Reddit Posts
The full privacy stack in 2026: Silent Payments for receiving, CoinJoin for spending, Lightning for everything in between
After an ATH for ants, are we gonna get the full bear market still?
A universal ZK verification layer that could make L2 proof verification a lot cheaper - no trusted setup needed
Bitcoin v0.01 ALPHA — If you could go back to 2009 with this file, what would you do differently?
I backtested 2,000+ YouTube trade calls. Most "Gurus" have a Win Rate worse than a coin flip, but there are also unicorns who beat the market
Complete quests. Unlock $40,000 in Rewards. Only on Core — Walkthrough (SP, Sub EN)
Bitcoin is only up ~53% on the 4 year chart... or ~36% adjusted for inflation.
Bitcoin is only up ~53% on the 4 year chart... or ~36% adjusted for inflation.
XRP Undervalued by 6.8% – AQVE Model Flags Oversold Zone and $4.50 Post-Adoption Potential
Is there a website out there that prices stocks in Bitcoin?
SP500 and Nasdaq going ATH while crypto down and stagnant, what happened with the correlation ?
10 reasons to buy Robinhood (HOOD) at $105/share
"I invest in the SP 500 because I don't understand Bitcoin." Try asking them what each of those 500 companies does
Your family trying to figure out your SP backup
Volume Divergence Hints at $WКSP Move Toward the $5 Gap
$WКSP Sitting on a $4 Launchpad - Gap Still Unfilled Above
Borrowing against 403B and dumping into btc yeyeye
I will never understand small capital guys being BTC maxi
How to invest in the stock market without going through an application broker
Difundir ideia do bitcoin através da cultura Underground
“Bitcoin isn’t decentraized it’s just a speculative play that follows tech 🤓”
Am I the only worried about significantly reduced volatility of BTC to USD?
Mentions
Why didn't you sell a small amount, like 1M and put it into something safe like gold for SP500?
So you spent 15K to buy stocks 6 years ago and many of the tech stocks in SP500 blew up over 250% in returns and you're mad you didn't get bitcoin? I've seen shilling before but when you low-key bet against your shill, I'm genuinely confused what the end game is here.
Why? Do the same with SP500 and compare.
If SP500 crashes we are going back to 30k BTC. How this could be bullish for crypto?
These graphs are misleading. Most of the return came until 2020 and last 5 year returns are just on par with SP500 returns. Can’t expect returns like these going forward
> And here's the part the haters never want to deal with: not only is Bitcoin not going to zero, it's going to infinity. Why? Because the currency it's priced in is being printed to infinity. That's true for *everything* you fucking imbecile. One day, a loaf of bread will be worth an infinity amount of money. *** The question is the *rate*. If investing in Bitcoin gives you a return lower than the conventional alternatives, or in a sequence of volatility that means you cannot *use* the gains before you die, it's useless. There's a reason the SP500 is so popular. It's the most consistent wealth creation vehicle in human history.
If you had DCAd over that time period you would have beat the SP500. What are you talking about?
I agree, and froth will always exist in growth companies which is what Elon promises, if you claim more than the entire US GDP as your TAM and get to frontrun entrance to the SP500 because half of wallstreet and silicon valley are incentived and gonna make shocking gains from its liquidity dump when it was only worth $120 Billion during its capital raise in 2024. The dump will likely happen but the true scam will be when SPCX,investors are able to cash out when the public market drops it 50% because any one invested private will still make 20x on the low side.
Wrong, it depends on the volatility of the asset. For something like the SP500, which went mostly straight up over the last 15 years, lump sum is better. For a highly volatile asset like Bitcoin, you are much worse off when buying at a cycle peak. DCA leads to better returns.
If you zoom out far enough, every system of currency is a scheme. The dollar’s power is from the belief that it has value, simple as that. Do you think all of the old people allocating BTC to 5% of their portfolios/retirement funds know diddly squat about blockchain technology or give a flying fk about decentralization? The answer is a big fat no. It might still matter to some, but the majority of money going in is doing so to set & forget. In time, BTC will behave exactly like a slightly more volatile SP500 ETF if it doesn’t already. Tokenization and stocks IMO will have a convergence point where it all just blends to being the same crap. And we’re already seeing tokenized stocks, so we’re kind of already there.
