ETF

Alternative_Camp_109

Lol, you keep repeating "IBIT options", as if only IBIT has options or it is some great mystery. IBIT is just an ETF, one of the ETFs tracking Bitcoin. Just because there are derivatives based on it (and other ETFs) doesn't mean that Bitcoin itself has changed in anyway. Sure, gamblers have more _options_ (no pun intended) now to gamble away, but that doesn't change anything for Bitcoin itself. And read up on point-to-point bias. Every asset class goes through bull and bear markets, and past returns almost always look horrible when you look back from the midst of a bear market.

BrokeButFabulous12

Yea the crazy jumps where btc went from $12 to $50k i dont think well ever see that again. The amount of buy pressure and the money that would have to flow into btc is insane, if anyone thinks that when we eventually get bull market btc will double, thats not realistic. I was in crypto since 2018 and my ETF is doing way way better than crypto. The outlooks on crypto in general are also not good, few years back it was a wild west, you could do whatever, now the governments and banks are catching up with legislations etc. Look at Binance not getting approved in EU so they are clearly pulling out of european market. Im keeping some btc on my trezor but either way im sceptical, IF it ever goes crazy, id still need to cash out smh, either via kyc or non-kyc exchange and then offramp it, the receiving bank is going to ask anyway from where the thousands of $ came. So in conclusion, imo classic stocks/etfs is less problems, one app, more profit...

Traditional_Most105

I've started my journey in crypto too late in July of this year... so take my advice with a grain of salt. I've researched a lot and i ended up with this conclusion: Nobody knows anything for sure and those who say they do in the end don't. All you do is speculate based on what info you gather be it influencers which is the worst, or doing your own deep research on each individual coin's project, revenues, news and stuff like that, that for someone new might take months to learn and understand to read them. And aga8n you could be wrong. Plus the crypto market always changes, with ETF's, regulations, AI. It's not the same as it was in 2021. Many more coins are added which spreads the money flowing everywhere...But because theres expectation of a bull market it might become a self fulfilling prophecy... Some say there will be an alt season and a bull run, others are negative and some others believe that maybe BTC with a few alts will conquer the next bull run... But again nothing is for sure. The safest bets as you know and many people will tell you are BTC and ETH. Lower risk but also lower upside... If you want the safe way go full on BTC and ETH... If not, go again on BTC and ETH but add a few other coins you research and believe in them and might have medium risk and higher upside. It depends on how much risk you want to take. I personally went full into alts... i know the risks, i know BTC and ETH are safer but i accept the consequences of doing so. My approach is to put monthly some money on them and i try to buy the dips when fear if high... i also will hold on to them long term no matter what until my minimum goal of the profits i want to get is reached... i accepted i might lose money on the way... No matter your approach be sure to accept the consequences and be ok with yourself no matter what happens.

dimi727

this reddit is so dead since 2021/2022... all people gone, moons dead. not even alive at ETF bullmarket and bitcoins new ATH :(

Mission-1024

My theory is that investors of BTC ETFs are a a structural disadvantage. They are locked out over the weekend and their stop loss orders get systematically exploited by trading bots when they are. It makes sense that Bitcoin crashes over a weekend, because the ETF suckers are the ones who will be exploited. They will start to withdraw is mass once they figure it out. For BTC to have a long term future, the market needs to and has a natural way of sorting deficiencies like this. I see a dip to 37k before it gets fully sorted. Tighten your seatbelts, I think it’s going to be a wild end of year

Bluejumprabbit

A chunk of that $2.35B BTC outflow is the basis trade coming off, not people losing faith. Those desks sat long spot and short perp for the funding, and with funding negative now they're closing both legs, so the ETF selling and the vanishing perp bid hit at the same time.

104MAS

Why anyone uses any crypto exchange is beyond me. ETF’s have a 1 cent spread and are safe in your Schwab/fidelity acct

KateR_H0l1day

Crypto about 20% my total investment, coins & ETF’s added together, not counting homes or cars etc.

