ZKP

Extra_Ad8616

You’re describing how to remove brokers. I’m talking about how financial surveillance works. No matter how small the transactions are, patterns still get flagged if regulators want them to. ZKP2P doesn’t make Venmo invisible.

aminok

You missed my point. What I'm saying is there's no need for large volumes that need to be broken up into a high number of small transactions. When every single person has direct access to whatever they need, the only time large amounts of transfers or large value transfers are needed is when there are brokers in the picture. And with ZKP2P, brokers are not needed. The smart contracts act as the brokers.

aminok

ZKP2P can be made completely anonymous. Venmo is not going to know why you're sending money and it's not going to know that you got crypto in exchange. So for it to try to enforce something like this across tens of millions of users is going to be impossible.

etherenum

What about it? ZKP are an exciting part of blockchain future and zksync is also leading the charge with RWA's

rayQuGR

[Oasis's ](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog)**smart privacy solutions**, powered by TEEs and enhanced with ZKP, MPC, and FHE, are crucial for advancing **DeAI and DeCC**. This synergy positions Oasis as a key enabler in driving robust, privacy-first frameworks for the evolving ASI landscape.

DC600A

Also, Ocean has a long-standing relationship with Oasis for smart privacy solutions where [DeAI](https://oasisprotocol.org/decentralized-ai) & DeCC are boosted by TEEs that can produce robust solutions in combination with ZKP, MPC, FHE, etc. imo, this could be key in a bullish ASI, scope and impact wise.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; BitcoinOS has open-sourced BitSNARK, a zero-knowledge proof (ZKP) verification protocol, enabling zk-SNARKs on Bitcoin's mainnet without altering its core protocol. This development enhances Bitcoin's privacy, scalability, and smart contract capabilities. BitSNARK allows direct verification of zk-SNARK proofs, facilitating decentralized applications and cross-chain functionality. It positions Bitcoin as a complete smart contract platform, offering interoperability and privacy-preserving smart contracts without requiring a soft fork. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

Grant-ThreeProtocol

It made sense! Through ZKP technology we were able to create ZKi3s. These decentralised IDs allow for people to build an on-chain reputation without the need for KYC. That means if they're unable to access traditional IDs or a centralised bank account they can still access digital commerce. ZKP technology allows our users to create a genuinely secure and private on-chain reputation.

Grant-ThreeProtocol

It made sense! Through ZKP technology we were able to create ZKi3s. These decentralised IDs allow for people to build an on-chain reputation without the need for KYC. That means if they're unable to access traditional IDs or a centralised bank account they can still access digital commerce. ZKP technology allows our users to create a genuinely secure and private on-chain reputation.

Grant-ThreeProtocol

Damn! It didn't save my reply here. We're very mindful of technological advances here. No doubt it will progress, that's as sure as death and taxes. What I will say is that our team is full of technophiles who will want the best options for the project. If that eventually means changing away from ZKP to another form of privacy, so be it. Whatever works best for the protocol and our users.

Grant-ThreeProtocol

Hahaha! That's a fair point, we certainly are using a lot of crypto based features and technology in one project. The space loves acronyms though right? In all seriousness though, the ZKP technology is a major element to ensure privacy and security for our users. AI isn't just there for show, it's there to genuinely provide a quicker, more efficient interaction for our users. And RWA is a necessity as we're dealing with real-world commerce and eventually assets. We weren't trying to purposefully stuff buzzwords at all, but I take your point!

CrazyAppel

Interesting facts from 5 minute research into their website and LinkedIn: * Highest form of education under their 4 "managers" is a bachelor in arts and literature (by the founder) * There are 4(!!!) managers (COO, CMO, CBDO, CSO), all of them have the same pseudo-marketing skills judging by their LinkedIn profiles (no schooling though). * There are 3 devs listed on the website, first has no relevant schooling, his only skillset (according to his LinkedIn) is with a ReactJS stack. The second dev linkedin page gives a 404 error and the LinkedIn href on the website for the 3rd dev redirects to the site itself. * There is ONE guy on the team who actually went to University, but only got a bachelor in science (BSc) specializing in computer systems and networking tech, he didn't finish his masters (red flag). This guy is the only real deal, he definitely knows what he is doing. The issue is, he is a "strategic advisor", this means that he is NOT actually working for them, he just "lends" his expertise to them. In the business world, this is a way to get paid a lot for hard work without taking responsibility when shit goes south. He probably knows the team is absolutely braindead, but it's ok cus he is just a strategic advisor, not responsible for actually building stuff, he is just giving advice... He will gets paid regardless if the company goes to shit or not. All of the technical stuff you are might fancy like ZKi3 and AI are actually just renames of existing technologies. ZKi3 is literally just ZKP with a different name. AI is mentioned purely for the VIBEZ, it's used just for the AI buzz and nothing else. Here is a snippet about AI on their litepaper: > All marketplace platforms will use the Three Protocols Neural Network AI model. This model uses the latest alphanumeric AI algorithms to build a real-time updated product, service and real world assets interface for users to interact with. This means that a user will be asked questions by the AI model about what they are looking for, and the model will then give suggestions on what would best suit their situation. Not only is their use-case for AI kinda use-less lmao, a questionnaire-styled shop experience exists since the early 2010's lmfao. Do whatever you want with this information...

noviwu97

> Discover how we're using Zero-Knowledge Proof (ZKP) technologies to create fraud resistant marketplaces. We will discuss our Neural Network AI technology that brings eCommerce and online Real-World Asset (RWA) marketplaces into the AI era. Did you just stuffed up all the crypto buzzwords into a single sentence? 😂

WhichRadio6124

i like the innovative concept that Zero-Knowledge Proof provide in the crypto market but in the future will the privacy provide by ZKP be break due to the advancement of technology?

kirtash93

Thanks a lot for holding this AMA. My question is: Why the team decided to use Zero-Knowledge Proof (ZKP) tech for fraud resistant marketpalces?

Laughingboy14

> Three Protocol uses state-of-the-art Neural Network AI technology to bring eCommerce and online marketplaces into the AI era. > Three Protocols Novel Procurement Matching Neural Network AI (PMNN AI) model utlises a hybrid combination of NN approaches: BERT for user queries, CNNs for product and review images, RNNs for product/service descriptions and reviews, Siamese networks for product and service feature particulars and GNNs for relationships data between products. > The project then develops its own suite of RWA, product, and service marketplaces that use no-KYC ZKP-Snarks for anonymity, rust tri-provable smart contracts for non-custodial payments, and a transactional DAO structure for disputes Can you ELI5 this please? Lots of acronyms, not v beginner friendly.

