ETF

submarinefarm

There was a post from 2y ago where someone said 95% of their wealth is in BTC on a coldcard but they are considering converting to an ETF. I do wonder what happened.

s1ammage

IMO Bitkey is for the spouse/non-technical family/friends that supports your cause. It eliminates the barrier to entry into “self-custody” and is very new-friendly. Better than the ETF, better than holding on an exchange.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

Not your ETF shares, not your coins.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

When a plane crashes, does everyone stop flying? No. In fact, because of crash investigations, air travel is far safer today than just a few years ago. The problem isn't air travel. It's usually pilot error, mechanical fault or weather. BTC is not "broken". In fact it's much safer today than it was just 3 years ago (because of ETF's), better hard wallets and many exchanges being regulated. Please don't give up on BTC. Nothing in its value proposition has fundamentally changed. The network still runs. Transactions still process. Institutional adoption is still accelerating. It is only going to get bigger, better and more valuable.

Suspicious-Holiday42

there is no single ETF that has world stocks plus bitcoin

Zestyclose_Ad2462

If a plane crashes, would you stop flying forever? No. The cause of the crash is studied and identified. Reforms are put in place and as a result, air travel is safer today than it ever was. The safest way to travel, statistically speaking. Many had their money stolen this past week, through no fault of their own. Likewise, many people in plane crashes lose their lives. Almost always through no fault of their own. Self-custody should not be shunned entirely. A prudent person never puts all his eggs in one basket. Put some BTC in a cold wallet/self-custody, some on an exchange, some in an ETF using one custodian. Some in another ETF using a different custodian. There are a lotta people here with all their eggs in one basket. This is your chance to diversify before you too, get vaporized.

JeffthefearlessDog

putting all eggs in one basket also applies to hardware wallets if you decide to put all your life savings in BTC which is not necessarily optimal. Spreading out your bitcoin to several hardware wallets of different vendors, ETF, Exchanges and stock of BTC companies might be a good idea if your funds exceed a level you dont want to lose at once. Still, its so very sad. You\`d think you can trust a company that has trust as its whole business model.

Maximum_Natural_8915

this fund only had around $14.7M, while BlackRock’s one has over $47B. Feels less like people are done with Bitcoin and more like the smallest ETF just couldn’t compete.

Ill-Party8305

The roll dice is not intended for mass adoption, CEX and ETF is there for mass adoption.

Darkpriest667

he doesn't understand scarcity and ETF investment.

le_iub

I think that ETF inflow are people dropping cold wallets and going to ETF

recklessjewel

just buy the ETF

BigvalBROski

Use a passphrase or just buy the ETF… This is 2026 not 2016.

schmuhmuhu

Road to 1 billion HBAR ETF holdings

devCheckingIn

Three straight days of ETF inflows. 😍 Smart Money(TM) is loading their bags.

Patrick_Atsushi

It's not yet widely adapted yet. Once it reaches that stage, a standard will emerge and applications will sprout. So far most who has invested in cryptos are in forms of ETF or even products from banks.

moviemaker2

>You talk about knowing all this and that but yet you even stated you recommended Cold Card yourself lol. I did, along with lots of other people who know more about this topic than you do, and I love how you add the "lol", as if you knew beforehand about this firmware flaw rather than only hearing about Coldcards recently. >when there are multiple reposts from YEARS ago with customers talking about issues with their Cold Cards, having funds drained and one being blocked by the company itself after reaching out to their customer service. This is where you are putting your complete ignorance of this topic on full display, again. I even know what post you're referring to and the hilarious thing is that I know you didn't even read it, because it doesn't say what you and all the other morons who link to it think it says. Every single example in there is either user error, or something as yet unexplained that isn't consistent with this bug. >What wallets would you recommend to others, why is this and what security parameters do you think they should take to protect themselves from something like what happened with Cold Card or any other hypothetical scenario. My first recommendation is that Hardware wallets are not the only place you should store crypto: I advocate spreading your holdings across multiple reputable exchanges, multiple reputable hardware wallets, and even an ETF. For hardware recommendations, I have always pointed to Trezors and Jades. I've stopped recommending Coldcards as of this firmware fiasco, just like I stopped recommending Ledgers after their firmware fiasco in 2023. I primarily recommended Coldcards because of their implementation of entropy via dice rolls, and as it happens, everyone who took that advice is unaffected by this particular vulnerability. (I still fully rescend any endorsement for Coldcards though). I previously advocated that multisig wallets and passphrases were overkill measures for most people that introduced their own risks, but I'm reconsidering passphrases. (multisig is probably an appropriate measure for wallets containing more than a half million or more in crypto especially if it's intended for long term storage.)

