ETF

Useful_Calendar_6274

ETF

Thin_Database3002

Neither answer as an absolute is the right one. The smart move is to divide up one's holdings so there is never a 100% risk of loss. Or put it in an ETF with a large heavily-regulated brokerage like Fidelity, Blackrock, etc, especially if investing with retirement holdings.

lives_in_a_pineapple

You are a fool for believing this. Please do some research before spouting off. "Exchange hacks dominate in total dollars stolen by a wide margin—multiple orders of magnitude larger for confirmed third-party remote thefts of significant size." We are talking 8.5 BILLION PLUS lost to exchanges vs an extremely rare fringe case hardware hack. Coldcard is one of the first significant cases of a hardware exploit. If you think any of these exchanges are too big to fail, thats on you. Again, if youre too incompetent for self custody, stay home and buy an ETF or something. You dont belong on the blockchain.

abitofcoinOTC

Good questions. If you hold cryptocurrency at Robinhood Crypto, you're trusting Robinhood Crypto to custody your bitcoins. You own actual bitcoins that you are free to withdraw if Robinhood Crypto permits it. Your risks are account compromise or Robinhood Crypto insolvency. If you hold a bitcoin ETF, you don't quite own actual bitcoin. Your primary risk is that the custodian the ETF issuer is using loses the coins. The ETF does not insulate you from the realities of holding cryptocurrency. If the ETF issuer loses the cryptocurrency, you're still left holding the bag. You're still at risk of account compromise, although potentially to a slightly lesser extent depending on what brokerage you're using, and somewhat less at risk of brokerage insolvency because the equities you own in your brokerage account typically are not part of a bankruptcy estate (in most cases of cryptocurrency exchange insolvency, customer cryptocurrency balances were part of the bankruptcy estate) and because of SIPC protection. It's also important to consider fees: I would expect Robinhood Crypto to charge you more for buying and selling, but they won't charge you anything for holding, whereas the ETF won't cost as much to trade but will have an annual fee.

Laukess

You'll have to pay the taxes on your sale either way. If you don't care about self custody, the ETF will be fine. Maybe in the future we'll see in-kind redemption for retail.

Xnove

Opensource, or something that can be hold accountable, like an ETF if you are not tech educated

Certified_Outcast

The only work around for the ETFs are when you put them in the retirement fund for tax advantages. I dont know if I will ever self custody but thanks for mentioning the tax aspects. The ETF has maintainence fees and tax implications so there is a downside. I guess the safety of the ETF comes with a price. My biggest concern is storing crypto long term on the exchange. Most people say that it should be moved to cold storage and not left on the exchange. Being that I dont want to self custody at the moment, ill just have to go the ETF route and pay the taxes later which will suck but its whatever. Thanks again for your insight!

Laukess

As i said, I don't own any ETF's so I don't follow the space that closely. One trade-off is that if you want to self custody later, with the ETF's you'll have to sell, pay tax, and then buy the bitcoin. By holding bitcoin on an exchange/app you can always just move them to self custody without paying any taxes, as there was no sales event, if they allow you to withdraw your bitcoin, that is. I don't know if there's any workaround for the ETF's. I think I heard about some service where you could avoid it, but I haven't looked into it.

Certified_Outcast

Thank you! It definitely seems like storing cyrpto on the robinhood exchange might be too risky. I will be going the ETF route.

DifficultSquash1517

A better DCA would be to spread out among a few months If you're only interested in the price action just buy the ETF it's a lot safer and as a added bonus you could make one to 2% every month just writing calls on it 😮

fan_of_hakiksexydays

Long list of reasons. But to summarize, risk of custody vs risk of a broker account, and get benefit of self custody vs the benefits of an ETF. Basically enjoying the benefits of both, but not putting all eggs in one.

Certified_Outcast

Wow that sucks. What is the good reason? Did they suspect fraud? And it seems like they froze both your brokerage and your crypto exchange, so if that happened to me, the ETF would also be frozen because I would be using robinhood as my brokerage for the ETF as well. It seems like the freezing is why most ppl hate robinhood.

