ETF

Zombie4141

Also if you were like me and had your Roth in Vanguard (who doesn’t allow its users to buy a Bitcoin ETF). You can download the Fidelity app and the process of switching over takes about 10 minutes and everything is done for you. You will have your funds switched and vanguard account closed quickly. The transfer of my funds took 3 business days and my Vanguard account was closed a week later. I seriously spend 10 minutes clicking a few buttons and they did everything for me. Fidelity rocks.

Zombie4141

You prepaid your taxes for your Roth IRA and you want to take it out early and get penalized to buy an asset that you can technically already buy in your Roth IRA? Dude think about this… If you buy the bitcoin ETF in your Roth IRA: 1. It’s SIPC insured up to $500k(worry free from hackers, most scammers, passphrase, seed phrase, all the complicated crap you have to do for security. You’ve read the posts from all the people losing their life savings. Being your own bank is not worth it to everyone.) 2. You can withdraw it all at the age of 59.5 without any taxes or capital gains. 3. You can trade it back and forth as much as you want without any taxable event or capital gains. If you sell your Roth to buy bitcoin on an exchange. 1) you’re going to lose not only the taxes you already paid on your investment, but you will be penalized to withdraw early (assuming you’re under 59.5 YO), then you’re going to pay a fee when purchasing on an exchange, then a fee to send it to your HW wallet, then pay capital gains when you decide to sell or trade. 2) being your own bank is a relief. In America your government has the right to seize all of your assets, in a time of economic hardship. Controlling your own keys and hiding them is a way to maintain your property. You can’t hide your house, car, stocks, safe deposit box contents, etc. 3) you have property that you can transport across borders without being found or stopped by anyone.

Quick_Humor_9023

But you actually do own the stocks. With ETFs it depends on the ETF if it owns the things whose price it follows or if the ETF is synthetic. Better analogue would be ’paper gold’ vs gold bars in YOUR possession. There is more paper gold in the world than actual gold available.

PocketMonsterParcels

Personally not worth it to me. I think the better way if needed would be to use margin and buy a BTC ETF. My bitcoin in my hardware wallet is never going to be under the control of someone else or a “smart” contract. 

vt240

Bitcoin on exchange, on ETF, in MSTR, is still an inflation hedge. But you're right, not a systemic hedge.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Crypto analyst Michaël van de Poppe predicts Bitcoin is 'very, very likely' to reach $250,000 or higher, driven by ETF inflows and historical patterns. He notes Bitcoin's current consolidation around $100,000 is influenced by ETFs, which could push valuations higher. Van de Poppe expects Bitcoin to hit $160,000-$180,000 in the next three months and potentially $250,000 or more by year's end, citing the second half of the year as typically strong for crypto markets. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

TestNet777

The only corporations buying are the failed businesses. MSTR, GME, etc all have dead legacy models and it’s a last ditch effort at being relevant. There’s a reason MSFT shot down the BTC treasury proposal. And places like Blackrock aren’t buying BTC for themselves. They buy or sell based on ETF inflows and outflows. Traditional assets like stocks are at all time highs and have tangible things backing them. BTC is barely moving despite hundreds of billions in inflows because there is nothing underneath the surface. The trend of lower gains will continue each cycle and as boredom sets in, the fireworks will kick off to see who’s left holding the bag.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Bitcoin's price has surged 118% since September 2024, reaching over $109,000 by July 2025. This growth is driven by consistent outflows from exchanges, totaling $920 million over five weeks, indicating a shift to private wallets for long-term storage. Rising transaction fees and active trading in the Bitcoin ETF market, with a total market cap of $138.35 billion, further reflect increased investor engagement. Reduced sell pressure and historical patterns of outflows align with significant price rallies, supporting Bitcoin's upward momentum. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

MrYoshinobu

Everything you said is true, except with one caveat...Bitcoin is ONLY a hedge if you self custody your Bitcoin in your own cold wallet. It is NOT a hedge if you leave it on an exchange, purchase a Bitcoin ETF, or keep your coins in a hot wallet because then someone can fuck with your stack and even take your coins away from you. So don't be stupid! Only buy Bitcoin, transfer it to a cold wallet, and HODL!!!

Inevitable-Waltz-889

I did this when GBTC was trading at a huge discount.  Basically got a 40% gain just off the ETF conversion.

PreviousAvocado9967

Warren Buffet has never changed his mind about Bitcoin. He made me a multimillionaire and allowed me to retire 16 years early. I bought a small amount of Bitcoin through the BlackRock ETF as a hedge against Buffet's view. But he's been right for 72 consecutive years including correctly calling the dot com bust 2 years beforehand. At the end of the day Bitcoin throughput will be impracticaly slow (7 transactions per second) to ever replace cash. It's a very speculative alternative asset class with a host of problems. I'm not telling you to sell your whole stake but no single assets class should ever be your whole stake.

kpooo7

When I realized the big chunk of my 401 that was in bonds was netting me less than 1% in 2021. My epiphany was the stock/bond ratios of the past were dead, and BTC (in ETF) was the future.

Heyhayheigh

If you’re going to make good money, just find a trustworthy pro. Someone in your community. Reco from friends and family. Nothing wrong with selling and running some crypto in Roth via ETF’s if you want the exposure. But the way you talk, you likely don’t have interest in investing. Why spend energy on it, outsource it. Make a good friend. Best of luck.