Hitachi22

Litecoin's utility is mostly fake. Go any Litecoin explorer and look through the transactions, you'll quickly see hundreds if not thousands of transactions that go from address to address within minutes. Price action doesn't lie. If there was really demand price would reflect that. The biggest proof of no demand is how poor the spot ETF has performed. It's been out for 10 months and barely has $5 million in inflows. Easily the worst crypto ETF by a landslide. Even HBAR etf has $50 million inflows. Those are real facts and proven assets.

Aurorion

As Bitcoin itself? Almost yes. Minus expenses (you can consider this as a small fee that you pay the ETF issuer to hold Bitcoin for you).

Ok-Astronaut4952

Wether or not infesting investing in an ETF meets your definition of using crypto or not, the existence of an ETF means Bitcoin is mainstream as hell

Good_Extension_9642

And that's the reason I ONLY by BTC ETF since their inception

Drakoolya

After all these years People have huge amounts of savings in crypto is what blows my mind. Even Planb one of the biggest bitcoin bulls have moved to ETF's and away from personal holdings. Stealing crypto is easier than stealing gold from your safe these days.

yldf

Insufficient. One physical copy in one place is terrible advice, if you do that you should opt against self-custody and buy an ETF instead.

PuzzleheadedBell4057

I have the same allocation - 80% stocks (mainly broad market ETF), 20% crypto. The 20% crypto allocation contains 10 different coins with BTC and ETH accounting for half the allocation (30% and 20% respectively). I'm old fashion - I believe diversification is key to risk adjusted out-sized returns.

Legitimate_Town_5235

Not enough. The entropy was lacking, a passphrase won’t save these people. ETF is probably good for people who don’t want to hold the real thing and minimize the risk.

MrKillerKiller_

ETF’s? You mean pay middlemen and pay fees and never actually own any assets yourself?

NashDaypring1987

I think there are funds that trade BTC futures. I got burnt by buying farming futures ETF (soy, coffee, etc) because the tax structure was a nightmare. Tax time was a pooh show.

NashDaypring1987

I forgot one last important point regarding BTC ETF's. If you hold it in a taxable account, you have to report the sale of BTC within the ETF. These BTC ETF's sell a little of their BTC to fund the management of the fund. This is technically a taxable event that you have to report. In practice, most people own so little that the IRS probably won't care. It's simply something to be considered.

IInsulince

Thank you for recognizing that there *is* a cost to these things, just not one you deem very high. Most people don’t even grant that much. That said, I understand your position on it. I’ve been subjected to a 60 day holding period before. Is it a big deal? I mean I did get my money eventually, right? Well yea, but imagine I needed those funds urgently. Fortunately I didn’t in my case, but if I had I would have been screwed due to forces outside of my control. As for government regulations, I’m more describing majorly unfair taxes levied against digital assets/unrealized gains, or something like a 6102 attack. It sounds unrealistic. It always does, until it happens. But it’s the idea that the government declares a state of emergency and is required to seize the digital assets of all citizens because it’s causing an economic crisis. They can do this so ridiculously easily through an exchange, ETF, or any centralized custodian, because they are a point of failure that can be targeted. If you self custody, they can’t take it from you without targeting you, which would require: 1. Them even knowing you have any in the first place 2. It being worth it economically and physically to go to your house and compel you to turn it over with force With a custodian, they simply need to deliver the mandate and they will fold. You surely have your own level of incredulity around this scenario, and that’s fine. That’s why it’s a judgement call, and it’s why I don’t judge anyone for how they wish to hold their bitcoin. There’s risks no matter where you turn, so your job is to determine which risk model you find most acceptable, and go there.

