GBTC

_dont_be_a_sucker

Long term Grayscale will simultaneously have the highest fee and lowest fee on the market. The asset manager’s decision to keep its ETHE fee at 2.5% is triggering the [details here](https://research.kaiko.com/insights/will-the-launch-of-spot-eth-etf-be-sell-the-news-event)outflows from the fund, mirroring the performance of GBTC post-conversion to a spot BTC ETF.

Objective_Digit

There's no sell the news, as there was no rumour. Bitcoin rose after the approval. It only fell a week later because of Grayscale selling GBTC.

delgrey

ETHE has tons more to sell. The bitcoin carnage from GBTC lasted a long time.

ElectricFleshPuppet

Mini ETF is being funded with 10% of GBTC. Maybe something to do with that

alineali

Unless you are talking about BTC futures ETFs I think this is incorrect. At leas all major ones (GBTC, IBIT, FBTC, BITB, ARKB etc) do not do any fractional reserving aside from having settlement window

biba8163

> ETH (Grayscale 0.15%) The mini-ETF, ETH lets a lot of young retail buyers buy for a a few bucks. This is getting the most volume by far and has the lowest fees. I've been buying/selling GBTC in my Roth since 2017 and that volume is really important when the market turns and you want to dump a ton and you can't find buyers for everything a given price It's a shame Grayscale only thought of doing that for ETH. They've applied for the BTC mini ETF recently so we'll be seeing that soon.

Objective_Digit

I'll expect them to sell as they did with GBTC.

Cryptolution

Why is GBTC not included with the below statement? >In a landmark achievement, US Bitcoin spot exchange-traded funds (ETFs) *have cumulatively netted* over $17 billion in inflows, setting a new record.

gcm6664

GBTC outflow

Dazzling_Marzipan474

The Grayscale Bitcoin Mini Trust is a planned exchange-traded fund (ETF) that aims to provide investors with a lower-cost option for gaining exposure to Bitcoin. It will charge a management fee of 0.15%, significantly lower than the existing Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC), which has a 1.5% fee. The Mini Trust will be funded by transferring 10% of GBTC’s assets, allowing current GBTC shareholders to convert their holdings into shares of the new fund without incurring capital gains taxes. This initiative is part of Grayscale’s strategy to remain competitive in the evolving landscape of Bitcoin ETFs.

Dear-Dream8711

Don't forget GBTC selling this was huge psychological torture for lettuce hands.

Wrest_Assured

I mean, GBTC and mining stocks have been around since way before the ETF's. Could have put ROTH funds in those...

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The SoSoValue ETF Dashboard offers comprehensive data and analysis on Bitcoin and potential Ethereum ETFs, including real-time and historical insights on net inflows/outflows, trading volumes, and total assets. It features a detailed comparison of specific Bitcoin ETFs like GBTC, FBTC, and IBIT, among others, with visual charts for a coherent overview of the ETF market's dynamics. Additionally, it provides the latest ETF news, a Spot ETF Schedule, and aims to expand its focus to include Ethereum ETFs, offering a holistic view for investors to make informed decisions in the cryptocurrency space. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

NPCmillionaire

Because this cycle is more manipulation and the purpose was to unwind what bad BTC, ETH, and SOL positions/investments were made in the 2021 cycle. Read "The Bit Short" to see a good summary of how crypto markets are leverage upon leverage via Tether, Binance, and so on. BTC just doesn't have the risk reward anymore since 2018. Yes, if you bought lows, you are up of course, but if you bought at say the $18k peak in 2018 and held since then, you would have gotten a better return with less drawdowns in Apple. Also note a big thing going into the BTC ETF was Grayscale GBTC selling their 6% or so of the BTC supply. After the 2021 run, GBTC went as low as a 50% discount (it historically traded at a premium). The ETFs expense ratios are so small, it isn't worth it to run these ETFs beyond the manipulation. Also, why do we need x11 ETFs for the same asset type?

darkmauler1333

Is anyone else more frustrated than ever? I have been buying and holding since 2021, very much in profit, never sold a sat but watching the price sitting around where it was in 2021 is painful. Bitcoin always has something suppressing price, Mtgox, FTX, celcius, GBTC, carry trade and now it's Germany. How can we call this a successful hedge against fiat if someone who lump sum invested 3 years ago at 50-60k is down or flat? Realize we are still early but understand some people don't have the cash to DCA during down markets, the fact that price tops have remained flat for years is painful to watch.

