BTC

tenor_tymir

BTC won’t mind though, tiktok next block

Shazvox

Oof... I hope you at least had some use of that BTC before you lost it, like pay off loans etc...

Honest-Run7036

This is far more effort than to be considered “lazy.” BTC security should get easier through time but instead it is getting harder.

sumtib

Some guy wrote about how he lost 18+ BTC, damn, I would freak out if I have lost even just $100 bucks

StacysMom-_-

Facts. That's why BTC is a long term investment. When those old people die who gets the inheritance and where does some of it go?

CODE_HEIST

the dangerous part is measuring $100 per day while the grid is carrying an open directional loss. separate realized grid profit from total equity including inventory. then replay a one way move like BTC's 2021 or 2022 legs with your exact leverage and stops. a month of range trading cannot price the regime that kills a grid.

Funk010

O wow... and someone once called me stupid to have my BTC on different HWW's. If i read these stories i feel much more confident that in these cases not all will be stolen.

Porcellanidae

I believe it is somewhat easy for the bad guys to guess your seedphrase. But having it in multi sig it wont be as easy, as they need to guess two seeds which pairs with yours. However, considering that those seeds are from a selected group and are at risk, I wouldnt wait too long to move these. Especially now that the entire world knows there is a vulnerability, so all hacker groups from over the world might be trying to obtain some BTC this weekend. 

NotASpanishSpeaker

What's the passphrase? Let's see if it's secure? Just kidding. I would just move my BTC our of anything from this company.

Azurebbit

I'm guessing not - I've yet to see an instance in this outbreak where somebody lost BTC that did either of those two things.

TheresNoSecondBest

If you were to immediately spot BTC leaving on this app or any watch wallet, it would already have at least one confirmation. I don't this any watch wallet is monitoring all mempools in the world for transactions waiting for the miners.

Heavy-Syrup-6195

That works but you can also buy BTC through Fidelity. You can then choose to activate your BTC wallet with them so you can make transfers in or out. Same as Coinbase, RH, Gemini, etc - except it’s Fidelity.

MorgulKnifeFight

Thank you this is great information. I will look into MARA slipstream. I didn’t even think of an attacker front-running my tx when moving the BTC. I won’t have access to my wallets for at least a week.

Lavayo

Also: The ETF coins (if they are not paper BTC), also are not better secured than the best security a individual can reach. Hopefully, not that you can verify.

bdemon40

I don't have a crystal ball as to whether BTC will save the world so we can all dance around Christmas trees, holding hands. Government and big finance are moving into the space, whether we like it or not, but the one thing they can't do is control the network and start deciding who gets to make transactions, raise Bitcoin supply over 21 million, etc. (No doubt they'll try, though.) Can't say that about Fiat.

sumtib

Holy shit, you have to be kidding who has even 1 single BTC without using multisig and passphrase

bdemon40

1. How do you know Blackrock is holding your BTC? Maybe they're just taking your money and saying it's Bitcoin. (Yeah, you can read their prospectus and learn Coinbase is holding their BTC...but they don't provide a public address for us to verify). 2. If the government decides to take control of BTC held in public accounts, giving you dollars in exchange, you can take your self custody BTC to another country, flipping them off as you board the plane. 3. Financial freedom is taken for granted in First-World countries, but others are finding real opportunities in overcoming economic and human rights issues with BTC. But hey, it's totally understandable to put your trust into an ETF. The stuff gets complicated has a lot of responsibility. Do it helps you sleep best at night.

rambi2222

I mean if he owned $1.2 million BTC he must obviously be quite wealthy. What are the chances 100% of his money is tied up in BTC, that wouldn't be a good idea. At least I hope he has other money haha.

OldHamburger7923

I bought BTC on fidelity and moved to my wallet. I wouldn't move to fidelity because of their fees being higher than Coinbase (last I checked). I would still prefer self custody over any exchange.

