XMR

Elean0rZ

p2p is the answer, but if you don't have a buddy in mind there are p2p "matchmakers" in the vein of LocalBitcoins that facilitate this. Some of these services are more credible than others, though, so DYOR. Depending on availability, some crypto ATMs \*might\* spit out cash as well, though not large amounts. And you could also do a pseudo-withdrawal by e.g. purchasing giftcards with crypto and using those to buy things you were going to buy anyway. Obviously not the same thing as truly withdrawing cash, though. To your broader question, a true crypto maximalist would argue that success for crypto would mean never having to use Fiat at all, rendering the whole thing moot. Like, if you can do all the day-to-day stuff you need to do by transacting only with crypto, then you don't NEED banks or on/off ramps. And, to that end, keep in mind that there are plenty of people in the space who got in early enough via mining or whatever that they have significant assets within the crypto space, and genuinely don't need to worry about on/off ramps. But absolutely, for everyone else, you raise a totally valid point. The vast majority of people will likely enter the space via some kind of KYC'd process. You can still be anonymous after you enter the space if you use XMR etc, but still, your initial entry prices would be on record for the purposes of calculating capital gains etc. You should really be paying your taxes regardless, though, so arguably that's not such an awful thing, even if you choose to be anonymous in the meantime. As an aside, it should be noted that we're speaking in terms that mostly apply to developed nations. The sorts of places where censorship resistance is especially important may also have less robust processes related to their banking sector, so the situation may be different there.

scrugg98

XMR

CointestMod

#Privacy Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by FrogsDoBeCool which won 3rd place in the Privacy Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > cointest copied from Frogs do be cool (me) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > disclaimer: I own no monero > > # Monero, some cons > > * XMR won't be adopted globally. > * Monero due to its regulation and straight-up banning on most exchanges, won't be adopted. It's pretty obvious why, but to spell it out more, people who can't buy monero, can't use it. Why not buy it on defi? it looks like defi exchanges may be able to be regulated too! meaning monero can't be exchanged for other currencies. > * The price doesn't do much > * That's because of the supply, as of now, there will be a constant amount of xmr made now than ever. That's fine as a currency, but now the price won't be doing 10x's or 5x's like bitcoin. That's great as a privacy feature and removes issues of 51% attacks, but at an expense of the price ever going up and staying up. adding to my point above, monero has no worth if it cannot be exchanged with other currencies, the price could be infinite, or $0, doesn't matter when nothing will be exchanged for it. > * its reputation > * XMR is known by people who don't own crypto as "the shady tax evader coin" or "criminal coin" and other things to do with crime. There's no doubt that in the crypto sphere the simplest fud can kill a project, remember Elon musk removing bitcoin from their payment systems? China, again, for the 45000th time... > * Its most popular wallet has some issues, mymonero > * a reddit user was quoted "I am constantly met with errors, crashes, and a frozen program" "My wallet froze and I couldn't even delete wallets or restore. I tried reinstalling and every time the problem would not resolve itself. I had to finally restore my seed on a different wallet." the response was not exactly the most in-depth or helpful. "We are aware of an issue when the computer goes to sleep or power saving mode and will be addressed in future patch." [src](https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/i22fd9/why_is_my_monero_wallet_so_bad_i_find_there_is/) > * the cons of monero are pretty intense, as regulation comes to push it down, other things like wallets that support monero, its reputation, and the tokenomics suffer. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmtu9/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10kkgfg/daily_general_discussion_january_25_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Privacy Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Privacy Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by FrogsDoBeCool which won 3rd place in the Monero Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > cointest copied from Frogs do be cool (me) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > disclaimer: I own no monero > > # Monero, some cons > > * XMR won't be adopted globally. > * Monero due to its regulation and straight-up banning on most exchanges, won't be adopted. It's pretty obvious why, but to spell it out more, people who can't buy monero, can't use it. Why not buy it on defi? it looks like defi exchanges may be able to be regulated too! meaning monero can't be exchanged for other currencies. > * The price doesn't do much > * That's because of the supply, as of now, there will be a constant amount of xmr made now than ever. That's fine as a currency, but now the price won't be doing 10x's or 5x's like bitcoin. That's great as a privacy feature and removes issues of 51% attacks, but at an expense of the price ever going up and staying up. adding to my point above, monero has no worth if it cannot be exchanged with other currencies, the price could be infinite, or $0, doesn't matter when nothing will be exchanged for it. > * its reputation > * XMR is known by people who don't own crypto as "the shady tax evader coin" or "criminal coin" and other things to do with crime. There's no doubt that in the crypto sphere the simplest fud can kill a project, remember Elon musk removing bitcoin from their payment systems? China, again, for the 45000th time... > * Its most popular wallet has some issues, mymonero > * a reddit user was quoted "I am constantly met with errors, crashes, and a frozen program" "My wallet froze and I couldn't even delete wallets or restore. I tried reinstalling and every time the problem would not resolve itself. I had to finally restore my seed on a different wallet." the response was not exactly the most in-depth or helpful. "We are aware of an issue when the computer goes to sleep or power saving mode and will be addressed in future patch." [src](https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/i22fd9/why_is_my_monero_wallet_so_bad_i_find_there_is/) > * the cons of monero are pretty intense, as regulation comes to push it down, other things like wallets that support monero, its reputation, and the tokenomics suffer. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmtu9/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10kkgfg/daily_general_discussion_january_25_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Monero Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Monero Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

