BCH

night_crawlers

Just look at Canada, BTC, BCH, ETH, and LTC.

Proof_Elderberry_925

BCH could overtake btc. For $100 per coin I'll take that bet.

BlazingHotFireFox

It guess it is possible but given the prices and the amounts it is much more likely to be XMR than BCH imo.

SirArthurPT

Sorry, didn't paid attention to dates. Yet, BCH for the given dates is pretty much the same as XMR, also BCH has privacy features, such as CoinFusion. So assume XMR is a "just because".

SirArthurPT

What? Crypto around 100 USD lately? BCH, ZEC, SOL, MATIC, BSV... Actually to get XMR under 100 USD you need to go back to October 2020.

CointestAdmin

#Cardano Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the Cardano Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > ###**Background** > > It has been half a year for Cardano ever since the Alonzo (smart contract) release, which revealed that it's very difficult to build a DEX for eUXTO transactions instead of account transactions. Even after the release of SundaeSwap and MinSwap, we've seen issues for DEX development. I'm still following the Cardano subreddit, and I think it's better now since its members are much less cultish/bullish than before. > > On the [Cardano development roadmap](https://roadmap.cardano.org/en/), there's only scaling (Basho) and governance (Voltaire) left, and Cardano's followers are much less excited about those updates as they were for the smart contracts. > > ###**Cardano Cons** > > **Current state of Cardano Smart Contracts and DEXs**: > > - **Programming adoption**: For Cardano's Plutus smart contract, Haskell is not a well-liked programming language and feels arcane in comparison the Javascript-like language of Ethereum's Solidity. It's been difficult to onboard smart contract developers, especially since Ethereum is already so far ahead on adoption. And most other smart contract networks also support Solidity. Cardano is alone on Haskell, making it expensive to develop for it. > * **DEX rollout** in the past 6 months was an absolute mess. Concurrency failures for the Minswap Dex during their Alonzo smart contract test revealed that it's much harder to develop a DEX on Cardano smart contracts due to the limitation of eUXTOs. Back in September, SundaeSwap published [a detailed explanation of the concurrency issues](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/concurrency-state-cardano-c160f8c07575) plaguing Cardano. Proposed solutions involved centralization of the smart contract and using multiple UXTOs on a higher layer that would later settle on Layer 1. > * **SundaeSwap** finally released [an incomplete and slightly-buggy DEX](https://cryptobriefing.com/sundaeswap-promises-first-functional-dex-on-cardano/) on the testnet after many months of delays. It had [extremely slow speeds on SundaeSwap](https://beincrypto.com/cardanos-first-dex-sundaeswap-fails-to-impress-on-launch/) with a limit of only [9 users operations per minute per scooper](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/expectations-congestion-mainnet-launch-e9da5abfd819). Their reputation was hurt badly after the [Cardstarter scandal](https://cardanofeed.com/cardstarter-and-sundaeswap-a-falling-out-story-42690.html) where SundaeSwap cheated their Cardstarter partner of initial rewards, in addition to rumors of front-running. > * **MinSwap** has now [doubled SundaeSwap in total locked value](https://defillama.com/chain/Cardano) in only 3 weeks, but even this DEX only sees a couple of million USD worth of swaps daily. No other Cardano DEX even come close in size. Compare this to a whopping [$1.2 billion daily volume for Ethereum network's Uniswap](https://coinranking.com/exchanges). In their defense, it's only been 1-2 months, so it could just take time to grow. Another downside is that neither of these exchanges natively support the most popular Cardano wallet, Yoroi. Instead, you have to install specialized extensions to use these DEXs due to DEX design complexities. > > **Scaling issues** > > * **Transaction speed**: ADA's current maximum transaction speed is about 8 TPS, which can [scale to 257 TPS](https://coinmarketcap.com/alexandria/article/a-deep-dive-into-cardano) without additional updates. While this was fine before the Alonso update, after the release of smart contracts, the network has become very congested. Top scaling is 1000 TPS without Hydra Layer 2 scaling. This is still nowhere near the limits needed for global adoption on Layer 1. Many of its competitors like Solana, Polygon, Algorand, and Terra, have surpassed its TPS. > * **Scaling** via Hydra and sharding is far away on their timeline (Basho update maybe Q2 2022 if there are no further delays). Hydra also uses multi-party state channels, which are not as simple or convenient to use as Layer 1. We still have scant information of the protocol on a detailed level. > * **Storage inefficiency**: Cardano: [12.26M transactions in 10.76 GB](https://blockchair.com/cardano) = 880 bytes / transaction. Ethereum: [1.27B transactions in 279 GB](https://blockchair.com/ethereum) = 218 bytes / transaction. Ethereum is 4x more storage-efficient even before Cardano releases smart contracts. If Cardano were to scale to 1000 TPS, it would increase its blocksize by at least 30 TB per year. > > > **Competitors** > > * Cardano's development has been extremely slow and delayed so much that its competitors have caught up: Cardano has fallen from #3 in market cap to #6 last year after Solana passed it, and it has further fallen to #8. There are so many (monolithic Layer 1) Ethereum competitors that can already do smart contracts with DEXs more efficiently with higher scalability than Cardano: Polygon, Terra, Algorand, Elrond. The academic researcher crowd that Cardano was targeting has moved onto supporting Algorand. Even if Cardano releases a working DEX, they're technologically-behind their competitors. > > **Fees**: > > * Cardano Transactions [fees](https://messari.io/asset/cardano/chart/txn-fee-avg) are currently about $0.40 - 0.50 USD as of Mar 2022. While these are cheaper than current Bitcoin network transaction fees of ~2-4 USD and much cheaper than Ethereum network transaction fees of 2-20+ USD, they're way more expensive than those of other many other competing crypto networks. Nano, ALGO, XLM, XRP, DASH, BCH, and MATIC fees are all below $0.01 on average, which makes them appropriate for microtransactions. > * Swap fees on MinSwap and SundaeSwap are way cheaper than on Ethereum, but still expensive at $2+ due to processing fees. > > **Diminishing Staking Rewards in the long run**: > > * Cardano is currently inflationary to about [5-6% annually](https://solberginvest.com/blog/is-cardano-deflationary/). The inflation by itself isn't bad, but it's coming from a diminishing rewards pool that will gradually disappear by 2030. In just 4 years from now, the staking reward will drop to 2-3% unless transaction fees rise drastically to replace the rewards pool. If it drops that low, people will stop staking Cardano, leading to less security and decentralization. > > Disclosure: I own a tiny bit of ADA. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CointestOfficial/comments/ru2min/top_10_cardano_conarguments_january_2022/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Cardano_(blockchain_platform\)) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xpwwdf/daily_general_discussion_september_28_2022_gmt0/).

