BTC

DryMyBottom

good, one more way for BTC to reach people

Romanizer

There are strategies that you could backtest which outperform buy-and-hold, though this is based on historical figures. For most, it is best to just buy and put into cold storage, increase your contribution when we are below certain moving averages, take out a loan when we are at very low points. Whatever works for you to reach the goal of getting as much BTC as possible.

welshdragoninlondon

They are ALT coins because a competitor could be released next month and everyone would forget these exist. No one has released a competitor that can take place of BTC

OutsideAd7994

Respectfully, be careful here. Anything involving seed phrases, puzzles, and rewards later is exactly where things go sideways and even unintentionally. If the encoding method is truly valuable, the priority should be recovering it privately, not crowdsourcing it. Once data’s public, you can’t undo that. Also, AI won’t magically crack cryptography without leaking your edge. If this ties to a Mt. Gox claim, talk to a professional who understands both crypto custody and legal recovery. My advice, don’t trade control for speed or hope especially when real BTC is on the line

shhh_its_sneakos

I was curious too... had a chatbot analyze the image and estimate the energy usage needed to accumulate that stack, assuming it was mined (also making many, many other assumptions). Total estimated energy usage is avg 33,000 MWh per year to mine \~4000 BTC total over the years in the chart, which is a continuous/instantaneous 3.8 MW of load. Then it would depend on more things: where is it mined regionally? What are avg energy prices in that region? Are they buying wholesale? Assuming they're buying wholesale, three price estimates * 📉 **Low (ERCOT-like)**: **\~$7–8 M (this is Texas btw)** * 📊 **Mid (U.S. average / Western)**: **\~$11 M** * 📈 **High (NE / higher cost)**: **\~$13–14 M** Then just for fun let's assume they're buying at *consumer* prices in the same regions: * **ERCOT (Texas-like retail)** * \~$0.09–$0.14 / kWh (=$90–$140 / MWh) * **Estimated total cost:** \~$21M – $33M * **Western U.S. (CA / Northwest retail)** * \~$0.12–$0.18 / kWh (=$120–$180 / MWh) * **Estimated total cost:** \~$28M – $42M * **Northeast (ISO-NE / NY retail)** * \~$0.15–$0.22 / kWh (=$150–$220 / MWh) * **Estimated total cost:** \~$35M – $51M And this is all assuming it's in the US... If it's a nation-state, then prices would be way different. But yes, a fun exercise indeed. Conclusion: if they're in the US and mining that hard, hopefully they're buying wholesale in Texas.

CleverNoise

Smart people will not need to buy or sell their BTC there, only noobs.

OutsideAd7994

Chasing 1BTC is emotional, not strategic. At 48 with a kid, your edge should be balance and not max conviction. I’d ask one question, does going from 0.7 to 1BTC materially change your life if BTC wins or materially hurt it if it doesn’t?

exstaticj

I used one at a gas station to cash out some BTC and buy beer. I was already drinking when I did it. Not my best decision.

Sir_Funk

Bonus? I say blow whoever you need to, just get that 1 BTC!

Nementon

No, that's mine BTC, get away 🐧

imaginecomplex

Even 0.1 BTC / ETH is generous. If that were the case now, ETH would be over 9000

giggitygoo123

Money changes people. A $50ish investment of 2 large pizzas for 10k BTC is worth almost $930 million USD now.

Own_Condition_4686

If I was gonna gamble in a market it wouldn’t be Bitcoin. BTC is the most holdable asset ever.

gothikplatypus

The BTC ATMs charge ridiculous markups

EvidenceWorking

Not at all why would you hold now when the bottom is clearly coming in October 2026? I love BTC but that just seems silly given the projected 18k bottom. 4 year cycle deniers are downvoting me. But if you sell now and buy back in in October you can 5x your BTC holdings.

Illustrious_Cat1339

That would be great. I would probably sell everything I own and put it all in BTC at a 30k dip

Kyleb851

BTC has mass adoption. No uninformed, nonsensical BTC memes are created or spread. You can only pick one

Sea-Environment-5938

I think quotes like this matter less as price targets and more as reflections of conviction The real signal isn't "$1M BTC," it's the idea that once an asset proves durability at scale, people stop thinking in short-term ceilings and start thinking in orders of magnitude.

