BTC

Lavayo

BTC has nothing to do with a coin, except it was called a "coin" because of the cultural association of the word with money/currency. It's much more than a digital version of any fiat currency coin, we get CBDCs for that.

xtrarradio

BTC was born super ideological, with a heavy anti-establishment vibe. That BTC died a long time ago, no matter how much some people want to believe otherwise. What's left now is just a purely speculative digital coin, tightly tied to stock market moves and global economic trends, and totally absorbed into the system. Bitcoin, the real bitcoin, the one used to buy a pizza back in 2010, is long gone.

Efficient_Range1156

I was the same but not just for .1 BTC lol thank God.

PintOfBacon

I've been in and out for years and years. From 2006 ish, although I did own some breifly years before that too. I sold all my holdings around 110k usd and honestly, I'm not even bothered about entering bitcoin again anymore. The rules and regulations have changed, the tax man wants his cut. The original aim of bitcoin seems to have been achieved through its journey from 1c to $100k. It did it. It ballooned in response to fiat currency printing. It's never going to be used as money, the transaction times and fees are too slow/expensive, at least for fully on chain transactions. Nowadays there are hundreds or thousands of blockchains that are technically better for that purpose, but that's also diluted the case for any single one of them. How to pick one when there's so many. Btc has the superior security due to its sheer size, nodes, proof-of-work etc. After heavily investing in equities in the past 5 years I've learnt you can somewhat easily place objective values on a single company using its earnings, revenues, growth, moat, price, etc. Etc. But how in the heck are you supposed to objectively value a coin/token/blockchain? It doesn't really DO anything, it non producing. Sure, you can compare the BTC supply to the money supply, but.. so what? For the first in a long time, I'm over bitcoin. I've made good money over the years and I'm just not that interested in it anymore. Plus, what's more likely to outperform? Btc or "the market"? If anything bitcoin seems correlated to the market too nowadays, so it's like a russel 2000 vs qqq vs all world type argument. If they move together why would I bother with the riskiest one and destroy my portfolio? find it a difficult argument for btc nowadays. It's been great but I'm out now.

pommesUNDwurst

Depends if you are willing to gamble. I am gambling on a further drop (haven't bought any BTC yet). If it doesn't come until the start of November I am willing to accept the opportunitycost and will buy in either way (even if the price will be higher than now). Most reasonable would be to split your money. DCA weekly up until Decemder with one part. But keep another part for an eventual drop. The stupidest approach would be to wait for lower prices indefinetly.

IBAN-IBON64

Diversification. BTC SP500 ETF ARISTOCRATES ...

HeroicHeron

Would you spend USD at steak and shake? Of course not. Why spend them when BTC is at $64k when you could spend them on BTC instead and then trade them back for $100k USD in a year. USD as a currency is a joke.

blalah

Someone who cares enough doesn't need to worry about all of this. You can hold BTC via a piece of paper... from a printer tha, connected via usb, printed your private key and address. Use coinbase or whatever you want to receive BTC there. Back in the day, we'd just accrue via mining. Digital signing is where you have some open kimono going on, but you can still preplan this and prepare it offline. I've done 90% of my crypto-related interactions this way. It's time-consuming, mundane, and annoying. But ultimately, my stacks of hand written index cards have kept me safer than hardware wallets.

NoBrosCrypto

I can’t bring myself to spend BTC either. I don’t want to be the Bitcoin pizza guy.

