FIRE

wkndatbernardus

Well, I'm about to FIRE at 45 with ~20% BTC and ~80% total US stock market, so I'll be a pretty good test case. I lost about 40% of my BTC value during this downturn so my plan is to initially withdraw only from my equity index bucket and then, when BTC recovers, start withdrawing from that bucket. At current spending, I can withdraw solely from my equities for about 2 years before I have to touch any BTC.

brendan_satsfire

I’m like you - I’ll always be building something. But it’s better to be able to *choose* to do so, rather than to *have* to just to keep the lights on. That’s the “FI” in FIRE and a big part of what stacking sats to retire is all about (satsFIRE).

MartyrForMyLove

I'm coast FIRE and own BTC. The problem with BTC is its volatility also makes my entire net worth volatile. For that reason it's difficult to truly be mostly BTC and FIRE because the assumptions don't calculate well. For consistency sake I still go heavy on ETFs and BTC makes up about 1/3 of my investment portfolio.

Reasonable_Leg_4664

If someone is about to FIRE, the conventional fiat system has served them well. I think the problem with a lot of BTC people is that they’re looking to get rich quick and they can get wrecked. I’d argue that most people are better off with the slow and steady conventional retirement system. Owning hard assets is the way to win, stocks, real estate, bitcoin. Bitcoin is awesome for that but the volatility is too much for most to handle and the people with the amount of invested capital to withstand the volatility can do so because they’ve already been more successful than most and aren’t leveraging or investing money they need soon. I saw something today that said the middle class shouldn’t be buying bitcoin and it made me think. It’s kind of a paradox, that middle class buying bitcoin could be a way to supercharge and catch up, but it’s also much more of a gamble than someone in upper MC or top 10% of American wealth. If you have the testicular fortitude, it’s a great investment. But I see it as a slice of the pie, not the whole thing.

cphpc

“Seems” like it eh? Here’s what it is. Either they don’t own any. They own a lot and are already FIRE’d or they own some but arent saying it. My bet is the latter 2.

Inner-me

Theres nothing wrong but it's just very different from the $$$ range of the community I'm used to (Mainly /FIRE)

guten_pranken

100% spot on Lfmao. Saw numerous comments in FIRE subreddit talking about diversifying and moving more into gold and silver lfmaoooooo because they were way up.

derbyfan1

0.5 in 10 years will be FIRE if you live a conservative life. 0.1.. not so.