VariatCA

Blackrock (IBIT and ETHA) single-handedly kept ETF flows from getting out of hand today. Total BTC outflows today were -$243M, with IBIT being the lone net-buyer at +$228M. This makes $888M worth of blackrock BTC inflows in just 3 days. Total ETH inflows today were +114.7M, with ETHA being basically the lone net-buyer at +198M. This makes $350M worth of blackrock ETH inflows in just 3 days.

Icy-Inflation-5903

Sold a whole 1 BTC once for a mystery box that had a sticker in it. 😂

thoth218

The usually charge about 30% above actual BTC price

AutoModerator

Post is by: jpjacques1993 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1q66fmb/bitcoin_and_the_ism_manufacturing_pmi_business/ There's a lot of talk of the ISM Manufacturing PMI essentially measuring the Business Cycle, and the Business Cycle's correlation to Bitcoin's Bull Cycle. The main concept circulating is that the Business Cycle is the reason that the 4 year Bitcoin Cycle is dead. The ISM PMI measures the overall health of the Manufacturing Sector (expansion or contraction) More specifically it measures New Orders Production Employment Supplier Deliveries and Inventories PMI Peaks often align with Business Cycle peaks, so it is often a leading indicator of the Business Cycle itself. Above 50 shows Expansion Below 50 shows Contraction It's been in Contraction since 2022 / 2023. With 20% of the Data measuring Employment, My only concern is that Manufacturing Employment is likely to be impacted by the advancements being made in AI / Robotics. If it gets back above 50 (better yet 55) we can expect explosive growth for Bitcoin and the broader Cryptocurrency market as a whole. Until then [$BTC](https://x.com/search?q=%24BTC&src=cashtag_click) is likely at the mercy of the ISM PMI. I posted about this on X on the 4th and the next day, January 5th, 2026 a 60 Minutes Posts about Boston Dynamics Atlas is sending FLEETS to Hyundai and Google lol. I wanted to get everyone's opinion on this because I don't see anyone discussing it and I feel like it's kind of important if we're going to try to use the ISM PMI as an excuse as to why we haven't had a proper blow-off-top Euphoric Bull Run like the ones we're familiar with.  *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Holiday-Kaler

No KYC wallets are fine, but don’t chase random low caps expecting fast gains. BTC being “low” only matters if you’re thinking long term. If you’re new, small buys over time beat trying to time one entry. Stick to liquid coins, learn basics first, and don’t expect a few bucks to reliably turn into 2–3k. Also worth using a self-custody wallet you trust long term like Solflare so you’re not stuck later.

unknownnoname2424

There is only 21 million BTC amongst billions of people

Educational-Form9390

Why own 1 gold bar?... which is what BTC is, digital gold. That's not an investment. BTC is just a 10X....INVEST in Google, Broadcom now, and SpaceX when it goes public re-investing all dividends. Thank me later. Get rich slow, the Warren Buffett way.

dpwcnd

Local BTC machine is always at a blue screen.  

Numerous_Wonders81

Scudo is a UX win, not a monetary breakthrough. It makes tokenized gold easier to price and move, but it doesn’t change the core reality: XAU₮ is still custodial, issuer-trusted gold. That’s the key difference vs BTC. Bitcoin isn’t just divisible or digital — it removes the need to trust an issuer at all. Scudo improves gold on crypto rails, but it doesn’t turn gold into trust-minimized money. Useful product. Not a replacement for Bitcoin or Algorand.

GreenStretch

Now I'm out of alts for real, just sold the last ETH. BTC only.

YogurtCloset3335

lol fine use a contract, now you have to wrap it and unwrap it for 5x the cost of just doing a simple BTC transaction lol

HODLHero_BTC

That math assumes all newly mined BTC is sold immediately and that the existing supply remains liquid. In practice, price is set at the margin. When long-term holders stop selling and coins leave exchanges, even modest demand can move the price far more than issuance math suggests. Issuance matters. Liquidity matters more.

