DLT

plushpaper

Hedera for sure. If Hedera can’t succeed than the world just doesn’t really need DLT.

IsThereAnythingLeft-

Seems like you don’t know blockchain is a type of DLT

hungryforitalianfood

And what a fucking niche. The first registered DLT foundation under ADGM in Abu Dhabi. This is like when ESPN announces that so and so is the first player since 1973 with a jersey number 9 and exactly seventeen points and nine assists in a game starting as 7:30pm while wearing white basketball shoes and red socks.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The IOTA Ecosystem DLT Foundation has been registered as the first foundation under the DLT Foundations Regulations of Abu Dhabi Global Market (ADGM). The foundation will be seeded with over $100 million in IOTA tokens to nurture the IOTA ecosystem and accelerate the growth of the IOTA protocol in the MENA region and globally. This landmark achievement positions IOTA at the forefront of digital and real-world convergence in the financial sector and aims to bridge the gap between the real world and the digital one. The foundation will work with ADGM’s authorities to drive forward the regulatory landscape and bring institutional investors and assets into the digital ecosystem. This move aims to cultivate a flourishing crypto community within ADGM’s ecosystem and contribute to a new era in regulatory collaboration within crypto markets. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The joint project between EDF, REDEX, and Rekursive Labs aims to revolutionize and automate the management of renewable energy certificates (RECs) using distributed ledger technology (DLT). This collaboration leverages the power of Hedera's DLT and open-source Guardian platform to automate the issuance and redemption of RECs, paving the way for a more efficient and transparent renewable energy market. The project enables end consumers to retire small quantities of RECs in real time, empowering individuals to send a clear market signal about their concern for how the power they consume is being produced. The initiative successfully demonstrated the automatic redemption of tokenized RECs at electric vehicle charging stations, and the companies intend to further refine the solution, develop new use cases, and offer automated REC services to other producers and consumers of renewable energy globally. This project represents a significant step towards accelerating the global movement towards sustainable energy production. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Perfect_Ability_1190

Paris, France — 29 November — Électricité de France (EDF), one of the world's largest electricity producers, the largest renewable energy producer in Europe, and an active member of the Hedera Council, has successfully completed a proof-of-concept (POC) that aims to revolutionize and automate the management of renewable energy certificates (RECs). The project enables end consumers to retire small quantities of RECs in real time. This empowers individuals to send a clear market signal that they care about how the power they consume is being produced. This ground-breaking effort was a collaboration with REDEX, a leading RECs solutions provider, and Rekursive Labs, a specialist in Web3 distributed ledger technology (DLT) enterprise solutions. The project leverages the power of Hedera's DLT and open-source Guardian platform to automate the issuance and redemption of RECs, paving the way for a more efficient and transparent renewable energy market. EDF, REDEX, and Rekursive Labs intend to further refine the solution, develop new use cases, and offer automated REC services to other producers and consumers of renewable energy globally.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; The article discusses the potential benefits for credit unions to consider BankSocial® and its Hedera solution. BankSocial® offers financial solutions such as self-custody crypto exchange, streamlined user verification, and asset-backed lending, with a focus on exceptional member experience. The article highlights the collaboration between BankSocial® and credit unions, emphasizing the potential for decentralized finance and open banking powered by distributed ledger technology. The article also touches on the regulatory environment and the potential for credit unions to provide a better member experience through the adoption of DLT. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

thereluctantpoet

Familiar with the folks at EBSI and really one of the few branches leading the way in DLT adoption for non-crypto applications in the EU. My previous project was almost a part of their first cohort but came in a little late. Zero hype, pure fundamental application of blockchain where it makes sense as a solution.

Routine-Moment-7845

I'm sure it was rather disappointing to manufactures who made 8 track equipment when the cassette player was invented, and the cassette gave away to the CD and streaming. That's what really is scary to the many of the true blockchains out there as they know their technology is now obsolete and they can never be as good as Hedera. And most of the "decentralized" blockchains are controlled by a hand full of insiders that aren't even publicly known. So keep fudding Hedera if wish -- but just know that in the world of technology the best invariably is the one that will be used the most. Cardano has a market cap of $13.8 billion dollars and they're doing less than 2 tps. Hedera has a market cap of $2.2 billion dollars and they're doing over 2,000 tps and the usage is going parabolic world wide -- so the proof is in the pudding that within 2-3 years Hedera will be in the top 5 by market cap and possibly #1. So get your best FUD out but just know that Hedera is the future for DLT.

powderfinger303

Wondering if you can expand a bit on the research that spurred this? I agree with you that SSI is very interesting. EU is also heading full steam ahead towards adopting digital product passports, which could also be run on DLT tech. I can't help but think that this is a great thing for the crypto space overall, even if it doesn't spur any price action.

CointestMod

#Hedera Pro-Arguments Below is a Hedera pro-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** Hedera is governed by a permissioned council of 26 (up to 39) companies. It was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > I had to dig pretty hard to find Pros arguments for Hedera. > > **High performance** > > - Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is very fast. > - Hedera [was a 10 TPS smart contract network](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), but that changed after Smart Contracts 2.0 and Hedera Token Service were released in early 2022. Its network is currently not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS with [smart contract transactions throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Theoretically, that is very fast, but keep in mind that we don't have any real metrics of what Hedera's network would look like under full DeFi load. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1 depending on the contract, but that's still cheaper than Ethereum (as long as the Hedera network is being subsidized by high inflation). > - Hedera has [extremely low energy consumption](https://hedera.com/blog/power-transition-blockchain-sustainability-hedera-hashgraph), using up ~1% of the energy consumption of the average US household. > > **Strong niche following** > > - Hedera is a **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA) network. It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council members each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - The concept of being controlled by a conglomerate of tech companies clashes with the cypherpunk movement. **However, Hedera supporters truly believe that this is the ideal decentralized network because they believe a > consortium of publicly-known companies will never collude and misbehave, risking damage to reputation.** There aren't many PoA networks of this design, so it barely has any direct competitors. It has cornered this niche market. After visiting the Hedera sub, it is evident that they truly love their network and will defend it to the bone. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

Perfect_Ability_1190

This research assessed if HH is a disruptor with the capacity to become a dominant player in the DLT space. We used a multi-method approach analyzing the question from three different perspectives. We found that Hedera will most likely obtain a strong market position. HH offers a DLT alternative different from the predominant Blockchain design. From a technical perspective, HH enables higher efficiency, speed, and scalability (TPS) and comes with the unique features of ABFT and immediate finality of consensus. The potential for adoption and success of an innovation in the market, however, depends on many factors and not just technological superiority. This dissertation relied on three perspectives that were applied and triangulated. The assessment of HH was conducted in the relation to the incumbent, Ethereum. Potential CA was determined based on Disruptive Innovation theory and market analysis of entry timing. Based on low-end market encroachment, disruptive innovation, SMA and CA were held to exist for HH. Dynamic capabilities based on the governance model were also detected. Hence, a strategic management perspective suggests HH's future success. External factors influencing HH's market position were included in scenario planning and a least surprising scenario was posited to infer an increasing market position of HH relative to the incumbent, Ethereum. Furthermore, user acceptance was determined based on statistical analysis of user-survey results. The latter implied user acceptance of HH. Consequently, all three perspectives taken in aggregate pointed towards positive development of HH vis-à-vis incumbents. We concluded that development of HH will continue apace as a significant protocol in an oligopolistic market. This study is significant as it considers developments in DLT from a novel perspective. Thus far, discussions of DLT protocols and their potential in academia have mainly taken a computer science perspective. Success, however, is determined by multivariant factors. This study brings new thinking to the fore including the vocabulary of management theory and applies concepts from scholarship on innovation and strategy to the DLT market. Hopefully, this work contributes to stronger understanding of DL Ts as a transformative, digital phenomenon and helps overcome naysayers who view the space with skepticism and incredulity.

