BTC

lukewarsius

There is no new information. Everything there is to know about BTC is in the Whitepaper. The concept has flaws and this will not change.

AirStick24

Volatility sure means something, a LOT. Another poster pointed out, I should have a reasonable estimate on how much I am paying for something and for that exchange value not to change over night. I don't disagree with some of your above comment. Many of the sellers that tried to use BTC many years back dropped it, it didn't work. Reddit I think is one example, lol. Maybe you aren't understanding my point. It's a more a stock, if even that; definitely not a currency. All the things you listed above you can do with most assets. It's not a currency. If I can't sell BTC to the next guy for more, it becomes worthless immediately. There is no new product or tangible asset coming with it. Also, how do you protect people? It's to complicated for most. You won't gain any adoption as a currency if you don't have some regulated backing. People won't bail you out when your BTC gets lost or stolen. The value dropped a lot recently. It's hanging on because big investors can't let it fail, too much real $$ at stake. They need to convince the geenal population it will go back up to get buy in. If the general public doesn't buy back in, we will see some big dips soon. If we see a really strong market, I can see people gambling on BTC again.

North_Amphibian7779

Boomer coin Folks the youngins have moved on from crypto to prediction markets BTC is for speculation and purchasing things off the internet that may be harder to do in some places than others

Tyranin

What is Bitcoin actually promising though? Bitcoin only offers one thing in the white paper, it solves the double spend problem present in earlier digital cash systems like Wei Dai's b-money. That's it! It's an immutable peer-to-peer ledger with proof of work and it delivers on that precisely. We can interact with the ledger like a currency. "Digital gold", "Bitcoin fixes this", "backed by the people" and other phrases is just noise and not anything the system claims. 1 BTC will always be 1 out of 21 Million on the ledger. It can't be seized, inflated, or altered. What is volatile is its price in fiat terms, but that's our markets pricing it, not the protocol failing. To answer the original premise posed by OP, through this lens Bitcoin has value. If you want to expand this premise into whether market speculation has evaluated the currency correctly or not, well who are we to say?

baIIern

"nobody is talking about BTC, why is that?"

baIIern

Or maybe it's mainstream now and nobody cares. Nobody googles what BTC is because everyone knows? Retail is in Silver now or the stock market, that's where you can still make money

Mantis-Prawn

When someone publicly asked me about my 700 BTC, I would have forgotten about it too!

baIIern

You'll probably be down again in no time. Zoom out and watch BCH die over the years. The market has chosen the real BTC and you should begin to deal with it

FantasticStop2166

That’s the tax BTC pays for having zero lobby. Without a seat at the table, you’re just the meal for firms like Jane Street. HODL

PrintDoErro

I think you didn’t understand what I wrote. I pointed out that volatility doesn’t mean anything, since even some of the most traditional assets in the market also go through periods of high volatility. As for the claim that BTC doesn’t generate returns… Can I borrow money using BTC as collateral? Yes, I can. Are there market players willing to pay interest on BTC deposits? Yes, there are. Can I sell it, swap it, and even use it to buy goods and pay for services? Of course I can. Does it have no value at all? A $1.3 trillion market cap says you are absurdly wrong.

AirStick24

You are treating BTC like a stock, not a currency. Not sure I follow. Those stock you reference lose $ value, not the $ losing value itself. You made my point for me, BTC is a faux investment that isn't worth anything if you can't make real $ from it.

FTAStyling

BTC will be over 9 trillion dollars by the end of the month, get in now!

fan_of_hakiksexydays

Translation: "I'm a barholder, please be my exit liquidity for my \[insert any alt coin\]. It's totally not like any other alt coins I swear, despite being down 99% like most alt coins. It's also a "BTC killer", despite being centralized. Please hurry, as it's already crashing back down".

Glittering-Local-147

Can you imagine going to the pump today and filling up for $2 a gallon then needing to buy it for $2.30 tomorrow because gas went up? It's 2026, prices can be in real time based on any form of value. If the overall trend is appreciation then the short term fluctuations ultimately don't matter much. The larger and more mature it gets the more stable it becomes. BTC is backed by energy, time, and math.

PartSuccessful2112

In 2016 I bought cannabis seeds from Amsterdam and they were going to give me a discount to buy with bitcoin. The cost was about $130 but with discount would have been $80. I was going to transfer a couple hundred USD to BTC and keep the BTC change on coinbase but decided it was not worth the administrative effort and if my seeds got seized I would have no recourse. Not the biggest mistake of my life.