chuckrabbit

Only a fraction of the total supply changes hands on a given day. BTC 24hr volume according to Coinmarketcap is 28B. According to Blockworks, IBIT alone has a 24 hour volume of 712M. FBTC and GBTC add up another 400M and the other ETFs are 300M. So about 1.5B. It’s about 5% of daily volume, if the data i’m looking at is correct. BTC ETFs now hold 5% of total supply according to BitcoinTreasuries.

analogOnly

Getting there.. this feels like a shorter version of the GBTC sell off..

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; 11 spot Bitcoin ETFs in the US experienced their third consecutive day of positive inflows, totaling $216.33 million on Tuesday. BlackRock's IBIT led with $121.03 million, followed by Fidelity's FBTC with $90.95 million. Ark Invest and 21Shares' ARKB, and VanEck's bitcoin fund also saw inflows, while Grayscale's GBTC and Bitwise's BITB reported outflows. This marks a growing investor interest in Bitcoin amidst market volatility. Since January, these ETFs have seen $15.27 billion in net inflows. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

harvested

ETFs added $300M, nice to see. All these Germany / gox / ftx / GBTC distributions are a good thing, shouldn't be feared. Coins move to harder hands, new cost basis.

analogOnly

That's not a big deal, GBTC sold much more than that in a way shorter period.

revanevan7

Long term holders also dumped around 350k coins since the beginning of the year (obviously some were from GBTC so they overlap some, but definitely not all).

gotiobg

I think this is the biggest myth, is true that for some it was. But it is understated how many arbers and bankruptcy estates like FTX, Celsius, Gemini and the rest of those who were early GBTC buyers

manuLearning

Probably. But the ETFs bought overall more than GBTC sold.

Space_Is_Hope

You know GBTC dumped 350 000 BTC since the beginning and the price still went up?

harvested

Reposting from yesterday's daily, hope it's okay: The movements feel more scary when you're in them, but bitcoins history is full of these corrections, you don't get to play in the most liquid asset market in the world without some bumps. Sell and move on, or enjoy the ride and discount sats. Don't use leverage, ever. Don't save in bitcoin with money you need short term. Oh and Mtgox/Germany, like GBTC and FTX and Genesis can only be sold once. This is the cycle of cleaning the old skeletons out of the closet so bitcoin can move to the next level. Go BTC 🚀

harvested

The movements feel more scary when you're in them, but bitcoins history is full of these corrections, you don't get to play in the most liquid asset market in the world without some bumps. Sell and move on, or enjoy the ride and discount sats. Don't use leverage, ever. Don't save in bitcoin with money you need short term. Oh and Mtgox/Germany, like GBTC and FTX and Genesis can only be sold once. This is the cycle of cleaning the old skeletons out of the closet so bitcoin can move to the next level. Go BTC

ljapa

IBIT surpassed GBTC for AUM last month.

Objective_Digit

I got schooled? By whom? And he's dead wrong. It rose on acceptance. It fell a week or so later when there was a sell off of GBTC. There was no sell the news. That was a load of bollocks.

Objective_Digit

No it didn't. It did a week or so later when GBTC was sold off.

Objective_Digit

Bitcoin rose that's what happened. Then breached the ATH before a halving for the first time. In between it fell quite a bit - but that was because of the GBTC sell off.

moonRekt

You have all missed out on buying grayscales like BTC and ETH at 40% discount. Price action might not mean much to you with these ETF approvals but everytime new ones are approved my stacks grow 35% regardless of price action. First GBTC, then ETHE, next GDLC…

SirGelson

GBTC in green?? Who buys GBTC?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; US spot Bitcoin ETFs are experiencing their longest-selling streak, with a seventh consecutive day of outflows totaling $174 million. Major funds like Grayscale's GBTC and Fidelity's FBTC saw significant withdrawals. This downturn follows a 19-day inflow streak that ended on June 11. The outflows coincide with a price correction in Bitcoin, which dipped below $59,000 amid news of Mt. Gox's trustee repaying creditors with over $9 billion in Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Oheson