Impossible-Goal3492

The point is that HBAR actually makes it feasible, possible, and more affordable using HBAR as the tech compared to others. It wouldn't be possible by using any other current DLT blockchain. Has Elon Musk realized that by now? Likely yes. Will SPaceX be a Council Member? Likely yes.

Perfect_Ability_1190

Ethereum's scalability bottleneck is in the consensus mechanism and fundamental nature of blockchain. That's why "layer 2 scaling solutions" all refer to moving consensus off Ethereum. Basically batching a large number of transactions (consensus rounds.) on some other network (sometimes even a private network, and sometimes not even a DLT at-all!!!) into a smaller number of "batched" transactions/consensus back on the layer 1... this is idiotic inefficient. Any seasoned Decentralized Apps (DApps) developer will tell you, most of Blockchain DApps problems are that they are build on top of a Blockchain.

Perfect_Ability_1190

UK regulators give green light to fund tokenisation Earlier this year major UK asset manager abrdn launched its first DLT-based investment by tokenizing part of its £15 billion Lux Sterling money market fund. The token was issued on @Hedera and used the Archax Tokenisation Engine to mint the token. Archax is a member of the tech working group which assisted The Investment Association, HM Treasury and Financial Conduct Authority to complete phase one.

Perfect_Ability_1190

[SpaceX Twitter Space Discussing DLT Tech.](https://x.com/Zetagammaphi/status/1727433502097088865?s=20)

jeeptopdown

I suppose that is a possibility. Or, they become the first DLT in the world to achieve widespread enterprise adoption and dominate the field.

Perfect_Ability_1190

The reality of Blockchain is that it’s extremely inefficient compared to other forms of DLT. Here’s a list of a few metrics that illustrate why the [White House](https://www.state.gov/private-sector-commitments-to-advance-democracy/), central banks and private banks are embracing Hedera Hashgraph’s technology over Blockchain: 1.000 times greener than Visa Transactions 970.000.000 times greener than Blockchain Transactions Tiny transaction fees (0.001$) Infinite Transactions per Second with shards

jekpopulous2

Decentralization works on a spectrum… and while no DLT is fully decentralized there are levels to this… * ETH: Has over 500,000 validators nodes, 7,500 full nodes, uses 7 different execution clients and 10 different consensus clients. * HBAR: Has 23 permissioned validators all using the same client for consensus. You could argue that HBAR is “decentralized enough” and that’s fine. It’s up to individual investors to decide for themselves - because how decentralized a chain actually needs to be is subjective. None of that changes the fact that HBAR is among the most centralized DLTs in existence though…

jekpopulous2

23 permissioned validators… its literally the most centralized DLT in the entire space.

cryptolipto

I know you know nothing about tradfi because swift has been working on t+0 settlements for years in the form of ISO20022 and it’s not live yet and it still doesn’t have the instant settlement guarantee of DLT. I don’t have to convince you. JPMogran can instead. https://x.com/blockworksdas/status/1725212754968002983?s=46&t=7Of64Mi5PfYF-LGsyM4X0A

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

Perfect_Ability_1190

That’s where DLT’s come in ;)

ericmorrison99

Digital native meaning no brick and mortar locations? Which is not new. Self custody meaning they take no risk? Also, currently SOP for most. So, how would it be powered by DLT? This just sounds like a Credit Union that has a Web3 logo and word salad announcements about digital web3 Distributed Ledger technology to provide services to …repeat buzz words.

Perfect_Ability_1190

Decentralisation in the traditional sense is a myth. Anarchy doesn't work because power naturally consolidates. The truth is that a degree of centralisation is (ironically) necessary in order to achieve decentralisation. If you think about the dynamic between a government and the free market, the government is a centralised power that ensures that the free market remains decentralised through anti-monopoly/anti-trust laws. Forms of centralised power only become a problem when there are no checks and balances. Hedera has democracy, just like a government, to ensure the decentralisation of consensus. Compare that to the plutocracy of other networks, where more tokens = more votes. And where the incentive structures encourage the consolidation of power among the wealthy. The sentiment in the broader crypto space seems to be that Hedera is "centralised". I can understand why someone would think this initially, but I believe this concept is much more nuanced than it first seems. No protocol can begin as fully decentralised. It is a process to get there. My opinion is that Hedera is on the correct path to achieve the right balance of decentralisation through its many properties. Decentralised Consensus The final goal is to have fully decentralised consensus. This will be achieved through: 1. First community-run nodes, and then permission-less nodes. Anybody will be able to help run the network. 2. Staking rewards create incentives to hold HBAR and/or run nodes to participate in consensus, increasing decentralisation. Rewards are automatically adjusted to incentivise an even distribution of staked HBAR across all nodes. 3. A long, slow distribution of tokens, spreading HBAR across many different actors. This makes it very difficult for someone to buy up 1/3rd of tokens to control the network. 4. There is no "longest chain" in Hashgraph, as it's a DAG. The only way for a bad actor to possibly control consensus is to obtain 1/3rd of HBARs. 5. Hashgraph uses automated voting to arrive at a consensus among all nodes. Other networks require some form of node selection/sampling/sub-committee for voting. So, networks with thousands of nodes reduce to a much smaller number of nodes that actually participate in consensus - making them far less decentralised than they first appear. Hedera uses all nodes in consensus, while also being leaderless and aBFT secure. Decentralised Governance The Hedera Governing Council consists of up to 39 term-limited organisations, spread across six continents and from different sectors/industries. The vast majority of whom are developing use cases for the network. Every council member has a single governance vote (2.5% each at the full 39 members). To prevent the consolidation of power, terms are capped at a maximum duration of three years with up to two consecutive terms (except Swirlds). These are diverse and established entities including the likes of Google, IBM, and Boeing. They have a large stake in the network's success and a reputation to uphold. This governance structure creates: 1. Trust • Having a group of identifiable, reputable members creates direct accountability. In contrast, anonymous voters cannot be referenced, and cannot therefore be trusted as easily. • We can trust that the Hedera ledger will never fork into seperate chains, and that consensus will remain decentralised. The council have a legally bound obligation to never allow a bad actor to obtain 1/3rd of HBAR supply - a guarantee that provides necessary trust for mission-critical use cases. For applications with billions/ trillions of dollars at stake, this is essential. Preventing re-centralisation of power is just as important as decentralising power. • We can trust that the network always has secure nodes to rely on. If running a node ever became unprofitable or unavailable for whatever reason (due to a black swan event, market turmoil, etc.), the council nodes would still be running. Instead of relying on loyalty based on profit, the council can be trusted to continue operations regardless of these factors, thereby protecting the network from bad actors. Effective governance to address failures. You need someone to uphold the security of the underlying code in case something goes wrong, like the network getting hacked or code being exploited. This is why basically all Layer 1 chains must have centralised teams) of programmers that help build and maintain the network. What really matters here is to create trust through transparent and effective governance. Hedera have proven this during the smart contract exploit earlier this year, successfully preventing millions of dollars from being stolen. (The power to shut down proxies will be decentralised in time.) • Transparency strengthens trust. Council meeting minutes are published - anyone can view all attendees and a summary of the topics discussed. The underlying hashgraph is fully open-sourced - anyone can view or use the code. All network services and developer tools are also open-sourced. Additionally, Hedera services and platform are continuously audited by an independent third party (FP Complete) for added trust. 2. Aligned Interests • Members are disincentivised from harming their reputation by sabotaging a network they have already sunk lots of time/ resources/effort securing and developing for. Furthermore, most council members are for-profit entities with $ revenue and valuations in the billions. So any potential monetary temptations or bribes will not work. Political concerns are nullified through the geographic distribution of members and their respective nodes (plus the censorship resistance baked into the code). These factors drastically reduce the possibility of even just one actor becoming corrupted, let alone several. • On other PoS chains, holding more tokens means having more power - concentrating influence in the hands of the wealthy few. On Proof of Work chains, economies of scale encourage centralisation - concentrating mining power to those who can afford the most mining rigs. This is contrary to the fundamental values of Crypto/Web3. On Hedera, you cannot buy your way into influencing governance decisions. Democracy only works properly when everyone's vote is treated equall and fairly. Every vote on the governing council is equal. Token holders are inherently disincentivised from voting in favour of decisions that could devalue their financial investment. This is a clear conflict of interest. Voting proposals surrounding token releases, staking rewards, or general tokenomics, are a good example of this.Democracy is not just about accountability, but also about whom you are accountable to. The council, as direct stakeholders in the technical performance of the network, are incentivised to act in good faith and hold each other accountable. • An effective democracy should presume that participants are capable of understanding what they are voting on. The vast majority of investors don't understand the deeply sophisticated technical aspects of DLT. In contrast, the council is knowledgeable on the technical aspects as per their involvement. Some chains may try to solve this through electing representatives, but the previous issues mentioned still persist. • Nearly every proposal for technological decisions and standards comes from the developer community, proposed via an active HIP (Hedera Improvement Proposal) program. This gives developers a voice & I rest.

