Reddit Posts
Why 13 Weeks Of Strong ETF Flows Haven’t Moved XRP
What would make you switch from bullish to bearish on crypto, or the other way around?
Do you think it's the right time to buy more BTC?
What is the benefit of self storage and managing wallets when you can just buy a BTC ETF
The Easiest Way to Control Bitcoin Holders Is to Scare Them Out of Self-Custody.
Thailand Bitcoin ETF Listings Start October 16 After SEC Approval
BTC ETFs went from +$2.4b to +$241m in a week. cooling off or just a breather?
Bitcoin’s $87,000 Wall: Your Breakout Is Someone Else’s Exit. ETF buyers are back. So are sellers. Behind the stalled rally is a struggle between fresh conviction, old regret, and demand that has quietly slowed.
Bitcoin’s $87,000 Wall: Your Breakout Is Someone Else’s Exit.
Asset manager with 400 million Assets Under Management files Pepe ETF
Run a node and feel the economic energy at your fingertips.
IS CRYPTO WINTER OVER? Lots of analysts now think so after price rerate and ETF inflows spike post Clarity Act failure
Bitcoin ETF demand is back, but the flow is not evenly distributed
Uptober: BTC has closed green in 10 of the last 13 Octobers. But we've got a potential Fed hike on Oct 27 and 10Y yields over 5%. Does the pattern hold this year?
I bought BTC and ETH very early. Then I discovered leverage and gave it all back.
Is tokenized gold actually better than a gold ETF?
Bitcoin is at $86K. Are we seeing real demand or just a short squeeze?
Nearly $1B in Bitcoin ETF inflows yesterday - the highest since October 2025
BTC breaks $82K resistance, hits 8-month high of $86K — but leverage is piling back in fast
Is this rally being driven by Bitcoin buyers — or just shorts getting destroyed?
I like the boggle head approach — but,
I’ve Been Trying to Break My BTC Thesis Since August — Here’s What Survived
I’ve Been Trying to Break My BTC Thesis Since August — Here’s What Survived
Bitcoin’s 21 Million Paradox: Everyone Wants Cheap Transactions. Who Pays for Security?
SGX cleared by CFTC to offer BTC and ETH perpetual futures to US institutions
I track perpetual open interest across four venues every day: ETH's book just closed at 70.2% of Bitcoin's, rank 1 of my 73 sessions, while funding sat on its median
BTC keeps hanging around $80K despite ETF outflows. Is that actually bullish?
The $400,000 Mirage: Why Coinbase Wants You to Believe the Bitcoin Four-Year Cycle Is Dead.
bought a top again because i can't leave green candles alone
'Bitwise Kills Dogecoin ETF After 10 Months — Is the $1 DOGE Dream Dead?'
A Simple 5-Field Log for Reviewing Bitcoin Decisions
Looking at the shady background of the VCs behind Zcash (ZEC)
ZEC is really above four digits now?
YTD Performance Split: BTC (-12.5%) vs S&P 500 (+11.5%) with +$227M ETF Inflows. What’s your take on current risk levels?
YTD Performance Split: BTC (-12.5%) vs S&P 500 (+11.5%) with +$227M ETF Inflows. What’s your take on current risk levels?
Bitcoin sentiment is split exactly 15/15 between FOMO and FUD right now, which basically means nobody's convinced either way
Bitcoin sentiment is exactly split 25/25 on FOMO vs FUD right now, and the tweets show traders just waiting for a signal near 65k-66k
Bitcoin sentiment right now: FOMO barely edges out FUD (20% vs 15%) while everyone waits on ETF and macro news
Bitcoin sentiment right now: FOMO barely edges out FUD (20% vs 15%) while everyone waits on ETF and macro news
Bitcoin near $79.5K, three straight weeks of ETF inflows, and a Fed week that could decide which way this breaks
Privacy coins are rotating as a sector, not just Zcash
¿Qué bróker utilizas para comprar acciones, ETF o criptomonedas?
We still aren't out if the woods for BTC
Bitcoin ETF inflows hit $3.8B in strongest three-week stretch of 2026
Bitcoin liquidity fears rise despite billions in ETF inflows
What’s the hype about $2.25B Goldman Sachs’s bitcoin deal
What’s the hype about $2.25B Goldman Sachs’s bitcoin deal
If a Bitcoin fork creates a new asset, what actually happens to it inside IBIT or FBTC?
Goldman Sachs Becomes Largest Spot XRP ETF Holder
the ETF inflow streak breaking may be healthier than people think
Internet Retirement Asset ($IRA) – The memecoin paying passive S&P 500 ($SPYx) rewards
Solana's Memecoin Sector Just Had Its Biggest Week Since Late 2025 — Here's the On-Chain Breakdown
On-Chain & Macro Breakdown: What a $40M movement from 10-year dormant wallets actually signals for market liquidity
BTC $85k by 2026 is 68c, but smart money is 81% YES. Fair?
