ETF

Leopardos

People gonna hate me.. but safest? Bitcoin ETF through your bank... Sleep well ...

ScandicVoyager

Wait for the ETF outflows this coming week

VariatCA

A couple positive days of momentum for the stock market and a coupled sentiment-change in ETF inflows (they saw their first substantial reversal in over 7 trading days on Friday, with +238M of inflows after -$3 Billion of combined outflows since Nov 12th) could lead to the same sort of massive reversal we saw this past week. ETF's piling back in that are changing their minds or buying the dip here, alongside over $10 Billion in shorts that would need to be closed or liquidated on the road back to 100k, could lead to a huge swing price very quickly.

biba8163

There is very low interest in all these Altcoin ETFs. $100 Million is a threshold number even make managing an ETF viable and these ETFs are not drawing large amounts of money. - LTC $7 Million - HBAR $54.8 Million - XRP $283.1 Million - SOL $644.92 Million This is why it wasn't worth the effort for a bigger player like Blackrock to launch ETFs for coins. The vast majority of the money and interest is BTC and not much more outside of ETH. - ETH $17 Billion - BTC $120 Billion

Phiziqe

before the SEC approval of ETF, it used to be way more volatile like monthly flash crashes, only noobs are thrown off rn

MrMogz

Last cycle didn't have ETF and billions of dollars of institutional ownership, it's different now (for BTC). The 4 year cycle is also broken, so we don't know that next year will be a "bear market" when we've basically just had a 1 year bear market for almost everything not named BTC, ETH and a handful of random coins, 99.9% of the market was in a bear market this year.

healthnuttier

Perhaps. I think we're in a weekend trap right now. ETF retail holders can't buy but they're for sure watching the price go back up right now. The trap is buy. O day thinking that was the bottom. Before the next step down to 70s.

arbitra8

You don't need a bank. People can hold Bitcoin in an ETF now and just borrow against it the same with a line of credit on their brokerage account the same way they can borrow against a gold ETF, SPY, or whatever. Maybe some brokerages will count the Bitcoin ETF as more volatile than some other position, which would affect the amount of leverage but you're still getting the same interest rate.

devCheckingIn

Once you take out all of those ETF and treasury company buys, is there anybody left? Who is going to be feeding the next bull market? I think the treasury company story is probably over now.

Lambull

If you take out the Bitcoin ETF pumps, the “strategic reserve” pump, and the treasury company hype-pumps, crypto has basically been in a low sentiment bear market for years.. is this just not the late stage bear cycle blow down dump, before we pivot to the upside?? It’s basically the complete opposite of a late stage bull cycle, where we’d low high-sentiment and a blow off top. 4 years ago, November 2021, we all thought Bitcoin couldn’t be stopped and it was definately going to 100k.. the opposite happened - we absolutely plummeted.  The complete opposite is happening now

Amber_Sam

Welcome aboard. We all have been where you're at right now. Read/bookmark this guide and make sure to learn along your journey. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding garbage tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. Going DCA is probably the best approach, IMHO. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. If there's a 10% drop in the price since my last buy, I usually double my buy. This [DCA calculator](https://dca.bitnob.com/) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/green/](https://blockstream.com/green/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. Use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor) [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, etc. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

flicman

uhh, dumbass, the SOL ETF is BRAND FUCKING NEW. What, you expect something with literally no holders to have outflow? How do you think that'd work, exactly.

2xfun

Dude. 1)What institutions? 2)The ETF opened the door a type of retail that can’t handle volatile  What are you on about?

FnAardvark

Blackrock doesn't decide to buy or sell, it's ETF holders do.

Juice79man

Yes it’s real. I’ve been saying this for months now. But everyone jumped down my throat telling me I’m stupid. It will never drop below 100k again. The ETF’s, mass adoption blah blah blah. If the pattern goes away there will be no more easy money for big corporations and Hedge funds. The retail investor hold very little BTC in comparison. Even if every retail investor never sold they could get the price to dump to where ever they see fit. This is why you need conviction in your investment. It’s easy to say you wont sell but when it’s down 70-80% and your hearing how its the end from every outlet. That’s when we find out who the real believers are and who the fair weather believers are.

