BTC

Bilatsibagya

You got greedy and went all in. BTC dipped and you got liquidated. Risk only what you can afford to lose between your entry and stop loss.

Background_Ebb_9241

Stay away from memecoin, get a job, DCA BTC

Top-Election-5365

Just wanted to pop back in, BTC currently at 80.8K as I'm writing this, we hit 87K and are back down. This is what some people were talking about, could go lower too. we might be kissing 80k goodbye, at least for now.

anneke_degraaf_74

Could be, though a smaller percentage drawdown from a much larger market cap can still mean a huge dollar loss. Diminishing volatility wouldn't automatically make BTC a safer bet.

Feriman22

I'm not trying to nail the exact bottom here. My rule-based BTC tracker hasn't changed regime yet, so I'm just waiting. If it does, Discord will ping me anyway.

zomerbk

The key missing piece is a reconciliation of BMN notes outstanding with the mining capacity, BTC produced, and investor payouts behind them. The articles raise questions, but I couldn’t verify an independent audit or a substantive Blockstream response, so I’d treat “Ponzi” as an allegation. If the business failed, noteholders and mining customers would face the direct losses; Bitcoin would keep running, though a large drop in hash rate could temporarily slow blocks until difficulty adjusts.

papatoshi

Start stackin! BTC on sale today

Fluid_Blacksmith560

Day trading in BTC? Why?

assembly_learner

I don't think your BTC is insured.

AutoModerator

Post is by: TheDTYP and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1x6abl8/do_you_think_its_the_right_time_to_buy_more_btc/ I'm not buying the "wait for the October bottom" thing anymore. Four-year-cycle folks circle October as the low, and people on reddit keep arguing about whether there's another leg down, but I've already been buying as if it keeps going. It was chopping around 80k for a bit. ETF flows bounce around, hot CPI pushes Fed hike odds up and you get a short dump, but the spot floor near 80k is still holding. I care more about the longer stuff: post-halving rhythm, spot channels still open, buyers showing up on dips. Waiting for a perfect low is too mystical for a beginner like me. I've been DCAing a bit of spot BTC on moomoo. I also bought some BTC upside event contracts on moomoo's prediction markets, same direction, small size. Not because I was hedging doubt. I think it still goes higher and I wanted both ways of saying that. Are you still waiting on an October bottom, or are you already buying for upside? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Submersed

Regarding your last sentence, could an attacker who has all of your info via data breach, and who gets your password (or calls in and convinces them they are you), and sim swaps you to get access to your phone, take all your BTC? Or are there protections in place that prevent moving BTC out, such as delays, a required secondary password, some other kind of authentication?

Treesh_Jancy

The guy from the Casper Association (Michael Steuer) made the best point imo. He thinks tokenized stocks will hurt the pure speculation coins but won’t kill BTC or ETH. He also says you should figure out what you actually own before buying one, like do you get voting rights and dividends, and what happens if the provider goes under.

Interesting_Loss_907

Just checked & compared for each time frame: going back exactly 1, 2, 3, 4…..15, 16 years. For 13 out of those 16 time frames, BTC outperformed the S&P 500. The only timeframe is where the S&P 500 outperformed BTC we’re going back 1, 2 or 5 years. Going back 3, 4, 6, 7+ years BTC beat any major stock index. And going back 7+ years it not only beat any stock index, it absolutely crushed them. Gains orders of magnitude greater. Seems to me the people most reliant on cherry picking dates are the detractors.

Rock_Strongo

Something with BTCs volatility is a really shitty hedge against normal levels of inflation. It's not as extreme as it used to be, but if you put your money in BTC to avoid 5% inflation over the course of a year it might lose 10% of its value the next day.

Interesting_Loss_907

Look at the ROI for BTC for the past 4 years & let me know what you find.

Interesting_Loss_907

Now do it for the past 4 years, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years & let us know if you see any pattern at all…? In case you did not notice it, or in case you were illiterate & unable to read the comment above, it was in response to another users comment that over the past six years BTC has performed “incredibly poor versus other assets“. He did not say over the past one year. Even if he had, it does not change the fact that over longer term periods BTC outperformed major stock index.

