ETF

low_contrast_black

The cons are “not your keys, not your coin”, and you’re going to be paying admin fees on the ETF. The pro is easy exposure to bit in your tax-advantaged account. Any time you don’t have self-custody, you only have exposure. That exposure is given to you by a third party, and because of that, they are ultimately in control. That goes against the grain of what bitcoin is. Personally, I break it down like this: any non tax-advantaged investment I make in bit is the real deal. I don’t consider it truly mine until it’s been transferred to my wallet. Tax-advantaged accounts, however, already have all sorts of control around them, so I don’t mind utilizing the ETFs for exposure.

JimmyWhatever

I was 30% IBIT 15% MSTR. Sold MSTR down to 5% 61 years old. Will hold till 65, then reduce to 5-10% and primarily go to dividend ETF’s and VOO

Acceptable_Host_8331

It’s Fidelity’s Bitcoin ETF. It allows me to have BTC exposure in his registered education savings plan 😊.

andys811

On-chain wallets doesn't really say much because of exchange custody and ETFs, a huge amount of people will hold on exchanges or exposure through an ETF which you will not be able to see anywhere by looking at on-chain stats

Puzzman

Going off [https://www.strategy.com/](https://www.strategy.com/) They got $8.2 Billion in debt, first batch of $1.01B due in 2028 (can be forced to payout in 2027), average interest rate 0.5% STRD Preferred stock $1.255B issued at 10% STRK Preferred stock$1.4B issued at 8% STRC Preferred stock $3B issued at 10.50% STRF Preferred stock $1.3B issued at 10% STRE Preferred stock $0.7B (USD) issued at 10% So thats a total of $8.8B at roughly 10% So they need close to 1 Billion a year for interest and preferred stock dividends. Based on their current holdings (and current Bitcoin price) is a 2% dilution required. So effectively its just a really expensive Bitcoin ETF atm. No idea how they are going to raise more money to buy bitcoin. But also can't see them getting into real trouble until the first bonds become due.

saki7790

If you want it really easy just get an physically backed Bitcoin ETF where you get all your bitcoins whenever you want . Its Like bitcoin without all the hassle

VariatCA

A positive day of ETF inflows for +$238 Million, even with Blackrock selling another $122M today.

harvested

Haha, you don't hold coins, you're just another wsb degen here to spread fear. Pretty obvious. 46K is funny, people would be backing up the truck to buy at those levels, that's like early ETF launch price.

Head-End-5909

ETF outflows, forced liquidations, retail investors panic selling

GettingFasterDude

At Fidelity you can either do their ETF (FBTC) or buy spot bitcoin on their Fidelity Crypto IRA. My opinion is, spot bitcoin and holding your own keys is better than letting them hold for you. Not your keys, not your coins. But YMMV.

arBettor

"Here in the real world we can correlate the BTC price almost directly with USDT supply curve" No you can't. 1/21/25 - 4/7/25: BTC -28%; USDT Mkt cap +4% 4/7/25 - 10/6/25: BTC +63%; USDT Mkt cap +23% 10/6/25 - 11/21/25: BTC -32%; USDT Mkt cap +4% Negatively correlated, then positively correlated, then negatively correlated. There is no meaningful correlation. "It's telling that your argument is that USDT **supply** has no effect on BTC price." Please point out where I argued that. I'm just poking holes (easily) in your arguments. You thought MSTR was an ETF, you don't know what you're talking about. Go back into hibernation.

VariatCA

Companies/Treasuries are thinking on timelines just a little longer than a couple months. With no immediate need nor desire to sell any time in the near future, they can also put their ETH to work and stake it for a yield... a privilege Blackrock doesn't get to enjoy as a custodial ETF.

Indi_Cat123

Mate XRP hit ATH back in late summer at a whopping $3.66 WOW! It's been a slow burn to the bottom ever since. The real winners are the ones that got early, cashed out near the ATH and are waiting currently to buy back in. Also remember the XRP dick wad influencers stating for certain about the baseline of $3.00 to hold. Yeh now it's under 2 bucks a pop. Don't get me wrong, I've got a pretty bag in XRP, but I ain't expecting any miracles. Also have fun with your shitty ETF's that did fuck all to ''moon'' xrp, isn't that what your folks have been banking on this whole time? It's Saturday in under an hour here... The ETF week is over. But the copium never stops for XRP.

