BTC

Asleep_Conference_57

>why fiat is more worthless over time Just to wade in here on a technicality: fiat itself may become worthless over time ($1 buys less now than $1 did x years ago), but only if the real interest rate is negative. Fiat currencies allow the accumulation of interest whereas BTC by its very nature does not. It's not fair to say therefore that all fiat becomes worthless. If you can earn more interest per annum on that currency than prices rise, by definition it is becoming more valuable over time. This is the case across USD, GBP etc. right now and has been for a decent chunk of history.

termin8rs

People like you are why civilized people don’t tell anyone they hold BTC.

Fun_Professor_4324

With all the chai analysis companies and AI watching the chain, it’s very unlikely for them to cash out 18k BTC. Bitcoin doesn’t have a proper working mixing service like Tornado Cash or Railgun that ETH has. The amount is too big, everyone has their eyes wide open. My guess is it will stay still for a very long time

jacd03

I don't think there's any money sidelined waiting for BTC specifically. People can get similar (or better) returns in the stock market right now, compared to investing in BTC at 76K just to wait 3 years for it to 2x if you manage to sell the top, it's still expensive for a lot of investors. An speculative assets with little upside and a lot of room to drop is the least asymmetrical bet you could take right now. You’d be taking crypto-level drawdowns for returns that a good stock can match or beat.

nachtraum

Not only BNB. BTC and the whole crypto markets should have tanked massively. The reaction is pretty muted. Terrible news and not much of a reaction is usually bullish.

vega-mgtow

>Haha your **gf's boyfriend** now has 3 BTC

AIGrammarBot

It’s not inflation free. Why do people say this. If inflation gets bad people sell BTC to pay bills etc and the value decreases. All you wackos think BTC is still going to be worth something if the world gets nuked. Jeeesh. BTC is no more valuable than the USD and will be destroyed just as quickly as the USD of shit goes down.

brdoc

Whenever if ever BTC is hackable all bank accounts all around the world have already been compromised, security systems, nuclear codes etc, if you have fiat money that's a bigger problem than crypto.

brdoc

It's an inflation free store of value, you don't use BTC to buy gum at a convenience store. In other words, you rarely do transactions, just hodl. It's not that bad

Bel_Air_Fresh

I am assuming...and it's a big assumption....that ETF Bitcoin holdings at coin base and other exchanges utilise multi sig security. Hopefully they're not kept on Cold Cards and Ledgers...and Trezors from third party resellers.....or OTHER BTC ETFS!

28klotlucas2

"Bitcoin DOWN to only $100" "Experts warn Bitcoin may fall to only $500" "Crypto bubble finally popping? BTC down to only $10,000" "Bitcoin is back at it again! Only $77,000"

tenor_tymir

A lot of people were surprised by the 40% rise of BTC from June to September. They slept on going in earlier because the 40k-gang was still waiting for the October crash. Well, a lot of money is still sidelined and people are waiting for the price to go down again. What you see now is sidelined money taking the chance to enter the market at cheaper prices.

tta82

Haha your gf now has 3 BTC

Top-Care-8946

If Bitcoin gets cracked then I think that all the current ongoing AI boom might "blast" to zero. I think that it initiates chain reaction that will beat down the modern era economy and monetary system (capitalism) because too much finances has been buried into both: crypto and AI. None of biggest BTC shareholders are ready to lose it all as the same should be also AI industry owners/investors. Because it means a huge shift of ownership of corporations that leads to the total chaos of global economy and financial industry.

MackinCeleBrini

You can't change what something is and what people get from it with a white paper. I don't think I've looked it over in quite some time, and I have no particular interest in revisiting it. BTC was a wealth transfer to holders, incredibly successfully so until half a decade ago when the growth slowed into generic investments assets options.

knguyen_tx

Same switch happened for me. I mostly track two numbers now: total sats and my average cost per BTC. Watching the sat count go up every month during a dip is way more motivating than staring at a dollar chart. I still log the dollar cost of every buy though, because you need it at tax time anyway and it keeps the average honest.

knguyen_tx

Not a tax pro, but since FBTC is an ETF the sale should show up on your 1099-B like any other stock sale, and that's the form your CPA will want to see. I'd run the swap past one before you do it, mainly so they can confirm how the wash sale rules apply to your situation this year. Practical tip: once you're holding spot BTC, log every buy from day one (date, BTC amount, USD paid, fees). Exchange cost basis gets spotty once coins move to your own wallet, and rebuilding it later is miserable.

