FTX

FuriousNSX

So be bullish on Enron and FTX?

OkSeries5363

If FTX users had held their own keys in any personal wallet hot or cold, their funds would be safe? A hot wallet, the keys are stored on a device connected to the internet, like a phone or desktop app. It's convenient for transactions. A cold wallet, the keys are stored on a device that is kept completely offline, like a hardware wallet. It's the most secure way to store crypto. Both hot and cold wallets are non custodial, which means you and only you control the private keys. Someone who held their Bitcoin in their own hot wallet was completely unaffected by the FTX collapse.

BrainCelll

Yeah tell that to FTX users

DiamondG331

Oh, I’ve learned a lot. I had a whole lot more bitcoin but sold it for Solana and tons of other alt coins that basically went to nothing and my NFT’s were stuck on FTX but at this point, I am sticking with bitcoin related investments.

Grunblau

Hence, I used “generally” because it was around there for a few weeks of the worst possible FUD campaign, FTX blowup an SBF trial. If you bought during that fiasco, you are feeling pretty good right now…

Obsidianram

Yeah, let's totally ignore the *real corruption* that has been SBF, FTX and all the Democrats he was feeding,..like so many panicking rats when the ship went down...

Delushuss

I’ve been with CDC for 5 years and never had a problem. It’s great for beginners and I’ve learnt heaps in the at time, like the difference between the app and the exchange. I must admit, I was a bit nervous when FTX went under but CDC has been fine and earned my trust over time.

edmcryptodad

I love CDC. I’ve been with them for almost 5 years and I haven’t had a single issue with them. They’re trading fees are comparable to any other exchange. People complain about their support but again, I’ve never had a problem. They answer my questions and for the couple of minor problems I’ve had, they’ve fixed it easily. I’ve also made nothing but money from holding CRO and by using their card and collecting cashback rewards. It’s usually uninformed people who feel this way. They survived the turmoil during the FTX and Celsius collapses and have had no problem verifying their reserves. They are also very compliant to international regulations regarding crypto so that they can stay operating within their frameworks. They’ve grown steadily over the years and have huge corporate collaborations with things like UFC, Formula One and even their crypto.com Arena in Los Angeles. They don’t get that big by being shady.

NiagaraBTC

I buy things all the time with Bitcoin. Beer, ice cream, burgers, creatine, BJJ membership, water, etc. Anonymous is not the point of Bitcoin though Bitcoin can easily be sent with excellent privacy. Account at coinbase is a great idea. Why not have one at Quadriga or FTX too while you're at it LOL. The ETF isn't a terrible option as an investment but it's clearly not equivalent to self custody Bitcoin, all things considered.

Few-Spread-5403

This! I have a gut feeling MSTR will be the next cause (or accelerator) to push the crypto market into the next bear market. Just like FTX did in Nov. 2022.

wtfamidoingngoing

Just get a Trust Wallet. I lost over $100k on an exchange that collapsed with the FTX scam.

MycoHost01

Next FTX is being set up!

decadearray

FTX!!!!!!! 💁🏼‍♂️

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The White Whale, a crypto trader, accuses MEXC of freezing $3.1 million of his funds and demanding in-person KYC verification in Malaysia, which he deems unsafe and against the exchange's Terms of Service. Legal action is reportedly unfeasible due to MEXC's structure, prompting a community-driven campaign for accountability. The case highlights broader concerns about centralized exchanges' transparency and proof-of-reserves practices, echoing fears of another FTX-style collapse. MEXC denies misconduct but maintains its stance on compliance requirements. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

DigitalHierophant

One day you all will learn to keep your funds off these Centralized Exchanges. Have we learned nothing from FTX?

fairlyaveragetrader

I'm not sure but I'm going to be mad if it actually gets there 😂 I bought two BTC and 2018 and felt like a champ paying my house off in 2021, picked up another half during the FTX crash, sold the majority of it by now but still have some. Actually come to think about it I already did have one of those situations where I spent a few thousand dollars on a crypto related product only to watch it go up like a hundred x in 2021. I felt pretty good turning 3,000 into 7,000, at the top my 3000 would have been worth a little over $300,000

21Moto

All in. Once you are 2-4 years into it the down swings don’t matter if you are employed or have a business and making regular pay. Even through the FTX slump just kept stacking. I only keep enough cash to make my bills and when the next pay day hits I stack all the cash from the previous pay period. I also DCA2BTC every week day $20.

