ETF

mrtrollmaster

I lump summed into BTC for the first time in my life at $60k. I’ve never understood the personal storage and security side well enough to jump in, but I bought in through an ETF in July cause I liked the $60 price point.

yefuck

There’s crypto IRA’s on the market now just FYI. If lazy and don’t want to go that far just go MSTR or ASST or any of the ETF proxies but I’d rather a DAT with no expense ratio and sats per share increasing not dwindling down.

Jenn2895

I would do $75 $Btc, $75 $Eth, $150 $Link & $100 in an ETF like $VOO

BroadRecipe7225

Put it into an ETF and profit without worrys!

MoccaLG

Step 1.) Everytime when BTC gets a dropdown - Buy some. 2.) But with 400 right now, ETF - world and wait for the tech stock to crash than buy em

TheresNoSecondBest

We all are "normal" people around here, mate. Some more then others. Perhaps you have cashapp too. That's IMHO a better option. There's also Strike, mentioned in the comments. Conbase and Kraken might be overwhelming. Talking about overwhelming, have a look at this guide: Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

tobypassquarant

Sell. Sell. Sell. Get rid of it. Sell it all. If you want BTC, buy the ETF. But do not hold any bitcoin. Or crypto. Don't. They're onto you. And they WILL lock you down and DESTROY YOUR SOUL. THE MIGHTY, GREAT, EVIL OVERLORDS COMMAND YOU TO SELL!!!!

thetimsterr

I used to have half in ETF and half cold wallet, but after the Coldcard debaco, I'm now half exchange and half ETF. If it weren't for tax implications of selling on the exchange, I'd be 100% in ETF. The self-custody thing is cool and all, but Coldcard really soured me on it. I'd rather offload that risk for the small fee that an ETF charges.

ipalvr

I wish I could convert to an ETF like the “Authorized Participants” and avoid capital gains.

csever31

I used to keep it all on a hardware wallet, but I moved everything to ETF because of my wife and kids.

sylsau

**They didn’t ban Bitcoin. That wo**uld have been too loud. Instead, they did something much worse: they quietly hijacked the exits. For 15 years, we’ve been told that crypto is the ultimate "permissionless" money. Un-censorable. Un-freezable. But while everyone was distracted by ETF approvals and bull market charts, Washington built a silent, permanent kill switch for the entire industry. * $475M frozen by a private stablecoin company without a single court order. * An entire nation's digital asset sector blacklisted by one unelected official's pen stroke. * Software developers treated like enemy combatants simply for writing open-source code. They used the sanctions war on Iran as the perfect Trojan horse to test the machinery. Nobody objected, because the target was a pariah state. But the beta test is over, the precedents are set, and the weapon they built was filed away for immediate reuse. **If you still think your Bitcoin is untouchable, you are missing the biggest heist in modern financial history. The trap has already snapped shut.**

Electrical_Chard3255

Not being defensive we are talking about two different things, So what I have built is for a crytpo wallet not an ETF, and everything else is simple, not sure if you looked at the page and the documentation, but an heir has everything they need when they need it, the two halves, and a bit of paper. I give my three sons a blue half each, my solicitor gets the red half, as do I, and possibly a trusted friend, who has no idea what it is, or its stored on a dead mans switch, or in a safety deposit box. I do get your point about ETF's, but not everybody wants an ETF, some countries dont support them, the good lawyer is for both cases, and the saved time is 45 minutes of creating and splitting a seed. Which you control all the way. Its just another string to a bow

TakingChances01

It kind of is though. No need to be so defensive. ETF’s are an easy process for an heir, and probably a good option for many that may otherwise lose their coin via scams, compromised seed phrases, software exploits. Etc.

Abject-Stretch-1187

Dude responded like he knew wtf he was talking about lol These are the bears we're dealing with. Imagine thinking ETF holders give a shit about a final bottom especially when the asset ETF holders want to buy is already 50% down from ATH. Retail investors can sometimes be a special type of stupid, they've grown accustomed to massive drops that they forget to realize when they're being overly greedy. They forget to factor in landscape changes like ETF buyers buying at a 50% discount while them(the retail investors) naively assume that the cycle theory will hold just for them like they genuinely believe they solely have control over BTC's price movement.

Cautious-Lecture-858

It’s mind blowing to me why would anyone hold actual tokens instead of an ETF derivative from a reputable financial institution.

CryptoDeepDive

If you don't know wtf you are doing, just buy and hold Bitcoin or Eth on an exchange or an ETF. Ffa