miner2361

Marry- Bitcoin Fuck- XRP, XMR Kill- Tokens

Pitiful-Inevitable10

Mainly HBAR, ALBT, LCX and a little bit of XMR as well

Geistluchs

XMR And also coins related to decentralized science ETI (etica)

Btotherest

QTUM, LTC, XMR, and not a moonshot but o/c BTC

MaeronTargaryen

BTC, LTC, XMR or even DOGE sure, but ATOM or LINK, they’re not made to buy goods really

Kappatalizable

ETH (technically still an alt), MATIC, ALGO, XMR. Apart from XMR these are coins that I actually use and am pretty satisfied with

CointestMod

#Privacy Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Privacy Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10kkgfg/daily_general_discussion_january_25_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Monero Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10kkgfg/daily_general_discussion_january_25_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

CTRL22WTF

Really wish I wouldn't have lost mine... Sidenote, Lisa Su should start anticipating future Zen chiplet demand. AMD going to crush it if XMR adoption continues at the current pace.

CointestMod

#Privacy Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Privacy Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10jrpkm/daily_general_discussion_january_24_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Privacy Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Privacy Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Monero Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10jrpkm/daily_general_discussion_january_24_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Monero Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Monero Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

4cademy

So there ist BTC for store and transfer of value, ETH for smart contracts and since PoS a more ecological approach, XMR for fully untraceable transactions. My core thesis is: A coin needs to add value to the crypto ecosystem to be valuable over a long time.

coinhunter27

Ethereum (ETH) is a decentralized blockchain network that allows for the creation of decentralized applications (dApps) and the execution of smart contracts. However, it is true that a small group of companies, known as mining pools, currently control a large portion of the network's hash rate, which is a measure of the computational power being used to secure the network. This centralization of mining power does raise concerns about the potential for a 51% attack, where a group of miners could collude to control the network and potentially reverse transactions. As for the most decentralized and safest cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin (BTC) is often considered the most decentralized and secure, as it has the largest and most decentralized mining network. Other decentralized cryptocurrencies include Litecoin (LTC), Monero (XMR), and Zcash (ZEC). Some of the biggest blockchain technology projects include: *Bitcoin: a decentralized digital currency that allows for peer-to-peer transactions without the need for a central authority. *Ethereum: a decentralized platform that allows for the creation of dApps and the execution of smart contracts. *Ripple (XRP): a digital asset designed for payments and remittances, with a focus on enterprise use cases. *EOS: a decentralized platform for the creation of dApps, with a focus on high performance and scalability. *Cardano (ADA): a decentralized platform for the creation and execution of smart contracts, with a focus on security and sustainability. Each of these projects has its own unique goal, but overall, they aim to create decentralized and trustless systems for various use cases, such as digital currency, smart contracts, and dApps.