Yodel_And_Hodl_Mode

Yes. Let's look at that. And before some idiot says AI... Oh, hell no. This is cut and pasted from my notes. I started logging this stuff back in 2020. **FIRST CYCLE: 1/3/2009 through 11/28/2012** Cycle top: $31.90 on June 8th, 2011 There's no way to calculate a bottom since the bottom was before Bitcoin had any value at all. **SECOND CYCLE: 11/28/2012 through 7/9/2016** Cycle top: $1,241.90 on November 29th, 2013 Cycle bottom: $91.70 on February 21st, 2014 92.6% decrease. **THIRD CYCLE: 7/9/2016 through 5/11/2020** Cycle top: $19,870.60 on December 17th, 2017 Cycle bottom: $3,177.00 on December 15th, 2018 84% decrease. **FOURTH CYCLE: 5/11/2020 through 4/19/2024** Cycle top: $68,990 on November 10, 2021 (Though we climbed above it, reaching $73,740 on March 14, 2024 in the lead up to the halving, which never happened before. It was caused by the launch of Bitcoin ETFs) Cycle bottom: $15,504 on November 21st, 2022 ...77.5% decrease (I don't count the ETF effect in early 2024) So, yeah, the drop from top to bottom during each cycle keeps going down. 92.6% --> 84% --> 77.5% **FIFTH CYCLE: 4/19/2024 through 2028** Cycle top: $126,200 on October 6th 2025 Cycle bottom: ? $57,832 on July 1st 2026 ...54.1% decrease, if 57.8k holds. Looking at it this way, it seems like we're probably due for a bigger drop, but I wouldn't be surprised if 57.8k holds due to the amount of institutional money that's been pouring into Bitcoin. The lower it goes, the bigger the incentive there is for other major players who felt like they missed their opportunity to jump in to finally do so. Personally, I think we're in good shape. I know a lot of people are freaking out, but as a long term holder, I'm buying.

financeguruIB

When trading opens on Monday ETF outflows will continue, MSTR will free fall and the NVIDIA FUD will bring it down more

froz3nt

Yeah thats pretty much my point. Self custody means nobody owes you anything, same as gold at home. But ETFs arent "reimbursed". IBITs prospectus says the trust doesnt insure its bitcoin at all. It lists a 320m crime policy shared between all of Coinbases customers, against tens of billions in custody. Thats insurance that might cover a slice, not a law that says you get your money back. And if you hold it through a bank or ETF its not sovereign anymore. You pick sovereignty or recourse, you dont get both.

Subject-Chest-8343

Because it isn't relevant... MSTR isn't an ETF, they don't sell bitcoin when people sell the stock.

Starkey18

I won’t buy until 40k or so. Thats around the ETF launch price point. Anything above that feels overpriced to me

Live-Finger1428

CPI probably caused the first punch through liquidations. The ETF outflows mattered because there was not enough demand waiting underneath. The cleaner signal on Moon now is whether ETH can reclaim $2,100 after the leverage flush. If it keeps failing there then $2,000 probably gets tested no matter what BitMine buys.

azdcaz

That’s not how ETF’s work

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Post is by: Miserable_Zone9964 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1xw9uo7/xrp_etf_outflows_hit_8month_high_as_bitcoin_funds/ Institutional crypto ETPs logged heavy redemptions this week, with spot Bitcoin funds seeing $2.35B in cumulative outflows while XRP investment products recorded their largest weekly outflow in eight months. **Key Takeaways:** * Sticky macro inflation data and hawkish Fed rate pricing triggered broad de-risking across regulated crypto ETPs. * XRP ETF outflows reached an 8-month high alongside $2.35B in Bitcoin fund withdrawals. * On-chain spot volumes suggest institutional desks are trimming basis and ETF exposure ahead of upcoming macro prints. Are you treating ETF outflow spikes as a contrarian accumulation signal or waiting for inflows to stabilize first? Full report & flow data: https://www.coinpaladin.com/article/crypto-daily-digest-2026-11-14 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

N0repi

Jeez. Everyone is so negative. It's dropped harder than this. When the stock market improves, there will be ETF inflows.

marcvv

30% indexes (QQQ and VOO). 30% was in google/Visa/Mastercard. Other 40% in about 50 other stocks and ETF's. Sorry I lost you but the 99% plus of my portfolio is large and has beaten the indices overall for the last 1, 3, 5 and 10 years. I nibbled on some crypto just to have some but it was a waste. Will use the sale to offset some large cap gains

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Post is by: Miserable_Zone9964 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1xw6oes/bitcoin_gamma_exposure_turns_negative_near_67k/ Options market structure around the $67,000 strike has shifted into a negative gamma regime, meaning market-maker delta hedging now amplifies directional spot moves rather than dampening volatility. **Key Takeaways:** * Dealer gamma exposure flipped negative near the $67,000 BTC level, increasing two-way intraday volatility risk. * In negative gamma zones, market makers hedge by selling into dips and buying into rallies, accelerating breakouts or liquidations. * Spot ETF flows and macro rate expectations remain the primary catalysts testing lower liquidity pockets. What is your read on how dealer hedging around $67K–$68K impacts BTC positioning heading into next week? --- Full report & options breakdown: https://www.coinpaladin.com/article/bitcoin-gamma-exposure-turns-negative-near-67k-dealers-may-amplif-smmh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

RWAWeekly

Honest answer: for most retail users, not a lot yet, and a good chunk of it isn't open to them anyway. Many of the tokenised Treasury and money market funds are restricted to qualified or institutional investors under their offering documents, so the "fund goes on-chain" headlines don't usually mean something you can buy in an app. The more interesting part is the plumbing. Tokenised money market fund shares are starting to be accepted as collateral on trading venues, so margin can earn T-bill yield instead of sitting idle, and it moves 24/7 rather than on bank hours. Tokenised gold is the most retail-accessible slice today: PAX Gold and Tether Gold together are around $5B. On our tracking the whole tokenised real-world asset market is about $21B right now, roughly half of it Treasuries (about $10.3B). Next to the ETF market that's small, so it's still early infrastructure more than a retail product. One thing worth knowing before touching any of it: holding a token isn't always the same as owning the underlying asset. Who the issuer is, whether you have a direct claim, and how redemption works are all spelled out in the issuer's documents, and they vary a lot.