SalePrestigious6605

Not trying to be whatever, but I have no idea if I am profiting from BTC, I just keep buying and have faith that will not disappoint me 😂

Interesting_Loss_907

6 years ROI (since 10/14/2020): BTC: 7.2X (appreciated in value from 11.4K to 82K in 6 years. S&P 500 Stock Index: 2.2X BTC has far outperformed any major stock market index over the past 6 years, so truly do not really know what you mean when you say that BTC has performed “ incredibly poor vs other assets”…? BTC not only outperformed stock index is during that period of time but obviously outperformed holding cash in any normal interest bearing accounts as well.

King-esckay

I have done this via nexo Twice so far It depends on where you were at when you first bought I have done 2 loans despite the high interest I buy the interest charge in btc each month when the gain comes the interest only has paid off the loan I plan to do the same with the mortgage once the ratios work. You can buy a lot of BTC with no mortgage to pay. If it all goes belly up then the BTC will get sold I still have the assets purchased with the loan. Each time so far I have borrowed when BTC has been near bottoms.

sabrina-m-779

That works out to about $84.6k per BTC on average, assuming the $280m is the purchase price.

JGdc12

Originally? It was built as a faster, more efficient version of bitcoin, using a fork in the BTC code. Today? Absolutely no point, the big money moved on long ago

JGdc12

Originally? It was built as a faster, more efficient version of bitcoin, using a fork in the BTC code. Today? Absolutely no point, the big money moved on long ago

tscottn

lol at BTC current price it would hardly buy you a new truck, let alone a new life.. come-on man be serious

CatatonicMan

How about *Ledger* fund-raise some BTC for the victims. It was their fuck up, after all.

rickribera93

When BTC fees were too high, I used Litecoin. But this was before the time of ethereum tech.

2xfun

Bitcoin has all the fundamental properties to be a hedge agains inflation. But: \- It's still a young asset. \- It's market cap is still low. \- People still see it as a risky asset. \- Retail is full of instant gratification gamblers trying to time the market. \- The shitcoin storm of 2008 took a hit on BTCs reputation and the majority of the people can't tell the difference between ClownCoin and BTC. \- The average Joe e clueless about bitcoin and how the FIAT standard works. \- Idiocracy is taking over and critical thinking is dead.

Saintgein

Inflation goes up by 0.1% so chance on a rate hike of 0.25% goes up by 25%. This is the whole cry baby madness going on right now. Imagine a year or something ago, we had inflation going down a little, then getting a few rate cuts of 0.25%. And what happened? Barely anything. Just like now. BTC goes down because of liquidations, but tomorrow it will be game on as always, with these hikes already priced in. So i don't worry.

youcangotohellgoto

1 BTC far exceeds the average wealth of a human on the planet is an absolutely enough to "get started".

fittes7

Cause one is ownership and the other is rent I get it when people are renting houses cause they don't want to pay the full house price But renting BTC when you can have your own for the exact same price is dumb

RetiredAvocado

If it can't connect to anything it can't send bitcoin. Because my phone is connected to a lot of my life stuff on it I trust it, to a point. There are a couple wallets with some BTC. If that little amount of BTC disappears I won't go hungry, and it's a small price to pay to know the phone can no longer be trusted. Hardware wallets are still generally more secure than phone apps though.

Azreel777

Well I should start by saying I don't put anything in to BTC that I'm not willing to lose. It's an alternative savings method for me, much like money that gets put into retirement accounts. I don't spend it. I will if I need to, but my plan is to let it sit so maybe my kids get it someday.

usedmattress85

I mean to use an ETF to hold your BTC. Because you can hold a BTC ETF inside of a Tax Free Savings Account (TFSA) which makes all the Cap gains completely tax free. You can’t hold self-custody BTC inside a TFSA. So if you’re a Canadian and you have room in your TFSA, it’s crazy to me to hold BTC any other way other than an ETF

bananabastard

Self-custody is the benefit. You are the sole proprietor of your shit. I can access and move my BTC to anyone any time I wnat without permission from anyone.