Radiodudes

The only Hate is from those who are not educated. Do your research. Over 9 ETF are dropping next week including Franklin Templeton, Grayscale...etc. With Black Rock on the way. You won't see quick price movement, but once the OTC's are drained, it will reach it's full potential. Be smart and learn!

AdSelect4483

I suggest you diversify and keep your Bitcoin allocation at a fixed percentage. **What percentage?** That depends on your risk/reward appetite... but **psychology** may trick you ( or me) again. I started **Dollar-Cost Averaging (DCA)** in September 2024, maintaining an overall **target allocation** of approximately 15% of my portfolio. My biggest mistake is constantly changing this percentage; I initially tried to maintain it at 5%, then considered 20%, but I have now settled around 15%. With this recent drop, the allocation fell to 13%, so I bought yesterday to restore the original balance of my portfolio, having noted a strong support zone around 82,000–84,000 (and if it falls further, I will buy more in the future). I believe this strategy helps to **smooth volatility** and **protects against buying high and selling low**. Personally, I chose four assets with the **lowest possible correlation**: S&P 500, a global dividend growth-value ETF, Bitcoin, and Gold. Bitcoin has **unique correlation properties,** and I hope it **will continue to grow.** After all, it is my **primary growth engine.** *(corrected via gemini to improve English language interpretation)*

andys811

There are literally less than 2,000 wallets that hold more than 1,000 BTC, and that includes exchanges, ETF providers etc

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Romanizer

Yes, if you look at the 13f filings for large US investors, these increased dramatically in size and share in Q3. Big players are accumulating while retail is selling their ETF shares. Blackrock also added to their position and already holds a significant part of their own ETF.

nitroacid411

I'd take GBTC, IBIT... NOT really feeling anyone else ETF wise.

Rich_Highlight_

Fair enough, but calling $84K a peak after we hit $126K just last month? That's like declaring the party's over because the confetti's settling—it's just the intermission. The halving's scarcity is still kicking in, ETF inflows are rebounding (BlackRock's alone added 20K+ BTC this week), and institutional FOMO hasn't even peaked yet. Corrections like this happen mid-cycle every time (remember 2017's 40% dip en route to $20K?). If history's any guide, we're not topping out till Q1 2026 at minimum—analysts are eyeing $110K-$120K EOY. But hey, if you're cashing out now, more for the rest of us. What's your exit plan, or are you just venting?

Foooour

Im shorting MSTR, which acts as a pseudo leverage on btc, with a 2x inverse ETF

H34RTLESSG4NGSTA

Brain dead media. This woman literally runs an ETF, she’ll be buying in any market

Head-End-5909

There are no upsides or downsides to owning IBIT vis-a-vis BTC since iShares IBIT is a spot ETF trust. So there’s nothing to lose by selling bitcoin at a loss and buying IBIT at your brokerage account. Honestly, it’s better than keeping it on a CEX I self-custody Bitcoin and own IBIT in my Roth IRA where there’s definitely a tax upside.

Full_Muffin7930

ETF selling does not move coins off exchanges.

KookaburraTrading

You can just sell BTC and buy BTC. There is no wash sale. So you don’t need to do the ETF stuff.

Teamduncan021

On its own. It's good. It means people are buying and moving to cold wallets (holding long term) But please do note this is not enough info to say if as whole it's good or bad. For instance ETF selling can easily outweigh that

CriticalCobraz

**Summary:** Cathie Wood's Ark Invest has been aggressively buying crypto-related stocks during the recent market downturn: * \~$10 million in Coinbase (COIN) shares * \~$9 million each in BitMine (BMNR) and Circle (CRCL) * $9.75 million in Bullish (BLSH) * \~$6.7 million in Robinhood (HOOD) Ark's ETFs now hold substantial positions across crypto equities, with over $500 million in Coinbase shares across three ETFs, making COIN the second-largest holding in their Fintech Innovation ETF (ARKF)

elidevious

Lots of people will be able to retire in 4 years because they bought a BTC ETF next year.

