BSV

lightmar

I mean, think of it as a data packet. How many do you need in your IP stack to use the internet? You can store a lot of data in a BSV OPcode.

Round_Robin_Smoothie

I know everything there is to know about BSV. That wasn’t your dumbest comment (Dumb, but contextually not your dumbest). BTC and ETH to 0? That’s a clear sign of extra chromosomes. You’re making ridiculous, sensational comments and I just don’t really give a shit. Go shill to the other smooth brainers, I already have my alt portfolio in place and BSV isn’t in it.

serious_beach_monk

Could you please just do 10 minutes of research on BSV before completely closing your mind to it. It is Proof of Work, same protocol as Satoshi Nakamoto whitepaper, it has 21 million coins, and can do millions of transactions per second. IN comparison, BTC can do 7 transaction per second, and as soon as the Core Development team introduced the limit to cripple BTC and make it digitial gold, Vitalik created Ethereum so increase transactions and allow turing completeness so can do Smart contracts etc. BSV can do smart contracts etc. Worth a 10 minute due diligence in case I might be wrong. Image going back 10+ years so you could buy a whole bitcoin for under 100USD. BSV is literally the original bitcoin protocol. Also you might want to read Hijacking Bitcoin to understand the different narrative of what happened to BTC.

serious_beach_monk

You're talking about utility... BSV is all about utility. Not sure how it is the dumbest thing I've ever said... You don't know about all the other dumb things I say.

serious_beach_monk

Do 10 minute research into Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV). What is its utility, it's purpose etc. The original bitcoin is making a comeback.

serious_beach_monk

You're talking sense. Check out Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) the original Bitcion Protocol and not the scammy fork of BTC.

serious_beach_monk

BTC's vision?? What. Look at the original White Paper by Satoshi Nakamoto. Bitcoin Satoshi Vision has restored Bitcoin back to Bitcoin 0.1. (BSV). It has 21 million, Proof of Work, can do smart contracts, and can scale to billion of transactions per second. This is the only blockchain we need for Web3 / IPV6.

dcur3

No, not really referencing anything in particular. I just think through time its done its job, no downtime, easily accessible, and can be quick enough despite what people say on here. Thats why I really dont believe in things like BCH, LTC, BSV. Bitcoin just continues to get stronger both in numbers and in technology.

serious_beach_monk

I can assure you that BTC, ETH that whole eco-system will go to zero. it is inevitable. It's not about the story, the religion, it's simply about the technology. This entire space was created after Satoshi Nakamoto released the White Paper and the original protocol. BTC has been hijacked by small-blockers who don't understand how it should work. Look into Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) to really dig deeper into your due diligence.

Blockchainauditor

The same private key that controls the BTC controls the BCH from that first fork, and the same amount of BSV from a later fork … as well as lots of other little amounts from other forks.

serious_beach_monk

Don't trade. Just buy some Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) and forget about it for 5 years. Good bye.

Due-Glove4808

Sure they can make up their own shitcoin like BSV or BCH, everyone else will stay in real chain.

zxsmart

I've listed to a lot of podcast/interviews/articles by all of these people and I recall hearing a few things Preston said that I disagree with and think are demonstrably wrong. I do not recall exactly what those things are, but I think they were regarding what gives money value and IIRC some strategies that are sub-optimal. I know Preston sold Bitcoin during the 2020-21 bull market. While this may have turned out to be profitable for him, I think it is absolute an incorrect strategy. No one who really understands how valuable Bitcoin is is going to trade their Bitcoin for shit with the hopes of later trading that shit for more Bitcoin. I also recall a podcast with him and Mark Moss where they talk about promoting Bitcoin and they (mostly Moss) spew nonsense this dumb "spend and replace" narrative and other non-sensical mid-wit ideas for encouraging "adoption" without understanding what adoption means. IMO people who have a perfectly correct view of Bitcoin/monetary economics and also seem to understand strategy are: Lyn Alden Michael Saylor Saifedean Matttttheew Kratter People who are mostly correct and definitely worth listening to, but who have also said things that are incorrect or have some small area of misunderstanding: Parker Lewis Preston Pysh Stephan Livera Cory Klippsten Michael Goldstien Daniel Krawitz (pre-BSV) Vijay Boyapota Nayib Bukele Max Kaizer Then there is a category for almost everyone else in Bitcoin who has some partial understanding e.g. Robert Breedlove, Larry Lepard, etc Then you have 50 ft of unintelligent shit and nonsensical garbage that is not worth listening to at all. Then you have Jeff Snyder

