FIRE

lifeanon269

As someone who follows FIRE and has accomplished my goals, this advice goes against most of the strategies toward achieving FIRE, whether your investing in bitcoin or anything else for that matter. If your goal is financial independence, "taking profits" is just another way of saying "time the market." Pay off debt? You should try and avoid debt at all costs. Debt goes against the goal of financial independence. Create freedom? Again, if you're goal is financial independence, "taking profits" is simply another term for timing the market. If you have a clear goal in mind (such as financial independence), invest with the intent of accomplishing that goal. "Taking profits" means either taking money out of your investments and timing the market or straying from your goal. If you take money out of the market, what are you doing with that money otherwise? Spending it? That goes against your goal? Are you going to put it back in the market? When? Again, you're just timing the market. You also created unnecessary tax burdens for yourself that would cost you more gains in the long run. Increase cash flow? You should be budgeting so that you're living below your means. That means you're already cash flow positive that allows you to save in bitcoin in the first place. If you're saving in bitcoin, that bitcoin is for future cash flows once you've achieved your goal. You reach your goal once your savings can sustain your expenses. That's independence. You don't use bitcoin/savings to increase your cash flow until that goal is reach. Doing it at any time before delays your achieving your goal. Buy back your time? Cashing out means going against your investment goals that were intended to gain your financial independence in the first place. Only once you have financial independence do you start to migrate from your savings plan to your spending plan. Yes, buying back your time is entirely the point. But "taking profits" as you say goes entirely against that. Reduce financial stress? If you want to meet your goal of financial independence, you need to be living below your means in the first place. Living below your means is what reduces your financial stress, not cashing out of your investments. The "never sell" mantra I took as really just another phrasing of "time in the market, beats timing the market." "Taking profits" is another phrasing of timing the market, which is a fools game. I never took "never sell" as to mean never actually use it in your life time. Just that you should only use it once your goals have been reach. People that say never sell I've typically understood as wanting to invest in bitcoin for the purpose of gaining their financial freedom. In that case, never sell!

Educational-Mobile73

Definitely part of my early FIRE plan or just having the flexibility of leaving higher paying work/ job security for passion projects/ fun jobs/ hanging out with the kiddos.

Immediate_Age_8445

Just go all world index funs. Your contribution is so huge you dont need any risk to be FIRE in a hearthbeat

wbom2000

60-90k is cheap sub 60k is super cheap , for me it’s the only asset I buy and plan to hold for basically ever or until I can achieve FIRE so it doesn’t bother me whether it’s 70k or 40k cheap is cheap sub 50k will be a hell of a sale though

Wheaties4brkfst

Hell yeah. People who used to read about FIRE and safe withdrawal rates are very familiar with this.

lambdasintheoutfield

This question can get as deep as you want it to be. There is macroeconomic uncertainty. The average person doesn’t have the extra funds to invest and when they do they don’t have the risk appetite for bitcoin. Then, there was a shock to the underlying decentralized philosophy of Bitcoin. Microstrategy, BlackRock and other huge hedge funds have scooped up a significant amount of BTC. If you factor in their collective share, unrecoverable bitcoins due to holders passing away, losing their keys the amount of Bitcoin holdings IS concentrated in a small handful of players. That adds more uncertainty in the long term future. Historical trends like 4 year cycles (due to the halving) work until they don’t. What has remained true is BTC has indeed remained a hedge against inflation. Inflation is a constant upward force on the price, as well as BTC itself becoming more scarce as people mine more blocks. The other downward forces are strong, but likely won’t always be since many are temporary. Personally I DCA and treat is a determining factor of which FIRE bracket ill ultimately fall into. Classic investment rules still apply.

BitcoinBeers

Domain names command credibility, change the name from bitchat its already taken. And use a better domain than .me, something like .com One of the only real gaps in this space is a 'Bitcoin ETF (or general ETF) <-> Cash' bridge. Many people have switched to ETF's, the FIRE community, young adults, bitcoiners, for good or bad. But, typically people have to sell chunks at a time to use the money, permitting low-cost micro-selling, payments of bills 'with ETF's'. A bank-like card would be very interesting. I would then dump all income into my portfolio of ETF's, which is mostly Bitcoin at the moment. As mentioned, you can expand horizontally to other ETFs after optimizing for one community in need such as Bitcoin. Note, there is all kinds of tax implications for this, but in my country selling an ETF has the same tax implications as trading bitcoin for the currency.

u_spawnTrapd

If your non-BTC assets already fully cover your actual Lean FIRE expenses, you’re in a way different position than someone depending on Bitcoin to survive month to month. That changes the psychology a lot. Personally, I’d think less in terms of all in or all out and more in terms of defining what role BTC plays in your life now. Growth asset? Inflation hedge? Conviction hold? Because once you retire, volatility hits differently when there’s no paycheck mentally smoothing things over. The people I know who handled it best usually had a very clear floor. Like my boring portfolio + cash handles 10+ years no matter what BTC does.” Once that line is established, the crypto allocation becomes easier to tolerate because you’re not secretly relying on it. I also think sequence risk matters way more in early retirement than most Bitcoin people admit. A brutal drawdown early in retirement can mess with your decision making even if the spreadsheet says you’re fine. Sleep quality becomes underrated. As for cycles, I’m honestly less confident the clean 4-year pattern survives in the same way now that ETFs and institutional flows exist, but I also wouldn’t assume volatility disappears. Bitcoin getting more accepted doesn’t magically make it behave like VOO.

