DAO

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10m6lv1/daily_general_discussion_january_27_2023_gmt0/).

princesse77rq

I also make transfers from one network to another. I like octusbridge. Fast, very cheap transactions, and also controlled by the DAO, I think this is one of the factors of reliability.

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10m6lv1/daily_general_discussion_january_27_2023_gmt0/).

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Mango Markets' exploiter Avraham Eisenberg has been hit with a lawsuit by Mango Labs for $47 million in damages. Eisenberg is accused of manipulating Mango Markets’ native token MNGO through “fraud, deception,” and converting nearly $114 million from the protocol’s depositors into his own accounts. He was also accused of embezzling $14 million from Fortress DAO. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

ACShreds

"A small but active group of politicians is proposing guidelines for everything from decentralized autonomous organizations (DAO) to non-fungible tokens (NFT)." While it is nice to see political movement regarding crypto, these are just proposals. Politicians have been putting out proposals about crypto for years now. When something gets passed, I will celebrate.

FlyingDutchmantoMoon

Thats what contracts are for and that contract would be for all to see. He would not be owning the DAO

booey

I think pocket DAO is leading innovation in the DAO governance space with proof of participation. I can't see any other examples of DAO's adopting this method of sybil protection. I wonder if other DAO's are watching whether this might work for them?

JESUS420_XXX_69

SPARTACUS DAO. Holy shit I lost so much money.

DoubleAchtDeath

So much time and hard work has been put in by the WOLFYMarkets dev to make this platform not only look great terms terms of the UI, but also perform great as far as predicting and staking are concerned. And if you want to see some diamond hands, just check out the WOLFYMarkets community who stuck with and supported this project through development. Well, now the platform is HERE and their patience has been reward. There's only more to come from here on out - especially with regards to new markets, chains, and features implemented after DAO voting comes online. So hyped for the future of this gem 🐺🔥

FlyingDutchmantoMoon

Euhm just about every media outlet is owned by someone. Question is how they run it. Charles could let a DAO run it

FlyingDutchmantoMoon

So what if he buys it and let a DAO run it?

Fuglypump

I can think of worst case scenarios, like what if there was an "evil DAO" that had control of a nuclear arsenal or some other weapons of mass destruction and they did a governance vote to bomb a random location, in order to stop it people would have to buy tokens to vote no with, but whenever voting no the tokens are burnt and voting yes only locks them for a time. Governance can be evil too if the community is evil enough.

CreepToeCurrentSea

So being part of a DAO already makes you an accessory to a crime?

pizza-chit

I got nothing against DAO's but they tend to be what people dump during a market downturn

Metazoa89

>“Buying DAO tokens? That’s no longer risk-free: Courts might consider you a partner in the business and judge you liable for millions in hacked funds.”

Primary_Technical

DAO - A decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) is an emerging form of legal structure that has no central governing body and whose members share a common goal to act in the best interest of the entity.

Ofulinac

The real danger is owning a shitty coin that lets you "vote" in a DAO.

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10ldwad/daily_general_discussion_january_26_2023_gmt0/).

egg0909

JOIN NOW! Rocket Mission Has Started! The Inugami Foundation has officially registered all rights to the Inugami Council DAO, LLC. We are freedom. We are many. We are Inugami. Telegram: @weareinugami #ShillTeam6DefiArmy 4

BrotherAmazing

This is not true at all. The SEC brought an enforcement action against LBRY in March 2021 which they recently won, claiming that LBRY had offered and sold LBC as an unregistered security in violation of Sections 5(a) and 5(c) of the Securities Act. The SEC's suit seeks injunctive relief, disgorgement, and civil penalties. Bitcoin is not a shitcoin security, and even Gary Gensler and the SEC have gone on record time and time again saying they do not consider Bitcoin to be a security, but all those shitcoins that had ICOs are obviously securities and could be subject to enforcement actions in the future. It also doesn’t necessarily mean they will be “illegal”, they just need to register as securities now or clean up their shitcoin act and launch like Bitcoin did without “tokenomics” (i.e., fraud) that gives 10% of the token supply to the founders, 10% to the dev team, 20% to the Foundation, 10% to the DAO and 50% sold in ICOs and funding rounds where they swindle the naive shitcoiners.

lifeetc

I think if you have an AI and combine it with a DAO you and need some sort of governance system. For a decentralized governance system you need to hold a bag to vote for example. Look up polkadots governance system and you can see how an autonomous AI could be crowd controlled.

steveblobby

I'm kinda in agreement here. Web3 and AI biased coins and tokens may very well be the next big thing to pop. Oracle's shouldn't be ignored either, same with some DAO's... Nothing wrong with holding whatever tempts you, in small amounts, setting movement alerts to notify you what's happening with them to save you having to watch everything all the time. Just an opinion.