Rainmon55

Bitcoin Treasury companies like MedicPlanet and Strategy are cons. For example take one share of metaplanet divided up into Bitcoin price and your share is only worth about .3 Bitcoin at the most when you could be buying a Bitcoin ETF or regular Bitcoin and making the full profits of the asset increasing versus this hype con game the Treasury companies are playing see this video: https://youtu.be/J2UZqQT71G8?si=tSk4UFnxcxm5Hz15

Recent-Singer8146

What about DCA method using a BTC-linked ETF? Yes, ETF expense ratio is painful, however holding BTC directly can be complex (I’ve heard & understand the criticism/phrase of “if you don’t hold it, you don’t own it”).

desmond_koh

No it's not. And ETF isn't sufficiently liquid. You need something akin to a Bitcoin bank account with a debit card.

ben2885

Yes. In my finance dept at a large consumer mnc, most have no clue about investments. They only strive for W2 income. The more savvy ones will do some ETF. No one is in Bitcoin. I have spoken to my ex classmates and peers in other industries and the feeling is the same.

Regret-Select

I wouldn't ever own Solana ETF. Phantom proved the memecoins aren't funny, and it's just meant for scams. Network isn't even good, it slowed down and stopped when too many people used it. It's just another "coin" with no real use

omg_its_dan

Disagree, if someone can’t manage self custody an ETF is the best option for long term holding.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The REX-Osprey + Staking ETF (SSK), the first U.S. crypto staking ETF, debuted with $12 million in inflows and $33 million in trading volume on its first day. The ETF focuses on Solana, with 80% of its assets in direct Solana holdings, over half of which are staked to earn blockchain rewards, offering annual yields of 7%-7.3%. Structured as a C-corporation, it bypasses regulatory hurdles, with Anchorage Digital as custodian and staking provider. Its success may indicate growing institutional interest in spot Solana ETFs. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

btc4life45

It's called an ETF

Rude_Adeptness_8772

This is why ETF’s are so important for mass market reach

Chocolate_Beast69

Exactly this! Everyone talks about adoption but keeps waiting for some ETF or bull run to magically make it happen. Meanwhile, Nexo's one of the only platforms actually building toward that future. Multiple awards for their card, real-world partnerships, and now they're sponsoring the DP World Tour - not your usual crypto crowd, but the kind of place where old money casually talks about buying the next private jet or 18-bedroom villa for their spring retreat. It feels like they're not just catering to degens or traders - they're trying to make crypto usable for people who already have wealth and want to operate in the real world without off-ramping every five seconds. The fact that you can borrow, spend, and stay fully in crypto - that's the real unlock.

NoHeight6641

Why not just buy a bitcoin ETF?

comp21

Why would you close the Roth?? You WANT lottery tickets in tax advantaged accounts. Why pay taxes on the largest part of your growth portfolio? Buy FBTC or another BTC ETF

Aramirr

Buy a gold ETF

Lephturn

Sorry you are struggling. As someone with MS I need to consider these things too. No matter your solution you need to do two things: #1 get with an estate lawyer and set up a proper power of attorney #2 document everything You'll need to set up some secure way to manage passwords and pass those on to someone you trust. In terms of BTC self custody vs. ETFs, unless someone you completely trust is knowledgeable and experienced with Bitcoin self custody, I would go the ETF route. Choose a brokerage that has good end of life features/services and work with them to document the process in the case that you are incapacitated (power of attorney kicks in with the person you trust) and share the information with the person with power of attorney. If your condition is progressing over time you may wish to examine your investment allocation. Bitcoin is a long term investment, so depending on what your needs may be and your projected lifespan you may want to adjust what % of your savings is in Bitcoin. You may need health care, long term care, assisted living, etc. and you want to make sure you have enough in short term, liquid, close to cash investments to cover any needs you may have at least for the short term until you or someone you trust with power of attorney can liquidate longer term investments as needed to pay for the things you may need.

ffloyd67

Second the Unchained rec. I’ve done it, transfer it to unchained IRA that is held by Fortis bank- create a vault where you hold 2 keys and Unchained has one. Purchase bitcoin and let it sit. You have custody and unchained can’t do anything with it. They are good backup with multisig config. Get tax benefits of IRA long term except you own the bitcoin instead of ETF.

Smooth_Pianist485

Cool. Can I ask why you prefer the ETF when you are clearly capable of holding the asset itself?

oneothergamer

Hold the Roth and invest in Bitcoin ETF

DA2710

That’s not what I’m saying. The ETF options are paper, cash in cash out. But they do impact the price. Leaps can be rolled forever, never settled or settled in cash yet in theory they represent obligations to shares of the ETF which if bought equal bitcoin bought

Knerd5

OG’s are cashing out massive amounts of coins. Up until the ETF’s and microstratagy there wasn’t the liquidity to do so without massive slippage.

dpd11

Does your ira allow Bitcoin ETF? Put it in IBIT or FBTC. Easy btc exposure in your tax advantage account that’s what I do