Realistic_Fee_00001

>BCH has been 51%'d. This is another one of these lies Maxis like to tell. When the majority of miners return coins that people accidentally sent to segwit addresses against an attacker that tries to steal these coins you don't call it an attack. Otherwise you would need to call every block an attack, because usually good miners have more than 51% that's the default on Bitcoin. >It's was controlled by a single mining pool at one point and also by a couple of pools working together. I think the two biggest pools right now have over 40% of the hashrate. Yes that was in 2009 when they started mining. You can compare miner decentralization here: BCH: https://explorer.melroy.org/graphs/mining/pools BTC: https://mempool.space/graphs/mining/pools BCH has a lot of unknown miners likely BTC miners that do not want to show they mine BTC >You also are mistaken about the game theory involved here. The fact that BTC miners can mine BCH with their setup is definitely worth noting, but it DOES NOT mean that malicious actors avoid BCH. It's simple an incentive for BTC miners not to attack the network. You state it yourself, the incentive is to not attack BCH. Irrational attacker are of course always a threat but they lose money while doing so. Currently they lose more money attacking BTC than BCH. But you first need someone willing to spend money to attack. BCH has been secure for 7 years and there were no lack of hate for it. One would think a rich BTc maxi would already have attacked it no? The truth is attack a chain has much less impact than is usually anticipated. eCash and BSV both have been successfully attacked for some time but eventually the attack stopped and the chain continued and they are still here independent from what we think about their validity. >If a malicious group attacked the BCH network they could in all probability do significant damage with double spends before any significant amount of BTC hashrate could swap over. The double spent coins are easily laundered away and a reorganisation of the chain will be too late. Then do it. >In the past when a fork happened on BCH a miner ended up with coins that they shouldn't have. I think you misunderstand how forks work. How can a miner end up with coins that they shouldn't have? They get exactly what they mine nothing more nothing less. >A couple of mining pools collaberated to 51% attack the network and change things. Whilst this 51% reorganisation was done out of good intent, it proves that the chain is not that secure. Yes, same for BTC. You need 3 mining pools to get over 51% on BTC sometimes even 2 are enough. >For anyone reading, don't trust, verify! Here's a good starting point: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2019/05/24/bitcoin-cash-miners-undo-attackers-transactions-with-51-attack/ If this would have happened on BTC Maxis would be full of praise and tell you: "see Bitcoin works the good miners won" But not on BCH on BCH a 51% attack is fabricated. 🤷‍♂️ To be honest I would have let these coins rot there. Fuck the segwit hack (every segwit tx is a anyone can spend tx) to bad for the people who use it.

Realistic_Fee_00001

If you look at the history you'd recognize, that this is not the case. BCH has been attacked and won. BSV has been attacked and lost but nothing happened to the price. eCash has been attack and little happened to the price. And they are all still here. If you are honest, the reason is branding.

serious_beach_monk

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, and this is only my opinion, but BTC (what you refer to as Bitcoin), ETH, Solana are all Sh\*tcoins. Look into Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) and read altnerative narrative books like Hijacking Bitcoin by Roger Ver... That will open your eyes at the scams going on. Never sell completly. Dollar Cost Average in and out to ensure you don't fully regret.

bundabrg

BSV similar percentage. I wouldn't read too much into it.

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Cash Con-Arguments Below is a Bitcoin Cash con-argument written by Blendzi0r. > # What is Bitcoin Cash (BCH)? > > Bitcoin Cash is a [hard fork](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hard-fork.asp) of Bitcoin. It was launched in 2017. [It has 32MB blocks instead of Bitcoin’s 1MB](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/2015/08/21/what-is-the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-and-why-does-it-matter/), so it can handle many more transactions per second (TPS). And that’s the main difference between BTC and BCH, as its goal was to tackle [Bitcoin’s scalability problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem) without the second layer solutions. > > # What are the cons of BCH? > > **IT’S CENTRALIZED** > > BCH “inherited” BTC’s supply distribution from July 2017 when it was launched but the supply held by large addresses [has become more concentrated over time](https://coinmetrics.substack.com/p/coin-metrics-state-of-the-network-2d3) (while BTC is even more decentralized today). > > In 2019, [just two mining pools were able to perform a 51% attack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2019/05/24/bitcoin-cash-miners-undo-attackers-transactions-with-51-attack/). And although it was done for a good cause – to stop an unknown miner from exploiting a bug – it can serve as a prove that BCH was centralized already back then. > > ​ > > **THE NARRATIVE IS ON BITCOIN’S SIDE** > > The value of Bitcoin has gone up more than 2,000% since July 2017 while BCH has stayed below its price from July 2017 most of the time, not to mention its [ATH price of $4,355](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/) (it's 86% down from ATH as of 31.10.2021). > > Also liquidity and real-world usability of Bitcoin Cash [is nowhere near that of Bitcoin](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/#citation-4). It is clear that the great majority of investors chose Bitcoin after the 2017 hard fork and BCH is seen as an inferior copy. > > ​ > > **IT HAD ITS OWN HARD FORKS** > > People cringe at Internet Computer’s name, but for me, Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) takes the cake. It’s a hard fork of Bitcoin Cash that took place in late 2018. It has even larger blocks than BCH – [2GB](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/world-record-2-gigabyte-block-130000498.html). > > In 2020, there was another hard fork that produced two new chains- Bitcoin Cash ABC and Bitcoin Node. This shows that Bitcoin Cash has failed not only against Bitcoin, but had splits among its own community, further hurting its credibility. > > ​ > > **IT'S SCALABILITY COMES AT A COST** > > Bigger blocks have certain [disadvantages](https://www.sfox.com/blog/is-bigger-better-how-to-evaluate-bitcoin-cash-based-on-block-size/). Running nodes when the blocks are big requires more resources. Also, the commissions from transaction fees are lower, which makes mining the coin less appealing. This might result in nodes being manageable only by big, private companies, making BCH even more centralized. > > ​ > > **ITS MAIN ADVANTAGE ISN’T UTILIZED…** > > Although BCH’s blocks can handle up to 32MB of data, [they have not reached even 2MB since they were introduced in 2018](https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc-bch.html#3y). What's more, their average size is currently much lower than that of Bitcoin’s blocks. > > Taking into consideration the point above about the disadvantages of bigger blocks, it makes you wonder why BCH would push for such big blocks when most of the time they don't even use 3% of their capacity. > > ​ > > **… AND EVEN IF IT WAS, THERE'S LIGHTNING NETWORK** > > [SegWit](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/segwit-segregated-witness.asp) allows second layer solutions to be implemented on Bitcoin. One of those solutions is Lightning Network which has become very popular recently after being [adopted by El Salvador](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/lightning-network-bitcoin-usage-adoption-el-salvador) and [Twitter](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/118450/twitter-rolls-out-bitcoin-tipping-for-ios-users-via-lightning-looks-to-nfts-for-the-future). > > Lightning Network effectively eliminates the main advantage of Bitcoin Cash by allowing faster and cheaper transactions with bitcoins. Even if BCH fully utilized its 32MB blocks, it wouldn't be able to compete with Lightening Network. > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ > > **SUMMARY** > > Bitcoin Cash is a much worse store of value than Bitcoin and now it is also losing the electronic cash narrative, since the growing adoption of [Lightning Network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network) makes Bitcoin a much cheaper and faster payment option. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin_Cash) to find submissions for other topics.