DearHair4635

So going with 113-139k by 2025. It’s a wide range but if on chain BTC ZKP was actually proved… than… going to see a massive move from ETH—>BTC. It will be interesting to see the WBTC price if its depegs as ETH reduces and liquidity moves from place to place.  BTC is the Boomer Transfer Coin, into crypto. They kept it as simple as they can huh 

call-the-wizards

Lightning trades off scaling with some level of reduced security. A ZKP based system could solve these problems somewhat.

Keith_Kong

ZKP may obsolete Lightning or other current layer 2’s but it does not obsolete the layer 2 concept. In order to get high throughput via anonymous transactions you still need to be combining lots of transactions and into a single on chain transaction (that being a zkp transaction that proves the larger set of layer 2 transactions are valid in combination). There are different trade offs between liquidity channels (Lightning) and ZKP layer 2’s (which can have a variety of technical structures, each with their own centralizing qualities). That said, the end user experience (for one to many retail commerce) on a ZKP layer 2 is much better because it does not require pre-funded liquidity channels. It’s definitely interesting to have both solutions competing.

LexxM3

Traditional Bitcoin transactions are publicly visible on the blockchain, revealing details like the amount and the sender and receiver addresses. This can be a privacy concern for those that don’t want to be tracked. As just an example, ZKP can possibly be used to implement confidential transactions, which hide the amounts being transferred. The proof shows that the sum of the inputs equals the sum of the outputs without revealing the actual amounts. This ensures that no additional bitcoins are created in the transaction, maintaining the integrity of the blockchain, while retaining this element of privacy (hidden transaction amount). This would require the creation of new transaction types directly on the Bitcoin blockchain, rather than relying on a sidechain or another Layer 2 protocol like the Lightning Network.

Tamponathon

Assuming the breakthrough is a true one, it would make the Bitcoin blockchain useful for more than just (primarily) storing wealth. There's a universe where this means that Bitcoin's blockchain can handle the most important privacy/security flaws we currently have in society. Companies store your info for record keeping but keep getting that info stolen by hackers. This can't happen if you can store that personal (say, medical history) on the WAY more secure Bitcoin blockchain. Huge blow to identity theft, thanks to ZKP. Other use case I'm excited for is online voting! We don't do it now for good reason, it's way too easy for hackers to run things amok. ZKP protects online voting too. More on ZKP: Why duplicate the work? Here's a copy/paste from someone else who did a great job writing about this: How Zero-Knowledge Proof Works Zero-Knowledge Proof works by having two parties, the Prover and the Verifier.  The Prover sends a statement to the Verifier without revealing any of the credential contents such as: “I am a citizen of this country” “I am over 18 years old” “I have completed my university degree” “I own this house” The Verifier then uses special mathematical algorithms to validate the statement without ever seeing it. If the statement is proven true, then it can be accepted without compromising any of the associated data. Think of a mathematical algorithm like a recipe in cooking. It's a set of step-by-step instructions that, when followed correctly, gives you a desired result. In this case, instead of a delicious dish, the outcome is the validation of the statement.

dll_crypto

BTC, ETH and possibly coins using ZKP technologies. Also the AI trend will only gain momentum, you can find something from this sector. There will be demand for projects that will be engaged in providing data for AI training.

DazzaVonHabsburg

Bulletproofs are not Zcash tech. Its 2024, bro, zk-SNARKs aren't the only ZKP game in town anymore. >The Bulletproofs technology is a Non-interactive Zero-knowledge (NIZK) proof protocol for general Arithmetic Circuits[def][ac~] with very short proofs (Arguments of Knowledge Systems[def][afs~]) and without requiring a trusted setup. They rely on the Discrete Logarithm[def][dlp~] (DL) assumption and are made non-interactive using the Fiat-Shamir Heuristic[def][fsh~]. The name “Bulletproof” originated from a non-technical summary from one of the original authors of the scheme’s properties: “Short like a bullet with bulletproof security assumptions” .

DazzaVonHabsburg

Full-chain membership proofs are coming next year and ring signatures are history. https://www.getmonero.org/2024/04/27/fcmps.html Once that happens XMR privacy = fully ZKP-based = ZEC loses any advantage it had left.

rayQuGR

[Oasis ](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog)is at the forefront of blockchain privacy, working with Reclaim to develop secure, private digital signatures using TEE and ZKP techniques. These innovations protect user identity and reputation without exposing personal information, helping bridge web2 user data with web3 dApps. This approach is crucial to enhancing data authenticity and preventing incidents like the OKX one.

DC600A

News as such become more and more common reiterating how valuable privacy is in the crypto space. I am hopeful that soon we will have measures in place to not only enhance data authenticity but also help integrate a seamless bridge between web2 user data and web3 dApps. [Oasis and Reclaim](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog/reclaim-integrates-with-sapphire-web3-data-authenticity), using a combination of TEE and ZKP techniques are working together to create "secure, private digital signatures that encapsulate a user’s identity and reputation without compromising the underlying personally identifiable information". This is the future we need to avoid more incidents like the OKX one, imo.

Petarda23

The Three Protocol project aims to revolutionize online marketplaces through decentralization. Here is what I like about it: 1. **Tri-Signature Smart Contracts** 2. **Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO)** 3. **No-KYC ZKP Pseudoanonymity** 4. **Neural Network AI** 5. **Exclusively Crypto-Based** 6. **Scalability** 7. **$THREE is a Governance Token** Three Protocol will create a secure, efficient, and user-friendly platform that respects privacy and fosters financial inclusivity.

rayQuGR

Absolutely, the rise of crypto AI makes privacy crucial. While FHE has limitations, TEEs stand out for their ability to synergize with techniques like ZKP and MPC, offering robust privacy solutions. [Oasis](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog) technologies, with their focus on smart privacy for web3 and AI, are indeed paving the way for the future we've all been anticipating.

MelodicAbrocoma429

Thanks for your thoughts, appreciated. By blockchain I meant smart contracts to manage P2P sales between users, all having economic incentives to act honestly during a sale. SC are running on a chain. I was just suggesting the general idea here, so I kept it global without going into the specifications/details. If that sounds better to you, we use a distributed ledger to process transactions - all while implementing several mechanisms/security layers (e.g. ZKP) to avoid a vital need for trust on the platform. You can check out our latest short research paper here - [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369237685\_An\_Efficient\_and\_Decentralized\_Blockchain-based\_Commercial\_Alternative](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/369237685_An_Efficient_and_Decentralized_Blockchain-based_Commercial_Alternative) Your opinion/input is more than welcome!