Recent-Revenue-4997

I’d keep it in the Roth and buy a Bitcoin ETF like FBTC or BTC

Okra_Silent

Short answer? Probably not yet. But the heat is on. Let’s break it down — honestly and without hopium: --- 🔥 Warning Signs for Altcoins (Alt Holders Might Be Getting Cooked) 1. Bitcoin Dominance Rising When BTC dominance rises (especially above 55–60%), it usually drains liquidity from altcoins. Smart money rotates from alts to BTC in uncertain times. 2. Lack of Retail Mania We’re not seeing full-blown retail euphoria in alts yet — no mass FOMO, no Coinbase trending madness. If Bitcoin is at or near ATH and alts still haven't exploded, it's a bad sign. 3. ETH Struggling Ethereum (the altcoin leader) is underperforming vs BTC. That usually spells doom for smaller alts. If ETH/BTC is bleeding, it's rarely a good time for anything else. 4. Narrative Fatigue AI, RWA, DePIN, etc. — great buzzwords, but they're not attracting sticky capital. Alt narratives aren’t converting into sustained price action. It’s all rotations and pumps/dumps. 5. BTC ETF Inflows, Not Alt ETFs Institutions are buying Bitcoin. Not your favorite microcap. Until ETH ETF inflows start moving the needle, alts are on the sidelines. --- 🧊 Why You Might Not Be Cooked Yet 1. Alt Season Lags BTC Historically, altcoins run after Bitcoin cools down. If BTC finishes its parabolic move soon, there could still be a final altcoin rotation. 2. Some Sectors Still Show Strength A few strong narratives (like Solana ecosystem plays, restaking, AI infra) are doing OK. If you’re in the right sub-sector, you might still catch a wave. 3. Macro Isn’t Dead Yet If Fed pivots or rate cuts hit in Q3–Q4 2025, risk-on assets (including alts) may see another push. --- 🎯 What to Do Now (If You’re Holding Alts) Audit your bags: Ask honestly — are these alts backed by real adoption, or are they just bags? Rotate into strength: Consider moving into majors (BTC, ETH, SOL) or at least strong narratives. Be ready to exit: If BTC peaks and dominance surges, alts might not follow. Have exit plans. Stop loss or hold conviction: If you're deep underwater, either have long-term conviction or don’t let it bleed out forever. --- Want to share what alts you’re holding? I can help you evaluate if they’re toast, or if they still have juice.

Intrepid-Gas7872

I don’t believe bitcoin will ever be as stable as gold because of gold ETF’s. Theres 250-300 gold ETF’s for every 1oz of real gold. Bitcoin, unlike gold, is inelastic and vastly more scarce. You can buy gold today that hasn’t been mined yet. Thankfully you cannot do this with ₿itcoin

DA2710

The ETF’s will eventually sell more paper than exists in the form of leaps and the supply cap will be destroyed. This is guaranteed to happen

Laukess

that, or in 20 years, 95% of all coins are held by companies and ETF's because it's easier. Maybe some of the coins that are used for transactions are held by banks, because it's easier and transaction can be done for free between banks. Even if bitcoin becomes the dominant currency, most of the coins could be custodies by 3rd parties. At this point the government rugs you, it's now illegal to self custody, and they now have full control. Bitcoin has been captured. Lets say they want to increase the supply. They don't actually have to change the code, they just make paper bitcoin. Because everything is done off chain, you don't actually know what you are holding. The transition would be slow, and a lot of the people who don't actually understand why bitcoin has value won't fight it, because the NGU technology will be in full swing as it's being captured. It'll be too late when people realize what happened. Anyway, this isn't a flaw in bitcoin, and there are no better alternatives, so we just have to encourage people to hold their own keys, and build tools to make it easier.

Desperate-Low5201

Your last question doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  ETFs have a fiduciary responsibility and any idea that BlackRock owns all this Bitcoin is ridiculous.  It's basically a peg one to one for the price of Bitcoin with a minimal fee for YOUR ownership.. I think a better way to make that question ring true is to just talk about paper Bitcoin and derivatives and leverage.  ETFs can't do that.  Of course you could say that people that choose options and trade on margin and leverage the ETF itself would be the same difference... There's no rehypothecation of your ETF shares or anything like that other than what individuals care to do and certainly not done by Black Rock and other ETF managers. My answer to this idea would be to be a longer holder and not worry about the increased volatility due to this paper trading of Bitcoin.  Just enjoy the show but we certainly are seeing lengthening cycles and far less volatility... There is much talk about the halving cycle becoming moot and less obvious... Also, any worry about leverage and and shorts and longs and the are becoming increasingly less threatening due to deeper liquidity pools and a market cap that eventually won't be manipulated by any group of investors or governments... Not sure what that threshold tipping point figure is...

Laukess

Capture. I don't think any of the things you mention particularly concerning. I think bitcoin becoming a bigger part of the traditional financial system is a good thing, and I'm happy we finally have ETF's, but that is also the path towards capture. It's becoming more and more important for people to hold their coins in self custody.

BullishCohiba

We are still early. As you mention institutions are buying and the BlackRock ETF inflows are not stopping even till this day. We are super early and things just started to become hot

Puzzman

Technically an ETF - although they would be wanting 2 billion of inflows at the same time..

Extaz

Crypto ETF ala BlackRock or index etfs?

Aggravating_Dog5220

Keep saving up Bitcoin. Since you're in Canada you can also put it in your TFSA or FHSA too as ETF.

2LostFlamingos

You can buy bitcoin ETF in your Roth too

Darkpriest667

Stop looking at these stupid trading graphs with triangles and cones and all that crap that is used for standard stocks, bonds, currencies, and other things devalued by fiat printing. || || |Total|2,041,017.78|| That number is the only one that matters. That's how much is available right now for sale. That seems like a lot, until you realize that also includes the idiots who have left THEIR BTC on exchanges as well, this includes several ETF groups that are either really stupid or trying to manipulate the price down so they can buy more. Once that number approaches 0 then the fiat value against BTC will skyrocket. In the end, who really gives a crap about the fiat value, you keep stacking sats and when the time comes you take loans against what you have.

Acrobatic-Soup-8862

It’s not just ETF’s - there are now leveraged ETFs and options on those ETFs. The goal of trading alts was always to outperform bitcoin. Why take the risk of a divergence in correlation when you can achieve the same alt-like moves using leveraged products related to btc itself, with less if any of the correlation risk?

wsb_moonshot

How does this differ from holding a stock ETF, or do you avoid these as well?