IAmFitzRoy

You are giving too much credit to scarcity without understanding, the reason that BTC has value is because TRUST, not scarcity. Anyone can make a fork of Bitcoin but will never catch up, why? Because people trust first movers. If tomorrow everyone stop trusting Bitcoin its value will drop like a rock.

read_more_comments

Mt fox trustee fucked us hard when he kept dumping in big batches during BTC peaks, effectively ending the rally. I assume the hacker will want what they can get and not do the same to us.

MackinCeleBrini

BTC isn't a currency it's an investment you hold to get higher purchasing power later when you trade it in. Through 2021 it was basically unparalleled at that. Now it's just sort of an asset like any other to invest in. Given at trillions and many cycles of diminishing growth, it's not doing more than other asset classes anymore. It isn't expected to significantly outperform them going forward either, but it may still beat a good amount of them who knows.

Smiletaint

It’s called math? USD has a supply that never stops growing. There’s less than 21,000,000 BTC. Imagine if there were only 21,000,000 USD in the world. What do you think you’d be able to buy with 1? How much would it be worth?

b1mm3rl1f3

Stocks imploding, Binance suffers the biggest hack of all time, BTC down less than -5%, bears are aggressively typing "it's over" again.

rs1971

I kind of feel like this as well. I'm not a hardcore bitcointer; I haven't looked at the code or even run my own node, but I was a software developer for thirty years, so in general I'm much more technical than the average person. I have my BTC mostly on a Ledger with a little bit on a Blockstream Jade. I bought both directly from the manufacturer. I haven't bought any BTC or touched either wallet in several years and if you had asked me six months ago, I would have said that I felt totally safe. But between the Cold Card and Ledger hacks, I'm definitely getting a bit nervous. For the first time, I really am considering jutst liquidating my position and being done with all of this.

tenor_tymir

yes we could - but what would selling BTC help?

voodoobunny999

$6.36 billion here, $1.5 billion there, pretty soon you’re talking REAL MONEY! We were always told BTC was REAL MONEY. I just didn’t think they meant it like this. Real question: Is Satoshi North Korean?

No_Resolution8762

BTC has a huge TAM (X00T+) and it has only captured 1.6T so far. Accumulate while you can.

cocouf

Now she has 3 BTC

IAmFitzRoy

So the idea of BTC is better than inflation is that BTC will grow in value against USD indefinitely? Okey I thought it had a more substantial logic, I see that there is no logic just hope.

amnesiac010

Huh. I would expect a loss of confidence in the platform (and coins involved that weren't able to be frozen or recooped), triggering an overall loss in valuation for BTC.

WobblyTaterTot

I'm a 2012 BTC person. Harbor wallets are just mini exchanges in the minds of those of us from the beginning. If you didn't have your keys on a piece of paper with literally no third-party involved, whatsoever, you didn't have your keys. Hardware wallets are not what all of you guys treat them as. They require people. Software. None of that is where the "not your keys, not your coins" mentality stemmed from. Nobody was thinking hardware wallets when that was first written. They were thinking paper wallets. Still a third-party, but it was like a website that millions had hardened for years and the code never changed. It was just a way to generate characters. Very, very different.

No_Cartographer1492

\> Despite that, since I started accumalating BTC rather yound (over 10 year ago), I have always used a Electrum wallet that is considered "hot". This is not against you, OP, but I can see that the largest obstacle for massive adoption of Bitcoin is human stupidity.

Ninjanoel

Eth can't be frozen as well. You BTC maxi's are so silly, usually because you ill-informed. What about when BTC printed billions of bitcoins? Should Eth-maxi's be shouting "twenty one million my arse, this is why I use [insert shit coin her]"?

OdonsOwn1966

Well I guess my next couple of DCA purchases will get me fractionally more BTC. Good thing it's my play money, of course my main investments got hammered today. Hope my Roth 401k money from work is buying stuff today, will probably be Monday after a massive rebound. Pass the lube :)

amnesiac010

Weren't 18,270 BTC stolen? Why would this not cause btc to lose value?

buckerooni

This is more of a NK problem than a BTC problem

13Angelcorpse6

I took the meaning as the poor don't have access to enough fiat. I am a New Zealander, society excluded me from working and paid me a benefit. My limitations prevent access to enough fiat. I'm going to stick with BTC as it is a better strategy than buying lotto. I will aim for BTC outperforming everything else and not making a mistake. But I might advise my daughter to sell her BTC and just invest in Voo.

crimeo

You can meet a guy in a parking lot and hand him a briefcase of cash while you both wait for the BTC to clear. Good luck not getting stabbed.

