BIP

shleebs

Just because knots uses Core code upstream does NOT mean that that it inherits core's maintainers and rigorous review process. Core maintainers do NOT review knots patches, so it is fair to say that knots has only one maintainer. Anyone who says different is either stupid or malicious. The idea that Luke is somehow a brilliant coder is also total bullshit. He is borderline incompetent and lost his own Bitcoin by storing them on an insecure gentoo server. He attempted a hostile takeover of the transifex site. Also a lot of influencers attribute the UASF to him, but that is wrong. Shaolin Fry proposed the UASF and created the relevant BIP. On top of all this, Luke has consistently hurled baseless accusations at other developers for years and years. One recent example were his accusations over the taproot activation mechanism, which he ended up being completely wrong about. If you ask him though, he's right about everything, and he'll block you if you point any of this out. Don't be a dumb puritanical bitcoiner. Be a smart bircoiner who has followed the development history instead of influencer and podcasters. 

user_name_checks_out

> It’s key derivation so although it’s technically the same thing it’s a hell of a lot easier to explain it this simplistic term. In bitcoin, "key derivation" has a very specific meaning which is different from how you are using the term. [Specification: Key derivation](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032#Specification:_Key_derivation) I think that what you are trying to say is that the seed phrase (a list of words) allows you to derive the private key (a number between zero and 2^256 ). I would say that both of these values are identical, they are just represented in different formats. > You lose the map (mnemonic), you lose the treasure (coin). You changed your analogy. Previously you said > If you buried treasure (private key) What is the treasure in your analogy? The bitcoins? Or the private key? > I’m happy to learn better ELI5 examples? I am not sure that an analogy is called for in this case. I would put it like this: - Make a backup of your seed phrase, and keep it safe. - Your hardware wallet is a signing device. Digital media, including hardware wallets, is susceptible to failure and should not be relied on as a backup.

brtastic

You should study how Bitcoin and hardware wallets actually work under the hood. Hint: BIP39 mnemonic and BIP44 derivation scheme are standardized solutions and hardware wallets don't do anything special if all you want to do is keep coins stored securely. Generating a mnemonic together with a couple addresses is really easy to do with just a couple lines of code and a crypto library. The one I wrote and use is here, you can read its documentation as it contains security hints: [https://metacpan.org/dist/App-Bitcoin-PaperWallet/view/bin/paper-wallet](https://metacpan.org/dist/App-Bitcoin-PaperWallet/view/bin/paper-wallet) it looks something like this after printing, and it is completely compatible with any HD wallet which properly implements BIP39: [https://imgur.com/a/837Oogj](https://imgur.com/a/837Oogj)

Unfair_Wallaby666

I've been using Claude AI to decode words.  It's been a godsend.  I encoded the words using numbers (z,a,q are #1... x,s,w are #2, c,d,e are #3).  If you look at your keyboard and imagine the space bar is a sun with rays sticking out.  So the word "bitcoin" for example would be "7853987".  Problem is I created a lot of noise that is surrounded by cells with words personal to me that are meant to confuse anyone else that might have stolen the file, but its starting to give me a headache even with the help of AI.  The total document has over 150 different BIP39 words and I know there are several that are intentionally noise.

riscten

My preferred way of using Jade is [entirely stateless](https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/20144489592857-Use-Jade-as-a-stateless-signing-device). The device will forget your mnemonic after each power down. Every time you start it up, you'll set up a temporary signer and enter your 12/24 words. This is supremely secure as Jade basically holds no information about your wallet. If you lose it or it gets stolen, there's no way for anyone to retrieve your coins as the data isn't even there. It's also possible to make your own [SeedQR](https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/10426338606873-How-do-I-create-a-SeedQR-from-my-recovery-phrase). You can then point Jade camera's at the SeedQR instead of typing the words. If you do want to keep the mnemonic saved on the device, you'll need to set up a PIN and use the blind oracle. You can also set up [your own blind oracle](https://help.blockstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/12800132096793-Set-up-a-personal-blind-oracle) if you don't trust Blockstream services. But even then, if no blind oracle is available, you can always restore your wallet from the 12/24-words and passphrase, either in stateless mode, or on any other BIP39-compatible wallet (like Trezor). In other words, the blind oracle is only used to access the mnemonic and passphrase saved on the device, it is not tied to the actual Bitcoin wallet. It's as if the Jade was a safe, that you stored your mnemonic and passphrase in that safe, and the PIN+BO acted as the lock for that safe. If you have the mnemonic+passphrase also stored elsewhere, then you can still access your coins.

Prosecutor1313

Why not memorize it? I don’t mean memorize it as the only form for retrieval, but as a redundant method of retrieval? If I travel to different countries and will going thru customs or staying in a hotel, or if someone has to flee their country, the worst thing then would be to be carrying a seed phrase. Though, you could do it coded. You could carry a bible and put a very small dot over letters to spell words with a blank page between each word, or assign words their BIP39 number and dot letters in a way that remark that number. No one is going to notice a small pencil dot within a Bible in which only you know which page the sequence begins on. And you could do that redundantly with a calendar or schedule book as well, in case one were lost. All while keeping a metal seed in a safety deposit box as a final backup to go to.

brtastic

you take a mnemonic, generate the first address of the first account in BIP44 hierarchy and send coins to that address

red98GTSR

What do you mean fill a BIP39 mnemonic with coins?