Which is a fraction of the GBTC sold and bought when the price did absolutely nothing from it.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; U.S.-listed Bitcoin ETFs have experienced significant outflows, totaling over $900 million in losses for the week, marking their worst performance since mid-April. Grayscale's GBTC and Fidelity's FBTC led the outflows, with BlackRock's IBIT being the only ETF to see net inflows. The outflows coincide with a period of weak Bitcoin prices, influenced by large holder sales, dollar strength, and a strong U.S. technology index market. This trend represents the most substantial outflow activity since late April, when $1.2 billion in net outflows were recorded. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

NPCmillionaire

Blockchain has already been taken over. It's why this cycle has been so impotent. About the only thing "new" is colored coins on BTC masquerading as NFTs and tokens. Oh, and Solana and the memecoin narrative has thrown out any sense of utility. Actually, utility is considered bearish now. We had/have tokens like Monero (XMR) that brought something to the table with default privacy, but no reason to hold those and you would actually be down heavily in fiat terms on those since they never regained their 2018 highs, which was around $500 XMR at $18k BTC. Also, XMR trading has been removed from many platforms. Typed some more on this elsewhere. Maybe if I get enough karma I'll make a post: I don't trust crypto anymore and haven't since the 2021 cycle. Before this cycle kicked off, I would have liked to see Tether (USDT) and a lot of the shadow leverage from Binance and so on to vanish. However, none of that happened and while we are back past ATHs, I'm not really sure where else we have to go. Maybe people don't remember the 2018 cycle. CME futures came online and were able to crush the BTC price down to say $6k. Covid hit March 2020 and we went to $3k. This is when Binance and a lot of other exchanges started using USDT as the default trading pair (before, it was BTC). Then USDT exploded from sub $1bil to $100bil+. There was a good online article called "The Bit Short" that showed how fake inflows/trades were. People like Dr. Micheal Burry were talking about shadow leverage via Binance. Anyone could see this in the random BNB defi that showed up. So the effect of USDT was far more than just the $100bil+ market cap. Didn't SOL get like $10bil+ USDT? And so on. GBTC owned like 6% of the BTC supply and went to a 50% discount. Historically it had traded at a premium. Now, GBTC is down to 2% of the supply or so and the 11 ETFs (why that many?) pretty much bought what they were selling. But the ETFs expense ratios are so low, why is it even worth it to run the ETFs? In terms of metas this cycle, there is the ETF, where it's finally "safe" to buy in at $50k+ BTC instead of $500 BTC (which could be done via GBTC). There are ordinals on BTC, but it's a very forced, kind of cringe narrative. They hate anything with any sort of utility, and "dog go to the moon" (yes that is the ticker name) is the main rune's token ATM. Runes is slightly better BRC-20, which was a shitty version of ERC-20, but on BTC. Solana has pure junk/meme garbage pumping. Again, utility is the most hated thing in the space. Why is "dogwifhat" worth $4bil or whatever? And all within less than 6 months? To be honest, I almost feel that USDT and all the pure crap is being ignored so the bubble gets even bigger, then there is a collapse (possibly coinciding with general markets) and crypto can be used as the scapegoat. Otherwise, I don't know how I feel about this weird forced meme pointless crypto landscape. I was never a deep cypherpunk or libertarian, but yeah, I expected more from crypto than what it has delivered. Yes, I wish I had just kept all my BTC from last cycle. I do still have exposure, but mainly via ordinals and runes tokens since I see that as a better risk/reward. BTC could fall, and those could gain in BTC terms. And even if BTC continues to rise, these also could rise in BTC terms. But just because I'm doing it doesn't necessarily mean I like it or that I think any of this is useful for humanity.

Vallum_Ustulo_5586

GBTC is a popular choice, but be aware of the 2% premium to NAV

pha3th0n

My understanding is that GBTC was a bit of a "hack" created before spot ETFs were approved. The downside is that there was no mechanism to withdraw, hence it often traded with a premium or discount against spot BTC. That's possibly what caused this better performance. Now that people can transfer from GBTC to another ETF, it's basically bleeding due to the much higher fees. It's still big, it's still making money to grayscale, so fees might never go down if AUM gets stable. DYOR the fund structure, history and conditions before putting money on this one in particular.

