DAO

Leithm

Dash's superpower is not really privacy but it's governance and funding model. It was the first DAO before ETH and copied by Cardano. Evo/platform finally being released may help but taking 9 years to deliver shows something went badly wrong. I believe governance is the biggest remaining challenge for crypto and Dash's model is the best out there regardless of whether it is Dash that benifits or some other project.

forro68

Dash fell because of a failed promise to bring Evolution to market, but it's actually finally launching in a few days. There's also a proposal to pay Masternode Owners for voting in the monthly DAO treasury, which would bring it back to life. See r/dashpay. Things might finally turn around for that project.

forro68

New Dash DAO improvement proposal: If you have a Dash Masternode, get paid to vote. Full proposal and it's benefits [here](https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DIP-Pay-MNOs-Who-Vote).

Significant-Turn-952

$EGO the gecko on sol. Under $500k mc. Saw ego on reddit and bought a small investment. Impressed. DAO GOVERNANCE. Multi chain. Devs doxing. In a few days. Hes from eth and has worked on many projects. Website is sick. @egogecko 🐦 can see this going to $PONKE highs fast.  WWW.EGO.TF 

One_Boot_5662

For clarity I'm not a communist, but I think the non-totalitarian libertarian concept is feasible with the right technologies. Where incentives breakdown is when the State takes over and people become mere units of production, that's authoritarian communism. A communist society with good data will recognise that "need" extends beyond basics of the merely utilitarian, and that people would need individuation, and that would be accommodated. Non monetary rewards and social status would be highly prized (NFTs), and people could guide the development of the commune by participation (DAO).

Objective_Digit

An ATH and one that covers almost the entire span of ETH's existence is not cherry-picking. >Did you know that if Michael Saylor had bought and staked ETH instead of BTC at the same times as he did This is cherry-picking. No doubt some people have donw well out of ETH but on the whole people are better off holding Bitcoin. >And Bitcoin also has a history of being censored, with how the Blockstream + Theymos cabal subverted the will of the majority of users by rejecting and suppressing Segwit2x. Sorry that's just bullshit. Bitcoin txs were not censored as was the case with Ethereum. The nodes didn't want bigger blocks. They can't be censored. >It was the response (with consensus) against an attack on the chain. No it wasn't. It was a hack of a DAO. It had nothing to with the ETH network per se. Vitalik just wanted to bail out his friemds and damn the consquences. It would never happen in Bitcoin. No one undid the Mt Gox hack.

iwakan

>No it doesn't. ETHBTC is still down 60% from its ATH from 7 years ago. Cherrypicked. The short term blips that are ATHs matters not, the long term trend is what matters. Did you know that if Michael Saylor had bought and staked ETH instead of BTC at the same times as he did, he would have earned almost *5 billion dollars more* by now, than he did with BTC? >Ethereum has history of being censored (the DAO rollback in 2016). And Bitcoin also has a history of being censored, with how the Blockstream + Theymos cabal subverted the will of the majority of users by rejecting and suppressing Segwit2x. You disagree with that interpretation of history? Well, then you probably should understand just about how I feel about your ridiculous description of the DAO fork, too. > Claiming ETh is not an altcoin is a little part of that goal to diminish Bitcoin. Jesus Christ, see this is what I mean about the conceit. I'm done with this stupid conspiracy theory discussion.

Objective_Digit

> No it doesn't have any authority. I mean this is all pointless semantics so anyone is free to use whatever label they want and draw from whatever "authority" they want. But for me personally, the only part bitcointalk plays in the history of that word is as just one more example of bitcoiners lacking the foresight to use a different word for their section about other chains, because they thought every other blockchain in the future would just be a clone/alternative of bitcoin. The Complete Oxford Dictionary would say different. Early use of terms and words is always given special attention and is cited. >It can indeed be used as a store of value and bank account alternative like bitcoin, and it does that well No it doesn't. ETHBTC is still down 60% from its ATH from 7 years ago. Ethereum has history of being censored (the DAO rollback in 2016). So it's not only aping but doing it badly. >It is not a mere alternative to Bitcoin and therefore it is not an altcoin It is an alternative. Some would say it's an attack on Bitcoin. Claiming ETh is not an altcoin is a little part of that goal to diminish Bitcoin.

jekpopulous2

Maker DAO holds $1.4B in US treasury bonds that back sDAI. Ondo also backs USDY with US treasury bonds. Binance just got the OK to use customer funds to purchase US treasury bonds. There are already billions of dollars in RWAs on chain. Also… the DTCC just completed a pilot with Chainlink to tokenize assets for 10 banks (American Century Investments, BNY Mellon, Edward Jones, Franklin Templeton, Invesco, JPMorgan, MFS Investment Management, Mid Atlantic Trust, State Street and U.S. Bank) on Ethereum. Not only are RWAs happening now but they’re happening way faster than expected.

MoonwalkerMan

Ive been watching this project since the start and have never seen a harder working dev. the launchpad is active and successful and the funds made from each launch are used to market/develop wenwifhat and also reward the DAO holders. In time i truly believe this will be one of the top projects in the defi space. check it out and join the family

choochoomthfka

The DAO entered the chat

SlimGlassShark

Listen - if/when this becomes a thing and you’re a DAO member visiting, then only 2 things matter: 1. Being respectful to yourself & others 2. Holding the DAO’s NFT It’s a life-changing experience when you’re in a space where people truly accept you as you, regardless of what you look like

SlimGlassShark

So it’s not a sexual resort right now, but I guess if it was run by a DAO, they could change the rules. Dang that would be an interesting vote on snapshot lol

SlimGlassShark

Make it a DAO and easily cut the membership price in half with a larger community supporting it

Montana-Safari7

We can't do this until the Marshall Island DAO is completed. Might be several months. Also, Moons could just become fractional at a certain point.

jekpopulous2

It’s nothing new. Maker DAO (for example) does the same thing. When you stake DAI what’s really happening is that they’re swapping your DAI for US treasury bonds and giving you sDAI (which earns ~5% interest from the bonds). The largest RWA protocol right now is ONDO and they similarly buy US treasury bonds to back USDY. This is just Binance hopping on the RWA train.

broskie94

# ## Appendix **Website details** for: * [Main website](https://aviator.ac/) * [Road map](https://aviator.ac/Roadmap) * [Flight paper (white paper)](https://aviator.ac/Flightpaper) * [Public beta for SkyBridge on Sepolia testnet](https://skybridge-beta.aviator.ac/) **Social media** links: * [Twitter / X](https://x.com/aviator_ac) * [Telegram](https://t.me/aviator_ac) * [Discord](https://discord.gg/aviator-ac) * [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/DecentralizedAviators/) **Transaction details** for: * [Token creation on 13 July 2023.](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5f17e9de6945222aa7bc7fc7c9dd97232d1c845b8d847da9c1997024ea586e2d) * [Uniswap pairing on 13 July 2023.](https://etherscan.io/tx/0xc7a80927f7bdb4e4019e87c36fcc58586de432452376bbd98ffbb0dd42a87d7a) * [Shiba Inu x Stixil transaction](https://etherscan.io/tx/0xfb5830b8bbaf51643b64017d840e2cad68c3f40d066b85827c7721ee97610135) **DAO** on Snapshot.org: * [All proposals](https://snapshot.org/#/aviator-dao.eth/) * [DAO Proposal on Coinbase Smart Wallet](https://snapshot.org/#/aviator-dao.eth/proposal/0x674df57919281b7a02990d404836211d34949d3569270324282d422eb035e103) **KYC Details** from SolidProof: [Link](https://aviator.ac/static/media/KYC_Certificate_Aviator.005b5ea25d9075741c13.png) **Bug bounty details** for the ongoing SkyBridge smart contracts audits: [Link](https://hackenproof.com/programs/aviator-smart-contracts) **Audit results** from Hacken: [Link](https://hacken.io/audits/aviator---skybridge/) [](https://hacken.io/audits/aviator---skybridge/)

PagQuankkabnp

Fluence DAO FLT could be an interesting play, given their recent campaign endeavors too

fan_of_hakiksexydays

I hope the avatar communities can figure out a way to keep them going in case Reddit discontinues them. With CC tokens like Moons, they've been able to work without needing Reddit. There's even a DAO and potential for working outside of Reddit. It might be a little more tricky to get avatars working independently from Reddit,

Mattie_Kadlec

It has never been easier to set up a mutual fund and invest in real estate worldwide, all thanks to crypto. You can put together a DAO and start raising funds and investing in a few hours now.

AuspiciousEther

True, and The DAO was crazy popular. That was also the reason a huge amount of ETH was in the contract, from maybe 90%+ of ETH holders, and this was also why the hack was considered to be a threat to the future PoS chain. Anyway, both hacks happened long ago, and are not expected to happen ever again.

Objective_Digit

Read up on the 2016 DAO.

MakeLTUGreatAgain

Difference is it wasn’t nowhere as popular or valued back then compared to the DAO hack

original_username_4

Came here to push back on ETH too. The code is the contract! So their initial use case said. Integrity is key! Trust us! Not so much when the people in charge lost money through the DAO then destroyed that integrity to get their money back. They are special and will rollback the consequences of smart contracts they didn’t get right. You are not special. If the creators of ETH can’t get it right then how do you think your ETH is safe from unintended consequences in the Smart contract code.

MakeLTUGreatAgain

What? Ethereum was ETC, once they rolled it back after DAO hack they made it ETH.

