DLT

CleazyCatalystAD

You definitely seem to know your stuff and are very knowledgeable regarding DLT technology. I just liquidated some of my remaining Iota for Hedera. The security and network down issues with Solana have been well known by myself over the past few years, but what you stated about the network is concerning. A few SOL would get me a lot of HBAR atm. Most certainly looks like a good swap. Curious as to what you think of TAO, as I have been quite bullish on it the past year and think it has a bright future. Also, wondering if you have any other wild cards or sleeping giants. I’m going to give you a follow as well, if you are ok with that. Good chatting!

nablaca

No worries! Here to help people learn more about DLT's :). Yeah Iota is not the same as hedera. It's much different. But true it's also a DAG. Technically Hedera is indeed my number one, but marketing wise that is another story. Unfortunately. But It's a sleeping giant that is way underpriced compared to all the other networks. Hedera is like Amazon before it's time. It can handle millions of TPS and can scale like no other. All that with keeping the network aBFT which no other network has ever reached. Grats to Dr. Leemon Baird, who is the genius behind this technology. But is definitely not my only position. I have spread out my investments :). Idk why but indeed people seem to have the idea that hedera is centralized. Let me explain how they work: Hedera has a governing council and exists out of 39 huge cross industry companies (rotated every 3-6 years). They govern the network in a decentralised and transparent way to make sure the network gets the right updates it needs at that time. You can see this as a technocracy which is imo better than a democracy (experts>politicians). Since fake news is still around it is easy to manipulate people's thoughts. On most networks most issues or topics are discussed within a handful of developers. On chain voting sounds beautiful but then we get to that democracy problem again. What do people in the street actually know of a certain topic that is way too complex for them? Since their vote also counts as 1, that is dangerous imo. We see these beautiful improvement proposal systems on Ethereum and other networks. Hedera also has this and is a very good way to professionally interact with the governing council as a builder (in need).

HSuke

> History shows that EVENTUALLY the later wins. But it could take forever. Yep. I've been thinking about long-term improvement in DLT technology. Direct Bitcoin-forks usually don't differentiate themselves enough from Bitcoin to be successful price-wise. And they still inherit 90% of Bitcoin's flaws, so they're easily-surpassed technologically. **Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin** are better than Bitcoin, but they still got leapfrogged by newer blockchains. **Ethereum** was really bad too as a PoW blockchain, but because it constantly evolves, it's still competitive due to its L2s and constant evolution. Had it stopped evolving like Bitcoin, it would've been surpassed by faster networks like Solana years ago. **Solana** is faster than Ethereum and is a very fast L1. But it also gets congested and bloated. And trying to use its blockchain explorer is an absolute nightmare since 95% of its transactions are not real transactions but vote and cost-polling transactions. It's fine for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if advanced blockchains like **Sui or Aptos** leapfrog it over the next decade. And even advanced blockchains like Sui might be surpassed one day if it doesn't constantly improve.

CleazyCatalystAD

Good info, thank you. I thought Hedera was a bit centralized, but I do like DAGs in general. Invested in IOTA (that is DAG), and could have done well on it if I took profit at the right time. Now it’s withered away to basically nothing. Is Hedera your #1 pick for best DLT moving forward, then or are you more bullish/hopeful with a different network?

HSuke

Not even close. You guys still remember the blockchain trilemma? The most secure network is a permissioned DLT or one that uses Proof of Authority with trustworthy validators. It won't be censorship proof, but it will be secure. There will never never be any network less than one that directly uses AWS, Google Cloud, and Microsoft Azure. For blockchains, Hedera is about as close as you can get to a multi-institution Proof of Authority that votes on new trustworthy-members. For decentralized blockchains, Ethereum is the most secure.

nablaca

Yeah it is in a way. But it is technically so inefficient (code could have been made better). Cuz this network uses so much energy because all nodes are battling against each other. So many computers are trying to solve the block at the same time... From an efficiency perspective this is drama. A well designed network lets nodes collaborate instead of fighting. Because all we want to reach is a correct and fair order in transactions. That's it. That's basically what a DLT or server does. Solana has enormous safety issues. The network has a leader based consensus algorithm which creates single points of failure in the system. Also so many scams going on there it's crazy. This network doesn't have aBFT security level. Meaning banks will not risk to put their assets on such a network. Same goes for Ethereum, also leader based and not aBFT. Has huge scaling issues die to TXN fees. Imo dead in the water. Sui seems to be a bit more promising true, have to dig deeper in that white paper to give an opinion. But I believe Hedera has state of the art technology under their hood, they have aBFT security grade and makes nodes collaborate on consensus instead of fighting. It's not a blockchain but a DAG. Fundamentally different. Look it up on YouTube (Leemon Baird video's), they explain so much about DLT's

nablaca

Putting that much % on a speculative asset that only has one single use case is a bit nuts IMO. (99% bitcoin holders also don't know anything about DLT'S and have never even heard of that name). I compare it with Nokia, the big boss back in the day, now new generations doesn't even know what Nokia is. I'd put more eggs on a network that aims for enterprises or B2B (Amazon like companies). Because the tech will become an important part of their digital workflow and therefore becomes valuable. Also stable monthly demand for the token will be created as well.

CleazyCatalystAD

Probably not. I have a DLT index fund I have assembled over the years, but have learned to keep around 75% in BTC.

nablaca

I started in btc but moved on I probably know more about DLT's then you :)

HSuke

SUI has been on an inexplicable uptrend, even vs Aptos its twin DLT that was split from Facebook's Diem project. Solana might not even reach Ethereum killer status if it gets upended by SUI in the enterprise sector.

Known_Syllabub_8334

Moving away from cexes and evm/messaging based chains was the best decision I made with regards to safety. Chains like Radix DLT have implemented native assets and outcomes of transactions built into the ledger and in a human readable form.

BlackjointnerD

"Chainlink is exclusive with swift" - Juststoppingbye "We are agnostic and compatible with all blockchain DLT technology" - Swift

Chris_Kaia

A joint governance proposal was uploaded for voting by both Finschia and Klaytn's governance bodies, you can see them here: [FGP-26 for Finschia](https://medium.com/lineblockchain/fgp-23-finschia-x-klaytn-mainnet-merge-5c429e69d265) [KGP-26 for Klaytn](https://govforum.kaia.io/t/kgp-26-dragon-defi-initiative-d2i-crafting-the-core-of-project-dragon-s-defi-ecosystem/730/14?u=kf_defi) And yes, there was a merging of the two teams, I wouldn't call us corporate entities but we did incorporate a new Kaia DLT Foundation in Abu Dhabi Global Market (ADGM) which comprises members from both Klaytn Foundation and Finschia Foundation.

dunnkw

Sounds like he knows DLT and Blockchain like the back of his hand! I’m giving him *ALL* my money! He dresses *WAY* nicer than SBF and that’s how you know how to trust someone with all your money. They dress nice and they have concepts of a strong business plan!

talesofbeem

Hey there, due to technical limitations, Firefox is on the backburner as Radix DLT extension currently only supports chrome. If there is sufficient user base, I am sure the core team of the network will look into implementing, I would look into it as well. Im an avid user of Firefox myself so I can't wait for it!