Lucky-Interview-7689

So maybe I overstated "every property at once." Market cap is price times supply, and can't be compared it to payment flows. And a 2-of-3 multisig can help with a lost key. And the October Chainalysis report is better data than the January one I cited: activity fell about 80% at the start of the Feb-May shutdown and recovered to over 75% of baseline before it ended. SO? Now the last paragraph, which is where our disagreement really lies. Let's stop talking about all this tangentially related BS and get to the point. >Bitcoin doesn't need to replace banking to attract monetary demand. I never said there's no demand. The question is whether it's monetary demand, whether people holding it as money. *Do you understand what that means?* Yes or no. More on that below. >The combination and the growing network around it gives people reasons to acquire and hold it beyond cheap payments or an immediate banking blockade. You don't seem to be able to argue against that. I'm not arguing against that because it's true, but I don't think you understand what it means. It doesn't have the impact you think it does. Almost any asset with buyers gives people reasons to acquire and hold it: art, collectibles, memecoins. **I never disputed that Bitcoin has demand**. What you've shown is that demand exists, **not that it's monetary demand, and your thesis fails if you can't show a more than immaterial level of monetary demand.** Roughly, the reasons people hold it are: * Expecting the price to rise. That's investment demand. There is demand for all kinds of shit that I'll never touch because it has no intrinsic value. * Hedging debasement or a banking failure. The same JPMorgan report says its volatility and unstable correlations complicate that case. This is super weak btw. If you want to focus on this I'll rip you apart but I'm not going to elaborate for now. * Censorship resistance. Real, **but a small group**. A group that I already said I don't give a fuck about. You'll probably say long-term holders own most of the supply (16.6M+ BTC by one count). That's true, but it doesn't separate the two kinds of holder. Someone sitting on an appreciating asset looks identical on-chain to someone saving in it, and part of that supply is lost coins and early holders who never sold. What would separate them is evidence of holders who stay through drawdowns and non-speculative use growing, and that's the evidence I'm asking for. **Can you provide this??** If your claim is "some people have reasons to hold it," I agree, and so does everyone. That's no argument. If it's monetary dominance, **give me a measure of people treating it as money and I'll engage with it.** Below is some more but really, if you can actually respond competently to what I've said so far I'll fall out of my chair. 1. Your evidence doesn't support what you are trying to say. You describe the appeal as ownership "**separated from an issuer and custodian."** You cite IBIT, **where a custodian holds the coins and the buyer holds a share.** Those buyers want price exposure and get none of the separation. The people who actually hold it apart from a custodian are a very very small group, and that's the niche I've already granted, and said clearly I don't give a fuck about. *Did you see that*? Yes or no. 2. Reasons to hold aren't the same as monetary demand. Investment demand rises and falls with the price. Total assets move with price, so flows are the signal, and $635.6M left Bitcoin ETFs on Oct 22, the biggest day since June. Money gets held through stress. In Fidelity's data gold and bonds beat Bitcoin in the worst stock months, and JPMorgan's strategist noted Bitcoin fell 40%+ from its peak while gold rose by a third. But I don't care about any of that to be frank. 3. The Chainalysis report that you cited was cherry picked by your AI tool. Iran supports you because Bitcoin activity fell 80-90% in the blackouts and recovered. But in the UAE, Bitcoin and tokenised-gold holders both rose when the strikes began. After that, gold holders kept growing while Bitcoin holders shrank, and Chainalysis reads it as people buying Bitcoin when the conflict started and selling when it eased. Bitcoin is still far more popular there, and it's **one market.** But for monetary demand, holding through the calm is the test and the test is failed. Do you see where I'm going with this? Yes or no? 4. "The growing network." For money, **what actually matters is acceptance and stable value.** Bitcoin's measurable non-speculative use is still tiny, and holding isn't acceptance. 5. "You'll have to adapt sooner or later". LOL. No. As I was pointing out to another one of you crypto bros on this sub, in a hypothetical situation where all crypto is removed the financial system, the world economy, everything continues on without a hitch. Nobody needs this shit, but people like you are fooled into thinking that it is the future. You are a victim and you will likely be taken advantage of at some point. Or maybe you are a grifter and you are taking advantage of others. Either way I don't give a fuck, and I never will need to.

