DEFI

retirementdreams

"Just sell some BTC, buy these shitcoins, use that shitcoin alpha to buy back a bigger stack of BTC and retire." "DEFI Passive Income" "Nodes as a service" etc. And.. it's gone.

Lez0fire

Yeah, it was the same situation in 2020, every single alt dropped -80% since ATH during the DEFI summer 2020, everything was dead, pesimism was at ATH... It turns out that's the best moment to buy. June-July-August 2020 = Defi Summer September-October-November 2020 = Bear months for alts, -80% for most Winter-Spring 2024 = AI and Meme Winter May-June-July-August 2024 = Bear months for alts, -80% for most What's the difference?

Frequent_Finance3904

Just buy DEFTF. DEFI.TECH It has bitcoin, eth, alt coins, cripto tradind, staking, etps....

WotTheHellDamnGuy

Very simple, they don't exist and, shocking as it may seem, Google is wrong. My guess is some DEFI firm created a report for Crypto that threw in anyone and everyone who ever gave even just their email address in an information request field on some website as a crypto enthusiast and Google scooped it up as fact.

provoko

It's slowly creeping into traditional financial system and DEFI has so many advantages & higher yield while being transparent; defi just has to solve the hacking problems & needs more insurances.

OderWieOderWatJunge

Also you'll pay a lot of fees. Just find out where to buy these shitcoins on DEFI (swaps). You can buy USDT, SOL or whatever on a real Exchange with lower spread and fees and then swap it for your shitcoin

AvatarOfMomus

"The Crypto Community" has a vested interest in never calling Tether out, even if they got caught under-reporting reserves (again) or committing outright fraud. Tether is one of the few USD on or off ramps for Crypto, it's one of the principle methods rich Chinese citizens are using for evading currency controls, and it underpins a huge amount of the buying and selling of tokens through both exchanges and DEFI like Uniswap. Basically if Tether goes under it takes the price of every Crypto token with it, so regardless of how shady they act or what they do, the entire market has a vested interest in not calling them out or even really talking about it. You can see this in the lack of discussion around everything you're mentioning here, as well as every report of them freezing tokens or working with the government, which between the two should have the vast majority of the Crypto community calling for their blood... and yet, crickets...

ThatChrisGuy7

Why would he sell AAVE right when they announced a partnership with Eric Trumps DEFI thing lol. Love or hate him or means volume

DrPechanko

I don't know about panicking, I just think things got REAL boring REAL quick. Metaverse seems dead as a doornail; blockchain based initiatives (election voting on chain, food supply chains, medical records) all great ideas, but not being implemented; NFTS, we don't even need to get started on that failure; crypto as a payment system, CEX's still rule, selling your crypto for cash is what people are doing (even if they use crypto based debit cards); DEFI has been a mess of scams and rugpulls; meme mania has turned social media into a shill factory and gambling den. What is left? Wait for BTC to go up and pull ALTCOINS and their respective ecosystems up so we can get the F out of this mess, right. Praying for a 3X on Cardano? Crypto is not a long term game (long term is 10 years), crypto is a follow the hype train on cycles, get the F out, realize profit, buy back in, rinse and repeat game. Anyone who held Polkadot for the long game realized this the hard way, how about COSMOS, XRP anyone? You can either make money, or hold paper gains up and down like a moron watching your portfolio erase and print. Long-term investments are ETFS....."boring" stocks, surefire companies that will be around forever. Not space coins. Suffer through the boredom, and get out when BTC goes and the market follows....rinse and repeat. Don't hold long term staring at the portfolio on your phone doing nothing. RUN, then come back when it's cheap, then RUN again.

Otherwise-Trifle892

I wouldn't do that until bigger institutions let you use bitcoin as collateral. The DEFI companies around at the moment I wouldn't trust.

Frequent_Finance3904

Its also about introducing the blockchain technology to the financial markets, people trust less and less the tradicional markets due to market manipulation, naked shorting, etc. If the shares of a company are on the blockchain, and all transactions are registered there, then you would not be able to short a stock above 100% of the float... so, apart from points mentioned above, the stock market in general, commodities markets, even real estate would work better in the blockchain... So, again, that is why DEFI seems like a good investment, in my view at least.

kickboxingpenguin

I see what you’re saying! I can make an argument most easily with a libertarian hat, but there are arguments as a conservative or liberal. As a conservative, you have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and property. As a liberal, crypto democratizes assets, takes money out of the hands of “big corporations”, and facilitates services to the disadvantaged and the bankless. As a socialist / communist, you are looking at who owns the “means of production,” in this case Bitcoin and DEFI transfer the role of Big Banks to the people. It maybe a stretch for communists although you can argue Bitcoin promotes governance transparency.

kickboxingpenguin

Huh? Why are you on a Bitcoin sub? Please spend more time DYOR about this space and DEFI. Maybe you just like to going back and forth with a CEX like Coinbase for being locked out of your account per your latest post 💩

Whiskeywonder

Is it my problem you focused on talking about something u didnt do any research on? If you did then you would know how it trustlessly with cryptography exchanges the wallet ownership AND access as the funds enter you wallet. Its called DEFI. Clue is in the D. Dyor. And welcome again.

rsa121717

Not sure of what youre asking. Anyone can reinvent the whole system, the question is who would use it? The number of miners impacts centralization of the network, not the amount of bitcoin held by someone. It seems like youre mistaking mining with with most DEFI/DAO governance shitcoins

Capital-Physics4042

You could probably buy from Kucoin. Or use DEFI if you know what your doing and use Rosen Bridge to swap from some coin to ERGO. DYOR, and good luck!

SmoothGoing

https://mempool.space/tx/bec84ce07490a2d6caca45d21dc190374a4148f1ba6e621c43da55ed5c9d4461 this confirmed last september. CB should have credited you for it then. Move to a better wallet immediately. Forgot blockchain.com forever. There's no such thing as DEFI wallet. It's not De since it's with one company, and it's not Fi since it's various tokens, not money.

