BTC

VariatCA

If you bought something in cash and kept it at your house, then its value suddenly dropped -30%, would you be *forced* to sell (liquidate) it? No lmao. It's still your property, but just worth less. This is MSTR and their BTC holdings. There's no StOp LoSs / Liquidation point, they *own* it.

RandomJoe7

In general I believe alt coins will lose relevancy as the market matures. You can already tell how much the hype has died down compared to previous cycles, where everyone was super enthusiastic about "the tech" etc. But it turns out the tech is more or less useless (or can be accomplished without having to have a highly volatile/expensive coin behind it). Too many people have had bad experiences with shitcoins, memecoins, scams, rug pulls, NFTs, etc. and thus they are much less likely to ever touch them again. People have realized they're more or less all copy/paste useless crap. Yes, you can make money with them, but it's gambling. And instead of 100's or 1000's of alt coins like in old cycles, you now have millions. So even if people still invest in alt coins, those investments are getting much more diluted across many more coins. I even think ETH will lose relevancy over time (very slow bleed). BTC will have a future as a "digital gold" investment, but obviously the 10x and 100x's of the past are also long gone, it will keep maturing and flattening out like stocks etc.

CyberWeaponX

Lesson number one: Never listen to influencers. At best, these are just dumbasses who have no clue about what will happen. At worst, these are downright scummy people that will simply dumb their bags on you and other gullible prey. Lesson number two: Crypto is a risky investment, especially if you bought pure shitcoins instead of just sticking to BTC. And especially after it went up in the end of 2024. if you invested in Gold, you would have profited instead or had less worries. The market reaches a new low every day with no clear bottom or stop. No stability, just a sharp decline after a Bart Simpson pattern forms. What you do it your decision.

tysnowboard

There's only 10k Bored Apes, so those are even rarer than 1BTC, go get 'em!

Real-Technician831

Of course you don’t, that goes with the territory. I wizened up when I held when BTC first time hit 20K. Although last time I cashed in BTC was at 60K ATH, I didn’t have play money due to house construction on this ATH.

tysnowboard

BTC next year

TimTheGrim55

Yeah I guess I'll have to sell some other more stable assets because I sure as hell won't sell BTC now. I was like 'thats my last chance to be a wholecoiner' and the rest is history. Fucking hope my wife doesn't read here lol

VariatCA

And the average price of BTC throughout 2021 (40k) adjusted would be about 48k. Comparing peak-to-current price is a bit disingenuous. Peak-to-peak is 69k (83k adj) vs 126k. 2021-average to 2025-average is 40k vs ~90k. The vast, vast majority of people decidedly did *not* buy anywhere near 69k in 2021.

RandomJoe7

Well, the sky IS falling right now. Crypto is heading to bear season again, and anyone buying know is just buying into a falling knife and will lose % pretty fast in the next weeks/months. Yes, of course, it might have some bounces in between, but overall trend I mean. Don't buy now. Don't be the exit liquidity for others. Wait 1-2 years, then buy. Then hold for 2 years or so and sell on the next ATH. And only buy BTC, forget about all the other shitcoins. And while I dont think ETH is a shitcoin, I do think it's going to keep losing relevancy long term.

lmaomitch

Similar thing but sold 6ish BTC when it was at ~$160 (total value was $1000)

JeremyLinForever

There’s something called selling to set up a family trust for his future generations. Having a BTC stack for self-custody is ideal for one person, but when you have multiple family members in the picture, it makes sense to sell off a portion of your stack, set up a trust with the gains, and since he probably still does believe BTC is the premier and best asset to hold, he can set up a brokerage account under the trust name and buy any spot Bitcoin ETF.

TurkishBitcoiner

Only around 60% of all supply is in profit, that's literally has not been seen since 2023. It's a really rare moment. I think people who would have sold at a loss already sold and we should be bouncing up soon. Every market is in extreme fear, every market is down, BTC RSI is at an all time low, BTC's fear greed is also extreme fear, stocks are down, rate cuts are possibly not happening. All the indexes have been negatively effected the past few weeks, it's no wonder BTC is down. Guys just think, when SP and NASDAQ rises back to their ATH and higher, which it needs to rise about 8.5% for nasdaq and around 5-5.5% for SP500, don't you think BTC will follow with explosive gains? I assume when (dunno when, could be few months or weeks from now) SP and NASDAQ recovers to their ATH and pumps beyond it, BTC will be above 100k, going up and up.