Lemon_Club

Russia is experimenting with crypto and DLT for cross border payments, but yeah they're still against citizens holding and using crypto domestically.

Original-Assistant-8

Not really sure, mostly caught my eye because of a bank, using DLT, and upgrading to post quantum cryptography, which NIST says companies should be working on immediately.

Original-Assistant-8

So I guess buying a gold token through HSBC is like buying btc through an etf? I'm not sure how they are using DLT

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Ripple, Hedera, and Aptos Labs have launched the MiCA Crypto Alliance to enhance compliance with EU crypto asset regulations. As founding members of the DLT Science Foundation, they aim to foster cooperation among firms navigating the EU's regulatory landscape. The alliance focuses on promoting blockchain technology adoption and ensuring compliance with strict disclosure requirements for Crypto-Asset Service Providers. This initiative seeks to create an open ecosystem involving industry, academia, and developer communities. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

btc_clueless

Kraken has changed its way of how to deal with German customers. Instead of serving them directly, they now go through an intermediate DLT Securities GmbH and DLT Custody GmbH for their crypto services to German clients ([https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/overview-of-changes-for-german-clients](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/overview-of-changes-for-german-clients)). These German companies don't offer the whole range of services previously provided by Kraken. Among others, a whole bunch of coins were delisted as well: [https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/asset-support-for-german-clients](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/asset-support-for-german-clients) Fun fact: Moons also got delisted by Kraken Germany.

HSuke

Protocol-wise, Kaspa's BlockDAG-type DLT (not to be confused with the scam blockchain with the same name of "BlockDAG") is top-tier among non-smart contract Proof of Work DLTs. So it's way better than any Bitcoin fork, but that's as far as it goes. It's still worse than most PoS blockchains and currently does not support smart contracts. (KRC20 is not a native protocol-level smart contract). As an analogy, if Kaspa were a vehicle, it would be a 1980s car compared to the "Bitcoin" Model T and compared to newer "PoS" modern cars with built-in smart technology and driving assistance.

T2000-TT

You can’t make a horsed cart go faster than 70km/h, they have been around for X years and no one did. That’s the point, you invent something else, like a car. You have to change the foundation structure. For L1 you have to move away from Blockchain and explore others DLT possibilities Keep digging sir, it WILL happen : https://x.com/fuserleer/status/1834332685721829647

PM_ME_UR_AMOUR

Kraken, in Europe, officially switching to DLT finances.

Adventurous_Meat4582

Lol did you read the article you sent me?: 'Our next set of industry experiments is designed to show how Swift’s infrastructure can be leveraged to facilitate interoperability, enabling tokenised value to be transferred between existing systems and both public and private DLT platforms with existing connectivity, standards, and messaging'. They are interfacing with external block chains with existing infrastructure, not using them themselves. There is no tech advantage of adding the additional complexity of block chain over a streamlined private system except for maybe redundancy but at a large efficiency cost. Where are all the corporate blockchains?

Longjumping-Bonus723

If you actually take your time and read about the projects that are being build on Hedera while actually understanding it's absolute Bitcoin season right now. You will become a HBAR fan. There is no more secure and efficient blockchain/DLT/DAG/whatever around ;-)

SorenLundt

IOTA, here are some recent developments: * The IOTA Foundation has successfully completed the final phase of the European Blockchain Pre-Commercial Procurement. Alongside our fellow finalists Chromaway and Billon, we've developed pre-commercial products for Intellectual Property Rights Management and Digital Product Passports, demonstrating scalability and sustainability. We are now in conversations with commercial partners to further support and drive this important European initiative in its new governance form as EUROPEUM-EDIC. * IOTA and Eviden are partnering on the Eviden Digital Passport Solution (EDPS), one of the first Digital Product Passports to hit the market. EDPS tracks the lifecycle, carbon footprint, and sustainability of automotive batteries using IOTA technology. This partnership aims to scale up the solution for various DPP use cases, fostering long-term collaboration and expertise in DLT, while exploring new applications for IOTA’s technology in areas like global digital trade, Self-Sovereign Identity, and data monetization. * The Trade and Logistics Information Pipeline (TLIP), utilizing IOTA technology, aims to streamline EU-UK trade by enabling real-time data sharing and reducing administrative overhead. A pilot study with Mobius Technology shows TLIP's potential in enhancing efficiency and compliance, particularly for perishable goods. TLIP promotes interoperability and trust, promising a more efficient and compliant trade process. * The IOTA Ecosystem DLT Foundation is based in the Abu Dhabi Global Market (ADGM) in the United Arab Emirates. Its purpose is to support and promote the IOTA and Shimmer ecosystem and the adoption of IOTA and Shimmer in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia, by providing funding and support to projects, driving utility to our base layer through RWA tokenization. As such, it will support local growth and regional activities by growing awareness around DLT, IOTA, and our ecosystem; onboarding, supporting, and funding builders and developers; supporting integrations, partnerships, and ecosystem adoption; and introducing DLT public infrastructure.

Miadas20

Private permissioned ledgers like R3 corda, hyperleder besu, jpm quorum and others. The point is likely tradfi will use whatever permissioned ledger works for them that follows the same SATP protocol so that they can interoperate with everyone else's DLT's. Overledger is the operating system to orchestrate the communication between the different ledgers and not a ledger itself. It will facilitate the transaction of the data between them.

ellileon

Its the worst decision kraken pulled off...they are annoying me the last 3 month about this whole DLT shit and warning me about my account getting restricted. Fine - i will just use Binance for onramp. Its faster and easier anyway.

xallaboutx

German clients who wish to continue using crypto and fiat (bank deposits and withdrawals) services will be required to consent to Payward Ireland Limited and **DLT Finance** processing their personal data for the purpose of complying with GDPR. As a legal requirement, clients will need to re-verify their identity. German clients who have provided consent will be able to continue using Kraken services with no interruption. On August 19, 2024, your legal counterparties will become Payward Ireland Limited and **DLT Finance**. Based on your consent, we will share account information after the re-verification process. Client crypto and fiat assets will be safely held in **DLT Custody GmbH** and Payward Ireland Limited accounts, respectively. [https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/overview-of-changes-for-german-clients](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/overview-of-changes-for-german-clients)

Every_Hunt_160

Clearly because this DLT company offered Kraken the most money to partner with them. Why else would they choose a shady, unregulated entity over a licensed one?

nazuralift89

What's DLT?

