ETF

SlooperDoop

I'm 58. 3 or 4 times in my live I've started over with nothing. Divorce, just wanted a fresh start, Laid off and ate Ramen for a couple years getting a degree, etcetera. Financial you have zero impact... (assuming you were HODL'ing and not daily spending). You just keep doing as you've been doing...all your daily expenses have been covered and still are. Mentally...it will help if you do a lot of research into crypto security. You will be comfortable investing again when you trust your of tech level enough. OR just invest in more secure methods (ie ETF).

ColdWalletClutch

It's probably ETF related but client demand is still demand

HaiKarate

What you should do is immediately sell all crypto you’re holding and invest in a reliable ETF like VOO or VTI.

manjjinbuu

They are buying because the ETF is buying! Don’t be a dreamer….

cyger

Everything I have read indicates the chance of hitting 40k or lower is less than 20%. ETF investors likely have stronger hands then retail of the past. Also we didn't have a blow off top, so the bear may not be as deep.

Good_Extension_9642

Sorry to hear you lost all you precious BTC OP, this is one of the reasons I buy BTC ETF instead

Good_Extension_9642

Hey OP, I get what you're saying but I have read too many scary stories about people getting scammed and losing all their BTC, or losing it in another way like forgetting your seed phrase, sending it to the wrong address, losing your 24 would etc, so as soon as the ETF were available, I only by IBIT instead

tbw875

you're worried about a $1000 drop? This is not the right investment for you. Cut your losses and buy an ETF.

FitCompetition1804

If you just think of BTC as an “investment”, then the ETF route has its place. Bitcoin is so much more though depending on your mindset, your trust, and your desire to be truly self sovereign in a SHTF situation. It may seem intimidating, but I highly suggest you research and educate yourself on how to self custody BTC. Are there risks associated, yes. But almost all of those risks are basically user error that can be avoided by taking the time to understand what you are doing and what to avoid. I’m about the same age as you, and while I dabbled with bitcoin in the past, this was the year I actually educated myself as I was waiting for a bear market to finally start accumulating with some seriousness. I have no intention of selling for at least the next 15 years… if ever. This second half of the year will be a great opportunity to start your journey and accumulate with conviction. Bitcoin is no longer a get rich quick scheme, so as long as you understand that and have reasonable expectations, it’s an asset unlike many with its own unique benefits. With that said, I would still diversify with traditional investments as well… but for now in this current market, accumulate that BTC.

Lefties_TheWorst7331

One ETF would be hard to satisfy a market of millions or billions who want a slice. That's a terrible analogy or comparison to BTC.. let's be real.

KryptoChic

For retirement, buy and ETF on the SP500 or Gold. Gold has actually outperformed the SP500 since 1970, when the USA left the gold standard. Its fine to keep some crypto to speculate but not in your retirement funds.

Itchy-Box-7378

Yes i see it over and over again (not just crypto) it’s a combination of buying at too high prices then not averaging down and then not be able to sit on your hands for 12 months. If you in something volatile that drops 60-70% 12 month can feel like forever specially if you check markets everyday and see everything else just 1-2x within weeks/months, i would say it‘s probably the toughest skill/mindset to fix when you go the individual investment route, never underestimate the psychological part of investing the average human being still thinks ETF‘s are „risky“ that should tell you why it feels „easy“ once you not attache your emotions to trades.

Worldly-Ad-1274

Thanks for the feedback! I totally see the value in income funds like JEPQ for steady 'walking around money'. The main reason I'm focusing on MSTR instead of a covered call ETF is the upside capture. Covered call strategies generally cap your upside in exchange for immediate yield. Because I strongly believe Bitcoin is going to experience a massive, explosive move to $200k+, I want a vehicle that captures that specific hyper-growth and amplifies it via corporate leverage. JEPQ is great for regular income, but I'm looking for a cyclical 'growth engine' to fund big trips during the peak of the bull market rather than monthly steady cash flow!

Trevdo

I know you asked the best way to buy and hold it, but just wanted to make you aware of another option is that you can hold a bitcoin ETF inside your tax-free savings account. This allows all your gains to be tax-free..

bittenbycoin

Well the bear market that followed Mt. Gox lasted around 2.5 years (30 months) before things started to turn around in mid-2016, while the post FTX / contagion bear only lasted around 6 months before bull started. Those bear markets triggers were explainable, this bear not so much other than the ETF flock decided risk on season was over, last fool holding bitcoin until next risk on season started is the biggest fool in the room. So no one knows if you'll have to wait 6 months, or 2.5 years, or longer to bust back out to green again.

sigh_duck

I would look at leaps on the ETF's.

riscten

Both require KYC. CEX gives you real Bitcoin but ETF allows you to invest in a tax-sheltered account. This is why I said it's debatable. Personally I do DEX for real Bitcoin and ETF for tax-sheltering, so in my situation CEX and everything below are largely useless.

nitr04

Why ETF > CEX?

