Reddit Posts
How Much More Private Can ZK Get? An Order of Magnitude
If DeFi is not casually providing you with financial services that were almost exclusive to the elites, it’s not DeFi
No matter how cool your L1 blockchain sounds, maybe don’t release it until you figure out scaling!
Ethereum is great but in its current form it has no chance of going mainstream without L2s
Ethereum is great but in its current form it has no chance of going mainstream without L2s
Polygon essentially invested in almost every possible scaling solution from ZK to Optimistic to PoS
Polygon essentially invested in almost every possible scaling solution from ZK to Optimistic to PoS
Although we are starting to see corporations and enterprises begin to adopt web3. Despite this there is still massive room for growth, what’s stopping massive enterprises from adopting web3?
Polygon Nightfall goes live on Mainnet - Optimistic-ZK L2 hybrid for Enterprises
Polygon Rolling Out 'Revolutionary' Hermez 2.0 ZK Rollup - CryptosRus
For those who are panicking about the future of crypto, you are only panicking about the future prices. The fundamentals are still intact. This leaked email by Sandeep Nail proves it
For those who are panicking about the future of crypto, you are only panicking about the future prices. The fundamentals are still intact. This leaked email by Sandeep Nail.
When it comes to zero knowledge proofs, how does it practically work in a private chain?
Optimism's airdrops are why I don't yet believe it is ready for user adoption or mass adoption for that matter.
Few drops of knowledge of ZK-Proof and future of blockchain applications.
Every single chain and technology NEEDS to have a bug bounty program. It's one of the best ways to improve your technologies security.
AMA with Matter Labs, the team behind zkSync: a zk rollup scaling protocol for Ethereum.
Polygon Announces New ZK-Proof-Based Identity Solution. A month after partnering with Adobe.
Polygon Announces New ZK-Proof-Based Identity Solution
What is your level of knowledge? I made different levels so you can know it
India's regressive crypto tax laws kick in from 1st April.. Monero P2P platforms are already seeing a boom
Loot On StarkNet: ZK-Rollups Enter Blockchain Gaming
Mentions
These are not 51 different teams doing grunt work. There are 51 different teams working on cutting-edge technology, each trying their own approach to a ZK virtual machine.
You can swap in and out of fiat when you need fiat using ZK peer-to-peer swaps.
tldr; A hacker who exploited Ethereum scaling protocol ZKsync's airdrop contract, stealing nearly $5 million, has returned the funds within a 72-hour deadline after accepting a 10% bounty offer. The recovered assets, including over 44.6 million ZK tokens and nearly 1,800 ETH, are now under the custody of the ZKsync Security Council. ZKsync confirmed that user funds were never at risk and plans to release a final investigation report. The incident highlights ongoing security challenges in the crypto sector, with significant losses reported in 2024 due to hacks and exploits. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Open ZK, this thing will revolutionise the ETH network
If it gives 50x execution performance gains with ZK scaling, it's worth it. Sounds like they want to make this backwards compatible. Same opcodes but with a different engine. Obviously not going to be easy, and probably done with a decade-long timeline.
tldr; The article proposes replacing Ethereum's EVM with RISC-V as the virtual machine language for smart contracts to improve efficiency, scalability, and simplicity. The transition would maintain existing Ethereum features like accounts and storage, while enabling contracts to be written in languages like Rust or Solidity. The change could significantly enhance ZK-EVM proving efficiency and reduce bottlenecks in Ethereum's execution layer. However, challenges include potential performance issues for block building and execution, and the technical complexity of implementing such a shift. The proposal raises questions about Ethereum's priorities, particularly balancing L1 execution improvements with L2 enablement. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
ETH will be a monster if they figure out ZK proofs.
**TLDR: I think ETH is the reality that many L1s will face.** These tokens (L1s, L2s, really a lot of tokens) aren't securities. They pay no dividends. Any yield offered is inflationary. They don't entitle you to chain/protocol cash flows. They're just paper clips and post-it notes: critical infrastructure but nobody is paying $1000 for a box of paper clips just because they're important. Nobody buys an 8-pack of post-it notes for $500 because they're a key part of running an office. That could totally be how non-security tokens play out. Right now, the selling point is mostly, "we got some nerds in a back room doing cool stuff, so we're cool. Our token is cool. You should buy it if you want to be cool too." I think that selling point is over with for ETH and probably every L1/L2 eventually will run out of hype. At that point it's just, "you're the [xth] smart contract blockchain. All of you offer low cost, high speed, blah blah. All of you are cooking up some tech... tech probably to make it even cheaper to use so there's even less value to capture. Why do you deserve a price premium and what, outside of general market trends for crypto/risk assets, would give you price appreciation?" If the only answer is something like, "I mean, pfft, it's ETH" or "Lol, SOL is the future" or some technobabble gobbledygook about Firedancing protodankkiefhash sharding ZK being the future of the same shit we can already do on-chain right now for dirt cheap already... that's not compelling. Imo at least.
tldr; Hackers targeted Ethereum scaling protocol ZKsync, stealing $5 million in ZK tokens due to a compromised administrative account linked to an airdrop. ZKsync assured users that funds and the protocol remain secure, attributing the breach to a compromised key in the airdrop contract. The ZK token's value dropped but partially recovered. The incident highlights ongoing security challenges in the crypto space, where hacks are increasingly common, affecting both decentralized and centralized platforms. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Cardano can be the L2 for Bitcoin, don't need another token - it uses the eUTXO model, an enhanced version of BTC's UTXO.. Trustless through ZK Snark proofs . .
Yes, but with challenges. Why? Bridges solve a real problem—moving assets across chains seamlessly. Multi-chain ecosystems are growing, making interoperability essential. Security remains a big issue (hacks, exploits), but better tech (ZK, MPC) is improving safety. Some chains aim to eliminate bridges (e.g., Cosmos, Polkadot), but not all projects can move to one ecosystem. Liquidity, speed, and security will decide which bridges last.