MontrealGameDev

ETF is insured and covered under laws in my country. Some exchange in a foreign country, lol

Few-Chemistry-5840

You don’t like exchanges because you don’t actually own the money and they can freeze it but you bought an ETF as your first time touching it in 2 years???? How do you justify that after listing everything wrong with not actually holding crypto

Alexander-305

One way to separate deleveraging from a real demand shift is to watch perp positioning next to price. As of about 8:30 AM ET this morning, from BloFin's and Bitunix's public market data (we partner with both): BTC perp funding is roughly flat, about +0.0045% per 8h on BloFin and +0.0033% on Bitunix, and BloFin's BTC open interest is about 4,640 BTC, basically unchanged from last night even though price slid from roughly 69.2k to 66.6k over the last 24 hours. If this were still mostly forced long liquidation, you'd usually expect open interest to keep dropping and funding to go clearly negative as shorts pile in. Flat open interest with near-zero funding while price keeps falling looks more like spot selling and missing buyers than a leverage flush, which fits your macro read and the ETF outflows. The point where ETF outflows slow and funding turns negative with open interest falling has historically been closer to where the leverage side is cleared. Just one data lens, not a call.

No-Juggernaut-3309

I think it's a mix. Liquidations can make the drop worse, but continued ETF outflows and macro concerns suggest there's more going on than just leveraged traders getting wiped out.

steelchairframe

A broad index is "real" investing. You're just using a lower risk tolerance method (in a typical broad based ETF). The very definition of investing is to put money into an asset for future returns. The level of risk has no bearing on the definition. I swap you money for a Pokemon card in hopes of selling it later for more. I have invested. But here's a thought, I'll put larger amounts into safer bets and get more nominal dollars as the risk may be less, but the amount im willing to risk goes up. Anyone going "all in" on high beta are just gambling, feel free to ask any wall street hedgie. If you arent hedging, you're gambling.

LinusVPelt

It was absolutely no LLM response in any way. I never said NFTs are used for tickets, I have said that it is a useful application outside collectibles. The numbers of the asset tokenization platform are real, the details are in the platform application. They are invested by Coinbase, for ETF tokenization, and Janus Henderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus_Henderson

imickw

Ok cupcake, so why are there regulated ETF’s for such a product?!? It simply isn’t used primarily for that. I can’t speak for all of crypto (admittedly, most of it is shit-coinery). Bitcoin doesn’t = shitcoin/crypto. Stop generalising, stick to facts and acknowledge that there is a reason Bitcoin exists. Bitcoin is pristine and publicly auditable.

IzmierdaNoGracias

ETF is retail, and retail means regarded

Street_Foundation620

I agree ETF flows are often reactive, but I would separate “oversold” from “good value.” Below $70K can be attractive if spot demand and liquidity stabilize, but oversold can persist while leverage unwinds. Q1 2027 momentum is possible, though I would want ETF outflows to slow and funding to reset before calling it a regime change rather than a correction.

Hoxous

I agree that crypto often moves as one risk asset, especially during sharp deleveraging. When liquidity tightens, Bitcoin, ETH, and most altcoins tend to correlate because positioning, funding, and risk appetite dominate individual fundamentals. I also agree that ETF outflows are at least partly reactive. Several studies find that ETF investors often sell after price declines and buy after rallies, so flows can follow price rather than lead it. That said, I would be careful treating “below $70K is good value” as a standalone signal. A lower price is only good value if the thesis, demand, liquidity, and macro backdrop support it. Oversold can stay oversold for longer than expected, especially when leverage is being unwound. Q1 2027 momentum is possible, but it feels more like a scenario than a forecast. I would want to see spot demand stabilize, funding reset without another liquidation cascade, and ETF outflows slow before treating this as a regime change rather than a correction.

Shoddy_Peanut7320

It could add some pressure, but passive selling from an index removal is usually spread out before the effective date, so a good part of it may already be in the price. I'd treat it as one factor among several, along with leverage unwinds, ETF flows and the general risk-off mood. The date to watch is the effective date in late November, when the forced selling would actually hit. If you like seeing how news like this moves stocks, Cymetica's Event Cards group real stocks around a news event with a sourced report.

