MEV

7862518362916371936

>> Do you really think calling people 'mETH heads' and DeFi a 'shitcoin casino' makes you sound smarter or somehow strengthens your argument? >The DeFi shitcoin narrative has resulted in EVERY single investor falling for the meme losing money on DeFi shitcoins of which EVERY single one is at a loss from 4 years ago. Someone needs to talk common sense instead of /r/cc circlejerking itself to DeFi off a cliff >> stablecoins >Stablecoins are crypto's killer use case and besides BTC, the only other asset that is growing long term. These networks are just rails and not investments >> lending >overcollaterlized loans using volatile crypto as leverage to gamble on shitcoins. Nobody is getting a loan for a car, a mortgage, etc with the DeFi meme >> tokenization >97% just stablecoins. Some niche case pilots for treasuries but shilled to death as RWA are the future and leading people to huge losses >> Billions in real-world value flow through Ethereum daily, enabling financial tools without banks, borders, or gatekeepers. >Besides value moved around in trading as with all cryptos, again rails for stablecoins. Doesn't mean ETH is an investment or has to go up in value. Tron dominates developing countries btw. And it doesn't mean this shitcoin tokens that are being shilled will go up in value. >> Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains >https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/ Okay so it feels like you’re making up arguments and then answering them yourself, weird but ok. This conversation is not about token prices or investments so I'm not sure what you're trying to do here, I'm not having another "my crypto is better than yours situation". Calling DeFi a “shitcoin casino” or Ethereum a “pure investment vehicle” completely misses the point. We started with “Ethereum is dead,” yet it powers a multibillion dollar DeFi world: stablecoin rails, tokenized assets, permissionless lending ecc... That's not a meme coin casino. Stablecoins as investments? That is like calling roads investments instead of infrastructure. Ethereum is a utility platform powering real economic activity, if you're only after price what's the point to even discuss anything.

biba8163

> Do you really think calling people 'mETH heads' and DeFi a 'shitcoin casino' makes you sound smarter or somehow strengthens your argument? The DeFi shitcoin narrative has resulted in EVERY single investor falling for meme losing money on DeFi shitcoins of which EVERY single one is at a loss from 4 years ago. Someone needs to talk common sense instead of /r/cc circlejerking itself to DeFi off a cliff > stablecoins Stablecoins are crypto's killer use case and besides BTC, the only other asset that is growing long term. These networks are just rails and not investments > lending overcollaterlized loans using volatile crypto as leverage to gamble on shitcoins. Nobody is getting a loan for a car, a mortgage, etc with the DeFi meme > tokenization 97% just stablecoins. Some niche case pilots for treasuries but shilled to death as RWA are the future and leading people to huge losses > Billions in real-world value flow through Ethereum daily, enabling financial tools without banks, borders, or gatekeepers. Besides value moved around in trading as with all cryptos, again rails for stablecoins. Doesn't mean ETH is an investment or has to go up in value. Tron dominates developing countries btw. And it doesn't mean this shitcoin tokens that are being shilled will go up in value. > Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/

biba8163

> Can bitcoin natively handle Stablecoins As I have explained to mETH Heads, Bitcoin is not competing with Shitcoin Networks. If you still don't get this, you will continue losing money or at best it'll be a massive opportunity cost long term > ETHs value appreciation comes not from utility but like all Alts from capital and liquidity brought by BTC -- see point 1. Also, **in order to compete with other chains, Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains.** BTC on the other hand has no competition. It doesn't have to scale, it doesn't have to become cheap, it doesn't have to keep advancing, it doesn't have to keep up with the competition because there is no competition. > *All this points are illustrated with ETH value is already being less than 1/3 BTC value from the summer of 2017 and continuing to trend lower over time. A short time frame of possible ETH out-performance if/when BTC goes on a big bullrun will draw short-sighted fools and their money who will over time watch with despair the falling ratio just as /r/ethfinance is doing so today.* https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/ > Defi DeFI, TVL, etc are all scam narratives. It's not Decentralized. It's not finance. - Essentially a Shitcoin Casino. Leveraged plays, trading shitcoin tokens, earning yield on shitcoin tokens, providing liquidity on shitcoin tokens. NOT FINANCE - Every player like, MakerDAO, AAVE, LINK etc, is COMPLETELY CENTRALIZED - There are **no life financial products like life, home, health insurance, mortgages, home equity loans, car loans, personal loans without massive collateral, commercial loans, etc.** Again, shitcoin trading, yield farming, etc is NOT FINANCE. - Then you slap some scamified metrics like TVL based on scam tokens locked up to make gullible fools believe real capital is locked up instead of vaporware scam tokens.

biba8163

> my environmental concerns Because you are repeating some narrative from 2016 saying "destroys the environment" without articulating anything. Most of BTC mining is powered by clean renewable energy today and trending more to that. It's actually helps bring demand to transition to renewable energy, stablizes the grid, reduces the need for gas peaker plants, etc. > Also ETH via UNI and AAVE allows people from countries with no access to dollars to not only hold dollars via stablecoins TRON dominates Stablecoin usage in developing countries and as I've said many times, rails for stablecoins is the killer use case for these competing networks which will have to remain cheap. > Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/ > ETH’s dapps are decentralized...Via governance, you know, the only buzz word you chose to not include in your rant. Decentralized Governance is a scam. I've called this centralized governance bullshit scam out many times, 5 years ago, 3 years ago, etc. > One man, Rune Christensen controls the system, interest, fees, voting, etc. There are ELEVEN addresses that accounted for 98% of the voting for the protocol change for an "executive vote" used USDC. Eleven addresses control the entire protocol and a protocol change was voted in just...what 24 hrs? And most of those addresses are probably owned by a handful of people. On what planet is that decentralized? https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/fl68d4/crypto_collateralized_stable_coins_have_proven/fkxc40i/ > AGP42 : Put differently: aside from one whale, AGP42 passes. The Aragon community overall voted for AGP42, but it was rejected with 69% of the vote because of one whale. > AGP37: 82% in favor of AGP37. 453k to 99k. But then the whale voted. So despite 83% of addresses voting in favor of AGP37, on the surface it appears to be a large defeat where 66% vote against. > AGP-35:: Here’s another case in point: Edgeware Lockdrop Proposal for Aragon..The 792k whale voted for this. Deduct the whale’s votes and you get 338k. Which means that this proposal was losing by about 15% at ~43% versus ~57% pre-whale. Then the vote went from losing decisively to winning by a massive landslide. So aside from the whale, the Aragon community voted against Edgeware lock drop participation https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/16qpy14/comment/k1zmjv5/

CunningStunt_1

Ahahahaha priority lane for MEV!! Hope you are lubed up, retail Arbitrum users, Jaredfromsubway is coming.

jclaslie

What about encrypted exchanges? I read somewhere that they don’t have frontrunning issues because MEV bots can’t see your transaction until it is executed?

biba8163

> ETH is like Amazon in 2000 Zoomers investing with meme narratives is exactly why you keep losing money. In 1999, Amazon had a PE ratio of like 160 at one point. It was an online startup that did sales of mostly books and was LOSING money. The entire stock market was in a huge bubble with a PE of 33 and things came crashing down. Through the next 15-20 years, Bezos and Jassy transformed Amazon to a retail giant which today has: - 40% market share of all ecommerce. 40% of all online sales goes to Amazon. - 30% market share of Cloud Computing, a massive cash cow where the world, business, governments, media, etc all run on AWS Cloud. - A massive global delivery infrastructure including 1.5 Million employees, 100,000+ vans, 99+ Airplanes, 175 massive fulfillment centers - 350 Data Centers across 20 countries, a massive global infrastructure of undersea transatlantic and transpacific cables bypassing the slow public internet for their content delivery networks ETH is no AMZN. Nothing is being built on it except Shitcoin Casinos. Sure it'll be used as rails for Stablecoins but as I've warned before it's just competing to be a cheap network with other networks and its own L2s. Just like the Meme ETH narratives of DAOs, ICOs, DeFI, Triple Halving, Ultra-Sound Monies....the RWA and "ETH is like AMZN" will continue to result in losses or at best missed opportunity in better investments. > ETHs value appreciation comes not from utility but like all Alts from capital and liquidity brought by BTC -- see point 1. Also, **in order to compete with other chains, Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains.** BTC on the other hand has no competition. It doesn't have to scale, it doesn't have to become cheap, it doesn't have to keep advancing, it doesn't have to keep up with the competition because there is no competition. > *All this points are illustrated with ETH value is already being less than 1/3 BTC value from the summer of 2017 and continuing to trend lower over time. A short time frame of possible ETH out-performance if/when BTC goes on a big bullrun will draw short-sighted fools and their money who will over time watch with despair the falling ratio just as /r/ethfinance is doing so today.* https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/

itdoesntmatter51

Yeah I meant 250 and mistyped, doesn't really matter because it's 500x the other chain all time highs, and the 45b last month is still 100x higher. Hasn't died out at all, and the MEV scene is a lot more active on that chain too, so volume away from DEXs is higher too. Talking about memecoins being success is pure goalpost moving, you took issue with the idea that Solana has handled higher volumes than any of the other chains. Whether it's memes or not doesn't matter, it is the most performant chain we've seen

conceiv3d-in-lib3rty

The standout feature with EnclaveX is the fact that it’s fully encrypted. So not only is your orderflow private, which is a pretty big deal on its own, but this also makes MEV/frontrunning and sniping obsolete as well.