GettingFasterDude

You have all kinds of investments so you must have heard of Fidelity. You can buy spot bitcoin on Fidelity. That’s as easy as it gets. Want even easier? Buy Fidelity’s bitcoin ETF. They buy and hold the bitcoin for you. Doesn’t get any easier than that. But it does!l get easier. Have Venmo, PayPal or cash app? Click a button. You’ve got bitcoin.

YogurtCloset3335

Oh right they don't care at all about their $245 billion Bitcoin ETF 🙄

arBettor

"Most traders know that USDT wash trading has kept BTC price up for years. " Even if you had a survey of traders to substantiate this claim, that doesn't mean anything. Do traders have some special information that the rest of us don't have access to? Tether FUD gets trotted out periodically yet it remains completely theoretical and IMO is completely false. Yet you present it as fact here. First mistake. "ETFs other than MSTR are holding their prices." Huh? Are you talking about bitcoin ETFs? They're gotten crushed alongside the bitcoin price, exactly as expected and as designed. Also MSTR is not an ETF. You're grasping at straws here and making no sense.

Jazzlike_Space9456

ETF’s print bitcoin

Dangerous-Golf-8859

Bitcoin slipping under $84K is basically a sign that sellers are in control right now. A bunch of liquidations and ETF outflows have added extra pressure, so it’s not shocking to see the price wobble like this. People are watching the $78K–$75K range as the next big support zone. The main things to keep an eye on are: whether ETF outflows keep getting worse, what big whale wallets are doing, overall market vibes, which are sitting at “extreme fear”. Long-term, the whole “Bitcoin as an inflation hedge” story is still there because global money supply keeps growing but short-term, the charts basically say: take it slow, don’t get reckless.

isbuttlegz

Lets say Blackrock created a sophisticated technology to mint (create) up to 21 million blackrock dollars over a long period of time. Others saw this work out well so 1000s of other "investment management companies" made up their own dollars over time but most of those companies either disappeared with their own made up dollars or the made up dollars crashed in value like beanie babies in the 90s. If you don't have time to research these so called companies and their imitation dollars then thats fine, most of the time its not worth the risk. We know blackrock has too much power to fail or "rug". Bitcoin is the most sophisticated and highest performing deflationary financial product we've ever seen. There is no other set and forget option in the cryptosphere, I had to learn that the hard way. You can choose to actually buy the asset (which is a bit of a learning curve) or just trade the price action through centralized platform or ETF.

BreeYourSissy

Right, but if you mess up the address, it's gone forever. If you forget those 12 words, like in a house fire, you're done. The downsides to ETF are 1/10 of a percent per year, totally reasonable way to manage tail risk. Likelihood of a house fire in the US is 1 in 400 per year.

Far-Department-4196

For me it was just bad timing, I need to cash in some ETF’s for my down payment on a home.

Notrustjustverify

The fact that you’re buying BTC etf instead of actual bitcoin with self custody and asking for affirmation to your move, means you haven’t understood bitcoin yet. ETF that you have bought is just a certificate which believe it or not can very easily be poofed from your possession by governmental laws.  If you ever want to learn about BTC this is a good resource: https://www.satsvsfiat.com/starter

jcook54

Every time I purchase Bitcoin I throw the same amount at a good ETF or dividend stock to minimize risk (at least in my own mind). It's a mind game but I'm more of a 'buy it and forget about it' investor. It has worked well for me and when I combine that practice with time, it takes the edges of the ups and down.

NotTryingToOffendYou

Looks like wash sale does not apply to crypto but would for ETF version.

NotTryingToOffendYou

Yeah looks like the 30 days does not apply to crypto, but of course would for ETF version. So it should work. Good to know.