If you look at the 5 year chart bitcoin outperforms the SP500
Pretty much all the comments are bullcrap. Potential reasons for the dip: 1) Higher future ROIs are getting priced in. SP500 would've dipped as well but people are still bullish on AI especially with nVidias recent news. Brace yourself for SP500, no one can tell you when but if you saw a massive drop don't be surprised. 2) Top Iranian exchanges were sanctioned even more brutally than before 3) Conflicts on middle east *still* getting reactions even though market had become less sensitive about it. 4) BTC chart is bearish. 1 or 2 weeks ago when BTC was around 77k I posted a TA analysis of the Potential dip. You can read it here:
> At this point its been 5 years since 2021 and every single person who bought btc during 2021 did a poor decision, you'd be much better with an SP500 index fund Spy is up 70% in 5 years and bitcoin is up 110% (even after this "crash") Cool story bro, I'll stick with bitcoin though
if you want to sell now you understand nothing, then its better for you to sell and buy something else, maybe go and buy SP500 on their ATH, i mean what can go wrong right?
Since May 10, bitcoin is down 35% but what's more interesting is that SP500 is up 35%. Essentially you'd need over 200% to just "break even" with SP500.
I really feel feels like people forget what a bear market in bitcoin feels like. I started buying in 2021 and my average is probably 45-50k, so even in this market I’m still up and although it doesn’t feel great that over the exact same timeframe, the S&P 500 has done better. It’s not appropriate to only compare to the market low because that’s where we are right now. Go back six months and I had massively outperformed the SP 500. Go forward six months, and that will likely also be true. Like another commentator said, imagine someone who was buying around 2017 and had an average price around 15 k. Five years later in the bear market things would look similar to how they do now. Things really aren’t that different. What would be different is that if in a year or two the price hasn’t shown a massive recovery.
bitcoin always did a 10x if you halved the time since the beginning. So when it was 5 years old, it took 2,5 years for a 10x. when btc was 10 years old, it did a 10x after 5 years. Now 2025 btc was 16 years old, so 8 years until another 10x. 10x in 7 years from now on - good luck with your SP ETF, if you are lucky you get a 2x in 7 years.
Yeah so most stocks and funds including the SP pay you dividends. Since even when the price is down you get a monthly check directly into your account. I have a pretty decent portfolio that automatically reinvests the dividends and you get a percentage of your total stock back each month as a share of the profit of the business. If your portfolio is not diversified I recommend adding an index fund there to keep you safe from big fluctuations.
People can choose to lend them money with the understood risk that they could lose it. If I buy shares of the SP500 and it goes down, I lose money. If I buy shares of MSTR and BTC goes down, I lose money I have no idea why anyone would lend saylor money because all he does is buy BTC with it, it they do
Tax fraud AND charged with investment fraud back during the dotcom bubble for cooking the books running the same company. Saylor is a white collar criminal and somehow this community decided yeah let's trust THIS GUY with being the #1 custodian of this bizarre fugazi. Outside of Tether fake printing $100 billion in USDT "liquidity" and brokers like Coinbase locking accounts and stopping sales during volatility, the billions that MSTR has injected into the BTC market is largely why this entire ponzi of crypto hasn't collapsed yet. Please let this shit company fraud die and leave the SP500 as quick as Enron.
why don't you just invest in SP500 instead?
good question, short answer is no - BIP352 is built on secp256k1 and ECDH, same curve Bitcoin uses everywhere. so its not quantum resistant, but neither is anything else in Bitcoin righ now. if quantum becomes a real threat the whole protocol needs an upgrade, SP wouldnt be singled out. the address reuse problem and quantum are kind of separate concerns tbh thanks for the learnbitcoin link btw, good resource
If it was me I would sell it and invest it in SP500 or Nasdaq.
I DCA because I don't know how much further it will go down (and maybe it won't). You think I should instead lump sum when it reaches 50k? What if it never does? I DCA exactly to not time the market. The plan is to consistently DCA until BTC reaches 100k (or should I reduce that target amount? Unclear). Then DCA out when it has been 15 to 18 months after halving. Hopefully it reaches at least 200k, I am aiming to be out fully at 240k... As for the attribution of my portfolio, why 35-30% would be bad? As of today, about 50% is in SP500, 15% spreaded out in other ETFs.