Bitcoin Surges $14,775 in a Week: What Is Really Happening in the Crypto Market?
BlackRock’s Bitcoin ETF regains key weekly options expiries after rule overhaul
Analyst Bitcoin Price Predictions: Who's On Track and Who's Not
BlackRock has now pulled more than $5 BILLION of BTC into its ETF system
Bitcoin Tops $81,000 as ETF Demand Rebounds and Dollar Weakens
Bitcoin’s Rally Is Becoming a BlackRock Market: 70% of ETF Flows Came Through IBIT.
Bitcoin’s Rally Is Becoming a BlackRock Market: 70% of ETF Flows Came Through IBIT.
Bitcoin sentiment right now: FOMO barely beats FUD (20% vs 15%) and most people aren't feeling strongly either way
The BTC breakout was a Treasury liquidity event, not a crypto event — and the funding data says it's not a crowded long yet
Grayscale Is Turning Zcash Into an ETF and the SEC Might Actually Let It Happen
Should I invest in Onyx and XRP?
Could the CLARITY Act Keep This Crypto Run Alive Until September 15?
🚀 Bitcoin Hits $71,000! Crypto Market में भारी तेज़ी! 🚀#crypto #bitcoin ...
Mentions
I moved everything into a FTSE All-World ETF, spreading my money across over 3,000 companies worldwide. Crypto just feels too unpredictable for me these days, especially with a wife and kids. The ETF has a long history of growth despite occasional downturns, and it's had a strong year so far. I know there are risks too, but I'm investing for decades, not months. It simply fits my risk tolerance much better and lets me sleep better at night.
Ok, fair. First result means first "real" result. I couldn't imagine clicking on an ad if I was looking for research and opinions on something. I also couldn't imagine randomly investing in an ETF not through an existing brokerage platform. I guess some people interested in Bitcoin though aren't traditional investors and don't have the background. What you are saying is it's a standard investment scam and they just use Bitcoin as their entry point. They could be selling anything and operate the same scam.
Let me preface by thanking you for the response and the effort. I’ve read some of these and they are really helpful and someone will be better off after reading your post But you’re kind of missing the point that me and many are making in this thread. If you need to read 3 books to kind to figure out how to safely use bitcoin. Then bitcoin will never be a mainstream cash alternative. Because it won’t be safe for the layman. I’m talking about the vast majority of people, not us technical people. The question was rhetorical in “what’s the manual” There isn’t. And if the solution is to go ETF then just get any security. If it has value because you want to invest and speculate that’s awesome. I sued Netscape navigator as well. I don’t agree with the “feeling”. I don’t remember people scamming left and right and rug pulls and such with the early days of the internet (at least as widespread) but maybe that was just me.
You can borrow against your BTC. Can you borrow against your ETF shares?
Yes, ETF funds. Maybe QQQ, or grab the SMH dip. Certainly start stacking VOO otherwise.
I’d separate flow from price impact: watch cumulative spot CVD or exchange net flows alongside ETF creations/redemptions, then see whether price holds without open interest and funding rebuilding. ETF flows alone miss buyers outside ETFs, and exchange-flow data is noisy, so no single metric settles it.
Never invest what you can’t lose. You could also diversify. Half in a boring ETF. The other in BTC.
Lower volatility can reduce short-term speculation, but it can also make Bitcoin easier for larger, longer-horizon investors to hold. The useful distinction is whether liquidity is leaving entirely or simply shifting from leveraged trading toward spot ownership. Which measure would change your view most: trading volume, long-term holders, or ETF flows?
Yeah, exactly. Liquidations can give us a quick bounce but that doesnt mean buyers are back. I’d watch spot volume and ETF flows first. If price keeps going up without those improving, I’m not really convinced the demand is there yet.
You've actually named the strongest argument against just defaulting to the ETF: what happens if you die. An ETF solves that problem by keeping your Bitcoin in the regular financial system. Your spouse deals with a brokerage account, not a wallet. That's a real convenience, and I won't pretend otherwise. What you give up is ownership itself. With FBTC you hold a claim on Bitcoin held by someone else. You can't withdraw it, spend it, or move it if the fund's terms change or an account gets frozen. You also pay that 0.25% every year, forever, for the privilege. Self-custody flips the trade. Nobody can freeze or lend out your coins, and there's no annual drag. The risk you flagged is also real, but it's a planning problem, not a dead end. Written recovery instructions, a backup that survives fire, and a spouse who has actually walked through where everything is turns "gone forever" into a process your family can follow. Decide which one you're actually buying: exposure to the price, or Bitcoin itself. Most people never stop to make that assessment.