Big80sweens

Bitcoin would be incredibly valuable in the event WW3 happens for this exact reason. In fact the price of BTC likely skyrockets in this event

oxxoMind

Why not ASST or MSTR ? If BTC goes up these 2 goes up as well

No-Librarian9605

I’ve been in the space for over a decade and I’m actually way less bullish than I have ever been. Predominately due to the concentration of big mining pools. Foundry and Antpool have way too much control and it may only get worse/centralized as BTC goes more mainstream. I hope I’m wrong as I view this as one of the safe havens from a fiat system collapse.

TheresNoSecondBest

Exactly 6.15 BTC for eternal riches and big titty bitches.

Upn8th

OP. Thanks for your reply! On a $BTC chart I made,bloke you, I have the same #, 37.4k, as the possible low but with no date attached to it. Have we since had an apparent break with the prior 4-year pattern? Yes, but it's still useful to know in case price gets there some other way, like in 2020 for instance.  Then, rather than clamoring around for where this falling knife may land, 37.4k if reached, would be recognizable as possibly meaningful. If instead, the pattern break (lack of a leg down beyond 58k, and instead a break above the down line from the 128k-ish ath. is where things changed) stays intact, the rest of it, so far, too, is intact.  With that said, if a decline does ensue, I have 70k in mind as a possible st target/support, and if so, which would still be within the continuation of the pattern as is currently taking place. Sorry that's  a lot of explanation and I should just post the chart, and think I will.  Thanks.

Porcellanidae

6.15 BTC ?

AutoModerator

Post is by: Weary_Present6464 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1x60424/does_buying_btc_back_in_stages_make_more_sense/ Trying to buy BTC back lower leaves me stuck between two choices: buy too early and watch it keep faling, or wait for a price that never comes. Buying back in stages seems like a reasonable middle ground, but I’d still want a reason for each purchase. Now I just place each BTC spot buy manualy on when my entry conditions are met and keep the rest of my USDT in reserve. If BTC climbs before the next entry, I may miss part of the move. Does buying back in stages help you manage that uncertainty, or does it just give you more entry decisions to second-guess? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

tscottn

I agree to a extent, we are still very early to the game, and only if you have enough BTC to start a new life and leave everything else behind does this senerio work. But if you own one or two coins or less that probably isnt a realistic option. Its easy to say do this or that, but half the people that say these things have no idea what it really entails and how hard it is to actually acomplish.

Good_Extension_9642

That's what everyone thinks, fortunately BTC always does what no one expects, my gut tells me we'll be above 90k by November, and I have a big gut :)

ellipticbadger

The story of this guy is more interesting than just that he was a scammer... He was a sort of self-aware, showman scammer who actually knew a fair amount about the domain. I'm not defending his actions - Hex was always clearly a ponzi scheme, but it was such an up-front and obvious ponzi scheme that it almost makes it hard to believe that anyone was involved who wasn't sort of playing along, like a game. Yes, he would do the "I'm so rich, look at my stuff, look at how crazy I dress" bits on his videos, but he would simultaneously mock that and narrate why he was doing it (to get views)... which made it kind of funny. And he would drop a fair amount of knowledge about the history of Ethereum and BTC while he rationalized how what he was doing was not illegal... Again, really not defending him - probably broke some laws (IANAL) but just for the history books - I am not the kind of person who follows crazy influencer scammers (nor would I have ever put money in Hex) but I did watch a lot of his videos and they were kind of fascinating :)

genius_retard

Yeah I would reserve mutisig multi vendor for my main stack and would not make transactions from that account very often. Even then it would just be to send some BTC to my spending wallet but yes I would need to be extra careful.

Dangerous_Reading665

He sold it everything for BTC

SimpleMoonFarmer

MSTR and many other stocks are dropping while BTC is just chilling. What's going on?