Gloomy_Fee9829

Believe me, it is also my favorite wallet, the problem is with SWAPs that take you to unknown sites and then force you to accept third-party terms and conditions to wash their hands, imagine leaving a DEFI and ending up in a SWAP requesting KYC and all your personal information to keep your money. If I wanted to go to a centralized exchange, I would look for more reliable sites or at least those that would let me see who I will do the exchange with.

welltoobad

also if swapping is on DEFI, the gas fee is a capital gain/loss for taxes, it's a pain

jawni

yeah, and I held BONK as well that destroyed both of them so we can go down that pointless road if you want but I'd rather not waste my time. The point is that the *risk*/reward for SOL, with memecoin activity, nft activity, RWA, DEFI, payment parternships, etc) doing an 8x is far better than a chain with 0 adoption doing a 19x. Listen, it's great that Kaspa did a 19x but it needs to do a 19x in finding PMF and a 19x in improving it's tech.

instant_king

I wrote under .3%. Most BTC ETFs are under 0.3% this is correct. A few are above, but that's your own choice I guess. * **ARK 21Shares Bitcoin ETF (ARKB)** * Expense Ratio: 0.21% * Fee Waiver: No fees for the first 6 months or first $1 billion of inflows * **Bitwise Bitcoin ETF (BITB)** * Expense Ratio: 0.20% * Fee Waiver: No fees for the first 6 months or first $5 billion of inflows * **Blackrock iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT)** * Expense Ratio: 0.25% * Fee Waiver: 0.12% for the first 6 months or first $5 billion of inflows * **Franklin Bitcoin ETF (EZBC)** * Expense Ratio: 0.19% * Fee Waiver: No fees for the first $10 billion of inflows * **Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Trust (FBTC)** * Expense Ratio: 0.39% * **Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC)** * Expense Ratio: 1.50% * **Hashdex Bitcoin ETF (DEFI)** * Expense Ratio: 0.90% * **Invesco Galaxy Bitcoin ETF (BTCO)** * Expense Ratio: 0.39% * Fee Waiver: No fees for the first 6 months or first $5 billion of inflows * **VanEck Bitcoin Trust (HODL)** * Expense Ratio: 0.21% * **Valkyrie Bitcoin Fund (BRRR)** * Expense Ratio: 0.49% * **WisdomTree Bitcoin Fund (BTCW)** * Expense Ratio: 0.30%

MiguelLancaster

0.19% - 0.25% in all cases but DEFI at 0.90% and GBTC at 1.5%

MiguelLancaster

0.19% - 0.25% in all cases but DEFI at 0.90% and GBTC at 1.5%

uncapchad

I know in the UK one of the ideas being mulled is not CBDCs but a limited set of stables permitted, issued by Treasury and I think will eventually be the case where you can only on/off-ramp via these govt approved stables. They already have pretty much slammed the door on non-KYC via the banks and card services who may only use govt approved payment processors. Some DEFI services geo-block the UK. And as you mentioned, sending non-KYC coins on exchanges can trigger AML checks and other pain. So I'm pretty sure this "other" market already exists. Probably this is how people in forbidden and restricted countries already manage. Also laws are changing or being expanded to keep and extend the remit of surveillance. We just saw another article about dossiers of assets. These things all seem benign to begin with - for your and everyone's protection they say - but it does really feel like we're less in control of our lives and personal/private information. And then punishments are also becoming more insane. So yes, I think this market already exists, I think many would be interested to be part of it but equally many would and should be very afraid that they end up being charged under some terror or other national security laws.

uncapchad

India tried various levels of Forbidding - incl blocking ISPs. There are always ways, especially with DEFI. Eventually they decided a massive tax was the better solution. So they pay a transaction tax at source and then a flat 30% and you can't off-set losses against gains. Nodes and miners will just get up and move somewhere else if things got that wild. They've done it countless times before. I think every govt has learnt by now, that it's better for all to have a safe, regulated market than forbidding things. Except for China - but I'm pretty sure there are Chinese who still find a way.

uncapchad

it's where you got them from. If you bought them on an exchange, they will more than likely be KYC as pretty much every exchange has to KYC these days. If you used DEFI, P2P services, played games incl casinos where you were paid in coins, more than likely not KYC. The problem with all of this is you can also be guilty by association. Example you get some coins from an address which is on a watch-list or that address uses mixers or casinos etc. Hence AML trigger, hence the investigation to see who is up to no good.

WickB00m1

Hey super curious about polygon. I've been researching Cosmos sdk/ Terra also pretty deep since pre 2022, and XRP. I noticed XRP going to use COMET bft just like Cosmos... New CosmWasm / Neutron. / Cosmos hub... Are these related? I saw Hedera and Celestia are joining SDK NEXT??? I just see the Change happening, seems like polygon sdk tools, cosmos,sdk chain and tools with the Terra luna classic revamp seems like a group planning something. The Byzantine Fault Tolerant is sort of a giveaway. I was able to access some docs through info.cern.ch and looked up commerce under eos/Cosmos IBC .. THERE ARE UNRELEASED DOCS. IF ANYONE WANTS TO GET ANY SCREEN SHOTS OR URLS LET ME KNOW. THANKS CHAD CURIOUS IF HEDERA AND CELESTIA ARE GOING TO GO CENTRALIZED-DEFI ...

pituitary_monster

If you have somehow free electricity, yes. Then again there are some free lottery DEFI pools out there.

biba8163

> Tell me you don't understand how MSTR works, without telling me you don't understand how MSTR works. MSTR issues debt to buy BTC --> BTC Increase, MSTR Marketcap Increases --> MSTR Issues Equity to buy BTC --> BTC Increase, MSTR Marketcap Increase, Weight in Indices Increases --> MSTR Issues more equity to buy BTC --> Rinse and Repeat Ad Infinitum This could go on for a long while but Saylor has not found an infinite money glitch in the universe. At some point this will go wrong. Tell me what happens when there is a long periods of malaise of BTC price is going consistently down Tell me what happens if/when when shareholders put a board in place to change this strategy and they decide to liquidate BTC creating a cascading downward spiral. Tell me what happens when when Saylor dies and the shareholders and board pivot. Tell me what happens when other companies like the one in Japan start mimicking this strategy and one of them fails. We deride banks with their risky financial engineering and exotic derivative financial products what eventually collapse and put the entire global economy at risk. We deride shitcoins claiming to create DEFI where all they do is borrow with leverage or earn APY on some swap platform by by providing liquidty and yield farm worthless tokens. What MicroStrategy is doing is also some degenerate financial engineering but a lot of Bitcoin has become such a religion that you cannot be critical of Saylor.