Inevitable_Editor673

Zypto - Starting in like 4 weeks? 😁 - App fully ready for upscaling and whale eyes - huge Partnerships live - real BIG Marketing hammering - volume Explosion - parabolic rewards increase - community-company contract to secure rewards for holders - "DAO" active -> listings/cmc 🤩🔥

Kallen501

>Did you think p2p was going to run in browser on a website? Shapeshift DAO runs in a browser

biba8163

Not a pseudo nation state but a DAO chicken farm in sunny Colorado may be possible

rreive

I am just now this past week running 15 nodes ok and earning nanos convertible to the new as yet to be named WEB3 Internet 2 Autonomi Network token in October , in the beta wave 2, They have about 30,000 nodes in operation on which they are debugging the logs generated... There will be more and larger beta waves where you earn tokens for running nodes on pretty well anything that generate logs to help the team debug before launch Buxton has them working like a professional software and marketing outfit... I have been following these guys since 2015, Maidsafe took some wrong turns for sure, one into the dPoS consensus wasteland, it turns out peer 2 peer wallets with digital bearer certificates (digital cash) make it all work right, your keys, your data, pay once to upload with nanos you earned from running a node, the files are triple encrypted and tripple distributed there as long as the network lasts. Autonomi Network DAO has a client+wallet with secure peer2peer comms as well to support super secure WEB3 meshes, its an XOR Addressed Contents Addressable Network with a kademlia variant which uses GOSSIP No reason why you can't run your crypto project on it, once they boot their Autonomi Name Service, completely securely away from prying eyes...

Itslittlealexhorn

>I'm talking about a situation the majority clients had over 67% of the stake, they would get completely slashed upon reverting to a previous epoch. Hence why they cannot participate in the valid chain anymore and become inactive, hence why they would eventually lose enough ETH from inactivity that the valid chain can finalize again, at which point they could re-enter. >The likely solution would be a Layer 0 community-lead, DAO-style bailout that requires a chain split + nullifying every valid transaction since the chain split. >Once miners noticed the error, they would just 51% attack their own chain to fix it. I like how in one case it's "a chain split + nullifying every valid transaction" and in the other case it's "just 51% attack" as if the result wasn't the same. That said, I doubt your solution is what Ethereum would go for. More likely they would create a hard fork that would allow the finalized chain to be ignored and for the supermajority clients to re-enter, just this once. They would still lose some ETH and no transactions in the valid chain would be lost.

HSuke

(For clarification, by "majority clients", I mean 2+ clients compromising of a staking majority. They would have to have the same bug, which is exceptionally rare, but not impossible since people tend to make the same mistakes.) > then the chain could not finalize until the supermajority clients lose their ETH from inactivity Draining only happens if they had **33-67%** of the stake. The chain wouldn't finalize, and inactivity leak would occur. I'm talking about a situation the majority clients had **over 67%** of the stake, they would get completely slashed upon reverting to a previous epoch. The likely solution would be a Layer 0 community-lead, DAO-style bailout that requires a chain split + nullifying every valid transaction since the chain split. It would be super messy. Ethereum could not fix it within the 6 minutes that's allowed for an Epoch. It would take node client developers to patch a fix, and days for the community to agree due to Ethereum having off-chain governance. At least with the DAO-style bailout, they only needed to wait until 51% of miners were onboard before picking that solution. With off-chain governance, they need an overwhelming majority of the community to agree. PoW's advantage is that only on-chain consensus is needed, not an outside fix. Once miners noticed the error, they would just 51% attack their own chain to fix it. And it only requires the top 2-3 mining pools to do it. It's much easier because Bitcoin is effectively centralized around large mining pools. Now if the top 2 mining pools disagreed on the fix, then it would be messy and take much longer for a sufficient number of individual miners to move off those pools, which could take days.

RatherOakyAfterbirth

You might want to rewatch the MIT coursework. Specifically sessions 19 and 20: Primary Markets, ICOs and Venture Capital.  He states more than once in those lectures that he believes a number of cryptos are potentially securities. Especially ones that did ICOs or that operate with a DAO.  He’s been nothing but transparent about that for years before becoming SEC chair. He also states in that lecture series that the only one he believes isn’t a security, outright, is BTC. He’s also made videos while at the SEC where he says the same. 

Objective_Digit

The DAO was hacked. Which makes the rollback even more egregious.

divinesense888

How do you feel about community run projects? Undoxxed DAO members building an ecosystem?

Antique_Ad1735

I wonder if they get any ROI. Its astounding how little DD people will do into a project. Mind you I bought Cult DAO and forgot about it as I was drunk....so I'm not shining light.

