storage stuff. (I’m sort of old). I’ve had GBTC for a few years now. The fees are high but I’m sort of trapped.

OffThread

Yes, every single one of you should have a small amount going into any of the bitcoin ETFs within a ROTH 401k. GBTC has the largest fee, but their all 'comparable' beyond that.

cyger

That is what I did in 2015, well maybe it was 3% of my IRA, I put into GBTC. Now it makes up 80% of my portfolio. Best financial move of my life so far, holding on through all the ups and downs.

Ok-Sympathy9768

🙄… yeah …get BTC exposure via BTC ETFs, before that GBTC and make millions in a Roth taxed advantaged account .. terrible idea…

Herosinahalfshell12

Why is there a constant outflow from GBTC like every day people keep wanting to exit because of the fees. What's stopping it all from flowing out at once? What are the circumstances from someone who sells tomorrow why aren't they just selling today?

Herosinahalfshell12

Why is there a constant outflow from GBTC like every day people keep wanting to exit because of the fees. What's stopping it all from flowing out at once? What are the circumstances from someone who sells tomorrow why aren't they just selling today?

2CommaNoob

Yep, there is no reason to hold GBTC over the others because of the expenses: GBTC 1.5% FBTC .25% IBIT .12%

ChaoticDad21

GBTC expense ratio is absurd. I hold FBTC and BITB.

Xavimoose

Care to elucidate? I don’t own any gbtc but i was looking into efts and ibit and GBTC caught my eye.

ChaoticDad21

Get the fuck out of GBTC and into literally any other ETF

jk3639

Fucking GBTC smh

JashBeep

MSTR stock is valued at roughly 3x the value of all the bitcoin they hold. Sometimes that's referred to as a premium to 'net asset value'. They issue new stock and sell it because it's "overvalued". They then use 100% of the proceeds to buy bitcoin. Each time they do this, they improve the amount of bitcoin per share that all existing stock holders have while also bringing down the value of the stock (since they issued new stock just like a money printer). I said theoretically because what has happened in practice is the underlying value of MSTR increases because a) they get more bitcoin and b) the price of bitcoin moves up due to MSTR buying off the market. This is why people are saying it's an "infinite money glitch". The higher the premium, the more they can do this. The confusing thing is why is MSTR valued at 3x the Bitcoin value. If you can buy bitcoin directly you could get 100% of your $ invested as bitcoin. However, if you can't do that because you're an institution that can't buy commodities or can't custody bitcoin, your next best option is to buy the ETFs. They attract a small annual fee, which is not ideal. Or you could buy MSTR and get \~33% exposure to bitcoin, no fees, and be invested in a company that uses "intelligent leverage" to acquire bitcoin. I think a lot of people are waiting for the stock to come down in price so that the premium is much smaller (like maybe 10% instead of 200%) but they may not be prepared to see the price of bitcoin rise up (if bitcoin 3x price then MSTR is valued appropriately). Of course the conundrum is if bitcoin went 3x you would probably expect MSTR stock to go ballistic as well. I don't own MSTR and not planning to buy it, but would consider if the premium ever went negative again. A similar (but different) thing happened with GBTC back in 2021-2023 it was initially trading at a premium to NAV during the BTC runnup and then went to a negative to NAV during the bear market.

kpooo7

Some are - some are not, me 61, gym 5-6 days per week actively mange my 401, been investing in GBTC dips since 2021, up over 150%….

ProfessorThom

Other than crypto, my portfolio is incredibly boring. I realize I essentially hit the lottery buying GBTC back in 2016, so I'd go index funds like the rest of what I own. My dabbling in penny stocks and the like was not successful at all, so I don't see a need to fritter the profits away,

Secret_Operative

My IRA and Roth both have bitcoin ETF shares, and before that they were in GBTC. It's quite amazing how much those accounts have grown in the last few years.

RandoStonian

GBTC only turned into an ETF in the last year or so. Fidelity was definitely letting people (like myself) put self-directed 401k money into GBTC at least as of 3-4 years ago.

Tasty-Window

ya well 401k had the tax benefits, but I tried to put it in bitcoin like 8 years ago and they wouldn't let me. I think the ETF at the time was GBTC or something.

_526

For sure. I feel like a few years ago around the time GBTC came out people viewed the ETFs a bit more negatively.

SmoothGoing

Blockfi was more about paying interest on bitcoin than giving out loans. They took bitcoin to grayscale, exchanged it for GBTC shares at cost, waited out the hold period then sold shares when it enjoyed a fat premium. That did not work out for them. There is no easy secure way to do this. No they don't want your keys that you also know, you will send bitcoin to THEIR keys. They might do whatever with those coins, run off to Angola maybe. Interest rates on those loans are pretty high too. And if the price moves down fast you do get liquidated which a) sells at a bad time at worst price b) locks in a taxable event.