JustStopppingBye

Yeah and you wouldn’t have DEFI without them

LinsaFTW

What are the best DEFI platforms for someone that wants to invest PAXG and on Liquidity pools? I currently know of Uniswap and Pancake swap but some pools seem not very profitable.

uncapchad

I think the trend in most countries is another hard look at stables. I know in the[ UK](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/paper/2023/dp/regulatory-regime-for-systemic-payment-systems-using-stablecoins-and-related-service-providers) they are considering allowing only those that are issued or authorised by Treasury and making them fully KYC - as it already is with BTC and cryptocurrencies. Agencies such as International Settlements are also looking at stables. I suspect there's a lot of collaboration going on between countries and agencies on this issue. As to the impact it won't all be great and debates are going to be fierce. There will be more control and oversight. It also should mean that the general banking system can get involved, if only with stables. It could also mean you can only on/off-ramp with a stable which in turn forces KYC, reduces privacy, P2P, DEFI probably wouldn't need to be forbidden if the only on/off ramp allowed is a stable. You can only cash in your stable for currency at your bank etc. Just thinking off the top of my head here. I'm sure there are some benefits in there somewhere!

x_devman

Use DEFI platformS Lock your btc and get loan

GTFOHbish

Dapps, payments, NFTs, blinks, DEFI . Its by far THE best Layer 1 available and is only getting faster and cheaper. IT IS THE BLACK HOLE. ⚫️

biba8163

> Not every blockchain is on those 3 major platforms the point is that blockchains can't support any platforms that are usable because they don't have the infrastructure handle the capacity, latency, stability, availability...because they are fucking blockchains - inherently inefficient > potential of web3 technology is massive and anyone that thinks differently, is the boomer that said the Internet would be nothing. - 1994 was the year the web really became publicly accessible and Netscape Navigator was available to browse around the few web pages that were served - 1994 was the year Amazon was founded - 1999 Amazon had $1.6 Billion in revenue in 5 years. By the late 1990s, websites provided utility and people used it everyday. Most companies failed, even successful companies were losing money but there were companies generating revenue... - People actually used Amazon to buy books and a few other products online - People actually used Ebay to buy things from other people - People actually used Altavista, Hotbot, etc until Google came along in 1998 to search for things online - People actually used Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, etc to get email - People actually used services like Dialpad to make phone calls - People actually used IMDB to look up information and reviews about movies Tell me what Web3 is used for again? - DEFI gang earning high APY on cuckswap, rugpullswap, etc by providing liquidty and yield farming worthless tokens which have no utility but to make the founders rich - Muh, look at the Total Value Locked (TVL) on my shitcoin platform on yield farming rugpull tokens and staking to stabilize the prices while the founders dump tokens on "investors"....oh no, TVL dropped -95% since most of the value locked was scam pumped tokens

coojw

With DEFI loans, you don’t have a one year limit you you can keep these loans open indefinitely as long as you keep the loan to value ratio in good health

Last-Technology-5406

I do know idiot , when it’s on DEFI you don’t need to though , cause it’s not yours technically holy moly

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by FrogsAreBest123. > # Algorand > > * Disclaimers: > * This post is heavily inspired and sometimes copied word for word from my old post about algo. seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttc/comment/hh6z73n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). > * I do own Algorand and act as a governor. Algorand represents under 10% of my total portfolio. > * **Background Information for people who have no idea what Algorand is** > * Feel free to skip this if you know the basics of Algo. > * Algorand has been built off of three institutions, AlgoCapital, Algorand Foundation, and Algorand Inc. > * AlgoCapital has rebranded to [Borderless Capital](https://www.borderlesscapital.io/), but regardless, they're an asset trading corporation, they also build financial products to support Algorand and its ecosystem. > * The [Algorand Foundation](https://www.algorand.foundation/) distributes the token "Algo" > * [Algorand Inc.](https://www.algorand.com/futurefi/) does the R&D for Algorand. Of which, Algorand Inc owns a few [patents](https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/16709719/ifw/docs) on crypto technology (as an example above). > * Tokenomics > * Supply of seven billion, a valuation of two billion. [Inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pkks3v/algorand_a_3900_increase_and_a_3_profit/) used to be insanely high, which I had made a post on that was deleted but explained that at the time Algorand had a 3900% increase in valuation, but a 3% price change. Luckily inflation has been slowed down a lot since vesting ended. Infact, 7 of the 10 billion algo's that will ever be minted and released have already been, which to some is a bad figure, but I'm just glad we won't go back to algorand's old inflation numbers. > > # The Pros > > * Fees > * The fees for Algorand are low ([0.001 Algo](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20concept%20of,1%2C000%20microAlgos%20or%200.001%20Algos)) I know a lot of people aren't having issues with $1 gas fees on Ethereum and such, But if you were there in 2020, 2021. You know just how important low transaction fees are, for example: > * Low fees allow most people to use the defi ecosystem. With Ethereum, a lot of people were simply priced out of DEFI, or so scared of messing something up, cause every transaction was $20, $30, gone. > * Pera Wallet > * Pera Wallet is a nice simple wallet for most algorand users, it's made to be user-friendly, and was made by [HIPO and Algorand](https://blog.perawallet.app/its-official-algorand-wallet-is-now-pera-wallet-171561597664) themselves. You can also swap ASA's in the wallet itself. > * Blockchain Trilemma > * Scalability, decentralization, and security. Coined by Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum... Every good cryptocurrency has selected two of the three options above but cannot have all three. One of [Algorand's main goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM24Vn8RJeo) is to disprove this and be the solution > * Decentralization > * [Governance](https://governance.algorand.foundation/governance-period-6) has been out for a while, Governance incentivizes people to hold their Algo, Firstly, you get Algo for committing your Algo to governance and voting on proposals, but if you move your Algo out of your governance wallet OR do not vote, you lose the governance benefits. > * The Algorand community has slowly been increasing the amount of Algo committed for each governance period, from 1.7B to currently 4B, showing commitment to the ecosystem. > * Algorand has a few types of nodes that keep the network running. Relay nodes do not participate in consensus but keep the network running in the background. There's about [120 relay nodes](https://www.algorand.foundation/general-faq#:~:text=How%20many%20relay%20nodes%20are,nodes%20on%20the%20Algorand%20network) running, a lot owned by Algorand. Participation nodes help keep the network running too and are included in governance and consensus voting. There are about 1500 participation nodes, some run participation nodes when running an algorand project, but in all, not too many run a node because of the lack of a large financial incentive, this really does go to show though even with a lack of a large financial compensation, algorand still has 1500 nodes. > * **DEFI** > * ASA's > * [Algorand Standard assets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkQO5dfOOE&t=1110s). ASA's are just simple ways to deploy tokens, NFTs, and other things on the Algorand network. A lot of people say they act similarly to ERC-20 tokens on the Ethereum network. > * Programming > * Algorand "makes it simple to program on its blockchain"... "With Java, JavaScript (node.js and browser), Go, and Python SDKs, along with REST APIs, you can build on Algorand in your preferred programming languages." [src](https://www.algorand.com/hack) This makes it obviously really simple to build DAPPS on Algo, with the help of ASA's AND the help of subsidization from the Algorand Foundation, Defi will be doing well! ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

Isaac_shill

By holding PRAI tokens, Receive a monthly distribution of 75% of AI-generated profits. This isn’t just an investment, it’s a community-driven passive income stream. Join our presale:https://presale.profitrocket.ai/user/contribute Telegram:https://t.me/ProfitRocketAI #PRAI #AI #DEFI

