ETF

Secret_Operative

Yeah that makes sense, and explains why early on Coinbase struggled with banking relationships, and it took ten years for an ETF to get approved. The perfect plan so well executed.

Mascho__

In our country is ETF tax free after 3 years of holding.

ILikePracticalGifts

1. They will go after the ETF holdings and companies, not shrimp 2. I will gladly tell them with a gun to my head to eat my dick

Despaciito

Its crazy the price doesnt go up with all the ETF buying. Should think miners be empty by now

JustinPooDough

Does anyone get the feeling that Blackrock is working with the US Government, the ETF's are a ploy to capture as much Bitcoin as possible, and that Coinbase has intentionally been set as the world's biggest honeypot? Just imagine someone now came along and somehow hacked Coinbase - where virtually all institutions custody their coins. This would set back Bitcoin and the entire sector by a decade at least. I'm not saying it's happening - but I am saying if you *wanted* to fuck Bitcoin up, this would be an excellent way. The only reason I don't really believe this is because it would harm Blackrocks reputation...

zitrone999

If you can buy BTC, the ETF has no pro. It is for people/institutions who for some reason cannot hold BTC directly.

Timp2003

Pro's: 1. Taxes*: Can be bought in tax-advantaged accounts. Some countries tax differently for capital gains (might be a pro or con). 2. Convenience: It's easier to buy an ETF than buy BTC and then sending that to a cold wallet. Setup of a brokerage is oftentimes already the case, whereas buying and setting up a HWW takes a little effort. No 'need' to consolidate UTXO'S. 3. Accessibility: ETFs can be sold directly, BTC has to be send to an exchange and can only then be sold (unless you use it to pay directly). 4. Cost/fees*: No cost of purchasing a HWW, no transaction fees, possibly lower fees for buying/selling. Cons: 1. Taxes*: Some countries tax differently for capital gains (might be a pro or con). 2. Indirect ownership: You don't own the underlying (BTC), but own shares that hold Bitcoin. 3. Trading hours: BTC trades 24/7, the stock market is not always open. 4. Cost/fees*: No ongoing fee (~0.25% APY), possibly lower fees for buying/selling. 5. Decentralisation: The 'point' of buying btc may be to cut out intermediaries, this is not the case when relying on the broker.

Illustrious_Stand319

They are buying ETF

WasteFront1988

“ETF is just another paper bitcoin.” - But it’s not “This will like another FTX 2.0 incident.” - Except it won’t

Financial_Design_801

Becoming comical now… iShares Bitcoin ETF has taken in *$1.5bil* over past 6 trading days. That $1.5bil alone would make it a top 5 launch of 2024 (out of 570 ETFs). But of course… it’s taken in a total of *$23bil* since January. Are there really still naysayers out there? (BlackRock (IBIT) Daily BTC Flows: +332.3m: BBG) https://twitter.com/nategeraci/status/1848534379980574733?s=46&t=ihVglVXC0BQSbw6j57EoaA

TALLWALTON007

ETF is just paper BTC threw a broker. It's better to buy BTC and send it to your cold storage

Thestonerman420

If you hold Bitcoin, you should be close to all time high. If you hold ethereum(like me)… maybe, maybe not. Luckily most of my buys were around $1200 a coin so I am in the green, but it’s pretty insane the growth potential eth has the rest of the cycle. Right now it’s barely more than half of its all time high, a price which did not include proof of stake, deflationary tendencies, scalability(future upgrades), and ETF’s. I could be wrong, but I think the eth/btc ratio has hit a low for the cycle. Come back to this comment

Boogyin1979

If you’re in it for number go up: ETF. If you’re in it for it’s intended purpose: self-custody.

Ecstatic-Motor-1448

You do you my friend. Holding ETF has a lot of advantages as well. I hold on tax advantages account, most of it is growing tax free. And 1/3 of all my bitcoins are on my personal wallet, so Im good.

PopFirm5291

"Not your keys, not your bitcoin" -Satoshi You rather hold your own bitcoin. Your bitcoin you can carry with you anywhere you want to go, Even to another countries. You can't do that with ETF. ETF is just another paper bitcoin. This will like another FTX 2.0 incident. Might as well give your bitcoin to me and I store it for you. Ha.

alaferriere10

One benefit of the ETF (depending on your time horizon) is that you can buy and hold in a Roth account (IRA or 401k), which will allow you to realize BTC gains without paying capital gains taxes.

StanYanMan

Because market cap is a future looking metric for stocks. People are expecting MSTR to buy more bitcoin in the future and grow faster in price than the price of bitcoin. If it tracked 1:1 then it’d be a BTC ETF.