Extreme_Homeworker

Everyone’s focused on the price drop, but the bigger story is the liquidity freeze that hit at the same time as ETF outflows. When liquidity gets thin, even normal selling looks catastrophic. This doesn’t automatically mean the cycle changed — just that the market is running on weak liquidity right now.

Prior_Revolution6284

I wasn’t specifically referencing the current crypto and stock market downturn as a bear market, although I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the beginning of one, especially with ETF sell-offs and the possible failure of “treasuries” (the latter potentially being good for crypto in the long-run, in my opinion). I was speaking more of crypto market cycles more generally. But… it doesn’t necessarily matter what you call it.

Life_Show8246

Honestly yeah at this point "real" fiat currencies are for the most part useless other than being what we use to do most transactions. If you don't have your value in a fund, an ETF, silver, gold or bitcoin you're literally just throwing away your money. Whatever government you're under is going to print out more and whatever you have in your account will become devalued. Capitalism in its current implementation just doesn't work for the average person anymore. So you have to play in the system you've been dealt until you can change it to something better.

baIIern

Many thought that the ETF money will stay in BTC but man were they wrong. It's probably mostly people who wanted to speculate with Bitcoin and not hodlers

snoodoodlesrevived

Why’d you choose to use an ETF?

Circusssssssssssssss

The ETF isnt BTC  A lot of people are going to learn the hard way they should have stayed in normal stocks...

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-mentalbreakdance-

Totally agree with you. Veterans have seen this movie before: sharp corrections, even deep ones, are completely normal in crypto, especially during bull runs when euphoria gets out of control. This isn’t even that extreme yet. And yeah, the strict “4-year cycle” dogma died the moment BTC printed a new all-time high months before the halving. The script has changed. 1. We’re still sitting on massive unrealized institutional and ETF inflows that haven’t fully rotated back in yet. Every healthy correction in this cycle so far has been bought aggressively by institutions who are structurally under-allocated. The moment sentiment flips from “capitulation” to “dip-buying opportunity,” that dry powder comes rushing back in. 2. Macro liquidity is turning bullish again: Global M2 money supply is expanding, central banks (especially the Fed) have pivoted toward easing, and rate cuts are basically priced in for 2025. Crypto thrives in a “risk-on + liquidity” environment, and we’re heading straight into it. So yeah, the current bears will turn into raging bulls faster than most expect; history doesn’t repeat, but it sure rhymes. Seen this exact movie in 2016–17 and 2020–21. Same script, new actors.

donjoe0

\- Why Microstrategy is not a "distressed junk bond" \- What Saylor means with the latest "we're not a fund" tweet, and what the major difference is vs. owning a BTC ETF (spoiler: you gain vs. lose BTC over time) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGOsXq2l0lI&t=575s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGOsXq2l0lI&t=575s)

WiseChest8227

So every single person who bought a BTC ETF is down? That is not good news.

Street_Outside_7228

Prepare for first major ETF drawdown after the fake bounce 😉

ben02015

OP is probably referring to something like Blackrock, although it’s a bit misleading. They just have a bitcoin ETF (IBIT). So Blackrock is not choosing to buy and sell for themselves. There just doing it based on people buying and selling the ETF. Like if people buy IBIT, the price rises, so they need to buy more bitcoin so that the holdings match the price. Same goes for selling.

1Delta

That's also why I have a Bitcoin ETF in my US retirement account (Roth IRA which has tax free growth). Though one of the posters in here is saying now there's an option for a different IRA where you can buy actual Bitcoin rather than an ETF.

Lurkinglurch80

This does make me laugh. Just a few months ago it was all; Bitcoin ETFS outpacing everything, Bitcoin Rising Faster Than Gold, Bitcoin growth outpacing.... Etc etc now it's the world is ending, Bitcoins going to zero, record numbers pulling out of BTC ETF's etc etc. It's all knee jerk reactionary news articles. There is something going on but try to find facts not speculation. I suspect there is something going on around the MSCI consultation around the exclusion of companies who have more than 50% investment in digital assets such as BTC. Exert: MSCI has published a preliminary list of companies that are potentially impacted by a recent consultation on how it treats companies with significant holdings in digital assets. For non-index constituents on this list, MSCI has stated they will not be considered for inclusion in the MSCI All Cap Index as part of the November 2025 Index Review.  The companies on the preliminary impacted list (which includes both current index constituents and non-index constituents under scrutiny) reportedly include: MicroStrategy Sharplink Gaming Riot Platforms Marathon Digital Holdings  MSCI is continuing to review its data sources and will provide further updates. The final decision on the consultation is expected to be announced in January, with any changes taking effect in February.  So this could be a massive offloading by these and other companies to