Unfair_Wallaby666

Thanks! Best response (and most on point so far). I am wondering if AI could look at the hints and figure out the pattern. They've used it to decode ancient languages...so it must be decent at pattern recognition. I'm positive the first few lines are a clue as to how to solve it. I know I used a 2 step process because I used numbers to indicate where to find them in the sequence as well as which number they actually are for the seed phrase. I used dummy words not knowing that there was a set BIP list. For example, I'm pretty sure "password" followed by 12345678 is saying that when there is a sequential number, the highest number is the # of letters in that seed word. The first lines are are as follows: 123456 Password 12345678 qwerty 123456789 12345 1234 111111 \----------------------------------------------------------- 1234567 dragon - BIP39 SEED 123123 baseball abc123 football monkey - BIP39 SEED letmein shadow -BIP39 SEED master - BIP39 SEED 696969 mustang 666666 qwertyuiop

brtastic

I think you meant a hardware wallet. Do you want to only buy a device and not fill it with any btc? Since if you want to also buy btc, I think it would be better to fill a BIP39 mnemonic with coins and carve it on a metal plate. Will be cheaper than a device, so you can buy more btc, and more durable long-term. Unless she already has a metal plate of course.

Zombie4141

Take out all the words that aren’t part of the BIP39 protocol first.

rupsdb

How creating a seed myself and a seed created by hw wallet is different? It must be using BIP39 right?

Fiach_Dubh

Thanks for BIP 324 by the way.

Azzuro-x

Right. Including BIP-360 should be similar when Taproot has been added.

Azzuro-x

XMSS is no longer considered in BIP 360: 0x01 - Key type 0 - secp256k1 0x02 - Key type 1 - FALCON-512 0x04 - Key type 2 - CRYSTALS-Dilithium Level I 0x08 - Key type 3 - SPHINCS+-128s 0x10 - Unused 0x20 - Unused 0x40 - Unused 0x80 - Reserved for if additional key types are added in the future Signing the transactions may require QC compliant hardware.

Coininator

Check if some of the words are on the „BIP 39 word list“. You can use Electrum wallet (from the.org website) to check other algorithms. Don’t share the words with anyone as they could be the key to some cryptos.

Limp-Creme4293

The massive disparity between institutional money and the perceived inaccessibility, to the average person, who knows very little about the technology. Most understand the fundamental idea of Bitcoin, but many do not understand the concept of divisibility. (Broadly, this circles back around to a quasi-BIP 177 discussion) As the disparity between institutional money continues to grows, illiquidity becomes a major concern. Lastly, long-term, I do not care about the price, generalized adoption matters aeons more than institutions, unless we’re all just trying to, “get rich quick,” with no real foundational conviction.

dbvbtm

No seeds back then, mnemonic phrases were only introduced in 2013 with BIP-39.

Which_Swan1682

Dont worry, BIP-360 is coming. Enjoy bitcoin ✌️

rupsdb

# ⚛️ Bitcoin vs. Quantum Computing – A Detailed Look ## 🚨 The Concern The question being asked is valid: *Can quantum computers one day break Bitcoin?* As quantum computing advances, many worry it could: - Derive private keys from public keys (breaking signatures) - Weaken Bitcoin’s cryptographic foundations - Undermine trust in the entire network But let’s break this down with facts and context. --- ## 🔐 Bitcoin's Current Cryptography Stack Bitcoin relies mainly on two cryptographic primitives: ### 1. **ECDSA (Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm)** - Used to sign transactions, proving ownership of BTC. - Private keys sign messages, and public keys verify them. - Based on the difficulty of solving the **elliptic curve discrete logarithm problem**. 🧠 **Quantum Threat**: Shor’s algorithm could break ECDSA by deriving the private key from the public key. However: - Public keys are only exposed once coins are spent. - Addresses (the hash of public keys) offer another layer of protection. ### 2. **SHA-256 (Secure Hash Algorithm)** - Used in mining (proof-of-work) and to generate Bitcoin addresses. - Collision-resistant and preimage-resistant. 🧠 **Quantum Threat**: Grover’s algorithm could reduce its strength from 2^256 to 2^128. Still highly secure, but technically "weakened." --- ## 🛡 What Protects Bitcoin Now? ### ✅ Public Key Hashing - Addresses are `RIPEMD160(SHA256(pubkey))` - Until a transaction is signed and broadcast, only this hash is public. - So even a quantum computer can’t attack what it can’t see. ### ✅ Best Practice: Address Hygiene - Reuse of addresses exposes public keys. - Use new addresses every time. - Use wallets that support BIP32/BIP44 HD address derivation. ### ✅ Upgrade Path: Post-Quantum Cryptography - Bitcoin can adopt new cryptographic schemes. - This would likely happen via a soft or hard fork. - Research already underway into lattice-based cryptography, hash-based signatures (XMSS, SPHINCS+), etc. --- ## 🧠 Strategic Viewpoint ### ❗ If a quantum computer could break Bitcoin: - It could also break **TLS, SSL, banking systems, military encryption, and more.** - Bitcoin would not be the *first* casualty—it would be part of a broader global crisis. - Governments and institutions would *immediately* begin migrating to post-quantum cryptography. ### 🧬 Current State of Quantum Tech - Most powerful quantum computers today (as of 2025) have 100–1,000 qubits. - Breaking Bitcoin requires **millions of stable, error-corrected qubits**. - We are likely **10–20 years away**, based on optimistic projections. --- ## ✅ TL;DR - Quantum computing is a **potential but distant threat** to Bitcoin. - Bitcoin’s design (address hashing, delayed public key exposure) offers **inherent protection**. - The Bitcoin network can and likely will **upgrade cryptographic primitives** if needed. - Practicing **good wallet hygiene** (never reuse addresses) protects you even further. - You don’t need to panic—but staying informed is wise. --- ## 🛠 Want to Prepare? - Use HD wallets like Sparrow, Specter, or BlueWallet with fresh addresses. - Don’t store large amounts in addresses that have been used before. - Follow quantum cryptography research (NIST post-quantum standardization, etc.). - Consider keeping a portion of your BTC offline or in multisig setups. --- ## 📚 Further Reading - [Quantum Threat to Bitcoin – Bitcoin Wiki](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Quantum_computing_and_Bitcoin) - [NIST Post-Quantum Cryptography Project](https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/post-quantum-cryptography) - [Bitcoin Optech – Quantum Resistance Discussion](https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/quantum-resistance/)