Realistic-Jelly8133

It doesn't matter if you have Bitcoin in self custody or in the ETF... Until it does matter. The question is whether you are prepared when that time comes.

Defusion55

If you think there is enough supply to feed the ETFs at current prices for 15 years you are delusional. The ETF's are out buying the amount of BTC produced by miners by almost 2x. there is only another 300,000 BTC or so on the markets under $200k.

Ecstatic-Motor-1448

The choice between holding Bitcoin directly or investing in a Bitcoin ETF depends on several factors, including security, convenience, trading flexibility, and the associated risks. Let’s break down the key differences between the two options: 1. Ownership and Control • Holding Bitcoin: When you hold actual Bitcoin, especially in a cold wallet (offline storage), you have full control over your asset. It’s decentralized, and you’re your own custodian. You can send, receive, and use Bitcoin however you wish, and you aren’t reliant on any intermediary to manage your funds. However, this also places the responsibility for security squarely on you, and losing access to your wallet (like forgetting your private keys) could mean losing your Bitcoin forever. • ETF: When you buy a Bitcoin ETF, you’re purchasing a security that tracks the price of Bitcoin. You don’t actually own any Bitcoin, and the fund managing the ETF takes care of storage, security, and custody. The ETF provider handles all the technical aspects like custody of Bitcoin, and you simply own shares in the fund. This makes it much easier for institutional investors and individuals who want exposure to Bitcoin without the hassle of managing wallets. 2. Security • Holding Bitcoin: There’s the risk of hacks if your Bitcoin is stored on an exchange or an online wallet. Cold wallets are considered safer, but there’s still the risk of physical theft or losing your private keys. • ETF: With an ETF, the security is managed by professional custodians. If the ETF provider is reputable, this could be seen as a less risky option in terms of the potential for loss due to hacking or personal error. However, you are relying on the custodian and fund manager to safeguard those assets. 3. Liquidity and Trading Hours • Holding Bitcoin: Bitcoin trades 24/7. You can buy, sell, or trade your Bitcoin at any time, providing liquidity and flexibility. This can be a big advantage, especially in the highly volatile crypto market where significant price movements can occur outside of traditional market hours. • ETF: Bitcoin ETFs trade on regulated stock exchanges, which means they can only be bought or sold during market hours (e.g., 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. for U.S. markets). This creates a disadvantage in terms of flexibility, especially during significant market events that happen outside these hours. 4. Fees • Holding Bitcoin: There may be transaction fees when buying or selling Bitcoin on an exchange, as well as network (blockchain) fees for moving Bitcoin between wallets. If you hold your Bitcoin in a personal wallet, there are no ongoing costs other than perhaps storage hardware. • ETF: ETFs typically have an expense ratio, which is an annual fee the fund charges for managing the assets. This is often a small percentage (e.g., 0.5% to 1%) but is a recurring cost you must account for. Additionally, ETF shares might trade at a slight premium or discount to the actual price of Bitcoin, meaning you could pay more or less than the exact market value of Bitcoin when buying the ETF. 5. Regulatory and Custodial Risk • Holding Bitcoin: If you hold Bitcoin in a personal wallet, you’re less subject to regulatory risks because you hold the asset directly. However, if stored on an exchange, your access could be affected by exchange-specific regulations, and you might be vulnerable to government actions (such as a potential ban or regulation on exchanges). • ETF: ETFs are regulated securities, so the risk of government intervention or changes in regulation is higher. Governments could impose additional regulations on ETF providers, or there could be a scenario where ETFs are delisted or altered in some way by regulatory bodies. You also run the risk that the ETF provider itself mismanages the fund or experiences internal issues. 6. Taxes • Holding Bitcoin: Tax treatment can vary depending on the country. In many countries, Bitcoin is considered property, so selling it could trigger capital gains taxes, and you must track the cost basis for every transaction. • ETF: ETFs often have more simplified tax reporting, and the taxation rules around ETFs are generally more established. You’re taxed when you sell shares, and capital gains taxes apply, just like with any other stock or fund investment. Some ETFs may also provide tax efficiency benefits (like not distributing taxable gains as frequently). 7. Market Exposure • Holding Bitcoin: By holding Bitcoin directly, your exposure is purely to Bitcoin’s price. You are subject to its volatility, but you also capture the full upside of the asset’s price movements. • ETF: While ETFs track Bitcoin’s price, there may be minor deviations due to the fund’s structure or expenses. However, most Bitcoin ETFs aim to mirror the price of Bitcoin closely. ETFs could offer additional features like futures contracts, which may alter the risk/reward profile slightly compared to holding the actual asset. Conclusion: Should You Hold Bitcoin or Buy an ETF? • Hold Bitcoin if: You believe in the ethos of decentralized finance and want full control of your asset. You’re comfortable managing the security of your coins and want the flexibility of trading 24/7. You’re okay with the potential regulatory risk that comes with holding a decentralized asset. • Buy an ETF if: You prefer convenience, want to avoid the complexities of managing private keys, or are more comfortable with traditional investment vehicles that come with regulation. You’re fine with limited trading hours and minor expense ratios in exchange for simplicity. Both options can offer similar financial exposure to Bitcoin’s price movements, so the choice boils down to your preferences for security, control, and convenience.