Dsingis

Kraken Germany switched to some kind of new service provider. At first I was like "oh okay" and submitted new KYC too, but when I read up on what kind of data they exactly hand over to some kind of 3rd party, I contacted the support, withdrew my consent to share my data with DLT and requested to close my account. Guess how long that took? Over a month after I created the ticket. And you know why it only took one month? Because after I contacted their support a million times, I went to their support subreddit and posted a request to close my account, which was then done within a couple hours. You're better off getting a response on their subreddt, than their actual support hub.

riclas

yes, DLT is a german licensed broker

ForsakenEbb287

Of course its a German regulation issue. Kraken has a new service provider in Germany with a BAFIN licence (DLT Finance), so each German customer has to pass a new KYC process - me, too without any problems. Please, do not give up, Krakens support is the best in crypto, but if you will not pass their new KYC they will have no choice: they will urge you to withdraw your funds and shutdown your account due to regulation requirements.

DAMG808

What i dont get is, why DLT? I left Kraken and transferred everything to an exchange that holds a official BaFin License in Germany and it works without all this BS Kraken wants to know. Why should i tell them where i work, what i eat, what i pay for rent and insurances, medical bills ….makes no sense and is not of their business. And cherry on top is everything is held by a shady company like DLT outside of Germany. Biggest mistake kraken ever pulled off. Byebye.

ravenofiridescence

i've read a bit about this on a german forum and other people were having similar issues. everything's chaotic over at kraken right now because of this, but it doesn't have much to do with kraken as such, but rather with the fact they decided to partner with some new, unknown company "DLT" to handle all transactions for german customers. so from here on out, it will be DLT who holds your crypto etc.. there've been numerous reports of customers not being able to verify because the button doesn't work correctly, of sending in documents without hearing back for weeks, etc.. check the blocktrainer forums for this. kraken should have gotten a proper license for germany instead of partnering with some shady company, that would have allowed them to do everything in an orderly and controlled fashion instead of having this turned into an utter mess. i just wanted to say this because the title is a bit misleadning. this is not neccessarily a kraken problem, but i would think this is rather a "kraken for german customers" problem.

5p1tf1r3

Radix DLT (XRD). Tech is very promising, current price entry is cheap and the wallet experience is unlike anything else that I've ever tried. Also has some original dapps such as [IN:DE Comics](https://www.indeapp.xyz/) running on it already and more are getting implemented such as this mobile game called [Strangers](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.moxstd.strangers).

Stabenz

It is not too late. I would put all you have left on a good utility coin you can believe in like Hedera or XRP. I personally like @HbarSuite on the Hedera DLT.

HBAR_10_DOLLARS

https://x.com/hedera/status/1815046579549589992?s=46 Upcoming session, @chainlink: 🇭🇰 Hong Kong | Aug 2 | 3-6PM HKT "Unlocking Innovations and Maximizing #Web3 Technology" Connect with and hear from industry leaders driving the transformation of traditional finance through innovative applications of #DLT, featuring representatives from @chainlinklabs, @awscloud, and @The_Hashgraph.

HBAR_10_DOLLARS

https://x.com/hedera/status/1815046579549589992?s=46 Upcoming session, @chainlink: 🇭🇰 Hong Kong | Aug 2 | 3-6PM HKT "Unlocking Innovations and Maximizing #Web3 Technology" Connect with and hear from industry leaders driving the transformation of traditional finance through innovative applications of #DLT, featuring representatives from @chainlinklabs, @awscloud, and @The_Hashgraph.

Abanikandy

I smell a larp because I know I wouldn’t spend time on this app had I made it but you do you man. Do me a favor and watch any of these “The Future Is ON” segments on Chainlink YouTube channel. These people aren’t grifting, they work at the biggest FIs in the world. This isn’t 2010-2016 anymore. The coke you bought on Silk Road wasn’t the peak usecase of DLT.

JelleFm

TL;DR Eviden, a company with a yearly revenue of €5b, announces their Digital Passport Solution in collaboration with the IOTA Foundation and powered by IOTA technology. This is one of the first ready-to-use Blockchain-based Digital Product Passports (DPPs) on the market and the first of its scale to use IOTA’s technology as its Blockchain engine. This new EDPS can be used for a wide range of products across various industries, such as manufacturing, automotive, fashion and textiles, and food and beverages. It can also be used for many other cross-industry use cases such as a Media Passport for example which protects intellectual property, or a Logistic Product Passport which enables transparent documentation and reliable track & trace capabilities. "Together with the IOTA Foundation, we are proud to announce this unique partnership and to launch a joint production-ready blockchain-based Digital Passport solution, ‘powered by IOTA’, which is aligned and in full compliance with the EU legal framework. Not only does IOTA’s DLT provide efficiency gains over traditional ways of interacting but more importantly this decentralized, transparent, and incorruptible technology creates an open, fair and secure infrastructure which builds trust” - Udo Littke, Head of Eviden Central Europe

Minute-Seesaw205

Who says you can’t? What you have to understand is that financial institutions were never going anywhere. They will and are involving themselves with Blockchain/DLT.

Abanikandy

Intense cope here. Experiments and POCs are last cycle, they haven’t sniffed production because it’s outdated tech, there’s not even Smart contract capability on XRPL. No one will adopt that. And funny you bring up DTCC. Search “DTCC Smart NAV” and find out actually exciting DLT tech in 2024

cryptoAccount0

Lots of people hold their crypto on exchanges and effectively use exchanges as banks. Shouldn't those funds be fdic insured? We know better, but there are a lot of people that don't value self custody as highly as we do. Crypto can't live in a bubble if it's going to truly be adopted. Plus at the end of the day, it's tech. Institutions will use as they see fit. There's no point in kicking and screaming and being ideological about these things. One of the things I hate about this space is the cult like groups that have formed. It's technology, not a religion. An institution will have the capital and the means to make it more accessible to the consumer. If they do it on a DLT, ideally, their actions will be easily monitored. So I welcome them, and I hope congress forces them to use public blockchains so everyone can audit their movements.

rsa121717

The basis for most “AI” projects is really just computation power. Hardly an innovation on DLT imo but claiming its special then throwing a buzzword onto it seems to convince the media enough