AutoModerator

Post is by: Ultrayano and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1qpdcmh/serious_ethereum_vs_solana_in_2026_technical_and/ Hello r/CryptoCurrency I would like to ask and start a discussion in terms of **Ethereum** and **Solana** and how they fare against each other. Growth is still a factor here, but exposure is much more important to me right now, which directly translates into growth long-term. # Context I feel like right now we are in a phase of a heavy transition into a future, like we only had it during the **".com Bubble"**. The transition includes major technologies like **AI** but also **Blockchains** and thus Cryptocurrencies as a whole. The reason that this feeling is stronger than before, is that banks and financial institutions started to see Cryptocurrencies as a liability to their business model, since **yields** are much higher, when invested into a **stablecoin**, compared to a **bank**. With the political and economical landscape right now being really rocky, we might experience one of the biggest wealth transfer in a long while in the coming 5 years. As a investor myself and also a technical guy, I want to have enough exposure into the right things, rather than gamble my life away. I don't believe to be one of the people that are the next "Warren Buffett", but my life-goal is to reach FIRE as young as possible, to life a self-fulfilling life. I don't really care about expensive materialistic stuff, but about the autonomy that wealth can buy, so supercars or even Yachts are entirely uninteresting for me. The goal is to reach FIRE with a yearly return enough to give a family of 4 a comfortable life. # Discussion points In the current landscape there are mainly three major players that are talked about a lot in this space. The first one being * Bitcoin - for obvious reasons and being the grandfather of cryptocurrencies * Ethereum - as a major player and currently the main candidate to be the future world computer * Solana - the younger competitor of Ethereum with a theoretical throughput of about 10x that of Ethereum Ethereum is often cited as the battle-tasted stable system in the space, while trying to fulfill a solution to the Blockchain trilemma, namely "**Decentralization**", "**Scalability**" and "**Security**". Vitalik Buterin very recently said, that they finally solved the trilemma and rolling out a solution mid-year in the "**Glamsterdam**" upgrade, which nudges Ethereum closer to the final solution. Ethereum heavily relies on L2 solutions compared to having everything on the main chain. The mainchain is said to reach 10k TPS after the upgrade with L2s reaching 100k+ TPS, which is already well above today's levels with for example Visa. Solana on the other hand is frequently cited as the high-throughput powerhouse of the ecosystem, engineered specifically as a "monolithic" architecture that prioritizes speed and low costs. It compromises on security and thus doesn't need many nodes to be down, for the Blockchain to be entirely down, but all of it is on the main chain. Solana wants to solve their reliability issues with the upgrade "**Firedancer**" which is also said to lift the throughput to a staggering 1M+ TPS in lab tests. From a security perspective, Ethereum is the clear winner for high value transactions since it's stability and security are second to none compared to Solana, while Solana is the clear winner for fast and low value retail transactions like monthly payments for example. From a technical and Blockchain purist view, Solana does seem like a "fancier server" with high risk of wealth being locked away forever. While Ethereum is not perfect in this regard, it adheres more to the purist philosophy of blockchain. Solana also does need insanely higher specs (\~6+ cores, 256GB+ RAM, 10Gbps symmetric internet) compared to Ethereum (technically runs on a Raspberry Pi) to have a node, while 32 Ethereum isn't that low anymore too. # Verdict From the perspective of maturity and stability Ethereum does clearly win the race of being the global backbone of the futures financial system, especially with Blackrocks BUIDL PoC among other projects. Investors start to treat it more like a "**blue chip investment**" nowadays tho, since while L2 solutions are one of the biggest strengths of Ethereum, it's also on of the biggest hampers to growth and is is seen as reliable and stable "slow investment". L2 solutions don't really need Ethereum as fuel, which is why a lot of things can be done extremely cheap or in a way that bypasses Ethereum as cryptocurrency entirely, while still relying on the backbone itself. Solana however, even with less stability is said to be poised for the mass. Since everything is running on the mainchain and uses Solana as the de-facto fuel, it is said to be a riskier bet, but with the potential of explosive growth. It's not made to be a stable asset (yet) tho. Ethereum is often compared to IBM (boring but stable) while Solana sits in-between being the next Sun Microsystems (huge for the time, but failed) or the next Google in the ecosystem. To reach FIRE fast, one could argue to put everything into Solana for growth in the next years. But the healthy path would make a 80/20 or 70/30 split the most efficient and safe for high growth. I've known Bitcoin since 2012, but was still a kid back then, while I also knew about Ethereum starting in 2017 and am well aware of the whole DAO debacle that happened. I've also known Solana since the early days when it had a valuation of around 20$ per SOL, but treated is a a gamble since the technicals (reliability) were historically seen as not good and it also got a lot of critique for the way it's architected. I know more about Ethereum, than I do about Solana, so I'm open to learn. I've seen many promising chains like NEO (formerly Antshares) rise and die, so I always treated Solana in a similar way. **I'd love to discuss the technicals, the exposure and risks, the growth possibilities and also learn more about those systems.** *I'm well aware, that there are competitors like Cardano, Polkadot and Avalanche, but Cardano is the closest to the two others while Avalanche is the furthest in terms of adoption, so please refrain to shill those unless explicitly necessary for the discussion.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

brendan_satsfire

Just want to say a massive thank you firstly for the kind words 🙏 And yes, totally agree about adding in the power law! Great suggestion. I thought about that pre launch and I’m definitely going to implement soon. It’ll be one of the options you can select for “bitcoin paradigms” along with the Saylor 30% CAGR option already there. I agree with you, those calculators are great and I’ve used them before as well. The only drawback is they don’t model other assets, and I’m not 100% in bitcoin so I couldn’t use those tools exclusively. So that’s my goal: I want satsfire.app to handle all the bitcoin modeling AND stocks/bonds/cash (+ more soon) so people can use one tool instead of several for FIRE planning. Thanks again for your feedback! Stay tuned, making updates every day.

Generationhodl

THank you very much, I'm also active in the Fire Subs, and its 100% true that people see Bitcoin as the pure devil lol. I just rarely see other bitcoiner comment that they are retired or want to retire on bitcoin. You get mostly downvoted to hell lol Its a lot of salty people. They saved their money in Index Funds for 30 Years to reach 1 Million $ while some bitcoiners do it in like 5-10 Years. To me it seems like missing understanding and also pure envy. Thanks for that Calculator! There are already some calculators out there that use the power law, and I think the power law is the only reliable model out there. For example: [https://bitcoincompounding.com/](https://bitcoincompounding.com/) or [https://www.dontbuybitcoin.com/bitcoin-FIRE-calculator/](https://www.dontbuybitcoin.com/bitcoin-FIRE-calculator/) On X there is also some nice stuff: [https://x.com/sminston\_with/status/1917605539279954391](https://x.com/sminston_with/status/1917605539279954391) But Thank you, I bookmarked your Calc!