CointestMod

#TRON Pro-Arguments Below is a TRON pro-argument written by a deleted user. > ##**PROs** > > **Disclaimer**: There is little reliable information about Tron that isn't from Tron DAO or Justin Sun interviews. The official [Tron DAO Medium](https://trondao.medium.com/) site doesn't provide links to sources in the blog, making it harder to fact check and analyze. Many of its sources are from Weibo posts that are inaccessible beyond the Great Firewall of China. Tron's documentation and community posts provide way less information than that of other major blockchain projects. Nevertheless, I'm make do with what I can get. > > ####**Performance and Consensus** > > **High throughput and fast finality** > > Blocks are produced every 3s with a max size of 2M bytes. Consensus is completed using DPoS with a fault tolerance of 70% (9/27) Super Respresentatives that act as validators. There are over 350 SR/validator candidates who vote on the 27 SRs each 6 hours. > > - **High Throughtput**: **Tron can reach a max throughput of 2600 TPS with full 2M blocks** and its current balance of actual transactions, which is really high for an EVM-compatible blockchain. > - My calculations used [Tronscan data](https://tronscan.org/#/blockchain/blocks): Basic TRX and token transfers use 250-500 Bandwidth. The current average bandwidth for each transaction is currently 298, which is not that much higher than the lower end for basic transactions. > - Each bandwidth is 0.850 bytes, so you can fit 7800 average transactions in a single 3s block. Tron officially claims that it can reach 2000 TPS, so they're giving a conservative estimate. > - Even filled with 350-550 bandwidth swaps for [SunswapV2Router02](https://tronscan.org/#/contract/TKzxdSv2FZKQrEqkKVgp5DcwEXBEKMg2Ax/transactions), that's 1400 TPS on the lower end. That's way faster swaps than [everything other than Algorand](https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/the-amm-test-a-no-bs-look-at-l1-performance-4c8c2129d581). > - The tradeoff is that consensus is highly centralized (only 27 validators), and that the validators have very high requirements like having 32 CPU cores and 64GB of memory. > - In comparison, Ethereum's Layer 1 in comparison, can only do ~15 TPS average (59 TPS for basic transfers, 7 TPS for Uniswap v3 swaps). > - **Fast Finality in 3s**: All 27 SRs are currently playing friendly with each other, so for all practical purposes, finality is in 3 seconds. (Deterministic finality occurs every 27 blocks, or 81 seconds). > > **Network Energy usage** > > Tron's estimated annual energy usage for 2022 is estimated to be 1.7 kWh, or the **energy usage of [15 average US households](https://decrypt.co/108115/tron-network-energy-use-matches-that-of-15-us-households-ccri-report)**. This puts it slightly lower than the consumption of Avalanche, Algorand, Cardano, and Solana's networks. Its carbon footprint is also 4x lower than the others. And it uses 100000x less energy than Bitcoin. > > ####**Ease of Basic Utility** > > **Transaction fees are covered for FREE by freezing TRX** > > Tron has a unique design for transaction fees instead of using gas. Transactions fees are divided into bandwidth (pays for data bytes) and energy (pays for computations). All transactions require bandwidth while only contracts need energy. > > The benefit is that you get **FREE bandwidth and energy by freezing TRX**, a process similar to staking. You currently receive about 28 energy and 1 bandwidth daily [per frozen TRX](https://tronstation.io/calculator). Basic smart contracts use 350 Bandwidth (requires freezing 330 TRX) and 14.7K energy (requires staking 520 TRX). At current TRX prices, **if you freeze $2500 worth of TRX, you could perform 100 free basic transactions daily**. In addition, each account receives [1.5 kb of bandwidth daily](https://developers.tron.network/docs/resource-model) (originally 5 kb) for free even without freezing TRX, which is good for ~5 transactions. Though I suspect users can abuse this by creating new accounts. > > Any transaction fees in excess of the free energy and bandwidth are burned. This is why TRX is **currently deflationary by ~0.3% annually** (excluding burns for the USDD minting process). > > **Settlement layer for Tether** > > According to Blockchain's [Sep 2022 interview with Justin Sun](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exploring-tron-with-justin-sun-and-blockchain-com/id1536699961), **the original purpose of Tron was to act as a stablecoin settlement network and reserve network for Tether** (USDT). Sure enough, the bulk of DeFi on Tron's network deal with stablecoins. As of Sep 2022, [45% of Tether is now held on Tron](https://defillama.com/stablecoin/tether). And with Ethereum transaction fees being so high, Tron has become an attractive platform for USDT dApps. > > ####**DeFi Usages** > > **Smart Contracts** > > Tron's VM (TVM) is EVM-compatible and uses Solidity for the smart contract language. It is also Turing-complete. Thus, it's simple to rewrite EVM contracts for TVM. > > - **Tron's [DeFi TVL is massive at $5.4B](https://defillama.com/chains), putting at 3rd place after Binance Smart Chain**. > - Though it is a bit suspicious though that 99% of Tron's DeFi TVL are on 3 projects that are literally named after Justin Sun, though that could just be because it's very new. In comparison, Ethereum's DeFi is spread over hundreds of dApps. > - Tron SUN's [Liquidity Pool](https://sun.io/#/home) provides very high interest for USDD-USDT pairs at 5-70% APY. Back in June-July, you could gain triple-digit APY on Tron DeFi with stablecoins while the governance rewards boosts were still active. > > ####**Sustainable Tokenomics for TRX** > > - TRX's tokenomics have a steady, permanent issuance for validators, so it's **sustainable**. All transaction fees are burned. This isn't too different than Ethereum's tokenomics model (other than that Ethereum only burns part of the fee). > - TRX has a total circulating supply of about 92B, which is noticeably lower than their highest supply of 102B before the TRX-to-USDD minting protocol. TRX suddenly became [deflationary on Oct 27, 2021](https://tronscan.org/#/data/stats2/circulation). Supply has fallen about 10% since then due to token burns, making **TRX one of the most deflationary cryptocurrency in the top 30**. > - If we ignore the token burns from USDD minting, each day, ~5M TRX is minted, ~6M is burned (from transaction fees). **This gives net issuance of 1M TRX burned daily, or 0.3% annual deflation.** > > **Good TRX price action during the bear market** > > Tron's native token, TRX, is currently #15 in marketcap as of Sept 2022 with a [marketcap of $6B](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/tron). Its value has held up surprisingly well during the bear market, barely falling 50% while the rest of cryptocurrencies fell closer to 70-90%. **TRX is up 2x vs Bitcoin over the past year** during the bear market, pumping especially hard right around the launch of USDD and introduction of major staking and governance boost projects. > > ####**USDD, a hybrid stablecoin without UST's flaws?** > > **USDD is a hybrid collateralized/algorithmic (seigniorage) stablecoin** launched in May 2022 on Tron's network. It is one of the biggest focuses on the Tron roadmap. It was originally designed as a purely-algorithmic stablecoin based on Terra's now-failed Luna and UST stablecoin. After the collapse of Luna UST, the Tron DAO Reserve (TDR) made several changes to USDD to avoid a similar failure: > > **Differences between UST and USDD** > > 1. The biggest difference is that USDD is 300% collateralized with 11B TRX, 14K BTC, 100M USDT, and 1M USDC [Source](https://usdd.io/). **This makes USDD one of the most collateralized stablecoins.** In comparison, DAI is only 120% collateralized, and USDT and USDC are only 100% collateralized. > 1. TDR controls how much USDD can be minted or redeemed, so it's not purely algorithmic. Thus, TDR has full power to stop it from crashing. > 1. USDD will be released in multiple phases. The current phase only allows for a minting of 2B USDD. This is to limit USDD from growing astronomically quickly like with UST. [[Source](https://trondao.medium.com/improving-usdd-from-lessons-learned-e2600d7f94ad)] > 1. You're probably wondering what's the catch. There is a Peg Stability Module (PSM) that allows minting of USDD by burning TRX. You can current burn TRX for minting USDD, but **you cannot redeem USDD for TRX** [[source](https://twitter.com/TheImmutable/status/1536930692344401921)]. There is no liquidity on any of the [PSM smart contracts](https://docs.usdd.io/psm/the-psm#psm-contracts) to trade USDD for anything else. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_tron) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#TRON Pro-Arguments Below is a TRON pro-argument written by a deleted user. > ##**PROs** > > **Disclaimer**: There is little reliable information about Tron that isn't from Tron DAO or Justin Sun interviews. The official [Tron DAO Medium](https://trondao.medium.com/) site doesn't provide links to sources in the blog, making it harder to fact check and analyze. Many of its sources are from Weibo posts that are inaccessible beyond the Great Firewall of China. Tron's documentation and community posts provide way less information than that of other major blockchain projects. Nevertheless, I'm make do with what I can get. > > ####**Performance and Consensus** > > **High throughput and fast finality** > > Blocks are produced every 3s with a max size of 2M bytes. Consensus is completed using DPoS with a fault tolerance of 70% (9/27) Super Respresentatives that act as validators. There are over 350 SR/validator candidates who vote on the 27 SRs each 6 hours. > > - **High Throughtput**: **Tron can reach a max throughput of 2600 TPS with full 2M blocks** and its current balance of actual transactions, which is really high for an EVM-compatible blockchain. > - My calculations used [Tronscan data](https://tronscan.org/#/blockchain/blocks): Basic TRX and token transfers use 250-500 Bandwidth. The current average bandwidth for each transaction is currently 298, which is not that much higher than the lower end for basic transactions. > - Each bandwidth is 0.850 bytes, so you can fit 7800 average transactions in a single 3s block. Tron officially claims that it can reach 2000 TPS, so they're giving a conservative estimate. > - Even filled with 350-550 bandwidth swaps for [SunswapV2Router02](https://tronscan.org/#/contract/TKzxdSv2FZKQrEqkKVgp5DcwEXBEKMg2Ax/transactions), that's 1400 TPS on the lower end. That's way faster swaps than [everything other than Algorand](https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/the-amm-test-a-no-bs-look-at-l1-performance-4c8c2129d581). > - The tradeoff is that consensus is highly centralized (only 27 validators), and that the validators have very high requirements like having 32 CPU cores and 64GB of memory. > - In comparison, Ethereum's Layer 1 in comparison, can only do ~15 TPS average (59 TPS for basic transfers, 7 TPS for Uniswap v3 swaps). > - **Fast Finality in 3s**: All 27 SRs are currently playing friendly with each other, so for all practical purposes, finality is in 3 seconds. (Deterministic finality occurs every 27 blocks, or 81 seconds). > > **Network Energy usage** > > Tron's estimated annual energy usage for 2022 is estimated to be 1.7 kWh, or the **energy usage of [15 average US households](https://decrypt.co/108115/tron-network-energy-use-matches-that-of-15-us-households-ccri-report)**. This puts it slightly lower than the consumption of Avalanche, Algorand, Cardano, and Solana's networks. Its carbon footprint is also 4x lower than the others. And it uses 100000x less energy than Bitcoin. > > ####**Ease of Basic Utility** > > **Transaction fees are covered for FREE by freezing TRX** > > Tron has a unique design for transaction fees instead of using gas. Transactions fees are divided into bandwidth (pays for data bytes) and energy (pays for computations). All transactions require bandwidth while only contracts need energy. > > The benefit is that you get **FREE bandwidth and energy by freezing TRX**, a process similar to staking. You currently receive about 28 energy and 1 bandwidth daily [per frozen TRX](https://tronstation.io/calculator). Basic smart contracts use 350 Bandwidth (requires freezing 330 TRX) and 14.7K energy (requires staking 520 TRX). At current TRX prices, **if you freeze $2500 worth of TRX, you could perform 100 free basic transactions daily**. In addition, each account receives [1.5 kb of bandwidth daily](https://developers.tron.network/docs/resource-model) (originally 5 kb) for free even without freezing TRX, which is good for ~5 transactions. Though I suspect users can abuse this by creating new accounts. > > Any transaction fees in excess of the free energy and bandwidth are burned. This is why TRX is **currently deflationary by ~0.3% annually** (excluding burns for the USDD minting process). > > **Settlement layer for Tether** > > According to Blockchain's [Sep 2022 interview with Justin Sun](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exploring-tron-with-justin-sun-and-blockchain-com/id1536699961), **the original purpose of Tron was to act as a stablecoin settlement network and reserve network for Tether** (USDT). Sure enough, the bulk of DeFi on Tron's network deal with stablecoins. As of Sep 2022, [45% of Tether is now held on Tron](https://defillama.com/stablecoin/tether). And with Ethereum transaction fees being so high, Tron has become an attractive platform for USDT dApps. > > ####**DeFi Usages** > > **Smart Contracts** > > Tron's VM (TVM) is EVM-compatible and uses Solidity for the smart contract language. It is also Turing-complete. Thus, it's simple to rewrite EVM contracts for TVM. > > - **Tron's [DeFi TVL is massive at $5.4B](https://defillama.com/chains), putting at 3rd place after Binance Smart Chain**. > - Though it is a bit suspicious though that 99% of Tron's DeFi TVL are on 3 projects that are literally named after Justin Sun, though that could just be because it's very new. In comparison, Ethereum's DeFi is spread over hundreds of dApps. > - Tron SUN's [Liquidity Pool](https://sun.io/#/home) provides very high interest for USDD-USDT pairs at 5-70% APY. Back in June-July, you could gain triple-digit APY on Tron DeFi with stablecoins while the governance rewards boosts were still active. > > ####**Sustainable Tokenomics for TRX** > > - TRX's tokenomics have a steady, permanent issuance for validators, so it's **sustainable**. All transaction fees are burned. This isn't too different than Ethereum's tokenomics model (other than that Ethereum only burns part of the fee). > - TRX has a total circulating supply of about 92B, which is noticeably lower than their highest supply of 102B before the TRX-to-USDD minting protocol. TRX suddenly became [deflationary on Oct 27, 2021](https://tronscan.org/#/data/stats2/circulation). Supply has fallen about 10% since then due to token burns, making **TRX one of the most deflationary cryptocurrency in the top 30**. > - If we ignore the token burns from USDD minting, each day, ~5M TRX is minted, ~6M is burned (from transaction fees). **This gives net issuance of 1M TRX burned daily, or 0.3% annual deflation.** > > **Good TRX price action during the bear market** > > Tron's native token, TRX, is currently #15 in marketcap as of Sept 2022 with a [marketcap of $6B](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/tron). Its value has held up surprisingly well during the bear market, barely falling 50% while the rest of cryptocurrencies fell closer to 70-90%. **TRX is up 2x vs Bitcoin over the past year** during the bear market, pumping especially hard right around the launch of USDD and introduction of major staking and governance boost projects. > > ####**USDD, a hybrid stablecoin without UST's flaws?** > > **USDD is a hybrid collateralized/algorithmic (seigniorage) stablecoin** launched in May 2022 on Tron's network. It is one of the biggest focuses on the Tron roadmap. It was originally designed as a purely-algorithmic stablecoin based on Terra's now-failed Luna and UST stablecoin. After the collapse of Luna UST, the Tron DAO Reserve (TDR) made several changes to USDD to avoid a similar failure: > > **Differences between UST and USDD** > > 1. The biggest difference is that USDD is 300% collateralized with 11B TRX, 14K BTC, 100M USDT, and 1M USDC [Source](https://usdd.io/). **This makes USDD one of the most collateralized stablecoins.** In comparison, DAI is only 120% collateralized, and USDT and USDC are only 100% collateralized. > 1. TDR controls how much USDD can be minted or redeemed, so it's not purely algorithmic. Thus, TDR has full power to stop it from crashing. > 1. USDD will be released in multiple phases. The current phase only allows for a minting of 2B USDD. This is to limit USDD from growing astronomically quickly like with UST. [[Source](https://trondao.medium.com/improving-usdd-from-lessons-learned-e2600d7f94ad)] > 1. You're probably wondering what's the catch. There is a Peg Stability Module (PSM) that allows minting of USDD by burning TRX. You can current burn TRX for minting USDD, but **you cannot redeem USDD for TRX** [[source](https://twitter.com/TheImmutable/status/1536930692344401921)]. There is no liquidity on any of the [PSM smart contracts](https://docs.usdd.io/psm/the-psm#psm-contracts) to trade USDD for anything else. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_tron) to find submissions for other topics.

