GBTC

Aurorion

Depends on what danger you are talking about. ETFs are much safer against $5 wrench attacks - as safe as any other financial asset. Plus risks of securely storing your keys / passphrase etc. Of course they are not safe from the tyranny of the government. Plus they may get hacked - but this can be mitigated by diversifying across multiple ETFs: FBTC, GBTC, IBIT, ARKB, etc.

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Post is by: Worried-Medicine8713 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/BitcoinBeginners/comments/1of5cc3/breaking_crypto_news/ Bitcoin ETF Inflows Hit $2.1B in Single Week as Institutional FOMO Returns TL;DR: Spot Bitcoin ETFs just recorded their strongest weekly inflows since launch, with BlackRock’s IBIT leading the charge. Meanwhile, on-chain metrics suggest we’re entering a supply squeeze that could rival 2020’s pre-halving dynamics. The Numbers Don’t Lie This week’s ETF data is absolutely bonkers. We’re seeing: • $2.1 billion in net inflows across all spot Bitcoin ETFs • BlackRock’s IBIT alone absorbed $1.3B (that’s more than most altcoins’ entire market cap) • Fidelity’s FBTC added another $520M • Even the Grayscale GBTC hemorrhaging has finally stopped For context, the last time we saw institutional appetite like this was during the initial ETF approval euphoria in January. But this time feels different. Why This Time Actually IS Different 1. The Supply Shock is Real Exchange balances just hit a 6-year low. Combined with ETF buying that can’t be satisfied by paper Bitcoin, we’re looking at a genuine supply crunch. When you factor in: • 1.8M BTC lost forever • Long-term holders refusing to sell • Institutional custody removing coins from circulation You get a scenario where even modest demand creates outsized price impacts. 2. The Macro Picture is Shifting Fed policy uncertainty usually crushes risk assets, but Bitcoin is increasingly behaving like a macro hedge rather than a tech stock. This week’s inflows came despite rising bond yields and a stronger dollar—traditionally bearish conditions for crypto. 3. Corporate Treasuries Are Joining the Party It’s not just ETFs. We’re seeing a wave of companies adding Bitcoin to their balance sheets: • MicroStrategy (obviously) just bought another 7,420 BTC • Two mid-cap companies announced Bitcoin treasury strategies this week • Corporate FOMO is becoming a real narrative again The Bear Case (Because We’re Not All Moonbois Here) Let’s be real—this could also be: • Late-cycle euphoria before a correction • A short squeeze that fades quickly • Institutions front-running Q4 before year-end redemptions The RSI is cooked, funding rates are elevated, and we’re overdue for a healthy pullback. But zooming out, the structural demand thesis is stronger than ever. What This Means for You If you’re already in: This isn’t the top, but taking some profits into strength is never wrong. Consider DCA-ing out small portions if you’re overexposed. If you’re on the sidelines: Waiting for a dip to $50K might mean you’re waiting forever. Time in the market > timing the market, but don’t ape in at local tops. If you’re a degen: For the love of Satoshi, please don’t leverage long here. Yes, the momentum looks incredible, but one liquidation cascade and you’re rekt. The Bigger Picture We’re witnessing Bitcoin’s transition from a speculative tech asset to a legitimate institutional asset class happening in real-time. Whether we hit $100K this cycle or not, the infrastructure and institutional adoption happening now is laying groundwork for the next decade. The ETF flows aren’t just numbers on a screen—they represent a fundamental shift in how traditional finance views Bitcoin. And once that Pandora’s box is open, there’s no closing it. What do you think—are we early to the next leg up, or is this the blow-off top before a brutal correction? Drop your takes below. Disclaimer: This is not financial advice. I’m literally just some person on the internet. DYOR and never invest more than you can afford to lose. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Post is by: markusgarvey001 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1odym1f/the_complete_story_of_three_arrows_capital_how_a/ I spent weeks researching the Three Arrows Capital collapse and created a documentary covering what really happened. The GBTC arbitrage trade. The Terra Luna exposure. The margin calls. The Bali escape. All of it. This isn't your typical surface-level crypto content - this is a full investigative breakdown with court documents, bankruptcy filings, and blockchain evidence. Timestamps in the video for specific sections if you want to skip around. [https://youtu.be/5J7tWxEF9MA?si=Fk7Z3edZk-xwhSJe](https://youtu.be/5J7tWxEF9MA?si=Fk7Z3edZk-xwhSJe) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