Fresh-Conference574

It’s sad because it seems like the entire market moves as one. Either all up or all down. Obviously you get the rare exception due to some news about an individual cryptocurrency but for the most part it’s just all collectively moving together. The way I see it, a lot of negative events happening back to back is affecting every market in the short term, but I still see it as a great buying opportunity right now. The ETF outflows are all reactionary rather than indicating a broader market trend. It will reach a point where it’s oversold, maybe we’re already in that phase. I think we will see it regain momentum Q1 2027 just based on that fact but can’t say how low it will go until then. Anything below 70k is good value for me.

Romanizer

Not Bitcoin but Strategy stock and Bitcoin ETF (IBIT): https://finance.biggo.com/news/0a457e18-10df-4e75-bb4b-ac4194e5df9c Due to Basel III risk weighting, buying Bitcoin is not a good idea yet.

AoideusWasBanned

My guess is ETF flows follow risk appetite more than they lead it. They seem to react to the same macro mood as everything else, just a bit slower. The liquidations explain how fast it dropped, the macro side explains why nobody is rushing to buy it back. Just an educated guess though.

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Post is by: Street_Foundation620 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1xvrnhq/bitcoin_below_70k_extreme_fear_etf_outflows_and/ Bitcoin is trading around $68K after breaking below $70K. The market has seen large liquidations, continued spot ETF outflows, and sentiment has dropped into extreme fear. I am not trying to call a bottom or predict the next move. I am more interested in how people are interpreting the current setup. My read is that this looks less like a single crypto specific event and more like a broad risk-off move. Inflation concerns have increased expectations of further Fed tightening, while ETF flows have weakened. At the same time, leveraged long positions were liquidated, which can amplify the move beyond what spot demand alone would suggest. Some people see this as capitulation and a potential accumulation zone. Others argue that as long as ETF outflows continue and macro conditions remain restrictive, calling a bottom is premature. I am curious whether people here view ETF flows as the main marginal buyer, or whether they see them as a lagging indicator that follows broader risk appetite. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

No_Guidance_9063

Well, since the SEC institutionalized BTC with ETFs, I’d say Wall Street is now the house. It used to be the Whales, but with large brokerages selling BTC ETF, BTC tracks with the NASDAQ now. Just my opinion.

Afr0Karma

They gonna come after my ETF. They better not send a hot Chinese spy in my dms because I would hate that. 👀

Norman209

My prediction as well. Possibly 45 due to the ETF's this time.

AcostaJA

People g ETF liquidating Bitcoin to buy nVidia' s dip

StaggOLee

For the institution, it allows them to market their products, like an ETF, to a much larger audience than just people who have access to a broker (schwab, robinhood, etc.). For the individual: In America, UK, etc this is trivial since every citizen basically has banking, credit, identification all connected behind the scenes. It requires more work in a lot of countries to get access to a broker where you could purchase an ETF if you wanted to. Now they can buy the ETF via the crypto's DEXs. For the token hodler, the increased network activity brings the hope of higher token value. For the crypto community, it legitimizes the crypto as serving an actual and massive business demand. (Not a complete list of the stakeholder benfits)

IShootWide

And I’ll also be right. Stay ignorant and keep losing money. I shorted the ETF and made a killing. Still a LOT further to go…..lol.

chainglance_cm

The liquidations are leverage, sure, but ETF outflows and Fed hike bets are real money choosing to leave, and that part doesn’t get flushed out in a day. I’d watch funding and open interest more than price. If OI has actually dropped and funding goes negative, shorts get crowded and a relief bounce gets more likely. But a bounce while ETFs keep bleeding usually gets sold into, so I wouldn’t read much into one green week until those flows flip.

No_South_9912

ETF outflows when the market opened causing leveraged positions to cascade.

rtublin

I bought some of that ETF corn

hangukfriedchicken

Three major headwinds has worked against Bitcoin since October 1st: 1. Sustained ETF outflow in the billions 2. CPI raised risks of further hikes beyond Dec’s sure thing 3. Binance Hack reduce confidence in safety in holding crypto 4. Strategy being removed from MSCI index reduces ability for BTC’s biggest buyer continues to buy 5. Jensen’s dick and subsequent Tech sell-off and concurrent risk off environment Now spot pricing is dangling the crucial 200wMA at 78.5. If it closes below it’s heading lower and could lead to months before pricing recovers. Prepare yourself for pain if it does.

Abject-Stretch-1187

You're the one making definitive statements about the price controls without providing a single evidence. "No new normies entering the space" wtf are you talking about? Who do you think ETF buyers are if not normies? Just because it's an institutional product doesn't mean the buyers aren't new or normies. You don't even understand the basics of the buyers of the market yet you're speaking with such confidence.

