BTC

Academic_Attorney996

Today, Saylor accumulates 17,994 BTC while Apple and Amazon sitting on sideline chewing their popcorn...haha. Saylor just bitchslap Apple and Amazon's faces..lol

Relative_Roof5361

The trick isnt that the loan is more profitable — it’s that selling has a hidden cost some people ignore: taxes. Depending on where you live, you’re handing 20-30% of your gains to the government the moment you sell. So to actually pocket $10k you need to sell way more than $10k worth of BTC. With a loan you’re paying interest, yeah, but if your long-term bet on BTC is right, those interest payments are nothing compared to the gains you would’ve killed by selling. And your position keeps compounding. That said, the risk is very real — if BTC dumps hard enough you get liquidated and that’s a much worse outcome than just selling. So it really only makes sense if you genuinely believe in BTC long term, not as a way to “win” short term.

Revolutionary-Cup78

ETH doesn't have the best tokenomics for holding, bitcoin does. If you don't have intention of using ETH or reselling mid term, there is little reason for getting it instead of BTC

PaulTheIV

ETH is the superior product. Bitcoin is like gold. Everyone likes it because everyone likes it. But it has no actual function, really. Ethereum is like oil. Less shiny than gold, but far more important and it would be far better to own a lot of it But Bitcoin believers and goldbugs don't like this statement, so it gets downvoted. Ethereum number goes up because of function and new innovation BTC number goes up because goldbugs are getting dumped on by the whales and governmental powers that be. It is purely greater fools theory.

LionDependent9194

Must we forget BTC to 1Milli?????

cogit2

This is the right answer. If the cost of production dictated price, pumpers wouldn't exist, they'd simply be lobbyists to make BTC more expensive to mine.

Ganonstonk

They also have their preferred instruments, the main one being STRC. The intent behind STRC is that it pays 11.5% interest, pegged to $100 so you skip the volatility of BTC while still being exposed. Some people would be happy to get 11% yearly and not worry about BTC dropping 50%. This way investors benefit from stability, where MSTR takes the money to buy BTC. Obviously, this is not dilutive, so the MSTR price per share increases. But Yes, you'd be right - they're betting on the idea that BTC will increase on average at greater than 11% per year. People who buy STRC are also assuming that BTC will succeed long term, otherwise yes, they won't be able to issue more to pay debts. Imagine if this was an Iranian company doing this - for example taking $100 in Iranian Rials, buying btc, then giving the investors 10% return. Then 6 months later their currency collapses (which it did). Now the company had "$100" in debt but that 100 dollars is worth a fraction of what it once was. So their $100 in debt is now basically non-existent because the currency is worthless. This is an extreme example, but highlights the same principles at play. Take money, provide stable returns, and pocket the difference as the currency loses value while you buy a harder asset that appreciates long term, ignoring short term volatility.

TheBigLR901

Using it to buy BTC. Banks love to hear that shit

kwijibokwijibo

Why would they have to go to the banks? That's retail investor thinking. That's what people do Companies have multiple ways to refinance which are more customisable for their needs - issuing equity, debt, or a whole range of other instruments in between There's nothing wrong with how MSTR is refinancing. The only weird thing is their BTC treasury model. But you think institutions like Allianz, a global insurance company, would buy $750mn of MSTR convertible notes if they were a Ponzi scheme? Do you think you, random redditor, really know better than some of the world's largest financial institutions? Pretty arrogant if so

nugymmer

So what? It's Bitcoin. The reputation is the NUMBER ONE priority. You fuck with the protocol and lock old users out, and deprive them of their coins, then guess what will happen? BTC might become a dinosaur, dead and long forgotten.

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Post is by: Ok-Tumbleweed-2416 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1rpg04w/crypto/ BTC bounced 20% and everyone celebrated while $ETH quietly sits on the line that matters most Ethereum is at $1,987 testing an ascending trendline that defined every major bottom since 2019. Support held in 2020 and twice after the 2022 crash. Each bounce launched a rally. This is the fifth test. The problem is momentum. ETH underperformed Bitcoin all cycle, arriving at support weaker than ever. One analyst said ETH does not get a second chance here. If it holds, alt rotation begins. If it breaks, long-term bullish structure is gone. Do historical trendlines still matter when ETH lost its narrative to Solana and L2s? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

nugymmer

The aggressive approach will likely alienate some old BTC users, and then they'll never want anything to do with crypto again. You don't want that. Allow people to access old coins. The only ones who are concerned about inaccessible addresses becoming accessible again is down to greed. They want their BTC to be highly valued, and the only way to do that is to lock out old users by effectively destroying what they own. Like IOTA, and many other crypto coins, BTC is set to become another coin that forces users to transition. This is bad news for crypto, mark my words.

aaj094

If you tried to buy a billion worth of BTC on an exchange order book, you'd probably pay much more than what Saylor got through otc.