I think the idea of self custody makes sense but I live in a country where it's cheaper to just buy Bitcoin-backed ETF:s or ETP:s and hold it in your trading account than buy it through a platform like Coinbase and then transfering it to a cold wallet, and honestly I'm still a bit trauamtized from the Coldcard wallet scandal.
Thanks, I appreciate your perspective! Crypto has become far too unpredictable for me. I was incredibly lucky to sell near the peak because we needed the money for a new car. Otherwise, I probably would have held on much longer and sold at a far worse price. Pure luck, not market timing. A World ETF simply fits my current risk tolerance
ETF flows, inflation data, and market sentiment can influence Bitcoin's price, but predicting a market bottom remains difficult.
I'm bullish but if we slice clean through the 200-week moving average and stay there for more than a couple candles I'd have to step back. That level's held through every major wipeout so losing it would feel different. ETF flows and macro matter but they're more about timing than direction for me, I'm watching that weekly chart like it owes me money.
You said the value of bitcoin will fall if more people will hold ETF.
Post is by: Tobias_CBC and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1x6i8xy/what_would_make_you_switch_from_bullish_to/ It’s easy to find evidence supporting whichever outlook you already have. I think the harder question is deciding beforehand what would make you reconsider. For those who are bullish: what would signal that this is more than a temporary pullback? For those who are bearish: what would convince you a recovery has real support? Would you put more weight on price making higher highs and higher lows, the 200-day moving average, ETF flows, or macro conditions? My view is that one indicator alone gives an incomplete picture, but waiting for everything to agree has its own drawbacks. What’s your current outlook, your time horizon, and the strongest piece of evidence that could change your mind? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.
What is suddenly with all this drama posting when we see 2% price swings? This is crypto, not some ETF?
That’s only true for Bitcoin Futures ETFs, which deal in paper contracts. Modern Spot Bitcoin ETFs are backed 1:1 by actual Bitcoin held securely by a custodian Even better, the Monochrome Bitcoin ETF (IBTC) in Australia that I use isnt just a regular spot ETF, it uses a unique bare trust structure. This allows investors to utilize an in kind redemption pathway. So you can choose to redeem your units this way, you can literally withdraw the actual, underlying physical Bitcoin directly into your own cryptocurrency wallet. Its fundamentally backed by the real asset, not just USD returns.
How? I never understand how people lose money day trading. Even if you enter at a very bad time, you wait long enough for it to turn green again (ideally wait until it pays the equivalent inflation loss + any taxes accrued). The only way I can see people losing all their money is either leveraging themselves, taking loans to gamble, or just constantly trying to time the market and losing money constantly to brokerage. Please for fucksake do not invest, you do not have the mental fortitude to watch red candles. Just put your money in a long term bank account to offset inflation and be happy, or dump everything in an ETF and don’t touch it for 20 years.
Post is by: TheDTYP and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1x6abl8/do_you_think_its_the_right_time_to_buy_more_btc/ I'm not buying the "wait for the October bottom" thing anymore. Four-year-cycle folks circle October as the low, and people on reddit keep arguing about whether there's another leg down, but I've already been buying as if it keeps going. It was chopping around 80k for a bit. ETF flows bounce around, hot CPI pushes Fed hike odds up and you get a short dump, but the spot floor near 80k is still holding. I care more about the longer stuff: post-halving rhythm, spot channels still open, buyers showing up on dips. Waiting for a perfect low is too mystical for a beginner like me. I've been DCAing a bit of spot BTC on moomoo. I also bought some BTC upside event contracts on moomoo's prediction markets, same direction, small size. Not because I was hedging doubt. I think it still goes higher and I wanted both ways of saying that. Are you still waiting on an October bottom, or are you already buying for upside? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because you eventually have to sell an ETF. With actual bitcoin you can borrow against it - tax free. And keep your bitcoin.
ETF is more for exposure and trusting someone to custody the property. When you self custody you are sovereign and can move around the world and conduct transactions as you need.
So you are saying people don't take the time to Google "best Bitcoin ETFs" before investing large sums? Also, if an ETF is s scam, how does it but get kicked off the exchange? If you have an article, I'd love to read it.
When was the last time you bought stuff/paid for something with a fraction of an ETF? Seems complicated.
Litecoin had its chance to remain relevant but they screwed that up. Now it's just another shitcoin sitting at all time lows on the ratio. It never pumps when everything else is but sure does dump with everything. The Litecoin ETF has been live for a year and barely has $10 Million inflows. The worst crypto ETF ever launched. Zero demand. It's headed to zero on the ratio over the long run.
So this thread made me try to imagine El Salvador using ETF proxies as legal tender alongside bitcoin🤣🤣🤣
When has buying an ETF ever been "not though
People buy an ETF because it buys the thing in it. ETF operator buys the bitcoin.