False_Abroad_9809

I went to [coinkite.com](http://coinkite.com) and pulled up Gemini Pro: I asked "Rate the likelihood of this company that is a small company and established themselves at block 141,000 having 1000+ bitcoin stored by the founders from 1 to 100" the response was: # Likelihood Rating: 90 / 100 Based on the historical context and the specifics of the company, it is highly probable that the founders hold a very large amount of Bitcoin. # The Company in Question The company you are referencing is **Coinkite**. Founded by Rodolfo Novak (NVK) and Peter Gray, they proudly advertise being established in 2011 around **Bitcoin block 141,000** (August 2011). They are the creators of legendary Bitcoin hardware like the COLDCARD wallet, OPENDIME, and the BLOCKCLOCK.    Here is a breakdown of why it is highly likely that the founders have 1,000+ Bitcoin stored. # Why the Likelihood is Extremely High (90/100) * **Cost of Acquisition in 2011:** When block 141,000 was mined in August 2011, the price of a single Bitcoin was hovering between **$6 and $11**, down from a brief peak of $31 earlier that summer. At that time, acquiring 1,000 Bitcoin would have only cost around $6,000 to $11,000. Mining it was also still highly accessible. For tech founders diving into the space, amassing thousands of coins early on was relatively easy and cheap. * **Deep Ideological Conviction:** Coinkite is famous for being aggressively "Bitcoin-only" and deeply committed to cypherpunk ideals. The founders are hardcore proponents of self-custody, privacy, and holding Bitcoin long-term as a store of value. They fit the exact psychological and ideological profile of early adopters who would hold onto their early coins rather than cashing them all out for fiat. * **Sustained Commercial Success:** Coinkite is one of the most successful and longest-standing companies in the Bitcoin hardware space. Because their core business has been highly successful and profitable over the last 15 years, the founders likely haven't been forced to completely liquidate their early crypto wealth just to pay personal bills. * **Corporate Treasury:** Beyond personal holdings, Coinkite natively accepts Bitcoin for all its hardware products and has done so for over a decade. It is standard practice for Bitcoin-native companies to hold a large portion of those revenues in cold storage rather than immediately converting them to dollars. # Why It's Not a Perfect 100/100 While holding 1,000+ BTC (which is worth roughly $64 million today) is highly probable, it is not an absolute certainty for a few practical reasons: * **Hardware is Capital Intensive:** Building physical products requires massive upfront capital for research, development, materials, and manufacturing. During the brutal "crypto winters" (like the crashes of 2014–2015 and 2018), early companies were often forced to sell massive amounts of their Bitcoin reserves simply to keep their supply chains moving and the lights on. * **Diversification:** Even the most hardened Bitcoiners occasionally diversify. They may have chosen to convert large sums of their early Bitcoin into real estate, traditional investments, or operational fiat to de-risk their lives. Despite these factors, given their exceptionally early entry at block 141,000 and their continued dominance in the space, betting that they hold 1,000+ Bitcoin is a very safe assumption.

lobhater

Just because they accepted bitcoins doesn't mean they saved them. They likely used a service that converted BTC to fiat the moment the payment was made. They then used that money to pay rent and buy materials, health insurance, payroll, advertising, etc

Dilan57169

If you had $1m in BTC, $2500 a year is the annual cost of this ETF. Up to the individual to decide if that’s worth it.

Ok_Option_3

The simple answer is that they had bills to pay (wages , suppliers, advertising, etc) that means they would have had to sell most of their bitcoin to cover bills. You're also applying generous wishful thinking as to how many customers paid in BTC, and how long ago they received their income. There's simply no way a small company like this sleepwalks into > 5 million if assets.

BeautifulSeason8387

BTC papers is against native btc

gits-id-01

you’ve certainly worked with some dipshits if you’re lending out money with collateral you haven’t verified. I totally own 100 BTC, hook me up with a loan. What a bizarre thing to lie about on the internet, and when it’s so obvious you’re wrong.

gits-id-01

No bank is giving out a 7-figure+ with BTC collateral and, ya know, making the lessee prove they own the coin. At which point, it’s pretty obvious the coin is compromised and worthless as collateral. The entire purpose of collateral is to not be left holding the bag. 

NoBrosCrypto

The difference would be a cold wallet would cost say $200. Even if they accepted payment in BTC it would still be $200 in BTC. That $200 wallet likely stores > $1000 of BTC and likely > $10Ks. I doubt they have the funds to compensate. But who knows, maybe they have some BTC if they got in incredibly early and built a large bag.

Infinite-Ad1720

BTC only has value as long as it cannot be centralized.

Some-btc-name

Probably had their BTC on a coldcard. .