OBvanken

So, next ATH crash will start because od ETF, got it.

SeriousGains

I’ll bite. There’s no reason to buy a crypto ETF. If you’re buying crypto that way you shouldn’t be in it at all.

tumtum

ETF support the traditional banking system - not my choice

Dapper_Addition_3837

My brother here thinks every crypto has an ETF.

rocket_beer

An ETF is a fiat transaction That isn’t adoption ETFs keep all the power centralized still, just like now

tecksupport

No one stopping you bro. Just tired of the same ole same ole, everyone has a dif risk tolerance and keeping your stack with a brokerage or buying an ETF is an option.

Mark_Underscore

Or if you're worried about your ETF losing their bitcoin, buy BITO, it's just futures contracts. You can't steal my bitcoin if I only hold futures contracts!

Similar_Scar7089

I agree, for people who are not confident with technology, an ETF is best

Got_Engineers

Or you could buy a spot bitcoin ETF like IBIT and hold your bitcoin next to the rest of everyone’s money. Everyone uses banks and custodians in real life still. Most people probably have a pension. But store bitcoin differently because they know more about

2alphastyle

Buy an S&P ETF.

deltamark_btc

six 4h rejections at the 50d EMA ($64,587) right now. every test, price wicks above and closes back below. volume declining on each push - that's distribution not accumulation. for a real rally to stick something needs to shift: fed is priced at \~65% probability of a rate hike in september (not a cut), ETF flows have been choppy, clarity act still pending. jobs print today is a binary - if it runs hot the rate hike odds go higher and btc has more overhead pressure. not timing it to a date, just watching which of those flips first.

Sprunklefunzel

Bitcoin is not crypto. TA is 100% BS. Nobody knows shit about fuck when it comes to market/trading. MACRO is informative but terrible at timing. Prefer owning your own BTC but unless you have specific needs and up until a certain sum, buying an ETF is fine. Just HODL. Ignore influencers. Their interests are not aligned with yours. Bitcoin is disruptive tech. People are afraid of change and will fight it. Spin up a full node if you can. Never invest more than you can afford to lose. BTC is the best form.of money ever, but this does not mean humans are smart enough to realise this and not take advantage of Satoshi Nakamoto gave us. Never advertise how much BTC you have, nothing good ever comes from doing so. Don't push BTC ideology on to others but explain and educate those willing to listen. Hold tight! It's going to be a wild ride.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

BigvalBROski

Add a passphrase or buy the ETF

Guy_Incognito97

For most people it will be 18% tax above £3000 profit and fees are negligible. That’s roughly the same as the US where most people will pay 15% on all profit. For a short time you were allowed to hold BTC via ETF in an ISA and pay no tax but that was removed unfortunately. Hopefully it is reinstated.

BigvalBROski

Use a passphrase or just buy the ETF

NOtangibEL

Why should he then buy the ETF if the underlyin Asset is so shitty in your eyes?

BigvalBROski

New peeps don’t care about the white paper. The masses do it want to play with 24 word seed phrases or additional passphrase…… with everything that happened with cold card, ETF is much easier and you don’t have to worry about someone cleaning out your wallet…. I have family members that just bought bitcoin ETF. They wouldn’t have otherwise…

theincognito66

if everyone sold all their BTC and only bought the ETF, this entire asset would collapse in value. Read the white paper - we are trying to own something that banks and governments cannot control.

BigvalBROski

Yes but buy the ETF. No need for exchange or cold storage anymore

NOtangibEL

Bad Advice. Pay Fees for an ETF and also dont get any from Bitcoins Features

DifficultSquash1517

No one in this community will be satisfied until everybody's wallets are drained Why are you against getting the ETF? Do you hate having a good night sleep or something? 🤣 Unless you're in it for the tech then I apologize but I'm just in it for the price action which the ETF delivers the same and more, as you can right covered calls on your ETFs and generate 1 to 2% every month. That is a massive amount of money that very few asset classes can replicate 🤑🤑😮

ihavenotimeforgames2

Ledger is VC backed, which does boost its credibility substantially. I just wish people can covert BTC to ETF shares, then no one would have to worry about cold storage bullshit.