ResponsibilitySea327

Of course they have operating fees. It is on the label. IBIT charges 0.25% per annum (some are as low as 0.15%). But your fees to purchase or sell 1 BTC worth of IBIT is zero. CEX/DEX spreads and fees are much more than that and come off the top further reducing your gains. Depending on the exchange, it may take you several years of hodling to beat the annual ETF fees. Plus you can't write calls against it to boost your earnings. Sure you can do F2F or peer-to-peer trading to bring your fees to essentially zero, but the risk of loss is very high.

Secret_Operative

ETF is easy in tax sheltered accounts where it's extremely difficult to own and store your own Bitcoin. Be realistic.

DankShibe

Alls will run in christmas fueled by a wave of ETF approvals and rate cuts.

Sinistarr_1

Bitcoin is not gonna behave like an alt in its in a class by itself. These ETF’s and worldwide demand changes the game. Nobody knows what’s going to happen but I don’t think previous trends apply here

Efficient_Culture569

You can clearly see that there are two branches of Bitcoiners: 1. People that want a better system. They are happy to benefit from early buying, but mainly want to see the system change. People in this category advocate for self custody, run nodes and try and understand Bitcoin as Money and technology. 2. The people that realised they can get rich in their currency by buying Bitcoin and selling in the future. Once they get rich enough, they probably don't care about Bitcoin's future. These tend to be the ETF only holders or any other paper Bitcoin. See Self custody as inconvenient. There are subgroups within these but just simplified to keep it simple. The good thing is that Bitcoin is free for everyone regardless of their beliefs.

Born-Guava-5352

I did this in early 2023. Bought two btc at about $29k each with a personal loan. Sold when it broke $100k in December of 2024. The interest was annoying and the whole thing was stressful. Watching BTC dip to $25k over that summer sucked. It was still an enormous financial win. I set aside $$ to make the loan payment from the loan itself. Took out $100k total. But I also saw other factors on horizon like ETF pending approval that I thought would spike price. I honestly wouldn’t do it right now. I think we probably hit $180k or so before heading back down massively. 🤷‍♂️I netted $85k after taxes.

Sounders12

Retail is here through the ETF. Do you think BlackRock and Fidelity buy BTC for themselves?

Abutufriday71

🚀With ETF flows returning, halving hype still strong, and institutional FOMO creeping in, July could be the ignition point. We might see BTC test new 🆕 local highs or even break out if macro conditions stay chill.

siasl_kopika

\> DCA every month. And leverage buy BTC on a loan without any possibility of liquidation pretty much that, youve got it. * DCA from income, however much you save beyond expenses * lump sum purchase into self-custodial btc from any fiat assets you have * convert cash/bonds/CDs treasuries asap * sell all stocks/etfs/etc asap * liquidate/early withdraw any 401ks, IRA's, and Roth's * do not carry any custodial assets, not even bitcoin ETF's * Extract safe fiat debt as frequently as possible * since fiat assets are bad, conversely fiat debt is good. (this is counter intuitive to many people who dont understand how fiat works) * never use leverage or debt with margin calls; this is like gambling in a rigged mob casino * only take personal loans well within your income bounds * never accept variable interest rates, and dont accept high fixed rates either * prefer bankruptcy immune collateral when possible, such as homesteads, business assets * worst case you dont want a default on debt to affect your personal life or wealth. They printed the fiat up for free, so always ensure you can default on it for free too * Ideal examples: * home equity refinance, HELOC, especially in homestead states * credit card balance transfers with 0% interest * business loans you are shielded from, such as c-corp * small personal loans with low interest and fixed terms Once you shed the golden handcuffs and gilded manacles of the fiat world, you can very quickly achieve financial independence and early retirement with bitcoin as a sound money system. And if you can leverage fiat debt, its much faster, by harnessing the same power to steal that the bankers use to enrich themselves: the power of money printing.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The U.S. SEC has paused Grayscale's application to list its diversified crypto fund, the Grayscale Digital Large Cap Fund (GDLC), as a spot ETF on NYSE Arca. Initially approved, the SEC intervened within 24 hours, citing the need for further examination. The GDLC fund offers exposure to major cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum but includes altcoins such as Solana and XRP, complicating regulatory approval. This pause highlights challenges in approving diversified crypto ETFs and could impact market sentiment and institutional adoption of altcoins. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Markd0ne

Thanks for clarifying. Now I remembered that in some countries there is huge tax for crypto gains and ETF is much more viable in such cases.