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10kkgfg/daily_general_discussion_january_25_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10kkgfg/daily_general_discussion_january_25_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10jrpkm/daily_general_discussion_january_24_2023_gmt0/).

philcsik

They bailed out at the DAO event. Not decentral.

Bl473r

Crypto4Good ? Or is that not your DAO name ?

daddywookie

If you are going to put yourself out there then you need to get a handle on being judged, online communication and how to build trust remotely. One option could be to look into or even contact Angel DAO who have been quite successful and have a good reputation.

Odysseus_Lannister

If you’re trying to get legitimate interest in a project you’ve been working on, it’s common sense to be fairly formal. Again, you don’t mention how your DAO plans to “prevent widespread loss or protect the little guy”. This stuck out to me as scammy even if you didn’t intend it to be. I get you’re upset but coming in here frustrated and responding back to criticism with more frustration is a recipe for trolling and disappointment.

IcArUs362

I agree when it comes to billionaires, but I know for a fact you're wrong in terms of just generic society (including crypto), because my DAO is trying to be. In fact, we are trying to change your exact perspective. Our DAO doesn't seek for personal wealth... we are TRULY only interested in rewarding our supporters and seek only to protect/secure the little guy in the space.

rootpl

My favourite ones are DAO tokens. Project creators often hoard most of them to maintain control and then sell remaining 49% to idiots thinking they can have a say in the project. Free money printing.

Kumomax1911

Take a look at how many mining pools run Bitcoin. You've got 3-4 entities that control the whole network. As Ethereum opens withdraws and staking becomes easier and more decentralized, with services like Rocketpool, we will see a increase of decentralization. This also solves the problem of "But bitcoin miners can move". Also, you need to remember that running Ethereum can be as easy as running it from your laptop. Bitcoin literally requires massive energy intensive multi billion dollar mining farms. One of these setups is very nimble in any sort of crackdown the other not so much. You need the learn the bigger picture before concerning yourself over metrics that are only temporary, and don't tell the whole story. Most Ethereum was originally staked with just a few entities, because that was the only way retail holders could easily do it. The largest of those entities is Lido. That is a DAO and can not be considered one centralized entity. Especially as they are continuing to decentralize out their operations. There is no real threat to the network, and no real concern is needed. People just don't understand how this stuff works, and listen to tweets or soundbites from prominent figures that act out in tribal ways. Ethereum has the most talented devs in the space. They know what they are doing. Ethereum is fine. Unstaking and decentralized stake services has this covered.

nusk0

To become a validator, you need 32 Eth and some organisation offer stacking services like Lido who is liquid stacking provider. They are a DAO (decentralized organisation) that gives you token (stEth) when you stake with them. They let people stake through them. While they do have 30% of the total Eth staked, they are not a single entity, further more, they introduced DVT to improve decentralization : *One of Lido’s proposed steps toward decentralization involves adopting “Distributed Validator Technology” (DVT) to group validators into independent committees that propose and attest to blocks together. According to Lido, this will “greatly reduce the risk of an individual validator underperforming or misbehaving.”* While it's not perfect, the ethereum developers are looking at solutions and I trust them to find a suitable longterm solution. In the meanwhile, just know that most of these 4 entities are composed of multiple validators

Baby_girl734

It’s commendable that researches are now being conducted to find out small cap gem. We can’t hide the fact that they are the best to invest in as they give more profit when you get the right ones. This is the strategy I have chosen to apply this year because good profit must be made irrespective of the market condition and this is one way that can happen. I’m already getting my bags filled with gems and I think the one I fancy the most is $INJ due to its features, I did a critical study on it and I’m impressed with their involvement of the entire community by adopting the DAO system and how they allow interoperability of blockchains. It’s one embedded with the perfect utilities that will trigger its growth

Tatakae69

Amazing how they picked up the pieces after that DAO attack. Looking at the chart it did cause some serious damage to ETH *The hallmarks of a great Cryptocurrency.*

MinimalGravitas

1) ENS is run by a DAO, not a company. 2) They gave their tokens, and therefore governance power, to everyone who had used the service, there were no VC private pre-sales or in fact any sales at all in the token distribution... and you describe that as them being sell outs? 3) You don't 'buy' names, you pay a fee to register them for a certain amount of time. If there was no fee then someone would have just claimed them all years ago. The ether raised goes to a treasury controlled by the DAO, so anyone can make suggestions as to what to use it for. In general it doesn't get used for anything. What to reconsider your opinion?