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (air-gapped) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is not air-gapped. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

riscten

From worst to best IMHO: * ATMs * Payment services (venmo/cashapp/paypal) * CEX (centralized exchange like Kraken or Coinbase) * ETF * No-KYC DEX * Mining That's my take. CEX, ETF and mining are very debatable as the pros and cons are very different.

DonTheHolder

ETF are cool. Keep some on a wallet or different platform. Coin exchange, ETF, cold etc. Diverse.

sendmeetherplease

If you’re going to get worried over crypto volatility over a 3 week timeframe you shouldn’t be investing in crypto. Go buy an ETF like XEQT or VFV if you want lower risk slow compounding growth.

Forded_Fiction24

But I do own Bitcoin in my cold storage and more of it than within my ETFs. I'm taking the risk with the institution holding the represented value of the Bitcoin that underlyingly backs their ETF and I'm completely fine with that given the associated potential rewards that come from the tax advantage. To mitigate this further or at least divide the risk I'd buy into fbtc and ibit equally because they each use separate custodians to secure the Bitcoin they hold to back the fund.  You can do as you please and if you don't want to take the risk in exchange of having another $1 million potentially  saved from the tax haven that roths offer. That's your choice and as of now with current tax code, you can just instead choose to pay the capital gains taxes on your Bitcoin holdings if you ever choose to use them.  Everyone has different risk tolerance and profiles. If you don't want to take the risk of institutional holding then don't. I'm fine with that risk to a degree which is why I divide my holdings into Cold storage and ETFs. You do you

gordonfr_

I do ETF or cold storage. I don’t leave control over my coins to any crypto broker or exchange.

CrispyByte8

Cold storage is cool, but in a 15-year window I would at least think about the Roth ETF angle too. Not either/or.

AnywhereNo5170

ETF’s are your answer if you’re uncomfortable with directly buying and holding crypto assets.

sobasicallyimanowl

Check to see if Fidelity lets you withdraw the BTC to a separate wallet if you ever wanna do that. If you don't mind it being tied to Fidelity and non-withdrawable then you can go ahead with them. There are other options like Coinbase, Kraken, Binance US, Uphold, etc. but keep in mind some of them will want you to link your bank with a third party application before you can make a purchase or sell. Most other options will ask you to provide ID so if you don't want to do that and have already established with Fidelity then that would be another plus for Fidelity. Btw idk if they sell pure coins or if only ETF tied to BTC.

Forded_Fiction24

Most here on this sub are very resistant to the idea despite the huge tax savings. If BTC were to go to $5 million a coin let's say then the cost of paranoia at that point would total greater than $1 million. I find the risk associated with institutionally held ETF's worth that kind of money to at least contribute partially to one. While the paranoia in me, persuades me to simultaneously hold a healthy portion in in Cold storage.  I think the easiest play here is do both and then your risk is mitigated and your potential reward is greater

Specialist_Trust4945

Why not just buy a leveraged ETF, such as BITX?

Romanizer

Best options are either setting up a cold wallet for self-custody (don't let your Bitcoin lying on an exchange) or buying an ETF, which for most is easier and safer.

ProfsrGabriel

I'd probably go with actual BTC. Even if you don't care much about self-custody today, it gives you more options later. Native staking is a good example of something an ETF can't offer.

paperlevel

You don't buy on the wallet, the wallet is how your keys are stored. I would actually recommend starting with an ETF especially if you already have a brokerage account. If you want BTC directly an app like Strike is pretty good, keeps it simple.

Born_Elk7497

Good morning and welcome! I’d buy the ETF while the nice entry price is there and then gradually spend some time learning and dabbling with cold storage. You don’t have to necessarily use it regularly but you should experience it. The issue with ETFs is that it’s harder to have diamond hands long term because the sell button is one click away, particularly if you’re like me and want to check your accounts daily and overthink things. The other issues are more philosophical but you don’t need to tackle those right off the bat.

