DAO

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Pr... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xu3vcu\/daily_general_discussion_october_3_2022_gmt0/).

Ateam043

The DAO is called Pussy?

DrPechanko

CKB is solid crypto. It is lightning fast, has a working DAO, and a dedicated team. It also hasn't been listed on many exchanges yet.

DamnMyAPGoinCrazy

The history of successful cryptos is filled with this kind of stuff. I was around in 2016 when ETH *literally forked the whole chain* over the DAO attack

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Pr... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xta3ma/daily_general_discussion_october_2_2022_gmt0/).

1PaleBlueDot

Eth and BTC remain top 10 coins, but another new or overlooked crypto will be leading the bull run with this coin driving adoption through a value adding network. Million people DAO's start to buy and bid on everything from sports teams to property to all sorts of collectibles. Instead of a great reset we start owning everything. Here come's the decentralized power of the blockchain to create shared ownership among strangers using common incentives to make million people decentralized groups. BCH starts to show signs it could flip BTC. lower fees = better for user and network transactions. Crypto will get easier for the end user. Over the next few years the UI really develops where there's an increasing number of apps where the user doesn't even realize it's powered by decentralized blockchain, they just use it because it works better then a centralized option. During the next bullrun owning your own blockchain node becomes the cool thing to do. The barrier of entry comes down over the next few years as the tech evolves and the number of blockchain literate users increases. Haha, trying to predict the future within a time frame can be a guess work game, but I gave my best shot at guessing a few out there predictions that could surprise us.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin and Ethereum managed to escape a broader slide this week as the market briefly reclaimed a trillion dollar market capitalization. XRP, Cardano, Chainlink and Cosmos posted the biggest losses among the twenty leading currencies. Ukraine DAO raised millions for Ukraine’s defense and relief work since the start of the Russian invasion. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin and Ethereum managed to escape a broader slide this week as the market briefly reclaimed a trillion dollar market capitalization. XRP, Cardano, Chainlink and Cosmos posted the biggest losses among the twenty leading currencies. Ukraine DAO raised millions for Ukraine’s defense and relief work since the start of the Russian invasion. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Pr... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xta3ma/daily_general_discussion_october_2_2022_gmt0/).

SigSalvadore

That could be a cool NFT: Pieces of my Soul. Smart contract tied to a wallet which receives income from staking; each part of the soul gets x-amount gains from the wallet. Or make it a DAO, any serious life decisions have to be voted on by NFT soul holders. Should I get married Should I have kids Should I cheat on my wife Should I go to the store to buy milk

siaqon

Bull or bear? I'll continue DCAing and purchasing my favorite tokens. I'll be adding more BTC, Matic, and MAXX. I liked how MAXX is backed by validator node ownership and has a community DAO.

sdmikecfc

Community won't help a lot of projects if the team goes broke. If it's a coin like doge then yes, it'll keep going with a community but if it's a project that is actively building, trying to get clients and bring real world adoption then they can drop off at any time. They either write a long post about how they tried and the market failed them or they will call it a DAO and the team will move on.

Dwaas_Bjaas

This reminds me of a DAO “hack” (cant remember which one) a while back where one user gained voting majority and was able to transfer all funds to his wallet. The developers just simply responded with: “Sorry, thats just how DAOs work”

DATY4944

I think once DAO tooling exists that make it cheap and easy to operate a DAO, they will become more popular

Spartan3123

Except their DAO shutdown. If your working on these kind of things maybe it's a good idea to be annyomous as well

ambermage

"Shitcoin Compounders" Coins that you buy once and stake to earn multiple other types of coins. They can easily gain traction with the "passive income" crowd and capitalize on FOMO. Especially since they are all drowning right now. A couple examples are currently being pushed as DAO coins because the skirt current regulations but they also fit well into the proposed regulatory frameworks of the future such as the EU terms that are facing final acceptance. For people wanting direct examples, ATOM staking is a single purchase that gets the user multiple shitcoins which can result in massive "pump and dump" potential for the airdrops. ALGO has projects that operate similarly. Lots of shitcoins means lots of FOMO and linking during the next bull run.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Cosmos 2.0 | Apple 30% NFT tax | Safe launches DAO | NFTs are hot again *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Prysm... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsqkga/monthly_optimists_discussion_october_2022/).

totallyfvckedup

there's a large number of young people eager to learn about blockchain and crypto, one of the most efficient ways to encourage and motivate them is EduDAO's approach by joining hands with the top universities, and with funding from Bit DAO, to give students the opportunity to build the next big thing in web3, drive-up adoption, and discover new talent

sloe-berry-brain

What you mean the re-launch, after they fucked up the DAO?