Hurricaneshand

FIRE?

SomeColdBoi

Pain? All im hearing is FIRE SALE!

ImpressiveRelief37

Nope unless you already are a millionaire and buy a dozen bitcoin won’t get you there sorry. Not on the short or medium term. Just see bitcoin as a ~15% CAGR asset from now on. Similar to how the SP500 is performing during bull years. You need to adopt the FIRE mindset and save most of your salary each years for 10-20 years to retire early.

penty

Started in late 2012-early 2013. For reasons had to take a sabbatical late 2014. BTC has slowly transformed it over the years -> mini-retiremet -> Lean FiRE -> FIRE. I expect this cycle or the next to push me into Fat FIRE although the RE is getting less E as I get older. In the early days my tolerance and procrastination was just slightly bigger than the cycle .. it'd drop super low and I'd say "I guess it's done, I'll get everything set up to sell.".... But then that would be the turn around so I never did. NOW I just hold no matter what, I don't try to play the cycle or guess tips or bottoms. I expect the cycle so I don't freak out when it happens. Hold and WAGMI.

MustacheSupernova

I’m just here because I’m thoroughly entertained by your desire to “win” this stupid conversation. The only reason it’s even taking place is because you were too dumb to understand the point I was making. I can go as long as you want, it’s all entertainment for me. I FIRE’d out last year and I have all the time in the world to joust with Gen Z neckbeards… 🫡

ObviousTie4

It’s not about Bitcoin. The “Dream” is to be financially more stable than you are today—until the point of escape velocity. Here’s a short lesson on FIRE (Financially Independent, Retire Early). Say you earn $100 right now and spend only $80, and invest $20. That $20 might become $25 at some point in time. What that means is: if you need $80, and you have $25 at some point (adjusted for inflation), you have pre-earned 25.3% of your future expenses. Let’s say you are 28, and your target retirement age is 68. You have 40 years of work and (say) 20 years of retirement ahead of you—assuming you live till 88. No one knows this of course, but let’s go with average numbers to keep it simple. This means every 2 months, you save and invest $40, and that needs to become $80 (adjusted for inflation) by the time you can retire. The less you spend, the bigger starting base you have. And the less you spend, the more lean your lifestyle is. How inflation is a game changer (and how to use it in your favour) You need a house to live in all your life. Inflation increases your income, as well as your cost of living. Once you buy a house and have a steady mortgage, the payments are fixed. Which means the earlier you buy, that part of your lifestyle never inflates, since the payments are fixed. In fact, if you buy early enough in life and pay it off quickly, you can then invest a much bigger chunk into your investments since you don’t have any house payments. On the flip side, if your interest rate is low—lower than say 5–6%—you can safely assume you are better off not paying off the home early. Instead, any extra money should be invested, as it will generally almost always appreciate more than your mortgage interest. Dave Ramsey has an 8-step plan on how to achieve this. My logic is similar and only differs on one point: he says pay off your home loan no matter what. My logic is: don’t pay it off if your mortgage interest rate is 3–4% less than the average S&P increase rate. Well, at least this is my “END GAME”

cannedshrimp

It’s the book that started the FIRE movement. An oldie, but an interesting read if you’re into that type of self improvement. The entire investment section used to be entirely on US Treasuries 😂

wh977oqej9

I don't believe, that you didn't have just 1-10€ in 2010, to get you a FIRE. I had 10€ in the kindergarten, just from the gifts. 😆

ImpressiveRelief37

When you have enough bitcoin you can also just sell, pay the taxes and be done with it. This is risk free. When you retire the last thing you want is stressing out and watching the price of bitcoin every hour. Source: I’ve FIRE’d 4 years ago

CryptoPulsee

Traditional FIRE math relies heavily on the 4% rule, which is getting harder to trust with current monetary debasement. Bitcoin fixes this by storing value outside the system. I’ve stopped diversifying into bonds entirely and treat BTC as the ultimate long-term savings vehicle 👾🔥.