AutoModerator

Post is by: T_sauce9112 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wkqzuq/ive_been_trying_to_break_my_btc_thesis_since/ Since apparently using AI for research means you just typed “is BTC going down?” into ChatGPT and copied the answer This comes as result of being mocked and ridiculed and taken down for my methods, so here is the complete break down. This analysis didn't start yesterday. I've been building it since August. At this point I've probably used around 250 prompts researching it, questioning it, changing it and trying to break it. It originally started with me questioning whether the bottom was actually in and whether everyone calling for straight up was getting ahead of themselves. From there it turned into looking at the 4 year cycle, previous BTC corrections, left/right translated cycles, Elliott structure, RSI divergences across multiple timeframes, moving averages, Bollinger bands, volume, support/resistance and what previous BTC bottoms actually looked like. Then I started tying macro into it. Fed policy, rate expectations, 2Y/10Y yields, inflation, jobs, oil, diesel/crack spreads, Japan/BOJ and the carry trade, VIX, credit spreads and what normally starts breaking BEFORE risk assets really get hit. Then ETFs and positioning. ETF inflows/outflows, OI, funding, longs vs shorts, liquidation levels, CME gaps, Coinbase premium, spot vs perp activity, CVD, whale activity and on-chain buying/selling. I wasn't just asking AI to prove me right either. A huge amount of the prompts were basically me saying attack this, find out why I'm wrong, find the bullish argument, look for something we're missing, compare it to previous cycles, check another market, check another timeframe, rerun the numbers. That's how the thesis kept evolving. And that's exactly why I started questioning this latest giant green candle. BTC broke down to around 74.8k and instead of continuing lower it completely reversed and eventually ripped from around 77k to 81k+. So instead of saying “well I'm bearish so the pump must be fake,” we dug into what actually happened. Around $178M in BTC shorts got liquidated compared to only around $8M in longs. One of the biggest hours had roughly $171M in liquidations with around 95% being shorts. Futures OI jumped from around $51.2B to $56.4B in a day. Large Binance perp trades showed around $5.71B aggressive buying vs $5.15B selling. Coinbase premium was negative around -9.5bps while offshore derivatives were heavily involved. And BTC basically ran through liquidation levels from 78k, 79k, 80k and into 81k before stopping right under the same 82k area we've been watching. Then volume dried up. That doesn't prove manipulation. I can't tell you who pressed the first buy button or what their intentions were. But it definitely gives me a reason to question everyone looking at one giant green candle and automatically calling it organic bullish demand. That's how I've been using AI. Not “tell me what to think.” More like having a research assistant that I can ask 200 follow up questions, make it check another market, AT LIGHTNING SPEED, attack my argument, compare historical data, look underneath price action and then change the thesis when something doesn't make sense. If you disagree with the analysis that's perfectly fine. Give me the data and I'll look at it. But “you used AI” isn't a counterargument. TLDR: What's actually on the table now? 82-85k is still the major resistance area I've been watching. If BTC rejects up here and loses 80k, then 78k/77k, I'm watching 75k again. But another wick to 74-75k isn't enough anymore. We've already seen BTC do that and rip all the way back. For the real bearish confirmation I want to see BTC break 74-75k, fail to reclaim it and actually ACCEPT below it. Then I'm looking at 72k-70k, and if 70k fails the deeper target is still 65-68k. The other side is simple too. If BTC breaks through 82-85k, holds it, retests it and buyers actually defend it as support, then my bearish thesis is in trouble. Sustained acceptance above 85k and I have to admit the setup I was looking for didn't happen. Until one of those things happens I think BTC is basically fighting inside a giant 75k to 82-85k range. I'm not pretending I know which side wins. I'm using every tool available to me to figure it out before everyone else does. Thats what the institutions do... *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

T_sauce9112

Respectfully resident dimwitted. U would can't even fathoms how my promts going my LLMs. Ur head would explode. Hers an example hey chat bot howamy promtd did I use to gather this information in this anaylsis? This wasn't one AI prompt lol. This was built over several weeks and roughly 200 prompts. We started with a simple 70k retracement thesis, then stress tested it against TA, RSI divergences, volume, OI/liquidations, ETF/on-chain flows, rates, credit, oil, Fed/BOJ policy and macro data. We constantly looked for evidence that could invalidate the thesis, challenged our own assumptions and adjusted probabilities as new data came in instead of just looking for reasons to confirm it. 🤡 ass...

Legitimate_Cry_5194

They might come from an alien civilization, from ETF's, from spot, from short liquidations, the only thing certain is that there are more buyers than sellers.

neo-caridina

Pushed by VCs, ETF introduction last month, Bitcoiners diversifity for quantum and privacy woes but still want a hard cap with similar supply I guess. Zcash has a checkered past with original trusted setup, dev tax, not-by-default privacy, recent inflation bug, and murky ties to US and Israeli governments.

creative_usr_name

Google inactive account manager as my "deadmans switch". Provides the info that my heir doesn't already have along with instructions. Or you could just convert to ETF and then inheritance is easy.

AutoModerator

Post is by: No1worldchamp and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/litecoin/comments/1wkdfn2/could_litecoin_replicate_a_similar_move_to_zcash/ **I have just been looking into this and going through Ai also to see what similarities Litecoin has to Zcash.** **Strong similarities between LTC now and ZEC before it started to move.** **Both are old, established proof-of-work cryptocurrencies.** Zcash launched in 2016; Litecoin goes back to 2011. Neither needed to prove it could survive an entire crypto cycle. **Both spent years far below previous highs.** LTC is currently around **$58.84**, roughly **86% below its $410.26 ATH**. **ZEC was similarly neglected immediately before its move.** It was about **$74 on 30 September 2025** before reaching approximately **$734 on 7 November** — nearly a **10× move in roughly six weeks**. **Both have fixed maximum supplies.** Litecoin’s maximum is **84m LTC**; approximately **77.6m are already circulating**, so more than 92% of the eventual maximum supply already exists. **Both use declining PoW issuance.** ZEC’s November 2024 halving reduced issuance before its enormous 2025 move; Coinbase specifically identified lower issuance as one of ZEC’s supportive structural factors. **Litecoin has the same type of future supply event approaching.** Its next halving will reduce its block reward again in 2027. That’s potentially important if demand increases at approximately the same time. **Both have privacy functionality.** Privacy was central to ZEC’s repricing. Litecoin isn’t primarily a privacy coin, but MWEB gives it optional confidential transaction functionality. The narrative isn’t remotely as powerful yet, but the underlying feature exists. **Both can benefit from “old coin rediscovery.”** CoinDesk specifically described the 2025 privacy move as capital rotating back toward themes associated with the 2017–18 era. **LTC already has very broad liquidity/exchange availability.** That’s important because if interest suddenly returns, investors don’t have to wait for major exchanges to list it. **LTC now has something ZEC didn’t have in exactly the same form: a US spot ETF.** Canary’s spot Litecoin ETF, LTCC, began trading on Nasdaq in October 2025 and physically holds LTC. With Litecoins market cap currently sat at only 4.5Bn it looks interesting to me along with the 2027 halving on the way. This is NFA and just a comparison of the two before Zcash moved. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

RelievedFrigate

Man, this is the take I keep coming back to. Everyone's hunting for the one killer app or the one ETF that flips the switch, but it might just be a slow, boring grind over a decade. Adoption probably looks more like Venmo integrating it than some flashy new chain dropping.