throwawayLouisa

You might well think so, but you're kinda describing something that already exists in BCH. The Bitcoin BTC community had already been offered that option, and had rejected it.

DeepOutTheMoney

The ultimate goal of bitcoin is to continue increasing in value, not to be a stable currency. I believe this was decided back in the BCH days. That's why BCH exists.

Antique_Veterinarian

“Will BCH, LTC, IOTA, Dash or NEM holders ever see these numbers again?” LTC holders already did last year.

Proof_Elderberry_925

I made a shit ton of money when BCH went from $70 in 2018 to $1600 in 2021. So fuck off

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Cash Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Blendzi0r which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Cash Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # What is Bitcoin Cash (BCH)? > > Bitcoin Cash is a [hard fork](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hard-fork.asp) of Bitcoin. It was launched in 2017. [It has 32MB blocks instead of Bitcoin’s 1MB](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/2015/08/21/what-is-the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-and-why-does-it-matter/), so it can handle many more transactions per second (TPS). And that’s the main difference between BTC and BCH, as its goal was to tackle [Bitcoin’s scalability problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem) without the second layer solutions. > > # What are the cons of BCH? > > **IT’S CENTRALIZED** > > BCH “inherited” BTC’s supply distribution from July 2017 when it was launched but the supply held by large addresses [has become more concentrated over time](https://coinmetrics.substack.com/p/coin-metrics-state-of-the-network-2d3) (while BTC is even more decentralized today). > > In 2019, [just two mining pools were able to perform a 51% attack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2019/05/24/bitcoin-cash-miners-undo-attackers-transactions-with-51-attack/). And although it was done for a good cause – to stop an unknown miner from exploiting a bug – it can serve as a prove that BCH was centralized already back then. > > ​ > > **THE NARRATIVE IS ON BITCOIN’S SIDE** > > The value of Bitcoin has gone up more than 2,000% since July 2017 while BCH has stayed below its price from July 2017 most of the time, not to mention its [ATH price of $4,355](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/) (it's 86% down from ATH as of 31.10.2021). > > Also liquidity and real-world usability of Bitcoin Cash [is nowhere near that of Bitcoin](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/#citation-4). It is clear that the great majority of investors chose Bitcoin after the 2017 hard fork and BCH is seen as an inferior copy. > > ​ > > **IT HAD ITS OWN HARD FORKS** > > People cringe at Internet Computer’s name, but for me, Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) takes the cake. It’s a hard fork of Bitcoin Cash that took place in late 2018. It has even larger blocks than BCH – [2GB](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/world-record-2-gigabyte-block-130000498.html). > > In 2020, there was another hard fork that produced two new chains- Bitcoin Cash ABC and Bitcoin Node. This shows that Bitcoin Cash has failed not only against Bitcoin, but had splits among its own community, further hurting its credibility. > > ​ > > **IT'S SCALABILITY COMES AT A COST** > > Bigger blocks have certain [disadvantages](https://www.sfox.com/blog/is-bigger-better-how-to-evaluate-bitcoin-cash-based-on-block-size/). Running nodes when the blocks are big requires more resources. Also, the commissions from transaction fees are lower, which makes mining the coin less appealing. This might result in nodes being manageable only by big, private companies, making BCH even more centralized. > > ​ > > **ITS MAIN ADVANTAGE ISN’T UTILIZED…** > > Although BCH’s blocks can handle up to 32MB of data, [they have not reached even 2MB since they were introduced in 2018](https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc-bch.html#3y). What's more, their average size is currently much lower than that of Bitcoin’s blocks. > > Taking into consideration the point above about the disadvantages of bigger blocks, it makes you wonder why BCH would push for such big blocks when most of the time they don't even use 3% of their capacity. > > ​ > > **… AND EVEN IF IT WAS, THERE'S LIGHTNING NETWORK** > > [SegWit](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/segwit-segregated-witness.asp) allows second layer solutions to be implemented on Bitcoin. One of those solutions is Lightning Network which has become very popular recently after being [adopted by El Salvador](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/lightning-network-bitcoin-usage-adoption-el-salvador) and [Twitter](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/118450/twitter-rolls-out-bitcoin-tipping-for-ios-users-via-lightning-looks-to-nfts-for-the-future). > > Lightning Network effectively eliminates the main advantage of Bitcoin Cash by allowing faster and cheaper transactions with bitcoins. Even if BCH fully utilized its 32MB blocks, it wouldn't be able to compete with Lightening Network. > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ > > **SUMMARY** > > Bitcoin Cash is a much worse store of value than Bitcoin and now it is also losing the electronic cash narrative, since the growing adoption of [Lightning Network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network) makes Bitcoin a much cheaper and faster payment option. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmtsi/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_bitcoin_cash/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin_Cash) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xo380x/daily_general_discussion_september_26_2022_gmt0/).