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use Pr... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xsglev/daily_general_discussion_october_1_2022_gmt0/).

lj26ft

They have a certain amount of time to respond otherwise a default judgement will be entered against the DAO. This is insane, who's going to take responsibility for the whole dao?

oneplusoneequals3

I got into btc at 100 CAD and Eth at 5 Cad. Unfortunately didn't have a tonne to invest. Eth DAO scammed me and I lost some.

Curvycryptoqueen

Harmony ONE - Trust in us, we know how to do DAO's!

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xpwwdf/daily_general_discussion_september_28_2022_gmt0/).

CointestAdmin

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xpwwdf/daily_general_discussion_september_28_2022_gmt0/).

CointestAdmin

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xpwwdf/daily_general_discussion_september_28_2022_gmt0/).

bijon1234

Ethereum Classic (ETC) is the original Ethereum blockchain that got its name in 2016 as a result of the hack of The DAO, a smart contract operating on the Ethereum blockchain. Ethereum (ETH) is a hard fork of that original blockchain, which was done in order to reverse the hack.

iamjide91

DAOs are my numero uno source of sustainable income when it comes to web3. A few of 'em I'm part of are PeopleDAO, ProXifyDAO, DIA DAO, all good options.

Potential-Coat-7233

They probably don’t own the rights. They should do what those Dune DAO morons did and try to buy the rights in a really naive way.

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xp0c4c/daily_general_discussion_september_27_2022_gmt0/).

Rollthewindowzup

We literally don't need politicians for government to work. DAO will run government in the future.

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xp0c4c/daily_general_discussion_september_27_2022_gmt0/).

Olafhadtopoo

Every DAO that I joined so far ended up being a dumpster fire. 😓

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xp0c4c/daily_general_discussion_september_27_2022_gmt0/).

Shiratori-3

Fed Chair DAO countdown is now go...

AESTHTK

The answer as far as I can tell, is that they need to decentralise Cardano in the Voltaire era - but they don’t have the capacity to run DAOs on Cardano, so will just port in Ethereum DAO infrastructure onto mamba and allow coin voting. That’s the only plausible theory I have.

reshail_raza

DAO can never be trustless. It needs closure for verification

ForcedLoginIsFacism

Could you please analyse EUR token? Feels like DAO but I suspect big pre-mining

Objective-Cabinet-62

I didn’t come up with anything. I simply stated stuff that already exists. There is a DAO on a smart contract that already has an encampment in Texas that you can go sign up for and live/work. Several other contracts in alpha right now to tie local contracts together with do a well governed commerce system can be practical.

Objective-Cabinet-62

There are systems of social contracting that will launch on decentralized block chains via sets of smart contracts. The next government will be a DAO in control of citizens. A forking off the US constitution.

Kike328

That’s the good part. Each token is responsible for their own judge. If I create a reversible token following this standard, then I choose who’s the judge. For example, let’s say that MakerDAO adopts the ERC20-R for DAI. Then, the own DAO can be the judge. That been said, reversible ETH is out the table, we’re talking about smart contracts and tokens… this is nothing new

ShortFroth

They are not talking about making ether reversible. They are talking about creating a ERC token standard that supports reversal via a DAO scheme. IF someone finds it useful they will build something with it and people could choose to use it or not