Aconyminomicon

Lol wow over 200k crypto Tx's, wow you must be so smart, now I know your too young to give advice so thanks but no thanks. I don't need the help of some liar. If you are so retired then what are you doing on here "helping me" huh? Its in your username. "Degenerate" was never used back in the days of mt gox and local bitcoins. I used to drive to a bank and deposit cash into someone's account and then come back and upload proof just to buy bitcoins while you were still sucking on some titties that were definitely related to you. If you want to act all high and mighty guy, go ahead and please tell me the difference between a DAG, Blockchain, PoS, PPoW, gossip about gossip protocols on hashgraph ledgers or anything relevant to DLT? Go ahead and chat gpt all that up because I can tell a liar when I read one.

tim3k

It is not just a re-verification process though. It is an asset transfer (in addition to all of your transaction data) to some no name company called DLT Finance, that you are basically forced to agree on. I mean, seriously, check their web-site. [dlt-finance.com](http://dlt-finance.com) Would you voluntary send this company anything more that a few bucks?

Negative_Rip_2372

Liebe deutsche Kraken-Nutzer, ich bin betroffen von der vorzeitigen Schließung von Positionen bei der Migration zu DLT Finance und erwäge eine Sammelklage gegen Kraken. Wenn Sie ähnliche Probleme hatten und an einer gemeinsamen rechtlichen Vorgehensweise interessiert sind, melden Sie sich bitte bei mir. Ihre Teilnahme könnte helfen, unsere Chancen auf Wiedergutmachung zu erhöhen. Mit freundliche Grüßen, SK Dear German Kraken Users, I am affected by the premature closure of positions during the migration to DLT Finance and am considering a class action lawsuit against Kraken. If you have experienced similar issues and are interested in a collective legal approach, please contact me. Your participation could increase our chances of obtaining compensation. Best Regards, SK

Negative_Rip_2372

Liebe deutsche Kraken-Nutzer, ich bin betroffen von der vorzeitigen Schließung von Positionen bei der Migration zu DLT Finance und erwäge eine Sammelklage gegen Kraken. Wenn Sie ähnliche Probleme hatten und an einer gemeinsamen rechtlichen Vorgehensweise interessiert sind, melden Sie sich bitte bei mir. Ihre Teilnahme könnte helfen, unsere Chancen auf Wiedergutmachung zu erhöhen. Mit freundliche Grüßen, SK Dear German Kraken Users, I am affected by the premature closure of positions during the migration to DLT Finance and am considering a class action lawsuit against Kraken. If you have experienced similar issues and are interested in a collective legal approach, please contact me. Your participation could increase our chances of obtaining compensation. Best Regards, SK

Negative_Rip_2372

Liebe deutsche Kraken-Nutzer, ich bin betroffen von der vorzeitigen Schließung von Positionen bei der Migration zu DLT Finance und erwäge eine Sammelklage gegen Kraken. Wenn Sie ähnliche Probleme hatten und an einer gemeinsamen rechtlichen Vorgehensweise interessiert sind, melden Sie sich bitte bei mir. Ihre Teilnahme könnte helfen, unsere Chancen auf Wiedergutmachung zu erhöhen. Mit freundliche Grüßen, SK Dear German Kraken Users, I am affected by the premature closure of positions during the migration to DLT Finance and am considering a class action lawsuit against Kraken. If you have experienced similar issues and are interested in a collective legal approach, please contact me. Your participation could increase our chances of obtaining compensation. Best Regards, SK

Negative_Rip_2372

Liebe deutsche Kraken-Nutzer, ich bin betroffen von der vorzeitigen Schließung von Positionen bei der Migration zu DLT Finance und erwäge eine Sammelklage gegen Kraken. Wenn Sie ähnliche Probleme hatten und an einer gemeinsamen rechtlichen Vorgehensweise interessiert sind, melden Sie sich bitte bei mir. Ihre Teilnahme könnte helfen, unsere Chancen auf Wiedergutmachung zu erhöhen. Mit freundliche Grüßen, SK Dear German Kraken Users, I am affected by the premature closure of positions during the migration to DLT Finance and am considering a class action lawsuit against Kraken. If you have experienced similar issues and are interested in a collective legal approach, please contact me. Your participation could increase our chances of obtaining compensation. Best Regards, SK

Negative_Rip_2372

Liebe deutsche Kraken-Nutzer, ich bin betroffen von der vorzeitigen Schließung von Positionen bei der Migration zu DLT Finance und erwäge eine Sammelklage gegen Kraken. Wenn Sie ähnliche Probleme hatten und an einer gemeinsamen rechtlichen Vorgehensweise interessiert sind, melden Sie sich bitte bei mir. Ihre Teilnahme könnte helfen, unsere Chancen auf Wiedergutmachung zu erhöhen. Mit freundliche Grüßen, SK Dear German Kraken Users, I am affected by the premature closure of positions during the migration to DLT Finance and am considering a class action lawsuit against Kraken. If you have experienced similar issues and are interested in a collective legal approach, please contact me. Your participation could increase our chances of obtaining compensation. Best Regards, SK

Final_Paladin

I just moved the rest of my assets on Kraken to a hardware wallet. Not sure, if this would be possible after 4th July without re-verification. I might re-verify later. But also I will sign up to some new exchanges. In other threads on reddit I read some rather concerning things about DLT Finance (that it might be a "Briefkasten Firma" and that people could not find it listed on the BaFin website as it should be). I really hope, everything is legit, and that Kraken will improve its communication here. Until now I was always feeling well and safe with Kraken. But this is just not handled properly (also too quick).