SallyYoung1

Why would you buy an ETH etf and also ETH? Surely just choose one or the other... And even then, why an ETF when you can gain direct exposure?

aznpridesu

If you decided to go with ETF make sure to diversify. like spread your investments among IBIT, FBTC , ARKB tickers.

fan_of_hakiksexydays

25% actual BTC 30% BTC ETF 10% actual ETH 15% ETH ETF 10% BTC perp long 5% ETH perp long 5% ADA perp long

Certified_Outcast

Lol im mostly a long term investor but I get it. When everyone is trying to make trades they can freeze it and you cant make the trades you want. Im definitely going to get the ETF because I dont want to get a self custody wallet. And I am realizing the robinhood exchange is not insured and they can freeze us out during high volatility periods.

Certified_Outcast

Thank you so much! Ive been trying to find YouTube videos that explain this and no one really mentions this. They only talk about ETF vs self custody. Im now learning that storing the crypto on the exchange is not safe due to lack of regulations and insurance protections. I will definitely be going the ETF route since im not interested in storing it in a self custody wallet.

wolfofone

I would trust Fidelity or Schwab and a BTC ETF before I would trust Robinhood anything much less Robinhood Crypto. I would go ETF with the SIPC peace of mind or buy on Strike etc and self custody. I wouldnt half ass this. Just look at all the crypto custodial platforms that have failed.

Informal-Height7138

Your instinct on holding both is better than the reasoning most of this thread is using. Notice what actually failed here. It wasn’t a stolen device, it wasn’t phishing, it wasn’t your operational discipline. Key generation itself was weak, silently, for years, in a way no user could have inspected or tested. That’s a supply-chain and firmware risk, and it’s a category most people never priced in because the whole appeal of the device was that it removed risk. Which is why replacing one hardware wallet with a different hardware wallet isn’t diversification. It’s the same failure mode with a different logo — you’re just betting that this manufacturer’s engineering held where the other one didn’t, and you have no way to check that either. What you’re describing with an ETF alongside self-custody is different, and it’s the part worth thinking about. Those two fail for unrelated reasons: one is exposed to counterparty, custodian and regulatory risk, the other to firmware and your own operational error. Neither is safer in the abstract. But they’re unlikely to break on the same day for the same cause, and after this week that’s the property actually worth having.

Dutchpapersilver666

ETF garbage is what killed it. Brilliant plan to create bagholders holding about 10.000 different "tokens" each with 5-50 M in marketcap.... $500 billion in "dead" money easy. Glad I got out with a little in cash profits back in early 25....After losing 75% of the initial profits. I would be at -90% of original purchasing price if I had HODLed...jeezzz. So? This is so dead for a reason

Zestyclose_Ad2462

Proposed BTC holdings: 10% in a cold wallet w/multisig or 2FA 10% left on a reputable exchange 40% in one ETF using one custodian 40% in another using another custodian This minimizes the possibility you'll get Cold Carded. Even if you do and it's a complete loss, you still have 90% of your portfolio. Ditto if your exchange goes under. ETF's aren't guaranteed but I'd bet good $ Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab etc employ better (and far more) cyber-security nerds than any cold wallet. Let's look at Fidelity. They're the largest custodian in the US, with over 17 TRILLION assets under management. There's at least a CHANCE they'd make people whole. Otherwise, why would people keep their money with them? They'd forever be known as the custodian who got hacked and people lost everything. Conversely if they stepped up and made people whole, I bet they'd see a LOT of new customers. And few, if any existing customers leaving. Just my opinion

zenethics

You're right. The only option for storage in 2026 is some startup with 3.5 million in revenue and 5 employees. You _have_ to use coldcard because your favorite podcaster told you to. Nevermind Trezor, Ledger, Coinbase, the ETF, MSTR. When it comes to self custody for substantial funds, the only real choice is to go off the beaten path and to use something a bootstrapped startup made with low funding. The podcast cold storage startup was the smartest choice. The only choice, when you think about it.

MetaGryphon

Considering crypto is 1% only of all money invested globally so it is advised to own not more than 10% of your portfolio in crypto. Everything else in world ETF or into judicious stock picking.