EthanOrtane

Chat GPT says: Good question. There’s no single reason, but a combination of macro, market-technical, and sentiment factors seem to be driving Bitcoin’s ~30% drop. Here are the main explanations, according to analysts: --- Why Bitcoin Has Fallen ~30% 1. ETF Outflows Big outflows from spot Bitcoin ETFs have put downward pressure. When institutional funds redeem, that can translate into real selling in the underlying BTC. 2. Macro Risk (Risk-Off Sentiment) Investors are turning more cautious: uncertainty about U.S. interest rate cuts is weighing heavily. There’s broader risk aversion, especially in “riskier” assets like crypto, as some capital moves to safer places. Strengthening U.S. dollar and higher bond yields make Bitcoin relatively less attractive. 3. Leverage & Liquidations A lot of long (bullish) leveraged positions got liquidated, which accelerates the drop. This kind of cascade (“liquidation cascade”) is particularly brutal in crypto because of leverage. 4. Profit-Taking / Whales Selling Some large holders (“whales”) are taking profits after the big run-up. On-chain data suggests long-term holders are moving coins to exchanges, which could mean selling pressure is building. 5. Liquidity Thinning Market “depth” is lower: there are fewer orders supporting the price, so even modest sell pressure can move BTC significantly. When liquidity dries up, big sell orders have a bigger impact. 6. Macro / Geopolitical Risk Trade tensions (e.g., tariffs) are adding to economic uncertainty. Higher inflation or sticky inflation concerns are complicating expectations about central bank policy. 7. Cycle Dynamics Some analysts point to Bitcoin’s “natural” four-year cycle: after a big bull run, a correction or “cooling” phase is normal. This could just be part of a broader cyclical pullback, rather than something “fundamentally broken.” 8. Sentiment & Fear The market’s mood has shifted: fear is creeping back in, especially after leveraged liquidations and ETF redemptions. Some traders are panic selling or closing short-term bets, which contributes to downward momentum. --- Why It’s Especially “Sharp” Right Now The scale of leverage makes corrections more vicious: leveraged long trades get liquidated quickly, which then pulls the price down even faster. ETF flows are very visible: when big funds withdraw, it signals to the market that institutions are less confident. Macro uncertainty is higher than usual: if investors aren’t sure what the Fed will do, risk assets suffer. There may also be whale profit-taking, which is particularly powerful when combined with thin liquidity. --- Risks & What to Watch If you're trying to evaluate if this is a “dip” to buy or a more serious decline, some key things to watch: ETF flow reports (are inflows coming back or continuing outflows?) On-chain data (whale wallet movements, exchange inflows/outflows) Macro data (interest rate decisions, inflation, economic risk) Liquidation events (if there are more, it could worsen) Technical support levels on BTC price charts (where buyers might step in) --- Bottom line: The drop looks to be driven by a mix of profit-taking, ETF redemptions, macro risk, and liquidations, not necessarily a breakdown of Bitcoin’s long-term case. But it's a sharp move, and many of these risks are real right now. If you like, I can pull together recent (last 3-6 month) on-chain and macro analysis that explains whether this is likely a temporary pullback or a deeper correction — do you want me to do that?

low_contrast_black

The cons are “not your keys, not your coin”, and you’re going to be paying admin fees on the ETF. The pro is easy exposure to bit in your tax-advantaged account. Any time you don’t have self-custody, you only have exposure. That exposure is given to you by a third party, and because of that, they are ultimately in control. That goes against the grain of what bitcoin is. Personally, I break it down like this: any non tax-advantaged investment I make in bit is the real deal. I don’t consider it truly mine until it’s been transferred to my wallet. Tax-advantaged accounts, however, already have all sorts of control around them, so I don’t mind utilizing the ETFs for exposure.