Nate_tis

Putting BTC into the hands of the people it was meant to stay out of... Although I won't pretend the ColdCard situation has got me looking into ETFs

TripTryad

That youtuber Trevon James was hilarious. Dude got SO many people caught up in that nonsense. I feel for the folks he fooled. Posting all those YT videos from expensive hotel rooms with his girl and his child. Flexing his BTC etc etc. Crazy times.

randomnegativity

Something something BTC

Acolyte_of_Swole

The fact they did the hack in the first place means they probably have a plan to clean the money. Even if they don't, there is no company backing BTC as a currency or protecting your investment when you store BTC in a wallet. Also can't you just buy from criminals with the tainted money and then sell what you bought from the criminals to legitimate customers? Basically money washing 101.

futon_potato

Here's the best part about this latest hack. Even if you *did* do everything right and were able to move before they recreated your seedphrase, if you *also* didn't have the knowhow to send your BTC with a massive fee it would've been sniped by the hackers before it got processed. How the fuck does anyone still expect this to disrupt banking & payment?

dj_destroyer

Imagine if Bob bought a Coldcard and it collided with Alice. They both think they have BTC. Now imagine one person *adds* to the wallet, the other thinks they're getting free Bitcoin. Maybe one party adds consistently and the other just sits there counting their lucky stars. Just for both of them to see it disappear in an instant.

Subject_Reward_5439

Well, I lost my word and a half BTC a couple years ago and it was terrifyingly devastating psychologically I never got over it

JeremyLinForever

The problem is that we can’t predict the future, otherwise people will generate some random dust amount for a burger in a few years if that’s the case. What we do know is throughout Bitcoin’s entire existence, the burger has only ever gotten cheaper, no matter the time frame. But, don’t let these posts have you up in arms about cherry picking time frames. Maybe don’t buy BTC and spend it on a burger today and count for yourself how much BTC you’ll have 10 years down the line as opposed to a burger you eat today. The choice is all yours buddy.

Jumpy-Assignment344

This is probably fake. No one with that much BTC would be so stupid. She says she entered her 24 words into the new wallet. I call BS. https://x.com/lunymoon13/status/2084971945070666028?s=46

Azula_In_The_AMX

He's saying if you spent BTC on food and made money on BTC today your multiplier would still be going. Saylor just did a video of how he used AI to make $15 billion more on BTC without having to give his up. But probably nothing.

Sligli

"Fuck, this new GTA 8 game looks good, maybe I can preorder it after selling some BTC"

coffeelover9457

Spot Bitcoin ETFs were approved in the US in January 2024. As of this post, BTC market cap is \~1.2T, and some estimate losses due to the CC hack at \~100M. I think these numbers demonstrate that your belief that "ETFs are the only rational option at this point" is already shared by fellow investors. I'm guessing that people who have an investment-only interest in Bitcoin used products like CC because the ETFs weren't yet available. This incident will now light a fire under such hodlers to sell and buy ETFs (I think exchange inflows since the incident hint at this). I can imagine someone in 2023, post-FTX collapse, believing (from an investor point of view) "self custody is the only rational option at this point, prove me wrong", then the ETFs arrived.

Milcah_Ganderton

That's wild, those 19 BTC would be worth like $700k+ today. Guess he got the best pizza tutorial ROI possible lol.

drwebb

I guess the point is you don't want to hold dollars since they devalue, so you want to use it to buy assets that do not (real estate, capital goods, commodities, digital assets \[i.e. BTC\]).

Ok-While-1160

Passing clarity allows massive amounts of institutional inflow into crypto, aside from ETP and pension flows. The analysis below doesn’t even account for the potential that tokenization will bring for real world asset and securities markets generally. For starters, putting asset custody, segregation, risk metrics, capital requirements, etc on exchange platforms eliminates a large percentage of the perceived risk around the industry which was garnered from the FTX/Celsius gambit years ago. Moreover, most banks currently will not use digital assets for defined banking activities in part because the law is ambiguous or doesn’t allow it, and capital metrics and accounting make doing so more or less impossible. Additionally large market makers, brokers, dealers, etc. will start to process trading in crypto assets in a similar way that they do now for other assets. This will rely in part on value generation from real world use. But we’re already seeing stablecoins, BTC and ETH be used for collateral and margining positions by CFTC regulated intermediaries. Remember crypto is 24/7 unlike tradfi. If traditional whales can make money between 5pm-9am using crypto, you bet they’ll play around. Lastly, Bitcoin has historically served as the primary gateway and liquidity anchor for the crypto market. Expanding legitimate use cases and institutional participation across the ecosystem could create additional demand across digital assets generally. A rising tide does not lift every boat equally, but greater adoption of the asset class as a whole is likely positive for the strongest networks. If regulatory clarity increases demand from institutions while available liquid supply remains relatively constrained, even incremental institutional allocation can have an outsized impact on price. This is the same basic dynamic that contributed to strong market reactions around the approval of spot Bitcoin ETPs: a new pool of demand entered a market with limited readily available supply. Obviously the caveat is that regulation alone does not guarantee price appreciation. It creates the conditions for broader participation; actual price impact depends on whether institutions allocate capital, how much they allocate, and broader macro conditions. But Clarity at least creates the market environment to drive allocation.