apokerplayer123

Oh boy. Another BSV loser

Zealousideal_Set_333

You're so wrong -- BSV is a top-tier investment. It's the premier destitution destination, complete with a renowned wealth reduction plan. Truly the gold standard!

nullc

Oh sure that's easy. BSV is operated by a number of court adjudicated scammers, and they used their control over the system to engineer a backdoor into it: Unlike Satoshi's Bitcoin and practically every other cryptocurrency, BSV allows miners to unilaterally take whatever coins they want to take. This is pretty close to defeating any point for it to exist at all: if there are parties all the users are willing to trust completely, you could dispense with the inefficient linked list blockchain stuff and just have them privately keep a ledger. The confiscation transaction back door is by far not the only technological flaw of BSV, but you just asked for one example.

serious_beach_monk

can you point to the technology of BSV and give me one reason why it's not a strong investment.

mwdeuce

Calvin Ayre backing this clown and going all in on BSV might go down in history as one of the biggest financial blunders a billionaire has ever made.

BigDeezerrr

He launched Bitcoin Satoshi's Vision (BSV), a clone of Bitcoin, to scam people. He thought he could surpass actual Bitcoin if people thought he was Satoshi. He also wanted a court ordered change to the Bitcoin Core codebase to unlock Satoshi's coins for himself. Why go into court and claim such provable lies? He's an idiot.

moonst1

/r/bitcoincashsv - they chose the dumbest name possible /r/bsv is the best BSV sub, because they discuss all the frauds and shenanigans surrounding this shitcoin

NewOCLibraryReddit

What is the difference in BTC and BSV? Isn't one a fork or something?

nullc

Wright brought numerous lawsuits and made threats of lawsuits connected to his claim of being Satoshi. 1. Sued a school teacher and bitcoin fan for defamation for saying he wasn't Satoshi, ruining his career with the cost and imposition of the litigation. 2. Sued a podcaster for defamation for saying Wright wasn't Satoshi, essentially bankrupting the podcaster and causing him to withdraw his substantive defense due to being unable to afford to continue it. (He also filed similar lawsuits against a number of other people, but dropped the ones that looked like they could afford to defend themselves). 3. Sued Bitcoin.org for disrupting the whitepaper in an effort to dox Bitcoin.org's long time operator, resulting in a prohibition against bitcoin.org distributing the authentic whitepaper in the UK, while Wright distributed an inauthentic copy with his name on it there, further convincing people that he was Satoshi. 4. Sued numerous current and former Bitcoin developers, demanding that they author and publish backdoored bitcoin software that would take billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin and assign it to Wright, coins Wright claimed to own but obviously doesn't. The cost and trouble of litigation substantially discouraged involvement in Bitcoin development. 5. Sued varrious former and current Bitcoin developers for violating Wright supposed copyright in the whitepaper, "block file format", and "database rights to the blockchain" for distributing a version of Bitcoin that doesn't comply with Wright's Vision, suggesting he was owned hundreds of billions in damages by them. 6. Sued varrious exchanges like Coinbase and Kraken for "passing off" -- a common law trademark violation, for using Wright's "bitcoin" name in commerce without his permission. 7. Wright's partners in crime brought a class action lawsuit against a number of exchanges-- kraken, shapeshift, binance, for example-- for delisting Wright's shammy BSV cryptocurrency when Wright started litigating against the Bitcoin community. This litigation is still ongoing.

uncapchad

yep, he thought he could get away with it. Taken forever, and countless court cases in various countries to end the delusion but there will always be BSV acolytes who will never stop believing.

raymv1987

Used to be a dude on EthTrader who shamelessly shilled BSV and STRONG

serious_beach_monk

BSV - the original bitcoin, before it was hijacked by BTC (bitcoin core). Proof of work, 21 million capped coins, allows for smart contracts, has the highest TPS and lowest transaction fees. and is currently priced under 50 USD per coin... imagine going back in time and buying BTC for 50 USD per coin... this is your opportunity.

serious_beach_monk

BSV - the original bitcoin, before it was hijacked by BTC (bitcoin core). Proof of work, 21 million capped coins, allows for smart contracts, has the highest TPS and lowest transaction fees. and is currently priced under 50 USD per coin... imagine going back in time and buying BTC for 50 USD per coin... this is your opportunity.

uncapchad

Bitcoin? **BSV** hopefuls who are doomed to wait for all eternity. Just because it's a fork of a fork of Bitcoin, doesn't make it Bitcoin

kyriores13

The fate of Bcash will be similar to that of Bitcoin Shartoshi Vision (ticker:BSV)

DrinkMoreCodeMore

no, BCH is totally worth mentioning. BSV is not.