I mean to use an ETF to hold your BTC. Because you can hold a BTC ETF inside of a Tax Free Savings Account (TFSA) which makes all the Cap gains completely tax free. You can’t hold self-custody BTC inside a TFSA. So if you’re a Canadian and you have room in your TFSA, it’s crazy to me to hold BTC any other way other than an ETF
An ETF gives you exposure to Bitcoin’s price. Self-custody gives you control over your Bitcoin. If you believe in financial sovereignty, self-custody matters. Run your own node and verify, don’t trust. That’s what Bitcoin sovereignty is about. Not your keys, not your coins. 🧡🚀
It's not really specific to self-custody though. My point was that you could still be robbed even if it's in an ETF or brokerage or bank account. What's more important is operational security and maintaining a low profile and having a backup plan.
The ETF is an IOU for bitcoin’s USD returns, not one for actual bitcoin. They never owe you bitcoin.
However, if it was in an ETF then suddenly that's not the case as it's Fiat. So yes exchange doesn't help as much but the question about not having self custody in order to be safe is a good one.
The even more average Joe will buy an ETF
Not a panic sell. I've thought this through for a while. My risk tolerance has changed, and a World ETF simply fits my long-term goals better
Sounds like the 200 day SMA. It would have sold you out in December 2025 and buy back in September 2026. It’s an extremely effective way to compound, and even more so if you leverage. I use this strategy on the 2x bitcoin ETF and it’s amazing
OP u/FeeParking4506 ETFs are not BITCOIN An ETF is a fiat-to-fiat transaction. At no point do you, the purchaser, ever hold any Bitcoin, at all.
Not in this environment. Look at \*why\* we jumped. Money was flowing in week after week (check ETFs as a proxy if you like). Shorting was popular, and structurally that meant there was a lot of hidden buying pressure locked in. What about now? Open interest is falling, shorts while present aren't at levels sufficient to really pull us to new highs even if we liquidated everything close by. And importantly, sell pressure has been overcoming buying pressure, absorbing any spikes up and indicators like the Coinbase premium, futures volume, options trading and ratio, and ETF flows have all been at weak or outright negative levels. Can this change suddenly? Sure, given the right trigger. But the trend on 'normal' days is entirely different from what it was near 60. We are weak and remaining neutral to showing further weakness, while selling off any movements up even as our highs and lows each get lower. In this environment, even if we don't see a correction, we'll need ranging/consolidation to find more buyers. We don't have anything positive that would suggest hitting 100k by Christmas, other than the fact that weeks ago we were looking really good and were in a position to have seen 100k in 2026 had those trends/numbers continued.
You give an ETF money. They buy bitcoin. You get shares. They can change the rules whenever it’s convenient. And very few allow you to redeem shares for bitcoin. You do not own the underlying assets and have no control on what the company decides to do with it.
Security is about 50-50 depending how skills you are handling BTC and all its technicalities. But freedom to transact is 100% on self storages side. You could live in Russia or whatever other country and suddenly you dont have access to your ETF anymore for reason X or Y. When you want to do something with your "stack" of ETF BTC you will be asked many questions and take long time to do it. Want to buy something without your ID:s attached to it like VPN? Cant do that with ETF BTC
I feel for you. Proper self custody almost requires you to have a certain amount of IT knowledge yourself or by proxy with a very trusted party (son, relative, ...) A badly set up self custody solution is perhaps worse from a custody point of view than owning ETF shares in your stock account. This much I am prepared to admit. The Bitcoin ETFs are mildly poisonous to the overall ethos of Bitcoin though. Not personal security of custody but the overall network. I would not be so sure that Blackrock or Fidelity have any consideration for the best interests of the Bitcoin network in their operational strategies. I have often wondered if Blackrock (for e.g.) is really selling BTC into the market when there is a drawdown on the ETF shares. They are in a perfect place to snag BTC on the discount side of the market each time, and sell it back to ETF share buyers when demand returns. Not exactly moral behaviour IMHO but if I were them and discounted all my morals, I would do the same, or even hold onto them to co-opt the whole network gradually.
Governments can shut down trading, it happened during WW2, in that case your ETF are frozen. They cannot freeze your wallet.
They used to say the same about the gold ETF a couples of years ago, and it’s still running smoothly in the long run everyone will switch to centralized markets to be able to store their cryptos safely
If you only want price exposure, an ETF makes sense. Actual BTC gives you control over your coins and lets you use them on the network, but that also means taking responsibility for security and backups.
Fidelity has been on the market for almost 100 years I think you have better odds of losing your crypto if you self -custody for sure, it’s not just hacks that gives you risks, also a house fire could make you lose everything, etc, you need to have multiple backups or you can get screwed idk I agree with OP it’s a better option ETF’s even having them in a broker like Binance the odds of something happening are low and at least if something happens you get someone to blame.
