BTC

Romanizer

Tokenized gold adds counterparty risk besides other drawbacks. Anyone who has access to BTC, which is much safer here, should stay away.

purritolover69

those are both ETF’s and not BTC. You are literally agreeing with them, that because you cannot hold BTC in a retirement account, you instead hold ETF’s

DogemonRS

Now do BTC in 1980 versus now.

Leather_Drive_8920

Happy for you**🤝**. I remember how excited I was with my first BTC too. Keep stacking and enjoy your BTC journey.

theekruger

Don't. But 10% of your portfolio now if you need to scratch the itch. Set buy orders, limit orders, 30% below current price. Maybe more. If this is the top, which it may be, then it can crash to $14k, maybe lower due to all the new mechanics and players and lovely leverage. Previously we couldn't go below prior lows because people would just hold, or they could lose their BTC. Now, Institutions and liquidation mechanics are in play on a scarce asset. This allows them to push price around a lot more, especially to try and liquidate people from my cohort. Setup a DCA schedule to follow through 2026 and Q1 of 2027. You'll be better off, and any mistakes will be minor and recoverable. You also test your discipline. Been here since 2011. I'm not like the majority of fly by night grifters that have no idea wtf they're doing.

amayle1

But it's irrelevant. To continue the Gold analogy, anyone benefiting from it, whether it be from mining, selling shovels, providing transportation out west, being a broker, etc, is going to be out there stumping on gold's behalf. The result is that more people enter the gold ecosystem. More people buying BTC is generally a good thing for the price, and that's really the end of the story.

SourcerorSoupreme

That's the point? You rely on his company or on less widely accessible tools and expertise to verify than BTC. You can argue crypto is also not grandma-proof but the chasm between BTC and gold's various aspects is quite wide.

FreeBoss2824

The entire point of Bitcoin was to remove trusted third parties from the equation. If you are taking BTC backed loans from institutions, you are recreating the exact system Bitcoin was designed to replace. You are giving custody to someone else, trusting them to honor the terms, and putting yourself back into a position where external parties control your access to your wealth. That is not the Bitcoin standard, that is the fiat system with Bitcoin collateral. Living on the Bitcoin standard means self custody, period. You control your keys, you verify transactions yourself, and you spend or save without asking anyone for permission. It means understanding that Bitcoin is not just an investment to leverage but a monetary exit from systems built on trust and debasement. The moment you hand your Bitcoin to an institution for a loan, you are trusting that institution not to go bankrupt, not to freeze your account, not to change the terms, and not to lose your collateral in a hack or seizure. Every BTC backed loan service that has blown up proves this point. The real Bitcoin standard is simple. Stack sats, hold your own keys, understand that your time preference just changed because you now own the hardest money in human history. If you need fiat for living expenses, you convert what you need when you need it. You do not leverage your stack through third parties. You do not trust intermediaries with custody. The revolution is not using Bitcoin to get more fiat. The revolution is opting out of fiat entirely by holding incorruptible value that no one can debase or confiscate. Anything less than that is just playing the old game with new tokens.

Happy_Discussion_536

Easiest way to lose money. DCAing BTC, the best performing asset in history is the easiest way to become rich.

leovin

Real talk, it would be dope if someone could figure out a way to generate a wallet without revealing the private key to themselves, and stuff it inside one of these things to create kind of like a BTC gift card

BackgroundLast77

Buy 900$ of BTC and use the other 100$ to get a cold wallet.

PrintDoErro

I would never sell to pay off a debt. Leave the debt there and live your life. In fact, one of the advantages of BTC is precisely not being affected by any debt, so why would I do something like that?

JCTiggs

Congrats! Just to let you know that fee is almost 6x higher than it should be. Generally you should only be paying 0.2% or less in fees ($2 for every $1000 spent on BTC). Less fees = more BTC for you.