JeremyLinForever

Thank you. Sometimes, there’s people who are skeptical but optimistic, and there are those that just need someone to tell them to sell their stack because that comment will force them to either snap out of it or really do so. If they end up selling, then they were never meant to hold BTC to begin with.

Actual_Pattern_265

To put inflation in perspective: the ~69,500K high of 2021 would be around $83,400 today. Amazing what high inflation does to dollar value. So BTC, after only a 30% correction - and potentially only the start of a bear market (maybe) - is already very close to where it was 4 years ago when inflation adjusted. This is much worse than people realize.

External_Anteater730

It's ironic that Satoshi wanted BTC to be a new monetary system to move away from fiat- but ultimately BTC is nothing more than a pseudo-fiat backed by nothing

Quixotus

How much lower is BTC heading to? Isn't this enough already?

Possible_Peak_7929

I'm not an OG, but my DCA is about 33k. I'm excited to see it fall a bit so I can buy some cheap BTC.

HangOnSloopy62

In the US, if I transfer BTC to the barista for a cup of coffee, it is technically a taxable event so IDK why this would be different.

Budget_Eye5861

The pattern in this example is that most people are stupid. BUT - I know you want the BTC pattern. Watch PLAN B on YouTube. \[link below at bottom\]. You can go back to 2019 and watch every video. Compare anything you want - just listen to this guy. He puts to paper, everything inside my brain about BTC. Truely weird to me. Up until about the middle of this year \[2025\] because - He appears to be getting off base with some non-sense about there still might be a chance in this BTC cycle to moon further - but it's not going to - sorry about ya. I believe that he will have to come to the understanding that, we are in a period of diminishing returns. I am hopeful that we are on a S-CURVE and the depression should resolve within the next cycle or (2). After the depression, within the S-CURVE, we c/should see synergistic growth for the final gut punch to world domination - it's a thing, that's gonna happen - later on Just remember that - 2041 is a good year for everybody :-D Watch this >> : [PlanB - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@PlanB_Bitcoin) He never does a video in September so, no - it's not missing. ENJOY - because this post will DELETE at some point in time >>> soon

External_Anteater730

Also, don't forget that the US has been injecting trillions because of the war in Iraq and Wall Street abusing the defense primes to pump markets up. BTC was riding that wave, and continued all the way until now.

non3type

No prediction is needed in a situation where you already made gains and the current bag you holding is in the read. It’s literally sell the 1 BTC you bought 115 and immediately buy 1 BTC for 86.

TylerDurden6969

I sold all my BTC a few days ago. Made a post. The amount of people calling me a paper handed idiot was pretty high. This is a validating day of feelings. Maybe buy back at $70k.

External_Anteater730

Simple- gold's historically valuable and unlike Bitcoin has an increasing supply. Before the need for fiat to finance the wars in England against the French, etc. and the US and its forever wars gold/specie was widely accepted because every culture needed something tangible and rare enough. The increasing supply was slow enough to generate enough inflation to stimulate spending with the decreased value over time. Also, given your grammar I don't think you even know how to do normalized regression. You follow the percentage of the deltas, not the magnitude- you could also compare the graphs after normalizing them. You can clearly see how gold and BTC have no correlation- BTC was and will never be a store of value, but a speculation. SPY after COVID with the trillions injected into the market by JPow made the market more manic than it would otherwise rationally be, and it's lasted until now. Literally nothing but a fancy tulip.

Real-Technician831

Speaking of which, adjusted to inflation BTC gains have been quite unimpressive for soon five years.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Crypto whales are closing long positions on Bitcoin (BTC) and Ethereum (ETH) amid market challenges, realizing significant losses. One whale closed BTC and ETH long positions with a $10.68 million loss and opened a 6x leveraged ETH short position. Another whale incurred a $6.2 million loss and opened a 2x leveraged ETH short position. On-chain data highlights increased liquidations and bearish sentiment among major traders, reflecting broader market uncertainty and declining demand despite institutional interest in Bitcoin ETFs. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

The_Establishmnt

Having no diversity and only going into BTC is a huge mistake.

justcurious3287

IMO, yes. I look up top cryptocurrencies lists, or best cryptocurrencies list, and they show up often. They also both have a huge market cap and good real-world utility. BTC and ETH are the best, but XRP and SOL are both runners up, IMO.

feltusen

Its like BTC and adoptation. Any day now

non3type

Right so if you had gains when you sold at 123 you’re going to have to pay taxes on that. If you sell all the BTC you bought at 115 and repurchase at 86, you know have losses you can report.