I_am_not_doing_this

hey pluto why do you hate german customers so much? Can you stop partnering with DLT or wtf that is

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Hedera Pro-Arguments Below is a Hedera pro-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** Hedera is governed by a permissioned council of 26 (up to 39) companies. It was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > I had to dig pretty hard to find Pros arguments for Hedera. > > **High performance** > > - Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is very fast. > - Hedera [was a 10 TPS smart contract network](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), but that changed after Smart Contracts 2.0 and Hedera Token Service were released in early 2022. Its network is currently not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS with [smart contract transactions throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Theoretically, that is very fast, but keep in mind that we don't have any real metrics of what Hedera's network would look like under full DeFi load. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1 depending on the contract, but that's still cheaper than Ethereum (as long as the Hedera network is being subsidized by high inflation). > - Hedera has [extremely low energy consumption](https://hedera.com/blog/power-transition-blockchain-sustainability-hedera-hashgraph), using up ~1% of the energy consumption of the average US household. > > **Strong niche following** > > - Hedera is a **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA) network. It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council members each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - The concept of being controlled by a conglomerate of tech companies clashes with the cypherpunk movement. **However, Hedera supporters truly believe that this is the ideal decentralized network because they believe a > consortium of publicly-known companies will never collude and misbehave, risking damage to reputation.** There aren't many PoA networks of this design, so it barely has any direct competitors. It has cornered this niche market. After visiting the Hedera sub, it is evident that they truly love their network and will defend it to the bone. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

Mr-Douglas

Kraken was the best. Till Mica comes across Europe. Now german customers kicked out to DLT Finance and have to do again KYC

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Hedera Pro-Arguments Below is a Hedera pro-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** Hedera is governed by a permissioned council of 26 (up to 39) companies. It was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > I had to dig pretty hard to find Pros arguments for Hedera. > > **High performance** > > - Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is very fast. > - Hedera [was a 10 TPS smart contract network](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), but that changed after Smart Contracts 2.0 and Hedera Token Service were released in early 2022. Its network is currently not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS with [smart contract transactions throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Theoretically, that is very fast, but keep in mind that we don't have any real metrics of what Hedera's network would look like under full DeFi load. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1 depending on the contract, but that's still cheaper than Ethereum (as long as the Hedera network is being subsidized by high inflation). > - Hedera has [extremely low energy consumption](https://hedera.com/blog/power-transition-blockchain-sustainability-hedera-hashgraph), using up ~1% of the energy consumption of the average US household. > > **Strong niche following** > > - Hedera is a **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA) network. It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council members each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - The concept of being controlled by a conglomerate of tech companies clashes with the cypherpunk movement. **However, Hedera supporters truly believe that this is the ideal decentralized network because they believe a > consortium of publicly-known companies will never collude and misbehave, risking damage to reputation.** There aren't many PoA networks of this design, so it barely has any direct competitors. It has cornered this niche market. After visiting the Hedera sub, it is evident that they truly love their network and will defend it to the bone. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

HSuke

> Security in DLT usually means safety+liveness Oh good catch. I got 'safety' and 'security' mixed up. > About the economy of scale, high BPS is also the answer. That's a good point. High BPS would solve the jackpot problem and the biggest reason for pools. ------------ I often feel like Bitcoin is holding back the rest of the crypto development and progress. It's like the giant sequoia tree that's blocking out sun and resources needed for newer plants to grow. I appreciate it for bringing cryptocurrencies into the world, but I think if it were to disappear now, the future for the world would be better since that would allow newer cryptocurrencies with better protocols to flourish. First mover advantage is such a hard obstacle to overcome. How do smaller communities fight against this narrative? Even /r/CryptoCurrency is slowly becoming ossified against altcoins that are not BTC or ETH. I see plenty of genuine altcoin threads where the poster is quickly labeled a shill, and it's a shame this is happening.

deshe

> "Security threshold" has a rather specific definition for PoS DLTs. It usually means the % of stake the attacker needs in order to finalize valid blocks against the will of honest validators (e.g. for court-ruled censorship). This could also allow them to reorg the network for the blockchains that allow for it. Security in DLT usually means safety+liveness. A 51% attacker can I definitely stall the network without consequence, hence the network has no liveness whereby no security. I agree the safety threshold is higher in PoS, but this isn't necessarily a good thing, exactly because it makes liveness attacks easier. > But this doesn't mean that larger staking pools have a tendency to get larger over time. It does. PoS has a rich-get-richet dynamic which is a huge problem. > Most of the large PoW and PoS networks have been actively trying to break up their largest staking pools or decentralize them with a DAO. The main things stopping them are economies of scale. My opinions is that this is a fool's errand. Best thing you can do is make pool foulplay quickly noticable by high BPS. This is very well motivated game theoretically, since foulplay necessarily means reduced profit for pool users  About the economy of scale, high BPS is also the answer. While ASICs are indeed an economy of scale, you can argue that the block delay is a linear factor of this scale (essentially because having X times higher BPS means a miner needs X times smaller fraction of the global hashrate to see the same amount of blocks), so I consider high BPS a solution to this as well  > it's easier to be a small solo staker (smaller ongoing cost, and many protocols pay out small amounts just for validating) than it is to be a small solo miner (requires winning the lottery) Again, I do not believe this is true due to high BPS. Bitcoin can accommodate 144 solo miners/pools with daily revenue, 10BPS Kaspa can accommodate 864000 such miners. Some evidence that this dynamic translates to real economy is that even though there are very large Kaspa ASICs available, the smallest one is still the best selling unit. The high BPS creates demand for small machines by decentralizing mining, and that's when the mainnet is running on 10BPS and the total Capex is bearing half a billion dollars. A single KS0 costs less than 500$ and is currently enough to solo mine a weekly block on average.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Morpheus.Network, a Canadian company specializing in supply chain management and blockchain technology, has been selected to join the second cohort of the European Blockchain Sandbox (EBSI). In partnership with ReLOG3P, an Italian startup, Morpheus.Network aims to support the UN Agenda 2030 and the EU’s sustainability goals by creating a fully automated certificate management system. This system, utilizing distributed ledger technology (DLT), will replace manual processes with digital solutions to ensure trust in certificates and verifiable data for fair trade and sustainability standards. The initiative is designed to enhance supply chain transparency, efficiency, and compliance, supporting sustainability and compliance initiatives. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

HolidayAnything8687

Hbar will only moon if enterprise level businesses use it as a DLT. If enterprise doesn’t take off, the coin is kinda just gonna die out. It’s my 3rd biggest holding after btc/eth because i’m betting on enterprise crypto adoption in the next decade, but it could totally just not happen if it’s not profitable/worth it for large companies to use it.