Squeiner

Im sure thats true for you and no judgement here man, but we have different likes and interests, values, and priorities.  I like this stuff. I listen to podcasts about it when im in the car. I spend my off time reading about it. Im a nerd. You might say an amateur woodworker is way over complicating his life when he builds his own bookshelf at great cost in money, time and effort, instead of just getting a perfectly good free one from marketplace same-day, there are tons in there. But he likes doing it. His interest wasn't just to own a bookshelf, it was to build one, and to learn as much as possible while doing so. Of course there's an easier way, a prepackaged alternative, and I wouldn't discourage you from choosing that or judge you for it, by all means. But I like doing this. Im interested in doing my own thing, it brings me joy, and learning about it is engaging and entertaining and honestly thrilling much of the time. That's most of the reason im here, writing these long as comments. I love talking about it. I value self reliance. Handing over my money to some bank or brokerage for safekeeping because its easier than doing it myself is not a tradeoff I'm keen to make. I value autonomy. Asking blackrock or whoever to open an account for me and then to do this or that with my assets is odious to me when I can create my own keys and broadcast my own transactions without anyone else being involved at all. I value freedom. I much prefer having the ability to send any amount of my coins to anyone anywhere anytime for any reason than to be constrained in all those aspects by the arbitrary rules of an issuer.  We likely have similar ones, but my priorities include things that you probably don't care much about, though I couldn't say for sure, it just sounds like it. We both likely have wealth accumulation pretty close to the tippy top of our lists of priorities, and exposure to bitcoin's price appreciation is therefore something we both want. Your ETFs and my self custodied coins both serve that priority very effectively. But another item very high on my list of priorities is working towards the separation of money and state, and the transition to a global bitcoin standard. Holding BTC in self custody is how I serve these priorities. Holding an ETF is how you work against them. So again, no judgement to you man, by all means, get your ETFs and enjoy your life. This is how I enjoy mine.

DiamondHandsDarrell

BTC absorbed a ridiculous amount of bad news this year: war, the oil shock, a hawkish Fed, 5%+ long bonds, record ETF outflows, Strategy selling below cost, and massive capital flowing into AI, semiconductors and related infrastructure. Yet it held the range. Now oil is substantially lower, long yields are easing, the dollar is softer, rate hike expectations are coming down, ETF inflows are starting to return, and BTC is still sitting around the mid-$60Ks. That doesn’t mean it’s about to moon, and it’s not investment advice. It just means the “Bitcoin is dead” narrative doesn’t really match what the market has actually absorbed. It survived almost everything that should have crushed it. Now the interesting question is what happens if some of those headwinds finally start turning into tailwinds.

devCheckingIn

ETF inflows every day this week! 🤩

UzItOrLuzIt

Too much...just way too much. You are way over complicating your life unnecessarily. Lots of added security I'm sure, but at what point do you stop? No doubt, you will still pine over your how protected you are indefinitely for no reason when you could be enjoying your life instead. Not that I necessarily "like and subscribe", but a .25%/yr ETF pretty much lets you move on without worrying about jackshit anymore.

FreezedPeachNow

Changing the world for the better through Bitcoin is a 50 year+ battle and were only on year 17. If this just becomes an ETF dominated thing and self custody goes away, Bitcoin didn't win. In 30 years you'll look back at this bump in the road and say that it was worth it to self custody

blinkOneEightyBewb

You could use a password manager... Or just buy the ETF. But I guess your brokerage account will need a password too, oh no...

YellowRobeSmith

Happy to help, I recently sold all of my BTC from my wallet and moved it to the Fidelity FBTC ETF so had to follow those same steps.

Laukess

Is that insurance they provide through a 3rd party? Do you pay a premium to use their service? Does this extend to their ETF? (I think they are one of the few providers that does not use Coinbase as a custodian). I'm just curious, because I doubt they'll be able to pay out of pocket, so they would have to use a 3rd party for insurance, and they surely want a to get paid, so Fidelity would have to charge a premium.