EngineeringCool5521

The plan should FIRE. Invest all your extra money into dividends and have them reinvest. Diversify, preferably reits, $O, $AGNC, $HRZN, $PSEC, $ORC. Then some into $VOO or $SPY. Set the dividends to reinvest every month. Then when you are my age (in 21 years) YOu would have a substantial passive income and could practically do whatever you want. prompt: "If I am 17 now, and I invested $500 a month into $O and $HRZN 50/50 ratio and reinvested the dividend assuming they stay the same. How much would I have after 21 years of dividend investment?" chatgpt: "... Where: • PMT = $500/month • r ≈ **9.5% annual return (0.095)** • n = 12 (compounding monthly) • t = 21 years Plug in to a financial calculator: 🧾 **Estimated total value after 21 years ≈ \~$545,000 – \~$580,000** ... That equates to roughly \~$6.8k/month in dividends at that point (if yields stayed similar)**"**

Icy_Acanthisitta_345

Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) - the goal of achieving financial independence and retiring early.

chrisganjunior

Generally a normal thing to discuss imo, but it's crazy to me that you're doing your FIRE through bitcoin. Don't you think there's even a small chance that quantum will kill it?

dynastyfriar

2-3 decades is a long time. You put it out there like you are set to FIRE on bitcoin

OhhhhBillly

It could be many things, my living expenses paid for the rest of my life as I slowly convert to USD against its YOY compounding growth, say 7% per year after 2036 based on a FIRE model like https://bitcoincompounding.com/ It could be used for a medical emergency, medical expenses have been one of its best use cases since the beginning, Hal Finney cashed a-lot of his bitcoin out to pay medical bills before he died. It can be used as collateral on loans to create more wealth depending on what you do with the loan. A loan to buy a car will just depreciate your value but a loan on a small property that you rent out or airbnb could potentially turn into the loan/property being paid off by tenants and then you have another asset to borrow against, all while still holding your bitcoin. Using bitcoin as collateral is one of the best use cases because it’s not a sale, which is not a taxable event. Anything regarding a sale for USD is taxable which is what most bitcoiners want to avoid unless absolutely necessary. I have seen guys sell to pay off their mortgage, while I respect it, I dont see much logic in that as bitcoin growth has outpaced housing. What you get in place of cashing out bitcoin to pay the house off is a huge taxable event, and then you get to keep all the mortgage payments (cash) after that. So paying off debt is really a trade of a long term compounding investment for cash, not just the cash you get from the trade, but the cash you keep from your employment income that you dont have to use paying off an interest bearing loan for the next 20-30 years. How it really changes your life is that you may have a shit job, have no cash, you may be broke just paying the bills but there is always future growth happening and you always have options to start a business, your never truly broke when you hold 1 BTC, you just have to be smart with it. You could sell a portion of it at one of the local peaks and buy a semi truck, get your CDL and start hauling, get your own contracts, haul your ass off and start pulling 350k a year, and then buy more bitcoin back than you ever had before, plus have surplus cash. These are just a few of my views and opinions on what 1 BTC can do to change your life, but if you just sit on it forever the growth will be for future generations, not for you and I encourage people to use it while their here, saving some for future generations is great, I support this, but holding it forever and never using any of it to build anything for you is just like not having any at all.

Specific_Strain217

That's over 7k Satoshis my man, you are making your way to FIRE!

DeoVeritati

At that point, you've kind of already won, and it reminds me of the fisherman and the businessman parable. Any kind of currency is an ends to a means. Congrats on achieving that, and, if you're into FIRE, go fuck yourself. If not, keep living the dream!

wh977oqej9

Not in a decade. For me life changing would mean FIRE. But for this I would need at least 500k€ at this moment. 0.5BTC at 1M€ - it could be life changing.

LargeSnorlax

Eh. Plenty of people shitposting on here when they're FIRE. You don't lose the urge to shitpost when you're retired, if anything you have way more time to do it. Not saying this guy is (big doubt) but there's plenty of comfy people chilling here, despite the moaners sometimes.

Nice_Daikon6096

I believe this narrative reaches many. People who don’t want to do unfulfilling work for 40 years. The FIRE community. Normies who don’t understand why the most pushed method of saving for retirement causes them to not access their own money for decades. And the seasoned investors who DO understand and realize it’s all a sham. This is many people’s first meme coin for a reason. Because it’s much more than a meme it’s a movement. Once I’m able to retire off of 401jk I will continue to create content that hopefully helps others find better ways to carve their own path and benefit from community vs benefiting corporations. I also hope to travel extensively with my wife and meet people and integrate with cultures around the world. Together as humans we are more powerful and capable than any group of elites. I’m here to tap into and take back my own power.