_swuaksa8242211

GBTC💙

AdmirableExercise197

>Case the dollar hyper inflates, GBTC won't really help Hyperinflation would have nothing to do with that. You are protected against hyperinflation because GBTC and other trusts have purchased Bitcoin on your behalf, they have the bitcoin. Hyperinflation isn't going to cause some sort of mega collapse, it's just going to massively devalue the dollar. These custodial companies will still have the underlying asset, still exist, still hold the bitcoin, still **likely** be reliable. So there is no reason to expect hyperinflation to cause them a problem. The only issue with having a custodian is that you are trusting the body/institution holding the bitcoin on your behalf. Inflation has nothing to do with it. However I would agree it definitely is counter-intuitive to the whole reason bitcoin is a thing, which is to by-pass the need of traditional institutions for a trusted and verified transaction and storage method. That being said I don't think there is anything inherent about Bitcoin that means you should feel forced to bypass the institutions, just that it's an option.

Efficient_Culture569

I understand why people do it. But on the other side, the true power of Bitcoin, comes from owning it.  Case the dollar hyper inflates, GBTC won't really help. (extreme case just to help nightlight the point) It's understanding the problem Bitcoin is trying to solve. 

Ok-Sympathy9768

If the ETFs were to pull a Lehman brothers, what do you think you think will happen to bitcoin price? The ETFs are a good thing for bitcoin price as it opens up access to a lot of money sitting in retirement accounts. GBTC was a game changer back in the day(a few cycles ago) for a lot of people.. it was safe and easy to access the liquidity of ROTH IRAs and SEPs ( even Vanguard allowed you to buy GBTC at one point)..if want 10 coins of “exposure” to start it was less than $50k .. DCAing was buying/adding one coin of exposure at a time.. crazy to think about now

Ok-Sympathy9768

Yup.. I don’t own a single bitcoin or even a sat…only bitcoin exposure thanks to GBTC and the other ETFs in a tax advantaged accounts. The flip side is 1 out of every 4 bitcoins ever mined has been lost… not stolen, but lost I trust the ETFs more than I trust myself

Wood_Ring

Currently short IBIT, ETHA, and SLV puts, and long gold via futures. I also hold some shares of GBTC. 

kpooo7

Thanks, when the split up GBTC I “acquired” mini still don’t understand what the difference is?

kpooo7

I bought GBTC in 2021 in my retirement account, as a newbie to crypto, IMO compared to the exchanges that were either crooks or at the least poorly managed turned out to be the safest way to OWN BTC. Bought IBIT this year, will most likely transfer GBTC to IBIT because of the lower fees.

fintechjunkie

Cold storage is a must, BUT thoughts are just for stock portfolio. My largest position is the S&P some GBTC from years ago has done great. IBIT owns a lot more bitcoin so I’m thinking they are superior vs GBTC.. which bitcoin treasury do you own ?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; US spot Bitcoin ETFs saw $2.71 billion in weekly inflows during 'Uptober,' with total assets under management reaching $158.96 billion, nearly 7% of Bitcoin's market cap. Monday marked the second-largest single-day inflow at $1.21 billion. BlackRock's IBIT led with $74.2 million in daily inflows, while Fidelity's FBTC and Grayscale's GBTC saw outflows. Analysts view the surge in ETF applications as a potential opening of the 'floodgates' for crypto ETFs, with nearly 100 crypto-related products awaiting SEC decisions. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

ceilinglicker

I put $1000 into GBTC ( grayscale bitcoin trust) back when it was $16, That $1k has turned into nearly $8,000 in less then 5 years. bitcoin is going to $1million sooner or later. I WANT the government to spend money. Spending money means the dollar is devalued and that in turn increases the value of bitcoin.... Since the year **2000**, the dollar has been **devalued 47%** from printing money through **quantitative easing**. bitcoin is a hedge to inflation of the US Dollar and that congress will i**ncrease the debt ceiling** that is inevitable. USA has no other choice then to keep going in more debt as we spin the drain.

ceilinglicker

I put $1000 into GBTC ( grayscale bitcoin trust) back when it was $16, That $1k has turned into nearly $8,000 in less then 5 years. bitcoin is going to $1million sooner or later. I WANT the government to spend money. Spending money means the dollar is devalued and that in turn increases the value of bitcoin.... Since the year **2000**, the dollar has been **devalued 47%** from printing money through **quantitative easing**. bitcoin is a hedge to inflation of the US Dollar and that congress will i**ncrease the debt ceiling** that is inevitable. USA has no other choice then to keep going in more debt as we spin the drain.