DeoVeritati

I'll be in a similar situation in a few years though my crypto is only like 5-10% of my portfolio. Personally, I'd pick a number you'd be happy selling at, and hold until it hits that number. Then sell down to whatever reserve bitcoin percentage you want in your portfolio. I'm a advocate for most folks, FIRE or otherwise, having 0-10% of their assets in bitcoin depending on risk tolerance.

topbschoolsonly

I have a lot of FIRE questions for you. Can I dm you please?

lifeanon269

I'm FIRE'd as well and did not sell my bitcoin. Is bitcoin your only cryptocurrency holding? Because diversifying among others increases your risk, not decreases it. So I would stick with just bitcoin, if you're not already (I couldn't tell from your post). I did not FIRE immediately upon hitting my FIRE number. When I FIRE'd, I was already quite a bit higher than my number, so I had some cushion to work with should the market tumble a little. I was also very conservative with my number and so was already reaching 100% success rates with all the FIRE calcs. I'm also holding 2-3 years of cash on hand to handle any downswings and volatility. I also think bitcoin has a valuable place in retirement portfolios as long as you don't consider it being an irrational lottery ticket to retirement. If instead you look at the bottom support level and use that for your planning, you'll be fine. You can read more on that here: https://btcpowerlaw.nl/

Prior-Panda5725

Man, 37 with the runway to lean FIRE is already putting you ahead of like 95% of people. I kept about 15% BTC when I pulled the trigger three years ago, and it's been wild watching it swing from "holy shit I'm a genius" to "why didn't I just buy more VTSAX" and back again. The psychological part is real though - there were definitely nights during the 2022 crash where I was lying awake doing mental math on whether I'd need to go back to work. What helped me was treating that BTC allocation like it was already gone, mentally speaking. If it moons, cool, early retirement just got way cushier. If it goes to zero, my boring index funds still cover the lean lifestyle I planned for. Since your baseline is already covered by traditional assets, keeping some skin in the crypto game isn't totally insane. Just make sure you can genuinely afford to lose whatever you keep in BTC without it affecting your actual retirement timeline. The ETF flows are definitely changing things, but trying to time cycles is still basically gambling with extra steps. One thing that worked for me was setting a hard percentage cap - like if BTC ever grows to more than 20% of my portfolio due to price action, I rebalance back down. Takes some of the emotional decision-making out of it.

ScaryVeterinarian241

Because every few years we forget this fact and buy the quiet during an obvious compression signal only to have it dump 15% over a month because some arbitrary tweet or article influenced an entire market that the new bottom is now in October 26' and consolidation was not in fact what was happening. I can see the steady 6%-12% gain and increasing floor. I can see the trajectory 20 years out. The issue is projecting out all that wait time while the liquidity gets set on literal FIRE makes no sense anymore for retail. The liquidity could be deployed here and now in more meaningful areas and begin generating tangible returns that scale, add value, and improve quality of life. I used to mine eth. I was in this in this. PoS and slashing risk is nonsense. None of this is working except stables. I can get collateralized loans at banks and pawnshops on fiat. Unfortunately, there is no value prop left for retail when defi and bridges keep getting absolutely rekt, and even blue chip tokens won't hold the fucking line month over month. 6% interest on SOL means jack shit when it dips 4% month over month. Like people need to get it together. The framework is still great, but the execution is dog shit.

KamikazKid

Put half my bitcoin into SPY and FIRE.

bansoma

I'm coast FIRE with a mix of BTC and stocks. Mostly stocks initially. Didn't trust the early exchanges so I dodged Mt. Gox. BTC was very speculative at that time, and it didn't work out for many people, many whom understood the value of BTC lots of custody lessons were learned during the early years. I've had a small allocation to BTC since 2016, this grows with each cycle, both from growth and from continuing contributions which I'm extra diligent about during pullbacks. Starting a business currently on my own terms. Pretty fun tbh. Technically if I stop I have enough for a meagre life, but there are things I still want and I also want to stack some more sats. So I still work everyday, it just looks/feels a lot different. With this recent pullback I've rebalanced more into BTC. Over time I've let my bond position continue to shrink. There are good risk adjusted reasons to always keep some allocation to it as it means you can harvest volatility opportunities, usually this has just looked like selling bonds when BTC crashes to buy BTC. The flexibility of the business helps in this way as I plan to reset cost basis this year while keeping my income lower. I would say the five biggest drivers have been: 1) Cultivating valuable skills, and documenting them in a market accepted way 2) Saving very large %'s of my income through lots of sacrifices and doing everything around the house (cooking, carpentry, biking to work, older homes, etc.) 3) Excellent tax planning -- It's really, really hard to beat getting a year 1 investment boost of 15%+ -- I don't here enough in this subreddit about legally avoiding taxes, it works, learn about your options. 4) Going heavy into 2 great asset classes, Stocks and BTC, and being willing to have a boring allocation. 5) Always keeping some allocation to other asset classes, Bonds/Real-Estate/Gold. This really helped mentally weather storms and has created unique arbitrage opportunities. I only just recently sold BTC for the first time -- to max out my IRA and buy some BTC ETF..., I'll hold as much BTC or paper BTC as I can as long as possible. I prefer the real BTC, but also like avoiding the taxes, so that I can eventually get more BTC. I've never made insane income -- but I did always save a ton. I remember getting to 100k took forever and DID NOT FEEL WORTH IT. But yeah, it was.

AdEuphoric5133

I started stacking in late 2023, which is way too late to be FIRE. But I'm still young. I'd like to be fire by 2035-2040

cyrdapwn

Started with very little investments to BTC in 2018. Been DCAing since then. As I was earning more money, I was investing more overtime. Now I am pretty close to FIRE. About 1-2 years to go. BTC is 40% of my ptf. Rest is VWCE ETF. When I hit FIRE I plan to lower btc to 20% for stability.