Several_Interaction4

If it was more $ then I probably would have paid more attention... oh well. \*\*Side note: did a balance check on that address: 0.21579564 BTC (currently \~$20,068.13) boy, oh boy)\*\*

smokemeaclipper

Diversify into stock index funds, tax free wrapped, you already own a lot of BTC, wish I did this instead of going all in on crypto years ago.

Academic_Attorney996

The miracle is when I see 1 BTC= $1 Million.

Informal-Ad220

...While watching BTC sail past $169K and never getting your whole coin.

Academic_Attorney996

Go ALL-IN ,son. Make it to 1 whole BTC. The lowest is right now.

VeryInterestingOk100

The convenience and anonymity of using a mall BTC ATM lmaoo some of you will find any way to bend over then lie to yourselves

Wise-Start-9166

No. Buy another 0.1 or 0.05 or so BTC, keep the rest of the bonus as an emergency fund, pay off bills, debt, or spend it with friends enjoying life. Take your time building up to 1 BTC. There is no rush.

timronan

25BTC

ironmoosen

My prediction for a long time was $10k ETH when BTC hit $120k. I’m still surprised that it hasn’t done better this cycle.

OpticallyMosache

You know what's better than 1 BTC? 2 BTC

Th3onib

If you sold at 84k in profit, good for you, don't listen to clowns like this that probably only buy 1$ of BTC then come make a stupid post about it. Always take profits people

BlownOutRectum

The spread is pretty crazy, I looked at one because I was going to use it to deposit a small amount of free cash I had, and saw that they wanted $110kUSD for BTC about 3 weeks ago.

Advanced_Tank

BTC is -3.3% for the year, silver is up 148%.

cryptoboywonder

Not sure what you mean that I am misleading people. I think you do not understand finances. As long as assets (collaterals for the loan) increase in value, banks will not call back the loan. Sure BTC will appreciate without dividends. Who said one needs dividends to increase in value? You mentioned about cashflow. If the assets keep increasing in value then one can potentially keep borrowing against those assets. Of course rich people will get better loan rates than the average Joe.

Dazzling_Marzipan474

>Lee predicted that ETH would reach $15,000 last year. Very rough estimates. I aint doing much math for something this stupid. So let's see that would put BTC at like a $10T market cap and ETH at $45T. Where the fuck is this extra $52T coming from. The entire crypto market cap is like $3T now. This guy is a dolt.

ObligationSea2667

holding above key support levels. 49 on the fear-greed scale. stop looking at the charts multiple times per day. give it time and let key support zones make your decision. - SOL was $116 recently and is near $140 now - eth was hovering around $2600 - $2800 for weeks, is now holding above its $3200 support zone - ICP was $2.66, now holding above $3.20 - **KEY FACTOR** Pullbacks are good. You don’t want it to do nothing but moon. Holding above support zones is what you want, and if BTC breaks $95k - $96k - we could be looking at a true bull run

Illustrious_Cat1339

Not to be feared whatsoever. If anything, it should show you how serious you should take BTC. Owning a lot of Bitcoin isn’t the same as controlling it. Governments holding BTC might influence price, but they can’t change the rules, supply cap, or censor transactions. That’s very different from fiat, where the U.S. can literally print trillions of new dollars. As long as mining and nodes stay globally distributed, Bitcoin remains decentralized.

Fear_Blind83

No, Venezuela BTC is just a rumor. This $30Bn is BTC seized from criminals & hackers by the FBI, DOJ & U.S. Marshall Service.

typeIIcivilization

Don’t listen to Reddit negativity. Everyone could use confidence and assurance and different perspectives to make a decision. Not necessary but sometimes possible. For what it’s worth, if you can do it financially and your other investments are balanced, you have an emergency fund, and understand the volatility of bitcoin and do not plan to sell… I’d level out to a full coin. If you’re interested to know, at some point theoretically BTC should reach gold parity and above. Parity means the same market cap as gold. And seeing as the properties of BTC as money far exceed gold, the same should be true for the market cap. The market should naturally flow to make it so.