Coreo606

IT’S A FIRE…. sale!

thermobear

WE’RE HAVING A FIRE … sale.

freedomfate18

What a joker. You are assuming capital is from America. Sorry to burst your bubble as much as you would like to think that America rule every domain it simply is not true. Sad to tell u but crypto like American stock market is largely owned by Asia. China, India and South east Asia specifically. You can draw on facts yourself that China amount of cash in the world is 1.5 x of America. With reasonable debt that is used to build infrastructure. America 37 trillion probably 40 if your lucky by end of trump. America is doing what China needs destroying itself from within by making mistakes. American strength is in allies it’s in working together decades of negotiations, under hand means to get these being thrown away by Donald trump over night. And sorry to burst your bubble America only attains 22% of total crypto capital. China 19%. The rest of Asia and the world holds the remaining 50+ %. So in short term American policies can affect crypto but remember if crypto didn’t need America for the past cycles it don’t need it today. Remember that from someone who is in this for 12 years + on the third cycle. What you need to focus to earn money is to be world aware not a frog stuck in a well thinking America alone will affect crypto fully. When you remember and understand the stakeholders involved then perhaps you may be able to achieve FIRE

DEATHbySp00Nz15

It had a bigger % drop in 2022. What is FIRE?

Captain_Planet

Ha, they don't like BItocin in FIRE (even though it has been the single best route to it over the last 15 years)!

Fit_Yam7845

Depends on your expenses etc. I would sell 100-125 btc and put it into ETF index funds and retire with 4% yearly withdrawal (FIRE). You would be set for life. Let the rest ride.

Ok-Hyena-2175

Let me put it this way… I’m standing in front of a burning building, and I’m offering you FIRE INSURANCE ON IT!

Pure_Concentrate8770

bitcoin dominence dumping its BITCHASS we are gonna go FIRE

Budget_Eye5861

I sold 1/2 my stash Bought a 2026 vehicle Banked (2) years income \[nothing big $40,444.04/year or $777.77/week\] HODLing my other 1/2 coins \[100K XRP\] for a dip to $1.40 USD/XRP for a wash sale BUY back all the coins I sold and banked with a LOSS in taxes \- ready for 2029 - lol !FIRE!

Kie_ra

Stacking is smart, what you're suggesting is downright retarded. I suggest you learn about CGT, utilising loans, and some principles of FIRE. Good on you for not having kids - your first investment should be a vasectomy.

penty

You never put in more than you can afford to lose especially back then. I started a sabbatical for nonBitcoin reasons back in late 2014... It's slowly grewto a mini retirement then lean FIRE and this cycle is FIRE moving toward Fat FIRE.. although with time the 'E' is becoming less so.

Drizznarte

Learn to create value first, IE get a job . Being able to create value is more important than being able to store it. Everyone has there whole life to stack. If you want to sacrifice your younger years for financial freedom Bitcoin can help but look into FIRE Financial Independence Retire early . There is a sub for it.

partialfriction

38 and effectively coast FIRE because of my holdings. Money is about choices and options. I don't sell not because I'm existentially tied to my bitcoin ideologically. I don't sell because i can maintain an agreeable life and give myself (or loved ones) even more options in the future.

penty

Same, starts late 2012-early 2013. Unrelated sabbatical in late 2014 slowly stretched out thru lean FIRE to now FIRE.. approaching Fat FIRE and as Bitcoin has grown up.

usrname_chex_out

Considering you’ve got 3.5M and a paid off house, you’re pretty set for life as long as you keep yourself well-diversified. If you want to buy more bitcoin, there will probably be a time in the future when there is a substantial discount (another round of tariffs, recession, or whatever), and even if that’s from higher prices, it will probably represent a better risk-adjusted reward for you. I personally don’t count my Bitcoin toward my FIRE number. It’s likely to either massively outperform or massively underperform typical markets, which is not the kind of risk I’m willing to take with my retirement plans. So unless you are aiming to amass incredible wealth and are willing to risk the life you’ve already made for yourself, I’d say keeping your BTC position modest is probably a good idea

penty

I've done okay, my 2014, non Bitcoin related, sabbatical turned into a mini-retirement.. to lean FIRE.. to FIRE... And this and the next cycle probably Fat Fire...( Although the RE part is getting later. Lol)

ernie-jo

OH MY GOD THERE’S A FIRE!!!!!!! sale

anyuser_19823

OMG WE’RE HAVING A FIRE . . sale (https://youtu.be/t5uSuyVBp8A?si=FZxRhZBb2OEDCQja)

fire_him

All great questions. We are very pretty vanilla, we have 2 holdings on the stock side SPY and QQQ. 3 assets total including BTC. We were all very much inspired by the FIRE movement so keeping investment simple made sense for us. We buy x amount every month. Plan is to not sell any BTC at all ever (willing to transact in sats if needed). Its also under a LLC so we each report it. Decision to sell, how we would sell, etc all written in an operating agreement we have. For example, we all have to agree to sell an asset if we head that direction.

