ETF

DimensionTiny8725

I mean yeah BTC did fine but you can only thank the ETF's for that saving grace.

BrightManagement2281

Where can I invest into ETFs? Also, is there any platform that automatically deposits profit earned from ETF into capital? I

Jealous_Inside_9984

In other news Citi now has a Bitcoin ETF

Amber_Sam

More than one: Read/bookmark this guide and make sure to learn along your journey. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dca.bitnob.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. Use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor) [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

Amber_Sam

Welcome aboard. We all have been where you're at right now. Read/bookmark this guide and make sure to learn along your journey. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dca.bitnob.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. Use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor) [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

olduvai_man

High-risk, high-reward. The only time to buy BTC is when it is way down. At the current price, you're better to just buy VOO or an ETF than to even dabble in crypto. Got a massive alt bag though so never listen to anything I say.

biba8163

> People just aren’t buying alts The Age of Shitcoins is Over > If BTC hits $100K AND Trump gets elected AND Gary Gensler gets fired AND the FED does a few rate cuts AND the stock market does well AND my Alt gets an ETF, then my Alt will surely moon! - $100K BTC, $110K BTC, $120K BTC! - Pro-Crypto Scammer President! - Gary Gensler fired! - FED cuts rates 3 times! - Stock market up 15% YTD! - ETH gets an ETF! ETH still -35% from 2021 high - XRP gets an ETF! XRP still -50% from 2018 ATH - LINK gets an ETF! LINK still -35% from 2020 high - LTC gets an ETF! LTC still -80% from 2021 ATH - HBAR gets an ETF! HBAR still -80% from 2021 ATH

Informal-Ad220

Yes, that's the way it is supposed to work. In reality, all a BTC ETF investor has is a promise.

ColtAzayaka

The dumbest shit I was ever told is that I'd regret it when the price of bitcoin goes up and I can't afford to buy as much when I sell the ETF. Had to point out that there is probably some kind of correlation which would benefit me too lmfao.

crmszn

No real growth or users. Too many people got burned. Institutions are here but that’s corporations. Easier to dump money in AI. It stole all the tech excitement. People have other options like prediction, options, gambling. Too many options that are vapor or scams. OG’s exiting or new methods to hold in ETF’s. No need to deal with wallets, coin pairs which impacted alt season. Fragmentation between chains and money. BTC, EVM’s, Rust. This is a full time 24/7 sport and people got older and have lives. One thing post Covid when we had extra energy. Now we are older. Shitty tokenomics for a ton of coins Big fish fight each other differently. People yap about manipulation. Really most of us are just catching strays between billion dollar traders trying to rip each other off.

rgnet1

The point is that we have seen evidence of all supposed safe financial instruments being pushed to unstable limits, regulatory bodies failing to enforce boundaries, and the markets ultimately crashing hard. 2008 being the most prevalent example. Who do you think gets bailed out when one bitcoin custodian holding for one or more major ETFs suffers a hack, theft, or any kind of loss? ETF shareholders will spend 5 years waiting for a lawsuit or bankruptcy to resolve and will get remediated a tiny, tiny fraction of the market value of bitcoin at the time of the loss. Check out The Biggest Heist on Netflix - it wasn't an ETF, it was an exchange that lost bitcoin, but it's all going to be the same outcome.

JuxtaposeLife

The ignorance of this post... you do realize when markets are open, the ETF volume increases. Makes this even more potent. Look at my last two days where I posted the same chart at different times

rgnet1

Sure, but without a real underlying asset that real people are trading, no ETF can exist to track the price. Also ETFs do not track 1:1 with real BTC price - it's close, but it has variance and minus management fees.

HumongousShard

At least with a Bitcoin ETF, one is spared the need to perpetually monitor one’s Twitter feed in anxious anticipation of the next quantum-computing vulnerability and the inevitable call to upgrade.

Live_Jazz

There are collaborative custody multi-sig solutions, eg Unchained, but it’s too much friction for a lot of people and you need a pretty large amount in the account for the annual fees to be less than the equivalent ETF expense ratio.

OrthoOtter

For 90% of investors a Bitcoin ETF in an HSA or Roth IRA is much more appropriate than holding actual BTC. The only advantage actual BTC holdings has is security and independence—which are pretty big factors—but unless someone is planning to retire early, the ETF in a taxed advantaged account is obviously the superior choice.

phoebeethical

Bitcoin in an ETF is real bitcoin.  It’s just in a special bank account with lots of restrictive rules and not under your mattress.  