Inevitable_Editor673

Starting in like 4 weeks? 😁 - App fully ready for upscaling and whale eyes - huge Partnerships live - real BIG Marketing hammering - volume Explosion - parabolic rewards increase - community-company contract to secure rewards for holders - "DAO" active -> listings/cmc 🤩🔥

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; A threat actor compromised Ethereum's mailing list provider, sending a phishing email to over 35,000 addresses, directing them to a malicious site with a crypto drainer. The attack, disclosed by Ethereum, occurred on June 23 but had no material impact on users. The phishing email promised a 6.8% APY on staked Ethereum through a fake collaboration with Lido DAO. Ethereum's security team acted swiftly, blocking the attacker and warning the community. On-chain analysis showed no recipients fell for the scam. Ethereum is taking steps to prevent future incidents by changing email service providers. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

BradVet

Total JUP already known, rewards were set aside during initial airdrop and part of DAO

MinimalGravitas

Haha, yea it's not completely intuitive, but then I don't think there is a perfect system anywhere. If you get involved in the DAO side of crypto then you'll quickly realize that governance is a very complicated problem to try to solve!

ProfitableCheetah

Yeah, they have a ton of third-party risk. The good thing is that Lido and Maker DAO are very reputable projects in the space so an exploit isn't very likely to happen but you never know…

nyydan

I understand your point, but the fact that things work that way is precisely what makes the system function. Games will hardly collapse because these economies are self-sustaining Obviously, everything will depend on each game and its success, but let's not pretend that a game, just because it is part of SuperVerse, will have the same capabilities as another game that is part of the same DAO. Obviously, there will be more profitable games than others, but that feedback is what allows all economies to converge at a single point, and that is key to the solidity of all economies together

hodlr2380

As governance is decentralized , the treasury is controlled by dot holders, its the biggest DAO of this scale . Some spends have been good, others bad. Opengov has only been live for a year . If other foundations were public like this, im sure there would be alot more controversial / worse spending practices revealed. I voted against influencer based proposals personally , I think more holders will become active in voting and such spends will be harder to get through now. Doesn't change anything for me in regards to the tech.

nomorebonks

Internet Computer is entirely ran as a DAO - no code changes can be pushed unless a vote is passed, and it is then implemented by the protocol. Actually autonomous.

Shiratori-3

Yeah, agree with that tbh. The twitter drama is kinda funny given it's basically a reheat of 6-month old drama that's already played out what feels like ~'years ago' now, and with a lot of jumping to low-context conclusions in the mix. When it's put against total treasury scale and over time-series, and in light of Polkadot going through a voyage of decentralised governance discovery, it doesn't seem that out-of-whack to me. Which isn't to say that there hasn't been some super dumb community decision making along the way. Probably why bounties are starting to take the lead so there is some expertise-related decision making, and a negotiation stage incorporated. [Inb4 something something polkadot something because idgaf, and am pretty strongly non crypto tribalist. I'm interested in a bunch of different ecosystems. Personally, tbh, it's been pretty interesting to watch the Polkadot 'worlds biggest DAO' take shape]

gethereddout

Cardano is on the precipice of becoming a full DAO. Tezos has onchain governing mechanisms. Eth Sol Btc not even close.

hodlr2380

There isnt some foundation , or team in control. research opengov , its decentralized governance by token holders, yes some questionable choices have been made for funding, i personally voted against marketing proposals . Being a DAO means everything is public, not some team or foundation controlling the funds privately, if it was public which each foundation or team spent on marketing, i bet its alot more than 5m$ over 6 months

CointestMod

#TRON Pro-Arguments Below is a TRON pro-argument written by a deleted user. > ##**PROs** > > **Disclaimer**: There is little reliable information about Tron that isn't from Tron DAO or Justin Sun interviews. The official [Tron DAO Medium](https://trondao.medium.com/) site doesn't provide links to sources in the blog, making it harder to fact check and analyze. Many of its sources are from Weibo posts that are inaccessible beyond the Great Firewall of China. Tron's documentation and community posts provide way less information than that of other major blockchain projects. Nevertheless, I'm make do with what I can get. > > ####**Performance and Consensus** > > **High throughput and fast finality** > > Blocks are produced every 3s with a max size of 2M bytes. Consensus is completed using DPoS with a fault tolerance of 70% (9/27) Super Respresentatives that act as validators. There are over 350 SR/validator candidates who vote on the 27 SRs each 6 hours. > > - **High Throughtput**: **Tron can reach a max throughput of 2600 TPS with full 2M blocks** and its current balance of actual transactions, which is really high for an EVM-compatible blockchain. > - My calculations used [Tronscan data](https://tronscan.org/#/blockchain/blocks): Basic TRX and token transfers use 250-500 Bandwidth. The current average bandwidth for each transaction is currently 298, which is not that much higher than the lower end for basic transactions. > - Each bandwidth is 0.850 bytes, so you can fit 7800 average transactions in a single 3s block. Tron officially claims that it can reach 2000 TPS, so they're giving a conservative estimate. > - Even filled with 350-550 bandwidth swaps for [SunswapV2Router02](https://tronscan.org/#/contract/TKzxdSv2FZKQrEqkKVgp5DcwEXBEKMg2Ax/transactions), that's 1400 TPS on the lower end. That's way faster swaps than [everything other than Algorand](https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/the-amm-test-a-no-bs-look-at-l1-performance-4c8c2129d581). > - The tradeoff is that consensus is highly centralized (only 27 validators), and that the validators have very high requirements like having 32 CPU cores and 64GB of memory. > - In comparison, Ethereum's Layer 1 in comparison, can only do ~15 TPS average (59 TPS for basic transfers, 7 TPS for Uniswap v3 swaps). > - **Fast Finality in 3s**: All 27 SRs are currently playing friendly with each other, so for all practical purposes, finality is in 3 seconds. (Deterministic finality occurs every 27 blocks, or 81 seconds). > > **Network Energy usage** > > Tron's estimated annual energy usage for 2022 is estimated to be 1.7 kWh, or the **energy usage of [15 average US households](https://decrypt.co/108115/tron-network-energy-use-matches-that-of-15-us-households-ccri-report)**. This puts it slightly lower than the consumption of Avalanche, Algorand, Cardano, and Solana's networks. Its carbon footprint is also 4x lower than the others. And it uses 100000x less energy than Bitcoin. > > ####**Ease of Basic Utility** > > **Transaction fees are covered for FREE by freezing TRX** > > Tron has a unique design for transaction fees instead of using gas. Transactions fees are divided into bandwidth (pays for data bytes) and energy (pays for computations). All transactions require bandwidth while only contracts need energy. > > The benefit is that you get **FREE bandwidth and energy by freezing TRX**, a process similar to staking. You currently receive about 28 energy and 1 bandwidth daily [per frozen TRX](https://tronstation.io/calculator). Basic smart contracts use 350 Bandwidth (requires freezing 330 TRX) and 14.7K energy (requires staking 520 TRX). At current TRX prices, **if you freeze $2500 worth of TRX, you could perform 100 free basic transactions daily**. In addition, each account receives [1.5 kb of bandwidth daily](https://developers.tron.network/docs/resource-model) (originally 5 kb) for free even without freezing TRX, which is good for ~5 transactions. Though I suspect users can abuse this by creating new accounts. > > Any transaction fees in excess of the free energy and bandwidth are burned. This is why TRX is **currently deflationary by ~0.3% annually** (excluding burns for the USDD minting process). > > **Settlement layer for Tether** > > According to Blockchain's [Sep 2022 interview with Justin Sun](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exploring-tron-with-justin-sun-and-blockchain-com/id1536699961), **the original purpose of Tron was to act as a stablecoin settlement network and reserve network for Tether** (USDT). Sure enough, the bulk of DeFi on Tron's network deal with stablecoins. As of Sep 2022, [45% of Tether is now held on Tron](https://defillama.com/stablecoin/tether). And with Ethereum transaction fees being so high, Tron has become an attractive platform for USDT dApps. > > ####**DeFi Usages** > > **Smart Contracts** > > Tron's VM (TVM) is EVM-compatible and uses Solidity for the smart contract language. It is also Turing-complete. Thus, it's simple to rewrite EVM contracts for TVM. > > - **Tron's [DeFi TVL is massive at $5.4B](https://defillama.com/chains), putting at 3rd place after Binance Smart Chain**. > - Though it is a bit suspicious though that 99% of Tron's DeFi TVL are on 3 projects that are literally named after Justin Sun, though that could just be because it's very new. In comparison, Ethereum's DeFi is spread over hundreds of dApps. > - Tron SUN's [Liquidity Pool](https://sun.io/#/home) provides very high interest for USDD-USDT pairs at 5-70% APY. Back in June-July, you could gain triple-digit APY on Tron DeFi with stablecoins while the governance rewards boosts were still active. > > ####**Sustainable Tokenomics for TRX** > > - TRX's tokenomics have a steady, permanent issuance for validators, so it's **sustainable**. All transaction fees are burned. This isn't too different than Ethereum's tokenomics model (other than that Ethereum only burns part of the fee). > - TRX has a total circulating supply of about 92B, which is noticeably lower than their highest supply of 102B before the TRX-to-USDD minting protocol. TRX suddenly became [deflationary on Oct 27, 2021](https://tronscan.org/#/data/stats2/circulation). Supply has fallen about 10% since then due to token burns, making **TRX one of the most deflationary cryptocurrency in the top 30**. > - If we ignore the token burns from USDD minting, each day, ~5M TRX is minted, ~6M is burned (from transaction fees). **This gives net issuance of 1M TRX burned daily, or 0.3% annual deflation.** > > **Good TRX price action during the bear market** > > Tron's native token, TRX, is currently #15 in marketcap as of Sept 2022 with a [marketcap of $6B](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/tron). Its value has held up surprisingly well during the bear market, barely falling 50% while the rest of cryptocurrencies fell closer to 70-90%. **TRX is up 2x vs Bitcoin over the past year** during the bear market, pumping especially hard right around the launch of USDD and introduction of major staking and governance boost projects. > > ####**USDD, a hybrid stablecoin without UST's flaws?** > > **USDD is a hybrid collateralized/algorithmic (seigniorage) stablecoin** launched in May 2022 on Tron's network. It is one of the biggest focuses on the Tron roadmap. It was originally designed as a purely-algorithmic stablecoin based on Terra's now-failed Luna and UST stablecoin. After the collapse of Luna UST, the Tron DAO Reserve (TDR) made several changes to USDD to avoid a similar failure: > > **Differences between UST and USDD** > > 1. The biggest difference is that USDD is 300% collateralized with 11B TRX, 14K BTC, 100M USDT, and 1M USDC [Source](https://usdd.io/). **This makes USDD one of the most collateralized stablecoins.** In comparison, DAI is only 120% collateralized, and USDT and USDC are only 100% collateralized. > 1. TDR controls how much USDD can be minted or redeemed, so it's not purely algorithmic. Thus, TDR has full power to stop it from crashing. > 1. USDD will be released in multiple phases. The current phase only allows for a minting of 2B USDD. This is to limit USDD from growing astronomically quickly like with UST. [[Source](https://trondao.medium.com/improving-usdd-from-lessons-learned-e2600d7f94ad)] > 1. You're probably wondering what's the catch. There is a Peg Stability Module (PSM) that allows minting of USDD by burning TRX. You can current burn TRX for minting USDD, but **you cannot redeem USDD for TRX** [[source](https://twitter.com/TheImmutable/status/1536930692344401921)]. There is no liquidity on any of the [PSM smart contracts](https://docs.usdd.io/psm/the-psm#psm-contracts) to trade USDD for anything else. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_tron) to find submissions for other topics.