ReMeDyIII

I use AI's a lot for work, gaming (mostly game mods that support them, like Rimworld), and conversational AI's on front-ends like SillyTavern on a near daily basis. Having said that, I would never want to trust an AI with my money. I don't care if I'm leaving money on the table either; I'd rather just park it into a steady APY coin that compounds over time, or just throw it into BTC or something.

ChanceCash6708

On wich data do you set a buy order now on BTC???

AriesThef0x

Seems like game theory at this point. If their cost per coin is and average of 75k per coin at 738k coins, imagine how much in purchasing power it would really take to move that cost average in either direction. Seems to me if he is able to survive the next bear market or two he is poised to have perhaps the most asset rich company of all time through the 21rst century. Assuming BTC does what we expect it to and continue to grow and adapt.

Odd_Bar9513

I just bought another 0.1 BTC (plus some sats) right today.✊🏽

PsyOmega

> institutions never sell So the problem here is, institutions *can't* sell. Not at any rate that matters anyway. If they dump hard, they crash the market, and the value of the remaining holdings they have. On top of that, holding BTC is less a finance incentive and more of a power incentive. The largest holders of BTC will be tomorrows world powers. Nobody ever parts with power.

angelwolf71885

2140 not 2040 more then a century until the last BTC is mined

Azatis-

because he and few others will have more than 10-20% of total BTC in existence

bitski44

Great question and honestly, you're not wrong that lump sum beats DCA in a bull market in hindsight. The data backs that up. But here's the thing: nobody knows they're in a bull market until it's already happened. What I actually do is use the Bitcoin Power Law to guide when to be aggressive and when to stack cash. Right now BTC is \~47% below the Power Law fair value line. That's a screaming signal to ramp up buys, not just DCA your usual $100, but smash buy heavier. Then when price rips 30%+ above the fair value line? That's when I ease off Bitcoin buys and start stacking cash instead, building dry powder for the next time it dips below. So it's not pure DCA and it's not lump sum timing, it's DCA with conviction sizing based on where we are on the Power Law model. Below fair value = buy aggressively. Above fair value = stack cash for the next opportunity. The Power Law has held for 15+ years of Bitcoin data. It gives you a framework so you're not just blindly buying green candles every Monday or sitting on the sideline trying to catch the perfect dip. If you want to see where BTC sits on the Power Law right now, there is a free tool for exactly this: neversellyourbitcoin.com. It shows the current price vs. fair value and helps you decide when to stack sats vs. stack cash.

Basic_Cod4200

Discordo.  O BTC pode ser destruído da noite para o dia bastando que algum país alcance a tecnologia necessária. Computadores quânticos estão nesse momento em desenvolvimento e serão capazes de quebrar qualquer tipo de criptografia e sistema de segurança. Não é uma questão de SE mas sim QUANDO.  E quando acontecer, vai haver uma fuga de liquidez da BTC e das altcoins como nunca antes, com inúmeras exchanges quebrando e bloqueando checkouts.  Os maiores patrocinadores de liquidez do BTC hoje não são pessoas comuns, mas sim empresas de especulação, grupos de investimento, bancos e entidades governamentais. O BTC foi institucionalizado e você não entendeu o que isso significa, significa que o mercado financeiro-fiduciário já absorveu o BTC e o controla através de especulação.  Sem contar que com a volatilidade alta, o BTC é inútil como moeda de negociação, negociar exige o mínimo de estabilidade de valor, e será cada vez mais caro manter o ecossistema eficiente em termos de energia.  E sim, é uma pirâmide, mesmo que não tenha sido essa a intenção.  E não, não é confiável, o "golpe de sorte" da BTC foi a adoção repentina e talvez estratégica por parte das elites financeiras e criminosas do Ocidente.  Mas uma hora, vai a zero, seja porque alguém quebrou e hackeou esse cofre dos tolos, seja porque se tornou economicamente inviável e caro de se manter em contextos de crise sistêmica.  Ouro e terras continuam sendo os melhores investimentos de médio e longo prazo e que sempre irão valorizar, com risco praticamente zero. 

0xZennite

The halving schedule really is one of the most elegant pieces of monetary design ever created. 114 years for the last million BTC puts into perspective just how front-loaded the distribution was — and why early adoption mattered so much. It's also a good reminder that scarcity is already baked in

Complete_Oven_9651

102 BTC is literally noise compared to $1.8B in weekly inflows. Institutional demand is absorbing these small dumps like it’s nothing.

smafiler

My 2027 self is already yelling at my current self for not buying more BTC right now. To the moon

TheRadishBros

Test it yourself— if you ask an AI about the kind of portfolio it would recommend to maximise growth and diversification over the next 30 years, they will almost certainly include BTC as part of that portfolio. They do when I asked, anyway.