JimmyWhatever

I was 30% IBIT 15% MSTR. Sold MSTR down to 5% 61 years old. Will hold till 65, then reduce to 5-10% and primarily go to dividend ETF’s and VOO

Acceptable_Host_8331

It’s Fidelity’s Bitcoin ETF. It allows me to have BTC exposure in his registered education savings plan 😊.

andys811

On-chain wallets doesn't really say much because of exchange custody and ETFs, a huge amount of people will hold on exchanges or exposure through an ETF which you will not be able to see anywhere by looking at on-chain stats

Puzzman

Going off [https://www.strategy.com/](https://www.strategy.com/) They got $8.2 Billion in debt, first batch of $1.01B due in 2028 (can be forced to payout in 2027), average interest rate 0.5% STRD Preferred stock $1.255B issued at 10% STRK Preferred stock$1.4B issued at 8% STRC Preferred stock $3B issued at 10.50% STRF Preferred stock $1.3B issued at 10% STRE Preferred stock $0.7B (USD) issued at 10% So thats a total of $8.8B at roughly 10% So they need close to 1 Billion a year for interest and preferred stock dividends. Based on their current holdings (and current Bitcoin price) is a 2% dilution required. So effectively its just a really expensive Bitcoin ETF atm. No idea how they are going to raise more money to buy bitcoin. But also can't see them getting into real trouble until the first bonds become due.

saki7790

If you want it really easy just get an physically backed Bitcoin ETF where you get all your bitcoins whenever you want . Its Like bitcoin without all the hassle

VariatCA

A positive day of ETF inflows for +$238 Million, even with Blackrock selling another $122M today.

harvested

Haha, you don't hold coins, you're just another wsb degen here to spread fear. Pretty obvious. 46K is funny, people would be backing up the truck to buy at those levels, that's like early ETF launch price.

Head-End-5909

ETF outflows, forced liquidations, retail investors panic selling

GettingFasterDude

At Fidelity you can either do their ETF (FBTC) or buy spot bitcoin on their Fidelity Crypto IRA. My opinion is, spot bitcoin and holding your own keys is better than letting them hold for you. Not your keys, not your coins. But YMMV.

arBettor

"Here in the real world we can correlate the BTC price almost directly with USDT supply curve" No you can't. 1/21/25 - 4/7/25: BTC -28%; USDT Mkt cap +4% 4/7/25 - 10/6/25: BTC +63%; USDT Mkt cap +23% 10/6/25 - 11/21/25: BTC -32%; USDT Mkt cap +4% Negatively correlated, then positively correlated, then negatively correlated. There is no meaningful correlation. "It's telling that your argument is that USDT **supply** has no effect on BTC price." Please point out where I argued that. I'm just poking holes (easily) in your arguments. You thought MSTR was an ETF, you don't know what you're talking about. Go back into hibernation.

VariatCA

Companies/Treasuries are thinking on timelines just a little longer than a couple months. With no immediate need nor desire to sell any time in the near future, they can also put their ETH to work and stake it for a yield... a privilege Blackrock doesn't get to enjoy as a custodial ETF.

Indi_Cat123

Mate XRP hit ATH back in late summer at a whopping $3.66 WOW! It's been a slow burn to the bottom ever since. The real winners are the ones that got early, cashed out near the ATH and are waiting currently to buy back in. Also remember the XRP dick wad influencers stating for certain about the baseline of $3.00 to hold. Yeh now it's under 2 bucks a pop. Don't get me wrong, I've got a pretty bag in XRP, but I ain't expecting any miracles. Also have fun with your shitty ETF's that did fuck all to ''moon'' xrp, isn't that what your folks have been banking on this whole time? It's Saturday in under an hour here... The ETF week is over. But the copium never stops for XRP.

GettingFasterDude

You have all kinds of investments so you must have heard of Fidelity. You can buy spot bitcoin on Fidelity. That’s as easy as it gets. Want even easier? Buy Fidelity’s bitcoin ETF. They buy and hold the bitcoin for you. Doesn’t get any easier than that. But it does!l get easier. Have Venmo, PayPal or cash app? Click a button. You’ve got bitcoin.

