FTX

kpooo7

I have had my BTC investment in Grayscale GBTC at Fidelity since 2021, always hearing no keys not your Bitcoin. After the FTX shit show and now this hack, sucks for people. I still have my investment and I only have to worry about the market!

No_Investigator3369

why were they shilled so heavily for so long?. it just feels very FTX like. I feel like we were one step away from having Matt Damon show off his cold card

Days_End

Nah honestly I think it makes zero impact. FTX tanked cryptos public view long before and nothing will made it recover. Trump is just one of a nearly weekly set of crypto scams. Honestly his is more "legitimate" them most his is just a way to funnel money to him from supporters and I think most of them know that. Other crypto rug pulls are just straight up scams.

SousLaFranceDeMacron

Lmao so FTX is unsafe, bitmex is unsafe, Celsius is unsafe, Mt. gox is unsafe, Ledger got its database exposed and dozen of people have been abducted as a result, coldcard is unsafe, and binance will lock your account for no reason. What a wonderful experience, what a great asset.

goofytigre

Maybe, maybe not. There are examples that support keeping it on exchange (Cold Card fiasco) or keeping it in cold storage (FTX, Celcius).

No-Kaleidoscope-7106

Why is this not a possible reality to you? I saw ICOs, bitconnect, then Celsius, 3AC, FTX and now this, but this is different. This isn't just negligence or a mistake. Give it some time, more wallets will get wiped and it won't just be weak entropy.

bigballer29

It’s like a minefield figuring what is actually safe. First it was exchanges deemed unsafe with FTX and now the cold wallets have gotten the same scrutiny.

freitoso

Well I’m with you but for years I thought by having a ledger it was not that hard to go self custody and it was necessary, specially in a post FTX environment. But I had NO IDEA wallet seed generation could be fucked up in this way and now I’m super nervous. Thinking about keeping my ledger and going multi sig with other platforms just to be safe, that snippet from the paranoid guide about dice rolling offline seems like a good idea.

JEI2E

Make up your goddamn mind about what you want to shill for, lol. First you lot are all pro exchanges, now you're mentioning the EXACT reason why exchanges should never be trusted (Mt. Gox, FTX, etc.) Pick a struggle, buddy. What is it that you want to shill? The ETFs perhaps? How long before something goes horribly wrong there? You should only trust yourself. That's the true lesson everyone should've learned after this Coldcard BS. Even if you were part of the 'lucky ones' (read: 99.9%) that didn't use an impacted Coldcard device, you should still make sure you roll your own seed + have a strong passphrase. Doing those two things, is the safest anyone will be against hacks and other possible attacks. Never EVER trust exchanges or anyone holding Bitcoin for you. Never. I don't know how many more times people need to be taught this lesson. A lot, apparently.

Legitimate_Form5449

u forgot FTX Trading ltd. Founded: May 2019 - Filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in November 2022

coffeelover9457

Spot Bitcoin ETFs were approved in the US in January 2024. As of this post, BTC market cap is \~1.2T, and some estimate losses due to the CC hack at \~100M. I think these numbers demonstrate that your belief that "ETFs are the only rational option at this point" is already shared by fellow investors. I'm guessing that people who have an investment-only interest in Bitcoin used products like CC because the ETFs weren't yet available. This incident will now light a fire under such hodlers to sell and buy ETFs (I think exchange inflows since the incident hint at this). I can imagine someone in 2023, post-FTX collapse, believing (from an investor point of view) "self custody is the only rational option at this point, prove me wrong", then the ETFs arrived.

BallisticTherapy

Bitcoin itself is secure. The method that people choose to interact with it, however, may not be so secure. if you downloaded and installed bitcoin core and generated a wallet address that way then that wallet is not getting cracked. If you use some third party hardware that has some critical flaw in the code that makes it generate wallet addresses using weak entropy as was the case with ColdCard where people are now scrambling to guess the weak seed phrases that are limited to a much smaller pool of possibilities, then you are in trouble. If your bitcoin exposure was on a centralized exchange and something happens with the exchange and you get rug pulled like what happened with Quadriga, FTX, and many others then your issue was the counterparty risk.