DesperateFig2366

Can you say ETF!!

Xylber

Bitcoin went from 0 to 69k without any ETF. The only fools that can really believe that ETFs are anything good are the brainwashed americans who can only buy ETFs because their goverment keep telling them that only terrorists use the real BTC...

Prestigious_Share103

Why are you looking at the chart from the cycle lows? You lose a ton of information doing it this way. Do the comparison from the date of the halvings and you’ll see that every bull move has gotten weaker than the last. In every cycle past, Bitcoin had been on a huge upswing at this point after the halving. This cycle is the weakest on record so far. I think this is an important fact because it absolutely disproves the thesis of the ETF bulls who believed that ETF inflows would make a big difference. As I said many times, it’s the market’s estimate of discounted future flows that gets priced in all at once. The flows affect price only at the margin. Meanwhile everyone is scratching their heads over why ETF flows aren’t moving price much. That’s how it has always worked in every asset. You should be glad that Bitcoin behaves like a normal asset, if it didn’t it would be a very unhealthy place to keep money.

ThucydidesButthurt

ETF hype brought BTC from 17k to 70k lol. The fact it has held so close to ATH this past year instead of dumping shows the ETFs have been great for BTC

piggleii

Nevermind that leveraged shorts (combined with ETF inflows) were responsible for most of the pump.

thatsamiam

I like Saylor. He is right about many things and good for Bitcoin. But on this issue he is wrong. It would be relatively easy for the U S government to seize Blackrock ETF or MSTR BTC especially with a Supreme Court that appears to not be doing its job.

Shaglock

Chill man, ETF boomers to the rescue again soon when murca market opens.

Poiniedawg

How come? ETF institutions only need to have a LP access up and till 3% of total investments.

Boogyin1979

Have the words "I don't know" every come out of his mouth? Every topic that encroaches upon the edge of his knowledge base "is stupid" and this deflection is so gross. As Jameson Lopp has warned: Saylor is going to continue gaslighting folks into believing self-custody is bad, improving the protocol is bad and buying $MSTR and ETF products is th only way to go. This feels like the Blocksize war all over again. Run your own node, hold your own keys, rinse and repeat.

rgnet1

The most compelling argument against BTC ETFs is that all ETFs are simply paper representing a real, hard asset. Bitcoin was created in part as a defense against a corruptible and inscrutable financial system that allowed the 2008 financial crisis to occur. This occurred because of derivatives -- paper representing assets, houses in this case -- created in increasingly obscure ways. When you buy an ETF, you put trust in the same financial system that has a history of becoming unsupervised slop, then the rich get bailed out and the rest hold the bag. The ETF's existence and popularity can obscure real price discovery. In 2008, the enforcers who ensured the housing derivatives were valued fairly went to sleep at the wheel. Who do you think is enforcing that the ETFs are holding the right amount of underlying BTC and protecting its custody? It's the same people. The beauty of Bitcoin is that all of these things happen, but it's neutral computer code; it endures. It's enforced by the immovable certainty of math. An ETF scandal will happen, the market price will be volatile as always, but through every event, Bitcoin just remains and becomes more scarce every day.

bigbarryb

The only thing I'll caveat to this, is that the scale is in dollars, not percentage of supply or anything like that... there is a lot more dollars chasing goods in 2024 than back when the gold ETF was made.