YogurtCloset3335

Oh right they don't care at all about their $245 billion Bitcoin ETF 🙄

arBettor

"Most traders know that USDT wash trading has kept BTC price up for years. " Even if you had a survey of traders to substantiate this claim, that doesn't mean anything. Do traders have some special information that the rest of us don't have access to? Tether FUD gets trotted out periodically yet it remains completely theoretical and IMO is completely false. Yet you present it as fact here. First mistake. "ETFs other than MSTR are holding their prices." Huh? Are you talking about bitcoin ETFs? They're gotten crushed alongside the bitcoin price, exactly as expected and as designed. Also MSTR is not an ETF. You're grasping at straws here and making no sense.

Jazzlike_Space9456

ETF’s print bitcoin

Dangerous-Golf-8859

Bitcoin slipping under $84K is basically a sign that sellers are in control right now. A bunch of liquidations and ETF outflows have added extra pressure, so it’s not shocking to see the price wobble like this. People are watching the $78K–$75K range as the next big support zone. The main things to keep an eye on are: whether ETF outflows keep getting worse, what big whale wallets are doing, overall market vibes, which are sitting at “extreme fear”. Long-term, the whole “Bitcoin as an inflation hedge” story is still there because global money supply keeps growing but short-term, the charts basically say: take it slow, don’t get reckless.

isbuttlegz

Lets say Blackrock created a sophisticated technology to mint (create) up to 21 million blackrock dollars over a long period of time. Others saw this work out well so 1000s of other "investment management companies" made up their own dollars over time but most of those companies either disappeared with their own made up dollars or the made up dollars crashed in value like beanie babies in the 90s. If you don't have time to research these so called companies and their imitation dollars then thats fine, most of the time its not worth the risk. We know blackrock has too much power to fail or "rug". Bitcoin is the most sophisticated and highest performing deflationary financial product we've ever seen. There is no other set and forget option in the cryptosphere, I had to learn that the hard way. You can choose to actually buy the asset (which is a bit of a learning curve) or just trade the price action through centralized platform or ETF.

BreeYourSissy

Right, but if you mess up the address, it's gone forever. If you forget those 12 words, like in a house fire, you're done. The downsides to ETF are 1/10 of a percent per year, totally reasonable way to manage tail risk. Likelihood of a house fire in the US is 1 in 400 per year.

Far-Department-4196

For me it was just bad timing, I need to cash in some ETF’s for my down payment on a home.

Notrustjustverify

The fact that you’re buying BTC etf instead of actual bitcoin with self custody and asking for affirmation to your move, means you haven’t understood bitcoin yet. ETF that you have bought is just a certificate which believe it or not can very easily be poofed from your possession by governmental laws.  If you ever want to learn about BTC this is a good resource: https://www.satsvsfiat.com/starter

jcook54

Every time I purchase Bitcoin I throw the same amount at a good ETF or dividend stock to minimize risk (at least in my own mind). It's a mind game but I'm more of a 'buy it and forget about it' investor. It has worked well for me and when I combine that practice with time, it takes the edges of the ups and down.

NotTryingToOffendYou

Looks like wash sale does not apply to crypto but would for ETF version.

NotTryingToOffendYou

Yeah looks like the 30 days does not apply to crypto, but of course would for ETF version. So it should work. Good to know.

Darryl_444

I think on a 4-year cycle it's still technically called investing. Certainly not day-trading, and not even swing-trading as that is defined in days/weeks. But IDC about labels, really. Being honest, HODL would have made me more wealthy over the long term. But with much higher risk along the way. Clarity of hindsight makes that risk seem insignificant today, but of course that's not how it works in real time. And I know myself pretty well: I'm no steely-eyed, diamond-handed perma-bull. There were several long periods of time where I had no BTC exposure at all. Didn't get the timing perfectly right (especially at first) but made good gains each cycle and slept well. On a *risk-adjusted basis*, I'm quite happy with the performance, especially lately (learning curve applies). Now we'll see how the inverse BTC ETF performs (first cycle trying this, will be cautious, averaging in a portion of the recent gains only). PS: All this is a small-ish portion of my portfolio. Most is boring index funds etc. Because I'm old.