TheresNoSecondBest

Congrats on the move, it's never too late, [despite new people thinking otherwise](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rskpuf/i_have_only_600_bitcoinsi_missed_the_bus/). ONLY INVEST MONEY YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Invest in your knowledge, learn about Bitcoin as much as you can. The Bitcoin Standard book is a must read. So is Broken Money by Lyn Alden. Also, **don't reply any DMs**, emails, private messages on other social media, promising to buy Bitcoin from them or get rich quick by investing into some website. They all are scammers. Even the hot Asian chick, he's a scammer too. **Price wise, nobody knows what the price will be tomorrow, next week or at the end of the year.** **Try "Bitcoin ONLY" strategy for at least the first 210,000 block cycle**, you'll sleep much better. Newcomers lose so much money, holding tokens just because someone on YT told them to. If you don't like losing money in [failed coins](https://www.coingecko.com/research/publications/how-many-cryptocurrencies-failed), avoid. DCA is probably the best approach. Once a week works best for me, but I'm getting paid weekly. This [DCA calculator](https://21vox.com/dca-calculator) might help to decide what will work best for you. In a few years, even $10 dollars a month can make a massive difference. This [DCA blog](https://er-bybitcoin.com/) is pretty interesting too and compares buying bitcoin VS stocks. Now, don't buy some fake bitcoin at a spot ETF place or similar, **get the real thing** that you can withdraw anytime you want. Register at a proper exchange and buy real Bitcoin. Any of these will do [https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin](https://bitcoin-only.com/get-bitcoin) Install (or buy - in case you're getting Bitcoin in Thousands of $) one or more of these wallets. **A few good wallet choices:** [https://blockstream.com/app/](https://blockstream.com/app/) \- Top Security Features, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://bluewallet.io](https://bluewallet.io/) \- excellent, easy to use wallet, Open Source and Non-Custodial [https://www.sparrowwallet.com](https://www.sparrowwallet.com) - top desktop wallet [https://electrum.org](https://electrum.org/) \- Solid choice, Open Source and Non-Custodial, one of the oldest and most trusted Bitcoin Wallets. I prefer the desktop version but it works on mobile too. **Lightning wallets** to consider (cheaper and faster transactions, great for small amounts): [https://phoenix.acinq.co/](https://phoenix.acinq.co/) \- Phoenix - very good wallet, uses Tor for extra privacy, easy for anyone new [https://blixtwallet.github.io/](https://blixtwallet.github.io/) \- Blixt - great UI, fast and clean. The app runs a full LND node on your phone and you have the ability to easily open channels to whatever nodes you like. [https://zeusln.com/](https://zeusln.com/) Zeus - impressive wallet with many features, can even generate Nostr keys [https://breez.technology](https://breez.technology/) \- Breez - excellent POS for small business owners as well as integrated Bitrefill Note: Breez does also a hybrid liquid/LN wallet called Misty Breez - the sats being on liquid means no need for channels although the payments take a few extra seconds. You'll also can get a free customable LN address. While talking about hybrid wallets, there's also Aqua Wallet although not IMHO as good as Misty Breez. There are also custodial LN wallet but I would honestly avoid using them because you have to trust the wallet operator not to steal your money. Their only advantage is that they are incredibly easy to use, although it might cost you big one day. To keep up to date with spending wallets, visit r/TheLightningNetwork at least once a while and perhaps r/RGB in the future. **Hardware Wallets** (to store larger amounts): [Trezor](https://trezor.io/) \- Easy to use, no matter how new in Bitcoin you're. If you can afford it, opt for Safe 7 (air-gapped) and use the Bitcoin only firmware as it's safer than a multi coin software. [ColdCard](https://coldcardwallet.com/) - air gapped, Bitcoin only, has advanced features but a new user will do fine with one of the great tutorials available. [BitBox02](https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/bitcoin-only/) - another great little device, opt for the more secure Bitcoin ONLY version (less coins = less code = less chance for a hidden bug or a backdoor). Sadly, this device is not air-gapped. [Jade](https://blockstream.com/jade) - air gapped, fully open source, Bitcoin only, great features. There's a newer version called Jade Plus, it has much better camera and overall is a better, although a bit more expensive, option. You can even [build it on your own](https://github.com/Blockstream/jade/), if you feel adventurous. [Seedsigner](https://github.com/SeedSigner/seedsigner) - another DIY, fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, not for you if you're just starting up but something to consider later. [Krux wallet](https://selfcustody.github.io/krux/) - one more DIY hardware device, I love this one for many reasons. Similar to Seedsigner, it's fully open source, air gapped, Bitcoin only hardware wallet, that is not for you right now if you're just starting up, but something to consider at a later stage and/or to up the security of your bitcoin. There's also Ledger, but I wouldn't recommend it as it's not fully open source, keep and already leaked customers' details, recently said they're capable of sending customers' keys out just with a firmware update, making is an expensive hot wallet. The opposite of what you want from a cold wallet. **Stay away**, save yourself a headache in the future. The same goes for many other hardware wallets that are too new or filled with too much of unnecessary shitcoin code. Stay away. Whatever wallet you'll decide to buy, purchase DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, no eBay, no Amazon. Make sure the device is NOT preset, and you will generate your own seed words. Write them down on any piece of paper as well as the receiving address. Now wipe the wallet and generate a new wallet. If the seed words are different from the first set, you're safe to use it. Find an option to set a passphrase and use it. This will boost the security to another level. Never store the seed words and passphrase together. Use a different medium if possible. If somebody finds both, they'll be able to steal your coin. This little device will hold the keys to your money, that's the reason why you have to be a bit more careful. Also, no worries, if it breaks, you can replace it - as long as you keep your seed words and passphrase(s) safe. Welcome to the rabbit hole and don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions anytime during your Bitcoin journey. Also, [check the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/about) that's filled with lots of great info and if you have any questions, visit r/BitcoinBeginners or r/Bitcoin and look for the answers.