Ok-While-1160

Passing clarity allows massive amounts of institutional inflow into crypto, aside from ETP and pension flows. The analysis below doesn’t even account for the potential that tokenization will bring for real world asset and securities markets generally. For starters, putting asset custody, segregation, risk metrics, capital requirements, etc on exchange platforms eliminates a large percentage of the perceived risk around the industry which was garnered from the FTX/Celsius gambit years ago. Moreover, most banks currently will not use digital assets for defined banking activities in part because the law is ambiguous or doesn’t allow it, and capital metrics and accounting make doing so more or less impossible. Additionally large market makers, brokers, dealers, etc. will start to process trading in crypto assets in a similar way that they do now for other assets. This will rely in part on value generation from real world use. But we’re already seeing stablecoins, BTC and ETH be used for collateral and margining positions by CFTC regulated intermediaries. Remember crypto is 24/7 unlike tradfi. If traditional whales can make money between 5pm-9am using crypto, you bet they’ll play around. Lastly, Bitcoin has historically served as the primary gateway and liquidity anchor for the crypto market. Expanding legitimate use cases and institutional participation across the ecosystem could create additional demand across digital assets generally. A rising tide does not lift every boat equally, but greater adoption of the asset class as a whole is likely positive for the strongest networks. If regulatory clarity increases demand from institutions while available liquid supply remains relatively constrained, even incremental institutional allocation can have an outsized impact on price. This is the same basic dynamic that contributed to strong market reactions around the approval of spot Bitcoin ETPs: a new pool of demand entered a market with limited readily available supply. Obviously the caveat is that regulation alone does not guarantee price appreciation. It creates the conditions for broader participation; actual price impact depends on whether institutions allocate capital, how much they allocate, and broader macro conditions. But Clarity at least creates the market environment to drive allocation.

unknowngloomth

Dude. There's no such thing as reputable in the financial world. Mostly in crypto. FTX is a proof of it.

ubermensch1001

Bro, that's not how that works lol. I don't know what their company assets/holdings are worth, but they potentially still have things that in a bankruptcy could be distributed to creditors. This would be very different than say FTX or Celsius, where they still had large amounts of assets and crypto on hand, so it most likely would be small. There's also a possibility someone gets actual jail time if they were aware of these issues and did nothing. Again, I'm just speculating here.

ubermensch1001

I'm curious to see if this goes into full blown litigation like Celsius and FTX from 2022.

CoupleofDoms

FTX and MT. Gox were about a million times worse and Bitcoin is up exponentially since then. Bitcoin doesn’t need you, you will need Bitcoin.

ContentBlackberry0

FTX hacker never found and coins still there. Good luck

iloverunning11

Don’t know, perhaps because you’re not an absolute c&nt, I don’t think he will be charged with this though as it is fairly difficult to go after individuals in similar cases, this is not FTX, they were not holding customers’ funds, only selling devices with ToS line ‘coinkite is not responsible for any loss of customers’ funds due to hacks etc.’ So hard to say what will follow. I am rooting for the victims!

Puzzleheaded-Dot-762

They've bullied everyone who got scammed over the years. I feel more sympathy for FTX users than them. 

BigDik6355

I wouldn't be so sure to make that bet to be honest. FTX, Celsius, MtGox, QuadrigaCX, Cryptopia, BTC-e... the list of exchanges that went under is long.

LeVraiMidian

FTX

Ok-Engineering1873

"My question is why did redditors not do any DD and religiously recommended a company with between 2-10 employees to safeguard their life savings?" Reminds me of people saying FTX was a solid exchange. After the FTX collapse everyone was shocked that Caroline Ellison was basically the person in charge of their money.

tribepride25

Fidelity has a policy that if your funds are lost and it’s their fault ie from hacking (not just crypto but IRA, 401k etc), then they pay you back. That’s one of the reasons I feel comfortable with them. They also keep your crypto 1:1 without lending like Voyager, FTX did. I don’t worry about my Fidelity IRA getting stolen or hacked so I said why worry about my Fidelity crypto getting stolen or hacked

Plane_Baby

This has nothing to do with the technology. BTW, the ALWAYS happens. The sacrifice must be made. Count the amount of time something like this has happened to Bitcoin, it becomes historical and Bitcoin moves on. Inflation bug, Mt. GOX, FTX, countless other 'bitcoin is dead' article. Bitcoin will survive.

j4_jjjj

Considering this obvious scam was a huge part of FTX, im curious why anyone would give it any credibility at all?

The_Realist02

FTX blowing up in November 2022 did it for me.