**Anna Rose** Anna Rose is one of the main links between the highly academic world of Zero Knowledge research and the average, less technically specialized user. She is basically involved in Zero Knowledge everything... * Podcast: https://zeroknowledge.fm/episodes/ * Conferences: https://www.zksummit.com/ * Jobs board: https://jobsboard.zeroknowledge.fm/ If you are interested in this 'ZK' stuff that you have heard will be the next big thing, but don't have a PhD in Cryptography then you are potentially easy prey for the shills of countless projects, who will use buzzwords and bullshit to convince you to buy into things you don't fully understand. Anna's content will give you the knowledge to know your SNARKs from your STARKs, and your PLONK from your Plonky2, so you can have a better chance of picking the really promising projects from those that just have a big marketing budget or desperate bagholders. * Zero Knowledge: Privacy and Transparency's Beautiful Co-existence [DevCon 5]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wMoV8G2118
**Mary Maller** Dr Maller is a ZK researcher at the Ethereum Foundation; and not 'researcher' as in *"I did my own research by watching someone shill their shitcoin on Youtube"*, but 'researcher' as in *"constantly publishing in academic journals on cutting edge cryptographic topics"*. We are already starting to see the early excitement build up around ZKEVMs and other zero knowledge projects, the odds are that any you happen upon will be built on top of mathematics that Mary has contributed to. * https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gzHDMSYAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao * Scalability Solutions from zk SNARKs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4UfD4Mp6EM * The Roaring Twenties: Recent Advances in Zero-Knowledge Proofs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZAOt6_fZ1k
Who here is well-versed in fraud-proof protocols? Which fraud-proof system stands out in your opinion, and why? Major considerations are Arbitrum's BoLD, Optimism's OPFP, Cartesi's Dave, or Kroma's ZK Fault Proof. They all employ a certain approach to handling various attack vectors. Let's hear some thoughts!
And he's a Turing Award winner and inventer of ZK proof. More people around here should know who Silvio Micali is. Most wouldn't even be here without him.
ZK proofs make this stuff possible, and that's exactly what Worldcoin is doing. People can't see past the eyeball scanner and the useless WLD token, but I'm with OP that anonymous Proof of \[Whatever\] is one of the best blockchain use-cases.
Optimistic and ZK-Rollups are the future of Layer 2 scaling, but ZK-Rollups will eventually dominate due to their superior privacy and efficiency. Optimistic Rollups are just a stepping stone until ZK technology matures.
> Yet another roadmap steel by V and the team at ETH Cardano's ZK sidechain 'Midnight' was announced in November 2022. Ethereum's first privacy focused ZK based L2 was Nightfall. This was first announced in 2019, built in part by EY and adopted by Polygon, and which went into mainnet beta in May 2022 - https://github.com/EYBlockchain/nightfall_3/releases/tag/v2.0.0beta03 You may note that something released on mainnet in May 2022 is unlikely to have been stolen from a project that only announced in November 2022, and didn't even go into testnet until October 2024! https://cexplorer.io/article/midnight-testnet-is-live
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Just because you are distracted with fartcoins and your own greed doesn't mean anything for anybody else. ZK algorithms and sustaining decentralization will completely destroy the current status-quo. Educate yourself
With ZK rollups on Ethereum, the cost is miniscule, basically negligible.
> Aren't there any adults just talking like normal humans in this space, and not acting like a coked up hype man demanding I *SMASH* that like button? Here's my crypto podcast suggestions... none of which feature 'coked up hype men'! - **GreenPill** podcast for Public Goods related interviews: https://pod.link/1609313639 - **Infinite Jungle** for general Ethereum protocol updates: https://www.galaxy.com/insights/podcasts/infinite-jungle/ - **The Daily Gwei** for Ethereum ecosystem news: https://thedailygwei.libsyn.com/ - **Peep An EIP** for specific upgrades: https://www.ethcatherders.com/peepaneip - **Zero Knowledge** for (unsurprisingly) developments in ZK research and implementations: https://zeroknowledge.fm/podcast/ - **The Defiant** for wider crypto news and interviews: https://thedefiant.io/podcasts-and-videos/podcast
I use my governance power to propose we all buy $ZK
Binance right now: https://i.imgur.com/V8CU6ZK.png
Privacy is definitely making a comeback, and with everything on-chain being so transparent, it feels inevitable that more chains will lean into ZK tech. Projects like ALEO are pushing it forward, but it’s interesting to see other approaches too Anoma, which is integrating privacy with intent-based execution rather than just layering it on later. Feels like we’re heading toward a mix of both models rather than one dominating.
? Arbitrum doesn't use ZK for its fraud proofs yet.
Native rollups, ZK something, sharding, marding…. These buzz words float around since years! I think even Vitalik admitted that Ethereum is fundamentally broken. Teach me something different but from all major blockchains Ethereum is most likely to die out
Differences between rollups: * **Optimistic and ZK rollups**: Consensus, settlement, and data availability are on L1. Execution and sequencing are done on L2 * **Based Rollups**: Everything on L1 except for Execution Layer on L2 * **Native rollup**: Everything on L1 except for Sequencing on L2 Based rollups are easier to implement than native rollups, and they can help solve the issue of L2 fragmentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiKPlNGrUzU
NFA – My portfolio is diversified according to a specific percentage structure, which I will not disclose. However, here’s what I’ve been accumulating over the past 12–24 months and intend to carry into 2025: L2s: $ARB, $STRK, $ZK and $OP New L1s: $SUI and $APT DeFi: $DYDX & $GMX PS: + some allocations into $ZRO and Wormhole $W
ETH - decentralised world computer that will be the financial settlement layer of the internet RPL - an ETH staking token with revenue share and so the more that is staked, the better the token performs ZK - my pick of the ETH L2’s; zero knowledge proofs are fundamentally going to disrupt crypto for the better, and the token also had a favourable distribution compared to others That’s it. My focus is on understanding and high conviction, rather than spreading myself and just hoping for the best. UNI gets an honourable mention. I think once it gets revenue sharing it will pump like crazy, but it doesn’t have the best token distribution.
yeah hyperliquid is the big reason why i made this post. no its not the guides fault, i follow bunch of big names on twitter and they shared a lot of protocols to farm including hype, with my limited budget and time i chose to skip it since i already farmed other dex/trade aggregator protocol like orderly and logx, and unfortunately those two were shit. i also got some wins on LZ and ZK, but i already spent so much on gas and i think it’s a bit EV- overall
Time to shill the new bags! I'm expecting solid performances out of $ZK, $L3 and $TAO
TLOS for me. Community ran project, great tech with 0 downtime, EVM live for almost 5 years with EVM 2.0 recently going live. Price action could he better but John Lilic from Polygon + ETH recently became CEO. TelosX is an exchange going live in 2025 and they have also been developing ZK tech. For a project with a low market cap, they continue to develop good tech. Their EVM dApp ecosystem continues to grow.