Inevitable_Koala1673

But buying the ETF comes with a much lower energy cost and more liquidity

FnAardvark

This isn't a low risk proposition just because it's an ETF. You are just as likely to lose value on either trade. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

Puzzleheaded-Dot-762

Everyone buying Bitcoin should do this? Mass adoption is not happening without ETF if that's the case 

Puzzleheaded-Dot-762

It's better for some people. My mom will get my Bitcoin ETF if I die to day. I hope my brothers find a way to gain access to my actual BTC 

superawesomefiles

This is true, folks. The only thing real about it is the gains. 10% BTC gain = 10% ETF gain.

FnAardvark

What does that have anything to do with it? Do you think an ETF that follows bitcoins price 1:1 magically shields you from losing money?

Pristine_Kangaroo527

SOL doesn’t have the institutional adoption that BTC and ETH do, which is why there’s more potential upside. I’m not saying put all your money into SOL, but SOL is growing and will be the next thing to get institutional adoption. You can also look at things like ETF inflows and on-chain transactions to see how big SOL is.

NYCPATRICK

Never invest more then your willing to lose or that's just Degen behavior. I have a bunch and basically set and forget. The 2032 bull run will have the infrastructure built for use case rather then just speculation with all the New crypto laws going into effect next year. The ETF's inflow will be serious, the derivatives market will bring in Trillions and then RWA's will bring other assets and commodities to the block chain creating Trillions in new inflows. Get real crypto with utility and do t look at the price every day. Amazon took a long time before they became a powerhouse. Uber also was rejected by many markets when they first started. Now they are a mega cap. Ripple is next up, they are building the plumbing. Staking and yield pools are going to lock up a lot of capital into these markets creating scarcity.

isaacnsisong

The thing is, weekly swings of 5-10% usually feel like manipulation, they are more often just a function of liquidations and market depth. Because Bitcoin markets are open 24/7 but traditional ETFs only trade during NYSE hours, you often see massive 'gap' movements as the ETF catches up to weekend or overnight price action. A sound consideration for your 401k strategy: the 0.25% fee is actually significant if you are making multiple trades a week, as those costs compound against your principal. More importantly, using a 'buy the dip' strategy with a 401k often triggers settlement delays (T+1 or T+2). If you sell to catch a bottom and the market rockets back up before your funds are settled and ready to re-buy, you risk missing the most profitable days of the year, which is historically where the bulk of Bitcoin's gains occur. Most long-term holders find that 'Time in the Market' beats "timing the market" especially in tax-advantaged accounts where you can't harvest losses to offset gains.

Romanizer

That's usually the part where banks lose money as they offer transactions for free that are not. However, even with Bitcoin many people prefer to let someone else to the custody, either the exchange or through an ETF. Banks will always be a pillar of the system and of society but now every participant has a choice of what he does with his money.

biba8163

> If BTC hits $100K AND Trump gets elected AND Gary Gensler gets fired AND the FED does a few rate cuts AND the stock market does well AND my Alt gets an ETF, then my Alt will surely moon! - $100K BTC, $110K BTC, $120K BTC! - Pro-Crypto Scammer President! - Gary Gensler fired! - FED cuts rates 3 times! - Stock market up 15% YTD! - ETH gets an ETF! ETH still -35% from 2021 high - XRP gets an ETF! XRP still -50% from 2018 ATH - LINK gets an ETF! LINK still -35% from 2020 high - LTC gets an ETF! LTC still -80% from 2021 ATH - HBAR gets an ETF! HBAR still -80% from 2021 ATH *What is the investment thesis for Alts now? What could possibly propel Alts to new ATHs?* > Consolidating, when we boom to 110k alts will go bananas (December 2024) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1hcz79l/daily_crypto_discussion_december_13_2024_gmt0/m1uit1k/ > btc to 110k tmr smashing the alts to outerspace. (December 2024) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1hhfmsi/daily_crypto_discussion_december_19_2024_gmt0/m2sq87h/ > BTC dominance can still go higher. We would need a leg up to 110k more or less, consolidate there and then alts will go ballistic (December 2024) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1hcz79l/daily_crypto_discussion_december_13_2024_gmt0/m1wde9n/