6DeliciousInches

BTC on chain is immutable immortal internet money and BTC etc is a price exposure instrument. The OG bitcoin purpose is that it’s money saved in your mind, IBIT is not in your mind it’s in a brokerage. Otherwise they are the same (minus fees on the etf)

VastJuice2949

I have a card with GoMining. Use it daily and it feels exactly the same as a bank card when I tap with my phone. Actually spending BTC and USDC feels good

jojorabbit11

I’ve talked to a lot of Bitcoin holders dealing with this exact problem, and there are a couple different ways people approach it. If you’re still looking for an estate attorney who actually understands Bitcoin, Ed Vergara is worth looking up. He did a session with us specifically on Bitcoin estate planning that I can share. The other option that almost never comes up in these conversations is Bitcoin life insurance. I work at Meanwhile, where the policy, cash value and death benefit are all denominated in BTC. So for the portion of your bitcoin that you ultimately want to leave to your family, the beneficiary can receive Bitcoin rather than having to figure out how to recover your seed. It can also work alongside a trust rather than replacing one. Happy to answer questions if useful.

awohio1

I was going to say that funds held at brokerage firms are protected by SIPC insurance... That is true for registered securities like stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc. But NOT for crypto. (Note SIPC insurance is not insurance against trading losses or loss in value of assets, only against losses by the the brokerage). I'd still say that Fidelity is way more capable of protecting coins than your typical BTC owner. There is also much better legal recourse in the event of a failure in their practices.

jorgerp86

I trust fidelity with my BTC

throwaway12three4

I moved all my coins to a Fidelity joint account for this reason. If something happens to me, my wife wont have to jump through hoops to figure out BTC.

MittenSplits

Dynamic = timing the market (which is what all of your questions revolve around) BTC makes all of its gains on the best 10 days of the year, and you'll never time them. Unless you're really interested in charting (and have a Bloomberg terminal), just do an actual DCA and hold it.

jasonslpt

Whatever the Fed does next, the CPI reaction so far looks like a long squeeze waiting to happen. Positioning near 82.0K: longs ~81.7K (~$144M), bigger stack ~80.2K (~$475M), shorts ~82.2K (~$155M). Leaning lower toward 80.2K. Proven wrong if BTC reclaims and holds 82.2K. The 100x hike-is-priced-in crowd is standing on a trapdoor. Not advice.

jasonslpt

For me it's when the long liquidation pools below get cleared, not when price bounces. Right now BTC is about 82.0K with ~$475M of longs stacked near 80.2K that haven't been flushed yet. Until that gets tagged or price holds above 82.2K, a bounce is just leverage reloading. A recovery I trust usually starts after the paycheck-sized 25x longs are gone. Not advice.

jasonslpt

Post-CPI map for BTC near 82.0K: the closest long pool sits around 81.7K (~$144M), and the real magnet is 80.2K (~$475M). About 75% of the last 24h of liqs were longs, so the crowd is still leaning the wrong way. I lean down into 80.2K first. Wrong if BTC holds above 82.2K, where ~$155M of shorts would get squeezed instead. Somebody's 50x rent money is parked right at 81.7K. Not advice.

AutoModerator

Post is by: WorstBGsystem and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1x5w7gv/cryptocom_scamm/ Anyone else experienced this: Price of BTC in there app on the chart 78k €, I sold and I was given price 73k€. 20 days later bitcoin fell down 5%, price on chart 74k€ I buy back for same money I sold earlier and I get much lower btc position… you sell high and they give you low sell rate. Scammers. Stay away !!!! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Vipu2

Security is about 50-50 depending how skills you are handling BTC and all its technicalities. But freedom to transact is 100% on self storages side. You could live in Russia or whatever other country and suddenly you dont have access to your ETF anymore for reason X or Y. When you want to do something with your "stack" of ETF BTC you will be asked many questions and take long time to do it. Want to buy something without your ID:s attached to it like VPN? Cant do that with ETF BTC

rodzm14

Best of luck and much prosperity with your 1 oz copper BTC. Not sure what youre trying to convey here but this is worth the price of 1 pz copper

izkornator

I feel for you. Proper self custody almost requires you to have a certain amount of IT knowledge yourself or by proxy with a very trusted party (son, relative, ...) A badly set up self custody solution is perhaps worse from a custody point of view than owning ETF shares in your stock account. This much I am prepared to admit. The Bitcoin ETFs are mildly poisonous to the overall ethos of Bitcoin though. Not personal security of custody but the overall network. I would not be so sure that Blackrock or Fidelity have any consideration for the best interests of the Bitcoin network in their operational strategies. I have often wondered if Blackrock (for e.g.) is really selling BTC into the market when there is a drawdown on the ETF shares. They are in a perfect place to snag BTC on the discount side of the market each time, and sell it back to ETF share buyers when demand returns. Not exactly moral behaviour IMHO but if I were them and discounted all my morals, I would do the same, or even hold onto them to co-opt the whole network gradually.

iz_raymond

Very good question. You will find out real quick why BTC will never replace Fiat bcos the community itself will treat it as form of payment

FeeParking4506

This only comes into play if you are transacting with BTC. And most folks are not transacting.