genadi_brightside

Probably not, as purchasing value of USD will decrease. FIRE is a scam

Ludjik

Of course I live in a low cost of living country (compared to the USA) and $400k is pretty damn close to my FIRE number. I'd be better off taking the money, investing it in index funds and waiting a few years before retiring.

jay-valkyrie

Same here. IMO: 1) nothing outperforms Bitcoin over the long run 2) If Bitcoin doesn’t make it, we’re all doomed (including no coiners) so nothing else matters. 3) Stocks require depending on a “trusted” 3rd party. No self-custody there. Only reason I’d be in the stock market is if I had a 401k or IRA that didn’t allow for self custodying Bitcoin. In that case I’d be following the FIRE method outlined by this YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNfJwflp2ifaSMsQ4sXa1hHynksDSKGS&si=uRYpFiOPZdhAUb73

Reasonable_Band1536

This will be the best/funniest thing I read tonight. All of the FIRE groups deny postings that encourage it. I hope one day I find myself sitting on a beach, sipping a drink and strike up a conversation with somebody from a FIRE group and be able to tell them that I did the same thing they did in a shorter period of time because of Bitcoin. Edit: Go back and tell them “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”

Reasonable_Band1536

This will be the best/funniest thing I read tonight. All of the FIRE groups deny postings that encourage it. I hope one day I find myself sitting on a beach, sipping a drink and strike up a conversation with somebody from a FIRE group and be able to tell them that I did the same thing they did in a shorter period of time because of Bitcoin.

veegaz

FARTCOIN ON FIRE TODAY Probably had tacobell last night

Aussiehash

From reading your post history, you have around $100k/year to invest and already own US equities. Why don't you just invest a % of your annual investment savings into Bitcoin over the next 5 years (given that you intend to FIRE)

user_name_checks_out

Sure. I just took a peek at that subreddit and spotted this thread: [Crypto in a FIRE portfolio?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/1nsn3qq/crypto_in_a_fire_portfolio/) OP gets unanimously crucified. So that tells me that it is not possible to have a conversation about bitcoin in that subreddit.

XXsforEyes

Interested as well. Too old for FIRE. I have a good nest egg outside BTC but not enough in itself to retire. I have faith in BTC long-term but it’s going to the next generation to become the kind of wealth they deserve.

LazyLifeguard

I am retired since 2017. Recently sold 95% of my BTC, diversified and following basic FIRE mindset. That being said if I would be younger without kids and family I would definitely keep holding longer. Now I value security over volatility and high gains. It really depends on your lifestyle and what gives you peace of mind.

2xfun

Exactly the same thing is happening now. The majority of the retail can’t tell the difference between clown coin and BTC. Try mentioning BTC in the investing or the FIRE subs…. 

ProfessorPyrex69

100% me, but I am fully on board now. DCA monthly until its time to FIRE.

SimpleMoonFarmer

I tried to do FIRE so I sent my coins to a burn address.

Tanikushokutomu

I tried to do FIRE with crypto but I'm not financially independent yet, so I'm just re

almerias

Bitcoin is matured enough to be a DCA asset. It’s cornerstone of a portfolio. I started investing in Bitcoin 8 years ago (Was getting payments via BTC 2 more years prior) and i feel stupid to try timing cycles, doing sell-buy back games. Now i’m a true HODLer till i’m FIRE. No more sell and buy backs.

Street-Technology-93

I had not thought of it in these terms, but it does resonate. I normally resist responding on all that 0.1 btc bullcrap hype, but it is completely delusional. Probably takes 5-10 btc to FIRE on any reasonable timescale these days.

trufin2038

Why wait till you are old to retire? Is that some kind of fiat wageslave logic? Bitcoin lets you opt out of inflation theft, iow, it let's you opt out of dollar communism. Iow: You can retire while you still have control of your asshole. bitcoin is FIRE.

TheNameIsHems

Yeah that makes sense — 12% long-term is solid. Right now I’m investing in both Nasdaq and S&P for balance, but I’ll definitely tilt heavier to tech since I’ve got time on my side. Thanks for the FIRE suggestion too, will check it out 🙏.

onpch1

12% average annual return is generally expected from a balanced portfolio. You got in right when the markets were bottoming, so luck did play a hand. At your age, because you have time on your side, rather than S&P index funds, you should go heavy nasdaq/tech exposure ie, QQQ. Also, go to s/FIRE for general investment/early retirement questions. But stay here to learn more about Bitcoin.

skyhermit

We are in a similar situation expect I have slightly lower FIRE number than you. One thing another Redditor recommended is to do "Progressive Quitting". Basically you work for 1 year, take 3 months break, then work for extra 1 year, take 6 months break. The break is getting longer each time

Nemozoli

Do whatever you like with that story. Take notes, get inspiration... Write your own story which starts with 0.0001 and ends with 0.5 - that in itself will allow you to FIRE in the future. Become the fairy tale your children will recount.