Wikilicious

You can run BTC inside ETH… freeing up your solar panels to power your home instead of making a single transaction.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Empery Digital sold 102 BTC for $7.3 million to fund share buybacks amid pressure from activist shareholders ATG Capital and Tice P. Brown. This move contrasts with broader corporate treasury trends, which saw $1.28 billion in net Bitcoin inflows during the week, led by Strategy's acquisition of 17,994 BTC. Empery’s decision to sell Bitcoin reflects internal tensions, with competing director nominations for its 2026 annual meeting. The company still holds 3,562 BTC, allowing flexibility for future strategies. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

dj_destroyer

Which is good they're not loaning it out. Perhaps when BTC matures or they obtain more, they can start thinking about things like that but I almost guarantee Strategy is lining up to be the world's first Bitcoin bank.

Calm-Professional103

BTC and ETH are two different concepts. If you’re into DeFi, ETH is King. I hold both for different reasons.  Also, if BTC price action is dampening, which coin is likely to be the « new BTC »?

UC_DiscExchange

Their premium is the inclusion of fees for OTC trade. Coinbase isn't just going to facilitate 10's of thousands of BTC for nothing. They don't necessarily have to, but they do include fees in their average purchase price.

piggleii

Saylor somehow managed to accumulate over a billion worth of BTC at over 70k despite price spending most of its time in the 60s.

Flamboiant_Canadian

Tbh, there's nothing superior about either of them. BTC is slow and so is Ethereum. They were revolutionary like a decade ago, but neither of them have really advanced that much since then. I haven't even heard of any new groundbreaking cryptography this cycle? It's just buying the same old shit and expecting it to just go up in value because it always did?  Anything that is doing anything, isn't worth fuck all. 

AriesThef0x

No, here’s why. I was very happy to buy @35k 5-3 years ago. For me that time has passed, I want to see the price stay nice and resilient over the bear market here, I’m hoping no lower than 50k. As we are getting lower relative highs, I want to see higher relative lows. One of the reasons I store my money in BTC is because after a certain period, I want to see that impressive return % of previous cycles calcified underneath the cycles bottom. If you’re buying consistently over the bear market, you’ll be getting in on the relative lows. But also you’ll be accumulating a nice stack. At a certain point, I don’t want to see the entirety of my holdings worth -75% just so I can get more sats per $ on my next purchase. As my time in the market increases, I want to see past purchases value safeguarded.

PrettyOwl7768

also add this \--- "isn't that unfair? rich people buy more machines and earn more?"   yes. same as bitcoin — more money, more ASICs, more BTC. there's no system where capital doesn't help. the question is what the capital buys.   bitcoin: capital buys machines that guess random numbers. the network gets nothing from the work. more miners don't make bitcoin faster. here: capital buys machines that relay, cache, and store for everyone. more machines = faster network, more redundancy, more storage. your greed makes the network better for everybody. there's no block reward. no mining. no lottery. the release schedule splits equally between every participating machine on the network. you don't earn by winning — you earn by showing up. one machine in your bedroom earns the same as one machine in a datacenter. buy 10,000 machines? you earn 10,000 shares — but you're also running 10,000 relay nodes that everyone benefits from. "so what stops someone spinning up 10,000 VMs instead of buying 10,000 machines?" the kernel runs ring 0 — it IS the operating system. it can detect virtualization (hardware flags, timing, direct device access). VMs get nothing. you need real bare metal. and even if you could fake it, each node still has to actually do the work — relay traffic, cache data, serve queries. 10,000 VMs on one box share one NIC and one disk. you can set how much of your machine's resources go to the network. the ceiling is your actual hardware. fake 10,000 identities on one machine and each one has 1/10,000th the resources — peers stop routing to nodes that can't keep up. the attack costs real hardware either way. participation is the only thing that matters.

PrettyOwl7768

This might be better framing people often say bitcoin is two things the protocol, then BTC the token; bitcoin the protocol runs atop the internet even if your ham that signal is going to end up in a tcp/ip packet more or less what happens if the internet becomes just a stream (udp) that can fix errors? at the same time the value side (BTC) is just built into the packet header. now say there is a magic way to have this new protocol being 'living' itself for a lack of better words. so the vast majority of things bitcoin needs to solve is easy as a central data base; and since its 'living' it doesn't change unless it wants to change, aka immutably. the data is shared between all users every where as cryptographic hash and is backed up millions of times over between every one; no one person has all data, data is spread out in an algo that always allows recreation; this combines nodes and miners into one; the security is PoW, you have to allocate a small part of your machine to keep the network alive not by random number guessing but by just relaying and caching messages; this all stored in memory, so you shut your device down all data is lost, turn it on new data is propagated. the internet was invented in early 1800 - aka the telegraph: it discovered how to transfer INFORMATION at great distances nearly instantaneously bitcoin was invented in 2008: it discovered how to transfer VALUE at great distances nearly instantaneously Now say these two things just become ONE thing That thing would have to be an "immaculate conception" moment... so the question is what is the design of that? lots of metaphor's i know... try explaining bitcoin to somebody who never heard of bitcoin

cubeeless

BTC to $400k!