Patternhunter_dev

Bitcoiners always have that store of value in mind. On the other side, regular crypto outsiders don't even understand what Bitcoin is, friends and family around me don't have any crypto and just don't want to get into it. BTW, Jack Dorsey has Bitchat app, which uses offline mesh/Bluetooth tools to make decentralized data transfer work without the internet. The tech side is kind of solving the obstacle of sending BTC to each other off-grid. But I guess for people to actually be willing to use BTC as peer-to-peer money, its price has to become stable first, much like stablecoins without all that volatility

Xennenial

The ATH occurring before the halving was mainly due to the huge uptick in BTC ETFs and Tradfi money pouring in. In order for another ATH before the next halving, it would stand to reason that another BTC Tradfi product or trend would have to unfold.

InjectiveRocky

If you only want price exposure, an ETF makes sense. Actual BTC gives you control over your coins and lets you use them on the network, but that also means taking responsibility for security and backups.

Aggressive-Hall1913

Binance is shutting down all its mining pool and cloud hashpower services—a massive vote of no confidence in the sector. Combine that with a nearly year-long hash rate drawdown (something we’ve NEVER seen in BTC history), and it’s clear mining is facing its darkest hour. Over 95% of BTC is already mined. With the halving ~180 days away, miner revenue is about to take another brutal hit. We're fast-forwarding straight into Satoshi’s ultimate stress test: shifting miner revenue from block rewards to tx fees. The catch? Tx fees currently account for just ~1% of miner income. The shift is coming way faster than expected. But one truth remains: without miners securing transactions, Bitcoin cannot survive. ⛏️⚡️

Capable_Swordfish_30

Then network is working, it is possible to transact, but not to peg-out. This is taking way too long, but obviously they can't allow peg-outs until the 1:1 peg is restored, and there are still 600 BTC missing in the collateral side.

agnosticgnome

Hey guys. I'm just a regular dude with a lot of knowledge in computers. I do run on Linux and all kind of stuff. I'm manage networks, built dozens of computers, can debug mostly everything. Thing is, I never trusted whatever method to hold on your coins. Granted, I did not research extensively or never messed with wallets. So many horror stories, hack and what not. If I was forced to do so, I would go offline of course because but even then it's choose your poising. Major sites will always have better security than me but too much control over my shit. Offline, well... there's solid risks too. Yeah it's cool and all if you have 20K worth of BTC but large fortunes? Fuck all of this. So there's ETF and that's about it. So that's a major problem impossible to fix and then you go full circle and create BTC banks with regulations. I'm just telling what I think because people like me, we represent the mass. So that's why BTC is never going mainstream.

VettaQ

One measurement caveat on the dashboard trio: BTC.D falls for two very different reasons and only one of them is rotation. Stablecoin issuance grows the denominator, so dominance can bleed for weeks while alt USD prices go nowhere - pairing BTC.D with TOTAL3 in dollar terms rather than the ratio alone separates "capital leaving BTC" from "denominator inflation". TOTAL3 has the mirror-image flaw: new token listings keep getting added to the index, so part of its climb is supply growth rather than price appreciation. On point 2, the thin order book cuts both ways - the same thinness that prints a 100-200% expansion on the way in is the slippage you pay on the way out, and exit depth is usually worse because the momentum bots that chased the bid are already gone. The honest way to read a low-cap pump is entry depth minus exit depth, and most cycle retrospectives only measure the first one.