YellowRobeSmith

Depends really. If you aren't planning using BTC for buying things on a routine basis, then an ETF is fine for most. Especially for those who have no idea how to be their own bank.

piejlucas

Anyone looking to buy a considerable amount of crypto as a store of value these days is far better off buying an ETF like IBIT. No sense putting your money at risk with self custody especially if one has no clue what proper security looks like. The learning curve was already steep and it just now got steeper with this entropy bs.

ubermensch1001

This is last part you mentioned with complaints about Coinkite going back to 2021 is EXACTLY what I've been talking about that the other poster was completely ignoring. I've been trying to find it to link it, but this past weekend there was a youtuber with a video from late 2021 or so talking about this that was getting a ton of attention after the Cold Card hack. As you said, the company would have heard about this AND ignored it. I'm expecting there to be a lot with this case coming out over the next several months, so it will be interesting. As for my comments about the masses not utilizing self custody, I still stand by that. I'm not saying people should or should not rely on tradfi institutions for their crypto holdings, but the reality is that when this starts becoming more mainstream and regulated this is going to happen naturally. You are going to have a bunch of people at say Charles Schwab or whatever institution with investment portfolios and they are advised to allocate x% into a BTC ETF. That's exactly what's going to happen, doesn't matter if you or I agree with it or not. The reality is that there is a risk with self custody, and the biggest and most common risk is people screwing up the process somehow to where they get locked out of their funds, lose their seeds or expose them to the internet. There are plenty of stories you can find across the internet about this where someone downloads a fake app that asks for them to type in their seeds or where they kept their seeds on a file of some sort on their phone or computer. Again, I'm not saying that people should avoid self custody and utilize tradfi institutions for their holdings, but the reality is that most will go this route. In fact, especially after this Cold Card incident. This Cold Card hack while awful only affected a very tiny number of actual wallets/addresses, but the biggest ramifications of this is people being scared away from self custody and questioning their security measures. Even I've been reflecting upon this and thinking about getting a 3rd wallet and either utilizing a very strong passphrase or even taking the time to learn how to use multi sig. I used to see a simple passphrase as a measure to take in case someone were to get a physical copy of my actual keys/seeds, which would be difficult in itself, but after this Cold Card incident it's made me reevaluate.

Badj83

lol wdym? ColdCard was chilled by everyone as the top best way to self custody. Don’t come acting like people who used it were wreckless or dumb or ill informed. Any other more complicated wallet is just out of reach for the average holder. For me SC just failed to democratize and get safe and easy enough after all those years. I tried it, but swapped it for ETF now (for ease of use and tax incentives) and I am so glad I did.

BrawndoCrave

ETF starting to sound better

Zestyclose_Ad2462

Planes crash all the time. Do people stop flying? No. Why? Because the crash was caused by pilot error, mechanical fault, weather etc and NOT a flaw in flying itself. Crashes are studied and improvements/corrections are made. As a result, flying is safer today than it ever has been. Bitcoin did not fail. On the contrary, it succeeded. The price went UP and will keep doing so. Why? The network still works. Transactions still process. Institutional adoption continues to accelerate. I do agree having your life savings in ANY 1 place/investment is asking for it. But you can self-custody with other safeguards, leave some on a reputable exchange and invest the bulk in ETF's using various custodians. To indict an entire asset class just because ONE cold wallet company was negligent is.... wrong. But I won't stop you from sticking with "safe" investments. There are still people that write snail mail letters, vs email. The world has passed them by, they just don't realize it.

DifficultSquash1517

I don't know what everybody's aversion is to just holding the ETF I mean isn't everybody in for the price action? To those that are reading this that are in for the tech, I apologize How financially illiterate to someone have to be to think that it's safer in a wallet than it is at an institution like Schwab or fidelity and that black rock would not make good on your holdings when THEY don't roll the dice 🤷 And the most obvious play is that you get to write covered calls on your ETF holdings generating one to 2% every month 😮 How much do you have to hate money in order to leave it in your cold storage where it earns 0 when you could be earning 2% monthly?

Downtown-Ice7534

Also diversify! Hold two brands of cold wallets, maybe also some funds in CB or other exchanges and buy IBIT ETF

sajalsarwar

Can do ETF.

YellowRobeSmith

For those of you who still don't know how to be your own bank, buy the ETF instead please.

Scared-Permit2587

I was continuously called a moron by some of my BTC "friends" for buying one of the BTC ETFs instead of self custody. Since it tracks the price of BTC exactly, if BTC were ever to go to the moon, the ETF would track identically. I don't self custody my stock certificates either or self custody cash under the mattress. Perhaps all the BTC self custody maximalists owe people that wanted to participate in BTC via the ETFs an apology.

