BTC

Subject_Temporary_51

Yeah that part makes sense but to me the whole stinks because of the stuff about fees for holding the BTC

cocacola0102

Because paying a loan at minimum rates for years will cost you an absolute bucket load in interest, and if you had the money just to pay it all back whenever you wanted you could have just used that money to buy BTC and not have the loan at all. Your concerns are your 'credit' are what make this a bad idea for you. It's only a good idea if you're not bothered about your credit (i.e. let's say you plan to move abroad so your US credit score is irrelevant and there's no realistic way for a creditor to get their money back). Then it's a freeroll. It's decidedly not a freeroll if you're paying interest and actually intend to repay no matter what happens to the BTC price.

PeteyPab305

It's a women, and was probably hyped up after last years ATH that they could put in a couple thousand and get back a lot more, so gave the money, and now that it's been a few months and is at the same price they don't want to wait longer and want their money back. but don't understand how BTC cycles work and wouldn't be making anything, and after trading fees and potentially network fees for transfering to cold storage and back is probably less capital than originally was put up. Most likely the investor/holder is wait for a high price point to sell to take a commission after holding an investment for someone else that doesn't understand it could take years to get a decent return on BTC. Just a honest possibility if shes not being scammed.

Always_working_hardd

Damn. The IMF is made up of people who want to buy the BTC for themselves.

Top-Care-8946

There is an old proverb: Fastest way to lose a friend is to borrow him/her your money. Once borrowed then trust will crack with first kickback. Especially when the topic is about larger amounts. There's a huge difference to borrow $200 or $2000+ First of all Bybit is an exchange platform and used to buy/sell crypto for fiat (it's a notion in crypto world for traditional currencies). Exchanges aren't meant to use for long term investments as these funds might get easily seized or freezed when AML (Anti Money Laundering) suspicion ais activated by platform provider. Yes, it's true that BTC value fluctuates but it should not be a reason or excuse not to return back your money. You borrowed money (made a deal) If that deal was made for fixed period and it's overdue then your friend just broke a deal with you. If you borrowed in sense to share profit (he would return more if BTC value raises up)- it's still very bad deal. And you took risk at your own. Next time make your own account on Exchange, Buy BTC and transfer them to your own hardware wallet- That's more safer way because sometimes "Friendship" and "Business" just cannot go hand in hand together as conflicts of interest between parties involved are quick to evolve.

PeteyPab305

the fee for a 3600 BTC buy is way less than 100$ unless he transferred it off the exchange during a high fee network environment and is facing the same problem now, Most likely he is wanting to holding it to 100k and take profit think he deserves some kind of "investment commission" and honestly if you held a BTC investment in cold storage for some for nearly a year, and haven't yet made a profit, or any incentive to do so I can kinda see why he doesn't want to sell it for a loss especially if he made promises that it would go up and make her money, but it take years not a partial year and he probably over promised what the investment could return and would actually make nothing or even pay out of his own pocket to pay it back at break even price. or he was trading leverage or futures and paid perpetual fees to keep it open on a higher position he was controlling and lost capital to fee's and is being honest and needs it to go higher to even break even.

MightiestMal

Buy BTC ETF’s

JohnTheGambler

I will keep your BTC. I am not a citizen in the EU. You can trust me.

Sacredwisp

There are no fees, unless he's been using leverage. Also, unsure why you gave it to your friend to invest instead of just doing it yourself. Opening an account is very easy. Honestly, it sounds like your friend is hiding things, and you should confront him about it. Ask him to be extremely clear about what he's done, how he invested it, and that the money belongs to you. All that being said, it looks like you picked the back end of the bear market to start investing. All evidence points to a new bull market starting. I would not be surprised if BTC is double what it is within a year or a year and a half. Obviously, take random internet stranger's advice with a grain of salt, but I'd do some research now before deciding to sell.

inotocracy

Given people are swing trading BTC in 15 minute intervals, it sure seems like it does sometimes.

SystemOtherwise970

That dude's mohawk is the star of this video not BTC

Ronsonntag

Eh? How is using a standard mathematical equation with actual real BTC historical prices reverse engineering? The Power Law exists on its own. I didn't make it up and I didn't do any manipulation of BTC prices to make this chart. It shows the actual prices over time. PERIOD!

ClearMeeting2902

Do you invest in other things as well VOO VT GLD? You sold BTC to buy the Camry?