The Bank of England's exploration of zero-knowledge proofs (ZK-proofs) for a digital pound is intriguing, especially since they emphasize user privacy while balancing regulatory needs. This aligns with their commitment to not accessing personal data, but as with any tech, there are limits to what can be achieved, highlighting the ongoing debate over privacy vs. compliance in the digital currency space. * [Digital Pound paper explores privacy enhancing ...](https://www.ledgerinsights.com/digital-pound-paper-explores-privacy-enhancing-technologies-for-cbdc/) * [Digital pound news - Bank of England](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/the-digital-pound/digital-pound-news) * [Response to the digital pound Technology Working Paper](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/paper/2024/response-to-the-digital-pound-technology-working-paper) ^(Hey there, I'm not a human \(sometimes I am :\) \). I fact-check content here and on other social media sites. If you want automatic fact-checks and fight misinformation on all content you browse,) [^(check us out.)](https://critiquebrowser.app)
tldr; The Bank of England is exploring the use of zero-knowledge proofs (ZK-proofs) and other privacy-enhancing technologies (PETs) to improve user privacy for a potential digital pound. These technologies could minimize data sharing with the central bank and payment intermediaries, giving users more control over their data. The bank, in collaboration with MIT's Digital Currency Initiative, is studying these technologies' potential and limitations, particularly in balancing privacy with regulatory compliance. The exploration of a digital pound began in 2020, with ongoing public consultations. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
\- Bitcoin is far more "capturable" and in my opinion has a moderate probability of this happening - read the substack in my bio to understand this in more detail - but the TLDR; is that as block subsidy rewards halve and tend towards zero there won't be enough fees to cover mining operations and ordinals and runes are great and providing nice fees today but i'd argue that this isn't the way to build a sustainable onchain economy as Bitcoin lacks the expressivity to have true L2s and smart contracts (and right now it all uses some level of additional trust assumption) and even with OP\_CAT added you still have a very clunky version of the elements to construct a rudimentary version of trustless L2 and smart contact (or ZK settlement) but even then because Bitcoin can only process 4MB of data per every 10 minutes, then it's bottleneck quickly becomes its data availability and we go right back into the blocksize wars again if you want to have a sustainable Bitcoin. So in this case you either fork bitcoin to make it more like ethereum, or you don't and then it's no longer profitable to mine bitcoin and it has to be mined at a loss and subsidized and it would most likely be subsidized by nation states and large corporations who are heavily allocated and building businesses on it, and at that stage this is the anthesis of Bitcoin because then mining is very centralized and loses it's ability to be censorship resistant. \- To address the JP Morgan and Blackrock "capture" can you be very explicit in what you mean by this because it lacks any hard substance. I know other than JP Morgan made investments into infrastructure businesses like Consensys and Blackrock who has an ETF product and has deployed a decentralized finance protocol on Ethereum called BUIDL which is a tokenized Tbill essentially (but this is bullish because they don't have any control over the protocol, they're using it just like any of us and deploying smart contacts). Can you be specific on what forms of capture or what you think is malicious that can happen here? \- Even entities like flashbots and other MEV based businesses can't censor blocks or produce an invalid state transition. They are capturing value but then there is also likely to be MEV burn introduced which would burn a majority of that ETH, most of the MEV goes to the individual block proposer anyway as MEV searchers bid up their block ordering bundle to win the bid from other bundles and this is sub 10% but there are some issues and improvements to be made here which are being worked on. Like multiple proposers and decentralized inclusion lists where the block builder can order the blocks however they like but they're forced to include all transactions in the pool list. Ultimately Ethereum has an ethos of being adaptive and a vision of making the substrate for the future global digital economy and is working to remove all currently obvious "hooks" that could centralize, censor, or disrupt the network. Please let me know if there's anything else I missed, these are all really good points you're bringing up and this is good discourse to have to correct any outdated information circulating.
You mention "staking is a centralized way of governance" but for Ethereum, there is no on-chain governance. No amount of stake you have validating under its PoS design will give you any right to dictate any element of governance. Anyone is welcome to participate so long as they do the research to understand the discussions ppl are having and bring good ideas of their own. Also today you can stake in a completely decentralized way with a small fraction of a validator with clusters and when the amount of ETH required to run a validator drops to 1e, then through these same technologies ppl will be able to stake with fractions of 1e, so the bar is very low. Also you can still contribute and be a node without spending or holding any ETH, you just don't get to propose blocks. I would actually argue that Ethereum is more decentralized than Bitcoin, but I'll admit that it's still up in the air. But node counts reported on ethernodes are off by a factor of 3x imo. Many Ethereum nodes are not publicly visible because they operate in private networks or behind firewalls (e.g., private staking setups, private relays for MEV), or they use tools like VPNs, NAT traversal, or are restricted to specific whitelisted peers. Furthermore, 98% of all Bitcoin nodes run the same client where Ethereum has a very distributed set of clients which is an overlooked but important vector of decentralization. Also you mention running nodes anonymously but this is actually not possible. For one block times are way too slow and resource intensive to run over something like Tor plus with proof of work you have a literal electricity footprint unlike running PoS off a laptop. Even Ethereum can't run nodes fully anonymously yet however with the concept of “snarkifying everything”, real time ZK ASIC provers, along with statelessness and data sampling this is possible which make being an ethereum node lightweight enough to viably run a node through something like tor. Even if you were able to infiltrate Lido for example and try to do a takeover, it still runs less than 1/3 of validators and wouldn't bring down the network. Once an attack is perform on Ethereum, the attacking ETH is slashed and gone and you have to acquire more ETH or infiltrate the next big entity to do another attack. With PoW you can't delete someone mining rig so they can continue to attack. The community can do a soft fork to recover but the attack can just soft fork as well and continue the attack. Ethereum is actually designed to be much more resilient here.
> I something specific interesting to know about HBAR and ALGO? I just got curious because the two names aren't mentioned a lot before BTC hit $100K. ALGO has a very intelligent founder, who built the foundation for ZK proofs. But they mismanaged a lot of funds and decimated a lot of early holders. A lot of ppl don't talk about it because they lost so much money on it. So I got curious how ppl started talking about it. HBAR is a weird asf chain. I would personally stay away from it.