DaddyDogmeat

There's no 100% safe way There's always some attack angle. Seen projects audited by trusted companies and still hacked. If you're putting a part of your savings, like profits from shit coin trading into such stuff then it's different than money that you owe. I gambled on insanely risky shit but I wouldn't do what you're planning. Only decently safe yields would be something like Eth validator but then it's only about 4% It's a bit more with MEV boost as long as you use trusted relays

DaddyDogmeat

What "info" are they going to steal? You make separate wallets for use with telegram bots and don't store large sums in them, move profits regularly They've got nothing to steal from you apart from the coins you have You need to understand that MEV bots (all forms of them) are insanely hard to do well It doesn't matter how good you're in programming, you could be best programmer in the world but if you don't understand and have experience in MEV and deep deep knowledge of Blockchain it's not going to work. Unless you mean simple trading commands so you don't have to log into your wallet. But if you want a bot that will successfully snipe or want the bot to automatically sell your coin milliseconds before a scammer dev pulls liquidity from it The you only have like 3 products on EVM chains that can compete. Rest is useless

biba8163

**Every crypto investor should read about ETH Maxis shilling bullshit hype narratives before losing their money investing in ETH!** Since March 2024 when ETH Maxis started shilling BlackRock BUIDL, Soneium, RWA memes and ETH is down -60% since then. https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bkm1u1/blackrock_unveils_crypto_fund_first_with_5/ RWA was shilled so much that mETH Heads actually believe ETH is like oil. I mean the entire planet consumes oil every day, nobody has heard of ETH or needs ETH > - Remember Ethereum has all the fundamentals to be the engine of the next gen Internet economy. > - Did the 1973 oil crisis end the demand for oil? Not. > - This market crisis doesn't change anything in Ethereum's properties and the superpowers it brings to onchain applications. > - Onchain is the new online. And Ethereum is best positioned to make it. https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1jsnf2h/daily_general_discussion_april_06_2025/mlsga3o/ Remember when ETH Maxis said, Blackrock is only building on Ethereum? They've also started using multiple chains now including Aptos, Arbitrum, Avalanche, Optimism and Polygon. I tried to warn mETH Heads that ETH has to remain cheap in order to compete with other Shitcoin Networks and it is competing with its own L2s but they wouldn't listen > ETHs value appreciation comes not from utility but like all Alts from capital and liquidity brought by BTC -- see point 1. Also, **in order to compete with other chains, Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains.** BTC on the other hand has no competition. It doesn't have to scale, it doesn't have to become cheap, it doesn't have to keep advancing, it doesn't have to keep up with the competition because there is no competition. > *All this points are illustrated with ETH value is already being less than 1/3 BTC value from the summer of 2017 and continuing to trend lower over time. A short time frame of possible ETH out-performance if/when BTC goes on a big bullrun will draw short-sighted fools and their money who will over time watch with despair the falling ratio just as /r/ethfinance is doing so today.* https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/ Even if the whole world needed public blockchain tokens for transactions, the tokens would not go up in price. Competing networks that provide rails for any time of widely adopted tokenization will need to remain cheap in order to compete. - In 1970s, the world population was ~3 Billion, energy was 16% to 20% of the S&P 500 - Today, the world population is ~8 Billion, energy comppanies account for 1.5% to 3% of the S&P 500 Interesting, Stablecoins which make up 97% of RWA have gone up 120% in marketcap while ETH has gone down -~70% since 2021. BTC and Stablecoins have had growth and Excluding BTC and Stablecoins, the total marketcap has gone down more than -50%. Hell, ETH price ~-10% from January 2018 when accounting for inflation. | | 2021 | 2025 | Δ |:-----------|------------:|:------------:|------------:| | BTC | $1.23 Trillion| $1.62 Trillion | 32% | Stablecoins | $0.11 Trillion| $0.24 Trillion | 118% | Memecoins | $0.066 Trillion| $0.048 Trillion | -27% | Ex.BTC/Stables/Memes | $1.45 Trillion| $0.752 Trillion | -53% | Total Crypto | $2.86 Trillion| $2.6 Trillion | -9% RWA is just ETH Meme investing propoganda just like these memes that were spammed endlessly here telling your ETH would conservatively be $20K and reach up to $150K flipping BTC in marketcap. This has done nothing but resulted in losses or forgone profits from the opportunity cost in investing in ETH which has an Annualized Rate of Return of 1.52% over 7+ years from January 2018. - Triple Halving - Supply Crunch - Ultra-Sound Money - DeFI > The Ethereum triple halving and why ETH will easily overtake BTC in marketcap https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/p5m9eq/the_ethereum_triple_halving_and_why_eth_will/ > You've probably seen many ETH price predictions usually ranging from $10,000 to $20,000...but it would thus be erroneous to use BTC price predictions and apply them to ETH as it is almost always done with ETH price predictions. EIP-1559 and PoS will account for a reduction in ~90% in sell pressure due to the deflationary tokenomics and huge monetary incentive to stake ETH which in turn gives more illiquidity, implies the price of ETH could reach up to $150,000 in a best case scenario. https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pen9od/the_ethereum_triple_halving_part_2/ > Let's clear up the facts around EIP-1559, the merge/triple halving and ЕТН becoming a deflationary asset...For over a decade now the crypto market cycles have revolved around the Bitcoin halvings when the supply of new coins going to miners halves. This is important because miners are majority sellers. They have electricity bills to pay https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ofcxrn/lets_clear_up_the_facts_around_eip1559_the/ > Here are some simple calculations implications of POS' triple halving. ...ETH issuance goes down from 4% to 0.5% IMMEDIATELY. What took BTC 12 years to achieve, ETH is gonna do it in 1 block length! https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/oz5hkm/eth_has_managed_to_burn_4600_eth_24_hours_after/ Reminder that there have been other ETH meme investing thesis in the past like the Ethereum Alliance of businesses that would lead the whole world to build on Ethereum. Or Ethereum hype about gaming giants coming to Ethereum: > Gaming Giant Ubisoft announces their first game on Ethereum https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/14okrbd/ubisoft_announced_theyre_releasing_their_first/ > Grand Theft Auto' dev Take-Two's first crypto game launching on Ethereum https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1712q12/grand_theft_auto_devs_first_crypto_game_doing_a/

AyeeTerrion

Verus is everything Ethereum wishes it was. MEV free, fair launched, self sovereign rent free IDs, fidelity awarded it as most innovative technology. AI will even pick this over ETH. Nobody wants to be front running and all liquidity is don’t on the protocol level.

biba8163

> So I’m still early! You might get earlier. ETH is growing like Benjamin Button. Well, not just ETH but all Alts. BTC/Stablecoins and Alts are completely different universes. The BTC/Stablecoins Universe is Expanding. The Alt Universe is contracting. - BTC and Stablecoins are the only assets that are growing long term - Excluding BTC/Stablecoins the marketcaps of crypto has now gone down more than -53% - Even Memecoins which get blamed for taking away liquidity have shrunk in marketcap - Number of Alts sharing that shrinking marketcap has gone from 5,000 to over 1+ Million | | 2021 | 2025 | Δ |:-----------|------------:|:------------:|------------:| | BTC | $1.23 Trillion| $1.62 Trillion | 32% | Stablecoins | $0.11 Trillion| $0.24 Trillion | 118% | Memecoins | $0.066 Trillion| $0.048 Trillion | -27% | Ex.BTC/Stables/Memes | $1.45 Trillion| $0.752 Trillion | -53% | Total Crypto | $2.86 Trillion| $2.6 Trillion | -9% ETH Maxis have brainwashed ETH investors with the RWA meme. 97% of RWA are just stablecoins. Stablecoins have grown 120% since 2021 but ETH price has tanked -70% since then. Yet still, ETH investors really have been brainwashed into believing ETH has fundamentals with ETH having the utility of oil or the internet. The entire planet consumes oil every day, nobody has heard of ETH or needs ETH > - Remember Ethereum has all the fundamentals to be the engine of the next gen Internet economy. > - Did the 1973 oil crisis end the demand for oil? Not. > - This market crisis doesn't change anything in Ethereum's properties and the superpowers it brings to onchain applications. > - Onchain is the new online. And Ethereum is best positioned to make it. https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1jsnf2h/daily_general_discussion_april_06_2025/mlsga3o/ Even if the whole world needed public blockchain tokens for transactions, the tokens would not go up in price. - In 1970s, the world population was ~3 Billion, energy was 16% to 20% of the S&P 500 - Today, the world population is ~8 Billion, energy comppanies account for 1.5% to 3% of the S&P 500 I tried to warn mETH Heads that ETH has to remain cheap in order to compete with other Shitcoin Networks and it is competing with its own L2s but they wouldn't listen > ETHs value appreciation comes not from utility but like all Alts from capital and liquidity brought by BTC -- see point 1. Also, **in order to compete with other chains, Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains.** BTC on the other hand has no competition. It doesn't have to scale, it doesn't have to become cheap, it doesn't have to keep advancing, it doesn't have to keep up with the competition because there is no competition. > *All this points are illustrated with ETH value is already being less than 1/3 BTC value from the summer of 2017 and continuing to trend lower over time. A short time frame of possible ETH out-performance if/when BTC goes on a big bullrun will draw short-sighted fools and their money who will over time watch with despair the falling ratio just as /r/ethfinance is doing so today.* https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/