deshe

--- PART 4 --- Finality Shorter finality is better. "Most PoW consensus protocols allow for reorgs and only have probabilistic finality. Many PoS consensus protocols have instant finality, while others have a hybrid finality that allow reorgs up to a certain depths limit. However, this will be different for every blockchain/DLT." You mean deterministic finality, instant finality is something else. One thing you have to understand is that there isn't really such a thing as deterministic finality. You can buy the best safe in the world, and I would still have a minuscule chance to correctly guess your combination. In cryptography, we always have some confidence parameter. The security of PoW bounds the probability that a reorg can happen the same way that a cryptographer chooses the size of the key space. Saying that a PoW chain has "finality" means that the probability of a reorg vanishes exponentially fast as a function of time. Saying it has "instant finality" means that the coefficient of the exponent becomes smaller as the network latency does. "PoW mining pool protocols provide no protection or detection against withholding attacks, which are the most common type of 51% attacks. An attacker can even execute one with well under 50% of the network hash rate due to selfish mining." Selfish mining does not mean that an attacker can revert with less than 50% of the hash rate. That's a common misconception. Selfish mining is an attack on another property called "chain quality". It essentially means that large miners can mine more blocks than represented by the fraction of the hashrate. In theory, a 34% attacker can mine more than 50% of the blocks. So why is this not a double spend attack? Because the attack necessarily piggybacks on honest blocks, so it can't reorg them out. Interestingly, a selfish mining attack is quite measurable. The attack requires the attacker to post two successive valid blocks at the exact same time. Afaik, no selfish mining attacks on Bitcoin were ever recorded. Selfish mining attacks on Kaspa are extremely complicated and very unprofitable. "In general, it's so hard to attack PoS that the only times we've ever seen it happen are due to accidental client bugs." "Accidental client bugs" are an extremely huge concern, it is very baffling that you would downplay them this much. Proof-of-stake typically has an extremely intricate structure that is very hard to solidify. Exploits are a huge concern, and a very reasonable criticism of PoS.

HSuke

**Smart Contracts**: Looking at [their roadmap](https://kaspa.org/the-kaspa-community-and-the-exploration-of-smart-contracts/), native smart contracts is very hard to accomplish. It would require re-writing the entire code base. The other option of making Kaspa a sequencer with Ethereum as the settlement layer is much easier to accomplish. But then why use Kaspa in the first place if you're just going to convert it to an Ethereum L2 rollup/sidechain? Would the community be fine with that? **Finality vs Confirmations** I noticed the Kaspa website mentions instant finality. That's incorrect. I'm not sure why it hasn't been corrected. Confirmations on Kaspa are very fast (1-2s average according to the [Block Explorer](https://explorer.kaspa.org/)). But confirmations are not the same as finality. Finality is the amount of time one should wait before being confident a transaction or block will not reorg. In GHOST consensus, blocks can reorg. GHOSTDAG doesn't allow blocks to reorg, but individual transactions that are conflicting can reorg. It's possible to turn a red block into a blue block. And it's possible for an attacker (either malicious or an honest one that has slow network connection) to send conflicting transactions simultaneously to nodes building on 2 different blocks. Time to finality depends on many factors. The more secure the consensus protocol, the shorter the finality time. The video mentions at 1:12:00 that Kaspa needs (k + n) confirmations for an equivalent block security to Bitcoin. Around 1:12:45 in the video, Wyborski mentions roughly 50 confirmations are needed for high-value transactions and ~10 confirmations for low-value transactions. That's with 10s blocks (8 min finality). With 2s blocks, I'd expect it to be 5x that number (or maybe it's the sqrt(5)). But I'm not 100% certain on this because the exact formula for k and finality are not mentioned in the video or whitepaper. The indirect formulas used to calculate k are way beyond calculus and too advanced for me to understand. ##**PoW vs PoS** There are only 3 main types of consensus attacks: * reorgs - cause blocks or transactions to revert * censorship - block transactions * cause grief - no purpose other than to cause chaos For both PoW and PoS, attacks can't be used to steal crypto or spend crypto that is not owned by the attacker since valid transaction signatures are still necessary, and nodes check that. The most dangerous type of attack are double-spends related to reorgs. Nodes sometimes check for double-spends, but miners and validators are usually forced to allow them as long as they don't break consensus. PoS solves a very important security risk of PoW, which is that PoW attackers do not have anything at stake when they attack. If 2 different blockchains mine using the SHA256 algorithm, miners from the larger blockchain can switch over to the smaller blockchain, attack it at only the cost of electricity. It would be a trivial attack. This has happened many, many times before, which is why PoW is only as secure as its energy security budget. In addition, the mining budget is usually many orders of magnitude smaller than the value of the blockchain. So there is an economic incentive to spend a small amount to steal a larger amount. Miners don't necessarily hold much the cryptocurrency, so they lose very little attacking it. Griefing attacks are extremely common during blockchain wars. Ethereum PoW and Bitcoin SV were successfully many times in a single year. For PoS, attacking the network requires the attacker to hold the native currency of the network. So if they attack, it hurts themselves. There is little economic incentive to attack a PoS network. Nearly all PoS networks have a liveness threshold under 33%, and security threshold over 67%. Which means that if an attack happened, it would likely first trigger the liveness threshold and cause the network to stop running (or stop finality) well before security failed. > I find intuitively it makes more sense that PoW is more secure because anyone get electricity to become a miner, but not everyone can get the coins, making PoS veer towards something insular. That actually makes PoS much more secure. An attacker would have to spend an increasing amount of money trying to buy up more tokens to attack the network. The more the attacker buys, the more the price is driven up. And current holders of the token wouldn't attack themselves. It's suicidal. **Finality** Shorter finality is better. Most PoW consensus protocols allow for reorgs and only have probabilistic finality. Many PoS consensus protocols have instant finality, while others have a hybrid finality that allow reorgs up to a certain depths limit. However, this will be different for every blockchain/DLT. **Mining and Staking Pools** This is a complex topic and the biggest risk equally to both PoW and PoS. The big caveat is that for both PoW and PoS attacks, the attacker greatly benefits if mining/staking pools are used, because then they're not risking their own assets. Current PoW mining pool protocols provide no protection or detection against withholding attacks, which are the most common type of 51% attacks. An attacker can even execute one with well under 50% of the network hash rate due to selfish mining. Current PoS staking pool protocols are usually extremely resistant to attacks, especially since many of them use smart contracts. However, this is a very complex topic. In general, it's so hard to attack PoS that the only times we've ever seen it happen are due to accidental client bugs.

Common-Foundation979

Opting out too, DLT Finance GmbH is way too shady. Also that it is a GmbH (max liability 25k €) is quite a joke. This exchange is run by DLT Finance / DLT Securities too, great reviews: [https://de.trustpilot.com/review/bsdex.de](https://de.trustpilot.com/review/bsdex.de) BSDEX Partners: [https://www.bsdex.de/de/institutions/participants/](https://www.bsdex.de/de/institutions/participants/) I also dislike the way Kraken managed this very much. Initial announcement was only 30days before required action and CLOSED POSITIONS. How shall one plan his trades like this? How about people with bonded stakes up to 28 days unbonding period. No holiday trip allowed, check your account EVERY DAY! This is a warning for all other foreign (not US) Kraken users, especially in Europe. Your positions might be closed in just 30 days without a timely announcement because Kraken decides to not apply for licenses itself but rather trusts your crypto to shady third parties with less functionality.