coinhunter27

Ethereum (ETH) is a decentralized blockchain network that allows for the creation of decentralized applications (dApps) and the execution of smart contracts. However, it is true that a small group of companies, known as mining pools, currently control a large portion of the network's hash rate, which is a measure of the computational power being used to secure the network. This centralization of mining power does raise concerns about the potential for a 51% attack, where a group of miners could collude to control the network and potentially reverse transactions. As for the most decentralized and safest cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin (BTC) is often considered the most decentralized and secure, as it has the largest and most decentralized mining network. Other decentralized cryptocurrencies include Litecoin (LTC), Monero (XMR), and Zcash (ZEC). Some of the biggest blockchain technology projects include: Bitcoin: a decentralized digital currency that allows for peer-to-peer transactions without the need for a central authority. Ethereum: a decentralized platform that allows for the creation of dApps and the execution of smart contracts. Ripple (XRP): a digital asset designed for payments and remittances, with a focus on enterprise use cases. EOS: a decentralized platform for the creation of dApps, with a focus on high performance and scalability. Cardano (ADA): a decentralized platform for the creation and execution of smart contracts, with a focus on security and sustainability. Each of these projects has its own unique goal, but overall, they aim to create decentralized and trustless systems for various use cases, such as digital currency, smart contracts, and dApps

coinhunter27

Ethereum (ETH) is a decentralized blockchain network that allows for the creation of decentralized applications (dApps) and the execution of smart contracts. However, it is true that a small group of companies, known as mining pools, currently control a large portion of the network's hash rate, which is a measure of the computational power being used to secure the network. This centralization of mining power does raise concerns about the potential for a 51% attack, where a group of miners could collude to control the network and potentially reverse transactions. As for the most decentralized and safest cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin (BTC) is often considered the most decentralized and secure, as it has the largest and most decentralized mining network. Other decentralized cryptocurrencies include Litecoin (LTC), Monero (XMR), and Zcash (ZEC). Some of the biggest blockchain technology projects include: Bitcoin: a decentralized digital currency that allows for peer-to-peer transactions without the need for a central authority. Ethereum: a decentralized platform that allows for the creation of dApps and the execution of smart contracts. Ripple (XRP): a digital asset designed for payments and remittances, with a focus on enterprise use cases. EOS: a decentralized platform for the creation of dApps, with a focus on high performance and scalability. Cardano (ADA): a decentralized platform for the creation and execution of smart contracts, with a focus on security and sustainability. Each of these projects has its own unique goal, but overall, they aim to create decentralized and trustless systems for various use cases, such as digital currency, smart contracts, and dApps.

BusinessBreakfast3

Most people value long term store of value more than privacy. That was the case in the previous bull runs and will continue to be. Don't get me wrong, I like both. But investing is different... I asked on the XMR sub and even there people weren't comfortable storing their wealth in XMR.

johnfoss68

So, all the people using Coincards are committing crimes? Come on mate lol. In the USA in December 2022, using CoinCards 65% pay with XMR, and only 18% with BTC https://twitter.com/CoinCards/status/1610105220138405889

EmilyLovs

"never be programmable"... remember "2 weeks to flatten the curve." Of course it's going to be programmable at some point. Are the slaves really going to submit to this tyranny? \#XMR #Privacy coins #p2p markets

patharmangsho

There is already a way to do atomic swaps between BTC & XMR. I think it's called Unstoppable or something. They even have a GUI.

LaLiLuLeLo_0

If you're so sure, why not make an easy 5 XMR and take my bet

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Monero Research Lab member Rucknium reported that some centralized mining pools are delaying the first confirmation of Monero transactions by a full minute, on average. Elite Labs have released Elite Wallet, a free, privacy-focused open-source multi-currency wallet for IOS and Android. The Farcaster Project has released version 0.8.4 of the XMR atomic swap node. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

CointestMod

#Privacy Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Privacy Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10jrpkm/daily_general_discussion_january_24_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

samios420

Well my retirement fund isn’t measured in bitcoin, and I’m not paying for my groceries with XMR yet, so ya we are very early

LaLiLuLeLo_0

I'm willing to bet you 5 XMR that BTC won't fail soon and will be priced above $25k by the end of 2025

Lillica_Golden_SHIB

ZEC, XMR, LTC, wanna see this list getting longer

Lillica_Golden_SHIB

Tried used Binance for trading XMR and can tell you I tried to withdraw at least 30 times over the course of a semester. Managed just two. Moved to Kraken and never had a single issue in this sense.