Financial_Clue_2534

People can propose changes called Bitcoin Improvement Proposal (BIP) and to vote you need to be a node operator. Thus the importance of running your own node

wkw3

BIP39 isn't the encryption algorithm. It defines mnemonic phrases for private keys. The keys are based on elliptic curve cryptography (ECDSA).

MentalZiggurat

you'd have to figure out which encryption standard was used to create the keys (which wallet you were using back then). I'm in a similar situation but I haven't been able to get the original 2013 version of the APK file to restore my key yet :/ since that was before BIP39 was used

alexcoool

As soon as BIP300/301 is implemented - we are there, man.

No_Fisherman_8651

If you aren’t stuck on ledger, you could use a hardware device that supports BIP85. Which allows you to create deterministic seed phrases from your already existing seed. For example: Master seed (your bitcoin), Account 1: child 1, account 2: future child, etc. Upside: ease of physical seed management (only one, especially If you plan on keeping the seeds in the same location anyway. Allows you to use that seed for spending without wiping your device of yours and resetting the device back and forth. Downside: attack vector higher because it’s all tied to your master seed. You can decide the pros and cons but once I got to my third kid I went with it and it’s much more organized.

5GisG00D4you

Not impossible if you have enough computing power. I have successful recovered BIP-39 wallet, knowing only the seed, but not the passphrase. For sanity, it should be done on an air gapped machine and BTC should be moved to another fresh hardware wallet once recovered. [https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/](https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/)

FrostyCulture3729

BIP39 seed phrase was implemented in 2013. He has to look for something named wallet.dat in his mail or computer

FrostyCulture3729

This is not correct. He bought Bitcoin in 2012. BIP39 seed phrase was implemented in 2013.

Fear_Blind83

2011/12 is pre the introduction of BIP39 seed phrases so he would have either received it to a Bitcoin-QT/Core wallet installed on his desktop and would need the wallet.dat file to be able to access it. Or it's possible he had an account/wallet with Blockchain.info which is now called Blockchain.com which he may still have emails with login details for. Until anyone knows how it was stored, there's not much assistance that can be rendered.

Pasukaru0

Well only makes it worse. Seed also has a specific meaning. The seed phrase (mnemonic) is used to generate the seed: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0039#From_mnemonic_to_seed

disruptioncoin

No other coin will ever have the first mover advantage bitcoin had, and therefore will never have the decentralization and security that bitcoin has. Due to all the competition, none of them can compete without a marketing team behind them, which inherently corrupts any notion of decentralization like bitcoin got from a grass roots slow growth. Even if someone comes up with a better model of decentralization, it would make more sense to integrate it into bitcoin via a BIP and people voting with their nodes and dollars by running and using the version that makes the most sense to them. And with all the money tied up in bitcoin now, it doesn't make sense to make rash decisions about changing the protocol. Any new addition will have to be rolled out very carefully and slowly, because we already have something that works and has worked for a while now, so why risk it? That's what makes bitcoin anti-fragile. Recommended reading: **The Bitcoin Standard** by [Saifedean Ammous](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=76b143e5e02148bc&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS931US931&sxsrf=AE3TifPQ3POPNNYoDuAEEUEfQEFpFuxd5g:1748725223253&q=Saifedean+Ammous&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjvpfeNzc6NAxX_kIkEHakpCA0QkeECKAB6BAgQEAE). And also **The Genesis Book** by Aaron van Wirdum.

na3than

First, stop saying passphrase; to avoid making serious mistakes it helps to use the correct terminology. *Passphrase* has a specific meaning. Your Ledger recovery phrase is not a passphrase. The recovery phrase, or mnemonic sentence, is hashed to create a seed, following the [BIP39](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki) standard. Then, following [BIP32](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki), the seed generates a hierarchy of private and public keys that your wallet uses to find "your" transactions on the blockchain and to sign new transactions. Any wallet that follows the BIP39 and BIP32 standards can use that mnemonic sentence to recover the wallet that the Ledger firmware created for you.

omg_its_dan

1. There is no single wallet that contains all of the purported 1M Satoshi coins. 2. Satoshi’s wallets would not have seed phrases. Seed phrases were added later through a BIP. 3. You’re vastly underestimating the number of possible seed phrases. Even if you could guess a million times a second it would take longer than the remaining age of the universe to guess all combos.

