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yes, that is a really good idea you have shared. i have one account that’s a managed account, so i’m not really able to cull as much as i’d like there. but another equity account in which i am able to give direction definitely has some flatlining happening. i probably got into most of those stocks for the dividends, which is good of course. but comparatively, if those could be cashed out for BTC purchases (especially right now, during this extended dip) then i think lots of traditionally favored dividend stocks that move very little, arguably, will ultimately show less overall yield than securing a nice chunk of BTC. The brokerages and RIAs who don’t necessarily like or trust BTC or crypto in general can be really negative when you discuss your strategies with them. But lately, I have noticed that my adviser is forced to concede and agree with me that BTC is not going anywhere anytime soon, and that large financial institutions (e.g., Blackrock comes to mind — https://www.usfunds.com/resource/blackrock-says-bitcoin-deserves-a-spot-in-your-portfolio/), hedge funds, and public companies like Strategy and Tesla that are all in on BTC, are all a very good sign that BTC is not only NOT a terrible idea, but that it actually may be a very good idea (at least, to them, in terms of hedging your portfolio’s equity concentration with a smaller/modest size allocation in BTC and BTC-related ETFs.) I even got him to agree to pick up some Grayscale BTC mini-trust ETF (ticker: BTC) for me, which is pretty cool (although i might have preferred Fidelity’s FBTC or Blackrock’s IBIT). Still, it is arguably even better to just pick up BTC directly if you believe in its growth potential (which I do). I think the older advisers coming around is a pretty important development for BTC investors, in conjunction with the crypto policy shift announced by US politicians and regulators. This demographic’s adoption of BTC as a necessary and undeniable fact of life proves that investors and their advisers and broker-dealers can no longer ignore crypto (especially since their clients are asking about it and demanding it more and more). Thank you for the response!
I prefer FBTC since fidelity actually holds the bitcoin
Why not just buy MSTY use the dividends to buy more FBTC/IBIT/etc..
Yes and no. The short to medium term brokerage investments, Yes, I'm rotating profits into Bitcoin for the long run. The 401K and matching I can't touch until I retire. There's no Bitcoin exposure other than in large index funds that hold things like MSTR and others, so indirect and not much. My Roth only partially too because it isn't made up exclusively of IBIT and FBTC, that's probably 1/3 of the account
I do both Reason being I get a 50% match on my 401k with no salary cap. So that basically translates to an instant 50% return to the IRS limit of $23k plus whatever market returns which for 2024 was 18.2%, so practically means 68.2% total for the year. Plus It reduces my taxable income by $23k per year saving more money. Its not BTC returns on a good year but it's not too bad either due to the matching. It's hard to turn down Then in my Roth I hold IBIT and FBTC amongst other traditional stocks and ETFs. These ETF'S track the same performance as Bitcoin itself. The catch is here is 30 years from now I won't be paying any taxes on the gains. With current law, Bitcoin itself would be taxed and I hope that changes but as it stands, I avoid taxes with my Roth. It's limited to $7k annually, but I'll take it. Depending on what Bitcoin appreciates over 30 years, this could save me tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I fund my 401k, and my Roth in addition to buying Bitcoin. Then I also invest aggressively in a brokerage fund that in the short to medium term my investments have outpaced Bitcoin at times. Any that I lose money with I use to tax harvest. I then take some profits off the table of the high gainers around every second or third year and rotate them into accumulating more Bitcoin. So in the end I have more Bitcoin because of my stock investments
Easy, sell it off and buy it back on Fidelity FBTC. I don’t trust myself w cold storage and not the big exchanges bc they have atrocious outsourced customer service and higher trade fees
Can you roll some of your Vanguard funds over to Fidelity IRA for FBTC? I was able to but only a certain percentage.
Maybe look into a Roth IRA and purchase IBIT or FBTC.
In a retirement account, if you don't have access to real BTC then an ETF is perfect for you. And it's SPIC insured, unlike someone custodying your actual Bitcoin without you holding the keys. I hold IBIT and FBTC for diversity of custodians.