Mrblack933

Engineer here. I was doing the math on a similar problem, but with S21 antminers. My assumptions: $.12/kWh. BTC at 100k. It becomes profitable at electricity costs of $.07/kWh. Now an antminer has better efficiency than what you're looking at, but it's a very simple problem. Look at what energy your current heating unit consumes versus the amount of heat produced. You can convert btus to kw using calculators online. Then look at the hash rate of your miner to determine it's productivity. Like you said, if it consumes 1kw you are receiving 1kw of heating. You will have to do the math and see at what price of BTC it makes sense to mine versus conventional heating. BUT without doing the math on your particular setup I am going to guess it would be profitable for you because essentially the electricity would be free. If you aren't comfortable with the math, just talk it out with chatgpt. It does a great job.

Easy_Reflection_9128

Imagine selling right before Alt season starts. Boys things are just heating up. 300k BTC is a given. Moon soon!

respectandmanners

Pay down debt first. No debt to pay, then BTC all the way

Seattleman1955

Getting to an even 1 BTC means nothing other than it's .3 BTC more than you have.

BQbaobao

It’s just math. The real question is why he picked 50 BTC for first block reward. Simple number. The sum of 50 for the duration of the first halving plus 25 for the next and 12.5 for the next ad Infinitum gets you 21M If he picked 100 then it would have been 42M coins.

KiNg-MaK3R

50% bitcoin, 40% S&P500, 10% blow on something fun. (New game system, clothes, vacation, whatever, but treat yourself). Every time I’ve gotten a bonus I’ve done this. You’ll make your way to the 1 BTC mark. But always diversify.

NinjaChore

I can see MSTR causing BTC to drop significantly

Araragi83

The speed is insane ! Do you know what card they use to pay in BTC via the Lightning network ?

YSL_Crypto

Im targeting $40-60k as the low point this year. If it gets to $18k I’ll buy a whole BTC

YSL_Crypto

Sounds like you want to get to 1 whole BTC and I don’t blame you, it’s a great accomplishment. Your son will thank you in the future. I’m also under the impression that we’ll see a pullback in price this year. What about half in retirement and half in BTC and then doing the same with next year’s bonus ?

Rjim1

I'm also 48 and recently finished a whole coin, it became an obsession, as if somehow I would feel complete once I achieved the goal. That obviously didn't happen but Ido feel very proud of myself because it took some serious dedication and sacrifice. I had to literally save all of my disposable income to do it, I didn't have an alcoholic drink or eat out/takeaway for two years but it did the trick. I would love more but I'm now concentrating on Bittensor (Tao) as I believe it's got incredible potential and in my opinion there's some serious gains to be made over the next decade, I'm up to 53 so far. This is not to say that I'm not still bullish on BTC because I am but I believe the return on the TAO will be better at this stage. They will both be my retirement in 15-20 years.

Adventurous-Cut-1287

Everyone gets BTC at the price they deserve.

Top_Limit_

Plow in a figure out how to survive. Plowed into 1 BTC, put it away and now I’m rebuilding. Currently have $2K in BTC and stocks that I worry about.

654321745954

Tangem ring. Tangem kind of sucks for BTC because there's no HD wallet support. But for traveling, which I do often, I always bring the ring

jaraxel_arabani

fair enough. For the record I've been following BTC since 2014 myself before it was cool... Biggest regret is I had the chance to get 100+ of it in 2014 and didn't purely because it was inconvenient at the time and pure OTC for me. Regreets amirite? I have a different view of what is positive economic activity and why I don't see commodity holding companies should be counted. I'm not saying that should only apply to Bitcoin, I'm saying that's how it should be I my view. I did get offended because I'm in an irritable mood today so that's on me. To be clear I'm well aware that is how even other commodity companies are, and I'm simply saying they do not generate actual productivity aside from creating debt based fiat economy. Which is exactly what I am personally against. Saying this is how other commodity holding companies are treated doesn't mean it is right, to me it shouldn't be included unless the company /does/ something aside from pure financial constructs with that commodity. The line blurs for banks where they are purely about creating loans, and that is where it is something harder to answer; one which I don't have much more thinking into regarding how. If I have to put a like in it, I would consider any pure financial entities not on itself a contribution to productivity but rather an instrument for enabling it. In that regard they shouldn't count either.... But that's not how GDP works (and don't get me started on that whole metric) Having actually worked on the financial industry I can say for certain nothing they do is actual productivity or direct contribution... So I probably group treasury companies in the same category. Money is an enabler, it's not in itself a productivity contributor.

soks86

Totally. Low volatility in BTC means the prices will go up because the sellers have run dry.