ZedZeroth

Do you know the answer to my question, though? It seems a bit strange for you to suggest that I make a new post on a new subreddit when you could just answer in a sentence or two... I thought nodes only had to implement protocol changes? BIP177 doesn't involve any code changes as far as I'm aware? It's more of a suggestion for wallets and exchanges to use different terminology.

ZedZeroth

I see. So even if there is no suggested change to the protocol itself, each node can signal that they agree with something as vague as an "idea" like this BIP?

MinimalistMindset35

Nodes implement BIPs. If a node doesn’t agree with a BIP it doesn’t have to implement it

MinimalistMindset35

This won’t work and won’t gain any transaction. The longer you’re in Bitcoin the longer you realize that the toxicity and stupidity on Bitcoin X comes from boredom. When Bitcoiners are bored by price action they start focusing on dumb shit like arguing about MSTR/treasury companies/ or going off on Bitcoin devs. Just ignore them. Sats will continue to be used because their is 16 years of precedent. Nodes will not adopt that BIP

SpikeyOps

It’s inevitable. We might not act on it today, but we will in 10 years when btc will be at 500k and every single product in the market will be measured in ‘cents’, it gets weird. The future will be ₿ as the unit. But I don’t care about this BIP. It will be inevitable.

PhantomJaguar

The option of saying \`10,000 BTC\` remains under BIP177, so that complaint doesn't really stand.

SuccessfulRing5425

The bitcoin sub is to BIP 177 as the buttcoin sub is to bitcoin.

CiaranCarroll

This can be done on the client side as part of good UI design. There is no need for a BIP.

BITCOlNS

Dumb BIP dumb post. Fuck changing the terminology. If you can't bring yourself to invest in bitcoin because you can't afford a whole coin then it is what it is. HFSP

AstroRoverToday

I’m shocked at people who don’t take self-custody more seriously. It is required you educate yourself to prevent this sort of event. https://betterhumanz.org/ref/bitcoinsecuritybasics/ It starts with the basics, like master seed phrases, BIP85 Index child seed phrases, Addresses and Private Keys, and also addresses Phishing and scams.

Good_daddy_71

That's because 2.1 quadrillion is a large number for humans' heads to actually wrap around... however..... If you realize this absolute scarcity you'll realize why companies like Strategy are taking your money and buying Bitcoin. Cause regular joes think in legacy btc while the elites think in BIP177 natively in their brains.

SeDistroija

Maybe one mnemonic word is missing? Seed phrases can have a variety of words (3,6,9,12,15,18,21 or 24 -> since BIP39) So could it be that one is missing? If so you can easily crack that. As you said working with that old account could be difficult or is impossible to get access with since it might has been deleted. So your best chance is the seed phrase

JashBeep

>Oh, sorry there is misunderstanding. It’s not binary. Buy one-hot encoding of the 2048 BIP39 words — only one screw per word is used, corresponding to a specific power-of-two position (1, 2, 4, 8, …, 2048). This reply is deeply concerning. It is, in fact, binary. You do in fact use multiple screws per word, though exactly how many is unclear, which is the problem gbitg was trying to raise. You made some kind of mistake in that reply and it makes no sense at all. gbitg pointed out that the BIP39 standard uses 11 bits per word but your device has 12. For a 12 word seed phrase you also need 4 bits for a checksum, not present on your device. So what you have is an implementation that is off-spec. That's especially bad given that the device is reliant on electronics and is not fireproof. If a normal person was trying to do a recovery after a fire, they would not have the software translation to BIP39 words and would have to determine how you implemented your binary encoding. Do you see how problematic that is?

bujna94

Oh, sorry there is misunderstanding. It’s not binary. Buy one-hot encoding of the 2048 BIP39 words — only one screw per word is used, corresponding to a specific power-of-two position (1, 2, 4, 8, …, 2048).

gbitg

Two major problems here: 1 - The seed is generated by a desktop computer (a Python script!) and moved into the device. Consider the seed already compromised. 2 - There is hidden information that it's required to restore the seed. In 10, 20 years time, when the software or the knowledge of such device is long gone, it won't be immediately obvious how to restore the BIP39 words by just looking at the screws.

0verview

This is what I found: They used the standard BIP-44 (P2PKH) path: • Account level: m/44'/0'/0' (this is the “blockchain.info” default)  • First receiving address: m/44'/0'/0'/0/0 (external chain 0, address index 0) 

Normal-Spell5339

Have you tried restoring it in both electrum (accepts both electrum seeds and BIP39) it lets you set the derivation path, hopefully with some research you can figure out the derivation path and get your coins back in your hands

na3than

Yes, you can do that. FWIW, ColdCard firmware includes an implementation of [BIP-85](https://bip85.com/) which not only makes this MUCH faster, easier and less likely to screw up, it also gives you the ability to recreate the "child" seeds at will in case you or the recipient lose the mnemonic.

