ETF

Aggravating_Shower_6

I still hold about 20% of a coin through Coinbase but I did the same thing. It’s now in the form of an ETF and I’ll just continue to stack on both platforms I guess but my substantial bitcoin portfolio is now not even real bitcoin.

EuphoricChallenge890

In theory, the ETF you hold will buy BTC if it is a spot etf and that company issuing the ETF will hold it

asuragana

Why not buy MSTR instead of ETF which can give multi fold returns when bitcoin prices increases?

Vipu2

What will happen to BTC when 95% of people have ETF and very few have actual BTC?

flangarky

I made the switch to an ETF a year ago. The annual fee is worth it for the peace of mind.

usedmattress85

Yeah I’m Canadian. We’ve have ETFs years before the USA. I’ve always held my BTC in an ETF, mostly because you can do it in a Tax Free Savings Account so tax free profit. Whereas pure BTC you cannot. Choice is obvious. Plus I’m a dumbass that really can’t be trusted with the keys.

JunoKat

I can’t even get access to the ETF, the UK is so backwards when it comes to Bitcoin related things

Escapement_Watch

Just bought 10k worth in the ETF today! Eventually will go all ETF

JunoKat

It’s not easy, f\*\*\*kin UK government or the pension broker made me go through like 3 tests to allow access to ETN, it’s not even an ETF, but I managed, sold the bitcoin, contribute voluntarily into the account, got some tax rebate and that’s that.

Alarmed_Yesterday515

Create the problem, sell the solution -> Bitcoin ETF 🙃

Obvious-Narwhal-4991

yeah, it depends on choice. if ETF can get things done for you then it is fully good, something I just keep my btc into my bitget wallet and it get things done for me regarding daily payments,

jboshaughnessy

Not exactly, however, I do agree that having multiple wallet buckets makes sense and I would also recommend practicing that. What I’m implying is that I do not think *anything* but multisig (+ multi vendor) is safe from attacks, current or future. I would never use a single signature wallet for any meaningful amount of funds, it doesn’t matter what the hardware or software setup is. If anyone is doing that, quite frankly you should probably just buy the ETF. Technically the original cypher punks did single sig with air-gapped computers but we are living in a new age, our thinking must evolve with the times. Self-custody is the reason I’m here, so going down the rabbit hole of educating yourself what multisig setups are the best for your personal situation is worth the time. Use AI to guide you, take your time, practice deleting wallets and reinstalling to get used to the process. There are privacy tradeoffs to using collaborative self-custody but that’s an option out there if you want some assistance and peace of mind. Generate your own entropy! Rolling dice is not hard and will allow you to sleep at night knowing you did it right. Sparrow wallet and Seedsigner DIY hardware wallet is what I recommend. Open source projects are where I put my trust. The ideological thinking needs to pivot to “signing devices,” where your written or steel backups is your true copy. Do not be intimidated to learn something new, a little every day goes a long way. Take your time! Do not rush and enjoy the journey ✌️ (don’t trust, verify, is not just a meme, it’s a way of life in this new uncertain security world we live in)

xirvin

There’s a wallet company that has a firmware check every time you turn it on. The case is transparent, so users can see if there’s any tampering. The wallets are serialized from factory to ensure that wallet IDs match the serial numbers from the company. The challenge is that any hardware wallet will face many attack vectors. Just failing one attack vector can cause irreparable damage to its reputation, which is why I won’t name the company. This company’s firmware is now secure, but the cost of its bug fix amounted to a staggering 130 million USD in lost funds. As a consumer, you need to be vigilant and proactive to avoid becoming a victim. If you’re not tech-savvy, it’s best to just hold BTC in an ETF.

BigvalBROski

At this point just buy the ETF

riscten

I'll tell you more. "Fidelity" means buying Fidelity's ETF on a traditional stocks brokerage platform. While not the worse idea, you'd be buying a derivative of Bitcoin that's managed by a big bank. In other words, you'd be doing the exact thing Bitcoin was built to avoid: Trust some large entity to hold your assets for you. It's more convenient and it can be invested in a tax-sheltered account, but ultimately, it is not Bitcoin you're buying. It is an asset that's largely managed in an opaque manner, that you cannot verify. If the bankers engage in their typical, creative shenanigans, you might end up empty-handed, and it's all regulated, so forget about the libertarian tenets. If the government wants your asset, it's theirs. I mean it's safe, probably... But self-custody BTC is an even greater contributor to sleep quality than ETF BTC.