Happy_Discussion_536

BTC will survive everything.

darodardar_Inc

This ought to trigger you even more: Just In November of this year BTC crashed over 10% in 24 hours https://www.economies.com/crypto/news/bitcoin-drops-below-%2482%2C000%2C-plumbs-mid-april-lows-47796?utm_source=chatgpt.com Lmao

Rude-Jaguar-5930

15k at 7% apr. Thats a 1050 interest in a year. Lets say you make a minimum payment of 150$. So 1800$ per year. paying down 750 per year 3k over 4 years. Say you hold your 15k bitcoin for 4 years aswell as the debt making minimum payments in anticipation for the next "bull run". Conservatively we would presume you would at minimum double up on your BTC holding value in 4 years time. 15K into 30k. The debt is now 12k and you paid 4200 in interest. Paying the debt after 4 years has you at 18k in btc. Ideallly the debt would be a better outcome. However this is all speculation and BTC can go to 0. If your budget can not afford that 150$ per month for the next 20 years as thats how long it would take at minimum payments and 21k of interest over time. Then you should sell. Sort out your budget and start from scratch.

FreeBoss2824

Definitely a big milestone mate. Out of curiosity, what's the long-term plan to being a sovereign Bitcoin holder. Wallet, ie hardware, cold wallet, hybrid, inheritance and duress features etc ? Thoughts on this, if your vision for BTC one day being a multi generational technology/asset, the decisions you are making now are going to be important.

FreeBoss2824

You're right that Satoshi's timing wasn't coincidence, but I think you're missing what Bitcoin actually is. It's not an exit door but it's the first technology in human history that stores economic energy outside political control. Every other monetary system operates on trust and degrades over time. Bitcoin operates on thermodynamics and gets harder over time. Most people learn through pain because that's how humans are wired. Nobody questions the system when their 401k is up and groceries seem affordable. They only start looking for alternatives when the purchasing power bleed becomes undeniable. Every four years the halvings cut new supply in half whether anyone's paying attention or not. By 2060 only 26.8 BTC will be mined per month. For the network to stay secure at current miner revenue levels, Bitcoin needs to be worth $40M-$120M per coin. That's not hopium, that's thermodynamic necessity. Either the price reaches these levels, or the network becomes unprofitable to secure and dies. Bitcoin is what happens when you remove human decision making from monetary policy and replace it with physics. Everyone gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve, not because the universe is fair, but because understanding valuable things earlier than others is literally what creates alpha. The crisis doesn't make Bitcoin work. Bitcoin works regardless. The crisis just makes people finally pay attention to what was always there.

BlownOutRectum

Hey man, if you just like collectibles and cool stuff thats cool, haters are gonna hate especially when it comes to BTC. You may not understand it, what it is, why its important, or even how to buy it and sell it, but look at investments (all investment, not just crypto) like any other collectable. You buy them, you hold on to them, sometimes they get crazy rare, and the value spikes. Sometimes, like in the case of card games (mtg) they get crazy functional and spike in value. Sometimes none of this happens and youre left holding on to some memories. It would be a really good idea to learn a bit while you've got the coins, maybe buy a bit, put it in a paper wallet, and store it behind the coins in the display, giving them a real tie to a BTC wallet and value beyond their cool factor.

karpuzmining

These are the types of posts people make after they buy their first 20 dollars worth of BTC on coinbase

devCheckingIn

You're gonna shit your pants when BTC makes an ATH in January.

FlyRobSkiLuv

Think of it like you now own 1 whole BTC out of 210,000,000 total🤓

AntZealousideal3728

Yes sir I use a cold card with airgapping, the sparrow wallet is a display only. Run my own private electrum server as well for my transactions. Probably unnecessary for only a .1 but I’m trying to make it to 1BTC in the next year and a half with a lot of OT at work.

Itur_ad_Astra

Hard caps are a meme, and the only reason it still exists for BTC is because it lures in noobs with the "21 million will ever exist" bullshit. Bitcoin will have to eventually adopt uncapped supply /tail emissions or it will literally cease to exist. Nobody's going to mine BTC for free. ETH has fixed the long term sustainability problem, and "uncapped supply" sounds scary only if you don't DYOR, which most people don't. By the time you are dead, the total added inflation on ETH will most probably be lower than the total added inflation for BTC.

Top_Limit_

When BTC goes down, you’re risking less to get exceptional returns 

Coded_2011

I’ve been trying it out on CoinSwitch. They rolled out INR-settled BTC/ETH options with multiple expiry cycles - daily, weekly, and quarterly. The fee is just 0.015%, which is much lower than some global platforms. Margins are clearly shown, and they even have an “options seller mode” where ROI and breakeven points are visualized. If you’re coming from NSE trading, the setup feels surprisingly familiar.

efcbeast

Wtf are talking about. Everyone has equal access. Then in the same manner everyone has equal access to the $, which is the most used way to purchase BTC. Everyone talking about fundamentals but what happens close to when all BTC is owned? Are institutions going to stay in a capped asset or are they gonna dump on everyone and move their money to multiply somewhere else?