Bad-practice

Lol, accumulated with dca around 10k and saw it drop to 2.5k. Believe me. Still depressing as f*k. Not the end of the world but you feel so stupid for believing so much in that 100k, and then FTX comes along. So my 2 sats: Wait another 12 months. If the bearmarket didn’t hit yet feel free to do a lump sum then.

nmarko91

Again, all of these are not facts but your opinion.. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you dont know what you are talking about and answer but its my last reply since it seems like you already have made up your mind: 1 MCO -> CRO swap was already discussed multiple times.. Originally CDC started ONLY as a crypto card where the amount of MCO was enough.. however, they scaled the business to the exchange, blockchain, and other services like loan etc.. so simply if you want to grow/scale as a company, you need to have more to offer hence the swap.. Was it a popular move? No, of course not - was it a good one in long term? I guess so, otherwise today CDC would be a debit card thing only, MCO was not designed to support 1/100 of what CDC has become. Also, the swap wasn't bad in terms of $ value, in terms of total supply and % of what you owed of course it was bad.. 2 CDC didnt rug credit card holders at all, nobody promised you anything forever and then went back on it. They advertised in the full bull run/altcoin season when their volume was high and they could pay the high(er) rewards.. When it was obvious that the winter is coming, the volume and business dry they were the first company to reduce the rewards and everyone was saying "its over, they are insolvent, get funds off, etc etc" fast forward, it was a GREAT decision for holders, because the ones that moved to the companies that didnt do it like FTX, Voyager, Celsius, Nexo, etc.. all got rekt and most of those companies went bankrupt because they couldnt run business the same way in bull market and bear market because simply there are not really nearly same amount of influx of money for CDC to offer those rewards 3 70B of unminted supply is over 5 YEARS, and again there is a different angle than what you are saying - the chain was dead, CRO has no upside for last 2 years.. In order to fund new development, incentives, partnerships (and bribes) they need money. All companies do this, the profitable companies raise funds to further their grow and scale, they don't use their own profits... None of these recent developments would not happen without this so if you'd rather cronos be a dead chain then yeah, unminting was bad.. something drastic needed to happen and let's see what comes out of it.. have we just continued to go on the same path the last few years, CRO would certainly be on a path to dead. People like you trash on CRO any chance they get, yet support BNB and give it as a "good example" because they artifically pump the price by doing the buyback and burning their supply. Sure, its good for your bags but thats shady as shit, aslo their previous CEO literally went to jail for BNB doing illegal activities but lets pretend it doesnt exist because "they burn supply" xD Again, its PERFECTLY fine to not like the decisions they made, to hate Trump and to not invest in CDC/CRO - 10000000% its fine, but dedicating hours every few days into marketing your opinion is "facts".. I'm just worried about you buddy, do you really have no better thing in life to do?

TodayNo6969

Any crypto with a ceo/creator that has "israeli"/zionist ties. Including exchanges, I'm looking at you FTX.

piggleii

BNB, because Binance is so shady. I prefer FTX. That SBF guy is such a smart guy. I trust him with my entire portfolio! Not like the _shady_ Binance.

ElderMight

There's absolutely no way that's true. Exchanges have a long history of losing people's coins in the hundreds of thousands, worth billions of dollars. From ChatGPT: - Feb 2014 Mt. Gox ~750,000 BTC customer funds (850,000 BTC incl. company funds; later ~200k BTC found) ≈ $473M (value cited near filing) Gox reported ~750k customer BTC + 100k of its own “worth around $473M” near the time of bankruptcy; later said total missing ≈650k after finding 200k BTC. Aug 2016 Bitfinex 119,756 BTC ≈ $72M One of the largest single-incident BTC thefts from an exchange. Sep 2012 Bitfloor 24,000 BTC ≈ $250,000 Hot-wallet theft disclosed by the exchange. - Jan 2015 Bitstamp ~19,000 BTC ≈ $5.1M Hot-wallet compromise; exchange later resumed operations. May 2019 Binance 7,000 BTC ≈ $40–41M Single withdrawal during a “large-scale” breach; Binance covered user losses via SAFU. - Sep 2018 Zaif (Japan) 5,966 BTC ≈ $59–60M Hack of Tech Bureau’s Zaif; BTC portion explicitly reported as 5,966 BTC. - Jul–Aug 2011 Bitomat (Poland) ~17,000 BTC ≈ $220k Operator lost access to wallet.dat; exchange put up for sale to repay users. 2022 - Celsius lost $4B in BTC, FTX $8B in customer funds misplaced + a nearly $500M hack on day they filed bankruptcy, Voyager lost $1B+, and Blockfi $300M

PlastinatedPoodle

That worked well for FTX and Blockfi users.

leftyrancher

Awesome, that completely eliminates that concern! I'd be wary if it had a mandated limit for withdrawal, because that would imply that they want you to keep your stack on their server for... reasons... lol. But, having no mandated limit and allowing you to choose your own (if you want) is a very good thing for security! Do they have good metrics / fundamentals? i.e., is there little reason to suspect their exchange will crash or go bankrupt and they'll steal everyone's BTC like FTX or whatever?