AromaticQueef

Bitcoin Quantum and BIP 360 are already at odds with each other. You think consensus will be easy? lol just look at OP\_RETURN from the past couple of months

Typical-Green-7352

Oops. Sorry! It's BIP-85.

user_name_checks_out

> Yes it's called BIP-44. It lets you specify an "index" and that creates a complete new wallet. So you can have one seed, with a whole wallet of address, etc. And then say have a whole other wallet of address separately at "index 7" or whatever you like. That is not how BIP44 works.

Typical-Green-7352

Yes it's called BIP-44. It lets you specify an "index" and that creates a complete new wallet. So you can have one seed, with a whole wallet of address, etc. And then say have a whole other wallet of address separately at "index 7" or whatever you like.

deja_vu_1548

Google it, there several methods, depending on the dice you have. You're not generating a public or private key directly, you're rolling to pick the next word from 2048 BIP39 words.

eyeoft

Seed-phrases are preferred to keeping the actual private key because raw keys are prone to copying errors and are virtually impossible to remember. A seed phrase is just a representation of a key in words, using a standard mapping defined by [BIP 39](https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki); you don't need any specific wallet software to generate one. As for addresses, you can actually generate nearly infinite addresses that go to your keypair, and it's recommended that you use a new one for each transaction for privacy reasons. You only need your **public** key to generate addresses, which is not a security risk and can be kept online. So there's really no need to keep addresses offline.

8A8

The OP isn't wrong. /84'/ is not BIP49. BIP49 is indeep /49'/. OP, you can custom set bluewallet to open the derivation path you want, instead of letting it auto-choose. You do this during wallet recovery.

AstroRoverToday

You actually don’t even need one. They just make looking up your private key a little easier. Learn about master seed phrases, BIP85 Index child seed phrases, Addresses and Private Keys. Bitcoin is stored on the blockchain, not in wallets. I was a total newbie when I first started and was helped tremendously by Shayne, over at BetterHumanz https://betterhumanz.org/ref/bitcoinsecuritybasics/ He has some great video courses covering all the basics to get you educated before taking that leap. There are a ton of things to learn! It’s OK to get started on exchanges, but ultimately you want to withdraw it into your own wallet that you fully control, so be sure to understand how to correctly set that up and keep it safe.

user_name_checks_out

Yup. I have never given bitcoin as a gift, but if ever I gifted sats to a nocoiner, I would probably keep a copy of the private key myself, maybe using BIP85.

SmoothGoing

Looks like 1st transaction to the address was in 2016. BIP 173 for bech32 is dated a year later.

Teqtoke

To put others responses into context, here is an AI summary: Great question — and it’s a perfect follow-up to your 2048¹² calculation! A 12-word seed phrase (like those used in Bitcoin and other crypto wallets) is generated using the BIP-39 standard. Each word in the phrase comes from a list of 2048 unique words. So the total number of possible combinations is: 2048^{12} = 2^{132} That’s about: 5.44 \times 10^{39} \text{ possible combinations} But there’s a twist: Not all 12-word combinations are valid. BIP-39 adds a checksum: • A 12-word seed encodes 128 bits of entropy • Plus a 4-bit checksum • Making a total of 132 bits, as you calculated This means: • Out of the 2^{132} theoretical possibilities, • Only 2^{128} are valid (due to the checksum filtering out invalid ones) So the actual number of valid 12-word seeds is: 2^{128} \approx 3.4 \times 10^{38} Bottom line: A 12-word BIP-39 seed phrase has 2^{128} valid combinations — still an astronomically large number. It would take trillions of years for even the fastest computers to guess it by brute force.

Blockchainauditor

There are 2048 different words in the BIP39 list. You have to pick the right 12 words, which could be used more than once, in the right order. That's 2048\^12 or 2\^132, or a whole lot.

astro-the-creator

There are 2048 words in BIP39 word list, that gives roughly 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 possible combinations, number so big you probably can't even say it. Yeah, good luck guessing.

Aussiehash

Passphrase is not the same as 12-24 words BIP39 Mnemonic Seed Phrase

caramida_plutitoare

BIP177 is a waste of time and e way to move attention from the OP\_RETURN debacle

uncapchad

I don't think we should get too fired up about a display change, because that's all it is. Internally nothing changes. The BIP also suggests that people have the option to choose between old and new display. Posting again here for others to understand: * Old display: 0.00010000 bitcoin → New display: ₿10,000 or 10,000 bitcoins or 0.00010000 BTC * Old display: 10.23486 bitcoin → New display: ₿1,023,486,000 or 1,023,486,000 bitcoins or 10.23486 BTC * Old display: 0.345 BTC → New display: No change, or ₿34,500,000 or 34,500,000 bitcoins The unit price of 1 bitcoin will be proportionally reduced to 1/100,000,000 of the unit price of 1 BTC, but the actual value of the asset will remain unchanged. For example, if 1 BTC = $100,000, then under the new definition, 1 bitcoin = $0.001. Yes, we OGs can marvel at the difficulty of mere mortals to understand decimals but if this is something that can help wider adoption then why the heck not? Nothing changes about BTC at all except how it's displayed.