biba8163

> If BTC hits $100K, Trump gets elected, Gary Gensler gets fired, the FED does a few rate cuts, the stock market does well AND my Alt gets an ETF, my Alt will surely moon! - $100K BTC, $110K BTC, $120K BTC! - Pro-Crypto Scammer President! - Gary Gensler fired! - FED cuts rates 3 times! - Stock market up 15% YTD - ETH gets an ETF! ETH still -35% from 2021 high - XRP gets an ETF! XRP still -50% from 2018 ATH - LINK gets an ETF! LINK still -35% from 2020 high - LTC gets an ETF! LTC still -80% from 2021 ATH - HBAR gets an ETF! HBAR still -80% from 2021 ATH What is the investment thesis for Alts now? What could possibly propel Alts to new ATHs? > Consolidating, when we boom to 110k alts will go bananas (December 2024) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1hcz79l/daily_crypto_discussion_december_13_2024_gmt0/m1uit1k/ > btc to 110k tmr smashing the alts to outerspace. (December 2024) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1hhfmsi/daily_crypto_discussion_december_19_2024_gmt0/m2sq87h/ > BTC dominance can still go higher. We would need a leg up to 110k more or less, consolidate there and then alts will go ballistic (December 2024) https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1hcz79l/daily_crypto_discussion_december_13_2024_gmt0/m1wde9n/

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Despite numerous positive factors such as increased liquidity, pro-crypto government policies, ETF launches, and institutional investments, the crypto market remains down, with a 32% drop in total market capitalization from its all-time high. Analysts suggest structural issues or selling pressure from long-term holders and technical traders as potential reasons. While some believe a bear market is underway, others highlight significant structural progress in the industry, including regulatory shifts and increased adoption of tokenized assets. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

stupiddodid

Outflows in ETF's for the day, so not that

Amber_Sam

TLDR: Get Strike (KYC) or PeachBitcoin (no KYC). Read/bookmark this guide and make sure to learn along your journey. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dca.bitnob.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. Use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor) [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

Original-Assistant-8

"Japan locked in the plan during the September board meeting and agreed to sell ¥330 billion per year, a pace so slow it would take roughly 112 years to finish if nothing changes. People familiar with the internal talks allegedly said the bank wants the flow of ETF sales to feel almost invisible," Somehow I think the news is trying to shake people but we know how big money is usually ahead of the story and then will flip the script after they've bought back in. We shall see

guyhersh

Ironically safer investing in a bitcoin ETF.

silentapexresearch

Mostly watching ETF flows today. Spot BTC ETFs pulled in ~450M+ in fresh inflows, which feels like real rotation rather than retail volatility. Anyone else tracking how Fidelity + IBIT are eating market share this week?

wake5

without ETF inflows things would be more volatile so not necessarily

Advanced-Summer1572

Nah the rich are creating a Bitcoin Treasury industry. You know a lot no question. But you can't see what is actually growing right in front of us. A multi trillion dollar industry based on Bitcoin. It is happening. The old stuff about things ending? A fantasy from the youth of Bitcoin. As of last week Bitcoin is now collateral. Game changer. Now the owners of Bitcoin can underwrite any deals in the world and have the full backing of banks. Not game over for retail investors, but you better make sure you own at least a fraction of a coin, not just an ETF.

VariatCA

Everyone looks for immediate correlation and results, when often there are other concerning factors complicating the matter and stalling growth / momentum. That impatience is often what drives Retail to capitulation. It reminds me of when the BTC ETF launched in January 2024. Everyone had such high hopes, they were seeing positive inflows reported, and... the price just chopped and dropped for a month. And after people had spent an entire month cursing how we had been lied to by the media, and by wall street... suddenly everything turned full-steam-ahead. Within 5 weeks from early February to early March, BTC was up +60% and set a new all time high.

etaoin314

Total BS, if there were no ETF you would be saying: if only there was an etf bitcoin would be $1M by now

uthillygooth

It’s almost like people buying and selling the ETF can only do it when the stock market is open.

Ok_Coffee_2417

I mean, ETFs are mostly just retail money going trough an ETF here.

BainTrain55

Imagine owning BTC in a spot ETF and paying all those fees just to be down over 12% on the year lol

Conscious-Opposite88

If there was no ETF, BITCOIN would be 250K today⭐This has been said by many great whales, and Saylor himself mentioned it!⭐I don't understand where you've been living!?