TheresNoSecondBest

Also, read this, mate. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

Coininator

So why ETF demand then?

colemusic1

There has been a significant amount of things that have changed. IBIT is genuinely no speculative BTC ETF anymore. It’s got $100B+ in assets, and we have live data now that is showing us how much inflows/outflows is happening intraday. And that’s a huge deal. And that doesn’t mean cycles don’t matter, they still do. But what it does mean is we don’t have any data on how cycles can/will run when this has only been happening since 2024. ETHA (ETH ETF) is also attracting a significant amount more inflows lately, and they even have ZEC on there now too. This is a big deal for BTC specifically though because it exposes BTC to millions of more investors who otherwise don’t own a crypto exchange account and maybe don’t want to. They simply just login to their brokerage platform, buy some IBIT and call it a day. If you want to know how significant this genuinely is right now from live readings of the top 5 most actively traded stocks / ETF’s: • IBIT (spot BTC) • BITO (BTC futures) • NVDA • INTC • SPCX

travelling_ok

SEC regulatory news + renewed ETF demand + large short squeeze

StretchOk7441

Look how many times BTC has tested $80K. The longer an asset consolidates beneath major resistance, the more explosive the eventual breakout can be. We saw something similar after the ETF approvals: BTC traded sideways for months while Germany sold its stack, then nearly doubled within weeks once the range finally broke. Patience is key. Timing the breakout is impossible, but the market increasingly looks positioned for a move higher sooner rather than later.

moralcilantro_8951

Price action has been coiling for weeks now, every time it looks ready to go it just chops around and fades. The setup is there though, you're right about the catalysts being mostly cleared. ETF flows have been the real story for a while now, that's not going away. I just want to see it actually close above the range high on a daily before I get too excited, too many fakeouts this year. That said, if it does break I don't think it stops for a while.

Tjscully1

Was there an insane amount of ETF inflows at the opening bell??

LucaRossi0

Spot on. People don't realize that ETF inflows + halving + zero exchange liquidity = a violent supply shock. $78k is literally just the loading screen.

fan_of_hakiksexydays

There's definitely some good reasons for ZEC to pump, but you guys should definitely look at the reasons why ZEC is pumping before jumping in. It's not so much that the news is about anything that exceptional, despite bagholders now trying to call it the "invisible Bitcoin" lol. It's a lot of your typical alt coin news and "partnerships", governance voting, someone famous mentioning ZEC, VC and funds who put money into it, etc...except that it all came out at once. One of the main tech reasons is that the network upgrade should now fix the major security issues, and reduce the block time. So it's not so much that it's doing something exceptional or groundbreaking, it's just that it won't be as shitty. But ultimately the big reason is the ETF. Even in 2026 crypto ETFs are still a big deal. An alt coin getting an ETF is still gonna create a major pump. Whether the pump can sustain is another story. We've seen what happened to ETH, SOL, XRP, ADA, BNB, LINK, etc...

Subject-Chest-8343

One difference it makes is that people can hold the ETF in a Roth account, then move to and from the sidelines many times without creating a crapton of taxable events.

kick-me-in-the-jimmy

Democrats are going to be less kind, but still get more done for the space than Republicans. We had a hostile admin and still got ETF's. We have a supportive admin now and everything is stalled. The old guard on the Dems side are dying and retiring. The next batch won't be hostile to new technology. This industry cut off its face to spite its nose by funneling money to Republicans. Yesterday was confirmation that it was wasted time.

Ok-Refrigerator7284

Anybody talking trash right now is CRAZY!! This could go either way; big crash or big jump...or what is very possible is that all the ETF influence will keep BTC moving in a narrow sideways range for years and years!! That will also be a big "lose" for most BTC investors. SO NOBODY better get cocky or they could really end up looking foolish!!

Forded_Fiction24

I have a bit everywhere. Coinbase, Strike, Robinhood, within my Fidelity Roth IRA in the form of ETF's and also in my brokerage in the same fashion. Then last but not least, yes I have a hardware wallet as well and self-custody a good portion. I never have moved laterally from one exchange to the other and have only moved from an exchange to a hardware wallet and back

Aromatic-Yellow1100

Maybe a massive ETF selloff....that might do it

DifficultSquash1517

Never Your keys. Not your crypto Two letters: ETF

fan_of_hakiksexydays

0.25 isn't gonna do more than a dent. It's not a major game changer. So yea, it was never gonna be that impactful. Plus, with most of retail gone, low volume, dropping of net ETF inflow since early 2026, perps and whales are in the driving seat now. But more hikes in the future could really start to have a negative impact on the liquidity for the crypto market. And this is a market much more susceptible to liquidity. I think short run we still go up a bit, but probably liquidity is gonna have an impact sooner or later.

JDT3

Every big headline turns into the same chart: huge spike in sentiment, huge spike in volume, then a flat line where DCA people quietly keep buying. Folks who seem the least stressed are usually the ones who decided on DCA rules once and stopped trying to have a hot take on every bill, rate hike or ETF rumor.

TheresNoSecondBest

Is this a good time to plant a tree? That's how your question sounds to me, mate. Anyway, congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

feng_sg

You're solving the wrong problem. A dual-key split changes who signs templates but doesn't touch the actual governance layer, which is whether economically significant nodes orphan non-conforming blocks. ETF and custodian concentration weakens exactly that enforcement mechanism, and your proposal leaves it untouched.