MagixTouch

Someone said the other day it’s going to 10k. I laughed a little. But in that scenario I would go into serious debt for 10 BTC.

InitialResponsible62

You talk to all of them? Do you just walk up to random neighbors and ask if they own BTC? How large is your suburb? You’re full of shit

lenissius14

Good luck! From my side, I expect to complete my first BTC (or 2, depending my job situation) before the next halving and also I expect it to bottom down to 45-50k, but still not sure of it's new ATH, my most conservative take is 150-175k

UWhuskiesRule

Yeah. The bottom might already be in a few days ago. Way better to DCA than to guess when BTC will hit a certain price.

Heebron

I searched this thread for "third" and "counter" and found nothing. Using Bitcoin requires no third party trust.(Unless you count the Internet and the massive # of nodes). It is the best capture of human energy and time yet invented. I can trade carrots for buffalo and it is only the two involved parties that settle the difference in BTC.

InitialResponsible62

Sure, point taken. But if we look at BTC, its value can drop by 25% in 2 weeks and it has. Even shitty currencies in third world countries don’t experience devaluation on that scale. Like I said, I’m fascinated by this asset class, and money can be made. But it isn’t a currency until its value becomes more stable and when it begins widely accepted by the majority of retailers, businesses, governments, people get paid in BTC etc. No insurance company or mortgage company, airline , rental car agency, IRS, etc accepts BTC as currency. Until then it’s nothing more than a fascinating highly speculative instrument backed by nothing.

luckysu888

Isn’t the value of BTC depends on someone who is willing to pay the current price of BTC? ..

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

It would have helped if you had actually specified the reasons for abolishing gold standard, so I could respond to them directly. Now I am left guessing whether youre referring to deflation risks, limited monetary flexibility, or something else. While you are right that parts of BTCs ecosystem isnt trustable, the issue lies with the intermediaries, not with Bitcoin itself. The code is perfectly trustable and everyone can check the code for themselve. Regarding your claim that BTC is only holding up because of illicit money: Chainalysis estimates the volume of illicit transactions about 1-2% of yearly volume. Thats not very high. BTC also got SEC approved ETFs. Companies, pension funds & governments all holding BTC. It gets more institutionalized day by day. Wouldnt have happened if its just a vehicle for illicit money transfers, dont you think?

niddess

No BTC ATM in my country

Longjumping-Row-6147

Agree 100% with what people are saying about chasing 100x - those days may be done and you are far more likely to get scammed, rekt and or just round trip your money because you dont take profit. From someone who has been there, and someone who has invested in what i consider solid coins with staying power and good fundamentals (i.e. LINK, XRP, SOL) even then your best bet over the next couple years is to stick with BTC and ETH. It is an illusion that somehow "they have gone up so much so cant possibly go up more and make me money". We have a handful of projects now that have survived bull and bear markets and a graveyard of projects that have not. Do what you want of course but if i were you I'd bolster your position in those bigger - established coins you mentioned! Good luck!

Alarming_Present_401

Get into BCH this things going parabolic over the next 6 months as BTC dies a slow death for no practical use

EnigmaAPLifestyle

Your answer isn’t really correct, and the decentralised aspect applies to any other cryptocurrency as well as to precious metals and other asset classes. The real answer to the question ’why does BTC even have value’ is actually the same as any other speculative investment: ‘Because at the moment, people believe that it does”.

Zestyclose_Paint3922

My friend, Fiat money is simply money in today’s terms. There are very explicit and technical reasons why gold standard was abolished. I seriously believe there might be som confusion around the concept from your side to think money is seriously comparable to bitcoin considering the essence of what makes money valuable (trust, conventions, real world use). BTC has proved many times in the past the ecosystem itself isn’t trustable which is te main reason that should make it valuable or not. No intrinsic value in BTC, pure speculation. I know the term confusion might sound as an insult, but I can’t think of anything else that makes you talk about fiat money the way we’re talking.

DavidLeandro01

Eu fiz vários empréstimos para comprar bitcoin. Mas diferente de você chutei o balde. Só pretendo pagar corretamente apenas um mesmo. Depois que o BTC triplicar, eu renegocio as dívidas e pago usando algum empréstimo com BTC colateralizado com muita margem de sobra. Esse ano, vou abrir uma empresa no nome de alguém, e usar o crédito dessa empresa para eu seguir minha vida normalmente ao longo dos próximos anos. Depois de uns 2-3 anos, boto essa empresa pra ir de arrasta com outros empréstimos pra comprar mais BTC. Acredito que até lá já tenho resolvido os problemas dos primeiros empréstimos. E vida que segue.