2LostFlamingos

The funny thing is that if you talk about having any funds in bitcoin on the FIRE sub, they lose their shit in a big way.

__Ken_Adams__

It doesn't have to to achieve FIRE. Living off of dividends or interest is not the only way to FIRE. There's nothing in FIRE that says you can't touch the principal.

Spicyocto

I FIRE’d end of 2024 after HODLing since 2014 and some DCA from 2019- 2023. Plan is to cash out 4-5% a year ( a bit more during bull runs). I still work about 2-3 hours a week for fun which gives me some pocket money

Extension_Ladder_135

You know Bitcoin does not do anything. no interest, no dividents, no payouts. So, how would you be FIRE on a big Bitcoin stack?

Short-Shopping3197

Depends on what Bitcoin is worth, depends on what everything else costs, depends on what quality of life you want. I certainly don’t think buying 2.5 Bitcoin without other savings and assets is a sensible FIRE strategy.

Generationhodl

GZ ! You are FIRE then already?

JimmyWhatever

FIRE. 🔥

Independent-Funny342

Interesting mechanic tbh, but the big thing to keep in mind is the “yield” still just comes from other traders paying that 4% tax. If volume slows down, rewards dry up, so it’s not really passive income in the same way, it’s more a redistribution game that works best while hype is active. That’s why some people separate strategies: if you want to speculate, meme coins like this are fine to play with, but for actual passive income they lean toward CeFi platforms like CoinDepo where BTC yields are fixed and generated through lending and structured strategies instead of trading taxes. Personally I’d treat something like $FIRE as a small, high-risk position and keep most of the portfolio in cold storage or earning steadier yield rather than relying on sustained meme volume.

Generationhodl

"Now my biggest fear, and I hope I’m wrong, is that down the line bitcoin won’t make me wealthy but will just end up making me have the same life as I currently have." I mean, lets asume longterm average inflation is around 6-7% which fits with the global monetary expansion of the US Dollar M2 [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL) the sp500 will mostly hold your purchasing power over long term, maybe you will make small gains... To really get more and more wealthy, you need a huge amount of money in the sp500 to really feel a difference after many years. with Bitcoin its way more easy and you don't need the same huge amount of money as with SP500: [https://x.com/JoeConsorti/status/2047007680267530655](https://x.com/JoeConsorti/status/2047007680267530655) "The CAGR of bitcoin's 200-week MA is consistently 30%+. Over the last decade, the lowest it has drifted is 29% over the last 4 years, which measures from near the 2021 top." So you still are making great gains with bitcoin if you hold it longterm. I'm a longterm hodler, still working, but basically I could upgrade my lifestyle every 3-4 years when we reach new all time highs. At first I bought luxury shit I always wanted, cars and so on, but fast realized its only materialism and doesn't give you long term content and happiness, then after that I realized what I always wanted was freedom, freedom to do what I really want in my life. Not being dependent on some employer. So right now I'm working towards being free from work, or "FIRE" as some call it. My honest opinion, but not financial advice is: I really believe if you have an average job, and you are no high earning tech guy from silicon valley with 150k-200k and more wage, then bitcoin is the only real good chance on escaping the system of having to work until you are ill or dead.

Generationhodl

Thanks for that great post! Finally some nice stuff to read here, other than all the low effort memes. I want to FIRE with bitcoin in the next 1-4 years and my personal orientation is the support line of the power law. I know how many Sats I have, and what Bitcoin Price I need to fire, so I just need to look at the support line and look up at what time bitcoin will probably never fall below a specific price again. I'm gonna try it in the next 1-4 years. I mean whats the worst that can happen? We fall below the power-law-support and I will just find myself some new job so I don't have to burn too much satoshis, no problemo. My worst case would be that I'm back in the same position as 99% of the other people - working a job. Follow these 2 guys (both studied physicist, so they know maths lol) for awesome insights into the power law: [https://x.com/moneyordebt](https://x.com/moneyordebt) [https://x.com/Giovann35084111](https://x.com/Giovann35084111) (found the power law back in 2015 and does even have an account here on reddit I believe) You really get awesome informations, my math is not super good but if you want just plain science (fuck yeah) then read the stuff they publish. I personally know and follow the powerlaw since maybe 2017, always followed it and was amazed by how well it did work out. There are different websites for it, this is just one: [https://bitcoinpower.law/](https://bitcoinpower.law/) or to see support line: [https://charts.bitbo.io/long-term-power-law/](https://charts.bitbo.io/long-term-power-law/) personally I think its the only "real" model that will work with bitcoin because its based on science and network effects more than any other model I ever saw for bitcoin. We will see if it will keep on working. IF yes, heck, we possibly see a 10x of the price in 8 years, would be totally awesome. And a CAGR of 30-40% per year is also pretty sick.

Appropriate-Stop6919

*You know what? You are 100% right. I originally built it for a general audience and it was way too simplistic for the FIRE community. I appreciate the honest feedback.* \> *I actually spent the last few hours rewriting the code based on your comment. The V2 now dynamically calculates your moving target Net Worth based on Annual Spending, factors in your custom Safe Withdrawal Rate (SWR), and adjusts the line chart for annual Inflation. You can actually see the exact age where the portfolio line crosses the inflation-adjusted target line.* *It's live on the same link. Mind taking a look and telling me if the math holds up for your spreadsheet scenarios now?*

Ok-Mulberry5919

Are you FIRE yet ?

Upper_War_846

Wait till you see the FIRE (financial independence retire early) groups. There are levels to it. Those fire guys only care about number go up.