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10iydf2/daily_general_discussion_january_23_2023_gmt0/).

juunhoad

>high APYs are built that way to attract new liquidity to the protocol. Still unsustainable. And looking at WYND, yet again a very generic DAO token. Not gonna make it.

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10i5m0a/daily_general_discussion_january_22_2023_gmt0/).

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Justin Sun’s Tron DAO wallet sent $180 million to the Binance exchange a few hours ago. There are currently no unique methods available for tracking the destination of this money. The price of Tron has remained relatively unchanged over the course of the last several days. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

Spacesider

>Ethereum foundation decides what's "ethereum". Period! There is absolutely no argument about this at all. I am curious how you would react when you find out about Blockstream and the (roughly) 6 people on the Bitcoin Core maintainer team. If this really is unacceptable, then perhaps cryptocurrencies aren't for you. >Ethereum Foundation creates an altered version of Ethereum on July 20 2016 to reverse the DAO theft (to recover founders' coins). As trademark rights holders, the Ethereum Foundation applies the Ethereum (ETH) brand to the new forked chain >This is why there's never any contention over hard forks. This is why they are able to pull off a hard fork every six months. There are also only a handful of economically significant nodes like infura, alchemy. >Ethereum upgrades require no consent from users. It's irrelevant what anyone thinks. A hard fork breaks consensus and enforces the change on users. It's only possible to do frequently if there's a central authority. You either upgrade to their chain or leave. You have no other option. You can no longer run older versions if you don't like the change ethereum foundation makes. You also cannot fork the chain yourself no matter how many users join you. It will not be ethereum as ethereum foundation holds the trademarks. Did you really just link to the page of an Ethereum fork then type up a lengthy paragraph saying that no one can fork Ethereum?

nomorebonks

Ignoring the tech argument now and just resorting to ghost chain and baggie talk again like everyone else when someone compares ICP tech. >Pretty much what i said earlier, nobody is going to use these except ICP holders You're not getting that these are built on-chain, will be run as DAO's controlled by an on-chain protocol just like the entire Internet Computer is, and are a true web3 architecture for a new internet where you can actually control your data. A lot of talk about that and ICP actually does it. *Your keys, your data*. That's what separates it from regular web2 bullshit where all your data is stolen almost daily. Where you're subject to platform risk because they don't like your politics, your content in general, shut off a service you need without notice, or where they take 30% or some shit of your profit. >Sweet, just need some adoption. Agreed - companies looking to save millions will be looking and finding it. Absolutely perfect for indie devs who always run out of money because of costs of hardware and cloud. >We have an AWS alternative too. Akash. Not built on COSMOS and more importantly not built on-chain either. It's a great product that has some coins on COSMOS. Not very exciting and nothing close to ICP at all. It still has all the web2 vulnerabilities that ICP solves with being on chain and having tamperproof smart contracts for the web - there's no firewall needed. No one is hacking your smart contract the way they do on web2. >Lot of places to build web3 games on. No there aren't - only ICP is able to run these games from the chain. Those are the same gimmick we're seeing all over - a game hosted on AWS or run on your PC with some coins moving around somewhere on the backend. Because that's all the chain offers. It's all it can offer. Except for ICP. >I'll take my defi and nft crap and 53 sovereign blockchains All 53 of those do the *same* exact thing - nfts and high APY defi questionable scams. That's all they can do on-chain. ICP's tech allows for endless possibilities of development on-chain. ICP tech is clearly better. Probably wouldn't be having this discussion if FTX hadn't released ICP-PERP trading to run up the price and give the appearance of just another P&D. Still recovering from that but I think there's a chance to turn it around. The tech is there. Good luck to you too.