Spot Bitcoin ETF net expense ratios typically range from 0.14% to 1.50% annually.
I’m using bitcoin for spending. Can’t do that with an ETF. I could use an exchange wallet for that, but I use self custody because I value my privacy.
The ETF or ETP is just exposure to the price, it is not like owning actual Bitcoin
Cause a self hosted wallet is decentralized, the ETF is centralized. If you aint figured that out you dont slightly understand what bitcoin is about.
The ETF is an IOU … if you don’t get that you don’t understand bitcoin
Hey guys. I'm just a regular dude with a lot of knowledge in computers. I do run on Linux and all kind of stuff. I'm manage networks, built dozens of computers, can debug mostly everything. Thing is, I never trusted whatever method to hold on your coins. Granted, I did not research extensively or never messed with wallets. So many horror stories, hack and what not. If I was forced to do so, I would go offline of course because but even then it's choose your poising. Major sites will always have better security than me but too much control over my shit. Offline, well... there's solid risks too. Yeah it's cool and all if you have 20K worth of BTC but large fortunes? Fuck all of this. So there's ETF and that's about it. So that's a major problem impossible to fix and then you go full circle and create BTC banks with regulations. I'm just telling what I think because people like me, we represent the mass. So that's why BTC is never going mainstream.
This is not a problem for mass adoption, just no one bothers to make it easier than it is because people in this space are at least a little technical like most BTC holders, those who arent, they just buy the ETF. Things will get better, this is not a technology limitation, this is more of a UI problem that no one bothers to solve because the masses are not here yet, so its a catch 22, in any case, it will just get better. Dont forget 15 years ago you needed to be highly technical or need a CS degree just to send btc, how far have we come.
Post is by: Tobias_CBC and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CBCCrypto/comments/1x5p53f/what_makes_you_trust_a_bitcoin_recovery_after_a/ A bounce can look convincing on the chart, but deciding whether it has real support is another question. Do you look for Bitcoin to reclaim its 50-day or 200-day simple moving average (SMA), put in a higher low, or recover with stronger trading volume? Or do macro conditions and ETF flows matter more to you? I find moving averages useful for putting price into context, but I wouldn’t treat crossing one line as enough evidence on its own. They reflect past prices, and the market can move back and forth across them. Equally, waiting for several signals to agree means accepting that part of the recovery may already have happened. **What’s your strongest sign that a bounce is becoming a sustained recovery, and what would make you distrust it?** Interested in how people approach this across different time horizons. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The ETF suggestion is a good one if your family isn’t hardcore self custody people. It’s easy to move, custody by a trusted third party, and can be added into their existing accounts easily.
Why does he have no clue for suggesting an ETF? Seems fine to me, even more fine with all this ledger shit going on.
Wouldn’t you just use a will with a dead man switch that triggers on passing to hand down the seed? Also the guy who suggests the ETF isn’t brain dead. It’s a good suggesting but just doesn’t suit your needs. But there’s going to be a big market demand for the ETF’s especially with all the recent hardware device fiascos
> A huge chunk of the bitcoin thesis is "It's not regulated, so the government can't stop you or steal from you..." except now you have an ETF which is the complete opposite, and that's just irony over irony over irony Just focus on whether or not Bitcoin has value to you. If it does, invest accordingly. If not, don't, and no worries. Only you can decide how to spend your money. I think we're still in the early days of Bitcoin's development, and that's a good thing. The development I've seen just over the past year has been amazing. I'm old enough to remember the early days of the internet going mainstream. Back when Netscape Navigator was a thing. Bitcoin today reminds me of that era, in a good way. As the world gets more scary, I think there's more value in holding Bitcoin. But that's just my opinion. > what's on the "bitcoin manual" so to speak. **Great question!** I wish there was a great How To manual for the basics. I keep meaning to write a few articles on how to get started, to help newcomers... but it's a challenging task and I'm in the middle of other projects. I'll give you three questions. The first two are technical, but written for everybody. The third is fun and absolutely free. **The Bitcoin Standard,** by Saifedean Ammous. It's a great book, and a great place to start. **The Internet of Money,** by Andreas Antonopoulos. It is a three-volume series, and each volume is very highly recommended for anyone interested in the philosophy and mechanics of Bitcoin. It's more thought provoking. There's an essay from Volume Two, titled The Five Pillars of Open Blockchain, which explains the principles that make Bitcoin resilient and trustworthy. The five pillars are: openness, public verification, neutrality, borderless operation, and resistance to censorship. OH! And the guy who wrote those (Andreas Antonopoulos) has an amazing youtube channel. Seriously top notch stuff about securing Bitcoin. Zero cool-bro gadget speak. Real security, often focussing on how average folks can do it right. Andreas is awesome. I don't know him, but his channel was a guide for me when I was getting started. And, the third recommendation... **[Five Dollar Wrench](https://hetobe.substack.com/p/table-of-contents),** by me. It's a novel about a Bitcoin thief, which I've published online, totally free. The point of the novel is to encourage Bitcoin holders to think about how they secure their seed phrases by telling the story of a woman who robs people by searching their homes to find them.