Grp8pe88

It did what it was supposed to; granted you financial freedom. The fact you know what FIRE is, and are a member of the club is proof. congrats on a sound decision OP!

BanButtcoinMod

Same on any FIRE sub you'll ever visit. They're literally crying because they can't beat inflation and their ETFs all have a pretty small ROI, and when you present them the solution (Bitcoin), they downvote you and call you a degenerate gambler. So sick and tired of these nitwits. They see us as annoying cRyPtОbRоS while we're only trying to help them.

BanButtcoinMod

Same on any FIRE sub you'll ever visit. They're literally crying because they can't beat inflation and their ETFs all have a pretty small ROI, and when you present them the solution (Bitcoin), they downvote you and call you a degenerate gambler. So sick and tired of these nitwits. They see us as annoying cRyPtObRoS while we're only trying to help them.

stinger32

What's the house play? Live-in flip, value add, or live in? If it's to live in and not become a millionaire, then buy a home. Look at the FIRE community and grow!! Heck, maybe you are already there.

MiceAreTiny

I was hopen this was about FI from FIRE as in financial indepence/retire early through bitcoin. There are more and more people BitcoinFI, so it should get traction. I am disappointed that this is another aim to extract value from others.

DecentBig3856

Your FIRE story at 46 is impressive. That’s awesome. However, I’m pretty sure the OP was asking about investment advice, not just a purely risk averse retirement model. In any case, thats how I chose to lean into it. My numbers are what they are. Right now we live in San Diego on 65k a year. We got a sweet spot with rent at 2,500 / mo, for a two bedroom two bathroom. It’s a nice quaint neighborhood in north county. Our healthcare is fully covered, which yes, is a huge advantage. We eat well, groceries are all organic & we have grass fed meat every day, our home is decorated how we like, our boy has plenty of toys and we both drive nice cars. We are comfortable and happy even without spending lavishly. All I am saying is there are ways to make it work. The idea that 65k is unworkable in a high cost of living area is too generalized. With the right circumstances and choices it is very possible to live well. I’m actively working towards generating an extra 3k a month for us, which I agree will be helpful when our second arrives. The idea that retirement equals shutting down all money making, to me is a bit silly. If I had more free time and no traditional employment I would want to spend 10 to 20 hours a week building a side business or exploring and leveraging new investment opportunities. And if I had cash to fuel investment vehicles and potential business opportunities, Why not?

Francis_Dollar_Hide

"With smart allocation and cash-flowing investments (real estate, dividend stocks, even certain businesses), it’s realistic to generate $85-95k+ per year in income while still preserving or even growing the principal. That’s a completely different ballgame from the “spend down” approach." Ah yes, the 'risk my early retirement to make it work' Strategy. I'm willing to bet once that second kid comes along, you're going to start hurting. The retirement benchmark in the USA is $1.8 - $2.2 Million per person with a house paid off an no dependents. I also have to question your figures. $65k PA is $5.4k per month. Rent for a family of 4 is going to be$3k min in a HCOL, then health insurance will be 1.5k per month, you are out of money by the time you buy groceries and other expenses. No savings, no educational account, no holidays. I retired FIRE at 46, I needed more than 2Mil in a HCOL and I have no dependents.

OldPyjama

With 100k in Euro, you can get pretty far here in Western Europe. At least in my country. Not enough to FIRE, but enough to pay off a large chunk of the loan to your home. Enough to buy a good ETF and either let it grow or start taking dividends for some extra income. Or you can just keep your Bitcoin, let it increase in value and do all this later.

MrMogz

It can be for sure, but if a person with that wealth lives in a HCOL, drives nice cars and has/wants a luxury lifestyle, it’s not really. There’s enough people in the FIRE subs with funds like that and are like “can I retire yet!” Of course if a normal person had that much money and maintained a semi- normal lifestyle, it could be, but if I’m thinking wealth that can be 3+ generations of safety, it’s gotta be more than that. But at the end of the day, everyone is different so that number can and will vary greatly.