LuckyWinds

> We are just gonna end up holding BTC in banks, aren't we? If you've been paying attention that has been the plan all long. Hal Finney talked about bitcoin banks in 2011. But people here for some reason don't know that and act like it's some new thing.

IainKay

“How on earth could your BTC be stolen” is what a lot of people were thinking until recently. Your point about generating your own seed is valid though.

submarinefarm

There was a post from 2y ago where someone said 95% of their wealth is in BTC on a coldcard but they are considering converting to an ETF. I do wonder what happened.

H8ckt1v1st

It's not a device problem, it was an inherent issue with the entropy RNG code - which I assure you that thousands of people are reviewing that code right now as well as the patch that was pushed out to mitigate it. As a long term storage solution, I will wait to see if Coinkite folds as a company and no one picks up the codebase. Also as a hardware engineer, the ICs in the coldcard are under intense review as well for any Easter eggs/backdoors for criminal prosecution. Outside of the court of public sentiment, the device remains to be confirmed. The best thing that this incident has caused is a meticulous look at the entire self custody industry. Thanks to Coinkite, everyone is reviewing their design chain of custody and implementation protocols. For the time being, I would leave mine sealed in their OEM boxes as vintage BTC collectors one day might want one.

SaraTalbotAU

Direct swap to BTC in the app then withdraw to Robinhood is usually cheaper than the bank round trip - one trade plus one withdrawal fee beats transfer fees and a couple of days of waiting. Just check the BTC withdrawal minimum and fee on crypto.com first, and Robinhood does accept BTC deposits.

cuteman

If people transacted in BTC how would everyone get rich practicing HODL? It's a bit of a feedback loop to me... People want to get rich holding bitcoin to the moon but in order for BTC to ever become truly widespread you'd have to actually spend them like currency, not hold them, if you did that eventually you'd run out and need to be paid at BTC at baseline current market rates. It's circular

zenethics

My idea was to track the performance for people who got involved in BTC early on their non-BTC ideas. The idea here is that this might be visionaries that see trends before others do (like, maybe they get involved in AI early too). Once a company has 50%+ of NAV in BTC their performance is going to echo that of BTC. It looks like the only candidate that fits the theory is Elon Musk. Michael Saylor is great too, but in a portfolio holding MSTR goes in the "hard money / BTC exposure" bucket whereas TSLA or SPCX would fit in other buckets like "risk growth" or something and filling the other buckets was where my mind was. So, not an argument that MSTR is a bad investment or anything, more of a question of diversifying into something with good management who also have a worldview that understands BTC but whose success or failure isn't largely tied to BTC (here, the low BTC allocation is a plus not a minus - a plus because they own some, and a plus because it's not too much and I can tune my own exposure by having my own BTC proxy bucket).

Good_Extension_9642

"Luckily I only had 0.2 BTC " wtf!

BigDik6355

*OP quickly sends 0.2 BTC to his other wallet*

Ferdo306

Love BTC but this really made me laugh Appreciate it

anymonero

Nobody in DeFi talked about it because it was BTC-only. That's also the reason all those retarded maxi podcasters shilled it. Their argument always was "It doesn't support shitcoins so it means it's more secure". If there's one good thing from this hack, it's that I won't have to hear this dumb argument anymore.

Nossa30

Fuck no. I buy and hold BTC. is Crypto a currency or store of value? Just because you CAN use it as a currency, doesn't mean you should. Sure i CAN use gold to buy groceries, but the lady at the counter is not going to take my gold shavings.