Coded_2011

I’ve been trying it out on CoinSwitch. They rolled out INR-settled BTC/ETH options with multiple expiry cycles - daily, weekly, and quarterly. The fee is just 0.015%, which is much lower than some global platforms. Margins are clearly shown, and they even have an “options seller mode” where ROI and breakeven points are visualized. If you’re coming from NSE trading, the setup feels surprisingly familiar.

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dee_lio

For the shrinking minority that down own our keys, great. But I hate to think what would happen to the faith in BTC if/when VC/PE/banking does what it does. BTC loses its value if the only people left are bit players. If the financial institutions are spooked, and their clients are spooked, the holders are cooked.

RobotAlfie

Yes thats the uncertain part as miners need the following: to cover electricity to cover ASIC depreciation to earn a competitive return All of this is priced in fiat terms, not BTC terms. So therefore: If the price of BTC is high relative to mining costs → security is strong. If the price is low relative to mining costs → hashpower drops, security declines.

DocInABox33

What are you talking about? Show me you don’t know anything about what you think you know without telling me. The whole point is 1) everyone has EQUAL access to the asset. You don’t have to be a “qualified investor” ie be wealthy to have access to a wealth generating asset. That’s the whole point. 2) Kenyans who own BTC will spend less and less of their BTC for the same amount of food. That’s the opposite rn where any third world country’s currency could hyper inflate and the therefore the “cost” of food which is measured in their currency would become unattainable. Wow the amount of people who comment without understanding the fundamental principles truly is mind blowing.

hedgemaster369

Some crypto holders do this: 1. Sell enough BTC to clear the high-interest debt 2. Stay debt-free 3. Rebuild their BTC position over time, but with a clean slate It’s a lot easier to stack sats without interest eating you alive.

AuthenticityBTC

I think that depends on if you're self hosting or hosting on a VPS/Cloud. A well run node with 1 BTC should make profit, but it's hard for me to give more than speculation without actually testing out different setups.

retro_grave

Emergency fund > Debt > tax advantaged investment opportunities (possibly with BTC ETF) > after-tax investments.

crazy_lolipopp

Hilarious. Does a single person genuinely believe BTC 195k EOY?

HomelessInASuit

None of this was speculation. You can literally see it on the charts and in the way volume, and shorts were being piled. They fired every single bullet in the chamber to fake the push to 127k. Once they couldn’t sustain the run up, and our orange leaders horrific tariffs, and crypto fraud schemes revealed there was actually nothing real behind the push. It has fallen ever since and looking for a true support. Then you had MSTR mNAV almost dropping below 1 and a market that’s literally too afraid to report its own data. This is just GME all over again. When in doubt they’ll repo it out. BTC was about to abridge all the way back to supports at 73k until the shorts got greedy. (Go ahead check the forex Data) CZ, Armstrong, and the exchanges do what they always do. Spark a fake liquidity drive, run a story (This way Vanguard ETF funding, bullshit it’s been around for years) spike insane volume candles out of thin air and pump another run clearing the shorts and providing short term stability. You’re actually clueless if you think any of this is speculative. Writing was everywhere.

justaguytrying2getby

BTC is technically easier as long as miners/network are online. If that goes offline then BTC is completely worthless. For gold you have to go to a dealer and trade it, can't do it online per se, but its still pretty easy and regardless of being online you can still trade it for goods. Granted, stuff going offline these days is less likely, but BTC (any crypto) really has no value other than the fiat put into it. Gold is much more valuable in that regard.

Slider33333

Just transacting on the decentralised network proves it instantly. Yes you can check the blockchain for your btc address. Its that simple. Its designed so you dont have to be an expert. Its designed to be TRUSTLESS. Maybe you are finally seeing BTC value?

darodardar_Inc

So you admit the reality that BTC did crash from 2021 to 2022 - cool. Look at the chart. It happened throughout the span of 1 year.