So I get a 50% match on my 401k with no salary cap. So that basically translates to an instant 50% return plus whatever market returns I'm receiving which over the last year feb'24-feb'25 is 18.63%, so practically means 68.63%. Not too bad. Plus It reduces my taxable income by $23k per year saving more money. Then in my Roth I hold IBIT and FBTC amongst other traditional stocks and ETFs. These ETF'S track the same performance as Bitcoin itself. The catch is here is 30 years from now I won't be paying any taxes on the gains. With current law, Bitcoin itself would be taxed and I hope that changes but as it stands, I avoid taxes with my Roth. So I fund my 401k, and my Roth in addition to buying Bitcoin. Then I also invest aggressively in a brokerage fund that in the short to medium term my investments have outpaced Bitcoin at times. Any that lose money I use to tax harvest. I then take some profits off the table of the high gainers around every second or third year and rotate them into accumulating more Bitcoin. So in the end I have more Bitcoin because of my stock investments
I haven’t been holding as long, my plan is to go 50% dividend ETFs (SCHD, DGRO, VYM) and keep half my stack. I’ve already started converting bitcoin into IBIT and FBTC last year. Trying to spread out the capital gains over a few tax years.
Yes, especially for your self directed IRA. If it’s not an IRA though, there doesn’t seem to be a reason to buy FBTC over real BTC unless you want exposure for less than 4 years. Or if you don’t want to self custody because it’s “too hard” and your willing to take the risk that sometime in the future the ETFs can be using paper bitcoins (like IBIT and Coinbase have been accused of) like gold ETFs have done for the past decade.
I'm not buying again until maybe 2026 if there's a bear market. I don't buy actual BTC often and I haven't bought in years before this. I've mostly been buying FBTC and MST instead, reblancing IRAs and Brokerage accounts.
yep I got some FBTC in my TFSA. I even buy it in my non-tax advantaged accounts.
My work’s 401k is managed by Fidelity. They allow me to put a portion of my 401k into a special account (Brokerage Link) and I can purchase FBTC with it. They won’t let you purchase automatically, so I have to log in once a month and hit a buy button. I would prefer direct BTC on a hardware wallet, but that’s just not a reality today. It’s not perfect, but I try to not let good be the enemy of perfect.
I'm very surprised how little interest/volume there are in BTC options. At market option I bought a few FBTC that is significantly cheaper than the coinbase option equivalent.
So I haven't bought any BTC, but I got into the ETFs when they launched last January. I liquidated a lot of existing stock/IRA municiple fund positions to FBTC, MSTR. But I don't consider that real BTC. I also recently came into some money after leaving a 10+ year career position, from which I recieved a nice severance. When I stopped trading in 2017 I realized the best thing I could do was nothing. Don't sell, don't buy, just HODL and follow (because bitcoin is interesting to me outside the price) HODL. And I kept that philosophy until the ETFs came out.
The ETFs: IBIT, FBTC, or do MultiSig, One on you, one at a family members or in a safety deposit box.
Normies in their IRAs have to buy shit like MSTR and FBTC
>Look up FBTC/IBIT vs MSTR for 1 year performance. Now look at MSTR vs BTC for 1 year performance…
I don't know what you mean by "actual coins". Most ETFs are using custodians like Coinbase. FBTC has self-custody of their coins.
Look up FBTC/IBIT vs MSTR for 1 year performance. Also many institutions can only by Equities/Bonds and cant buy BTC or BTC ETFs
The second I finally sell this FBTC call.
I just bought 372 shares of FBTC in my 401k, I hope my wife doesn’t find out till I have good news!
It's likely but totally up in the air. Last base took months and months to build, but that was ATH and this is just price discovery. I have \~$10k leftover from a rollover that I need to lump into FBTC. Buying here vs under $100k ultimately won't change shit when BTC is at $1M so I'm likely to say fuck it soon.