soccerguy510

Really confused why MOONs are getting so much hate lately. Moonrise happening, distributions are back, capped circulating supply, burning happening everyday plus DAO.. I’m bullish

KeepBitcoinFree_org

Meanwhile, they can and have changed the history of the mutable ETH blockchain to benefit themselves and reverse the DAO hack.

oic123

Also, what about the Assange DAO that raised $53 million in 2022? No way lawyers cost him more than that in just 2 years.

therealcpain

> security Won’t argue there that eth has the best amongst PoS. > credible neutrality Hard disagree here. The eth foundation has been shown in the past to do what’s best for itself. DAO hack front and center. > decentralization My argument here is: what degree of decentralization is required for a PoS L1? No one knows. As for the VC comment. Cmon. Let’s not pretend that ETH pre-mined the fuck out of their token and the ETH foundation continues to sell into rallies. I don’t claim that any PoS chain is neutral. There is only one and that’s Bitcoin.

sargsauce

Just for a little perspective, ETH was often considered a shitcoin here prior to about 2019, between DAO and cryptokitties.

therealcpain

Honest question: why is eth a long term investment? It gave up its claim as a hard money when switching to proof of stake, as well as what they did after the DAO hack. It has poor TPS and high fees compared to other L1s as well. Now, other development ecosystems such as solana and cosmos are catching up. ETH imo is the most decentralized proof of stake network but does that mean much? Isn’t “decentralized enough” good enough if it’ll never compete with Bitcoin in hard money status? If ETH was released today as a new blockchain it wouldn’t survive.

meeleen223

Undervalued, oversold and DAO and distributions coming in Governance token of the biggest online crypto community, hard capped and only $12m mcap before bullrun and not yet listed on binance, coinbase...

averysmallbeing

What a shocker, another DAO that was neither decentralized, autonomous, or accomplished its goal. 

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; After Julian Assange's release from Belmarsh prison, AssangeDAO, a decentralized autonomous organization, demands transparency regarding the $56 million raised in Ether for Assange's defense. The funds were managed by the Wau Holland Foundation, which disbursed about $37 million without full disclosure of expenses. AssangeDAO was formed in December 2021 to support Assange, who was incarcerated for over 1,900 days due to an alleged U.S. Espionage Act violation. The DAO's efforts highlight the role of cryptocurrency in supporting real-world causes. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Mt. Gox is set to distribute $9B in Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash repayments in July 2024, a significant event for creditors. Bitcoin's price approaches $61K, driven by $150M in liquidations, indicating strong investor confidence. Metaplanet plans to purchase an additional $6M in Bitcoin, reflecting growing institutional interest. Other updates include Ethereum gas prices and Bitcoin miner revenue hitting record lows, the implementation of a fee-free Bitcoin bridge by Cosmos DAO's Osmosis project, the launch of Igloo by Pudgy Penguins and OverpassIP, and the introduction of 'ZK Compression' technology by Light Protocol and Helius Labs to scale Solana applications. Aave DAO supports deploying services on ZKsync to enhance scalability and reduce transaction costs. Upcoming token unlocks include OPT, ALT, and GATE, injecting liquidity into the market. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

thinkingperson

Worse yet, there's no burn option. No DAO, only a closed committee based DAO. Once in a while, they do a buyback ... only to issue more coins later on. Like a few trillions more.

liquid_at

That's fair. But that's why I suggested (in another comment) that a "we double your tip"-system could work. If the users of the sub get to reward a limited amount of posts and those with the highest reputation get more of their tips doubled by the pool than new users, it could actually affect the quality of the posts. But imho, the most important step right now is to get people to understand the new system. When it was all reddit native, no one had to do anything. Right now, most people seem to be confused with arb-bridge, external wallets, DAO-Proposals and all that. I think restarting distribution before people understand that will lead to another situation like when moons started for the first time, where those who participated in the first few rounds got significantly more than everyone who joined later. I wouldn't be near my 15k moons if I hadn't been early...

mvea

Join us live June 23 at 9AM EDT / 1PM UTC on an x.com space with guests from r/Ethtrader and r/Coneheads to discuss the upcoming CCMOON DAO constitution and return of MOON distributions, Community Currency, and DONUTs updates! https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/DaXmVpDDH3

CointestMod

#DAO Con-Arguments Below is a DAO con-argument written by a deleted user. > DAOs appear to be a game changer, however, they are not without constraints. Here are some disadvantages of a DAO > > > **Security** > > The majority of DAOs center on the notion that everything would be handled by the smart contract code. DAOs undoubtedly provided trustless environments, however they were reliant on the reliability and accuracy of the smart contract code. Now, it's crucial to remember that every piece of code has flaws, and DAOs themselves sometimes use code that has them. As a result, the DAO's code may prove to be a major hindrance to future expansion. > > **Slows down the decision making process** > > It can be difficult to persuade everyone to vote on motions in a timely manner. Due to various time zones and investment demands, keeping DAO participants informed and interested might be difficult. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#DAO Pro-Arguments Below is a DAO pro-argument written by a deleted user. > DAOs aim to solve the management issues that modern companies are facing, through implementing an autonomous structure. Every stakeholder in a DAO will have the opportunity to be heard through their votes. > > > **Decentralization** > > Stakeholders have more influence over the direction of the company with DAOs. Although voting power can be weighted in a DAO, the power is considerably less than in more conventional organizations where the leadership decides the company's course. > > **Everyone can be heard** > > A DAO's ability for all members to vote on decisions encourages members to be responsible and deliberate. This eliminates hierarchy barriers and produces a flat, just, and equal organization. > > **Transparency** > > DAOs are run on a decentralized blockchain network where transactions and processes are transparent, archived, and the public can view what's going on. The blockchain doesn't lie. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

DAO {{pros}} & {{cons}} with related info are in the collapsed comments below.

CointestMod

#DAO Con-Arguments Below is a DAO con-argument written by crua9. > * DAO generally don't produce > * DAO take a lot of understanding to set it up right. Like if you set it up right, it can run on it's own. But if you don't, then it can die when one person stops producing. > * DAO in many parts aren't legally recognize and the parts they are legally and tax wise there could be problems > * DAO can cost a bit of money to get going. > * The average person has no idea about what a DAO is or how to get involved. > * Many DAO it is impossible or extremely hard for a newer person to get involved. This making it more like a company. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#DAO Pro-Arguments Below is a DAO pro-argument written by a deleted user. > DAOs aim to solve the management issues that modern companies are facing, through implementing an autonomous structure. Every stakeholder in a DAO will have the opportunity to be heard through their votes. > > > **Decentralization** > > Stakeholders have more influence over the direction of the company with DAOs. Although voting power can be weighted in a DAO, the power is considerably less than in more conventional organizations where the leadership decides the company's course. > > **Everyone can be heard** > > A DAO's ability for all members to vote on decisions encourages members to be responsible and deliberate. This eliminates hierarchy barriers and produces a flat, just, and equal organization. > > **Transparency** > > DAOs are run on a decentralized blockchain network where transactions and processes are transparent, archived, and the public can view what's going on. The blockchain doesn't lie. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

DAO {{pros}} & {{cons}} with related info are in the collapsed comments below.