Darryl_444

I think on a 4-year cycle it's still technically called investing. Certainly not day-trading, and not even swing-trading as that is defined in days/weeks. But IDC about labels, really. Being honest, HODL would have made me more wealthy over the long term. But with much higher risk along the way. Clarity of hindsight makes that risk seem insignificant today, but of course that's not how it works in real time. And I know myself pretty well: I'm no steely-eyed, diamond-handed perma-bull. There were several long periods of time where I had no BTC exposure at all. Didn't get the timing perfectly right (especially at first) but made good gains each cycle and slept well. On a *risk-adjusted basis*, I'm quite happy with the performance, especially lately (learning curve applies). Now we'll see how the inverse BTC ETF performs (first cycle trying this, will be cautious, averaging in a portion of the recent gains only). PS: All this is a small-ish portion of my portfolio. Most is boring index funds etc. Because I'm old.

Lobolabahia

Fair enough, but that's exactly my doubt, the ETF's playing their part... That's why I was seeing $69K as a potential good entry level, but you may be right... Guess we'll see :)

FinallyArt

Getting close to capitulation here... can only watch it go down everyday for six weeks for so long. Also being in an ETF I'll be helpless all weekend if this pattern keeps up and we're down to 70K by Monday or worse.

_DigiTap

A few things hit the market at once ETF outflows, fear from the tech/AI sell-off, and a lot of over-leveraged longs getting liquidated. That combo pushed prices down fast ))

watch-nerd

The ETF liquidity goes both ways, yes.

CryptographerNo9254

I saw this post somewhere today. “20B liquidated in 24 hours, $41B since October 1st, and not a single clear trigger. No macro shock. No ETF drama. No protocol failure. Just forced selling, thin liquidity, and silence. This is why the CLARITY Act matters: real monitoring, real audits, real transparency. Volatility is normal. Mystery isn’t.”

Sacrificed

Who is the incremental buyer after we already exhausted MSTR leverage, ETF flows, and the Trump government pump? Running out of bigger pools of capital unless we expect people to sell off useful assets (stocks/real estate) to invest in magic internet money.

Rainyfriedtofu

Very good. Bitcoin Crashes Below $82,000: BlackRock Leads Massive ETF Sell-Off as Crypto Faces Liquidity Crunch [https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/](https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/) we know who is selling

Rainyfriedtofu

# Bitcoin Crashes Below $82,000: BlackRock Leads Massive ETF Sell-Off as Crypto Faces Liquidity Crunch [https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/](https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/) we know who is selling

carsonthecarsinogen

I hit a 4x on one of my ETFs but I got greedy and lost half the gains with a 2x ETF😭

Abject-Stretch-1187

I don’t even know why he or she thinks it’s the ETF that’s causing the drawdowns when OGs, paper hands and degenerate traders are most likely the culprit lol 

bananabastard

So it looks like we're having the downside of euphoria, the sobering crash, but without the actual euphoria part. I'd contest the idea that the ETF news brought BTC euphoria. It brought expectation of coming euphoria.

New_Lengthiness7018

That’s because the liquidity went to AI, Tech and Gold this cycle, there was actually Euphoria in 2024 went we went from 60-100+k on ETF news. It’s called diminishing returns from cycle top to cycle top. Those waiting for euphoria are going to be in for a bad time.

GrumpyScroogy

You thought Wall Street would just wave Bitcoin in with open arms? They want their cut and that's not possible through DAT's. They want their ETF fees. Simple as that. They dont give a f\*ck about the price the asset is as long as they get their yearly management fee.

Impossible_Nature849

No, you hit the "sell" button if it's an ETF, or you collected your guaranteed income if it's a single bond. The horror.

No_South_9912

It's going back up over the weekend when ETF holders can't buy.

flossanotherday

Bitcoin teaching the people. ETF’s , new players but same bitcoin behavior as ever, the big moves never disappear.

giottus

OG whales selling has been obvious from the on-chain flows for weeks now. When someone who’s been holding since 2011 drops 11k BTC into the market, that’s real sell pressure not ETF noise, not retail panic. Long-term holders taking profit always shakes the market in every cycle. The important thing is what happens after the distribution phase: new buyers eventually absorb supply and the market resets for the next leg. Nothing unusual here just the classic transfer from old hands to new hands. If you’re long-term, zoom out and keep perspective.

Outsider-Trading

Yeah ETFs accumulated BTC faster than any other ETF asset in history because it's going to zero. Sharp insight from reddit's best minds.