DC600A

As crypto AI gains momentum, the need for privacy becomes all-important. FHE is nice but it has its set of limitations keeping it down the pecking order of privacy-preserving techniques. Imo, [TEEs](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog/comparing-zkp-tee-privacy) have a great deal to offer, more so because they can work synergistically with other techniques like ZKP or MPC making robust privacy solutions for the next-gen web3 projects. A look into the [Oasis](https://oasisprotocol.org/) technologies that focus on smart privacy for web3 and AI can be the future we have been all looking forward to.

Strong_Rice_9964

Not all altcoins will have a good run tbh. How to know which will? Look into the ecosystems with the most gains in the past week and search for new narratives. AI gained 27% in the past week, and a growing narrative is FHE which I think may have a similar run as ZKP. Some projects within the narrative include Sight AI and Privasea. This is not financial advice, so please dyor.

only_merit

> Timestamp and secure data to prove ownership of digital assets or intellectual property. Timestamping allows you to prove that a record existed prior certain time. Not sure what you mean by digital assets here and proving their ownership. > Smart Contracts: Platforms like Rootstock (RSK) enable automated, enforceable agreements tied to real-world assets. Smart contracts are available on Bitcoin from the first day. RSK does not really add anything to it in any meaningful way. Especially it can't tie anything to real world assets. > Decentralized Trustless Ledger: Any use case involving a ledger (property ownership, supply chain management, voting system, healthcare records, royalty tracking, etc) can be applied to Bitcoin's decentralized ledger (potentially with intermediate steps such as encryption, ZKP, etc). Traditionally, you needed to trust the entity maintaining the ledger, but with Bitcoin, trust in a central authority is unnecessary. You can't do any of this in any reasonable way just because you have decentralized ledger. These is all nonsense. Let's say you have house on the blockchain. OK, so you lose a private key. Somehow the house in the real world does not reflect that. You can design the house only to be opened by the private key, that leads to losing access to the house if the private key is lost. Also when the private key is copied, do you now have a shared ownership with the thief? Makes no sense. Similarly supply chain management makes no sense.

Rieux_n_Tarrou

* **Digital Ownership Proof**: Timestamp and secure data to prove ownership of digital assets or intellectual property. * **Smart Contracts**: Platforms like Rootstock (RSK) enable automated, enforceable agreements tied to real-world assets. * **Decentralized Trustless Ledger**: Any use case involving a ledger (property ownership, supply chain management, voting system, healthcare records, royalty tracking, etc) can be applied to Bitcoin's decentralized ledger (potentially with intermediate steps such as encryption, ZKP, etc). Traditionally, you needed to trust the entity maintaining the ledger, but with Bitcoin, trust in a central authority is unnecessary. Personally, I think the most important application outside of money is Decentralized Identity. Identity (in the digital sense) is the most valuable dataset that an individual can possess.

T-Shurts

0 downtime. Instant finality. 0 forking. 10000 TPS. It was fathered by the creator of ZKP…

aminok

Copy-pasting a comment I just posted in r/CryptoCurrency: What actually motivated me to write this was my many years of advocacy for Bitcoin. Ethereum is everything we evangelists used to dream of Bitcoin one day being. As for your claim that Ethereum is no longer innovating: this seems a bizarre thing for me to believe. Ethereum recently implemented EIP-4844, which has brought average transaction fees on layer 2 to below $0.01! These are transactions that are fully validated on and secured by Ethereum Mainnet, so the significance of this cannot be overstated. The development happening on Ethereum is so rapid that it can't be kept up with. Coinbase, OKX and Bybit now have Ethereum Layer 2s: Base, Layer X and Mantle, respectively, and Kraken is following suit. Just in the last week: * Worldcoin, which is led by OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, revealed World Chain, a new Ethereum L2 blockchain tailored for human users, prioritizing verified individuals over bots with gas allowances and priority blockspace. Slated to launch later this summer. More details [here](https://twitter.com/worldcoin/status/1780611997396095157). * ZKP2P now supports peer-to-peer swaps of USDC for US dollars, Indian Rupees, and Turkish Lira, fully enforced with cryptography and the Ethereum blockchain on L2 Base. This innovation enables fiat on-ramping without centralized intermediaries. More details [here](https://zkp2p.xyz/). * EigenLayer announces the launch of EigenDA on Mainnet, providing a scalable, secure, and decentralized data availability solution for Ethereum rollups. Full details [here](https://x.com/eigenlayer/status/1777757913718899074).

SPedigrees

He says that the halving *may have been" already priced in. No one knows for sure, but this man's guess is an educated one. Marathon Mining is the largest mining company in the USA (expanding worldwide) and has much to do with the current growth of the Bitcoin network. His other videos are worth a watch as well. This one in particular offers an inside look into the mining community, Bitcoin's history, energy usage, and touches on the new tech ZKP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GChnGgAo_iM

SPedigrees

Zero Knowledge Proof (ZKP) will further solve the problem of exposure of all this personal info. Similar to Bitcoin and sort of evolved from it, this technology uses a blockchain and mathematical equations to prove identity without revealing sensitive information. It can't come soon enough for me!

Ton1206

Yes: Things to Know About Dusk Dusk is a Layer One that prioritizes both privacy and compliance, bringing real-world assets to everyone’s wallet. Dusk is a Layer One blockchain that uses advanced zero-knowledge proof (ZKP) technology to provide privacy on-chain while also complying with necessary regulations, including KYC/AML.  Transactions on Dusk are private, but auditible meaning that no one can see your transactions on-chain or look inside your wallet, but relevant authorities can still perform audits if necessary and we have the tools to perform private KYC procedures as needed (more on that later). This means that Dusk is both private and compliant. We believe that privacy is a human right and also a necessity for meaningful, real-world adoption. Blockchain as it stands offers anonymity, so long as no one has your wallet address you can transact without anyone knowing it’s you, not to mention the fact that so much of crypto is anonymous online too. This works so long as no one can link you to your wallet address. Dusk is a shareholder in NPEX, a stock exchange in The Netherlands, as well as having strong relationships with other similar companies in Europe and beyond.  The team at Dusk are focused on working with financial institutions to not only tokenize their assets but to natively issue assets on-chain. This is a whole new paradigm for finance, and would allow the financial industry to evolve dramatically, increase access to liquidity and capital, and dramatically reduce inefficiencies, taking settlement and reconciliation from days to seconds, as an example. 

mrsinghhh

Curious to know how zero knowledge proofs factor into this? If crypto were to transition to ZKP, we would again need expensive hardware for validation?

lofigamer2

I think you don't know how it works. Of course it's trustless. Read up on how bitcoin scripts work [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script) Adding one more opcode for ZKP verification is trustless the same way signature verification is. It just adds one more way to unlock a deposit.

webs7er

There's also Nightfall, using optimistic rollups and ZKP transactions to do exactly what you're describing. OP, I'd highly recommend reading "Ethereum for Business" by Paul Brody. He has some points that answer your questions.