If I had 5 BTC it would be life changing for me. I’m first of all, I’d live as frugal as possible, happily, for the next 20 years. I’m not materialistic in any way. With the money? I’d invest 1 BTC in MSTR, 1 in FBTC, and 1 I’d sell to support myself financially for a few years. (Yes, I can live on 25,000 USD a year.) The other 2, I’d leave in BTC and let it mature. I’d then spend time in nature and begin leather crafting and tinkering with my interests in carpentry, blacksmithing, and woodworking.
Koinly. It's such a pain in the ass if you actually try to do it correctly. Last year I didn't buy or sell anything to avoid it. Just traded FETH and FBTC in my Roth because taxes are a goddamn nightmare.
My first step into crypto. Sold $10000 worth of QQQ in my Roth IRA today morning and bought FBTC with it. Will be buying bitcoin directly through exchanges $2000 per month from now on.
My first step into crypto. Sold $10000 worth of QQQ in my Roth IRA today morning and bought FBTC with it. Will be buying bitcoin directly through exchanges $2000 per month from now on.
Black rock holds zero bitcoin. Do you even understand how this works?. Coinbase holds All of the bitcoin that blackrocks investors are funding. Coinbase holds the bitcoin. This is why the only bitcoin ETF I bought into is FBTC as they are not relying on a third party to hold the coins.
Ask the plan administrator if an in service rollover is allowed. If yes, you open a traditional IRA with Fidelity. Then, you request a transfer on the Fidelity side. Fidelity sends the request to your plan. Once funded, buy FBTC. Your 401K remains open and will continue to receive contributions.
Just open an IRA and buy FBTC or another ETF. But I personally would only keep a small portion of the total portfolio in BTC. The time tested virtue of diversification is real
Coinbase will be the FTX this cycle... Don't put all your eggs in the same basket guys! FBTC self custody
100% FBTC. DCA'ing started this year
It’s about 25% of my net worth. I’m a business owner, so if you take away my business valuation it’s more like 85% of my net worth. I have four kids, so I try to keep my BTC allocation to as high as I can while still being able to support my kids if it went to zero. If I was single, I would Absolutely be all in. I very strongly believe in BTC. But none of us know the future. So, I have to hedge a little for my kids. I’m very irritated that I can’t get my business 401k to allow it. Drives me crazy. But, I’m close to the threshold where we can move our whole plan over to Fidelity and include FBTC. Anyway, I stack monthly regardless of price and will continue indefinitely.
I did this for my wife. Took her 19 years to make what she DOUBLED in 1 year in FBTC.
Read/listen to Bitcoin Standard Read/listen to Broken Money Read a BTC etf prospectus like FBTC. Learn how mining works Read the Bitcoin white paper Watch/listen to Michael Saylor and Jack Mallers and coin stories and other credible sources. Repeat. Some content takes time to soak in. Ask questions here.
This could easily be me. I'm a newbie who just bought FBTC and whose portfolio is down $900+ in my first 24 hours. Ugh.
Open a custodial Roth IRA for him and purchase FBTC for him. This is what I have done for each of my kids.
For Me: Once ETF’s were approved for the General public I took it seriously. But it is on a short leash until I understand it better. I’ve have 2 positions using Fidelity FBTC ETF. Very Liquid. The majority of shares where picked up on the day Thump was elected. For me it’s a trade and not a full out investment. I do reserve the right to change my mind. 👍. I have taken 2 small profits and now have stop limits which I keep moving up. High Demand with limited supply now. What’s not to like.. I hope it goes to a million too. Why not…
If you hold it, time to sell IBIT for FBTC.
I have FBTC in my Roth IRA for the capital gains tax shielding, but if they end up ending capital gains tax on BTC, that might change.. Either way it's nice to have it in a few spots for safety purposes, but as mentioned if you're interested in self custody, you don't want ETFs.
There is no "best" ETF. They are largely similar. They are spot ETfs meaning they just buy and hold Bitcoins based on customer inflows. Personally I use FBTC because I trust Fidelity and they self custody (most other ETFs use coinbase = single point of failure).