Jeffdit

I agree with ya and your probably gonna get some grief in the comments. Its not risky for you or maybe anyone with any foresight to build a plan around the manage the debt. Thing is its many people cant balance a check book let alone manage their debt on well anything. I borrow against my BTC for my daily expenses and short bitcoin to pay the borrow back and avoid liquidation. People act like its the most irresponsible complicated financial alchemy or that im going to lose everything. When really anyone with enough bitcoin and a few books on risk management could probably also pull it off.

fRs72

But how should they even proof you own BTC? Tell them you lost the keys. End of story. This sounds very sketchy to me.

TexFarmer

Yes, but all that cost is included in the purchase price; after that, it has zero cost of ownership forever, unlike BTC, which will cost terawatts of electricity every year forever.

Smart_Membership2

\- The worst-case 36% unrealized gains tax appears to be dead; the Dautch government reversed that plan in October 2026. \- Crypto will likely mov to realized-gains taxation by 2030, meaning you only pay tax when you actually sell \- Untill then, the current system taxes a deemed return of about 6% at 36%, which is far smaller than the nightmare scenario you feared. \- Use the tax-free threshold: roughly €59,357 per person (€118,714 for partners) is exempt from Box 3 tax. \- Keep a small evro cash buffer to cover the predictable annual deemed-return tax instead of selling Bitcoin. \- Consider a Bitcoin ETF/ETP during the 2028-2030 transition window if self-custody crypto stays under deemed-return tax longer than listed products. \- Talk to a local Dutch tax advisor now to check how debts, partnership structures, and transitional rules affect your specific situation. \- If the mortgage still makes you nervous, selling part of your BTC to build a cash cushion is rational risk management, not a failure.

AffectionateYam624

How do they know you have BTC if it is in a cold wallet? Maybe I'm dumb but I have all of mine in a cold wallet and will just sell it in another country to avoid capital gains taxes or p2p.

younggodhallelujah

What BTC??

RlzJohnnyM

Why sell it now? If BTC goes to 200k, sell it and then pay whatever taxes you owe.

MND420

You may need to recalculate, because you’ll pay 36% on the notional yield of deemed return (fictieve rendement). If your BTC goes up to 200k and you deduct the tax free allowance of 60k then the notional yield of deemed return is 6% of 140k, which is 8.4k. That 8.4k is taxed by 36%, so the actual amount of taxed you’d have to pay is 3k.

throwaway12three4

I have a couple of times. If you plan to use all/part of your BTC for a down payment, they will require you to liquidate the BTC before underwriting. Things are slowly changing with some lenders but that was my experience. Otherwise, they won’t even list it as an asset.

chubs66

I can't believe that 17 years after it was launched people are excited about a vending machine that accepts BTC. Like this is cool after 3 to 5 years, but at this point it just highlights what an absolute failure BTC has been for payments adoption (and Insay this as a holder).

OutlandishnessLimp25

I think for those who have sold BTC to get hands on dollars, don’t have any other option. They need more USD to suffice down payment. Personally, at this stage, I’d probably take a loan against my BTC and not sell it (taxable event), but I started buying in 2017, so have a decent cost basis to do this without feeling too concerned.

GlitteringPut3650

Do clients that do this want to turn BTC to usd? Or are they only doing it because they have to in order to buy/ qualify for a home?

OutlandishnessLimp25

If you plan on using the funds that are currently sitting in bitcoin that presents an issue. They need to be “seasoned” ie., those funds once converted from BTC to usd, need to be sitting in your bank account for (I think) 60 days before the mortgage lender will accept them. Just because you have assets as BTC, itself, shouldn’t present an issue, if you’re not using those assets towards down payment.

Savings-Leading4618

Sell BTC and buy IBIT. The bitcoin ETF counts as a stock. You can also try do defy the government, although heroic, you'll be severely punished.