Keanar

I believe the ETF is not accessible from Europe. If it is, please tell me how

bewaterCH

I use a fixed asset allocation strategy that’s split across three categories: * **Alpha**: Riskier assets that have the potential to outperform the broader market (mainly BTC). * **Beta**: A diversified portfolio that tracks the market (includes retirement accounts and ETFs). * **Cash**: A six-month emergency fund, with the rest invested in various interest-generating assets. I occasionally rebalance to stick to my original allocation. For example: * If BTC pumps 10%, I’ll sell some and shift it into cash or increase my ETF exposure. * If BTC drops, I’ll dip into my cash reserves to buy more BTC. This approach doesn’t necessarily outperform a pure buy-and-hold strategy in terms of long-term profit (if BTC keeps rising indefinitely). However, it does three things that I personally value more than a few extra percentage points of profit: 1. **Risk Management**: As BTC’s value increases, I’m forced to take some chips off the table, gradually reducing risk. 2. **Liquidity for Dips**: By selling some BTC when it pumps, I ensure I have cash reserves to take advantage of inevitable sell-offs. 3. **Psychological Cushioning**: * When BTC pumps, it’s exciting, but selling a bit tempers the hype with a little disappointment. * When BTC drops, it’s painful, but I get the satisfaction of buying more at a lower price, which I see as a long-term win.

mrfredngo

Why is it everyone hates on BTC ETFs so much? This chart shows that If it allows more folks to participate, it’s better for every holder, ETF or not. More capital going in can only be better for everyone.

Excellent-Lab9809

Bitcoin (BTC) has skyrocketed to **$69,000**, marking a new all-time high. This surge is driven by strong institutional interest, the growing adoption of cryptocurrencies, and the rising popularity of decentralized finance (DeFi). Investors are flocking to BTC, seeing it as a hedge against inflation and traditional market volatility. Additionally, recent developments like **Bitcoin ETF approvals** have further fueled optimism in the market. The rally indicates broader confidence in cryptocurrency as a mainstream financial asset. To learn more about Bitcoin’s market dynamics and how you can benefit, [**click here.**](http://surl.li/crnjod)

Wendysmanager24

Here we are ON THE BRINK of reaching NEW ALL TIME HIGHS folks. The bears were wrong yet again, and after many months of crabbing and establishing a new foundation near the ATHs of the last cycle we are finally primed for the GOD CANDLE We are in a POST ETF POST HALVING POST RATE CUT world with the uncertainty of an election about to be resolved in a matter of weeks. What an absolute tremendous time to be ALL IN on crypto instead of being a sidelined bear Thank you JPOW PATRON SAINT of the economy BULLS WIN AGAIN BTC 200K EOY AVAX TO 400

MyNi_Redux

>You Should Buy Real Bitcoin & Self Custody Instead of MSTR or an ETF - Anyone Telling You NOT to is Trying To Sell You Something like an IOU I'm afraid that horse has left the barn. Many, many people are absolutely fine buying IOUs in ETFs willingly because all they care about is, value goes up. This is not to take anything away from folks who want to hold BTC in hard wallets, but it's the devil's bargain that was made when those ETFs were introduced. Saylor is just talking his book, by the way. That's not "compromised," that's "motivated" :)

hughhefnerd

According to chatgpt: The first gold-backed Exchange-Traded Fund (ETF), SPDR Gold Shares (GLD), was launched in November 2004. In its first full year (2005), approximately $4.8 billion flowed into GLD and other similar gold ETFs that were launched shortly thereafter. Adjusted for inflation, $4.8 billion in 2004 dollars would be approximately $7.87 billion in today's dollars, assuming an average inflation rate of 2.5% per year.

Weary_Strawberry2679

Refreshing take, but if BTC doubles the next round, this is still 100% profit in a short timespan. In a conventional ETF market, you are talking about doubling in 7-10 years. I'm not at all skeptical of BTC. I think it's inevitable that this will get to the hundreds of thousands eventually.

CoyoteClem

I would argue this is not totally representative of the situation because GBTC acted earlier as a pre-ETF option since 2015. Though maybe a similar situation happened with some other gold proxy before that ETF arrived?

Realistic-Jelly8133

I was hoping my over-the-top response would express my sarcasm adequately. Alas, I must remember the /s next time. Yes, I understood your carry trade argument. I'm not sure why someone would use two different instruments (ETF and Bitcoin futures) for a carry trade. Why not just use spot Bitcoin if you are hedging with futures?

btc_clueless

I wish, since my largest bag is ETH but I just don't see it. It has been underperforming ever since the merge, the market simply doesn't seem to care that much for ETH. And this cycle, ETH went to 4k in March and has then been bleeding back to around 2k in September, a slow 50% drawdown in the middle of a bull market is not a good sign. Even the ETF wasn't able to pump the price. With so much weakness (especially compared to BTC) I don't see it reaching 10k this cycle.