TheresNoSecondBest

>I challenge this by asking you to consider the role that ETFs play in BTC now. 2017 was a different crowd. The ones running the largest transacting nodes (ETF operators/custodians) will have the sway that the node runners in the BlockSize wars had. They also happen to be larger, centralized, and in some cases, more traditional organizations. There is higher probability of collusion between those and mining companies. And the further we go down this path, the worse this gets. Again, mate. Please, read the book. The ETF custodians can't unilaterally change consensus rules any more than miners could in 2017. Can they influence? Sure. But no more then Bitmain, Bitcpay, Bitcoin.com, Conbase, Xapo, Kraken, Bitfinex, Huobi, BTCC or OKcoin in 2017. These were massive names in the space at that time and they all were against segwit or at least leaned towards the big blocks while pretending/staying neutral. >This is interesting. Wasn't Satoshi's vision that the longest chain would prevail as the chain of choice and be the "turing test" on which is the legitimate chain? Seems to be debate on this topic within the community... The quote is: "It is strictly necessary that the longest chain is always considered the valid one. Nodes that were present may remember that one branch was there first and got replaced by another, but there would be no way for them to convince those who were not present of this. We can't have subfactions of nodes that cling to one branch that they think was first, others that saw another branch first, and others that joined later and never saw what happened. "The CPU power proof-of-work vote must have the final say". The only way for everyone to stay on the same page is to believe that the longest chain is always the valid one, no matter what." What Satoshi IMHO meant, is that the most work decides in a case of a split. Pay attention, this is the reason why miners are important. Bcashers had to manually reduce the difficulty, otherwise they would end up in the same boat, Luke was. Too much power needed to mine a shitcoin that is worth almost zero dollars. That's why the number of their blocks is higher than Bitcoin blocks. They have about 0.5% of Bitcoin's hashrate so the amount of work on that shitcoin is considerably smaller than on BTC. Anyway, not only the number of blocks or how much work has been done counts, the social consensus is important too. That's why I'm honestly not worrying about ETFs colluding with some miners. In the end, it's the rest of the world that matters. >I'd ask that you stop contrasting with "lukecoin". I never mentioned it in my original post and I certainly didn't say that it is more secure. I made it clear that that's not what I support. It's not adding anything to the discussion. Exchaning cultish propaganda isn't debate. The issue is, you're just repeating their talking points. It's obviously not your fault, you've been fed this from their channels, it's just hard not to see it. >I'm here to discuss reality and how to make BTC beter for everyone. Anyways, security is relative. So while BTC may still be secure relative to it's competitors right now. Does that make it more secure in absolute terms? In absolute terms there is a long ways to go as far as decentralization. That's all OK, you're just coming here with ridiculous claims while the truth is somewhere else. Perhaps more learning and less of trying to change Bitcoin would be a better approach. >One entity (Foundry) having a vote over 1/4 of the network is not decentralization, and as long as the ability for this to exist does exist, on a long enough time frame, it will occur. One pool doesn't mean one miner. We have already been here, mate. >This is why we must explore how to close this vulnerability so that it's not ultimately exploited one day. We cannot assume that the incentives of those with the most network influence (mining rigs, energy, and $$ coming into their ETFs), are aligned with those of you and me. There is nothing concrete that says this will be the case. Every miner, every ETF, every energy company is here to make money. They won't make much of money, by trying to attack Bitcoin because the outcome is known already now. >Don't trust, verify, remember? Sorry mate but you didn't verify the majority of your claims. Perhaps start there. Again, I'm not trying to attack you, but consider to visit r/BitcoinBeginners and learn BEFORE coming here with a plan how to change Bitcoin.

xaviemb

I guess institutions will just have to use Bitcoin (GENIUS Act and ETF regs) now instead of all those 'crypto' copy cats. CLARITY not passing is going to surprise people the other way with Bitcoin dominance. We're just shaking out those who don't understand this...

Crypt0sNews

There's a useful distinction that every one of these regulatory cycles seems to bury: laws act on the on-ramps, not on the protocol. BitLicense in 2015, the exchange licensing regimes, the ETF approvals and their custody rules — all of them changed how people access bitcoin; none of them changed bitcoin. The issuance schedule doesn't read legislation, and finality doesn't check jurisdiction. So the OP's framing mostly holds, with one amendment: ignore the noise, but don't ignore the access layer. The risk was never that a bill rewrites the money. It's that your particular ramp into it gets narrower. Plan around that, and the rest is the same movie with different extras.

SwapzoneIO

We wouldn’t call this outright bullish yet. I’d describe it as relative strength. ETF outflows are clearly selling pressure, but the more important question is how BTC reacts to that pressure. If BTC continues holding around $76K–$79K despite those outflows, it suggests there is still enough demand elsewhere to absorb the selling. That said, we wouldn’t read too much into the current stability on its own. For us, $80K is the level to watch. A clean reclaim and hold above it would be a much stronger confirmation of demand. If BTC keeps getting rejected there, the current range could still turn into another move lower. So rather than looking at ETF flows in isolation, we’d focus on the relationship between selling pressure and price reaction. That gives a better picture of whether the market is actually absorbing supply or simply consolidating before the next move

Previous_Valuable873

All I am saying is if all the ETF, shilling, clarity act etc BTC can do only this much now, when everyone is shilling it, then when the AI bubble pops because you can bet your farty asses it'll, decreasing the USD 25% plus purchasing power minimum, plus global recession.... sub10k even

NiceInflation2483

Quiet Bitcoin is honestly where I find the market more interesting because everyone stops reacting to every candle and you can actually look at what is happening underneath. I would keep an eye on ETF flows, liquidity, hash rate and the rate environment rather than trying to call the exact cycle bottom from the calendar. Something like moon could come in handy for putting those pieces next to BTC and seeing which relationships are actually holding in this cycle. If Bitcoin continues absorbing bad macro days without making new lows, that would get my attention more than another random green candle.

sylsau

**Bitcoin could become more valuable—and still struggle to pay its miners.** Cheaper transactions. Better scaling. More Lightning payments. All worth celebrating. **But as the block subsidy shrinks, transaction fees are expected to fund more of Bitcoin’s security.** And more adoption doesn’t automatically mean more fee revenue. An ETF share can trade without moving bitcoin. Thousands of payments can share a single settlement. Scaling can strengthen the economics—if enough new demand follows. **That’s Bitcoin’s 21 million paradox: how do we keep payments affordable, miners funded, and the monetary promise intact?** The supply is capped. The security bill keeps coming.

TwinWake

I trade bitcoin spot without fees to avoid liquidity run because of leverage. Only trending strategy. I would trade some tokenized ETF too.

AutoModerator

Post is by: faisal_yk26 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wggum4/sgx_cleared_by_cftc_to_offer_btc_and_eth/ Singapore Exchange has received CFTC approval to offer Bitcoin and Ether perpetual futures to US institutions. Perps have been an offshore product for US institutions up to now. Regulated access changes who can use them, and perps are where most of the leverage and price discovery in crypto actually happens. Funding rates on a venue US institutions can legally touch is a different market structure than what we have had. Worth separating this from the CLARITY Act noise this week. That is a pending vote with an unknown outcome. This is a regulator that already granted something. Curious whether people think institutional perp access matters more or less than spot ETF flows did. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

archm1chael

To answer your first question. Last cycle we had rumours of a BTC ETF, and then the actual ETF listings. Both the rumours and the listings had associated upward pa. I see pretty clear parallels with the clarity act.