play_hard_outside

It's not the same. You have to \*effectively\* realize your gain/loss every year instead of only when you sell. You pay the taxes as if you sold, regardless of whether you actually do. A system which nominally treats every dollar the same at the end of the day will leave you with less wealth if it collects those taxes earlier, simply due to the time value of money and who possesses how much and when. Imagine a scenario where Bitcoin does 100x, which it absolutely did between the lows of 2014-2015 and the highs of 2017. Say, you bought 100 BTC at $200 each at the bottom in 2015, and paid $20,000 total for all 100 BTC. Consider that by 2016, it's $2,000 -- up 10x. (Yes, this didn't happen until early 2017, but hey.) Congrats, your holdings are now worth $200,000! Under this new law, you'll have to pay 36% of the unrealized gain. The gain is 90% of the $200,000, or $180,000, and 36% of that is $64,800. You owe $64,800 in taxes. You started with only $20k! You don't HAVE $64,800! So, you have to part with some of your investment in order to come up with it: you sell 32.4 BTC for $2,000 each to come up with $64,800 to pay the tax. There is no \*additional\* tax on this sale, because realizing this gain has the same tax burden that the government was going to charge you on the unrealized gain anyway. Great! You now have 100-32.4 = 67.6 BTC left over, worth a total of $135,200. You have \*clearly\* enjoyed an increase in the value of your holdings, so you should feel good. Now it's the end of 2017, and BTC has gone up another 10x, landing at a unit price of $20,000. Congrats! You have 67.6 BTC now worth $1,352,000. You haven't made any money yet, but you \*totally\* could if you \*just\* sold. You remember, though, that everybody is forecasting BTC to be $30,000 by mid-2018.... oh yeah, and one more thing, too... it \*is\* that time of the year again, and you owe 36% taxes on your unrealized gains, which are 90% of $1,352,000. This new tax burden is $438,048. Remember, though, you don't HAVE $438,048. You only started with $20,000 a couple years ago, and as a true Bitcoin maximalist, you haven't been selling along the way (except when the government forces your hand, of course) and have no other investments or large sources of money from which you can draw to pay this tax. So, you do what you must, and you sell exactly 21.9024 BTC for $20,000 each to get the $438,048 you then send onward to your tax authority. At the end of the day, you have 67.6-21.9024 = 45.6976 BTC to your name, worth $20,000 each, for a total of $913,952. For your initial 20,000 investment, having a BTC stack worth this much truly is incredible, and you should feel \*good\* for having HODL'd your way to accomplishing that. So, let's compare your $913,952 result to the result you'd have if you were in a more normal jurisdiction, which charges 36% on only \*realized\* capital gains. You'd have been able to keep more BTC for longer: you'd have been able to keep your BTC all the way through the date you sold, owing taxes only on the gains realized in the sale. You'd still have 100 BTC at $20,000 each by the end of 2017, or $2M, which is a bit more than double what you have after paying the taxes on unrealized gains. Granted, these BTC would be highly appreciated, and you'd owe 36% on the realized gain (which is 99% of the total at this point due to the 100x growth) if you were to sell them, so, liquidated, they're only worth 2e6\\\*(1-.36\\\*.99) = $1,287,200 to you, but this is still dramatically more ($373,248 or 40.8% more than the $913,952) than if you were to realize gains every year. That said, you only held through this much growth by being a true believer. 2017 had several 30+% drops, each of which looked like the end of the bubble, before ultimately achieving the 100x rise from the 2014-2015 goblin town days at the bottom. You \*know\* Bitcoin is going to continue to rise, so you hold. You hold through the first 50% crash to $10k and through all the bounces thereafter, through the crash below $6k and all the way through the $3,122 crash floor. You never sold except for when the government made you. You don't get your money back which you paid in taxes. You just get a tax credit against future gains. It's a \*very\* good thing you were forced to sell along the way to pay the taxes instead of drawing from money you may have stored elsewhere, because you have kept your BTC activities siloed within that initial $20,000 outlay you scraped together in 2015 to buy your initial 100 BTC. Just remember that you have only 45.6976 BTC after all the volatility, out of the 100 you initially paid for. By keeping your activities confined to the $20,000 you initially brought (aka, selling BTC to pay taxes), you have prevented yourself from going bankrupt by effectively giving 54.3% of all of your initial BTC to the government. This is the best case scenario. Now, let's consider a worse scenario -- let's consider what it might be like if you paid all the taxes along the way from \*other sources of funding\* you had available to you. You buy 100 BTC for $20k in 2015. You owe 36% of 90% its total value of $200k in 2016 to pay the tax on unrealized gains, so you sell $64,800 worth of other investments you have (say, your index funds or whatever. Maybe you take out a big HELOC against your house if you have one, etc) to pay the tax. You pay the tax. Then in 2017, the value rises 10x again. You now owe 36% of 90% of the total value of $2M. This tax burden is $648,000. So, you sell your entire house to be able to keep all your bitcoin. Now, in 2018 and 2019, your 100 BTC loses value, dropping to $312,200 in total value at the bottom. This $312,200 position is one which you paid $712,800 total over two years to be able to satisfy the tax burdens of simply continuing to hold it. What do you have to show for it? You have an after-tax loss of $400,600. Sure, you can EVENTUALLY get that back if you make enough gains to cancel the loss, but it's not like bitcoin (or any other investment you can be lucky enough to predict ahead of time) does 100x returns every other year. It will take you a LONG, LONG TIME to get $400k in gains to be able to claw that money back from the government, and in the meantime, you have $400k less wealth working for you, growing to generate those gains. Dollar-days in the market are what produce your returns, and if you could even weather that $400k loss, not having that $400k for such a long time is a huge impediment toward gaining it back. This is literally a scenario in which you could have sold your house and given all the money to your government in taxes, only to end up in a position where you have exactly none of the profit you ostensibly paid taxes to keep access to. Unless you have a lot more millions than you were ever using to dabble in BTC, this would be positively catastrophic.