DiamondHandsDarrell

BTC absorbed a ridiculous amount of bad news this year: war, the oil shock, a hawkish Fed, 5%+ long bonds, record ETF outflows, Strategy selling below cost, and massive capital flowing into AI, semiconductors and related infrastructure. Yet it held the range. Now oil is substantially lower, long yields are easing, the dollar is softer, rate hike expectations are coming down, ETF inflows are starting to return, and BTC is still sitting around the mid-$60Ks. That doesn’t mean it’s about to moon, and it’s not investment advice. It just means the “Bitcoin is dead” narrative doesn’t really match what the market has actually absorbed. It survived almost everything that should have crushed it. Now the interesting question is what happens if some of those headwinds finally start turning into tailwinds.

DiamondHandsDarrell

BTC absorbed a ridiculous amount of bad news this year: war, the oil shock, a hawkish Fed, 5%+ long bonds, record ETF outflows, Strategy selling below cost, and massive capital flowing into AI, semiconductors and related infrastructure. Yet it held the range. Now oil is substantially lower, long yields are easing, the dollar is softer, rate hike expectations are coming down, ETF inflows are starting to return, and BTC is still sitting around the mid-$60Ks. That doesn’t mean it’s about to moon, and it’s not investment advice. It just means the “Bitcoin is dead” narrative doesn’t really match what the market has actually absorbed. It survived almost everything that should have crushed it. Now the interesting question is what happens if some of those headwinds finally start turning into tailwinds.

BigvalBROski

Add a passphrase or just buy the ETF. Buying the ETF much easier …..

Special-Rub-5694

yeah with my conspiracy hat on, in 2021 march was the same time when coldcard introduced that bug, the CTO talked about the retirement hack, and fidelity had their ETF.

tenor_tymir

Are they real BTC or an ETF? Can you withdraw your coins any time? What insurance (law?) covers digital assets like BTC?

Zestyclose_Ad2462

That's what I did too. In fact, I bought 2 ETF's (using diff custodians) reasoning that the biggest risk was custodial failure/hacking/user error. Now we can add gross negligence to that list. Too many black swans IMO. At some point, one is going to occur.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

Here's my take on self-custody: You should have some BTC in a hardware wallet, but only a small amount (say, 10%). The important part isn't how much is there, it's that you've built it should you ever really need it. Keep another 10% on a reputable exchange, 40% in an ETF using one custodian and 40% in another ETF using a different custodian. Presto - 80% of your BTC now enjoys institutional grade security. The .20 or .25 expense ratio you pay every year is money well spent IMO. Especially if you're no programmer/cyber-whiz. We are not there yet insofar as cold wallets. BTC itself takes a LOT of self-education and a cold wallet takes even more. Unless and until there's some recourse for a mistake, hack or coding error, self-custody will remain a fringe activity. We need better tools.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

You are right to be hesitant. So... Put some BTC in a cold wallet (with 2FA or multi-sig), keep some on a reputable exchange and put the bulk into 2 different ETF's using at least 2 DIFFERENT custodians. Your BTC is now custodied across 4 different entities, 2 of which have institutional grade cyber-security. Fidelity, Blackrock employ entire departments of cyber-security folks and have over a trillion in assets to employ the best of them. This is their sole purpose. Nothing in life is 100%. If all of your eggs are in one basket, get out NOW before you too, have your life savings vaporized.

BeginningMost6014

Just buy an ETF

Maleficent_Pool_4456

I think you're right that it's going to hurt self-custody in favor of people going to ETF's and diversification.

Fair_Vermicelli_727

Yep im just using an ETF in my retirement account with my bank now, no more cold storage b.s: its giving me anxiety. Its just extra headache anyway.