Roland_91_

It is DLT. It is not blockchain. this report is for 16 blockchains.

IsThereAnythingLeft-

It’s a DLT, blockchain is just on form of a DLT

Perfect_Ability_1190

Great paper by Dell on DLT. Big section on Hedera. Really highlights the challenges that enterprise users face when implementing DLT. Hats of to Leemon and crew for foreseeing the challenges and designing the Hedera network. Steve Todd and crew at Dell has really done their homework. Hopefully they are designing some great hardware that complements Hedera. Now I understand a little more on why it takes big institutions longer to implement when you have the wild west of web3. Now we need regulatory clarity to get out of 1st gear. From the paper: According to the Accenture reportxv mentioned above, the answer is to join with others effectively. "The whole point of doing blockchain is it's a team sport," Christopher G. McDaniel, President of the Institutes RiskBlock Alliance, explains. "If you're trying to do it on your own, maybe that's OK from a proof-of concept standpoint, but if you ever want to get real production value, you have to join with others. Otherwise there's no point!"

oncemoor

I'd also include that these blockchains excelled due to DeFi and NFTs. DeFi's success during the last bull run was driven by the allure of 10-20% risk-free returns in a bullish market where people were willing to pay high loan rates to speculate on appreciating assets. As we learned this wasn’t sustainable in bear markets. NFTs, (images) seemingly frivolous to some, showcased the potential for issuing immutable, auditable digital certificates of ownership applicable to Real World Assets (RWA). Both served as valuable betas affirming the technology's viability. The upcoming surge in DeFi and NFTs is poised to surpass crypto's prior achievements, demanding more sophisticated blockchains for enterprise integration. Each bull run introduces a new blockchain use case: First BTC as currency, the next was smart contracts and ICOs, then DeFi and NFTs. Progressing each cycle from speculation to more utility. Each cycle people flood into the previous darling’s alts, looking at ATH as a minimum, but soon find the market jumping on the next hot thing. I anticipate the next bull run will thrive on enterprise and government adoption, transitioning RWAs and Web 3.0 (2.5) to blockchain. AI and blockchain both offer tremendous cost savings and bringing auditable and transparent DLT reducing compliance and audit. Mass adoption hinges on enterprise adoption, given that one Enterprise has more customers than all existing existing blockchain projects combined we are still very early in the technology and what it can do. My two cents worth.

jeeptopdown

It will use HCS to keep a public record of provenance on a DLT (Hedera). So every time a file (or block of files) is confirmed on a private ledger, that block will generate an HCS transaction. I suppose the number of txs that will generate for us depends on how much the service is used. Sounds like the US Gov’t (including branches of the military) paid for the development of, and the testing of, the product. I wonder how many files those entities produce? My guess is that is a big number.

CointestMod

#Hedera Pro-Arguments Below is a Hedera pro-argument written by a deleted user. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** Hedera is governed by a permissioned council of 26 (up to 39) companies. It was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > I had to dig pretty hard to find Pros arguments for Hedera. > > **High performance** > > - Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is very fast. > - Hedera [was a 10 TPS smart contract network](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), but that changed after Smart Contracts 2.0 and Hedera Token Service were released in early 2022. Its network is currently not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS with [smart contract transactions throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Theoretically, that is very fast, but keep in mind that we don't have any real metrics of what Hedera's network would look like under full DeFi load. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1 depending on the contract, but that's still cheaper than Ethereum (as long as the Hedera network is being subsidized by high inflation). > - Hedera has [extremely low energy consumption](https://hedera.com/blog/power-transition-blockchain-sustainability-hedera-hashgraph), using up ~1% of the energy consumption of the average US household. > > **Strong niche following** > > - Hedera is a **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA) network. It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council members each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - The concept of being controlled by a conglomerate of tech companies clashes with the cypherpunk movement. **However, Hedera supporters truly believe that this is the ideal decentralized network because they believe a > consortium of publicly-known companies will never collude and misbehave, risking damage to reputation.** There aren't many PoA networks of this design, so it barely has any direct competitors. It has cornered this niche market. After visiting the Hedera sub, it is evident that they truly love their network and will defend it to the bone. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

jekpopulous2

Oh for sure… decentralization is a spectrum and no DLT is perfect. The people shilling HBAR seem to have given up on decentralization altogether though.