fan_of_hakiksexydays

In the last 10 years crypto has been around: \-Blockchain security has slightly improved on major chains like BTC and ETH. \-Major exchanges have improved their security requiring more layers of verification and more indepth internal security. \-Hardware wallets have improved their hardware and software. BUT \-Hardware wallets have also added features that create more vulnerabilities. \-Exchanges still have a lot of the same weak points. \-Hacking is vastly more powerful plus has the help of AI, so the improved exchange security could still fall behind. \-Quantum might still be a threat for blockchain, but not for at least a decade or two.

crimeo

More BTC has been lost by self custody than on exchanges (or about equal, it's like within a couple % equal amounts)

Repulsive-Entrance93

Back in 2017 I lost $1500 in BTC from the Cryptopia hack when bit coin was around $3000 right before it took off.

Lucky-Interview-7689

So you made a few points but it's mostly just semantics and missing the forest for the trees. Deposit insurance isn't universal, there's a cap and it doesn't cover theft. Gold transfers need an operator. Custody and issuance are separate questions. Bitcoin donations to the Anti-Corruption Foundation and Iranians moving BTC to personal wallets are real, documented uses. And Swift and Kinexys are live. But what does this mean? None of that moves the needle in a significant way. 1. It's a niche. The Foundation case and Iran are exactly what I called the unique remainder: people under financial repression. That's real, and it isn't $1.6T of demand. Chainalysis also says IRGC-linked addresses got over half of Iran's crypto value in Q4 2025. This serves the regime. Withdrawals flatlined during the January blackout, so the option needed connectivity the state could cut. And HRF's own report says Russia will push crypto trading through state-regulated intermediaries in July 2027. The state can't stop Bitcoin moving on the network, but it can control the places where people turn Bitcoin into spendable money. It's only a matter of time. 2. Self-custody is the only version of "trustless." Bank customers have recourse for unauthorized transfers. Lose a key and there's nothing, and insurance sold to custodians doesn't help someone holding their own keys. 3. Swift and Kinexys aren't Bitcoin. Swift's ledger is run by Swift **for 17 pilot banks**, **and final settlement still went through existing systems.** Kinexys is JPMorgan deposit tokens, **about 0.06% of the \~$12T a day JPMorgan Payments processes**. Banks chose them because they keep KYC, reversibility and regulation, the opposite of what Bitcoin sells. And it's not like it's catching on fire. I doubt they will roll it out across all locations. 4. Needs aren't demand. Remittances ($905B in 2024) are served mostly by fintechs and dollar stablecoins. BIS Working Paper 1385, published October 19, 2026 (Du, Huang and Scharfstein) says stablecoins don't fix everything that makes cross-border payments slow and expensive. The unbanked need stable value and credit, which volatility and key risk work against. Offshore wealth sits in banks, property and gold. You also concede the cap makes issuance predictable, not purchasing power stable. 5. Nobody needs one asset that solves everything. The dissident needs censorship resistance, the saver needs stability, the remittance sender needs cheap dollars. The bundle only wins for someone who needs every property at once, which is the niche again. And I don't give a fuck about the niche because it is SO SMALL that it can be disregarded. We are talking about the world economy and how the financial system functions to maintain it. And crypto is not important to that.

eW4GJMqscYtbBkw9

What's your point? And what does that have to do with BTC being "inflation proof"?

NUkids11

Well I am certainly in it to make money. Is that verboten? Every dollar of BTC is one less dollar of BRK or PH.

DarrelXero

BTC Sessions YouTube playlist for multisig: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxdf8G0kzsUUqr4oVXRHL1L-iK1q9hCfq&si=7Sn3BUYFfJdp3K_- Be sure that you understand what a descriptor file is and what you need to backup in order to recreate your wallet. A lot of people don't understand that losing a key in the multisig isn't your only peril. Don't trust funds to a multisig until you understand that crucial detail.