CointestAdmin

#Bitcoin Cash Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Blendzi0r which won 1st place in the Bitcoin Cash Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > # What is Bitcoin Cash (BCH)? > > Bitcoin Cash is a [hard fork](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hard-fork.asp) of Bitcoin. It was launched in 2017. [It has 32MB blocks instead of Bitcoin’s 1MB](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/2015/08/21/what-is-the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-and-why-does-it-matter/), so it can handle many more transactions per second (TPS). And that’s the main difference between BTC and BCH, as its goal was to tackle [Bitcoin’s scalability problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem) without the second layer solutions. > > # What are the pros of BCH? > > ​ > > **IT’S MORE SCALABLE THAN BITCOIN** > > As mentioned in the introduction, BCH has bigger blocks than Bitcoin. It allows the network to handle more than 200 TPS compared to Bitcoin’s 7. [Transactions on Bitcoin Cash are faster and transaction fees are lower](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/#citation-4). > > The average transaction fee on BCH network usually stays substantially below one cent while an average transaction fee on Bitcoin network is usually much above $2 and during congestion, like earlier this year, can even reach [more than $60](https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html). > > ​ > > **IT’S BASED ON BITCOIN…** > > As a hard fork of Bitcoin, BCH offers many benefits of Bitcoin fundamentals, like anonymity, reliability (they both use the same cryptographic hash functions - [Secure Hash Algorithm 2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2)), limited number of coins that will ever be issued ([21 million](https://decrypt.co/34876/why-is-bitcoins-supply-limit-set-to-21-million), same as Bitcoin) and, last but not least, the codebase. > > ​ > > **… BUT IT HAS MORE FUNCTIONS AND UPGRADES…** > > BCH is utilizing smart contracts, including [Cashscript](https://cashscript.org/). Cashscript will bring [DeFi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentralized_finance) into Bitcoin Cash, so it might compete with other DeFi platforms. There are also other developments like CashSuffle and CashFusion that [further improve privacy on social networks](https://changelly.com/blog/btc-vs-bch/). > > And while Bitcoin had it's last upgrade in 2017, Bitcoin Cash is upgraded regularly. The [last upgrade](https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-cash-upgrades-successfully-network-works-as-intended/) was applied in May this year and was focused on improving the user-experience and double-spending protection. BCH developers are also aware of the past tensions that resulted in hard forks and decided to implement [CHIPs](https://bch.info/en/chips) that are supposed to make future upgrades more off-centered, independent and overall smoother. > > ​ > > **… AND IT’S CLOSER TO WHAT SATOSHI NAKAMOTO INTENDED** > > In July 2017 [Roger Ver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ver) and others stated they felt that adopting BIP 91 (that would later activate [SegWit](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/segwit-segregated-witness.asp)) favored people who wanted to treat bitcoin as a digital investment rather than as a transactional currency. That's why Bitcoin Cash was created. > > In the [whitepaper](https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf), Satoshi Nakamoto intended Bitcoin to be a transactional currency - “an electronic cash system". But today, it needs to rely on the second layer solutions in order to achieve that, therefore [some people argue](https://www.newsbtc.com/news/bitcoin/roger-ver-bitcoin-cash-is-a-better-investment-than-bitcoin/) that Bitcoin Cash is closer to what Nakamoto described. > > ​ > > **IT’S ONE OF THE MOST ACCEPTED CRYPTOCURRENCIES** > > As of 21.10.2021, [1168 merchants accept Bitcoin Cash](https://acceptbitcoin.cash/). And despite the fact that Bitcoin has risen in value since the hard fork while Bitcoin Cash has dropped in value a little, it’s still one of the most popular coins and the project is continuously developed. > > ​ > > **SUMMARY** > > Although Bitcoin Cash supporters claim that it can do whatever Bitcoin does but better and although it is one of the most popular cryptocurrencies that is constantly updated, it's impossible to deny the fact that it has lost against Bitcoin when it comes to adoption. And, unfortunately for BCH, it's all about adoption. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ovmtt8/rcc_cointest_coin_inquiries_bitcoin_cash/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin_Cash) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