ODD_Old_Dirty_Degen

When price goes down its always manipulation and when it goes up its always organic. Could it just be that BTC is in a bear market? Just a thought...

Fun-Flatworm-7516

Hey all, PayPal just deposited $100,000 into my Bitcoin account!!! It now says I now own 1.49 BTC!!! I've never owned a full bitcoin in my life and now I have almost one and a half! Should I sell the whole thing and deposit it into my bank account or do you guys think the price will go up?

adequate_redditor

It was already like that before ETFs to some degree, but you are right. ETF buyers are in it for the money and will sell as soon as there’s uncertainty, as they do with other risk assets. This in turn impact the BTC price.

adequate_redditor

It doesn’t need to be one or the other. Gold has been doing much better than BTC for the last year or so. Not so much real estate, but during Covid there was a real estate price surge. There’s always a bull market somewhere. Investing for the long term doesn’t mean picking just one asset class.

CapitalIncome845

You're overselling this. Title should be: **Why own at least one fucking sat?** Unless you own a reasonable amount of BTC it will not change your life appreciably.

EarningsPal

Private transfers are incoming. There are blockchains they can do it already and some being launched to handle it for BTC too.

InitialResponsible62

Blackrock buys BTC for their fund IBIT to back mostly retail investment dollars coming in with BTC. IT IS Not for themselves!

Concept211

You're right that liquidations definitely played a part, but honestly after seeing multiple cycles I don't really separate them that way anymore. Real buying and liquidations are both real buying - someone's wallet is moving BTC at those prices regardless of why they're doing it. The market doesn't care about your reasoning. That said, yeah positioning was heavily skewed short going into that push. I watched the liquidation cascade on perps and it was gnarly - once shorts started breaking, it cascaded hard. But here's the thing: if there wasn't at least some real demand under it, the move would've collapsed way faster on the way down. We held those levels pretty well which tells me there was actual interest, not just a dead cat bounce from forced buying. The biggest tell for me is always whether new money kept flowing in after the initial squeeze. In 2021 we'd see liquidation spikes that reversed in hours. This time we've been

Glittering_Pick_9738

I bought both (more BTC though, BCH is my second bag).

Tibuski

Wonderful piece of art ! I am wondering if, in our wonderful tax system, they could find a way to tax this as complementary income as it's not anonymous and they can easily find the history of BTC received...

TheManWithTheBigBall

The price doesn’t really move because the poors on reddit made small individual trades—90% of the people who invest in it make up a very small percentage of the overall. The reason it crashed is because every major exchange sold 15K+ coins at the same time. About 6 different companies—and that wiped out the value. This entire subreddit probably doesn’t even account for 60k coins. Some things to keep an eye on in 2028 that occcur every cycle: Major bitcoin miners dump their coins about 3-4 months before the halving. The price actually drops because of this leading up to the halving and creates doubt in the market—usually a good time to buy. The halving doesn’t instantly cause the price to juice, it usually takes 6-8 months for btc to pop off post-halving. The price pump usually lasts about a year post-halving, sometimes two. The price jumped 3x 2 halvings ago (2020-2021), and went up 2x in 2024-2025. In keeping with the pattern (unless something causes mass adoption or liquidation), the next halving should see a 1-5-1.75x jump from the prior ATH of 120-126K over the year following the 2028 halving. Folks who are super into BTC call it the “BTC Power Law,” interesting concept I’d research.

MBD7001

BTC is like the OF girl or the influencer they have value cuz people wanna throw money at them. the end

Altruistic-Onion-461

Oh, that just tax for conversion from BRL to any digital asset. 15% is another one for traders. If you buy BTC for 68k and sell it for 78k will pay 15% of the difference, só 1.5k. and pay the 3.5% in tax on both conversion. This one was approved last year. The 3.5% is with politicians for approval.