SnooObjections1618

I visitied 10 old friends of mine last night for a poker game. 3 people had heard about bitcoin from me previously but have not done any learning about the protocol, None of them knew that BTC is right near its ATH. 4 of my friends would only say that they think Bitcoin is a scam. One of my friends actually said he owns some BTC but not very much and he was thinking of selling his stack because he thinks btc is a dying issue... I think he just owns a little bit of the ETF. It is more like most people do not think about bitcoin at all being a vessel to store wealth. Bad news for the current price of BTC but if you know your stuff about how Bitcoin works, then it is great news for those of us who are still stacking for freedom from fiat. One of my friends has put up with more bitcoin chirping than the rest due to living nearby, so he has been forced to learn some of what i keep repeating to him. He was the only person at the poker game that actually has bitcoin for the long term but has me being the custodian of his keys because he doesn't have time to learn why self custody. Im just saying that we are so extremely early to bitcoin adoption. When bitcoin first struck me like lightning, I was actually worried that the world would clue into bitcoin before i could get a large nut together. I was wrong, but i did the right thing by stacking sats slowly every day. My stack sits high and healthy now. BTC has the potential to change many lives for the better. My outlook for my financial future was always very murky for me before ^(learning) about bitcoin. That learning part is the most important part that i wish i could just give my friends the knowledge that I have. If you do can take in the small amount of information to learn about bitcoin, It will change your life full stop, this is because once you know that it does in fact exist and do what it does, you will see the simple elegance of how the system works. I came to the btc rabbit hole in late 2021 and i have been sending my spare dollars that i can muster into btc since that fateful october day, now nearly 3 years later, I sit on what i consider a fat stack of BTC that I have paid for with pocket change that never bothered me to invest into btc because its literrally change that I put in neasrly every day. Fucj, my rant is over now, Ive got mine, I hope everyone reading this gets their stack built in time too. Just know that you can change your life with pocket change if you have enough time.

eurodiablo

They are using the ETF’s and you can do this on pro exchanges as well with a leveraged account.

dmx442

BTC grind till 150k, than explosion to 200k+, and massive crash fueled by ETF sell of.

Givefreehugs

It also just had an ETF filed.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin's 2024 has been marked by high levels of greed, as indicated by the Fear and Greed Index. Despite a strong start with a 4% rise, Bitcoin's price has remained mostly stable, mirroring exchange reserves. Institutional investors have shown significant interest, with over $203 million in ETF inflows in a week. Bitcoin's dominance has increased to 58%, and its price movements are closely tied to exchange reserves. The market remains reactive, with traders anticipating a major move as Bitcoin hovers around $68,360. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Longjumping-Log1591

Statistics don't mean shit right now, The whales and or ETF' have thier agenda and they will do what they do when they do. There is no rhythm or reason

1of21million

SEC approved options on BTC ETF on friday launching monday. It's big.

brando2131

I've been DCAing into Bitcoin for the past ~8 years. Already had full conviction since then, and it's done well. About 3 years ago I set up a "self directed retirement fund" similar to an American "IRA LLC" (I'm not from US), and have been DCAing into that as well. I did this because ETFs didn't exist back then, (I wanted to start early), and I wanted to **hold the underlying asset** Bitcoin itself, which is not what traditional 401K/IRA let you do, only if it's self directed under an LLC. If someone were to start now, it would be simpler just to use your existing retirement strategy and buy the ETF in that. My strategy is just to continue DCAing into my retirement fund, and hold what I currently have in my personal name. I'd only use the Bitcoin in my retirement fund for retirement purposes. And the personal Bitcoin I'd hold until I feel the need to maybe buy a house. But right now I don't need that as full-time work can easily cover my rent and expenses, so I'm pretty comfortable.

avgjoe104220

I bought the bitcoin ETF in my 401K and Roth through Schwab about 2 weeks after they launched when BTC was around 45K. I threw about 15% of my retirement in. My financial advisors thought I was nuts. Made a nice return thus far. I’m prob more at 18-20% now. I would say reasonable for most ppl to go 1-5% of their portfolio. It’s a legitimate asset class that has black rock and the others into it now. It’s only a matter of time until advisers start telling people to put in 1-2%. The firm that advises me sent out a letter to investors OK’ing the ETFs for 1-2% if you could stomach the volatility. So I think for the average investor having that 1-5% is reasonable.  