MattiaXRD

Excellent write up! I would also like to add that the user experience is very smooth: Radix Wallet is a breeze to work with. If you want an example, check out this tutorial on [how to add liquidity to CaviarNine (dApp with highest TVL on Radix so far) LSU pool](https://radixtalk.com/t/how-to-add-liquidity-to-caviarnine-lsu-pool/1864) or [how to add liquidity to Ociswap liquidity pools](https://radixtalk.com/t/how-to-add-liquidity-to-ociswap-liquidity-pools/1871) (this one shows a bit of Radix magic in the wallet!) And if you're looking for more resources and information check out [RadixTalk.com](https://radixtalk.com/), a community forum about Radix DLT.

Sea_Complex6261

DLT

InfoLeech1337

I bet 95% of ppl are in crypto because of money. After all most coins act according to BTC heights and lows. Still ppl speculate which coins rise more. It's casino if you're honest about it. Maybe Ethereum is the real playground for nerds and that's nice. My point is that HBAR represents a new technology with an actual use case for many Industries. If you deny this fact without doing research that be ignorant. DLT with Hederas protocol is something new. Blockchains like Ethereum is not useful for business. It's too slow, u scalable, insecure and energy inefficient.

InfoLeech1337

Because the whole financial sector is fleeing to stable coins to escape inflation. That's the big picture. You see it in the non-crypto news already. Sure. ETH. The old rusty truck has no chance vs DLT DAG architecture.

Bitcoin_Maximalist

>Liang did, however, said she sees a use case for distributed ledger technology the good old DLT buzzword

telejoshi

This is actually (really) big. Right now it's for institutions but it's just the beginning. Here's the translated announcement from their website: >DZ BANK has launched a new platform for the settlement and custody of digital financial instruments. This makes the cooperative central institution one of the first banks to launch such a service for institutional clients based on blockchain technology. With a volume of over EUR 300 billion, DZ BANK is the third-largest custodian in Germany after BNP Paribas and State Street, and the largest among German custodians. > >"We assume that within the next ten years, a significant proportion of the capital market business will be processed via distributed ledger technology (DLT)-based infrastructures. In the medium term, we see DLT as a complementary technology to the established infrastructures in existing capital market processes," says Dr. Holger Meffert, Head of Securities Services & Digital Custody at DZ BANK. The bank has hired more than a dozen new employees in IT, operations and compliance to operate the new custody solution. > >The bank has been working with blockchain technology for years, and in 2022 it began setting up the digital custody platform for institutional clients. Here it will initially take crypto securities into custody. This includes a crypto bond from Siemens, which Union Investment and DZ BANK subscribed to six months ago and which has now been transferred to the bank's own custody. DZ BANK had previously been involved in the first external transaction of crypto fund shares of Bankhaus Metzler as a settlement agent and custodian. As both cases fall within the scope of the German Electronic Securities Act (eWpG), custody is already possible with the existing licenses. > >In order to enable institutional clients to invest in cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin in the future, DZ BANK applied for a crypto custody license from the German Federal Financial Supervisory Authority (BaFin) in June. In parallel to the solution for institutional clients, the bank is working on an offering that will enable private clients to invest directly in cryptocurrencies. > >With the existing infrastructure, the bank is also in a position to actively participate in the exploration phase of the European Central Bank (ECB), in which the settlement of large-volume capital market transactions in central bank money is being tested.

Rakshear

Crypto may die yes, but blockchain technology like btc, eth, polygon matic and other L1s are actually useful for their intended purposes, the prices may drop or rise to what actual value=demand, no more shib, doge, or peepee but as long as the project teams update to protect against quantum hacking, DLT services will be very useful and therefore valuable. IMO.

JustStopppingBye

[https://www.ledgerinsights.com/digital-bond-euroclear-world-bank-dlt/](https://www.ledgerinsights.com/digital-bond-euroclear-world-bank-dlt/) First bond issuance using DLT from last week . Its coming.

mino3

Is Hedera a DLT just like Fantom ? Are't they both dead ? Update : Transaction on Hedera are founded by Hbarfoundation so not so true use case here. Hbar Foundation pays their developers sellong hbar tokens.

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by Maleficent_Plankton. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Hedera Pro-Arguments Below is a Hedera pro-argument written by Maleficent_Plankton. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** Hedera is governed by a permissioned council of 26 (up to 39) companies. It was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > I had to dig pretty hard to find Pros arguments for Hedera. > > **High performance** > > - Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is very fast. > - Hedera [was a 10 TPS smart contract network](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), but that changed after Smart Contracts 2.0 and Hedera Token Service were released in early 2022. Its network is currently not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS with [smart contract transactions throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Theoretically, that is very fast, but keep in mind that we don't have any real metrics of what Hedera's network would look like under full DeFi load. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1 depending on the contract, but that's still cheaper than Ethereum (as long as the Hedera network is being subsidized by high inflation). > - Hedera has [extremely low energy consumption](https://hedera.com/blog/power-transition-blockchain-sustainability-hedera-hashgraph), using up ~1% of the energy consumption of the average US household. > > **Strong niche following** > > - Hedera is a **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA) network. It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council members each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - The concept of being controlled by a conglomerate of tech companies clashes with the cypherpunk movement. **However, Hedera supporters truly believe that this is the ideal decentralized network because they believe a > consortium of publicly-known companies will never collude and misbehave, risking damage to reputation.** There aren't many PoA networks of this design, so it barely has any direct competitors. It has cornered this niche market. After visiting the Hedera sub, it is evident that they truly love their network and will defend it to the bone. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by Maleficent_Plankton. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by Maleficent_Plankton. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

johnsom3

Trust them to not screw you. If you have a dispute with them, they control all the power. Im not saying you have to like the use case, but one of the biggest features of blockchain is thats its a system that doesnt require you to trust your counterparty. Take escrow for example. Thats a system that allows you to trade or do business with me without having to trust my word. But that system makes you trust the escrow holder(3rd party). In a blockchain, the 3rd party is the database. Neither party has control over it, so they cant assert power over the other party. Does every database have to be a DLT? No, right now its good for specific applications. the vast majority of the time a centralized database is the optimal route to take.

paidzesthumor

Fully agree with the liquidity argument. All things equal, tokenization makes illiquid assets more liquid. **Where and how does tokenization make sense?** Supply chain financing is another good example: There's a lot of overhead today managing accounts receivables collateralization. Tracking ownership to invoices and settlement of those transactions is a pain. Asset tokenization could make that much easier to manage. Tokenization makes it trivial to understand who holds title based on who holds the tokens (rather than digging through collateralization agreements). And not only does it make it easier, but deeper liquidity could theoretically help reduce the spreads between invoice face value and re-sale value through market driven price discovery. Tokenization also makes it possible for supply chain and logistics to be more natively executed with smart contracts. Currently, it is complex for large corporations to manage invoicing T&Cs, especially if they need to be compliant with terms in an MSA. It is not uncommon for these MSAs to be a pdf stored in some siloed system that few people even know exist. Tokenization of goods could make it possible to allow smart contracts to govern and execute supply chain business events while ensuring that such transactions are only executed under the T&Cs codified in the smart contract. ​ >Huge institutions have spent millions trying to bring this new technology to global adoption and failed. The Australian stock exchange has closed operation since end of 2022 after writing off $170M. I have a more nuanced opinion on this. The deficiencies noted in the report are (1) absence of appropriate design artefacts, rigour, or inconsistent design discipline (2) latency, exacerbated by complex architecture (3) entity centralization / SPoF (4) poor Ledger API service quality (5) poor disaster recovery / tech debt inhibiting DR (6) tech debt inhibiting future performance scaling (7) limited knowledge base in workforce I would argue 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 are all organization challenges specific to ASX. 3 is a lack of willingness to adopt an operational model conducive to the advantages of DLT and / or poor strategic thinking around use case application. 4 is choosing the wrong vendor for the job. None of these observations are specific to tokenization infrastructure. I've seen several enterprise resource planning implementations go sideways for some or all of the above.