Conscious-Opposite88

Trump kickstarted Bitcoin TO 125k run not ETF!!⭐

Conscious-Opposite88

IT is ETF and Leverage!⭐After ETF, no one really buys ORIGINAL bitcoin! I BELIEVE that 80% of ETFs are traded today precisely because of this laziness!⭐

Innit10000

K33 Research data shows that in 2025 alone, nearly $300 billion worth of previously dormant Bitcoin re-entered circulation. CryptoQuant reports that the past 30 days have seen one of the heaviest distributions by long-term holders in more than five years. Previously, this selling pressure was largely absorbed by demand from spot Bitcoin ETFs and crypto investment firms, but with ETF flows turning negative, derivatives volumes declining, and retail participation weakening, the additional supply is now being released into a more fragile market. — link Tldr OG wallets have been dumping a ton this year.

BacchusAndHamsa

not gone if the ETF holds. Strange the mindset of people who think "I'm making money" or "I'm losing" if the thing they hold goes up and down. You only lose if you sell in a dip that went lower than what you bought in at.

TheFudge

I was talking to the guy who handles my retirement accounts today, going over our portfolio. I asked him AGAIN when I would be able to buy the BTC ETF because I have been bugging him about it since it was available and it’s always been “no they wont allow that because it’s too risky”. His response today was “you can buy it but you have to have at least 2M in assets” I’m like WTF!?!? All I heard was “the rich can access it now but not the poors” so glad i opened a separate Roth IRA to buy a bunch of the ETF when it first came out.

2alphastyle

Does this matter now that most of the coins that are moving are held by institutions? If black rock is only selling newer coins to balance their ETF and bitcoin treasuries are doing the same, is this relevant? Even if the underlying coins themselves are showing a loss, that doesn’t mean that the shares of the ETF or a company’s stock are being sold at a loss. It doesn’t mean the opposite either. I think the situation is much more dynamic and difficult to analyze now.

718Brooklyn

At the risk of going into what ‘the vision’ was, I think it’s safe to assume that no one was hoping that one day it would be hoarded by corporations and more or less just a trading mechanism for banks to print money on ETF fees.

Amber_Sam

Welcome aboard. We all have been where you're at right now. Read/bookmark this guide and make sure to learn along your journey. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dca.bitnob.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. Use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor) [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

Big_Witness

How can I, a layman, pocket profit off of this obvious manipulation? Reverse leveraged BTC ETF when it hits 89?

Big_Witness

89 to 85, 89 to 85, 89 to 85... who has the balls to buy reverse leveraged ETF next time it hits 89?

WaitingOnPizza

ETF's can be fine as long as you're not dealing with an admin that's decided that regulations are.. Who knows, woke? All to enrich themselves, of course.

destinationexmo

remember all that reluctant from the SEC to approve spot ETF due to them opening doors to price manipulation?

Cautious-Lecture-858

The institutional selling pressure is massive. Half a billion in Ether ETF outflows alone. Smart money is relentlessly dumping on retail.

DigitalHierophant

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd say anything with an ETF is fair game simply because of the additional institutional liquidity flowing through them for trading purposes. I'm not saying they'll make meaningful projects, but still something to make money on (à la Litecoin for example)

AutoModerator

Post is by: OnChainSpecter and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1pppjq2/institutional_bitcoin_allocations_brazils_largest/ Brazil’s largest private bank, Itaú Unibanco, recently suggested that investors consider a small Bitcoin allocation (around 1–3%) as part of a diversified portfolio. What’s interesting is the framing: this isn’t positioned as a speculative trade or a high-conviction bet, but rather as a hedge — particularly against currency risk and macro uncertainty. The recommendation comes after continued weakness in the Brazilian real, with Bitcoin viewed as a non-sovereign asset that behaves differently from local equities and bonds. Itaú also referenced regulated access via a local Bitcoin ETF (BITI11), highlighting how institutions increasingly prefer structured vehicles over direct self-custody. This mirrors a broader trend we’ve seen globally: Bitcoin being discussed less as a “trade” and more as a portfolio component, especially in emerging markets facing FX volatility. Curious how others here think about this: Do small BTC allocations (1–3%) meaningfully improve risk-adjusted returns, or is this mostly narrative management by institutions? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

DryMyBottom

it’s a roller coaster even on the ETF side of BTC

VariatCA

It's going to be a very interesting two days to end this work week. ETF's get another shot at 86k BTC from tonight's prices, and if stocks can *finally* muster up some green tomorrow we could see another charge towards 90k as it attempted this morning. Though the BoJ decision looms, and won't be settled until between Thursday & Friday's U.S. trading hours, we'll find out by Friday if the market did its necessary prepwork for the rate hike and can finally breathe a sigh of relief.

VariatCA

I have no idea, but ETF purchases/sales are known to be conducted relatively in "bulk", often near the beginning of operating hours and again towards the end of their day. If the initial wave of purchases at market-open included ETF buys, it's extremely unlikely that the wave of sales during the reversal involved any of them.