EuphoricDealer4133

Hm ok. Yeah my big concern is say there’s a hack or Bitkey goes up, and we don’t have a seed phrase, how do I move the BTC out of Bitkey. Thanks!

burnt_pubes

"Hello, police. My BTC was stolen from my wallet and moved to this wallet." x 10,000. Same result

SunixKO

You are ignoring every single other thing about what happened..... In a normal every day event, sending one UTXO to another address looks very normal... But knowing that there was bad code in the ColdCard RNG, It doesn't fucking matter how they split the stolen BTC.... Many of the people who lost loads of money can prove that they bought it from an exchange... How will the hackers know what bitcoin is safe or not??? They have to mix it either way.. How can you not understand that?

cuteman

None of what you describe exists It's either MSTR or a company that holds a small portion of assets/cash in BTC or other crypto

Deto

yeah but then you have to acknowledge the fact that BTC can't just exponentially explode forever and when you do that most of the value proposition disappears.

Covid19-Pro-Max

If you generate your own seed and have the device air gapped, how on earth could your BTC be stolen? I agree that coinkite are idiots or criminals or both but I don’t understand how my coldcard could be vulnerable

blaziken8x

Let me hit you with reality. When it comes to investing it takes money to make money. Somebody who says I don't wanna do manual labor and a regular job is not for me, might already have lower chances of doing well with investing. If you want to do well with investing, you need to lower your expenses as much as possible and earn as much money as possible from jobs or any side hustle work, manual labor, whatever it may be. Earn money, then invest it. (if it were me, I'd just be buying BTC, now is a pretty good starting point, it's considered cheap) Also, realistic investing success would be, maybe, doubling your money in like 5 years, if you're looking for 100x memecoins you have already lost. You think you have nothing to lose. But really, with wrong mindset, you're losing time.

zenethics

It doesn't work for a few reasons. 1. The goal would be to track companies whose management understood Bitcoin early, not to track BTC directly (tracking BTC directly is easy) 2. MSTR's operating business is tiny to the point of being irrelevant 3. MSTR isn't even a holding company really, it's more like Saylor's hedge fund where who knows what he'll do next

Civil_Cheesecake439

The perfect card needs trust, simple fees and no weird extra steps. That’s why I’ve been using Oobit for day to day USDT spending and I am not touching my BTC because it doesnt make sense when i have USDT

New_Total_9947

I hated KYC at first too but I kind of separated it by use case. I still wouldn’t keep my main BTC stack in a card app but when I started using Oobit for USDT spending, I treated KYC as the cost of getting access to normal card rails. Not perfect but it makes sense for everyday payments

unknowngloomth

These kind of posts are fucking stupid and low IQ. "Joe bought 1k BTC back in 2009" or "jonh sold 100btc in 2010" blablablabla so what? Nobody knew BTC was gonna be a big deal, dude. I doubt that you'd have held BTC back then.. There's a bunch of alts right now with good tech such as KASPA down to 90% from its ATHs. I doubt you will buy and hold them.

IndustrialPuppetTwo

Investing can be emotionally stressful and even dangerous. Crypto makes that 100 times worse. I would suggest you look into ETFs, bonds, Index Funds and the like and if you absolutely have to be in crypto then don't gamble on anything but BTC.

East-Day-7888

I had chat gpt re-write my thoughts because I can have poor grammar and spelling, but here are my thoughts written by gpt. First, what is a Bitcoin developer? Bitcoin is completely decentralized, with no central authority that can mandate changes. Second, any security update of that magnitude would require a hard fork. What impact would that have on any legal clarity that has already been established? For example: Bitcoin Lightning, Bitcoin Cash, BTC Satoshi Vision (BSV), and Bitcoin itself. At one point, they were all Bitcoin. To make a fundamental change to the network, a new chain has to be created. With that being said, where do we draw the line when we fork the current Bitcoin into a quantum-resistant version? Which chain does that legal clarity apply to? Does it extend to every Bitcoin fork, or only one? If it's only one, who decides? Does it effectively become "Bitcoin: JPMorgan" or some other institution's version, and in doing so lose the very decentralization it was built on? And what do we do with all of the old tokens? Without a mechanism to exchange and burn them, they don't simply disappear. Are we effectively doubling everyone's holdings by creating a new token alongside the old one? Or do we force a mass migration where everyone has to sell or exchange their coins, potentially creating enormous market disruption? I'm not saying these questions can't be answered. But I have serious doubts that a government which took nearly 50 years to even recognize Bitcoin as something worth regulating can solve all of these issues in four years, especially when there is still ongoing debate over the legal classification of Bitcoin itself.