So the best practice for the vast majority of people. Which would ironically make it "THE" best practice in generalist terms. Like what's on the "bitcoin manual" so to speak. I'm not saying you personally need to buy ETFs, but the fact that for the majority of people (vast majority are not tech savyy or going to have studies in cryptography, etc.) the option is to buy a regulated security is just bonkers. A huge chunk of the bitcoin thesis is "It's not regulated, so the government can't stop you or steal from you..." except now you have an ETF which is the complete opposite, and that's just irony over irony over irony
What has better than a 100% + CAGR ? What is safer than something that has almost perfect properties? As long as you buy an ETF or know what you're doing it's safe in terms of not losing it, and if you're talking about safe in terms of price action then BTC has been an extremely safe long term hold.
I’m 40 and I thought I’d never ever forget my 25th passphrase. Guess what after 4 years I forgot it! The fact that you can’t store it digitally and can’t write it somewhere because you could lose it or someone gets a hold of it, the only solution I had was to memorize it. It took me 3 weeks to vaguely remember it and with the help of btc recover I was able to gain my coins. So I understand if someone doesn’t want to deal with that stress anymore and is happy with ETF.
Good that you've found the best solution for you. I used to be 100% self custody. Due to recent events I've decided to diversify my custody: 1/3 in cold storage, 1/3 held by Fidelity Crypto and 1/3 in an ETF. That's what I feel most comfortable with at this time, based on my personal situation.
> But I find it hilarious how the new “best practice for normies” is basically buying ETF The new best practice isn't to buy an ETF. Buying an ETF is the best option for those who aren't willing or able to do the work required to do self custody right. And I don't view that as a bad thing. I think it's great that there are options for others, even if I wouldn't choose those options for myself.
I do a little of everything. I self custody, some in a hot wallet. Have shares in MSTR and will put some into an ETF soon. I have half in self and the other half split between the others.
only allow purchasing of ETN and ETP after passing a few test, no ETF allowed so I didn’t buy or own any ETF, I couldn’t
I bought ETN/ETP, not ETF, the UK doesn’t allow ETF yet.
Here's my scheduled hourly Claude task: Measure current Bitcoin news sentiment and record it in ChirrOp. Steps: 1. Use the WebSearch tool to find the latest Bitcoin news. Query for something like "bitcoin news today <current date>" (include today's date). If needed, run a second query such as "bitcoin latest news" to gather enough material. Collect the 10 most recent distinct headlines/articles about Bitcoin (ignore duplicates and non-Bitcoin items). Do NOT use reddit.com or x.com/twitter.com — they are blocked. 2. Assess overall sentiment of those \~10 headlines toward Bitcoin (price outlook, adoption, regulation tone). Produce a single integer score from -100 to +100: +100 = uniformly positive, -100 = uniformly negative, 0 = neutral/mixed. Interpolate proportionally (e.g. 7 positive, 3 negative ≈ +40). 3. Send the score to ChirrOp using the chirrop MCP server's send\_logs tool with: agent "cowork.news", event "bitcoin.sentiment.score", value = the integer score, meta = { "headlines\_sampled": <count>, "summary": "<one-sentence sentiment summary>" }. (Event ID eea95d7b-1f80-4308-9b0e-ab30e24bc869 already exists.) 4. Confirm the log was accepted (sent:1, failed:0). If send\_logs fails, retry once. Output: one short line stating the score, e.g. "Bitcoin sentiment: -35 (bearish — geopolitical tensions, ETF outflows). Sent to ChirrOp.
> in terms of Bitcoin as it was intended (peer to peer money) the ETF is worthless By that argument, so is putting your life savings into BTC, as it was not originally designed as a store of value. People will use Bitcoin by whatever the flavor of the year narrative is
Sticking your life savings in a Ledger was NEVER best practice. Especially not around here. I have no idea why some are claiming that. Probably a bunch of centralized exchange and ETF shills.
Huge cojones to post this on a Bitcoin sub. But you do have a point, somewhat. In terms of investing into Bitcoin, you could assume it’s okay to buy the ETF. But in terms of Bitcoin as it was intended (peer to peer money) the ETF is worthless.
I keep getting this on my feed. As somebody out of the loop, why not just buy a Bitcoin ETF if you have a large amount of Bitcoin? I assume those are insured against stuff like this.