BsdFish8

> Tell me specifically when a user goes to make a transaction on Litecoin and Solana, what things will they notice? And how would they actually notice them? At least in my experience, no matter what type of transaction you make, you'll notice the speed and the cost. How is a user going to notice the things you think matter? When the payment system goes down or the payment processors (nodes) are censoring transactions from their wallet, their IP, or their regional network in particular, they are going to notice. Just the risk of this happening is what motivated people to use Bitcoin in its oldest and most primitive implementations. Credit cards and traditional banks have been handling near-instant transactions for decades. 2008 was the year when problems with security and reliability in traditional banking made the idea of blockchain payments *attractive.* Nobody needs a public ledger for speed - it's just nice to have compared to Bitcoin's blocktimes that can exceed 10 minutes. > If it was a real narrative, you wouldn't need people to validate it for you, it would come about naturally. Also, you need to stop treating VCs as anything other than early stage investors. This sub seems to think VC is a code word for some type of inherently nefarious group, rather than just a group of connected investors who have a lot of funds to employ... Having lots of money and betting on an early investment payoff does not automatically make one a benevolent influence on the product of that investment. Developers make compromises to the security, flexibility and usability of their apps and tools all the time for VC funding. The reputation that VCs have is directly informed by all of the terrible outcomes that have resulted alongside the successes. The early hiccups and downtime, alone, are the narrative (launch and ship before things actually work) that Solana is fighting against as a result. > You also haven't been able to quantify how a user would have any indication of which networks had a fair distribution, while it's extremely easy to quantify how a user would have immediate indication of what network is cheaper or faster. Wallets on a public ledger are not a secret. Transactions can be analyzed to quantify exactly how widely value is distributed across wallets in addition to how many wallets are active - unless the protocol provides tools to hide this information. We may not know who specifically owns each wallet, but we can absolutely establish when large sums of value are moving on the network and when they are dormant. > ok? My point was just that price movement, although an imperfect measure, is often an indicator of fundamentals and also future expectations. There are no fundamentals in a payment system outside of security and reliability. Fast transactions that fail to satisfy the fundamental requirements are unlikely to be sustainable. Most crypto projects are fly-by-night scams but the ones with multi-million dollar VC backing are not inherently more reliable, more secure, or more likely to be "number go up" candidates even when they have a huge marketing budget. > Because it seems like you have trouble identifying what is and isn't getting traction from more direct indicators, so instead of being confident in an inherently limited view thinking "Am I wrong? No it's the market who is wrong!" you might have a bit of reflection. Institutional traction is almost completely focused on Bitcoin right now. They understand that security and reliability are fundamental even if you don't believe me. Grayscale is just starting an ETF with a basket of other tokens, including SOL, but retail crypto is a seller's market full of rubes buying meme tokens that are mostly garbage and that are likely to be functionally worthless by the next Bitcoin halving. > this is why I'm bearish on Litecoin, it hasn't proven a good path towards self-sustainability. And obviously Litecoin also subsidizes block production as well to provide a better chance at long term sustainability. Bearish means "number go down" but it doesn't mean "network stops working." Litecoin miners collect fees and emissions, that's true, but there is no subsidy from a treasury account to incentivize participation. Litecoin has been going for 13 years and [shows no sign of stopping](https://www.coinwarz.com/mining/litecoin/hashrate-chart). The investment in hardware to increase hashrate is a real, tangible reflection of confidence in the chain's sustainability. > Seems like growth is going fine for them, but what is Litecoin's plan for growth? Growth is a narrative chasing the "number go up" prime directive. Litecoin has been growing organically and without external sponsors, exactly as the hashrate chart proves. No special plan had to be invented for the purposes of dumping overpriced junk on retail before the regulators catch up. > How do they increase that number when people seemingly don't value the things that you think are so important? You're suggesting the current people using the blockchain to securely and reliably transfer value don't think it is important because the speculative price isn't increasing to your satisfaction. Deflation is *likely* to increase the exchange value of LTC over time (and the price chart supports this outside of price spikes) but that is not the narrative that sustains usage. I'm not sure why you think it should be. > I just see it as a blockchain that can facilitate enough transactions to sustain the network while keeping individual fees low. I see it as better for certain purposes, but they really only compete in the sense that both of them are head and shoulders above everyone else when it comes to the activity of their respective ecosystems. We have different views of whether this is an unmitigated benefit or a tradeoff, then. I think Bitcoin is not just a SoV because it is secure and reliable - when markets panic, liquidity does not adjust to demand. Any price discovery to new levels will enforce slow and deliberate choices that determine winners and losers in 10 minute increments and that prioritize those who adjust their transaction fees to jump the queue. When transaction volume is practically unlimited, as it is on Wall Street, panics tend to lead to temporary pauses and shutdowns that violate the notion of reliable value transfer. Again, this is retelling the story of 2008 and why blockchain technology became significant in the first place. > So I'm really not sure what you're insinuating here. Considering the supply is 99.99% unlocked I'm not sure what "bagholders who have been trained to watch and wait for their exit signal." is in reference too. Do you somehow think Solana is more vulnerable... to people selling coins? When the big wallets head for the exits, the little wallets will follow with haste. If SOL breaches 250 USD again, there is certainly a possibility that "number go up" will continue, but the holding pattern of most altcoins is to degrade in value faster than inflation with occasional spikes. Ergo, we must time to market and take profits when the getting is good. > I'm a long term holder and every investment inherently requires timing the market to some degree, you have to enter and you have to exit and that is the only timing my long term narrative requires, just like literally any other type of buy and hold investment. Long term investing says "time in the market beats timing the market." If the capabilities of the blockchain are not changing significantly and the currency is inflationary, time in the market just describes who is left holding the bag. Centralized blockchains with foundations that have the power to change emissions and mint more tokens, just like the Fed prints money, are unlikely to sustain a "number go up" narrative like Bitcoin. I do not consider myself a long term investor in Solana, but by all means continue to pump those bags for me. In a couple of years, I might even change my mind.