AutoModerator

Post is by: _SG9 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wgeacz/i_track_perpetual_open_interest_across_four/ Method first, so you can pull it apart: I read the four venues' open interest and funding at each UTC close (Binance, Bybit, Hyperliquid, OKX) and rank the ETH/BTC ratio against its own 73-session window; ETF flows come from the daily fund files; correlations run over 969 pairs of daily closes. At the September 12 close, 23:59:01 UTC, ETH perpetual open interest was $11.910bn against Bitcoin's $16.971bn. That is 70.18%, rank 1 of the 73 complete sessions since July 3, against a window median of 60.9% and a minimum of 54.4%. It happened on every venue. Between the September 4 and September 12 closes ETH open interest rose 6.1% on Binance, 7.0% on Bybit, 12.1% on Hyperliquid and 9.6% on OKX, while Bitcoin fell 7.1%, 6.5%, 6.3% and 3.1% on the same four. It is also not a price artifact: ETH/BTC rose 6.0% over those eight days while the ratio rose 15.3%, and the dollar size of the Bitcoin book shrank outright. Against the underlying asset the ETH book is 3.888% of a $306.3bn market capitalisation and Bitcoin's is 1.086% of $1,562.2bn, so ETH's is 3.6 times as large relative to its own coin. Funding did not follow. Open-interest-weighted ETH funding closed September 13 at 0.005941% per eight hours, about 6.5% a year, against a 31-day median of 0.005682%, the 53rd percentile. That is an ordinary carry cost, and nobody is paying a premium to be long the perpetual, which is what a short perpetual leg inside a delta-neutral carry book looks like from the outside. The ETH spot ETFs took $189.3M on CPI day, 1.54% of $12.28bn in assets, the cash leg such a book needs. Bitcoin's funds went the opposite way, minus $482.4M over four sessions, 0.5% of $93.58bn. Where I would argue against myself: \- Open interest reports size and never side, so a directional crowd cannot be ruled out, only priced. One that wanted the exposure badly would normally bid funding above its median. \- 73 sessions is the whole claim. My constant window starts July 3, when the venue count went from three to four. \- ETH's 30-day correlation to QQQ is plus 0.012 against a 0.476 trailing 252-day baseline, the 1.28th percentile of 548 days, and to the dollar index minus 0.622. Out of a 969-pair scan roughly ten first-percentile hits are chance alone; the cluster means survive that better, 132 crypto against US equity pairs averaging 0.105 and 22 crypto against dollar pairs averaging minus 0.402, both the 3.6th percentile. \- Friday's CPI print cuts against the dollar-channel reading. In the 60 minutes after the 12:30 UTC release Bitcoin rose 0.85%, gold rose 1.27% and the dollar index fell 0.11%, a dollar-weakness reaction. \- Nearly half of the raw ETH exchange-inflow tape over the last four weeks, 47.7%, is one address depositing every day. Every figure above excludes it. Polymarket and Kalshi both read 79.5% for a 25bp hike on Wednesday, stamped 12:58 UTC today. data + full method: [https://kresmion.com/daily-brief/2026-09-14](https://kresmion.com/daily-brief/2026-09-14) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

colemusic1

If there’s one extra thing you would like to understand from a finance perspective too; “not your keys, not your coins” applies to spot buying, but not spot ETF buying. What I mean by that is if you buy BTC via an exchange (such as coinbase, kraken pro, binance, CoinSpot etc), then yes there is custodial risk and therefore best to be kept in a wallet where you know your own seed phrase kept on paper. But you also do not need to have seed phrases if you’re buying bitcoin ETF’s, such as IBIT on brokerage platforms like IBKR. There’s roughly $100b+ in bitcoin based ETF’s which is pretty huge. And the reason I’m noting that is that some people just don’t want to have to bother with exchanges or wallets, so they settle for something they can buy directly on a brokerage platform where custodial risk doesn’t exist. It’s becoming increasingly popular among Wall Street to go this route

LowEggplant7207

Having low volatility after a massive upswing with all the ETF’s involved signals stability at these levels. The early players to the ETF’s have made good money from the last cycle and now it’s time for round Two. 100k does not seem too far away.

Ok_Application6123

Just buy the ETF

Possible-Magazine23

ETF

chente08

Always been a cold wallet guy but at this point, ETF

Romanizer

If you have to ask: ETF. At least until your bank offers insured custody.

colemusic1

I’m watching purely: \- macro \- current bidding zones (seems roughly $76k) \- current resistance / rejection zones (currently about $82.5k - $83k) \- alt market behaviour \- data from net inflows/outflows of BTC ETF’s on brokerage platforms Macro is genuinely the biggest catalyst happening right now. With US10Y basically at 5%, oil futures now > $100/BLL, and DXY that had loosened but became a little tighter again, we’ve essentially got the worst setup possible for high beta assets like crypto or tech stocks. As for when I think the bottom is coming in? No one knows if it’s already happened this cycle or if we may see BTC completely unwind before the end of this year. But I personally doubt we’ll be heading back to < $60k levels based on the two leg downs we’ve had this year. Institutional spot buying via ETF’s is compressing price action and there is a ridiculously large amount of buying demand still existing in the mid $70k’s, so imagine the buying demand around $70k let alone $65k

sylsau

**Wall Street wants you to believe the Bitcoin four-year cycle is dead.** Corporate executives are promising a smooth, infinite "supercycle" to $400,000. Why? Because if you believe the price is going up in a straight line, you will never take profits, you will leverage up, and—most importantly—you will leave your wealth inside their custodial vaults where they can harvest your fees. **The brutal truth:** 1. The halving is no longer driving the market—the global fiat debt spiral is. 2. Institutional "Paper Bitcoin" and basis trades are designed to suppress parabolic upside. 3. A $400,000 Bitcoin doesn't mean infinite purchasing power; it means the dollar has collapsed. **Stop playing Wall Street's game. If your sats are sitting in an ETF or an exchange, you don't own Bitcoin—you own a corporate IOU.** **Are you holding your own keys, or are you financing the corporate supercycle? Let’s discuss.**