Hqjjciy6sJr

You are not going to get FIRE money just by hodling anymore. Unless you start with a huge capital, in that case you were rich & free already!

ernie-jo

OH MY GOD THERE’S A FIRE!! ..sale

carbonetc

Making wealth and retaining wealth are two distinct skill sets. I'd recommend reading retirement subs (the various FIRE ones) and books to pick up on those skills. They'll probably be anti-bitcoin and that's a good thing because you want input from outside the echo chamber. You already know what bitcoiners say about retaining wealth, and most of them haven't had wealth before. You don't really have enough to retire right now if you're In the US. Technically, you might, but to deal with health insurance and rent/mortgage and bills you'd have to dip into your stash occasionally, which you should avoid. Even if you borrow against your bitcoin the interest will make things uncomfortable. Revisit the idea in the next cycle. If we hit $500K or more, you're probably set.

mrlanke

OH MY GOD THERE’S A FIRE!… sale.

Business_Win8753

I want to say FIRE… but is it really at this point?

KarateKid84Fan

Forget FIRE… prescribe to BIFF (like in Back to the Future 2)… Bitcoin Independence, Financial Freedom..,

redhtbassplyr0311

Well I don't agree with half of the toxic crap that you hear over there on r/fire so I'm not surprised. I wouldn't seek advice from anyone over there. Many are just tone deaf ignoring wage stagnation, goods and housing prices but then want to say if you're not saving 70% of your income, you're weak or lazy in their eyes. You're shamed for buying a coffee on a rare occasion or taking a vacation too, sounding like a terrible way to live the whole front end of your life. People there sell this fantasy that if you eat rice and beans, never travel, and duct-tape your sneakers for a decade, you’ll magically “retire early” , when in reality, most people in FIRE either already had high incomes or they just end up blogging, podcasting or hustling about FIRE when they "retire" while not acknowledging the reality that they're still working. Just comes across as smug and disingenuous. Better off ignoring r/fire entirely for any realistic fanicial planning and keep stacking your Bitcoin of course

Over_Reputation_8801

Oh, those FIRE guys are horny as hell for that 4% rule. Also, they refuse to even acknowledge that Social Security exists.

OkDiver6272

That’s the truth. I just retired this week, in my upper 40’s with about $1M in investments. My goal is ~ 20% CAGR with half in BTC and half in tech/AI/bitcoin treasuries. The folks over at r/FIRE did not like that idea. Said I should plan on only 4% and hope for 8% returns. They just don’t get that this isn’t your grandpa’s stock market. The 60/40 portfolio is dead. BTC is my savings account. TSLA, NVDA, PLTR, HOOD, COIN, MSTR, etc are my investments. Excess gains from them will be rolled into BTC. That’s my FIRE plan.

zerolimits0

They are not against the system, they are optimizing it. BTC doesn't fit in the system yet ironically it would speed up FIRE. Quite the irony...

Pale_Drink4455

This particular FIRE guy is a strong believer of BTC. Long time holder as well as long on MSTR!

PopFirm5291

I'm telling you. I FIRE ALL my financial advisors because they don't know jackshIt about Bitcoin.

El_Caganer

It's kind of like the FIRE community, once you have been around for a little while and learned the basics 95% of what gets posted becomes noise,and it's kind of a survivorship bias on posting. The long term holders with conviction don't need to say much, but stick around for the occasional nugget.

Cute_Bandicoot_8219

> Technically, Trump shouldn't get to say who runs the FED Technically he's the ONLY person who can say. The President nominates someone to head the Fed, and the Senate confirms them. The President can't FIRE the head of the Fed except for cause, but that doesn't mean he's not wholly responsible for nominating them.

KlearCat

I’m saving for retirement. FIRE

phylaxis

Eh, it actually had the opposite effect on me.  I was already really into tradfi and obsessively budgeted and scimped every dollar to try and make progress towards my FIRE number. With Bitcoin now I can relax. Still putting the majority of our monthly income towards investments but I feel like I can finally live a little because I'm so confident that we will be ok. We are travelling more, spending more money on hobbies, not dodging social events just to avoid the expenditure. Its so nice. 

penty

Only if your whole identity is work. There's family, hobbies, experience and just working when and if and on what you want. Thanks to Bitcoin my 2014 sabbatical slowly evolved into FIRE.

nicoznico

A few weeks ago I saw the perfect answer in another sub (I guess it was a FIRE sub). Answer: ## I work in asset management. It‘s the truth. You manage your own assets.

timeforachangee

There are a lot of retired early people in developing countries especially SEA. Just say you saved and invested from a young age to retire young? Why are you making FIRE more complicated than it needs to be? If you feel the need you can say you are a trader as there are many trader bros in developing countries as well.

silentcold

More than average on this subreddit. Global economy absorbed and functioning on Bitcoin standard is ultimate FIRE 🔥