Solana_Maximalist

Too many shitcoins in the space. Too many rug pulls, scams, people are shit in general. My folio is 75% bitcoin and 25% for stablecoins and solana. I treat solana as an investment of a casino. The only reason I bought it was because the VCs backing it collapsed and it was a chain for the masses. And yes I bought solana at 10 bucks after FTX collapse 😂 If FTX did not collapse I probably would only be bitcoin only.

Guava_Poppa

Yeah. But that FTX debacle has me sweating aswell. 😅

hrad95

When FTX collapsed, it gave me the opportunity to start DCA'ing at \~16k. Are hardware wallets like Trezor still safe? If so, I'll be counting my lucky stars and buying more.

quintavious_danilo

I‘m not too worried though. Last cycle we had **two major black swan events**, the collapse of Luna/UST and the collapse of FTX and a few others. Users lost **billions** in assets over night, yet BTC proceeded to go to form a new ATH at $125k.

letsdrinktothat

*I think this is completely wrong. A failed hardware wallet does not prove that self-custody is the mistake.* Maybe not, but it does expose the weakness of self-custody that proponents love to wave away. If any mainstream exchange gets hacked, they will do everything they can to make their customers whole, because they have to, or they're finished. Even customers of Mt. Gox and FTX got some of their funds back. But if your cold wallet is compromised, whether by your own mistake, or a technical flaw, your funds are gone; there's nobody you can complain to, no support, and nobody to sue. So if you're going to self custody a significant proportion of your wealth, you have to ask yourself, are you really sure that such a compromise can't happen to you?

anotherbrckinTH3Wall

Let’s not forget that exchanges have had their moments too: Cryptopia, QuadrigaCX, Mt Giz, FTX. With significantly higher losses than the current running total from the coldcard debacle. Choose wisely, risk is everywhere.

dnguyen823

lol. People aren’t gonna get shit besides what cold card to pay out which probably isn’t much. Cold card will probably go under and lawyers will get most of it. If this was an exchange like the FTX situation then there’s a better chance but since this is self custody I don’t see much coming from cold card.

PacoStanleys

I agree. There are people whose financial futures may never fully recover, and that's heartbreaking. You can't get time back, and compound growth is something no one can replace. That said, there's still more to life than magic internet money. After I lost everything in the FTX collapse, I got married a year later, had two kids, and now have a third on the way. I wouldn't trade them for a billion dollars. Money can buy comfort and opportunity, but it can't buy back time, genuine relationships, or purpose. Even some of the wealthiest people on earth have families that are fractured or estranged. For those who were affected, grieve what was lost. But if you're still here, build a life from the rubble. It's the only path forward.

Clean-Wallaby3164

Tell that to FTX victims. Self custody isnt the issue. 

Dmarine999

FWIW, I see the two as completely different. FTX and other exchanges were predominantly due to fraud. The Coldcard instance was due to incompetence. Anyway, general question was will this set us back? To be clear, I'm long-term bullish on BTC. Just sharing my inner thought.

jojowhitesox

The same thing was said about the FTX and other collapses. An all time high came 2 years later. People have short memories

satoshisfeverdream

It’s unfair to say it’s your fault for not taking the extra steps that wouldn’t normally have to be required to safely hold coins. You got screwed by incompetence and have a right to be mad. This is the new exchange hack and painful lessons are being learned. I’m fully aware this could have been me and I’m probably lucky I did just enough o have time to get out. The longer you’re around the more bullets you have to dodge it turns out. I’ve made it through Mt Gox / Cryptsy / Celsius/BlockFi / FTX and now Cold card. If I were a cat I’d surely be on borrowed time. Stay safe out there.

7chickenwings

Remember FTX? Not that long ago. Hopefully teams takes things more seriously with security now. Shitty.