Budo00

No. I have an old 401k (actually it is a 403b) And according to Fidelity, i cannot straight up convert it over to an ETF. I’d have to sell it, pay the penalty, taxes & then be in a higher earn tax bracket at the end of the year. By borrowing the money, I am not held to any fees. Of course other than repayment with interest. The interest is not paid to Fidelity’s pocket but rather paid back to that account. (Me) The other option I am currently exploring is taking the remainder of my 401(k) and rolling it over to a bitcoin IRA by using Unchained. Unchained has a set up where you use multisig and you hold custody of your bitcoin. You buy 2 cold wallets. Then set them both up & create a “vault” on Unchained website. Then you roll over your old 401k to a bitcoin IRA. This is $250 a year for this service. Or you can pay them $1000 for them to hold your hand and step by step show you how to set it all up & they provide you 2 trezor cold wallets. The advantage to loans or roll over 401k are avoiding the penalty and tax hits. In my case, I borrowed 1/3rd of my 401k now I have 2/3rds left just sitting there like a melting ice cube in my former company’s plan. I did not know you could roll over your 401k to a bitcoin IRA where you hold custody in a cold wallet or I would have just done this roll over straight out. Now, I am “stuck” making monthly payments. But I did nearly “double” my investment so far. I thought that once I own a certain amount of bitcoin, I would stop buying it but now I realize that it is never enough for me. I am conflicted. I was always in the camp of paying off all loans and credit cards ASAP. Now I am not following that plan by buying bitcoin every month. I am not making large home loan payments to pay down my mortgage or that previously mentioned loan on my 401k. Maybe once I set up this bitcoin IRA, I should stop buying bitcoin & just pay off that loan faster & covert it over to same bitcoin IRA, too? Obviously, don’t take anything I am yammering about as financial advice since I am just a guy on a laptop trying to figure things out on my own from watching youtube videos

Blindeafmuten

In today’s economic landscape, the prevailing emotion isn’t excitement—it’s quiet fear. A strange stoicism has taken hold across much of the investing public. People aren’t rushing to buy homes, build families, or expand lifestyles. Instead, they are downsizing, delaying, divesting. Ownership feels like liability. Good times feel like a sin. The future feels vague. So instead, they stash. They hoard. There’s this term that gets repeated like a mantra: *“Time in the market beats timing the market.”* It’s recited as a shield against chaos. The market, we say, always goes up in the long run. It has become a kind of ritualized financial stoicism. In an age where political institutions are distrusted and the future feels unplannable, the passive ETF or Bitcoin has become the anchor. This is automated hope. People are buying stocks or Bitcoin because they’re scared not to. They’ve seen governments print money, erode the value of savings, and scramble to manage crises. Real estate feels unattainable, entrepreneurship too risky, consumption vaguely immoral. But the market—the S&P 500, the Nasdaq—offers a promise: *Stay in long enough, and you will be okay!* In a way, markets have become a refuge from society itself. The logic is mechanical: buy the dip, dollar-cost average, diversify. But the psychology is deeper: *what else is there? Is there anything else, really?* This strange bull market isn’t being fueled by greed. It’s being held up by faith and fear. Faith that the old rules still apply, and fear that if they don’t, there’s no backup plan. It’s not driven by irrational enthousiasm but by rational despair, What will happen when this illusion breaks? What if long-term returns don’t materialize, or inflation eats away the real gains, or geopolitical instability redefines risk altogether? Does any of us belive in the strength of his body and mind? Can we still say: I'm young and strong! As long as I'm healthy I'll find a way! I don't think so. For now, the market marches. Not because people believe in themselves, not because they believe in the goverments, but because they don’t know what else to believe in. If the market fails (it is our last resort) what the fuck are we supposed to do?

now_hear_me_out

Was this before the BTC ETF’s were a thing?

stories_from_tejas

It is 100% about price to me, I don’t even spend it. I just usually collect it in ETF form at this point. If the government wants to seize your cryptocurrency, someday, there ain’t nothing you can do about it. If an EMP hits your crypto gone anyways. In the event of the failure of the dollar or the euro, it will make no difference how much cryptocurrency you have. Make a mistake the government controls the Internet, if they don’t want you to trade crypto you don’t have a signal to trade with. In the event of some kind of dystopian future, no one’s gonna give a shit that you have a USB drive to trade for water and food. You probably won’t even be able to get international travel access to get to your safe deposit box in the Cayman Islands with your key. I’m just trying to profit on the price of bitcoin speculation.

Coininator

Just add the 600k BTC held by ETF (which are like an exchange) and the value stayed flat…

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Litecoin (LTC) has dipped below $90, but technical and on-chain indicators suggest a potential bullish reversal. The 90-day Spot Cumulative Volume Delta (CVD) has turned positive, indicating buy-side dominance. Optimism around a potential Litecoin ETF approval by October 2, with a 95% probability according to Bloomberg, could further boost sentiment. Historically weak months like August and September are often followed by strong recoveries, with November being particularly profitable. Technical setups and institutional interest may signal a strategic accumulation opportunity. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Standard Chartered predicts Bitcoin could experience its 'best ever' second half of the year, driven by strong institutional interest, treasury buying, and ETF support. Analyst Geoff Kendrick expects Bitcoin to surpass its previous high of $111,814, despite potential price volatility in late Q3 and early Q4. Bitcoin treasury companies and ETFs, absent in prior halving cycles, are now significant contributors. Bitcoin recently traded at $109,459, with ETFs like BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust growing rapidly, managing over $70 billion in assets. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

___run

No one. There are multiple ETFs for Bitcoin. No one stops another company to start another ETF. Similarly, there can be multiple different tokens for the same stock.

TheRadishBros

More BTC was bought by people holding the Blackrock ETF alone than was mined that day.