SeemedGood

Given that all of that was likely seized, just more evidence that BTC doesn’t work.

DwightsShirtGuy

If BTC 1000x in my lifetime again I’ll eat my shorts.

Optimal_Jump_8395

You can buy Bitcoin and you get a paper receipt for your sats or it gets sent to your phone or email, I think? I've wondered about the fees though. I know this one guy in his 70s who uses BTC ATMs to pay for his medications.

Possible_Peak_7929

I think OP is referring to whether it will become practical for everyday use. Currently, BTC is bought as an investment and not actively used to purchase everyday things.

Powerful_Tough1718

Lots of people negative on here, but if you’d ask it on r/bitcoinmining, you’d get more positive responses. I am using 2 Avalon Q and 1 Avalon Mini 3 to heat my house, if temps go to below 0*F I think I’d have to shut all my windows but as it is, I always have at least one open to let excess heat out. These machines make no more noise than a forced air heating system. I’m at .10 KwH and I break even/profit on the cost of the electric when BTC is over $90,000. That doesn’t figure the cost of the machines but I plan for the BTC price appreciation to cover that. Obviously you have to plan to pay the electric bill out of pocket for that. As far as summer time, I’ll probably just put them in a room I don’t need and vent to outdoors. Check out Red Panda on YouTube for some great instructional videos on the Avalon home miners. 

VariatCA

After all that, BTC finished the day only down -0.19%, and ETH nearly got all the way back to its morning peak to finish +2.2%.

Optimal_Jump_8395

Aren't BTC ATMs for old people? What's the difference in cost between a Bitcoin ATM and a CEX like Coinbase or the CashApp?

rhozack

I've been heating a few rooms with miners. I don't quite cover the cost of power at current prices but 1. I was using the power on space heaters anyway. 2. I started in 2020 so if you take into account the appreciating BTC then I'm well ahead of miner and electricity costs. I just replaced my old S9s with new units from 256 Heat. If you are in Canada they are worth checking out. Maybe USA too, I'm not sure how/if tariffs effect them.

Powerful_Tough1718

Simply not true, I’m using solely bitcoin miners to heat my house, and when BTC is over 90,000 I am breaking even on the cost of the electric. Which means paying $100 = making $100. 

dubski04021

I posted my conspiracy theory on the Bitcoin sub Reddit, and got banned… Foreign entities own ~60% of the US debt… The US will devalue the dollar, switch national currency to BTC, and then the debt will be useless. It’s the easiest way out of debt without a World War. Just a conspiracy theory though.

nugymmer

We will prove it when BTC drops below 60k and by God it will.

Otherwise-Finding337

Disagree on multi family properties. I believe (and just my opinion) that thr purpose of BTC is ultimately be THE investment second only to the home you live in. In other words, real estate should not be run as a business. Its my hope that this will change over time. Owning multiple properties and renting them out is an inefficiency ultimately leading to higher home prices, higher rent, more homeless, etc. Just my opinion though. We will see what BTC becomes in 20 to 30 years.

Virtual_Television98

POV you try to time travel in the year 2226 to when Bitcoin started to pick up 1 Million BTC like Satoshi but the machine glitched

A-Stock-A-Day

I'm mostly a long-term spot holder (mainly BTC/ETH),still believe in the fundamentals, adoption, ETFs, and scarcity post-halving. The past couple years' choppy action (with BTC consolidating around $90k early 2026 after the late-2025 dip) has tested patience, but I view drawdowns as accumulation opportunities rather than reasons to baghold forever.