eskaralakktua

Bro out here already writing FUD fanfiction for 2035. Bitcoin’s survived governments, bans, China, Mt.Gox, FTX… but yeah, Skynet wallets in 10 years will be the final boss

magic-karma

I know it is unpopular, but I want to say that custody is an important and personal decision. There are pros and cons to it which should be evaluated by each holder to determine what is most appropriate for them. Further, Coinbase is not like any of those listed as they have specifically leaned into regulation and regulatory transparency. The companies mentioned had to/wanted to avoid regulation and sought out jurisdictions to avoid oversight. Coinbase not only operates as a US company but further as a public company is subject to more oversight in meeting exchange requirements which as published quarterly I’m in NO WAY saying they cannot or won’t fail; I’m saying that a failure like Celsius or FTX is much lower as there are far more eyes on it. There are advantages to keeping assets in custody. Each person should evaluate this very important decision and decide for themselves, after having weighed the pros and cons of each.

joannew99

something "felt off" bc crypto-smart people were alerting everyone weeks before it happened. I successfully got 99% of my ETH off Celsius like 2-3 days before they froze withdrawals. I almost got f\*ked by the whitelist thing but luckily I had a few days to spare between Celsius, FTX, Voyager, and LUNA (went from like $90 to $0 in literally 2 days) that was the most brutal experience in crypto I ever had. There was also massive fear in DeFi.. BTC was already falling from its $69k ATH. But those CeFi failures and LUNA going to $0 made it exponentially worse and that's how BTC ended up below $20k just 2 years ago.

noviwu97

This is bullrun bro, nobody cares about self custody until another FTX / Celsius happened.

jdickstein

Enron’s a great example of why due diligence works. A company called Digeny looked to acquire Enron a few months before its fraud was revealed and it collapsed. Digeny announced the deal and went into due diligence. Within a week or so they walked away. Enron had been able to fudge audits of the financials they shared with the SEC and the public as they had a complicit accounting firm. But Digeny also came to the table with an army of very smart accountants and lawyers who had no motivation to go along with the fraud. Those accountants and lawyers were actually very motivated to find problems - because problems can knock down the price. FTX had a similar situation. They wanted to sell and Binance came to the table. Almost immediately after receiving their financials Binance walked away and soon after FTX had collapsed - many say because of this act of walking away. When a giant company comes to the table to purchase another company, it’s very hard to hide fraud from their lawyers and accountants in the process of due diligence.

onetruecharlesworth

I’m of the mind most won’t own bitcoin directly for a while, it’ll take a 16102 style seizure /FTX style blowup of like blackrock and JP Morgan chase simultaneously for fucking around with paper BTC or some kinda “sophisticated” investment strategy. They’ll be the horror story their sons and grandchildren remember as a cautionary tale as to why they self custody. not until then what we see the level of mass individual adoption, but the thing was meant for in my honest opinion. I almost feel like we have to have a great depression style lost generation of people that just get absolutely wrecked as we transfer from Fiat to bitcoin

PoisonWaffle3

"Not your keys, not your crypto." No offense intended, but every bull run brings in a lot more new people that haven't had the pleasure of being rugpulled before. It also prompts a lot more rugpull schemes to be created, which tend to prey on these new people. When the bubble inevitably pops and the market crashes (as it has done each cycle so far), a lot of legitimate companies that never intended to rugpull anyone end up taking their customers down with them. I personally had multiple BTC on both Mt Gox and on FTX back in the day, but because I kept my crypto in my own wallet I wasn't impacted at all when they went under. There have been dozens (if not more) of exchanges and platforms that have gone under (or been rug pull schemes) over the years, and I'm sure there will be another round of them this cycle. The only way to keep your crypto truly safe is to keep it in your own wallet. The only crypto that I own that I don't keep exclusively in my own wallets is: \- Airdrops and various other freebies that aren't worth enough to bother with moving. A few hundred bucks worth of junk mail that may or may not have enough liquidity to even sell. \- BTC and ETH ETFs that I hold in tax advantaged accounts (401k and Roth IRA), bought with funds that otherwise would have bought stocks or index funds. These are in brokerages that existed well before crypto was a thing, and are more involved than the general market than in crypto. If these brokerages go down our economy has a *much* bigger problem.

dontcare4512789

I agree 100%. It's funny; I used to watch Invest Answers on YouTube in 2022 talking negatively about Binance, while all the shit scams he promoted (FTX, Voyager, Celsius and Luna) have disappeared, yet Binance is still here after two $14 billion bank runs. Now he's an Elon Musk fanboy, cherry-picking data to promote his agenda.

INeverSaySS

Stock brokers are regulated, crypto exchanges are not. Many CEXes have went under during the years, not to mentione FTX with many billions of dollars that went under just a few years ago. Do you honestly not see a difference between the two?

riscten

The funny thing is even after MtGox, Quadriga, BlockFi, FTX, Celsius, and all the others, some people will still be like "Holding on Coinbase/Binance/Kraken is fine, better than self-custody!" And that's with the exchanges now f'ing them with AML/KYC. Can't fix stupid.