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by FrogsAreBest123. > # Algorand > > * Disclaimers: > * This post is heavily inspired and sometimes copied word for word from my old post about algo. seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttc/comment/hh6z73n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). > * I do own Algorand and act as a governor. Algorand represents under 10% of my total portfolio. > * **Background Information for people who have no idea what Algorand is** > * Feel free to skip this if you know the basics of Algo. > * Algorand has been built off of three institutions, AlgoCapital, Algorand Foundation, and Algorand Inc. > * AlgoCapital has rebranded to [Borderless Capital](https://www.borderlesscapital.io/), but regardless, they're an asset trading corporation, they also build financial products to support Algorand and its ecosystem. > * The [Algorand Foundation](https://www.algorand.foundation/) distributes the token "Algo" > * [Algorand Inc.](https://www.algorand.com/futurefi/) does the R&D for Algorand. Of which, Algorand Inc owns a few [patents](https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/16709719/ifw/docs) on crypto technology (as an example above). > * Tokenomics > * Supply of seven billion, a valuation of two billion. [Inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pkks3v/algorand_a_3900_increase_and_a_3_profit/) used to be insanely high, which I had made a post on that was deleted but explained that at the time Algorand had a 3900% increase in valuation, but a 3% price change. Luckily inflation has been slowed down a lot since vesting ended. Infact, 7 of the 10 billion algo's that will ever be minted and released have already been, which to some is a bad figure, but I'm just glad we won't go back to algorand's old inflation numbers. > > # The Pros > > * Fees > * The fees for Algorand are low ([0.001 Algo](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20concept%20of,1%2C000%20microAlgos%20or%200.001%20Algos)) I know a lot of people aren't having issues with $1 gas fees on Ethereum and such, But if you were there in 2020, 2021. You know just how important low transaction fees are, for example: > * Low fees allow most people to use the defi ecosystem. With Ethereum, a lot of people were simply priced out of DEFI, or so scared of messing something up, cause every transaction was $20, $30, gone. > * Pera Wallet > * Pera Wallet is a nice simple wallet for most algorand users, it's made to be user-friendly, and was made by [HIPO and Algorand](https://blog.perawallet.app/its-official-algorand-wallet-is-now-pera-wallet-171561597664) themselves. You can also swap ASA's in the wallet itself. > * Blockchain Trilemma > * Scalability, decentralization, and security. Coined by Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum... Every good cryptocurrency has selected two of the three options above but cannot have all three. One of [Algorand's main goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM24Vn8RJeo) is to disprove this and be the solution > * Decentralization > * [Governance](https://governance.algorand.foundation/governance-period-6) has been out for a while, Governance incentivizes people to hold their Algo, Firstly, you get Algo for committing your Algo to governance and voting on proposals, but if you move your Algo out of your governance wallet OR do not vote, you lose the governance benefits. > * The Algorand community has slowly been increasing the amount of Algo committed for each governance period, from 1.7B to currently 4B, showing commitment to the ecosystem. > * Algorand has a few types of nodes that keep the network running. Relay nodes do not participate in consensus but keep the network running in the background. There's about [120 relay nodes](https://www.algorand.foundation/general-faq#:~:text=How%20many%20relay%20nodes%20are,nodes%20on%20the%20Algorand%20network) running, a lot owned by Algorand. Participation nodes help keep the network running too and are included in governance and consensus voting. There are about 1500 participation nodes, some run participation nodes when running an algorand project, but in all, not too many run a node because of the lack of a large financial incentive, this really does go to show though even with a lack of a large financial compensation, algorand still has 1500 nodes. > * **DEFI** > * ASA's > * [Algorand Standard assets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkQO5dfOOE&t=1110s). ASA's are just simple ways to deploy tokens, NFTs, and other things on the Algorand network. A lot of people say they act similarly to ERC-20 tokens on the Ethereum network. > * Programming > * Algorand "makes it simple to program on its blockchain"... "With Java, JavaScript (node.js and browser), Go, and Python SDKs, along with REST APIs, you can build on Algorand in your preferred programming languages." [src](https://www.algorand.com/hack) This makes it obviously really simple to build DAPPS on Algo, with the help of ASA's AND the help of subsidization from the Algorand Foundation, Defi will be doing well! ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

Loose_Screw_

Firstly I don't know what world you're living in if you think "dubious basic income ideas and cryptocurrency as a form of investment" are causing youth unemployment and longer time living with parents. Stagnation of real wages and skyrocketing price of hard assets is doing that. On top of that traditional youth jobs and careers are drying up and jobs are paying worse as corporations become larger and more powerful, pushing down wages further. Young people are seeing hard work doesn't pay anymore and are refusing to work. That's nothing to do with crypto. You have some misconceptions about the state pension (I'm not sure which country you're from, but it sounds like a relatively socialist one). State pension is unlikely to provide you with any sort of quality of life which is why almost all white collar jobs offer private, investment-based pensions (IRAs and SIPPs for US and UK respectively). The modern economic model is to try and force citizens to take a stake in the economy (i.e. the stock market/debt markets) and live off the returns in retirement. Your ideas about tax and crypto are at least 5 years out of date. Most people who invest in crypto seriously are actively thinking about taxes, probably even more than an average investor/citizen. Particularly the big cryptos (BTC, ETH, maybe some other blue chips) have been mostly integrated with the traditional finance system at this point and even crypto-native CEXs are providing transaction logs to IRS/HMRC. Don't imagine you're going to be able to escape using DEFI either - govt on-chain analysis is coming eventually. I don't know why you relate crypto to the concept of basic income throughout your post. Due to its pseudoanonymous nature, crypto is uniquely vulnerable to sybil attacks and therefore an awful vehicle to use for a basic income system, at least without being tightly integrated with some kind of identity confirmation system (which for all intents and purposes doesn't exist yet in the crypto space). Your post reads like someone who just discovered crypto and had some shower thoughts about it before posting here and that's why people are making fun of you and downvoting you.

MaximumStudent1839

> First of all, Coinbase will only cover L2 fees for verified users using their specific wallet.  Source? > Wallet usage has taken off and people spend more time on the wallet vs. the exchange. Wallets don't earn them revenue, unless they take a cut on staking rewards, like Exodus, or they make an extra taker fee for a built-in swap function. When ETH's APR is just 2%, how much do you think they will get compensated for losing on L2 gas fees? Not credible. Why would I want to use it if their swap fees are higher? I could swap on another wallet and take advantage of Coinbase subsidy. It is a loophole for them to bleed revenue. > Coinbase will care a lot more about future guidance / usage than millions in revenue today. If they have done the research and seen that 5Y+ from now, the DEFI wallet is where everybody does everything for crypto, they need to be there. A lot of talk but you said nothing credible about how they can monetize from this to offset their lost revenue from fees.

chuck_portis

Couple of things here... First of all, Coinbase will only cover L2 fees for verified users using their specific wallet. That will only be a subset of transactions on the chain. Their company is valued at $60B+. Other exchanges are also pushing their wallets (Binance, OKX, etc.). Exchanges want their wallets to replace Metamask. They see the future. Your DEFI wallet is important software that they want to provide. It lets them offer services directly through the wallet, versus having to visit the exchange. Wallet usage has taken off and people spend more time on the wallet vs. the exchange. Coinbase will care a lot more about future guidance / usage than millions in revenue today. If they have done the research and seen that 5Y+ from now, the DEFI wallet is where everybody does everything for crypto, they need to be there.