atlasarman

You're right to point out the sustainability issue 👍👍👍 Every single one of the brands that we'd worked with up to this point always looks at sustainability and carbon footprint (energy consumption) as two of the key issues they want to address when it comes to Web3. The initiatives for a lot of fashion houses in Web3 up to this point have been more on the experimental side... a way for them to learn more about Web3 and blockchain. Having said that, we see tangible benefits **blockchain brings to the table when it comes to proof-of-ownership. Counterfeit cost the fashion industry in multi-billion dollars.** The immutable nature and DLT (distributed ledger tech) can really go a long way in addressing counterfeit issues. While there are never a 100% foolproof way of preventing counterfeit, proof-of-ownership makes it a lot safer especially for buyers of luxury from the grey market or the secondary market. This is all still early and as mentioned, a learning process for everyone in the industry... but all signs point to seeing blockchain bringing a positive impact to the fashion industry.

BradyatHedera

Hedera is advocating for policies that enable innovation while protecting consumers in the crypto industry. They have engaged with various government agencies to provide feedback on crypto regulations: [**Department of Commerce on Developing a Framework for Competitiveness in Digital Assets**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/05/19/2022-10731/developing-a-framework-on-competitiveness-of-digital-asset-technologies) Public implementation of digital asset technology requires a cryptographically secure method of compensating all of the decentralized infrastructure providers fairly. current U.S. regulatory landscape hinders the competitiveness of U.S. digital asset businesses due to the uncertain application and incompatibility of existing laws and regulations to digital assets and their underlying infrastructure. [**White House Office of Science and Technology Policy**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/25/2022-06284/request-for-information-on-the-energy-and-climate-implications-of-digital-assets) Covers two major themes: the use of DLT to build trusted sustainability markets and the energy footprint of various DLT technologies. [**U.S. Treasury on Responsible Development of Digital Assets (Illicit Finance)**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/20/2022-20279/ensuring-responsible-development-of-digital-assets-request-for-comment) The Council discussed a recent sanction on virtual currency mixer Tornado Cash and how it created substantial uncertainty for developers and DLT network participants to understand the scope of sanctions enforcement and to control for such outcomes and liabilities. [**U.S. Treasury on Responsible Development of Digital Assets (Markets)**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/20/2022-20279/ensuring-responsible-development-of-digital-assets-request-for-comment) The Hedera Governing Council responded to the U.S. Department of the Treasury's Request for Comment on the responsible development of digital assets. [**SEC RFC on the Notice of Proposed Amendments to Exchange Act Rule 3b-16 Regarding the Definition of “Exchange”**](https://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-02-22/s70222-204339-411102.pdf) Expressed concerns about the unintended negative consequences that the proposed amendment would have on the DLT industry in the US. The Council believes that the amendment could potentially capture various parties, such as developers, protocol governors, DLT network validators, internet service providers, digital asset creators, liquidity providers, and IT service providers, as liable members of the "group of persons" who "make available" a "communications protocol" that acts as an exchange. The Council also pointed out that the proposal would fundamentally change the role of DLT network validators from message recording systems to intermediaries of network activities, extending liability for securities exchange activities to infrastructure providers, such as DLT network validators. [**Digital Assets Research and Development (White House OSTP and NSF)**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/01/26/2023-01534/request-for-information-digital-assets-research-and-development) Additional research, development, and testing of digital identity implementations are necessary to ensure a balance between privacy protection and mitigation of illicit finance while promoting democracy, equity, and fairness. [**CFTC RFI on Climate-Related Financial Risks**](https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8541-22) The Council and the HBAR Foundation believe that carbon credit tokens issued on well-governed public DLT platforms are a key component of the mission to bring the balance sheet of the planet to the public ledger. Hedera recommends policy principles like enabling growth of public DLT networks and their native assets, incentivizing Web3 adoption, and allowing experimentation by regulators. They aim to educate policymakers on the benefits of DLT/blockchain and advocate for supportive regulations that foster an open and competitive web3.

ErmaGherd12

Hedera is advocating for policies that enable innovation while protecting consumers in the crypto industry. They have engaged with various government agencies to provide feedback on crypto regulations: * [**White House Office of Science and Technology Policy**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/03/25/2022-06284/request-for-information-on-the-energy-and-climate-implications-of-digital-assets) \- Covers two major themes: the use of DLT to build trusted sustainability markets and the energy footprint of various DLT technologies. * [**U.S. Treasury on Responsible Development of Digital Assets (Markets)**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/20/2022-20279/ensuring-responsible-development-of-digital-assets-request-for-comment) \- The Hedera Governing Council responded to the U.S. Department of the Treasury's Request for Comment on the responsible development of digital assets. * [**Department of Commerce on Developing a Framework for Competitiveness in Digital Assets**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/05/19/2022-10731/developing-a-framework-on-competitiveness-of-digital-asset-technologies) \- Public implementation of digital asset technology requires a cryptographically secure method of compensating all of the decentralized infrastructure providers fairly. current U.S. regulatory landscape hinders the competitiveness of U.S. digital asset businesses due to the uncertain application and incompatibility of existing laws and regulations to digital assets and their underlying infrastructure. * [**U.S. Treasury on Responsible Development of Digital Assets (Illicit Finance)**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/09/20/2022-20279/ensuring-responsible-development-of-digital-assets-request-for-comment) \- The Council discussed a recent sanction on virtual currency mixer Tornado Cash and how it created substantial uncertainty for developers and DLT network participants to understand the scope of sanctions enforcement and to control for such outcomes and liabilities. * [**Digital Assets Research and Development (White House OSTP and NSF)**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/01/26/2023-01534/request-for-information-digital-assets-research-and-development) \- Additional research, development, and testing of digital identity implementations are necessary to ensure a balance between privacy protection and mitigation of illicit finance while promoting democracy, equity, and fairness. * [**CFTC RFI on Climate-Related Financial Risks**](https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8541-22) \- The Council and the HBAR Foundation believe that carbon credit tokens issued on well-governed public DLT platforms are a key component of the mission to bring the balance sheet of the planet to the public ledger. * [**SEC RFC on the Notice of Proposed Amendments to Exchange Act Rule 3b-16 Regarding the Definition of “Exchange”**](https://www.sec.gov/comments/s7-02-22/s70222-204339-411102.pdf) \- Expressed concerns about the unintended negative consequences that the proposed amendment would have on the DLT industry in the US. The Council believes that the amendment could potentially capture various parties, such as developers, protocol governors, DLT network validators, internet service providers, digital asset creators, liquidity providers, and IT service providers, as liable members of the "group of persons" who "make available" a "communications protocol" that acts as an exchange. The Council also pointed out that the proposal would fundamentally change the role of DLT network validators from message recording systems to intermediaries of network activities, extending liability for securities exchange activities to infrastructure providers, such as DLT network validators. Hedera recommends policy principles like enabling growth of public DLT networks and their native assets, incentivizing Web3 adoption, and allowing experimentation by regulators. They aim to educate policymakers on the benefits of DLT/blockchain and advocate for supportive regulations that foster an open and competitive web3.