Neat-Gap-8383

Yes, Bitcoin’s volatility has changed as derivatives markets matured. But it has not been “killed,” and it is not structurally impossible for BTC to have fast moves. What has happened is volatility migration, not elimination. Short-dated options (including daily expiries) absolutely affect short-term price behavior. When dealer positioning is large, hedging can create pinning, mean reversion, and suppressed intraday ranges around key strikes. We see this in SPY, BTC, ETH—any sufficiently liquid market. That part is real. Options shape how price moves in the short term. Where the argument breaks is the leap from “intraday volatility is damped” to “BTC can never have large moves again.” Options markets influence paths, not outcomes. They smooth the journey; they do not cap repricing when real capital flows or macro shocks occur. Current data contradicts the “structurally impossible” claim outright. Even in the past year, Bitcoin has experienced drawdowns on the order of ~25–30% and multi-week directional moves tied to macro conditions, ETF flows, leverage unwind events, and risk-off regimes. That is not stablecoin behavior. That is a macro asset repricing under different volatility regimes. The SPY comparison is also misleading. SPY doesn’t move 2–3% most days—but it absolutely reprices materially over weeks, months, and years. The presence of 0DTE options didn’t stop 2020 or 2022. It changed the texture of volatility, not the market’s ability to move. Bitcoin is undergoing the same transition. What’s actually happening is financialization. Bitcoin is moving from a thin, retail-driven market with violent gaps into a deep, institutionally traded asset where volatility clusters around events, not random noise. Intraday chaos is lower. Trend moves still exist. Volatility has shifted from constant chop to episodic repricing. Also, volatility was never Bitcoin’s core value proposition—it was a side effect of immaturity. High volatility attracted traders but repelled long-term capital. The reduction in volatility is precisely what enabled ETFs, pensions, and balance-sheet exposure. That wasn’t an accident; it was a requirement. So the honest framing is this: Bitcoin is no longer a retail casino asset. Derivatives and institutions compress short-term volatility and reduce reflexive blow-offs. That makes fast, random pumps rarer—but it does not prevent sharp moves when macro, liquidity, or positioning regimes change. Volatility hasn’t died; it has become more conditional and more macro-driven. If someone’s thesis depended on Bitcoin behaving like a penny stock forever, then yes, that version of BTC is gone. But that’s not structural death—it’s market maturation

VariatCA

So that spike in price at market-open may not have been Saylor spot-buying at all, but rather ETF's this morning. Today is the highest day of Bitcoin ETF +inflows in well over a month, at +$457 Million, spearheaded by Blackrock with +$112M and Fidelity with *+$391M* worth of purchases today. https://imgur.com/a/g0oESMo

CleanRefrigerator37

You can read cointribune, TLDR crypto newletters, CoinMarketCap and Coingeclo for charts and infos. The SOL ETF, JP Morgan interest in solana, the bridge with Ondo, visa using USDC for payment solution. DeFi app, the résilience to a massive Ddos attack, the SOL ecosystem is florishing and growing fast. Just a reminder, SOL start 5 years ago...

Citizen_Kano

I have way more in cold storage than I do in the ETF, I doubt it will be tax free in most places though, at least not any time soon

Academic_Attorney996

ETF is a paper bitcoin. They hold your keys, just like "Ben Freeman" FTX collapse. This will be another FTX 2.0 coming. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

tmoe_OW

But what is the real risk if you're holding under the insured amount? If the ETF goes down, then the whole asset class goes down. And if they can't pay out you selling your coins, then the government will. Also what do you say about the ETFs and financial institutions that promise they're not using leverage?

WellieWelli

Do you think recent adoption and institutional interest is a big step towards this? Reserves, corporate investment, ETF etc.

JuxtaposeLife

Wall Street has its hands all over Bitcoin now... options, derivatives, basis trades, ETF wrappers, you name it. In the short run that means suppression, games with paper claims, and a lot of people thinking they “own” Bitcoin when they really just own IOUs. But this structure can only end one way. Traditional finance is obsessed with quarter-to-quarter performance. They’ll lean into leverage, rehypothecation, and yield games as far as they can push them. When it eventually breaks (as it always does) the usual playbook is to ask for a bailout and print more money. That’s the problem for them: **you can’t print more Bitcoin.** When that moment of stress finally hits, the scramble won’t be for more derivatives, it will be for actual coins on-chain. I don’t know when it happens, but I could easily see a single face-ripping candle north in a day... as the market tries to reconcile years of paper claims with a fixed 21M supply. That’s why cold storage matters. That’s why I’m wary of IBIT, other ETFs, and layers of derivatives as a primary “Bitcoin position.” They’re convenient and regulated, sure... but at the end of the day they’re still claims inside a system that can haircut, gate, or settle you in fiat instead of sats when things get rough. Owning your keys is the only way to be sure you actually own the asset everyone will be scrambling for when the music stops.