AutoModerator

Post is by: sylsau and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: https://inbitcoinwetrust.substack.com/p/the-400000-mirage-why-coinbase-wants **Wall Street wants you to believe the Bitcoin four-year cycle is dead.** Corporate executives are promising a smooth, infinite "supercycle" to $400,000. Why? Because if you believe the price is going up in a straight line, you will never take profits, you will leverage up, and—most importantly—you will leave your wealth inside their custodial vaults where they can harvest your fees. **The brutal truth:** 1. The halving is no longer driving the market—the global fiat debt spiral is. 2. Institutional "Paper Bitcoin" and basis trades are designed to suppress parabolic upside. 3. A $400,000 Bitcoin doesn't mean infinite purchasing power; it means the dollar has collapsed. **Stop playing Wall Street's game. If your sats are sitting in an ETF or an exchange, you don't own Bitcoin—you own a corporate IOU.** **Are you holding your own keys, or are you financing the corporate supercycle?** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Jiecut

Interesting yet, HISA ETF deposits are treated differently from regular deposits.

devCheckingIn

All ETF outflows this week. Maybe we'll do better next week, but clearly the momentum trade has stalled for now. I'm sure there will be a lot of volatility up to and including the Fed decision Wednesday.

Vegas_42

My 71 yo mother asked me to sell all of her Bitcoin ETF, because the world is not getting better anytime soon and it's all going south from here. -> Bottom confirmed.

Witty-Internet-8708

Use CoinGecko or CoinMarketCap for a quick dashboard, then use TradingView when you need charts. The important part is deciding what “movement” means: price change, volume, performance versus BTC, or derivatives activity can tell very different stories. For any headline that might affect a trade, trace it to the original source before reacting. Check the issuer or protocol announcement, exchange notice, SEC or CFTC release, or status page instead of relying on a screenshot or summary. Then compare the event with spot price, volume, open interest, funding rates, and ETF flows where relevant. Save the headline, timestamp, source, and your interpretation in a notes file. A news event is information, not automatically a buy or sell signal.

CreamAcceptable3585

Right now you still have the option to store Bitcoin off chain. so it's not entirely controlled by any agency no one can control your Bitcoin besides you. If you're using an ETF the security offered by the fcc may be appealing to some people and could actually cause more interest. The real issue is that ETF accounts don't actually hold the owned btc one to one. On another note having the ability to send btc peer to peer, only paying the lightning fee, or whatever transfer service you prefer is one of the core aspects of btc (imo) if that changes and you have to use some sort of government approved corporate tracked, transfer service then I would agree intervention is necessar. But as long as btc works like cash and you can trade it between two users without big brother watching, I don't think it's a problem.

zerg_001

I appreciate the ETF liquidity and I can use my regular broker. I don't have to deal with exchange risk.

OkLaw1527

so you think the bitboxer is better? i actually own a bitbox but i never used it and acutally sent btc there 😄 iam currently borrowing my btc for defi 50% and other 50% i have at a regulated broker in ETF/EPTs lol

TheresNoSecondBest

>What are some tips for determining when to sell my bitcoin? **No Neo. When you're ready, you won't have to.** Don't worry, mate. You'll understand it later. >What is the best platform for Australian investors? IIRC, there used to be Amber. If you can get Strike, even better. Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **Good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (**air-gapped**) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is **not air-gapped**. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better build. I would go stateless instead of using their servers. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. There's also ColdCard, great features but recently had a massive duckup, I would wait until all of their code is fully open source, preferably rewritten by the community before touching it. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

ubermensch1001

He isn't the only one, there were several other posters on here that were arguing with me about this. This was a reply I made to another poster more or less arguing with me about the same thing pertaining to buying ETH vs. ADA right now. "Let's say we go into 2027; the market is starting to get into a bullish environment and BTC is trading at 90k+. Let's say ETH at this point is trading at 4k, so a little over a 50% move from here. What do you think would happen with the rest of the alts? In this environment, do you see ADA at best matching ETH's performance by only being at 30 cents? Very short term price action is impossible to predict and pointless. For instance, in the fall of 2024 ADA was trading around 35 cents while ETH was at a similar price to where we are currently, about $2400. After the 2024 election hype ADA traded as high as $1.30 while ETH peaked at about 4k. I'll use XLM as an example from that same time period. Right before the election it was trading around 10 cents and then climbed above 50 cents at it's peak, so a 5x. A weak example would be LTC, it was around $65 and peaked at a little over $100 in this same time period. Another one is Bcash, both of these had very little price movement for years leading up to this, at least relative to the rest of the alts out there. The whole point is that when we do get bullish phases with alts, ETH leads and many of the alts with smaller market caps will OUTPERFORM it. IF someone were looking to do this, they need to be able to identify the correct time to be buying. I'm not saying people should do this, the point is that when ETH pops hard relative to BTC the broader alt coin market follows along even stronger. It has nothing to do with fundamentals of the coin lol. If you aren't aware, virtually all alts, including ETH, are primarily driven by hype and speculation. Picking the horse that runs the fastest is honestly going to come down to luck. What is NOT luck is identifying when these alts are low and where they could be making large gains for profit. What you are seeing now is NOT a bullish phase in the market, it's a bear market rally. This is not the same as the Q1 2024 ETF pump, the Q4 election pump or the spring 2021 alt season. When this occurs again, and it will, you will see what I'm describing here play out."

Hot_Arm3894

Hey everyone, thanks for the feedback, based on your suggestions and the massive ETF/institutional shifts, I completely pivoted the script. I dropped the general altcoin rotation and focused 100% on a Pure BTC Accumulation model. It filters out retail noise much better. Just launched a reports channel today!