Awkward-Green-1653

What if quantum computing breaks all other codes? They are less safe then BTC

Honu_Daze

From my lamen understanding, you have to have 2 accounts w/ Fidelity. 1 as cash management (your interception account) & then you can open a Crypto account - as the latter requires the former for transactions. They do not permit only having a crypto account, as of this writing. BUT because I’ve come at it differently than you find yourself positioned - your BEST bets are: 1) to either head over to their sub, which they directly monitor & participate in to ask your question there 2) or better yet directly contact them & inquire - so they can provide the best & safest answer to you I began experimenting with my confidence in migrating to BTC back in 2021, shortly after Fidelity announced it would be in the crypto space. Having already been an account holder w/ Fidelity, I had gained some trust in their platform & overall the company’s ability to manage money. I then opened a crypto account through Fidelity and began to slowly stack sats. Entering into it w/ the knowledge that anything I invested I MUST be willing to never see again. After all it was a bet. All the while I furthered my education on what BTC is, how it works, and gained wisdom about this shiny “new to me” thing I was slowly rolling money into. Once enough knowledge had been gained I started minting coins (that I really wanted to not only see again, but wanted to make gains on). Its performance could not be denied, but the volatility certainly took psychological adjusting. I kept pestering Fidelity (with phone calls & on their sub) about *when* they would allow for coin transferring. As they kept hinting it was in their crypto “road map”. Inspired by my learning, I conceded to the belief of “not your keys, not your coin”. Yet the rabbit hole of learning about cold storage, pass phrases, keys doubled down w/ current & future threats w/ AGI, cold storage hacks, and the tightened security measures the latter demands, found me still keeping my BTC parked w/ Fidelity. In the last 18mo’ish Fidelity FINALLY rolled out the ability to migrate coins. As previously you’d have to liquidate your coins to fiat to move those funds. Hope this helps you. Fidelity uses cold storage for coin, and my guess is they have people who are more akamai than I w/ overlapping security protocols to keep users coins vaulted. It very well is a gamble, but my menopause brain occasionally stops me from putting my car keys in the fridge. So I have humbly recognized that I can not be fully trusted to manage actual cold storage keys/phrases and the like😂 Lastly as of this writing Fidelity does NOT allow you to assign beneficiaries to your crypto account. I have worked around this with my executor (my daughter) - who I’ve given authorized access to my fidelity accounts. On top of assigning TOD/POD in my other Fidelity accounts. So when my body dips out, she can move those coins probate-free & do as I’ve assigned her to do with them. I hope she keeps them in coin & doesn’t liquidate to fiat - but at that point it is hers & my other heirs to do what they wish with. That is if I don’t cash out & spend every last cent before i cross over to the next.😉

iLLuSion_xGen

My (big European) bank offers BTC but it isn't secured while money is secured up to €100k, you also can't transfer the BTC unless you sell it and they buy it again on an exchange so read the small letters when you buy BTC through your bank.

33halvings

Bro had almost 1 BTC and put it in a hot wallet. \*\*facepalm\*

GloryIV

I went looking. The real answer is complicated. There isn't insurance in the sense of any kind of deposit insurance. But there is the Fidelity Customer Protection Guarantee: [https://www.fidelity.com/security/customer-protection-guarantee](https://www.fidelity.com/security/customer-protection-guarantee) Under this policy Fidelity will reimburse you for losses that occur through no fault of your own. They do count it as a fault on you if you have not taken what they deem to be appropriate steps to keep the account secure and to quickly detect any losses. We're talking things like strong passwords, not sharing account access information, quickly reporting any evidence of fraud... It is unclear to me whether Fidelity is required under this policy to reimburse if they suffered a major hack involving BTC for many customers. I don't think they are required to - but I suspect they would just to preserve their reputation.

olduvai_man

Everything that's not just about BTC gets downvoted. Most of the recommended projects/bull-posts that I've seen here are for the same 2018/2021 altcoins that people are hoping will finally take off after all this time. There is vanishingly little content about newer projects and all of that has moved to X anyway. This place is mostly a ghost town and anything even resembling a coherent discussion gets downvoted and the participants just go elsewhere to chat about it.

jawni

so do people here actually follow what is happening on chain or look for new projects? Or is this sub now entirely comprised of "everything except BTC is a scam" type people?