Ghostserpent

Market share and narrative. STX has ALL of the market share for Bitcoin DEFI solutions, and I see the narrative shifting from alts to Bitcoin, which would lead to everything being built on Bitcoin. (Just a narrative, doesn’t mean it will happen) An example of market share would be dog coins. Currently you have like 5 dog coins in the top 100, and now they have to share all of that market for meme coins. STX on the other hand has no competition, it is alone in bitcoin defi.

direktor4eto_reborn

Is no one using any DEFI options? There is absolutely no way I'd trust my BTC to a certain business, but I guess I'd trust a small sum to a smart contract for some stablecoin, which in turn I'd exchange for USD. I haven't done it though. Thoughts?

ActualSherbert8050

Only Floki is capable of making a case for this with its DEFI options

ResonanceCascade1998

For real though while there are bots most of the spam shills I've seen are by real people who just spam them between moonshot subs. There's risk but I recommend taking a look and seeing if it's for you, if not BTC has been a reliable gainer like always. Some good alts out there if DEFI ever gets more traction among some others things. Best of luck to you man, if you have any questions I'll do my best to answer honestly. If anything doesn't check out just call me out for it or if you have an argument against it I'd honestly love to hear it.

coojw

The ability to do it exists now, it will be some time (months to years) before traditional finance catches up to provide the service. But there are already institutional companies providing this service that are popping up. Personally, I prefer to use the already existing smart contract route from DEFI

uncapchad

If there is no data to research then it's a gamble. Knowing the madness and whimsy of DEFI, something called LDRr is already ringing alarm bells!

-Blue_Bull-

A lot of us are traders, we have no choice but to use exchanges. DEFI is just too expensive for scalping.

CointestMod

#Algorand Pro-Arguments Below is a Algorand pro-argument written by FrogsAreBest123. > # Algorand > > * Disclaimers: > * This post is heavily inspired and sometimes copied word for word from my old post about algo. seen [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttc/comment/hh6z73n/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). > * I do own Algorand and act as a governor. Algorand represents under 10% of my total portfolio. > * **Background Information for people who have no idea what Algorand is** > * Feel free to skip this if you know the basics of Algo. > * Algorand has been built off of three institutions, AlgoCapital, Algorand Foundation, and Algorand Inc. > * AlgoCapital has rebranded to [Borderless Capital](https://www.borderlesscapital.io/), but regardless, they're an asset trading corporation, they also build financial products to support Algorand and its ecosystem. > * The [Algorand Foundation](https://www.algorand.foundation/) distributes the token "Algo" > * [Algorand Inc.](https://www.algorand.com/futurefi/) does the R&D for Algorand. Of which, Algorand Inc owns a few [patents](https://patentcenter.uspto.gov/applications/16709719/ifw/docs) on crypto technology (as an example above). > * Tokenomics > * Supply of seven billion, a valuation of two billion. [Inflation](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pkks3v/algorand_a_3900_increase_and_a_3_profit/) used to be insanely high, which I had made a post on that was deleted but explained that at the time Algorand had a 3900% increase in valuation, but a 3% price change. Luckily inflation has been slowed down a lot since vesting ended. Infact, 7 of the 10 billion algo's that will ever be minted and released have already been, which to some is a bad figure, but I'm just glad we won't go back to algorand's old inflation numbers. > > # The Pros > > * Fees > * The fees for Algorand are low ([0.001 Algo](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/get-started/basics/why_algorand/#:~:text=There%20is%20no%20concept%20of,1%2C000%20microAlgos%20or%200.001%20Algos)) I know a lot of people aren't having issues with $1 gas fees on Ethereum and such, But if you were there in 2020, 2021. You know just how important low transaction fees are, for example: > * Low fees allow most people to use the defi ecosystem. With Ethereum, a lot of people were simply priced out of DEFI, or so scared of messing something up, cause every transaction was $20, $30, gone. > * Pera Wallet > * Pera Wallet is a nice simple wallet for most algorand users, it's made to be user-friendly, and was made by [HIPO and Algorand](https://blog.perawallet.app/its-official-algorand-wallet-is-now-pera-wallet-171561597664) themselves. You can also swap ASA's in the wallet itself. > * Blockchain Trilemma > * Scalability, decentralization, and security. Coined by Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum... Every good cryptocurrency has selected two of the three options above but cannot have all three. One of [Algorand's main goals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM24Vn8RJeo) is to disprove this and be the solution > * Decentralization > * [Governance](https://governance.algorand.foundation/governance-period-6) has been out for a while, Governance incentivizes people to hold their Algo, Firstly, you get Algo for committing your Algo to governance and voting on proposals, but if you move your Algo out of your governance wallet OR do not vote, you lose the governance benefits. > * The Algorand community has slowly been increasing the amount of Algo committed for each governance period, from 1.7B to currently 4B, showing commitment to the ecosystem. > * Algorand has a few types of nodes that keep the network running. Relay nodes do not participate in consensus but keep the network running in the background. There's about [120 relay nodes](https://www.algorand.foundation/general-faq#:~:text=How%20many%20relay%20nodes%20are,nodes%20on%20the%20Algorand%20network) running, a lot owned by Algorand. Participation nodes help keep the network running too and are included in governance and consensus voting. There are about 1500 participation nodes, some run participation nodes when running an algorand project, but in all, not too many run a node because of the lack of a large financial incentive, this really does go to show though even with a lack of a large financial compensation, algorand still has 1500 nodes. > * **DEFI** > * ASA's > * [Algorand Standard assets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkQO5dfOOE&t=1110s). ASA's are just simple ways to deploy tokens, NFTs, and other things on the Algorand network. A lot of people say they act similarly to ERC-20 tokens on the Ethereum network. > * Programming > * Algorand "makes it simple to program on its blockchain"... "With Java, JavaScript (node.js and browser), Go, and Python SDKs, along with REST APIs, you can build on Algorand in your preferred programming languages." [src](https://www.algorand.com/hack) This makes it obviously really simple to build DAPPS on Algo, with the help of ASA's AND the help of subsidization from the Algorand Foundation, Defi will be doing well! ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Algorand) to find submissions for other topics.

biba8163

> lot of TVL I've been saying this for many years. It's a scam metric - DEFI gang earning high APY on cuckswap, rugpullswap, etc by providing liquidty and yield farming worthless tokens which have no utility but to make the founders rich - Muh, look at the Total Value Locked (TVL) on my shitcoin platform on yield farming rugpull tokens and staking to stabilize the prices while the founders dump tokens on "investors"....oh no, TVL dropped -95% since most of the value locked was scam pumped tokens https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/11f3yr4/lawyer_for_blockchain_association_whines_on/jam3wqx/

Frogeyedpeas

its DEFI. what you want is not necessarily what you will get.