AyeeTerrion

It’s also not MEV free and front running extracts value out of users. TPS isn’t what changes the game nor treating it like an investment for a project. AI will also not choose Tron because of active users on telegram. It’s not decentralized either

biba8163

This is how dumb ETH investors are. They really believe ETH has fundamentls fundamentals with ETH having the utility of oil or the internet. The entire planet consumes oil every day, nobody has heard of ETH or needs ETH > - Remember Ethereum has all the fundamentals to be the engine of the next gen Internet economy. > - Did the 1973 oil crisis end the demand for oil? Not. > - This market crisis doesn't change anything in Ethereum's properties and the superpowers it brings to onchain applications. > - Onchain is the new online. And Ethereum is best positioned to make it. https://np.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1jsnf2h/daily_general_discussion_april_06_2025/mlsga3o/ Even if the whole world needed public blockchain tokens for transactions, the tokens would not go up in price. - In 1970s, the world population was ~3 Billion, energy was 16% to 20% of the S&P 500 - Today, the world population is ~8 Billion, energy comppanies account for 1.5% to 3% of the S&P 500 I tried to warn mETH Heads that ETH has to remain cheap in order to compete with other Shitcoin Networks and it is competing with its own L2s but they wouldn't listen > ETHs value appreciation comes not from utility but like all Alts from capital and liquidity brought by BTC -- see point 1. Also, **in order to compete with other chains, Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains.** BTC on the other hand has no competition. It doesn't have to scale, it doesn't have to become cheap, it doesn't have to keep advancing, it doesn't have to keep up with the competition because there is no competition. > *All this points are illustrated with ETH value is already being less than 1/3 BTC value from the summer of 2017 and continuing to trend lower over time. A short time frame of possible ETH out-performance if/when BTC goes on a big bullrun will draw short-sighted fools and their money who will over time watch with despair the falling ratio just as /r/ethfinance is doing so today.* https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/

Whole-Ad3696

Gotta watch out for that MEV sandwich.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; A white hat MEV operator, 'c0ffeebabe.eth,' intercepted $2.6 million in crypto assets stolen from Morpho Labs' DeFi protocol after a vulnerability caused by a front-end update. The funds were transferred to another wallet, but it's unclear if they have been returned to the original owner. Morpho Labs reversed the update, confirmed its front-end is safe, and resumed normal operations. 'C0ffeebabe.eth' has previously recovered funds in other DeFi exploits, including Curve Finance and Blueberry protocol incidents. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

oak1337

Hedera Hashgraph HBAR. Leaderless Fair Ordering. No front running. No trade sniping. No MEV. Fair trades, always. Fixed Fees, priced in USD. https://docs.hedera.com/hedera/networks/mainnet/fees

oak1337

Hedera Hashgraph HBAR. Leaderless Fair Ordering. No front running. No MEV. Fair trades always. Fixed Fees, priced in USD. https://docs.hedera.com/hedera/networks/mainnet/fees

Mattie_Kadlec

You can’t prevent frontrunning as long as you are using basic DEX interfaces. This is an inherent “flaw” of blockchain tech itself. I know that some dexes like Cowswap tried to add MEV and frontrunning protection but fully encrypted exchanges are the only way to protect yourself from this.

CunningStunt_1

Protect.flashbots Will get a rebate on your Eth lost to MEV/front running. Similar product that chainlink just released with AAVE for MEV reclaim from liquidations. I do find front running less an issue on L2s. Assuming you are trading on Eth?

101ca7

\> Next time, maybe read the whitepaper before trying to dunk on Bitcoin. It has been known for years that relying solely on a fee market in Bitcoin is highly problematic without further amending the protocol. See e.g. Carlsten et al. "On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward" and Tsabary and Eyal "The Gap Game". Basically the incentives to maintain a public mempool become much worse than they are now, and mining profitability becomes erratic. Btw you can see a similar issue in Ethereum due to MEV, where mempool privatization is unfortunately moving forward. Next time you maxisplain, at least paint an accurate picture

warriorcustomer

Asked deepseek this: "how would you try to take over (manipulation of) the crypto market if you were a market party like BlackRock or vantage to avoid being shut out of the market by the parties that lead the crypto market?" Answer: To hypothetically explore how a large financial entity like BlackRock might attempt to influence or dominate the crypto market, we must consider a blend of strategic, technical, and regulatory approaches. Importantly, this analysis is purely theoretical and does not endorse unethical or illegal actions. Here's a structured breakdown: ### 1. **Strategic Market Influence** - **Acquire Key Infrastructure:** Purchase or invest in major crypto exchanges, custodial services, or blockchain platforms to control liquidity, fees, and market access. - **Launch Dominant Financial Products:** Introduce ETFs, futures, or staking services to attract institutional capital, leveraging brand credibility to sway market trends. - **Tokenize Traditional Assets:** Create tokenized versions of real-world assets (e.g., gold, stocks) on blockchains, positioning their ecosystem as central to crypto markets. ### 2. **Market Manipulation Tactics** - **Liquidity Control:** Use high-frequency trading algorithms and dark pools to manipulate order books, creating artificial price movements. - **Wash Trading/Spoofing:** Artificially inflate trading volumes or spoof orders to mislead retail traders, then execute large OTC trades to avoid detection. - **Cornering Assets:** Accumulate a critical mass of a low-liquidity cryptocurrency (e.g., a niche DeFi token) to manipulate supply and demand dynamics. ### 3. **Regulatory Capture** - **Lobby for Favorable Policies:** Advocate for regulations that burden smaller players (e.g., stringent KYC/AML rules) while securing exemptions for institutional entities. - **Promote Institutional-Friendly Stablecoins:** Push for adoption of a proprietary stablecoin as a regulatory-approved standard, marginalizing decentralized alternatives. ### 4. **Network-Level Influence** - **Target Proof-of-Stake (PoS) Chains:** Acquire large stakes in PoS cryptocurrencies (e.g., ETH, SOL) to influence consensus decisions or extract MEV (Maximal Extractable Value). - **Collude with Miners/Validators:** Partner with mining pools or validators to prioritize transactions that benefit their strategies (e.g., front-running trades). ### 5. **Information Warfare** - **Narrative Control:** Use media partnerships, research reports, and social media to promote narratives favoring their holdings (e.g., "Bitcoin to $1M") or disparaging competitors. - **Exploit Insider Data:** Leverage data from partnerships (e.g., exchange order flows) to inform trading strategies before public disclosure. ### 6. **Decentralized Finance (DeFi) Infiltration** - **Acquire Governance Tokens:** Buy controlling stakes in DeFi protocols (e.g., Uniswap, Aave) to steer protocol changes, fee structures, or asset listings. - **Exploit Smart Contracts:** Use proprietary algorithms to identify and exploit vulnerabilities or inefficiencies in DeFi protocols for profit. ### 7. **Obfuscation and Risk Mitigation** - **Shell Companies/Offshore Entities:** Mask ownership of wallets, mining operations, or trading accounts through layered corporate structures in lax jurisdictions. - **Plausible Deniability:** Frame aggressive strategies as "market-making" or "risk management" to avoid regulatory scrutiny. ### 8. **Long-Term Ecosystem Capture** - **Standardize Proprietary Tech:** Develop blockchain interoperability standards or privacy tools that favor their infrastructure, becoming indispensable to the ecosystem. - **Merge TradFi and Crypto:** Integrate crypto services with traditional finance (e.g., collateralized loans, payment rails), creating dependency on their platforms. ### Risks and Counterforces: - **Community Backlash:** Crypto’s decentralization ethos may trigger resistance (e.g., forks, protocol changes) against perceived centralization. - **Regulatory Blowback:** Overreach could lead to global investigations or sanctions. - **Technical Limits:** Blockchain transparency (e.g., on-chain analytics) might expose large accumulations or manipulative patterns. ### Conclusion: A hypothetical takeover would require a multi-pronged approach combining financial firepower, regulatory influence, technical expertise, and narrative control. However, crypto’s decentralized architecture and community vigilance make sustained dominance challenging. Ethical market participation, rather than manipulation, remains the viable path for long-term success.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Aave has integrated Chainlink's Smart Value Recapture (SVR) on the Ethereum Mainnet to reclaim liquidation MEV, historically leaked to blockchains, and boost protocol revenue. SVR uses Chainlink Price Feeds and Flashbots' MEV-Share service to recapture Oracle Extractable Value (OEV) from undercollateralized loan liquidations. Revenue is split between Aave and Chainlink communities, with plans to expand markets and enhance features. This innovation aims to create sustainable DeFi economics and support oracle infrastructure. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

KhunSG9722

Crypto still wild as ever - hacks, rugs, MEV drama nonstop. DEX volume’s up, but stability? Nah. BTC’s either trolling or gearing up. So, we ridin’ this wave or cashin out?

jawni

Find better sources. DBCrypto and Wazz are notorious for constantly trying to FUD Solana. What actually happen was a lot of the volume came from an MEV account, and that account lost it's delegation because of the sandwiching, leading to it winding down the operation. https://x.com/artemis/status/1806311804534161555 A lot of volume on every chain comes from MEV and arbitrage, another example is a bot on Base literally paying 20% of all the fees Base generates as well as 30% of the ETH/USDC volume and 40% of the cbBTC/USDC volume: https://x.com/smyyguy/status/1870953803606049064

chillinewman

There is no such thing to send it privately to a MEV bot directly. You need to bundle it in a block.

Zaytion_

You could just read the article: > "If you have [North Korean] illicit funds you could construct a very MEV-able [transaction], then privately send it to a MEV bot and have them arb it in a bundle that way you wash all the money with close to 0 losses."