hblok

The Binance hack — a roughly $6.3B incident — is not merely a security failure, but a fascinating illustration of the increasingly complicated dialectic between decentralization, institutional trust, and the inherent fragility of custodial financial infrastructure. Quite the learning opportunity, really. 18,270 BTC ($1.47B) moved in a single transaction, followed by the customary peel-chain gymnastics to obfuscate the subsequent movement of funds. TRM and Chainalysis attribute the incident to North Korea's TraderTraitor group with high confidence. Not exactly an ideal customer experience. There are, in my estimation, two particularly salient takeaways. Bitcoin worked precisely as intended. Valid signature, transaction confirmed, no take-backsies. This is not simply a technical feature, but a foundational pillar of the protocol's immutability paradigm. The fact that this becomes somewhat inconvenient when the wrong people have the keys is, presumably, a feature rather than a bug. Meanwhile, "not your keys, not your coins" has received a rather expensive empirical validation. Binance says it will absorb the losses, which is reassuring — but that's not merely financial compensation; it's an exercise in institutional trust, counterparty risk, and the continued solvency of a centralized intermediary. In other words, decentralization, except with customer support. Ultimately, this isn't just about an exchange getting compromised, but about the fundamental contradictions between custodial convenience and the philosophical underpinnings of self-sovereignty. So, the genuinely interesting question is whether $1.47B in BTC can realistically be liquidated while exchanges and OTC desks monitor the peel-chain outputs — or whether blockchain transparency has become a rather inconvenient, yet surprisingly load-bearing, impediment to illicit capital mobility.

CyanTurquoise

Actually a simple counterargument, you should use several wallets, like if you make purchases, just have a few 100s$ worth of BTC in this and there is no danger. Your entire net worth doesn't have to be in a single wallet either. You should have several wallets.

AstralVenture

How are they going to use BTC?

ZubatCountry

Uh-huh and do you understand that 100k is a bigger number than any of those numbers? So your blind faith that it will continue climbing, especially during a time where people do not have disposable income to play the crypto lottery, is misplaced in my opinion Again, even if it does moon, you're *still making significantly less than you would with any other coin* which drives the incentive to buy BTC in the first place even lower Bro, go ahead. Please keep believing. Some of these other bagholders still need a decent off-ramp. Seriously, like when are you guys going to realize it's a gambling project and not a serious alternative currency? The rest of the world has, because it's main use comes from it's rapid spikes making people money, but you cannot build around a currency that flucuates so wildly in such a short amount of time Those are all real, logical, critically thought out points that aren't just "well it happened before" So I'm gonna go with my theory, and you can go with yours. Go ahead and keep believing, like any casino you will eventually give everything you won back because a lot of you don't know when to leave the table

Martineet

Sorry m8, good luck from a bitcoiner out there, all I can say is be strong and we won't remember those loses. Report to the police if you can so at least the address can be targeted in the future, it is lost but maybe you'll be able to trace where those BTC, you'll never know. No expectations but at least it's something. Sorry.

ZubatCountry

They were absolutely made...when BTC was much lower Now it's at 100k To double your money, it would need to go to 200k It has shown *zero* signs of breaking that barrier The incentive to invest is lower than ever. The chances of it mooning again are low, and the returns you would get if it did would be lower than ever It's not blind cynicism, it's math Go ahead and believe what you want, somebody has to be holding the bag at the end of the day

putins_dick

This. And the fact that the first response of the so called community when something bad happens is to blame the victim. It doesn’t make people who have a bad experience come back. I’ve been in BTC since 2013 and have lost my stack a few times only to have to rebuild it. Each time I learned a really hard life lesson and was in a dark place. Having a bunch of autists tell me how stupid I was, at my lowest point didn’t help much at all.

throwaway12three4

When NiceHash got hacked they replaced all hacked BTC over time. it took almost a year for me to get my BTC back. If Binance does make people whole, it might replace BTC, but, it might also replace cash value at the time of the hack. So if the price goes up, you can rebuy the same $$ amount of BTC but will have less BTC in the end.

jjwhitaker

No. Shares are backed by assets from a real world company. In bankruptcy shareholders/investors may be prioritized or the assets/IP/etc are sold and cashed out to those the judge deems worthy. Plus if you lose access to your shares they are still YOUR shares, with a process and precedent to return them, or discover the true owner and process. Crypto is backed by nothing. No assets. No central groups over the system (only specific coins). Sure you can see where that BTC was a year ago in another wallet and trace transactions. But if it's a currency (it's not) then it's fungible and that doesn't matter, and can't be used to return your BTC anyway without compromising 51% of the entire network. At the end of the crash, a stock may have value. Crypto does not.

Feriman22

Everyone keeps asking when altseason starts. Almost nobody asks what would actually prove it started. If alts can't outperform BTC on the way up, what exactly are we waiting for?

stewsters

To be fair, if it was the 2011 hack 10btc was like 180 bucks (at 18 dollars per BTC)

Sherako4

I remember when "send me 1 BTC I'll send 10 BTC back" fake Elon musk or whatever was all over twitter. This was March - Sept 2020.

radio_four

Not if you invest in productive assets - park that cash in index funds, property, stocks, Bonds, etc.   BTC... Just sits there

FudgeAdventurous3875

I lost most of my BTC in the coldcard hack despite doing what was 100% correct at the time. What is correct changes and the manufacturer can fuck it up.