NilNow

BTC retook its high before the halving this time around. Really started moving big in late 2023 with the ETF approvals. 2024 was closer to previous bull run years than 2025 which possibly won’t have even been an up year for any crypto by the end. Spring 24 was the peak for many alts this cycle.

YogurtCloset3335

All they need is signoff from the Blockstream Core devs (aka the CIA) and a quick hard fork on all of the mining nodes. Quantum threat is an emergency so that's a good excuse to ram it home. A BTC hard fork is even mentioned in Blackrock's ETF prospectus.

I-Feel-Love79

Doesn’t the ETF maintenance fee compound over the years of holding?

SaylorOfEntropy

This only looks chaotic if you confuse turbulence with failure. Bitcoin is not a penny stock. Penny stocks fail because their rules are weak and discretionary. Bitcoin’s rules are immutable, scarce, and provable. What you are seeing is surface volatility from leverage, derivatives, ETF rebalancing, and liquidations in a 24/7 global market. In physics, turbulence increases with speed. A jet at rest is calm. A jet at altitude hits turbulence because it is moving fast through dense air. Bitcoin volatility is the same phenomenon. It is the cost of velocity and scale. A 3 to 5 percent swing is not manipulation. It is price discovery under high energy conditions. The protocol did not change. Supply did not change. Hash rate did not change. So ask the only question that matters. What does any of this have to do with Bitcoin? Nothing. The asset is fine. The network is fine. The noise is just humans colliding leverage into a thermodynamically sound monetary system.

LargeSnorlax

The 3rd option was actually what Canada did until 2018. Then a few exchanges collapsed and they realized that they'd been completely ignoring an entire monetary system had been running for a decade, and their citizens were gaining fortunes and losing their shirts with literally zero oversight from the government. They finally took steps to start regulating exchanges and doing proper framework of crypto as an asset. The US has *finally* started to take its first baby steps towards this but they're still far behind, I'd say 3-4 years behind right now. Canada did its first spot bitcoin ETF in 2021, US did it in 2024, so they have a bunch of catching up to do. I'd say within a few years Bitcoin is looked at as a more legitimate investment as the framework and legal structure forms around it. The previous US policy on crypto was *"Ignore it and treat everyone who uses it as criminals until it causes problems"* which proved to be a pretty terrible policy.

VariatCA

Probably a large spike of ETF purchases at market-open, which liquidated a surprisingly high amount of shorts to help push the price up to 90k. Then the stock market had to go and immediately fall off a cliff, driving selling & shorts to pile back on. BTC's been fighting pretty hard, considering stocks have just been sliding down for almost a week straight now.

FriendlyBuddy1454

Only reason I tease this range is because that’s what price range institutions like strategy and ETF inflow companies started accumulating stock of crypto for their baskets and treasuries, it’s likely to return to these levels over the course of their few years until some more adoption and users join the market which is highly likely since the next phase of money and currency is energy stores of value, which bitcoin is already doing. I would highly suspect btc to reach $1M USD per 1 btc by 2035

Wiltockin

A $100 investment in the Vanguard S&P 500 ETF (**VOO**) at the beginning of 2020 would be worth approximately **$205.80 today**, assuming all dividends were reinvested. 

Pure-Fuel-9884

ETF does not mean whales or institutional investors, wtf people having hard time understanding it?