GenoPax

I don't expect much and hope to expand skills, wealth so FIRE isn't needed if I like what I'm doing. I'd expect 4-9% gains from stocks after this dip. I expect BTC to have much more modest gains and follow equity cycle a bit more.

Sazmining

Trey Sellers from Unchained came up with something similar already, the Bitcoin FIRE calculator: [https://calc.firebtc.io/](https://calc.firebtc.io/)

Tokyogerman

I would understand a version of this on billionaires. But this would fuck the middle class and keep lots of people from retiring. Not to mention completely destroy FIRE. No more hope for financial independence for normal people, slave away forever

Angelus_25

If you're young and can do basic math and plan on investing or FIRE then Belgium is a no brainer. For a large part of the Netherlands it's like a 20 min drive (in a lower taxed car) to go from 36% tax to 0% tax.

davidn281

I truly believe this. Money amplifies who you are. If you were a saver, you’ll be a super saver. Spender… super spender. Generous, super generous. A hole, mega a hole. I won’t front and pretend I’m mega generous but this is Reddit and I do in real life try and help my coworkers with being financially ready for retirement. I don’t push for Retire Early of the FIRE movement. But I do feel like everyone can aspire to be Financially Independent.

jacestrachan

Uh what lol who’s living in the past?…I’m still investing in both what the hell are you even talking about my gain on mstr alone was enough to FIRE me I’m in my 20s btw you sound so bitter lmao

MaximusClandestinus

>The tax free bracket is not going to exist anymore in 22 months. I like to believe that but I can not find any source on that. >Health insurance own risk will go up. This has been know for over 20 years already. Our society is graying out, the baby boomers stop working and the working minority has to pay for the medical care. This is not new. >So lower and middle class who want to FIRE or at least try to, will not be able to do so anymore. Lower class has no savings so they wouldn't be eligable anyways. Only the upper middle-class (and elite obviously) will pay significantly more tax, however they should be able to afford it. That doesn't mean I agree with the new tax, but the money should come from somewhere, even if we don't like it. As I said earlier, recession is coming, everyone is going to get fucked. Let's just wait and see if the law gets passed in the first place.

CaseLongjumping8537

The tax free bracket is not going to exist anymore in 22 months. Health insurance own risk will go up, and more tax will be paid on salary depending on the scale one is in. The new legislation will slow down compounding interest benefits by an insane amount. So lower and middle class who want to FIRE or at least try to, will not be able to do so anymore

TarnsySauce

Don’t look at the charts. Just but no matter what. I’m tripling my weekly investments during this downturn. FIRE SALE!

wkndatbernardus

Well, I'm about to FIRE at 45 with ~20% BTC and ~80% total US stock market, so I'll be a pretty good test case. I lost about 40% of my BTC value during this downturn so my plan is to initially withdraw only from my equity index bucket and then, when BTC recovers, start withdrawing from that bucket. At current spending, I can withdraw solely from my equities for about 2 years before I have to touch any BTC.

brendan_satsfire

I’m like you - I’ll always be building something. But it’s better to be able to *choose* to do so, rather than to *have* to just to keep the lights on. That’s the “FI” in FIRE and a big part of what stacking sats to retire is all about (satsFIRE).

MartyrForMyLove

I'm coast FIRE and own BTC. The problem with BTC is its volatility also makes my entire net worth volatile. For that reason it's difficult to truly be mostly BTC and FIRE because the assumptions don't calculate well. For consistency sake I still go heavy on ETFs and BTC makes up about 1/3 of my investment portfolio.

Reasonable_Leg_4664

If someone is about to FIRE, the conventional fiat system has served them well. I think the problem with a lot of BTC people is that they’re looking to get rich quick and they can get wrecked. I’d argue that most people are better off with the slow and steady conventional retirement system. Owning hard assets is the way to win, stocks, real estate, bitcoin. Bitcoin is awesome for that but the volatility is too much for most to handle and the people with the amount of invested capital to withstand the volatility can do so because they’ve already been more successful than most and aren’t leveraging or investing money they need soon. I saw something today that said the middle class shouldn’t be buying bitcoin and it made me think. It’s kind of a paradox, that middle class buying bitcoin could be a way to supercharge and catch up, but it’s also much more of a gamble than someone in upper MC or top 10% of American wealth. If you have the testicular fortitude, it’s a great investment. But I see it as a slice of the pie, not the whole thing.

cphpc

“Seems” like it eh? Here’s what it is. Either they don’t own any. They own a lot and are already FIRE’d or they own some but arent saying it. My bet is the latter 2.

Inner-me

Theres nothing wrong but it's just very different from the $$$ range of the community I'm used to (Mainly /FIRE)

guten_pranken

100% spot on Lfmao. Saw numerous comments in FIRE subreddit talking about diversifying and moving more into gold and silver lfmaoooooo because they were way up.

derbyfan1

0.5 in 10 years will be FIRE if you live a conservative life. 0.1.. not so.