Nearby-End3551

Xrp is going under a $1 again. ETF won't do much to help.

RandomJoe7

What you learned now and in 2021, I learned in 2017 and 2021. This time I did it differently, bought big chunk during lowest bear and sold it last month near the top (not perfect top, but that doesn't matter). The first time I actually took real profits, and I'm super happy about not doing the same mistakes like last 2 cycles. My honest advice from my journey (but obviously, this is not professional financial advice): your exact mindset of "I'm in the minus now, I wont sell now" is what caused me my biggest losses. The "hopium" of thinking I just have to wait and everything will be fine. SomeMost alts I rode all the way to -90%, they will NEVER recover (a major one of those being a Top 5 alt coin in 2017... and now it's barely Top 100 and basically dead). Even holding BTC/ETC through the massive drops after the bull were huge mistakes. Even just selling at break even or loss in the last cycles would have given me much more liquidity to 1) make money (opportunity cost) during the bear with other investments, even if it's just a savings account interest or low risk ETF and 2) to buy much more BTC during this bear. It's a big mistake to just hold on and wait things out for years... it'll end up costing you a lot more than you think.

Y0l0BallsDeep

Shit is different this time. There are a ton of BTC-treasury companies leveraged to the absolute hilt, and once they start getting margin-called, they’ll be forced to dump their Bitcoin. That kind of cascading liquidation will nuke the price so violently that nobody will want to touch BTC with a ten-foot pole for years. If it were me, I’d have a stop-loss somewhere in the $70–74k range and be ready to unload everything. And let’s be real: the average BTC ETF buyer is already underwater at current levels. MicroStrategy’s effective BTC cost basis is roughly $74k — so if that pig starts going tits-up, you’re going to wish you bailed early rather than watched it crater.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) ETF experienced significant outflows in November, shedding $2.47 billion, contributing to a record $3.79 billion in US spot Bitcoin ETF withdrawals for the month. Fidelity's Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund also saw substantial outflows, totaling $1.09 billion. These outflows have pushed November to become the worst month on record for Bitcoin ETF redemptions, surpassing February's previous record. The downturn has coincided with Bitcoin's price drop to its lowest level in seven months. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Jonyesh-2356

2 BTC ETF & rest go to Index fund . 10 yrs wait time & you flip it for 3 houses 😎✌️

SeaworthinessSad7300

ok break it down for me? You sell IBIT and buy BTC and the IRS dont consider it to be buying the same thing. Maybe USA is more loose but here in Australia the ATO will look and see if its effectively the same thing. They would consider an ETF of gold to be the same as buying gold bars. I have read their content on this and if its effectively the same underlying asset they wont let you get away with it

thechonkiestchonk

Can I play devils advocate for a hot second. Not gonna pretend I know anything more than anyone else but I do feel the need to say that “this time is different” yes I know I know. This time though we have ETF flows, less volatility as time goes on, more of a global macro asset with sovereign nations buying and holding and selling Bitcoin, institutional demand is changing, the strategic Bitcoin reserve, the Bitcoin infrastructure is more robust than ever, adaptation is growing, knowledge is spreading. Just some things to think aboot

tornavec

It could get much uglier. If crypto ETF and derivative investors get wiped out, the government will face backlash for ever approving their listing.

Romanizer

US-based institutions with >$100m AUM are roughly 40% of all ETF holdings now, heavily increased in Q3 2025. Institutional buying pressure is there and they won't sell. If you plan to hold for decades, you are currently buying for a heavy discount.

No_Artichoke_5670

No. None of the signs are in. Everyone's been saying since the end of last cycle that this cycle would be more drawn out because of the institutional investing. We haven't had "blow-off top" even yet. Long term hodler whales are still accumulating, not selling. ETF inflows still positive. No miner capitulation yet. Interest rates are falling and DXY is weakening. We're at the last correction right before the final leg, if I had to guess. Whether the top really blows off like it has in previous cycles still remains to be seen, as the institutional investing may dull the parabolic spike.