I mean, if you invested a sum of money montly in the last 6 years monthly for example, you would have a better ROI with Bitcoin than SP500. Even better if you invested nVidia and worse if you invested in Ethereum. But that's doesn't mean Ethereum is a bad investment or nVidia is a good investment.
Looks like OP got deleted account? You're not OP are you? All I know is, if I had an average at $120k.. I'd be DCA'ing and averaging down hard right now at these prices. I'm still holding, too. No plans to sell. I refuse to invest into the overly tech heavy overvalued, speculated, SP500 that is also getting pumped by retirement plans. SP500 at ATHs -- BTC at like a 40% or so discount from it's ATHs.. and if the SP500 is being inflated by what I mentioned above (mainly the speculation, but retirement accounts, too), then why not just go ahead and invest into the "most speculative asset of all time, Bitcoin"? especially while it's at such great discount? Not being rude to you by the way, great job holding and keep that up! Just expressing some thoughts on why it seems like a better idea to be buying BTC at the moment, \*IMO\*.
True. The best you can expect is SP500 gains in long term, hoping people wont realize its just a Ponzi scheme without real world use.
It's a better alternative than buying the overpriced SP500 that's in an AI bubble at its current price versus SP500 ATHs. It hasn't aged yet, but it will.
That's the whole problem. At some point people will switch to other assets that still have the promise of a 10x, Bitcoin doesn't look like it anymore. What you're describing would be more or less a slow climb (like SP500 and gold) paired with crazy volatility
People need to stop hating the bears. BTC and ETH both have huge market capitalizations. We need to see a drop in price to get more X value. If they just pump slowly, it will be no different from gold or the SP500. >Let's pray together for: 2026: BTC 50k.......ETH 1k 2028: BTC 180k.....ETH 3.5k
He seems to following more of a Robert Kawasaki grifter path more than I'd like. Cuban was worth 4B when he bought the Mavs, he was reportedly worth 1-2 B. He is now worth 6 B. generaously, he's grown his wealth by 6X (a large portion of the growth was his ego purchase, the Mavs) Since that time, the SP500 has grown from 1500 in 2000 to 7500 now, a 5X. How is he a shark if he's barely beat the market over 26 years.
Long haul? Thing is crypto is below 5 year SP500 gains. How much longer do you need to figure it out that time of explosive crypto gains are over.
I do around 50/50 of my stock allocation to SP500 and FTSE All World. Just my opinion and NFA; the SP500 is a very safe bet. I am very confident in Americas ability and willingness to keep the market afloat by any means necessary.
If you are flexible and have time, BTC. Then QQQ, then SP500.
This is the difference between a speculative investment and a more secure one. BTC is speculative. Far more potential upside and far more potential to the downside. I don't actually think it will fail in the long term, which is obviously why I'm here. SP500 is much less volatile and has a far greater chance of continuing to go up. I own both. More in the sp500 and all world.
Thanks! The Berkeley ZK course is still a great foundation the FRI / IOP material there hasn't really gone stale. For QChain specifically, here's roughly what I leaned on. Framework I built on Winterfell rather than rolling FRI from scratch. The AIR itself is mine that's where the interesting design work is. Their examples directory is genuinely the best practical STARK code I've read. Papers writeups that actually helped: Anatomy of a STARK by Alan Szepieniec best tutorial if you want to build one The original Rescue-Prime paper for the hash AIR design Vitalik's STARKs series holds up surprisingly well as intuition Things that have changed since 2023 Plonky2 Plonky3 are now the serious hash-based proving frameworks to know The whole space has shifted from SNARK vs STARK toward what's your prover stack RISC Zero, SP1, Jolt, etc. are all using STARK-style proofs under the hood Lookup arguments LogUp, Lasso are everywhere now
I hold it because it still has potential to rise highly in price, higher than the SP500, more than just a hedge against inflation.