6out

BTC is self accountability... That's one of the risks but comes with the territory ... Same thing with gold in that you can hold it yourself, but then it's on you for the security of it... Kyc is retarded... It's strictly for tracking in disguise... Rich people's rules

immutable_truth

But Bitcoin devs are working on a solution aren’t they? BTC is easy to believe in bc of its history and massive chain that has withstood the test of time. Do you really think there won’t be a consensus quantum-proof solution eventually implemented? (Genuine question btw, not being rhetorical)

Zestyclose_Ad2462

Do you have other investments? I'm guessing not, since you "sold everything". That's mistake #1, not owning other assets/asset classes. Mistake #2 is taking out loans to do this. It MAY pay off but you are one layoff away from financial disaster. Or God forbid, some medical event that disables you. At 29, you may have time to recover BUT... this was VERY risky. With almost $100,000 you could have had a portfolio of 10 investments and 10% in each asset class (SandP500, large/small company stocks, value/growth stocks, same for international and Emerging Markets, plus REIT's). You will have diversified across thousands of companies all over the globe. NOW you can start building into a BTC position. If you're really adamant about having BTC in your portfolio, a 10% position is reasonable (in place of say, REIT's). If it takes off like we all want it to, it'll "juice" your portfolio returns nicely. If it goes to zero, you'll still have 90% of your money in the market, working every day for you. Please, learn from the ColdCard wallet holders. NEVER put all your eggs in 1 basket!

RonnieVoss

Convert it on the Exchange and send a small BTC test to Robinhood first.

coupl4nd

What is an illegitimate coin? How about I care that people could see exactly when I bought BTC and where I moved it to forever more if I didn't mix it?

Zestyclose_Ad2462

When a plane crashes, does everyone stop flying? No. In fact, because of crash investigations, air travel is far safer today than just a few years ago. The problem isn't air travel. It's usually pilot error, mechanical fault or weather. BTC is not "broken". In fact it's much safer today than it was just 3 years ago (because of ETF's), better hard wallets and many exchanges being regulated. Please don't give up on BTC. Nothing in its value proposition has fundamentally changed. The network still runs. Transactions still process. Institutional adoption is still accelerating. It is only going to get bigger, better and more valuable.

ubermensch1001

In my opinion, if you saw something like this happen with Ledger or Trezor the ramifications for the broader crypto market would be enormous. This hack sucks, but it was with approximately 5200 wallets in total, which in the grand scheme of things is NOTHING. There are roughly 22 million addresses with $100+ in BTC and 10.5 milion with $1,000, this hack represents approximately 1 in 5000 of those, I'm sure there were wallets with under $100 as well but we'll just stick with this for the sake of simplicity. This wallet wasn't even in the top 10 and had 5 employees, your local fast food place has more people than that lol. This makes absolutely no sense if you think about it and should ring off alarm bells. The reality is that these people shilling Cold Card on here were possibly paid actors/trolls. To compare though, Ledger has sold over 8 million units and Trezor north of 2 million. Are they perfect, no, but they have been around for a very long time. It makes no sense to buy some no name wallet when you could buy from one of the top brands.

JulC-_

Meanwhile the guy who sold his BTC in 2018 to buy this exact burger is still thinking about it 😔🍔

Just_Bluebird_5268

You're thinking in fiat bro. Doesn't matter it 1 BTC = $100k or 1 BTC = $1 It's the future of money

CipherScarlatti

Well, maybe someday soon somebody will crack one of Satoshi's wallets, move 1 BTC and then we can move on to other things. The lunacy going on in this field is beyond exhausting.

dj_destroyer

Exactly -- it's basically impossible to litigate. Because then everyone could just send their BTC to a random address and claim they were hacked. The seed phrase is quite literally ownership...

SunixKO

Oh no, I fold to your superior logic. Since the stolen BTC is split into smaller addresses, it is not obvious to police and even redditors that these transfers that happened in a 4 block window aren't legit. The hackers surely have fooled everyone because they made separate addresses lmao. It's not like most of these guys have proof of sending this bitcoin from the exchange they bought it on. And now they all decided to send it in this 41 minute window. Doesnt really matter anyway broseph. They are mixing the coins, just like they would if they spent extra time on splitting it up in smaller UTXO, they would still have to mix them...

Kathleensback

Not a chance…. Mixers are only there to scam Him lol nobody wants that BTC.