DontListenToMe33

There are always tradeoffs. You use an exchange to hold your money, you’re trusting them with the security of your funds. And that can go wrong, like it did with Mt Gox or FTX. But then you at least have some chance of getting your money back - I think all FTX members are getting money back with interest, and it took a long time but many Mt Gox customers have gotten at least some money back. The bigger the company, the safer your BTC is from hackers or mismanagement. Because they tend to have good security people and are big enough to not go bankrupt before you can file a claim against them. …but then the trade off is that you are at the mercy of the big company. And trusting a big institution is exactly what a lot of crypto people want to avoid…

deltamark_btc

op makes a fair point about trust, but the conclusion is off. the lesson isn't "use a CEX" - FTX had entire floors of security people too, and nexo (cited here as a safe option) got raided by bulgarian authorities on fraud charges. it's "don't single-point-of-failure your custody." 2-of-3 multisig across different vendors is the answer, not consolidating back to a custodian. the people burned here had both trust and capital concentrated in one device from one company. that's the mistake, not self-custody as a concept. also worth noting: this affects mk3. mk4 and q1 use a different rng implementation entirely. worth knowing before throwing the whole framework out.

tenor_tymir

Ask any FTX or Bybit users what they think about that brilliant idea.

unknowngloomth

Yeah. It means you'd lose your investment and yes. There's a possibility it could happen. Didn't you hear about the FTX collapse that culminated into million losses?

GoldmezAddams

Lots of them shilled FTX, etc. It's a paid sponsorship and their job is to engage audiences. They're not security auditors or financial advisors. It's a bad look but its hard to blame them too hard. Most of them have already shilled something bad before this. We should remember what paid sponsorships are and always take advertisements and influencers generally with a grain of salt.

s1ammage

In fiat scale, FTX ‘investors lost $1.7B’ whereas this cold card situation ‘$88M has been stolen’ and rising. I know this isn’t the same. Do what you want with this.

DonTheHolder

Yes the coldcard and FTX issues. All of them have firmware from the internet. Get a ETF such as IBIT or GBTC or CEX such as Coinbase. Let the experts guard your cyrpto and tradesm Let the security experts protect your assets. Not to mention being wrench tortured, dying without a heirloom to pass on or the most important thing a simple beneficiary list with no charge such as a will or trust. Don't you keep seeing the same thing? Low end security devices that hold your wallets, low end, or solo owned exchanges with not backing or solvency? Wake up. Get good. Stop getting rekt. It's embarrassing 😳.

Whatdoesthibattahndo

Did you get the coins back or the cash value from some back-dated figure? A lot of bankruptcy claims including FTX were able to pay out because the value of the coins they were able to recover had appreciated enough to pay people out. ie You find 20% of the coins, but they've gone up 5x in value, now everyone gets "paid back" but loses out on the appreciation they would have gotten.

ComfortableUpbeat309

FTX did not collapse. Friedman scammed all the users and investors

tenor_tymir

No, I trust in my set up and I use this fiasco to buy more. This looks like to be our FTX of 2026.

Pretend-Engine7342

How is it clear man? FTX collapsed 4 years ago, OP probably already came to terms with the loss by now.

letsmeet123456

Lost more in Celsius and FTX. This is just another shit stain on crypto.

letsmeet123456

Fake story. Also FTX creditors got most of it back from the bankruptcy courts.

Tasty-Ad-1006

I think it’s a natural ebb and flow. FTX happened last time and pushed more into custody. A custodian will have a breach at some point and the pendulum swings back.

Due-Departure-8553

People who invested in FTX all got their money back. Can't say the same for Coldcard.

dheera

FTX?

JEI2E

It's still an ongoing event. If it's true that passphrases are being guessed now, then this story will definitely blow up big time. This is means that, essentially, Bitcoin is now 'hackable'. I mean, not really, but this is how it's going to get framed. A year from now, you'll see that this event will be compared to the actual big stuff like the bankruptcies of FTX and Mt. Gox.

Avalanche325

I never understood why anyone used FTX. My research went like this. Where are they based out of? Bahamas. No way. Research complete.

lifeanon269

Where are you getting that figure? For context, Bernie Madoff's scheme resulted in almost $65b in losses while the Terra/Luna collapse was $40b. The next closest crypto collapse was FTX which was $8b, meanwhile Enron was $74b. Also, the Terra/Luna losses were just measured by valuation, but that is by far not how much money was put in by investors. Compare that to actual investor money lost to something like Madoff and Enron and it isn't even close. That's not even getting into bank failures. Just outright fraud schemes.

BallisticTherapy

Tell them to diversify their holdings. Get them to self custody a portion of it so an FTX like event doesn't zero them out or losing a seed phrase either.

Northernmost1990

FTX was notorious for coming across super dodgy!!

carsonthecarsinogen

It is absolutely insane that the timeline seems to be lining up perfectly.. 2 months after FTX we saw the climb start. If that follows it will line up with what most people are expecting…

WoodenCantaloupe2964

The FTX collapse definitely changed how a lot of people think about self-custody. Glad it's been working well for you.