urlewdnood

So in your scenario you either lose it yourself or let a third party lose it for you. This risk will always exist for anything. So what are you valuing most? Having 1 btc or the current dollar value for 1 btc? I don’t know, man. Robinhood has its shadiness as any company. But they are not a bank. And btc is not currency under law. Hence FDIC insurance not securing your btc position, only your dollar balance. Mt. GOX and FTX case are not trying to repay users in btc, but dollar equivalent value AT THE TIME of the crimes. Consider the prices for each year. If you cold storage it, you really will only have you to blame and praise for any outcome. But consider also that your btc is NOT ON THE “USB STICK”. It’s in your private address in the BTC network blockchain. You can lose your hardware wallet and still have access to your address. Hence “not your keys, not your coins”. The true thing to be kept secure is your address, usually derivable from a 12 or 24 BIP39 seed words. And this could be done in several strategies, including having multiple copies of the words. Which amplify points of attack while diminishing the risk of a single point of failure. The hardware wallet does one job only: store the complete cryptographic form of the private keys which derive your unique address on the blockchain, in a way that can sign your transactions without those keys ever being seen online. Hot wallets are hot because those keys can be seen online and this is a point of failure. I don’t know if I can convince you to do anything, but you should understand more about what all this is. What is money. What is BTC/btc/xtc. What is cryptocurrency. What is blockchain. What is securities. What is FDIC. What is a hard/cold and soft/warm wallet. What does a company like Robinhood wins by holding your btc, an asset which does not yeld interest. What do you want from all of this.

Thanis_in_Eve

Yes, a proposal to change the protocol. No one needs to 'watch' the video because if they use the term BIP to reference a non-protocol change, they are abusing the term BIP, probably to get more views. If you want to know what to call the smallest unit, and 'sats' doesn't work for you, put the dumbest fucking morons you can find in a room and ask them. Doesn't matter if they don't even know what Bitcoin is. That's your cross reference for the part of society plagued by this non-issue, and what they come up with will likely suffice your needs and be low IQ enough for wide-level adoption. I submit 'Borons' as a name along with a catchy slogan. "I stack Borons, cause I'm a moron, and Sats are confusing."

GeeEyeDoe

Or folks start saying that the supply limit changed or Bitcoin has crashed to zero. I like saying that you can buy fractional Bitcoin much like stock applications are advertising fractional shares. I just see the confusion of this BIP to be more negative than good.

Deacon86

[https://www.theblock.co/learn/271532/what-is-a-bitcoin-improvement-proposal-bip](https://www.theblock.co/learn/271532/what-is-a-bitcoin-improvement-proposal-bip) >A Bitcoin [](https://www.theblock.co/price/248348/bitcoin-btc-usd)Improvement Proposal (BIP) is a design document for introducing features and improvements to the Bitcoin protocol.

grnqrtr

Yes, I watched the video, like I am asking people to do. A BIP is a Bitcoin Improvement Proposal, and can cover a wide variety of proposals, including a change in the language used to discuss bitcoin and not necessarily a protocol change.

grnqrtr

No it doesn't. BIP means "bitcoin improvement proposal." They talk about this in the video if you would watch it.

SatisfactionNearby57

Do… do you know what a BIP is?

Deacon86

"BIP" implies a change to the protocol.

Quantris

IMHO there are some wrong answers here OP. Using a different language creates a different wallet (you can just play around with a new seed on the ian coleman tool to see that). Electrum supports importing such phrases, in fact, it has apparently implemented importing phrases created from wordlists that it doesn't even know about, which is nice. From some quick glancing around most BIP39 wallets don't do that. It is a UI thing mostly: if the software relies on wordlist it can try to verify that you input a valid phrase. But most only know the English words and just won't let you input other ones (even though technically the processing applied to those words will work just fine to recover your wallet as long as you typed them correctly). Ultimately you're "safe" in the sense that BIP39 / BIP32 are well-known standards so there's no reasonable concern about the algorithm to convert your mnemonic into a wallet getting lost. Actually doing it might require some extra work depending on the situation. For example to load your wallet into a Coldcard I think you'd need to convert to xprv using some other tool (Coleman website can do that), and/or use a custom firmware that adds support for alternate wordlists

Quantris

Right, the assignment of word to number is not random. What I'm saying is that (in BIP 39) this mapping is only used to convert random bits into words. NOT the other way around. When you generate a new wallet using BIP 39 + 32, you first generate a bunch of random bits, then convert to a mnemonic phrase using the wordlist, then convert that into what's called a "binary seed", and finally convert that into what's called a "master extended key". BIP 39 describes all those steps except the last, which is covered in BIP 32. So if you have a mnemonic phrase in Portuguese, and convert it based on wordlist index to a mnemonic phrase in English, what you have are mnemonics for two completely different wallets. They are linked in the sense that both are based on the same original random bits but that is somewhat irrelevant / useless

Quantris

Mnemonics are used to map random bits to words, not the other way around. After that the words are hashed to get a binary seed (BIP 39). If you use a different language you'll get a different seed at this step. The seed can then be hashed further to get an extended private key (BIP 32).