Temporary_Ad_5947

1 BTC = 1 BTC. Mt Gox was 650,000 BTC.

Infamous-Elk-5086

From my perspective, BTC is up

ZubatCountry

Nothing says "stable currency of the future" like a currency where 99% of the people holding it are only doing so on the hope it spikes suddenly and violently If Bitcoin ever became an actual, stable currency it would lose half its value overnight because it's no longer attached to the game cryptobros want to play It was a way to make money for 10-15 years when people didn't understand what a blockchain was and assumed you were smarter than them for knowing about it Now it's chasing shadows Say it went from 100k to 200k Who cares? You could have made more money backing any other coin, because they pretty much all rise when BTC does So at best the ceiling is now doubling your money with BTC, which drives people to other coins, which lowers BTC, which lowers the value of those other coins Like, unless they do Bitcoin 2 and people fall for it again you are never seeing the moons and spikes you did in the 2010's

changgerz

you think you have BTC until you deposit all of it into a scammers wallet

I_am_the_darkness_99

Until there is a very detailed explanation for how NK did this and people know the exploit isn't going to happen again on other exchanges, I think a lot of people are going to be spooked. I have zero affiliation or love for Binance, and don't even use that exchange. But by catching it and covering the funds, they saved the entire crypto market from the sort of thing that happened last time with Luna then Celsius and there was a domino effect of systems crashing that dropped BTC like an extra almost 50% from like 30k down to 16k. I'm actually sad about that because I was planning for a November bottom for crypto where I thought BTC was going under $45k. I still hold hope that a new, lower bottom is coming but I don't think it's going to be near as low as in previous cycles this time. Not sure we'll even get near the bottom from this summer of under $60k.

natekates

“Uptober” was just 4 red weekly Bitcoin candles this year. The jokes just write themselves tbh. I still think somehow BTC $95k before Christmas, -4% today is oddly resilient considering we’re at peak FUD Extreme Fear off the charts

eW4GJMqscYtbBkw9

Inflation =/= expanding monetary supply. Increasing monetary supply *can* be *one* cause of inflation, but it's just one of many. If 1 banana costs $10 and .01 BTC is worth $10 - then 1 banana costs .01 BTC. If the cost of a banana goes up to $11 due to a bad harvest, the cost of a banana does not magically stay at .01 BTC. Inflation.

KateR_H0l1day

Less than one days revenue for Binance, plus lots frozen, so essentially that’s more BTC taken out of circulation!

Mission_Specialist_2

Then a fiat experience hyper inflation, and everyone wonder: why is BTC not viable?

DistributionOk2111

Fully on his side, but what dis rookie doesnt understand is krypto and BTC are two different worlds

zitrone999

It wasn't really the argument. Rather: if you have an affected cold card, move your BTC immediately even if you have to send it to an exchange.

I-always-argue

And yet BTC barely dropped 

b1mm3rl1f3

BTC's muted reaction is so incredibly bullish. Where you headed? Enjoy

RosieDear

Not the point. The "genius" told us we'd all be using this daily....along with BTC, I'm sure. Likely there are 100's of quotes from the genius on this subject. ""Dogecoin is the people's crypto. No highs, no lows, only Doge."

No_Resolution8762

You are assuming people are required to carry their entire wealth in their day-to-day wallet. Which isn't the case. Just like how people today don't carry their entire net worth in their pockets when they go outside, you don't need to carry a wallet with huge sums of BTC in it to transact daily.

WolfBob808

I buy and hold BTC direct in Coinbase, and buy indirectly through MSTR in my Vanguard account. The only wallet I have is in my pocket with a bunch of twenties in it. With stories like this I will stick with these logistics.