AutoModerator

Post is by: Ultrayano and the url/text [ ](https://goo.gl/GP6ppk)is: /r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1qpdcmh/serious_ethereum_vs_solana_in_2026_technical_and/ Hello r/CryptoCurrency I would like to ask and start a discussion in terms of **Ethereum** and **Solana** and how they fare against each other. Growth is still a factor here, but exposure is much more important to me right now, which directly translates into growth long-term. # Context I feel like right now we are in a phase of a heavy transition into a future, like we only had it during the **".com Bubble"**. The transition includes major technologies like **AI** but also **Blockchains** and thus Cryptocurrencies as a whole. The reason that this feeling is stronger than before, is that banks and financial institutions started to see Cryptocurrencies as a liability to their business model, since **yields** are much higher, when invested into a **stablecoin**, compared to a **bank**. With the political and economical landscape right now being really rocky, we might experience one of the biggest wealth transfer in a long while in the coming 5 years. As a investor myself and also a technical guy, I want to have enough exposure into the right things, rather than gamble my life away. I don't believe to be one of the people that are the next "Warren Buffett", but my life-goal is to reach FIRE as young as possible, to life a self-fulfilling life. I don't really care about expensive materialistic stuff, but about the autonomy that wealth can buy, so supercars or even Yachts are entirely uninteresting for me. The goal is to reach FIRE with a yearly return enough to give a family of 4 a comfortable life. # Discussion points In the current landscape there are mainly three major players that are talked about a lot in this space. The first one being * Bitcoin - for obvious reasons and being the grandfather of cryptocurrencies * Ethereum - as a major player and currently the main candidate to be the future world computer * Solana - the younger competitor of Ethereum with a theoretical throughput of about 10x that of Ethereum Ethereum is often cited as the battle-tasted stable system in the space, while trying to fulfill a solution to the Blockchain trilemma, namely "**Decentralization**", "**Scalability**" and "**Security**". Vitalik Buterin very recently said, that they finally solved the trilemma and rolling out a solution mid-year in the "**Glamsterdam**" upgrade, which nudges Ethereum closer to the final solution. Ethereum heavily relies on L2 solutions compared to having everything on the main chain. The mainchain is said to reach 10k TPS after the upgrade with L2s reaching 100k+ TPS, which is already well above today's levels with for example Visa. Solana on the other hand is frequently cited as the high-throughput powerhouse of the ecosystem, engineered specifically as a "monolithic" architecture that prioritizes speed and low costs. It compromises on security and thus doesn't need many nodes to be down, for the Blockchain to be entirely down, but all of it is on the main chain. Solana wants to solve their reliability issues with the upgrade "**Firedancer**" which is also said to lift the throughput to a staggering 1M+ TPS in lab tests. From a security perspective, Ethereum is the clear winner for high value transactions since it's stability and security are second to none compared to Solana, while Solana is the clear winner for fast and low value retail transactions like monthly payments for example. From a technical and Blockchain purist view, Solana does seem like a "fancier server" with high risk of wealth being locked away forever. While Ethereum is not perfect in this regard, it adheres more to the purist philosophy of blockchain. Solana also does need insanely higher specs (\~6+ cores, 256GB+ RAM, 10Gbps symmetric internet) compared to Ethereum (technically runs on a Raspberry Pi) to have a node, while 32 Ethereum isn't that low anymore too. # Verdict From the perspective of maturity and stability Ethereum does clearly win the race of being the global backbone of the futures financial system, especially with Blackrocks BUIDL PoC among other projects. Investors start to treat it more like a "**blue chip investment**" nowadays tho, since while L2 solutions are one of the biggest strengths of Ethereum, it's also on of the biggest hampers to growth and is is seen as reliable and stable "slow investment". L2 solutions don't really need Ethereum as fuel, which is why a lot of things can be done extremely cheap or in a way that bypasses Ethereum as cryptocurrency entirely, while still relying on the backbone itself. Solana however, even with less stability is said to be poised for the mass. Since everything is running on the mainchain and uses Solana as the de-facto fuel, it is said to be a riskier bet, but with the potential of explosive growth. It's not made to be a stable asset (yet) tho. Ethereum is often compared to IBM (boring but stable) while Solana sits in-between being the next Sun Microsystems (huge for the time, but failed) or the next Google in the ecosystem. To reach FIRE fast, one could argue to put everything into Solana for growth in the next years. But the healthy path would make a 80/20 or 70/30 split the most efficient and safe for high growth. I've known Bitcoin since 2012, but was still a kid back then, while I also knew about Ethereum starting in 2017 and am well aware of the whole DAO debacle that happened. I've also known Solana since the early days when it had a valuation of around 20$ per SOL, but treated is a a gamble since the technicals (reliability) were historically seen as not good and it also got a lot of critique for the way it's architected. I know more about Ethereum, than I do about Solana, so I'm open to learn. I've seen many promising chains like NEO (formerly Antshares) rise and die, so I always treated Solana in a similar way. **I'd love to discuss the technicals, the exposure and risks, the growth possibilities and also learn more about those systems.** *I'm well aware, that there are competitors like Cardano, Polkadot and Avalanche, but Cardano is the closest to the two others while Avalanche is the furthest in terms of adoption, so please refrain to shill those unless explicitly necessary for the discussion.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoMarkets) if you have any questions or concerns.*

brendan_satsfire

Just want to say a massive thank you firstly for the kind words 🙏 And yes, totally agree about adding in the power law! Great suggestion. I thought about that pre launch and I’m definitely going to implement soon. It’ll be one of the options you can select for “bitcoin paradigms” along with the Saylor 30% CAGR option already there. I agree with you, those calculators are great and I’ve used them before as well. The only drawback is they don’t model other assets, and I’m not 100% in bitcoin so I couldn’t use those tools exclusively. So that’s my goal: I want satsfire.app to handle all the bitcoin modeling AND stocks/bonds/cash (+ more soon) so people can use one tool instead of several for FIRE planning. Thanks again for your feedback! Stay tuned, making updates every day.