Hour_Flounder1405

I bought at 110 (after the all time high peaked at 125K). I sold at 98K (all of it). And measured in again at 58K. I don't own a crystal ball, but I know when my trade performance is screaming: "take action and stop being hard headed". So I listen to that ...it's not hard to know when your trades are horrible. You P/L record PROVES IT. but how do I KNOW when to get back in, when to get out? 200 MA MACD RSI sure those TA indicators can give you "SOME" insights. but they are NOT the predictors. For bitcoin, which is now a global asset, traded on every major classic trading exchange, and hedge funds and even with some nation state central banks trading it and buying it for a "reserve". It behaves now, quite correlated to the overall global market. In particular the tech sector, specifically NASDAQ. Bitcoin IS a tech "stock". It is also subject to the same drivers. interest rates, war and crisis, uncertainty, gold prices, nasdaq performance, S&P and DOW performance. So you have some correlations ..and of course, transparently you can actually see the ETF's failed miserably. That WAS TELLING. now there is more to this than even those fundamentals. specifically. THE POWER LAW. Look into this. I have. Albeit a little late to avoid making foolish trades I mentioned above. Here are the current figures. I'll start with the most important and immediate levels Lower Bounds (solid hard floor): 58700 (does this sound familiar? We just hit that and it went just slightly lower...a rounding error). That already happened. If you believe in the POWER LAW and understand how to calculate it, then we already had a floor for bitcoin. (but THIS ONLY APPLIES TO BITCOIN...don't even try that for etherium or any other coin. For etherium, use metcalfe's law...do the calculation but also understand that eth has broken down and violated metcalfe's law numerous times. However, BITCOIN has NEVER broken down and violated THE POWER LAW! It's not magic. it's just a very good way to measure price bounds for bitcoin. regression: this is 165,000. This is "fair value". This is where we are headed next. There is no frame of reference for time to hit this level. No one knows. But that is the current fair value regression. It will definitely mark AT LEAST that level in the next leg up. and the next level and understanding of the POWER LAW explains why Upper Bounds (cycle top, peak exuberance) - 582,000. This is the specific level of the next cycle all time high. Again, like regression level, there is no time specifics for this level to get hit. No one knows. But that is the cycle top. It will act as resistance. You will definitely want to take profit at or just below that level. notes: these figures are based on the ENTIRE data set of prices (absolute) for every single 10 second interval of bitcoin since the genesis block originated in a open public trading condition. These values DO CHANGE OVER TIME AS BITCOIN PRICES CHANGES AND MORE DATA POINTS ARE ESTABLISHED. also noting with emphasis: because we have hit the hard floor of support (lower bounds = approx 58,000), our next level IS regression (165K). When that level happens and it will, we recalculate THE POWER LAW including the new data points. And thus we will furnish a new set of LOWER, REGRESSION and Upper levels. But for now, we can depend on the levels here based on prior data. This has been incredibly accurate since the origination of the first genesis block was traded as bitcoin. It has never, not once violated the power law. (other crypto have failed miserably to follow any such power law with etherium only holding about a .58 correlation to metcalfe's law, proving there are no good mathematical formula or theories of past performance of ETH upon which to determine three dependable trading levels in the long term. (or the short, arguably). bitcoin is king for a reason. it's mature, limited in supply with only 1 more million to be mined between now and 2040 (approx). this feature makes is not only popular and understandable in terms of limited supply and comparison to a store of value (like gold), but mathematical formulas and theories such as THE POWER LAW prove that it conforms to a correlation of volatility that is dependable enough to be profitable for the long term trader. (not the short term day trader, no sir) You are welcome. Have a happy trading season and don't get greedy. It's not bitcoin that will punish greedy traders...it's market makers. Help them along by trading bitcoin with the POWER LAW and they look favorably on your participation. Go hog wild and fight against the trend...and you get rewarded with nuts in your face. God Bless America

UzItOrLuzIt

If you're scared, and in EU, flip to an ETN, which works like and ETF in the US, pay the ~.25%/yr management fee, and go back to sleeping soundly. ETN managers don't publish client info publically so you are straight back to anonymous, unless their DB gets hacked or you have so much that your banker is willing to sell you out. Just guessing, but I think its safe to assume that nobody viewing this thread has a sufficient stack to merit said sell-out...

Yike_Pp

I just buy ETF

FitCompetition1804

If the S ever HTF, you’ll wish you had self custodial BTC. I know most don’t think like that, but that’s what makes it a unique asset. With ETF’s or leaving it on an exchange, you lose that aspect of Bitcoin ownership.

Slay_Nation

Some people aren't tech savvy and let's not pretend people haven't lost their coins in hardware wallets due to mistakes, on user end. Quite frankly OP is prime for the ETF use case.