Everest2017

Buy BTC and don't buy Zcash. This is a financial advice.

Virtual-Translator96

Goat! We will achieve our 1BTC goal and more, faith is important

cognitiveDiscontents

For a moment of sanity check out CNNs market wide fear and greed index. BTC price is reflecting whole market sentiment. For those of you who think this is a cycle ending drop and we’re entering a long bear, consider that the cycles are over or shrinking and whole market sentiment has a stronger effect then before. This was also the case in 2022 when bitcoin fell with the rest of the market. They halving cycle hypothesis has had some historical support but in the last 5 years the overall market has had a stronger effect. Consider that we broke the ATH before the halving this year. Was that just anticipation of the halving or was that strong macro conditions?

Cloudy_simulation

I feel your pain. I bought 1.4 BTC for $240, and sold it for $1200 thinking I did well. Sucks

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The cryptocurrency market experienced a sharp downturn, with Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH), and Ripple (XRP) leading the decline. BTC dropped to a seven-month low of just over $88,000, while ETH fell below $2,900 and XRP tested the $2.00 level. Over $180 million in liquidations occurred within an hour, primarily from long positions, contributing to a total of $750 million liquidated in the past 24 hours. Nearly 220,000 traders were affected, with the largest single liquidation worth over $24 million. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

AlertCrab9829

BTC Dominance dropping, I think we are close to alt season guys

Money_Storm8799

I've thought about that... IDK how you go from buying or mining thousands of BTC when it was pennies or in the single digits, then holding through blocksize wars, environmental FUD, China bans, regulatory scares, 80% drawdowns, etc. and now - with all the positive headway that bitcoin has won - suddenly decide it has no future. I've held since 2015 and I'm not selling right now, but I'm also not a whale that could sell a portion of my stack for a $1B and still have BTC left over. I would guess most of these guys are just wanting to lock in profits and diversify into less volatile assets or simply wanting to spend and enjoy the money while they are still in good health. A lot of us are getting older and if there's one thing less scarce than bitcoin, it's time. I would also bet they are not selling their full stacks. I know I wouldn't.

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Budget_Eye5861

meh - been at this since 2013 Got BTC figured out in 2019 Been riding them waves ever since Let me know if you ever want to really make some money. \-yawn- I sleep when I want to :-D

twill41385

This is what I hear every time someone panics. They put money they can’t afford to lose and might need short term into a highly volatile asset. Barring a black swan event I have no need for my BTC in the next 10+ years. At least it’s entertaining to watch.

WalrusHonda

Every mag 7 and BTC all drop at precisely 11am today eh? Somethings little fishy here . And because of that I’m actually not worried haha

Budget_Eye5861

BTC has a (4) year pattern of HALVING You should research it You should learn it You should live by it You should buy into it You should Hodl it \- later - You Sodl it Then you rest for about 12 months And do it all over again You only get the details from me if you truly wish to pay attention Other than that - go out into the world and find it yourself

justcurious3287

Crypto investing is the love of my life. Market crashes don't bother me, they're simply part of the job. If you pick a good coin like BTC, and you're patient, there's money to be made.

Visible-System-4420

Are you really here talking about going from $10 to $2? My crypto portfolio is down $480k. And its just a temporary bear market in my opinion. I believe it will recover. If it doesnt recover and $BTC isnt higher by June send me a message and maybe ill send you the $8.00 you lost.

lexaloncrack_

Don't panic sell bro, we learn with mistakes I did some mistakes too, actually I'm not profitable. Keep your BTC and stay strong

Chrysalis1111

I have piled up Bitcoin and have a clear vision of the future. You are the one asking what will BTC do when the future is shitty like today? So yeah, keep projecting or get smarter, choice is yours.

stefansilva_xrp

sure it did but BTC also used to have way higher upside XAU and SPX have outperformed BTC this entire year.

binary_quasar

No utility? Clearly you haven't spent much time outside of your bubble. Go to a place like Nigeria, Ghana, Brazil, Argentina, etc and ask them if it is useful. From a global standpoint, access to the dollar is incredibly useful and it's far less accessible than you probably think. Money services do not have easy or inexpensive ways to convert their currency into dollars. They dont have banks that will do this without taking a large chunk off the top. Access to BTC is a way they can send value back home and easily convert it into dollars or their nations currency using an exchange. Square just allowed feeless bitcoin transactions for millions of merchants using the lightning network as well. You're just naive and wrong, bro.