DC600A

I think a look into Oasis Network is warranted because privacy will be an essential narrative going forward. Its utility is very real as Oasis provides [smart privacy](https://oasisprotocol.org/) for web3 through confidential smart contracts on two levels - L1 where Sapphire runtime is the only confidential EVM in production & L2 where OPL adds a privacy layer to any dApp on any EVM network. Its modular architecture is well-suited for scalability and it focuses on making web3 private when you need it and transparent when it matters. It uses [TEEs](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog/comparing-zkp-tee-privacy) but can be used also as a combination with ZKP or sMPC for robust and flexible privacy implementations. It has already worked on creating the framework for [responsible AI](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog/web3-responsible-ai-by-oasis) and can provide necessary confidentiality tooling to usher in account abstraction which would be a critical component in catching mainstream attention, holding confidence with ease of use, and driving up adoption. Imo, technology and roadmap are important markers to understand the scope and impact of the protocol, however, an [exploration](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog) of the ecosystem will also help understand the viability and desirability of the project.

yoshiwaitup

Their reputation is quite bad. there was a public presale on Tokensoft, as a result -99.99 loss + when new vesting unlock came the didnt even created a bridge to transfer ZKP to native network. idk if youre gonna invest in it be ready to face pretty shitty team...

BackwardsOnADonkey

Good thread, will sadly go over the head of some people that think anything with privacy is about transacting with coins, and miss the forest for the trees. The reason why privacy matters is large in your first point which is to comply with regulation. Web2 and traditional institutions are vary of entering web3 cause of the public nature of blockchain, but ZKP is too binary (and gets too heavy in certain cases, cause it requires additional layers of proof) where as a TEE is far better for customisible privacy and can allow more complex smart contracts to be built, and thus cater to the need for web2. Sadly though we're still in the "muh monero" slash "but tornado cash went down!" phase here. It's not about sending tokens folks, try to get this and if you do, you'll start to see why solving the challenges of blockchain matters in creating more fair world for everyone. Anyway, that little rant aside (cause I always think reddit keeps missing the boat compared to /biz/ due their hubris and lack of understanding the tech and what drives a need for it) there are certain protocols that are getting quite a lot of hype on this. Personally I'm on the TEE boat, and as Chainlink have shown many times, it "just works™" and thus that employ TEEs as well, such as the Oasis Network can offer configurable privacy for web3 that solves these issues without the big bad government coming down with the hammer. If I also understand ephemeral keys right, it can allow certain data to be hidden after X amounts of blocks, which against meets privacy laws.

WingChungGuruKhabib

I think ZKP projects will definitely have their place in the space. But most confidential transactions will eventually be done by TEEs imo.

lebdogan

Scroll ZKP is amazing, very skilled team with bright future. I'm glad they are building using POKT, it's the fastest and most stable RPC node provider.

_Commando_

> For example, let’s say Salma wants to send some cryptocurrency to Kurt. With ZKP, Salma can prove that she owns enough cryptocurrency for the transaction without revealing her account balance or other details. The network can verify that Salma has enough funds and approve the transaction, all without knowing any specific details about Salma’s account. I still don't get how you can prove something with nothing.

FalloutAssasin

ZKP can work for IDs too. Which can help with the FATF mandatory rule of KYCing custodial wallets.

teh_d3ac0n

ZKP is a huge step to privacy

middlemangv

>Burn and Remint,” which allows private transfers by burning and reminting ETH. By burning, individuals send the ETH to an unspendable address “and later build a ZK proof showing that some amount of tokens has been burnt in a transaction in an older block, without revealing the transaction.” The merger of ZKP, in this case, is designed to enhance privacy and security So the new thing is going to be "Burn and remint". I am always cheering for improving privacy in crypto, especially if that cryptocurrency is #2 crypto in the world.

Nuartyeregerv

It's a pretty good project idea that's why it's getting a lot of funding. Railgun is another privacy project that also proposed a compliance solution, the Proof of Innocence", which is a ZKP-based solution that can prove a user is not involved in a fraudulent transaction without compromising privacy.

SammySampson3

Explain how performing a ZKP on a retina on a bunch of third worlders is profitable lmao.

MachaMacMorrigan

> "small" research project . . . Bitcoin, other L1s, Java, DeFi, Privacy, OSINT, ATP, decentralized social networks, and ZKP. Jeepers. Any **one** of the topics you've mentioned is worthy of 2 years study and a PhD thesis. Maybe scale it back a bit, huh? And don't go down the 'environmental' pit of snakes. This whole cesspit is built on unproven assumption upon unproven assumption. And worse, although last year the orthodoxy was one thing, *this* year KPMG and BlackRock say Bitcoin is ESG-friendly and just fine.

fraylovze

With NexeraID any wallet can be private and anonymous and in the case of regulations they can be able to comply with these regulations using ZKP.

Beechbone22

I don't like Worldcoin and despise what it stands for on a fundamental level but let me play the devil's advocate here. AFAIK the actual biometric data isn't recorded or shared, but a ZKP generated from it that proves "unique personhood" is.

xyridfosterlingu9

While Worldcoin claims to be a privacy coin leveraging Zero-Knowledge Proofs, I believe the current demands in the crypto space extend beyond just privacy coins. What we truly need is a comprehensive system that can ensure privacy across all sectors, encompassing DeFi, wallets, and dApps. In my observations, privacy protocols employing similar ZKP technology are actively transforming this vision into a tangible reality.

Giga79

I recommend the recent Bankless episode with Sam Altman. It goes over these points in great detail. I was worried initially, but after watching this episode I'm a lot more confident in the direction this is headed and how it's being handled. Basically if you understand the tech in Worldcoin/WorldID you won't be concerned with the product.. The implications of necessarily having to prove your humanity in >10 years in the face of AI which Sam is spearheading, is a little concerning - but the product itself is pretty sound. I'm not sure how successful a thing can be if it relies on gen pop (and their conspiracies/narratives) 'understanding the tech' when the tech is this novel and includes ZKP. This may be dead in the water unless/until it becomes necessary. Sam aims to make this completely open source and decentralized, so there's that. The alternative is a centralized government-ran system, or just no ability to tell who is human online beyond a certain date which would be disastrous (did China just launch nukes? Who knows anymore!). When deciding governance for AI we absolutely need the ability to discern humanity or AI will run itself without us in mind whatsoever. The tech for WorldID would be stellar for Sybil resistance in crypto - making sure bots don't game every airdrop, to improve our governance too. I'm optimistic. Hopefully not niave. ZK proofs really seem like magic. ZKP will be so common in 5-15 years it's unimaginable where their potential will lead us, (eg, looking into a silver orb to vote lol).