SevenGlass

The _spot_ Bitcoin ETFs are quite similar for the most part. A few ETFs worth calling out: Ticker|Notes :-:|:-- EZBC|Cheapest (Fees, not unit price. Unit price is irrelevant.) IBIT|Largest (Not sure why you would care about size past a certain threshold, but that's their selling point). FBTC|Custodies the bitcoin for you, no third party involvement. GBTC|Very expensive. BITX|2X Leveraged. Don't do this unless you understand what you are doing. It doesn't just mean "it goes up twice as fast". Expense drag is kind of a drag, and the volatility decay will eat you alive. BITW|Diluted with random tokens. Not really a Bitcoin ETF.

RandomGamer1917

does IBIT or GBTC rely on coinbase?

sheepsgonewild

The gains are same for all ETF’s GBTC just existed earlier - from now on exact same

SpaceToadD

It's the transition into new hands. It was GBTC -> new ETFs for awhile there. Then it's old hands that have been waiting for liquidity selling to the new ETFs, etc etc. Once the 65-70k range becomes the new bottom, then we can take off, but it's going to take time. Maybe it takes another 3-6 months, maybe it takes another 3-6 days, no one knows. But at long as there are new buyers, the price will eventually pass through the ATH.

NPCmillionaire

I don't trust crypto anymore and haven't since the 2021 cycle. Before this cycle kicked off, I would have liked to see Tether (USDT) and a lot of the shadow leverage from Binance and so on to vanish. However, none of that happened and while we are back past ATHs, I'm not really sure where else we have to go. Maybe people don't remember the 2018 cycle. CME futures came online and were able to crush the BTC price down to say $6k. Covid hit March 2020 and we went to $3k. This is when Binance and a lot of other exchanges started using USDT as the default trading pair (before, it was BTC). Then USDT exploded from sub $1bil to $100bil+. There was a good online article called "The Bit Short" that showed how fake inflows/trades were. People like Dr. Micheal Burry were talking about shadow leverage via Binance. Anyone could see this in the random BNB defi that showed up. So the effect of USDT was far more than just the $100bil+ market cap. Didn't SOL get like $10bil+ USDT? And so on. GBTC owned like 6% of the BTC supply and went to a 50% discount. Historically it had traded at a premium. Now, GBTC is down to 2% of the supply or so and the 11 ETFs (why that many?) pretty much bought what they were selling. But the ETFs expense ratios are so low, why is it even worth it to run the ETFs? In terms of metas this cycle, there is the ETF, where it's finally "safe" to buy in at $50k+ BTC instead of $500 BTC (which could be done via GBTC). There are ordinals on BTC, but it's a very forced, kind of cringe narrative. They hate anything with any sort of utility, and "dog go to the moon" (yes that is the ticker name) is the main rune's token ATM. Runes is slightly better BRC-20, which was a shitty version of ERC-20, but on BTC. Solana has pure junk/meme garbage pumping. Again, utility is the most hated thing in the space. Why is "dogwifhat" worth $4bil or whatever? And all within less than 6 months? To be honest, I almost feel that USDT and all the pure crap is being ignored so the bubble gets even bigger, then there is a collapse (possibly coinciding with general markets) and crypto can be used as the scapegoat. Otherwise, I don't know how I feel about this weird forced meme pointless crypto landscape. I was never a deep cypherpunk or libertarian, but yeah, I expected more from crypto than what it has delivered. Yes, I wish I had just kept all my BTC from last cycle. I do still have exposure, but mainly via ordinals and runes tokens since I see that as a better risk/reward. BTC could fall, and those could gain in BTC terms. And even if BTC continues to rise, these also could rise in BTC terms. But just because I'm doing it doesn't necessarily mean I like it or that I think any of this is useful for humanity.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BlackRock has overtaken Grayscale in total Assets Under Management (AUM) for Spot Bitcoin Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs), with its iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) surpassing $21.4 billion, over $1.6 billion more than Grayscale’s Bitcoin Trust ETF (GBTC). BlackRock's Spot Bitcoin ETF has seen significant inflows since its launch on January 11, with the largest daily inflow of $849 million recorded on March 12, 2024. In contrast, Grayscale has experienced more outflows than inflows. BlackRock's lower annual management fee of 0.25% compared to Grayscale's 1.5% has influenced investor preference towards BlackRock’s more cost-effective ETF option. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