New_Possibility6787

This mentality is so stupid and usually from people who have tiny amounts invested in bitcoin... the time to get rich on bitcoin was when it was 1k and lower. The only people who are ever going to see retirement money off of bitcoin is if you have over 100k invested (assuming it doesnt drop to like 50k this year). AND if it hits like 1 million in 10 years. And that's the 'perfect' scenario. If you have less than 100k in BTC and you want to 'get rich'. You have better odds trying to pump and dump meme stocks.

Katamali

With your experience, would you buy BTC at this level?

vibs1018

I’m not even dissing BTC but and I know it’s going to bounce back to 110k-120k but it’s purely a speculative play. It’s not a fu**** asset as these guys have been jerking off too. I’m just mad at these fake hype enthusiasts

Abberate96

Nobody wants to see BTC fall harder than actual bitcoiners

coyote500

BTC is gonna hit $60k. that will be your opportunity

Reddit_isa_Psyop

People need some patience. It's time to hold. This is a shake out. It's meant to instill panic selling. The US govt is quietly accumulating BTC for a reason. Don't be a statistic. Hold and look away for a while. Find other investments or if you went all in, focus on your day job. Seriously...this stuff happens all the time between stocks and crypto. Time after time I see people panic selling when patience would win the day.

External_Anteater730

BTC is the new tulip. No utility aside from "value goes up, value must go up". The only thing it truly correlates with is SPY/VXUS. A fifth grader with GPT can write a Python script to determine the correlation index. As the economy wanes and the vast amount of Americans (and Chinese, look at the crashing housing market there rn), people need to liquidate to survive. And like the tulip- the dip accelerates as it falls.

non3type

It’s still up from this time a year ago. It’s doing way better than 2021, took BTC 2 years to recover and it fell harder, faster.

TimTheGrim55

I feel exactly like the guy in the middle currently as I bought half a BTC at 95k/BTC a week ago with money that should've been for our future family home....fml

VariatCA

If you understand how Strategy operates, you'd abandon wasting energy waiting for it. It's literally not happening lol. Even right now, today, BTC's still 10k above his average buy-price.

Negative_Salt_4599

Just buy Bitcoin. Crypto will never be established like they claim. Fly by night digital currencies other than BTC will not replace the US dollar. 💵 That takes too much power away from the federal reserve. Could be wrong but BTC always offers profits if you hold for 3-5 years. It’s that simple.

Opposite-Car2809

Just making a comparison between sentiments in april and now: April: LIBERATION DAY tarrif, China-US tarrif war, high possibility of recession like everyone thinks there will be a recession at end of the year, no rate cuts on horizon, stocks dropping 20% in 2 months, extreme fear in the market Now: stocks dropping only 5% crypto 30-70%, some alts create new low, BTC and majority alts penetrate under 50wma and no recovery and keeps bleeding down. Sentiments extreme fear, no hope no hopium left, liquidity tightening, many people worrying about 2000-like economic crash, delayed rate cuts, no QE on horizon, global liquidity is also going down. which one is worse?

remithril

One of BTC golden rule : DCA

2capshanker

Then sell your stack bud 🤷‍♀️ nobody knows what the future holds…but what we do know is…21 million BTC…infinite amount of $ in the federal reserve…

TurkishBitcoiner

Nasdaq is down 7.5% fro ATH, SP500 is down 5% from ATH. Bigger market indexes are down quite a bit and BTC is amplified version of them, although we are down about 32% from ATH BTC wise, theoratically most drawdowns were around this range of between 25 to 35 %, if BTC falls below 80k and continues to fall that's a 100% confirmation of a bear market, if it bounces up around these prices then it's a correction and most likley the whole market is also rallying upwards.