Beautiful-Top-1204

Firstly, make sure the loan is on a fixed interest rate over the period of repayment. Don’t get screwed over with a variable rate which ends up making you broke by ever increasing monthly payments. As long as you can afford the monthly payments for the duration of the period (consider if you lose your job, require home or car repairs etc) can you still afford the loan regardless of unexpected costs? I’d recommend putting money aside monthly of your own fiat as an ‘emergency home/car fund’ to cover that. Then as long as you can afford the loan repayment you’ll be okay. Waiting a year to ‘buy the dip’ could be a good idea, but that’s a wishful thinking moment. Based on ETF interest and Blackrock/big companies buying it all up, plus countries creating their own strategic reserves, we could see higher highs soon. I’d say to get it whilst you can ONLY if you can afford those repayments. Don’t over leverage yourself on taking out the full loan if you’ve got doubt of repaying the monthly payments. Nobody wants to see you become bankrupt from over leveraging as then you’ll have to sell the Bitcoin and then it was all for nothing. An important thing to consider is if you have diamond hands, can you hold the Bitcoin even if it dipped 60% as we can see pullbacks based on historical data, plus nothing goes up forever on the short term. Bitcoin does increase in the long term and it’s a great investment, as long as you don’t bankrupt yourself in the short term on a personal loan. Taking calculated risks is great and the whole economy is built off of debt, however big companies can take out another loan to pay off an old debt… It’s more difficult to do this as an individual and you have a lot more to lose. Good luck, don’t over leverage yourself but either way I hope it works out for you.

Romanizer

True, it does not necessarily have to start from Zero and surely needs to define what we see. Especially with the ETFs coming up, it would make sense to separate by Retail and ETF holdings on exchange. It makes out the change of a total of 3.5 pp over years appear to huge when in fact it may be a simple fluctuation, IMO. In the end, we do not know what this is trying to say as there is no obvious correlation with price.

Amddiffynnydd

It’s understandable to be sceptical, especially after the prolonged bear market and how hard altcoins like AVAX have been hit. Reclaiming $100 won’t be easy. It would require a strong bull market, renewed developer interest, and clear growth in use cases (especially in subnets and enterprise adoption). That said, crypto tends to move in cycles. Many wrote off ETH after 2018, and look where it went. If AVAX can remain relevant, continue innovating, and ride the next wave of L1/L2 narrative, it could retest its previous highs. But it's no guarantee. A lot depends on market sentiment and whether Avalanche can differentiate itself long-term. I feel it is still "possible" but not without serious catalysts and a broader market turnaround, as prominent asset managers like Grayscale and VanEck have each filed S-1 registrations with the SEC to launch a spot AVAX ETF. VanEck filed earlier this spring, and Nasdaq/Grayscale followed suit.......

Dapper-Raspberry-860

Also worth watching: Coindepo (CDP). If Solana staking ETF is this popular, early-stage DeFi platforms offering yield and banking utilities like Coindepo could see a major spotlight next.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The REX-Osprey Solana Staking ETF, the first Solana staking exchange-traded fund in the U.S., debuted on the Cboe BZX Exchange with $12 million in inflows and $33 million in trading volume on its first day. Trading under the ticker SSK, the ETF provides exposure to spot Solana (SOL) and staking yields. Analysts view the launch as a significant step for crypto staking ETFs, with expectations for more crypto ETFs, including spot Solana ETFs, to gain approval by the end of the year. Institutional interest in Solana is also rising, as reflected in CME futures demand. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

420osrs

"You can’t use bitcoin to buy you any happiness until you sell it?" Yeah, I don't know, man. I keep half my stack in the ETF and I can get a margin loan right now on it. Not sell a single share.

DreamingTooLong

Bitcoin ETF reserves are sitting on a hardware wallet somewhere. They are industry standard.

pickleBoy2021

A lot of highs were last cycle when there was more money in the system and people were gambling like crazy. Covid. Stimulus. 3AC and Celsius blew up. Celsius was a service. 3AC was a prop firm but they were all lending to each other and buying. Leverage. Also have to factor a lot of these coins pumped on the promise and this money. Go to coin gekko a lot of these coins are still not fully vested. Link treasury and team still have some absurd amount of coins. They are beyond wealthy and employed. Dream. No need for the coins to pump high because they are always selling. Avax was part of the 3Ac meme. Solunaxax. Solana, Luna, and avalanche. Luna killed some People. Avax is doing well and has a solid team it’s just the coins not moving. The volume is not there, and left post election. It’s been off for awhile but look at Coinbase and they show you it’s all over the board. Very PVP. The money is different. With ETF’s the new money doesn’t need to get involved in the ecosystem and culture. You are buying it for an institution or you are just allocating. So BTC as a driver changed. Also you also had 2 chains. BTC and the EVM’s. Solana was still new. The White House doesn’t mean anything. This is still a global asset. Asia used to pump while you slept. Then Europe then US. That vibe doesn’t even feel there. Get out your head that there is someone controlling prices. Do you think all the billionaires like each other? No they compete. Think in the beginning there was just BTC. People built business and jobs and industry. There are balance sheets in BTC. Now you have options markets. You have stables. Lots of coins and dollars. Remember people who used to start exchanges used to own a lot of BTC. This world is getting smaller but it a weird mix going mainstream. Now throw in gamblers and all sorts of games and you have a market. People sell options and get blown up. Think about it. How much BTC is actually really bought and sold. It’s not that much in comparison to equities. I would go deeper. Like the stock market has witching days for options expirations BTC market is almost the size of the rest of crypto. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s a market.

PopTheRedPill

Yeah. I assume it’s a loss leader business model. Fidelity literally has a zero fee large cap fund now so every ETF in existence makes more.

Dark_Raiden_

It pumped on ETF news

Amber_Sam

>Those who are wealthy have the ability to move their bitcoin overseas to another country which still accept bitcoin. But what about poorer people with most of their net worth in bitcoin? They aren't as mobile and are therefore not free from economic repression. Bitcoin doesn't need to be "moved" to another country if you want to exchange it even in the case of 6102. As you mentioned, p2p within the country. This would grow and make Bitcoin even more resilient. What would also grow would be the number of small private miners, looking to earn some sat because it's easier than buying. This would make the network even more decentralized. And the "poorer people with most of their net worth in bitcoin" will be looking to buy goods or services directly in bitcoin, possibly using r/thelightningnetwork where it's next to impossible linking the payment back to the sender. The only people getting hurt by this will be the ETF investors, not HODLers.