KateR_H0l1day

ASI, I had thought HNT would be good late 23/24 & perhaps take off 2025 but I’ve been disappointed in their development. CRO might make a big move if CDC unleash an Exchange for the USA, and improve their card rewards a little. Of course a lot depends on their legal battle with the SEC, so definitely a gamble, and even a win might be a little late to make much difference this Bull. BTC, definitely a huge influence, but I don’t think ETH is, it’s just a Bull follower, like virtually everyone else in reality. I think CKB is looking very good, lots of development, plus, tapping into the BTC ecosystem will position it well. Also, done very well in 2024 with MSTR, and if you believe in BTC i think it’s easily a factor of X in 2025, but there will be lots more coins/tokens that outperform it. Yet, I mention it because if you have a tax advantage account, this is my #1 pick, it’s easily outperformed any ETF so far! Just some musings from a random internet stranger 🙄

liflafthethird

I have been saying this for a while now... mass adoption is happening right under our noses. El Salvador, ETF's, MSTR, Larry Fink, Trump/Kennedy, and so many other things going on... it is happening!

Substantial-Skill-76

Theyre shitting themseives. Also, Blackrock and all the other ETF's fund managers are advertising FOR bitcoin.

ulptthrowaway2016

Bitcoin doesn't have staking yet it had the biggest ETF launch of all time. There's just no demand for crypto among normies outside of Bitcoin and whatever is pumping hard during the bull run

Pretend-Hippo-8659

Of course they want the plebs to buy IOUs or paper Bitcoin and they want to hold the real deal themselves. The ETF is just a tool to middle-man retail out of self custody. They will use additional measures like unrealized gains tax (and lower tax on ETF) to facilitate this.

InclineDumbbellPress

Its better to hold an ETF than losing your funds because you lost your seed phrase or mistyped a character from an address

ulptthrowaway2016

The Ether ETF flop showed that it has little to no brand recognition outside of hardcore crypto users. Therefore it's likely to go through the same shitcoin cycle that all others went through, just slower

HipOut

Thanks, very helpful. Is it true only 450 Bitcoin mined per day (about 35 million)? If so that means that we are at a 65 million deficit not even counting purchases outside of the ETF??

Dazzling_Marzipan474

They'll be available in January for IBIT BTC ETF. Currently I trade MARA, RIOT, CLSK, MSTR. They perform very similarly to BTC. These are available at any broker.

jaredx3

I think you need to learn basics of the ETF it's called A SPOT Bitcoin etf. Which means they buy the spot price. It doesn't matter if there 1m bitcoin on exchanges or 1k. The etf provider is required to buy x amount of dollars worth of it when required to do so regardless of price. Little to no btc on exchanges would = an astronomical bitcoin value per coin

customsolitaires

I just thought it’s part of the deal with BlackRock, black rock wants you to direct that direct deposit to your broker of choice to buy their ETF instead of coinbase’s btc?

r_a_d_

They are not buying anything, this is volume from investors buying the ETF. It’s like saying “look how much coinbase bought” when you buy some bitcoin on the exchange.

r_a_d_

I’m in no way agreeing with the measure. It’s ridiculous to differentiate between instruments. It’s also pushing people to keep their stashes off the books with self custody. If someone wants to invest in bitcoin by the book without the tax hike, they could swap them for a bitcoin ETF before the end of the year.

Shamino_NZ

One thing people haven't mentioned is taxes. Check the rules in your country. In my country it is quite strange - sell BTC and you pay 33% or 39% tax. But hold the ETF and you pay 1.5% or so per year tax, but no tax if you sell (usually)

Pelsk8

True but ETF’s above alt coins. If you don’t want to gamble at least (Since he want to build some for retirement)

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; XRP is trading in a tight range between $0.52 and $0.56, with analysts predicting a potential breakout within 15 to 70 days. Crypto analyst Egrag Crypto suggests a bullish outlook, targeting a breakout to $0.61-$0.62 and a long-term target of $7.50, contingent on maintaining support levels and overcoming regulatory challenges. The market sentiment is 85% bullish, possibly due to recent XRP ETF filings. Technical indicators show oversold conditions, hinting at a possible trend reversal. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Daywalker47

Isn't BlackRock supposed to be buying Bitcoin to back their ETF at the close of every business day?

Enough_Nectarine804

Spend time reading books like “the bitcoin standard” and log hours of talks by people like Michael Saylor. Buy on cashapp or Gemini, or just straight through the Trezor app and keep it on a Trezor (or similar cold storage device). If you don’t want to deal with btc directly, then next best option is an ETF. Fidelity ETF cold stores away from Coinbase. Buying and keeping it on Coinbase is not an ideal option. You could also buy Microstrategy as a third option, which will soon be the largest bitcoin bank in the world, and you’ll get the benefits of owning traditional stock, backed by actual bitcoin

arioch376

Terrible advice! If you don't want to deal with self custody the ETF's should be your only option. There are actually protections with brokerages, SIPC etc. Storing you corn on Coinbase, Gemini, or any other exchange, indefinitely is super dumb. The protections are negligible, and if you're too lazy or not tech savvy enough to self custody you're probably also not setting up an authenticator and other necessary op sec to keep you coinbase account secure. Like 99% of the people who get "hacked" get social engineered out of their exchange login info and get their account drained.