Slider33333

Tell me you didnt read the article, without telling me you didnt read the article. There is no tool you can use to confirm the authenticity 100%. The tools available on scan the surface. The only way to 100% verify is to melt it, which is destructive, and removes the serial numbers, which seperates the gold from its digitized tokens. BTC wins. Full stop.

Dazzling_Marzipan474

Ya even if BTC goes up 20% a year it won't matter if you're paying 20% on debt. You'll actually lose if you have to pay taxes. Just pay all your debt and start fresh. The feeling of being debt free is amazing. Also learn why you got into debt and be more frugal. Get a budget tracker

iFallOverSometimes

Instead of buying crap like this and moan about spending $23 why don’t you save and spend that on actual BTC?

ElephantEarTag

Depends on your interest rate. I have 40k student loan debt but I'm only making minimum payments because my rate is only 2.6%. I refinanced at a perfect time in 2020. If my interest rate was above 7% that would be a different story and then I would at least consider selling BTC to pay off the debt.

Lazy_Intentions

Debt will die with you. BTC is forever

KlearCat

You asked a question that is easily answerable. > But are you sure that they can't do that with the ETFs or similar? > they're potentially getting in without directly holding BTC on the balance sheet. Not only that but now you are making claims such as ETF providers not actually owning the underlying bitcoin. Again, this is answerable. Not sure why you are asking questions and not even wanting to know the answer.

Tall_Run_2814

You're asking for the predicted BTC price. No one on earth knows the answer to that question. What are you actually looking for? When ppl ask questions like this they're typically either about to promote a scam or fall for a scam that guarantees a certain profit, growth, etc.

Tall_Run_2814

You're asking for the predicted BTC price. No one on earth knows the answer to that question. What are you actually looking for? When ppl ask questions like this they're typically either about to promote a scam or fall for a scam that guarantees a certain profit, growth, etc.

Royal_Cod_6088

We need someone to sell. And if Cramer would please go on and say how BTC is worthless that would make prices go up fast as well.

BacchusAndHamsa

none of that involves actual buys of BTC, just the potential to buy. nothing has been "absorbed"

Cannister7

I don't need to look up anything, thanks. I'm not buying ETFs. I was just replying to the two commenters that seemed to have missed the point of what OP was saying, and were just replying "oh you can't have $1m BTC without mainstream adoption". That's true but OP was specifically talking about tube like fractional reserves, not just all mainstream adoption. I just didn't want to state outright how it works because I don't know exactly.

hrmarsehole

Yup and then keep paying into BTC as if it was still your debt.

drunken_merry

Stop worrying! Look at the graph from 2015 to the present. It’s only going up. Remember to HODL BTC for dear life

partymsl

Only of BTC tho, they ain't even touching alts.

partymsl

I will play the devils advocate and say that you'd kinds convert both Gold AND BTC into fiat currency and then pay... Albeit, BTC is way easier to convert back and forth with fiat currency and there are first adoptions already to start paying with only BTC even as its highly limited.

Material-Statement50

I have 2.83 BTC. 43/m, retired(military) living comfortably in Latin America on $4300/month. Im buying $500 worth of BTC on the 1st of every month, trying to get to 3 BTC

Gareth_loves_dogs

Sold all my stocks last week to put all into BTC.

Double-Tap9336

I can add that silver has gone on a huge run, but local gold and silver places are bending over anyone trying to unload 90 percent coins. I went to see where they were price wise when it was over 58 dollars an ounce (which priced melt at 42 dollars for each 1$ face and they offered 32$ face). I asked if it was common to take a 25% haircut to spot and they said that's what they would pay... There is no comparison between that bullshite and the ease of selling BTC 24/7.

SixEightL

Sold BTC at 118K. Bought Silver at $36. Now stacking Silver and Gold. Profit.

SeemedGood

You’re 9 years late with this call. BTC got absorbed by traditional finance shortly after Blockstream entered the scene. By 2017 it was all over.

BacchusAndHamsa

nothing mature about BTC and the bloodbath is in motion it's a gambling token, no more.

jmw5938

yeah keeping it simple works best. BTC ETH for safety, maybe some good alts like SUI & SEI for upside but spot only. the hardest part is actually holding when it pumps and buying when it dumps

_SlipperySalmon_

I mean, I agree that BTC is safer than individual stocks.... but to say it's safer than an aggregate of stocks like VOO or VTI is a different argument.