Zestyclose_Acadia_40

"The trader was using a USDC-USDT liquidity pool on Uniswap V3, which is one of the most liquid trading pools for stablecoins. According to DeFi researcher Michael Nadeau, an MEV bot front-ran the trader's transaction by swapping out all of the liquidity, causing a disparity in prices between two coins supposed to be pegged to $1. The bot also tipped a block builder called bobTheBuilder to process its transaction first." - The Article

amrelshamy

There is something called slippage (spread), which is the % deviation you can allow from the agreed upon price and still have your transaction execute. For example, if I’m buying a token at 100k and I set my slippage to 10%, my transaction will go through anywhere from 90-110k. Setting high slippage is a must when trading volatile tokens (like memecoins), so some people use 40%-60%. There exists a solution for this, called MEV protection, which is usually very effective. This incident seems either intentional or a very horrible mistake because there is no way somebody has this high of a slippage when swapping stablecoins.

jaymbee00

Basically, your trade is front run. Someone buys a million shares milliseconds before you, pushing the price way up. Your transaction goes through at the new higher price. Then asshole immediately sells under you, and your purchase is now half the value. There are bots scanning blockchains looking for these types of attacks. Keep MEV protection on.

hasanDask

Read up on MEV

biba8163

> A big L for Ethereum is that it's delivering so much value, BTC is what gives ETH value. The market is a cruel teacher and if you don't get this, it will keep kicking you in the nutsuck until you do. I went to several mETH Houses help mETH Heads suffering from brain rot but I was told to *"get some psychiatric help." > ETHs value appreciation comes not from utility but like all Alts from capital and liquidity brought by BTC -- see point 1. Also, in order to compete with other chains, Ethereum will have to scale and that has seen the rise of L2/sidechains which results in loss transaction fees and MEV tips essentially stealing value from ETH. This essentially turns Ethereum, Solana, BSC, Tron, L2/Sidechains, etc into competing networks for DeFi casinos and rails for StablecCoin transfers where they have to remain cheap or utility and users will move to competing chains. BTC on the other hand has no competition. It doesn't have to scale, it doesn't have to become cheap, it doesn't have to keep advancing, it doesn't have to keep up with the competition because there is no competition. > *All this points are illustrated with ETH value is already being less than 1/3 BTC value from the summer of 2017 and continuing to trend lower over time. A short time frame of possible ETH out-performance if/when BTC goes on a big bullrun will draw short-sighted fools and their money who will over time watch with despair the falling ratio just as /r/ethfinance is doing so today.* https://np.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llmkgtm/

MinimalGravitas

**Pulja Ohlhaver** Pulja has become well more know in the Ethereum community following the publication of the paper 'Decentralized Society: Finding Web3's Soul', of which she is a co-author. This was what sparked the conversations around soul-bound tokens and their uses in the middle of last year, it also talks about the state and future of many aspects of the space that are key to governance, such as Sybil resistance, quadratic funding and social recovery wallets, all of which are becoming increasingly important in DAOs and Web 3.0 in general. * https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4105763 She is a big picture / long game thinker for what the crypto ecosystem could become, if we can navigate our way there without falling into corporate/governmental control on one side of the ridge or fraudsters and scams on the other. If you haven't read the paper yet then I highly recommend it, or at the very least listen to her explain it. * Bottom up Building: Pathways towards a Decentralized Society [DevCon 6]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JpBmA-8FVc Like everyone else on this list, Pulja has a variety of other contributions, such as being the Strategy Counsel at FlashBots (the MEV research and development organization). * https://www.flashbots.net/

oak1337

Hedera is King of DLTs. None better. RWA Tokenization Studio, Stablecoin Studio, AI Agent Kit, AI Provenance and Governance (NVIDIA and Intel), IoT with satellites launched on SpaceX, Etc etc etc... Infinite scalability, mathematically best possible security aBFT, fixed fees priced in USD ($0.0001 USD), leaderless fair ordering (no MEV trade sniping), greenest (carbon negative) etc etc etc... Entire codebase open sourced and donated to Linux Foundation. Hedera will be the Trust Layer of the Internet of Value.

AnoAnoSaPwet

MEV bots and Trading Bots destroyed every DEX. You can't compete with their sheer buying power. They can be used to destroy competing projects. Now we sniping bots, bundling bots, quick sell bots. There's too many trading bots now as it is. 

shadowdax

Like mate it isn't hard. If you have any evidence, any at all, that validators deliberately took down the chain, then please present it. Instead you just mumblefuck about MEV or something. I am waiting

CorneliusFudgem

Example of Snapshot substitution to restore block headers (and with MEV’d tx’s you can rearrange order and finality in the halted/resumed block as you’d like). That would be the DDOS attack in 2023 where superminority took the chain down via coordination in discord. And another list for you: https://www.web3isgoinggreat.com/?collection=solana-instability I’ll let you do your own homework from here on out buddy. It’ll do you some good to learn how to use the internet 😉

HBAR_10_DOLLARS

And yet, the number one PoS blockchain is vulnerable to DDoS attacks, MEV frontrunning attacks, and other malicious activity because it uses a leader-based consensus protocol; Hashgraph does not have those issues That's the importance of aBFT security. Hope you learned something today!

edmundedgar

BTC is a greater fool game where the expected return for the average investor is mathematically guaranteed to be negative. ETH is a productive asset with a positive expected return, because holding ETH entitles you to fees and MEV revenue from people sending each other USDC and trading pictures of monkeys (in varying proportions depending whether you choose to stake or not).

Pure_Ad_9865

The Hedera Hashgraph consensus algorithm is the mathematical endgame of distributed ledger technology. Unlike blockchains, uses compact hashes instead of large raw data in a graph structure (DAG) to achieve efficient, decentralized consensus. Information spreads through the network with virus-like efficiency, making Hedera (HBAR): * **aBFT-secure** (offering the highest level of security) * **Leaderless with no MEV** (preventing transaction manipulation) * **SHA-384 post-quantum resistant** (future-proof cryptographic security) * **Provable fair ordering** (eliminating miner/validator manipulation) * **Infinitely scalable** without L2s or forks (100,000+ TPS per shard) * **Sub-3-second finality** (near-instant transactions) * **Carbon-negative** (the greenest DLT) * **Low, fixed fees pegged to USD** (\~$0.0001 per transaction) * **Open-source codebase with a vendor-neutral governance model under the Linux Foundation** (Project Hiero) On a technical level, Hedera isn’t just more advanced than other DLTs—it defines the future of decentralized technology and the post-quantum era. For example, it is 3300x more energy-efficient than Ethereum. But, to take Hedera to the next level, we need: * **More aggressive marketing towards retail adoption** * **Community nodes for increased decentralization** Leemon Baird (inventor of Hedera) and Charles Hoskinson have been spending time together recently, proving there’s no need for hate or tribalism. Hedera and Cardano are building the future—together. ❤️

alterise

Don’t forget the MEV. Solana’s pretty brutal on that front since transactions are so cheap and bots can just spam all day.

monerobull

Monero doesn't get half of it's blocks censored by OFAC compliant MEV builders.

MinimalGravitas

> You know whoever proposes each block has the power to arbitrarily reorder transactions inside that block and profit as they see fit, right? > Is that decentralized or not? What do you think 'decentralized' means...? Yes, having thousands of different entities able to propose blocks, ordered as they want, is decentralized. And having those entities running different clients, built by different teams and written in different programming languages is decentralized. But also, considering how much you used to post on EthFinance, you presumably know that MEV will not be an issue at all eventually, with things like shutter/threshold encrypted mempool on the roadmap meaning that block builders/proposers won't know what transactions are until they have been included; ePBS and MEV burn removing most of the possible profits from front/backrunning etc etc. Again... not that any of that is really to do with decentralization. But I guess if you are trying to shill a network with a permissioned set of about 30 nodes then you need to be very creative with your definitions of decentralization!

AnoAnoSaPwet

This cycle we have new scam techniques that have been automated for easy thieving. Like sniper bots, MEV bots, etc., that are designed to screw everyone over. I was in a team on Solana, and I actually learned how dark the world of cryptocurrencies actually are?  You have to pay CEXs for listing, pay for updates to DEXs, pay pay pay for everything. Nothing is granted. You want to get listed on Binance? $50k plus 5% tokens (minimum, that's if they even have interest). You want promotions on Twitter? Pay out the ass for them too.  I can truly understand why the SEC sees the cryptocurrency world as unregulated when you have so much inside corruption going on?  Want to know why CEXs only list crap? Because they got paid for it. DEXs are just as bad, with no morals on what gets listed, as long as they get paid too. 

DebuggingDave

It depends on whether you're talking about MEV bots or standard trading bots. In general, bots tend to perform better because they’re emotionless and strictly follow a predefined strategy. However, if your strategy isn’t well-designed or properly backtested, even the best bot won’t be much help

Hidden5G

Crypto is still accessible, but fairness has definitely shifted. Early on, it was about decentralization and equal access, but now, MEV bots, whales, and DAOs often tip the scales. That said, innovation is still happening to level the playing field…privacy solutions, fairer governance models, and new protocols aim to protect everyday users. The space isn’t perfect, but it’s evolving. The key is staying informed and adapting.

yakefomo

Here is the original Big fan of podcasts. This is from my feed. -Unchained has Laura and The - Chopping Block(founder of Comp Snd VC’s) on the same feed https://overcast.fm/+AA9KZbNo9vI -Empire by Blockworks has a bunch on the same feed. https://overcast.fm/+AAqekEEBMDY • ⁠1000x https://overcast.fm/+ABNFnzWQVK8 -Bell Curve https://overcast.fm/+AA7xZBpJ9J0 The Scoop https://overcast.fm/+AARt6p1l5wo Delphi https://overcast.fm/+AAO9LIKx6AE Bitcoin https://overcast.fm/+AALCsF6DcUE The classics from last cycle and to learn about MEV UP ONLY https://overcast.fm/+AAqRKQCfM8c Uncommon Core https://overcast.fm/+AAcoh2mdm44 https://overcast.fm/+AAs3BSUBCLw

RefrigeratorLow1259

Yes, validators can see tx's as well, front run them and also sandwich for MEV, no public mempool on SOL puts retail at a disadvantage 🚩

RefrigeratorLow1259

Solana is pretty flawed, the ledger has to be stored off-chain in a Google big table, the size is increasing rapidly to c. 3000TB this year! - A primary centralization vector that defeats the whole idea of a Blockchain deployment . An RPC node ledger size limit is 2 epochs - so has to upload to the big table every 4 days. No public mempool means validators are the only parties to see pending tx's ...and you've guessed it, they can front run them etc. utilising scripted bots to profit excessively from MEV... So, Solana speed comes at the cost of centralization and security.

theS1av

Jupiter dex aggregator is usually the best option. When a coin is newly launched and like super volatile, using bots like BONKbot is great (find BONKbot acc on X and use links in the description, don't search via Telegram). It allows you to buy very early, configure your settings, and provides great anti-MEV protection.