GayTrainPressure

This makes no sense. It can be a currency AND a store of value, like BCH. Where do you think it gets its value in the first place? It’s UTILITY as a currency. How useful is a currency that costs more in fees??

chuck_portis

So from your top 10: BCH, IOTA, DASH, NEM are probably cooked. They are #3, 7, 8, 9. The others are all still quite relevant. Also, LTC flirted with its 2017 high this bull run. It remained relevant, although far from a top story. I'd say the best strategy is probably similar to S&P500. Buy a market-weighted index. Even better if it's dynamic like S&P500 and auto-adjusts. That way you'll always catch the new trends and ditch the stuff that's fading out. Crypto top 25 is probably what you'd want.

Shibinator

How come BCH was described as "will never rise again", but not LTC? Or IOTA or DASH (both of which it is outperforming)? > Remind me, BCH is how many % off its ATH right now? A lot.But if your criteria is "% off ATH = quality of coin", you're a degenerate gambler not someone informed about cryptocurrency, and you will find that almost every coin in the market is performing poorly right now.

SenatusSPQR

> Note that BCH has doublespend proofs now. Okay, sounds good. I should look into this further I guess, but I'd say that for small transactions I'd trust it even without the doublespend proofs either way. > It's by no means a silver bullet, but I would still expect to see improvement in hardware decentralization. I think the discount on volume buying is just one, small aspect of it. Would actually be interesting to see a breakdown of a commercial miner on what their costs are and such, but I don't think that stuff is public. I would say discounts on the ASICs itself is one thing, but having access to cheaper capital and cheaper energy might be even bigger, for example. > Unlike you, I perceive pooled mining to be a significant defect. I would love a way to discourage it. Why? What do you see as the big defect there? > No earthly clue Haha, fair enough. I wanted to do some math on it but guess we'll skip that part then haha.

temp45667

No, BCH has been on a steady decline for 5 years, and IOTA isn't too similar, as are DASH and NEM is down 98% from its ATH. For most of the coins posted, this is significantly off their previous ATHs. Only ETH and BTC (and from this particular time, ADA) are anywhere near their values at this time and ADA and ETH went a lot higher than the values posted here at their heights.

BwieDieter

"Hatred" Are you taking the piss? Or do you actually sense hatred for BCH in this post? If so, where/why? Remind me, BCH is how many % off its ATH right now?

Skeptain

It would be called BCH then..

jessquit

> I think for most small transactions 0-conf works well enough Note that BCH has doublespend proofs now. These make it essentially impossible to perform the typical "fast respend" type merchant attacks. This means that the only way to effectively doublespend BCH at retail is to have a complicit miner that produces a special wallet that enables doublespending. Such a wallet would never be widely used (it wouldn't be accepted in any official "app store"). We are continuing to work towards closing that final gap with a technique to allow the possibility of non-corrupt miners to punish offending miners, but it's an idea that's still half-baked. > even if a ton of mining equipment gets liquidated, there's very little reason to think large entities/commercial entities won't still be able to mine more efficiently than small miners Mostly true. However I would expect the ratio of large/small miners to diminish. And with a flattening of ASIC production comes a reduced ability for large miners to gain a significant advantage through their ability to volume-buy next-generation hardware. It's by no means a silver bullet, but I would still expect to see improvement in hardware decentralization. > What do you see as a realistic market cap in such a scenario? No earthly clue 😂. The only point I was trying to make is that to the degree that the market cap is based on speculative money benefiting rich 1%ers, the energy usage will feel wasteful. To the degree that the market cap is based on real-world usage benefitting more people, it will feel less wasteful.

Shibinator

> Let's be honest, Bitcoin Cash will never rise again (probably) Lol. Fans of Proof Of Work should understand that BCH has the highest community PoW of any coin by a titanic margin, and don't dismiss it so easily.