Some_Translator2459

Sauf que chez eux on ne va jamais rien chercher. Alors que nous on se fait même pomper un malheureux BTC, alors qu’il nous aira fallut de longues années d’économies pour l’obtenir. Allez pomper le gens pleins aux as je leur dis.

drparapine

If they’re anything like the American tax department (IRS), they won’t have any way to prove you own that bitcoin, so long as you never spend it within the jurisdiction of the Netherlands for any goods and services. What teeth does the government have to come after you if you do not declare ownership of any cold storage BTC?

Electronic-Leading71

Honestly if you are not burned out, I would stack 1-3 more years and then travel for 1 year using some of my BTC money (coming from cashing out a small portion of your stack when the prices feels high enough (100k ? 150k ? 200k ? Up to you my friend)

RobOTx63

What is so special though, if BTC has diminishing returns, wouldn't it just be a slow moving safe haven digital currency with market makers grip all over it?

Crab-Stick-Man

Hopefully you had fore vision and sold the cold wallet to an African prince years ago. So it shouldn’t be a problem as you no longer own any BTC.

phishow

I fear that this same situation spreads and the law to make impossible to self custody is to get everyone to exchange their BTC to an ETF. Blackrock

Mike_Hunty

His hair probably accepts BTC as well.

No-Masterpiece2246

Wouldn't make any difference in BTC consensus being controlled by Blockstream and a handful of huge publicly traded corporate BTC mining farms.

Tex_Buttinski

When BTC hits $1 million, a Satoshi will be worth one cent. Thats pretty divisible.

MalsKippetje

Once you go the ETF route there is also no way back, if you want to rotate back into cold storage BTC you have to pay 36% realized gains tax...

pezdal

They bought 80,000 BTC in May?

TheRadishBros

AI will be good for BTC long-term. Once AI trading agents start being used more frequently institutionally; they seem to value BTC higher than human traders.

The_8bit_Klanker

Did you ever report that you actually hold the BTC on any documentation in the first place, did you KYC before you bought it. I guess I'm asking did you acquire it through a centralized exchange or decentralized exchange?

Alfador8

100% agree. And you're right, it is likely mathematically impossible for even *current* BTC owners to each own a single bitcoin, let alone in the future as adoption increases.

Skwuat

"If the value drops, this does not affect you in any way” This is the biggest weakness. It doesn't affect your ability to hold the Bitcoin, assuming the loan is unsecured/fixed-payment debt. But it absolutely affects your economic position. Suppose: Borrow $100,000 Buy $100,000 of BTC 7-year loan BTC falls 60% You still own the same BTC, but your asset is now worth $40,000 while you still owe the lender substantially more than $40,000. That's economically important even if there is no liquidation. The relevant comparison isn't “do I still own the same number of bitcoins?” It's: net worth = BTC value − remaining debt A 60% drawdown therefore creates a very large increase in the amount of your future income that is effectively committed to servicing a now-underwater investment.