Kumomax1911

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Cake Wallet just uses [changenow.io](https://changenow.io) to do the swap. You are still relying on a central entity. Until Thorchain adds XMR I don't think we will see true decentralized swaps.

CointestMod

#Privacy Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Privacy Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by FrogsDoBeCool which won 3rd place in the Monero Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > cointest copied from Frogs do be cool (me) [https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/og17m0/comment/h6m77hd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) > > disclaimer: I own no monero > > # Monero, some cons > > * XMR won't be adopted globally. > * Monero due to its regulation and straight-up banning on most exchanges, won't be adopted. It's pretty obvious why, but to spell it out more, people who can't buy monero, can't use it. Why not buy it on defi? it looks like defi exchanges may be able to be regulated too! meaning monero can't be exchanged for other currencies. > * The price doesn't do much > * That's because of the supply, as of now, there will be a constant amount of xmr made now than ever. That's fine as a currency, but now the price won't be doing 10x's or 5x's like bitcoin. That's great as a privacy feature and removes issues of 51% attacks, but at an expense of the price ever going up and staying up. adding to my point above, monero has no worth if it cannot be exchanged with other currencies, the price could be infinite, or $0, doesn't matter when nothing will be exchanged for it. > * its reputation > * XMR is known by people who don't own crypto as "the shady tax evader coin" or "criminal coin" and other things to do with crime. There's no doubt that in the crypto sphere the simplest fud can kill a project, remember Elon musk removing bitcoin from their payment systems? China, again, for the 45000th time... > * Its most popular wallet has some issues, mymonero > * a reddit user was quoted "I am constantly met with errors, crashes, and a frozen program" "My wallet froze and I couldn't even delete wallets or restore. I tried reinstalling and every time the problem would not resolve itself. I had to finally restore my seed on a different wallet." the response was not exactly the most in-depth or helpful. "We are aware of an issue when the computer goes to sleep or power saving mode and will be addressed in future patch." [src](https://www.reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments/i22fd9/why_is_my_monero_wallet_so_bad_i_find_there_is/) > * the cons of monero are pretty intense, as regulation comes to push it down, other things like wallets that support monero, its reputation, and the tokenomics suffer. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmtu9/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10iydf2/daily_general_discussion_january_23_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

CointestMod

#Privacy Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Privacy Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10iydf2/daily_general_discussion_january_23_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

CointestMod

#Privacy Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Privacy Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10iydf2/daily_general_discussion_january_23_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

#Monero Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by mic_droo which won 1st place in the Monero Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > Monero is a privacy coin – the biggest and most well-known privacy coin, at that. Its main appeal is that, other than most other crypto currencies, it really is private and anonymous and it has a huge community that loves that about it. > > There are, in my opinion, two clusters of arguments that can be made against Monero: those that generally disagree with Monero in general and think it’s dangerous, and those that generally think what Monero is doing is good, but that it doesn’t do a great job at it. > > Let’s start with the first one: the argument could be made that Monero is dangerous. As I’ve laid out in my [Privacy Con-post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6syvm/general_concepts_round_privacy_conarguments/hxqgi5x/) in the last round, complete privacy enables illegal activities – one the one hand if you, for example, kidnap someone, asking for Monero is a great choice. But elites can also engage in corruption more easily using a coin like that. It can also be used (and let’s be honest, that is happening) to avoid paying taxes – which in my opinion is a huge problem as 1) this leads to governments receiving less tax money (**yes**, I think taxes are a necessary and good thing) and 2) to them being more anti-crypto. If we want crypto in general to be more accepted, Monero isn’t doing anyone a favour, some [countries are cracking down on exchanges that offer privacy coins](https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252512394/Monero-and-the-complicated-world-of-privacy-coins) specifically, which might also lead to less and less exchanges offering XMR when crypto gets regulated more. > > Okay, so far so good, but even if you think complete privacy is exclusively good, Monero has a few downsides. Firstly, [it might not be as untraceable as it seems](https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/) – in the past there have been a few problems that might have made you identifiable, especially if you weren’t cautious enough. Even though developers have fixed past loopholes, that doesn’t mean Monero will stay untraceable forever. The IRS [famously isn’t a fan and has a bounty on cracking Monero](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2020/09/14/irs-will-pay-up-to-625000-if-you-can-crack-monero-other-privacy-coins/?sh=3749d97585cc), and it’s naïve to assume it is *impossible* to do so. If people feel to secure now, they might be in trouble once the code is cracked. Secondly, it’s slow – with one transaction [taking about half an hour to be completed](https://www.monero.how/how-long-do-monero-transactions-take), which makes it unusable or at least very annoying for many applications. Thirdly, it’s a proof of work coin which, without going into too much detail (but see my [PoW con post](https://np.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/r6vtbn/general_concepts_round_pow_conarguments_december/hyr768o/) is an inefficient system that is awful for the environment. Finally, Monero mining [is pretty centralized](https://bitcoinist.com/does-monero-have-a-serious-centralized-mining-problem/) making it a potential target of a 51% attack. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/10iydf2/daily_general_discussion_january_23_2023_gmt0/).