HSuke

There's a lot of missing documentation for Kaspa, which makes it hard to research it. Half the pages on their Github (https://github.com/kaspanet/docs) are still Work in Progress, so I don't have a full picture of it. This is what I've found in my own research: Facts: * **Consensus**: * uses PoW for sybil resistance * uses PHANTOM GHOSTDAG for consensus (a DAG variation of Ethereum's GHOST protocol) * **Transactions**: * uses UTXOs for transaction type * does not support smart contracts * Needs a very high number of confirmations for finality (1000+ confimrations, 100+ minutes?, this needs fact verification) * Extremely cheap Tx fees, practically free * **Blocks** * is DAG DLT * has 1-3s average block times * has very small blocks (usually 1-3 Tx per block) * **Tokenomics** * has no premine * has a 28.7B supply cap, has monthly (1/12th halvings) effectively providing 1 halving per year * Other * There is a community building KRC-20 tokens, which are similar to JSON-format BRC-20 tokens, and nothing like smart-contract ERC-20 tokens. https://docs.kasplex.org/protocols/krc-20-tokens/basic-operation/deploy * Does not support DeFi * Founder is Yonatan Sompolinsky, who is responsible for inventing Ethereum's GHOST consensus protocol **Notes and Opinions**: * In general, DAGs are much faster and more efficient than blockchains, with the downside that they're more complex. Nodes need to put in more effort to make sure transactions are ordered without double-spends. * GHOST is more efficient than Bitcoin's version of PoW because it does not waste orphaned/stale blocks. This is important for DLTs with fast block times. * In general, PoW is less secure than PoS, but PoW has more censorship resistance and higher liveness than PoS. I would expect PoS DAGs like Nano and IOTA to be more secure but less resistant to liveness attacks than KASPA. * Kaspa does not natively support smart contracts or DeFi. It can emulate it off-chain in the same way than Ordinals and Inscriptions have emulated tokenization on Bitcoin. But that's nothing like true DeFi. * I'm not sure about how many confirmations is needed for probabilistic finality. Normally, this would be covered under documentation, but Kaspa doesn't have documentation on this. This needs to be determined by running through the complex math from its whitepaper with the current block times (1-3s). * I'm concerned about the lack of documentation and block explorers. There is one block explorer, and it's missing a lot of basic features. There is not a lot of community infrastructure for Kaspa. **Overall**, I would treat Kaspa as a much better version of Bitcoin (much faster block times, cheaper transaction fees, high throughput, much more efficient). But that's not much of a compliment since nearly EVERY blockchain is better than Bitcoin. Protocol-wise, GHOST provides similar security to Bitcoin's heaviest-weight. But that's about all it does: just basic transfers. It doesn't support smart contracts or DeFi while many other blockchains do. So I think this limits the growth potential for Kaspa.

HvRv

Im asking this purely because ECB is already in the test phase for their DLT settlement of wholesale transactions in central bank money using 3 different systems and Ripple is not one of them. Tests started about a month ago and will last for 6 months.

fudelnotze

It hits me like a nuke. Robinhood. ROBINHOOD!! I dont find the words for it. Aa german user it hits me twice. Kraken kicks us away to german DLT-Office. And now Bitstamp will be same s**t like RH. Users here are so fu**ed up with that. RH is same s**t like Trade Republic, Plus500, etoro and so on. Unbelievable. U N B E L I V A B L E!

cryptonija

That sounds really tough. It's unfortunate that these new regulations are pushing people away from exchanges they trust. The transition to DLT Finance seems to be causing a lot of uncertainty. Interestingly, while regulations in the US are getting better, it seems some countries in the EU, like Ireland and Switzerland are a bit more open. I hope things get sorted out soon.

KilgoreThunfisch

American living in Germany, been here for almost 11 years now. I'm being forced out essentially. I can't use any exchange now due to my complicated tax situation. My full German friends are also leaving Kraken because they don't trust DLT Finance.

cryptonija

That's an interesting point! It could very well be related to the new regulations in Germany. If holders are moving their assets to comply with the DLT Finance requirements, that would explain the significant outflows. Anyone from Germany here seeing similar trends or have more insights? 🌐💼

mvea

Mod updates: 1. ⁠Moon Week 49 is now live! Please vote so we can progress to distribution after the next Moon Week! https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/HiK4wmfSvj 2. ⁠Latest Reddit r/CryptoCurrency AMA - Radix DLT June 5th 2024 at 11:30am UTC. With Radix, users can confidently use Web3 and DeFi to manage their assets and identities. Giveaway of $50 worth of XRD to 1 lucky participant. Radix burned 1,575 moons to host this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/pMu1sVCCRJ

k3surfacer

>bet DLT finace will get hacked and go bancrupt at the crash at the end of this cycle. In that case a compensation by the exchange seems possible, no? I mean the exchange is registered officially, I guess.

moonst1

hey krakensupport, everyone preaches DYOR, but you partner with DLT in Germany, the sketchiest company ever. Are you like suicidal?

Elfundneunzig

BSDEX seems to be low fees and spread. Made an account recently and will send all my coins when this DLT bullshit really happens. Kraken it was a good time, but now f you :)

beepBob4

Maybe these are the holdings of the Germans that are forced to use DLT Finance in 4 days.

UnluckLefty

The price action of XRP doesn’t tell the story and I believe this is a deliberate strategy in which Ripple has been using their escrow (token reserves) to sell into strength to keep the price stable because people like you and me want quick returns and will overlook it or get shaken out of conviction by the next shiny new toy. The simple fact is XRP isn’t built for you and me (consumers), it’s built for the international banking system institutions and it won’t reach full adoption until there is regulatory clarity which they’ve been fighting for via litigation which will soon come to a close. If you do a bit of research and understand legalese you’ll see that Ripple is currently fighting disclosure of their client list they had to produce during discovery citing ‘competitive concerns’. If you research beyond that you can find they’ve been piloting XRP’s DLT with the who’s who of international finance including the BIS and the wire-houses on Wall Street who’ve spoken about them at industry think tank conferences, WEF in Davos etc. I’m far from a tin-foil hat person but where there is smoke there is usually fire. You have to ask yourself why perceived Main Street investors would keep $30b of capital tied up in this ‘zombie project’ returning single digit margins keeping it in the top 10 without merit? I believe it is because this is Wall Streets sleeping giant that will boom once the final lynchpin (US reg clarity) is complete. I might be wrong, but this is one coin I would rather be caught with than caught without because the risk/return is so asymmetrical.