Rydog_78

It’s gonna push more people into the ETF’s

Rydog_78

I have to say that the recent hacks out there had made many fearful of doing self custody. Many will just go with ETF’s. They would rather put their trust in an institution that knows how to custody trillions of dollars of investor funds rather than trusting some cold storage device made in Europe. Because when your funds get hacked will your town’s keystone cops track down the ones who stole your shit? Or would you rather trust that a multibillion dollar institution would have the resources to recover stolen funds and hopefully you can recover those losses.

bigbrainnowisdom

ETF

Good_Extension_9642

Which wallet? Never mind Buy ETF, it's safer

misbister14

I like the ETF because I can buy it in my Tax free savings account (Canada). So I do both

Generationhodl

"The holders cant be bunch of computer geeks whose ability to secure the private key is endless, it needs to be working class people, moms, dads, and grandparents whose ability to use credit card and cash needs to suffice in the realm of bitcoin security and transaction." for those people, as much as I don't like to say it, an ETF would be the best solution. The ETFs are the most easy solution for most people that are not much into tech. If you have enough time and WANT to self custody, then there are several solutions you can look into, like cold wallets. A good idea would be to always diversify your holdings. Maybe some in cold storage from different vendors, some in etf, some in custody at a third party... If you have the time and patience, just split up your bitcoin into 5-6 different places where you hold them. So if one place would fail, you would not lose everything.

didnt_hodl

IBIT is pretty good. but hey, MSTR and BlackRock use Coinbase, and many other whales, since 2012. are they all wrong? with their puny millions of coins. of course they are. and folks with 0.0001 BTC know so much better. they will not be fooled by the false security of an ETF or an exchange. or a bank basically like Fidelity. keeping it directly at Fidelity is wrong too? honest question btw, why do I need to keep jumping all these stupid hoops. first entropy then this reseller crap, and on and on and on

MrNoodleIncident

I’m not a shill and prefer ETF. It works for me and what I want to achieve. It’s good for certain people, less so for others

supercreatives

Don't listen to anyone saying buy ETF or keep your coins on an exchange. Government shills. Self custody is best, Trezor is fine, even a hot wallet on your laptop is fine as long as you practice reasonable OPSEC.

PINEAPPLEFRYZE99

Bitcoin ETF. Everything else is just stupid.

Ok-Worldliness8828

If you say it's too complicated, well then it's going to be just that. You are smart enough. It's not as complicated as youre making it sound in your head. Write down your seed phrase. Keep it hidden. Leave instructions. Dont leave everything on 1 device and also dont put your life savings into it. Just start with something you can afford and dca. You can keep some on exchanges to stake, but keep the majority in cold storage. At the end of the day, its every man for himself when it comes to finances. You have to do what's right for you. I would still invest in ETF's, blue chip stocks, real estate and BTC. You need an asymmetrical portfolio.

LegendsNeverDox

At this point it looks like just buying an ETF

ryce4u

What are some spot BTC ETF ticker?

Financial-Gap-6767

Just buy ETF... I don't understand why you would self custody at this point unless you understand why you should.

Over_Reputation_8801

I think the Coinbase Custody Trusts multi-sig, segregated cold storage vaults that store the BTC from my IBIT ETF are more secure than any personal cold storage could ever be.

RLJ05

How’s that going to work when the ETF issuers custodian gets hacked?

I_SAID_RELAX

There is just no way any meaningful number of people are ever going to reach that bar for safe self-custody. If that's the bar, then I'm sorry to say that the vast, vast majority of people are better off staying in traditional finance and buying an ETF or using a custodian they trust more than themselves if they want to participate in "number go up."

Branch_City

You don’t think if a hacker was able to drain BTC from exchanges it wouldn’t tank your ETF?

Popular_Pilot2161

I would also say stocks but use caution. Hedge your downside risk with dividend paying companies or ETFs to even out the volatility we may be seeing soon. But try not to time the top, DCA over time to keep your cost avg as low as possible. I'm slowly accumulating WMT (Walmart) and WMTI (Walmart option ETF) as a recession proof asset or VG (Venture Global) since world energy markets are all in an expansion phase. Bitcoin and rental real estate will likely continue to do well into the foreseeable future. If you don't want actual bitcoin, BTCI (Bitcoin ETF) pays a monthly dividend based on the bitcoin price. **not financial advice. Do your own research**

Time_after_Time_67

It is starting to feel like ETF’s are the safest way to hold now. The hacking shit is getting crazy…

georgejetsonn

I'm sure it will happen, but the chance of legal recourse with an ETF is higher than self-custody

Difficult-Repair1295

Yea two YubiKeys is ideal. I’m the same way. If I die I’d have to hope someone could figure out the treasure map of cold storage. So most my stack now is either on exchanges or through the ETF.