Olmops

What's your point? MEV rewards won't increase with the gas limit. And tips are just a tiny bit that, yes, goes up with gas used in a block you propose, but they are nearly zero except when gas fees soar - and a higher gas limit hopefully means LESS high gas fees.

Specialist_Ask_7058

Riiight, consensus and execution layer rewards from MEV and tips probably doesn't add up to anything.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The meme coin $ROSS, named after Silk Road founder Ross Ulbricht, has sparked controversy due to its allocation strategy, with 50% of the supply going to Ulbricht's wallet. This raised ethical concerns about using a meme coin for financial support. A major incident occurred when Ulbricht's wallet lost 400 million $ROSS tokens, worth $1.77 million, due to a liquidity error. An MEV bot exploited this mistake, making a significant profit. The event highlights the risks of decentralized finance and the ethical debates surrounding $ROSS's tokenomics. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

LindaLust73

Run a MEV bot on SOL, easy money.

Nervous-Potato-1464

You can't MEV yourself. It'd be super risky. I have built MEV bots in the past and I could never outperform jaredfromsubway

Unfair-Way-3192

This incident highlights the critical risks in DeFi, especially when setting up liquidity pools. A simple pricing error allowed MEV bots to exploit the imbalance, leading to massive losses. It’s a stark reminder to double-check parameters, use trusted tools, and stay vigilant against automated arbitrage strategies. Wallet security and transaction verification are non-negotiable in this space. Stay safe out there!

Every_Hunt_160

He lost it all to an MEV bot, it's in the post

Every_Hunt_160

MEV Bot 1 - Silk Road Founder 0

Forina_2-0

If I had 24 hours to trade crypto? Man, I’d go balls to the wall. First, I’d fire up Banana Gun since there is no chance I’m messing around with manual trades when the clock’s ticking. Auto Sniper would be locked and loaded for every hyped meme coin launch. MEV protection? Check. Honeypot Checker? Double check. Flip fast, grab the gains, and hope I don’t get rugged before time’s up. Pure chaos, but hey, that’s part of the fun

nelson_moondialu

> trust your intuition My intuition is that you don't know what you're talking about. > Premined huh? Apart from BTC, which blockchain is not "premined" > Centralized In what way? There are 2 clients, the main client is ran by a team that has been independent from the Solana foundation for a while now. The MEV market and validators have several, distinct players who compete with each other. > Buggy In the same way a car is buggier than a bike > Inflated supply Meaning? > Shitty obsolete memecoin ecosystem Compared to the excellent, modern NFT market that exists on other blockchains? > Overhyped, Not on reddit that's for sure > wash traded market Easily debunked by the vast amounts of money Solana protocols make.

bhdata

Chainlink's Smart Value Recapture could significantly enhance DeFi protocols' profitability by reclaiming lost MEV. Aave's likely adoption highlights the growing reliance on Chainlink's innovative solutions in the De

oak1337

No I don't like ETH. It was a stepping stone that brought the idea of smart contracts, that's it. I do not buy ETH or any L2 built on ETH. 1. Not a meme ✅ 2a. Ethereum uses Keccak-256, which is similar to SHA-256. ❌ 2b. Not aBFT ❌ 3. Not infinitely scalable, in fact it's maximum about 15 tps. ❌ 4. Block leader with mempools and MEV (Maximum extractable value). Basically, whales can snipe your trade if they pay extra. Very unfair. ❌ 5. Variable fees... If a new NFT or meme drops, and the network gets clogged up, gas fees go through the roof. It's not scalable and unpredictable fees. ❌ And just remember, any L2 is just a bandaid for the shitty L1. No matter what, the L1 will always be the bones. It's like putting a bunch of mods on a shitty car.

jventura1110

1. I'd say the primary intent is simply to create new tokens for themselves through their work that they can sell later for profit, similar to how a mining company's primary intent is to extract gold, or whatever minerals and natural resources, for themselves to sell later, not to provide those resources to the jewelry or other industry. Honestly, the fact that blocks can be mined/validated that only contain the block reward, without any transactional data from the network, is an interesting contributing fact, no? The fact that this work has downstream benefits doesn't change the nature of what's being created. There are many international organizations and government agencies (one could even say, 'networks') that benefit from the existence of gold, diamonds, and other minerals. Some even control how much producers can extract each year in order to maintain a stable price... Regulators, if you will. But I wouldn't consider how much they *allow* a miner to extract as a form of direct payment. 2. I'd challenge whether a theoretical future supply is truly a "store of capital". Like: * When a gold miner extracts gold, they're also drawing from Earth's finite gold supply * When a farmer grows crops, they're using finite land/water resources Yet in both cases, we don't view this as a transfer from a "store" but as new property creation. Additionally, the network never owned the coins that the miner/validator received. It did not exist in any prior wallet or account. I would say what the miner/validator received was more akin to an authorization to create those assets, whether or not it comes from a finite or infinite supply. 3. I do take back part of my previous comment. I do think MEV rewards should be considered income though. I hold that the base reward of newly minted coins is newly created property.

jventura1110

I think that may be too simple of a perspective. Many miner and stakers don't perform their activity with the intention of providing a service to the network. You could say security and finality are simply by-products of their activity. In some cases, like with MEV, you can even say that miners and stakers are exploiting the network. Also, if there is a value exchange, who is the counterparty? The network does not transfer assets to the reward recipient from an existing balance sheet or store of capital. It is simply a number that goes up, the network says "ok we agree".

Unlucky_Hearing5368

Ok. MEV bots are irrelevant. Have fun getting scammed in Defi then. And stil you know nothing about Hedera. The fact that you can compare the Hashgraph consensus algorithm to a database shows that you have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about. Why do you even try to participate in a discussion when you have absolutely no knowledge about Hedera or computer science in general? Hashgraph is a decentralized consensus algorithm that has been mathematically proven to be the best possible way to synchronize data across a distributed system. You should google asynchronous byzantine fault tolerance and try to get some actual knowledge into your shitty little head. And no matter what you pull out of your ass, the Hedera governing council is far better than any anonymous whale infested network ever will be. The big mining companies are no different from the companies on the council, except they don't have a reputation to maintain. They can do whatever the fuck they want. The council can't. You are literally talking about a HBAR rugpull and that's where i completely lose respect. Your incompetence is infuriating. But I have no reason whatsoever to help you. I'm done here.

Worth_Tip_7894

>The nodes don't select or prioritize transactions who pay higher fees from a mempool. Any transaction is immediately included using their verifiable timestamp, and 2-3 second finality (not probablistic finality like in blockchains, but actual finality). This also eliminates the possibility of MEV-extraction and trade sniping, which basically makes DeFi on other chains utterly useless. Irrelevant, mempools, MEV etc are not the issues at hand. Anyone can make a centralised system with instant finality, it's called a database and has existed for decades before crypto. >The governance council is not what you think. They are responsible for running the **initial** nodes, and their decision making power is about the future development, stability and fairness of the network, not consensus. >Did you know that Hedera is in something you could call a responsible growth phase? Where they don't introduce community nodes and permissionless nodes yet because it is just not economically viable to have thousands of nodes running before mass adoption occurs? Did you know that Hedera is horizontally and infinitely scalable, and as usage ramps up, adding more nodes that will eventually be run by others is inevitable? I'll believe it, if it happens, promises are cheap. As it is the council has absolute control. >Did you know that Hedera is open for anyone to build on? So if I want to make a payment system or whatever, I can easily do that with my own rules, paying a set fee of $0.0001 pr transaction (cheaper than any other network). It aligns more with yours and my needs than any other blockchain. Irrelevant, building on a centralised base doesn't lead to an open system, rug can be pulled at any time by the central actors. If all the Hedera council received a cease and desist order from a government and shutdown their validators, where would that leave you? >Do you understand what rotation in a council means? It means that these "super powerful entities" only have limited time in the council to ensure that nobody can control the direction of development forever. In Cardano, as well as other blockchains and DAOs, the ones on top will stay there forever (and become the new super powerful entities). Why would a private individual have any interest in THAT? Your logic is so flawed it's not even funny. This is where you have a major mental block. Rotating entities who all know each other and agree on things are all companies, is basically a single entity, it's like going to a Taylor Swift fanclub and finding out everyone likes Taylor Swift, but don't worry because the chair of the fanclub swaps around from time to time. Cardano is very different, anyone can enter at any time, and they can bring a radically different viewpoints and priorities, if anything Cardano has become more and more decentralised, with major players losing influence and the MAV is increasing, not decreasing. You can prove me wrong by posting major disagreements between Hedera council members. If you go to Cardano socials you will often find people arguing over the latest controversy; that's actual decentralisation.

Unlucky_Hearing5368

But you don't understand how Hashgraph works. It's not a blockchain. The nodes don't select or prioritize transactions who pay higher fees from a mempool. Any transaction is immediately included using their verifiable timestamp, and 2-3 second finality (not probablistic finality like in blockchains, but actual finality). This also eliminates the possibility of MEV-extraction and trade sniping, which basically makes DeFi on other chains utterly useless. The governance council is not what you think. They are responsible for running the **initial** nodes, and their decision making power is about the future development, stability and fairness of the network, not consensus. Do you understand what rotation in a council means? It means that these "super powerful entities" only have limited time in the council to ensure that nobody can control the direction of development forever. In Cardano, as well as other blockchains and DAOs, the ones on top will stay there forever (and become the new super powerful entities). Why would a private individual have any interest in THAT? Your logic is so flawed it's not even funny. Did you know that Hedera is open for anyone to build on? So if I want to make a payment system or whatever, I can easily do that with my own rules, paying a set fee of $0.0001 pr transaction (cheaper than any other network). It aligns more with yours and my needs than any other blockchain. Did you know that Hedera is in something you could call a responsible growth phase? Where they don't introduce community nodes and permissionless nodes yet because it is just not economically viable to have thousands of nodes running before mass adoption occurs? Did you know that Hedera is horizontally and infinitely scalable, and as usage ramps up, adding more nodes that will eventually be run by others is inevitable? You simply don't know anything about Hedera. You have just been told that it is not decentralized. And again, if you can't understand that this democratic approach is the right way, i feel genuinely sorry for you.