StopGamingWithMe

At least get your fact right if you're trying to argue, all Bitcoin ETFs have around ~$12billion net inflow, you do realize net inflow means outflow is deducted right? And you know the largest BTC etf at launch was Grayscale GBTC which has the most outflow right? Now before you try to say ~12b net inflow across all BTC ETF is dust like the previous commentor said I hope you realize BTC has broke it's ATH and ETH haven't got near to it's ATH yet.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; On June 3, 2024, the Bitcoin Spot ETF recorded a net inflow of $105M, marking 15 consecutive days of positive net inflows. Among the 10 Bitcoin Spot ETFs, the Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund (FBTC) saw the highest single-day inflow of $77M. Despite this, both the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) and BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) reported no change in their net flows for the day. The cumulative total net inflow for these ETFs reached $13.96B after 99 trading days. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Olskoolah

This is a fact. Never has a possible sell the news event in crypto not been. Those Greyscale bags been heavy a long time and every one of them are in long term capital gains unlike the GBTC in January

bojothedawg

Blackrock’s fund has overtaken GBTC in its holdings now. https://www.bitcoinstrategyplatform.com/etfs

moonRekt

I bought GBTC and ETHE when they were discounted ~40%. I rolled over my GBTC to GDLC since it’s still 70% BTC which with discount you’re still getting over 1/1 ratio for your money. I’m in the same boat with ETHE now, sell it to stop paying custodial fees and rather get staking yield, or hold on to it longer since it’s at least taxable as long term cap gains now

Nickel62

People asking why - Grayscale are greedy assholes. Their ETFs (GBTC and ETHE) are so much more expensive than competing spot ETFs, with an expense ratio of 1.5% versus a median expense ratio of 0.25% for its 10 rivals. That's why people will sell Grayscale ETFs and then gradually buy back with others.

Nickel62

Grayscale are greedy assholes. Their ETFs (GBTC and ETHE) are so much more expensive than competing spot ETFs, with an expense ratio of 1.5% versus a median expense ratio of 0.25% for its 10 rivals. That's why people will sell Grayscale ETFs and then gradually buy back with others.

Dont_Waver

And everyone with GBTC purchases made less than a year ago pretty much have to wait for that 1 year mark so that their gains are long-term capital gains.

gmdmd

GBTC still raking in mad fees though. I'm sure they've done the math on when to pull back. 200 BTC = 14B - 210 Million annual fees @ 1.5% - 35 Million annual fees @ 0.25% Insane how much they collected @ 2% before ETFs came out.

Upstairs_Tomorrow614

Swapped out from GBTC to IBIT due to fee not matching lower options. Really think they shot themselves in the foot not bringing down their fee.

SmokyMountain5

Even with all the customers that they lost, they are still making more than they would have been making if they lowered the fee for all their customers.  The loss of GBTC customers has slowed down because some people don’t want the tax hit right now.

BlendedMonkey21

Because GBTC is making like six times the amount IBIT is in fees. They’ve likely bled off the majority of customers who are sensitive to those fees. They might still have some room to lose more BTC from people selling so let’s say equilibrium is 200k BTC and they slowly bleed their way down to that. They’re still collecting 6x the fees of their competitors all along the way. At 200k BTC, a competitor would need 1.2M BTC to match them in fee revenue. We’re pretty far off from that right now with IBIT being the leader at 287k.

Top_Mathematician895

Blackrock has officially flipped greyscale. Anyone have any bets as to when Fidelity follows suit? Current FBTC holdings of 162k bitcoin, GBTC 287k

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) has become the largest Bitcoin fund, surpassing Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) after recording $102 million in inflows. This shift occurred nearly five months after the SEC approved spot Bitcoin ETFs. IBIT now holds $19.68 billion in Bitcoin, slightly more than GBTC's $19.65 billion. The transition is attributed to IBIT's lower management fees compared to GBTC, making it a more economical choice for investors. BlackRock has also invested in IBIT through other funds, further supporting its growth. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

bitsteiner

The fund doesn't decide it, the holders sell their shares. The fund has to sell the BTC they hold and destroy GBTC shares in order to track the price accurately. The same thing happened with IBIT, just the other way round (buy BTC and create shares).