AndyKJMehta

Buy the ETF and relinquish your ur liability!

_BreakingGood_

At this point im thinking of just getting an ETF, let the hedge funds figure out how to keep this shit secure

Infamous-Discount-99

Will Fidelity allow you to transfer bitcoin out in the future? It sounds good for the immediate future, but long term wouldn't it be risky that you could allowed to only "cash out" into cbdc, programmable stable coins, Zimbabwe dollars, etc. If you need Bitcoin in the future, and thats not an option with ETFs,  it seems like this is a very short sighted approach given that the world monetary system might be restructing/resetting. If Bitcoin is actually a disruptive tech, ETF seems like the bankers solution, not ours.

magus-21

That's not true. At all. Crypto ETFs *should* work like commodity ETFs like gold. Here's what State Street says: >If the Trust’s gold bars are lost, damaged, stolen or destroyed under circumstances rendering a party liable to the Trust, the responsible party will be held accountable for such a loss. However, there is a risk that the responsible party may not have the financial resources sufficient to satisfy the Trust’s claim and the only source of recovery for the Trust might be limited to the Custodian holding the Trust’s gold when the loss occurred. Each Custodian maintains insurance with regard to its business on such terms and conditions it considers appropriate which does not cover the full amount of gold held by them. Further, the liability of the Custodians is limited under their respective custody agreements. TL;DR: An ETF doesn't just "collapse." Unlike crypt companies, ETF managers can't just take your money and say, "not your keys not your coins." They have a fiduciary obligation.

gamma55

Sure, if you can reach out to Blackrock and get them to deliver your certificate. If you can’t? Well, better hope you can trust the long chain of intermediaries to hold their promise, and the government to hold their promise to keep your side if there’s a problem. So again, false equivalency. Blackrock ETF isn’t the same as self-custodied BTC.

mysomica

I'd say the risk of holding your BTC as a Blackrock ETF is, in the majority of cases, much safer than trying to hold it on a Ledger or Trezor.

fwckr4ddeit

do you think ETF will never get scammed/hacked? just a matter of time. You own part of the ETF, so when it gets hacked - well the ETF collapses.

Shlongan

The short term holder realized price is around $75,000, the institutional cost basis, specifically thru ETF’s is around $82,000 hope that helps

Key_Corgi_1906

What’s fidelity? I’m conserving selling all my btc and investing in a BTC ETF

Effective-Role-9025

It actually has a lot going on rn. Besides being one of the top cryptos for actual payments, it’s one of 3 on Fidelity. Canton and SwissBorg just signed it. Last year it had two treasuries and an ETF, it just added DeLorean as a car company that will take Litecoin payments and be a third treasury. It’s MiCA compliant so will be one of the last options standing in the EU soon. It has optional privacy. LitVM is building an ecosystem on top of litecoin for web 3 and de-fi applications- which will make it one of the first coins to try this on top of a limited asset (sol and eth are unlimited)

PowerappsDev

Fair point. A s&p500 and a World ETF can stagnate for years too. But I'd rather accept slower steady growth (like historically 7-9% a year) and market downturns than take on the concentration risk of Bitcoin

PowerappsDev

I had similar thoughts and ended up moving all my crypto into a World ETF. Less stress, more diversification, and I don't have to worry about whether crypto will ever live up to its promises. Plus, I don't have to explain to my wife and kids how my Ledger works in case something happens to me, or constantly worry about some new hack, exploit or security issue with my hardware wallet or crypto exchange. Why are you worried about taxes? Isn't crypto tax-free after holding it for a year in your country?

MrBurtSpaghetti

Btc is slow, public, expensive, nobody works on it, it can't scale and has a mystery dev hoarding 5% of the float. The moat for btc is wall st, who's chasing the next thing already. Tom with ETH, Winks with ZEC, Lee with LTC DATS and grayscale converting the ALT trusts to ETF. If it's alt season then ltc is in the right spot imho.