BigvalBROski

Passphrase or buy the ETF.

andreas_europe

Would advice not too overcomplicate things. A multi sign - at least how is fine today - is a nightmare. Maybe you know how is fine right, but would your inheritance know it? A really strong passphrase gives you a strong security and also a non technical person could easier understand it, if you write in your last will down, what they need and how to add the parcel together.  If you know what you do, then you can additionally dice roll your own seedphrase if you don't trust the RNG of your HWW. Additionally I would advice not to put all eggs in one basket. Therefore if you have life changing money split if over a few hardware wallets (from different brands) and an ETF. Maybe that is unsexy, but the scenario that you would loose all in a single event, is close to zero. Stay safe.

riscten

Learning self-custody doesn't require more work than opening a tradfi investing account. Possibly even less. The setup I've described has little to no risk. Plus, any risk that it has will be inherent to an ETF, because the people managing the ETFs need to do Bitcoin custody anyway. ETFs are only backed by law. If the law turns against you, you are deprived of ownership. Bitcoin is backed by code and math. As long as you understand the rules, nobody can take it away from you. Most importantly, Bitcoin was created with one of its main principle being to avoid the opaque shenanigans of traditional finance. The sort of "creative" structuring that lead to the 2008 crisis. Bitcoin only works if every transaction is transparent, every coin is tracked, verifiably, through code, not legal promises. If you hide Bitcoin back behind private, unverifiable databases, you're basically doing fiat with extra steps.

dvondurden

All of this is a lot more work, requires much more knowledge and comes with its own types of risk. How exactly is this "infinitely safer than any ETF"? And yes, you are essentially outsourcing this with an ETF. Low fees and high security. How would you end up empty handed in a financial crisis? It's still 100% backed by real BTC, legally yours and separated from the issuer.

riscten

Self-custody has been around for as long as Bitcoin existed, and the best practices are well established and documented today. You just need to put in the time.  Those who lose money are the ones who just wing it. They buy a shiny device thinking it'll protect them without understanding what's going on behind the scenes. 2-of-3 multisig, with mnemonics stamped on metal and geographically distributed. That's the way to do it for funds you can't afford to lose. Infinitely safer than any ETF. Going with the ETF is just paying someone else to do it for you, with the increased risk that you might end up empty-handed in the kind of traditional financial crisis Bitcoin was specifically created as a response to.

MetaGryphon

If you still have money to invest, invest in ETF or stock picking.in the real economy. Holding bitcoin just for the sake of holding bitcoin is nonsense. Having bitcoin to spend them later is fine. That was their main purpose.

BeautifulSeason8387

This is impossible, because ETF (aka paper botcoin) make lower new price discovery... Something realistic is 150k or 180k or maybe 190k ... I'm waiting the oil shock, trump lies won’t resist reality. For now, US & friends are trying to act as if everything is fine and the blockade of Hormuz isn't causing anything at all—lol.

dvondurden

I completely agree that real network participants are necessary to keep its integrity. I'm saying the average user just wants to buy and hold anyway. For that purpose the ETF is the safer option

IBAN-IBON64

Diversification. BTC SP500 ETF ARISTOCRATES ...

Aggravating_Shower_6

Went to the Schwab ETF years ago and sleep well every night

Dilan57169

If you had $1m in BTC, $2500 a year is the annual cost of this ETF. Up to the individual to decide if that’s worth it.

devCheckingIn

MOAR ETF inflows! 🤪

Dilan57169

I completely understand and respect the ETF route. It’s a legitimate option that allows individuals to gain exposure to Bitcoin without directly holding the asset. While some OG bitcoiners maybe puking as they read your post, saying the importance of “not your key, not your coin,” it’s worth considering the benefits of using an ETF. Sleeping soundly knowing that your Bitcoin is securely held and insured in an ETF is an invaluable peace of mind that money cannot buy. While there are potential issues such as account freezes etc. But generally, the fact that you can easily contact a brokerage manager to resolve problems is a significant advantage. It’s worth noting that individuals who had their coins stolen from their cold card did not have the option of complaining to their brokerage manager.

Charge36

Says who? You are free to buy and sell bitcoin as you please, but so are financial institutions who want to package it into ETF

riscten

ETF is only good for market exposure. Bitcoin completely loses its usefulness if you store it as an ETF. It's like buying a Ferrari, parking it in a temperature-controlled basement, and then handing the keys to your accountant. If all Bitcoins were bought as ETFs, there would be no point to Bitcoin and thus it would be worthless.

puck2

mainstream adoption can do the other things (coinbase, ETF, robinhood, cashapp, etc)

dvondurden

There isn't one right answer for everyone obviously. That's why I specified it. My point is that many are still practicing self custody while the ETF would be the better choice for them. Most people don't want to travel anywhere with their money.