Generationhodl

THank you very much, I'm also active in the Fire Subs, and its 100% true that people see Bitcoin as the pure devil lol. I just rarely see other bitcoiner comment that they are retired or want to retire on bitcoin. You get mostly downvoted to hell lol Its a lot of salty people. They saved their money in Index Funds for 30 Years to reach 1 Million $ while some bitcoiners do it in like 5-10 Years. To me it seems like missing understanding and also pure envy. Thanks for that Calculator! There are already some calculators out there that use the power law, and I think the power law is the only reliable model out there. For example: [https://bitcoincompounding.com/](https://bitcoincompounding.com/) or [https://www.dontbuybitcoin.com/bitcoin-FIRE-calculator/](https://www.dontbuybitcoin.com/bitcoin-FIRE-calculator/) On X there is also some nice stuff: [https://x.com/sminston\_with/status/1917605539279954391](https://x.com/sminston_with/status/1917605539279954391) But Thank you, I bookmarked your Calc!

Hurricaneshand

FIRE?

SomeColdBoi

Pain? All im hearing is FIRE SALE!

ImpressiveRelief37

Nope unless you already are a millionaire and buy a dozen bitcoin won’t get you there sorry. Not on the short or medium term. Just see bitcoin as a ~15% CAGR asset from now on. Similar to how the SP500 is performing during bull years. You need to adopt the FIRE mindset and save most of your salary each years for 10-20 years to retire early.

penty

Started in late 2012-early 2013. For reasons had to take a sabbatical late 2014. BTC has slowly transformed it over the years -> mini-retiremet -> Lean FiRE -> FIRE. I expect this cycle or the next to push me into Fat FIRE although the RE is getting less E as I get older. In the early days my tolerance and procrastination was just slightly bigger than the cycle .. it'd drop super low and I'd say "I guess it's done, I'll get everything set up to sell.".... But then that would be the turn around so I never did. NOW I just hold no matter what, I don't try to play the cycle or guess tips or bottoms. I expect the cycle so I don't freak out when it happens. Hold and WAGMI.

MustacheSupernova

I’m just here because I’m thoroughly entertained by your desire to “win” this stupid conversation. The only reason it’s even taking place is because you were too dumb to understand the point I was making. I can go as long as you want, it’s all entertainment for me. I FIRE’d out last year and I have all the time in the world to joust with Gen Z neckbeards… 🫡

ObviousTie4

It’s not about Bitcoin. The “Dream” is to be financially more stable than you are today—until the point of escape velocity. Here’s a short lesson on FIRE (Financially Independent, Retire Early). Say you earn $100 right now and spend only $80, and invest $20. That $20 might become $25 at some point in time. What that means is: if you need $80, and you have $25 at some point (adjusted for inflation), you have pre-earned 25.3% of your future expenses. Let’s say you are 28, and your target retirement age is 68. You have 40 years of work and (say) 20 years of retirement ahead of you—assuming you live till 88. No one knows this of course, but let’s go with average numbers to keep it simple. This means every 2 months, you save and invest $40, and that needs to become $80 (adjusted for inflation) by the time you can retire. The less you spend, the bigger starting base you have. And the less you spend, the more lean your lifestyle is. How inflation is a game changer (and how to use it in your favour) You need a house to live in all your life. Inflation increases your income, as well as your cost of living. Once you buy a house and have a steady mortgage, the payments are fixed. Which means the earlier you buy, that part of your lifestyle never inflates, since the payments are fixed. In fact, if you buy early enough in life and pay it off quickly, you can then invest a much bigger chunk into your investments since you don’t have any house payments. On the flip side, if your interest rate is low—lower than say 5–6%—you can safely assume you are better off not paying off the home early. Instead, any extra money should be invested, as it will generally almost always appreciate more than your mortgage interest. Dave Ramsey has an 8-step plan on how to achieve this. My logic is similar and only differs on one point: he says pay off your home loan no matter what. My logic is: don’t pay it off if your mortgage interest rate is 3–4% less than the average S&P increase rate. Well, at least this is my “END GAME”

cannedshrimp

It’s the book that started the FIRE movement. An oldie, but an interesting read if you’re into that type of self improvement. The entire investment section used to be entirely on US Treasuries 😂

wh977oqej9

I don't believe, that you didn't have just 1-10€ in 2010, to get you a FIRE. I had 10€ in the kindergarten, just from the gifts. 😆

ImpressiveRelief37

When you have enough bitcoin you can also just sell, pay the taxes and be done with it. This is risk free. When you retire the last thing you want is stressing out and watching the price of bitcoin every hour. Source: I’ve FIRE’d 4 years ago

CryptoPulsee

Traditional FIRE math relies heavily on the 4% rule, which is getting harder to trust with current monetary debasement. Bitcoin fixes this by storing value outside the system. I’ve stopped diversifying into bonds entirely and treat BTC as the ultimate long-term savings vehicle 👾🔥.

EngineeringCool5521

The plan should FIRE. Invest all your extra money into dividends and have them reinvest. Diversify, preferably reits, $O, $AGNC, $HRZN, $PSEC, $ORC. Then some into $VOO or $SPY. Set the dividends to reinvest every month. Then when you are my age (in 21 years) YOu would have a substantial passive income and could practically do whatever you want. prompt: "If I am 17 now, and I invested $500 a month into $O and $HRZN 50/50 ratio and reinvested the dividend assuming they stay the same. How much would I have after 21 years of dividend investment?" chatgpt: "... Where: • PMT = $500/month • r ≈ **9.5% annual return (0.095)** • n = 12 (compounding monthly) • t = 21 years Plug in to a financial calculator: 🧾 **Estimated total value after 21 years ≈ \~$545,000 – \~$580,000** ... That equates to roughly \~$6.8k/month in dividends at that point (if yields stayed similar)**"**

Icy_Acanthisitta_345

Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) - the goal of achieving financial independence and retiring early.

chrisganjunior

Generally a normal thing to discuss imo, but it's crazy to me that you're doing your FIRE through bitcoin. Don't you think there's even a small chance that quantum will kill it?