SenatusSPQR

> Exchanges That's true, exchanges (and other large transactions) are special cases. I think for most small transactions 0-conf works well enough, because even if theft occurs the theft is likely to be small. It feels a bit.. incomplete, in a way, but is probably more of an emotional thing than a rational thing. > Centralization Hm, I think the thing is that even if a ton of mining equipment gets liquidated, there's very little reason to think large entities/commercial entities won't still be able to mine more efficiently than small miners, right? High price or low price, it doesn't really change the advantage. Personally I don't see pooled mining as such a huge issue, maybe there's a way to make that decentralized/trustless in a way, but I'd say the underlying centralization is a far bigger risk than pools. > Energy usage Yep, totally agreed. Some back of the napkin calculations say that with 1 billion txs a day, which is roughly 2000x what Bitcoin does now, average energy usage per transaction would be in the range of 0.7-1 kWh or so. To me that still feels kind of high, and this is based on Bitcoin's current market cap. > and the market cap becomes more proportional to the societal benefit. What do you see as a realistic market cap in such a scenario? Thank you as well, once again confirming my bias that the BCH community is far more realistic and open to discussion than most others.

temp45667

Did you even look at the picture from the **top ten 5 years ago** in this post? Almost all of them are down from their values in Dec 2017, many of them massively (BCH, IOTA etc down more than 90%).

jessquit

I think you raise excellent points. I won't try to "rebut" them as such but here are some counterarguments that may influence your opinion. 1. I don't agree that exchange transfer time is the best way to judge performance of a system that's intended for buying and selling things. I think exchange transfer time is a special case where thievery can be done at scale. Almost no purchase situations have that particular risk, especially not in person merchant transactions. >2. The centralization over time issue is just as prevalent in BCH as in BTC. This is an excellent point that cannot be disputed. My only counterpoint is that I am of the opinion that crypto in general is still in a long term "rampant speculation" bubble phase and miners are part of that. I believe crypto will eventually reach a hype plateau (if it hasn't already) after which we will have a long multi year (decade?) long downturn during which a shitton of mining equipment will be liquidated, and future investment in ASIC development will dry up. I think at that point we should expect to see a better distribution of mining hardware. Pooled mining is still a serious centralization flaw that doesn't have a current solution but should one ever surface I think BCH will be quick to adopt it if possible. That would be a game changer. >3. Energy usage, while theoretically far lower per transaction since BCH scales better, would be just as high in BCH as in BTC given similar market caps. This is generally true, but to me the energy consumption issue is a question of efficiency, not total consumption. If a billion people were using BCH every day then the current energy consumption could be much more easily justified because that energy would be going to serve a tangible benefit for a huge number of people and a much larger total economy. The fact that BTC consumes so much energy simply to create an online gambling casino for spectators is a big reason why I and others consider it a waste of energy. Thanks for polite and informed discussion :)

vinibarbosa

Would love to know what you think about it. BCH fan?

Chill-BL

So after 5 years, the people who stood by BCH we're correct and now the supposed: >intellectuals lol, start opening up the conversation, which they back then, we're censoring and ridiculing. These "Intellectuals" done way more damage to the crypto sphere, then they have benefitted anyone or anything in it.

StiltonG

Very good point when you're talking about all the altcoins, but I've been following this closely since 2013, and studying the historical BTC charts prior to 2013, and with respect to Bitcoin **(BTC)**, I'm 99% sure we'll see a new ATH within the next 3 years. If history is any guide at all, BTC will soar to a new ATH > 200K by 2025, the year after the next halving. With respect to the alts, I wouldn't bet any significant money on any of them , but I slightly disagree with your assessment of BCH. That particular alt while having a *miserable* value trajectory since 2018 after an over-pumped spike in late 2017, actually is one of the few alts that conceivably *could* hit a new ATH. I' not saying I think it probable that it will, but it could. If BTC goes above 200K in the next major bull run (eg. 2025) it would not surprise me to see BCH ride the coat-tails up to 5K or even higher. BCH could be attractive for those who want a less expensive P2P e-cash alternative to BTC & who might own both (I own both). LTC I doubt it, and Dash I strongly doubt it (hate to say it because I own both those coins as well, couldn't resist buying up some of them while they are < $100, but it was just playing with fun money and I doubt they will go anywhere).

fredmonck

BCH has really a massive dip..wondering if it will recover

SenatusSPQR

1. While BCH does scale better in terms of # of transactions, it still takes quite a while to transact. I know 0-conf fixes this, but 0-conf isn't really practical for large amounts, I think. A good proxy for this to me is the time it takes for exchanges to see a deposit as confirmed, which for BCH on Kraken for example is 2.5 hours (15 confs). 2. The centralization over time issue is just as prevalent in BCH as in BTC. I write more about this [here if you're interested](https://senatus.substack.com/p/why-99-of-cryptocurrencies-centralize), but in short Bitcoin mining is a business, one focused on cost efficiency since the revenue side is exogenous. Miners' costs are energy costs, buying ASICs, maintenance, capital costs etc. Almost all of these are costs where with scale, your cost per unit goes down. Because of this, large miners get ever bigger, which leads to degraded decentralization and security. 3. Energy usage, while theoretically far lower per transaction since BCH scales better, would be just as high in BCH as in BTC given similar market caps. I don't see energy usage as a problem per se, but do see it as an inefficiency and as an impediment to broad adoption since many people care about this. As you can see in my flair I'm personally more optimistic about Nano, but do think BCH has some important advantages: 1. More current adoption. BCH is far better known, has the Bitcoin name, and it's currently both far easier to spend and has more on and offramps. 2. Better marketing. BCH has a fair few good influencers (Roger Ver, Kim Dotcom come to mind) who do a great job pushing BCH usage. 3. It's closer to Bitcoin, so while Bitcoiners might be loath to switch to for example Nano (or IOTA, or ETH, any example works) BCH is close enough that those previously enthusiastic about Bitcoin have an "out" in going to BCH. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. What do you think?