Laukess

Sounds like you've already decided. Just want to add a few things. You don't sound like a bitcoiner, which is fine, so I think ETF's are an acceptable option. That said self custody is very important for bitcoin. Without it, it's practically worthless. >Prefer to not have to physically own cold wallet, unless this form of exposure to crypto has the most likely chance of highest returns The ETF's charge a fee. Self custody can be free or at least very inexpensive if you have a sizeable position. Bitcoin/crypto exchanges are also free, but it's probably safer to go with the ETF's. >Assume Fidelity won’t go under in the next 20 years (I know it could) I don't think this should be your main concern. Probably something that's outside your threat model, but we could see a 6102 like event where the US government takes all the bitcoin from the American ETF's and pay you in fiat. I'm not sure about Fidelity, they might actually self custody, but most of the ETF's use Coinbase as a 3rd party custodian. What do you think will happen if Coinbase is hacked and the coins they custody are stolen/lost? They hold over 1 million coins. I think this is far more likely than Fidelity going under.

fakehalo

If you're planning on holding for 20+ years id do cold storage... too many people have lost everything being on the wrong exchange at the wrong time. I wouldn't even feel safe in an ETF for 20 years.

gordonfr_

I wouldn‘t leave bitcoin on any crypto exchange, but I trust in the big ETF issuers. ETF or BTC is for me a tax question.

RN_in_Illinois

I'm not sure about Fidelity, but at Schwab, my choices are to buy IBIT ETF for free with a .25% annual fee for the ETF. If it is truly a long-term hold, then I can buy BTC directly through them with no markup, but a one-time .75% transaction fee. Holding for more than 6 years (given .75% to buy and sell) would be the factor that would favor BTC instead of IBIT. I've gone with IBIT because, 1. I do sell covered calls way out of the money and make a few additional % each year to buy more IBIT, and 2. I live in Illinois. Our awesome state government and governor just signed a .2% tax on all crypto transactions - and once a tax is passed in Illinois, it historically has been raised whenever they need more money. And with the largest collection of unfunded pensions, in the country, Illinois will ALWAYS need more money over time.

paperlevel

Just buy the ETF and chill. It's cheaper than buying the actual coins because most exchanges charge excessive premiums. The IBIT ETF is extremely liquid and secure with low fees and it will handle taxes for you automatically, and you can borrow against it and trade easily. The only reason to hold actual bitcoin on a cold wallet is if you have a zero trust philosophy, which is fine but doesn't sound like what you're looking for.

Jogi1811

I'm currently in a tanked ETF (MSTE) in Canada trading at $1.84 after close. All time high for BTC was $126k in 2025 and MSTE was around $19. The reason I chose MSTE because there are two paths to generate money. One, being capital gains. BTC will probably double its value in 2029. Where as MSTE has a potential chance to gain much more. Maybe 6 or 7x my average cost per share. Two is the dividends that MSTE pays out. Let's say MSTE does not reach my price target or I wait too long as it drops. The ETF will still pay me a large dividend each month that will fluctuate with the price per share but still is substantial to me. My DCA starts at the low point of BTC and will stop at the halving. I will just continue it during the next cycle and see if I hit my price target then. This is my approach but I feel I might be downvoted for it.

Deez1putz

The more people buy in an ETF the more BTC loses several of it’s value proposition.

jkc7

In other words, you're asking us to convince you to cold storage instead of buy an ETF. Because it seems like you want an ETF.

Rumpleshull

Probably brokerage ETF even if it's not tax advantaged. You don't sound interested in doing the deep dive into self custody, and those ETFs have very secure holding standards (they'll do cold storage for you essentially). I also assume that you're more familiar with trading on the market, because I doubt you opened a brokerage account just to buy Bitcoin ETFs. There's also the convenience of all major brokerages keeping track of your trades for tax purposes, and you could transfer your investment in kind if you do eventually want to move it into a tax advantaged account.

EnderSword

If you don't really care about owning and using the coins, go ETF. The flip side of 'Not your keys not your coins' is that a fuck ton of people get their shit stolen or lost or hacked etc... Then too if you die its not just gone, you don't have to do elaborate stuff... Let Fidelity figure that out, if they fuck it up, they owe you the money.

PeaceAgitated1978

I definitely agree with you, 💯 I liked that. But some strategies are better than others.. fiscally speaking.. Why pay cap gains on BTC if you have a TSFA empty and ETF exists 🤔🤷🤣

Critical_Deer_1892

https://preview.redd.it/gdfvz0g439ch1.png?width=3420&format=png&auto=webp&s=6335541ecf83eb109a90fe9da0e611c0ba616f6d ETF flows are starting to diverge. BTC ETFs: -$84.9M latest flow ETH ETFs: +$70.5M latest flow BTC still holds the larger AUM, but ETH is showing cleaner short-term demand here.

lachlanrw

You really need to sit down and ask yourself, do you think Bitcoin will get back to where it was in 2-3 years? If you truly have that conviction you’ll be fine. I didn’t sell at the top when I had double my money and was then down 50-70% in 2021, saw it as a positive to stack more over 2022 and things turned out better. But I did a lot of research into things at the time too on ETF approval, inflation, interest rates, but also just the pure logic that cycles are built into this technology.