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Zero-Knowledge Proofs (ZKPs) are cryptographic protocols that allow a person to prove the truth of a claim without revealing any supporting information, ensuring privacy. Zk-SNARKs and zk-STARKs are two important developments in this field that enhance privacy in blockchain and digital transactions. Zk-SNARKs prove ownership of specific knowledge without revealing it, while zk-STARKs eliminate the need for a trusted setup and offer scalable privacy-enhancing technology. ZKPs have applications in identity protection, authentication, secure voting, financial transactions, supply chain, and decentralized networks. However, ZKPs also have limitations such as complexity, computational intensity, and the need for a trusted setup. Despite these challenges, ZKP-based technologies continue to develop, offering potential for enhancing privacy and security in digital transactions. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

lipglossxxodl

For privacy solutions, ZKP is the most like tech to offer that balance, this may be related to why privacy protocols particularly for Ethereum network are choosing the tech.

ChainsofCastamere

Zero-knowledge proofs (ZKPs) are cryptographic principles that allow one party to prove to another that they know a specific piece of information without revealing that information itself. Here are some keys about ZKPs from the article: Definition: A zero-knowledge proof is a method by which one party can prove to another party that they know a value 'x', without conveying any information apart from the fact that they know the value 'x'. Origin: The theory behind ZKPs was introduced in 1985 by cryptographers Shafi Goldwasser and Silvio Micali from MIT. They won the Turing Award in 2013 for their contributions to modern cryptography. Practical Use: ZKPs started being practically used with the boom in cryptocurrency and blockchain technology. Blockchain developers sought something that could accomplish what a ZKP could do. Blockchain Application: Bitcoin's blockchain lacks privacy as all transaction details are public. ZKPs can help maintain privacy in blockchain transactions, as demonstrated by a cryptocurrency called Zcash. It uses ZKPs (in the form of zk-SNARKs or Zero-Knowledge Succinct Non-interactive Argument of Knowledge) to allow users to transact privately. Versatility: ZKPs have potential use cases beyond blockchains and digital currencies. They could, for example, be used to verify machine learning models' accuracy or fairness without revealing the model. They could also be used to verify the original sources of digital content, thereby combating disinformation online. Future Applications: Some researchers are exploring the use of ZKPs for digital image verification, helping to maintain the integrity of images and prevent manipulation. This application is particularly relevant in the fight against deepfake technology and misinformation in digital media.

izdigohkz

Arbitrum isn't linked to privacy and doesn't incorporate ZKP of any kind. If you sort after projects that use ZKP, you may visit the Twitter pages of privacy-focused projects such as Railgun, Zcash, and the Secret Network.

Deyssigeg

Most ID solutions use ZKP for operation. A few like ORE ID and Nexera are worth looking at.

DianaDDDM

Two reasons: Decentralization and transparency. Crypto is cool, and making money is cool, but what's cooler is watching the world become more decentralized, fair, and transparent. That to be is the whole transformation from web2 to web3. The last missing piece to solving that problem is privacy. People don't think much about it, but bringing privacy on-chain is both immensely difficult and immensely important. But if you know where to look you can find the projects that are ahead of the pack in this field. Everyone is focused on ZKP, but the real solution is in TEEs. I've said all I can say, the CIA won't allow me to say more.

alanism

I'm not sure. I don't know enough about Worldcoin to use it. But they are implementing Zero-Knowledge Proofs and I think something like this is better than the current day methods for Id (like taking a photo of our passport, or even 2 step auth with SMS). [https://docs.worldcoin.org/advanced/zero-knowledge-proofs](https://docs.worldcoin.org/advanced/zero-knowledge-proofs) >How does World ID use ZKPs? After the orb verifies you are a unique human, your identity commitment is added to a public list of verified humans. Everytime you want to prove you are a unique person, your World app generates a ZKP that proves you know the secret to an identity commitment, without revealing which one. Holistically, World ID ZKPs prove these three things: Membership: "I'm a member of this group". You prove you are a member of the verified identities list. One-shot: "I haven't done this before in this context". This is achieved through nullifiers. Nullifiers are random numbers, unique to each user for each context (i.e. for each action ID). Signal: "I want to include this message". This allows the user to add extra data to the request. It could be a receiver address when claiming an airdrop, or a vote when participating in governance. This mitigates an attack where an attacker could intercept a transaction with a proof and change the vote. Somebody does need to create something like this. I'm not sure who I trust to do this thing though.

lipglossxxodl

There are there are Identity verification platforms for based on ZKP but I never knew there was an NFT based on ZKP.

resornihgp

That is nice then. Have you heard about the anonymous identity verification that uses ZKP and a special type of NFT called mNFTs?

lipglossxxodl

It's a privacy protocol that uses ZKP to provide private ETH transactions that can't be viewed by Etherscan.

resornihgp

What about this? How do they make use of ZKP?

Manitcor

slow by design too, ive explained the encryption and validation portion of the process in slow terms to people, its fun watching the lights turn on. running around doing similar with identity and ZKP of late.

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Venture capital firms have poured billions into the crypto and Web3 sector this year despite an environment of regulatory uncertainty, America’s war on crypto, and a bear market. LayerZero raised $120 million this year from a16z and Sequoia Capital. ZKP secured $50 million in funding at a $1.8 billion valuation with investors, including Polychain Capital. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

resornihgp

What concept do OREID and EverestID use? Does it also use NFTs and verify on a ZKP basis like NexeraID?

coinfeeds-bot

tldr; Zero-Knowledge Rollups (zk-Rollups) are a type of rollup that uses zero-knowledge proof (ZKPs). A ZKP is a cryptographic proof that verifies the transaction data within a rollup is accurate. Rollups bundle transactions in order to improve a blockchain’s throughput while lowering transaction costs at the same time. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*

VicmxD

I think that TEEs versatility have an interesthing approach, to enable privacy over the web 3, I was just reading about what benefits do private smart contracts bring to the table, and in fact can be misundertood as they aren't common and made through ZKP could be costly, but through TEEs thay are cheaper and easier to configure for developers. One of the [benefits for confidential smart contracts](https://oasisprotocol.org/blog/heres-proof-why-confidential-smart-contracts-are-the-future-of-web3) is to be able to make private and secure fair votings, where if not, it is possible to fall into selection biases. Also, other possibilities are to curb Maximum Extractable Value attacks and help bring most web3 gaming mechanics on-chain thanks to privacy preserving confidential smart contracts.