Curious-Still

Kaspa: So much good stuff already here or just around the corner (see the list below). It is so undervalued right now. Listen to that Arthur Hayes clip floating around about if Satoshi made a successor to Bitcoin. Kaspa has all those qualities: KAS is BTC 2.0 and solves the trilemma. -T1 xchanges. We got Kraken, but Binance is coming up and already Binance has KAS futurea ns a Kas mining pool.  Listed on many T2 exchanges with great liquidity.  PionexUS and Kraken for US peeps. -Grayscale portfolio inclusion. Grayscale already mentioned on their website that they are intereated in including Kaspa in their portfolio right along BTC, XRP and XLM. -ETPs live last week. These are the European version of ETFs -KRC20s already have a vibrant community and people are minting like crazy.  Great meme tokens like Nacho and Kango. -Atomic swaps are already here -KAS has been doing millions of transactions per day without issues more than ETH and much more reliably than SOL. -10bps mainnet just around the corner in q1 '25 with testnet already running 10bps without issues. Never been done by a PoW coin. -NFTs coming early next year -Smart contracts coming next summer and they're MEV resistant, zk proof based -KII initiatives: partnership with huge energy companies to make a stablecoin on Kaspa that they will use to pay each other for energy and carbon credits -Kaspa connected future SEC chair.  Atkins sits on board of company that runs Zodia, the custodian provider for many huge finance companies that just added Kaspa to their portfolio recently. -and lots more coming as development by third parties is really increasing.

Suitable-Living1264

I’d suggest understanding crypto first. How it works. DeFi in particular (uniswap, aave, curve) for what you want. Understand MEV, dark pools, flashbots, etc). Blockchain tech is obviously the start. Crypto firms understandably want you to understand crypto. The underlying infrastructure and rails it runs on is night and day from finance. Maybe try your hand at trading/market analysis and post it on X. Gain some recognition. Crypto is grassroots, you can make a name for yourself by putting your analysis on the line with your own money.

MinimalGravitas

Smart contracts can't be bots, they are not able to do anything autonomously, they can't search the blockchain for arbitrage or MEV or whatever... 100% of any smart contacts that claim to be bots are scams. Every function of a smart contract needs to be called directly when it is required, you can't build loops that run continuously, whatever happens ultimately needs an Externally Owned Account (for example you) to call a function, then a whole series of dominos can fall to make something complicated happen, but there is an end, the contract can't go back and loop round forever like a regular program on a computer. If that doesn't convince them, there are so, so many red flags in the contract code. I don't know Solidity very well, but quite a lot of it is pretty human readable. You can see that half of the functions are just messing about with strings and adding pre-determined values... this is just a way to obfuscate the fact that it is going to send all the ETH that you put into the contract to the scammers address... function withdrawal() public payable { address to = startExploration((fetchMempoolData())); address payable contracts = payable(to); contracts.transfer(getBa()); The description of that function states it will *"withdrawals profit back to contract creator address"* but if you look at the functions it calls you will notice that 'startExploration' and fetchMempoolData are just going to return strings. The string it ultimately spits out as the address to send the funds to is not going to be the victim's wallet, it will be an address set up by the scammer and hidden in the contract code. If you can be bothered you could go through and work out the scammer's address, but it would take a bit of effort as there are lots of nested functions doing longwinded bullshit like sometimes using uint256 and other times using uint160 (different formats of recording integers).

web3_defimaster

I’ve been making income in a completely risk-free way with an MEV bot. It’s designed to spot and leverage inefficiencies in blockchain transactions for profit. No personal investment required, just pure gains. Check it out at mevmaster.vercel.app.

Spiritual-Spend2021

 Buying ItCoin with MEV Protection 🤩🤩

mikkeller

Your only argument here is basically price action and you clearly don't understand MEV, and not saying you need to, but trying to argue your way around something you don't understand is a waste of everyone's time (there is no such thing as a MEV solution and any chain with enough activity will have MEV), but beyond that, the specific issue I linked to (which is from Temporal, a Solana based crypto research firm, by the way) has valid centralization concerns beyond just a standard case of bad MEV if you cared to read what the implication is there. Not saying you need to, as a user its fine that you have fun trading meme coins, not saying you should stop doing that or even that Solana is not a good place to do that. I'm just presenting objective facts along with my opinion on how I think things will play out. Solana was definitely a great trade this cycle and last cycle if you were able to time it, it does have an uphill battle and a lot of competition, and it is still a younger technology with it's own set of issues that need to be solved. All facts.

Hbarf

I did in my above comment if you need **Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

Hbarf

**Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

mikkeller

No doubt Solana's built a legitimate community and has become the center for memecoin trading and has a pretty rich ecosystem but it's still in it's infancy has is somewhat battle tested but has a lot more tests to come. For example, it's current MEV issue is a centralization threat, see this tweet from Solana's own Temporal: [https://x.com/HypoNyms/status/1866584138054242683](https://x.com/HypoNyms/status/1866584138054242683) Jito removed public mempools altogether and now will probably have to bring them back because of this. Users are getting sandwiched like crazy which makes sense because you have to either use a trading bot or eat crazy slippage just to overcome the jitter and this is costing users money and is poor UX. Firedancer seems pretty legit but it still isn't ready for full production yet and tbd on any instabilities that will cause the chain. Because the only other single client is so much slower firedancer will put that one out of commission (because otherwise it will become the throughput bottleneck). Solana has an uphill battle to compete against next gen Ethereum L2s as they can be faster (and yes anyone in the research community does know that removing consensus message passing overhead means more bandwidth for execution) and cheaper. Current gen. L2s are already cheaper than Solana and next gen will be faster and cheaper, so what then is Solanas moat? If it's less secure, slower, and more expensive, then what moat does it have against competitors? I also have issue with the validator set on Solana as most of them are initially funded by the Solana foundation and their profitability is subsidized by token inflation and most validators are KYCed and/or are hosted in data centers. The initial token distribution was heavily concentrated and only 2% went to public sales and this makes it a poor choice for a reserve asset. I really don't know what the future of Solana is, but it for sure has captured an audience but tbd on if it's able to retain those users long term.

MaximumStudent1839

> this still provides an equal opportunity for anybody to be that first buy.  The opportunity is pretty slim for the average person if you don't run bots and understand the blockchain architecture well. > all trading bot users on an equal footing and all UI users on a level start too. That is not realistic. The very fact sandwiching MEV is big business in the industry should tell you enough.

Ch40440

Sending 1 ETH to a fuckin MEV bot scam 🤦🤦

Kavub

if I use leveraged swaps on a reverse perpetual inverted token delta with flash loan arbitrage against a cross-chain AMM loop, will the impermanent loss from the memetic yield farm affect my gas efficiency on L2, or should I just hodl my wrapped moonbags and let the MEV bots rebalance the liquidity pools?

foreycorf

- The quoted text I gave showed Ethereum is controlled by stakeholder vote both on-chain and off-chain. I understand DAOs are not the same as Ethereum layer 1 but the quote also specifically stated the layer 1 is controlled by stakeholders off-chain as well as the layer 2s and other major building blocks controlled with OCG. -Your point about obol and other initiatives like it is interesting but still doesn't address the point of the priority validator % revenue, MEV or who these DVs are actually registered to in order to obtain priority % revenue. Either way, whether they throw retail a bone multiple years later after centralized groups have already cemented themselves as majority control is really irrelevant, don't you think? It's still all a bit backwards compared to how the Bitcoin network has grown from a grassroots vs top-down perspective. -A 67% attack on Ethereum would slash millions of users funds. You would never have market confidence again. Also, you said it wouldn't work because they would decide to slash them and drop them from the network. Ignoring the catastrophic effects of that in general, the point that **some entity** would decide to slash and drop them in the event of 2/3 of validators going astray sure indicates a centralized governance at heart, doesn't it? -There is mining as a business and mining to support the network. They are not the same and just because you will not make money directly from mining on a small scale really has nothing to do with your ability to run both a full node and a home-miner without any barrier to entry. The same can not be said for ETH. ETH offers you the chance to make money *like* a validator while having none of the consensus, Bitcoin offers you the option to have consensus whether you make any money from it or not. This is a pattern I've noticed in a lot of your answers. You answer based on making money, not on a vision of truly decentralizing *finance*, as in you seem perfectly fine with centralized organizations controlling how and where you can make money or contribute to network security as long as you *can* make money. It's akin to a prison trustee who is willing to accept the crumbs the Warden throws on the ground because "hey, no one else is even getting crumbs!"