Turbulent-Ask-3302

SQUARE ROOT (ln(ETH x (1+yield)) - ln(BTC/32)) Do the math. It will set you free. ETH is cheap relative to BTC right now. Buy it up.

Previous-Piano-6108

Yes, we can all currently time the market. BTC is down 50% from the ATH, easy! Will it drop lower? Maybe! Still got a great price

pfftlolbrolollmao

Anything can happen, sure. But one thing that can't happen is that someone can go back in time and invent a crypto currency before BTC. BTCs biggest draw is the security it has. It has never been hacked, and it has been tried and tested. BTC isn't in the lead because it's better. It's in the lead because it was first. And when it comes to people and money, they want security over anything else. The best case for security is time. Unless people find a way to hack BTC, it will be on top. The lay person will never care about the intricate differences of a coin. The lay person doesn't have a clue how the regular economy works, never mind crypto. It's us, the nerds of crypto that care about how fast it is. Or how anonymous it is or whatever. imo, the chances of another coin beating crypto is slim to none. In another 20-30 years, most other cryptos will cease to exist, and we'll be left with BTC. It's the safest.

BainTrain55

BTC 200 WMA is around 58k. It has never fallen more than a couple percent at most below its line. So 45k seems incredibly unlikely.

Yeagerist15

Sure I agree that you usually will have a turnaround in 2-3 years, but you will also be bag holding for 2-3 years. I just gave you way more than 50 sample dates that would show you multiple years of being underwater. Current real life data points that aren’t 10+ years old. early bitcoin prices are not really relevant to this data. Would be akin to saying lump sum into Apple since it was smart to lump sum into apple in 1990. Those gains aren’t relevant Also the difference for stocks is, they aren’t typically dropping 50% quickly like Bitcoin. 20-50% flash drawdowns are expected in Bitcoin. Not really the case with your S&P 500. I mean we had a “crash” last year with the tariffs. Went from $609 to $555 over the course of a month (Feb to March). The day we had the tariffs we crashed to $500. That’s about 10%. About 17% from the overall peak. And then not even 3 months later was once again higher than $609.  You could have lumped summed at the peak and in 4 months been fine.  That doesn’t happen with Bitcoin. Sans anyone who bought a few weeks ago at sub 68, if you bought anytime between Oct 24, and now, you’d be in the red.  Lump sum lost. Don’t get me wrong I “lump” sum when we drop a lot. But I also fully expect that lump sum to lose value in the short term. DCA lets you capitalize on the volatility of BTC so you don’t blow your load and are left deeply bag holding for years  Obviously the correct choice is to lump sum and DCA heavy when we are in times like now and to adjust as price adjusts. I splurged at 63500. I still DCA, I’ll probably splurge a few more times under 70k. Won’t splurge at 120k. TIL 2030 I’ll splurge at 120k in that cycle 

pfftlolbrolollmao

Ethereum was hacked in 2016. The people that run ethereum changed the code to block the hack (the right thing to do). They can alter their code whenever they want. Meaning it has a security risk that BTC doesn't, the ability if humans to change and alter it. Humans are corruptible and cannot be trusted. Also it switched from being proof of stake to proof of work and when the switch happened the market didn't quiver. Made me think that it's propped up by people hoping to be rich rather than people actually believing in what it does.

FishermanWaste1268

He has all BTC Ross Ulbricht gave him for his pardon to wash.

will_get_downvoted7

I tried UEX US a few months ago mainly for BTC deposits and withdrawals. The deposit process was straightforward and confirmations worked like normal. Withdrawals also went through without issues, although the network fee was a bit higher than I expected. Overall the platform worked fine for basic Bitcoin transactions.

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Post is by: Ok_Security_1684 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/SaaS/comments/1rp98qm/built_a_free_realtime_crypto_terminal_after/ Hey everyone, I'll keep it honest: I built this partly out of frustration. I was trading Binance Futures and realized I was paying for 3-4 different platforms just to see the data I needed in one place. Coinglass for liquidation maps, HyBlock for order flow, LunarCrush for sentiment, Glassnode for on-chain... it adds up to $100-150/month easily, and half the time the UX is terrible. So I spent the last year building **CryptOn Forecast,** starting as a personal tool, ending up as something I figured I'd share. **What's free (no signup, no credit card):** * Live liquidation heatmap * Order book depth * CVD chart (Spot + Futures) * On-chain analytics (MVRV, SOPR, NVT, Realized Price) * Whale tracker * ETF institutional flows * Exchange netflow * Options flow (Put/Call ratio, max pain) * Volume spike scanner * Social sentiment * Correlation matrix * BTC rainbow chart + halving cycle tracker * A Bloomberg-terminal-style dashboard where you can pin any 6 panels Basically what I was paying for across multiple subscriptions, combined and free. **The paid part** is an AI trading bot that connects to your Binance Futures account via API (read + trade permissions only, no withdrawal access ever). It's non-custodial, your funds never leave your wallet. Pricing is performance-based, no monthly subscription. The bot has been live since 2022. 122+ days of tracked performance, $7M+ in trading volume. I know "98% win rate" sounds like a red flag and I get it so I show every single trade on the site, open and closed, in real time. You can verify on your own Binance account. **What I'm genuinely looking for feedback on:** * Does the free terminal actually feel useful or is it just noise? * Is the non-custodial angle convincing or does it still feel sketchy? * What would make you actually trust a bot enough to try it? Site is [cryptontradebot.com](http://cryptontradebot.com), be as harsh as you want, that's why I'm here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