I’ve already swapped my gains from FBTC to FETH. Love that I can do it tax free in a rollover IRA. I still think BTC will double this cycle, but ETH can 3x-4x…
tldr; New data from a crypto insights platform reveals that Bitcoin (BTC) exchange-traded funds (ETFs) experienced their largest net outflows in one day since their launch in January, with $671.9 million withdrawn on December 19th. This marked the end of a 15-day inflow streak for Bitcoin ETFs. Fidelity’s FBTC led the outflows with $208.5 million, while BlackRock’s IBIT ETF remained steady. The outflows coincided with a drop in Bitcoin's price, which fell 4.22% to $97,417, after peaking at $108,000 on December 17th. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Absolutely. Most of my sats are in cold storage and FBTC. I keep a little in a warm wallet, but no more than I would be comfortable carrying equivalent USD cash in my pocket.
Even bought another batch of FBTC to boot.
I first bought Bitcoin in 2011 so I thought I was smart enough to time the market. I loaded up on FBTC in my 401k the day it was approved and I started slowly exiting my position, assuming it would crash after going parabolic, at 85k. I should not have done that. I have bought and sold Bitcoin so many times over the years but honestly at this point I am never selling again. It's clear that it is not going to zero and it's almost certainly going to do as well or better than $SPY.
Nice, if it touches the 80s I'm going 20k more into FBTC.
I'm hoping we stay below $100K until Jan 01 when I can buy more FBTC in my tax free account. Maxed out for 2024.
If you want to buy bitcoin in your roth, buy FBTC or similar. This will allow it to grow tax free.
You are right about the SPY growth rate. You will gain more if it stays at 20% (or even 8%) growth until the next BTC 4-year cycle. But we don't know if the economy is booming or not. We don't know the economic impact of 100% tariffs, Federal budget cuts, changes in immigration policy, etc. (By the way, I am not saying these are good or bad. I invest with the information). In the short run (2 years), SPY may go down. But the money market will stay the same, at least. Then, we can buy FBTC back at the bottom of the 4-year cycle ( Fall 2026) FBTC (none of the US BTC spot ETFs) don't let you convert to BTC. ETFs in Hong Kong lets you convert to BTC.
Yes, I have a Bitcoin ETF, specifically fidelitys FBTC. My understanding is that it is possible to self custody BTC directly in an IRA but you have to do additional paperwork for that. Unless you need the money in the next couple of years, a broader market ETF like SPY or VOO will be better than a money market fund. Money markets are what, around 5% right now? SPY has been crazy like 20-25% the last few years. Historical average is something like 8% I think?
Added Canadian dollar, FBTC, IBIT, privacy policy https://trackyourbtc.com/
Crypto IRA to include self custody checkbook IRAs have incredibly high fees. THey were an option when there no Bitcoin ETFs. Today open a $o fee IRA at Fidelity or Schwab and buy FBTC or IBIT. Done.
Same, about 75% of my stack is in FBTC in a Fidelity a ROTH IRA and the rest in cold storage. I keep a few sats in a warm wallet, but I always move to cold storage once it gets large enough to make me nervous. That might change if they really do wipe out capital gains tax on BTC.
Literally just sold my VTI in my IRA to buy more FBTC....and put a 5% trailing stop order to keep me sane
Tried to stop myself from buying more but I fat fingered a trade and oops $20k transferred to buy more FBTC. Don’t you hate when that happens?