Budo00

If someone's expressing Bitcoin fatigue—feeling burned out from the volatility, endless hype cycles, or the current dip—here are some empathetic, balanced things you could say, depending on the vibe. Right now (mid-December 2025), Bitcoin's hovering around $87,000–$90,000 after peaking over $126,000 in October, with low volumes and ETF outflows signaling widespread exhaustion. It's on track for a rare annual loss without a major scandal, just plain market weariness. Empathetic and Neutral Responses (If you want to validate their feelings without pushing): "Yeah, I get it—the constant ups and downs are exhausting. It's been a wild ride this year, and right now everything feels stuck in neutral. Totally fair to tune out for a bit." "Bitcoin fatigue is real. We've seen these quiet, frustrating stretches before where nothing exciting happens. No shame in stepping back and focusing on other things." Encouraging for Long-Term Believers (If they're open to a gentle nudge): "These boring, sideways phases are actually the feature, not the bug. The hype brings in the crowds, but the quiet times filter out the tourists and let the network keep building. Hang in there if you believe in the fundamentals." "Zoom out: Even with this dip, Bitcoin's still up massively over multi-year cycles. Periods like this (low energy, fear in the air) have historically been when smart accumulation happens. Extreme fear often marks turning points." "Buy the dip? Only if it fits your plan—but yeah, weakness like this has preceded big moves up in past cycles. Patience is the hardest part." Light-Hearted or Meme-Inspired (To keep it fun): "Welcome to the fatigue filter. The ones who stick around through the boredom are the ones who win long-term." "HODL through the snooze fest. We're all gonna make it (WAGMI)... eventually." If They're Really Over It "No worries if you're done—crypto isn't for everyone, especially when it's dragging like this. Plenty of other ways to invest or just live life without checking charts every day." The key is empathy first. Bitcoin's history is full of these lulls (2014–2016, 2018–2020, 2022), and they've always ended with new highs eventually. But forcing optimism on someone who's tapped out rarely helps. Listen more than you talk.

shizzlethefizzle

it's just a "spot"- ETF, for now. there is a difference.

satoshisfeverdream

You missed the fight, it already happened years ago. As far as governments / banks are concerned we’re entering the join first win phase. Banks were just green lit to custody in 2025. That didn’t happen by accident. Black Rock isn’t going to just give up IBIT which is the fastest growing ETF in history.

No_South_9912

Might as well buy an ETF

creamer143

If you invest in the ETF through a Roth IRA, capital gains are tax-free. Otherwise, it makes no sense to do this. 

paperlevel

Absolutely no way this can fail now that BlackRock is involved. Larry Fink does not follow trends he dictates policy to the government. As soon as the ETF launched I went all in.

Few-Education-5613

I paid $0 tax when I took $90k in gains this year by selling the bitcoin ETF this summer. How dumb of me.

andys811

Sounds like they actually have a brain, good to have BTC and ETF in tax advantaged account. If your gonna switch it over better to do it when BTC is down, especially if you are so you could tax farm losses and not have any capital gains on the way back up

SpendHefty6066

Every single ETF investor.

Nagemasu

> ETFs will probably get rugged at some point. lol fucking what. I don't know if you're suggesting the price of ETF's is going to stop reflecting the value of BTC, or that someone is going to steal the BTC in the ETF. Either way, neither of those are going to happen. I mean, someone might steal the BTC, but that won't impact the ETF itself because the fund manager will be responsible for replacing it.

rgnet1

How cool and what a great tool! It's so sad to think about the number of people who believe they have bought bitcoin but never got closer to it than a number in their exchange account, or worse, shares in some ETF or trust. Bitcoin is pure, neutral math, governed quite simply by thousands of people who choose to run the same piece of software that validates transactions on its public ledger. As an individual, you can run a "lightweight wallet" to avoid downloading the entire blockchain, but you're still directly interacting with the simplicity of bitcoin. It's so so sad that the bank's narrative has gone from "bitcoin is for criminals" to "use us as custodians for your bitcoin because it's oh-so-complicated". The most free, permissionless, sound money to ever exist; nothing to stop anyone from the planet using it and accepting it for payments; and all the majority do is either ignore it or give up control freely back to banks.

ExtremeIndependent99

My wife is even too dumb to understand stocks. The ETF secures my family if I die.

ghostchihuahua

Yes, look at how ETF’s are abused since they exist for instance - bitcoin-filled ETF’s effectively give MM’s the ability to exert sole leverage on the price, ETF’s are also famous for allowing to hide synthetics fwiw, whether the latter can apply to bitcoin is a tad past my understanding - it shouldn’t be possible bc blockchain, right?

Frosty-Feeling338

Not they don’t manipulate it , you think they do it. They manipulate gold , ETF’s , stocks but not the real btc. Think it they can’t manipulate it like all the other things , they try to manipulate people and in some ways they do it but not all of us !