Jogi1811

Currently in an ETF that pays a dividend and DCA every pay period. My goal is either to reach my $ goal by the end of this cycle or just continue to collect dividends until I start DCA again next cycle. This method works for me as both options have its pluses.

joos_hubert

The important part is that “Bitcoin lending” can mean very different things. A bank lending against ETF exposure, a custodial BTC-backed loan, and an on-chain collateral loan all have different failure points. The headline number matters less than what happens when BTC drops fast: starting LTV, margin-call timing, liquidation rules, custody of the collateral, and whether you can add collateral before the position gets sold. I would treat borrow-against-Bitcoin as a liquidity tool, not a free way to stay bullish. If the loan only works while BTC keeps going up, it is just leverage with nicer branding.

Lonely_Platform7702

If you want to lower your capital even more then yes. But seriously, if you want to invest just buy a good widely spread index fund every month and stick with it. I've barely made anything from crypto in over 5 years while my ETF's have doubled/tripled in value. Crypto is a waste of time for investing, it's more like gambling.

No-Masterpiece2246

Alts have decoupled from BTC, which is dropping due to ETF rehypothecation.

No-Masterpiece2246

nailed it. Also the old days of high mNAV were during the Gensler SEC years, when traditional investors couldn't legally get exposure to Bitcoin directly. Saylor assumed the risk in exchange for a premium. Now anybody can just buy 100s of cryptos directly and skip the custodial/Ponzi risk. Indirect exposure to Bitcoin via a conman's ghetto ETF is hardly desirable.

genius_retard

ETF investors remain... what? What do ETF investors remain. I can't take not knowing!

corporate-citizen

If you invest in MSTR or the preferreds, I would not base that decision on anything he says. I think a good idea for a geared Bitcoin ETF would be the, “Inverse Saylor Bitcoin ETF.” It would sell when he buys and buy when he sells. Many of us might be able retire with just that asset.

ZaimonXd

Grayscale files for hype ETF is a sign of how serious the institutional interest has gotten which is very good , 👍🏻👍🏻

hoff4z

ETF flows have been positive for 2 days straight. Why is this sub so quiet

DifficultSquash1517

Sorry this happened to you. I like to call myself Captain Diversification My whole life I've been very paranoid about losing my assets to some kind of theft. When I was active in crypto I used to keep my holdings in about 15 different places. I never want One financial blip to change my financial situation or my mental well-being I hope this was a part of your investments and not all of it. I always feel like diversification should come naturally to most people but it doesn't 🥺 Most posters in the Bitcoin space like to post like tough asses that they are against the financial system and self custody is the way to go not your keys not your crypto etc.... but when the rubber hits the road and there's a problem everyone wishes they had a bank officer or fraud department to turn to that's going to return the money I'm an OG in this space going back to 2016 and if I got out of self custody that really says a lot The risks are higher than ever for losing your assets. This is crypto so when something inevitably goes wrong at least you got Schwab or Fidelity or black rock that is going to have your back And if you're only into crypto for the price action and you don't care about the tech just buy the ETF at least you're going to be safe and as an added bonus you could write covered calls on your holdings and generate 1 to 2% safely on your holdings💪🤑👍

genius_retard

> I don’t have to worry about losing my keys, hackers, FYI if the ETF's custodian gets hacked of loses their keys your investments will not be covered. Your investments are insured against the brokerage bank (Questrade, Wealthsimple, TD Direct, etc.) going bankrupt but the ETFs themselves are not. I have started diversifying my BTC ETF holdings among several funds that use different methods of custody (Gemini, Coinbase, and self custody) and making sure they all carry their own insurance.

Bully79

Lookup farside investors daily ETF inflow

theincognito66

MSBT has only 0.14% annual fee for their ETF that does the same thing as IBIT. I prefer owning actual BTC, but I also like to throw this info in where I can. DYOR - there are cheaper ETFs that do the same thing

BaldGuyAce

Or just buy the ETF. Unless you’re planning on spending bitcoin to buy things, you don’t need the actual coin. You make the same money with the ETF that you do with the coin(the ETF has a 0.25% annual fee, but it costs around 0.6% to 1.2% to buy bitcoin directly anyway, so it’s a wash)

WordsHappenedHere

This aversion to Coinbase or other major exchanges is kind of strange. Coinbase is a highly regulated publicly traded company. I mean ETF fund managers pay them to secure the coins. The average person simply should not even be using a decentralized wallet. And this is why the mainstream will never adopt bitcoin so long as stuff like this happens and then people tell them to setup a complicated cold storage wallet. lol. I mean Coinbase is essentially like a bank which holds your funds. So what?

rsouxlja7

Or if you do just buy an ETF.

Objective-Choice6518

Bitcoin ETF would be better thank MSTR

The_Bitcoin_Act

With an ETF, they’d force you to sell shares in your brokerage account, then use the cash to buy crypto on an exchange and send it. This adds friction: settlement delays, KYC on the exchange, and bank/brokerage fraud monitoring that might flag unusual large sells or withdrawals. That friction could buy time or trigger an alert, but it’s not a safeguard, just a possible speed bump. Also, once the crypto actually leaves your control, it’s gone either way. No insurance reverses a completed on-chain transfer. But kidnap & ransom insurance exists and sometimes covers extortion payments.