TheManWithTheBigBall

It has double the value it had 3 years ago. You really can’t look at BTC peaking then crashing and talk about relative value. No offense but the short term outlook on it is not very accurate for looking at its real value. It has periods of very strong volatility as it sets at a new “low,” or price band, then it resets. This has happened every 4 years of its existence, like clockwork. It’s true in general that past performance of STOCKS don’t indicate future returns—but BTC is not a stock and operates very differently. You know when the halving will be, and at this point, we know how the market reacts to it. It’s been very interesting to watch cycle after cycle how emotional people get when it’s peaking—buy buy buy! But also how emotional people get when it crashes from the new ATH. If you’re new to BTC, it always feels like it’s over and the high just ended, but the longer you follow it (3-4 cycles), you’ll start to realize there’s a firm pattern and that when it crashes—it’s a great time to buy and hodl. Last time it dropped by 60%, not 50%, but it also tripled in value when it popped off, instead of doubling. It’s really obvious what’s occurring if you look at it as a 5-10year investment and not some “get rich quick” scheme.

ActNew5818

FOMC meetings have historically been volatile for BTC, that's for sure. But the direction isn't always predictable - it's more about "expectations vs reality." Looking at past data: \- When Fed signals are hawkish (rate hikes/tightening) → BTC typically dumps 5-15% in the 48h after \- When signals are dovish (rate cuts/easing) → BTC usually pumps 8-20% \- When it matches expectations exactly → often a "sell the news" event The tricky part is the market usually prices in the expected move beforehand. So if everyone expects a dovish stance, BTC pumps before the meeting, then dumps after even if Fed delivers what was expected. For Feb 19th specifically, market is pricing in a hold (no rate change). If that's confirmed, I'd expect mild volatility but no major directional move. The real catalyst would be unexpected language in Powell's statement about future cuts. Coingecko analyzed the BTC performance during FOMC here: [https://www.coingecko.com/learn/fomc-meetings-impact-on-crypto](https://www.coingecko.com/learn/fomc-meetings-impact-on-crypto) My play is usually to reduce leverage 24h before FOMC and wait for the dust to settle. The initial move could be a fakeout anyway.

ratpH1nk

IS that just semantics? Blackrock owns iShares. iShares buys the BTC and puts it in a trust. **Shareholders (Investors)** buy $IBIT and own the **shares** of the trust. When you buy a share of IBIT, you have a legal claim to a fractional amount of the Bitcoin held in the trust's vault. I am just asking because I want to make sure my understanding isn't wrong.

Tyranin

You're making the same point as me but you're saying the what, not the why. You're saying "It's known at bitcoin's inception". Ok cool but why. My comment, the protocol, a protocol is a set of rules that govern a system. The Bitcoin protocol governs how much Bitcoin is added to the ledger every \~10 minutes. That's why we know at any point of time how many Bitcoins will exist on the ledger. So "by the end of the year" is just an arbitrary point in time, because I'm making a comparison versus how USD gets printed and added to the ledgers of central and retail banks across the world. And it doesn't matter what date we pick, the end of this week, August 19th, The start of 2028. Whatever, it doesn't matter. So as of today there is \~19,995,000 BTC and by the end of the year there will be \~20,133,600 BTC. For USD there's $22.44 trillion to $22.51 trillion supply right now, but there is no protocol, by the end of the year there could $23 trillion, there could be $30 trillion. So from now until the end of the year 138,600 BTC will be added to the supply, but for USD no one can say. So what you've said is not wrong, you just haven't said anything that I haven't already said. Bitcoin is a protocol, therefore it is deterministic, therefore yes it is known since inception. but that's just a consequence of the wider statement that I already made.

Alarming_Present_401

Anyone else buying BCH now instead of BTC?

ThreeTonChonker

You can tell who has short positions in this sub and really doesn’t want BTC to go back up.

Alfador8

>People bought in to BTC because its supposed to be decentralized The network is decentralized. That's what people mean when they say Bitcoin is decentralized. If someone misinterpreted then that's on them for doing inadequate research. >not susceptible to manipulation. Literally no one credible ever claimed that. 

Bred_Slippy

They take a % fee based on its value, so BTC increasing overall usually increases their total fee take. E.g. if there were no more buyers and sellers and everyone in IBIT just held. the BTC USD price doubling would double their USD fee revenue from it.