Gooner_93

After the FTX disaster. Self custodied for four years, so far so good. 🙏

JEI2E

Only 40k BTC moved on August 1 (that was a headline because it was 300 BTC short of breaking the day record since the FTX fiasco somewhere in 2022). Less on July 31st (the day of the attack) and today (the day after). My point is, there is still lots of Bitcoin for grabs by people that don't follow the news, don't care about the news, or simply because they're dead.

laidlow

Never stored assets long term on exchanges. Way too many have gone under with assets (FTX, Cryptopia, Mt Gox, Quadriga etc). And that's only half the problem, plenty of others have lost their funds due to their emails being hacked, phone numbers being ported etc.

Reywas3

this is way worse than FTX

zzzzzzzzz_zzzzzzzz

lol have u not heard of FTX

Otherwise-Review-712

“I've been where some of you are today. During the FTX collapse, I lost over $2 million USD “ 2 million here , 2 million there , who cares

evgeniy_pp

Most of the people will never self-custody their coins. So if we’re talking about the mass adoption the FTX collapse was much more impactful imo.

KFC_Tuesdays

We are now in the part of the bear market of pure fear, last time it was FTX. Every cycle has its catastrophe.

moviemaker2

This comment shows that you don’t really understand what happened. Something can affect a smaller number of people but be more severe. People who held on FTX (or any other exchange) were either knowingly trading security for convenience, or hadn’t done their due diligence in finding the most secure ways to store their coins. Users who did due diligence in seeking out the most secure way to self custody would have reasonably arrived at using a coldcard as one of the best options. Dice rolls were an extra option, the TRNG was considered sufficient for 256 bit entropy. This is the first time that people who didn’t make a mistake have lost coins. Don’t think it isn’t a big deal just because a smaller number of people were affected.

PacoStanleys

It was an instant Margin Call and instant liquidation. I had no ability to counteract it was all just a massive instant drain of course putting myself into that position deliberately is not compare to interesting a company that let us down but FTX compares to cold card as they had some knowledge ND made decisions that hurt a lot of people.

fllannell

like FTX' website, app, and advertisements?

Evilmoustachetwirler

That's because this sub is full of newbies, people who don't know anywhere near as much as they think they do, and trolls disguised as 'concerned hodlers'. For those who have been here long term, we remember all the exchange hacks Mt. Gox, Coincheck, Binance, the FTX crash, the block size wars, segwit. There is always something, every cycle is the same thing, doom and gloom, this is why Bitcoin will never happen, blah blah blah. And everytime the cycle turns around, those who held/stacked make money, those who didn't complain about selling at the bottom. Hacks happen, vulnerabilities are found, we learn, we upgrade, the cycle continues

evgeniy_pp

Well, it’s still much less catastrophic than FTX collapse adoption-wise. If we recovered from that, we should recover from this too.

KryptoKed

This bear market IMO has come with even more FUD than the last bear market / FTX blow up. Bitcoin still sitting at $63k is BULLISH

AggressiveAd8812

That sucks man, I lost all interest in BTC as something great when the likes of Saylor kept buying it all up. I always dreamed of getting rich off Bitcoin, made and lost a couple small fortunes. In 2017 I only had 8 BTC left and today after FTX, virtually none. I used to spend days on forums and chats with other crypto nerds talking about a decentralised world where it brought prosper to all of us but the reality is 99% of the people I've known in the crypto space have lost money and been burned badly. Some on bad trades, some on bad timing, some lost passkeys and countless people got hacked or went through Gox, Zootopia, FTX etc etc. This is just another one of those moments the solidifies to me that there isn't the regulation or security required to make BTC successful, and in the same breath the adoption many of us dreamt of years ago would in reality require such regulation and oversight that it loses the decentralised and community charm. I still DCA and put some in here and there but I share similar sentiments as you when you say I look back now and think I could have just invested in normal shares/stocks/investments with all the money I threw at Bitcoin and Crypto and the reality is I would have been far further ahead. Keep your head up though, money is replaceable, it comes and it goes. Maybe in future just diversify more. I wish you all the success in the world.

brucekeller

We are probably pretty close actually. That AI-centric fund imploding was a decent shock, not quite FTX level, but the Fed is just that much closer to easing again, and once that happens, it's crypto time. Probably building a floor around now, the sentiment on crypto for the last year has been pretty intensely negative compared to most other periods, especially for such a length of time.