Accomplished-Stick67

Seriously folks just be ready for $55,000. That was the initial price before Trump and ETF's hyped up. This is a speculative asset. Its not even ment to be a part of the market action. I purchased 2 coins in 2020 sold few months after Trump hyped not buying until April 2026

mikeedla

Nice I will read up on it, feeling good about my ETF but it is newer, pretty confident Bitcoin is going down next year, not sure if it will come back up in 2027 or not

Socialinfluencing

Damn I'm so glad I left this cesspool of a sub after moons got fucked, at least I made a couple grand here and there before it did. Just reading these comments, half these buffoons have either never seen a proper bear market or they are just that dumb. I don't agree with you OP about being a maxi only but 100% see your logic in it. To me alts are just a quick pump and dump scheme, ride the wave and get off immediately if you see a decent profit. But holding them as a real world investment over a period of say 10 yrs? Lmao, 99% of them would screw you doing that so it's pointless guessing which is which. Are there seriously some of you here that actually 100% believe that Btc at over 80k is a sustainable price all things considered, even taking the stock market into consideration? This sub has got to be mainly bots now or those typical crypto bro types that think they're in on some big secret. Some are so arrogant that they say Btc at 50-60k is impossible. Ahahaha! I'm going to screenshot all these comments. If you did even just a tiny bit of digging, Microstrategy was one of the big companies that helped the dotcom bubble to pop, these same guys now hold a huge load of Btc. These are not your average players, Saylor like the rest of these mega capital entities are laughing at all of you. Same story with the ETF, the capital inflows and wash trades are so easy for these people, there's literally 0 accountability so of course they'd do it. Thankfully I'll be here silently scooping when the time is right, I missed 2017 and I arrived late for 2020, so hopefully the world doesn't fall into a war or some other bs when the time is supposed to be right. But suggesting that Btc won't fall to unimaginable levels is a tale as old as the crypto market is. Nobody knows when the true winter hits, no doubt there might be a suckers rally or 2 on the way there, but many of you will be caught out. Look at interest rates, they still have ways to fall, some of you think the crypto market exists in its own plane where real world financial mechanisms can't touch it, well you're about to fuck around and find out over the next 2 yrs towards the halving.

devCheckingIn

Another day of massive ETF outflows. I think this will be the largest month on record by far.

FreeBoss2824

Yes OG Whales are stepping out into a new reality they have earned by incredible belief and persistence, self doubt and pain for sure. This contributes to MORE decentralization, it's a transition from old to new holders. The entire legacy financial system sitting on sidelines, ETF outflows, massive liquidations, weird shit at Binance during dumps, OGs selling, virtually all liquidity flowing into AI, chumps leveraging thinking it'll moon overnight, macro concerns over AI bubble and tech decline...what an absolute beating. I can tell you one thing for sure, yes trust me bro as my source, if you've seen virtually every cycle of this incredible human technology, you're not thinking this is bearish at all. Sure price is volatile that's the feature, but listen to those who've seen the cycles over and over. The conversation about price right now is irrelevant. But I understand it's brutal to see anything you are emotionally invested in drop in value when you are being told it should be doing the opposite. There's anger along with desperation, it's hard out there right now and I know this is painful for many. Please look at what the smartest people in the room are doing and saying. Some of them are here. The OG selling isn't capitulation but distribution. From few to many. This is literally Bitcoin working as designed.

tomsmac

Those are my two as well buddy. He can start making up for it by announcing that the U.S. will buy 1 million BTC within the next five years. Have to think he’s going to do something like this after his new ETF just bought a couple of billions worth. That and those evil spawn of his.

KookaburraTrading

In this case it’s the literal paper hands—the paper holders via ETF rather than the real hodlers via keys.

SnowImportant4517

I call boomers and millennia's buying the ETF's with their 401k euphoria

biba8163

> Cryptocurrency has also been around now for 20 years and it's TOTAL market is less than a phone company (Apple) lol reminds me... > *"2025: $8500"* > This is straight up fud. Not nearly high enough. > 1559 + Merge + Halving + ETF is one of the strongest setups we've ever had. > The company making phones is worth $3T, we will outgrow this. https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18adty2/comment/kby2wyu/

terp_studios

There are a lot of ETF outflows. That’s retail. It can be a little bit of both, nothing in this world is strictly black or white.