vplatt

So true... the GBTC folks could also load up the crypto they've got into hard wallets and fuck right off into the sunset somewhere and there would be nothing I could do about it. 🤷‍♂️ The thing I struggle with is: which is more likely? I fuck up and lose my coins because of something stupid I did vs. them breaking bad hard and then I'm out of luck because of that? I'm also a bit stuck on the whole tax situation. Like, I would like to do this without constantly running afoul of the IRS. Buying / selling coins is going to leave a trail, and while I'm no tax evader, I would also like to NOT be taxed for BTC valuation changes by the feds just for the lolz. I see a big push for finding those folks out down the road, and I don't see how they're supposed to enjoy their investment returns without facing constant tax issues in the long term.

vplatt

So... dumb question. I got into GBTC security some time ago at $10/share. It's nothing huge, but since it's over $90/share now, I'm feeling pretty good about it. Now, obviously there are strong biases here towards use of direct BTC vs. fiat, but I really feel like the point is moot for the foreseeable future for everyday use; especially as I live in the US. Keeping the investment in a security also simplifies the tax situation. **So, the real question is that, as an investment vehicle, would direct ownership of BTC present a significant enough upside to overcome the risks of managing a hard wallet?** I'm frankly terrified of those risks to be honest. The idea of putting together a sizable investment there, having it grow, then making plans around that and having it disappear in some newfangled hack leave me queasy, to put it mildly. What do you think?

LectureTall7744

You should look for a bitcoin yield ETF that generates monthly dividends for you. In Dec/2024 I converted my $85,000 of Larry Berman RRSP ETFs to IBIT and GBTC. In the spring of 2025, when our dollar was down, I converted all of it to the Canadian dollar IBIT because the bank was charging 1.5% to go from CAD to USD. In the summer of 2025 my total was over $200,000 in tax protected bitcoin ETFs. Then I converted them to yield ETFs that pay almost $2,000 a month in dividends into the tax accounts. As I write this they are down over 5%/$10,000+ since I bought, but when the market opens they will start climbing again. The $8.000 that didn't fit in my TFSA I bought bitcoin with. In December I will move about $20,000 from my TFSA to RRSP. This will take $20,000 off my gross income and free up the same $20,000 in my TFSA cap for 2026. In Jan/2026 I can sell my coin and put it in the TFSA as ETFs. My points are to shop around for a good tax free ETF that makes you the most money in your country. Expect your ETFs to be volatile with bitcoin price, but try to HODL them. You may wish to buy coin as well but ETFs are better tax wise.

Effective_Squash2159

No clue about arb, avax or Wlfi but I have significant positions in the others. There's also crypto ETF stocks like IBit, GBTC as well as a new up and comer BMNR if you want to diversify a little as well.

GeneralZex

I already moved a lot of my funds out of Vanguard. It’s the principle of the matter. They had no issues with GBTC until ETFs got approved…

GeneralZex

What’s screwed up is they did allow people to buy/sell GBTC before the ETFs launched. Afterwards? Nope.

Head-End-5909

Unless someone wants to put in the work to self-custody BTC, they shouldn’t do it. Your older relative could just acquire it via a CEX, but I’ve read about difficulties in passing on to a beneficiary. There’s nothing wrong with BTC ETFs, though maximalists abhor it. I stack sats, but also hold crypto ETFs in my tradfi portfolio, because it’s in my ROTH (no taxes) Look at iShare’s IBIT or Greyscale’s GBTC. IBIT’s expense ratio is much lower than GBTC.

LoadExternal6570

GBTC

Accord-ing_25_Tim

I previously held GBTC, but once BTC ETFs were officially approved I thought it would dilute, so I transitioned to building my outright BTC holdings (not your keys, not your crypto). I still believe BTC ETFs are a great vehicle for those who want lower risk exposure to BTC, but I don’t trust the companies that are hosting your funds to maintain a 1-for-1 ratio that mirrors BTC.

Fly_Eagle500

Buy GBTC or FBTC, both safer and easier option than keeping and maintaining your own wallet.

Sassylyz

I saw btc at 20$ and tried for a few hours to figure out how to buy. then I let it go. Years later I saw it was at 200 bucks and told myself I was too late. Ended up buying GBTC for the equivalent of about $10,000 per BTC. 😆

Solnse

I've got both IBIT and GBTC in my Roth. I don't think Blackrock is going anywhere.