AdSelect4483

While a lack of buyers could theoretically drop the value to zero, I believe there are permanent participants who act as a price floor. These include: Retail 'HODLers' & Whales: Individual investors who 'buy the dip' and long-term billionaires committed to the asset. Corporate Treasuries: Companies like MicroStrategy (MSTR), which holds over 700,000 BTC, and others like Metaplanet or Tesla. Crypto Infrastructure: Exchanges (like Coinbase) and service providers that rely on Bitcoin’s ecosystem for fees and subscriptions. Spot ETFs: Wall Street instruments that have institutionalized demand, with inflows exceeding $50 billion since their inception. Sovereign Nations: Countries like El Salvador and Bhutan that actively buy or mine Bitcoin, alongside the U.S. government, which holds nearly 200,000 BTC. Stablecoin Issuers: Entities like Tether, which uses a portion of its profits to regularly purchase Bitcoin as a reserve asset. Together, these entities provide significant liquidity and support, making a total collapse to zero a highly improbable scenario." (corrected text in English , using gemini)

InitialResponsible62

I agree. Unless and until BTC is widely accepted as currency by governments and businesses and people get paid in BTC, it’s not a “real” currency. Real currency is backed, BTC is backed by nothing other than people’s perception and conviction. I still think it’s a fascinating asset class and I hold 5% in my investment accounts and continually add as my overall investment portfolio grows.

BQbaobao

Lots of garbage on all these threads. Try to understand the mechanics of the alleged manipulation before deciding one way or the other as to whether you believe it. Jane street is accused of purposefully dumping BTC price to trigger liquidation cascades and buy back lower. And doing it like every day. Anyone who watches charts has seen something that looks a lot like this. How does this work? It’s simple. Let’s say that I know if I sell $100 of BTC at 100k price, it will trigger a whale liquidation at $99,995 that sends the price to $99,750. Then I buy the same amount of BTC back at 99,750 costing me only $99.75. And I pocket the 25 cents if profit, minus a few cents for trading fees. Now imagine doing this with massive amounts of BTC and being able to swing the price by a lot more. And doing it at the same time every day so others can jump on the bandwagon and push it down even further. And even holding short positions behind the scenes 1) to hedge the longs you hold when you buy back and hold until tomorrow, and 2) because you are sucking the life out of the market and can cash in these shorts big later. #1 above is so important because if they are hedged, they can hold larger and larger long positions to fuck with the market. It’s not without risk, of course. But clearly it’s paying off for them so far. Why does this work? Because all you motherfuckers using high leverage on perpetual futures. If the leveraged liquidity wasn’t so rampant, this manipulation wouldn’t work. I can’t believe even after the tens of billions of liquidations in the past few month, it just keeps stacking up. blame Jane Street all you want. If this is true, they are pieces of shit who deserve the worst. However, in any market, someone will always take advantage of free money by preying on retail like this. Just be educated and stack BTC - in the long run, supply mechanics will inevitably push price back up. Last thing. I fucking wish saylor would sit on $5B of cash, wait for this fuckery, and then bankrupt these manipulative fucks by spot buying, single handedly forming a bottom, and sending the price to the moon via short squeeze. The generational play is literally right in front of him. Wish he would see it.

Alfador8

Yes, but liquidity cascades go both ways so we wouldn't get such violent upside swings either. That being said, I think there are some large capital allocators who are turned off by BTC's volatility so having fewer wild swings might entice more capital into the asset. 

Inevitable_Pin7755

If it’s a small amount and you’re just testing the waters, Coinbase is fine. It’s simple, easy to use, and you’re less likely to mess something up while you’re still learning. Early on the biggest risk is usually user error, not the exchange itself. Once it becomes real money to you though, cold storage starts to make more sense. Not your keys not your coins exists for a reason. Exchanges can freeze accounts, pause withdrawals, or change terms. Also your actual BTC is not FDIC insured, only the cash balance is. Public company does not mean zero risk, it just means regulated risk. Plenty of regulated companies have still had issues. If you plan to hold long term and you actually believe in Bitcoin, self custody is part of that mindset. Best middle ground is buy on Coinbase and move to a hardware wallet once it’s an amount that would genuinely hurt to lose. Just make sure you understand backups and seed phrases properly. Losing access yourself is worse than trusting an exchange. I write a lot about building wealth with BTC and investing without being reckless. If you’re getting into it properly and want realistic takes, my newsletter’s in my profile.

Caelxn

It went out the window as soon as paper BTC became a thing - this is the 2nd edge of the sword people were worried about when ETF filings were getting approved. BTC on-chain however *is still decentralised.* Buy it on-chain, keep in cold storage, hold for <x> years, win.

Doritos707

Everything in this world is subject to manipulation by the elites that have access to BILLIONS of fake fiat at their disposal. BTC is no different.

ThreeTonChonker

It takes a special type to declare a bear market with old graphs when BTC is likely to push back towards 80k. Jane Street is that you? Getting scared?