MrBurtSpaghetti

You and me both. Here's my thesis - dino coin with a grayscale trust so yrs of basebuilding in crypto and legacy markets, couldn't ask more of the fundamentals, now with 2 DATS/miners and LTCN being converted to an ETF I'm hoping for the same volume that showed up when ZCSH became an etf to kick this thing off. 🤞

Suspicious-Holiday42

You know that even a world ETF can drop 50%

DarthBen_in_Chicago

Until it happens to an exchange. Even the ETF offering documents state this could be a risk investing in their ETFs.

papa_autist

Unfortunately BTC is non-marginable on robinhood. They only support traditional regulation-T margin, stocks and ETFs are eligible. OP could sell the BTC and then buy an ETF but that would incur cap gains tax costs reducing the borrowable amount and defeating the purpose of the getting the loan.

__redruM

Basic S&P 500 index fund, with Nasdaq on top. I like: - VOO: 60% - QQQ:40% There also a semiconductor ETF that has really been good, but it may be high now. That’s SMH. Keep an eye on it and if it drops below $450 grab some. I bought some in march at 385 and it’s over 600 now.

Ok_Wrap5233

At this point if you’re investing a substantial amount and unless you’re transacting in BTC there’s no reason not to just buy an ETF through a legitimate broker. Could also help shield profits from capital gains tax in some places.

PowerappsDev

It's up around 20% this year, which is (way!) above average for this ETF. Normally, it's more like 7–9% per year in the long run Ftse world etf

PowerappsDev

Yeah, reducing it to 10% and diversifying would probably have been the more rational approach. But honestly, it was more of a gut decision. I just like seeing my World ETF portfolio grow, and having everything in one place gives me some peace of mind

2xfun

What is that ETF average return if I may ask

PowerappsDev

I get your point, and I still believe in Bitcoin. I used to have more of a "fuck it, it'll work out" mindset. But with two kids and significally risen costs, my risk tolerance has changed. Even a small chance of losing everything stresses me out too much. I'd rather stick with a world ETF now. Just a personal decision, not wanting to spread FUD

PowerappsDev

I've moved everything into a FTSE All-World ETF now, and I feel much more relaxed about it. I've already had pretty good returns with it this year, so hopefully that continues

Dr_Zoonotikstein

Needs adoption.. like a Strategic Pokemon Reserve, or an ETF $POK

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riscten

That was the only time I kept on a platform. If I hadn't lost it all in a terrible boat accident, today, I'd probably do some in self custody, and some as an ETF.

LearnBitcoinCom

Thanks, glad the chart works. On the accumulate part, the strip under it is worth a look. None of it is the bank buying for itself: crypto funds for wealth clients in 2021, a role in BlackRock's bitcoin ETF from 2024, then letting clients buy in 2025. Less stacking it quietly, more opening the door for clients while the boss kept talking it down.

Pleasant_Maybe_5523

I’d start small and avoid worrying about timing the market. If you want to actually own Bitcoin, buy BTC and learn self-custody. If you just want exposure to the price, a spot ETF is simpler.

blue2140

Dollar cost average in. Trying to predict the short-term moves is practically impossible to do every time. Watch ETF flows, MSTR buys, and options activity.

Fear_Blind83

Coinbase Prime custody Billions of dollars worth of BTC for some of the largest institutions including Michael Saylor's Strategy and BlackRock ETF etc..

patricia-barros-7

It may help to track net flows as a share of ETF assets, too. A $300M day means less if the funds’ total base has grown, so that gives the threshold some context across months.

Master-Monitor112

I blame the ETF for most alt coins not hitting there previous ATH.

Icy_Dragonfruit__

If you’re new, start small and DCA rather than trying to time the perfect entry. Learn BTC first, then decide between holding BTC directly or using an ETF.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

quintavious_danilo

Only real Bitcoin is Bitcoin. An ETF is a convenient way to participate but it’s not Bitcoin. Real Bitcoin, however, comes with hoops to jump through, like money deposits, broker diversity, hot or cold storage and some more. Are you ok willing to give it a go? Just a heads up, it’s not that difficult to understand, I mean i’m not the brightest candle on the cake myself and I’m doing alright self-custodying my coins. You can do it as well, just need some time to read into it and to learn not to overreact when prices decline.

devCheckingIn

Massive ETF outflows yesterday point to those big drops the night before as likely being institutional short positions.