MorgulKnifeFight

One issue with the IRA is moving the BTC off the current address is considered an early withdrawal. It has to be coordinated with the IRA (Unchained in my case)

Gsw-

Would you ever consider moving some BTC to Fidelity? Saw a few other comments in this thread about it. Some pros and cons for sure, but in terms of security it seems decent.

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WeCanTripleIt

Fidelity (non-ETF) is the solution. You wouldn’t hold cash savings at home, so why self-hold BTC?

creative_usr_name

The Bitcoin protocol is and was fine. One very small company screwed up their implementation. 850,000 BTC was lost at MtGox, this seems like it will be about 0.01% as big a loss.

LazyLifeguard

DING DING DING. It's exhausting to read all these uneducated comments since yesterday. You just stated one of the most obvious things since inception of BTC.

MajorAnamika

You got the BTC by paying actual money for it. And for your buddy to use it, he has to convert it into actual money. You could have saved two tedious steps by simply sending him money.

Lavayo

Sure. I have no real concept of the related cost doing it. If it's costing a fraction of the BTC they already got they will do it.

Ok_Plastic5399

Damn, I hope you had long ago diversified most of it and that's all that remained in BTC.

Ucanthandlelit

17.5 years BTC has been out and

Illustrious-Boss9356

In some cases you can't but what you can do with fiat that you can't do with Bitcoin: 1. Put a hold on the transaction (wires take longer than BTC block confirmation). 2. Blacklisted from banking systems 3. Customs physical checks for cash, if not declared (most countries require you to declare cash above $5-10k when entering a country) 4. If the bad guys steal all the cash, the good guys can print unlimited cash to give themselves thus retaining the power for the good guys. Can't do these with Bitcoin.

K42st

ETFs are still backed by BTC so I don’t get why it defeats the purpose, BTC is a buy and sell market period.

585463

What’s the purpose of BTC if everyone simply buys the ETF?

carsonthecarsinogen

Lmao I just sent my buddy BTC bc I owed him money. Your entire comment is now false… use your brain

NewHope13

Sounds like the BTC low is close.

We_are_all_monkeys

>500 BTC is only worth about $300k What the fuck kind of math are you doing? https://mempool.space/address/bc1qq85v2c926eg6pgxhwp6q7lf6cnsz80qs3fcu9r

MakCapital

Then don't buy into the security of software with niche market share or use insured ETF providers. The value is in having the options, but not everyone needs to use every option. We're talking less than 1k victims so far with a half a billion people likely directly exposed to BTC and even more when you consider non-direct through indexes and retirement funds. Everything will be fine. People will quickly forget about this, and security will improve. Victims will sue. Coldcard will need recovery and possibly restructioning. World moves on.

BlazingPalm

I see your point, but you def touch the pristine BTC capital to convert it to interest bearing instruments. Federal interest rates can change and impact your capital. True inflation can outpace 5%. A lot can also go wrong with this scenario, but yes, way way less risk.

585463

Honestly… Because there is nothing in it for me if I had spent the time. Time > BTC.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Then sell your BTC and go buy something else 

NoInterraction

He united multiple scattered government wallets into one and said gov will never sell BTC but will trade with the shit coins. Basically like doing disk fragmentation. He blamed previous government for selling some crypto assets before the pumped up ATH while having the hindsight in his pocket. Then everything went underwater but I'm sure he'll find ways to pump us his dickus. I guess he added some clarity in the legislation but it doesn't seem to have benefited the community much. The main concern, which is the usefulness of this technology, has not really registered on his radar, while I think the previous administration was mostly trying to see things from that perspective.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Not knowing how something works isn’t the same as ease of use. Credit cards took about 50 plus years for saturation and decades of iteration to make it less complex for the average person to use. BTC isn’t getting this level of exemption because people for some reason just want it to already be user-friendly from the start and that’s just not how things work. 

Abject-Stretch-1187

That’s not convenience but efficiency. BTC isn’t hard for the sake of being hard, you must’ve not know what the early seed phrases used to look like. 