VariatCA

Strategy not being de-listed by the MSCI is another pretty big recovery tailwind for Bitcoin/Crypto. There has undoubtedly been some investors concerned about Bitcoin if MSTR was vulnerable to an index de-list. That could have harmed their exposure, reputation, and their stock price. *That* in turn could put their big stockpile of BTC in jeopardy in the long-term, and cause worry about buying Bitcoin while MSTR unwinding could flood the market and tank the price. That ruling will undoubtedly be a big relief to both potential Bitcoin/crypto buyers *and* MSTR buyers simultaneously.

rgnet1

I just realized the person you’re responding to is called “that BCHguy”. When he says “they” are making it prohibitively expensive, he’s talking about bitcoin core devs. Pretty silly since the fee structure is the same as it’s always been. The scalability was a known and managed issue since its inception. BCH, despite forking from the original project in 2017, has a market cap of about 1% that of BTC but its followers remain delusional that someday the market will flip to wanting bitcoin with larger blocks and more transactions per sec at the cost of decentralization.

HoldCtrlW

Next stop is $36k BTC

Seattleman1955

Owning a house is a leverage "investment" where you also pay back in debased dollars. It's also a "lifestyle" choice. You are also, by renting, just buying someone else a house. BTC isn't going to grow at the same rate forever. Do both.

setokaiba22

If we didn’t have Strategy or Saylor we’d have an empty subreddit I suppose. Posts are either Strategy buying more BTC or BTC rises on a daily basis posts

harvested

Why post if you have no knowledge of the subject? Bitcoin is used for small small transactions every day. BTC map has 20,000 merchants who accept bitcoin, that's constantly growing.

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FennelExpress

I guess it depends on each person goals. For myself is to quit the rat race and use my time to study whatever the hell I come up with, and for that I want to have a paid property, preferably with the lowest possible property tax (or even zero, if moving abroad enters the plan). That might not be cheaper than rent by the end, but it allows me to reduce my income drastically from that point on and still have a roof a land to work. It also better future proof than jut belive the current economic arrangements will persist 20 years for now, and by that time figure your money (paper, gold or BTC) didn't scaled up as much as the rents for some reason.

GoodFaithGPT

This subreddit is 99% conviction. Good on you for attempting to elevate the conversation beyond the meme scroll. BTC is some sort of value exchange mechanism. But if it remains a process of individual gain without coherence, this it will remain a niche phenomenon. It's main flaw that I see is the continued reference to dollars as the ultimate focal point of value. As long as it keeps doing this BTC will remain forever tethered to the prospect of individual gain, BTC is almost like a superorganism, but with it's component parts only synchronised in structure, not meaning. Things without meaning ultimately die, because what is the point. There is potential here to become something. To find out what what might be, we will need to look closely at the greater system in which this superorganism currently resides. It's grown (or death) is highly dependent on the environment in which it exists. But hey, just a though and what do I know?

FennelExpress

This might be the worst Bitcoin explanation I'll ever hear. Bad comparisons, bad examples, zero effective information given, and to be honest I'm even against stating that 'you don't have to understand it', because if you don't, you'll be literally believing someone's else's advise, which is not aways the safest way to invest. You will only really SEE how promising BTC is after learning your share of economic, markets, cryptography, network and programming principles. Before that, you'll only be a believer (which is ok I guess, but don't fool yourself).

bcoppari

I feel the same way. I see nothing but hate and FUD. Either bots or people who have no holdings in BTC or any crypto and have no idea what they’re talking about.

Generationhodl

"But a house isn’t just an investment. It’s locking in your biggest cost. Once it’s paid off, no rent hikes, no landlord stress, no having to sell BTC at a bad time just to live somewhere." \- property taxes \- insurance \- maintenance & repairs \- opportunity costs \- political risks People who think buying real estate will save them money are delusional lol real estate is a consumer object.

WorkerPlayful4192

Non-KYC is the platform. That I looking for. Non-KYC platform for trade. BTC himself are clearly anonymous. In standard situation public addresses are annonimys. You can see how much BTC have one address, but now hus owner In KYC platforms is required to share personal data, even face ID. This is how companies identifies public key owners. This is my problem. I don't want my public key to be known by anyone.