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Cash Con-Arguments Below is a Bitcoin Cash con-argument written by Blendzi0r. > # What is Bitcoin Cash (BCH)? > > Bitcoin Cash is a [hard fork](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hard-fork.asp) of Bitcoin. It was launched in 2017. [It has 32MB blocks instead of Bitcoin’s 1MB](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/2015/08/21/what-is-the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-and-why-does-it-matter/), so it can handle many more transactions per second (TPS). And that’s the main difference between BTC and BCH, as its goal was to tackle [Bitcoin’s scalability problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem) without the second layer solutions. > > # What are the cons of BCH? > > **IT’S CENTRALIZED** > > BCH “inherited” BTC’s supply distribution from July 2017 when it was launched but the supply held by large addresses [has become more concentrated over time](https://coinmetrics.substack.com/p/coin-metrics-state-of-the-network-2d3) (while BTC is even more decentralized today). > > In 2019, [just two mining pools were able to perform a 51% attack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2019/05/24/bitcoin-cash-miners-undo-attackers-transactions-with-51-attack/). And although it was done for a good cause – to stop an unknown miner from exploiting a bug – it can serve as a prove that BCH was centralized already back then. > > ​ > > **THE NARRATIVE IS ON BITCOIN’S SIDE** > > The value of Bitcoin has gone up more than 2,000% since July 2017 while BCH has stayed below its price from July 2017 most of the time, not to mention its [ATH price of $4,355](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/) (it's 86% down from ATH as of 31.10.2021). > > Also liquidity and real-world usability of Bitcoin Cash [is nowhere near that of Bitcoin](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/#citation-4). It is clear that the great majority of investors chose Bitcoin after the 2017 hard fork and BCH is seen as an inferior copy. > > ​ > > **IT HAD ITS OWN HARD FORKS** > > People cringe at Internet Computer’s name, but for me, Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) takes the cake. It’s a hard fork of Bitcoin Cash that took place in late 2018. It has even larger blocks than BCH – [2GB](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/world-record-2-gigabyte-block-130000498.html). > > In 2020, there was another hard fork that produced two new chains- Bitcoin Cash ABC and Bitcoin Node. This shows that Bitcoin Cash has failed not only against Bitcoin, but had splits among its own community, further hurting its credibility. > > ​ > > **IT'S SCALABILITY COMES AT A COST** > > Bigger blocks have certain [disadvantages](https://www.sfox.com/blog/is-bigger-better-how-to-evaluate-bitcoin-cash-based-on-block-size/). Running nodes when the blocks are big requires more resources. Also, the commissions from transaction fees are lower, which makes mining the coin less appealing. This might result in nodes being manageable only by big, private companies, making BCH even more centralized. > > ​ > > **ITS MAIN ADVANTAGE ISN’T UTILIZED…** > > Although BCH’s blocks can handle up to 32MB of data, [they have not reached even 2MB since they were introduced in 2018](https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc-bch.html#3y). What's more, their average size is currently much lower than that of Bitcoin’s blocks. > > Taking into consideration the point above about the disadvantages of bigger blocks, it makes you wonder why BCH would push for such big blocks when most of the time they don't even use 3% of their capacity. > > ​ > > **… AND EVEN IF IT WAS, THERE'S LIGHTNING NETWORK** > > [SegWit](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/segwit-segregated-witness.asp) allows second layer solutions to be implemented on Bitcoin. One of those solutions is Lightning Network which has become very popular recently after being [adopted by El Salvador](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/lightning-network-bitcoin-usage-adoption-el-salvador) and [Twitter](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/118450/twitter-rolls-out-bitcoin-tipping-for-ios-users-via-lightning-looks-to-nfts-for-the-future). > > Lightning Network effectively eliminates the main advantage of Bitcoin Cash by allowing faster and cheaper transactions with bitcoins. Even if BCH fully utilized its 32MB blocks, it wouldn't be able to compete with Lightening Network. > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ > > **SUMMARY** > > Bitcoin Cash is a much worse store of value than Bitcoin and now it is also losing the electronic cash narrative, since the growing adoption of [Lightning Network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network) makes Bitcoin a much cheaper and faster payment option. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin_Cash) to find submissions for other topics.

uncapchad

I think they get BCH, not faketoshi's BSV.

HSuke

r/bitcoincashSV in shambles From the anti-BSV sub: **How to deal with Craig Wright** [Narcissistic personality disorder](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/9742-narcissistic-personality-disorder) * **You can’t change someone with NPD.** The only person who can change their behavior is themselves. While you may feel frustrated by a loved one’s unwillingness to change, remember that it’s not your fault. You can encourage them to receive care, but they have to want it for this to succeed. * **Stay calm and don’t take things personally.** People with NPD may try to antagonize or draw a reaction, especially when lashing out. Don’t take it personally, and don’t respond in kind. * [**Set healthy boundaries**](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-to-set-boundaries/)**.** People with NPD often consciously or unconsciously try to get what they want by going to others. If you have a loved one with NPD, setting healthy boundaries may be necessary. Make sure you communicate what you’re willing and unwilling to do, and hold fast once you set boundaries. It may be difficult, but giving in to their demands won’t help (and may make things worse). * **Protect yourself**. People with NPD often resort to [gaslighting](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/gaslighting/) (trying to convince you that either you or they said or did something differently) to undermine your boundaries. Keep notes or a journal if you think you’ll need to be certain in the future about what you said or did. They may also lash out (either verbally or physically) out of anger. Be sure to protect your own health and well-being. * **Take care of your own mental health**. People who have loved ones with NPD should consider seeing a mental health professional also. Doing so can help you better work through your own emotions and difficulties surrounding NPD, and better prepare you for how to deal with the effects of this condition in a loved one. * **Don’t ignore warning signs**. People with NPD have a higher risk of dying by suicide. If you suspect a loved one with NPD is withdrawing or considering harming themselves, talk to them directly. Call 911 (or your local emergency services number) immediately if you think they’re in imminent danger.