IAmFitzRoy

Check again this post. This guy is an example of how really really FAR we are. Do you think this guy knows what IBIT IBKR or ETF is? Don’t kid yourself, the average people will never adopt Bitcoin the way it is right now.

colemusic1

That’s because there **literally is a way to buy it and hold it safely.** IBIT exists for a reason, and owns more than 60% of all BTC ETF assets. So you can literally open a brokerage account on IBKR, buy some IBIT and never have to worry about being scammed, custodial risk or literally anything that this kind of shit can cause. That’s why IBIT is pulling in 30M - 50M of daily trading volume and that’s genuinely enormous

colemusic1

Sheepish isn’t it? I don’t even really see anyone talk about how enormously adopted BTC based ETF’s are becoming (the big three brokerage platforms as well as IBKR). So you’re completely correct that there’s genuine ways now to avoid custodial risk or being scammed. People just aren’t aware of this because they tend to look at only the data coming in from exchanges lol

colemusic1

The other comment by TheRadishBros is actually genuinely correct here. It actually absolutely can and IS becoming mass adopted via brokerage platforms like IBKR. IBIT is one of the most frequently traded BTC based ETF’s on the market, and data proves it. And unlike buying spot BTC through binance, kraken pro, CoinSpot, Coinbase etc, it’s actually completely regulated and safeguarded for this reason. Buying IBIT or other BTC based ETF’s is genuinely the safest way you can possibly purchase BTC if you want to avoid custodial risk and/or scams.

PuzzleheadedHuman

Worth separating two things that are both true here, because the thread is treating it as one. First, this isn't the thin-book manufactured pump you see on a microcap - ZEC is a genuinely liquid large-cap traded across the major venues, so the move is real flow hitting a real book, not a few wallets round-tripping a shallow pool to paint a chart. That rules out the "it's all fake" read. But real flow and sustainable aren't the same thing. The two drivers you named are different animals. New market access (the ETF a few people mentioned) is structural, sticky demand - if it's real it doesn't unwind the moment price stalls. Short liquidations are the opposite: mechanical, one-time fuel that exists only until the shorts are gone, and then the bid it created just disappears. A 5x move with liquidations "adding fuel" is almost always both at once, a genuine catalyst amplified by a squeeze, and the whole "breakout or overheated" question is really "how much of this was the structural bid versus the forced buying." The clean test, and it's checkable rather than a vibe: watch funding and price together once the liquidation cascade is done. If funding comes back toward normal and price holds the level, spot demand is carrying it and it's a breakout that can consolidate. If funding stays pinned at an extreme while price bleeds, the squeeze was the load-bearing part and you're late. (Reading funding-versus-price to separate real demand from forced flow is basically what I do at Coinpaprika, so that's the lens.) Right now you probably can't answer it yet, because you're mid-move, which is exactly why chasing here is the coin flip everyone in the replies is joking about.

chainglance_cm

Multiple factors, all aligning at the same time:  a) SEC closed its two year investigation into the Zcash foundation with no action b) Grayscale turned its trust into an actual spot ETF, so institutions finally have a clean legal way in.  c) Shielded pool usage on Zcash also jumped from around 8% of supply to 30%, so it's not just price speculation, actual usage is growing too.   d) Heavier surveillance style regulation like MiCA and the genius act, plus more real world attacks on people whose crypto wealth is visible onchain got investors wanting holdings nobody else can see.  In short, regulation opened the door right as the reasons to walk through it got bigger 

longonbtc

Strategy is not a shoe company. Strategy is a software company that sells convertible bonds to raise capital to buy bitcoin with. The company is kind of like a quasi leveraged bitcoin ETF if you will. They only offer the shoes & merch for sale because some MicroStrategy fans requested it and they obliged. Selling shoes & merch is not their business model. Strategy is not manufacturing or shipping those Strategy shoes & merch. They outsource the manufacturing and shipping to a third party company that manufactures branded merchandise for many companies, processes the payments, and ships the merchandise. And to be quite honest, Strategy doesn't even care about selling the shoes & merch. Selling merch is not how Strategy makes their money. They just offer the merch for sale because some Strategy fans wanted it. Strategy is not handling the payments received when selling that merch. They outsource the payment processing to the same company that manufactures and ships the clothing and that company does not accept bitcoin. If you ever listen to Michael Saylor, then you would know that he doesn't care about accepting bitcoin as payment for little things like that. He cares about using bitcoin as "digital capital". He cares about using bitcoin to conserve "monetary energy". And he cares about bitcoin's usability for large monetary transfers. If you're earning fiat currency for your labor, which almost all of us are, then it makes more sense to spend your fiat currency and save your bitcoin. Saylor understands this. That whole Strategy merch web store is hands off for Strategy. Their merch web store is 100% outsourced. Strategy doesn't answer the emails sent to their merch web store, handle customer support for their merch web store, process the payments for it, manufacture the merch, ship the merch or anything. Strategy doesn't do any of it. They outsource literally all of that to one of those companies that manufactures and ships branded merchandise for a whole bunch of different companies. This is the company Straategy outsources it to: https://bamko.net And BAMKO does not accept bitcoin. If BAMKO did accept bitcoin, then I'm sure the Strategy clothing merch store would accept bitcoin.

ir88ed

In another comment I said "ETF is a fire-and-forget promise to give you paper for your BTC" and the phrasing was intentional. ETF is a promise. Exchanges promise to give you your coins or cash back. I think ETFs will likely be fine long term, but they are still just a promise.

Ok_Application6123

Nowadays I think the best option is just buying the ETF. Storing it yourself is not very fun

Longjumping-Log1591

ETF

LeafarOsodrac

last event: News 25/08/2026, 13:00:01 Grayscale Launches Zcash ETF

omg_its_dan

If you are not confident in your ability to set up a secure wallet then buy the ETF. That’s the better choice for most people imo.

KateR_H0l1day

We had a new ATH before the halving, that’s never happened before, so yes we have, and it’s a fact you cannot get away from. The ETF’s and the numerous new BTC-TC’s have had an effect this cycle, so there’s simply no guarantee that it’ll follow the same pattern this cycle through the end of the year. That’s not to say it won’t go down in October, because it might, but not because it’s blindly following a pattern. 🤷‍♀️

gb3048

If you can, set up a trust, borrow against your stack either annually or every few years with the money that you need to enjoy the twilight years,  and when it is time, if you have family, pass it down. Otherwise the ETF's, treasury companies and others will buy and hold it and never sell. And the general man, never gets a look in again.

frokenhoate

I think the real catalyst is sustained spot demand plus easier liquidity, not one magic headline. If ETF inflows pick up while rates and the dollar cool off, clearing the current resistance looks way more realistic. A clean weekly close above it with volume would convince me more than any intraday pump. Until then, patience and stacking sats feels like the move.

arBettor

.15% per day, or 73% per year? Personal loans are cheaper, credit cards are cheaper. You're getting into payday loan territory. You know you could just buy call options on a bitcoin ETF, right? There are much cheaper and more efficient ways to express your conviction if you just HAVE to apply leverage.