110010010011

They had to though. If the people holding GBTC sell a net amount, Grayscale must also. But I also believe that was people reallocating to lower fee ETFs. Net flows into ETFs, which includes Grayscale has been positive, despite Grayscales net outflows.

JYoungSocial

GBTC sold so much because their clients sold the ETF shares. Thus, GBTC has to sell the underlying bitcoin to reflect this change in outstanding shares. GBTC didn't sell their bitcoin "just because"; they sold because that's what's required of them as an ETF.

JubJubsFunFactory

$1B of GBTC outflow was FTX bankruptcy

GodzillaDoesntExist

GBTC fee's are way higher than everyone else's.

cadiz87

Why has GBTC sold so much, anyone got an explanation? If they were maxi’s they would have HODL more. By selling half of their BTC to institutions are they hoping it will increase the value of their remaining holdings? They must have done some serious analysis. Can anyone explain their thinking?

Seccour

Not really. People in profit have little interest in exiting GBTC for another ETF because it would trigger a taxable event. So they're stuck

CryptoDeepDive

ETFs are owned by investors, not institutions.The ETFs got most of their Bitcoin out of GBTC. Once you factor all that in, it is not as crazy.

Defusion55

Id be willing to wager most of the sales out of GBTC were related to bankruptcy proceedings. 

Objective_Digit

It's nowhere close. And there will probably be a big GBTC sell-off first as with Bitcoin.

bobsagetslover420

the tokens belong to clients. Clients buy shares of GBTC or ETHE, and Grayscale purchases physical tokens on their behalf. Grayscale isn't selling the tokens unless their clients sell their shares in GBTC or ETHE. I don't think you have a firm understanding of how their investment vehicles work

Gehrman_JoinsTheHunt

Crazy. Grayscale keeping their fee above 1% will probably go down as one of the worst ETF management decisions of all time. Really, what the heck were they thinking would happen? I was a GBTC holder for over 3 years but jumped ship on day one when the new ETFs launched.

Spank007

Yep. A lot probably moved into blackrock / fidelity etc. some probably sold up because GBTC valuation per coin was so trash for so long so people wanted their money back. Difficult to know what the true net inflow is. But it’s still fkin good.

SoupaSoka

This is true, but also GBTC has lost BTC since the launch, right?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs) now hold over 1 million BTC, nearing 5% of the total supply. Grayscale's GBTC and BlackRock's IBIT are the leading holders, with over 291,000 BTC and 279,500 BTC respectively. Germany's BTCetc and Sweden's Bitcoin Tracker Euro and Bitcoin Tracker One are notable non-US holders. Despite the growth, Hong Kong's recent Bitcoin ETFs have not yet attracted significant investor interest. Brazilian asset manager Hashdex's HASH11 also holds a significant amount, over 7,900 BTC. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

GMEthLoopring

Didn’t they START with 600k BTC because of GBTC tho

Ok-Tooth-4994

Your fiance will thank you. I started putting 100% into bitcoin in 2017. DCA every single day. Last year my now wife told me we needed to diversify just in case. So we did…into Coinbase and GBTC at 45% discount. After the ETF approval and further understanding of the value proposition of Bitcoin we’re back to all in on Bitcoin.

Get_the_nak

Confusing but Greyscale BTC is not the same as Greyscsle GBTC.

Objective_Digit

>the BTC halving There was a BTC halving then too. Or just before it. >Even the Eth etf announcement yesterday, still really hasn't had a ballistic impact on the price of Eth. No official announcement yet? Trading weeks or months off. There will be a GBTC sell off.

Tsarbomba_

Ehm..no. ETH will come crashing down once these ETFs are approved. Not only due to sell the news but GBTC dump will be severe for it. The only ones investing into it will be speculators. All ready to sell at the slightest negative news. Why would long term holders want ETH Etf when you can't even stake it to fight off its inflation, not to mention there's 0 utility from ETF ETH. That's the whole point of ETH compared to BTC.