YUSoOffended

I am basically in the same headspace: I am not selling into fear, my BTC/ETH horizon is 10+ years, so the day-to-day drawdown is just noise. What keeps me sane is having a system: core stays core, although I'm currently stacking dry powder in USDC ready for real capitulation. I've parked my bags on Nexo and let them earn while I wait (BTC, ETH, SOL, some stables), then I can rotate that yield and the stables into buys when the market offers stupid prices.

dj_destroyer

He's become the BTC digital bank

dj_destroyer

Have you never heard him speak? For the last 5-10 years, he's made it quite clear there's no point in selling BTC for something else. He believes Bitcoin is the apex property, better than property or gold or stocks or anything. He makes very rational and articulate arguments as to why. Could that change? Sure, but a lot of things could happen. No sense in declaring all the what ifs... what if the world got hit by an asteroid, what if we all nuke ourselves, what if the USD collapses tomorrow and brings the stock market with it, etc. etc. etc.

Azatis-

Will be worth as much as he wants since he will be able to manipulate the whole crypto market at will with just few BTC either buy or sell

sp00geMcDuck

The rich will stay rich amd you will support their endeavors through higher power bills because BTC is so power hungry

ChuCHuPALX

What's the BTC address we can toss some gas into for your kids?

ieatballoonknot

Your definition of dilution is a made up, fake metric of BTC per share. Have a nice day.

__redruM

Yes, and I don’t doubt BTC will be back at 120k at some point before 2030. It’s just that BTC isn’t the hedge it was sold as. In these times of uncertainty, BTC should be well up. But it’s acting more like a tech stock than digital gold.

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

BTC mass adoption already started with the ETFs. Fastest growing ETF ever, just sayin.

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

BTC always comes back to test the old ATH. So all these "Its at the same price as 5 years ago" posts dont hold any weight. If you like crypto and want to invest for long term then now is not the time to leave, its the right time to accumulate. Between now and Q4.

Azatis-

About what mini winter he is talking about ? All alts are in winter over a year now despite BTC doing okish or not.

Impossible-Weight852

This is solely based on the belief that the future returns of BTC will be greater than the borrowing costs. Most are projecting past performance into the future which is a grave mistake as those who are paying attention will realize the returns have been declining steadily over time. Safest option is to sell whatever you need to cover your cash needs.

Decentralization-God

I thought he does not care much about buy price as he is buying at every price level … and wants BTC price go up … to attract greater fools lol 🤣

ieatballoonknot

lol my guy you own a smaller % of the company every time they sell shares and theyre increasing their debt. Have fun with that “BTC per share” metric used to scam retail.

Blueberry_Dependent

Man, why people think the money in the bank are yours. Those money belong to the bank. I don't know how people don't understand that. Maybe that's why people think BTC is a scam and if they knew that they don't own their money then they would have at least put 20% of their savings in BTC

DankMemesNQuickNuts

More people and most importantly more financial institutions are involved in this trade for purely speculative reasons and the thing people speculate most on in Crypto is BTC Its not about the product, it has everything to do with adoption and financial speculation. These are speculative assests and nothing more, the quality of the project is irrelevant when people aren't concerned with what the product does

ferocious_swain

Huh? Countries and states and Investment firms are centralizing BTC more every day. The fact that coin does absolutely nothing means it could be bought and forgetten about all other L1 have utility. Also btc is not scarce at all. I have never had a problem finding it?

GoodIntroduction6344

You're an idiot. In economics, when we talk about ceilings and floors, we're talking about a command economy where prices commanded or set. BTC is traded on the open market. There is no ceiling or floor. It's simply \*price driven by the flux of supply vs. demand. There are no ceilings. It can go to the moon. There are no floors. It can crash to zero. The cost of producing BTC is not an economic floor. Price of BTC isn't determined by cost of production for an extremely elastic product. BTC is valuable if and only if investors deem it valuable. The cost of mining BTC is the cost of mining BTC. That's it. At any given time, in any given place, there either exists an acceptable ROI or breakeven point, or not. It's either worth it or not. If it makes a profit, they keep mining. If it doesn't, they stop. In early 2026, it cost miners $1,320 in electricity costs to mine one BTC in Iran. Mine or not? Mine. Meanwhile, it cost miners $306,550 to mine one BTC in Italy, $227,000 in Austria, and $236,000 in Switzerland. Mine or not? Not. The graph you have is charting long term support levels. It does not represent average BTC mining costs. You need to stfu and focus on flipping burgers, fucktard.

jclaslie

Looks like Bitmex is bullish BTC and AI agents through Circle but the war situation is making macro worse so I really have no clue where we could go next. That’s why I just DCA and chill.