Next-Succotash-3827

You are priced out if your goal is to own 1 BTC. That will never happen. Those of us who are whole coiners are in a very elite club and we choose this distinction with pride.

taxisrobbery

That is one of the core reasons BTC exists, the first and only private property in our history. Keep it in your cold card, when appropriate, move to a more free country. Fuck the state, don't finance the parasytes. I'd rather take everything with me to the bottom of sea to give one cent to a parasyte. My blood is mine only.

throwaway12three4

What would happen if, let’s say, hypothetically, you suddenly found 1 BTC you had no idea about and sold it right away? Like if it was 200k and you went digging in an old HDD and BAM, 1 BTC. Might be worth “losing” your BTC for a bit.

molnardavid84

Modern CoinJoin protocols resolve coordinator trust cryptographically rather than requiring distributed consensus. In WabiSabi, the coordinator utilizes keyed-verification anonymous credentials. During round registration, the server validates input amounts, but output addresses are submitted over separate Tor circuits with blinded tokens. The coordinator mathematically cannot correlate inputs to outputs, nor can it steal funds because clients only sign valid transactions paying to their own keys. Open-source implementations like Wasabi (with modular coordinators) and Ginger Wallet (featuring a built-in coordinator with 0% coordinator fees under 0.03 BTC and free remixes) enforce this strict blind trust-minimized architecture.

Forded_Fiction24

I'll leave it for others still. I don't like debt hanging over my head as I feel less free with more obligations to lenders. Not interested in taking loans for investments of any kind, BTC included

foxy-agent

Governments know hyper inflation is coming and they’re blocking exit ramps to prevent capital flight. First of all, giving up your sovereignty to hold their fiat currency is a trap, and selling your stack because you’re afraid of paying earnings is a decision made out of fear, which has never benefited anyone except those spreading the fear. If this passes it will likely be fought in courts. People richer than you will lobby against it. It doesn’t make any sense how if you haven’t realized any gains that you can be taxed on hypothetical gains. Also, even if they know what you once bought, they can’t prove what you still have (until you sell it.) so it seems patently unenforceable. In your example, BTC more than doubles its price. I’d rather pay 1/6 or 1/3 of my BTC if compelled to and still maintain most of my purchasing power, then sell now and watch my purchasing power erode before my eyes.

PhesteringSoars

For over a decade, after Mt. Gox and QuadrigaCX, I swore I'd never buy into it. And some had (falsely) explained early on that if I didn't want my wealth on an exchange, I'd need to run a full Node to hold it myself. Then one day I happened to explain these fears to ChatGPT, and he told me about "Cold Wallets." Where no exchange/bank has my wealth; heck, even "I" don't have my wealth- it's all out on the BlockChain. But with the keys that only I know/have... only I can transact with it. So now I have 4 Nerd Miners, 8 Bitaxe 602s, a Nexus L1 (mining Scrypt -> BTC), and a few hundred in cash ... all feeding into a Ledger wallet.

No-Review-1298

BTC

Immediate-Score-8789

I think a BV can be a solution indeed, and setting one up might already make sense for smaller amounts of BTC than many think. You can further optimise it by trying to inject it in the BV at the highest BTC price you can, as long as it happens before 1st of jan. 2028.

Immediate-Score-8789

I think moving BTC into a BV is the way. Especially if you have a BV already, but I think creating a BV might be worth it if you hold >€10k BTC. Agio deposit or sell to BV for cash, before 1st of January 2028. You'll pay VPB + box 2 over the profit when you sell or get it out, which is slightly higher than box 3 tax, but at least not on unrealised gains. It is utterly ridiculous that this is necessary. I never minded paying my fair share of tax for society. But how politics and especially box 3 is currently handled and milked is enraging. I am very motivated to make sure that from now on forward I avoid every euro of tax payment in NL I legally can.

Project_Demosthenes_

always just dca what you believe in. BTC and SPX6900 for me.

Markthehare

So if they pay tax at $100,000 USD/BTC, would you get a tax credit if it falls to $50,000 USD/BTC?

JimmySki6166

Bitcoin is a weekly purchase in my opinion, and has been for years! You can never have enough BTC in my eyes!! Hopefully my daughter will reap the benefits of my daughter

Klutzy-Sea-4857

Taxing unrealized gains on crypto but not stocks is insane. If buying a BTC ETF or stock provides the same exposure without the unrealized tax hit, then honestly just do that. Protecting your finances comes first. You can always move back to self-custody if the law changes. Do not let ideology wreck your finances.