TheGreatGreg81

Should have invested in ETF

L_F_0

If I hold Bitcoin through an ETF and an attacker forces me to sell and buy crypto to transfer to them. Would that be the same thing or is there a way I could claim back through some kind of insurance. Asking because I would probably sleep better at night if this is the case.

TokyoLosAngeles

If you only care about Bitcoin as a long term investment and not for any kind of practical use purposes, honestly, just invest in a Bitcoin ETF. Waaaaay safer than fucking around with hardware wallets and SEED phrases etc.

Posrover

$MSTU 2x for you MSTR degens. This ETF has been beaten.

BrawndoCrave

Thursday also saw BTC ETF inflow of $221M. One could argue a rotation from one single asset manager to multiple others is healthy for BTC long term.

Juus

Any crypto trade isn't a buy and forget investment. This will end badly for OP. OP, you should look at a passive stock ETF instead, if you want to buy something and forget about it for years.

Barcode_Griller

I wouldn't recommend people hold cash either. Short term emergency funds in a cash account, life savings type shit in something like an S&P500 ETF if you have long enough to retirement or something like SGOV if you might need it sooner.

devCheckingIn

Yeah BTC actually pumped last week while they were selling. But this isn't too surprising since Saylor's sell was a pittance compared to the recent weekly ETF outflows. People still put too much emphasis on Saylor because they need to fan the FUD flames to keep the bear market going.

eToroTeam

That's pretty much where I'd land too. July seasonality is real but it's never been a clean signal on its own. ETF flows feel like the more important thing to watch right now. What would confirmation actually look like for you: flows turning positive, or something on-chain?

Calm_Egg4984

ETF outflows can indicate market sentiment changes. Historical data on similar outflows often shows varied responses in BTC price. Examining those patterns may provide insights. For research only, not financial advice.

CODE_HEIST

post ETF bitcoin is a different market structure. more institutional access does not automatically mean more onchain usage. it probably makes price discovery deeper, but it also pulls the narrative closer to macro flows and away from cypherpunk stuff.

ReceptionSmall9941

ETF flows can dominate headlines, but realized demand and holder behavior usually tell you more about whether a move has depth. The hard part is separating genuine accumulation from supply getting parked in wrappers that still trade like macro risk.

Outrageous_Elk_3192

2021 retails that blew their portfolio up from the metaverse never came back. That was a huge sign. Those who came back and thought BTC was their only savior will face consequences soon. When people have the same thoughts, you know it’s almost the end. ETF just proved 120k was the highest BTC can go. It will never go back to that price again, forever.

Laukess

It's an easy way to get a lot of bitcoin information in a fairly easy and convenient way. Good way to learn if your new. Too bad most of the information is pure noise, with extremely little signal. I think most people figure this out after a year or 2 and move on. I came back because I thought contributing with some comments could be helpful, but I don't think It's made much of a different. It's quite the echo chamber, so you end up with everyone having the same opinions because they're all getting the same information from reddit, and it's easy to just write the same thing you've read and agree with everyone. Like the fact that everyone was recommending Ledger and Trezor as the only hardware wallets for the longest time. The idea that you run a node to help the network. Not your keys, not your coins. Until the ETF's was approved. A surprisingly small amount of hate of Coinbase. Also, if someone posts something dumb, like bitcoin having no value and is only an investment/gamble, instead of calling that out, and pointing out why it's a poor argument, people will just sling mud the other way, arguing that fiat is the same. It's like people haven't spend much time thinking about bitcoin, but they still want to engage in the discussion. A lot of spam posts like "should i buy", or thinly vailed posts about price predictions. I would just delete all of these posts, but it would probably just kill the sub as it's 95% of the posts I see would be instantly deleted.

AutoModerator

Post is by: AIautoagent1 and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoMarkets/comments/1uo7xpm/cbdcs_are_moving_from_theory_to_reality_while_the/ The most interesting monetary story right now isn’t an ETF or halving – it’s that CBDCs are quietly moving from white papers to actual infrastructure while the US just politically froze its own “digital dollar” experiment. We’ve now got a pretty clear split: China’s e-CNY is live at scale, the Bahamas, Nigeria, Jamaica and a few others already have retail CBDCs in production, and the Eurozone plus a cluster of EMs (Brazil, India, etc.) are deep in pilots and design phases. The Atlantic Council’s tracker shows over 130 countries exploring CBDCs, and the IMF/WEF crowd is openly discussing cross-border CBDC interoperability as a future “upgrade” to the global monetary system. Meanwhile, the US President literally signed an executive order banning a US CBDC for now – which doesn’t stop the Fed from building FedNow rails and experimenting in the background, but it does signal political resistance to a fully-fledged “Digital Dollar.” For Bitcoin and crypto, I don’t see CBDCs as direct competitors – they’re more like a confirmation that the fiat game is going fully digital and fully surveilled. A CBDC is just the same debasing unit with better policy levers: instant negative rates, expiring money, more targeted capital controls. At the same time, de‑dollarization is creeping forward (BRICS, bilateral trade in local currencies, talk of CBDC-based cross-border settlement). If the dollar’s network effect erodes at the margin, I want exposure to assets that sit outside any single state’s liability structure: BTC as the reserve asset, some ETH and quality infra, plus regulated access to the “inside” system via public markets. Given where this is heading, self-custody is non-negotiable for me. With CBDCs accelerating, I keep everything off exchanges in self-custody on a Ledger — the whole point of crypto is the exit: https://shop.ledger.com/?r=earning-hq&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=cbdc&utm_content=ledger and I only use centralized venues for liquidity and fiat on/off-ramps. For anyone just getting positioned, Coinbase is the most compliant US ramp: https://coinbase.com/join/earning-hq?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=cbdc&utm_content=coinbase Curious how others here are pricing CBDC risk: Are you changing your allocation (more BTC vs alts), your custody setup, or your jurisdictional exposure as these projects move from pilot to live? Ledger and Coinbase links are affiliate links. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