CointestMod

#DAO Con-Arguments Below is a DAO con-argument written by noxtrifle. > DAOs are decentralized autonomous organisations which are designed to be run by the people who use them. A DAO is a [set of smart contracts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organization) that can be coordinated via a decentralised network of computers, and their members are able to donate or purchase a share in the company, gaining the rights to vote on what the DAO will do with the money it has garnered. This type of model has a few disadvantages: > > * **Hacks/Exploits** > * Like any other blockchain-based technology, DAOs can and will be hacked; an example being the infamous 'The DAO' hack in 2016 [which resulted in the loss of over $60m and a fork of the Ethereum blockchain altogether.](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao) > * If this were to happen with, for example, a similarly large-scale DAO on a small network (as Ethereum was at that time), the repercussions on both the DAO and the network would be unimaginable. > * **Accountability** > * Since the structure of a DAO is so loosely defined, it is impossible to assign responsibilities, tasks, and accountability to any member except the founder of the DAO — raising the question whether it is truly decentralised or not. > * The inverse is true as well. Those who are held responsible for the actions of the DAO are members who vote on how funds will be spent, but without any form of legal entity or responsibility for the actions that a DAO undertakes, it is hard to determine who is accountable and responsible in the event of a calamity. > * This could lead to members being held liable even though they themselves did not consent to any malicious activity committed by the DAO. > * **Efficiency** > * Most of the time, a DAO can take anywhere from days to weeks to make even the most basic of decisions, for example, a change to the website or investing in a new project. > * This would require at least a majority of token owners to vote on the issue, and depending on how decentralized the network is, could take several days or possibly even longer than that for everyone to reach a decision. > * By this time a more efficient, centralised company with more streamlined decision-making processes would have already invested in the project and taken over. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#DAO Pro-Arguments Below is a DAO pro-argument written by a deleted user. > DAOs aim to solve the management issues that modern companies are facing, through implementing an autonomous structure. Every stakeholder in a DAO will have the opportunity to be heard through their votes. > > > **Decentralization** > > Stakeholders have more influence over the direction of the company with DAOs. Although voting power can be weighted in a DAO, the power is considerably less than in more conventional organizations where the leadership decides the company's course. > > **Everyone can be heard** > > A DAO's ability for all members to vote on decisions encourages members to be responsible and deliberate. This eliminates hierarchy barriers and produces a flat, just, and equal organization. > > **Transparency** > > DAOs are run on a decentralized blockchain network where transactions and processes are transparent, archived, and the public can view what's going on. The blockchain doesn't lie. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

DAO {{pros}} & {{cons}} with related info are in the collapsed comments below.

CointestMod

#DAO Con-Arguments Below is a DAO con-argument written by crua9. > * DAO generally don't produce > * DAO take a lot of understanding to set it up right. Like if you set it up right, it can run on it's own. But if you don't, then it can die when one person stops producing. > * DAO in many parts aren't legally recognize and the parts they are legally and tax wise there could be problems > * DAO can cost a bit of money to get going. > * The average person has no idea about what a DAO is or how to get involved. > * Many DAO it is impossible or extremely hard for a newer person to get involved. This making it more like a company. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#DAO Pro-Arguments Below is a DAO pro-argument written by CreepToeCurrentSea. > A decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) is an organization built on rules encoded as a computer program that is frequently transparent, controlled by the organization's members, and uninfluenced by a central government. > > DAOs, in general, should be member-owned communities with no centralized leadership. The financial transaction records and program rules are kept on a blockchain. This type of business organization's precise legal status is unknown. > > # PROS: > > **An Autonomous Structure** > > The majority of traditional organizations and groups have a top-down structure that values decisions made at the top and frequently ignores the ideas of those at the bottom. DAOs, due to it's nature, can help solve the problem by allowing everyone to contribute an idea/option, which can then be voted on by the organization's members. > > **Everyone can participate** > > Tokens or NFTs that grant voting rights are used to coordinate governance. Membership in a DAO is restricted to those who have confirmed ownership of these governance tokens in a cryptocurrency wallet, and membership can be exchanged. Governance is carried out through a series of proposals that members vote on via the blockchain, and having more governance tokens often translates to having more voting power. As long as you have the necessary amount of tokens needed to have voting power then you have the right to vote within the organization. > > **Proposals are Thorough and Specific** > > The creation of a poll within a DAO is expensive more often than not and with that most members who plan to create one often times try to convey their ideas as specific as possible. No one would try to create non-sensical polls that do not contribute to the growth of the organization if they would know the cost behind it. > > **Everything is Transparent and Eternal** > > Everything that occurs within the DAO is permanently recorded on the blockchain. Members of the DAO have access to all decisions made since the organization's inception, with no findings of forgery or misinformation. > > Sources: > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized\_autonomous\_organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organization) > > [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3082055](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3082055) > > [https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao](https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao) > > [https://www.cryptoswede.com/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-a-dao/](https://www.cryptoswede.com/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-a-dao/) > > [https://ssrn.com/abstract=2580664](https://ssrn.com/abstract=2580664) > > [https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao](https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao) ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

DAO {{pros}} & {{cons}} with related info are in the collapsed comments below.

CointestMod

#DAO Con-Arguments Below is a DAO con-argument written by noxtrifle. > DAOs are decentralized autonomous organisations which are designed to be run by the people who use them. A DAO is a [set of smart contracts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organization) that can be coordinated via a decentralised network of computers, and their members are able to donate or purchase a share in the company, gaining the rights to vote on what the DAO will do with the money it has garnered. This type of model has a few disadvantages: > > * **Hacks/Exploits** > * Like any other blockchain-based technology, DAOs can and will be hacked; an example being the infamous 'The DAO' hack in 2016 [which resulted in the loss of over $60m and a fork of the Ethereum blockchain altogether.](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao) > * If this were to happen with, for example, a similarly large-scale DAO on a small network (as Ethereum was at that time), the repercussions on both the DAO and the network would be unimaginable. > * **Accountability** > * Since the structure of a DAO is so loosely defined, it is impossible to assign responsibilities, tasks, and accountability to any member except the founder of the DAO — raising the question whether it is truly decentralised or not. > * The inverse is true as well. Those who are held responsible for the actions of the DAO are members who vote on how funds will be spent, but without any form of legal entity or responsibility for the actions that a DAO undertakes, it is hard to determine who is accountable and responsible in the event of a calamity. > * This could lead to members being held liable even though they themselves did not consent to any malicious activity committed by the DAO. > * **Efficiency** > * Most of the time, a DAO can take anywhere from days to weeks to make even the most basic of decisions, for example, a change to the website or investing in a new project. > * This would require at least a majority of token owners to vote on the issue, and depending on how decentralized the network is, could take several days or possibly even longer than that for everyone to reach a decision. > * By this time a more efficient, centralised company with more streamlined decision-making processes would have already invested in the project and taken over. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#DAO Pro-Arguments Below is a DAO pro-argument written by CreepToeCurrentSea. > A decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) is an organization built on rules encoded as a computer program that is frequently transparent, controlled by the organization's members, and uninfluenced by a central government. > > DAOs, in general, should be member-owned communities with no centralized leadership. The financial transaction records and program rules are kept on a blockchain. This type of business organization's precise legal status is unknown. > > # PROS: > > **An Autonomous Structure** > > The majority of traditional organizations and groups have a top-down structure that values decisions made at the top and frequently ignores the ideas of those at the bottom. DAOs, due to it's nature, can help solve the problem by allowing everyone to contribute an idea/option, which can then be voted on by the organization's members. > > **Everyone can participate** > > Tokens or NFTs that grant voting rights are used to coordinate governance. Membership in a DAO is restricted to those who have confirmed ownership of these governance tokens in a cryptocurrency wallet, and membership can be exchanged. Governance is carried out through a series of proposals that members vote on via the blockchain, and having more governance tokens often translates to having more voting power. As long as you have the necessary amount of tokens needed to have voting power then you have the right to vote within the organization. > > **Proposals are Thorough and Specific** > > The creation of a poll within a DAO is expensive more often than not and with that most members who plan to create one often times try to convey their ideas as specific as possible. No one would try to create non-sensical polls that do not contribute to the growth of the organization if they would know the cost behind it. > > **Everything is Transparent and Eternal** > > Everything that occurs within the DAO is permanently recorded on the blockchain. Members of the DAO have access to all decisions made since the organization's inception, with no findings of forgery or misinformation. > > Sources: > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized\_autonomous\_organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_autonomous_organization) > > [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=3082055](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3082055) > > [https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao](https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao) > > [https://www.cryptoswede.com/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-a-dao/](https://www.cryptoswede.com/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-a-dao/) > > [https://ssrn.com/abstract=2580664](https://ssrn.com/abstract=2580664) > > [https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao](https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21699159-new-automated-investment-fund-has-attracted-stacks-digital-money-dao) ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_dao) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

DAO {{pros}} & {{cons}} with related info are in the collapsed comments below.

GoodSamoSamo

Past outages were solved with network upgrades, like QUIC and localized fee market, to better handle outsized demand > all L1s and L2s combined. 99.94% uptime over past year and most recent outage was a validator client bug. Not to mention, jump crypto is launching Firedancer - a second validator client - in September that will result in massive performance upgrade for Solana and mean outages are a thing of the past since there will always be another client that can product blocks. Eth might not have had outages, but it has its own bad track record. For starters, they broke the ethos of decentralization by hard forking ETH in 2016 after the DAO hack. That should never ever have happened. Not to mention, ETH has had better uptime sure, but it also has had terrible fees and time to finality - meaning that there have plenty of periods of time where ppl are priced out of a transaction - basically rendering the network useless. Far far far more instances of that than Solana going down due to it pushing its limits. Nonetheless, Solana keeps getting stronger with time.

Lightcompass775

She could form different DAO’s lol

GoodSamoSamo

I didn’t say network upgrades brought the network down. I clearly said the outtages that were caused due to outsized demand that no chain could have handled were fixed with network upgrades. Ethereum hasn’t been be technically “down” before like Solana, but it continues to take 12 minutes to reach finality and fees remain exuberantly high such that the chain prices out a ton of ppl and limits what kind of apps can be built on it. Fees have been hundreds of dollars before for an extended period of time… sounds akin to being “down.” Also, ETH got its own unique bullshit… like breaking the ethos of decentralization by hard forking after the DAO hack in 2016. Should never have happened.

baconbitz0

Bisq does this type of system. It’s a DAO where collatoral is put in a escrow where the 3rd party ensures no funny buissness takes place without consequence.