Klutzy-Sea-4857

The main issue is that banks do not count BTC as a qualifying asset. You need to convert enough to fiat and let it sit in your bank account for 2 to 3 months so it appears as "seasoned funds." That is what most lenders want to see. It is a hassle, but that is the current reality.

robinsonrichard_3

At the 21M BTC cap, there are at most 2.1 quadrillion sats. A sat doesn’t have to buy a whole item; it can represent a tiny fraction of its price. Lightning already tracks millisats, while finer on-chain units would need a protocol change. Divisibility isn’t the bottleneck.

cocacola0102

I'll make my plans based on the reality as it is, rather than some hypothetical doomsday scenario. Don't be under the mistaken impression the government is the only one who gets stronger over time. New ways to avoid taxes also pop up. It's an arms race, essentially. Run your BTC through a mixer. Go to someplace hot and sunny where they really don't give a damn where your funds came from and sell there. You'll probably claim you'll be extradited though as you seem like one of those ridiculously paranoid types who believes the authorities know everything and have the power of god.

Armadillodillodillo

Keep in mind majority of commenters here have chump change. So they will cash out through gift cards or meeting a guy for P2P transaction. The only way to do it is a legal grey area, like opening a business in Dubai or some other nonsense (Or in netherlands themselves if their business are taxed different and can hold BTC). Either way people who are not yet rich enough for these schemes to make sense from financial stand point are screwed.

PsychologicalBit803

I have way too much BTC so let me post on Reddit and tell a bunch of people I don’t know…..I’ll be cool then right?

jojorabbit11

This is one reason I think Bitcoin life insurance is interesting. Self custody solves one problem, but creates another if you die or become incapacitated and nobody can recover the BTC. I work at Meanwhile, so obviously biased, but seeing this problem firsthand has made me think differently about keeping 100% of your bitcoin behind seed phrases. You don’t have to choose one or the other.

mayazir

No, he can spend BTC on paying for goods or services out if his country

Fit_Seaworthiness_37

$100-$500 every 2 weeks. Am thinking about putting the money in then buying every Monday a percent no matter what. If a person truly believed in the viability of BTC long term, short term price fluctuations are meaningless compared to the long term picture. A person would still be rich if they DCA'd since the creation on BTC despite the highs and lows.

True-Lychee

You are the naive one if you think you will benefit from any significant quantity of BTC without paying taxes.

Rosenant

BTC ETFs are available as an option.

Rustycake

I would hold off on selling until you get real news. It looks like this is going through the court systems and nothing functional has been implemented. You may not get a ruling until 2028. You may also want to contact a financial advisor and look into owning a business that hold the BTC and understand what that would look like. I would say this is not the time to panic, instead this is the time to plan

F0rtysxity

As awful as it sounds. I would sell my BTC and invest some of it into a Bitcoin etf or similar. That would avoid the taxable event no?

KindheartednessOk623

It’s in a cold wallet, I know enough people in Netherlands and Germany that do P2P and cash. This is what they want. You’re just scared, and that’s understandable. As long it is in a cold wallet that hasn’t had transactions with CEX you’re safe. They think they can regulate Crypto, but thats far from reality. Why do you think they don’t do this with ETF and IBIT. Because that is what they want you to have. Fake contracts, just like Gold, Oil etc. Contracts are fake and they can regulate it. Gold has a fake price, and they can’t do it with BTC or any Crypto because there is an actual count of Tokens. So please, don’t let them win. Go find other ways around this. Like get a Paraguay citizenship its easy.

AlbatrozDot4576

Mas o BTC não é pra misturar com negócios formais, foi criado justamente pra não ficar dependente e presos as condições e normas do sistema financeiro tradicional, inflação do estado, e um sistema onde eles consguem rastrear, limitar transferência e de uma certa forma invadir a sua privacidade financeira, já no BTC se pulverizar esse valor em outras carteiras já era! Se você comprou btc pensando em adquirir um imóvel errou nos passos do BTC a não ser que o imovel fosse para outro país, sim ele também te dá liberdade terrirorial, se o seu pais entrar em guerra ele te permite mudar de pais apenas levando as chaves na cabeça e recomeçar em outro lugar, é uma questão de defender o seu tempo de vida gasto em seu trabalho ao invés de compartilhar com quem não te devolve o equivalente em impostos. Pode colocar downvote eu não ligo, é hipocrisia ou falta de conhecimento do motivo de existir o BTC, claro que tem uma banda "podre" que se aproveita disso, mas isso esxiste em todo lugar...