CointestAdmin

#Ethereum Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by MrMoustacheMan which won 2nd place in the Ethereum Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > #Ethereum Con Argument > > - *Disclosure: I currently hold a position in ETH, ~53% of my current portfolio value* > - Tweaking my argument from [the last round](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pz4vav/rcc_cointest_top_10_ethereum_conarguments_october/hq6gy23/) > - ETH has been the subject of a lot of criticism over the years and the same points still seem to get recycled ([premine/founders](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/owypvc/my_personal_investigation_into_ethereum_uncovers/), [DAO rollback](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/the-dao-hack-makerdao), [scalability/centralization](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qw2e32/eth_is_bad_and_i_am_tired_of_pretending_its_not/hl0bqo9/), [inflation/supply](https://www.theheldreport.com/p/bitcoin-vs-ethereum)). There are a ton of rebuttals online for the most common Con arguments - [see here](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/najp2c/addressing_common_criticisms_about_ethereum/) and [here](https://medium.com/@adamscochran/the-10k-audit-42c100dd32bb) for a start. > > - That being said, there are definitely some legitimate concerns about ETH to consider: > > ##Gotta pay the troll toll > > - As a protocol, Ethereum is an '[empire](https://www.finder.com.au\/brave-new-worlds-cosmos-blockchain-and-social-evolution)', a self-contained ecosystem with [composability](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composability). > > - But the downside of a 'one chain to rule them all' approach is that it locks users into using the system and paying gas fees in ETH. > > - [EVM](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/glossary/ethereum-virtual-machine-evm) is certainly an industry standard, but [interoperability](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/why-is-interoperability-important-for-blockchain) may be crypto's future. As Do Kwon of LUNA said recently: "[Maybe it's a bad idea to stick all the applications into one global computer. Maybe it just makes sense to have a multi-chain future.](https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1439969124550119431)" Vitalik agrees, [but differentiates between a *multi-chain* vs. a *cross-chain* future](https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/rwojtk/ama_we_are_the_efs_research_team_pt_7_07_january/hrngyk8/). > > - We all know [gas fees](https://www.gasprice.io/) on ETH are a pain in the ass. > - A lot of complaints about gas are misguided or uninformed, not understanding the [blockchain trilemma](https://www.gemini.com/cryptopedia/blockchain-trilemma-decentralization-scalability-definition), mistakenly believing EIP1559 was supposed to lower gas fees (vs. [making them more predictable](https://pintail.xyz/posts/gas-market-analysis/)), or suggesting that ['gas fees are high, no one will use Ethereum'](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qikr7r/a_10k_eth_is_not_unrealistic_it_is_inevitable/hik9pet/). > > - High gas fees are in fact an indication of usage, of [people competing to use the chain](https://cryptofees.info/) - but this makes ETH a victim of its own success. > > - Paying [$20 for a token transfer or a Uniswap trade](https://etherscan.io/gastracker) is just not feasible for users with less capital - [they get priced out of using the chain](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/qdi9i8/ive_tried_to_use_ethereum_1015_times_over_the/). > > - A really interesting article dives deeper into how "[people are entirely 'locked out' of their funds since it’d cost more in transaction fees to move the funds than the funds are actually worth.](https://medium.com/geekculture/value-fragmentation-8c8336f97cfd)" At the time of writing the total 'lost value' of ERC20s was $600M, which doesn't include ETH itself or NFTs. > > - Which brings us to competition and scalability: > > ##I drink your milkshake > > - Having prioritized decentralization and security at the expense of scalability, Ethereum is now [focused on rollups to meet demand](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html). > > - However, some users may not care about decentralization - they want to participate in DeFi, NFTs, etc. without paying an arm and a leg and will use BSC, SOL or [sidechains that don't inherit ETH's security](https://finematics.com/polygon-commit-chain-explained/). > - [Funds have migrated](https://ethhole.link/) over the past year from ETH [via bridges to L2s and other L1s](https://medium.com/etherscan-blog/ethereum-bridges-four-months-on-10ee36f889ae). > > - [TVL on L2s has boomed](https://l2beat.com/) as users flock to platforms with [cheaper transactions](https://l2fees.info/). Polygon for instance recently [flipped Ethereum in daily active addresses](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/10/04/polygon-flips-ethereum-on-active-user-addresses/). > > - Ryan Selkis of Messari explained some concerns around these trends, suggesting that ETH's position will eroded by competitors and/or cannibalized by L2s: > > >["Decentralization (specifically political decentralization) and architectural soundness have become secondary properties at best and willfully ignored at worst in the mercenary dominant market of 2021. Not every new chain has tossed decentralization aside, but many