Sifl-and-Olly

I dont know if I'd I'd put *that* much of a negative spin on it. I believe it will loom closer and FORCE a decision about which/BIP and soft fork. Over the past couple years I've been hearing BIPs on this being discussed more and more. One thing to keep in mind is that you and I could add quantum resistance to our cold storage TODAY. The threat is that someone can use a quantum computer to look at 1 or two transactions from a wallet, and derive it's private keys from those transactions... so spinning up a new cold storage wallet that has no spend history would, in theory, protect you from this. And then, when you DO need to spend, repeat the process afterward. Annoying? Yeah, but kind of cool too.

fridofisch

Step 1. Buy 100 dollar worth of btc e.g. on Kraken Step 2. Transfer it to a wallet Step 3. Write down the Mnemonic-Phrase and how it is generated (e.g. BIP 39) Step 4. Put on one side the public key and on the other side the phrase (best if its hidden)

MiguelLancaster

Passphrase is sometimes referred to as a 13th or 25th "word" in the seed mnemonic It's not a BIP39 word like the rest of your seed phrase, it can be whatever you want it to be. It could be another 24 words if you wanted, but that's insane Something like "P@$sw0rd1#" or "this is my main wallet" (not secure examples) It generates a brand new wallet per passphrase that is completely independent, but still derivative, of your seed mnemonic. You can have as many as you want, but having only the 12/24 word seed mnemonic is useless without the passphrase

CryingRipperTear

Satoshi, every single person who's written an accepted BIP, Saylor, the Fed printing machine, and Cramer whenever he says bitcoin will go to zero

never_safe_for_life

Flesh is weaker than titanium. Get a burn and its gone. If somebody knows you have it on you, they can kidnap you and easily take it. Titanium can be stored in a safe or buried. It can survive a fire. Seed phrases follow the BIP-39 standard. They are not tied to any wallet manufacturer and are recoverable into any wallet software.

Red-Oak-Tree

I'm the same. I originally was scared of my key being guessed, but after reading more, I bevan satisfied that it's not possible..not in the next million years anyway. However, I started thinking about how practical storing private keys on a piece of paper is even if I reverse the words and replace every 3rd word with the word after it in the BIP 39 phrase list. If something happened to me, how would my family get the funds? Storing on an exchange that my family can also download and speak to customer services is much more sensible for continuity of use by non technical people.

riscten

Wallet work under the BIP39 deterministic wallet standard. What that means is that one mnemonic will be derived into a near-infinity of private keys and public addresses pairs. Every time you receive to an address, the software will pick the next one to receive coins. So you basically have address 1, 2 , 3 , ..., n When you import your mnemonic to a new wallet, it scans down addresses to find any balances. Implementations differ, but in general, it'll check the first 50-100 addresses, and if it finds any balance towards the end of the range, it'll scan another 50-100, basically trying to find everything you have without scanning all addresses, which would take a while. With most wallets there's a way to "deep scan" in case you have a lot of empty gaps between your used addresses..

TheGreatMuffin

> If you know it’s the last one (ie. you know the first 11 words), you just have to generate the last word and append : this means 2048 seed phrases based on the 2048 words of the BIP39 standard. The last word is a checksum in a BIP39 phrase, so there is a very small number of valid 12th words, if the previous 11 words are correct. So given 11 correct words, I believe it's only 4 or 12 words that can be a valid 12th word. I don't know if there's any trustworthy tool that gives out the valid checksums/words, as you'd need to enter your 11 words into it, and I'd be very sceptical of such tools.

0x_Bonanza

If you know it’s the last one (ie. you know the first 11 words), you just have to generate the last word and append : this means 2048 seed phrases based on the 2048 words of the BIP39 standard. You can then use some automation tool to check the balance of the account. If it’s higher than 0, I guess you found your address.

RefrigeratorLow1259

The software that runs Bitcoin Core nodes can be changed by developers with the implementation by the nodes. Any person can submit a BIP.. A small percentage of nodes run the alternative Bitcoin Knots software ( about 6%) are maintaining the 80 byte limit, so that percentage might rise if nodes switch software by disagreeing with the elimination of the OP_RETURN limit

TheHerosReturn2020

I got the CC Mk 4 recently as my first cold storage setup. I really love it. Some people argue it is a little to advanced for a first cold wallet but I have had zero issues and have started using some of the more advanced features with relative ease. I decided I preferred it to the Q for the price difference, the relatively equal technical features, and (most importantly) the size difference. I would highly recommend it. Just watch some youtube videos, practice setting up a few wallets with the various features (I like BIP 84 and passphrase), and then delete and recover the whole setup to prove you can. Only then move your funds over. It really is not that hard and I think it is the best value and feature set.

Aussiehash

Much of your workflow issues are because you are using different desktop coordinator wallets. SparrowWallet uses HWI, whereas Electrum supply a library of plugins for hardware wallets, but when a new hardware wallet or standard comes along it is up to the developer to write or update their own plugin. With SparrowWallet and airgapped multisig those teething problems go away, your hardware wallet is only attached to power, it is *never* connected to the PC. You create the multisig quorum in Sparrow, each co-signing hardware wallet exports the XPUB/descriptors to Sparrow via QR code. SparrowWallet then creates a wallet skeleton which you must import back into each cosigner (it is saved on device in the case of Coldcard, Passport, Jade, Keystone). Then whenever you want to create and sign a spend transaction in SparrowWallet, your transaction signing from desktop, to hardware wallet, back to desktop is over airgap via animated QR codes and camera (I don't use Bluetooth or MicroSD) I re-created my quorum from the cosigners in Electrum and Specter to reassure myself that it is possible, I have no intention of using the others unless I have to. The BIP39 standard is not going anywhere, even with Taproot, MuSig, etc.