Unlikely-Pin9555

It has only been 12 years since people had a pretty good idea there are cycles. That is not a lot of data. I would not bet my house on the timing of the cycle, the cause of the cycle, or anything besides there is a cycle. Any economy moves in cycles that tend to be around 4 years. Just because they happened every 4 years the past three times does not make it reproducible. A lot of different exogenous factors affect it, not necessarily scarcity from halving. FTX and Block Fi were not in the White paper. ICOs were not in the white paper. Black rock, Strategy and Trump were not in the White paper. TLDR: I think there is a cycle. I think the 4 years isn’t necessarily a constant. We can only guess on what the cause of cycles is.

Archophob

december 2022? That was the FTX dip, wasn't it? My son had started his apprenticeship that year. He asked me then "can i give you 200€ to put into bitcoin, i guess it'll never again be this cheap". This year he sold to buy his car.

annie_key

We all make stupid mistakes. I panicked an sold everything when FTX bombed. It's brave of you to share it, bro. Welcome to the group.

Biggtolickclit

Imagine if you had 12 through FTX and they liquidated it from 2/22/22 price. Not totally complaining…Never thought I’d see any money. At this point anybody even remember 1/2018 around $18,000…..sell offs. I got lucky and grabbed majority of mine a month later…..so still did OK? Was hoping would give half bitcoin back

FT121

I'll never understand selling something just based on price (other than actual trading obviously). If you invested in something because you believe in its value long term being higher, why sell it if you don't need the money? Despite the drop in price, due in part to forced liquidations of scams of the likes of FTX and Celsius, the fundamentals of Bitcoin had not changed.

Mrrrrggggl

Isn’t that what FTX did?

piggleii

Yeah better to use FTX. That SBF looks like a pretty smart and trustworthy fella.

VariatCA

It helps to keep a level head, and to keep an eye out for what kind of news is potentially moving the market. Whether it's macro-economic like today's rate cuts, or something specific to crypto (ETF's launching, Bitcoin Reserve adoption, Terra Luna / FTX collapse, etc). Even for specifics, depending on what coin(s) you own, it's helpful to stay on top of what's going on. Sometimes teams make huge partnerships or developments, and sometimes their team collapses or gets caught-up in a scandal or lawsuit. The S.E.C. naming specific alts as unregistered securities a couple years ago was a big one. That's why today was a relief. It was clear that crypto was dropping along with the de-risking sentiment from the rest of the stock markets, but we couldn't know for sure what the Fed's approach would be until today's meeting.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Kroll, a financial advisory firm, faces a class-action lawsuit over a data breach that exposed personal information of FTX, BlockFi, and Genesis creditors, leading to daily phishing attacks. Filed by Hall Attorneys, the suit alleges negligence and compromised claims verification processes, causing delays and losses. FTX creditors report frequent scam emails, and the lawsuit seeks damages and operational changes at Kroll. The breach occurred in August 2023, with another reported earlier in March. FTX's third reimbursement round begins Sept. 30, totaling $1.9 billion. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

heaving_in_my_vines

So we've had four "cycles" and people think they can extrapolate from that? It seems that the '22 crash was mostly due to FTX collapsing. And adoption was so low prior to 2018 I wouldn't think much of any significance can be gleaned from that performance. Yah, so I don't buy the four year cycle story.

whatwilly0ubuild

Yeah this space has matured a lot but it's still pretty wild west in some areas. At my firm we handle this exact type of R&D for clients and honestly the mechanics are simpler than most people think but the risk management is where things get complex. Basic structure is you deposit crypto into a smart contract or custodial account, they give you a loan typically 25% to 70% of your collateral value depending on the asset. Bitcoin and ETH get better rates than altcoins obviously. Interest rates range from like 5% to 15% annually depending on the platform and your loan to value ratio. For reputable platforms, Nexo and BlockFi used to be the big names but BlockFi went under during the FTX mess. Nexo is still around and has decent institutional backing. Celsius also collapsed spectacularly so that whole space got shaken up. These days you're looking at Aave for DeFi options, or more traditional players like Genesis though they had their own issues. The big pros are no credit checks, fast approval, and you keep your crypto exposure. Cons are liquidation risk if your collateral drops in value, usually pretty high interest rates, and counterparty risk if you're using centralized platforms. Liquidation thresholds are the killer feature you need to understand. Most platforms will start selling your collateral automatically if it drops below a certain value. This happened to tons of people during the 2022 crash when ETH dropped 70% and loans got liquidated at the worst possible time. Our customers who use these products successfully usually over collateralize significantly and have stop loss strategies. The ones who get wrecked treat it like free money and max out their loan to value ratios. DeFi protocols like Aave give you more control but you're responsible for monitoring your own positions. Centralized platforms handle that for you but then you're trusting them with custody. Terms are usually pretty flexible, often interest only payments with no fixed payback schedule as long as you maintain adequate collateral.