BackwardsOnADonkey

Great post, hopefully it won't get buried. TEEs I believe has a great argument for utility if institutions want to engage further in web3 and take advantage of blockchain technology, but worry about the paradoxical nature of everything being public. So having sensitive information secured by a trusted hardware is going to be the way to go, as ZKP is still a new concept and as you wrote gets heavy since it requires constant proof and the more data that gets handled the more proof is needed.

cryotosensei

Which of these airdrops 1) ZkSync lite, 2) orbiter.finance, 3) Starknet, 4) LayerZero, 5) Scroll_ZKP, 6) Zetachain, 7) Shardeum & 8) Sui are you looking into?

cryotosensei

You may or may not have benefited from the ARB airdrop but don’t forget to check out: 1)ZkSync lite, 2) orbiter.finance, 3) Starknet, 4) LayerZero, 5) Scroll_ZKP, 6) Zetachain, 7) Shardeum and 8) Sui for potential airdrops in the future!

cryotosensei

You may or may not have benefited from the ARB airdrop but don’t forget to check out: 1) ZkSync lite, 2) orbiter.finance, 3) Starknet, 4) LayerZero n 5) Scroll_ZKP for potential airdrops in the future!

Mcgillby

No second one, but there is some other networks that do not have a token yet which others speculate may do a similar airdrop. Off the top of my head I can think of these: Starknet, ZkSync, Scroll ZKP, Layer-Zero, SUI

Mcgillby

Use --> zkSync, Scroll ZKP, Layer Zero

plxmtreee

Yes, I agree. I've been seeing a lot more ZKP threads on my feed top.

swap_catz

Yet. The engineers are talking about ZK proofs heavily because they add security to consensus, and have faster verification speeds by their compression. In 5-10 years architectures of all sidechains will mostly be based on ZKP tech.

AlgoCleanup

Nice to see so many different chains involved. Very happy to see Algorand involved considering Silvio Micali’s work related to ZKP, [Turing Award Profile](https://amturing.acm.org/award_winners/micali_9954407.cfm). Which was coauthored by one of the competition’s judges; Shafi Goldwasser.

0xMisterWolf

You’re not necessarily wrong, but it’s a little more complex. FTX was poisoned very early on, and a huge number of professionals in the space - developers especially - knew it. Unfortunately, human greed won in 99% of those cases and the public took the blow. The “Bystander Effect” is on in full force here. FTX was a manipulative exchange. Here is where you’re 100% right… any single CEX in existence is a manipulative exchange. They all manipulate their balance sheets, hide liabilities (recent Binance audit is a good example) and will ultimately fail without some regulatory savior. This is why many centralized exchanges favor regulation. It allows them to trade paper. Crypto will succeed because it was built for people to own their financial situation entirely. I know that sounds dumb, but that’s the reason it will not fail. Math is just more trustworthy than paper promises. Defi is not just the future for small investors, but the future of finance in a very real way. Governments will have an increasingly difficult time regulating as ZKP Devs roll out exchanges, tokens, and yes… even NFTs, but probably not in the way many here are imagining. This is why so many banks, governments, or even companies are exploring CBDCs. They see the writing on the wall. However, this is likely an experiment that will fail. IMO, it’s a last ditch effort of governments to maintain some sort of control on the financial picture. There are massive questions to be answered though, and I’m a long time developer/economics nerd… not a policy expert or a philosopher. I can’t answer what happened to fiat, precious metals, or even stocks. There is a case to be made for DeFi ruling the financial picture for all of us. DeFi rebalances the world financially. It doesn’t mean we all are equal, but it does mean we all have equal access to financial instruments across time, geopolitical regions, demographics, etc. It will never erase wealth, but it could slowly move that wealth on-chain. I don’t think a single government, corporation, or bank wants this to happen. It would render a HUGE chunk of society’s jobs irrelevant. It would erase centuries of inequality across investment vehicles. It would give opportunities to those that have historically lacked them. It rebalances equal pay, equal opportunity, and give individuals control… as opposed to the alternative. You’re ultimately right, though. This isn’t going to happen easily or tomorrow. Nikolai Mushegian didn’t drown swimming with his phone, wallet, and clothes on. MakerDAO and DAI were technically able to bring about massive change… and now that he’s gone, MakerDAO has essentially lost all credibility and $3B is missing. As a Defi developer, it is painfully obvious what’s happened there. DAI was special for a very unique reason… and now, it’s not. All we can do is ignore the hype, noise, and drama… build what we know will free us all from financial control. 🤷🏻‍♂️

xyridfosterlingu9

ZKPs are revolutionizing the way privacy is approached in the digital world. The excitement around ZKPs is palpable, as more and more privacy-focused projects are adopting ZKP-Snarks technology to enhance the level of protection they offer to their users. This trend highlights the significance of ZKPs in today's increasingly data-driven society and the pressing need for privacy solutions that safeguard personal information.

Schmiegefp

>A lot of new integrations have appeared for real, and I've seen the xPortal in particular... I'm yet to check out on xPortal as I'm anticipating the launch of xMoney in particular amidst all of the products. >with integrations of new farming incentives in the ESDT tokens such as RIDE, ZKP, and MEX generating good APRs and withdrawal thresholds. For the sake of the aforementioned _"good APRs and withdrawal thresholds"_, I'll check if UTK and BHAT is included since you've mentioned that it is available for RIDE and MEX.

Godenincevk

A lot of new integrations have appeared for real, and I've seen the xPortal in particular, with integrations of new farming incentives in the ESDT tokens such as RIDE, ZKP, and MEX generating good APRs and withdrawal thresholds.

willfullhodl

The problem is there exists a lot that ZK math can not do right now. Specifically ZKs run into issues when trying to privately aggregate data from many sources. Sure you can do a confidential transaction, but creating a full ZK-privacy-enabled AMM or lending protocol for example would be extremely difficult. Further more the entire network would likely have to be just that one application breaking the composability that has made DeFi special. With a TEE based network this would be fairly simple and could be deployed with a few modifications to a Uniswap V2 contract or compound smart contract while also enabling the composability that made DeFi work on Ethereum. Additionally ZKs are fairly inflexible. Say for example you want the ability to grant/revoke permission to view confidential transactions (can be simple or complex transactions), how would you do this on a ZK network? Again with TEEs this would be a fairly simple thing to do. Not taking away from ZKPs at all. They are an amazing advancement in cryptographic tech and will propel the Web3 space surely. Both technologies have their use cases, but I think people over estimate what can be done with ZKP in the short term.

Godenincevk

In terms of risky alts, which ones are your gems? It's far simpler to invest in mid-cap and low-cap alts, but not just any alts, but solid ones with strong growth potential, which is why I maintain stashing Azero, Sylo, Qredo, and ZKP. They have a lot of zksnarks technology in them to establish the necessary decentralization in the cryptoverse.