SenatusSPQR

Yup, that might definitely have helped with this issue. I'm quite fond of BCH and what it stands for, but I think that while it potentially solves the fee income issue it still has some other issues.

SenatusSPQR

Heh yep figured you were a BCH enthusiast! I quite like BCH's community because they truly care about having decentralized digital cash, but I see too many issues with BCH (similar to BTC) to become fully enthusiastic about it unfortunately.

Stop_The_End

Hope You guys discuss segwit and the theft of the BTC monicker from Bitcoin. How BCH used the original protocols, then how digital cash was realized in BitcoinSV that now does more transactions than 60-95% of ALL OTHER CRYPTO combined EVERYDAY. Ridiculous that so many of you don’t realize that Bitcoin is not BTC.

haight6716

This still seems like the right solution and could be implemented at any time. BCH did it, so could BTC.

jessquit

You're describing the way Bitcoin worked prior to the 2017 "always full blocks" reengineering program that led to the BTC/BCH split.

throwawayLouisa

That's two errors in a single post - impressive! I'd only have been more impressed if your comment had a watermark. I understand how nano works, I still have some from 2017 when it was called railblocks. > " it isn't secure or reliable enough" Unlike Bitcoin it's never had a fastmine inflation bug (especially not one found by a BCH developer), its never had a double spend, and it's never had a rollback > "the months long outage last year" Even while being attacked it never ran slower than Bitcoin, and that attack vector has long since been closed by the change to TAAC/PoS4QoS > "the fact that one can't independently verify the state of the network" That's simply downright FUD, contrary to the Core Principles of this sub. Just like Bitcoin, anyone can run a full node and verify transactions have received 67% of the vote.

Skeptain

Roger Ver was not the founder of Bitcoin Cash. And BCH is better than BTC, only the price is different. But most people never tried it and comment without knowledge and without experience.

Totoro_69

Bitcoin Founder Faketoshi Wright says BSV is better than BCH. BCash Founder Ver says BCH is better then BTC...

throwawayLouisa

> "With increased adoption network activity..." Wut? You do know it's already running at half peak settlement capacity, right? And that during the blocksize wars, BTC supporters were given the option of higher capacity - and specifically rejected it in favour of higher decentralization? Everyone still left in BTC has already rejected a capacity increase - they'd be in BCH already if that's what they wanted. But they DON'T want that. They like it here. This is what they WANT.

CryptoCryptonaire

Both BCH and XLM are designed to be used. They aren't a good store of value, but are amazing at quick and cheap transactions!

pjman7

BCH

yayaoa

It's a trashy fork of eth. That's it. Same with BCH, BSV and whatever other trashy forks of eth and BTC out there. All bzst except the original.

Raj_UK

Ah ok I guess I was burnt by seeing YouTubers and sites I thought were impartial shilling coins ... And tradfi going from publicly hating on crypto 5 years ago to now loving it and mysteriously including BCH on their offerings, implying they'd received the airdrop in 2017 at a time they were accumulating in secret #sighs

LiveFreeOrSpaz

The Sword of Schrodinger is hanging over it's head. Maybe they have been holding Satoshi for years trying to torture the keys out of him. Maybe they killed him trying. Maybe they got his keys, and are waiting until the Dollar is in Freefall to dump them on the market. The point is that there are giant bags out there ... and the banking industry has a lot of dollars. BCH and BSV are suspect as well, for the same reason. If a coin is largely held by an unidentified somebody, that person has the power to destroy it. This goes for any coin with a large premine. Coins that do not suffer this problem should set up a fund to reward Satoshi if he ever surfices, and then the premined coins should be abandoned, IMHO.

dirtyhandsome

I don’t see any incentive to invest in an abandoned chain? ETH is where the action is going to be. It’s nice to see ETC is still around but it’s much like LTC or BCH, … it’s there but nobody really knows what to do with it. People have moved on.

LiveFreeOrSpaz

I think he would hold his BCH, and maybe BSV.

MichaelAischmann

Holding some BCH, NANO, BAT & MOONS. Not buying anymore tho.