SmokeAndSkate

I don’t understand why people approach this topic like there is one right answer. For people who want to be self sovereign and travel anywhere in the world with their money, self custody Bitcoin is best option hands down. For the people who don’t want to stress about seed words and entropy, the ETF is great. Exhausting conversation.

submarinefarm

There was a post from 2y ago where someone said 95% of their wealth is in BTC on a coldcard but they are considering converting to an ETF. I do wonder what happened.

s1ammage

IMO Bitkey is for the spouse/non-technical family/friends that supports your cause. It eliminates the barrier to entry into “self-custody” and is very new-friendly. Better than the ETF, better than holding on an exchange.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

Not your ETF shares, not your coins.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

When a plane crashes, does everyone stop flying? No. In fact, because of crash investigations, air travel is far safer today than just a few years ago. The problem isn't air travel. It's usually pilot error, mechanical fault or weather. BTC is not "broken". In fact it's much safer today than it was just 3 years ago (because of ETF's), better hard wallets and many exchanges being regulated. Please don't give up on BTC. Nothing in its value proposition has fundamentally changed. The network still runs. Transactions still process. Institutional adoption is still accelerating. It is only going to get bigger, better and more valuable.

Suspicious-Holiday42

there is no single ETF that has world stocks plus bitcoin

Zestyclose_Ad2462

If a plane crashes, would you stop flying forever? No. The cause of the crash is studied and identified. Reforms are put in place and as a result, air travel is safer today than it ever was. The safest way to travel, statistically speaking. Many had their money stolen this past week, through no fault of their own. Likewise, many people in plane crashes lose their lives. Almost always through no fault of their own. Self-custody should not be shunned entirely. A prudent person never puts all his eggs in one basket. Put some BTC in a cold wallet/self-custody, some on an exchange, some in an ETF using one custodian. Some in another ETF using a different custodian. There are a lotta people here with all their eggs in one basket. This is your chance to diversify before you too, get vaporized.

JeffthefearlessDog

putting all eggs in one basket also applies to hardware wallets if you decide to put all your life savings in BTC which is not necessarily optimal. Spreading out your bitcoin to several hardware wallets of different vendors, ETF, Exchanges and stock of BTC companies might be a good idea if your funds exceed a level you dont want to lose at once. Still, its so very sad. You\`d think you can trust a company that has trust as its whole business model.

Maximum_Natural_8915

this fund only had around $14.7M, while BlackRock’s one has over $47B. Feels less like people are done with Bitcoin and more like the smallest ETF just couldn’t compete.

Ill-Party8305

The roll dice is not intended for mass adoption, CEX and ETF is there for mass adoption.

Darkpriest667

he doesn't understand scarcity and ETF investment.

le_iub

I think that ETF inflow are people dropping cold wallets and going to ETF

recklessjewel

just buy the ETF

BigvalBROski

Use a passphrase or just buy the ETF… This is 2026 not 2016.

schmuhmuhu

Road to 1 billion HBAR ETF holdings

devCheckingIn

Three straight days of ETF inflows. 😍 Smart Money(TM) is loading their bags.

Patrick_Atsushi

It's not yet widely adapted yet. Once it reaches that stage, a standard will emerge and applications will sprout. So far most who has invested in cryptos are in forms of ETF or even products from banks.

moviemaker2

>You talk about knowing all this and that but yet you even stated you recommended Cold Card yourself lol. I did, along with lots of other people who know more about this topic than you do, and I love how you add the "lol", as if you knew beforehand about this firmware flaw rather than only hearing about Coldcards recently. >when there are multiple reposts from YEARS ago with customers talking about issues with their Cold Cards, having funds drained and one being blocked by the company itself after reaching out to their customer service. This is where you are putting your complete ignorance of this topic on full display, again. I even know what post you're referring to and the hilarious thing is that I know you didn't even read it, because it doesn't say what you and all the other morons who link to it think it says. Every single example in there is either user error, or something as yet unexplained that isn't consistent with this bug. >What wallets would you recommend to others, why is this and what security parameters do you think they should take to protect themselves from something like what happened with Cold Card or any other hypothetical scenario. My first recommendation is that Hardware wallets are not the only place you should store crypto: I advocate spreading your holdings across multiple reputable exchanges, multiple reputable hardware wallets, and even an ETF. For hardware recommendations, I have always pointed to Trezors and Jades. I've stopped recommending Coldcards as of this firmware fiasco, just like I stopped recommending Ledgers after their firmware fiasco in 2023. I primarily recommended Coldcards because of their implementation of entropy via dice rolls, and as it happens, everyone who took that advice is unaffected by this particular vulnerability. (I still fully rescend any endorsement for Coldcards though). I previously advocated that multisig wallets and passphrases were overkill measures for most people that introduced their own risks, but I'm reconsidering passphrases. (multisig is probably an appropriate measure for wallets containing more than a half million or more in crypto especially if it's intended for long term storage.)