Giga79

The new developments in Zero knowledge tech is very promising. I think it will be possible to integrate BTC on chains like Ethereum *natively* without trust assumptions some day. The bad news is BTC needs to fork for it to be possible. The good news is it has to do this fork anyway to become quantum resistant, so it shouldn't be contentious to anyone - unlike the *war* trying to move it to POS would ignite. You take the BTC protocol and put it inside of a ZK proof, upload the proof onto Ethereum (or onto any off-chain network) to interact with, then upload the new proof back to Bitcoin where the final outputs all play out. It will tear the walls down between blockchains and change how we use them. Ethereum in this case is the computer with Bitcoin acting as the settlement layer. You could imagine someone wants to do this trade: BTC for AB-token, provide liquidity for 1 week, then output to a new BTC address. This will be possible without bridging, be safer than bridging, but will cost a little more than bridging. Your BTC transactions would only show you output 1 BTC into a ZKP address, and the ZKP address output 2 BTC back to a new address a week later. These higher fees will be good for miners and network sustainability, and with added complexity (on-chain scaling for payments via L2, privacy, decentralized/anon ID, data authentication) people shouldn't be upset to pay for it - considering how much some willingly pay to mint an NFT. I don't know what the ideal outcome for BTC is but I don't think it's POS. Its whole *thing* is that it's POW, and the entire mining community is deluded into thinking they set the floor price with their energy costs (people really thought ETH would go to $0 after it went to POS). If it ever happened it would fracture BTC into two, one where mining persisted, and I'm not sure that accomplishes anything but weaken the security and trust(promise) backing BTC. It worked for Ethereum only because POS was the whole plan from the original whitepaper 8 years ago, and anyone who read into what they're buying had a clear idea it was going to happen (eventually). After a few more halvings the POW energy problem will sort itself out anyway unless BTC is millions per coin by then. I don't think POW is inherently bad, but the immense growth BTC's price had in such a short time made POW into an immensely profitable *industry*, and their scale becomes a risk when the rewards go away. If BTC was still only $2K right now none of this would be industrialized or be of concern, and POW could still be achieved from home.. BTC is a failure of its own success. After a few more halvings, *most* of this new industry won't be in profit and will have to find a new money making scheme. Being the most secure network in the world by a wide margin I suppose with 5% as much energy going into it it's still probably more secure than it needs to be. It's something that needs to play out over time, but the outcome is far from certain. I think POS is ideal myself but we already have Ethereum in POS. I think we are all on the same team here despite the infighting, so when the banks and governments inevitably come after *us* we need as many options as possible because none of them are perfect. You could mint $10T and buy up all the stake in Ethereum and brick the network, but you can't mint $10T and buy all the hashrate in POW. You can corrupt POW by threats or bribes as high energy consumers are easy to find, but you won't be able to physically find the people validating in POS. The more solutions we have at one time the more resilliant everything becomes. We just need to work on making it all interoperable with each other next so it's not *every chain for themself* when shit hits the fan.

Anfossios

It is impossible to overstate the significance. The recent events should serve as a reminder to investors of the importance of protecting their privacy. I am certain that I wish to remain anonymous and keep my transactions private. The benefits of privacy outweigh the drawbacks that are frequently discussed. I only use ZKP-enabling protocols for the time being.

BioRobotTch

In 1985 ZKP (Zero Knowledge proofs) were discovered by Shafi Goldwasser, Charles Rackoff, and Silvio Micali (the creator of Algorand). These are the mathmaticical basis behind zk-SNARKs.

Giga79

ELI5. Your room is messy and Mom said she'd give you $5 to clean your room. She leaves you alone for a while and when she comes back the room is clean. With *zero knowledge* that your Dad helped you clean, she still knows the room is spotless so pays you $5 for fulfilling the contract. ELI15. What you're doing is turning the series of events into a math equation, then creating a mathematical proof to prove if the entire thing happened or not. You're 15 now. You trade your friend 5 Pokemon cards for a pair of sunglasses. Then you tell your Mom you traded some old things for sunglasses. Your Mom tells your Dad. When your Dad sees you in them later, he knows you got them from a friend even with zero knowledge of which friend and even zero knowledge of what you traded. You could go as far and say your Dad sees you in them, he also sees you're not in jail, so he knows you got them legally and leaves it at that. In reality 'Mom' is a soulless mathematical algorithm, and 'Dad' is anyone who wants to know if you completed a specific series of events. You can prove to 'Dad' you did XYZ without sharing every detail because 'Dad' can trust 'Mom'. ELI25. Ways it can be used in real life. Sybil resistance. Who are the people, and who are the bots masquerading as people? With ZK-proofs we could upload government issued ID to a trusted third party who generates an anonymized proof of authentication for us. We can then take that proof and use *it* as ID in decentralized applications, to prove we are unique humans without ever sharing details about which human we are. Or we can prove we are human aged 25-39 without sharing more than that, it's up to the user how much knowledge they want to share with anybody asking. Privacy. Does anybody *really* want a fully transparent ledger to take over all of our finances? Uh. With ZK-rollups you can send crypto, play in apps, do anything, then when you're finished (to withdraw to the public layer) you or the rollup generates a proof of all your activity, and that garbled math represents all the necessary information to prove what you've done was accurate. Finance. Does your bank *really* need to know every little thing with what you do with your money if you know you qualify for the loan anyway? With ZKP you can prove you fall within a certain set of criteria without sharing *how* you do, which may become handy in DeFi. Maybe we see decentralized credit scores some day (without knowing your activity, are you an honest or *dishonest* crypto user), that can help either side with risk management and extending out more trust/opportunities. Scalability. Who *enjoys* saying BTC only does 5 transactions per second? With ZKP you can scale off-chain, then upload the much smaller proof on-chain where anyone can check its validity (does A+B+C=0) without knowing what any of it represents. You can't generate a valid ZKP with an invalid series of events (you need to sign all of your transactions) so if one is ever invalid everyone can revert to the previous one and continue to build the next from that, quite simply. Interopability. You can convert say the entire BTC protocol into a ZK proof, and then run that proof on Ethereum or another network to emulate BTC. After you do some actions that can't be done on native BTC, you can generate a new proof and upload it to BTC where all the outputs will take place. Suppose 1 BTC wallet represents a bridge to ETH, and 1 ETH wallet represents the bridge back. With ZKP you can trustlessly prove you deposited crypto into the one side of the bridge, so the other can release funds without any human involvement. You can generate a proof for C+ if you need to input that into a Python app, the limits are endless. ELI50? It's the final step in removing all people from these supposedly trustless networks. People can't be trusted. *Math can* be trusted. This is CRYPTO currency damn it, math money, not slightly fewer middleman money. ZK proofs will be the biggest change we undergo since sliced bread. I'd guess we probably see them mostly outside of blockchain applications in the real-world (which can then essily be made interopable with the crypto-world). They're a really huge milestone that no one was expecting would happen so quickly.

justaguyinhis

As i read it, they will borrow the ZKP technology from ERGO, so it doesn't seem that far away

Layer_4_Solutions

I expect most chains to have private transactions within 5 years. ZKP technology is improving quite fast.