CointestMod

#Hedera Pro-Arguments Below is a Hedera pro-argument written by Maleficent_Plankton. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** Hedera is governed by a permissioned council of 26 (up to 39) companies. It was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > I had to dig pretty hard to find Pros arguments for Hedera. > > **High performance** > > - Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is very fast. > - Hedera [was a 10 TPS smart contract network](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), but that changed after Smart Contracts 2.0 and Hedera Token Service were released in early 2022. Its network is currently not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS with [smart contract transactions throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Theoretically, that is very fast, but keep in mind that we don't have any real metrics of what Hedera's network would look like under full DeFi load. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1 depending on the contract, but that's still cheaper than Ethereum (as long as the Hedera network is being subsidized by high inflation). > - Hedera has [extremely low energy consumption](https://hedera.com/blog/power-transition-blockchain-sustainability-hedera-hashgraph), using up ~1% of the energy consumption of the average US household. > > **Strong niche following** > > - Hedera is a **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA) network. It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council members each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - The concept of being controlled by a conglomerate of tech companies clashes with the cypherpunk movement. **However, Hedera supporters truly believe that this is the ideal decentralized network because they believe a > consortium of publicly-known companies will never collude and misbehave, risking damage to reputation.** There aren't many PoA networks of this design, so it barely has any direct competitors. It has cornered this niche market. After visiting the Hedera sub, it is evident that they truly love their network and will defend it to the bone. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

Impressive_Remote217

Use DLT and IOT and they can trust you a little bit more. Walmart , Charmin , trucking company, truck driver, janitor , and research scientist could all download and have more trust. Simple task could trigger multiple blocks for different chains.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Backed Finance has issued blB01, a tokenized short-term US treasury bond ETF on Base, Coinbase's layer-2 network. This will be the first tokenized security available on Base and will comply with Switzerland's DLT Act. The token is fully collateralized and transferable across wallets, with the underlying asset being the iShares Treasury Bond 0-1yr UCITS ETF. Backed Finance plans to tokenize more securities based on client demand. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

CointestMod

#Hedera Con-Arguments Below is a Hedera con-argument written by Maleficent_Plankton. > Hedera Hashgraph is Delware Limited Liability Company. > > **It's also a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual voting.** This is the same as Fantom, which is also a a Directed Acyclic Graph DLT that uses a leaderless asynchronous BFT algorithm with virtual elections. The main difference between the two is that Hedera is governed by a permissioned Council of 26 (up to 39) while Fantom is mostly decentralized. > > Hedera has [3-5 second deterministic finality](https://hedera.com/hbar), which is noticeably slower than Fantom's 2-second finality, but is still very fast. > > Hedera was launched in 2019 as a centralized DLT targeting institutional and enterprise companies. It is not meant for the retail sector and has almost no DeFi activity. > > ##Semi-Centralized Proof-of-Authority DLT > > - Hedera uses **Proof-of-Authority** (PoA). It has [semi-centralized governance](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/core-concepts/hashgraph-consensus-algorithms) controlled by the 26 (up to 39) members of the governing council, made up of [publicly-known companies](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes), and the 7 board of directors. The council each control their own permissioned validator used for consensus. > - New members of the [council are approved by majority vote](https://files.hedera.com/Hedera_COUNCIL-OVERVIEW_2022_JUNE.pdf), and existing ones may be removed by 2/3 vote. Council members can serve 3-9 years consecutively before they have to take a 3-year break. > - There are barely any public details about the staking power of any of the nodes. There is also a Nothing-at-Stake issue because there is no slashing or economic punishments. They may get kicked kicked off the council for misbehaving, but there's no economic disincentive. > - The code was proprietary software that no one was allowed to fork, and it was closed source up until 2022. > - Its nodes have extremely [high enterprise-level requirements](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/mainnet-nodes/node-requirements). 5 TB NVMe drives, a $10K NVIDIA Telsa V100 GPU, a 1 Gbps sustained network, Google Cloud Compute Engine VM. These specs are so high that they completely outclass Solana validator requirements. > - Every node has a dedicated GCP IP address, making Google Cloud Platform a possible a single point failure for outages. > > Hedera is designed to be controlled by a conglomerate. Hedera supporters truly believe that is still considered decentralized because they do not believe it's likely publicly-known companies will collude and misbehave. I do not think that design fits well with the crypto community, but acknolwedge that there is a niche community that embraces Proof-of-Authority. > > ##Untrustworthy documentation > > * Much of Hedera's documentation isn't based on the current state of Hedera Hashgraph, but on its ideal state. > * It says it has [a fully decentralized governing body](https://hedera.com/prescription)", which is misleading since they use a 26-member pre-authorized Governing Council. > * It calls itself a "[proof-of-stake public distributed ledger](https://hedera.com/learning/hedera-hashgraph/what-is-hedera-hashgraph)", but it's actually controlled by the governing council and uses Proof-of-Authority. The public hasn't been able to stake (other than the questionable "proxy staking") on it since Hedera's launch 3 years ago. > * For comparison, VeChain is more decentralized than Hedera Hashgraph with its 101 authority nodes and [publicly-available data on their nodes](https://vechainstats.com/authority-nodes/). But at least VeChain is honest about being Proof-of-Authority and even calls itself a [compromise between centralization and decentralization](https://docs.vechain.org/thor/learn/proof-of-authority.html) in their documentation. > * **Real Throughput**: 10K TPS is extremely misleading because it doesn't take into account EVM smart contracts. It published those metrics in 2019, when the smart contact throughput [was 10 TPS](https://ercwl.medium.com/hedera-hashgraph-time-for-some-fud-9e6653c11525), and that was the throughput for Hedera up until Smart Contracts 2.0 released in early 2022. > * Unfortunately, there are no good real estimations for max throughput because Hedera lacks dApps and is a ghost town. It's not congested and regularly sees 5-30 TPS without dApps, so it doesn't get pushed to its limits. With the introduction of Hedera Token Service, Hedera has now somewhat caught up to the misleading documentation it had for 3 years. HTS has an upper limit of 10K TPS, but not everything is going to use it, and [smart contract transactions are throttled at 350 TPS](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet). Some actions, like TopicCreate and AccountCreate transactions on Hedera are down to 2-5 TPS. We don't know what a real performance is going to look like until Hedera builds up its DeFi presence. What we do know is that it's going to be well below 10K TPS and that it was dishonest with throughput documentation prior this year. > > > ##Horrible Tokenomics > > - There is 38% expected supply inflation in 2022, 50% inflation in 2023, and a [whopping 83% inflation in 2024](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule). I'm very skeptical that the retail sector investing in Hedera is aware of how quickly the circulating supply is increasing and has priced that in. > - Only 42% of the supply has currently been released, guaranteeing high inflation for years down the line > - Hedera very likely passes the Howey Test and would be considered a security asset. It is controlled by a council of 26 companies with a large investment of staked HBAR. Holders of HBAR have an expectation of profit derived from the work of Hedera Hashgraph. > - Nearly [50% of the supply](https://messari.io/asset/hedera-hashgraph/profile/supply-schedule) has gone to employees and the foundation. The majority of the rest (40%) is going to the Hedera Treasury. > - The tokenomics a lot like a giant cash grab ICO that will have years of high inflation. That's extremely scary for a retail investor. > - The 50B token maximum should not be trusted at all and likely will not hold. Those validator nodes that control governance are not cheap and will not run themselves freely once the supply limit is reached. By putting an arbitrarily-high supply, they've simply pushed governance change for tokenomics to be dealt with in the future. > > ##Other > > - DeFi is practically non-existent on Hedera, not surprising since it was built centralized. According to both DefiLlama and DappRadar, Hedera has only one notable DeFi project: Stader. Hedera's [total DeFi TVL of $40M](https://defillama.com/chain/Hedera) is less than 1000x smaller than [Ethereum's](https://defillama.com/chains) and 25x smaller than the nearly-identical Fantom's, which has over 100 DeFi projects on it. > - Hedera uses a [predictable fee schedule](https://docs.hedera.com/guides/mainnet/fees). Token transfers are very cheap at $0.0001. Smart contracts gas fees are considerably more expensive at $0.05 to $1. That's actually really expensive for a 25-node centralized service, but the high fees aren't too surprising because it uses EVM, which is known to be inefficient. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_hedera) to find submissions for other topics.