delf0s

OGs are dumping too. A BTC 2011 whale just dumped 1.3B worth of BTC

HigreCrypto

I don’t care about support levels, because I don’t trade - I hodl. That is because i believe in future value of BTC, and that I am a lousy gambler and would trade it all away. So here is my investment strategy and why there never are such thing as a bear market: 1. never invest more than I can afford to lose 2. I invest on behalf of my kids - they will be the ones benefiting of this when starting their own lives outside of the nest - therefore timeframe is 10-15+ years from now. Short term dips doesn’t matter. 3. you know the «fucking legend» meme? That will be me in the future. I will be the fucking legend when my kids get the keys to the BTC. And if BTC flops? Well; they don’t know about the investment. 4. and most important, and I can’t stress enough how important this is: my wife has accepted the terms, and has my back. Every time shit hits the fan and a years salary disappears from the value in weeks, she is always there reassuring that this is money we can lose, this is not our money (kids future money), and the strategy is to become a fucking legend if BTC goes to a million. And if it should all crash and burn; it’s only money.

No-Reaction-9364

There is a serious question if quantum computing can break the algorithm causing security issues with BTC in the next few years. Isn't 1.3 billion enough?

Maleficent-Bill5516

hey there, if you already have BTC and ETH on your list, you could look at steady long-term picks like SOL, ADA, or LINK since they all have real use cases and aren’t just hype. You can grab any of them through Jumper Exchange and then just hold and see how they play out over the next few years.

Tway_UX

I think Glassnode basically found that ETH holders move and spend their coins frequently than Bitcoin holders. It makes sense since people use ETH in DeFi and swaps on places like Jumper Exchange, while BTC is mostly treated like digital gold.

ilikeplayingthisgame

BTC is painfully reminding me of when I cheated on my wife for the hottest girl in the village. I left SPX for this BS. Everything is not as it seems.

Laicosin

Blackrock is moving BTC to coinbase just for fun then? Because it sure looks like they can't find an otc buyer for everything they need to dump...

originaltraveler

It’s an emergent result of the block reward schedule Bitcoin’s 21-million limit comes directly from: 50 BTC starting block reward Halving every 210,000 blocks (\~4 years) 10-minute average block time Total BTC issued = 50 × 210,000 × (1 + ½ + ¼ + ⅛ + …) The geometric series sums to 2: 50 × 210,000 × 2 = 21,000,000 BTC So the number 21 million wasn’t selected independently — it falls out of the block-reward formula.

Laicosin

Blackrock is moving BTC to coinbase just for fun then? Because it sure looks like they can't find an otc buyer for everything they need to dump...

Baecchus

BTC might close two years in the red if it closes 2025 below 93.4k and next year happens to be a bear market, which is probably the case. As far as I know it would be a first.

mrjune2040

You must be new because this is a walk in the park. BTC used to have waaaay higher than 4-5% daily drawdowns.

ilikeplayingthisgame

me, for picking BTC over SPX

Marcelstinks

It’s not been great under Trump. No parabolic runs on BTC or any Alts. I wanted Trump to be elected but he has been terrible for Crypto.

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Afr0Karma

Fundamentally BTC at current price is the same as BTC at ATH. Just dca and ride the wave

KFC_Tuesdays

It’s not timing the market it’s taking profits, BTC was at 125k if you don’t think that’s a good time to take profit then I’d reconsider your investment “skills”

Accomplished_Fix5702

THEY'RE are not scared of Bitcoin as such, they are protecting THEIR customer base, THERE are too many scams pretending to be Bitcoin, or buying Bitcoin that the buyer finds they don't get ownership of. They are protecting stupid people from being taken for too much money. If you want to spend more than their set limits on Bitcoin you will be able to, but you will need to have a conversation with them first. It's not anti Bitcoin, it is anti-scam. Not everything is a conspiracy against Bitcoin. Bitcoin is an easy vehicle for scams, taking advantage of greedy fools. Mind you, BTC can't be attracting too many newbies hoping to get rich quick at the moment.

jaz9999

4-5 years is a long time and I actually did that in the last bear market lmao I'm still making profit on my BTC and ETH (not as much as if I'd sold a month ago) but I'd rather take my money out now and put it back in when either a) crypto tanks and we have a bear market or b) there's more positive sentiment and it looks like a 2nd run is starting

CryptographerNo9254

Someone was holding BTC when it was at 126k and never sold. Why are they selling at 86k?