HotAsianTeen

I think he is after identity. Having a digital identity with ZKP or similar on a twitter based item would be quite interesting.

AESTHTK

Zero knowledge proofs are a genuine technology breakthrough, and as large an innovation as blockchain itself. ZKP validity roll-ups are a marvel of engineering that we thought might be a decade away and they’re here now.

MakeItRelevant

Great thread, I'm saving it. I'm also engaged with the Substrate community (Polkadot), Diadata, Chainlink, and Scroll ZKP. zkEVM is a great solution. Polygon seems very promising.

Giga79

>It is , but it won't matter mate. Just a random question, are you new or old in the industry? Because the de-fi 'fever' is typically a newbie (not saying you are one) trait cause it sounds so good and appealing... once you spend 2 , 3 years invested in the industry, its pretty clear that evey mainstream government and big buissness is aiming towards centralisation with crypto aswell, because, well , we can't be left alone financially without being checked by Big Brother. Uh been here since 2013 or 2014. You? I didn't get the memo DeFi was for noobs. Shit my bad. I've been glued to it since DAI came out. The point of Ethereum's roadmap is to remain decentralized and neutral. If a massive entity diverts from that at *any* point that's what slashing is for. It's one of the reasons it went POS, since *good luck* finding (and regulating) my validator now, opposite of POW. The future is ZK which means even more privacy and anonymity. >As we speak, unless you use a Cex there is Literally no way to end up into fiat from crypto. Unless we start using direct crypto payments, which won't happen very soon. Institutional adoption will just make up their own digital tokens ... don't get your hopes to high that Many will end up with use case in the Real World. You must be the noob ha. I buy crypto using fiat without any CEX exclusively. It's a P2P currency, meet some people, do some work. I think Binance even has a P2P section, befriend someone near you then always keep in touch - that's advice that doesn't get said enough but it is really important. You can still mine too. Mine some BTC then use the WBTC bridge to get Ethereum then whatever else you want. There will be some kind of POW done on Rollups in the near future as well. Likely validating their proofs and storing their data. GPUs are ideal for creating proofs, only the work is much less wasteful/intensive than mining. There may even be a Rollup that generates AI art that needs GPUs to run or some novel thing or that uses ETH's interoperablity as a gateway. There are always ways to earn crypto and more every day. People are farming moons these days.. I don't know what you're saying about institutions. The point of ETH being a smart contract blockchain is institutions can make their own tokens, or rollups (a blockchain that exists inside of), or apps, and inherit Ethereum's massive security without bringing ANY of the centralization risk that we'd have using a non smart contract design. ZKproofs are a very incredible cryptographic breakthrough, read up on Zksnarks/Starks if you haven't as they'll deliver amazing complexity in the next few years. In theory you can run an application from your desktop offline for extended periods of time before finally creating a *valid* ZKproof and uploading the ZKP to Ethereum. Your ETH balance would update to reflect the *output* of your computation, but ETH doesn't need any of the input data of the computation on-chain even for a moment. ETH is becoming a security layer for ZKP and I'd guess blockspace won't be used for much else in 5 years. Without ZKP I'd agree things would necessarily become centralized but with ZKP much more becomes possible without sacrificing decentralization (as all balances are kept on the maximally decentralized base layer, and without a valid proof that you've signed nothing can happen to your balance). If your centralized layer doesn't create a ZKP for you (such as going offline or rogue) you're able to yourself using the base layer EVM, otherwise you can revert to your last 'save' and be thankful you didn't just lose all your money from a hack or censorship, like you would by using a sidechain or any centralized solution. We're approaching the junction on the roadmap where users are told ETH blockspace isn't for them anymore other than flipping between rollups. I don't think the next new wave of users will even interact with the base layer at all, and that's okay. >The advantage is for devs and such for pioneering a new tech and a new market , but as far as end game retailers goes , we can't do shit about it :)) , even if we all stake on de-fi pools alone. If you have any specific confusion or issues with Ethereum or its (admittedly confusing) roadmap ask some questions, I could maybe point you in the right direction as a part time dev and researcher myself. I'm not sure I agree that any dev has an advantage though, if they do I haven't seen the mechanism for it. Optimism is designing a way devs get paid per-use of their code which is neat, better than relying on donations or ads or nonsense tokens. Except even nondevs can fork code and market it better or otherwise tweak it in a way that makes it more appealing, so it won't be some exclusive privilege to (finally) make money for code whenever that's implemented. Just a digression but a lot of devs are hobbyists and don't necessarily make a lot of money. The eth protocol is designed to be maximally decentralized and that means everyone capable is staking, everyone making equal decisions, and that means *not* giving an inch of power to institutions or to whales. In fact the risk of running a validator with 3200 ETH is *far* greater than 32 ETH so institutions come at it with a huge disadvantage. Once a CEX is slashed the market will remember why decentralization is rule #1, unfortunate if that has to happen but at least the network will remain secure throughout. Remember protocol changes aren't done using ETH but off-chain and accomplished by nodes with no ETH and client/wallet dev teams with no ETH. It runs off social consensus, so in other words if Binance has a majority of all ETH staked the protocol can agree to slash them and continue on without them. Stakers don't have say in the direction things go, neither does any one developer or even any minority set of teams of stakers or developers. The only thing *all* people ever agree on is security and neutrality. If the network diverts from its intended goals at any point then the project has failed, but no one (even slightly involved) thinks we're trending away at all, and there are many variables to adjust if it starts to happen. If you disagree you need to try and come from *some* of the points made in the last 7 years of research since this wasn't a snap decision, it's been approached from all angles already. While centralization is always a risk it's no worse than before and I'd suggest there's *much* less risk with the implementation of slashing. I don't mean to bicker with you so much. There's just lots of nuance involved if you really want to dig in.

Fahdis

I'm working for our ZKP Protocol with almost instant settlement. Just waiting for the L1 to come out after we are done within a year since we are bound to MiCA and SEC regulations.

tldrthestoryofmylife

This will ultimately only be solved when they start deleting transactions (while maintaining proofs-of-history through some ZKP) as part of Cardano 2025