didnt_hodl

I don't like SOL for a number of reasons. First, the network sucks, they halt all the time. Second, running a Solana validator requires like a professional data center setup and it is insanely expensive. Third, SBF was investing a lot in Solana, which is not good just by itself and FTX estate has like a ton of SOL that is going to vest/unfreeze at some point and it will be dumped on the market. ETH is not ideal, but it did OK on all those points above: no halts, smooth operation even when merging or forking, running a validator is cheap and super easy, no links to shady exchanges, at least nothing intentional and hey, we now have spot ETH ETFs which will be soon adding staking. and we have ETH treasury companies. ETH is likely going to pump in a big way stablecoins run on both, so on that point it is probably a tie

Olskoolah

The old FTX trick. Binance just sells off customers BTC and buys BNB. Then when everyone panic sells BTC in the bear they only have to I give you 50% or less than it’s worth now.

AccomplishedView4709

As long as BTC price hold up, they should be ok I guess. The debt and dividends they need to pay will be a major problem down the road. Strategy so far is still insist on no selling their BTC holding. Their prospectus said they will keep issue shares to pay dividends and debt. Eventually, they will not be able to continue doing that without fully diluted shareholders value. It is going to be a concern on how they will paying those dividends in the future (their software business is not making money). May be they are betting on interest rate will go down, they will refinance in the future to pay down those debt. Their convertible notes all have very low to 0% interest rate. Those notes will start to mature in 2028. If they ever miss one preferred stocks dividend payment, or fail to pay off those notes in maturity they are dead for sure. When Strategy go down, it will have the same impact as FTX implosion to BTC and overall crypto market.

tweeboy2

So this has already actually happened! Around the FTX crash (2022-2023ish) microstrategy was at one point down almost 50% from their overall investment. Yes they could be forced to sell assets if they don’t have the cash available & their lenders all simultaneously ask for their money back

DuckDuckMosss

The only ones panicking right now are the newbies who started buying this year. I’ve been stacking since the last cycle, so I’m chilling right now. I promise you, it was way more scary to buy since the FTX collapse. The hard truth is that if you’re not saving and DCA-ing, you’re just gambling with Bitcoin

ElderMight

It's unfortunate that only 2 comments so far gave you the best advice. Bitcoin as savings must be kept in self custody. It's absolutely essential you get a hardware wallet to keep your savings safe under your control, NOT an exchange. There is a long history of sad stories of people who kept their life savings on an exchange and lost it all (Blockfi, Celsius, FTX, Voyager). Get an open source, bitcoin only hardware device. Order it directly from the manufacturer, not a 3rd party like Amazon. BTCSessions on YT has a tutorial for each of these devices and will teach you everything you need to know.

howzit-

You should give players "cold storage" for their BTC and add in a chance for exchange crash/rug pulls whatever some FTX shit you know. It will be the "Not your keys, Not your coins" card or punishment and then seize all coins not in cold storage lol. Teaching lessons!

user_name_checks_out

I agree. This time around, the dollar seems to be imploding all by itself, nothing to do with bitcoin. The implication for bitcoin is that it might be worth more in fiat terms, but the fiat will have less value. Another difference this time around, there does not seem to be another FTX. They sold paper bitcoin and absorbed a lot of dollars that would otherwise have gone into real bitcoin. If not for FTX, bitcoin might have hit $100K in 2021. I do not see an equivalent to FTX in 2025. Instead we have the ETFs which appear to be 100% backed by bitcoin.

Jenn2895

Oh, I agree with not being too confident. I bought my bags for this cycle after the FTX crash, so I guess it’s easier for me to be a little more risky than someone just entering now. Although I’m still stacking $Link. It comes down to your timeframe as well. If you just DCA into solid projects & give yourself a reasonable timeline of 4-10yrs it will be fine! Just have to weather the lows.

Realistic_Olive_6665

Once it goes below the old 2021 ATH, many people, including myself, would start aggressively buying as much as possible. At 10k, people would be anticipating an eventual 12x return when the price eventually returns to its current ATH. That’s how you know that such a price decrease is very unlikely. You would need one or more major treasury companies or ETF to fail. The price didn’t even get that low after the FTX collapse.

dormango

So you don’t understand. FTX was a scam in itself.

Sassy_Allen

A lot of people don’t realize that when ICP launched, Binance and FTX had futures trading before the token was even public. That let insiders push the price up and then crash it, which is why the same old chart still gets thrown around today. Bringing up the launch price now is mostly just cope, because even with that rough start ICP has kept pushing major upgrades and pushing the limits of what blockchains can actually do. Most projects are still talking about features ICP already has live, let alone what is planned next. The focus should not be on the launch price but on how far ahead ICP is compared to all the other blockchains.