Certain-Ride-2110

Why BTC how come you can't just send the whole us money MoneyGrams.

BacchusAndHamsa

no, they're charging chumps fees whether chumps buy or sell. Risk to them is zero. BTC = buying token chump And yes I'll buy when we hit bottom around $58K and go for a ride for a time. But the "future of money", pffft

No-Addition465

Hey bro, you mentioned you're currently buying into BTC because you think it's gonna go above 100k. Can you share why you think that? I'm just really curious👍

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Head-End-5909

Yes, take care of debt first. Modify your spending habits to avoid further debt, then invest your discretionary income in BTC. Also make sure you have adequate emergency funds.

el_bentzo

Using normal technical analysis BTC dropping from $126k to $80k, it would be perfectly normal to retrace back to $103k before continuing a longer downtrend.

Affectionate_Knee_96

I’m in my early 20’s so I’m not into real estate yet, I do have some MSTR. But that’s been a rough time 😂 should’ve bought some Tesla earlier this year but I stuck it out in MSTR. Once I understood BTC I realized everything else isn’t as good.

butteredrubies

Yeah, and since 2017, financial institutions started putting money into BTC or setting up funds and the crypto community cheered it on. And all the memes and hot takes have stayed the same and grown stale but keep getting reposted like it's 2017.

Flat_Program8887

So you asking someone who's smart enough to have $15k in BTC but dumb enough to rack up a debt of $15k that became a burden?

VariatCA

Maybe every other country in the world was too busy spending the last few years buying nothing but garbage memecoins and shitcoins, hoping for the "ALT SZN" to outperform Bitcoin when it finally pumps. Everyone here loves to complain about "America selling" while simultaneously never owning any BTC themselves to support the market.

RandomJoe7

That's because more and more people from the last few cycles have come to understand what a huge scam alts are. They are a giant casino gambling shitshow, they basically serve no purpose. With one big difference: instead of a few 10 or 100 alts, there's now millions of shitcoins. It's all a giant shitshow of copy/paste coins from people who are trying to find greater fools to try and get rich over night. And people have caught on to this more and more over the last 10 years, and are now much less likely to invest into alts. If they're doing crypto at all anymore, they're doing basically only BTC, maybe some ETH (but even that is going to keep losing momentum, as ETH's value is mainly derived from the creation a bunch of shitcoins). With the exceptions of random pump and dumps, short lived individual hypes etc that last a cycle, we're never going to see crypto returns like in the past again. The market is now in the Trillions, it's just not going to do 100x's anymore like 10-15 years ago.

JDovah

Yes, as Bitcoin gains more adoption, its volatility will decrease. I believe the main reason the previous bear cycle was so severe is because of the amount of black swan events that happened in 2022, this is something a lot of newbies probably don’t know about. Combined with the state of the post covid global economy, it created the perfect conditions for the huge crash we saw during that year. So it’s likely this bear market won’t see as big of a downturn, unless a series of black swan events happens again, one example that comes to mind is MSTR selling their BTC and collapsing.

matthegc

BTC now being approved to be traded by financial institutions and for those institutions to be allowed to create BTC derivative products is why the cycle no longer exists. It is no longer left to its own mathematical devices, it’s now being pushed and pulled by banks, hedge funds, etc.

PokeTaskForceYT

$15k is doable for average U.S. income. I’d first know where my money is going and cancel any subs, lower my bills as much as possible and learn to never eat out(DoorDash). If you sell BTC without budgeting and being disciplined, you’ll end up back in the same place.

RandomJoe7

How come there is still people who think BTC will keep doing 10x's or 100x's like in the past? That time is over, this isnt 2010-2015 anymore. The BTC market cap is much, much bigger now, already worth Trillion(s), it will never do the returns again like it has in the past. People really need to get off the hopium/copium...

Prudent-Car-452

With BTC being in the top 10 assets globally, it was never realistic that financial institutions were gonna invest in it If they can make money from it, they will take the opportunity to do so

gettin

Weekly DCA into BTC. When I run out of dry powder I sell off some stocks that I am holding. This way I am still invested in the market but all new money goes into BTC. Eventually my brokerage account will have been all sold off. I do have IRA and 401k holdings as well

RandomJoe7

What, you think crypto will keep doing 100x's all the time? Really? Have you ever tried to run the math on that? Yeah, exactly, it's not going to happen. The more mature/bigger a market becomes, the less explosive the growth will be. I can't believe there's still people who think BTC will keep doing the same growth as 10-15 years ago...