Motorsgone

It didn't go down to 5 cents & we stored our BTC in wallets on our pc's - MT GOX creditor speaking

MySanuk

If measured in USD, then this is the second largest crash in BTC history,. Largest crash was the FTX 48K USD crash. If we crash below 78K, it will be a new record. Support at 82K and of course 69420.

deten

I want to see my crypto go up, but I think this is very healthy. If BTC drops below April low of mid 70k then I will be more concerned, but for now I think seeing a pullback emulates what weve seen in the past where new highs are tested and a big pullback. This just leads the way to bigger and better highs and DCA your holdings.

_TheWolfOfWalmart_

BTC hasn't looked this weak in such a short amount of time since April 2022.

binary_quasar

Lmao ya'll are so naive and shortsighted, it's actually mind-blowing. >old technology Lmao it's a first-of-its-kind decentralized network that can be upgraded as necessary. People like you are the same types that fall for the quantum-resistant crypto narratives, and have almost no idea that if SHA-256 was broken we would literally have to change the entire traditional TradFi system first. Crypto would be the least of our worries in that scenario. We can see WLFI wallets. They are still accumulating BTC. If you are talking about altcoins like Melania, or Trump coin then anybody who purchased those absolutely deserve to get pwned in a rug pull.

Sea_Variety_1691

BTC will be back one day

t_rexXray

China said the US government stole its BTC and the market immediately crashed.

Glass-Lifeguard1919

Top has already been in. We had a weekly close under the 50 week SMA already. A 2nd close below it (roughly 103k ish last i checked) has always marked the start of the bear market in every single instance in BTC's existence. Hold your spot HODL bags because anything can happen, but time to get out of the market and buy back in mid-late next year.

stefansilva_xrp

True but why do you think we are nearing pre rate cut price for the SP500 and Yearly low for BTC

Stormyy98x

Only stack BTC.

Prudent_Albatross939

If 1 BTC is a whale what is .1 BTC called?

bimbobandit2016

This is one thing that's surprised me all cycle. You would have thought Binance would try and force an alt season just to keep people interested in crypto, because if crypto becomes BTC only, then ETFs will surely win over exchanges

BainTrain55

It’s was once trump coin came out we all got screwed. He realized he can just pump and dump his own shitcoin so he didn’t need BTC anymore.

MushyGooey

It's going to sub-50k before it cracks $125k+ again. Likely $44k down to a potential local bottom of $38k. If you want to buy at $87k rather than shovel that cash in at sub-50, be my guest. We'll see who is in a better BTC position come 2027/28.

BlackDog990

I think most view it as a high risk, high reward investment. It doesn't matter if structurally it would make a great inflation hedge/safer haven asset if humans don't treat it that way. Unfortunately the macro environment is on edge right now, and clearly humans aren't treating BTC like a safe haven asset.

Premium_Hunter

This dude trying to shame me for owning IBIT instead of my own BTC. Blackrock will do a much better job handling that shit than I ever could. Also - BTC down 7% from a year ago. However, I've pocketed over $30k in premiums since then from selling covered calls against my shares.

DeeDee-7

Learn of BTC at $17k; during the bull-market. Made sense to ‘hurry up & buy’ smh. Crypto education is everything.

biba8163

It's crazy how BTC hit $20K in 2017 less than a day and we still count BTC ATH at $20K. Or BTC hit $69K for less than a day in 2021 and we still count BTC ATH as $69K or even $70K. But saying some shitcoin like XRP was over $3 for 3 weeks in 2018 is offensive.

_SlipperySalmon_

I'm tired of hearing about how the OGs have had it SOOO much harder Hodling. I don't know if I believe that. unless someone yolod half to all their net worth in bitcoin back in the day, then watching the price move around would be stressful. But, for many OGs, im sure it is that they put maybe a few thousand dollars in and watched it run up exponentially.. Current investors generally aren't looking for dramatic returns like the benefit of the early investors. But, to feel like you can get a decent return you have to invest a lot of dollars now. So, the more recent BTC crew is putting way more capital into this and watching that disappear without a clear reason