-Squidster-

If you look over on r/CryptoCollectibles - there are a lot of examples of BTC attached to items, even some art pieces. However most hold the private key on the item, so you can access the SATs eventually if you want to. Iirc, there was a project that has a similar concept, except when you bought their item, they would actually sent the SATs to Satoshi’s wallet.

shelby_xx88xx

Or exchange failure Lost a big chunk of BTC with a loan on Celsius…🤮🤮🤮🤮

Ok_Golf_6467

Yep. I've been stacking ETH since 2022 when I should of just been stacking BTC. Lesson learned.

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

"More or less". March 2021 BTC was at 61k, now its at 68k.

the_superbatman

I've pondered over this for a while. The answer is simple, it's simplicity. Price maturity is driven by mass adoption, adoption here is institutional investors. No institutional investors go through the lengthy study of understanding ETH, complex compared to BTC, therefore money goes to BTC. Also BTC valuation is much easier,in theory, as gold than a decentralised smart chain leading blockchain.

CuriousGeorge22_02

I agree. RSI looking like it is bottoming out and a lot of other indicators show a very good RR right now. I'm scaling in slowly. It's never a bad time to buy BTC anyway

Azatis-

Ok fair enough. But why do you think Saylor stacking BTC for ?

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

If BTC is digital gold, then ETH is digital silver. BTC is scarce, ETH isnt. There is no supply cap on ETH, it has dynamic supply. So you see there are fundamental differences between BTC and ETH. BTC has cemented itself in the financial world already while ETH still needs to proof that it can be the backbone of Web3. BTC is a safer bet with smaller potantial gains, while ETH is riskier with more upside potential. Last cycle it underperformed severely (ETH) and it still needs to proof a lot. At the end it comes down to your risk appetite and if you buy into ETHs bullcase (Backbone of Web3). If you want a safe bet I would suggest BTC, if you got more risk appetite I would suggest ETH.

-Ophidian-

Right, I'm trying to predict the future a bit here which may be a loser's game. But if the only thing holding BTC higher than ETH is "I was first" and having higher backing rates, once BTC finally gets fuller adoption/confidence and institutions are more comfortable with crypto in general, won't ETH just step on BTC's head to claim first place?

-Ophidian-

BTC has had better price improvement over that time period than ETH, but BTC is the poster child. I guess what I'm saying is the main thing holding back large scale ETH adoption is large scale BTC adoption. But when large scale BTC adoption occurs, institutions are going to look at ETH and see that it just does what BTC does but better. Won't BTC then get somewhat left by the side of the road?

Pathbauer1987

BTC doesn't hold value. It is priced. And it will be that way until it gets real life use. Until then, it's price will depend on the mood of speculators.

HSuke

> $70,946 per BTC BTC price peaked at $69.3k this weekend. The price wasn't this high since last Wednesday. How is Saylor getting such bad prices?

Local-Builder-4698

Because Bitcoin has cap of 21mln. Bitcoin doesn't have owner and it is the most important thing in this whole discussion. You don't know the future of Ethereum, maybe vitalik will change it, maybe he won't, while bitcoin is always Bitcoin. I personally go 80% BTC 10% Ethereum 10% Solana. I like the idea of Ethereum but is it the best risk to reward investment? I highly doubt it

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

BTC is more or less at same price too, so I wouldnt count this as a particular convincing argument.

AidenTai

Bitcoin has the most trust, backing and confidence. That probably matters the most when it comes to a currency (the same reason why gold is used as a currency and not some other equally rare metal or metal with superior chemical properties). Monero is the best as a currency for payments that respect privacy. That leaves Ethereum with the 'rest', which is other tokens, smart contracts, etc. That matters more when the flexibility of the technology matters, but right now the volume of transactions isn't enough to push it beyond the growth rate of BTC and XMR. In the future? Who knows. But right now people value trust and anonymity more than anything else (not at the same time, some value trust and growth, others value privacy, so each has its own clientelle).

watch-nerd

They work better as a pair. BTC has more liquidity, but ETH has more volatility, so levered ETH works better as a hedge to BTC than BTC itself. And ETH has staking, so you can go delta neutral on it if you want and still earn real (not nominal) yield.