RadiantHedgehog2850

There is not one, you cannot analize any markets, it's manipulated... [](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/?f=flair_name%3A%22ADVICE%22)WHY??? Well. Extreme fear is gripping the USA and BTC is suffering for no reason. IF it is self custody, then it is NOT attached to any other markets, just because the US stock exchange drops BTC should NOT AT ALL. It should go up this is just like the massive crash in 17, so why the fuss and panick sale and drops? It has been manipulated by Blackrock I KNEW ETF's should NOT be involved we are here to be our OWN BANK Bitcoin should not be played in the financial markets this is an outrage! They are actually trying to take down BTC so they can have there mighty dollar in control leave BlackRock alone! Here we go again hold on to your britches because these pants are gonna fall down!

RadiantHedgehog2850

[](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/?f=flair_name%3A%22ADVICE%22)Extreme fear is gripping the USA and BTC is suffering for no reason. IF it is self custody, then it is NOT attached to any other markets, just because the US stock exchange drops BTC should NOT AT ALL. It should go up this is just like the massive crash in 17, so why the fuss and panick sale and drops? It has been manipulated by Blackrock I KNEW ETF's should NOT be involved we are here to be our OWN BANK Bitcoin should not be played in the financial markets this is an outrage! Here we go again hold on to your britches because these pants are gonna fall down!

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin's price slump to the $84,000-$73,000 range is identified as a potential 'max pain' zone, signaling a market capitulation and a possible cycle bottom. Analysts highlight the cost-basis levels of BlackRock's IBIT ETF ($84,000) and MicroStrategy's BTC treasury ($73,000) as critical thresholds influencing market sentiment and liquidity. ETF outflows and tightening liquidity conditions are contributing to the downturn, while stablecoin reserves on exchanges suggest potential for future rallies. Macroeconomic factors, including Federal Reserve decisions, remain key to Bitcoin's trajectory. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Darryl_444

Sort of. I'm market-agnostic, not a HODL-er. I'll try to ride the medium-term wave in both directions, to some degree. This is my third 4-year cycle of investing/divesting in this sector, but still have never actually owned any raw Bitcoin yet. Proxies work just fine for me, and save on taxes. First time trying the inverse ETF, though. Got to be careful because they have a built-in decay, so you never want to hold them too long regardless. Last cycle it grew x2.5 while Bitcoin crashed for a year.

Darryl_444

I'm up 16% on inverse Bitcoin ETF so far (one week). This is fun!

Dangerous_Tiger_150

yeah just let all the ETF buyers panic and dump it

steuer2teuer

I think i can answer this. I'm not a whale but i am an OG that sold most of his stack a couple of weeks ago after hodling for more than 10 years without profit taking. For me it's definitely locking in profit, i've held through multiple bull/bear cycles and i didn't want to go through that again the same way. Now, the question is why i did it now and didn't do it before: i think it's because i do feel a bit different about Bitcoin's future as i did previously. Previously, we had the ETF launch and Wall Street's entrance to look forward to. Now it's here but it hasn't resulted in major gains, as a matter of fact this bull run is the weakest one in Bitcoin's history. This shakes the fundamental expectation what Bitcoin's price potential is. We (or atleast i) thought it had 500k-1MM dollar potential in the near future but the realisation has set in, thanks to this bull run, that each bull run actually gets weaker and weaker to the point where we cannot reach these expected values in any short- to medium term. Now i see narratives of "why should i hold this high risk asset if it doesn't give the high potential rewards?" and i am worried that this becomes the mainstream opinion. It is the first that that we are in the situation that Bitcoin doesn't offer major rewards for it's high risk. Bitcoin the network has not changed. Bitcoin as censorship resistant scarce digital value and internet money hasn't changed. It's price potential in the short- to medium term future has changed in the eyes of many people, which has consequences for the future.

JeremyLinForever

There’s something called selling to set up a family trust for his future generations. Having a BTC stack for self-custody is ideal for one person, but when you have multiple family members in the picture, it makes sense to sell off a portion of your stack, set up a trust with the gains, and since he probably still does believe BTC is the premier and best asset to hold, he can set up a brokerage account under the trust name and buy any spot Bitcoin ETF.