jojorabbit11

The harder problem isn’t really how you store the seed. It’s what happens if you’re alive but incapacitated, or you die unexpectedly and your family has no idea how to access any of it. I work in Bitcoin life insurance and this comes up constantly. Self custody is great at removing third-party risk, but it can create a very real succession risk. For meaningful amounts of BTC, I think the answer is usually having different buckets rather than one clever seed setup: BTC you self custody, and BTC where you deliberately trade custody for professional custody and a defined inheritance structure. Happy to explain what that second bucket can look like if useful.

hblok

So within a year or two, BTC might be somewhere between 50k and 200k USD. Got it.

AdeptRelief7130

He man, Nederlander hier! Ik snap de frustratie en de stress van het box 3 debacle is ongelooflijk frustrerend. Maar ik zou oprecht wachten totdat de wet definitief is. Eerst moet de begroting rond zijn en dan moet de wet voor box 3 alsnog aangenomen geworden in de eerste kamer. Alles wat we gaan horen over box 3 in de aankomende maanden kan constant veranderen (wat al in de afgelopen week gebeurt is). Het niet aanhouden van Goud en Crypto is een onrealistisch beleid, niet alleen voor particuliere spaarders maar denk ook aan alle bedrijven die gevestigd zijn in Nederland en dit aanbieden (Bitvavo, HollandGold, etc.) Daarnaast in het ergste geval wordt het verkopen eind 2027, en het ziet ernaar uit dat BTC pas net uit een bear market aan het ontwikkelen is, dus de kans dat de prijs eind 2027 hoger is, is aannemelijk. En BTC etf en/of MSTR kan interessant zijn.

Nice_Material_2436

The BTC power law was cooked up in 2018 and hasn't predicted a single top, that's how good it is.

Objective_Young_1384

I mean specifically with btc which the government doesn't help keep the network running and doesn't provide any security like, literally none, it's literally stealing bitcoins. Only \*\*\*\* pay taxes in BTC, starting with buying BTC with KYC, lol

Loud_Movie_8484

This is my own experience with a small Ledn loan. I used AI to help organize the write-up and work through the hypothetical $25,000 comparison below. Wouldn’t this be a practical use for a short-term Bitcoin-backed loan—getting cash without selling BTC and realizing capital gains—assuming the mortgage lender accepts the funding source and you have a clear repayment plan? I’m testing a small loan through Ledn, and it’s been pretty neat learning the process. When BTC was around $75k, I didn’t have spare cash, so I borrowed against my holdings and bought about $1,000 more. My situation is different from a house purchase and adds leverage, but it’s helped me understand the mechanics. A few lessons learned: Figure out the repayment route first. I initially thought I needed to buy USDC and pay exchange and transfer fees. Ledn also supports USD repayment through ACH. Cash App offers free standard bank transfers, so that’s a route worth checking against the banking instructions Ledn provides. The interest rate is annual. At my 11.49% rate, 90 days costs roughly 2.83% in interest, before any applicable fees—just under 1% per month. Have a repayment source independent of BTC going up. The debt remains if BTC drops, and the pledged collateral can be liquidated. Here’s a hypothetical comparison. Suppose you need $25,000, half the value of the BTC you’d sell is capital gain, and you owe 20% tax on that gain: Sell $25,000 of BTC: $12,500 of gains creates $2,500 in taxes, leaving $22,500. To net the full $25,000: sell approximately $27,778 and reserve $2,778 for taxes. Borrow $25,000 at 11.49% for 90 days: approximately $708 in interest, with $25,708 to repay, excluding any applicable fees. That’s what I’m wondering about: roughly $708 in borrowing costs versus realizing about $2,778 in taxes now, while retaining the BTC. Actual taxes depend on your cost basis and tax situation, and borrowing postpones a potential taxable sale rather than eliminating taxes permanently. For someone expecting cash within a few months, wouldn’t that be worth considering? The important part is where repayment comes from—the down payment stays in the house, so closing alone doesn’t free that money back up. I’d confirm the loan and source of funds with the mortgage lender before doing anything.

blackjackn

$60 BTC per day and $200 MSTR per month.

oligarchy_killing_me

These new rules are so unfair. It would have been forced me to sell BTC if I hadn't lost my wallet in a boating accident.

sgrinavi

BTC etf?

totoin74

Why don’t you be a normal person and evade tax? Just make that cold storage “lost”. Do whatever communist paperwork requirement you have do in Netherlands to make it official. Hold your keys privately. When you want to sell BTC, go to a BTC ATM in another country, cash out, travel to country with the cash, use cash in every low level non suspicious payment. Also put a couple hundred into the bank every now and then.

macetheface

There was a dude here that posted daily memes 'until BTC hit $200k'. He stopped

makasbazis

Why do you have BTC then if it’s not used properly?