dontblamemeivotedfor

Do you really think he's smart enough to keep his BSV in self-custody? After all, he did lose all of his BTC keys. :-D

Blockchainauditor

That's 0.1 BSV.

Realistic_Fee_00001

Hashrate allocates according to blockreward. Miners are sellers, blockchains are buyer. Who pays gets the hash. And it ALWAYS finds the balance. At the moment a new miner joined BCH and doubled its hashrate for a while so for the moment BCH has more hash than the ratio would suggest and therefore it is 1.52 times more profitable to mine BTC. In the next days miners will switch to BTC over time until the ratio is 1:1 again. As you can see on the left side of the chart. This is basic stuff not at all complicated. https://fork.lol >Since 15M or so coins didn't exist before 2017 where did those coins come from? They are the same coins people used before 2017. That's how a fork works. Both chains have the same coins but different rules so they coins don't interact and don't count as double spent. If you will all coins before 2017 included BTC+BCH+BSV+ all the other forks.

CointestMod

#Bitcoin Cash Con-Arguments Below is a Bitcoin Cash con-argument written by Blendzi0r. > # What is Bitcoin Cash (BCH)? > > Bitcoin Cash is a [hard fork](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hard-fork.asp) of Bitcoin. It was launched in 2017. [It has 32MB blocks instead of Bitcoin’s 1MB](https://www.coindesk.com/learn/2015/08/21/what-is-the-bitcoin-block-size-debate-and-why-does-it-matter/), so it can handle many more transactions per second (TPS). And that’s the main difference between BTC and BCH, as its goal was to tackle [Bitcoin’s scalability problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem) without the second layer solutions. > > # What are the cons of BCH? > > **IT’S CENTRALIZED** > > BCH “inherited” BTC’s supply distribution from July 2017 when it was launched but the supply held by large addresses [has become more concentrated over time](https://coinmetrics.substack.com/p/coin-metrics-state-of-the-network-2d3) (while BTC is even more decentralized today). > > In 2019, [just two mining pools were able to perform a 51% attack](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2019/05/24/bitcoin-cash-miners-undo-attackers-transactions-with-51-attack/). And although it was done for a good cause – to stop an unknown miner from exploiting a bug – it can serve as a prove that BCH was centralized already back then. > > ​ > > **THE NARRATIVE IS ON BITCOIN’S SIDE** > > The value of Bitcoin has gone up more than 2,000% since July 2017 while BCH has stayed below its price from July 2017 most of the time, not to mention its [ATH price of $4,355](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/) (it's 86% down from ATH as of 31.10.2021). > > Also liquidity and real-world usability of Bitcoin Cash [is nowhere near that of Bitcoin](https://www.investopedia.com/tech/bitcoin-vs-bitcoin-cash-whats-difference/#citation-4). It is clear that the great majority of investors chose Bitcoin after the 2017 hard fork and BCH is seen as an inferior copy. > > ​ > > **IT HAD ITS OWN HARD FORKS** > > People cringe at Internet Computer’s name, but for me, Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV) takes the cake. It’s a hard fork of Bitcoin Cash that took place in late 2018. It has even larger blocks than BCH – [2GB](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/world-record-2-gigabyte-block-130000498.html). > > In 2020, there was another hard fork that produced two new chains- Bitcoin Cash ABC and Bitcoin Node. This shows that Bitcoin Cash has failed not only against Bitcoin, but had splits among its own community, further hurting its credibility. > > ​ > > **IT'S SCALABILITY COMES AT A COST** > > Bigger blocks have certain [disadvantages](https://www.sfox.com/blog/is-bigger-better-how-to-evaluate-bitcoin-cash-based-on-block-size/). Running nodes when the blocks are big requires more resources. Also, the commissions from transaction fees are lower, which makes mining the coin less appealing. This might result in nodes being manageable only by big, private companies, making BCH even more centralized. > > ​ > > **ITS MAIN ADVANTAGE ISN’T UTILIZED…** > > Although BCH’s blocks can handle up to 32MB of data, [they have not reached even 2MB since they were introduced in 2018](https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/size-btc-bch.html#3y). What's more, their average size is currently much lower than that of Bitcoin’s blocks. > > Taking into consideration the point above about the disadvantages of bigger blocks, it makes you wonder why BCH would push for such big blocks when most of the time they don't even use 3% of their capacity. > > ​ > > **… AND EVEN IF IT WAS, THERE'S LIGHTNING NETWORK** > > [SegWit](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/segwit-segregated-witness.asp) allows second layer solutions to be implemented on Bitcoin. One of those solutions is Lightning Network which has become very popular recently after being [adopted by El Salvador](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/lightning-network-bitcoin-usage-adoption-el-salvador) and [Twitter](https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/118450/twitter-rolls-out-bitcoin-tipping-for-ios-users-via-lightning-looks-to-nfts-for-the-future). > > Lightning Network effectively eliminates the main advantage of Bitcoin Cash by allowing faster and cheaper transactions with bitcoins. Even if BCH fully utilized its 32MB blocks, it wouldn't be able to compete with Lightening Network. > > \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ > > **SUMMARY** > > Bitcoin Cash is a much worse store of value than Bitcoin and now it is also losing the electronic cash narrative, since the growing adoption of [Lightning Network](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_Network) makes Bitcoin a much cheaper and faster payment option. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Bitcoin_Cash) to find submissions for other topics.