Guilty_Fisherman5168

Also if you die BTC ETF is easier to pass on than actual BTC.

Bongressman

Investors buy the ETF, which triggers a Bitcoin buy from ETFs. ETFs done "keep cash arojnd" to buy Bitcoin dips. ETF managers don't directly control how much an ETF spends on Bitcoin. Its investors do. ETFs match appreciation of Bitcoin percentage wise 1 to 1. So no, ETFs won't outperform holding Bitcoin. They are just another avenue for people and funds to invest in the asset.

K0ka

Yep, and they later ranted that SEC approves Bitoin ETF despite their expert opinion - [https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog20240222\~0929f86e23.en.html](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog/date/2024/html/ecb.blog20240222~0929f86e23.en.html) So that's all you need to know about these "experts".

ignore_my_typo

The bullish outlook is coming from the silent majority of institutional money buying ETFs. Retail isn’t back and that is why it seems dead. Fortunately there doesn’t really seem like stop to the ETF train and one day we will wake up and due to price retail will FOMO indicating the likely near end of the cycle.

diwalost

"Us"? I don't think either you or me are going to buy ETF.

diwalost

People who buy ETF can never be crypto fans.

GrouchyAd9824

I have Robinhood and Schwab and generally just stick to Robinhood because I can't find anything better. I wasn't aware you could buy a house using Robinhood, I mean, that's part of what I use their loans for, but I didn't know there was a specific way to do it. I have a Gold account, so maybe that changes things, but I can activate margin spending and withdraw margin to my bank account. Schwab has a Pledged Asset Line, but with the ETFs and the miners I checked, you're only able to borrow up to 50% of the value which is the same as Robinhood. Schwab even has a crypto ETF with Microstrategy as the main holding, but it's still only 50%. I don't see the point in spending Schwab's 8%-9% interest when Robinhood is 5.75% interest. The only time I use Schwab is when I need a little extra liquidity and it allows me to borrow up to 70% of "blue chip" stocks. The other downfall of the Schwab "PAL" is you have to maintain $100k in the account at all times.

serendipity98765

With ETF you won't have issues selling with your bank Banks are not crypto friendly

Realistic-Jelly8133

33k bitcoin inflows into the ETFs this past week and the price moved from 62k to 68k. I'm not sure what to think. I thought that would have catapulted the market into seriously new highs. A few possibilities: 1. They're selling paper Bitcoin (seems unlikely) 2. The market liquidity is very very deep and there are tons of people willing to cash out at these price levels. 3. A lot of the ETF purchases are being hedged and the volume we are seeing is just one side of a trade. Any other thoughts?

anjie_eth

BTC ETF is good, it opens the Bitcoin market to lots of investment opportunities and interest from web2 fat pockets. One thing I think should be promoted more is BTC DeFi. While the ETF might see billions of dollars in liquidity trooping into Bitcoin, BTC DeFi is what'll give those liquidity meaningful utilities within the realms of decentralized finance.

Django_McFly

Buying and holding an ETF will *always* be easier than manually buying+holding the underlying asset or manually doing whatever strategy the ETF is doing. If the ETF makes it more difficult, it doesn't have a point to exist. The risks are that it's a total black box and theoretically the person running the ETF could *potentially* take the money and run, although that's going to be a bit difficult considering these CEOs are completely doxxed and very recognizable. They'll have a difficult time going somewhere and living some luxury lifestyle unnoticed.

DrSpeckles

There is no question. The ETF is 1000% safer unless you are into crypto. Think of it as regulated BTC. Unless you are into all that conspiracy theory stuff. Then you are on your own.

Every_Hunt_160

Basically the long story short: ETF for boomers BTC if you have tech literacy

mehoratty

ETF inflows, the yen, cycles, highest since June, whale accumulation high…I could go on and on.