CyberCurrency

I just trust Grayscale more than the latest Bitcoin offerings since they've had a great track record(although fidelity is good too!). Expense ratio is also lower than their earlier GBTC offering and you can even sell options against your position. Roth comes first simply because it's tax-free gains at retirement

inspron2

For a long time, like over 2 years GBTC traded 20 to 50% below NAV.

gamedawgs

0% (but I do put a % to IBIT and GBTC)

Ok-Sympathy9768

The OP absolutely did the right thing.. BTC today was not what BTC was back in 2017… I remember trying to move some money to an exchange and my bank threatened to close all my accounts because they suspected I was attempting to do fraudulent activity .. lots of explaining to the bank that I thought it was a good investment opportunity and they wouldn’t budge. It’s crazy to think about today.. (and grateful there was the GBTC option to get some exposure). I consider myself way late to the party and I have been through a few cycles.. stacking sats wasn’t a thing it was stacking coins and getting exposure to 100 coins which quickly dropped to 21 bitcoins … but before that being able to get coins for basically free…crazy to think about

Malak77

It's all relative. I first heard about Bitcoin reading a tiny blurb about the idea of a BItcoin ATM while waiting in a dentist's waiting room maybe in 2011? OMG, if I had started mining then, I would have avoided a DECADE of working! I did finally stumble on it again in 2013 when BTC was $50. Been making lots of money ever since, but my huge cache I mined back them is encrypted(by my custom program), but I forget the keys I used in my program. -\_- I have made multiples since thanks to Cathie Wood's ARK fund and GBTC. I may end up paying someone to hack my orig hoard, but still doing well despite all that.

AnonymDePlume

I watched the GBTC discount to NAV too. Bought a bunch of it at 30, 40, 45% discount. Nice work.

Nice-Range-7653

I paid super close, borderline obsessive attention during the GBTC conversion and the ensuing law suit. The bigger the discount to nav the more I bought. In my 401k. My financial advisor was pissed but I kept saying trust me bro. Then once all the approvals happened I moved it to FBTC and haven’t looked back. My only regret is that I didn’t go all in, but overall pretty happy.

1never_odd_or_even1

Not FBTC but I’ve been in GBTC years before ETFs… since $16/share

BoomerSooner-SEC

Well, I’m in my 60s so my investment horizons aren’t like they used to be!! Probably equal weights: real estate, S&P, and some bond funds (again, I’m old!). BTC was sort of a lark in like 2016. Bought a bunch and have never added or subtracted - although I did pick up at least a whole coin when GBTC won their appeal and the NAV discount went to zero. You all in this sub are SO much smarter about not just crypto but investing over all than I was - and really anyone I knew. We literally bought CDs at the bank! You guys are gonna be killing it by the time you are 60! And I honestly think BTC will be a big part of that. Good luck my friend!

uncapchad

Bitwise was the company which did the redemption. I believe Blackrock has made its application to do similar but no update on that yet. No concrete info on taxes except how it worked for Grayscale, looks like it is taxable even if the tax is deferred " if an investor sells shares of a fund like Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) and receives Bitcoin in-kind, the capital gains tax would be calculated based on the difference between the sale price of the GBTC shares and the investor's original cost basis. The tax rate would be 15% for short-term gains (held for less than a year) and 20% for long-term gains (held for more than a year)"

Kaleb_Goodwin

Always good to have some diversification. I own Bitcoin, FBTC and also microstrategy and Grayscale ETF (GBTC).

Early_Somewhere3465

Agreed. Bought GBTC a while back in my Roth and it's all tax free. Can swap it into something else like MSTR if I want as well.

Thomsbluebeenie

Even merely switching to another BTC ETF would save you substantially on fees; all of them are quite a bit lower than GBTC

Thomsbluebeenie

Are you subject to capital gains taxes? GBTC stinks because the fee is so high (1.5% per year), but you should weigh that against the cap gains hit you take up front.

Accord-ing_25_Tim

I did exactly the opposite. Held GBTC for a while, but sold for actual BTC once the ETFs received approval because I wanted my BTC to be solely MY BTC

Squirmme

Mstr is a stock and msty is an etf that follows mstr. Avoid those for now Stick to IBIT, GBTC, FBTC. For eth, FETH, ETHA. These are solid ETFs. You only need 1 of each type. Pro tip: when you start looking at etfs that track spot price, you need to look at 2 things: fees and nav. Fees are just what they charge you just for owning it. Nav is essentially how far the price of the etf has deviated from its true value when compared to spot price. The ones u listed are safe from bad nav so you’ll be fine

cyger

Sure, why not, in my IRA, I can already by various crypto ETFs. Even 10 years ago I could own GBTC in my IRA (and did)

cyger

Thanks for reminding me, it was in August 2015 that I bought my 1st GBTC shares in my IRA. And I've actually held on all this time. It is amazing what a 400x gain will do to your IRA. Of course I only put a tiny % of my assets into it at the time - but just enough... Like no one was recommending Bitcoin back then, especially anyone in the tradfi world.