There's actually no reliable way to accurately determine physical node count on Ethereum so the websites that try their best to do that are not accurate. No doubt there are centralizing forces with staking providers like Lido but those are actually decentralizing their operator set too. Also in a few years when we have real time ZK ASIC provers, along with statelessness and data sampling that means ppl will be able to run full validators from a mobile phone (stake requirement is dropping to 1e in the near term and then there are all of the providers that group ppl who want to solo stake with a fraction of 1 ETH). Also with dank sharding and data availability sampling (DAS) along with the above literally flips the scaling pyramid upside down (where normally the more nodes the slower and less a chain can scale) where in this case not every validator needs to process every tx and it can be split up so literally the more nodes the more scale. In terms of centralized governance, I would probably disagree with you there somewhat too but I can see what you mean. At least there's no on-chain governance which would be bad, and really anybody can participate but you won't have a voice unless you are highly researched and start participating in the community, but from that aspect anyone can come in and bring good ideas to the table and ppl will and do listen.
Yeah it's easy to think that way when you don't fully understand the design tradeoffs or the full Ethereum scaling roadmap. As I mentioned, the future is whats called native based rollups where L2s can completely customize their stack while at the same time being atomically composable with all other L2s and ETH L1, while inheriting Ethereum L1 security. L2s can always be faster than an L1 because L1s still have to handle consensus message passing where L2s don't have to do this (the L1 does it) L2s can have omega centralized block production and be faster and cheaper than any other chain while still inheriting Ethereums security and decentralization (as the execution on L2 can be submitted as a validity ZK proof so being centralized for execution here doesn't allow for double spends or anything wonky). I totally get that Ethereum in it's current state feels slow to grow but if you grasp the full lay of the land you might come to the same conclusion that it's going to be extremely tough for any Alt L1 to compete and that window to grow and pull in users is closing fast as the next wave of ETH L2s will be by far the fastest/cheapest/best UX chains to use. Cheers and good luck!
Yeah it's easy to think that way when you don't fully understand the design tradeoffs or the full Ethereum scaling roadmap. As I mentioned, the future is whats called native based rollups where L2s can completely customize their stack while at the same time being atomically composable with all other L2s and ETH L1, while inheriting Ethereum L1 security. L2s can always be faster than an L1 because L1s still have to handle consensus message passing where L2s don't have to do this (the L1 does it) L2s can have omega centralized block production and be faster and cheaper than any other chain while still inheriting Ethereums security and decentralization (as the execution on L2 can be submitted as a validity ZK proof so being centralized for execution here doesn't allow for double spends or anything wonky). I totally get that Ethereum in it's current state feels slow to grow but if you grasp the full lay of the land you might come to the same conclusion that it's going to be extremely tough for any Alt L1 to compete and that window to grow and pull in users is closing fast as the next wave of ETH L2s will be by far the fastest/cheapest/best UX chains to use. Cheers and good luck!
> If you were using solana then, and comparing objectively to other crypto, you would have had a pretty good idea that events would likely unfold as they did. Nah, that is a big stretch. When that thread was up, Solana didn't even finish implementing its local fees model. The lack of local fees was one of the big causes of its previous downtime. There was also no roadmap to hack ZK compression, light clients, newer client optimization with firedancer, etc. What is amazing is how the Solana dev team hacked so much shit together as the market demand became clear. While Ethereum had Justin Drake telling everyone to stick to a multi-year roadmap to achieve things.... That is the big contrast. Ppl say "they are in the for tech". You can tell it is a big lie because so many here in the subreddit simply don't realize how shit Solana has done recently while they keep memeing it as "sqlana".
Maybe, maybe not but ZK roll ups are already a thing and in full tested practical use under ethereum.
TLOS is building quite a bit. ZK, a CEX, and all sorts of other good stuff. No ICO and no VCs despite it being an older chain.
That Solana as it stands right now is going to have difficulties scaling if growth continues at the pace it is now? This is well known within the Solana community, what do you mean no one shares this opinion besides people affiliated with Ethereum?? Many people in the community believe Solana will be difficult to scale successfully as a monolithic single chain and have proposed L2 solutions. It’s also why ZK compression was pushed so hard, to help make state costs cheaper as state-growth is a majorly important for scaling blockchains. I guess I should add that i’m a full believer in Solana and trade on it full time for a reason. I just also believe that no chain is perfect and i’m not a maxi of any chain period, before I get called an ETH maxi or some shit. 🙄
There will be zk enabled layers bridged from the main chains. ZK proofs will have a huge impact doesn't matter which chain you use. Will allow for Bitcoin initial block download in seconds and will lead verifiable computation for anything. Crypto is still in V1.1
Yea that's true, for now. Luckily just those 3 account for over 75% of the total value on all rollups, but it is disappointing that none of the bigger ZK rollups have reached that stage yet, especially as smaller ZKRs like Taiko and zkSync Light have had that functionality for ages. The wierdest omission in my opinion is Starknet, because it shares so much tech with dYdX that you'd think it would be relatively straightforward to implement.
Bitcoin, and then Ethereum by quantity of nodes, decentralized development, geographic location, number of implementations. Outside of that, it seems like Polkadot and Mina are behind https://nakaflow.io. Which makes sense as they are blockchains very close to cypherpunks idiology. Remember when analysing decentralizarion, you can't take any lone parameter, you have to account for many variables. Here you have a good article on it, by a known decentralization defendant from eth space: https://news.earn.com/quantifying-decentralization-e39db233c28e. Regarding ZK. ZK serves for 2 things: privacy and compression. ZK can help decentralized systems to scale (zk coprocessors, commitments, etc) or for privacy (noir, etc). It's a tool that can be used to help decentralization but not the main tool. For now the best decentralization methods are crypto economic security and a good decentralized development.