SatisfactionOne3852

He will be the next FTX

lagom_kul

A few years ago analysts consensus was 100k before the FTX implosion. I like to think they weren’t wrong…just early.

cryptoyeeyee

Zero percent chance. If u havent figured out how this game has shifted and is played now then ur shit outta luck. All these alt coins with sooo much “use case” drastically under perform large cap coins and random shit/meme coins. The “use case” narrative has played out. There are tons of coins with supposed use case and alot are legitimate use case scenarios but the market doesnt care. Thats because overall this is still a super speculative market. And big money isnt buying small to mid market cap “use case” coins. Big money is flowing into the top dogs. Bitcoin,eth,sol etc… and there is not enough retail money in the market like there was back in late 2020 early 2021. Ya know from all the stimulus checks,extra money on ppls unemployment checks etc…and there isnt that massive influx of new “investors”/new money coming in from everyone being locked down. Having nothing better to do then try to act like they are day traders and dump (lose) dollar after dollar into coins trying to make a play. A majority of those people done lost their money and have exited the market years ago. So crypto has lost all that extra free government money as well as alot of investors/traders in general compared to the previous bullrun. We also cant forget to mention leverage. A somewhat big factor in my opinion. The market was so extremely over leveraged in the 2020-2021 days which allowed ungodly amounts of money to move around the market. Of course after the house of cards came tumbling down (Terra Luna, FTX, 3AC, BlockFi etc) all that leverage/money was wiped out. And things have gotten more strict since then due to various rules and regulations. So Ur only hope of holding anything like ergo is that something massive happens or takes place and crypto twitter (X) latches on and creates the hype to get everyone interested and buying it. Otherwise ur only other hope is lotto plays. Buying into new coins and hoping they eventually pop. I mean if ergo got listed on major Cex’s that would generate some (short lived) interest and likely make the price move but not “wen lambo” types of moves. Sorry for the rambling. Thats just immediately what came to mind after reading your post. Obviously i could be completely wrong with my gauge of the market now vs last bull run so take what i say with a grain of salt. Hope ergo does play out for u tho and u make the big bucks!

YodasLeftNut

I personally don’t think $1 million is happening this year or even next… but hypothetically, it would probably involve an economic crisis or a massive paper bitcoin scheme. 1. The crisis: There could be a thousand different crises, but one of the more likely ones is America and/or China defaults on its debt (or any number of similar debt related crises) causing EVERYONE to rethink the value of government bonds, real estate, and traditional equities. Hard assets like gold and bitcoin would be very attractive. With the WEF now being commanded by Larry Fink (the one who casually accumulated almost a MILLION bitcoin for BlackRock in a short time) would likely encourage countries, companies, banks, and individuals to stack bitcoin. Still would require a metric shit load of capital to move the price to a million, but a crisis could necessitate it. 2. The paper bitcoin scheme: I don’t have any evidence nor do I think it’s likely, but every crypto cycle usually has a good scam to accompany it (I.e. FTX). What could happen is that one or multiple of these institutions “accumulating bitcoin” may have not been getting any and instead just getting a paper entry saying they have Bitcoin (someone could theoretically just need to validate the blockchain to verify). With this, it’d be possible for the bitcoin seller to accumulate capital without actually selling Bitcoin. This artificially keeps the price low because the intended capital is not going into Bitcoin. The way this turns into a million dollar price is the scheme blows up, the victims sue/get legal justice, and the intended capital gets dumped into Bitcoin causing a price explosion. Again, don’t really think these are realistic expectations, just some “fun” hypotheticals. Realistically, I’d expect these million dollar predictions to play out on the 10+ year time horizon.

SeverusSchnaps

You are correct here, although the way you try to validate your point is a bit passive aggressive. Anyway, we've had Covid, FTX, Luna, supply chain shock and massive layoffs due to the pandemic . I still think - despite me having the year wrong as you kindly said - could not been predicted with any chart. That would mean that this year (also November?) we see another bear upcoming. Personally I don't see those bearmarkets happening anymore, especially such a long one since there is more and more institutions and companies buying BTC and ETH. Might we see drops of 20 to 30% meanwhile? Probably. But I've been told those are healthy. I wouldn't see BTC crash to 70k levels anymore (or lower) since that would be a problem for the Strategy 's and Sharplink of these times.  Previously ETH and BTC were retail driven, now it's ETFs.  Anyway, who am I, just a stranger on a forum.  Happy Sunday y'all! 

Simke11

‘22 wasnt as bad as previous bear market, despite Terra, FTX and others. Dec ‘18 bottom marked 85% drop in BTC price from ‘17 ATH, while Dec ‘22 bottom marked 65% drop from ‘21 ATH. And look, 4 year space in between again. Another coincidence?

VariatCA

And all the "4-year cycle" theory required to stay on "clockwork" was a gigantic black-swan event like a global pandemic, creating economic shutdown/stagnation and sky-high inflation so bad that it cut the legs out from under the 0%-interest free ride that the market had enjoyed for so long. Remove that from the equation, and Crypto still would have seen some damage from the Terra Luna and FTX collapses, but it wouldn't have been *nearly* as bad a downturn as what we saw through 2022.