KAX1107

Ok so you don't really want to argue in good faith. Let's make it more clear then. Ethereum foundation decides what's "ethereum". Period! There is absolutely no argument about this at all. Ethereum has a formal specification defined by ethereum foundation. All clients are funded by ethereum foundation and simply follow their formal specification. 99.9% of clients [here](https://ethernodes.org/?synced=1) (Geth, nethermind, besu, erigon) are [directly maintained by ethereum foundation](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/ethereum-nodes-and-clients-a-complete-guide/) [Ethereum Foundation creates an altered version of Ethereum on July 20 2016 to reverse the DAO theft (to recover founders' coins). As trademark rights holders, the Ethereum Foundation applies the Ethereum (ETH) brand to the new forked chain](https://ethereumclassic.org/knowledge/history) This is why there's never any contention over hard forks. This is why they are able to pull off a hard fork every six months. There are also only a handful of economically significant nodes like infura, alchemy. Ethereum upgrades require no consent from users. It's irrelevant what anyone thinks. A hard fork breaks consensus and enforces the change on users. It's only possible to do frequently if there's a central authority. You either upgrade to their chain or leave. You have no other option. You can no longer run older versions if you don't like the change ethereum foundation makes. You also cannot fork the chain yourself no matter how many users join you. **It will not be ethereum** as ethereum foundation holds the [trademarks](https://trademarks.justia.com/866/34/ethereum-86634529.html).

zk_sync_chad

The founder of Maker DAO was killed by the CIA

OneThatNoseOne

I think we are at a very dangerous place. The Howey test used to determine if a token is a security or commodity is looking increasingly outdated. But for the moment, Bitcoin is the only clear commodity as by the Howey test a security has to have all four of: 1. An investment of money 2. In a common enterprise 3. With the expectation of profit 4. To be derived from the efforts of others Number 2 has Bitcoin clearly in commodity status as their is no central enterprise/organization with Bitcoin. Almost all other tokens are at least questionable, even DAO's which authorities have claimed are common enterprises/centralized organizations. Which is where the fear of claiming all tokens as securities comes from and why the SEC having claimed FTT as a security opens the door for coming against all exchange tokens and then all project tokens.

Morning_Star_Ritual

Learn to realize gains. I think this sub leans on the buy and hodl side of the community. I don’t marry myself to a project or position. If I get lucky I understand if I don’t take profits, my luck can turn… I’m fairly certain many of you here now will be able to have an amazing time whenever the next mania phase arrives. So—> if you find yourself starting to take a screenshot of your gains, then maybe it’s wise to take profit rather then a screenshot. My goal isn’t to join a tribe or cult (other then the Cone Cult) or talk shit about other projects and ride or die. I seek gains in projects I feel are undervalued. When those gains happen I rotate them into stables or more btc/ETH. You are going to see a ton of posts mocking other projects as VC coins or shitcoins. These are projects I then focus on…. Let’s start the downvote train. Aptos is mocked. So…time to drill down. VCs will get another unlock in 21 days. (Always check token.unlocks dot app) So…whatever this current pop is—bull or bear trap—it made sense to make a bet and grab some Aptos at a cheap price. There was no way to know it would rip. And despite another 21 days until the next unlock I just took profits and will see if this pump continues. If it does, then I take more profit close to the unlock. I don’t have to believe in a project in order to believe it will pop and I can accumulate more btc and ETH. If I was a purists I’d never touch ETH and only buy ETH Classic. If code is law then why would I support ETH? It’s just a hard fork so ogs didn’t lose their position after the DAO Hack. The one thing I do see is people treat projects they love like their favorite sports team. I try to fight that feeling. Except for my Cone Fam. I ain’t selling no matter what….

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; A decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) is raising funds to build a time machine based on Einstein's theory of relativity. The DAO aims to raise $3 million to fund the creation of the first time machine in the history of humanity. The project will be co-owned and run by the DAO's core team, with 20% of the treasury remunerated to the team. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; NYX Professional Makeup is launching a DAO called GORJS and 1,000 NFTs called the FKWME Pass. The DAO aims to set a precedent for “what beauty will be in the metaverse, and lead the cultural conversation as it relates to the values of diversity, inclusivity, and accessibility,” according to the DAO’s litepaper. NYX Global Brand President Yann Joffredo said the company has a history of supporting “rising makeup creators” *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

_dont_be_a_sucker

[WYND DAO Dex is up and running now](https://dex.wynddao.com/)

tsumy

> Junoswap is migrating liquidity to WYND DEX. As part of this transition, most RAW pools have had swaps and deposits frozen. These pools will be automatically migrated upon the launch of WYND DEX. Users with liquidity in these pools may still withdraw funds if they do not want to be migrated. All other pools are trading as normal and most will also be automatically migrated. Please see RAW DAO prop 18 for the full details and list of pools eligible for automatic migration To read even the Dex is way overvalued