WeCanTripleIt

Fidelity now offers (and holds for you) actual BTC. That’s what I have. I’m not talking about any ETF

Difficult-Repair1295

As Bitcoin Maxi this is why I never trusted Bitcoin Maxi's. Fuck Cold Card and Coinkite and everyone who shilled this shit. So sad to see people life savings whiped out. I said ever since the ETFs came out. If you have been in BTC for over 10 years. You can't afford not to diversify your custody. This shit is hard even for an old school person. Have some in cold storage, have some through ETFs IBIT and FBTC even there diversify custody. I even have some sitting in the Vault on Coinbase (I know I don't like them either but I like this feature I've been using it since 2015) which requires two email to remove and a YubiKey.

thats_gotta_be_AI

They swept accounts with minimum 0.15 BTC by the looks of it

fuckswithboats

500 BTC is only worth about $300k -- Coinbase has paid out like half a billion dollars in penalties over the years or something insane. They've lost way more than 500BTC LOL

Ketroc21

I'd go as far as to say, it's the best way to buy BTC. Some purists want it for its original purpose, but most nowadays just want to own it to see a green line go up, then eventually cash out. In that case, you don't need to actually own the coin in a wallet.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Yup they had customers who actually deposited BTC with them as well. Some customers bought BTC but they never really got BTC but BTC on paper instead the funds were misappropriated. FTX was everywhere in 21-22 until they collapsed.

Cryptizard

It’s not a complicated trail, it’s simple. You just don’t know where it went. A bunch of people send 1 BTC (can be whatever amount but it has to be the same for all people) each to a mixer address and then the mixer sends back the same amount that you deposited out to your new wallet. Since it happens in one big go, only you and the mixer know which input went to which output.

iownreddit0690

Everyone always says if you don't have the keys, its not yours! Lmao well that didn't age well! At least exchanges will be held liable for something like this and it will be replaced! OP that really sucks, I feel you though I lost 400BTC from the early days, from pure ignorance. Its in a land fill in AL

Str8CashHomiee

Honestly if you’d off yourself you probably have too much of your money in BTC

ContentBlackberry0

Have you seen a post so far saying Coinbase was hacked of 500 BTC? I’ll give you the answer nope. Certain type of People need to hold on exchanges as they can not handle self custody.

Fun_Floor_9742

amazing how people manage to have 18BTC and this. LOL, sorry bro but really? you could have been living your best life. Instead you are, well i hope you are not broke but sounds like it maybe. miscalculated, thats only 1M but still point stands I hope you have money elsewhere or are young

Abject-Stretch-1187

They actually did have some and later just never actually bought any BTC for clients who bought BTC from their exchange. 

ilikeplayingthisgame

I can see a catalyst for another ATH starting with favorable fed policy. Clarity Act can be the start of that. But I'm as bearish as I've ever been on BTC.

RetiredAvocado

Aaahkahualleee, if you were to immediately spot BTC leaving you could hurry up and submit an RBG transaction to send BTC to your own wallet before the other one confirms. Miners will take your fat fee transaction first.

Impossible_Bug1264

There’s always going to be a back and forth between- but hackers will always be one step ahead as they always have. it’s my personal opinion that BTC/crypto will crash horribly because of this. It’s clearly not secure.

WeCanTripleIt

Yes, Fidelity holding the BTC.

matthew19

You’re talking about fidelity crypto holding BTC and not the etf right?

OldHamburger7923

> Ledger leaked customer info their tech didn’t fail leading to losing all your BTC Ledger added seed export into their firmware after saying seeds couldn't be exported. Placed that feature behind a paywall and asks us to trust them. Even if you don't subscribe to the service, there is now a pathway in the device to export the seed, if it is exploitable or not will be seen in the future, but i have no reason to use a device with that feature attached. And since its closed source, who knows what else its doing.

JunkBondJunkie

I was tempted to move my BTC to fidelity mostly as a reserve asset on the books when I buy rentals. Might be a good idea .