crimeo

It doesn't matter where you hold it. If quantum attacks break the encryption on any coin, the coins will drop to 0 value overnight. Everyone's supply will be worth nothing. YOUR personal wallet doesn't need to have been hacked to still be worth nothing, since nobody wants to ever buy your ETH again. Even holding shares of an ETF or something wouldn't help you, since the demand dropping will make the share prices legitimately drop to 0 as well (and securities insurance doesn't cover that, since it's an actual price drop, not fraud by the brokerage)

bigcoumbe

Any ETF as they are basically the same is a great jump off point. If you want to actually own the bitcoin, Strike (my preference) or CashApp make it super easy to start stacking

PotentialExtra1211

That created an opportunistic buying opportunity. Investing is something that you really have to learn through experience, at least for most people. If you are going in wanting to turn $1k into $100k in a few months time, it’s not going to happen. If Bitcoin is something that you believe in, then you have to commit to it, buy low, sell high. That means buy it when it dips, which it will, people take profits, or abandon it. There’s a lot different now than a year ago. There’s a lot of brokerages stockpiling it, a lot of governments too. There’s the clarity act, exchanges will back your investment if something happens, even though it’s not FDIC insured, at least Robinhood will. If you go into investing with no plan, just hoping for a quick profit, more often than not you will be disappointed. You don’t make money from timing the market, you make money from time IN the market. I don’t believe in putting all your eggs in one basket either. I have 3 cryptos, an ETF, and multiple stocks across different sectors. Getting rich quick is not likely. But on a long term basis, like 5 to 10 to maybe even 20 years, with continued investment, your chances of success greatly increases. It’s almost guaranteed. Billionaires love when the stock market crashes, it might take 2 years for the market to recover, but it always does. Otherwise there would be no billionaires or trillionaires. There would be no big business, there would be no banks. The government doesn’t bail out the working class, they bail out the money lenders. The best time to invest in bitcoin or any investment was over ten years ago. The second best time to invest, is today. Everybody wants instant gratification, but it’s not realistic. Over a long period, it is.

Big_Training4226

Just jump in and buy a bit, you'll learn faster watching the price move than watching a hundred vids. dont overthink the ETF thing, just grab some actual coin off a decent exchange and hold it in a wallet you control

Ocarding

Been watching ETF flows more than price lately. September's run was carried by roughly $2.6B of spot ETF inflows, with one day close to $1B. Since then it's dropped like a rock, and price has basically gone sideways under 87k. I'd want to see a few sessions in a row of $300M+ inflows before I believe the institutional bid is back. and we're heading in the right direction. Add oil pushing yields and the dollar up and I'm not that surprised we're stuck

Shadowrunner138

You'd be taking less risk by investing in an S&P 500 ETF.

keruancy

81% of supply hasn’t moved in 6 months means the actual liquid float is tiny. Wall Street (and every new ETF buyer) can’t just “create” Bitcoin — they have to pry it out of hands that are clearly not selling at these levels We’ve seen versions of this before, but the combination of historically high dormancy + institutions still in early allocation mode is different. The next real leg higher might not wait for retail FOMO. It could start while most people are still looking the other way.

eToroTeam

The divergence with equities stands out more than the liquidation number. Nasdaq at a record while BTC struggles to hold $84K suggests this isn't simply a broad risk-off move. If that continues, the question becomes what crypto-specific demand is missing right now, especially with ETH ETF flows already turning negative.

Hodl4BlastOff

Interesting. What are you seeing that makes you say institutional inflow? ETF/fund flows, wallet data, on-chain activity, or something else?

basketbun

You can only buy what others sell for one. Second , institutions buy on behalf of a client or customer, and wrap it in an ETF, it is still a retail end user

Queasy-Bridge-7524

I’m in the same boat. I think there’s often more risks involved with self custody than diversifying where you store it (e.g. by using an ETF or a third-party like River). Self custody is not for everyone.

Successful_Pin_2641

US market open won't let us break out i feel. Every day.. fuck wallstreet and ETF 😂 maybe after close one day we shoot out of triangle? Don't know shit though

soccerchamp99

Offering ETF = bowing down. Nice.

BarraraRoscarly42

One week after a monster inflow week is probably too noisy to call a demand break, especially with quarter-end in the middle. The part I'd watch is whether the divergence persists. If IBIT keeps absorbing flows while the rest bleed, aggregate ETF demand can still look healthy while buyer breadth is weakening. A few weeks of that would tell me more than the 10x week-over-week drop by itself.