Dr_Tacopus

No, that’s BSV

DangerHighVoltage111

ROFL ok that's BSV not BCH. 🤦‍♂️😂

DyehuthyTV

Banks also have "electronic cash" to settle transactions among themselves, just because it is called "electronic cash", does not mean that it is an "Exchange Rate Currency" (Dollar, Euro, Yen, etc) As Satoshi say, its a Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash with Fix Supply (Monetary Base) is not a "Exchange Rate Currency" where a few people can control the "Monetary Protocol" (Network) ;) **This is, basically, the difference between BROAD MONEY (Circulating Money) and MONETARY BASE (Circulating Reserves)** >He invented bitcoin so we could buy literal goods online.  **No, here you are wrong, he invented Bitcoin to give us an Alternative, that is Descentralized Monetary Base (Protocol), wich means anyone can have access, incluying bad actors, he Invented Bitcoin to Replace the BANKING SYSTEM (*****That actually expand the Monetary Base, by Fractional Reserves*****), he didnt invented a "Electronic FIAT Version".** **If you believe that Bitcoin can be used as a FIAT Money, you dont understand Bitcoin at all! ;)** >“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that’s required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that’s required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” >— Satoshi Nakamoto" You sound like a BSV Scammer Fan! >I love what bitcoin is today but I’m also completely aware this goes completely against what Nakamoto intended.  I seem to be responding to a Fake Bitcoiner, and I can assure you that there are many, who want more control over the bitcoin network and make changes, and still do not understand the fundamentals of Bitcoin because they are still with a Keynesian mentality (MMT Economics) = More Control & More Spending over the Bitcoin Network. Bitcoin go agaisnt this! If you understand it, of course! If you dont understand it, sorry I dont have time for explain it to you ;) (*Go Study Economics first!*)

fan_of_hakiksexydays

They could make an ETF for any coin they want. But more than likely they are going to stick to just a few. It's a market that mostly follows Bitcoin's moves anyway. And they would only really pick things that have been around and proven to last for at least a few cycle. So go look at anything you see in the top 20 markets caps between 2016-2018, and are still at least in the top 50 market caps today. But haven't had major tech issues (sorry ETC), or major controversy (sorry BSV), or have had core aspects of their projects exposed (sorry BCH, Tron, EOS).

urlewdnood

Usually it seems they believe a “good” coin should be able to stand on its own, not needing outside or adjacent systems to provide the usability and therefore value of the coin. I believe the culprit is Ethereum being a network of coins as base and clones like Litecoin being able to bring TPS up. But most of those who argue this, doesn’t acknowledge that in any system it’s a trade off between security, speed and scalability. BTC chose security as inalienable and scalability second. Since the security aspect as it is kindda impedes greater speed and scalability, those needed to be implemented on L2 and some people believe this weakens rather than strengthens the BTC. BCHers for instance believed that bringing the block size up just a bit would be enough to make btc a complete L1 network. But forgetting that this bigger block reduces security of the network by being more difficult to implement nodes to check the transactions. Less people being able to run nodes means lower growth of the security. So that’s why nobody cares about BSV. Those who believe BTC should beat Visa as a L1 system forget that there’s no single monetary system that runs as a single network or L1. There’s Central Banks and Score Companies and SWIFT and policies. BTC is what is because it is the first and only decentralized network that grew organicaly. All others trying to replicate its size have big glops of almost to certainly centralized nodes on the network.

vattenj

I have the opposite experience, my BSV coins were wrongly sent to MY ADDRESS in Kraken and although lots of promises, they still have not returned them after 2 years!

greensboro_nc

Most likely that BSV is the real bitcoin…lol

pantsoffairline

Can't believe I used to believe him and the bsv crowd. I sold all my BSV and bought $bamk and $nusd through the bamk.fi protocol purely on bitcoin BTC seethe BSV cucks

No_Investigator3369

Ok, but what core devs are going to follow the new E-BTC fork and try to call it Bitcoin? And if you don't have backing from community voices, why wouldn't it be just another BSV look alike shit coin with someone claiming they're the owner?

alive1

Not quite. It will be the incentive of economic reward that will drive Bitcoin towards the longest chain. The miners mining for the shorter chain will simply fall behind and have their blocks invalid by the Bitcoin Core software. It will discard it as invalid without any further discussion - it simply is not valid, because it is the shorter chain. The users of the networks themselves will be "voting" on which rules are valid by validating the blockchain with their own nodes. I know for certain that I will not be validating using the China/RussiaCoin software. To make the shorter, worse, chain valid, it would require people to actively install corrupted node software and actively choose to participate in the worse, shorter, less decentralized blockchain. See: Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Bitcoin Satoshis Vision (BSV). Those are two examples of what you are describing. Both of those coins are essentially worthless to anyone but the small handful of lunatics who still use them.