You are looking at fiat in a bubble of a singular country. You have to think of it as a global basket. Each country’s role is to attract foreign currency to their local currency. The US dominates right now and are able to sustain a high M2 money supply because the inflationary action is counteracted by foreign currencies being sold for US dollars to buy US assets. An example would be the Yen carry trade where US firms were able to borrow from Japan at insanely low rates to fund equity purchases which creates a feedback loop of domestic growth and further debasement of the Yen. The US prints through bond auctions and interbank loans without much inflation because other countries are incurring the inflation instead. When a British citizen sells GBP to buy USD to buy SP500 index funds he is debasing his own country’s currency. Through this feedback loop the US currency maintains its strength in big part because every other country is weakening their own while fueling US equity growth. When a country like Japan can’t efficiently utilize their excess capital, a high growth country like the US or China will take advantage of that excess equity. This is why having a high savings rate is not very productive economically. Growth is fueled through credit financing. Companies are encouraged and at times forced to borrow for capex to shrink the idle excess capital in the global basket.
compare and do it for the SP500
Its like 2018 all over again, SP500 getting new ATHs while BTC stays down
That is the interesting subplot. SP500 hitting all-time highs was driven by AMD earnings which is essentially an AI infrastructure bet. So yes, AI is pulling capital from crypto into equities today. The question is whether that trade keeps working or whether crypto catches up when the AI buildout needs the kind of neutral settlement rails only blockchain provides.
That's the million dollar question, isn't it. Could be Strategy propping up the market + people hoping to jump on what could be another swing to ATH. Or with the SP500 on a rally during an oil crisis, people might be thinking risk assets are back on the table again, or could be that bill the senate signed, or liquidity exiting bonds, or entirely driven by the options gamblers as I've seen in one analysis. Like the other guy said, in the end it's supply and demand.
SP500 dragged btc down again, but its still up today, while sp500 is in the red
Just put your money in a HYSA or the SP500. Don’t act like you’re being gatekept by billionaires. Staking shitcoins for 8% APY while they tank like SOL is hilarious cycle cope.
Bitcoin isn't over. Getting rich super fast is over, long ago. If you want to buy SP500 you can do it, but it's not as stable as you think. It has collapsed too, and if you buy at the top, it will take years even decades to come back.
That's an inefficient way to buy, and it *still* beat the SP500, which a quick search says is only up 70-80% for the last 5 years.
Considering how weak BTC has been for past five years, those hedge funds are only in to milk the filthy poors. Just look at it even at peak BTC only barely outperformed SP500, and lost big time to every tech stock index.
How is BTC considered recovered when it is about 60% of the value of its ATH while SP500 and NASDAQ are all time highs?
speak for yourself. I am definitely not waiting for anything. I was advised to get some exposure, so I bought a tiny bit of spot ETF, just to track the price. don't really care if it goes up or down. I'm mostly in SP500 anyway. reading this sub just for fun compared to the gold sub at least there are no endless discussions about fake bitcoin. so that's a relief. gold bugs are always in doubt, never sure what they have. they keep posting pics of those obviously fake coins they got on ebay for half the price. with these internet based things everyone is somehow certain they have the real coins.
People like to stick with winners. Original BTC is like the SP500 of the crypto game. No other crypto is worth “marrying” as an investment.
You mean young BTC and old SP500
"Now my biggest fear, and I hope I’m wrong, is that down the line bitcoin won’t make me wealthy but will just end up making me have the same life as I currently have." I mean, lets asume longterm average inflation is around 6-7% which fits with the global monetary expansion of the US Dollar M2 [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL) the sp500 will mostly hold your purchasing power over long term, maybe you will make small gains... To really get more and more wealthy, you need a huge amount of money in the sp500 to really feel a difference after many years. with Bitcoin its way more easy and you don't need the same huge amount of money as with SP500: [https://x.com/JoeConsorti/status/2047007680267530655](https://x.com/JoeConsorti/status/2047007680267530655) "The CAGR of bitcoin's 200-week MA is consistently 30%+. Over the last decade, the lowest it has drifted is 29% over the last 4 years, which measures from near the 2021 top." So you still are making great gains with bitcoin if you hold it longterm. I'm a longterm hodler, still working, but basically I could upgrade my lifestyle every 3-4 years when we reach new all time highs. At first I bought luxury shit I always wanted, cars and so on, but fast realized its only materialism and doesn't give you long term content and happiness, then after that I realized what I always wanted was freedom, freedom to do what I really want in my life. Not being dependent on some employer. So right now I'm working towards being free from work, or "FIRE" as some call it. My honest opinion, but not financial advice is: I really believe if you have an average job, and you are no high earning tech guy from silicon valley with 150k-200k and more wage, then bitcoin is the only real good chance on escaping the system of having to work until you are ill or dead.