VariatCA

FTX didn't collapse until November *2022*, basically a year after the market had shifted bearish after they had topped in Nov' 2021. Most of the damage had been dealt by that point, though it took one last leg-down prior to Crypto shifting back towards positively-trending on New Years Day 2023. The Bear Market hit Crypto alongside the rest of the markets getting hit, especially the Tech sector, when Covid shutdowns and Inflationary data were proving too much for the markets to absorb without a firm reaction. The Fed didn't raise interest rates in 2021 at all, but what they *DID* do, right in November 2021 when we started spiraling downwards, was publicly begin to taper-off their asset purchases which sent out a pretty loud signal that they were shifting policy to combat inflation. This meant rate hikes on the horizon, and the big players knew it & began selling off nice and early.

Simke11

The fuck you on about? FTX marked the bottom of the bear market. It started jn Dec ‘21, following 4 year cycle pretty closely. What you think was the start is irrelevant since you don’t know what you are talking about.

whataboutbenson

Could be even less if we have fewer insolvencies a la FTX and Celsius etc. Or could be even worse if Tether or Strategy bite the dust.

SeverusSchnaps

The bear happend as "clockwork"? So, nostradamus, did we forget about FTX, Luna and the whole market being flooded with Tomb ponzis.  I think the bear was there suddenly. FTX collapsed in November 2021 and everybody was coping. That was the true start imo of that bear. 

reddit_the_cesspool

I appreciate the info, thanks. I stopped paying attention for the most part after the FTX fiasco. It’s impressive that Saylor never strayed from his convictions. I remember when he entered the space and people had varied opinions about him. Makes me smile that he showed the doubters that he really is looking long term. As anyone in the space should.

Lufia321

I said this the last few times, then it kept crashing. FTX put me off for a few years, but now I will keep DCAing.

CarlBMenger_

I just say Celsius, FTX, BlockFi….

Captain_Planet

The treasury companies are a massive risk. They are using leverage so if there is a big drop in price they have to start selling fast to stay afloat. They are a house of cards. I honestly think they will be the FTX of this cycle. Don't get me wrong, I'm a bitcoin maxi, been here since 2013 but all predictions I've seen have been wrong (some got lucky but a broken clock is right twice a day), the 4 year cycle and the timing of it is the only consistent thing. The peak won't be as crazy this time but the draw down won't be either.

TheLichSnailss

Personally, I thinks it's 2020 all over again. The market had to naturally recover from FTX, Celsius, Voyager & LUNA USD & any other catalyst that tanked the market. Had none of that happened who knows where we would be at.

everythinkinky

Solana hasn’t killed eth in anyway. They serve different purposes. And the reason it was at $10 was FTX crash. Remove that anomaly, adjust for risk and they have performed about the same.

Key_Impress_5498

Too many instances of exchanges “stealing” crypto. Not your keys, not your crypto. Period. I almost lost a significant amount of BTC at BlockFi years ago because I was enticed by their crypto high yield interest accounts. About 2 weeks before they were caught-up in the whole FTX fiasco and literally halted all withdrawals, I moved everything into cold storage. F exchanges for anything but immediate swaps or heaven forbid, cashing out in garbage fiat.

graytleapforward

I've done 7x on BTC since the FTX meltdown 💀

will2002g

I have mines on exchange since 2021, I prefer the publicly traded US companies. Now with more regulation I think we pass the FTX/Voyager/Blockfi etc.. debacle. Also when u need to sell it you have to put it right back on an exchange. Therefore we need the exchanges to sell it on. I don’t think the powers that be would allow the exchanges to fall like in the past. Crypto has come a long way with wayyyy more room to go! Have an exit strategy!

Own_Sky9933

It’s only “safer” if it’s setup correctly. If you aren’t going to buy a YubiKey and take 2FA seriously. Then might as well just buy the ETF. Coinbase while it has high fees I does in my opinion have the best long term storage option if you pair YubiKey for 2FA with their “vault” feature which requires to emails and a time delay to unlock. You still have exchange risk aka Gox and FTX. But going to be pretty hard to get hacked or user error your funds away.

Sassy_Allen

Price movement does not change what the technology can do. ICP’s drop after launch had less to do with the tech and more to do with the fact that FTX and Binance launched perpetual futures before it was even officially live, creating a way to short it heavily from day one. That crash served the interests of those already invested in competing chains because ICP’s capabilities are a direct threat to their positions. If anything, being down now means the upside is bigger once people catch on.

analiza1992

You could try CoinStats or Delta.. they both let you track your BTC buys and show them on the chart. Blockfolio (now FTX) also used to do that, but CoinStats is probably the cleanest option now.

dmitryaus

This treasury narrative will eventually get old and they are likely to become another FTX however, Trump will bail him out if that happens within the next few years.