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Post is by: s-i-c-m and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wawv9h/cosmos_halten/ Wie sind die Meinungen von euch? Ehrlich bitte. Bin nicht neu im Crypto, aber habe mich entschlossen Cosmos Atom aufzustocken und hänge jetzt mit DCA wöchentlich 100€ auf einer einmal Investition von 10k bei Kurs 1.15€ in Cosmos Atom. Idee ist die Rewards ordentlich abzugreifen...besser als ETF? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

BigvalBROski

Buy the ETF

Unable-District-3042

If you’re too nervous to hold your own keys, I would recommend an ETF. “owning” bitcoin without the keys is just begging for disaster, imo

mickeyDisneyMouse

After 5 years in BTC I've realized that the key driver of price is actually just supply and demand and all the models are not really that good. If there is fear and people are not buying or are dumping (including long term holders selling like in this cycle), the prices will drop. If people are bullish and want to buy BTC in droves like they were pre-halving and with ETF launches, the prices will go up.

KeyPresent5929

Not allowing withdrawal could also mean they don’t have the real version of the underlying asset, ie. they have a paper version of the underlying asset, for example, an ETF. The paper version is phunny money, until it’s redeemed in kind. In effect, while your balance may say you have BTC, you don’t. It’s only paper or a journal entry.

warmBlizzard20

Honestly, I think ETH needs its own narrative instead of just following BTC. If BTC keeps moving up, ETH usually gets a boost, but to really break and hold $4k I’d want to see stronger ETH ETF inflows, more demand for staking, and ETH starting to outperform BTC. If those things line up, $4k doesn’t seem crazy at all. The harder part is getting ETH to stay above it.

NashDaypring1987

Do both. Spread your risks. I do cold wallet, exchange, and ETF.

Patrick_Atsushi

To be honest, it sounds like some ETF will best suit your needs.  Things could really go wrong if you are trying to do something that you can't really understand. 

KettleDescalingMoFo

It’s never too late. Same for me. I heard about Bitcoin loads in the last decade, but scoffed when I heard people talk about “mining”. My low IQ brain could only attribute mining to real world physical mining. My bad. My thinking about the world changed during Convid and then BTC came back to me in 2023. I started reading The Bitcoin Standard and then started buying in 2024. I missed the pre-ETF prices, but hey ho, you get the price you deserve 😆 Best of luck and make sure you do plenty of research. That’s how you build your conviction on this incredible asset.

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Post is by: coinsocialbase and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1waer0c/bitcoin_sentiment_is_deadeven_right_now_fomo_and/ Been looking at the sentiment split on Bitcoin discussions lately and something stood out: FOMO and FUD are both sitting at exactly 20% each. That's an unusually balanced read, not a lopsided greed or fear market, but a genuine tug-of-war. What's interesting is *why* it's balanced. The bullish side of the conversation is anchored on regulatory clarity, specifically the CLARITY Act, plus continued ETF inflows and institutional interest keeping Bitcoin within its current trading range. The bearish/cautious side isn't really about Bitcoin-specific fundamentals at all, it's macro noise: geopolitical risk, oil prices, and worries that regulatory progress could get delayed or watered down. So you've basically got a market where the bull case is structural (ETF demand, potential legal clarity) and the bear case is external (macro shocks nobody can predict). That's a different dynamic than the usual crypto sentiment swings driven by price action alone, this one's driven by an actual pending piece of legislation and how much weight traders are putting on it. Curious what others think is more likely to move the needle first, actual progress on the CLARITY Act, or another macro headline knocking things off course? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Post is by: coinsocialbase and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wae6vt/bitcoin_sentiment_isnt_actually_bullish_or/ Been looking at how Bitcoin conversation is splitting lately and the numbers are more balanced than I expected: FUD sits at 25% versus FOMO at 20%. Neither extreme dominates, which is unusual compared to the more one-sided sentiment swings you'd typically see during a clear rally or a clear selloff. What's interesting is the *why*. The discussion isn't really about price momentum at all - it's centered on regulatory clarity (the CLARITY Act keeps coming up), ETF inflow/outflow data, and macro noise like oil prices and geopolitical tension. That's a pretty different mix of drivers than the usual "number go up, everyone's euphoric" pattern. It suggests people are treating Bitcoin right now more like a policy-and-liquidity trade than a pure momentum asset. The multi-polar nature of it is the real story here - institutional adoption and capital inflows are feeding the bullish side, while risk-off positioning tied to macro uncertainty feeds the cautious side, and neither is winning decisively. That kind of split sentiment tends to show up when the market is waiting on a specific catalyst (regulatory outcome, Fed decision, etc.) rather than reacting to something that already happened. Curious what others are seeing - do you think regulatory news like the CLARITY Act is actually moving sentiment in your feeds, or is it more noise that gets cited after the fact to explain price action that was going to happen anyway? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Post is by: coinsocialbase and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1wae293/ethereum_sentiment_data_shows_fomo_nearly_double/ Been digging through recent ETH discussion data and one thing stood out: FOMO is sitting at 20% versus FUD at 10%, a pretty clear two-to-one split toward the optimistic side. That's happening while ETH price action is clustered around the 1900 level, which seems to be acting as a psychological reference point for a lot of the conversation right now. What's interesting is the split in *why* people are bullish or bearish isn't really about price alone. The CLARITY Act and other regulatory/ETF developments keep coming up as a catalyst people are watching closely, alongside large whale wallet movements that traders are reading as either accumulation or distribution depending on who you ask. On-chain signals are getting cited by both sides of the argument, which tells me the market hasn't reached consensus on what those flows actually mean yet. The fact that FOMO is elevated but not overwhelming (it's not like 60/5 or something extreme) suggests cautious optimism rather than euphoria. Feels more like people positioning around a potential liquidity-driven move than an all-out hype cycle. What do you think is actually driving the whale activity right now, regulatory clarity expectations, ETF flow anticipation, or something else entirely? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*