Ms_Freckles_Spots

Thanks for this discussion. All of us that understand the ‘Why’ and ‘How’ of BTC need to be able to explain it to others. It would be good if each of us could know our audience’s and be able to explain it to different groups at their level. I like how this explanation starts with pointing the flaws of fiat money. Over history there are many instances where Nation’s money became worthless and ‘the people’ suffered while the power were able to hedge. I think you could add to this explanation a bit about how BTC is built on a non-fungible mathematically logic which keeps it discreet. Then you need to mention a bit about the block-chain and its role as the ‘keeper of transactions’ so that we do not need a banker to manage.

jett1964

I held on to .4 BTC so I’m still cheering it in.

Dear-Director-6043

It’s just insane to me you could actually invest your own money and think blackrock is buying/selling BTC.

davie18

Did you miss this part or something? > But either way, of course I agree it’s awful as a currency if the price is volatile in either direction. Which is exactly why I said crypto in general and also BTC aren’t good to use as a currency. In fact I said they are ‘horrible’. Like what are you even talking about? I never said that something that ‘rapidly declines’ in value is a good currency, I literally said the opposite if you read the above. /facepalm

TheAbouth

This is extremely risky debt stacking, not just investing anymore. You’re basically multiplying exposure using loans on top of loans, and it only works as long as BTC keeps behaving nicely. One sharp drop, liquidity crunch, or delay in refinancing and you’re stuck with real debt that doesn’t care about crypto prices. If you’re going to keep using leverage anyway, at minimum keep loan to value conservative, assume a 40–50% BTC drawdown, and avoid relying on short term refinancing to stay solvent. Personally, I prefer platforms like Nexo because the LTV monitoring and risk controls are clearer and easier to manage.

soks86

Lots of people make money on the drop. This is a commodity, not a security, there is no "manipulation" beyond buying, selling, and duping folks with "news" about it. Besides, if you're in BTC and you make money on the drop you're probably buying more BTC to HODL somewhere in there.

gqnish1

What a crock. People bought in to BTC because its supposed to be decentralized and not susceptible to manipulation. Well that pretty much went out the window

tribepride25

As others have said, funds are not insured in Coinbase. They can go bankrupt tomorrow and your BTC is gone

inShambles3749

Lmao I'm good with BTC, eth and XMR mate. I know who will be aide lined - again. And it's not me

u_spawnTrapd

If you are just dipping your toes in with a small amount, leaving it on Coinbase for a bit while you learn is pretty normal. It is simple and you do not have to worry about seed phrases on day one. That said, the whole point of BTC is self custody. Once the amount starts to matter to you, a hardware wallet is worth the learning curve. You do not have to go all in immediately. You can start small, move a test transaction, and get comfortable with it. Ask yourself one question. If Coinbase froze withdrawals tomorrow, would you be stressed? If the answer is yes, you probably already know which direction you lean.

GettingFasterDude

Cold storage, always, always, always. Just don't f it up. Start with small amounts until you're perfect with it. Leave your BTC on Coinbase and you'll be sorry. Switch to River or Strike. Coinbase is a sh|t-coin casino. Avoid them like d'ck cancer.

Ok_Celebration_4412

What people forget: it was never about the price but how may you can accumulate at the right price. Everyone will get their BTC at the price they deserve.

davie18

When did BTC do at 8.5x? This sub is honestly which trash. The quality of posts and discussions is just so bad. Does anyone know of any subs to actually have quality discussions on crypto in general or BTC specifically?

AutoModerator

Post is by: Capable-Inspector660 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1rfa1wm/ha_senso_giocare_su_ethbtc_per_accumulare_più/ Ciao, sono nuovo nelle crypto e nel trading. Sono giovane e col semplice desiderio di aumentare anche di poco il patrimonio invece che tenerlo fermo sul conto. Credo nelle crypto e al momento ho \~400€ in BTC e \~600 in ETH (stake). Vedo il primo più come una riserva di valore e il secondo come un investimento equity style perché credo nel progetto e in una futura esplosione di prezzo. Guardando un po’ i vari indici su kraken pro mi sono fissato con lo spot ETH/BTC e ho pensato: ha senso trasformare BTC in ETH quando il rapporto è basso e fare il contrario (ETH>>>BTC) quando si alza? In questo modo userei la forza di uno per compreare più dell’altro e sfruttare l’oscillazione del valore per ricomprare più dell’uno per comprare più dell’altro. Sostanzialmente giocare sulla fluttuazione del rapporto fra prezzi per piano piano aumentare la quantità di coins sia di uno che dell’altro senza immetterci un euro. So di non avere scoperto l’avqua calda e che questa cosa probabilmente la fanno già tutti nel trading. Ma essendo nuovo ho dei dubbi su quando effettivamente riesca ad aumentare il capitale di crypto in questo modo. Non so calcolare (più che altro per pigrizia) quando potrei guadagnare con sto giochetto. Per dire: una settimana fa il rapporto stava a 0.028, ora è a 0,0303. Aveva senso convertire BTC in ETH prima e riconvertire ETH in BTC ora? e poi, a fronte di un nuovo abbassamento, ripetere il giochino. Cosa ne pensate? Ha senso o è una perdita di tempo? (considerate che non convertirei ogni volta tutto il capitale. starei sui 100/200 euro di monete da convertire) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