One should look into tax situation too. In my country, it is more tax efficient to hold and sell BTC, Tax will matter if dreams here come true. But yeah, with all that regulation now, ETF is the future.
We had no idea how good we had it, back in the day. I remember making bank (at least, what was bank to me) mining ETF off a single GPU. I had about 6 months of good times before the wider world caught on and it became 'barely profitable' seemingly overnight.
Honestly, I don't blame you. I just dont want to go through the rigmaroll of selling my BTC, fiat conversion and then ETF purchase. If only I could do it with a native BTC deposit straight to the ETF provider.
"I'll just move to an ETF or leave it on Coinbase" is the wrong lesson from this. A tampered device is a physical risk, and you can engineer around it. An ETF or exchange balance is counterparty risk, and you can't. Not your keys, not your Bitcoin. The real lesson is that single-vendor trust is a vulnerability. Large stack? Run 2-of-3 multisig with each key on a different brand (Trezor, BitBox02, Coldcard, whatever), coordinated through Sparrow. Now a compromised warehouse, bad firmware, or weak entropy at one vendor gets an attacker exactly one key and nothing they can spend. Smaller stack? Buy direct from the manufacturer, verify firmware, use a passphrase. A bad distributor is a reason to diversify your vendors, not to hand your keys back to a bank.
To be fair, I think for ledger, while they are a legitimate company, reselling their products can be profitable for them for a business but a nightmare scenario as what we have see. Scammers using a legitimate product to insert their own suspicious activity inside of the legitimate product is just oof..tough. And how easy to get drained if you not know what did you install, etc. while it’s your responsibility but if it’s a hand of a legitimate company, yeah, I can see why people are skeptical about hardware wallets. Ledger probably need to fix their reselling process after all. But I kind of think that ETF is a safe scenario for people to store without any wallet. While you can not own bitcoin yourself in an etf, it kind of give you access to mind free money as etf would act as a middlemen to earn money from just hosting stocks.
Then self custody isn't for them, is it? I know nobody wants to admit this, but self custody requires work. Those who aren't willing to do the work are more likely to get robbed. The good news is, people who aren't ready for self custody have other options. I'm a diehard hodler, but as attacks become more sophisticated, I think more people should probably be buying ETFs instead. The sad thing is, the steps I outlined aren't hard. But people want easy answers, and anybody offering easy answers for Bitcoin self custody is somebody you should not trust. To do self custody right, you must: 1. You must know your seed phrase is trustworthy. How do you, or I, prove the seed generated by a wallet is truly random? Many of the people trusted ColdCard got robbed because their seeds weren't truly random (they were from a reproducible set). This is an easily solvable problem. Generate your own random seed phrase. 2. You must know any device you enter your seed phrase in cannot be accessed over the internet. People are going to get robbed due to Ledger's key extraction API ("Ledger Recover"). Hackers are surely using AI to reverse engineer it. This is an easily solvable problem. Don't use devices that can connect to the internet. 3. You must know any code you use for your wallet is open source and battle tested not just by the damn company that made it. This is an easily solvable problem. Stop using trendy gadgets and stop trusting companies. 4. You must know you have metal backups for everything required to restore your wallet from scratch if anything goes wrong. This is so freaking easy to do, yet so many people don't do it. ...etc. If this stuff is too hard for Average Joe, it means Average Joe isn't ready to do self custody of his Bitcoin. And that's fine. There are other options. For small sums, maybe keep them on an exchange and hope the exchange doesn't get hacked or go broke. Better yet, buy an ETF. I don't like those options for myself, so I do self custody... but I do the work to learn so I can do it right. And by the way... I don't say any of this to suggest I have all the answers. I'm still learning too, and I always will be. Always learning is part of the job of doing self custody. Everybody likes saying things like "Owning Bitcoin means being your own bank." That's true. But too many people forget it also means being your own bank security. Anybody who isn't up for the challenge of doing it right shouldn't be doing it at all, because they're not ready. And anybody who needs Bitcoin self custody boiled down to a Twitter-sized TL:DR; shouldn't be doing self custody, because they're not ready.
You have to give them a bunch of personal info, but the iShares, wisdomtree and bitwise ETF's are all accessible on trading212
I still hold about 20% of a coin through Coinbase but I did the same thing. It’s now in the form of an ETF and I’ll just continue to stack on both platforms I guess but my substantial bitcoin portfolio is now not even real bitcoin.
In theory, the ETF you hold will buy BTC if it is a spot etf and that company issuing the ETF will hold it
Why not buy MSTR instead of ETF which can give multi fold returns when bitcoin prices increases?
What will happen to BTC when 95% of people have ETF and very few have actual BTC?
I made the switch to an ETF a year ago. The annual fee is worth it for the peace of mind.