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10hdaqg/daily_general_discussion_january_21_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10hdaqg/daily_general_discussion_january_21_2023_gmt0/).

k3surfacer

Depends on the coin. But DAO for PoS coins can solve it. Easy. For Bitcoin things can get ugly.

zoomercoomer9000

In the past, governance has been used to return stolen funds at the code level. This happened in 2016 when The DAO was exploited to the tune of $60 million. Ethereum was hard forked to make investors whole. The split resulted in two chains: Ethereum and Ethereum classic.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; ApeCoin DAO has approved a proposal to integrate with Catapult, a Web3 solution that facilitates effortless onboarding, rich Web3 profiles, better collaboration, and proactive governance in DAOs. Catapult will attempt to solve the problem of “lack of context” within the ApeCoin community. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

nomorebonks

Sorry but that's a long way of saying nothing. >If you build your business on it You cannot build anything on ETH besides DeFi and NFTs. That's all there is. You can't build social media or websites like Etsy on it because it can't serve web content, you can't tokenize assets on it because there's no way to store large amounts of data on it - there's nothing to build. It's smart contract size is limited to 24kb. It's impossible to do anything on it. I'm all in on crypto and blockchain tech and ETH is offering nothing that can be used in actual use case. You can't build on Polygon either. Or COSMOS. Or any of them. They just move coins around and that's all they can do. What you need is a chain described [here](https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1261298996871651328) by Vitalik. On-chain governance, on-chain oracles, on-chain identity. Everything on-chain and serving website smart contracts. That's being done now and it's Internet Computer. There's no other chain where you are able to build actual blockchain tech with real world use cases 100% on the chain. And none if it is running on Big Tech's cloud. One they directly integrate with ETH then we can start seeing assets locked in ETH smart contracts running on the IC, or websites gated by ETH NFTs, or payment accepted in ETH, or on-chain DAO's run with ETH. BTC is already integrated. But right now you just cannot build on ETH in any way that is going to be useful to normal users that want to get into blockchain and it'll remain filled with scams.

jawni

That is far from the problem, the problem is that speculation is so pervasive that a single word tweet can move markets. Elon Musk ain't the CEO of DOGE but yet the same thing happens with his tweets, so clearly this isn't just a CEO problem. Even community lead projects and DAO's have some form of hierarchy, where you'll have someone who is a CEO in every regard except for the title. I think it's an understatement to say it's smart for projects to have caretaker foundations(which require something like a CEO or executive director), it's not smart, it's necessary. Good luck launching something like an L1 without it.

sQtWLgK

and don't forget that the DAO fork was a bailout to his own and his friend's funds lost there a similar, bigger fuckup some time later in the Parity multisig got no bailout because it was from an oppositive group (Parity, which later left to make Polkadot)

seb7mad

Honest question. Is there any DAO out there that's actually decentralized?

Maswasnos

This is a gross misrepresentation of the community's decision to implement a state change after the DAO hack. Also, like I said, that's a mindset very much stuck in 2016.

KAX1107

There's no confusion at all Ethereum foundation centrally premined 72 million eth before a single block was mined of which 12 million was supposedly given to founders for free which is clearly a lot of coins already and it's the same as any equity issuance where ownership and management control issuance and distribution but then if you were to look at the actual sale curve, it follows the [mathematical precision of a power function](https://prestonbyrne.com/2018/04/23/on-ethereum-security/) which is only possible if it was almost entirely paid out to a [single entity](https://twitter.com/Leerzeit/status/1591190118492098560) or small group of people working in concert. There's a central issuer company with an executive board of directors which owns [trademarks](https://trademarks.justia.com/866/34/ethereum-86634529.html), licensed AWS central servers, creates roadmaps, locks up funds, has branding, marketing teams and business plans. Ethereum foundation decides what's ethereum. Period! Unlike bitcoin, ethereum has a formal specification defined by ethereum foundation. All clients are funded by ethereum foundation and simply follow their formal specification. 99.9% of clients [here](https://ethernodes.org/?synced=1) (Geth, nethermind, besu, erigon) are [directly maintained by ethereum foundation](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/ethereum-nodes-and-clients-a-complete-guide/) [Ethereum Foundation creates an altered version of Ethereum on July 20 2016 to reverse the DAO theft (to recover founders' coins). As trademark rights holders, the Ethereum Foundation applies the Ethereum (ETH) brand to the new forked chain](https://ethereumclassic.org/knowledge/history) This is why there's never any contention over hard forks. This is why they are able to pull off a hard fork every six months. There are also only a handful of economically significant nodes like infura, alchemy and only [∼ 3k nodes](https://ethernodes.org/network-types?synced=1) overall with majority on central hosting servers. Ethereum upgrades require no consent from users. It's irrelevant what anyone thinks. A hard fork breaks consensus and enforces the change on users. It's only possible to do frequently if there's a central authority. You either upgrade to their chain or leave. You have no other option. You can no longer run older versions if you don't like the change ethereum foundation makes. You also cannot fork the chain yourself no matter how many users join you. It will not be ethereum as ethereum foundation holds the trademarks.