crimeo

> Which one is the original, to you? Not "to me", OBJECTIVELY the more original side of any fork is obviously the side that came first in time. That's "to the dictionary" not "to me." > These are nothing more than securities/frauds/scams. So you also don't know what the word "Fraud" means, just like you don't know what the word "original" means, gotcha. Fraud requires lying to people. Vitalik never said that Ethereum 2.0 was NOT a fork. He was very clear that it was a fork, and that people had to voluntarily move over to it by consensus mechanism. No lie = no fraud, period. > No. There is only one bitcoin. There are multiple forks of bitcoin. Bitcoin cash is a fork of bitcoin. People COULD if they wanted to, all move over to bitcoin cash and abandon original bitcoin. Yes there's only one *original* one. ... Just like there's only one *original* ethereum. What is your point? Or are you just having fun learning new words? That's cool if so. > BTC > BCASH > BSV... but the same protocols are still in place from day 1. Uh no, bitcoin cash is different than bitcoin. It changed the block size to a different one than bitcoin's. it makes no sense to fork without changing something.

NewOCLibraryReddit

> Yes and the original coin still exists... written in stone. Vitalik cannot change it. > > Which one is the original, to you? > "Convincing people to voluntarily move to a different, second coin" =/= changing jack shit about ethereum 1.0 These are nothing more than securities/frauds/scams. > And again, anyone could do this with bitcoin as well. No. There is only one bitcoin. The protocol has remained the same, just the ticker has changed: BTC > BCASH > BSV... but the same protocols are still in place from day 1.

HSuke

You're right. An actual BSV supporter in the wild. Someone should direct this endangered species to the museum.

gibro94

Like BSV right?

Frogolocalypse

Segwit was the only proposal put forward by Core, and it was put forward because it had the quadratic hashing and malleability fix. It also gave a block size increase. There were a few attacks, but they were never about getting consensus, they were about circumventing it. I made a helpful list: XT (aka fail-train #1) Classic (aka fail-train #2) BU (aka fail-train #3) BCH (aka fail-train #4) 2x (aka fail-train #5) BSV (aka fail-train #6)

Blockchainauditor

If he indeed is SN, he will cry all the way to the bank nonetheless with the BTC he controls, as well as the BCH, BSV, and everything else those original keys control from all of the forks. Some might wonder if he did all of this so the courts would officially say he isn't SN, and then no one would suspect he is, with the wealth his keys control.

Blockchainauditor

Not sure what your goal was for posting this. Honest debate? Practice for an elevator pitch for friends and family? Who do you need to convince that Bitcoin > Gold? And what happens if you do convince one or a thousand people; does that make the price of gold drop? Is there a reason to not invest or use both? Is there a reason you think your list, as it stands, differentiates BTC from its forks, like BCH, BSV, LTC (84M, not 21M)? I may or may not invest in both. Why should I tell anyone if I have Bitcoin? All that does is set me up to be threatened for it. "More portable" - Depends on your definition of portable. You can carry your BIP39 by memorizing it; you can carry an ounce of gold ($2,400) very easily on your person. Sure, it would take 25 lbs of gold for $1M. But ask people on Coinbase or Robin Hood (and you did not state "when you control it in a non-custodial wallet") how portable their funds are when geopolitical or market conditions go hinky. "Far more divisible" - We are talking about a $2 mining fee at the moment per trx (11 sat/VB). So moving anything less than 0.000028 BTC is cost-prohibitive right now, if my math is correct. BCH, Litecoin, BSV are far less costly to transact with, so taking advantage of extra decimal points may make more sense. "Absolutely scarce" - so far this and the others before are likewise true for BCH, BSV, and a ton of other forks. You didn't mention decentralized, which some people say is the issue with the others and the power of Wright et al. And "absolutely" in this world is a bit dangerous, as the developers can and have made changes before. "Superior security and storage" - Steve Wozniak, Mark Cuban. A few messages before and after yours. People are having their Bitcoin and other crypto taken from them through social engineering, problems with wallets, problems with exchanges, ALL THE TIME. And with the "portability", all I need is a good way to threaten you, and I can get your crypto. Quantum computing threatens. You need to go to where my gold is (if I have any) to take it away from me. Is it in my apartment? Is it in a safe deposit box in my bank. Do I have any in the first place? And people estimate that 20-30% of BTC will never be accessed as people have lost the keys. As current holders cross the crypto rainbow bridge, more will be lost or go to the wrong people as people don't know how to reliably pass along their keys to the kingdom to their heirs. That's a lot of lost wealth. "Instant global liquidity" - "Instant" isn't a word I would use, whether relying on a 10 minute average block time or other slow downs. Litecoin, BCH, BSV ... even Doge ... are quicker, aren't they? "100% auditable with transparency and verifiability" - Well, yes and no. Lightning and other L2 mean the details aren't on the BTC blockchain. Activity on exchanges isn't detailed on the blockchain.

pop-1988

People do not. Only Wright did, as part of a scheme to profit * claim to be the inventor of Bitcoin * make a chain fork (BSV) * claim BSV is the real Bitcoin * harness the legal system to shut down Bitcoin and get rich from BSV

Pilgrim088

To be fair, contrary to what people have said, he does actually have a [PHd in computer science](https://researchoutput.csu.edu.au/en/publications/the-quantification-of-information-systems-risk-a-look-at-quantita-3), so when people lie about that type of stuff it only gives the BSV cult more ammunition. And as far as I have heard, you don't even have an undergraduate degree at all. So not sure why you would be the one to decide who is a computer scientist.

HSuke

Would work with BSV / Craig Wright too

MaximalMining

Rookie numbers. BSV Terranode incoming.