Aconyminomicon

They are eventually going to crack down on blockchain. There is better DLT that is actually carbon negative and in line with coming regulations. This click bait bullsh\*t does have some truth to it but I do think this day will come.

Giga79

>ironic. you are definitely ignorant. the ownership of the trust, or the owner of the LLC, are both public record and can be looked up. it's actually pretty ridiculous you don't think they are. So you will learn my lawyer holds rights to 200 properties, not knowing that's my lawyer. Great job, detective. I guess the entire legal team going after SBF's property troves must be totally corrupt, really, they should've hired you. >it's not illegal. Domestic surveillance is and always has been illegal in the US. It inhibits Free Speech which is a human right embedded in the Constitution. Everything Snowden leaked was scandalous *because* it was illegal... >a bank account is a private permissioned record, whereas a DLT is public permissionless. a bank doesn't obfuscate anything. it's just not public. it also complies with KYC and AML. My Tornado Cash transaction is a private permissioned record, you see? Tornado Cash complied with KYC AML too, by allowing you to cryptographically prove the coins you took out were indeed yours to own, taking up like half their UI space. Just because I have *the option* to circumvent KYC doesn't mean I must, I'm not a criminal I only want privacy from the public. >there is a difference which you understand but are playing dumb with me. the post on tiktok is public, just like your transaction. your private internal account information, like a password, is not, just like your seed phrase is not. Yes so when I make my transaction or any data behave the same way as a password, I expect the same rights to be had as with my passwords ie privacy. It's really not that difficult to understand. I'm free to obfuscate my data in non-criminal ways for non-criminal reasons, and that doesn't make me a criminal except you think it should, I can only assume my passwords should be made public too following that.

MinimumBread1600

>Ignorance. You can hold property in a trust you own that isn't associated with you publically, using $1000 and any common lawyer. There are dozens of ways to obfuscate property assets, and it's very common practice. Why? Because privacy, not wanting your home address public is enough justification. RE is a ridiculous example to use. Learn what an LLC is. Look at your public records and see. ironic. you are definitely ignorant. the ownership of the trust, or the owner of the LLC, are both public record and can be looked up. it's actually pretty ridiculous you don't think they are. >There is a difference between public facing and personal data. Yes I'm upset about illegal and domestic surveillance of personal data, really, you aren't? It was a massive scandal, you don't care? **it's not illegal.** >Dense. It's not worth my time to explain how the Internet's data is kept private to someone, or how a bank obfuscating your fiat balance is no different than a DLT in that regard. a bank account is a *private permissioned* record, whereas a DLT is *public permissionless*. a bank doesn't obfuscate *anything*. it's just not *public*. it also complies with KYC and AML. >You know there's a difference between a public TikTok video and the private and secured account which was used to upload it, yet you are being this obtuse anyway. there is a difference which you understand but are playing dumb with me. the post on tiktok is public, just like your transaction. your private internal account information, like a password, is not, just like your seed phrase is not.

Giga79

Ignorance. You can hold property in a trust you own that isn't associated with you publically, using $1000 and any common lawyer. There are dozens of ways to obfuscate property assets, and it's very common practice. Why? **Because privacy**, not wanting your home address public is enough justification. RE is a ridiculous example to use. Learn what an LLC is. Look at your public records and see. There is a difference between public facing and personal data. Yes I'm upset about illegal and domestic surveillance of personal data, really, you aren't? It was a massive scandal, you don't care? When I obfuscate my personal data prior to uploading it, that doesn't mean it's inherently public facing data or the public has intrinsic rights to it because *it's online*. That's stupid logic people who don't understand the internet grasp onto. >so you wrote that essay, but processing a financial transaction on a public DLT, warrants the same expectation of privacy, such as when you make a tiktok, which is absolutely nothing. Dense. It's not worth my time to explain how the Internet's data is kept private to someone, or how a bank obfuscating your fiat balance is no different than a DLT in that regard. You *know* there's a difference between a TikTok video and the user who owns that secure account, yet you are being this obtuse anyway. I'm not going to argue with you. We will just have to wait and see which power wins in the end, *people* or their surveillance state, place your bets!

aminok

You absolutely have an expectation of privacy on a DLT when you encrypt your transactions. The public should never be forbidden from encrypting their transactions.

MinimumBread1600

a public DLT is a public record. you don't have an expectation of privacy. property ownership, like owning a home, is also public record. and unsurprisingly, you have no expectation of privacy under that domain either. further cryptocurrency transactions are commerce, and therefore subject to KYC and AML. I cannot imagine any legal reason to attempt to obfuscate ownership of your home. perhaps you don't want to pay property tax? even further, your arguments regarding the internet are totally misleading. the patriot act allows police to wiretap and observe your internet activity without a warrant, which I understand you're upset about. **however**, even without the patriot act, the government does not need a warrant to read your posts on social media, e.g. on 'meta' or 'x'. so you wrote that essay, but processing a financial transaction on a public DLT, warrants the same expectation of privacy, such as when you make a tiktok, which is absolutely nothing.