Feralz2

This is not a problem for mass adoption, just no one bothers to make it easier than it is because people in this space are at least a little technical like most BTC holders, those who arent, they just buy the ETF. Things will get better, this is not a technology limitation, this is more of a UI problem that no one bothers to solve because the masses are not here yet, so its a catch 22, in any case, it will just get better. Dont forget 15 years ago you needed to be highly technical or need a CS degree just to send btc, how far have we come.

mediumprophecy

BTC holding up better than most alts is interesting, but I'd be cautious about assuming that automatically means another leg down for everything else. Funding, open interest and actual liquidation levels should provide more context. I follow the directional sentiment side on Moon too, and crypto is one of those markets where the crowd can change its mind extremely quickly.

FrequentBryant

The supply chain angle is what concerns me most, especially reports of tampered devices arriving before users even initialize them. I'd verify those incidents individually rather than assume every manufacturer has the same vulnerability. Moon gives exposure to Bitcoin price movements without owning BTC, but for actual cold storage I'd stick to verified firmware and trusted distribution channels.

absorbingunderdog_3

I get the appeal of earning something while waiting for the next Bitcoin rally, but the extra yield introduces custody and counterparty risks that people underestimate. Celsius and BlockFi are pretty good reminders. I use Moon for separate Bitcoin price speculation but that's different from lending out actual BTC. I'd be careful risking the underlying coins for a few percent.

ZedZeroth

> the biggest advantage of BTC, the self-custody option, is lost It's only lost for people incapable or unwilling to take advantage of that option. This is inevitable. You can't create a technology-driven automated self-governing financial network which is somehow accessible at its most fundamental layers to everyone on the planet. That's not how any technology works. The bigger point is that this option is not lost to technically-minded people, to financial institutions, nor to governments. So we have a novel financial system that entire nations (albeit not at the individual level) can use without reliance on other nations. In short, everyone *can* take advantage of self-custody, but the "part-time players" (regular folk who just want to earn and save money) will use third parties just like we all do for everything else (mechanics, doctors etc). As with all tech breakthroughs, bitcoin "matters where it matters most". It's most powerful innovations *are* available to the people most in need of it. It continues to evolve into exactly the system Satoshi intended and it will continue (albeit gradually) to change the world.

Jenna_Money

I’m looking to do something similar, but at the beach. My preference is someone who will take BTC as part of the transaction and not cashing it out first. My realtor found two that were interested, but both wanted it at a discount to account for any volatility between then and closing. Still looking at this point.

brando2131

>Lol well that makes no since then because more and more are using ETFs so that means BTC is becoming more pointless every day and the price should go to $0 eventually then since its becoming pointless (according to you). Yes... that's true... its becoming more and more pointless as time goes on. >ETFs are literally whats creating demand accumulation, all the other narratives are pretty much meh now. You are also right that demand influences prices. However that demand more or less comes from the fundamentals/utility of the thing you're investing in to begin with... It's what separates Bitcoin from baby beanies for example. You WANT Bitcoin to have utility, to be a "decentralized cryptocurrency". As soon as you have a "centralized decentralized cryptocurrency" those two words cancel each other out and you're just left with a currency thats less useful as what it started out as. >Since the ledger shit a week ago all my buddies have f\*cked cold wallets off and gone ETFs, the inflows seems to support that. Which is unfortunate, as that goes in the direction of what I said. The dream 15 years ago was a decentralized currency that was cheap, fast, easy to use, and adopted for e-commerce, all those properties aren't true anymore for Bitcoin itself. The first straw to go was it being cheap (in fees) to use, then followed e-commerce sites dropping it. The last straw being decentralization with the big adoption of ETFs as you mentioned. Bitcoin has very little going for it now.

Interesting-Gear-992

You are partly right. But the basic concept of Bitcoin is to make yourself independent from financial institutions. Otherwise, many people have lost their wealth on exchanges. You can buy ETFs in traditional banks, just like you can buy S&P500, but this is where the biggest advantage of BTC, the self-custody option, is lost.