ElPeroTonteria

I’m just gonna say it and catch the downvotes… I saw FTX fall too I rode that red all the way down too… I’ve seen more people lose funds in self custody than I see from a CEX dump… Now me, I’m pro self custody. But you need to understand what you’re doing and there’s no tech support out there for you. Bad links and deceptive contracts and you’re emptied out… The human error is real. So plan for yourself first.

luftgitarrenfuehrer

Probably would have if it hadn't been for FTX being a giant scam.

luftgitarrenfuehrer

There was a pretty good article posted on this sub during 2022 or 2023, in which the author -- a licensed investment advisor of some sort -- argued that we are never going to have another giant boom-and-bust event, because all previous such events were caused by massive fraud performed by unregulated players. 2013 was MtGox, 2017 was a combination of Bitmain's anti-SegWit FUD campaign being discovered (ending three years of lies and the stagnation they caused) and the ICO boom (with the eventual realization that all the shitcoins were stupid garbage), 2022 was FTX. He was very certain that the ETFs would be approved (although I think he and everyone else expected it to happen quickly under Gensler, rather than being dragged out for three years because the Democrats hate crypto) and that because investment would be happening through channels that are regulated and are actually forced to purchase the assets (unlike FTX and MtGox, which lied about owning the assets, in MtGox's case because the BTC had been stolen, in FTX's case because Scam Bankster Fraud was stealing customers' money to give to Democrats' political campaigns), thus leading to Bitcoin becoming a trusted asset, corporations and pension funds buying it, and so on and so on, we would see (relatively) steady growth. I don't remember his argument in detail, but I do broadly agree with the "lack of scams means steadying down" part. And we're now seeing corporate interest that goes far beyond MicroStrategy going nuts, and state pension fund interest from Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and other states, and international interest growing beyond just El Salvador. I saw something an hour or so ago about how Norway's "sovereign wealth fund" has been buying exposure to Bitcoin through MSTR. So, don't expect another giant parabolic blowoff top followed by another 85% crash.

SpecialDonkey6563

That is correct. FTX went out of business just a few years ago. You should transfer your bitcoin to a cold storage wallet. Now if you have $100 on Coinbase, then it’s probably not worth the hassle. But if you have 10K on Coinbase, then you should move it to cold storage. How much you leave on Coinbase is up to you. How much are willing to risk in the name of convenience?

Xennenial

That's how it goes. I had to hold through COVID then a couple years later, I had to hold through the FTX crash along with operation chokepoint. That's how it goes. You ride out the storms and eventually the sun emerges again.

justletmesignupalre

If any big CEX goes out of business it will crush the market. See FTX.

adequate_redditor

Yeah. Price action is more muted too. Arguably it’s less exciting haha, but it’s also been less volatile than previous bull runs. 2021 was crazy with Luna, FTX, every other Super Bowl ad was a crypto ad, etc.

NPCmentality

Lol the guy on the right was promoting FTX back in the day’s while not nowing noffing about crypto back then pocketing honderthouseds letting people getting scamt

According_Sweet_6262

Kyc (know your custodian) You can take your bitcoin off exchanges into your personal wallet. Ask chat gbt about the FTX collapse

randomuser051

I think I am listening, basically people do not trust Robinhood and want to be safe in the event something happens like FTX, Celsius, etc… I just disagree on the probability that happens and the urgency of needing to move it ASAP. If I am confident nothing crazy will happen to Robinhood in the next year, then there isn’t really urgency to move my bitcoin out. I trust Robinhood more than the people on this sub, so I don’t think it makes sense to move my money out unless that changes. Was just trying to make sure that was the only thing I was missing, and it seems like it is based on responses because every answer is some form of don’t trust Robinhood, what if something like FTX happens, etc…

McKenzieSlurms

It is because one of the fundamentals of Bitcoin is it is a trustless system. When you let your Bitcoin stay on an exchange you are trusting them to be honest with your money. History shows that centralized institutions cannot be trusted. In bitcoin there are many such cases. Please look up Celcius, Quadriga, FTX, BlockFi, etc.

seusicha

Mt Gox, FTX, Three Arrows, Genesis, Blockfi, Voyager, Celsius Pick your favorite and research what happened.

Andfree1234

I wish I did too. I lost out when FTX Voyager BlockFi collapsed.

ChemicalAnybody6229

My regret is that I should have bought Sol during that FTX saga. It fell to $9 at a point.

Avalanche325

FTX was based in the Bahamas. If that wasn’t a big enough clue to stay away, nothing was.

Andfree1234

I don’t buy from other platforms only because I lost so much money when FTX collapsed. Voyager blockfi

Impossible_Ad5892

Last cycle FTX was the black swan that killed the momentum. This cycle it’s all systems GO!

Economy_Arachnid_923

Annuities are great — the best under the right circumstances. But they can be missold. Like crypto. Crypto is solid though some platforms — think FTX — were corrupt.

DBRiMatt

A single coin I'm not so worried about... I'm worried about what this cycles FTX will be!