Doctor_Fritz

BTC and ETH's flows and expected behaviors have been altered since ETF's were introduced. Institutional players entered the chat linking BTC and ETH to the global economic tendencies, just with larger percentage swings. right before before this rally, Agent orange posted on his twitter clone that you should "buy all the crypto". Shortly after that, bond buybacks were announced resulting in a drop in yields on the bonds market. Both combined showed an influx of a large amount into BTC and ETH, triggering liquidations on shorts and a short spike up. However, the macro didn't change, in fact, it got worse for crypto. Inflation and interests kept rising, with higher yields on bonds as a result. US deficit passed 40 trillion USD. Energy crisis still in full swing and the S&P500 being propped up by just a handful of AI related tech companies, with circular financing and order books hiding the true situation; declining stock values of just about every company in the tracker. The US's tariffs created turmoil on the global trade markets and spike costs of living for every day Americans as a result, then doofus in charge decided to attack Iran and spiked inflation even more. Nothing in the current macro is really in favor of crypto booming the way it did, except for market manipulation by the US president and his buddies and a sweep of large amounts of shorts, a president who now has a 3 billion net worth mind you after two years in office. This entire spike was a grift. I said it before during the first leg up and was met with skepticism each time, because people were just aching for a green candle. Well I hope they sold in time because here we are.

Josef_der_Segler2

well. not exactly. I am more an ETF HODLer. But when BTC is getting cheap, I see the chance buying the dip. I have the luxury to not touch that until I retire in 40+ years.

buebaurbling

Why wouldn’t they use it? Crypto isn’t just about Bitcoin (But BTC definitely makes up the largest part of this market.). We now have stablecoins and RWA tokenization, and the industry is moving toward making a lot of payments happen in stablecoins. The person using them doesn’t even need to know they’re stablecoins. It’s the same story with payments for AI agents. This post also doesn’t have any interesting numbers... not even a mention of ETF outflows or inflows. And judging by what I see in general, hardly anyone reacts to drops anymore, it’s almost like a normal day (which is obviously bad). I’m disappointed too, but that’s the market... and there are still plenty of opportunities here. I wish everyone the best in getting through this bear market, and I hope next year is better.

OkTemporary1937

I would just buy a btc ETF. I know the try hards will say it’s not your btc and you have all kinds of risks but I bet more money has been lost by people forgetting or losing their btc wallets than by being scammed by Blackrock or some such.

quakkids_2

Been in the market since 2017 and honestly, this is the lowest I've felt since then. The other bearmarkets were used to buy more with what little I could save and I remained optimistic we would see a new ATH eventually. This has changed and I decided to exit my positions if I ever see my previous personal ATH ever again. Until then it's pain. The performance has been dog shit for quite some time and the amount of days I regret being in crypto and not just putting it all in an ETF is staggering. Best of luck to all of you

ghostchihuahua

What’s weird is that people still settle with such simplistic concepts as “is a hedge against the stock market” just bc they can’t be bothered to read and treat bitcoin like another commodity. Do you really not see, after all of the noise in the past 2 years, especially about bitcoin ETF’s, how bitcoin price action can be related to market price action and why it is so ? What means do we use to mine bitcoin again ?

Electrical_Ice_2202

I hate idiots who tells that history repeats. No one checks the exchange spot volumes since 2023. There are 3 years of Bitcoin ETF and the volumes on spot exchanges tend to zero. Also, Bitcoin is traded now under 69,000. Under 2021 ATH. More than 5 years and Bitcoin is underwater still. Yeah I am zooming out and I see a f\*\*\*\*\*\*g big problem: Macro Bitcoin is losing a lot of momentum since 2021. Good luck everyone.

Seraph_2026

[Bitcoin ETF Flow (US$m) – Farside Investors](https://farside.co.uk/btc/) BTC hasn't seen any gains in inflow since Oct 10 2025 That's exactly when ATH was. It's going to continue this pattern until new buyers show up.

Remarkable_Gap_3418

Why are you talking about pre-ETF times lol, what a ridiculous comment. I've been a spot holder for years doesn't mean I'm delusional. Who is the new long term investor base in BTC right now? It's largely the same traders entering and existing, trying to time the market. That's why BTC has no narrative other than those defined by other markets right now. Whoever wanted to sell has long sold. Who is left to buy? Just zone trading.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Complete nonsense. So when the price was falling by over 75% prior to the ETF, was tradfi responsible for those drops? You’re just the same type of idiot that shows up every bear market drop fear mongering and nothing more.

ozera202

Dog shit keeps dropping , I’ve actually bought Blackrock ETF for the first time fml

Previous_Valuable873

The incorrect view is that you think it's the administration's job to make it better. Why do you think XMR has been organic 4x in 2.5 years, WITHOUT ETF, without, institutional shilling, without even CEX support as it's banned from almost all....to raise? Because it's used, not like millions of all the other coins. There is only one true crypto ladies and gentlemen and that is not the one that has a transparent blockchain and non fungible, as can be frozen on a whim or blacklisted on addresses.... Well, yeah.