Plus-Fuel8495

It'll never be the most expensive Reddit post ever; don't forget the guys who posted over a decade ago who say they sold out on BTC when it was in the triple digits

matthew19

What’s wrong with fidelity crypto holding BTC? It’s not an exchange.

Silent-Hornet-8606

Yeah you are not wrong. I'm 55 and although I've been involved with BTC since 2016 I'm starting to struggle with some aspects of it. And I'm probably more tech focused than many people my age. I can't even imagine how someone who is in their 70's or 80's would start these days.

RetiredAvocado

Words have nothing to do with this situation. They are a method for people to create backups. They deterministically recreate a list of keys. The address is created from a public key which is created from a private key. Every address has its own private key. Private key is a just a big number. But not infinitely big. So between 1 and "huge number" there is a number that is a private key for some address with your btc in it. When created randomly the choice of numbers is humongous. But when created with poor randomness you get a "weak" key. The coldcards created some keys that are some numbers within a billion, instead of quadrillion quintillion, for example. Someone with rented GPUs checked those billion weak keys over time, found the ones that had a corresponding address with BTC, saved them, set up transactions to drain them and then pushed them out to bitcoin network over a short span. They knew it will be seen. They knew it will be in investigated. They knew they had to do it fast before the world catches on.

PheelGoodInc

Terrible to hear. Use multi sig if you have any significant amount of BTC.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Yah your perspective is dumb unfortunately as I’ve stored BTC for the same amount of years as well. Here’s perspective, unless you don’t believe in tech, then as more people adopt BTC then it’s only natural that there will be more hw or better ways to store BTC in self custody just as much as some will use the ETF or exchanges. Thinking self custody will just stop growing or cease to exist is just wishful thinking. There will be ETFs or exchanges in the future that will wreck holders and push more adoption of hw and vice versa. This isn’t even a theoretical statement as it has already happened, remember mtgox, ftx? 

Tokentactico

Halving math on this cuts both ways for miners specifically, worth separating from the "just sell BTC" question since a lot of people in mining threads conflate the two. If you're mining, the thing that actually forces the sell decision isn't price, it's your all-in cost per TH versus reward per TH. Take a rough mid-efficiency rig at 12 W/TH, $0.05/kWh electricity: that's about $0.0144/TH/day just in power, before hosting or maintenance fees. Reward per TH scales with (BTC price × block subsidy) / network difficulty. Difficulty has kept climbing basically every quarter this cycle regardless of price, so your reward per TH has been shrinking even in months where BTC went up. The April 2028 halving cuts the subsidy in half again. Unless price has appreciated enough by then to offset both the halving and whatever difficulty does between now and then, a bunch of mid-and-lower-efficiency hashrate goes cash-flow negative on electricity alone, not just unprofitable on ROI. That's usually what actually triggers hashrate coming offline and difficulty dropping, not sentiment. For someone just holding coin with no mining exposure, none of that math applies to you directly, it only matters insofar as a wave of miner capitulation can spike volatility short term. So the "time to sell" question really has two separate answers depending on whether you're holding the asset or holding the machines producing it. Worth being explicit about which one you are before taking advice from either camp.

OkProject2361

I’m trying to figure out a plan to systematically move my sats into the ETFs. I don’t like it, but I’m also not technical enough to keep up with this stuff. This is a huge blow to the BTC adoption ethos.

jonovision_man

Inflows? For every BTC cold wallet holder switching to ETFs there's going to be a dozen ETF holders dumping BTC entirely. It has not sunk in what this hack really means to most people - it strikes to the core of what BTC was meant to be. You can't trust anyone, so trust cryptography. Whelp...

Optionbulls

My BTC aren’t gone

b1mm3rl1f3

We got our black swan event this cycle and BTC hasn't dumped.. yet

iKarma_com

If you’re moving to a BTC ETF because Bitcoin seems too risky to hold in a wallet or exchange, why would you believe an ETF will be a good investment?

Impossible_Bug1264

And this is why BTC will ever be a legitimate currency.