You know there are other things like macroeconomic factors apart that influences BTC price right? and with the ETFs much more. 2022 Bear Market : SP500 dumped 30-40%, FED doing rate hikes left and right and we had a very strong dollar. 2026 Bear Market : SP500 barely dipped before going to new highs, FED unlikely to do any rate hikes this year... and last a very weak dollar.
Bitcoin has been running for more hours than the SP500 ... and has created more wealth.
SP500 and NASDAQ at ATHs... BTC not even at 80k
SP500 confidently broke 7k. It's a good sign for BTC.
How many people are able to get 2.5M in the SP500? A lot more than you think. There are tons of us. Check out r/fire
SP500 is +63% in the same period of time bro... with much less volatility and NO -80% drawdowns...
Im comparing the Safe Withdrawal Rate of SP500 index fund (4 percent rule) to the floor growth withdrawal principle I explained. You can withdraw 100k usd from 5 btc starting today. Yes your stack will shrink. Most heavily in the early years. But your probabilities are better than 2.5M in SP500. That’s the argument.
> demand side is still the bigger variable imo. Ppl expect a lot of bearish headwinds, e.g., the summer dry season, Trump losing the midterms, the SP500 repeating its 2022 by bottoming in Sept/October and pulling crypto down with it, an oil supply shock from Iran, a new Fed chair may not be dovish, etc. There is so much uncertainty, no one trusts a sustained rally.
Convince me why I should trade crypto instead of SP500 options. I do like the 24/7 of it
Yield-starving savers? 12% is more than the average SP500! The yields is simply too generous (too good to be true). I hope it works out since I’m betting on STRC. I’m hoping STRC brings so much Bitcoin to MSTR, that it will push the price back up.
1. Define a selling price (SP) 2. Now ladder your sells up to that price - 20% below your SP, sell 20% of your stack; 10% below your SP sell 30%; 3. at your sell price readjust, if sentiment is bullish, sell only 20-40%, If sentiment is bearish, sell remaing 60% 4. Repeat step 1-3. 5. Enjoy your profits
I’d hold cash and wait for the SP to drop 10%.
On Jan 3, 2020 the SP500 (SPX) closed at 3,234.85. Today is closed at 6,581.00 That chart shows a -7% return for SPX. I'm guessing they picked a random end date where the SPX had a negative return and BTC had a positive one because that table is complete garbage.
All this stat shows is that Bitcoin had greater gains in a bull cycle, Gold had an unusual period where it outperformed about ever asset which happens like once every few decades and SP500 gave steady gains. About what you'd expect.
any of the previous ones. it really is that repetitive 2016 halving led to 20k prices in 2017, followed by a bear market from 2018-2020 2020 halving led to 60k prices during late 2020-2021, with a bearish market that followed during 2022-2023 (aligned with the 19% fall the SP500 experienced that year) 2024 halving led to 120k prices in early 2025, and now we're in the bear market (concidentially aligned with global geopolitical turmoil)
Yeah I'm no charting genius but I tend to base my buying on long time frame data and I apply that to the stock market as well. Just something very simple like the monthly RSI going back 10 years shows us that 2018, 2022 and now are all great buy zones for BTC. You can apply the same strategy to the SP500 or All World indexes and as long as you have faith in the long term you're going to be alright. I would say this is just marginally better than DCA which is also fine. Just my 2 sats
Overvalued SP500. No proof of work for gold or silver.
SP500 drilling and the Dollar going parabolic.
welcome! The big thing is just having a routine and sticking with it, especially when you’re new. Most people start off buying randomly or chasing the trend which usually ends up with them panic selling... If you’re into learning as you go, you might like risk-based strategies instead of just throwin in $1k right away,like scaling buys and sells based on how “risky” the market is at the moment. There’s a project called alphasquared that does this for stuff like btc eth, SP500 etc so you make bigger buys when stuff’s quieter and smaller ones as markets heat up. It’s less “all in,” more chill and mechanical. Get as much info as you can and decide if you wanna go slow/steady, or if you want to swing for those crazy bets,just don’t go in blind.