Yougetwhat

No. L2 are arriving on BTC. BTC will eat ETH market shares in DEFI. RIP

AfroCharm

You can always invest in coins in hot narratives, that are actually building interesting tech. Crypto gaming, AI, DePin, RWA(Real World Assets), BTC DEFI are all narratives that have proven to have the hype. You’ll be investing in projects that actually have a product, revenue, and some intrinsic value.

uncapchad

Well that's the point of DEFI. No framework to decide what does/not get listed for trade. People freely donate their money to these listings because they need to believe they are going to get equal or better value in return and are not troubled by a lot of admin. You don't even have to prove you're over 18 to play. It's just a matter of time for regulators to swivel their eyes to DEFI, so best they come up with a solution before governments force one on them.

Crypto-4-Freedom

I started out following different subs, like ethtrader, cc , defi, etc just read into posts/tutorials/discussions, ask questions(like you are doing right now) Im reading as well books about crypto, stuff like : the Bitcoin standard, DeFi and the future of finance(i recommend this book!), DEFI after Bitcoin & Ethereum, etc. If you search on youtube, avoid the shillers, only watch the video's that explain what a protocol does. If you start out in DeFi revoke.cash and defillama are your best friends, and i would recommend to use RabyWallet instead of MetaMask.

coojw

You don't need to sell btc. Hold it forever. (But, but, how do you get your value out of it) Glad you asked. BTC is money. And its the Alpha asset. From a theoretic standpoint, you never want to sell the best asset on earth. Ever, you hold it and it keeps bringing you value. From a functional standpoint, you can use your btc like ceo's use stocks to extract value. You leverage small amounts of it as you build your wealth and you live off of that. You should shoot for 5% to 15% leverage of your stack to support your lifestyle. Look at how much it costs for you to live. Is it $100K per year? What 5%, 10%, or 15% of what number equals $100K? 2Mil for 5% / 1M for 10% / 666k for 15%. So if you use bitcoin as a savings, it will grow over the long term both as you add to it and as it appreciates. What you put in there will grow substantially by the end of this bull cycle, and by the end of next bull cycle 4 years from now, it will be much more. By that time, traditional finance will likely have the tools in place to allow leverage against your BTC, and you can start employing your strategy. If you are a degen, DEFI already has borrowing against your BTC available via smart contracts. This strategy is what CEO's and the wealth use to leverage their assets but never sell them. This topic is covered at length in many places, you can look it up by searching "Buy, borrow, die" strategy. Or watch this clip of Michael Saylor talking about it: [https://youtu.be/QXh\_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373](https://youtu.be/QXh_8uZQ-gA?si=nR5olDl1zNdv8s0s&t=373)

Odd-Helicopter2201

but the base value of each token is based off solana " solana can be based of USDC, USDT etc.. solana is DEFI the shitcoins are clandestin entities accessing the system in an unfavorable way.

kilo6ronen

Did they miss the decentralized part of the word DEFI.. good luck US government 😂 Pandora’s box has been opened

coojw

We are accustomed to human intermediaries. Whether that be banks, or other financial institutions that lend money to the populous for profit. Humans have biases, emotions which encompass, greed and fear and other motivations. As result, third parties can never be truly trusted. DEFI solves this by making use of smart contracts which are basically algorithms that make all the decisions and do all the work/logistics in the transaction. These algorithms are public and verifiable so everyone is able to see what it does before interacting with it. In this way, users can be sure that no malicious code is at work. This enables the users to put up collateral and take out loan without the need for kyc verifications, credit score verifications, applications and so on. All that is required is that you have the capital to deposit into the smart contract. Once it is deposited, you can withdraw your loan instantly. If the DEFI platform says that it will loan you money against your assets at a 75% loan to value, then if you deposit $100,000 worth of bitcoin, then you can withdraw to $75,000 worth of loaned funds. It’s just important to understand that if you go over your 75% loan to value, you will be liquidated and lose money to pay back the loan automatically. Remember, this is all done by computer code, and there’s no one to plead with to give you a chance. These types of loans can stay open indefinitely as long as you do not exceed the loan to value ratio. In a realistic example, let’s say you put in $100,000 worth of bitcoin and you take out a $15,000 loan against your bitcoin. You would receive $15,000 and stable coins would you then do whatever you need to with it. $15,000 loan = .2354 btc in today’s bitcoin value. Let’s say you wanted to pay back to $15,000 in one month. If bitcoin goes down by 50%, you still owe $15k worth of btc at the current market price. In this case you would need to use .4708 btc to cover your loan while the market is 50% down. The reverse is also true. If btc goes up in value, it takes less btc to = the $25k repayment. With that in mind, this is what the wealthy do… They borrow against an appreciating asset, in our example… bitcoin. They may borrow 5% of 10, million for example, which is $500k. In order to be liquidated, bitcoin would have to drop 95% in value, which is highly unlikely. But on the opposite side when bitcoin goes up and value, it takes less bitcoin to repay the loan. So instead of having to use 7.85 bitcoin to repay the loan at the start of the process, when bitcoin goes up in value 100%, it will only take 3.92 bitcoin to repay the 500K loan. When you take this principal and extrapolate it out over the next 10 to 15 years, as the US dollar continues to get debased by monetary printing, bitcoin will continue to go up in value against it. To learn more about this type of thing, you can do a search on YouTube for the term “buy, borrow, die”. This is a very common strategy for the rich because it requires that you have an asset that you can borrow against. Most of them use stocks for this, but bitcoin is the new player in the game.

coojw

It can be done with smart contracts within DEFI currently. In the future, banks in traditional finance will provide this service, and banks will be regulated when they provide the service. Using Defi to borrow against your tokens is easy, permissionless, has transparency, and no 3rd parties can manipulate the smart contract, as the contents of the smart contract is publicly visible and verifiable.