National-Product5781

You’re not wrong to question it. This sub treats BTC like religion sometimes. If you’re unsure, size down, self-custody what you can, and stop staring at charts. Conviction beats vibes.

Vester_Crypto

I doubt this will ever happen I will try to not over complicate this with technical terms but The 21M cap is basically hard-coded into Bitcoin. Every computer running the network checks and makes sure no one can create more than 21 million BTC. If someone tried to cheat, the network would reject it. More like the consensus mechanism on which bitcoin is built

GIGAbtcHodl

The more you hold, the more you will be surprised what BTC is capable of

lukewarsius

I completely agree that the system is broken, however I do not agree that BTC is the obvious solution. It might be, but it certainly doesn't have to be. And however much I "learn" about BTC, this conclusion will not change.

Silent_Draft190

In what world is 0.1 BTC worth 15 Mil ??

Osiris_The_Gamer

I cannot help but to laugh at this, given BTC is higher than the Dow Jones Industrial Average I am not worried in the slightest

Archophob

>Of course there is a lot to learn about the current financial system, but that's independent of BTC as of now. Given that the current financial system is the reason why Satoshi started the blockchain in the first place, i would not see it as "independent".

Able-Juggernaut1224

No man, this is the best time to leverage. I second mortgaged my house. I can prob buy 3 or 4 BTC at these prices. I think realistically it’ll go back to 120K by end of this year. The reason is a lot of my friends discussing and they believe the same. 2030 it’s not that hard to believe it can go to 1M per coin.

Jealous-Reindeer-610

purchase 15 million BTC for 0$

scintillatingsin

For sure, US500 has yet to correct…which has a massive impact on BTC.

FunnyNo8982

I don’t understand what people have in mind before they write those comments 😩, BTC CANT go to zero ….. for many reasons … lost wallets … destroyed wallets … vanished wallets… satoshi’s wallet… investors wallets and I can continue write more …

Apolo_reader

Go on with my life. BTC is only 2% part of it

garand_guy7

Hi, ATH buyer here! I started DCAing in at around $109k because that's when I learned about bitcoin vs. FIAT. I'm not worried, I'm not treating BTC as a stock, it's to go against fiat. I'll keep buying at it's next ATH also

Bulky_Description579

That 53M number smells like marketing math to me. Here's what they're probably counting: \- Someone who panic-bought $100 during the 2021 peak and sold at a loss \- College kid with $20 in BTC from a sign-up bonus \- Your uncle who "invested" in 2017 and can't remember his password \- Same person with accounts on Coinbase, Binance, and Cash App or any other exchange or something like that.. The actual reality in the US, is maybe 1 in 15-20 people actively hold Bitcoin. Not 1 in 6.

ReceptionSmall9941

Yeah, cross-asset correlation has gotten much tighter whenever macro or big AI headlines hit risk sentiment. It feels less like “crypto vs stocks” now and more like one liquidity regime where BTC just has higher beta.

Bulky_Description579

Congrats! That's a solid win, and more importantly, you actually took profit instead of riding it back down like so many people do. The 'what if I held longer' thing will haunt you forever. But you made money, learned the cycles, and now you're back in with experience. That puts you ahead of 90% of people. For the new buyers reading this: The key takeaway isn't just 'hold longer', it's understanding that Bitcoin moves in cycles. \- Buy during fear (like 2022-2023 bear market) \- Hold through doubt (the long boring middle) \- Take some profit during euphoria (don't need to catch the exact top) \- Rinse and repeat For some people, their strategy is different, they stack BTC directly AND mine Bitcoin. Why? Mining gives you ongoing accumulation regardless of price action. You're cost-averaging in real-time (mining sats every day). If BTC dips, you're still stacking... if it rips, your mined BTC appreciates Diversifies your entry points. This is not for everyone (requires cheap power and dealing with hardware), but it's another way to build a position beyond just buying and holding. Either way - welcome back.