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

MoneroArbo

if anything individual validators that fall in the wrong jurisdiction could be prosecuted. Tornado cash devs got wrecked, well one because everything going into it was transparent, but also because they were collecting fees directly off the service. Validators would be effectively doing the same thing. With something like XMR, besides being PoW, transactions are basically indistinguishable so transaction processors can't know if they're processing transactions containing stolen funds, etc. Plus, PoW can be done more seriptitiously.You don't need to front $50k USD on a transparent ledger to start validating XMR or even BTC transactions. Even with BTC, governments could put pressure on large mining farms especially since transactions are transparent where miners can "know" if they're processing sanctioned transactions.

MoneroArbo

for sure! that's why XMR community is heavily focused on DEX's and no-KYC exchanges, but especially developing convenient DEXs that can interact with fiat. There's a few projects in the works, and for now we have like Bisq and LocalMonero.

MaeronTargaryen

That’s true. A lot of crypto is only used for speculation, like memecoins. If XMR was ever delisted from most exchanges because of regulations, the price would suffer from it. XMR is probably one of the rare crypto that is primarily a currency and less of an investment

R_Wallenberg

Agreed, privacy is especially underated by the general masses. "If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide" is very naive and not true given even a cursory look at history. The 2 coins I worry the least about going to zero are XMR and BTC.

CointestMod

#Monero Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Monero Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

bangand0

Agreed. Litecoin will also surprise people in the next bull as it has implemented some privacy features through Mimblewimble and is listed on every major exchange compared to XMR

plantdatrees

I love XMR I hope it does well

MaeronTargaryen

Monero is a great coin with great fundamentals, but you mention illegal activities and how BTC can be tainted. Yes BTC is an open ledger so you can track it, but XMR probably has a much bigger proportion of illegal transactions. There’s always gonna be p2p but XMR’s adoption will be slowed down if privacy coins are regulated

Primary_Technical

Monero has been the only coin that i believe openly guaranteed privacy that no other coin even came close to but the governments who wants to track our every moment like test subjects wanted to destroy it . They are still trying there best to bring the project down . XMR will always be a project everyone here will respect .

Charon751

I love XMR, bc it‘s the last real anonymous coin.

FatStoner2FitSober

XMR shills triggered.

CointestMod

#Privacy Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Privacy Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Privacy) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