Educational_Suit_811

Partially agree but you could make a similar argument about investing and finances. It used to be only for the finance nerds and fanatics. But over time they have made it so easy, you can login to your banks mobile app and click "buy sp500 for 10K USD" and done. Similar case with bitcoin, there are already some banks offering you to buy BTC through them. So the nerds can play with their linux machines or custom firmware hardware wallets and the regular Joes will be able to just keep trusting their bank like they always have.

thrwaway1614211

How much it increased in the past is meaningless, these times are over. As I said, my bull case is max 2x-3x in the next 5 years. All the AI plays have a way higher upside potential, because they produce something actually useful. Also the problem is BTC doesn't have any inherent properties or any inherent values. The only reason for BTC to go up is someone willing to pay more for it, there are no fundamental that bitcoin can increase like a company, which would make it more valuable. You seem to not understand what a store of value is, you want it to be stable, without any wild ups and downs, because the goal is to preserve value and wealth with close to no risk, not to necessarily increase it. So BTC is absolutely not the case for this. >When something is volatile you can actually make more money off of it than if it wasn't when selling high and buying back in low. Yes, as I said: This is speculation, not store of value. In the past btc was great for speculation due to its volatility, but these days the upward potential is just not there anymore. And this is a huge problem, because bitcoin only lives due to hype and now all the hype has shifted to AI and memory plays.

Interesting-Gear-992

This is technically correct. But the Average Joe will never initiate a transaction on Linux, on the not very user-friendly BTC Core, move the transaction data on an SD card to another offline (more than one in case of multisig) Linux-based signing laptop, then move the signed transaction data back and broadcast it. So there will never be mass adoption. If this is the only truly safe solution out in the wild, then this will remain a playground for nerds.

thrwaway1614211

What? BTC is extremely volatile and therefore a horrible store of value, only useful for short term speculation. But the thing is 5+ years ago it was worth the gamble for the huge upside potential, but nowadays this is not true anymore. In the absolute bull case we can expect a 2x in the next 5 years. This is nothing compared to the possible gains from AI plays.

BigDik6355

and QuadrigaCX, Cryptopia, BTC-e… There have been a lot of exceptions.

jekpopulous2

Any wallet with an outgoing BTC transaction has a public key that's been exposed to the network... think of it kinda like a return address when you send mail.

tenor_tymir

My BTC dies with me, for the greater good.

Responsible-Being-36

Long term gold is going to near zero (not actual zero because its used in production/fashion) Robotics/ai will enable more gold mining on earth but not large enough to crash it, but maybe reduce yoy growth a little. The big one is asteroid mining. It will happen one day likely in the next 100 years if current robotic/ai trends hold. And asteroid mining will send gold crashing down because its not rare anymore. BTC is a potential gold replacement if it succeeds the test of time because it is finite there is no more supply. I dont personally own BTC but I understand its a better asset than gold for wealth long term especially as an inheritance asset/generatioal wealth. If i was rich id only have personal wealth in gold any wealth to be handed down id have in BTC over gold.

Dramatic-Battle-9737

If BTC averages double the current price over the next 5 years, then around 5 years. If it is flat for next 2.5 years, then 2.5 years. So likely somewhere between that.

gorgonfr

We even don’t care about Fiat value. So there is no joy in BTC going up. I am just looking at my BTC stack growing. LoL.

Outrageous_Olive_489

Please show me a peer to peer accessible way to do BTC transactions that we could trust and use safely.

Expo24816

What has better than a 100% + CAGR ? What is safer than something that has almost perfect properties? As long as you buy an ETF or know what you're doing it's safe in terms of not losing it, and if you're talking about safe in terms of price action then BTC has been an extremely safe long term hold.

PizzaBoyztv

Unless USD gets printed more before BTC can go ATH again. It's just not enough market capital.

SippingInMountains

LOL. Having kids should motivate you MORE to store your hard-earned dollars in BTC.

Expo24816

Well there's a difference from just bad to quite bad now isn't there? Pretty sure the person knows the purpose of BTC too.

a18618

Same here — I stopped trying to time it and started defining it instead. My rule of thumb from backtesting: state the measurable claim up front, like BTC failing to make a new high within 18 months of the halving. Otherwise "the bull market didn't happen" is something you can only declare in hindsight, and every thread just talks past itself. Regime-following works way better when you write down what the regime actually means first.