TheGreatCryptopo

True that. I'm no accountant but guess they report whats on their books differently. These companies holding BTC would be holding as an asset/reserve. ETF companies as ?

MichaelAischmann

I assume the ETF companies are not on here because they hold their BTC on behalf of the customers? Or because they too use institutional grad custodians such as CB?

Cold-Operation-4974

Black Rock doesn't have their own keys.  Fidelity does.  and heres the kicker.  Black Rock and Fidelity are part of Wall Street elites.  they get bailed out JPMorgan got bailed out Goldman Sachs got bailed out Morgan Stanley got bailed out Citigroup got bailed out Bank of America got bailed out... etc meaning... The US government will print money or tax the taxpayer and make sure that these rich corporations don't lose.  if something happened to Black Rock's Bitcoin... Uncle Sam will print out however many hundreds of billions of dollars I need so Black Rock can go get more Bitcoin.  if something happened to Joe the plumbers Bitcoin he has to go fix toilets because he's f***** and Uncle Sam doesnt care about the average joe this is why I keep my Bitcoin in an ETF managed by a TOO BIG TO FAIL FINANCIAL INSTITUTION

BranJacobs

"This time is different" could mean a lot of things but it's always in the bullish case. "This time is different. ETF's, institutions, governments, corporate treasuries, ETC, *so I don't expect the huge 60% - 70% drawdowns from previous cycles."* "There won't be a banana zone this cycle, *we might slow climb to 250K*" For the record, I don't think this time is different. I'm planning accordingly for some down years in 2026-27.

Spunktank

I highly doubt we see that again. The ETF will gobble it up. It'll dip... but not like pre ETF.

newmes

Balance. Since you've already got a good stack, maybe buy a globally diversified stock index (in the US we have symbol: VT). Or an S&P500 ETF. Putting 100% of your net worth into one thing is so risky. I've got high conviction in BTC but also basic discipline and there i am NOT 100% in crypto.

theborderlinelive

liquidity is everything. A lot depends on institutional flows, ETF adoption, and whether retail comes back in force. Without fresh capital, big moves are tough to sustain.

Creamy_Martini

Overall, it's better to hold your own coin vs invest in the ETFs, but.... I sold all my coin and bought ETFs despite some downsides the the ETF strategy. I was just not comfortable holding a huge chunk of my net worth in self custody. I also may be in the minority on this sub, but I don't evision our society (Im in the US fwiw) using Bitcoin for every day transactions, so I view Bitcoin as a store of value rather than a currency.

CasualRedditObserver

If you've got a bunch of funds already in a Roth IRA, it's a lot faster and easier to move those funds into an ETF in the existing Roth IRA than to set up a proper Roth IRA that allows you to self custody BTC and then process a rollover. Withdrawing to just buy BTC outside the IRA is going to incur taxes and penalties and miss out on future tax-free growth. Having access to tax free funds in retirement, that aren't subject to RMD will be very useful for managing taxes and other retirement costs (for example: IRMAA)

RefrigeratorLow1259

ADA Grayscale ETF/ upcoming Midnight airdrop pushing price imo.

Alexchii

What’s the realistic danger with ETF’s? I own all sorts of ETF’s from Blackrock, Vanguard etc. and I believe them to be safe.

justignoremeplsthx

Public companies grew their balance by 18%, MicroStrategy and Saylor still buying truckloads, the ETF's are still on fire. Why is the price just sitting? I really don't think it's just because of the OTC buys- but is it?

team_ti

We can also sell covered calls against the ETF in a registered account and generate income against the ETF while Hodling

LadyBird1281

I can use my BTC ETF to buy on margin though. Yes BTC loans are becoming a thing but many require hodlers to put up their holdings as collateral anyway. I can also easily pass on my brokerage account to my spouse if I pass away. It takes a little more work and understanding with a cold wallet.

fakehalo

Honestly, if you plan to sell it makes sense to just use the ETF. I have a lot on old cold wallets and a little bit in IBIT with covered calls on it, which I plan to sell entirely at some point.

Comprehensive-Pipe27

You were better biying into n ETF..sell profit..pay back loan and their you have some bitcoin...your not very smart and its ok..do what i just said.

smartfbrankings

Holding an ETF also means if you lose your login, you don't lose access to your funds. It means someone isn't able to $5 wrench attack you either. But it also means that a government could lock your access to it, or the ETF could rug you. It's not just trusting code, it's trusting yourself.

Game_310

I have most of my BTC in cold storage, the only thing I’m worried about is the beneficiary. I tried to explain to my sister about my Ledger Nano, the 24 words etc, she doesn't want to deal with it. I'm thinking about dumping all of it and buying an ETF and not dealing with it. Upon death, the entire stack will transfer to my beneficiary. I was ‘lucky’ enough and got into BTC in 2017 and started buying heavily during the 2018 dump. I remember taking the train home after work and looking at my phone and seeing 4k BTC etc, I emptied my checking, savings. Anyways I'm getting off topic.

scwt

Could be in an IRA. I know you can do a self-directed IRA and manage your own keys, but for most people, buying the ETF is way easier.

Game_310

I have most of my BTC in cold storage, The only thing I’m worried about is the beneficiary. I tried to explain to my sister about my Ledger Nano, the 24 words etc, she's doesn't want to deal with it. I'm thinking about dumping all of it and buying an ETF and not dealing with it. Upon death, the entire stack will transfer to my beneficiary.