NashDaypring1987

When you sell, you have to write down a cost basis for taxes. If it never left Coinbase, they can fill it out for you and report to IRS. Otherwise, you have to report it. If you ever get audited, you might have to prove that cost basis. Tracking coins moving around is a pain. It's an extra headache. If you buy BTC ETF's, you also don't have this problem. Your broker will report the cost basis just like any stock.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

I hear what you're saying man, I did much the same. Some BTC in ETF(s), all using different custodians. I also keep some on another exchange, and some in a cold wallet. The whole prospect of like you said, 1 bad day, 1 lapse in judgement, 1 unforeseen event out of my control.... vaporized. No recourse. I partially blame some of these youtube "influencers" preaching "Invest in 100% BTC and ONLY BTC, and self-custody in a cold wallet"! If you questioned that, they'd shout "Not your keys, not your coins"! Whole lotta people just found out the hard way - that wasn't entirely true.

clueless707

I don’t think this breaks Bitcoin, but it does break the very comfortable way people talk about self-custody. A hardware wallet doesn’t remove trust. You’re still trusting the firmware, the build process, the random number generation and whatever security review happened before you bought it. Most people have no realistic way to check any of that themselves. The AI part is still unclear. Coinkite thinks AI may have helped someone find the bug because the code was public, but they don’t know that. They also said they ran an AI review themselves and it missed the bug. Organisations like Prem AI have opened K3 access for researchers auditing public code: [https://x.com/premai\_io/status/2084552134444662986](https://x.com/premai_io/status/2084552134444662986) For most people, custody will probably end up being a mix. Some will self-custody. Some will use multisig or assisted custody. Plenty will choose an ETF or regulated custodian. Bitcoin still gives people the option to hold their own money. We probably need to stop pretending that option is automatically simple or safe.

LV_HiLife

The victims of this hack honestly make me contemplate about Btc,it was not just regular Bitcoiners it was Bitcoiners who had conviction who did the right thing and took it off an exchange and stored it onto a cold wallet. I am an average person who works a regular 9-5 so DCA works perfect for me however because I am an average person IDK if I can even handle such a loss shoot idk if I can even do a 20K loss, makes me just look into ETF’s or buying stocks that own mainly btc

Gamer_Grease

The alternative is you don’t use Bitcoin. There are reasons that Bitcoin doesn’t have all the traditional protections and assurances as the traditional finance system, and the limited quantity and non-fungibility have a lot to do with it. It’s no problem for the FDIC to print $250,000 more to put in your account in the event of a bank failure or fraud. The same cannot be done for Bitcoin. That property ripples up through the system, all the way up to something like an ETF, where ultimately there are still identifiable bitcoins at the root of the system. Not cash that can be double-triple-quadruple spent at will.

585463

Why buy the ETF if even those ETFs may not be securing the BTC safely…

Not-a-Doctor-622

I know you don’t want to hear this right now, but you can make this money again in an ETF in no time. This will be one of the worst setbacks in life, but it’s not the end of your financial life. Don’t do anything rash

DaleAguaAlMono

>The reason banks and financial institutions are “safe” is because even if they get hacked and lose your money, they have a liability to repay you back. With self banking, there is no liability, making you the ultimate pig for slaughter. So, "let me guess"... Buy from ETF, right? Right? So much money on hands, and so poor creativity!

NashDaypring1987

Do a mix to play it safe. I keep the BTC ETF in my Roth. I can trade without taxes or worrying too much about getting unwanted attention from the IRS. I keep the a little on Coinbase. These are the stuff I plan to sell in the mid or short term. I also do some staking (not BTC) on Coinbase. Taxes are made easier because chain of custody never left the exchange. I don't trade enough to trigger audit attention. The stuff I plan to keep forever or when all heck busts out is kept of a hardware wallet.

quintavious_danilo

That’s a personal decision to make. Whatever feels better to you is appropriate for you. There is no general advice to go and by an ETF over the real thing. If it makes you lose stress, It’s the way to go for *you*.