Economy_Document_820

It’s not good to have a precedent of increased block size. Let’s say we increased it not much. Say we 2x’ed. It means hard-fork. Now we have two not-so-much different bitcoin network. AND we have a precedent of increased blocksize. That’s a problem. In can be exploited to create further networks and breed confusion. It’s potential attack vector. If we increase substantially, we could sacrifice centralization. And create next BSV. Looking for a “sweet spot” sounds very unlikely and again, what would be the “rule” for further increases of block sizes. Or every next time it’s gonna be huge discussion with hardfork and doubling my moneys?) I vote against any blocksize increase with my nodes

grndslm

Makes zero sense.  Increasing blocksize by 100x would lead to a BSV type situation where each full node needs a 20 TB drive to make it into the end of this year, meaning that only ~10 nodes exist over the entire globe. 4 MB every 10 min is enough for a global settlement layer.  Outer layers (such as LN and others) can handle more Txs... also thru decentralized means.  Every Tx in the world cannot fit into *one* decentralized PoW system.  But with multiple layers of decentralized systems... yes, all Txs can be incorporated into such a design. When everybody in Africa has a phone with 500 TB of storage (20 years away?).... perhaps we could double the blocksize then??  But would we really need to???

Halo22B

All of the TXs are recorded on the blockchain forever. Only you would have sent BTC to this address on purpose. Sure someone else could have sent BTC there but only by accident. You've already demonstrated you misremembered in one instance, very probable you have misremembered other instances. Logically you created the paper address with X amount if BTC. You then (correctly) wrote that valuable information down. Later you made other transfers to that address but recorded them how, where, did you even bother? As for forks, you need to create the identical wallet on both BCH and BSV chains,. You will then see the same amount of "coin" for each of these forks. I would suggest you exchange (sell) them for real BTC, but you do you. Congrats and good luck.

sweetsimplesauce

BSV is Craig Wright's centralized shitcoin that has less than 20 nodes, almost no hashrate and zero adoption. Go browse r/bsv and https://craigwright.online/ for a bit to learn more.

BUY___BITCOIN

What is BSV? Sounds like a very shitcoin

vattenj

That is better than Kraken, 3 years still waiting in my case. I have some replay-attacked BSV sending to MY OWN address in Kraken, because they delisted BSV, they have no means to get it back, although keep promising

fatebound

Bitcoin maxis are what made bitcoin what it is today. Don't see how you can be salty about it unless you are/were are BCH/BSV shill

Sharlach

Who are you even talking about, Roger Ver? Craig Wright went on to BSV and has nothing to do with BCH.

16x98

Scientology have their own token named BSV

Themistokles42

Monero: no, adaptive block size can be exploited to get same issues as BSV (orphan blocks) Bcash: no, it's a bandaid, if you use their solution for actual relevant scale you get forks like what happened to BSV Litecoin: you talking about layer 2 here? Or just that fees are low? Because they're only low because it isn't used as much as BTC Nano: got DDOSed so many times, every time they say it's fixed and then it happens again Kaspa: yes.

donmulatito

I do not understand what you are saying at all, but definitely sounds like the BSV crowd would be a great fit for you ☺️

No_Investigator3369

So I don't know exactly how to answer that besides starting to put numbers behind the $$$ side of it. But value is something different. Did any of us value Zelle or paypal and the ability to use Ebay when we were just using E-mail back in 1996? According to Statista, global revenues from internet services and advertising are expected to increase from $828 billion in 2023 to $1.05 trillion in 2027. In 2023, global retail e-commerce sales reached an estimated $5.8 trillion, and projections indicate a 39% growth over the coming years, with expectations to surpass $8 trillion by 2027. Personally, I think we'll start to see the marriage of traditional protocols like TCP/IP with blockchain technology. TCP/IP is not going anywhere but you are starting to see the infancy of this as there are a few whitepapers people have put together around these ideas with unfortunately BSV. It's only a matter of time before these ideas are re-introduced using the strongest blockchain protocol. To me, integrating blockchains with TCP/IP allows communications to have financial "skin in the game". At the moment, there's nothing stopping me from sending a shit ton of traffic to your routers to clog up https ports on your web server. And lets say my motive is not a DOS and to clog up your Web facing precense but to slip through a back door of the services you are using on your website. Again.....no cost to me to attempt to send a bunch of "if/then" statements to your "if/then defense box" to attempt to use logic to determine if my actions are nefarious. BSV / TCP/IP paper mentioned. https://www.bsvblockchain.org/news/ipv6-unlocks-the-true-power-of-the-bsv-blockchain Again....not an endorsement at all of BSV just an example of whats possible with blockchains and the protocols that run the internet today.

Steve_at_Reddit

I was goimg to say Bitcoin SV, but thought too many here would wonder wtf is BSV?! Craig Wright = Bitcoin Satoshi Violator

uncapchad

BSV!

Zestyclose_Mine_5618

That's not the "real" reason, it's a contributing reason that works in tandem to the reasons I listed above. Look at BSV for example. It can handle many more transactions but nobody gives a fuck about it or can even run a node to actually use it. If Bitcoin could have unlimited throughput it still wouldn't change the fact that fiat and cryptos cost near zero to create and will find a market cap above 0 bitcoin every single time. Money is very cheap to make, good money is very difficult.

littlecabinone

Oh they mean the BSV halving?

Frogolocalypse

Yeah, that was never going to happen once they lost all of their talent to BSV.