Ok-Sympathy9768

A lot people didn’t hold.. but I remember I kept adding to my bitcoin “exposure” ( I have never actually owned bitcoin) during the FTX debacle, and a couple of other major pullbacks…but when it crashed hard during FTX.. I had just got into this mindset of “fuck it”, if goes to zero then it goes to zero, and I actually added to my BTC position when BTC bottomed/lowest point. I had an experience with another investment that I had pulled out of earlier in the year (car company NIO) and totally regretted it.. I wasn’t going to let that happen with my GBTC position .. that’s why I survived not pulling out.

Ok-Sympathy9768

When is enough enough? It’s an honest question? At what point do you stop the accumulation phase and focus on enjoying the fruits of your good decision to invest in bitcoin?? I ask this question because I never bought bitcoin Because i didn’t understand the tech part of it… But I did start my accumulation of bitcoin “exposure” at around the same price point as you through GBTC in a tax advantaged investment account….I am trying to figure out when enough is enough… it’s crazy to say now but there was some hesitancy to drop 300k-500k to get to 100 bitcoins 6 or 7 years ago( back then that was a lot of money and bitcoin was very much a risk and highly volatile and institutional investors were not a thing)… so a more realistic goal was to get to exposure equal to 21 bitcoins.. i guess I am asking what is the goal for this “cycle” of investors where feel they have enough bitcoins or bitcoin exposure to retire? Is it still 21, or is reduced down to 15 or 10 bitcoins? Or is it now 2.1 bitcoins is enough??

Own_Sky9933

They aren’t that bad. Before the ETFs GBTC was the only way to get exposure. It was a closed end trust and the fees there were 2%. That was huge.

ImmediateDust9721

The price especially drops during the day when the funds are trading. [https://www.theblock.co/data/crypto-markets/bitcoin-etf](https://www.theblock.co/data/crypto-markets/bitcoin-etf) Note the net flows between each fund. GBTC has been constantly selling. IBIT has been constantly buying. [https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2025-101-sec-permits-kind-creations-redemptions-crypto-etps](https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2025-101-sec-permits-kind-creations-redemptions-crypto-etps) Will be relevant in maybe half a year.

Secret_Operative

I've been growing my Roth and my IRA since early GBTC days with great success. More years to go before 59.5. But sure, assume I don't understand my own investment accounts.

GeneralZex

I have Bitcoin in cold storage. I also own GBTC and iBit in retirement accounts. ETFs have a place, but they are not a replacement for actual Bitcoin.

vattenj

I remember, when grayscale's GBTC were traded at a premium, it is a similar logic, but then later on it started to trade at a discount. I don't remember what triggered that flip, but it worth studying to project MicroStrategy's bond performance

Discokruse

Buy-write strategy OoTM, 30 DtE, on GBTC or FBTC.

SmoothGoing

BTCC fund holds GBTC shares and sells options contracts for them. With the money they get from buyers of those contracts they pay out a dividend to shareholders. This dividend will vary month to month. Sometimes great sometimes not as much. Performance of this ticker is some layers deep away from bitcoin's price but it's definitely dependent on it. You're not buying bitcoin in any sense but rather cashflow from contract sales. Fund is only a few months old so interest is low, total assets is paltry $15 million, and trading volume is crap. Getting in or out significant volume might not be easy. An actual spot bitcoin ETF holds bitcoin, usually by third party custodian. You're still not buying bitcoin but you are buying more directly linked exposure to the price. The fund actually does own BTC and share price generally will perform closely in step with price of bitcoin. There is no cash flow in these, so no dividends. Most such funds do charge an annual expense ratio. Some more than others. BTCC is 0.66%. Big spot ETFs include IBIT and FBTC, both charging 0.25%. They hold tens of billions dollars worth of bitcoin and trading volume is huge. Very liquid stuff to get in and out even for day traders. The upside is of course these can be traded in tax advantaged retirement accounts and tax reporting is much easier since the broker will calculate the cost basis and gains for you.