> Once polygon pos become zk validium, could we see a lot more traction there? not unless it unlocks some in-demand use case or it makes an existing use case an order of magnitude better. Think about Polygon first getting popular, it was *significantly* cheaper than L1. Now with cheap txns everywhere, you're not going to get by on "cheap txns" as a selling point unless it's 10x or more better than the alternative. And that goes for any aspect beyond the cost of txns. >But zk tech is the future, this much seems certain, and polygon is one of the kings of zk right now, so how do you think that plays out? Is it significant enough? I really don't bother trying to understand the tech, it's a fool's errand IMO unless you're actually qualified(and lets be real, not a single person in this sub is). So many people marry a bag because they trick themselves into believing that project is the only project with "good tech" and they aren't even close to having the requisite knowledge to compare that tech to any other project. It's "good tech" that they see in a vacuum, when the reality is that every chain has "good tech", but yet every chain has wildly different levels of growth and activity. Generally I wait for the actual builders and I use that as my proxy for what is and isn't good tech. T Is ZK gonna take over? IDK, what does it even change? It's not a very digestible narrative, it's not like you can immediately tell the advantages as opposed to something like Solana, where it was competing against ETH and had an approach that was diametrically opposed to ETH's modular approach. So if it's going to take over, it needs to have something leveraging the tech, and if people can't figure that out or if it doesn't exist, then it will be a nothingburger. >Agglayer also could be pretty huge. same problem as ZK, unless you can show *how* it could be pretty huge, it won't be. >Polygon pos also isn’t irrelevant. Still has 5 billion in TVL. Half of optimism at the moment but couldn’t it gain traction? Not sure where you're getting your numbers but I'm seeing different figures. https://defillama.com/compare?chains=Optimism&chains=Arbitrum&chains=Polygon&chains=Base
Couple things. Base does not have a token. Not sure if this matters as you can invest in COIN on the stock market. But still. Second, what about ZK tech? Polygon is pretty much at the forefront due to its previous purchases. Once polygon pos become zk validium, could we see a lot more traction there? Arb and OP will still be optimistic rollups when polygon pos becomes a zk L2. Another thing, Polymarket. Maybe it doesn’t matter that much but polygon has the closest thing to consumer adoption of crypto the world has seen and performed flawlessly during the election. Investors may take note? Speaking of the investors - polygon def has a lot of money behind it. So I think it can be successful. But I agree that base and kraken(is that the exchange you’re talking about) will be competitive. And being built on superchain is not great look for polygon. But zk tech is the future, this much seems certain, and polygon is one of the kings of zk right now, so how do you think that plays out? Agglayer also could be pretty huge. Polygon pos also isn’t irrelevant. Still has 5 billion in TVL. Half of optimism at the moment but couldn’t it gain traction? Thoughts?
tldr; Cardano (ADA) has experienced a significant bullish surge, sparking optimism among investors and analysts who speculate it could mark the start of a broader bull run. ADA's price has climbed over 200% in the past month, supported by favorable technical indicators and increased trading volume. The market sentiment is bolstered by recent network developments, including the ZK smart contract on Halo 2 and the upcoming Hydra scaling upgrade. Analysts project a potential 140% surge in the coming months if ADA breaks key resistance levels. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Aleph Zero $AZERO Layer 1 ZK compliant privacy 100000tps 170 million Market Cap
Except Cardano has integrated other curves specifically to allow interoperability already. Also Bitcoin_OS is already working with Cardano to bring bridgeless ZK Bitcoin - Cardano interop first.
AIOZ has just started to pump, impressive DePin tech which I think will be hot topic moving forward. Zebec ($ZBCN) is similar DePin technology. They’re backed heavily by Circle, Coinbase, Solana Ventures. It’s essentially a DeFi settlement protocol. ZK Swap Finance ($ZF) is the native token of ZK Swap Finance DEX. One of the largest DEXs on the ZK Sync Chain.
LINK, FETCH, AERO, AVAX, ZK (or ZF for a small mc)
Cardano takes its time to build right first time, that means it's never had any downtime or restarts, not even Bitcoin can claim that. It's focus on long term correctness means it's now (after 7 years) just starting to get into it's stride in terms of building a truly unique and exciting ecosystem. Cardano shares many features with Bitcoin like UTxO accounting, but also is PoS meaning unlike Bitcoin you can be part of consensus and earn staking rewards. Unlike other PoS coins, there are no time locks, no funky staking derivatives, no hokey smart contracts to get exploited, your ADA stays truly liquid and in your own wallet at all times. In most aspects (not all) Cardano is the most decentralized and secure blockchain, it's minimum attack vector is an industry leading 37, this again is due to its unique and carefully planned design. DeFi on Cardano is small, but so far no hacks have been recorded. Think about that, no-one on Cardano lost money to smart contract or permission errors, it's the safest system (due to meticulous long term design). Recent updates are that (due to its natural UTxO design synergy) will become a DeFi layer for Bitcoin through ZK platform BitcoinOS, bringing all of Bitcoins stored value to Cardano's DeFi. Bitcoiners won't need to leave their Bitcoin wallets, won't even need to know they are using Cardano. Cardano is also one of a very small set doing on chain governance, this is in the upgrade path right now. Holding ADA will give users direct say in the path of the system. People hate Cardano because it's not a meme coin that they can pump n dump, crypto institutions hate Cardano because it's an organic ecosystem with no VCs dumping on retail. But for those of us who want to see crypto adoption into daily lives, Cardano is the safe, robust, sustainable platform that your grandparents could use safely, think about true crypto adoption.
ZK Fold have a plan to do this, and you can vote for it in Catalyst. Voting started today! Everyone vote for ZK Fold! They have three proposals.
tldr; SingularityNET, a decentralized AI platform, has partnered with the Mina Foundation to enhance decentralized AI using zero-knowledge (ZK) technology. This collaboration aims to develop secure AGI applications that prioritize user privacy by integrating SingularityNET's AI infrastructure with Mina Protocol's zk-SNARK technology. The partnership focuses on creating a secure knowledge layer for AI agents, supporting decentralized applications, and improving the Internet of Knowledge initiative for collaborative AI knowledge sharing while safeguarding user data. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
>No, would not completely trust any organization, but would trust some enough for a small amount of money. Much like I trust PayPal with my $50. The issue is that at any point PayPal can deny you access to the service, e.g. based on your location, transaction history, etc. Or they can demand that you verify your identity, or your address, or the origin of your funds, etc. And you can say "fair enough, I'll use something else", but then you find out that there aren't that many options (monopoly) and that all of them are like this (partly because they are forced to comply, partly because they know there are no alternatives). And you might say, "it won't happen to me because I live in a first world country, not some sanctioned shithole, and I am not trying to do anything illegal". Fair enough, but why exactly there should be few entities that dictate the flow of money worldwide, entities whose approval you need to send your own hard-earned money? It is just a matter of principle for us who live in democratic first-world countries and a human right issue with people that happened to be born in countries that are sanctioned (and thus not served by PayPal and the likes) or under oppressive governments. >Did some reading, ZK-Rollups seem like the way to go indeed. But I guess that's not going to happen any time soon. We can only get there if we start being honest and vocal about the many shortcomings of Lightning. Too many people are afraid to criticize it openly because they feel like they are criticizing Bitcoin as a whole if they do. And many others are just delusional, "it works flawlessly for me" and then all they use it for is a couple of transactions per month.