binary_quasar

>Coinbase doesn't provide proof of reserves. It's only a matter of time before they pull an FTX or an MtGox. Laughably braindead take. The largest asset managers in the world, who have a fiduciary responsibility to every single person that invests with them, chose Coinbase to custody their crypto assets. Do you think BlackRock and their ilk would make that decision without consistent access to Coinbase's financials? Do you think they would choose a custodian lightly, knowing that even if Coinbase fucks up, BlackRock would *still have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients and are responsible for customer deposits?* They did an elaborate audit of Coinbase's books before making that decision and chose Coinbase precisely because their company was financially healthy and top-tier asset security practices. Furthermore, Coinbase is a publicly traded company on the NYSE, meaning their books are public as well, dumbass.

Amimir1992

And FTX

cliff_smiff

You ask hard, good questions. I don't have an answer. Forget Mt. Gox, FTX, cyclical crashes, this is a true test of bitcoin's resilience, antifragility, and entrepreneurial problem solving. The space has been forever enamored with these ideas. Now is the genuine test.

nothingbutwhammies

I keep thinking how I increased my DCA through FTX.

halt_spell

> Should have tried making your post a week ago, you would have been downvoted into oblivion. They still should be down voted and will be in a few weeks. Coinbase doesn't provide proof of reserves. It's only a matter of time before they pull an FTX or an MtGox. All this changes is that pass phrases are not optional and having a honeypot amount on a wallet using only the seed phrase is probably a good idea.

ejcitizen

2011 – 25,000 BTC stolen from Mt. Gox. 2012 – 24,000 BTC stolen from Linode-hosted Bitcoin services. 2014 – 850,000 BTC lost/stolen in the collapse of Mt. Gox. 2015 – 19,000 BTC stolen from Bitstamp. 2016 – 119,756 BTC stolen from Bitfinex. 2017 – 4,700 BTC stolen from NiceHash. 2018 – 7,000+ BTC stolen across multiple exchange hacks. 2019 – 7,000 BTC stolen from Binance. 2022 – ~3,300 BTC exposed in thefts related to the FTX collapse. 2024 – 12,000+ BTC stolen from DMM Bitcoin (Japan). ... Despite all of these Bitcoin hit an all-time high of 126K after 2024... 1350 bitcoin stolen from Coldcards are nothing burgers.

NoInterraction

Bitcoin should not need to have 3rd party tools because that opens up vulnerabilities like FTX, Coldcard.

ballistua

held liable? good luck with that. FTX holders were rugged, Celsius holders were rugged, forgot the third one but people were rugged, and no one got their money back

BmacSWMI

I think the main issue is we trust Coin Kite and their technology and did our best to keep funds secure, as we do all cold storage tech. Unfortunately the flaws were discovered by nefarious sources and not the community. I’m still a fan of cold storage and a flaw like this can happen to any hardware manufacturer, this is just the first big flaw. I still will take my chances with cold storage vs an organization like FTX that promised they had my coin and just took the money. It’s the Wild West out here and we need to act accordingly.

sh0werh3ad

This is all so bizarre. Yes coldcard had a horrendous flaw and if I would’ve been affected I’d probably be out too. But for some reason that can’t explain, this feels like a coordinated effort to get your coins off hardware wallets and into exchanges. I’ve been reading all the stories and they’re gut wrenching and I feel a lot of empathy for people affected (I don’t doubt it), but the response has been strange. People that haven’t been drained are all suggesting exchanges are somehow more secure now. Have we forgotten all the disasters, most recently FTX? There’s a long list of companies and reasons not to store your coins on an exchange. I’ve been in the space since 2016 and I’ve had a Trezor since 2017. I’ve never heard of this reputable company cold card n all that time. And I’m an active participant in listening daily to crypto podcasts and watching news, posts, etc…yet I’ve never heard of cold card. I know they’re a real company and have been around forever, but were they really the epitome of security and that pervasive? Anyway, maybe I’m just in my little bubble, but I figure I’d at least have been aware of them through marketing. Regardless, the response all still feels manufactured. As if this is the perfect use case to remove private ownership of bitcoin. Once you learn how to use a hardware wallet, there’s really nothing difficult about it. Yes, I was nervous the first 10 transactions, but that slowly went away. I still double check a Zelle payment before I send. Yes there’s no third party, but that’s the point. We are the due diligence. I’m just baffled by the outcry for moving coins to the changes. Seems highly coordinated. Stay safe out there folks. Again, I empathize with all the victims. I’m not sure what the answer is. Maybe this is just the beginning of the AI attack age.