Weak_Place_6576

Very sad that you lost that much money ! I had something similar happening. With DAO since then I prefer the Radix Ecosystem! The Radix Wallet is as smooth and secure as no second one on the crypto space. #XRD is a Gamechanger that will hopefully save more people in the future.

DragonflyWhich931

Not your keys, not your coins. CRV's founder suffered massive liquidations last week (more than 100 Mm maybe?). For me, CRV or any DAO is a major risk for assets...

nomorebonks

Threshold ECDSA and distributed keys aren’t really a custodian when a DAO is in control.

WarriorNysty

When it comes to borrowing against Bitcoin holdings in a decentralized manner, you have several options: 1. Aave: A decentralized lending platform that supports Bitcoin as collateral for loans and as a borrowing asset 2. Compound: An algorithmic money market protocol that allows users to lend and borrow Bitcoin 3. BadgerDAO: A decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) focused on bringing Bitcoin to DeFi and offering yield farming opportunities These platforms maintain a high level of decentralization and security, without intermediaries. Keep in mind that interest rates and features may vary, so it's essential to explore each option thoroughly :)

MinimalGravitas

The majority of fees go to liquidity providers, with a small amount going to the Uniswap treasury if you swap using the default front-end. Their treasury is the largest DAO controlled fund in crypto - https://openorgs.info/ - and the Uni token is for governing it.

0xJonnyDee

What about putting it towards their DAO? I was thinking more about that than jumping into pools and adding liquidity. I know that's far more complex.

0xJonnyDee

I already DCA into Bitcoin and Ethereum. This is just some extra experimenting. I am aware that it's not risk free but curious how it works. Maybe staking it in the DAO?

WarriorNysty

Looking forward to potentially earning Moons again starting Moon Week 50. Best of luck finalizing the DAO Constitution and setting up MultiSig. Here's to a successful relaunch! Thanks devs 🫱🏼‍🫲🏽

Familiar_Most_7585

Vana launched their testnet last week with their native $DAT token. I'm bullish. This was the team that launched SRDAT, the Reddit Data DAO, which pumped hard last month: https:// www.theblock.co/amp/post/286311/paradigm-backed-startup-vana-launches-dao-letting-reddit-users-control-their-personal-data Looks like 22 more DAOs gearing up to launch: https:// docs.vana.org/vana/welcome-to-vana/dlp-leaderboard The network is Paradigm/Polychain backed and has gotten some strong coverage from PackyM, Casey Caruso, and Li Jin: https://www.lisnewsletter.com/p/ai-and-the-why-now-of-data-daos?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web Waiting to see more info on token design and how these Data DAOs will actually work. But looks much more legit than some of the other web3 x Al projects.

Successful-Snow-9210

Why don't you just hide it from yourself and forget about it. Even if your heirs do figure it out then they'll have to figure out how to use it. Dead Man's switches are dangerous. https://cointelegraph.com/news/lawyer-says-dead-mans-switch-not-best-option-for-digital-asset-inheritancehttps:/cercatrova.blog/en/dead-man-switch-inherit-bitcoin-safely There's at least 4 kinds of DMS. Three automatic-electronic and the classic trusted family attorney. All are unsuitable and share 2 common flaws. You must expose your bearer assets to an internet connected device or 3rd party long before you pass. A DMS can get triggered prematurely such as if your hospitalized or simply forget about it. The first type triggers a notification (Google can do this) via email or text to a recipient who presumably will know what to do with the information. Will they have the same email and/or phone# in 5, 10, 15 years? If their device receives the notification will it go to junk/spam or will the recipient treat as such and delete it? The 2nd uses a blockchain time-lock where you have to decide in advance when the DMS should trigger. https://cercatrova.blog/en/dead-mans-switch-inherit-bitcoin-safely/ After its set you cannot transact or otherwise touch those assets without setting up another time-lock afterward. Even if you somehow guess the timing of your demise ,NOT BEFORE, your heirs still have to know how to broadcast the transaction to the blockchain. Will they even be alive ? The 3rd type of electronic DMS, used for non-BTC assets, invokes a smart contract to transfer the asset to a wallet address presumably under the control of your intended heirs. This requires a separate contract for each ERC-20 asset. You'll need to trust the contract developers and all the other employees of the platform. Will the contract still be valid in 10 years, did the blockchain hatd fork for the 35th time obsoletting all the contracts or did the DAO shutdown? Will your heirs still have access to and control of the destination addresses? The old-school way of using a trusted 3rd party like a personal attorney is not good either because you have to trust them enough to give them a secret, hope they have just enough knowledge to keep it safe but not enough to for them or anyone in their practice to abuse your trust. For example, the seedphrase needs to be kept out of Wills and court filings because in most states those are public record. Will it inadvertently be given to an assistant who digitize it "for record keeping?"

daddy_bitcoins

Ethereum is a centralized project that first began with a massive 72 million ETH premine. Ethereum launched with 12 million ETH that was given to the developers and an additional 60 million ETH that they sold for BTC as a part of its "initial coin offering" during the presale. The Ethereum developers purposely misled investors by suggesting that there was merely a 12 million ETH premine and ignoring the 60 mi llion ETH that they sold during the presale, misleading total supply graphs in their prospectus. This is a serious concern and it's possible that the SEC may go after Ethereum developers and the Ethereum Foundation for creating and selling a non-compliant unregistered security (ETH is a security because it passes the [Howey Test](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/howey-test.asp)). The [SEC has been investigating the Ethereum Foundation this year.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-20/ethereum-foundation-gets-sec-scrutiny-in-latest-crypto-crackdown) Here is [another article about ETH and the Ethereum Foundation being investigated this year.](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2024/03/20/ethereum-foundation-under-investigation-by-state-authority/) [Here is a clip of the co-founder of Ethereum, Joseph Lubin, describing how they allowed whales to use multiple fake identities to buy as much ETH as they wanted during the Ethereum presale.](https://i.imgur.com/HpBR7C5.mp4) "A person can buy with any number of different identities. We may limit the unit size of a single sale to make it easier to disguise. So that nobody scares people with an enormous initial purchase. If you are a whale and you plan on investing several million US dollars worth, then you can do so with with multiple identities." [Now click here and listen to a few minutes of Bitcoin developer Jimmy Song talk about Ethereum and Vitalik.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T89gsJ2MsG8&t=47m24s) Jimmy worked directly with Vitalik from the beginning, back when Vitalik was still working on rootstock for Bitcoin. The Ethereum community has endorsed radical changes and pivots, trying to find narrative fit and the Ethereum leadership team is more willing to embrace alternations to the core objective of the protocol in their search for product market fit. They've literally tried world computer, dapps, crowdfunding, NFTs, DeFi, open finance, radical markets, store of value, and more. Ethereum is an aggregator of these narratives, trying each one out over the years in an attempt to seduce people that are uneducated about cryptocurrency. But there is no persistence of a singular narrative when it comes to Ethereum and they are still trying to find product market fit even after all this time. Ethereum is a pointless project that will lead to no efficiency because there is no censorship risk in code execution. What purpose does Ethereum solve if it comes with a horrible trade off of an extremely large attack surface and huge scaling problems? They also advertised immutability and unstoppable contracts that were then immediately reversed with multiple hard forks. Vitalik and many others in the Ethereum space are known scammers. Vitalik is not an idiot and he knew better than to pitch something as ridiculous as quantum mining to investors. Another example is pitching turing completeness as the valuable aspect of ETH, now pivoting away from that and saying it was never about turing completeness but "rich statefulness." \- [Gregory Maxwell: “Vitalik Buterin Ran A Quantum Computer Scam”](http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/08/17/gregory-maxwell-vitalik-buterin-ran-quantum-computer-scam/) \- [Quantum Computing and Bitcoin with Vitalik Buterin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkUpZkeqhF4) \- [Vitalik’s Quantum Scam](https://medium.com/bitcoinerrorlog/vitaliks-quantum-quest-9e6af6570f23) Unlike Ethereum, Bitcoin's issuance rate and maximum supply are clearly defined and they will never change. Ethereum's inflation rate, maximum supply, and final algo are not even defined and people are investing in this. This is insane and it basically amounts to faith in Vitalik and his team. While at the same time newbies are misled into believing that Ethereum is decentralized. Meanwhile, Vitalik has full control over the whole project. Does anybody else here remember the DAO smart contract? Someone found a way to drain ETH and some of Vitalik's buddies lost a ton of ETH, so he rolled back the entire blockchain because Ethereum is centralized, Vitalik is the leader of it, and everyone in the Ethereum community agrees with him, so he can do whatever he wants with Ethereum. He chose to change the name of the real Ethereum blockchain to Ethereum Classic and calls his rolled back blockchain Ethereum. Not long ago ETH miners said they weren't going to follow Vitalik into adding a ponzi style transaction fee burn, so Vitalik, the leader of Ethereum, called their consensus a 51% attack and changed the rules. The fact that Ethereum has switched over to staking rewards also has serious tax implication in many countries where merely holding your ETH being staked will expose users to legal tax obligations. Exchanges for example must send a 1099-MISC to the IRS on behalf of any American user earning $600 in a year. Proof-of-Stake also makes it so the already rich whales control the network and will be collecting compounding interest to dump on the open market. Ethereum has already failed to scale as expected and so they have hard forked again and switched to a proof-of-stake consensus algorithm and started over from scratch (formerly referred to as Ethereum 2.0). This was easily done because Ethereum is centralized and everybody in the Ethereum community goes along with whatever their leader Vitalik says. I have no expectation that this new Ethereum will be any more successful than the previous Ethereum and this new Ethereum is still a centralized project that is controlled and ran by scammers. [Now Vitalik is already laying the groundwork for some more hype and suggesting a re-brand to Ethereum 3.0!](https://i.imgur.com/mxIzBYK.mp4) Ethereum scam part 1 - [Here we focus on the Ethereum token pre-sale which to anyone with any financial experience, is an obvious sale of an unlicensed unregistered security.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUUVlatCvp0) Ethereum scam part 2 - [Here we take a look at the value & business proposition of Decentralized Smart Contracts and why it's one of the dumbest ways to make your business more efficient.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCiHTJRbIf4) Ethereum scam part 3 - [The Ethereum scam part 3.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgFXqVpGDNg) https://medium.com/startup-grind/i-was-wrong-about-ethereum-804c9a906d36 \- [Ethereum and Ethereum Classic are scams and so are the developers that build on them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxtVLjCxPDU) Institutional investors have no interest in ETH and this report titled ["An Institutional Investor's Take on Cryptoassets"](https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/john-pfeffer/An+Investor's+Take+on+Cryptoassets+v6.pdf) details why. This report even explains that when Ethereum's fees get too high and things don't go as planned, users will switch (and are switching) to use a different centralized cryptocurrency. You can already see this happening right now with all of the "ETH killers." That report also explains why institutional investors are interested in BTC. "The Ethereum blockchain growing 85 terabytes per year is totally fine. If you have even one person that just keeps buying like a hundred dollar hard drive like I think once every month then they can store it." ―Vitalik Buterin Source: https://i.imgur.com/1FZdLC5.mp4 Over 99% of altcoins were created to enrich their founders and over 99% of them have no future. None of them are as secure, as decentralized, or launched as fairly as Bitcoin. Satoshi created Bitcoin to allow online payments to be sent directly from one person to another without trust or permission from anyone else. Bitcoin had no premine, no developer fund, no developer tax, and no leader. Satoshi never sold, made no profit, got no fame for his real identity, removed himself from the project, and he gave a two month heads up before he launched Bitcoin. Bitcoin is decentralized and trustless with the full nodes in control of the protocol rules. And Bitcoin doesn't have a person, CEO, or company in charge of it or leading it. Satoshi took careful steps to make sure that the world would look back and observe that Bitcoin was launched fairly: * No premine (Satoshi didn’t grant himself any coins) * Gave a 2 month heads up before launching the network (no sudden release and no mining before release) * Coins had no value for 1.5 years so they circulated freely (it's not even possible for an altcoin to replicate this) * Satoshi never cashed out (unlike every other cryptocurrency founder)