Forsaken-Welcome-709

The statement "should I borrow $ to buy Bitcoin" is missing details that can be used to make an informed decision. Should I borrow $ at 0% rate for 10 years to buy Bitcoin with a minimum payment that is well below what I could afford? -- probably yes honestly. Most people think credit cards with massive interest. They think minimum payments that are hard to keep up with. Or maybe they think loans that have a 1 year term and you don't have the cash to pay it off, so you're going to sell the BTC to settle it and you hope it is a higher value in the future. Loans are not black and white, and for most cases, loans are bad. But if the terms are favourable, it can give you a benefit. A lot of people will mention how the loan APR (cost) is lower than the CAGR (appreciation) and on top of that, the providers allow you to roll over easily. The big questions are: 1. Is the BTC safe in their custody? (many will say no) 2. Is the company going to last as long as you want to keep rolling over for this to all be worth it in the end? So I get it, it is not a black and white, yes or no, and for those who are not risk takers, the answer is plain no. And for giving advice, the answer is no. No one wants to give advice to take risks. But for some, they don't rate the risks as high as you, and they see the benefits more clearly too.

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0xZennite

BTC resilience at these levels makes sense when you factor in the ETF inflows acting as a structural bid that didn't exist in previous cycles. The real question is whether oil-driven inflation fears push the Fed to delay cuts further — that's probably the biggest near-term risk for crypto. Equity correlation has been loosening lately which is a healthy sign for the space overall.

iWearSkinyTies

How about: If BTC < ~20% ATH, then buy at DCA. Else do not buy, instead accumulate capital until next slip.

Decentralization-God

So he bought 18k BTC and price barely moved … This is quite telling …

cashflashmil

If you’re starting from zero, the biggest mistake is jumping straight into trading. Most beginners lose money because they try to trade before they understand how the market actually works. Start with the basics first. Learn what Bitcoin is, how wallets work, how exchanges operate, and why crypto markets move. A lot of price action is driven by narratives, macro liquidity and market cycles, not just indicators. If I were starting today, I’d do it like this:  1. Learn Bitcoin first Understand why it exists and how the network works. Everything else in crypto tends to follow BTC.  2. Watch the market before trading Spend time just observing. Watch how BTC reacts to news, macro events, ETF flows and liquidity. After a while you start recognizing patterns.  3. Invest small while learning You don’t need a lot of money to start. Even small amounts help you understand the psychology of the market.  4. Avoid leverage at the beginning Most beginners blow up their account using leverage. Also try to filter the noise. Crypto is full of hype and recycled takes. It helps to follow a few sources that actually explain what’s moving the market. One habit that helped me a lot was reading short daily market summaries instead of endlessly scrolling crypto takes on X or random YouTube predictions. I personally read a daily brief called WebSnack. It’s a quick overview of what actually moved the market that day - Bitcoin, macro signals and the main narratives in crypto. It makes it much easier to follow the market without getting lost in all the noise.

Forsaken-Welcome-709

The goal is NOT to make money ( fiat cash garbage ;) ). Many of us go through a "what even is Bitcoin" phase, and it forces us to ask and answer hard questions about "what even is money". Once you get through that, you change your frame of reference. Cash is not money, Bitcoin is money. Cash is just what everyone out there wants to use as money. And wall street is willing to even lend this cash thing to us so we can use that instead of buying this cash thing. What's the benefit of that? Well asset appreciation. But it isn't appreciation to us, its just stepping away from the massive constant debasement of what everyone else is calling money. So sure, you will give me a loan so I can use this "cash", and then ask for the money back later on after it has been debased to hell? What a deal, what a steal! The trick of course is that there are many variables to consider. APR, time, liquidation levels, and Bitcoin's perceived and traded volatility in the market. These things, that the finance industry uses as the basis of their rules when lending to you, affect your ability to safely borrow. So we have to over compensate. This is why it isn't the right thing for EVERYONE to do, but for many it is beneficial. The TLDR; is that if the CAGR (compound annual growth rate) of Bitcoin is higher than the APR of the loan, then by the time you have to pay off the loan, you end up selling less of your bitcoin for the amount that you borrowed. But even better, you can borrow more and roll over the loan. Well now we are starting to see the benefits of that "compound" word. The loan compounds, but the CAGR does too, and since it is higher than the APR, it compounds faster than the APR. Then there's the volatility of Bitcoin: CAGR is a smooth straight line, Bitcoin doesn't trade like that, so there needs to be a lot of precautions taken. People recommend keeping below 15% LTV (loan to value) when you take out your loan(s) at all times. This way it should theoretically survive any bear market, even if Bitcoin crashed 80%, you wouldn't be forced to liquidate and settle the loan, so you can continue to let TIME do its thing. Over time, you debt grows into tens, hundreds of thousands, or a million or more, but.... percentage wise, it goes down. Your LTV goes from 15% to 10% to 5% to 1%. That means when you finally decide to pack it up, you sell 0.01 BTC instead of 0.15 BTC. The other important reason is that governments demand CAPITAL GAINS TAXES. If you sell your bitcoin now, you pay the market value, and you pay high taxes on top of that. If you do it after you retire, you pay less taxes potentially because you don't earn a salary anymore, plus the value grew higher, so Bitcoin right now is for many, a savings play, not a make a quick buck play. In the future, if the climate changes and governments decide that Bitcoin is money and that it shouldn't be subject to capital gains taxes, then even better! Time is on our side, even if CGT goes up, it is very likely that the value of the asset appreciated enough that we still made out the winner. CGT applies whether you buy paper money, or buy a house or buy a wedding, whatever. Anyway, all the while, you just keep stacking and keeping money to yourself until everyone else catches up and starts to ask for your bitcoin money instead of the toilet paper. Now, even with all that I have said, playing with loans is still dangerous, still feels like gambling, and so people like myself just stack and/or hodl, and don't over invest so that we can live off our salaries and keep that bitcoin for emergencies or retirement, or for some big expense that we were saving for... like a wedding, or a house or something we need in the future that we otherwise couldn't have afforded. I think of those who take loans, half of them will do magnitudes better than us, and half of them will get rekt because it takes much more discipline to manage loans like this without getting into trouble and undoing all your hard work in a moment.