BetterFunny6883

Once you update to Electrum 4.8.3: This risk disappears completely. Because 4.8.3 verifies signatures on every input before displaying an unconfirmed transaction, a server can never inject a fake transaction or sneak extra UTXOs into your history tab. How to make it 100% mathematically impossible to spend other UTXOs If you want absolute cryptographic isolation where even a compromised transaction builder cannot sign for your other UTXOs: Update to Electrum 4.8.3+ so fake unconfirmed transactions are blocked immediately. Always check the Inputs count and total Amount Sent before signing: In the signing preview window, check the top summary (Quantia enviada / Amount sent) and the number of inputs (Entradas). If you only intended to spend one 0.1 BTC UTXO, there should only be 1 input listed. Separate Passphrases / Accounts for Deep Cold Storage: Since you use a custom seed/passphrase setup, remember that adding or changing even a single character in your custom seed extension words generates a completely separate cryptographic vault with different private keys. No transaction signed in Wallet A can ever touch UTXOs sitting in Wallet B, because Wallet A literally does not possess the private keys for Wallet B.

ubermensch1001

You realize that in 2022 BTC dropped to 20k? You are literally comparing buying at the absolute peak of 2021 to an accumulation phase price of BTC shortly after the bear market low. This is like comparing a 20k BTC in 2017 to 25-30k BTC in 2023.

BetterFunny6883

this exploit never exposes your private keys, and under normal usage, frozen UTXOs protect your unspent coins—though with one critical technical nuance in how pre-4.8.3 Electrum handled RBF. Best way to prevent this to update to 4.8.3 version and always free remaining funds and address and only send in chunks of 0.05 or 0.1 BTC

BetterFunny6883

​Pro-Tip for your own Electrum transfers (Coin Control) When moving large balances in the future, beyond splitting into chunks (e.g., 4 transactions of 0.1 BTC), use Electrum's Coins tab (View -> Show Coins). You can right-click specific UTXOs and select Spend (or Freeze the rest of your UTXOs). If an exploit or human error ever happens during a transaction, frozen UTXOs cannot be touched or signed by Electrum under any circumstances.

Awkward-Green-1653

Yep, handle BTC in your own hands is still too unsafe for the mainstream. But this is why we are still early. Maybe 5 years maybe 10 but the time will come where you can easily storage your BTC without any risk of gettong hacked or doing dump shit and lost it all. I wish you the best for your Future, Bitcoin is not the problem, it's the way of storage thats not easy enough at the moment

Rickard403

That much BTC and ETH getting dumped on the market could do some damage. Probably not serious damage by itself, but additional fall out could occur from others selling out of fear, longs being liquidated, etc.

Febos

Crypto is less usefully than it was 10 years ago. We went backward. If I remember right I could not even buy ledger wallet few years ago with BTC anymore. Crypto usecase really just become a speculation.

PheelGoodInc

Any significant amount of BTC in self custody should be multi sig. Companies like Unchained Capital also make this really easy.

AdEuphoric5133

That scam pattern is really one of the most disgusting... If am so sorry for your loss OP. I hope there are joyful things in your life that will allow you to move on. I am surprised that you tried to move almost all of your savings in one transaction? Reuniting all UTXOs of over 10 years in one single transaction is unadvised, as you indicate to the network that they all share the same owner. By sending the content of your hot wallet to the cold wallet by smaller batch, not only you avoid giving away unnecessary informations to the world, but the scam would also have made you lost less money. That being said, it does not invalidate the moral of your story. The amount of care that someone has to use when manipulating BTC is really a hindrance to the adoption of bitcoin as a store of value. I have an amount of btc similar to yours on a bitcoin core cold wallet, and the general bearish sentiment of these past months due to the Coldcard hack, then the Ledger hack, and then more recently the Binance hack is really bugging me. And now your sad story is again reminding that the very strength of bitcoin, its decentralization, is also its biggest weakness: people using bitcoin have no right to make a mistake.

timelock1

So sorry to hear this. Hind site is 20/20 yes at my end...but one way to circumvent this is to copy your initial unbroadcast TX and then close electrum, goto to mempool or any other website that allowes you to broadcast and broadcast it there. You can even decode it and see what addresses your BTC is going to before you broadcast

silentsandwich

I sold in 2021 and never looked back. I never tell anyone in real life that I had anything to do with crypto and the current crowd who are into it (grifters, crypto bros) are nothing like the people who were into it in 2012 (nerds and druggies) when I first got BTC. I met a random Russian woman this year at a conference who told me she was a "bitcoin founder" and I immediately ended the conversation, lol. It's such a good tell that someone is completely full of shit now.

12161986

Is the dip still coming from the Binnance crypto attack? I swapped my BTC yesterday so I kind of expect BTC to just go up from here instead of dipping just based on the universe and luck.

Pretend_Education_86

but but what about all that BTC I used to buy Pizzas and things off silkroad. Pfft.

TrueBirch

I have to wonder what would happen if the hackers took their blacklisted BTC and just started sending it to random active wallets. Like one grand at a time. They could gum up the works for a lot of people.