Gooner_93

They might, if the wallet had a substantial amount of BTC that was transferred out but I doubt they are checking seedphrases with no activity at all, cause theyd most likely be wasting time.

AnnArbor-Armadillo

Yes, I've always got attacked in Bitcoin spaces for saying this, and probably will again. But I really believe that unless you are immediately trying to leave the country, I don't think there is a good reason for most people to hold all their BTC in self-custody.

PeteyPab305

Left and right? Dude its only happened **exactly 3 times** on a widespread, systemic level across the broader crypto landscape. That includes this one. It's not "left and right" its a rare oversight by a mostly unused wallet manufacturer. And honestly if you stay up to date with your knowledge base, you could easily escape this happening by using multisig wallets with passphrases. It's not that complicated, it's just human error plus laziness and surround a large sum of self-custodied BTC. Not to say OP was lazy but with that amount, you would think you would want something more than a coldcard single seed wallet to hold it.

Good_Extension_9642

In other words buy BTC ETF only now

Relentlessbetz

So is this the bottom guys? Feels like a similar FTX eff up. So the only real way to store BTC is memorizing your seed phrase and nothing else.

Numerous_Concept2468

My buddy had his wallet drained….16 BTC

WizofWallstreet

It’s well structured for many years to come, after next bull cycle for BTC maybe I’ll have a different opinion but so far they are pioneering something that people seem either reluctant or unable to understand. Watch and see

Fro3en_Cornchip

I certainly don’t think it’s as bad as people make out. People always refer to the mt gox scenario but that was back when BTC was starting out. Things are a lot different now, I feel pretty confident having holdings in my kraken account. But I also have most on cold storage. It sucks though, I would have felt very confident using a coldcard too… feel really bad for OP and the others who suffered losses.

Wisguy123

She is unfortunately following the orders of a foreign scammer, not buying BTC with her SS money to become wealthy someday. So sad to see this.

TalknTennisPodcast

At this point I’m just gonna buy a BTC ETF on my stock trading platform. This is ridiculous

cardpilled

Congrats, hope it shows up fast. India's card options being thin makes sense, most issuers just don't want to deal with the RBI/FEMA compliance overhead for a still-uncertain regulatory picture, so you end up with a handful of niche players instead of the big names. On pros/cons: the "don't have to think about conversion" thing you mentioned is honestly the whole value prop, but worth knowing what's happening under the hood. If it's converting your crypto to fiat at swipe, that's a taxable sale every time, doesn't matter how invisible it feels to you. If you're spending a stablecoin instead, there's basically no gain to report since the value doesn't move. Good idea to check which one your card is actually doing. On the "not sell your bitcoins" thing, that's actually live already outside India, just not common yet. A few cards let you borrow against BTC/ETH as collateral instead of spending it directly, so you keep the position and just pay back the loan later. No credit card version of that reaches India yet as far as I've seen, but it's the same idea people mean when they bring up that meme, and it does exist elsewhere. Nice find on the Poshvine rewards stacking, that's the kind of thing that makes a mediocre card actually worth carrying.

Good_Extension_9642

As soon as the BTC ETFs were created I stopped buying pure BTC, this way I sleep better at night

Training_Pickle_9513

just buy the coin man, you're overthinking the spread vs fees like it's gonna matter when BTC hits six figures the mental energy you're spending on this is worth more than the $100 fee or whatever spread you'd pay. get the full coin and enjoy having that milestone instead of watching it creep away while you DCA $11 a day

Cold-Fill927

*“Grandma I was arrested and my bail is 0.347 BTC”*

Aegonyx

First of all, with the recent BTC coldwallet incident, interoperability crypto coins will be very relevant. As people need to move their coins from - to different exchanges/wallets. A crypto project that I found very interesting is called Axelar, it has some weirdly insane partnerships, integrations (XRP, Stellar, Sol) etc.. it connects over 50 or 60 networks, and they're working on a "gasless fees feature". The project is weirdly undervalued when meme coins are doing 50% pumps. Please DOYR. That's what I found on my own. Good luck to you.