CointestMod

#Nano Pro-Arguments Below is a Nano pro-argument written by Dwarfdeaths. > Copied from my post on the previous cointest thread: > > To start things off, I will take for granted that Nano is the best at simply being a digital currency. There is no other protocol that I’m aware of which matches the speedy, feeless, eco-friendly, and highly scalable properties of Nano for peer to peer payment. Its asynchronous mode of operation allows it to scale continuously as hardware and bandwidth improves over time. Its consensus protocol has so far proven secure and non-centralizing. The only flaw actually demonstrated in real life has been spam resistance, for which steps have been/are being taken to mitigate. When asked to envision a globally adopted cryptocurrency, Nano presents a clear solution. At the end of the post I will address some common arguments against Nano being good at digital cash, but otherwise I will move on to my main point. > > In the current landscape of crypto technologies, Nano’s functionality as *merely* digital cash can sound underwhelming. When confronted with the choice between a protocol that does digital money and a protocol that can potentially do “everything,” it’s easy to dismiss the money use case. On the contrary, I think being a good digital cash is absolutely critical and perhaps the only thing that matters long term. I have two main parts to my argument: First, most proposed uses for crypto are bad, and second, Nano isn’t incompatible with the good uses, and in fact is necessary for them to work. Before continuing I’ll note that Nano’s use case is not earth-shattering. For the average person in a modern country with the convenience of credit cards, it will make a pretty minor difference in their lives. For myself, it would have (a) saved me from paying an international wire fee while registering for a conference recently, and (b) would save the 3% credit card processing fee I paid at the DMV, as well as for all the businesses that normally foot this bill (which will probably be the main driver for adoption if it happens). Other things, like preventing the monopolistic control of payment processing (see OnlyFans) are also worth considering, and is one of the original motivations for bitcoin, but are less tangible. For countries without a stable currency it becomes a bit more serious as you're also inheriting a more usable currency than what your government can provide. So I think crypto has a chance to make marginal improvements over our existing system, and thus should be promoted, but isn't an earth-shattering breakthrough. > > Anyway. The first part of the argument is probably unpopular so let’s get it over with. **Most proposed use-cases of crypto(currencies) are bad.** This stems from the fact that a completely trustless, decentralized system can only agree on virtual information, such as opinions. Anything coming from the real world is subject to the “garbage in, garbage out” principle (also known as the oracle problem), or from enforcing anything that the ledger says on the real world. Money is one of the few things that is truly virtual (though, the exchange of goods is not!). In Nano, a transaction could be considered two people expressing the opinion that one should pay the other, and it is backed by their cryptographic signatures. Publishing and signing documents was one of the other earlier use cases for blockchains, and is essentially expressing your opinion that you agree with/to the document. A use-case like logistics or insurance or betting requires input from the real world. A block-chain can gather people’s opinions on whether some aspect of reality is true, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true, which means you have to trust people to accurately represent reality. So, not trustless. And if it’s not trustless, why did you bother making it a crypto app? When you boil it down, 'crypto' can only every let you add the properties of (decentralized, trustless, permissionless) to something that was already possible with software. If that doesn't add any benefit, either because those properties weren't needed or because there is a practical reason that those properties can't be attained, then the proposed use case is ultimately doomed. Let me quickly go through a list of the most commonly cited applications I’m aware of and why they are bad: > > - **Stablecoins** – irrelevant once a global cryptocurrency is adopted. > - **Lending** – definitely worthwhile if it could be done, but AFAIK you can never do **trustless, uncollateralized loans**, which almost entirely defeats the purpose. If your collateral is another ostensibly fungible currency, then there was no need for the loan. Loans in the typical sense will always be trusting and personally identifiable for the foreseeable future. > - **Yield farming, liquidity mining** - Zero sum nonsense. > - **Insurance** - garbage in garbage out. Sure you can write a contract that will handle your insurance plan, but you need an authority to establish what actually happened in the real world. Who is going to verify that your car got dented in a hit and run, or that your water damage bills are accurate, or that a dude actually died? > - **Logistics** - garbage in garbage out. Blockchain doesn't prevent some guy in the supply chain from tampering with or misreporting a shipment. If something goes wrong, you are still going to have to investigate and track down exactly what happened in the real world for any resolution. > - **Crowdfunding** - An actually useful concept, but governance is tricky because it must all be based on the opinions of the network participants. Who is the arbiter of the deliverables? Did the fundee actually make the thing they said they would? Can the crowd just stiff the fundee even if they delivered? I think this problem may be solvable on average, but not universally. As is often the case, this decentralized application need not itself be currency. > > - **Decentralized exchanges** - Largely irrelevant if a true global currency like Nano is adopted. These could be useful for exchanging between the fast P2P coin and a privacy coin like Monero, but that’s about it. See part two below for more clarification. There’s again no reason to make the DEX a currency itself. > > It may sound implausible that a platform like Ethereum can have so much traffic and have little to no real utility, but I think this is a byproduct of the influx of speculative money into the system. Most of the traffic is either speculation or speculation services. Much like a roulette wheel is a legitimate service to facilitate gambling, most of these smart contract functionalities are services that facilitate moving money around in increasingly obscure and ultimately useless ways. While roulette wheels will certainly never go away, I wouldn't expect them to gain global usage either. > > Now for the second part of the argument. Any cryptocurrency that can’t natively scale to **global, day-to-day, coffee-buying** adoption is not a good cryptocurrency. As stated above, one of the main motivations for cryptocurrencies existing is that they are trustless, permissionless, and censorship resistant. If you need to go to an exchange to turn your cryptocurrency into a spendable currency, you are now trusting the exchange, you are requiring permission from the exchange, and the exchange can censor your wishes to buy whatever it is you wanted to buy. You can shuffle between as many neat cryptos on a DEX as you want, but ultimately if you want to buy a coffee you either need a crpyto that can scale to coffee buying or you need a fiat exchange that breaks crypto properties. Nano is the coffee buying crypto. Bitcoin’s store of value argument is destroyed by the necessity of exchanges. A true store of value can be spent at any time, on anything, without fees or the need to interact with any third party. (Note: lightning network sacrifices crypto properties, so I’m ignoring it as a cryptocurrency. People are free to treat it like a cryptocurrency, but it’s not.) > > For the few useful decentralized applications that might exist, they can almost certainly be made to work with Nano as their settlement layer, if they need a settlement layer at all. (BitTorrent is a DApp that existed well before cryptocurrency...) Smart contracts can look at the Nano chain for proof that a payment has been made, and can execute payments on the Nano network. There’s no need to have a platform where transaction and execution of arbitrary programs are competing for the same computing resources, and it creates a harmful economic pressure on transacting that will eventually create pain points when the network is inevitably pushed to its throughput limits. The decision against smart contracts in Nano is a conscious one. > > So, putting these things together, I think the vast majority of crypto coins are a bad idea, incorporating DEFI functionality is adding little or no value, and that above all the use case that will fundamentally matter is still performance as digital cash. Any secondary applications will need this core functionality/adoption as the starting point, and none of the other existing protocols do it as well as Nano. > > In the reply below I will address a few common arguments against Nano working as digital cash. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Nano) to find submissions for other topics.