#Monero Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by roberthonker which won 3rd place in the Monero Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > **Taken from /u\/awhodothey's submission from last round** > > Assume no consumers ever care about privacy. Assume everyone is totally fine with all of their finances and purchase records being 100% visible on the blockchain to anyone who EVER pays or receives crypto from them once. Or assume crypto never catches on enough for casual consumers to realize they don't want every company to know every detail of their life... Monero will still succeed. Monero's real world market adoption will still continue to grow. > > Assume Monero was banned by every country in the world. Monero is the only coin who's market cap would be projected to increase even if it was completely banned, because Monero is the preferred coin of the black market, and black market activities are, by definition, already banned by law. > > The market cap of the black market is the market cap of every commercial activity that governments physically cannot stop. Monero's usage, market cap and price are increasing as the black market very slowly adopts Monero- despite the fact that most exchanges have already delisted XMR. Monero is the only multi-billion dollar coin that is known to have no chance at being listed on some of the biggest exchanges. So why is it worth so much still? Because unlike every other crypto, Monero is actually used as an exchange currency in the real world. > > The global black market is currently estimated to be over $10 trillion/year- larger than the economy of every country in Europe. If the global black market were a country it would be the second or third largest economy in the world. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingainsights/2011/11/07/rise-of-the-shadow-economy-second-largest-economy-in-the-world/?sh=4198b6cf4a0e > > The anonymity of Monero is comparable to the anonymity of cash, but Monero is much cheaper and faster than cash transfers. Further, because Monero does not need to be physically transfered or stored, it is much safer and greatly reduces the risk of violence and theft to black market participants. > > But what if every single centralized exchange removed Monero? It's too late. All the necessary pieces are already on the board. Atomic swaps with bitcoin are live, and wallets are rushing to integrate decentralized, trustless BTC to XMR exchange. Secret Network already has a tokenized version of Monero (sXMR) on the testnet of Secret Swap (a private, decentralized exchange that anyone can use without KYC). Every major crypto will be convertible to Monero. And options like "localMonero" already exist for anyone who wants to convert cash or refillable debit cards directly to Monero. > > Monero is the leading privacy coin, and the only trustless privacy coin with a network effect and proven track record of real world use. It is privacy by default, and users have no risk of forgetting to enable privacy. The Monero network is highly decentralized and open source and does not require users to trust its creators. The community is active and passionately unified around the core objectives of creating a real decentralized currency that is private. The IRS's bounty for anyone who can crack Monero is a testament to years of proven success. > > Monero is *the* crypto currency of the black market. Monero has no competition in that market, and it leaves no room for another coin to prove itself. Worst case scenario, Monero is outlawed and rejected by all law abiding citizens of the world. Monero would eventually replace blackmarket currencies and make some black market practices, like money laundering and off shore banking, entirely unnecessary. > > There is no need for slow, extremely expensive off shore banking practices that carry privacy risks (like the Panama papers that leaked account holder's names) and security risks (like the government reforms that have lead to account confiscations). Monero is cheaper, faster, easier, safer, and more private. It makes off shore banking completely obsolete. > > The market cap of gold is about $11 trillion. Low end estimate of the offshore banking market cap is $20 trillion. At $222, the current market cap of Monero is about $4 billion. When Monero's market cap reaches 1% of the low estimate of the illegal global offshore banking market, that will make each Monero worth more than $11,000. > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/?sh=191f47fa6ba6 > > Monero will inevitably become a major currency of the future. Probably nothing can stop that, so you may as well think about your privacy and choose to use it to protect your perfectly legal transactions too. Fortunately, Monero is designed to be a currency, not a store of value with a fixed supply that discourages spending. > > Black market adoption will put buy pressure on XMR, and that demand will slowly drive the price up. Monero may not be the fastest growing investment opportunity, but that's what makes it a better currency. I can't name an investment that would be lower risk, or name a better crypto currency. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmttk/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest Archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Monero) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

CointestMod

Monero {{pros}} & {{cons}} and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Coin Inquiries category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**** --- To submit an XMR pro-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdv9/coin_inquiries_monero_proarguments_february_2022/). | To submit an XMR con-argument, [click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/comments/sifdy7/coin_inquiries_monero_conarguments_february_2022/).

ScoobaMonsta

It may seem like no reason, but they don’t need to give a reason. They will have complete control over everyone. They can do whatever they want and the little people will have no power to a thing about it! That’s why people need to learn about what’s coming. And also learn how to take ownership of their wealth. Monero not only is censorship resistant money, it’s also protecting financial privacy! XMR 🚀. The true digital cash! 😎.

CryptoBombastic

Crypto as a currency is meant to spy our every move and enable a way to cancel people or entities with the flick of a finger. Only XMR is true digitial money.

imperator285

So people could still get funds onto Binance, but they would have to transfer real coins (BTC, ETH, LTC, XMR, xlm) in order to trade shit coins. Ironic.

JerryWong048

If the USA economy collapses to a point USD is trash paper. I would say XMR or whatever coin popular that time is going to be useless anyway. The battle of XMR should be against CBDC that allows the government to track every transactions you do.

rahjerz

I feel like there might be a big privacy trend next bull run. With all these central bank/gov shitcoins coming out I think coins like XMR, ZEC, SCRT are going to get a lot of attention.