Aggravating-Bonus-73

I would guess Germans running away ? Kraken partnered with some 3rd party "DLT finance" to provide liquidity for Germans and it means this 3rd party can get all the informations about users. Deadline is in 5 days to do another KYS and accept new ToS or withdraw everything somewhere else

moonst1

European law. There are other exchanges compliant with European law that require less intrusive KYC and who don't partner with a shady company like DLT.

DAMG808

Bye bye Kraken....was fun as long as it lasted.. but i am not going to get KYC'd again with a shady company as DLT Finance. No way. Coinbase has a BaFin License too and it works like a charm as a company registered in Germany. For years now. This is such a shot in the foot by Kraken, i don't get it why they do it this way. Sad.

Trant0r

I liked Kraken for many reasons, but I leave now. They keep repeating DLT finance is BaFin regulated in every second sentence, but it is not listed as custodian at BaFin. https://portal.mvp.bafin.de/database/InstInfo/sucheForm.do?institutName=&institutId=&institutBakNr=&institutRegNr=&kategorieId=28&sucheButtonInstitut=Suche What does BaFin regulation mean for security anyway? I bet DLT finace will get hacked and go bancrupt at the crash at the end of this cycle. I'm quite angry about this.

forstyy

German client here. I don't know what the fuck is up with Kraken, but I had to do a complete KYC verification again. I don't know why this is necessary an what are the benefits. They only tell you some nonsense marketing bullshit that DLT Finance will be the next big thing... Now we see the first effect: Monero will be unsupported. I have a feeling that the best times for Kraken are over.

mvea

Mod updates: 1. ⁠Moon Week 49 is now live! Please vote so we can progress to distribution after the next Moon Week! https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/HiK4wmfSvj 2. ⁠Latest Reddit r/CryptoCurrency AMA - Radix DLT June 5th 2024 at 11:30am UTC. With Radix, users can confidently use Web3 and DeFi to manage their assets and identities. Giveaway of $50 worth of XRD to 1 lucky participant. Radix burned 1,575 moons to host this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/pMu1sVCCRJ

mvea

Mod updates: 1. Moon Week 49 is now live! Please vote so we can progress to distribution after the next Moon Week! https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/HiK4wmfSvj 2. Latest Reddit r/CryptoCurrency AMA - Radix DLT June 5th 2024 at 11:30am UTC. With Radix, users can confidently use Web3 and DeFi to manage their assets and identities. Giveaway of $50 worth of XRD to 1 lucky participant. Radix burned 1,575 moons to host this. https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/pMu1sVCCRJ

mvea

Radix DLT burned 1,575 moons to host this AMA. Transaction: https://arbiscan.io/tx/0x1e0e301b4dac1734618282b5285666d4310ad8bb5b261171e6ed660bb7733175

JackRipster

I just dont have BTC as much of a certainty as others do for two major reasons really. 1. Quantum computing 2. Regulations. At the end of the day BTC is just a DLT like all the others. Pretty much every product in the world must meet certain energy efficacy requirements, i dont think it'll be any different for BTC. It might be as simple as having to buy carbon offsets to be carbon neutral, but that would blow out transaction costs to such an extent its future becomes questionable at best.

Kriegsechse

Nope, I will not. I have no interest in doing business with DLT. It's a shame, I've been using Kraken for over a decade now and it's been my favorite exchange for a reason.

Zweckbestimmung

I posted about this lately. I unfortunately did reverify, then found out that this DLT company is very shady, I did my own small research to confirm that, the verification didn’t work though, although I did the webID verification. I regret doing the webID verification. God knows what would this DLT company do with my information.

boddankajovanovic

If you re-verify, your info is going to be handed to the DLT. That's another party that gains access to your data.

Ciabbata

People fear that DLT will be more lenient in forwarding your data / trades etc. Also the asset offering will be decreased, specifically derivatives. If you are fine with buying on CEX and deploy buy and hold strategy then the change doesn't matter much.

FeeeFiiFooFumm

Ask and you shall receive > Their new verification is overstepping it. Most intrusive shit I have ever seen. I doubt that it's necessary in this form. They just want to collect data, so that this shady DLT company can make some extra money. Krakens verification process is a) absolutely in line with regular investment products identity verification, b) not thought up by Kraken but by the regulators of the country they operate in. So both, your claim that's they're overstepping it and that it's very intrusive is just a stupid uninformed panicky claim. Your doubt about its necessity is equally unfounded and uninformed. Your claim that there's some conspiracy to collect data to make money off is again utter bullshit and easily disproven by the fact that it's not even Kraken nor DLT collecting this data but a verification company. So, again, as I said: you're rather dumb but seemed very sure in what you originally said which made it quite funny to me.

moonst1

Their new verification is overstepping it. Most intrusive shit I have ever seen. I doubt that it's necessary in this form. They just want to collect data, so that this shady DLT company can make some extra money.

moonst1

And their questions are horrible. I wonder if this is compliant with the strict privacy and data protection laws in Germany. I had to do the verification process twice because... I don't really know, they somehow fckd it up. Anyway, I will move my funds out within the next months and not come back. And this DLT Finance is such a shady company. Everyone in crypto says "DYOR" but obviously kraken did not. I think all the praise that u/krakenexchange received here had a bad effect. Now they think they can abuse their positive reputation without consequences. Damn wrong they are.

DAN_ikigai

I ordered my cold wallet last week because of this. And I feel much better. Oh and some assets will not be supported under DLT Finance anymore. I was happy with kraken, fk EU fk Germany and dlt finance.

Phallic

> Puff piece to promote using DTCC, ClearStream, EuroClear's services and infrastructure Given those FMIs are responsible for hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of annual securities settlement, I'd say it's probably a pretty big deal, and a final, fatal blow to the last remaining stragglers on the "there is no use case for DLT" side.

BTCBoom

First of all, we would become a first social platform in the world with integrated CBDC's, we have just a few months before Digital Hryvnia launch in Ukraine, based on Stellar DLT, as we are. Days after the launch all our users would have it in wallets to try and use. Such features like token-as-a-service and LifeToken - would develop and scale up internal financial infrastructure of Sl8 platform, allowing users to invest in tokens of communities, businesses and even individual talent. Social network-as-a-service feature allows to build up separate social networks within Sl8 social platform, with their own rules, moderation team, own token and tokenomics, own AI models etc.

Paxisstinkt

Kraken is regulated in Ireland. DLT Finance is regulated by the Bafin. No where would a German tax authority get access to information to more easily?

DAMG808

Well said....i already moved everything out...DLT is a nogo.