Yeah I’m Canadian. We’ve have ETFs years before the USA. I’ve always held my BTC in an ETF, mostly because you can do it in a Tax Free Savings Account so tax free profit. Whereas pure BTC you cannot. Choice is obvious. Plus I’m a dumbass that really can’t be trusted with the keys.
I can’t even get access to the ETF, the UK is so backwards when it comes to Bitcoin related things
Just bought 10k worth in the ETF today! Eventually will go all ETF
It’s not easy, f\*\*\*kin UK government or the pension broker made me go through like 3 tests to allow access to ETN, it’s not even an ETF, but I managed, sold the bitcoin, contribute voluntarily into the account, got some tax rebate and that’s that.
Create the problem, sell the solution -> Bitcoin ETF 🙃
yeah, it depends on choice. if ETF can get things done for you then it is fully good, something I just keep my btc into my bitget wallet and it get things done for me regarding daily payments,
Not exactly, however, I do agree that having multiple wallet buckets makes sense and I would also recommend practicing that. What I’m implying is that I do not think *anything* but multisig (+ multi vendor) is safe from attacks, current or future. I would never use a single signature wallet for any meaningful amount of funds, it doesn’t matter what the hardware or software setup is. If anyone is doing that, quite frankly you should probably just buy the ETF. Technically the original cypher punks did single sig with air-gapped computers but we are living in a new age, our thinking must evolve with the times. Self-custody is the reason I’m here, so going down the rabbit hole of educating yourself what multisig setups are the best for your personal situation is worth the time. Use AI to guide you, take your time, practice deleting wallets and reinstalling to get used to the process. There are privacy tradeoffs to using collaborative self-custody but that’s an option out there if you want some assistance and peace of mind. Generate your own entropy! Rolling dice is not hard and will allow you to sleep at night knowing you did it right. Sparrow wallet and Seedsigner DIY hardware wallet is what I recommend. Open source projects are where I put my trust. The ideological thinking needs to pivot to “signing devices,” where your written or steel backups is your true copy. Do not be intimidated to learn something new, a little every day goes a long way. Take your time! Do not rush and enjoy the journey ✌️ (don’t trust, verify, is not just a meme, it’s a way of life in this new uncertain security world we live in)
There’s a wallet company that has a firmware check every time you turn it on. The case is transparent, so users can see if there’s any tampering. The wallets are serialized from factory to ensure that wallet IDs match the serial numbers from the company. The challenge is that any hardware wallet will face many attack vectors. Just failing one attack vector can cause irreparable damage to its reputation, which is why I won’t name the company. This company’s firmware is now secure, but the cost of its bug fix amounted to a staggering 130 million USD in lost funds. As a consumer, you need to be vigilant and proactive to avoid becoming a victim. If you’re not tech-savvy, it’s best to just hold BTC in an ETF.
I'll tell you more. "Fidelity" means buying Fidelity's ETF on a traditional stocks brokerage platform. While not the worse idea, you'd be buying a derivative of Bitcoin that's managed by a big bank. In other words, you'd be doing the exact thing Bitcoin was built to avoid: Trust some large entity to hold your assets for you. It's more convenient and it can be invested in a tax-sheltered account, but ultimately, it is not Bitcoin you're buying. It is an asset that's largely managed in an opaque manner, that you cannot verify. If the bankers engage in their typical, creative shenanigans, you might end up empty-handed, and it's all regulated, so forget about the libertarian tenets. If the government wants your asset, it's theirs. I mean it's safe, probably... But self-custody BTC is an even greater contributor to sleep quality than ETF BTC.
It’s gonna push more people into the ETF’s
I have to say that the recent hacks out there had made many fearful of doing self custody. Many will just go with ETF’s. They would rather put their trust in an institution that knows how to custody trillions of dollars of investor funds rather than trusting some cold storage device made in Europe. Because when your funds get hacked will your town’s keystone cops track down the ones who stole your shit? Or would you rather trust that a multibillion dollar institution would have the resources to recover stolen funds and hopefully you can recover those losses.
Which wallet? Never mind Buy ETF, it's safer
I like the ETF because I can buy it in my Tax free savings account (Canada). So I do both
"The holders cant be bunch of computer geeks whose ability to secure the private key is endless, it needs to be working class people, moms, dads, and grandparents whose ability to use credit card and cash needs to suffice in the realm of bitcoin security and transaction." for those people, as much as I don't like to say it, an ETF would be the best solution. The ETFs are the most easy solution for most people that are not much into tech. If you have enough time and WANT to self custody, then there are several solutions you can look into, like cold wallets. A good idea would be to always diversify your holdings. Maybe some in cold storage from different vendors, some in etf, some in custody at a third party... If you have the time and patience, just split up your bitcoin into 5-6 different places where you hold them. So if one place would fail, you would not lose everything.