No, would not completely trust any organization, but would trust some enough for a small amount of money. Much like I trust PayPal with my $50. The fees not trickling down is something I didn't consider, nice insight. Did some reading, ZK-Rollups seem like the way to go indeed. But I guess that's not going to happen any time soon.
I believe ZK rollups close the gap with the optimistic rollups, and ZKSync will be the leading ZK.
How is shipping ZK contracts 4 years later than Ethereum good news?
Exactly that. The only ones hyping this up are bagholders. Cardano has zero institutional interest, which wont change over night because they deployed a ZK-smartcontract.
tldr; The Cardano network has successfully deployed its first zero-knowledge (ZK) smart contract on the mainnet using the Plutus v3 ledger language. This milestone allows zero-knowledge applications and partner chains, such as Midnight, to integrate with Cardano. The Halo2 zk-SNARK proving system was used, which enables secure transaction validation without revealing sensitive details. Halo2 builds on the PLONK protocol, offering efficiency and flexibility, and supports recursive proofs for enhanced performance and scalability. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Damn Amir Taaki is showing interest in DOT, this guy is the BTC OG genius “Excited by Polkadot’s new JAM protocol and trustless bridges. With ZK, the blockchain trilemma is solved.”
Its not like 100% we will make new ATH but I think its possible. We are at $1, a 30x its nothing when real alt season has not started yet. Last bull it was not on Binance when it it $28. If we talk charts, not much resistence after breaking $2.5.Bridge coming next month, ZK in Q2.
AZERO It has sub 100mil$ MCAP and team is delivering incredible L1 privacy technology which will be bridged to all L2 EVMs, only blockchain with client side ZK proof implementation ready to be used be all EVM chains. Conservative potential of 100x from where we are now.
I disagree, with Cardano implementing scalability with Hydra and Mithril, also easy interoperability with Bitcoin for ZK proof smart contracts, since they both use UTxO methodology - unlike account based chains such as Algorand and EVM(ETH)
Another source - [SmartOSC To Onboard 1,000 Developers To Accelerate Adoption Of ZK Technology Within Mina Ecosystem - SmartOSC](https://www.smartosc.com/news/smartosc-to-onboard-1000-developers-to-accelerate-adoption-of-zk-technology-within-mina-ecosystem/)
Thanks will read more on ZK proofs!
Thanks will read more on ZK proofs!
Generally, off-chain operations. this includes 1. L2s 2. ZK proofs stamped on mainnet 3. Block Data offloading, aka Data Availability Layer
OP, ZK, STRK could follow.
1. Dia - I truly believe oracles will playing a larger factor in this bull run 2. TLOS - L1, ZK, and building in exchange via the binance link program 3. FET - not a meme but AI will have a similar impact as memes in terms of hype this cycle
Blockchain is based on encryption, foremost There are ways to make anonymous transactions. Monero does this, for example, where even leaking your address doesn't expose your history. There are numerous ZK-proof protocols in the works, many functional today, that allow you to prove you have voted without exposing who your vote is for. It's almost just a UX problem at this point. And of course regulatory/trust.
Lol literally no one mentioned ZK xdd Looking at yall bags yall living last bull market. Ppl rlly call link dot ada XDDDDDD stay poor
Horizen ZEN. Survived multiple bear markets, halving is next month. 21m supply. Migrating to new improved chain next year focused on ZK with native functionality integrated with zkVerify.
I get the scepticism and agree this is a world where we must verify rather than trust. They proved the [ZK proof in chain](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2024/10/25/bitcoin-liquidity-could-flow-to-cardano-ecosystem-with-new-btc-bridge/amp/) confirmed in block 853626.
I mean, it is a funny meme. I'm just saying there's more to ZK roll ups than this.
>Why do you keep dancing over my question? If BTC starts producing blocks 10% as large would that be good or bad for Bitcoin? >Bad because it becomes more centralised. And it would need far bigger blocks anyway to compete with Visa. Reducing the blocksize would reduce node requirements and make Bitcoin more decentralized, not more centralized. Centralization is the whole argument against raising the blocksize from 1MB to even 10MB. That somehow $5 in storage requirements per year would kill Bitcoin. The solution sold is we must use off-chain and non-custodial solutions instead and those somehow don't kill Bitcoin. If I am to take that argument as fact, the natural conclusion is of course to decrease the blocksize from 1MB substantially to increase decentralization which is all Bitcoin is good for if we can't use it otherwise. I don't believe Bitcoin needs larger blocks to compete with VISA anyway. Ethereum L2s are able to post ZK proofs with thousands of TX using a few 100kb on-chain. Bitcoin only needs to support on-chain L2s, say by turning on OPCAT, but somehow that is incredibly contentious because so many people only want BTC to be a rock today. >Where did I contradict myself? Providing the base layer remains sancrosanct I don't give a shit. When you said, "We don't need 3 million shitcoins to supposedly improve Bitcoin. They are all cash grabs." in response to me saying the market highly values utility and Bitcoin should have simply enabled utility on-chain from the get go, and not forced it off-chain to be stolen by centralized parties. Saying 'the market is wrong, everything is a shitcoin and *shitcoins* have no value' the entire time as they take trillions away from Bitcoin is fallacious. If BTC was worth $2T more, and the underlying chain remains sancrosanct, everyone is building on and using the same network, would that not improve Bitcoin? You said we don't need utility or cash grabs on Bitcoin because that's not Bitcoin, then you said it doesn't matter that it's happening via Taproot anyway because it's on Bitcoin. Taproot is a decade late now, it's a moot point anyways. >Are you joking now? FTX is the Bitcoin network? FTX is how Bitcoin is scaling today, by design. How are even 1000 people meant to use something with 10TPS otherwise? Over 99.9% of BTC activity happens off-chain in CEXs.. >Source? Meanwhile it's likely several million BTC are lost forever. You want a source that CEXs operate fractional reserve systems? There is no way you've been here since 2013 if you don't understand this by now. Do some basic research into any of the hundreds of CEXs that failed and why. Not your keys, not your crypto. >Fees are currently 30-40 cents. Now you are making shit up. Okay, now calculate what fees need to be when issuance runs too low to pay for security/mining and only a handful of people can use the chain at once. That is the inevitable endgame for Bitcoin. This is literally all I am talking about, even if that's 30 years from now. Then calculate what fees would be, roughly, if 1% of the world wanted to open an LN channel in the same