Ashhh1991

I was basically 20% in BTC but that has ballooned into 60-70% over the past few years. I sold some of my BTC to move the money towards the stock market, but with the Black Friday Sale and the Cyber Monday Flash Sale by the Bitcoin CEO, I couldn't pass up the opportunity and moved some it it back to BTC. I still have savings for emergencies, a career and a house. This is just my retirement stuff.

Yasha666

If the Fed comes out of their FOMC meeting with a 50 basis point rate cut, I am sure that BTC will pump in the short term.

NHLBigFan

I can see BTC dropped to $9XK at some point so let the sleeping dog lie.

NewPhoneNewAccunt

I bought around 1000BTC in total. Bought stuff with them. Found 0.1BTC quite a while later and at that point it was worth about as much as I had spent on all my bitcoin ever. Sold it right away and thought it was funny how everything I ever bought with Bitcoin was essentially free to me.

Yasha666

Don't forget about the 'infinite' divisibility of Bitcoin. You are leading yourself to interesting questions about scarcity but failing to realise the point. Forget your 'whole number bias'. There are currently 100M sats per BTC. This could potentially be changed in the future if there is a consensus vote to increase the divisibility.

JDovah

Exactly. I was one of those who believed last cycle was going to be different, and I held my BTC I bought at $40k-$60k all the way down to $15k, but I didn’t panic sell, even bought some of the dip at $20k and below. Just held it until I recovered all my losses and ended up making some decent profits too. If you’re at a loss, it’s all about having patience and not letting you emotions get the best of you, that’s why you should only be buying BTC with money you don’t need. It eventually goes back up, sometimes can take 2-3 years though.

VariatCA

From the looks of it just now, it was the Nasdaq flushing -0.35% in 5 minutes, followed by over $1 Billion in shorts being opened up on BTC within 2.5 minutes. They managed to nuke another $50M in high-leverage Longs before stocks did a complete-180. Today wasn't without its usual daily 24hour lead of shorts-vs-longs, but buying pressure has been a little thin to absorb is, so we're down like 1.5% or so lol.

HoldOnDearLife

People are trying really hard to get you to buy BTC and crypto. Why? Do they really want to share the wealth with you? hahaha when have the rich wanted to help the little guy?

layersofme72

this could happen but the solution is simple, just hold actual BTC in self custody and ignore all the derivative products. if institutions want to create paper BTC and blow themselves up thats their problem. the original use case still works fine if you actually own your keys

Capable_Location9278

Why did you buy BTC? This should tell you when to sell. For me, it is to hedge against the dollar and enhance my retirement. I agree with u/Due_Statistician2604

kirtash93

Smart people owns BTC

Due_Statistician2604

Never sell all. wait till you can retire off 5-10% of your BTC per year and if things go as they should you’ll end up with more than 50% of your stack to pass on

PsychologicalElk4573

100%, probably like the other said too, it's probably less smart than just buying BTC directly but it looks cool.

mju25524

Sorry, I didn't understand very well, I'm new to BTC, but if I buy a BTC will they give me a castle?

panthera_N

reddit censorship is terrible `BTC just took another step deeper into tradfi, which further reduces CZ's ability to manipulate BTC, making BTC's price action even more unpredictable. The positive is that it gets BTC closer to the 1M target, but the price action is probably closer to the stock market`

jmorais00

You still trusted the govt and centralised currency when you went into BTC before 2012?

LatinumGirlOnRisa

I think you make a good & realistic point: as, imho, it seems that people making use of BTC in any way they want to/choose to is what adoption likely looks like. so not really a cult-like form of adoption dictated by others but rather the free-will use of it. something Satoshi Nakamoto - whoever s/he or they as a group might be - apparently considered.🤔💭

HSuke

For 15 BTC, I'd store my backup keys encrypted on a public cloud. No way I'd risk a fire or flood taking out both the hardware signer and paper key at the same time.

panthera_N

BTC just took another step deeper into tradfi, which further reduces CZ's ability to manipulate BTC, making BTC's price action even more unpredictable. The positive is that it gets BTC closer to the 1M target, but the price action is probably closer to the stock market