Lobolabahia

Fair enough, but that's exactly my doubt, the ETF's playing their part... That's why I was seeing $69K as a potential good entry level, but you may be right... Guess we'll see :)

FinallyArt

Getting close to capitulation here... can only watch it go down everyday for six weeks for so long. Also being in an ETF I'll be helpless all weekend if this pattern keeps up and we're down to 70K by Monday or worse.

_DigiTap

A few things hit the market at once ETF outflows, fear from the tech/AI sell-off, and a lot of over-leveraged longs getting liquidated. That combo pushed prices down fast ))

watch-nerd

The ETF liquidity goes both ways, yes.

CryptographerNo9254

I saw this post somewhere today. “20B liquidated in 24 hours, $41B since October 1st, and not a single clear trigger. No macro shock. No ETF drama. No protocol failure. Just forced selling, thin liquidity, and silence. This is why the CLARITY Act matters: real monitoring, real audits, real transparency. Volatility is normal. Mystery isn’t.”

Sacrificed

Who is the incremental buyer after we already exhausted MSTR leverage, ETF flows, and the Trump government pump? Running out of bigger pools of capital unless we expect people to sell off useful assets (stocks/real estate) to invest in magic internet money.

Rainyfriedtofu

Very good. Bitcoin Crashes Below $82,000: BlackRock Leads Massive ETF Sell-Off as Crypto Faces Liquidity Crunch [https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/](https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/) we know who is selling

Rainyfriedtofu

# Bitcoin Crashes Below $82,000: BlackRock Leads Massive ETF Sell-Off as Crypto Faces Liquidity Crunch [https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/](https://azat.tv/en/bitcoin-crashes-blackrock-etf-selloff-liquidity-crunch/) we know who is selling

carsonthecarsinogen

I hit a 4x on one of my ETFs but I got greedy and lost half the gains with a 2x ETF😭

Abject-Stretch-1187

I don’t even know why he or she thinks it’s the ETF that’s causing the drawdowns when OGs, paper hands and degenerate traders are most likely the culprit lol 

bananabastard

So it looks like we're having the downside of euphoria, the sobering crash, but without the actual euphoria part. I'd contest the idea that the ETF news brought BTC euphoria. It brought expectation of coming euphoria.

New_Lengthiness7018

That’s because the liquidity went to AI, Tech and Gold this cycle, there was actually Euphoria in 2024 went we went from 60-100+k on ETF news. It’s called diminishing returns from cycle top to cycle top. Those waiting for euphoria are going to be in for a bad time.

GrumpyScroogy

You thought Wall Street would just wave Bitcoin in with open arms? They want their cut and that's not possible through DAT's. They want their ETF fees. Simple as that. They dont give a f\*ck about the price the asset is as long as they get their yearly management fee.

Impossible_Nature849

No, you hit the "sell" button if it's an ETF, or you collected your guaranteed income if it's a single bond. The horror.

No_South_9912

It's going back up over the weekend when ETF holders can't buy.

flossanotherday

Bitcoin teaching the people. ETF’s , new players but same bitcoin behavior as ever, the big moves never disappear.

giottus

OG whales selling has been obvious from the on-chain flows for weeks now. When someone who’s been holding since 2011 drops 11k BTC into the market, that’s real sell pressure not ETF noise, not retail panic. Long-term holders taking profit always shakes the market in every cycle. The important thing is what happens after the distribution phase: new buyers eventually absorb supply and the market resets for the next leg. Nothing unusual here just the classic transfer from old hands to new hands. If you’re long-term, zoom out and keep perspective.

Outsider-Trading

Yeah ETFs accumulated BTC faster than any other ETF asset in history because it's going to zero. Sharp insight from reddit's best minds.

Nearby-End3551

Xrp is going under a $1 again. ETF won't do much to help.