Beginning_Ask_9930

nope. Alts puked last October and BTC has raged. Fragmented chains. BTC has perps, options, and derivatives. The ETF's are settled in cash during Wall Street hours not in stables. Market structure changed and alot of money left and went after tradfi and AI. Market acts more like crypto and easier to set it and forget it.

Beginning_Ask_9930

May no longer be relevant. BTC about to have another down year. Fragmented chains. BTC has perps, options, and derivatives. The ETF's are settled in cash during Wall Street hours. Market structure changed and alot of money left and went after tradfi and AI. Market acts more like crypto and easier to set it and forget it.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

devCheckingIn

If you believe people like Michael Howell, we've been in a global liquidity crunch and it hurts assets like BTC more than any other. Either way, the ETF outflows tell the story and the momentum is still intact. Retail has no money to step in, and those who do are consistently buying the stock market dips. DATs like Strategy and Strive buy some BTC, but nowhere near enough to make up for the newly mined BTC added to the supply every week.

Rainbowfartsss

Its enough to regulate it, not allowing it connections to the banking system for example, in order to keep it handicapped as a financial asset and that way bleed it out. Very unlikely to happen with all the acceptance it now has, and all the ETF’s etc. But as an answer to your statement, something can in practice be banned by choking it.

Scared-Permit2587

It is funny that all the shout from the hilltops self custody "my keys, my btc" crowd have had far more problems than the BTC ETF folk.

read_more_comments

There is nothing worse than an uninformed person spewing nonsense as advise to others. 1. No wallet is involved, it's an exchange. The risk with an exchange is in it being hacked. Thus you have the same exposure holding on coinbase as you do holding IBIT etf. 2. You don't have recourse. You should read the prospectus for IBIT, they have a dozen pages of how you could lose all your money. Here's a sample: ----- 1. Bitcoin theft or hacking: If the custodian's Bitcoin is stolen, transactions generally cannot be reversed. Recovery may be impossible, leaving shareholders exposed to permanent losses. 2. Lost or compromised private keys: If the private keys controlling the trust's Bitcoin are lost, destroyed, or compromised, those holdings could become permanently inaccessible. 3. Coinbase custodian bankruptcy: IBIT relies on Coinbase Custody to safeguard its Bitcoin. Although the trust has contractual protections, BlackRock acknowledges uncertainty about how a bankruptcy court would treat those assets. In an adverse scenario, the trust could face substantial losses or potentially become an unsecured creditor. 4. Insurance is extremely limited relative to assets under management: The prospectus describes up to $320 million in commercial crime insurance maintained by Coinbase Global, shared across relevant Coinbase entities and customers. This is NOT $320 million reserved for IBIT. There is no guarantee that a particular loss would be covered or reimbursed. 5. Limited liability and legal recourse: BlackRock, the trustee, and custodians have contractual limitations on liability. Depending on the circumstances, shareholders may have limited ability to recover losses from theft, operational failures, or other custody-related events. 6. Market disruptions and trading risks: Problems involving authorized participants, counterparties, or the creation/redemption process could cause IBIT shares to trade at significant discounts to the underlying Bitcoin value. 7. No guarantee from BlackRock: Despite BlackRock's name being associated with the ETF, it does not guarantee your principal or promise to replace lost Bitcoin. FDIC insurance does not protect IBIT's underlying holdings, and SIPC protection for eligible brokerage accounts does not cover investment losses within the trust.

kswiss702

Wrong….you loose your wallet, it gets stolen you are shit out of luck….you have re course if your funds are held in the ETF

kswiss702

Actually what you can consider doing is . Buy a majority in the ETF say 75% so you know it’s secure then buy it from and exchange a small amount and learn how to store it on your own

kswiss702

The risk is the security he is new to BTC. I would just buy the ETF through blackrock if you’re new and want to minimize stress that’s the easiest and safest way

Jogi1811

If it was in bitcoin right now and I needed to close on a home this year I would use the $100,000 USD. I believe in the bitcoin cycle but also know this may not continue. Until it breaks I will continue to follow it's trend. There is no point in selling low if you believe there is more growth to be had in Bitcoin. The amount my $100,000 will generate in a long term ETF will be considerably less.

kobriks

Buy ETF. Purists be damned

TheresNoSecondBest

>is there any advice anyone could give me? Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

kswiss702

Buy it as an ETF through a brokerage. Ibit is blackrocks ETF

zachmoe

Just get a schwab account and get the ETF.

Alexander-305

I'd say the flows, at least for ETH. CPI hit everything, but on a 24h basis BTC is down about 2.3% while ETH is down about 4.2%, so there's an ETH-specific seller on top of the macro move, and roughly $550M of ETF outflows in about a week and a half is the obvious one. BitMine is real demand, but ~$20M a week against ~$185M out in a single day isn't close. And since most of its stack is staked, it shrinks liquid float more than it props up price day to day. The 24h low was about $2,003, so $2k has already been tested once. If outflows slow and that level holds, sellers start to look tired. If it breaks while the ETFs are still bleeding, I wouldn't lean on the round number much.