Whole-Reserve-4773

Unlimited supply will do that. BTC supply is continuously constrained every few years

Cptn_BenjaminWillard

If BTC gets to $100m, ETH will cure cancer.

oak1337

I've already won the debate, this is just clean up and dog walking. Ethereum - attempted decentralization, failed. You conceded this point, **they are losing the battle to centralized entities**. It was bad in 2018 when Gencer wrote his paper, and it's only continued to get worse until now with a Nakamoto of 2. Battle lost. Centralized. BTC - attempted decentralization, failed (Nakamoto score 3). You quoted both authors that say as much, about mining pools centralizing the system. Again, it's continued to get worse and they have lost the battle. WHY do these authors say this? Because they know **Decentralization of POWER** is what matters, not NODE COUNT, whether it's permissioned or not. EQUALITY of nodes, EQUALITY of power. **Yes, permissionless is the GOAL**, and Hedera has maintained that track. The Dynamic Address Book is live TODAY, so Hedera's 'gatekeeper' role you’re obsessing over 'ad nauseum' has already been coded out of the protocol with that update. So AGAIN I'll bring it back to the beginning. Hedera is CURRENTLY more decentralized than Ethereum, despite being permissioned, and it will only be MORE decentralized over time as it becomes permissionless. This is because Hedera can guarantee equal node consensus power over time, including as it adds more permissionless nodes. It's Nakamoto score will only INCREASE over time, not DECREASE like BTC and ETH. The 4 scenarios still stand: 1)Permissioned & Centralized 2)Permissioned & Decentralized 3)Permissionless & Centralized 4)Permissionless & Decentralized Hedera fits BOTH of the quotes perfectly that you cited from the researchers. **There is not a trusted gatekeeper**. There is a Council of 32 EQUAL members, NONE of whom trust each other, they are ALL rivals and competitors against one another in reality. I don't trust ANY of the council members INDIVIDUALLY either, BUT we can trust the group as a WHOLE. Sound familiar? That's because it's a real life, corporate version of the Byzantine Generals Problem. IBM and Google don't trust each other, they are competitors. I don't trust either of them either. But I trust that they don't trust each other. That is the literal definition of solving the Byzantine Generals Problem in the real world. Your ultimate problem is that you're treating DECENTRALIZATION and PERMISSIONLESS as synonyms with the exact same definition. You use them interchangeably. That is wrong, and where your confusion lies. You will never learn until you're able to separate the two in your mind, realize their differences, and where they overlap.

Suspicious-Bowler829

are they backing US debts with BTC? 🫣

oki_sauce

>Bag holding while innovative companies 20x in a year? (ASTS) Who said I was all in on BTC only? Also very biased. For every ASTS, there are dozens of innovative companies that never recover. So. Easy to point at a green candle and say "looky" That's what most of this sub does when we have a green day. Parading around like they're instantly right. >innovative companies 20x in a year? (ASTS). Bitcoin is no longer an exciting investment in a lot of people’s eyes Never was exciting in most people's eyes. Here we are. But if youre buying something based on excitement, then why are you investing at all. Just trade! > if it WERE to be widely adopted as a transactional currency, it would have to become much less volatile True. >you can kiss your dreams of it going 10x at this point goodbye. Counter point: nah

bbatardo

So BTC will 11x and ETH will 75x+? Find that very hard to believe ETH will outperform BTC that much. In the last 5 years ETH is up slightly more than BTC, but we are talking like 40% higher.

Then_Helicopter4243

i hope he has much BTC in the wallet

Historical_Use2861

Honestly, BTC is far from dead and it probably never will be. One day, it could easily hit 150k, but for now, I think it still needs to drop.Since the start of the year, the whole market has been green. Some altcoins even gained nearly 100% in just 6 days. That doesn’t exactly scream long-term health to me… 😬BTC didn’t really struggle around 90k, the real resistance seems to be at 95k. My guess? This year we might see BTC dip to around 78k at minimum. Now we just wait and see what happens…