RandomJoe7

What you learned now and in 2021, I learned in 2017 and 2021. This time I did it differently, bought big chunk during lowest bear and sold it last month near the top (not perfect top, but that doesn't matter). The first time I actually took real profits, and I'm super happy about not doing the same mistakes like last 2 cycles. My honest advice from my journey (but obviously, this is not professional financial advice): your exact mindset of "I'm in the minus now, I wont sell now" is what caused me my biggest losses. The "hopium" of thinking I just have to wait and everything will be fine. SomeMost alts I rode all the way to -90%, they will NEVER recover (a major one of those being a Top 5 alt coin in 2017... and now it's barely Top 100 and basically dead). Even holding BTC/ETC through the massive drops after the bull were huge mistakes. Even just selling at break even or loss in the last cycles would have given me much more liquidity to 1) make money (opportunity cost) during the bear with other investments, even if it's just a savings account interest or low risk ETF and 2) to buy much more BTC during this bear. It's a big mistake to just hold on and wait things out for years... it'll end up costing you a lot more than you think.

Y0l0BallsDeep

Shit is different this time. There are a ton of BTC-treasury companies leveraged to the absolute hilt, and once they start getting margin-called, they’ll be forced to dump their Bitcoin. That kind of cascading liquidation will nuke the price so violently that nobody will want to touch BTC with a ten-foot pole for years. If it were me, I’d have a stop-loss somewhere in the $70–74k range and be ready to unload everything. And let’s be real: the average BTC ETF buyer is already underwater at current levels. MicroStrategy’s effective BTC cost basis is roughly $74k — so if that pig starts going tits-up, you’re going to wish you bailed early rather than watched it crater.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) ETF experienced significant outflows in November, shedding $2.47 billion, contributing to a record $3.79 billion in US spot Bitcoin ETF withdrawals for the month. Fidelity's Wise Origin Bitcoin Fund also saw substantial outflows, totaling $1.09 billion. These outflows have pushed November to become the worst month on record for Bitcoin ETF redemptions, surpassing February's previous record. The downturn has coincided with Bitcoin's price drop to its lowest level in seven months. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Jonyesh-2356

2 BTC ETF & rest go to Index fund . 10 yrs wait time & you flip it for 3 houses 😎✌️

SeaworthinessSad7300

ok break it down for me? You sell IBIT and buy BTC and the IRS dont consider it to be buying the same thing. Maybe USA is more loose but here in Australia the ATO will look and see if its effectively the same thing. They would consider an ETF of gold to be the same as buying gold bars. I have read their content on this and if its effectively the same underlying asset they wont let you get away with it

thechonkiestchonk

Can I play devils advocate for a hot second. Not gonna pretend I know anything more than anyone else but I do feel the need to say that “this time is different” yes I know I know. This time though we have ETF flows, less volatility as time goes on, more of a global macro asset with sovereign nations buying and holding and selling Bitcoin, institutional demand is changing, the strategic Bitcoin reserve, the Bitcoin infrastructure is more robust than ever, adaptation is growing, knowledge is spreading. Just some things to think aboot

tornavec

It could get much uglier. If crypto ETF and derivative investors get wiped out, the government will face backlash for ever approving their listing.

Romanizer

US-based institutions with >$100m AUM are roughly 40% of all ETF holdings now, heavily increased in Q3 2025. Institutional buying pressure is there and they won't sell. If you plan to hold for decades, you are currently buying for a heavy discount.

No_Artichoke_5670

No. None of the signs are in. Everyone's been saying since the end of last cycle that this cycle would be more drawn out because of the institutional investing. We haven't had "blow-off top" even yet. Long term hodler whales are still accumulating, not selling. ETF inflows still positive. No miner capitulation yet. Interest rates are falling and DXY is weakening. We're at the last correction right before the final leg, if I had to guess. Whether the top really blows off like it has in previous cycles still remains to be seen, as the institutional investing may dull the parabolic spike.

Accomplished-Stick67

Seriously folks just be ready for $55,000. That was the initial price before Trump and ETF's hyped up. This is a speculative asset. Its not even ment to be a part of the market action. I purchased 2 coins in 2020 sold few months after Trump hyped not buying until April 2026