Giga79

We already went over this, I thought, in the 90s... The US government developed encryption, people began exporting it (without borders) across the Internet, and so the US classified encryption as a type of munition. The US wanted backdoors while claiming encryption was a threat to national security, since adversaries were by then using it. Long story short, the US lost their case, and instead the public's privacy was considered. Now we had completely novel things emerge like user accounts, password protected accounts, secure email, E2E encrypted messaging apps, and digital commerce. Had the judge sided your way in the 90s then eBay, Reddit, Facebook, WhatsApp, Google, YouTube wouldn't have been possible, and we'd still be writing bouncing cheques to each other. The Internet is open by default, too, might I remind you. Cryptocurrency is short for cryptographic currency, and the same thing keeping my Gmail password and emails hidden is the same thing keeping my private key hidden and I can just as easily use the same crypto to obfuscate my transactional data. There is no *default* in a decentralized network, it's frequently changing based on individuals needs, and nothing prohibits me from changing it myself to suit my own needs. You literally can't gatekeep permissionless tech. People still use Tornado Cash. For example Aztec is using ZK encryption inside of a ZK shell, for data obfuscation, and since this exists on Ethereum as an L2 and Ethereum's roadmap is, a L2 Centric Ethereum, that *is* the *default* way to use Ethereum (otherwise it is prohibitively expensive). Not fundamentally any different than using salt to hash your passwords is the default way to store passwords. On Ethereum's own roadmap, the Ethereum Virtual machine will be replaced by a ZK-EVM soon as it becomes viable, obfuscating all data by default (ZK stands for zero knowledge FYI). And as soon as next year L1 validators won't be required to store historical data on L2's at all anymore. If your issue is that these ledgers are public and immutable, I promise you they don't need to be and practically can't be at scale, people won't have any choice but to succumb to *the horrors of financial privacy*. https://web.archive.org/web/20130616165334/http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/950403/archive_010975.htm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars https://www.american.edu/sis/centers/security-technology/encryption.cfm https://simpleprogrammer.com/part-19-bernstein-vs-united-states/ >you have no expectation of privacy using a public DLT. You have a right to privacy inside your home. If you take your trash to the public curb, you no longer have that right and someone is able to snoop through the public's trash. That is where the law ends. When things started to be put online, like our emails and passwords and credit card credentials, the government automatically and wrongly assumed that we were taking out our trash so they must have free reign over ALL data we produce - this was highly contested in the 90s, less so today. Every year we produce more and more data, and every year the government and big tech's ability to snoop through it increases - often using it in malicious ways against us, to manipulate our behaviours/shopping habits, to short the stocks we long, etc.. This isn't a change to be taken lightly if you just look at tech trends for a minute. If you want to simp for *fewer rights* than we already had, or simp for MAGA SCOTUS decisions, be my guest. Increasingly secure and permissionless encryption is already public now, regardless of your ideals.

MinimumBread1600

you are using a public permissionless DLT. the transactions are immutable and publicly available by default. you have no expectation of privacy using a public DLT. further from your link >The Constitution of the United States and United States Bill of Rights do not explicitly include a right to privacy. >...Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization later overruled Roe v. Wade, in part due to the Supreme Court finding that the right to privacy was not mentioned in the constitution, leaving the future validity of these decisions uncertain. your counterargument regarding north korea is a poorly formed strawman.

kazkdp

Hey I agree with your end statement, and not gonna lie I had some time and the link you provided was excellent. I guess if I frame it this way. You say it can run on a fairly cheap p board thus maximize the amount of people who can run a node. I'm saying the same thing, but from a poteto. Will I therefore have the better DLT? As Im sure at least 80% of the population of earth can afford one poteto? Down side is ofcoz my system is very slow.... Ultimately the point I'm trying to make is. Hedera is planning to be a 100 year company. In 10 years all so those high end node requirements will be just a normal PC.... its built to be useful in the future... Also, genuinely interested in knowing. What's the point of Eth and it's (honestly not being a dick ) impressive decentralisation if most people using it would have to reply on a 3rd party ? IE Polly or some rollups ? Thanks 👍

kazkdp

But but but...... To be of any real use you need a L2 or another service. They DO NOT Run on pie and is controld by few rich people. Like getting a bicycle and towing it everywhere using a Hummer. Also stop with this raspberry pi shit, the world has moved on, why use old tech when you can use something new? Its not like people use raspberry pi as a main PC.... there is a reason for that. I can use potetoes I guess to run a DLT. It just dose one transaction a week but hey... anyone can run a spud bud!!! HowEeVeR That don't make it a smart choice.

kazkdp

Ohhhh copy pasta game! I'm in. 1- what about the universites and other companies that on the GC? There is a term limit so after that they are out? What's wrong with model? At least Google isn't going to take 10 million bribe to f up the network, can you say the same about the magical core engineering teams working on other chains? 2- go back a year and @ 50tps people said it's one big entity that's doing all the tps. That was a advertising platform, now a bigger one has started using it and guess what, people saying it's only the new entity that's doing all the tps.... its a matter of time before another one takes over. When Hyundai and TCB comes online you will change the statement again.... everything is however slowly adding up. 3- let's pretend you made a amazing price of software. That's better then anything in the world. NASA jumps in and starts using your software. It takes years for for them to start using it to get their systems to integrate and train the people ... So is it your fault? What smoke and mirrors? Big usecaees such as the the coupon bureau is now finally live but the roll of this scale takes time, it's not just bunch of pictures a company decided to sell.... 4-Hedera made it public that the biggest eco system development fund of any crypto is going to change the industry and bring people in. They are doing just that, what wrong with incentives anyway? Its not like other companies and business don't do this in the real world? even other crypto dose this, mind you it all just comes back to the DLT as payments anyway! Its a win win. The point is to grow the whole web3 and crypto industry and go beyond monkey pictures.... 5- Eth can have 100,000 developers working on it or a million, point is everything can be done , cheaper and faster in a greener way on Hedera. Eth isn't going to die or get killed off because of the growth and current first mover advantage... however there has been many projects jumping ship to hedera and other DLTs. Its not however is going the other way....

Rimmytingler

The tokenization of real world assets is inevitable with the transparency and effectiveness of DLT

kazkdp

1- what about the universites and other comparations that on the GC? There is a term limit so after that they are out? What's wrong with model? At least Google isn't going to take 10 million bribe to f up the network, can you say the same about the magical core engineering team working on other chains? 2- go back a year and the 50tps people said it's one big entity that's doing all the tps. That was a advertising platform, now a bigger one has started using it and guess what, people saying it's only the new entity that's doing all the tps.... its a matter of time before another one takes over. 3- let's pretend you made a amazing price of software. That's better then anything in the world. NASA jumps in and starts using your software. It takes years for for them to start using it to get their systems to integrate and train the people ... So is it your fault? What smoke and mirrors? Big usecaees such as the the coupon bureau is now finally live but the roll of this scale takes time, it's not just bunch of pictures a company decided to sell.... 4-Hedera made it public that the biggest eco system development fund of any crypto is going to change the industry and bring people in. They are doing just that, what wrong with incentives anyway? Its not like other companies and even crypto dose this... also it all just comes back to the DLT as payments anyway! 5- Eth can have 100,000 developers working on it or a million, point is everything can be done , cheaper and faster in a greener way on Hedera. Eth isn't going to die or get killed off. the fact that big comparations trust a DLT enough to run the coupon industry of the USA will bring in more transections which= more network revenue.

imfrombiz

I don't say anything. DLT is inevitable and they will be using it whether they know it or not. I furthermore think that trustless and immutable transactions are inevitable as well.