Mobile-Passenger3214

Average people buy ETF so in the blockchain most buyers are large corporations but many people is actually own by retail investors

EwokGeneral

In regards to XRP ETF's boosting price, currently all that XRP is being bought OTC and not impacting retail traders currently.   Apparently OTC supply is like 2billion ish remaining (doyr, hard to find consistent info on this) but if the ETF inflows can stay roughly positive 2 years or so you could legitimately make a case for a supply shock situation.  Everyone will bring up the fact that ripple releases 1billion XRP from escrow every month (as they should) but most fail to mention that 600-700 million of that gets locked back up into escrow. Those amounts are moved to the back of the line and can not be unlocked until enough time has passed, however ive seen some interesting things about them becoming available for pre purchase (OTC increasing supply to handle ETF inflows.)  Its definitely a balancing act in terms of long term adoption and maintaining momentum - I think a case *could* be made that XRP rises medium-long term but who really knows.  In terms of ripple being granted approval for their bank, I think the biggest thing this helps is solidified  trust from insitutions to help push adoption (one thing ripple really needs to ignite) to really start being able to scale.  Xrps best hope is ripple actually getting adopted and used, xrp stands to benefit from this from the On Demand Liquidity avenue as a use case when operating through ripple.  It seems like they've laid a lot of ground work within its business acquisitions and how it sees itself becoming successfully in the future, but now that things are actually starting to line up this is probably the last 4 year cycle (2026-2030) it has to prove itself and start being used for its purpose.  Obviously dyor on everything :)

harvested

ETF for gold makes sense cause it's a bitch to store and transport. Bitcoin, you're giving up one of the properties that sets bitcoin apart, the ability to truly self custody. There are some tax advantaged accounts that only support the ETF, for now, but this might change over time. ETFs will probably get rugged at some point.

Grangerdanger204

What’s the XRP ETF inflow rate?

No_South_9912

I started with small ETF shares. Easy to trade/track on standard investment platforms. Keys/Exchanges/Wallets/Self Custody can come later as you learn more.

VicoxLegal

Hi! Good question about these classic altcoins from the previous cycle. In 2025, most are still in the top 30 by market cap and maintain active development, although they haven't recovered their 2021 all-time highs: ADA (Cardano): Charles Hoskinson continues to push upgrades (like zk and partner chains), but the hype has died down and it hasn't delivered on all the promises made back then. Solid in research, but slow in mass adoption. VET (VeChain): They just launched the Hayabusa upgrade (new staking and tokenomics), focused on a real supply chain with enterprise partnerships. It's not exploding in price, but it's advancing in practical utility. LINK (Chainlink): It remains the king of oracles, with CCIP growing and a lot of TVS in DeFi/RWA. Strong partnerships (Coinbase, etc.), probably the most "alive" on the list. LTC (Litecoin): Classic for fast/cheap payments, with ETF filings and some index inclusion. Stable, but without major recent innovations. DOT (Polkadot): Upgrades like Polkadot 2.0 and JAM are on the way for better interoperability, but low price and tough competition at layer-0. Ultimately, they have matured more as infrastructure than as "moonshots," and their future depends on real adoption rather than hype.

MarThread

If you want to be serious, invest in ETF, shares, gold AND crypto, not only crypto that the most risky one.

Cptn_BenjaminWillard

A couple suggestions: Add "United States" at the very top. That's obvious when reading through, but not all of us are from the US (thankfully). For example, here in Canada, we aren't limited to a $3000 capital loss annual cap. But there are about a dozen and a half caveats that I could bring up for Canadians. One of the things that I do appreciate about ETF's, even though they somewhat circumvent the purpose of crypto, is that they're more "interchangeable" than many other stocks when it comes to locking in a capital loss (or gain). For example, let's say that I have a gain right now and I'm a corporation and I \[surprisingly\] want to lock in that gain before December 27th, rather than settling in 2026 and deferring tax on the gain for an additional 12 months. But let's say that I also don't want to divest of my asset, because of FOMO, I'm worried that the crypto will run up after I've sold. Let's also assume that since it's an ETF, I have to consider the 30-day rule for wash trading. With an ETF, I could sell everything and immediately buy a different crypto ETF for the same underlying asset. I'd lock in my capital gain, still retain something of almost exactly the same value and trajectory, not have a wash trade problem, and yet not be "out of the market" for thirty days. A minor thing that OP would appreciate, even though it's an example of something that's very much an edge case. PS: It may sound wonderful not to be limited to only claiming the benefits of $3000 per year in capital loss carry-forward, but we in Canada are less lucky in other areas. We can't claim interest expense on a personal mortgage, for example, which I believe may be standard in the US. Learning tax rules in other jurisdictions is always interesting to me. Yes, I'm a nerd.