Hitachi22

Litecoin's utility is mostly fake. Go any Litecoin explorer and look through the transactions, you'll quickly see hundreds if not thousands of transactions that go from address to address within minutes. Price action doesn't lie. If there was really demand price would reflect that. The biggest proof of no demand is how poor the spot ETF has performed. It's been out for 10 months and barely has $5 million in inflows. Easily the worst crypto ETF by a landslide. Even HBAR etf has $50 million inflows. Those are real facts and proven assets.

Aurorion

As Bitcoin itself? Almost yes. Minus expenses (you can consider this as a small fee that you pay the ETF issuer to hold Bitcoin for you).

Ok-Astronaut4952

Wether or not infesting investing in an ETF meets your definition of using crypto or not, the existence of an ETF means Bitcoin is mainstream as hell

Good_Extension_9642

And that's the reason I ONLY by BTC ETF since their inception

Drakoolya

After all these years People have huge amounts of savings in crypto is what blows my mind. Even Planb one of the biggest bitcoin bulls have moved to ETF's and away from personal holdings. Stealing crypto is easier than stealing gold from your safe these days.

yldf

Insufficient. One physical copy in one place is terrible advice, if you do that you should opt against self-custody and buy an ETF instead.

PuzzleheadedBell4057

I have the same allocation - 80% stocks (mainly broad market ETF), 20% crypto. The 20% crypto allocation contains 10 different coins with BTC and ETH accounting for half the allocation (30% and 20% respectively). I'm old fashion - I believe diversification is key to risk adjusted out-sized returns.

Legitimate_Town_5235

Not enough. The entropy was lacking, a passphrase won’t save these people. ETF is probably good for people who don’t want to hold the real thing and minimize the risk.

MrKillerKiller_

ETF’s? You mean pay middlemen and pay fees and never actually own any assets yourself?

NashDaypring1987

I think there are funds that trade BTC futures. I got burnt by buying farming futures ETF (soy, coffee, etc) because the tax structure was a nightmare. Tax time was a pooh show.

NashDaypring1987

I forgot one last important point regarding BTC ETF's. If you hold it in a taxable account, you have to report the sale of BTC within the ETF. These BTC ETF's sell a little of their BTC to fund the management of the fund. This is technically a taxable event that you have to report. In practice, most people own so little that the IRS probably won't care. It's simply something to be considered.

IInsulince

Thank you for recognizing that there *is* a cost to these things, just not one you deem very high. Most people don’t even grant that much. That said, I understand your position on it. I’ve been subjected to a 60 day holding period before. Is it a big deal? I mean I did get my money eventually, right? Well yea, but imagine I needed those funds urgently. Fortunately I didn’t in my case, but if I had I would have been screwed due to forces outside of my control. As for government regulations, I’m more describing majorly unfair taxes levied against digital assets/unrealized gains, or something like a 6102 attack. It sounds unrealistic. It always does, until it happens. But it’s the idea that the government declares a state of emergency and is required to seize the digital assets of all citizens because it’s causing an economic crisis. They can do this so ridiculously easily through an exchange, ETF, or any centralized custodian, because they are a point of failure that can be targeted. If you self custody, they can’t take it from you without targeting you, which would require: 1. Them even knowing you have any in the first place 2. It being worth it economically and physically to go to your house and compel you to turn it over with force With a custodian, they simply need to deliver the mandate and they will fold. You surely have your own level of incredulity around this scenario, and that’s fine. That’s why it’s a judgement call, and it’s why I don’t judge anyone for how they wish to hold their bitcoin. There’s risks no matter where you turn, so your job is to determine which risk model you find most acceptable, and go there.