decade. The result shows people will have to use Saylor's non custodial BTC bank or any CEX instead, and the plot is lost, then there was no point. >And yet again you don't explain how altcoins are exempt from all this. I am not talking about altcoins. I don't know why you keep bringing them up. Altcoins are not exempt from this because generally everything that came after Bitcoin was influenced by VCs for their individual profit as part of the core design, while Bitcoin had a decade to run first before that occurred to it. However, like I said, more ETH is on-chain in self custody than BTC and ETH has much higher velocity. ETH is being used as a P2P currency much more, while its blockspace is more valuable. I haven't looked into other coins, but I'd guess there are at least a few other exemptions. In response to this you brought up how ETH doesn't hold value against BTC, which isn't relevant to self custody or utility at all. You're almost suggesting BTC being put into a fractional reserve CEX is what's generating value towards it (and if you know much about Tether's history, that isn't far from the truth) by coming up with such an irrelevant response. I don't see the relevance how this relates to Bitcoin not functioning as outlined in its whitepaper, or how that spells disaster once issuance runs dry because of an A+B design that was given up on halfway through. I honestly don't care if Bcash or Bitcoin123 follows the Bitcoin whitepaper through or not because it's not Bitcoin, the whitepaper isn't what makes something valuable as much as time and place and that can't be repeated after the fact. Altcoins aren't exempt, but no one ever said they were.
No it’s not. Not in the way I’m talking about. I’m talking about billions of people using it. That’s not the case today. Privacy is being enabled at the tradfi level by ZK proofs. This is what is currently being adopted for payments https://x.com/chainlink/status/1852018610639622366?s=46&t=7Of64Mi5PfYF-LGsyM4X0A
tldr; The article discusses the integration of zero-knowledge machine learning (ZKML) on the Mina Protocol, addressing challenges in combining AI with blockchain. ZKML uses zero-knowledge proofs to verify computations without revealing data, enhancing privacy and efficiency. This approach allows AI models to run in decentralized environments while maintaining data privacy. Mina's ZKML library, leveraging ONNX, enables developers to convert ML models into ZK circuits, facilitating the creation of privacy-preserving applications. The article highlights use cases and the potential of recursive proofs in complex ML workflows. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Yes this uses the same Clear as you see in airports. This is a big deal and we’re starting to see products with major implications for mass adoption take shape finally. This uses Space and Time ZK proofs, chainlink functions, and clear identity to help build a KYC product which identifies the user to comply with regulations while keeping their information hidden and private. Tradfi has been waiting for a product like this to dive headfirst into tokenization. They are interested in blockchain and want to use it, but can’t currently because they need to comply with regulations. This product fills a major gap and we are now one step closer to realizing the potential for tokenization. Trillions. Think bigger.
tldr; Instruxi has launched the Instruxi Mesh ID in closed beta, a next-gen KYC and identity solution for real-world asset tokenization. Developed with Chainlink, CLEAR, and Space and Time, it offers secure identity verification without compromising privacy. The solution leverages CLEAR's API for rapid KYC pre-approval, enhancing user convenience and compliance with U.S. regulations. Chainlink's infrastructure supports seamless integration, while Space and Time's ZK database ensures privacy-preserving verification. The platform aims to initially introduce tokenized real estate. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
I just read the first paragraph and assumed they were talking about how banks don't scale Bitcoin, lmao. We know how this thing plays out with them, it's delusional to believe that they will behave nicely this time around just because it's Bitcoin, they won't. Covenants enable the possibility for services with the same level of reliability banks are supposed to give, but with actual cryptographic proofs that they hold the funds and the actual warranties that the funds are actually yours. In short: Study Ark, LNhance, and ZK-Proofs, fuck banks, and lets update Bitcoin so it becomes a lot better and actually makes traditional banks a thing of the past.
Just 3? Tough pick, but here are 3 well-published cryptography and ZK researchers working at the EF: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gzHDMSYAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao https://scholar.google.ch/citations?user=jDbo5ZMAAAAJ&hl https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ht7jk1IAAAAJ&hl=en
Also "big bois" are no longer using ETH since it's no longer interesting from many aspects. 1. Most apps buitld on Blockchain are straight up throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. You can only do that where the current max volume of degens is and that is not ETH. 2. Most mee app builders count on Grants to build their apps - no grant --> move to chain with grants. Cause basically even if the app proves to be a bust - and most do- people at least dont end up in the red 3. Man many apps built on eth are superficial -- apps like all the niche Defi swappers and Bridge tools are basically unnecessary in a good L1 chain and all those apps are gonna die with moving to good, sound L1s and with liquidity moving from L2s. 4. All that is currently popping on ETH is new L2 that serve no purpose than to even more dilute and confuse the users, fragment the eco but also kinda make additional problems that will require new Apps. This is not the way. You don't create problems to solve them with new apps. 5. Building on ETH is still not easier than before, the cost of building and operating on ETH main is still slow, expensive and can't facilitate fast, cheap try that many apps need. Building a whole new L2 or doing it on L2 is also not a lokg term solution since its kinda a security and liquidity risk and you still dont have the finality you need. Overall the whole market is moving from ETH to new and better L1 chains and people are just blind to see it. Its not just Solana, its Algo, SUI, Avax, MultX, ZK and others that are slowly and steadily chipping away those apps and projects that are moving away. Projects that prooved their use of case and now just need better platform to operate, cut cost and optimize the process. You know, the actual tech of it all. These moves are not pompous and if you look for it you will find it. From credit card partner companies, supply management, tokenization etc. A lot of it is moving. While the mainstream is full of memes the RWA apps are making moves. It does not impact any price movement yet but it will. Either be it negative for some chains and positive for others.