hdrive1335

It would probably take an overwhelming amount of man hours to compile a list of all your transactions that would pass the 'without-a-doubt' requirement to charge you... at this time. I have no doubt in the next couple years AI/ML will easily be able to do it though. I wouldn't lean on anonymity in DEFI when used 'regularly.'

uncapchad

Proof of mistake. It's very difficult to shoe-horn in PoS from PoW. Not all dreams will be realised. Kow-tow to green mania at your peril. AI, banks, Google et al, consume more electricity than PoWs which irrationally became a stick to beat all cryptocurrencies with. It was a gargantuan undertaking for Ethereum. It required a lot of faith and prolonged lock-up for investors which lead to the wrapping of things. L2s took that gap with the lock-up period. SOL stormed head. Wee beasties wearing hats could generate income faster than any staking. DEFI made transactions simple for anyone who knew how to add an extension to a browser. ETH became an expensive pain-in-the-middle. This leaves Ethereum in limbo. ETH as PoS has a much lower value-proposition from when they started out on their PoS journey. Who knew the market would move so fast? Back in the day, ETH was the main (some say only) contender for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is great as a settlement layer but not great for day-to-day transactions. ETH appealed to corporates. In fact corporates invested in ETH to get smart-contracts and other nuances better suited to inter- and intra-business transactions. L2s and other chains came along and sucked up the void whilst ETH was re-architecting and locking up. Projections back then could not predict the DEFI explosion we see now. The market right now isn't interested in a better blockchain, just a more lucrative one. Whether those same corporates are still keen to keep PoS ETH going is a tenuous thing.

bogycoins

DEFI

KiritimatiSwan

This is a good thing. All you can do is position yourself. If you’re currently a DEFI lord, then you’re smart enough to see the receding water prior to the regulation tsunami.

uncapchad

Fincen. This is for all those services offering on/off-ramp with fiat. Buy with credit card that sort of thing. The clampdown on DEFI is well under way. In the UK banks already auto-block any transaction you try with an unregulated processor.

ActualSherbert8050

Floki's DEFI is larger than all of the competing dog coins put together.

ElDiabloRamon

Bitcoin ETF ticker names: ……………….. BTC - Bitcoin AKRB - Ark invest 21shares Bitcoin ETF BITB - Bitwise Bitcoin Trust ETF FBTC - Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin ETF FDIG - Fidelity Crypto Industry Digital Payments ETF GBTC - Greyscale Bitcoin Trust ETF IBIT - Blackrock iShares Bitcoin Trust ETF HODL - Vaneck Bitcoin Trust ETF BTCW - WisdomTree Bitcoin Trust ETF EZBC - Franklin Bitcoin ETF BRRR - valkyre Bitcoin Trust ETF DEFI - Hashdex Bitcoin Futures ETF BTCO - InvestCo Galaxy Bitcoin ETF

Johan544

Being so worried about it and freaking out to make sure every little transaction you make is properly reported and the amount in taxes is exactly what it should be is the height of foolishness. The IRS will not have time to go through every single one of your CEX or DEFI transactions to see if you messed up somewhere along the line. They'll see how much you bought of crypto with fiat, how much you cashed out, and calculate how much you owe based on those numbers. You're all cowards who shit themselves at the mere thought of getting an IRS phone call/e-mail and it shows. No wonder you're all terrible traders. Yes, try to get a rough estimate of how much you owe in taxes and pay it, but don't lose sleep over it. There are literally millions of people in our shoes right now, and the IRS does not have the wherewithal to investigate all of their transactions.

pantufa71

In my opinion the time to do that already passed. You had to think about loans when no one wanted Bitcoin. You can use DEFI to make loans with your Bitcoin was a colateral. Lend BTC borrow USDC and buy more BTC but be careful and DYOR.

Substantial_Bear5153

Also, to expand a litte bit more specifically to your questions: Treat all smart contracts as malicious. For most of them source is not even available. Trust only widely used DEX swap router contracts such as Uniswap. When you sign an approval for eg Uniswap, you store into eg the USDT contract the amount that Uniswap can move from your balance. This can be finite (has to be renewed), or infinite. Allowance approved for a malicious contract can be revoked using revoke.cash; be careful of fakes of this site. It is considered good wallet hygiene to revoke unused DEFI contract approvalls. There is a super dangerous type of message that you can sign which can act as a blank check for further signing anything. Your browser wallet extension (I recommend Rabby) will warn you about this. If signed, the account must is permanently compromised.

The_Basic_Shapes

>The top DEFI creator just bailed I had not heard this, can you elaborate? Google isn't showing me anything

GoodHands325

Last bull run we had DEFI summer, wouldn’t surprise me if we had a “summer of meme coins” (or something along those lines) this time around. Love them or hate them, I think they will be a driving narrative and bring more retail back in

Kingpander

You are wrong. It is consiered transferring crypto to yourself not selling crypto. As per this source you provided they consider the sale of one crypto like btc to fiat and then fiat to eth. If you do an atomic swap of btc to eth it is not “selling” as per the definition. From the coinbase blog post you shared: “Converting one crypto to another: When you use bitcoin to buy ether, for example, you technically have to sell your bitcoin before you buy a new asset. Because this is a sale, the IRS considers it taxable. You’ll owe taxes if you sold your bitcoin for more than you paid for it.” You will owe tax if you use a CEX like coinbase to trade, since you are buying and selling when ‘converting‘ your cryptos. But you will not if you use a DEX with true atomic swap, as there is no “sale” occurring. There is also no way of knowing the parties involved, or what jurisdiction they are in. By the spirit of the law of taxation it is on income (which doesn’t apply to this example) or on capital gains. Currently the only measure of capital gains occur when you offramp or sell to fiat. Good luck to the SEC in trying to regulate and control DEFI. The only possible way is by going after the doxxed developers of the tools we use in the space, which they realize and is exactly what they are now doing. But to regulate and control all of DEFI is truly a fool’s errand. Never going to happen.

Kingpander

You are wrong. It is considered transferring crypto to yourself not selling crypto. As per this source you provided they consider the sale of one crypto like btc to fiat and then fiat to eth. If you do an atomic swap of btc to eth it is not “selling” as per the definition. Good luck to you my fren. I have been in crypto for years and have filed accurately for years and by the spirit of the law of taxation it is on capital gains and currently the only measure of capital gains occur when you offramp or sell to fiat. Also good luck to the SEC in trying to regulate and control DEFI, never going to happen.

Kingpander

No logic to that. Fiat currency conversions (ie usd to gbp) are not taxable events, so no clue why you would assume these are. Also there’s no way to enforce or regulate DEFI. It’s a fools errand.