Zestyclose_Ad2462

My heart goes out to all those affected by this. They did NOTHING wrong, everything they were supposed to and still.... got vaporized. One thing missing here is this: Many of these youtube "influencers" have been pushing to invest in BTC and ONLY BTC, self-custody/cold wallets and get off exchanges. If you questioned that, you were shut down with the "not your keys, not your coins" argument. Going to need a new slogan after this. I am new to BTC and still believe in BTC, but never would I put all my eggs in one basket. Chose multiple ETF's using different custodians, then setup a cold wallet and funded it with a tiny, tiny amount. In addition to that I use a 4th exchange to keep a very small sum on. My reasoning: Blackrock, etc. employs cyber-security experts far more knowledgeable than I. The tiny expense ratio is money well spent IMO, unless you're some cyber-whiz. And no, it's not insured by FDIC/SPIC. But at least there's a chance Fidelity or whoever would make people whole, if they dropped the ball. That and the Fed can always print more $ to give to custodians/big banks (remember the great recession?) to reimburse people. Still, you can and should have low-cost index funds, gold, REIT's etc. Good rule to live by: No more than 10% in any one investment! And self-custody? It's there/built, if the world ends and I need it.

IInsulince

If you think an exchange subjecting you to holding periods or complying with government regulations is unrealistic, then I’m sorry but you aren’t paying attention. This happens constantly to average folks. It’s happened to me, my dad, my friends in the space, it happens to people who don’t even use bitcoin but just trade stocks on places like Robin Hood. It happens to everyone, and not just those you turn your nose up to and say are bad actors. When you accept counterparty risk you can and will get burned by it. Once again it’s a tradeoff for you to judge, I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy the ETF, I’ve never once said that in this thread. I’m saying you should know what you are buying, because it isn’t Bitcoin. It’s Bitcoin exposure. And that’s fine if that’s all you truly want to worry about.

NotAnotherRebate

ETF ETF ETF. I have a ledger, and I’ve had other types of wallets. I’ve only ever felt secure when holding an ETF. I think a large portion of crypto holders are safer this way. I’ve moved most of my crypto to ETFs. I capture all the gains with none of the individual wallet risks.

pepe_____-

At this point just buy the ETF

pjb1999

Yeah this whole thing has sort of turned me off to crypto maybe for good. I started buying BTC and some other coins nearly 10 years ago but Im seriously thinking about selling at least half of everything I have at the next BTC ATH and just dumping that money into my VOO ETF. The stress of self custody is just too much honestly. Especially after something like this happens.

BigvalBROski

Buy the ETF. This isn’t 2019.

AdRoKa

Can you recommend a bean ETF?

Myntad_com

Yeah, with an ETF you have less insight into how the custody is actually managed. I also still believe in personal responsibility

Able_Mud_5373

I still consider myself a novice in the Bitcoin world since I only started stacking last December and 2 weeks ago I transfer my first 0.01 BTC to my Keystone. Hearing how this coldcard exploit harm so many users. I can't help but to think that this is great news for the banks and ETF funds. I think many people will be too scared to deal with the responsibility and stress of self custody but still want to be involved in Bitcoin. Well here is a Bitcoin ETF to the rescue.

dvondurden

No doubt that it is safer to roll dice, multi-sig, air gapped devices and so on. If we are talking honestly about adoption though, this is not for the regular user. Entry barriers need to become lower, not higher. Too many factors where you can fuck it up. AI will become an exponentially bigger threat going forward. Even if it contradicts the core principles of bitcoin, I think at this point the ETF is the best way for the average user. Until we come up with better solutions for self custody, we just have to accept this or be fine with adoption not happening

FinanceOnly4U

I had a buddy who sent all his crypto $60k . To a YouTuber pretending to be the CEO. It was all AI . They promised to double it . So many fell for it at the time . My crypto is all in safe ETF within an IRA 💪🏼

PlutoPlaneta

a centralized exchange. *gasps* . no wait, crypto ETF i a bank brokerage *gasps*

DonTheHolder

All of them have firmware from the internet. Get a ETF such as IBIT or GBTC or CEX such as Coinbase. Let the experts guard your cryptocurrency and trades Let the security experts protect your assets. Not to mention being wrench tortured, dying without a heirloom to pass on or the most important thing a simple beneficiary list with no charge such as a will or trust. Don't you keep seeing the same thing? Low end security devices that hold your wallets, low end, or solo owned exchanges with not backing or solvency? Wake up. Get good. Stop getting rekt. It's embarrassing 😳.