unfknblvablem8

So Brad Garlicbread has some chief executive officer decisions at his disposal that could quash any DAO or consensus votes driven by community holders?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs) are increasingly prominent due to the self-governing and democratized model of governance that they promote. DAOs can be classified based on the type of functionality they provide, which would determine the DAO-building tools that best suit your project. Below are five popular DAOs and an example of a DAO building tool suitable for each. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; A decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) can be loosely defined as a group of people with shared interests who use the blockchain for governance. Superdao offers a step-by-step process to start, manage, and grow a DAO. DAO tools are needed to address the bottlenecks *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

MinimalGravitas

My profile picture is an NFT, it wasn't an expensive purchase, but rather it was only available to long term members of a particular group of well Ethereum users. The community is one that includes dApp developers, podcast hosts, hardware wallet designers, and a very high density of exploratory DeFi users, validator operators, DAO delegates etc (https://dune.com/mtitus6/EVMavericks-Resume). When I see other people on Reddit, Discord, Twitter or wherever with one of these I can quickly see that they are likely to be fairly well informed about the topics we discuss daily. If the topic is Ethereum related then they are likely to be worth listening to. Are they a symbol of 'cringe' as you put it? I don't think so, but then I'm obviously biased!

Sizododayladyyu

At the moment, I believe no one can accurately predict the crypto market. Ive faith in cryptos and will continue to build my portfolio by adding MAXX to it. They are backed by ownership of validator nodes, and have a community DAO.

k3surfacer

I always thought a crypto UBI is possible and can be funded and managed by crypto community like a good DAO. The design of it is difficult and I was hoping some devs actually do it. It needs the top dev in crypto.