Klobbcock

So…is BTC dead or “long-living”? 🤔

temps5959

Great insight there, my one question though (playing devils advocate) is - when these wealthy people want to move their money across borders anytime, this is only really useful if they can use/spend their BTC like a proper currency. We are so far off that i feel and unless they offramp into fiat in a country that doesn’t impact capital gains tax or similar, what’s the real incentive of doing so?

CyroSwitchBlade

Right before BTC options and futures trading was approved on the CBOE back in 2017 I wrote my doctoral dissertation about how large hedge funds and other types of companies were going to be doing this sort of shit.. its kind of nice I guess to see that it looks like I was pretty much right about it all.

FamiliarDivide9935

Agreed with diminishing returns but diminishing corrections is tbd as BTC is still a risk on asset class and is now positively correlated with equity markets, where a dip in equity markets could cause further downside on BTC price movement.

temps5959

Great insight thanks, and I think where I was coming from on this more so, is that the incremental increase in BTC’s price each cycle is reducing each time. No one is likely even gonna 4x or more their investment in one cycle alone, so the appeal to new investors is lower and less enticing. Feels like the ETFs dipped their toe during the uptrend in price but will be way more cautious this time round. Again just my slightly uneducated take, but I don’t think we see the same level of absolute greed that we’ve seen before but as we all know - no one knows..!

OutrageousCourse4172

Miners don’t sell BTC reserves to survive, they reduce the rate of mining if they aren’t making a profit which reduces supply. The whole point of the mining is to regulate price fluctuations to some extend.

Express-Economist-86

Idk there’s more and more big players jumping in. Institutions are a going to take several years to get all settled in, but they’re laying the groundwork. I’ve lived long enough to see the price of everything goes down when measured in Bitcoin, inflation is that bad. Been stuck on this math: 7.9B global population, 21m BTC evenly distributed = 0.0027BTC each (under $200 right now). I know some is lost, not everyone has internet, it’s not all mined, just roll with it for now. 22m Americans own Bitcoin. 24m Americans are Millionaires, out of 80m Millionaires, globally. So if these guys get tired of dealing with real estate (renters, taxes, money tied up), realize there *really is only so many* Bitcoin, and want to take their money anywhere anytime across borders… each one of them have to essentially buy their little 0.0026 BTC from me, every time I surpass that number. So when Strategy is just hoovering them at double the rate they can be mined, massive institutions getting in position… I’m pretty comfy just getting my DCAs in. They’ll want it, they just don’t know it yet.

lukewarsius

Genuine question: What is there to "learn" about BTC except the basic concept that anyone with some basic logic can understand within 2 hours? Of course there is a lot to learn about the current financial system, but that's independent of BTC as of now.

KateR_H0l1day

It’s amazing how the Fear & Greed Index works, those fearful now and coming down from $100K will be the same ones will FOMO in again as the index turns to Greed. There mind will tell them to jump on the bandwagon again for fear of being left behind. Their fear of it dropping and/or taking profits (greed) will mean their late selling, because it’s human nature. On the other hand, many in the ETF spaces are experienced investors, and they will set limits for selling and buying. This unfortunately causes the domino effect, especially when it’s dropping, so that the legs of the drop triggers cascading selling without them thinking too much. Yet growth will continue to cause FOMO, and greed will attract many of these ETF buyers if the analysts are Bullish on how far can BTC reach in the next Bull Market. Just some musings from a random internet stranger 🤷‍♀️

scintillatingsin

Why wasnt the top as high as it should have been? BTC clearly hit a macro trendline at 125k. Why i opened a short. BTC has given diminishing returns as market matures The same as giving diminishing corrections.

scintillatingsin

Well, been in crypto since 2016 and heavily looked at past data as one does. Its all about connecting dots. I shorted 125k (still running) I also shorted when BTC lost the weekly 100EMA at 85k because past data showed BTC nose dived when it lost it in 2018 and 2022, both after cycle Tops.

DRAGULA85

People are responding to you as if a whole coin is mythical. I just assume this subreddit is full of whole coiners but seems like it’s people with $600 worth of BTC