DonTheHolder

All of them have firmware from the internet. Get a ETF such as IBIT or GBTC or CEX such as Coinbase. Let the experts guard your cryptocurrency and trades Let the security experts protect your assets. Not to mention being wrench tortured, dying without a heirloom to pass on or the most important thing a simple beneficiary list with no charge such as a will or trust. Don't you keep seeing the same thing? Low end security devices that hold your wallets, low end, or solo owned exchanges with not backing or solvency? Wake up. Get good. Stop getting rekt. It's embarrassing 😳.

Zaytion_

ETFs isn't using crypto. If all crypto ever does is end up in an ETF, it has failed.

Zaytion_

ETFs isn't using crypto. If all crypto ever does is end up in an ETF, it has failed.

classified_x

Unless the ETF is a separated entity and they find a loophole to pay in case it fails? Not saying it will happen, or that it is, just saying smaller ETFs could have such terms

LokiLoke95

I know this is obviously a real problem for real people, but part of me seems to think with all of the people coming out of the woodwork and making these posts it seems like its targeted in a way.. almost as if it's promoting ETF's instead of self custody.. or something else entirely. IDK it's just a feeling. But sorry that happened to you OP. Hopefully you and everyone else can find a way to hold them accountable.

unshak3n

I would add ETF as better than self custody nowadays.

DifficultSquash1517

Not only are you taking much higher risk with self-custody the low risk option is to buy the ETF and is an added bonus you could make one to two percent every month selling covered calls which is a massive amount of money

IInsulince

You will ride the rocket ship with the ETF, you just don’t own the bitcoin. And if you’re comfortable with that, then it’s fine. You will ride the rocket ship via price exposure for as long as your custodian is good for it. If you feel your custodian will be good for it indefinitely, then it’s not a bad choice at all, especially if you are more fearful that you are unable to secure the assets yourself. That’s fine, it’s a very difficult process with high stakes as we are seeing. But if the custodian one day isn’t good for it, you may wish you went the other route. It’s just stuff to think about, it’s a personal call for everyone.

Ravens3505

Spot ETF where? Robinhood? Vanguard? What if they fold? The same protection you have with those companies you have with Coinbase. American government rules and regulations compliant. All 3 of them

Inevitable-Waltz-889

100%.  If you asked an average bitcoin holder, whether by ETF, exchange, or self custody, the large majority of not going to know what Coldcard is.  An even larger majority will not have their coins stored on one.  Hardcore bitcoiners live in a bubble.  Most people's lives don't revolve around their digital money stack.

BritCanuck05

Never gonna happen. As a normal investor (ETF’s) I see crypto as pure gambling. It’s not being used for its intended purpose, i.e peer to peer money transfers. The only things it’s being used for is ‘investments’ and scammers. The terminology alone is going to put off the general public, i’ve got a tech background and just shake my head at the gobbledegook that crypto users have to know and understand. Even now i’ve been reading comments from supposed crypto experts who think their BTC was physically in their Cold wallet. Add in no regulation, sketchy crypto companies, no customer service and no fund insurance, mass adoption is never gonna happen. Crypto is the wild west of gambling. The cool kid on the block is no more.

Ok-Astronaut4952

I’m the one who has the opinion that doesn’t go 100 percent in either direction. That makes sense, third world countries are like the only application of crypto where you actually use it. But in terms of bitcoin’s role in global finance, that’s hugely insignificant. There’s no reason why anybody with access to the ETF or just centralized services will chose self custody long term. I can see why you would think that from your perspective though

Ok-Concept-7924

The risk of the wallets getting compromised would be exceptionally low, considering the level of technical and organisational controls these custodians will be using to protect the funds. They will also have insurance coverage, although perhaps not covering all scenarios and definitely not as strong as FDIC-style deposit insurance. Much smaller chance of getting compromised than the average person with self-custody. Having said that, the risk is quite concentrated so a major incident at one of the large custodians (eg. Coinbase, who hold 84% of all US spot Bitcoin ETF assets) could impact the entire market catastrophically.