CointestMod

#Polygon Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Polygon Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Background - Polygon is many-sided**. There's the main Polygon PoS network that acts as a sidechain to Ethereum, and then there are so many side projects, many of which deal with Layer 2: > > - MATIC: The main Polygon token, which is present on multiple networks > - Polygon PoS: The main Ethereum side-chain network that most are familiar with. It saves checkpoint state on the Ethereum network every [256 blocks (5 minutes)](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network). > - Polygon [Hermez](https://docs.hermez.io/#start-here-for-hermez-10-documentation): ZK-rollup Ethereum Layer 2 > - Polygon [Zero](https://blog.polygon.technology/introducing-plonky2/): A fast ZK-stark/ZK-snark hybrid solution built on the Plonky2 protocol. It proofs are theoretically [100x faster than current ZK proof calculations](https://blog.polygon.technology/zkverse-polygons-zero-knowledge-strategy-explained/). > - Polygon [Miden](https://blog.polygon.technology/polygon-announces-polygon-miden-a-stark-based-ethereum-compatible-rollup/): Stark-based ZK-rollup Ethereum layer 2 > - Polygon [Nightfall](https://blog.polygon.technology/zk-proofs-protocol-polygon-nightfall-launches-on-testnet-to-provide-low-cost-private-ethereum-transaction/): Enterprise version of Polygon that uses "ZK-Optimistic Rollups" (ZK proof for privacy and optimistic-rollup for scalability) > - Polygon Avail: Standalone network or side-chain solution > - Polygon Plasma Bridge: A legacy bridge that shouldn't be used anymore. > > This post will mainly focus on the Polygon PoS network. > > ------------------ > > **CONs** > > **Still requires the Ethereum network** > > The Polygon PoS network is a side chain for Ethereum. It has its own network security, but staking is still done on the Ethereum network and requires paying expensive Ethereum smart contract gas fees. > > Similarly, going from Layer 1 Ethereum to Polygon is mainly done through the Polygon PoS bridge, which also costs expensive Ethereum gas fees. (This will gradually phase out as more CEXs provide direct onramp to the Polygon PoS network.) > > **Has plenty of competitors** > > There are just too many competitors, which dilutes adoption and liquidity for Polygon's ecosystem. While Polygon PoS isn't a direct competitor to most Layer 2 rollups and monolithic "Ethereum killers" because it is designed from ground up to be Ethereum sidechain, it does experience indirect competition. And the other Polygon Layer 2 rollup projects are direct competitors. As of Jan 2021, Polygon Hermez is only in [17th place in TLV](https://l2beat.com/). > > **Less resistant to DDoS attacks** > > Like all networks with low transaction fees, it at risk to DDoS attacks since the barrier to making transactions is low > > In early Jan 2022, [Sunflowers Farm \(SFF\) unintentionally DDoS-attacked the Polygon PoS network](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/01/06/polygon-under-accidental-attack-from-swarm-of-sunflower-farmers/) and completely congested the network because it was more profitable to play the game and spam transactions than pay network fees. Transaction fees shot up 20x. Eventually, a hacker exploited the SFF game and reduced its price to zero, and users rejoiced because it cleared the congestion. > > **Centralized governance of the PoS chain** > > Governance is currently centralized. > > The Polygon team single-handedly [increased the transaction fee from 1 to 30 Gwei in Oct 2021](https://thedefiant.io/polygon-transaction-fee-hike/) to combat spammers. They didn't communicate this with the community or ask for feedback ahead of time. > > The Polygon team also [secretly hard-forked the network](https://cryptobriefing.com/a-hacker-stole-1-6m-after-exploiting-a-polygon-bug/) by pushing out a patch 1 day after a hacker stole $1.6M from the network from the Polygon PoS genesis contract in Dec 2021. The team didn't publicize the reason for the emergency patch until over 3 weeks later. > > They have only very recently starting looking to decentralize governance through a [Polygon Ecosystem DAO](https://blog.polygon.technology/state-of-governance-decentralization/), but that could be a long time away. > > Also, the top 4 staking validators out of a total of 100 validators [own 49% of the supply](https://wallet.polygon.technology/staking/) of MATIC, but the staking validators are only used for validation and [block production](https://forum.matic.network/t/matic-system-overview-bor/126), not governance. > > **Split attention on multiple projects** > > For better or worse, Polygon is working on multiple Layer 2 solutions (Polygon PoS, Hermez, Zero, Miden, Nightfall, Avail) and constantly researching different protocols. This is a rather Google-like decision to have multiple competiting products where it becomes the Jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-none. Some of these protocols are really exciting, but the crypto community doesn't know about them because there are too many to focus on. > > **Tokenomics of MATIC Tokens** > > The MATIC token has limited utility. It's used for staking (validation and block production). Once the pool of staking rewards runs out of funds, all staking rewards will need to come from transaction fees, which are tiny. Currently only 75% of the coins are in circulation, and the Polygon Team has an ongoing [token release schedule](https://research.binance.com/en/projects/matic-network) for dumping tokens on the open market. > > ------------------ > > Disclaimer: I currently do not own any MATIC. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/qk4yk4/coin_inquiries_round_polygon_conarguments_november/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10erynt/daily_general_discussion_january_18_2023_gmt0/).

reed5point0

I feel that kinda as I hold some Snoos too, but also share that hype personally with COSMOS stuff. I actually first got into NFTs over there with SCRT Punks, and then caught the bug obviously. By all means the above post of mine is 30% shill, but I am really excited for and hold each and every one of the above...PLUS some like the Kevin Smith release on SCRT, and a few DAO based NFTs as well like Cataclops and LEGENDAO

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Cryptegrity is set to launch their native utility token $ESCROW on PancakeSwap on January 16th. The token will be used to reward community members of the Cryptegrity DAO who provide arbitration services and resolve potential disputes between users of the platform. The platform is a fully decentralized and community governed escrow services platform that facilitates secure transfers of funds, data and services. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

Awkward_Potential_

I've been using Arbitrum for GMX and Treasure DAO, honestly really nice ecosystem building there. It sometimes feels like it must have felt to be in the early days of ETH.