AvailableTie6834

Why would I ever pay taxes for my BTC? Im not dumb, and the government do not know I possess this BTC in the first place lol.

PlayfulAwareness2950

The interest rate was a much larger driver of the BTC price than inflation.

DontLook_Weirdo

Cycles are the only true lived experience we have with BTC. 17yrs and it's been pretty accurate..it's for that reason that I do listen to it more than I should.

gacu-gacu

Same shit for me. I left PC on and went to a bar. After lots of beers I checked amount and concluded that whatever I get in BTC would show up on my elctricity bill at the end of month. Then deleted app without backing up wallet. Wasnt worth it because I would have to explain to parents whats the deal with electric bill and bigger issue was to replace PC after some time. Btc was maybe $1 back then.

gacu-gacu

Same shit for me. I left PC on and went to a bar. After lots of beers I checked amount and concluded that whatever I get in BTC would show up on my elctricity bill at the end of month. Then deleted app without backing up wallet. Wasnt worth it because I would have to explain to parents whats the deal with electric bill and bigger issue was to replace PC after some time. Btc was maybe $1 back then.

gacu-gacu

Same shit for me. I left PC on and went to a bar. After lots of beers I checked amount and concluded that whatever I get in BTC would show up on my elctricity bill at the end of month. Then deleted app without backing up wallet. Wasnt worth it because I would have to explain to parents whats the deal with electric bill and bigger issue was to replace PC after some time. Btc was maybe $1 back then.

Febos

That is impossible stability. Nothing is that stable. Check price of gold. There is zero % chance it would be so stable for 4 years. It is almost i.posible to stay in that range for next half year. Price of BTC will fluctuate between $40k to $300k from now until 2030.

fastgriz

This right here. Some stolen funds would be reported and watched. The thief would have no way of knowing which stolen BTC was unreported and safe to spend. Even if none were currently reported stolen and watched, that could always be done in the future, so even the currently unwatched wallets couldn't be safely used.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

If a plane crashes, would you stop flying forever? No. The cause of the crash is studied and identified. Reforms are put in place and as a result, air travel is safer today than it ever was. The safest way to travel, statistically speaking. Many had their money stolen this past week, through no fault of their own. Likewise, many people in plane crashes lose their lives. Almost always through no fault of their own. Self-custody should not be shunned entirely. A prudent person never puts all his eggs in one basket. Put some BTC in a cold wallet/self-custody, some on an exchange, some in an ETF using one custodian. Some in another ETF using a different custodian. There are a lotta people here with all their eggs in one basket. This is your chance to diversify before you too, get vaporized.

SunixKO

The BTC would still be "tainted" if it were in 1000 addresses instead of 5.

GrokM14232

The "not a sale" framing is probably tax/accounting driven, not just PR theater. Realized gains on $165M of BTC would be a meaningful hit depending on their basis, so the incentive structure here is pretty obvious. Imo the bigger question is why they're moving it at all if they're actually bullish long-term, because on the margin that does read as de-risking no matter what they call it.

ClassySmokeCannabis

halving just happened lmaooo and it still went in the gutter. I love the concept of btc but its flawed in its own ways and fiat is flawed in otherways. Government (at least in canada) has my back if my life savings are stolen from bank account and they can reverse transactions if its no wire. BTC has no administration, look at the coldcardmess. Someone can attenpt my password in crypto 5 billion times and they won’t be stopped, if someone tried my bank info and the password fails 5 times im locked out. Extremely high chance it stays at current prices for the next 5 years. It lot all the covid hype as well.

Rock_Strongo

> I put virtually every purchase I make on credit cards to earn points. Until there’s a crypto equivalent that is just as frictionless, there’s no reason to transact daily purchases with crypto. Some exchanges have exactly this. I use the Coinbase card which is an American Express card so it's accepted most (but not all) places and I get back 4% in BTC. In addition, I pay it off every month with the USDC I have in my account, which gains ~3.5% (varies based on fed rates) while it sits there waiting to make payments. Is that the same thing as paying with crypto? Not really. But it's good enough for me.

JeffthefearlessDog

putting all eggs in one basket also applies to hardware wallets if you decide to put all your life savings in BTC which is not necessarily optimal. Spreading out your bitcoin to several hardware wallets of different vendors, ETF, Exchanges and stock of BTC companies might be a good idea if your funds exceed a level you dont want to lose at once. Still, its so very sad. You\`d think you can trust a company that has trust as its whole business model.