Brb gonna sell all the boomer ETFs in my IRA and fomo buy FBTC
Bought 20 in April 2019 @ 4800 in a Roth BitIRA. USB key was kept in vault literally guarded by armed security guards in Fkn Vegas. 💩 in pants everyday thinking about it. Sold all in March 2021 @61,000. Tranfered cash to personal Roth , sat on it for awhile then purchased Closed end fund GBTC at 50% discount when btc fell to 17k in Jan 23. After GBTC converted to spot ETF the discount was gone and instantly doubled in value and then btc hit 69k again in Mar 24 Sold it all. Bought 42,000 shares of FBTC in Sept 24 @48 when btc was 56k . Sold 20 k shares yesterday at 106. Will hold on the remaining 21k shares until 2030. The key take for all of you is that everything was tax free. I strongly advise you put as much as you can afford in Roth IRA, convert a portion of your 401k to traditional ira then convert that to ROTH. Your older self will be skn ur younger selfs dck when u turn 59 1/2 and sitting on millions$$$$
I like FBTC just because Fidelity holds the cold storage themselves vs most the others use Coinbase
FBTC does have options but I see only monthly it’s not weeklies. I do like the fact that FBTC custodies its own but who’s to say that they’re more reliable than Coinbase. Due to the regulatory issues it’s probably not likely that Fidelity will allow sending bitcoin out of its account in the future as regards buying BTC directly, but I’m worried of continuing to use Robin Hood due to its atrocious customer service when I’ve had an issue. One advantage of bitcoin is the idea of it being on inflationary, but I guess if the ETFs are pig to the Dollar, the real buying power amount should stay the same even if the dollar inflates really. I do wonder with a bit and black rock if coin base collapses, for example, is there any insurance for everyone’s monies which are invested in the fund?
Fidelity's FBTC since they self custody all of their BTC.
I was buying MSTR at and around 120 but sold at 500. It’s down quite a bit now but bitcoins about to go to 125k+ in the next couple weeks so it might not be a bad buy right now if you can get in sub 400, then hold for when bitcoin does that. But everyone that’s still uneducated is certain that MSTR was a bubble that popped and it’s down from here so there’s a lot of short interest in MSTR and they’ll all get burned when MSTR goes back up because bitcoin isn’t done yet. I personally think that MSTR’s market cap to NAV on their Btc holdings ratio is too high right now. And after getting out of MSTR have gone all in on a mix of BITX (2x btc fund) and FBTC(regular btc fund) . I was already in BITX too while I’m MSTR. But now my account is at an insane new high, so I’m lowering risk by holding about 65% regular bitcoin etf to avoid any leverage decay from volatility in BITX. And then about 35% in BITX so that when bitcoin does do it’s thing I’ll still get greater upside exposure.
Yes, thats a big thing for me that made me confident BTC is going to be part of mainstream finance indefinitely, takes away a lot of risks (except centralization of course), I like FBTC, fidelity ETF, feels the most stable and reputable to me.
I went with FBTC because they custody their own Bitcoin (not via Coinbase), and have been in the space for a long time. Already had a Fidelity account, so it made sense.
Yeah I do the same in my TFSA with FBTC
I chose ETF over coin direct storage. My main concern is coinbase’s ability of maintaining its security. plus, i have many other stocks that are easier to manage along the ETFs. the fee for IBIT AND FBTC is 0.25% which is nothing compared to its price appreciation Plus, ETF is required to maintain the ratio of shares. If anything happens to the custodian, etf manager needs to step up and cover. Honestly, etf is more friendly to folks like me. it’s less concerning and worry free
Robinhood (and most exchanges) take a spread (0.5% for Robinhood in/out) so that’s 1%, you could hold the ETF for 4 years (they are 0.25%) before the fees catch up. ETF is even safer imo (I prefer FBTC) Depends on why you’re holding it, keeping it on your own keys is insurance against “the system” but comes with risk of making your own private keys.
I somewhat agree so I have a split of ETF and self-custodial bitcoin. Anything I want to invest in bitcoin after maxing out a ROTH in FBTC goes to self-custodial bitcoin.
Personally I went with Fidelity's FBTC fund, but I would advise you do your own research.
Ahh sorry. US in my case. I’m legitimately curious if playing monopoly with MSTR actually has some tax efficiency compared to FBTC or IBIT. I’m not sure how it would. MSTR just feels to me like paying someone else as a proxy to leverage like crazy and buy BTC - in return, have to pay a huge premium for that proxy. I don’t understand that investment strategy at all.