With the amounts of savings I have, I won't retire at a 10% a year in the SP 500. BTC is either gonna take me there, or not. But at least, there is a chance.
wont happen Bitcoin closely follows SP500, and a majority of tech such as the MAG7 are super weak and have exhausted fundamentals, AI is cooling a little, and therefore there are no real retail buyers active at the given moment. And no, Trump isn't gonna save us with announcing/tweeting anything the blasts us to 100K, if anything, hell Truth Social tweet us into a 30% drop like October 10th lol, especially with Iran-US tensions heating..
>It’s almost underperformed the SP500 since the 2017 peak This has got a lot o be satire right? So you intentionally pick the absolute worst price point to start the test then say the gains from that price isn't even that impressive? Wtf lmfao
It’s almost underperformed the SP500 since the 2017 peak, only tens of percentage points away.
It's a choice to own MSTR and it's a choice to own crypto assets. Big asset managers choose not to own crypto assets, that's just a reality. MSTR isn't even a SP 500 company, they're small potatoes.
Everything is red today, SP500 also down by 1%
Sorry to hear, leverage is dangerous. Besides all the things I could say about money not being everything, keep in mind you’re never truly starting from scratch. You learned from mistakes, and you’ll take that into next time. You’ll be more wary of leverage, you’ll adjust how you make risk assessments. What really is X’s risk? How can you look at it from different perspectives to get a better assessment? Is X’s downside risk really worth the upside possibility? It always helps me to compare a prospective investment to more standard investments with a narrower range of outcomes. Compare X’s risk/reward to that of the SP500/DOW, you’re favorite large cap tech and industrial, and beyond that a simple money market/savings ~3.5-4% guaranteed returns. Hang in there and make time for hobbies outside investing.
Allocation and not quantity is what to be looking at. Do not have everything in one basket. The allocation for BTC is up to your risk tolerance and conviction. Just be sure to be clear on the risk profile of BTC. Compare it to something like the SP500 or DOW. Are the expected/desired gains worth the difference in risk profile between the two assets? And given the different profile, what percent of your assets should really be allocated to the high risk option? For me it’s low single digits
It depends on a lot of factors if bitcoin will succeed in the future as the technology is evolving, but I don't think it is wrong investment or anything. I am buying bitcoin as well and think it will be useful in the future as well, but who knows. The question is if the stocks are safer than BTC, many people will tell you that it is, but look at the AI bubble currently. You are buying SP500, but huge % of it is just AI companies.
Dude, it dipped about $1,000 for like an hour, and now it's back up near where it started. The SP500 dipped at open, and Bitcoin followed like it often does. SP500 rebounded, and so did Bitcoin.
SP500 is close to ATH and cant go up for more than 6 months. It will go down, and take whole crypto market on bear ride. $30k is the way.
You are delusional. You are paying for a managed fund that didn’t even beat the SP500. I’m not buying that you’re this ignorant. This must be a troll. Look at how much arkk has dropped since post Covid gains. Even a monkey picking stocks blind could have done well in that market. Don’t be a troll.
Is that you Kathie? ARKW is -33% in 5Y while the SP500 is up 75% and NVDA is up over 1100%. What the hell stock market are you looking at?? Kathie even managed to do -20% in last year's bull lmao. She might be the only person who lost money on NVDA shares in the past 5 years. She's worse than a broken clock.
I think the best way is comparing DCA to DCA, and its not looking good, 5 years monthly DCA is basically the same return for BTC and SP500.
If you use Bitcoin for that, why not use SP500 or real state or gold? Bitcoin is money and it should be use as money imo.
No, lump sum, in monthly DCA the return is basically the same in both SP500 and BTC over the alst 5 years.
That's a bit disappointing I know, we all waited for better upside on BTC, like 200k, 150k never happened. Considering those new data for me i considering more trying to have better entry and exit , but also i am in full DCA mode in the SP500 and never look at it.
SP500 and others are close to ATH, risk of stock market entering bear mode is high. If this happens BTC will face more looses.
So you are basically expecting a V shape recover while SP and Nasdaq are about to drop. Alright
Please don't. Invest in an SP500 ETF. Your 50 year old self will thank you.
Currently, SP500 and BTC are not currencies. Invest where you feel comfortable, for your peace of mind. You know best how much risk you can tolerate. We are all different.