ProfessorThom

When I retire. I bought into GBTC (about seven BTC worth) with some play money in an IRA back in 2015, along with nine other investments that went to zero within a couple of years. I'm a buy and hold kind of guy for everything, so whatever's in there five to ten years from now will go to something absurdly conservative. For now, it sits there.

stock_momma

Sold all of my traditional stocks for bitcoin ETFs when they were approved (had GBTC long before approval) Has been the best decision, but do what’s best for you

MattBonne

GBTC has the highest ER, not worth it.

stock_momma

I would suggest FBTC, GBTC, BTC. I use fidelity

IAteUrMama

Went all in during IBIT launch. Best. Decision.Ever. I was sweating the first few months because of GBTC, but looking back, it was a great decision.

Turin1973

I went top heavy into XRP. Got too many people in my ear about it to ignore. Idk what’ll happen in the end but I’m willing to gamble. And I bought some LTC ETC ADA and TRX. For ETF’s (and I know there’s some overlap), I’m in SPY QQQ VOT AAAU SLV ITA XLI SCHD VBR VOE and I’m going to start buying GBTC as part of the rotation. And then the only stock I buy is BRK/B. It’s kind of like an ETF

eastvenomrebel

I'm not too certain people will be more inclined to buy it at 1million. I think there's a bit of psychological factors at play when you're buying a fraction of something at that price. If there's was a price split like companies do with stocks, then sure.. Most people find it hard to look past the price cause if they're not buying into it at 100k, they're likely not buying it at 1mill. Of course there are other factors aside from the sticker price. Like, oh, its too high! Will it crash more? etc. Most people simply don't have the time/care/interest to look into Bitcoin. I think the most important factors (aside from the price going up) are ease of use, security, and accountability. I agree with you institutional adoption will make it much less scary for most people, but then they'll likely want a buffer for safety and accountability and want to go through a medium like IBIT or GBTC or something of that extent. cause frankly, holding a large sum of money yourself can be a daunting task for most people. But of course, there needs to be tools/products that can help facilitate what keep most people from buying. TLDR: maybe

Nice-Range-7653

You can 100% buy FBTC through the Fidelity BrokerageLink option. You have to acknowledge about 6 different warnings about volatility and risk but once you do, you can buy whatever you want basically. You could even buy GBTC years before the ETF was approved.

KlearCat

First I set limit orders Second, I front ran the ETF approval by buying GBTC at a huge discount with my entire 401k well before the ETFs were approved.

WYLFriesWthat

Yeah I’m selling all my GBTC that I’ve been holding since $16. Gonna buy a minivan for the fam (loaded Sienna). Last year when the ETFs came out, I put all the cash in my brokerage account in FBTC. Now that’s LTCGs, so I’ll start scaling out at my low-cycle-high target. But the HODL stack stays in deep cold storage.

spid3rfly

I ended up cutting the contribution to what they match. The excess gets spot bitcoin. I've tried to convince my employer for years to find a fund that contains GBTC(before mstr), MSTR(before the ETFs), and last year I started bugging them about the ETFs... They just laughed at me. 🙄😅

RANEDJ

I’m HAlVING Fun! $BTC $GBTC ;>

RANEDJ

17000 GBTC too

RANEDJ

100 Million Sats Type Of away $BTC and $GBTC Mr CEO :-)

moonRekt

I bought GBTC when it was at 40% discount, sold it when it went spot and discount evaporated, did same with ETHE, GDLC, now I’m out of discounted stuff to buy so all in on IBIT COIN and ETH in our retirements

RANEDJ

118K $BTC $GBTC 120K On Deck! PLUR :-)

whammy_time

Vanguard doesn't sell e.g. BITO or GBTC but does offer MSTR. But otherwise, yeah.

ask_for_pgp

i think if FTX wouldnt have blown up, we would have gotten 100k 2021; it still would have crashed to similair lows we had. perhaps 20k would have held. 200k i dont think we should have had last year. ETFs always needed time. the GBTC winddown (genesis bankrupcty) was also a major drag. perhaps 100k reclaim should have could have happend eventually around 2024 yes. now we are the cusp of next supply shock and we cleaned up all those bad players. we are onboarding new scammers though and some of them will blow up in the next bear again. but i think first we squeeze to 500k.

Doomsdayer

Higher fees impacted GBTC, but also they had a spin off of BTC from GBTC in July 2024 - so you need to add that back into the GBTC return to get an equal comparison or wait until August for a 1Y chart after the 7/31/24 spinoff date. Returns for 8/1/24-7/4/25 from yahoo finance are much more in line; 63.32% GBTC, 65.42% BTC, 65.32% FBTC, 65.14% IBIT, and bitcoin USD 67.19%.