22marks

BlackRock, Fidelity, State Street, and every major ETF issuer custody or transact bitcoin today. People do not use gold to buy coffee. Yet gold is used. Bitcoin behaves as a store of value and settlement layer. Most usage is not at point of sale but in global transfers, custody, and savings. That is normal. That is "use."

ConsistentForce3611

Not sure why people just don’t buy the coin. Leverage and long and short positions killed us the last few months. I doubt they learn from their forced closings of their positions either. Wait until all coins have ETF’s and outflows tank you. Literally zero reason HODL, you can buy these coins low multiple times per year. No crypto asset has utility and none of it does anything at all. It’s literally just gambling

CheesecakeIcy3023

not your keys, not your coins. ETF goes against the Bitcoin ethos. You also lose the ability to interact with Defi. I have both hardware wallet and ETF. I still think self-custody is the way to go.

33NoBody33

SOL ETF launched and is now starting to take in inflows You can earn staking rewards from the ETF too

HedgehogGlad9505

ETF is not a payment method. It has nothing to do with the original paper.

Inevitable_Doctor576

Yeah, the difference with this era is that a large proportion of the gains can be attributed to mainstream adoption in ETF's and the first crypto friendly president. We have entered a period where people care more about the profit than the religion of decentralization.

Worried-Joke-821

The only thing we can say about what is going on, is that there are more sellers than buyers. The rest is all speculation. Institutions selling? ETF's selling off is not institutions selling.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; 21Shares has launched a leveraged Dogecoin ETF, offering investors twice the daily performance of Dogecoin before fees and expenses. This launch coincides with FalconX finalizing its acquisition of 21Shares, enhancing its global presence and combining institutional trading with exchange-traded product expertise. 21Shares manages over $11 billion in assets across 55 products, including crypto index ETFs. Despite the acquisition, 21Shares will remain independently managed under CEO Russell Barlow. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Mission_Shopping_847

These are all of the ETF paperhands from yesterday settling today because OTC is exhausted. Expect more fractal drawdown echoes to come.

Horror-Badger9314

Avarage Joe bought ETF and BTC pumped. Avarage Joe has no convictions on BTC, no trust and don’t understand it. Avarage Joe see the price falling and… sell. He is afraid, he doesn’t think it’s an opportunity. The same guys that made the pump now are panic selling.

donjoe0

Where are you seeing considerable retail (non-ETF) interest in any of this? I see Google Trends at \~50 vs. 100 last November.

RamoneBolivarSanchez

1. I hold zero XRP and that comment was meant to highlight how stupid people are when they make it clear they *don’t know how to talk* about crypto (while trying to sound smart) 2. Running a validator doesn’t equate to staking (look up archival nodes) 3. Blackrock doesn’t stake their ETH, they have custodians to do this (Coinbase, Lido, Fireblocks, Kiln, Figment, Stader, P2P). 4. There is literally no “voting” - it’s a matter of nodes running validator clients and upgrading together in accordance. Even with majority stake in Lido’s hands (has been this way for years), nothing has happened and the network still has robust execution and consensus clients. You’re the type of person who should stay out of crypto. Stick to buying ETF’s and sit down kid.

AccordingVariation92

The claims about HBAR are highly misleading or incorrect. Dilution (>95%): Incorrect. The circulating supply is around 85% of the 50B max supply. The actual remaining dilution risk is only about 15%. 16 ETFs: This is a vast overstatement. While HBAR is included in several ETPs and there are high-profile filings for a Spot ETF (like Canary Capital's), there are not 16 known to be currently under consideration. 4 Bank Use Cases: The specific number '4' is unconfirmed, but the general point is correct. Hedera is heavily focused on real-world enterprise adoption, with confirmed, high-profile collaborations with major, licensed banks (e.g., HSBC, Shinhan Bank) for use cases like cross-border payments and asset tokenization.greeting Trump voter.