Acceptable-Risks

Ok I see you're coming from a place of resentment and anger because you're a BCH goon. Adios.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Singapore's largest bank DBS Group has launched a self-directed crypto trading service for accredited investors, enabling them to trade cryptos on DDEx, one of the world's first bank-backed digital exchanges. The minimum investment required is $500, and the available cryptocurrencies include Bitcoin (BTC), Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Ethereum (ETH), and XRP. DBS stressed that client security is one of its primary focuses. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

SakuraNinja12

Well, to start. When it comes to Bitcoin you'll need a wallet for it, i'd recommend Electum, or a wallet that you would feel comfortable using (there's plenty out there to choose from). MyMonero isn't for Bitcoin, it's for XMR which is a privacy focused project. To change BTC or BCH to XMR, you would need some sort of exchange (there's lots of CEXs to choose from). Bitfinex probably isn't the only one, there's probably some smaller exchanges that you could do the transaction through too, or if you're okay with P2P, maybe something like localbitcoins or localmonero?

Fresh-Chemical-9084

Where’s the Ellen Degeneres version of this? Would love $50,000 worth of BCH.

Harold838383

I always received some BCH from someone on this sub. Could there be a BCH whale in our midst?

Asleep_Ambassador_66

I'd love to know what comment was it that made him tipped you with BCH instead of moons. I mean, this is the first time I've actually seen someone tipping a different coin.

jewbagel10

Other Highlights: CKB for $1,528 BCH for $4,799 BSV for $2,006 ETHW for $3,041 DASH for $984 RVN for $5,628 ERG for $961

anonymouscitizen2

Totally useless? And yet Bitcoin is number one and I could list dozens of “high tps” “blockchains” that have done nothing but lose marketshare and have next to 0 users compared to Bitcoin. Would love to hear why you think Bitcoin is on top if it’s so useless? Why is stuff like BCH and Nano falling every year in marketshare? The market doesn’t care about tp/s. This tp/s marketing gimmick has been going on since 2012 your centralized VC funded database is not crypto and the market doesn’t want it.

anonymouscitizen2

And it has 1/1000th of the users making the throughput totally unnecessary! Shitcoins have been angling the “more tps than X!” Marketing gimmick since forever. How has that worked out for BCH, Nano, …….. into infinity? All they’ve done is lost marketshare. I could fork a crypto with 1M tx/s by being the only node. The market doesn’t fall for this shit anymore, anybody with money knows all they are doing is sacrificing decentralization and we don’t need another highly centralized VC coin to be bagholders of. There are thousands. The market has made it abundantly clear that sheer tx/s is not valuable but unscrupulous money grabbers sacrifice everything crypto stood for to make a profit. Nobody cares and the only person this convinces is total noobs with 700$ “portfolios.”

ronchon

>If you fork a POW chain because someone is attacking it Forks don't happen because of attacks, but because of disagreements splitting in 2 versions. When BTC and BCH forked, did BTC miners abandon mining BTC to 'attack' BCH? Supporters of each version simply kept mining their version. &#x200B; >You'd need 66.7% to punish small validators But 66% is for finality. The way I understood it (but I'm not sure so I could be wrong), between 50% and 66% the chain doesn't 'finalize' and everyone gets punished until its resolved. 🐷

reshail_raza

Bitcoin isn't slow because of PoW, kadena uses pow too but is it slow? BCH uses mining too iirc and is it slow?

parakite

There would be pages, one could find by googling. Off the top of my head, the main is of course Bitcoin. Then according to my own order, its Monero, Dogecoin ( yes, dogecoin had no premine, the founder sold it for like few hundred dollar whatever doge he had mine). BCH. But note that not every coin that claims to have no premine is telling the truth. I just ran into one coin that made a bitcointalk annoucement, that said 'mining starts in 15 minutes'. What kind of non-premine is that, because the founders are best placed to start mining that. Who is going to mine a random coin like that, thats almost a premine. Overall, the whole space is filled with premined grifts, and I'd advice anyone to stick with bitcoin if they are for the long term, and buy monero for the privacy things.

Lillica_Golden_SHIB

I wouldn't expect too much from Crypto king as I also didn't from the so-called Bitcoin Jesus and now BCH proponent lol