Doomsdayer

Gbtc had a significant discount to NAV leading up to the conversion to an ETF from a trust (-40% in 2023), but 0% as of January 2024 when conversion happened. Higher fees impacted GBTC, but also they had a spin off of BTC from GBTC in July 2024 - so you need to add that back into the GBTC return to get an equal comparison or wait until August for a 1Y chart after the 7/31/24 spinoff date.

Forexisboring

GBTC has a much lower float of volume, so when it dips lower than the trend of BTC it’s likely influenced by someone selling a fair amount of their GBTC holding.

DarrinEagle

various. EZBC (Franklin), GBTC (legacy expensive), IBIT. Also BITX (2x)

Inevitable-Waltz-889

I did this when GBTC was trading at a huge discount.  Basically got a 40% gain just off the ETF conversion.

Solnse

I converted my 401k to a Roth IRA when I left my software engineering job and put it into GBTC. It's up 900% in just a few years. I'm glad it's in a Roth IRA.

Ok-Sympathy9768

Bingo! This was me! I have never owned a bitcoin, or sats …and it’s not for lack of trying either ..but there were to many “what’s and if’s” at the time ..long story short… I took the orange pill long time ago and really believed in Bitcoin but I didn’t trust myself to self custody and instead bought GBTC trust shares to gain exposure instead; because it was super easy to do it from the security of a tax advantaged retirement account. I think the masses will follow a similar path and they may also need a few halvings under their belt before taking the next logical step. ETFs make the path to mass adoption easier because a majority grandmas and grandpas are not gonna be cold storing anytime soon; they will however invest in a ETF….eventually it does come full circle and now after a few halvings that the investment has grown to a point where it’s like I really should know more about the intricacies of what I invested in, like i should be setting up a node, and running it to help support the network, and maybe even learning about cold storage and those utxo things because I really don’t know about it … it’s a process … we are still way early! When people ask about BTC now..I always direct them to the ETFs first and tell them just get some exposure first because the orange pill is a big horse pill to swallow.

brad1651

I'm the last ten trading days, the flow out of GBTC is only 0.5% inflow into IBIT (11.9m vs 2,445.9m). Inconsequential.

ARoundForEveryone

I have no issue with that. I acknowledge that the lion's share of Bitcoin is held by financial institutions. And retail, we're all aware of confirmation times of Bitcoin and competing coins/tokens, and how Bitcoin wouldn't be viable in a retail setting. Buying milk should take a few seconds, not minutes or hours. I actually only hold a tiny amount of Bitcoin now. Not sure how much, but not enough to buy even a used car or anything. Probably only a few hundred bucks worth. But I do have a portion of my IRA in GBTC (and ETHE as well). Which is just Grayscale owning BTC and ETH, and loaning a portion of that to me until I retire.

AggravatingMarch6532

Thanks, makes sense as to why GBTC was traded at a premium

Ulrask

Wow, haven't looked for a while it almost doubled. And GBTC seems to be done bleeding ? Do we how much they do have left ?

AggravatingMarch6532

So i know MSTR's premium is because they leverage their holdings but why was this the case for GBTC? They're just a fund buying btc without leverage.

ARoundForEveryone

Note that any answer to this question is speculation. We can predict future mining production, total availability, and the like. We can't predict adoption, acceptance, legality, or derivative products (options, layered assets like GBTC, etc) I'm a fan of Bitcoin, and crypto as a whole, but not a fan of going balls deep on anything. Hedge a little at least. Whether traditional stocks and bonds, government treasuries, or some cash under the mattress. Never put your entire basket into one product. It's a decent way to get rich, but a great way to go broke. Diversify. Lean towards Bitcoin and crypto if you like, but don't neglect more traditional investments that have longer track records and more consistent returns.

PontificatingDonut

Dude, you got a crazy premium on MSTR right now that WILL come down. GBTC had a 100% premium in 2017 and went lower ever since. It went negative for a while and now trades close to parity. So MSTR has a 50% downside baked in before you consider where bitcoin is going. I doubt it gets included before this premium is mostly gone

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BlackRock and Fidelity have collectively acquired over $521 million worth of Bitcoin in a single day, according to blockchain data flagged by Arkham Intelligence. BlackRock's IBIT ETF address received 4,130 BTC ($436.3 million), while Fidelity's FBTC ETF address added 805 BTC ($85.2 million) through separate transfers. Grayscale also added 55.1 BTC to its GBTC trust. These institutional purchases signal growing confidence in Bitcoin, especially amid expectations of ETF-driven demand in Q3. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

arBettor

Because GBTC/BITO/IBIT price changes are since Friday's equity market close, and your +4000 change is over the past 24 hours.