RetiredAvocado

Be extremely cautious with random paper wallet website suggestions from redditors. Paper wallet sites come and go, and get bought and sold, and have stolen BTC from people using them. See this page on paper wallets https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Paper_wallet Trezor One does not have a secure element. Get at minimum much newer Trezor Safe 3, which isn't very expensive either.

MrSnugs

Kind of. I use my Coinbase credit card daily and pay if off with USDC. Also give me BTC back as a % of money spent.

RandomPlayerCSGO

I just looked this up since I didn't know that El Salvador declassified it as legal tender and a friend of mine visited earlier this year and told me he paid everything in Bitcoin. Apparently the legal tender status was revoked as a requirement from the FMI for giving them a loan, since the FMI is a Keynesian institution and is meant to defend government's control over currency they basically would not give them financing unless they removed Bitcoin as legal tender. But apparently the only thing that has changed is that it is no longer mandatory for businesses to accept BTC, but BTC is still tax exempt and business are still able to legally accept it without any issue, so not much really has change it is mostly a change on paper to make the FMI happy and get their money. Also for your argument I was not arguing against it just wanted to talk about BTC being used as payment in practice. And you are right that if evading the law is the use case laws should not affect price action, that used to be true for BTC in the old days and it is true now for Monero. Midelistings in Europe and regulation against it have not had a negative price action, in fact price has been growing steadily since then and now growth seems stronger and more organic. But Bitcoin is no longer like this because even if the fundamentals are meant to be anti system Bitcoin is now used as investment asset by many legal institutions, and demand for it as a legal means of investment is the biggest demand for it right now, so regulation affects because of it, if it was banned for example blackrock, MicroStrategy and all companies would be forced to sell or go to jail. While if Monero was banned no one would care cause all holders know being an anti system asset is the whole point.

InsightKnite

"Of the 138 live crypto cards I track, 137 run on Visa or Mastercard." So once again proving that without fiat crypto has no vehicle to actually work. You can't even price out a crypto value without fiat to reference the value of. If there were no fiat on the planet how much would 1 BTC be worth? (heads explode). 🤣

Safe_Maximum6666

Well, I mined 78 BTC in 2013 just to lose it to ICO scams in 2017. That's worse than dreaming about having mined.

DaseR9-2

random user on reddit thinks hacker that stole millions in BTC is "stupid" 🤡 i doubt he cares about "high transaction fees" , he could pay 10 or 100 times the fees and wouldnt care. do you really think someone stole millions without thinking about how he is going to cash out / launder that BTC? certain entities do not give a single fuck about "tainted coins" or what ever you gonna call em. your whole posts reads like someone that has 0 clue of what he is talking about, trying to lecture someone that stole tons of money with ideas that are even stupider 🤷

NoParamedic7831

Respectfully, I think you're just missing a few things here. There are no gas fees in Bitcoin, and a modest day of mixing could clean all the funds. There are other things they did that were dumb (like only sweeping wallets above 1.15 BTC), but nothing from your list. Hard to tell how competent the hacker is at this phase.

Fun-Minimum-4715

I would long 100x BTC on a non kyc futurues

Impossible-Scene5084

Sure, but under the hood every single system on earth fundamentally works based on the confidence users communally have in it. Confidence is the secret currency of the world, and this whole episode is massively damaging for confidence in BTC (which for the vast majority is synonymous with “crypto”)

2xfun

Please enlighten us with what you think are the fundamentals of AI and BTC

Character-Notice8580

When someone pays with BTC does it tell you on your screen? Or does it just look the same as if they paid with a credit card?

FunkyGrass

This has nothing to do with how BTC & Crypto fundamentals work. If anything, makes you understand better how safety works.

Character-Notice8580

when I pay with BTC using the new toggle, does the seller have any real time indication that I paid with BTC on their screen?

mathaiser

Yes, you yourself can take 24 random words from a group of 2048 words and enter them in a wallet and hope you find one with funds on it. This has been happening since day one and people have huge computers trying this every single moment. Unfortunately for you, if the entire solar system was filled all the way full with computers the size of an atom, it would still take longer than the life of the universe to find just one. It’s a fools errand, you would have more luck guessing the numbers to powerball correctly 7 times in a row than find a BTC private key that has funds.