Giga79

>Hard forking with social consensus can "fix" anything. The point is, social slashing or DAO roll-backs is problematic. It requires central social coordination. Yes. I agree. Social slashing is the "going nuclear" option in case of emergency. The only time it'll ever come up is if the network is being attacked by a malicious majority, in which case we'd be very glad to have the option compared to not having the option in POW. Also if potential attackers are aware of the mechanism they're a lot less likely to try to accumulate a majority in the first place. Like a nuke, hopefully you never have to use it. >I specifically refer to 51% pool attacks... not generalised 51% attacks where an entity physically controls all miners or has all the stake private keys. A mining pool is in control of the *work* in POW. They're no different than one entity physically in control of all the private keys. If a pool changes protocol to start mining ABCoin there's nothing you can do as a miner except monitor for it and be prepared to move before you contribute any work, but no one is doing that. If you're specifically referring to 51% pool attacks, comparing POW to POS, then a pool with 51% can't really do anything in POS. They can censor a transaction but if at any point another validator picks it up it'll be processed, which is referred to as *weak* censorship. A POW pool with 51% of the hashrate can reverse transactions, censor, mint coins, etc. They're not very comparable. >Yes, if a majority of Bitcoin pools behave bad.. that PoW is lost. However, Bitcoin can permisonlessly *recover* without any social coordination nonsense. They in their own time.. point their miners elsewhere. I don't see how Bitcoin would recover from an attack without any social consensus. Were you here for the BCH fork? It was *nothing but* social coordination to keep people on "the real" BTC. I can't imagine each pool with their own unique fork trying to justify why *theirs is the real BTC* without some coordination around it, or else the chain will split into many contentious small chains. >With a 2/3 validator pool attack.. the attackers *drop* the other 1/3 honest blocks. If you're looking for a pool and one has 65% dominance and you add *more in* anyway, you should already know what happens next. People self regulate though. If a mining pool ever grows too large miners find other pools to use since they don't want to be responsible for attacking (and consequently losing) their investment. No reason POS would be different. If your staking pool is too large, withdraw and find another, and problem solved. The risks are lower and rewards higher in a small pool than in a large one so I think the markets will be in a good equibilirum as soon as people are able to '*withdraw* and find another'.

Olafhadtopoo

BCH tips are real. I got tipped for a comment too. All you need to do is to send the bot your BCH address and you’ll get the til delivered to it. Nothing else and it’s not shady as many here are saying.

reshail_raza

I got tipped BCH too. You need to install BCH wallet for it

_Royal_Insylum

Yeah, I just wrote a post on this, you can tip in more than just moons! BCH is definitely tippable on reddit, and its awesome

Br0kenRabbitTV

I've never once bought BCH (or any other coin). I'm a merchant that accepted BTC exclusivity on multiple webstores from 2011 to 2017.. I still accept it now, as well as have a LN option.. but literally nobody pays with them now.. maybe 3% of crypto sales. The main coins spent with me in 2022 are LTC, BCH and XMR. Even coins like DOGE are used more than BTC for payments with me now days. I also have built mining pools and other services surrounding crypto. So yeah. I'm not an "investor", gambler, or a broke ass dreamer.

Izzeheh

This op comes of as a paid BCH shill

Belmont_the_IV

Right because you bought BCH *for the fundamentals*, right?

premium-domains

There was a thread here exactly like this last week. I mean the text is almost identical. Could be a coincidence, could be people paid to advertise BCH

slasula

These BCH tips are totally legit as long as they are from chaintip. They’re actually really good 👍

AmbitiousPhilosopher

You can tip in anything someone makes a tipping app for. Bitcoin used to have one, now that it has high fees it doesn't exist anymore. BCH, nano and some others still do lots of tipping, some subreddits block them.

Justreadingcomment

Correct. It seems like it is legit. I got $2 in BCH sent over

Skeptain

People think this is a scam since it is hardly possible to send such small amounts with BTC effectively due to the fees. There is a tipbot which processes tips from user to user. Someone was nice tipping you $2 in BCH. Invest 10 minutes into reading about Bitcoin Cash and find out that it is a legit project and no scam.

fortniterider

Is it possible to tip in BCH? Not only Moons?

Casta37

The simplest hint this is a scam is that it's in BCH kekw

EdgeLord19941

If there's any sort of link in the message it's a scam. If they sent you real BCH to your address and you can verify the contract it's likely safe, but I still wouldn't touch it.

Maxx3141

It may not be a scam, but BCH is a scam.

Br0kenRabbitTV

>Algorand 'solved' the scaling problem by copying what Bitcoin cash did - and somehow made it worse. They simply make bigger blocks, but they sacrificed efficiency. Bitcoin Cash creates 32MB blocks every 10 minutes - Algorand requires \~ 800 MB to accomplish the same task. Basically, it requires 25x more data to process transactions than a five year old crypto. And none of them can tell you how to add the coin to a webstore etc.. had multiple people try and tell me it's better than BCH, LTC etc.. but nobody uses it, and even if there were plugins for all major webstores scripts etc.. like there are with serious coins like BCH, it would just be a dead payment gateway as none of these people are even the type to buy things with crypto and just want to hold it and hope the price goes up. Not to mention most merchants including myself to not want to add any POS coins, we don't even class them as proper crypto. Why would anybody start using ALGO instead of BCH, LTC, XMR etc..

ll_TheBrave_ll

Hmm, interesting. I am more looking at it from a current utilization perspective. BTC is being utilized immensely more than BCH, so I see why it’s valued higher. LTC is utilized far more than DOGE even though the media would probably have you thinking otherwise. I see no reason why whales would not value LTC higher than DOGE except for nefarious reasons.

tsumy

BCH could be easily twice as valuable as BTC. Even more, the update which defines bch was planed to BTC. But to be able to set a node in a toaster was put behind of being able to use it as a currency in the l1. But the holders and miners decided, and lighting still marginal