Aegonyx

For the last part of your post; Look for undervalued crypto coins. That's your only choice. Please avoid meme coins if possible. For example, with today's BTC coldwallet incident, interoperability will be crucial as everyone will be moving their funds from - to exchanges. A project I found to be very interesting, and weirdly undervalued is Axelar. It has insanely strong integrations, it connects dozens of networks, "secure" and they are implementing a "gasless transfer fee?" Either way, there are many promising projects out there, please DYOR.

Aegonyx

Guys, Interoperability coins are most likely next in the cycle after AI. For example, with today's BTC coldwallet incident, interoperability will be crucial as everyone will be moving their funds from - to exchanges. A project I found to be very interesting, and weirdly undervalued is Axelar. It has insanely strong integrations, it connects dozens of networks, "secure" and they are implementing a "gasless transfer fee?" Either way, there are many promising projects out there, please DYOR.

Aegonyx

Look for undervalued crypto coins. That's your only choice. Please avoid meme coins if possible. For example, with today's BTC coldwallet incident, interoperability will be crucial as everyone will be moving their funds from - to exchanges. A project I found to be very interesting, and weirdly undervalued is Axelar. It has insanely strong integrations, it connects dozens of networks, "secure" and they are implementing a "gasless transfer fee?" Either way, there are many promising projects out there, please DYOR.

Always_working_hardd

IIRC, theft of BTC is unfortunately not something you can turn into a vague positive with the IRS.

mcalibri

I barely trust BTC itself.

Aegonyx

For those in the red, I think after today's BTC incident, interoperability coins like Axelar will be very relevant/important. A lot of people will be moving their coins from - to exchanges, and for that they'll need secure and cheap interoperability services. Please DYOR.

LionRivr

Settle down bud lol. I’m not talking about BTC’s finite supply versus fiat currency debasement. I understand that side of BTC very well. However, I’m talking about self-custody of assets versus depositing with a bank. Including things like gold.

itreallydob

They haven’t tried cashing out yet. Every reputable exchange and service is watching the blockchain for incoming BTC from the attacker and will freeze funds. Law enforcement and blockchain intel companies are monitoring the attacker’s address and will trace the BTC where ever it goes. All that is to say it’s not over yet.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Don’t be daft. Those self sovereign citizens you mock are literally the reason why you’re able to buy and own BTC with the least amount of worry compared to how it was in the past. You guys literally didn’t realize how hw became a thing. Mt gox anyone? It’s a cycle, trusted custodians blow up with everyone’s coins, hw steps in to the rescue, now some hw mess up, we revert back but it doesn’t mean it’s over for hw. Don’t worry, you guys will find another reason to hate ETFs soon enough and then run back to hw. 

DontLook_Weirdo

While BTC is trying to be an asset and is treated as such, Eth is trying to fix how money transacts. ETH is a terrible performer in the sense that it's incredibly boring.. rarely moves up or down, but the tech is there and it'll implement. When it does, it'll take off.. but it's 100% faith in the tech because ETH is so very boring on charts.

eckstuhc

It’s “okay” today, but there will come a day when one of two things happen and it will be catastrophic reminder of why not your keys, not your coins: 1. Loss of keys, whether malicious or incompetence. Even large corporations have mess ups and they have to revoke certifications or re-issue cryptographic keys. Let’s just hope whoever you entrust has insurance and the capital to back up the loss. 2. Rehypothecation and fake shares. Right now a lot of ETFs are proclaiming 1:1, they buy BTC to match ETF inflows… but the rule is “like kind”, meaning cash if that can cover it. Additionally, if there’s any rehypothecation or synthetic shares, it’s skirting the 1:1 principle. We may not see it in our lifetime, but I guarantee you one day someone is going to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Look at what happened a few years ago with the specific video game resell store. The whole point of BTC is you cannot print more, and one day tradfi will learn this. Just make sure you are on the right side when that happens, because they’re going to make us poors pay for their mistakes, like always.