LocksmithMuted4360

I purchase 1000$ of ETF each 2 weeks, plus other ocasional purchases of btc each month (around 0.02btc).

TheBakedGod

Many of these stories happened before seed phrases existed, and before exchanges were popular too. So if you lost the hard drive with the private key, you were fucked. Now with multiple back up options, not to mention things like crypto ETF's, losing your coins is much less common. There's no conspiracy, just a slow and steady improvement in the functionality of crypto as well as people's understanding of how it all works.

mushyjoseph57

A trillion in fresh capital is a tall ask when retail is already stretched thin from the last cycle. ETF flows help, but those are mostly the same dollars rotating around, not new money actually entering the space. Parabolic runs need fresh blood, and right now that appetite just isn't there.

Lavayo

Good job, I started in 24 after the ETF pump. Also large lump sum at the start. If I had started 2 months earlier I would have much more but that's how it is. At least we did not see those prices again yet. Concerning the cycle, no one knows. It's eerily accurate historically though. The reason also is not really clear. Many say it's the halving which is every four years. It has an effect for sure but personally I don't think it's that great anymore. Over 20M BTC got mined already, the coins that were mined in 26 got bought up by mstr alone twice over. Yet we are in a bear market. Another explanation is the general cyclicality in markets and fiscal policy. It might break it might hold, but imo there is no reason why it should break in 4-8 years specifically.

Ok-Veterinarian969

If you buy it as an ETF which is within a tax-free account (isa / roth) then you will not have to pay capital gain if / when the price goes to the moon.

DifficultSquash1517

This will be my fourth cycle and I have significantly decreased my exposure to all crypto including Bitcoin My theory is that the market is not going to give anybody a "layup" Just like everyone thought they had the shit coin cycle figured out and everybody got wrecked on altcoins.... Most of those people are back today saying I'm going to stay in Bitcoin this time or I'm going to stay in Bitcoin and then rotate later on..... The markets are never going to agree with you or give you a slam dunk like this of course they're going to throw everything off Just by the ETF so you don't get hacked and right covered calls every week on your holdings and you'll generate 1 to 2% a month so even if Bitcoin stays flat in a few years you'll still be free rolling 🤷

Emergency-Warthog-56

Not necessarily. There's a lot of them who invested from this zone back when ETF began. I think most of their paper hands have been shaken out.

yeahhhbeer

The other major benefit to the ETF is your brokerage will provide your 1099 if you sell anything. Tax accounting can be annoying especially if DCAing small amounts and then you sell, whereas if you just buy the ETF and sell they do all the work for you

UpstairsAide3058

How do you measure what you have? For example I easily know that I have .1 or .2 or 1 BTC in my self custody. When you buy an ETF, how do you know how much BTC that represent ?

Romanizer

That's how they make money on any asset. Buying and selling Bitcoin right now for BlackRock doesn't make a lot of sense due to risk weighting. And their ETF was the best they ever started and is the revenue leader. However, if you hear their CEO or the digital asset manager talk about Bitcoin, it's hard to say they don't acknowledge it. They even go farther and push for tokenization of markets and getting the whole financial world on the blockchain.

FitCompetition1804

lol definitely stick to ETF’s. I understand it can be intimidating to some, but it’s really not that big of a deal if you just take the time to educate yourself.

OrangePillar

No reason to buy ETF unless the money is in a retirement account that can’t access spot bitcoin.

newjerseymax

Yep. So much easier if I don’t have to have custody. I don’t think people realize how stressful it is to keep millions of dollars on basically a flash-drive. Then transferring it over and praying it gets there, even though you did a test transfer. Then you have to cash out and hope the bank doesn’t see it as sketchy and put a hold on it (which they have). All that is avoided with ETF.

CommunityCommon1732

I prefer holding Bitcoin instead of ETF, but everyone has their own approach 

Vortiqar

The comment below nailed it. ETF if you want wealth, direct BTC if you want sovereignty. Different goals, both valid