Kozlodoj

Reading this thread, it’s clear why the "going to zero" narrative keeps popping up: people are trying to force a speculative asset to act like stable fiat. As someone who relies purely on data and algorithmic models to trade, I can tell you that BTC’s volatility is a feature, not a bug. But it’s a feature that will liquidate you if you don't have a strict risk framework. Whether it goes to 1 million or drops to 50k again doesn't matter if you have a system that cuts losses at 2% and lets the data dictate the entries. Take the emotion out of it. (I share the exact risk-management blueprints and setups my hub uses on my profile for anyone tired of the rollercoaster). Protect your capital first.

EarningsPal

Privacy is coming in soon. There are whole smart contract blockchains that can do private defi and move tokens privately soon. And those pipes are definitely working on providing pathways to privately bridge BTC value onto those blockchains. Once BTC pathways to private blockchains exist, people can enter and exit BTC privately.

avz008

Develop understanding about blockchain: Understand what blockchain is, what Bitcoin solves, and what a wallet is. Coingecko's Learn articles and research reports are a good starting point for beginners. Observe the markets: Set up your watchlist on coingecko and watch how the market moves. Learn what market cap means vs price. Understand why a $0.001 coin isn't "cheap" and a $90K Bitcoin isn't ""expensive."" This phase will save you from the most common beginner mistakes. Start small: Buy a small amount of BTC or ETH on a reputable exchange (Coinbase, Kraken, Binance). Learn how to transfer it to a self-custody wallet. This is where the real learning happens. Build the habit: Follow reputable crypto accounts on X to get your daily crypto news. Check prices daily and see what's happening in the market. Over time you'll naturally start understanding trends, narratives, and which information sources are trustworthy vs which are noise. Never invest more than you can afford to lose, and ignore anyone who guarantees returns.

iwakan

You are overthinking this. It doesn't matter how many layers to the investments streams, how many reserves you buffer funds in, or even whether their funds are in BTC or USD. Strategy has only two cash flows. Investor money in. Investor money out. Take from that what you will. You'll notice I haven't even outright called them a ponzi yet, I've just pointed out the facts, and yet you all get so defensive.

marvel2406

Used it briefly to move some BTC. Verification took a little time but after that everything worked perfectly fine.

ImpressiveRelief37

This would work for a business. 99% of people that endorse the bitcoin loaning thing have no idea, never done it, don’t even have enough BTC for a meaningful loan, and certainly don’t have a business. Basically just a bunch of people LARPing 

MotleyMoney

The halving. He's right. Mathematically, there's very little chance they lose. BTC will continue to rise at the end of each cycle.

kafkaisgoodinreels

My experience was okay. Trading BTC was simple but the interface feels kinda basic compared to bigger exchanges.

Sufficient-Oil2452

Tried UEX US a while back for BTC deposits and withdrawals. Everything worked normally. Only thing was the network fee felt a bit high.

Charmin76

People forget about the derivatives market. So many contracts for BTC everyday. They must be leveraging their stash and making a killing.

ecrane2018

A Ponzi scheme has no way of covering the investors they are a fake company selling shares and using new investments to cover old obligations. Strategy uses BTC reserves to issue bonds to those that can’t directly invest in bitcoin and has various other investment levels outside of basic shares. They have no obligation to base share holders the value of that stock is tied to the ratio of btc to shares which fluctuates as shares are dispersed. New capital when acquired is openly stated to be used to cover debt obligations so they don’t have to sell btc. It’s like when AMC was diluting their stock to pay debt it’s not a Ponzi scheme.

Suitable-Cucumber523

I'm in a similar boat where there's almost no one I can really tell about my BTC stack or accomplishments other than very close family. Even posting it online in any sort of account linked to yourself in any way is unwise. I guess money has always been that way, in that your investments, cash on hand, assets you own, asset values are all extremely personal and only you should really know about them. Even a wife knowing about them will likely come back to haunt you one day as she eyes her exit plan on half of all your assets.