dynastyfriar

2-3 decades is a long time. You put it out there like you are set to FIRE on bitcoin

OhhhhBillly

It could be many things, my living expenses paid for the rest of my life as I slowly convert to USD against its YOY compounding growth, say 7% per year after 2036 based on a FIRE model like https://bitcoincompounding.com/ It could be used for a medical emergency, medical expenses have been one of its best use cases since the beginning, Hal Finney cashed a-lot of his bitcoin out to pay medical bills before he died. It can be used as collateral on loans to create more wealth depending on what you do with the loan. A loan to buy a car will just depreciate your value but a loan on a small property that you rent out or airbnb could potentially turn into the loan/property being paid off by tenants and then you have another asset to borrow against, all while still holding your bitcoin. Using bitcoin as collateral is one of the best use cases because it’s not a sale, which is not a taxable event. Anything regarding a sale for USD is taxable which is what most bitcoiners want to avoid unless absolutely necessary. I have seen guys sell to pay off their mortgage, while I respect it, I dont see much logic in that as bitcoin growth has outpaced housing. What you get in place of cashing out bitcoin to pay the house off is a huge taxable event, and then you get to keep all the mortgage payments (cash) after that. So paying off debt is really a trade of a long term compounding investment for cash, not just the cash you get from the trade, but the cash you keep from your employment income that you dont have to use paying off an interest bearing loan for the next 20-30 years. How it really changes your life is that you may have a shit job, have no cash, you may be broke just paying the bills but there is always future growth happening and you always have options to start a business, your never truly broke when you hold 1 BTC, you just have to be smart with it. You could sell a portion of it at one of the local peaks and buy a semi truck, get your CDL and start hauling, get your own contracts, haul your ass off and start pulling 350k a year, and then buy more bitcoin back than you ever had before, plus have surplus cash. These are just a few of my views and opinions on what 1 BTC can do to change your life, but if you just sit on it forever the growth will be for future generations, not for you and I encourage people to use it while their here, saving some for future generations is great, I support this, but holding it forever and never using any of it to build anything for you is just like not having any at all.

Specific_Strain217

That's over 7k Satoshis my man, you are making your way to FIRE!

DeoVeritati

At that point, you've kind of already won, and it reminds me of the fisherman and the businessman parable. Any kind of currency is an ends to a means. Congrats on achieving that, and, if you're into FIRE, go fuck yourself. If not, keep living the dream!

wh977oqej9

Not in a decade. For me life changing would mean FIRE. But for this I would need at least 500k€ at this moment. 0.5BTC at 1M€ - it could be life changing.

LargeSnorlax

Eh. Plenty of people shitposting on here when they're FIRE. You don't lose the urge to shitpost when you're retired, if anything you have way more time to do it. Not saying this guy is (big doubt) but there's plenty of comfy people chilling here, despite the moaners sometimes.

Nice_Daikon6096

I believe this narrative reaches many. People who don’t want to do unfulfilling work for 40 years. The FIRE community. Normies who don’t understand why the most pushed method of saving for retirement causes them to not access their own money for decades. And the seasoned investors who DO understand and realize it’s all a sham. This is many people’s first meme coin for a reason. Because it’s much more than a meme it’s a movement. Once I’m able to retire off of 401jk I will continue to create content that hopefully helps others find better ways to carve their own path and benefit from community vs benefiting corporations. I also hope to travel extensively with my wife and meet people and integrate with cultures around the world. Together as humans we are more powerful and capable than any group of elites. I’m here to tap into and take back my own power.

Coreo606

IT’S A FIRE…. sale!

thermobear

WE’RE HAVING A FIRE … sale.

freedomfate18

What a joker. You are assuming capital is from America. Sorry to burst your bubble as much as you would like to think that America rule every domain it simply is not true. Sad to tell u but crypto like American stock market is largely owned by Asia. China, India and South east Asia specifically. You can draw on facts yourself that China amount of cash in the world is 1.5 x of America. With reasonable debt that is used to build infrastructure. America 37 trillion probably 40 if your lucky by end of trump. America is doing what China needs destroying itself from within by making mistakes. American strength is in allies it’s in working together decades of negotiations, under hand means to get these being thrown away by Donald trump over night. And sorry to burst your bubble America only attains 22% of total crypto capital. China 19%. The rest of Asia and the world holds the remaining 50+ %. So in short term American policies can affect crypto but remember if crypto didn’t need America for the past cycles it don’t need it today. Remember that from someone who is in this for 12 years + on the third cycle. What you need to focus to earn money is to be world aware not a frog stuck in a well thinking America alone will affect crypto fully. When you remember and understand the stakeholders involved then perhaps you may be able to achieve FIRE

DEATHbySp00Nz15

It had a bigger % drop in 2022. What is FIRE?

Captain_Planet

Ha, they don't like BItocin in FIRE (even though it has been the single best route to it over the last 15 years)!

Fit_Yam7845

Depends on your expenses etc. I would sell 100-125 btc and put it into ETF index funds and retire with 4% yearly withdrawal (FIRE). You would be set for life. Let the rest ride.

Ok-Hyena-2175

Let me put it this way… I’m standing in front of a burning building, and I’m offering you FIRE INSURANCE ON IT!

Pure_Concentrate8770

bitcoin dominence dumping its BITCHASS we are gonna go FIRE

Budget_Eye5861

I sold 1/2 my stash Bought a 2026 vehicle Banked (2) years income \[nothing big $40,444.04/year or $777.77/week\] HODLing my other 1/2 coins \[100K XRP\] for a dip to $1.40 USD/XRP for a wash sale BUY back all the coins I sold and banked with a LOSS in taxes \- ready for 2029 - lol !FIRE!