Individual_Log8082

To add on to this comment if purchased in a ROTH IRA you get completely tax free growth on the ETF. If you’re in the US the brokerage you purchase through will be FDIC insured and you can establish a beneficiary. Personally I have crypto in both hot and cold storage I’m aware of the risks and to be frank I’m not confident in any of the fiat off ramps at this point. When people ask me how to invest I crypto I assess their ability to understand how self custody works and their risk comfort level. Most of the people that ask me I recommend they just buy the ETF. There’s a lot of inherent risk with self custody and dealing with exchanges that most people don’t want to be a part of.

inShambles3749

BTC. Don't trust, verify. You can do that with BTC. Not so much with the company who manages the ETF. Also you don't own the asset in a BTC ETF and you are at will of market times which sucks as well.

harvested

The Premium available for buying spot (ETF) and selling short CME futures has jumped from ~8% to 12%. So a fund can buy spot, short future, and are basically guaranteed the difference between the two which is about 12%.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The SoSoValue ETF Dashboard is a tool for investors providing detailed data on Bitcoin and potential Ethereum ETFs. It offers real-time and historical insights on metrics like net inflows/outflows, trading volumes, and total assets. The platform includes a multi-indicator comparison for Bitcoin ETFs such as Grayscale Bitcoin Trust and BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust. It also covers potential Ethereum ETFs, offering news and schedules of important events. The dashboard aids investors in making informed decisions by providing daily updates and historical data. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Anonymouslystraight

If you’re asking this please go ETF

Ok_Distance9129

The buying of the underlying coins is not done as a subsequent, second step with significant time in between, neither is it done by fund managers. It is done by pro market makers, who bear the market risk. Usually hedged within ms. In times of continuous inflows these guys make sure they are long. Good strategy if they manage to time the peak properly. It is all about (overal btc exposure) position management. Ideally with high turnover. If it becomes harder to source the underlying asset, it will be reflected in the price of the derivative (the ETF), meaning a higher risk premium on its NAV. Or in other words the quote will reflect the expected cost of hedging plus profit margin. Can go high in case of lack of underlying. Short squeezes are fun/interesting just looking at this principle.

Dazzling_Marzipan474

Remember everyone companies like these are exactly why Bitcoin was created. Stay the fuck away from these ETF's.

Jorgund

Atleast in my country the tax rules are a lot more advantageous if you buy/sell ETF, BTC gains are 30, ETFs are not

Shoemugscale

Just a point of clarity here, while you don't actually "own" the btc in the ETF they must have the btc to sell, meaning your shares are not just simply mirroring the price, they are backed by the asset. Probably obvious but worth noting.. Now, depending on where they have their money at, it may be simpler to buy the etf and it may come with tax advantages, for example if you buy from 401k your gains are not taxed ( you are taxed but like any 401k it's when you pull $ out) however, remember you need to be at least 55 but may need to be 59 depending on work. There are good and bad with both, i just read a post by Willie where a dude got scammed and drained of their coinbase btc, they were an older person who just bought a full btc.. The etf while not a wallet it does have more safe guards in place and if their timeline is 20 years gonwith the etf and don't fret about keeping the seed phrase safe or worrying about a link they clicked on etc etc. Obviously just ky opinion

bbddbdb

The ETF also has tax advantages in that it will be much easier to file your year end taxes and you can buy the ETF in an IRA account.

osogordo

If they're not savvy enough to manage their own cold storage, it's safer to use an ETF. You'll pay a bit more but if Bitcoin is indeed going to keep rising, the ETF fees should be negligible. Plus they'll be able to use their tax-advantaged 401k/IRA accounts.

admin_default

Go with an ETF. While the great innovation of Bitcoin is self custody, for most people, that’s more like an emergency feature. If your government starts looking for autocratic or you think of yourself as a political dissident that might be targeted by the state, that’s when self custody is a life saver.

PoisonWaffle3

I hold BTC in a wallet, I hold a BTC ETF in a non-roth brokerage account, and I hold a BTC ETF in a roth IRA. There is a time and place for all of them. The ETFs are great for boomers that don't know how to manage a wallet or are susceptible to being scammed.

TheElusiveFox

You are your own custodian if you own BTC... if the exchange you keep it on pulls a FTX, or you keep it on your private wallet and you get hacked - its totally on you... With an ETF, the fund is insured against those types of dangers, but you pay a premium for some one else to deal with custody... ETFs have the benefit of being able to be in your retirement fund or other protected funds... but you can trade bitcoin fractionally... if you have $5 you can buy a tiny fraction of a bitcoin, this is much harder to do with the ETF.

uclatommy

They both have their purposes. If they're not savvy, get the ETF. 1000% safer for this type of investor. Also they will get tax benefits if held in a retirement account.

Smoking-Coyote06

Depends if they want the gains or want the freedom money. Gains will be safe in ETF (unless government decides to take it). With holding BTC, family member has true property ownership, and go anywhere with it.