BeautifulSeason8387

200k is without etf... ETF isn't regulate for crypto actually, institutional can sell twice for one buy (and they do), so this decreases the bitcoin potential ath and increase the earning of institutional

growin60sec

I think the ETF flows matter more for ETH specifically, while CPI set the mood for everything. The $184.5M outflow on Monday, on top of $365M the week before, is direct selling pressure on ETH, and BitMine buying about $20M worth is just too small to offset that. CPI explains why risk assets sold off, but the size and persistence of the ETF outflows is what makes ETH look weak relative to the rest of the market. The $2,000 level is worth watching, since losing it could trigger more ETF redemptions.

WakingUpBlind

If you see Bitcoin, or any other asset, as an investment, ask yourself, before investing: (1) your timeline; and (2) psychological tolerance for loss. 1. You made no mention for how long you're looking to hold Bitcoin. But, based on your post, it's short term. This hints that you're looking for a get-rich-quick scheme. It's possible for Bitcoin. However, as you admit, the market is unpredictable. A long term investor (10+ years) would just hold and ignore the day-to-day fluctuations. Additionally, they would buy the dip. 2. It seems that you overestimated your loss tolerance. For a speculative asset, especially as volatile as Bitcoin, you should have a stop loss before entering, which appears that you do not considering this post. If I were in your position and didn't need the money now, I would hold and invest in a low cost, broad based index fund (ETF), build that ETF to the point that the Bitcoin position reaches a point that I am comfortable writing off before speculating again in Bitcoin.

ThereIsNoGovernance

The entire CEX/ETF industry didn't just shot it's foot, it blew it's entire leg off. If you trust these entities you are an utter fool. NOT YOUR KEYS, NOT YOUR COINS.

coconut1890

Let me rephrase what I said so you maybe understand me: if you DCA'd into BTC from 5 years ago until this point, you legit will have been worse off than doing the same in gold or an all-world ETF (and like someone else said, literally in US treasury bills too). No shit buying from the bottom gives you the best gains, as if most people can time the bottom perfectly. This means, from an investor who just wants to DCA monthly, the "BTC is a good asset to DCA" thesis is hanging by a thread. But as I said before, I'm not changing my strategy just yet.

MikeMiller8888

Mt. Gox isn’t a relevant example anymore now that we have mass market adoption with ETF funds.

MelangeBot

Two guys play the Bitcoin game. One started with 10 million dollars, bought Bitcoin once and sold it for 40% gain over 1.5 years to make 4 million dollars. But then he got greedy and put in all his money and lost 10 millon dollars on a margin bet after which he chickened out. He still has 4 million dollars which he put on the bank in an ETF account that makes him $260 000 a year. He gets to spend 700 dollars a day, travelling, doing drugs and fucking bitches. He doesn't even know how to spell Bitcoin. This guy has it all. Another guy started with a 100 dollars and held it for almost 10 years, doing 10x on his money. A phenonemal 1000% return. This guy know everything about Bitcoin inside out, an extremely faithfull believer and hodler. This guy is a fucking loser with nothing.

zachmoe

Start taking gains to turn around and buy the ETF.

menghao_ai

One thing the index doesn't capture: it's sentiment, not a timing signal. The last sub-25 prints bottomed weeks later, not at the print. The $430M Thursday ETF outflow number matters more than the index itself. If scaling in, size for the case where the 74.7k low breaks - splitting buys into tranches beats reacting to the headline number.

icnews10

The Fear Index at 25 tells you how people feel, but not whether the selling is over. The $430 million in ETF outflows is important, but so is the wider liquidation trend. Fund redemptions and forced deleveraging are not the same thing. I'd rather see those pressures subside than treat an extreme fear reading as a buy signal.

fabtico

I don't like bitcoin at all. But for you I like it even less because you're retired and BTC is a extremely risky investment, I would recommend you some dividend ETF

mozy-rama

Congrats!! I was thinking of setting up a Roth IRA account with Fidelity to purchase FBTC. No capital gain tax & tax-free withdrawal during retirement. I already got a cold wallet for self-custody. Stragetically, I would like to reduce risk by not having all my eggs in one basket. Roth IRA setup to purchase crypto ETF seems to be the way. Fidelity is an excellent instuition. Congratulations again!! 0.1 is a milestone. Next goal target: 0.25 BTC. Good luck! Cheers!