Kie_ra

Stacking is smart, what you're suggesting is downright retarded. I suggest you learn about CGT, utilising loans, and some principles of FIRE. Good on you for not having kids - your first investment should be a vasectomy.

penty

You never put in more than you can afford to lose especially back then. I started a sabbatical for nonBitcoin reasons back in late 2014... It's slowly grewto a mini retirement then lean FIRE and this cycle is FIRE moving toward Fat FIRE.. although with time the 'E' is becoming less so.

Drizznarte

Learn to create value first, IE get a job . Being able to create value is more important than being able to store it. Everyone has there whole life to stack. If you want to sacrifice your younger years for financial freedom Bitcoin can help but look into FIRE Financial Independence Retire early . There is a sub for it.

partialfriction

38 and effectively coast FIRE because of my holdings. Money is about choices and options. I don't sell not because I'm existentially tied to my bitcoin ideologically. I don't sell because i can maintain an agreeable life and give myself (or loved ones) even more options in the future.

penty

Same, starts late 2012-early 2013. Unrelated sabbatical in late 2014 slowly stretched out thru lean FIRE to now FIRE.. approaching Fat FIRE and as Bitcoin has grown up.

usrname_chex_out

Considering you’ve got 3.5M and a paid off house, you’re pretty set for life as long as you keep yourself well-diversified. If you want to buy more bitcoin, there will probably be a time in the future when there is a substantial discount (another round of tariffs, recession, or whatever), and even if that’s from higher prices, it will probably represent a better risk-adjusted reward for you. I personally don’t count my Bitcoin toward my FIRE number. It’s likely to either massively outperform or massively underperform typical markets, which is not the kind of risk I’m willing to take with my retirement plans. So unless you are aiming to amass incredible wealth and are willing to risk the life you’ve already made for yourself, I’d say keeping your BTC position modest is probably a good idea

penty

I've done okay, my 2014, non Bitcoin related, sabbatical turned into a mini-retirement.. to lean FIRE.. to FIRE... And this and the next cycle probably Fat Fire...( Although the RE part is getting later. Lol)

ernie-jo

OH MY GOD THERE’S A FIRE!!!!!!! sale

anyuser_19823

OMG WE’RE HAVING A FIRE . . sale (https://youtu.be/t5uSuyVBp8A?si=FZxRhZBb2OEDCQja)

fire_him

All great questions. We are very pretty vanilla, we have 2 holdings on the stock side SPY and QQQ. 3 assets total including BTC. We were all very much inspired by the FIRE movement so keeping investment simple made sense for us. We buy x amount every month. Plan is to not sell any BTC at all ever (willing to transact in sats if needed). Its also under a LLC so we each report it. Decision to sell, how we would sell, etc all written in an operating agreement we have. For example, we all have to agree to sell an asset if we head that direction.

genadi_brightside

Probably not, as purchasing value of USD will decrease. FIRE is a scam

Ludjik

Of course I live in a low cost of living country (compared to the USA) and $400k is pretty damn close to my FIRE number. I'd be better off taking the money, investing it in index funds and waiting a few years before retiring.

jay-valkyrie

Same here. IMO: 1) nothing outperforms Bitcoin over the long run 2) If Bitcoin doesn’t make it, we’re all doomed (including no coiners) so nothing else matters. 3) Stocks require depending on a “trusted” 3rd party. No self-custody there. Only reason I’d be in the stock market is if I had a 401k or IRA that didn’t allow for self custodying Bitcoin. In that case I’d be following the FIRE method outlined by this YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNfJwflp2ifaSMsQ4sXa1hHynksDSKGS&si=uRYpFiOPZdhAUb73

Reasonable_Band1536

This will be the best/funniest thing I read tonight. All of the FIRE groups deny postings that encourage it. I hope one day I find myself sitting on a beach, sipping a drink and strike up a conversation with somebody from a FIRE group and be able to tell them that I did the same thing they did in a shorter period of time because of Bitcoin. Edit: Go back and tell them “Your boos mean nothing. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.”

Reasonable_Band1536

This will be the best/funniest thing I read tonight. All of the FIRE groups deny postings that encourage it. I hope one day I find myself sitting on a beach, sipping a drink and strike up a conversation with somebody from a FIRE group and be able to tell them that I did the same thing they did in a shorter period of time because of Bitcoin.

veegaz

FARTCOIN ON FIRE TODAY Probably had tacobell last night

Aussiehash

From reading your post history, you have around $100k/year to invest and already own US equities. Why don't you just invest a % of your annual investment savings into Bitcoin over the next 5 years (given that you intend to FIRE)

user_name_checks_out

Sure. I just took a peek at that subreddit and spotted this thread: [Crypto in a FIRE portfolio?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/1nsn3qq/crypto_in_a_fire_portfolio/) OP gets unanimously crucified. So that tells me that it is not possible to have a conversation about bitcoin in that subreddit.

XXsforEyes

Interested as well. Too old for FIRE. I have a good nest egg outside BTC but not enough in itself to retire. I have faith in BTC long-term but it’s going to the next generation to become the kind of wealth they deserve.

LazyLifeguard

I am retired since 2017. Recently sold 95% of my BTC, diversified and following basic FIRE mindset. That being said if I would be younger without kids and family I would definitely keep holding longer. Now I value security over volatility and high gains. It really depends on your lifestyle and what gives you peace of mind.

2xfun

Exactly the same thing is happening now. The majority of the retail can’t tell the difference between clown coin and BTC. Try mentioning BTC in the investing or the FIRE subs….