There are different types of 'L2s', with different connections to their L1. ZK rollups are the most secure, with Optimistic rollups almost as good. Most of what are referred to as L2s in Ethereum are rollups (e.g. Arbitrum, Optimism, Base etc). Next come Validiums, which use most of the same tech as rollups, but just use a different location for data availability. The only example of these you are likely to have heard of is the gaming L2 'Immutable X'. Then we come to sidechains, these are not really secured by the L1 in any meaningful sense, they are effectively separate chains that just post commits or checkpoints to the L1 periodically. This category includes Gnosis and Polygon for Ethereum, and basically all Bitcoin L2s except Lightning. Lightning is in a separate category as it is a collection of State Channels. This has a very different architecture to the others on the list, and it is secure, however it has 2 major problems. Firstly setting up a user with self custody requires making L1 transactions, you can't onboard directly to Lightning and have ownership of your assets. This puts an upper limit on adoption as it would take roughly a century to just set up everyone alive today with a Lightning wallet, even if that was the only thing Bitcoin was being used for. Secondly, once on Lightning, no portion of the transaction fee filters down to the L1 miners securing Bitcoin. This means that widespread adoption of Lightning would mean a massive reduction in revenue for miners, the exact opposite of what is required as issuance reduces each halvening. Bitcoin can't support rollups or validiums, so it is stuck with either sidechains, the least secure type of L2s, or Lightning, which can't scale and would kill Bitcoin in the long run if it did. So yea TL:DR... *Ethereum L2 good but BTC L2 bad*
Chainlink is also being used to preserve privacy for banks as shown by the Australian bank ANZ This uses ZK proofs to hide customer information while allowing for cross blockchain transfers and communication All banks will want to preserve privacy for their customers. This is a huge development for tradfi as they begin to adopt blockchain technologies https://x.com/chainlink/status/1848576786067820702?s=46&t=7Of64Mi5PfYF-LGsyM4X0A
More logical to get a loan right now to buy a few dips such as LTC, CTSI, POL and ZK. Then you pay the loan with that monthly portion that you first wanted to buy every month. Why buy some coins now? Because we're at the start of a new bull-run right now. When central banks start cutting interest rates, it signals a new bull run, every single time. You don't wait another year for this opportunity. But please don't get into BTC and other overpriced coins right now. There are other coins with better values.
>Oh my goodness, every fucking L1 advertises itself as "Web 3". Even the ghost chains say that. It is a buzzword slowly losing meaning because devs just randomly tag themselves with it to get VC money. You framing web3 as a buzzword that devs randomly asssign just proves that you dont understand the concepts of web3. There might be procets that falsly assign this concept, but it does not mean that is has no meaning. >News flash. They aren't the only ones with multichain thesis+ZK. Every major L2 is doing BD to make their ecosystem multichain and interoperable with their own standard. Plenty others are doing ZK: ZKsync with elastic chains, etc. Here is a logically analog statement to what you wrote: There is MySapce. Social Networks already exists. So what do we need TikTok for? >What is the differentiation? It essentially boils down to your token. If your token price does well, you can afford to do more grants to get devs to grow the network effect. If your token price does well, you get more wealth effect for your token holders to increase activity. So now tell me how the token price doesn't matter? You are confusing Network with Platform and value with monetary gain. Web3 enables an economic paradigm shift. Your arguments are confined to the economic paradigm you operate in. I acknowledge that it is hard to understand, but it does not mean that it is wrong. >Here you are trying to gish gallop the idea the chain's token economics doesn't matter. That is the very definition of gaslighting. Its funny to me that you go down the road of arguing psychological concepts with be because, you know, I am kind of a psychologist myself. It is a common issue that lay people nowadays throw around concepts they learned about in pop psychology. Everyone says they are depressed when they are feeling down. Depression is a lifelong mental health condition caused by your brain not functioning like the brain of a health person. There is a difference. If you are feeling gaslit by an internet stranger that does not agree with you, it shows that you are either applying the concept wrongly, which is a very common problem with psychological concepts, or there is a much more severe issue: You acknowledge that I am correct in reality, yet you are unable to adjust your views based on this knowledge and conclude that you live in an alternate reality instead. In that case, you should take a break from reddit and seek a mental health professional. >***It is the very definition of GASLIGHTING to say the token price doesn't matter for a proof of stake system.*** No, its is not gaslighting, it is wrong. I never said that. I said it numerous times, but apparently I have to say it again: I am not talking about the Network. I am talking about the technology as a platform that enables the creation of networks.
> Web3, Aggregated. Oh my goodness, every fucking L1 advertises itself as "Web 3". Even the ghost chains say that. It is a buzzword slowly losing meaning because devs just randomly tag themselves with it to get VC money. > Enabling an infinitely scalable web of sovereign blockchains that feels like a single chain. Powered by ZK tech. News flash. They aren't the only ones with multichain thesis+ZK. Every major L2 is doing BD to make their ecosystem multichain and interoperable with their own standard. Plenty others are doing ZK: ZKsync with elastic chains, etc. What is the differentiation? It essentially boils down to your token. If your token price does well, you can afford to do more grants to get devs to grow the network effect. If your token price does well, you get more wealth effect for your token holders to increase activity. So now tell me how the token price doesn't matter? > Definition of the word gaslighting According to Merriam Webster, > **:** psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to ***question the validity*** of their own thoughts, ***perception of reality***, or memories and typically ***leads to confusion***, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator Here you are trying to gish gallop the idea the chain's token economics doesn't matter. That is the very definition of gaslighting. Even if I concede on tokenomics, it is crazy you think Polygon PoS is unaffected by its token price. It is the very definition of its security. > [https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-2-0-protocol-vision-and-architecture](https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-2-0-protocol-vision-and-architecture) They still have plans to use their token for staking even if the PoS chain merges with the AggLayer. How the fuck do you think its token price doesn't matter for the system's security? It is the very definition of GASLIGHTING to say the token price doesn't matter for a proof of stake system.
Ready the First Line of polygon.technology: Web3, Aggregated. Enabling an infinitely scalable web of sovereign blockchains that feels like a single chain. Powered by ZK tech. Their technology ist Not their Network. It is their Platform that enables Networks. Also, please Google the Definition of the word gaslighting before throwing it round.
Here is the theory about John Nash being Satoshi Nakamoto: [a link to a sub r/CC post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/8CWIJ0U9ZK).