CointestMod

#Aave Con-Arguments Below is a Aave con-argument written by strudelpower. > **Aave Con Arguments** > > > Aave ($AAVE), is a decentralised liquidity market protocol. To put it simple, the users of Aave protocol can participate as depositors or as borrowers while former provide liquidity and earn passive income, while latter have 2 options for borrowing: overcollaterised / perpetual and undercollaterised / one block liquidity. > All funds on Aave are stored in a smart contract that is secure, audited and completely open source! > AAVE token is, similar to many other DeFi protocols, used for governance and can be staked to provide further insurance for depositors. > > > Now let's head on to CON Arguments for Aave protocol. > > **Hacking** > Recent attacks on bridges, Decentralized Exchanges and more, make AAVE a very good looking target for hackers. The amount of chainss AAVE works on multiplies possible entry points for a hacker. In addition, AAVE is an opensource project which makes it easier for hackers to see the code and find the attack vectors. > > **Key Metrics in red** > Protocol revenue in last 30 days is down approx. 41% with only $0.3 million. Total revenue in the last month is a bit above 3 million, while the competitor TrueFi has almost double the revenue while MakerDAO is beating Aave TVL ($6b) at more than $9 billion locked. > > > **Multi chain juggler** > Aave is not limited to Ethereum or Polygon or a different chain. Aave currently supports all following chains: Ethereum, Avalanche, Optimism, Polygon, Arbitrum, Fantom and Harmony. Jill of all trades, master of none? > > > **Well-Decentralized** > Aave Protocol claims to be fully decentralized, with a community of more than 120,000 people who hold the voting rights. In addition to that, Aave Grants DAO, which is a community-led grants program, offers community to empower developers that they want to support. > > **Flash loan attacks** > Aave is a pioneer of Flash Loans but this brings another issue with it: Flash Loan Attacks. Flash loans allow user of the platform to borrow crypto without any capital. When borrowed, protocol gives you that amount of crypto but you are enforced by blockchain to pay it back. This opens a lot of ways for hackers to try and trick the protocol. > One of such attacks was in May 2021 on Pancake Swap which crashed it for over 95% of it's value. > > > Aave is a wonderful platform but in this day and time when hacks on such DEX are growing bigger and wilder..it makes one think if it's safe enough. > > > > *Sources for the post listed below* > https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/what-are-flash-loan-attacks > https://messari.io/protocol/aave-v3 > https://messari.io/protocol/aave-v2 > https://coincodex.com/article/10388/what-is-aave-heres-why-aave-is-one-of-the-leading-defi-protocols/ > https://defillama.com/protocol/aave > https://decrypt.co/resources/what-is-aave-inside-the-defi-lending-protocol > https://docs.aave.com/aavenomics/safety-module ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Aave) to find submissions for other topics.

deshe

> "Security threshold" has a rather specific definition for PoS DLTs. It usually means the % of stake the attacker needs in order to finalize valid blocks against the will of honest validators (e.g. for court-ruled censorship). This could also allow them to reorg the network for the blockchains that allow for it. Security in DLT usually means safety+liveness. A 51% attacker can I definitely stall the network without consequence, hence the network has no liveness whereby no security. I agree the safety threshold is higher in PoS, but this isn't necessarily a good thing, exactly because it makes liveness attacks easier. > But this doesn't mean that larger staking pools have a tendency to get larger over time. It does. PoS has a rich-get-richet dynamic which is a huge problem. > Most of the large PoW and PoS networks have been actively trying to break up their largest staking pools or decentralize them with a DAO. The main things stopping them are economies of scale. My opinions is that this is a fool's errand. Best thing you can do is make pool foulplay quickly noticable by high BPS. This is very well motivated game theoretically, since foulplay necessarily means reduced profit for pool users  About the economy of scale, high BPS is also the answer. While ASICs are indeed an economy of scale, you can argue that the block delay is a linear factor of this scale (essentially because having X times higher BPS means a miner needs X times smaller fraction of the global hashrate to see the same amount of blocks), so I consider high BPS a solution to this as well  > it's easier to be a small solo staker (smaller ongoing cost, and many protocols pay out small amounts just for validating) than it is to be a small solo miner (requires winning the lottery) Again, I do not believe this is true due to high BPS. Bitcoin can accommodate 144 solo miners/pools with daily revenue, 10BPS Kaspa can accommodate 864000 such miners. Some evidence that this dynamic translates to real economy is that even though there are very large Kaspa ASICs available, the smallest one is still the best selling unit. The high BPS creates demand for small machines by decentralizing mining, and that's when the mainnet is running on 10BPS and the total Capex is bearing half a billion dollars. A single KS0 costs less than 500$ and is currently enough to solo mine a weekly block on average.

HSuke

**Part 3** > No permissionless consensus has security threshold over 50%. "Security threshold" has a rather specific definition for PoS DLTs. It usually means the % of stake the attacker needs in order to finalize valid blocks against the will of honest validators (e.g. for court-ruled censorship). This could also allow them to reorg the network for the blockchains that allow for it. Most PoS blockchains have some weakness to 50% attacks, but most PoS ones do not allow undesirable blocks to included until the attacker owns 67% or more of the stake. For example, in Ethereum, attackers with over 50% of the stake can inactivity-leak the honest nodes, causing an expensive stalemate. > It is a very concrete argument. In PoS, if anyone obtains control over a prohibitively large sum (which they can do secretly, in theory), they get to maintain their superiority forever for free. In PoW, even if someone has 90% of the global hashrate, they have to maintain operational costs and procure hardware to maintain their superiority. I admit it's much cheaper to maintain staking superiority in PoS than mining in PoW. But this doesn't mean that larger staking pools have a tendency to get larger over time. Usually, the community makes a strong effort to try to decentralize. Most of the large PoW and PoS networks have been actively trying to break up their largest staking pools or decentralize them with a DAO. The main things stopping them are economies of scale. I strongly believe that decentralization depends on how biased the network is for economies of scale for both PoS and PoW. Each network will be different. In general, it's easier to be a small solo staker (smaller ongoing cost, and many protocols pay out small amounts just for validating) than it is to be a small solo miner (requires winning the lottery). It's hard for small-scale miners to stay competitive. There are some exceptions like Solana which are super expensive for validators and have high economic advantages for being centralized.

pituitary_monster

Yes, of course. For example Bisq's DAO. Also bartering systems in primitive societies still in existence. Also, i wouldnt qualify current taxing goverments as functioning or working in practice.

RefrigeratorLow1259

I think it's linked to the infamous Sifu, remember Wonderland and the Maker DAO fiasco....now running Volt Club!!

RefrigeratorLow1259

Essentially it's the Chang Hard fork, the founders keys are burned and governance goes to the holders of ADA to vote on future direction of Cardano...kind of makes it totally decentralised and a DAO....

OriginalPancake15

DAO is always such a joke when I see new projects claim it being one of the reasons you should invest. YoU hOlD tHE pOWeR~~@@ Meanwhile the team have 80% of tokens and will sway every single vote lol

thinkingperson

If sushi was a real DAO, it would have to pass a resolution via DAO to convert its governance from DAO to council structure. Guess what? There is such a proposal! [https://forum.sushi.com/discussion/17147-proposal-for-decentralized-governance-structure-intro-of-sushi-councils-rfc](https://forum.sushi.com/discussion/17147-proposal-for-decentralized-governance-structure-intro-of-sushi-councils-rfc) Strange how this article is making it like Sushiswap has already dissolved DAO when it is only at the proposal stage.