StrepselFlyer

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree Seedsigner looks very cool. I probably will go for Coldcard / Jade + Sparrow Software wallet. 3 hardware wallets seems kind of insane over dependence on proprietary hardware IMO, having to find places to store these things, lug them around when travelling, keep firmware up to date + learn different protocols etc. 1 HW + 1 SW for signing is your man IMO I think. But...how portable is the BIP 39 and other standards really ? That is the question. It seems like work in progress to me because the hardware is such an integral part of the wallet creation and signing process. For example I save a PSBT transaction from Sparrow and Electrum just chokes trying to read it. It's not clear to me whether the original hardware wallet should be considered critical to recovery or if the wallet can be reconstructed in a software client using the seedwords and derivation path.

Aussiehash

My objective is multivendor open source airgapped multisig, so using a desktop wallet as a cosigner is not on my radar Having said that Electrum's developer has never been a fan of BIP39, so you might not be able to use Electrum as a BIP39 wallet (they have their own mnemonic seed system), but SparrowWallet fully supports BIP39. My recommendation is take a look at Seedsigner as one of your cosigners, with a PiZero 1.3 (no wifi or Bluetooth). It is completely stateless, you boot up SeedsignerOS, remove the MicroSD, and do all key generation and signing airgapped. When you remove the power there is no record. That does mean that you do need to imput your mnemonic seed words every session, but that is a deliberate feature by design.

Toesy93

Hello people, I'm looking for some advice if it's known please. This is not ledger related, but seed phrase related. On a casper wallet. I have always been so careful with noting down my seed phrase, but I messed up last week setting up a casper wallet. It's a 24 word seed and I have missed one word from it. I'm 99% sure I know which number word it is in the sequence. I'm currently working through the 2048 words in the BIP39 directory. As the btcrecover or seed saviour way is doing my head in. I'm not that techy, but will find someone who is if I have to. I will revert to this after If I have no joy working through the directory of words. Does anyone know the answer to this: One of the words I put in, took me to the next stage of account recovery. It showed 5 addresses that I could choose to recover, but none were the address where my casper tokens are. You can click next 5 addresses and it shows another 5, again none are my address. You can keep clicking next 5 addresses and see more, again, none are my address. This seems to just keep going. I'm wondering, will another word in the BIP39 directory, potentially take me to my account where my casper is. Or is the one that let me through to recover, my one? And I just have to keep clicking next 5 until my address shows up with the tokens in. Sorry if this isn't clear. Thank you,

TheGreatMuffin

> This week’s newsletter describes a recently discovered theoretical consensus failure vulnerability and links to a proposal to avoid reuse of BIP32 wallet paths. Also included are our regular sections summarizing a Bitcoin Core PR Review Club meeting, announcing new releases and release candidates, and describing notable code changes to popular Bitcoin infrastructure software.

Grand-Button5819

Yeah, I get that and I agree with the sentiment. I'd probably go about it by instead providing a random number generator and a standard full list of BIP-39 words and allow the user to create their own mnemonic word by word onto paper. Would be tricky to to properly guide them how to pick the last word that's also a checksum for the mnemonic, but a fair RNG would be an easier sell than a full mnemonic generator in the browser. But why would you do that anyway if you can get an established hot wallet or a hardware wallet that both handle this stuff for you and are already credible?

BitcoinAcc

Electrum by default doesn't use the standard BIP39 for the 12 seed words, like most other wallets do. It uses its own standard, with its own word list. Bluewallet recognized the seed words as coming from the Electrum list, which is why it was able to label the wallet.

Genkoji

BIP39 + passphrase basically fulfill the same purpose b

low_contrast_black

Yes. Passphrase is part of the BIP39 spec, so as long as it’s BIP39 compliant, you should be good. As far as an “official” list? Not really. The landscape changes, and there’s also personal preference. If you stick to open-source wallets with air-gapped secure elements you’re generally good. Trezor Safe 3, Trezor Safe 5 and BitBox02 bit only version are a few very reliable wallets that are also quite friendly enough for first-timers. That’s by no means an exhaustive list though.

user_name_checks_out

Yeah, those are variations on the xpub, not the same thing. You want the address that holds the balance. Or you could try creating the wallet three different times in Electrum, once with each of the three likely derivation paths: `m/44'/0'/0'`, `m/49'/0'/0'`, and `m/84'/0'/0'`. See if any of those yields a balance. I note that in [another post](https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1kg6ajr/error_sending_transaction/mqw9yis/) you mentioned that you have a passphrase, and that the wallet is BIP39, you would also have to get both of those things right when recovering the wallet in Electrum.

user_name_checks_out

The first line indicates three different formats for the derlivation path, and I would guess that you want one of those: BIP 44: m/44'/0'/0' (1addresses) BIP 49: m/49'/0'/0' (3addresses) BIP 84: m/84'/0'/0' (bc1qaddresses) In Samourai, the address that holds the balance, does it start with 1, 3, or bc1?