EngineeringDesserts

I just find it so bizarre that back over a decade ago, one of the big selling points people used was how amazing it was to \*not\* have banks or any central source for currencies. Now, it’s all central exchanges that sometimes are fraudsters and screw you (ala FTX) or you have to be very sophisticated and go it alone at GREAT risk of losing access like it’s a code written on a piece of paper you have to protect with your life. I get the advantage of not having a central bank in control of monetary policy tied to a country, but a lot of times that’s what you \*want\* is to have monetary policy tied to economic conditions and broader goals.

DeepNRadish

4 years ago i lost so much on Celsius and FTX. During last peak its valued in million(s). Felt super sad but I am still here. Don't worry guys you will recover!

Shotay3

They were. "In November 2023, Zhao agreed to resign from Binance and pay a $50 million fine as part of a guilty plea to U.S. federal charges. Binance also agreed to plead guilty, and to pay $4.3 billion in fines.[3][33] Zhao was replaced as CEO by Richard Teng.[34]" Source: [Wikipedia Changpeng Zhao (Ex-CEO Binance)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changpeng_Zhao) Pardoned by US President Donald J. Trump. It's just one of many cases in crypto. FTX? Terra? And all the other 99% scam coins, meme coins and NFT's? It's a dangerous place for investments.

jungle

You may want to read up on MtGox. FTX, etc. Also, you seem unaware of how hardware wallets and seed phrases work. And of course you had to take a swing at Argentina and continue spreading misinformation. You seem uninformed on so many fronts...

m-nightwalker

People also thought FTX is too big to fail and yet it did fail. Everyone should do what they're comfortable with, if your risk tolerance is OK with cold wallet, get cold wallet, if you're OK with fidelity, stay on fidelity or coinbase or wherever the fuck you want. Everyone should just start minding their own business and stop telling others what to do or not to do.

ZascandileandoAndo

A tiny fraction of BTC has been stolen from one cold storage provider. It's certainly terrible for those affected, but cold storage is still the safest option. Compare that to the FTX or MT.GoX fiascos.

Professional_Elk_489

Kucoin and Kraken have never let me down for close to 10 years now FTX let me down bad

Dull-Philosopher-871

a.) Who carries investment levels of cash with them? b.) With a bank you have FDIC insurance, the bank has liquidity requirements, has extensive oversight that is not even fucking close to what FTX got away with. When SVB went down did suddenly millions end up in the hands of scammers? Did SVB go down because of a hack where suddenly they didn't have cash? No.

SlartibartfastMcGee

Isn’t the actual safest to just buy BTC ETF’s through a traditional brokerage? FTX was a well regarded exchange.

Odd-Fun-1482

FTX and Celsius was 100% obvious. [Crypto.com](http://Crypto.com) is the next one

Difficult-Repair1295

I've been around since 2012. Most people lose money on exchanges because their account gets hacked not because the exchange goes under. I do not like Coinbase as a company but they have the best solution in my opinion if you pair their Coinbase Vault which requires a time delay and two email address signoffs to move funds then pair it with some YubiKeys. Chances of getting hacked are pretty damn minmal especially with the physical YubiKey componet. I wish other Bitcoin only exchanges would adopt this. Cough River, Strike, etc. ETF is exposure is not a bad thing. There is obviosuly a fee associated with holidng it, but speaking as a US person can be beneficial when holding in a tax advantaged account such as an IRA or 401K. There are still shady exchanges out there. But the KYC and many of these exchanges such as Coinbase and Gemeni being publicly traded companies. Trying to compare them to Mt. Gox, FTX and the slew of others ones that went under is just not accurate. With that said I would 1000% diversify how my Bitty custody is done. Even with the ETFs probably splitting between IBIT and FBTC. Final thing to say. Is for the average Joe even if you are all self custody. Chances are you ain't really rich using Anchor Watch and some these premium services. You drop dead your family ain't tech bros and even if they figure out the treasure map you left for the seed phrase. They going to ask their buddy or family friend and they going to steal your stack.