Sufficient_Mud_3179

many are staying BTC is not a asset you can get a loan against, if so the loan is backed by your other assets in your account ?

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Post is by: chainglance_cm and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1xjitir/tether_made_112m_last_week_more_than_the_next_9/ Was scrolling DefiLlama’s revenue rankings and Tether is at $112M for the past 7 days. The next 9 combined (Circle, Canton, Polymarket, Hyperliquid, Pump, etc.) are around $101M. Didn’t expect a coin built to sit at $1 to be this far ahead. Here are a few reasons why I think this is the case: * You give Tether $1, you get 1 USDT. They park the dollar mostly in T-bills and keep the interest. Holders get nothing. * The math checks out. $112M/week is \~$5.8B/year. At \~4.1% T-bill yields that’s \~$140B earning interest out of \~$181B USDT. The rest sits in gold, BTC and loans. * Circle (#2) gives a big cut of its reserve income to Coinbase. Tether doesn’t share with anyone. * No token emissions, no liquidity incentives, no yield paid out. Revenue is basically profit. * USDT is the default dollar on most exchanges and in weak-currency countries, so demand doesn’t need much marketing. In 2020-21 with near-zero rates, this same model made a fraction of this. So it seems like it’s mostly a rates trade. Is that all it is, or am I missing something about Tether specifically? And with the Fed now leaning toward hiking again, how much of this survives when rates eventually drop? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

radio_four

Real talk though... One mistake and it's all gone.  AI-assisted hacks are happening more frequently (just ask Binance).   Doing everything 'right' means you can't use BTC as money for small purchases.... Which is 99.99% of daily economic activity. Why is Bitcoin superior to a currency that is insured, has institutional support/infrastructure behind it, and can actually be recovered if it's stolen? Seriously, just this year how much BTC was stolen?  

Sufficient_Mud_3179

do you make interest payments on the 5% a year ? How does this work ? Lets say someone had 1 BTC, 10-20% is $8K to 16K loan or about $800 a year in interest

Foreign_Lobster_875

Honestly true. As more Btc are in the hands of scammers pumpers and thieves they can control the price better with fake trades. Expect BTC to skyrocket as we near 100% ownership by pedofiles and the worst of humanity

I-always-argue

Eh, it's only a small fraction of my total and BTC is already recovering 

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Post is by: RelevantSecurity399 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1xjiaky/was_about_to_put_60k_into_bitcoin_then_i_saw_this/ I was planning to put around $60k into Bitcoin. Been thinking about it for a while and was finally getting ready to buy. then I come across a claim attributed to hardware wallet maker OneKey saying BlackRock’s IBIT could be the next target for North Korean hackers. Really wasn’t what I wanted to read right before buying.Can that actually happen? I know buying BTC directly is different from buying an ETF, but someone still holds the Bitcoin behind that fund. Could it get stolen if their custodian was compromised?Trying to understand if there’s anything specific behind this claim or if people are just naming the next big target. Anyone got more context? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

chainglance_cm

For stables, sure. It’s basically a normal debit card with a bit of extra spread. With BTC or ETH I’d skip it. In a lot of countries every swipe counts as selling crypto, so a month of groceries turns into 40 tiny capital gains events to deal with at tax time. Some cards also hide a 1-2% conversion spread on top of the ATM fees. Cashback is the only real reason to use one, and that’s usually paid in the card’s own token, so it’s worth whatever that token decides to do.

thanosied

There are times when you don't want to move your BTC. This is one of those times. Everything has been getting hacked, Bitcoin just went through a contentious hard fork, we have a huge election coming up and Europe is burning down. The best time to move Bitcoin around is when everything is nice and quiet unless you have some personal emergency and need the funds ASAP

Cryptoxic93

BTC will be screwed. They lack the governance needed to be ready in time. Ethereum and other chains will pivot as needed. 

General_Theo_Magath

Why do you keep bringing up Reddit account age? I’ve also made 6 figures trading it, but the difference is I’m aware the luck of being an early adopter.  Who the fuck cares about the yearly? Makes me doubt your claims cause anyone who’s actually made money on BTC wouldn’t spout the frankly retardation you have. Your thesis is since we dropped last March we will drop again this March??? OK lmao. Anyways I saved my comment and I’ve saved no others so in March when we haven’t hit 62k you can look back and recognize you were in fact an idiot and that some guy with a week old Reddit account was more aware than you were.