Worried-Joke-821

Does it matter? ETF's are a perfect instrument for non technical people that get sweaty hands from self custody. Also a perfect instrument for some companies that cannot buy bitcoin but can get the ETF. I can still self custody, so it doesn't bother me at all.

riscten

Unless you're millions in debt and your parents have the most lavish of lifestyles, you're talking about paying $300M in taxes, spending roughly $10M, then sticking the rest in an ETF that, conservatively, would generate $2M/month. Quite "modest" 😂

LargeSnorlax

The lowest level i expect is just above the start of the ETF launch, probably around 50kish. There's too much money locked up that a drop to like 20k is basically impossible these days. Slow burn down? Sure. Slow burn up? Sure. Crabbing around for months? Also sure. Huge drops like we had in the past? Nah.

kaddymate

all we can pray for is increased BTC ETF inflows to pump the price, and then for the extra liquidity to trickle down to the millions of alt tokens.

Background-Day-4957

As more institutions dump bitcoin, the less it follows macro. And vice versus. Institutions like investment banks who invest in spot Bitcoin ETF

No-Reaction-9364

If you are in the BTC etfs you are insured like any other ETF, so up to 500k.

No-Reaction-9364

You can technically invest in an ETF. That is what I do. I am a classical non believer in BTC. I heard about it way back in 09 even. I still don't "believe" in BTC but my other investments are at a point where I think diversification is worth it and so I am just getting some exposure. Plus there are big institutional investors now, so that makes me think there could be more longevity to it now.

ivarpuvar

It's interesting how we all wanted ETF-s but they might be our demise in the end. One thing I noticed about this already was the recent Kusaka privacy framework that includes a government backdoor. Unthinkable for permissionless ethos but here we have Vitalik promoting it

No_South_9912

That's how I do it, ETF in IRA.

No_South_9912

Go ETF, the only fee is a 50 cent (based on $100) per year expense ratio.

No_Investigator3369

What do you mean late? Isn't it the fastest ETF's ever?

crossy1686

Okay, so what's the use case? How is this utilised? Where is the adoption? What's the incentive to build on ADA when there are better options? ADA isn't being mentioned anywhere, other tokens have got their own ETF's at this point. SOL does all these things better than ADA and ETH. No one gives a shit about the technology.

Substantial-Sea3046

ETF is owned by retail... institutional buy bitcoin off market. ETF is mostly used by retail (or by big whales) for security convenience

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BlackRock has established the iShares Staked Ethereum Trust ETF in Delaware, signaling a move towards a staking-based Ethereum exchange-traded fund (ETF). The trust was registered on November 19, 2023, as an initial step under the Securities Act of 1933. While no timeline has been disclosed, BlackRock would need to file further documentation with the SEC. This development aligns with growing interest in staking-focused ETFs, as firms like Grayscale and others explore similar products. Staking could attract significant capital and impact Ethereum's market dynamics. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

OkSeries5363

BlackRock cannot use client assets, like the Bitcoin in the ETF as collateral for their own corporate debt. That would be embezzlement/fraud. When they scoop up properties or companies, they are doing it on behalf of a fund, using client money to get client returns, not for the BlackRock corporation itself Sounds like classic confusion with Blackstone. BlackRock generally does not buy single family homes for their corporate balance sheet. BlackRock has a corporate balance sheet, retained earnings from fees and they do use debt/profits to buy things. But they use that money to buy other asset management firms, like GIP or Preqin and software. They don't use corporate profits to speculate on Bitcoin or buy single family homes. The only Bitcoin they "own" is the tiny seed capital used to launch the ETF, approx 10 million which is less 0.1% of the fund. The other $30 billion plus is strictly client money that BlackRock cannot touch for its own debts. Even if BlackRock sold their seed shares tomorrow, it would represent 0.02% of the fund. It wouldn't affect the other investors at all, it would barely be noticeable. Client assets are segregated. BlackRock earns fees on the AUM, and they can leverage their own revenue streams, but they cannot take out a mortgage against clients holdings in their ETF. Think of BlackRock like a massive parking garage. AUM is the cars parked there. BlackRock doesn't own the cars, they are in assets management. They can't take a loan out against your car, while it's parked there. But they can charge you a fee park there. Corporate assets is the parking fee you pay them. They use that money to build more parking garages, not to buy cars for themselves.