AutoModerator

Post is by: ChangeNOW_Community and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wyzrxc/btc_etfs_went_from_24b_to_241m_in_a_week_cooling/ was going through the farside ETF numbers this morning and something felt off week of Sep 21: roughly +$2.4b in. and almost a billion of that was just monday last week: about +$241m. still green on paper, but thats like a 10x drop. and Sep 30 was straight up red, around -$149m the weird part is the split. IBIT still pulled in \~$450m last week, while fidelity's FBTC actually bled about -$168m. so it's not like everyone stopped buying, it's more like blackrock is carrying the whole thing right now honestly not sure how to read it. part of me thinks its just quarter end stuff, funds rebalancing, and oct 1-2 did bounce back a bit. the other part of me remembers that a big chunk of the "number go up" story this year was literally just ETF demand so whats your take, normal cooldown after a monster week or first sign the big buyers are getting tired? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Low-Law-5461

Io venderei il bitcoin quando arriva a 100 k e poi se proprio puoi comprare ETN bitcoin tipo wisdomtree WBITG , paghi il 26% di tasse sulla vendita in plusvalenza però se hai in carico delle minusvalenze ( esempio hai venduto in perdita delle azioni o obbligazioni) le puoi recuperare e non pagheresti le tasse sulla plusvalenza del Etn. Uguale anche con azioni, materie prime , obbligazioni. Invece con le ETF non puoi farlo , paghi sempre 26% sulla plusvalenza. Almeno qui in Italia e’ cosi

Top-Disk2556

I get why you’re worried, especially after buying a house. But you wouldn’t pay 36% of your Bitcoin’s total value. The 36% applies to the calculated Box 3 return, after the tax-free allowance. Selling BTC or moving it to cash usually doesn’t remove the tax, and a Bitcoin ETF is generally still taxed in Box 3. I’d keep enough euros aside for your mortgage, emergencies, and possible tax bill, then only hodl an amount you could comfortably hold through a major crash

sylsau

Your Bitcoin breakout is someone else’s exit. **At $87,000, one investor sees the road to $100,000.** **Another thinks: “Finally. I can get my money back.”** A recovery can attract fresh buyers while awakening people who have been waiting months to sell. And here’s the detail behind the bullish ETF headlines: **Weekly U.S. spot Bitcoin ETF inflows dropped from $2.39 billion to $241 million between the weeks ending September 25 and October 2.** Still positive. Roughly 90% smaller. Buyers keep showing up. But how much supply can they absorb? **Bitcoin has a supply limit. A sell wall has no expiration date.** At $87,000, do you see opportunity—or relief?

GettingFasterDude

Check if ithe law applies to ETFs. If not then buy either iBIT or FBTC bitcoin ETF. If the law ever gets fixed, then get back into the real thing.

omg_its_dan

Nothing happens. Tick tock next block. I also do not consider the ETF’s as 100% “institutional owners” because a large amount of the ETF shares are owned by individuals.

No_Position_8581

if you use a hardware wallet you are trusting the less scrutinized software running on it or the possibility that it wasn't tampered with in shipping. Consider using an ETF or a trusted custodian for now and learning about self custody and risks and trust models/tradeoffs.

Nekochannnn

Honestly, $87K can mean two totally different things 😂 Some people see the breakout, others are just happy they can finally get out. That drop in ETF inflows is definitely something to keep an eye on though.

maternoeslovo

as adoption is making more and more progress such OG values as decentralisation in no way translate to value anymore. I mean everyone was praying for BTC ETF lol. It's a joke.

AutoModerator

Post is by: sylsau and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: https://inbitcoinwetrust.substack.com/p/bitcoins-87000-wall-your-breakout Your Bitcoin breakout is someone else’s exit. **At $87,000, one investor sees the road to $100,000.** **Another thinks: “Finally. I can get my money back.”** A recovery can attract fresh buyers while awakening people who have been waiting months to sell. And here’s the detail behind the bullish ETF headlines: **Weekly U.S. spot Bitcoin ETF inflows dropped from $2.39 billion to $241 million between the weeks ending September 25 and October 2.** Still positive. Roughly 90% smaller. Buyers keep showing up. But how much supply can they absorb? **Bitcoin has a supply limit. A sell wall has no expiration date.** At $87,000, do you see opportunity—or relief? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Kacper309

Can you just switch to ETF or Micro Strategy stocks?

Dramatic-Tackle-792

Most people aren't aware that major global financial institutions are slowing ETF purchases to lower the fiat price on exchanges so they can flush leverage and stack on the sly. They have invested billions to lay the rails for blockchain's integration into the global financial infrastructure. They make plans for decades. It means your bitcoin is safe and once the supply squeeze hits... moon!