Objective_Digit

No. I remember it going up. Then a week later the GBTC sell off.

zorroww

ETHE should stay the same like GBTC did. Grayscale ahead of the game getting the best Ether ticker

cannedshrimp

Was the opposite for BTC… rapid GBTC outflow followed by a steady overwhelming inflow. Maybe eth will be different, maybe not.

mi_bo

Have a Look at GBTC -> https://greenbitcoin.xyz/

Realistic-Jelly8133

The inflows on the other ETFs have dwarfed the outflows of GBTC: https://www.bitcoinstrategyplatform.com/etfs

user_name_checks_out

It has been a few days since I heard anybody talk about the demand from ETFs being satisfied by the selloff from GBTC. What's the latest on that?

iaco56

Curious what happens I have some GBTC

Shaglock

That’s irrelevant. Most ppl holding GBTC and ETHE bought when there’s nav discount like 25-50% and beholding 3-4 years. They’re gonna redeem with 200-400% profit.

ultron290196

Outflow from GBTC is more likely tbh

LevitatingTurtles

Everyone is excited for the ETH ETF but nobody seems to remember that the last 90 days have been essentially a giant liquidation of GBTC positions into an eager market. I see no reason to think ETHE won’t be a similar drawdown which will provide ample liquidity in the short term. Unclear how much demand there will be for ETH as compared to BTC so it could even depress price for the near future. I hold 40% of my portfolio in ETH so I def want to see the price rise but I’m worried short term pain is ahead.

eyedude2898

I agree. What I'd be interested to find out is how much of the money in ETFs belongs to other crypto industry players vs institutions vs retail. IIRC a lot of crypto companies had a lot tied up in GBTC, which they are (or have) moved to other ETFs.

the_lone_unlearned

it was a combo of things. Some was people moving to cheaper ETFs. Some was people arbitraging the GBTC NAV as it closed once it converted to ETF (supposedly that was several billions dollars worth right there). Some was failed crypto institutions like FTX and others who had some of their money in GBTC finally selling to pay back customers (another few billion dollars worth right there). And of course some no doubt just decided to sell to get out for profit taking.

landLORDx

Buy Bitcoin on CashApp during the next bear market which should be around November 2025. Sell it via Cashapp the next bull market, which should be sometime in 2027 or after the next halving. Could sell it earlier in the bull market like April or May 2027 on its first bull run or wait until November or December of 2027. Personally, I purchased an entire BTC for around $17k on Cashapp November 2022 and I have held on to it for a year and half or until the next bull run which is happening now. I could sell it today and make nearly a $53,000 return in just a year and a half. Now that’s a profit but it takes patience. Gold isn’t going to bring you those kinds of returns nor will SPY. Maybe GBTC if purchased during the bear market….You can still make a lot of $$$$ w/BTC if you have patience and can complete 8th grade math.

maxbjaevermose

You're assuming those GBTC sells are not balanced by other ETF buys

danperson1

Don't forget GBTC is selling a bunch of bitcoin everyday, but once they stop then we're in for a good time

dormango

GBTC were charging about 1.5% compared to the likes of IBIT at something like 0.2% or 0.25%. I’m sure my numbers aren’t quite right but you get the drift and can see why people would move.

sfink06

What's the deal with GBTC? Did they simply take a beating on people fleeing to the new ETF offerings or what?

cyger

Maybe not as much, I was holding GBTC for 9 years waiting for a proper ETF. ETHE has been around for much less time and was way overpriced for much of it.

Miltonwh

That’s me. Opened up a brokerage 401k account and converted to GBTC a few years ago when bitcoin was around 20k. Bought 4-5 BTC worth. Recently converted to ETFs. Best decision ever. Whoever doesn’t have a lot of exposure to BTC in tax deferred accounts in retarded (not that that’s what you said)

switchn

There's literally a GBTC equivalent for eth called ETHE from the same issuer lol. Hopefully Grayscale manages the fees better on this conversion, because having months of outflows like gbtc did would be brutal

Drspaceman1717

But… there was already GBTC and investments in BTC mining companies (RIOT) that were absorbing some demand. The ETH demand has no proxy so it could be interesting! But it could also lower the investment in BTC?!

dontblamemeivotedfor

Don't you guys have any new forms of FUD? You tried this claim against GBTC (and you were wrong/lying), you tried it against Tether (and you were wrong/lying), now you're trying it against Blackrock (and you are wrong and lying).