Plenty of reputable ETFs; most with comparable fees. I use FBTC. Strictly from a financial standpoint, compared to self custody the ETFs become less attractive the longer you hold and the less in tax you expect to pay upon liquidation. For every percent you expect to pay in tax would be the max numbers of years you'd want to hold in the ETF.
Please explain the tax advantages? Seems like holding FBTC as a proxy is better than holding MSTR at a steep premium.
tldr; US Spot Bitcoin ETFs have seen significant growth since their launch in January, with cumulative net inflows surpassing 500,000 BTC, valued at over $50.5 billion. These ETFs now hold more than 2.5% of Bitcoin's circulating supply. BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust became the fastest ETF to exceed $50 billion in assets under management, achieving this in 228 days. Recent inflows have been strong, with Fidelity's FBTC leading the way. The growth is attributed to increasing institutional interest and a recent Bitcoin price rally. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
BlackRock (IBIT) Daily BTC Flows: +394.8m: BBG iShares Bitcoin ETF now well over $4bil inflows since Thanksgiving... Just that $4bil alone would make IBIT the 2nd best ETF launch of 2024 (behind FBTC)
I have my 401k thru Schwab and invest in FBTC through my PCRA account. Up >$400k this year so far through a combination of MSTR and FBTC gains.
Just get a direct ETF like FBTC
That still doesn’t explain why you sold a hard money (bitcoin) and then gave it to a brokerage to put into FBTC (an IOU, not bitcoin, and softer/weaker than real bitcoin). Sounds like you’re not able to listen to any advice and just wanted to announce a false “I’m in” premise that your ego is preventing you from considering any adjustments to improve your 30-year outlook. You’re in a great position to have generational wealth, but a Step 1 is to first humble yourself.
FBTC is superior in that they self custody and do not use Coinbase as a custodian.
I have both IBIT and FBTC in my Roth as my picks
Leverage ETFs erode from volatility, they are not for long term holding. Stick with IBIT or FBTC
Sorry i bought FBTC this year but I bought some actual bitcoin and left on Coinbase 2 years ago. After ETFs came out I just rolled them out of coinbase as dollars to deposit in my brokerage
I mean I am currently in although it’s a smaller portion of my Networth. That $200k of stocks. About $30k is now FBTC even though I only put in $11k 2 years ago
You just buy them like a stock, there is IBIT ( my favorite) from Blackrock, there is also FBTC from Fidelity and 10 others
My 401k is 100% FBTC, if that's not an option for you then you can consider what you're thinking but it comes with a lot of risks. When you switch providers, you should be able to transfer your old account into an IRA, within that IRA you can buy BTC efts, you'll avoid all the taxes and fees involved with pulling out a 401k early. Another protental option is take a loan out on your 401k to buy btc, bu that has its own perks and pitfalls.
It's absolutely fine. I own some FBTC in my tax-free account and real crypto on exchanges. Some people are far more into the whole culture surrounding Bitcoin than others and that's fine too, but I think most people are just trying to make some money for themselves and their family.
You can buy IBIT or FBTC. Both are spot ETFs available through Schwab, Fidelity, etc Roth accounts
I was looking at Fidelity BTC EFT FBTC. I may actually buy it in my Roth IRA but continuing DCA BTC.
FBTC and MSTR holdings, myself.
For sure and an attack would impact the price. Personally it is why I have FBTC not IBIT in my IRA. Granted I would still be impacted by the price action of any news report I just don't like the idea of everyone's coins being at coinbase.
Yes I have. I own IBIT and FBTC within my Roth for this very reason. The majority of my holdings are still in actual Bitcoin but I'm funding my Roth anyways. Might as well allocate some of those funds to the spot ETFs. I've bought into each since day 1 launch and DCA'd in monthly since then
Some FBTC calls to amplify performance 🤌
Fidelity is always a big W. FBTC in a tax advantage account >>>
We're all adults and don't need to be scolded for putting FBTC in our IRA.