CryptoAnarchyst

Jesu, I have to educate the freaking ignorant... OK... let's do this bud. Previous cycles were SOLELY retail driven, extremely limited institutional involvement if any. GBTC did it's thing in 2017, but in 2021 there was no institutional buying and the cycle underperformed because the inability of the Trump administration to effectively deal with Covid-19 pandemic left the economy crippled. During 2021 we had the highest inflation rates with real inflation being over 10% (if you bring up CPI, you're more ignorant than I thought), the interest rates started climbing up and the world really didn't know what the future was going to look like. Uncertainty kills markets and that was the first sign that Trump's incompetence was going to kill economic progress. Now let's look at the current state of crypto. Since ETFs were approved we've had tens of billions in investments flow into Blackrock, Fidelity, and Strategy has been buying up $60 billion of bitcoin to date... so the amount of inflow doesn't corelate to the amount of growth. We've gone from a MCM of 20+ to less than 10 since Trump took office and that is a much bigger metric to show an impact than just number go up... and if you don't understand the concept of Market Cap Multiplier then you really don't belong in this conversation.

plutusfortuna

Hey there! As u/MichaelAischmann commented below, we don't gamble with client collateral like BlockFi and Celsius did. Not only did they use borrower collateral for risky undercollateralized or even unsecured lending to crypto hedge funds like Three Arrows Capital, they also lost millions of client funds speculating on DeFi yield farming and the GBTC arbitrage trade. At Lantern, borrower funds are simply sitting, or if applicable, natively staked, within BitGo's insured cold storage environment.

Ok-Half-48

Keep buying. Buy calls in GBTC if you must!

Different-Hyena-8724

About half. Was already decent enough from stocks about 10 years ago. That allowed me to be risky with BTC. Been all in on ETF's and GBTC since their inception.

GeneralZex

It should be possible to do a direct transfer without selling. Basically Vanguard transfers the stock directly to Fidelity. Start on Fidelity’s side and see what transfer options they have, they should be able handle it. In my case I used Robinhood and they handled it all and I got direct transfers of GBTC.

GeneralZex

There was a time they let me buy GBTC. Then the other ETFs got approved and they didn’t allow buying or selling of GBTC. I sold portions of my other funds moved the cash and GBTC off of there and onto RH. My other funds there have done “well enough” and it offers returns that don’t require selling anything on my part. With all the companies starting Bitcoin treasuries even regular stock funds will have exposure eventually.

AppearanceAgile2575

Combination of cold storage and traditional investment accounts in the form of GBTC. I keep a some on my hot wallet as I DCA/accumulate.

fosteju

Grayscale spun off a portion of the bitcoin held in the GBTC Trust funds and “awarded” shares of their new BTC ETF to existing GBTC holders. That’s where the massive “underperformance” stems from. As a long term holder of GBTC in my IRA accounts I already investigated this thoroughly, lol

arBettor

Futures ETFs track bitcoin much worse anyway due to the cost of rolling futures contracts. If OP is looking at those instead of spot ETFs, that's the problem. Only spot ETFs will closely track bitcoin's price, and only since they were actual ETFs (so old GBTC info will also not be useful since it used to trade at a huge premium or discount).

BoomerSooner-SEC

I just eyeballed GBTC and YTD it’s about a point and half low but I assume that’s expenses (GBTC is expensive).

LtDrogo

Many of us work at companies where our Fidelity 401K accounts can be linked into a Brokeragelink option where we can invest in a wide variety of ETFs, including many Bitcoin ETFs. I had GBTC in my 401k for years, and converted into a Fidelity's bitcoin ETF after the SEC approval.

Smoking-Coyote06

>Noob question: this level of concentration is not “dangerous”? Depends on your perspective. Strategy has less than GBTC at its peak, and less than IBIT now. The concentration is like 2%. >What if he suddenly sell big % of his position? Short answer. More selling pressure means price would go down giving more supply for buyers. But Why would he sell a big % of his position? If you listen to a significant amount of his talks you'll understand that he's a bitcoin maxi. Btc is the exit. He doesn't consider the bitcoin a "position." He considers it pristine digital property that it finite and that is "going up forever, Laura"