Mageant

You could by MSTR which is technically a stock, but it follows the BTC price quite closely.

Cielolo

Or, how do they know it’s not my BTC. You bought an expensive coaching program, sent me all your BTC, then I hired you to custody my BTC, since I don’t really know how to keep my keys safe. Now it’s my BTC, and you are my account manager. You get paid 1 Sat per year for your service. Thank you for keeping my BTC safe!

BrawndoCrave

It does not only hurt if you go to zero. Consider this real-life example where BTC increased from 42k to 60k but instead of only paying taxes on the 20k gain, you paid taxes on nearly 50k gains over the course of a few years… **Dec 2023 (Buy):** Purchase 1 BTC at the bottom for **€42,000**. **Dec 2024 (The Spike):** Price hits **€94,000** (Paper Gain: +€52,000). Minus the €1,000 allowance, you owe 36% tax on €51,000. **You pay €18,360 out-of-pocket** for "phantom wealth" you haven't even sold. **Dec 2025 (The Dip):** Price drops slightly to **€90,000** (Paper Loss: -€4,000). The €500 rule discards €500 of your loss. You bank a **-€3,500 carry-forward loss** and pay **€0 tax**. **Late 2026 (The Crash & Sell):** Price plummets to **€60,000** (Paper Loss: -€30,000). The €500 rule eats another €500. Your total banked loss grows to **-€33,000** and you pay **€0 tax**. You panic sell at €60,000. **The Damage Report:** **Gross Cash Profit:** **+€18,000** (€60k sell minus €42k buy) **Total Tax Paid:** **-€18,360** (Paid entirely in cash during the Dec 2024 peak) **Net Return:** **-€360** (You literally lost money overall despite making a paper profit, because you had to fund the 2024 tax bill using outside cash).

mayazir

Don't tell them you have BTC. You are so naive, there are a lot of ways to hide you money from the gov

na7oul

Bought LSD with BTC on Silk Road in 2013 for 0.3 BTC. It was the most expensive trip of my life. It’s my pizza.

Regular_Attempt_7073

This is as firm a floor as can be imagined if governments recognize the value can only go up from here. Clearly the Netherlands doesn’t think their tax will affect the overall value of BTC.

MooseLoot

Sell it and get a BTC ETF. Then it’ll be taxed like a stock. This assumes your country doesn’t have colossally stupid unrealized gains taxing for stocks (I don’t know of any that do, but it can’t hurt to verify)

biinjo

Put it on an exchange WHY? They still do KYC. If there are taxes to pay they’ll happily argue these BTC are yours, not theirs. And when they go belly up or get rug pulled somehow, they’ll do the opposite. Haven’t we been arguing to never keep substantial amounts on an exchange for like.. the beginning of crypto?

gamezrodolfo77

Do they pay you when BTC is down?

ubfeo

Question... Why does the government even know you have BTC ?

DrSteffer

Depends on your total amount of BTC. Do you have a lot, then a “beleggings b.v.” Or holding can be quite lucrative. Especially when you are a freelancer or own a business. Put it on a exchange. Buy BTC etf or sell. It is not that difficult, just relax

quintavious_danilo

I sold everything and bought BTC.

supermanal

If BTC went proof of stake, would you value it the same?

Echo0455

Although we are leaving the BTC topic. I am fine with a lot of taxes. I don’t believe capital gains tax is a fair tax. As you essentially are putting your capital at risk to make that profit.

Echo0455

Strange how they say BTC is the root of tons of bad actor deals. Yet…they don’t know who is sending/receiving the funds when they conduct an investigation. It’s almost like it’s not traceable to a person.

The_Dog_Pack

So what happens the following year if your BTC goes to zero, will they refund what you paid in? I never understood this mentality. As other said, etf on bitcoin or spot bitcoin etf.

skibidi-bibidi

Sell BTC, buy MSTR (or similar).