Ok-Concept-7924

They are regulated by the SEC like any other ETF and will be subject to regulatory controls and audit machinery. Same as buying any ETF (commodity, index fund etc) - you are trusting that the fund owns the underlying asset. This isn't DeFi, you aren't going to get a cryptographic proof, you're buying a traditional finance product with the traditional finance trust model behind it.

brandnewmoo

Why? What is your thesis that it would lose value if I buy a spot ETF??

BigvalBROski

But the ETF

ToolTime2121

My holding period has changed. I'll likely cash out for some retirement property somewhere btw 500k-1 million instead of waiting for multiple million I also use the ETF to play market cycles while keeping my long term stack. Don't give a shit if it isn't "real Bitcoin" or "bLaCkRoCk WiLl SeIZe iT"

DeFiBandit

Shoulda bought the ETF

BigvalBROski

The most comical part is when the cold card guys grilled the Ledger CEO about Ledger Recover… When I saw this I vowed to never get into cold card…. It’s just a clunky looking calculator. There’s no need for this anymore…. Just buy the ETF… I did …

Prior-Book5312

My post is pro-Bitcoin. If you intend to buy more, keep it and use it yourself, good. If you intend to "buy more, keep it on an ETF, use it as a stock," that's stupid and you're just throwing dollars away.

RevengeTrade

You think most people buy BTC due to thinking it’s a superior medium of exchange than fiat? Vast majority of crypto degens buy BTC and other shot coins because they want to sell it for a higher price, not for utility reasons… so why shouldn’t they just buy spot ETF or leave it on exchanges? Most people are just investing in it. They don’t care about the philosophy of BTC.

Unable_Beat_3194

If you don’t understand what entropy is and how it is used to input randomness to seed generation and how to properly use air gap environments to store keys then you are probably better off using an ETF. I personally don’t even understand the point of Coldcard or Trezor when you can just spin up a fresh VM with an isolated disabled network adapter and using that as a cold wallet with image backups. Isolating hot wallet to another VM for signing transactions and not interacting with a network where keys are stored.

Gamer_Grease

Bitcoin’s potential future value hinges on mainstream dollars entering its system. Mainstream dollars are all held by the mainstream financial system. As big banks and financial firms enter Bitcoin more and more, they will drive the price higher and higher by connecting Bitcoin to pools of investment cash. But in turn they will centralize Bitcoin, and also bring on more state regulation and scrutiny. ETFs, for example, are complex custody arrangements where no actual Bitcoin is owned by the buyer, just claims to profits and losses derived from trading Bitcoin. If this becomes how most people interact with Bitcoin, it will mean a huge amount of the current falling under the control of major and heavy-regulated financial institutions. But the fact that I can log into my Fidelity account and invest last month’s bond payouts into a BTC ETF means that Bitcoin is exposed to a lot more money, so the price will rise relative to what it would be if I had to, say, buy bitcoin in cash from another user on the street. Centralization with the tradeoff of much higher value. They will also bring in more regulation. First, in that these institutions have a lot of rules for how they interact with each other and handle their money, and states and central banks don’t care if that money is on the blockchain or if it’s fiat. So without a single law being passed anywhere, mainstream finance getting into crypto means a lot of crypto suddenly has a lot of regulations applied to it. Secondly, Fidelity et al will not lay down and accept a cold card exploit or similar tomfoolery with their money. They will lobby states and central banks to impose more laws and more surveillance on the blockchain to ensure these “Wild West”-type events do not cause them to lose money. So again, the price goes up, but Bitcoin’s use as decentralized, extralegal currency will fade away.

Choice_Potato_6279

Best bet is holding an ETF at this point, I think Blackrock's ETF cannot fail unless the economy dies. Though making a seed via Bitcoin Core theoretically should be save, I cannot see a scenario where Core devs fuck up this badly and Bitcoin being worth much after that.

Objective-Choice6518

If they hack the ETF's BTC wallet they'll still have to pay you back anyways. It's one os the pros of centralizarion