mikkeller

\- Bitcoin is far more "capturable" and in my opinion has a moderate probability of this happening - read the substack in my bio to understand this in more detail - but the TLDR; is that as block subsidy rewards halve and tend towards zero there won't be enough fees to cover mining operations and ordinals and runes are great and providing nice fees today but i'd argue that this isn't the way to build a sustainable onchain economy as Bitcoin lacks the expressivity to have true L2s and smart contracts (and right now it all uses some level of additional trust assumption) and even with OP\_CAT added you still have a very clunky version of the elements to construct a rudimentary version of trustless L2 and smart contact (or ZK settlement) but even then because Bitcoin can only process 4MB of data per every 10 minutes, then it's bottleneck quickly becomes its data availability and we go right back into the blocksize wars again if you want to have a sustainable Bitcoin.  So in this case you either fork bitcoin to make it more like ethereum, or you don't and then it's no longer profitable to mine bitcoin and it has to be mined at a loss and subsidized and it would most likely be subsidized by nation states and large corporations who are heavily allocated and building businesses on it, and at that stage this is the anthesis of Bitcoin because then mining is very centralized and loses it's ability to be censorship resistant. \- To address the JP Morgan and Blackrock "capture" can you be very explicit in what you mean by this because it lacks any hard substance. I know other than JP Morgan made investments into infrastructure businesses like Consensys and Blackrock who has an ETF product and has deployed a decentralized finance protocol on Ethereum called BUIDL which is a tokenized Tbill essentially (but this is bullish because they don't have any control over the protocol, they're using it just like any of us and deploying smart contacts). Can you be specific on what forms of capture or what you think is malicious that can happen here? \- Even entities like flashbots and other MEV based businesses can't censor blocks or produce an invalid state transition.  They are capturing value but then there is also likely to be MEV burn introduced which would burn a majority of that ETH, most of the MEV goes to the individual block proposer anyway as MEV searchers bid up their block ordering bundle to win the bid from other bundles and this is sub 10% but there are some issues and improvements to be made here which are being worked on.  Like multiple proposers and decentralized inclusion lists where the block builder can order the blocks however they like but they're forced to include all transactions in the pool list. Ultimately Ethereum has an ethos of being adaptive and a vision of making the substrate for the future global digital economy and is working to remove all currently obvious "hooks" that could centralize, censor, or disrupt the network. Please let me know if there's anything else I missed, these are all really good points you're bringing up and this is good discourse to have to correct any outdated information circulating.

foreycorf

"Ethereum governance happens off-chain with a wide variety of **stakeholders** involved in the process. Whilst at the protocol level Ethereum governance is off-chain, many use cases built on top of Ethereum, such as DAOs, use on-chain governance (stakeholder/governance token holder voting [parenthesis added by myself for clarity])." -Ethereum.org You said a lot of deflecting things, some of them more valid than others, but I'll touch on a few. -You don't run a validator by contributing 0.25eth in a cluster. You lock up your money with a centralized organization like Lido and *they* set up another validator that you, the poors, have pooled together to pay for. You get roughly the minimum validator % for your stake, meanwhile since all these validators are actually ran by Lido they get the 10% or whatever the high-end rewards are. Making a cool 5-6% extra (plus MEV bonuses!) from your money at little cost to themselves. Individuals who were fortunate enough to get in eth early and had the 32 required to start validating have shared the costs; you can set up an eth validator for $650 in PC parts+monthly cost of high bandwidth reliable data. Without the 120,000USD eth barrier, validating would be one of the most accessible forms of on-chain participation in the history of humanity. But they don't want *that* sort of decentralization now do they? -You mention the ethernodes data is off by a multiple of 3. Okay, that's fine, my point is that generally when you have data with thousands of data points (4100 or so), it's not going to be wildly different when the multiplication factor is as low as 3. If you interview 4000 random people, for instance, you won't find much difference in the ratio of answers if you interview 12000 people. -I don't mean running Bitcoin miners anonymously as in a person monitoring power and data usage couldn't identify it, I mean a person never has to share their identity to run a single miner. And if you are running a single high efficiency miner that's roughly only 3500kwh usage, it's...maskable on a small scale. However, you don't *need* to run a high efficiency miner btw. It is still entirely possible (though hugely improbable) to find a block running a few raspberry pis. Literally everyone in the world can participate in the Bitcoin network (though it might not be profitable without cutting edge hardware). The same thing is true for Bitcoin as Ethereum btw, you can run a node instead of a validator (or miner) and be involved in the way. -You mention you can't take over the network by an attack on Lido. You missed my point entirely. Though I would argue slashing a large portion of lido's eth in the event of a bad-actor would be catastrophic for the chain, that's not my point. My scenario was to infiltrate 3 top validators. And by that I don't mean to make them perform obvious malicious acts on the network, I mean for originations like J.P. Morgan or Blackrock to send advisors into these groups and steer them in the direction of doing the same things central banks have been doing to us for a century or so now. They're not leveraging MBS's or practicing insane usury on ETH (yet) but they're taking your money to collect MEVs, higher validator percentages and exercise more on-chain control than you will ever hope to have as an individual. The dream of crypto has never been to get rid of the old boss in order to have a new boss, and even if we did agree on a new boss we would never want them to be just like the old one. No matter how much you evade and try to put a good spin on it you can never get around the fact that ETH has been infiltrated by multinational corporations and institutions in a way they seemingly can't "get to" Bitcoin. It's not a good thing and anyone who cares about more than "dollar go up" ideologically can't agree with how Ethereum has changed (or maybe it was always like this and we were just blind for a while TBH). J.P. Morgan is "in on" ETH/metamask/infura/etc. They have been *forced* to buy Bitcoin out of sheer market capitulation to the monolith that is the Decentralized Daddy. There's a difference and it's important.

mikkeller

You mention "staking is a centralized way of governance" but for Ethereum, there is no on-chain governance. No amount of stake you have validating under its PoS design will give you any right to dictate any element of governance. Anyone is welcome to participate so long as they do the research to understand the discussions ppl are having and bring good ideas of their own. Also today you can stake in a completely decentralized way with a small fraction of a validator with clusters and when the amount of ETH required to run a validator drops to 1e, then through these same technologies ppl will be able to stake with fractions of 1e, so the bar is very low. Also you can still contribute and be a node without spending or holding any ETH, you just don't get to propose blocks. I would actually argue that Ethereum is more decentralized than Bitcoin, but I'll admit that it's still up in the air. But node counts reported on ethernodes are off by a factor of 3x imo. Many Ethereum nodes are not publicly visible because they operate in private networks or behind firewalls (e.g., private staking setups, private relays for MEV), or they use tools like VPNs, NAT traversal, or are restricted to specific whitelisted peers. Furthermore, 98% of all Bitcoin nodes run the same client where Ethereum has a very distributed set of clients which is an overlooked but important vector of decentralization. Also you mention running nodes anonymously but this is actually not possible. For one block times are way too slow and resource intensive to run over something like Tor plus with proof of work you have a literal electricity footprint unlike running PoS off a laptop. Even Ethereum can't run nodes fully anonymously yet however with the concept of “snarkifying everything”, real time ZK ASIC provers, along with statelessness and data sampling this is possible which make being an ethereum node lightweight enough to viably run a node through something like tor. Even if you were able to infiltrate Lido for example and try to do a takeover, it still runs less than 1/3 of validators and wouldn't bring down the network. Once an attack is perform on Ethereum, the attacking ETH is slashed and gone and you have to acquire more ETH or infiltrate the next big entity to do another attack. With PoW you can't delete someone mining rig so they can continue to attack. The community can do a soft fork to recover but the attack can just soft fork as well and continue the attack. Ethereum is actually designed to be much more resilient here.

oak1337

Buy something real for God sakes. Imagine investing in beanie babies! All roads lead to Hedera Hashgraph (HBAR). **Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

oak1337

Not at all. Hedera Hashgraph has been pumping. **Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

oak1337

Step one, go to your app store and download Hashpack. Step two, go to Coinbase or whatever your CEX is and buy HBAR. Step three, transfer HBAR to that wallet and stake to a node (liquid, no risk). **Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

oak1337

Hedera is superior to all. All roads lead to Hedera in the end. **Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

oak1337

You must learn what is King in crypto. Utility. Doge has no utility, Solana and Cardano have limited utilities, and XRP has one utility (banking). A coin which has every utility and is best in all aspects is Hedera HBAR. **Decentralized -** Equal consensus power among all nodes. Transparent and equal governance among all (up to) 39 GC members. Governance separate from consensus. Entire codebase is open source and was donated to the Linux Foundation **Fair -** Leaderless fair ordering. All transactions travel at exponential speed into the network, whoever reaches the majority first gets ordered first. No centralized "block leaders" who order your transactions. No MEV. No sniping trades. No bullshit. You'll soon learn ANY chain (99.99%) with a block leader is inferior to this model. **Fixed fees/Infinite Scalability -** Any chain (99.99%) that have their fees as a percentage of their coin price are inherently designed not to scale. This acts as a throttle to slow the network. Hedera is fixed fees priced in USD. It's the only chain actually designed to scale infinitely. **Security -** Asynchronous Byzantine Fault Tolerance is the highest security possible for a decentralized system. Hedera is the ONLY chain to achieve this highest possible form of security, and add in that it's SHA384 quantum proof. **True finality -** Most chains only reach Probabilistic Finality, meaning that they only become "more sure over time" (99% sure) that your transaction went through and is validated. Hedera comes to full consensus and reaches True Finality in under 3 seconds, meaning the transaction is 100% finalized. **Carbon negative -** Because Hashgraph is so efficient it uses the least amount of energy of any chain, and therefore has the lowest carbon footprint of any chain. Hedera then purchases carbon credits to make the network Carbon Negative. Greenest chain. I could go on but there's a good start for ya.