LaminatedDenimJeans

Stocks 60% ETF 15%, Bitcoin 15%, ZCash 10%

Designer-Horse-6676

ETF azionari/ bond/ oro/ btc

No_Resolution8762

very diversified... self custody, ETF, coinbase, [river.com](http://river.com), MSTR, ASST

Charming_Bus2484

sadly when hyperinflation comes to USA, bitcoin will go rapidly to 2 billion 3 billion next day etc. like the german currency after WW1. the US government will do all on its posibilities to confiscate, they will not only make crypto illegal, but they will confiscate all of the Bitcoin from ETF´s and public companies residing in USA, just to save their asses. Bitcoin will continue to go up even further even as the government dump those to save their country, but also to people that want to flee the country on a very liquid global asset. and you will be left with 0, learning you didnt bought any bitcoin and it is actually only then when you are gonna actually need it the most. after every single thing in the black market (which will be the only real market) reprice things in satoshis.

Jogi1811

I have 6 ETFs I also purchase with my Bitcoin ETF.

Holywizy

agreed, the index tells you people are scared, not that the selling is done. a few daily closes above 75k plus the ETF bleeding stopping would say a lot more than one number

Alexander-305

Extreme Fear is a useful label for the mood, but I would not treat 25 as a buy button on its own. The index mostly lags what already happened: a sharp dump, ETF redemptions, and equity beta spilling into crypto. By the time it prints Extreme Fear, a chunk of the forced selling is already in the rear-view. That is why "buy every Extreme Fear print" has mixed follow-through across cycles. What I care about more than the number: - Whether $75k holds a few daily closes instead of just one bounce candle - Whether BTC ETF flows stop bleeding for more than a day or two - Whether leverage rebuilds into the bounce (that usually means another flush is still on the table) Sitting is a valid third option when the setup is "sentiment is washed, structure is not." The index tells you people are scared. It does not tell you the selling is done.

AutoModerator

Post is by: Zhytaleks and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1xq07rx/bitcoins_next_big_move_will_institutions_save_the/ Bitcoin's recent sell-off raises an important question: are institutional investors actually making the crypto market more stable? On November 5, U.S. spot Bitcoin ETFs recorded approximately $430.2 million in net outflows, according to ETF flow data. Source: https://farside.co.uk/btc/ This highlights something we sometimes overlook: institutional participation works both ways. **The bullish case** Long-term institutional adoption could create sustained demand for Bitcoin. If major asset managers, pension funds, and other investors gradually increase their BTC allocations, the market could benefit from a broader investor base. **The bearish case** Institutions don't just buy and hold forever. They also rebalance portfolios, manage risk, and respond to changing financial conditions. During periods of uncertainty, ETF redemptions and institutional selling can add pressure to an already weak market. Leverage makes the situation even more complicated. Liquidations can accelerate price movements in either direction. **My perspective** Institutional adoption matters, but it doesn't automatically guarantee higher prices or lower volatility. I think we need to pay attention to three things: Actual ETF inflows and outflows. Spot market demand and trading volume. Bitcoin's ability to reclaim and hold important price levels. Rather than assuming institutions will buy every dip, I'd prefer to see evidence of sustained demand. **Here's what I'm curious about:** Are institutional investors making Bitcoin stronger in the long run, or are they making BTC increasingly dependent on traditional financial markets? And during a major market correction, do you see institutions as potential buyers — or another source of selling pressure? Interested to hear both sides. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

ghostchihuahua

Sure, because as opposed to bitcoin, ETF’s can go to zero value upon a market hickup… Did none of you read the white paper ?

Valyarian

Definitely understand where your coming from, we're in the early innings of the blockchain build out, if Brokers and institutionals truly want to experiment, they need to give all of these guys a chance to prove where they can increase efficency. I also think PYTH and Bittensor will play a big role because Pyth is a alternative to Chainlink's expensive oracle solution which is going to take premise, and Bittensor is creating the ETF for all things AI converging with On chain analystics, while your being an angel investor.

getcoinline

ETF shares vs. owning BTC directly: an ETF in a brokerage or retirement account is simple and tax-friendly in some setups, but you can't withdraw or send it. Owning the coins means you can self-custody, but you're responsible for security. Neither is wrong; just know which one you're buying.

Successful_Taro8587

You don't have any Bitcoin. You have shares in an ETF.

IInsulince

Yes he’s right. To be clear, I agree with him, I’m mocking people who don’t like being told this inconvenient truth that buying the ETF doesn’t let you actually own anything, you’re buying an IOU.

PhoenixProtocol

In what way? Unless Bitcoin will get wide scale adoption, and the average Joe can safely buy / send it to their wallet, it's just not for the average person. Yes everyone (or most people) can learn how to do it, but it's not really an out of the box experience so to speak. At least if you buy an ETF, you're still exposed, can some day in the future sell and buy an equivalent BTC, and you negate some of the major risks that we currently have this year. Let's say you told your grandmother a decade ago to buy bitcoin, bought her a ledger, and now her coins are gone. Unless she might have followed the news (nowadays either Reddit or communities), she wouldn't have known this was going on and could've moved the coins if they were still there. For now btc is just too complicated and that's fine, look how far we've come in the past decade. Most people under let's say 50-60 know at least vaguely what bitcoin is, that's a good thing. Give it another decade and see where we are then.