have. Even if Ethereum manages to hold off its largest non-EVM rivals, it will leak value to the rollup chains it leans on for scalability. ETH sits at ~60% market cap dominance among Layer 1s. That will either fall below 50% in 2022, or its Layer 2 rollup tokens will eat into its growth. Maybe both.] (https://messari.io/pdf/messari-report-crypto-theses-for-2022.pdf)" > > ##Points of failure? > > - While I agree with [this article debunking the "ETH is centralized" mantra](https://medium.com/swlh/ethereum-isnt-decentralized-and-other-myths-ef2d132ee1fe), I think Ethereum still has some progress to make on the [**sociopolitical** and **architectural** aspects of decentralization](https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274#.355j5eg0v): > > - **Sociopolitics**: > > - Vitalik is a great steward of the project and has been [trying to remove himself as a single point of failure](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3x1b_S6Qp2Q&t=656s). Anyone remember the [Vitalik death hoax?](https://fortune.com/2017/06/26/vitalik-death/) > > - But as a 'high priest', Vitalik's [vision](https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html), [proposals](https://news.coincu.com/38718-vitalik-buterin-makes-proposal-eip-4488-to-lower-gas-fees-for-ethereum-layer-2-in-the-short-term/) and opinions have preeminent influence and there's no doubt [he remains the 'face' of Ethereum](https://time.com/6158182/vitalik-buterin-ethereum-profile/). The community looks to him for key communications like [roadmap updates](https://twitter.com/vitalikbuterin/status/1466411377107558402). > > * While [Ethereum development functions as an open source collaboration](https://media.consensys.net/ethereum-2-0s-latest-strides-forward-13f63652e57d?gi=30830fb85bbd), I think there are a lot of benefits to having a pseudonymous, 'absent' founder like with Bitcoin and Monero. > > - There are also some concerns in my mind about the role of Joe Lubin and ConsenSys in [privatizing what should arguably be public goods](https://saitoofficial.medium.com/the-infura-problem-fe68866484ec). > > - **Architecture**: > > * ConsenSys has been a huge player in [driving enterprise adoption](https://consensys.net/blog/news/consensys-acquires-jpm-quorum/) - but they also own [key Ethereum infrastructure like Infura and MetaMask](https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/11/02/consensys-shareholders-readying-legal-action-over-share-valuation/). They're now being [audited for letting banks like JPMorgan Chase get a piece of the pie](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blockchain-company-consensys-faces-multi-billion-dollar-audit-as-shareholders-claim-board-breaches-fiduciary-duties---attributed-to-arthur-falls-301493433.html). > > - [Crypto Twitter](https://twitter.com/infura_io/status/1499446959827931175) seemed surprised to learn that MetaMask and Infura aren't actually permissionless [when users in some countries lost access](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/136336/a-look-at-metamask-infura-opensea-and-the-countries-they-do-not-serve). > > - Bigger incidents like [Infura going down](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/ethereums-infura-iating-outage-revives-decentralization-concerns) or the [Geth bug causing a chain split](https://decrypt.co/79597/ethereum-blockchain-splits-software-bug-network) highlight the Ethereum network's reliance on this infrastructure. > > > - Meanwhile client and hosting diversity remains an issue [(1)](https://mirror.xyz/jmcook.eth/S7ONEka_0RgtKTZ3-dakPmAHQNPvuj15nh0YGKPFriA) [(2)](https://clientdiversity.org/) as of writing: > > - On the mainnet (PoW): [>80% of nodes use Geth](https://www.ethernodes.org/), while [~69% of nodes run on hosting services](https://www.ethernodes.org/network-types)([e.g. AWS](https://decrypt.co/44321/70-of-ethereum-nodes-are-hosted-on-centralized-services)). > > - On the beacon chain (PoS): ~2/3 of validators use... ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2luf/top_10_ethereum_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Ethereum) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xo380x/daily_general_discussion_september_26_2022_gmt0/).

LWKD

Lol yeah. Like adding liquidity everywhere. Be eligible for a lot of airdrops. DAO. What am I missing?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The 5th annual Black Blockchain Summit was held at Howard University from September 22-24, 2018. The summit is a conference that brings people together to learn and connect with other Black people about the blockchain technology and cryptocurrency spaces. HU DAO Labs, a student organization, also began its first hackathon and pitch competition at the summit. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

daddywookie

TBH, this post has inspired me to go write up a User Story for my DAO to work on around news aggregation and creating a space for people to discuss the news in a more curated way. If r/cc don’t want to serve that demographic then that’s an opportunity for others.

Educational_Rule_424

The class started off going over the different protocols, PoW/PoS then over the crytography that the blockchain is built on. We had to build different block chain applications a basic DAO a smart contract and stuff like that. We also had quite a few interesting guest lectures from different blockchain companies. The lecturer Dan Boneh is a legend in crytography so it definitely isn’t a class about just bitcoin.