Bubbly_Scientist9984

While Ethereum is generally considered secure, several issues and risks can impact its security. These include: Smart Contract Vulnerabilities: Bugs and Flaws: Smart contracts are written in code, and like any software, they can contain bugs or vulnerabilities. For example, the infamous DAO hack in 2016 exploited a reentrancy vulnerability in a smart contract. Unintended Behavior: Poorly designed contracts might allow malicious actors to exploit unintended behaviors, such as draining funds from a contract. 51% Attacks: Although Ethereum currently uses proof-of-stake (PoS) after transitioning from proof-of-work (PoW), the possibility of a 51% attack still exists in PoS systems, especially if an attacker gains control of a significant portion of staked tokens. This could lead to network manipulation or double-spending. Phishing and Social Engineering: Users are often tricked into revealing private keys, seed phrases, or login credentials through phishing attacks or social engineering tactics. These attacks are not specific to the Ethereum network itself but are a broader issue for any cryptocurrency. Private Key Management: The security of Ethereum accounts relies heavily on how private keys are stored and managed. Loss of a private key can result in the loss of access to funds, and exposure of private keys can lead to theft. Scalability and Network Congestion: Although this is more of a performance issue, high congestion or spam attacks could lead to denial of service or security vulnerabilities. In the past, Ethereum has experienced network slowdowns during high demand periods (e.g., during ICOs or DeFi launches), which could make it easier for attackers to overwhelm the network. Front-running and Miner Extractable Value (MEV): Miners (or validators in PoS) can take advantage of knowledge of pending transactions to reorder, include, or exclude transactions for profit. This can lead to issues such as front-running, where an attacker submits a transaction to capture value before another transaction is processed. Decentralized Finance (DeFi) Risks: DeFi protocols built on Ethereum, while offering innovation, also introduce new security risks such as code exploits, Oracle manipulation, and liquidity pool vulnerabilities. Attacks on DeFi protocols have been numerous, with several high-profile hacks resulting in millions of dollars in stolen funds. Smart Contract Upgradability: Many Ethereum contracts allow for upgrades or modifications, which can introduce security risks if not managed properly. If an upgrade process isn't secure or well-governed, it could allow attackers to exploit weaknesses. Oracle Security: Ethereum often relies on oracles to bring real-world data (e.g., price feeds) into smart contracts. If an oracle is compromised, attackers could manipulate the data fed to smart contracts, potentially leading to fraudulent activities. Sybil Attacks: While Ethereum's PoS mechanism reduces the risk of Sybil attacks, they could still occur if an attacker is able to acquire a significant amount of staked ETH cheaply, allowing them to create a large number of fake identities and manipulate network consensus. These issues highlight that while Ethereum's underlying technology is generally robust, its decentralized nature and reliance on user interaction, smart contract code, and external factors (like oracles and DeFi protocols) introduce numerous security challenges.

Worth_Tip_7894

I somehow doubt running a sequencer is going to be within the reach of ordinary users, the hardware and connectivity is still likely to be out of reach and you will need a minimum stake in yet another token to even be approved. Sustainable operations are also still highly likely to require predatory MEV. The EVM/Account model was a great tech demonstration, but we need to move back to UTxO where parallel processing is the default and these types of scaling can be inherently decentralized.

Unlucky_Hearing5368

You know what annoys me the most about this discussion? Your inability to see the bigger picture and your confidence while completely misunderstanding fundamentals. If you can't grasp the crypto trilemma properly, why even argue about this topic? Let me break it down for you again, since this seems to be where you're stuck: Decentralization: You're overly fixated on the idea that running a node equates to 'real decentralization,' but that’s a narrow view. Decentralization is about distributing power and trus. Not just the technical ability to spin up a node. Hedera achieves this through its governance model, where no single entity has indefinite control, unlike anonymous miners or validators on other chains. Verifiability: You claim that without a personal node, you can’t trust the network. But that’s false. In Hedera, even if you’re not running a node, you can validate transactions through open APIs, cryptographic proofs, and third-party monitoring tools. Proxy staking allows participation without technical barriers, which is a huge advantage, not a flaw. MEV-Resistance & Efficiency: Hashgraph's asynchronous byzantine fault tolerance (aBFT) is mathematically proven to be the most secure and efficient consensus algorithm. It’s not just decentralized—it’s fairer and faster than traditional blockchain models. You dismiss these features without addressing their significance. As for your reference to the incident where proxies went offline, that happened when Hedera was still in its infancy. Networks evolve, and what was possible during early stages won’t necessarily apply as they scale. When mass adoption occurs, the ability to 'shut down' will no longer exist because the governance and node structure will scale alongside the adoption. But its hard for your brain to actually do some research and think for a bloody second. If your argument hinges on that single incident, I could point out far worse in other networks: Ethereum forks over bugs, Solana halting entirely, or Bitcoin's mining centralization. Does that mean these networks are scams too? Not according to you.

RefrigeratorLow1259

You believe this CNN? (Whoever they are) I'm not going to argue, but hydra heads on Cardano will do 1m tps to be settlled on the main chain, plus the ledger isn't stuck on a centralised Google cloud based service like you know who...Oh and you don't pay for failed Tx's, MEV bots etc...

Logical_Lemming

It's a combination of freshly issued ETH from inflation, transaction fees that people have paid, and MEV rewards (basically bribes that people pay to validators to have their transactions come before others) There's also a burn mechanism that balances or completely cancels out the inflation depending on how active the network is. See ultrasound.money

kb1985

Everyone bullish on ETH predicting 15k top and doubling the price in January like in previous cycles, so as a counterbalance couple of reasons to be bearish. L2 Fragmentation of Liquidity: Layer 2 solutions like Arbitrum and zkSync may capture activity and value, reducing direct benefits to ETH. Staked ETH Sell Pressure: Low staking yields and high concentration in protocols like Lido could trigger sell-offs in volatile conditions. App-Specific Chain Competition: Migration of projects to app-specific chains (e.g., Cosmos) reduces reliance on Ethereum. Lack of Bullish Narratives: No dominant driver like ICOs or NFTs has emerged to fuel new demand for ETH. Regulatory Risks: Staking rewards could face regulatory scrutiny, reducing staking appeal. Erosion of "Money Narrative": Stablecoins and activity moving to other chains diminish ETH’s settlement-layer role. Alternative L1 Competition: Chains like Solana and Avalanche may attract users and developers with faster, cheaper solutions. MEV Centralization: MEV profits often bypass ETH holders, limiting network-wide benefits. Weak Deflationary Effect: Low gas fees reduce the burn rate, weakening ETH’s deflationary thesis. Scaling Roadmap Delays: Technical challenges or delays in sharding could hinder Ethereum’s competitiveness. Retail Accessibility: Ethereum struggles to onboard retail users compared to lower-cost alternatives. Macro Challenges: Risk-off conditions and strong dollar dynamics could disproportionately impact ETH as a speculative asset.

oak1337

Just FYI, the white paper is old. That's the initial stage for any crypto, and they move on from there. Aside from that, yes, it's currently permissioned, and permissionless nodes are on the roadmap. But truly that doesn't matter, because they are "consensus nodes", not "validator nodes". There is no "block leader" or "weighted consensus". Each node is equal, and it is **leaderless fair ordering**. Each transaction moves at the same exponential speed into the network, and whoever reaches the majority of nodes first, is ordered first. No mempools. No MEV. No sniping trades, or paying more to get your transaction ordered first. Leaderless fair ordering. Add to this that network governance is completely separate from network consensus. Permissionless is on the way, but that is not the determining factor in decentralization. The entire codebase is open source and was donated to Linux Foundation.

HBAR_10_DOLLARS

$HBAR is the alt I am bullish on because they seem to be the clear leader for mass enterprise adoption of DLT, offering numerous technical and governance features the other networks simply cannot. They have already done more transactions than the rest of crypto combined with no downtime, no congestion, and non-fluctuating fixed USD fees. They are also formally verified to be aBFT secure (highest possible security for decentralized systems), as well as MEV resistant and real finality in 3 seconds (legal finality). Looks like it's ready to break out in a big way - already moved from rank 52 to 17 in a few weeks and I believe it’s headed for top 5 and will shock the crypto market because they don’t realize how much ground work has been laid for real mass enterprise adoption. I also believe it is one of the most decentralized networks in crypto. A governing council of up to 39 enterprises and organizations on different continents, under different governments, in different industries, all transparently known. Meeting minutes are published. Members are term limited. No single member can consolidate power. This is much more decentralized, secure, and collusion resistant than other crypto networks which are governed by anonymous whales, who are all in the same industry and can consolidate power over time by collecting more coins. Who is on the governing council? Google, Dell, abrdn (look them up), Australian Payments Plus (look them up too) etc. On the software development side, they are going for an open source meritocracy based development model and are the first L1 to submit their entire codebase to the Linux Foundation Decentralized Trust as founding members. If anyone has any questions or doubts about Hedera I would be happy to discuss.

HBAR_10_DOLLARS

$HBAR is the alt I am bullish on because they seem to be the clear leader for mass enterprise adoption of DLT, offering numerous technical and governance features the other networks simply cannot. They have already done more transactions than the rest of crypto combined with no downtime, no congestion, and non-fluctuating fixed USD fees. They are also formally verified to be aBFT secure (highest possible security for decentralized systems), as well as MEV resistant and real finality in 3 seconds (legal finality). Looks like it's ready to break out in a big way - already moved from rank 52 to 26 in a few days and is now rank 24. I believe it’s headed for top 5 and will shock the crypto market because they don’t realize how much ground work has been laid for real mass enterprise adoption. I also believe it is one of the most decentralized networks in crypto. A governing council of up to 39 enterprises and organizations on different continents, under different governments, in different industries, all transparently known. Meeting minutes are published. Members are term limited. No single member can consolidate power. This is much more decentralized, secure, and collusion resistant than other crypto networks which are governed by anonymous whales, who are all in the same industry and can consolidate power over time by collecting more coins. Who is on the governing council? Google, Dell, abrdn (look them up), Australian Payments Plus (look them up too) etc. On the software development side, they are going for an open source meritocracy based development model and are the first L1 to submit their entire codebase to the Linux Foundation Decentralized Trust as founding members. If anyone has any questions or doubts about Hedera I would be happy to discuss.

Virgine

Native dex. Which means very low and predictable fees. Plus MEV bot resistant since transaction order is randomized in each Block. You can't sandwich a transaction (in fact you can, but you have to be very Lucky to do so, thus not very lucrative, you lose money most of the time)