CEX

SouthJazz1010

My "trading CEX " has not informed my tax authorities about my account, I know that for a fact! I will clam I just lost my keys I use a non-custodial wallet, if they ever asks what I did with the bank deposits I made into "another CEX" because my bank on the other hand could inform the tax authorities. My tax authorities is not going to hire a forensic accountant that's for sure. Maybe they did this in your country.

flu_u_fools

I'd like to get rid of my KUSAMA holdings and Karura and Altair and swap them to eth. Which is the cheapest way? Possibly avoiding CEX

peresruivo

Oh, yeah. The national CEX STILL have that isention 35k max from what I saw.

SufficientNet9227

i still see peoples invest daily into CEX token i tied to warn some but getting downvoted to oblivion yes im looking at you cro sub lol

OpencastWilson

You’re being scammed. No trustworthy wallet charges fees for nothing. Get a different wallet like BlueWallet or Blockstream Green for your BTC. Don’t trade in wallets, use a CEX like Kraken Pro or a DEX like Bisq.

kingofthemarauder

I heard there is a difference between international investments (no isention) and national investments (where the isention still applies), maybe we could use national CEX?

SouthJazz1010

Isn't crypto a dangerous game in general, isn't that what we are for as degenerates? Just joking! Well I just lost my private keys if someone from the tax authorities ask. I had crypto currencies for years now and they never asked, I never sold it for fiat anyway and I don't keeping it on a CEX. I think I have to move to country who doesn't care about taxes in general so much, as long as you pay them something and it's several countries like that. How does it work in Germany, do you pay different crypto taxe rate in each state?

peresruivo

It will be over in 2024. And you are forced to declare to the federals if you buy in CEX. That's another advantage of usings DEX for me: Not having to send the annual report to the federals.

basic_user321

I bet the onchain fees were pretty rough buying through bisq? Went back to buying through a CEX until the fees go down.

Bash_2628

integrating Web3 and digital ownership into hypercasual games makes this project not just accessible but fun! With 2.5M+ web3 wallets activated and a choice of listing CEX like Bitget and the others. it’s fair to say they are leading the Web3 gaming revolution.

_artemisdigital

OP wrote this in English, then translated it to Chinese, and then from Chinese back to English again, using Google Translate, it seems... Anyway, he's saying that people who find low caps on-chain through stuff like dexscreener are earlier than people on CEXs, waiting for a listing to trade. By the time the token is on a CEX, people who found it and traded on a DEX are already up multiple X. He's not wrong, but he just thinks he's some kind of hot shot because he compares himself to boomers using exclusively CEXs lmao. The day OP will use flash loans, delta neutral strategies, arbitrage bots, or do algorithmic event based trading, will be the day OP must be taken seriously. Today is not that day. Oh and regarding utility, OP is just ignorant and wrong, because RWAs are already proving him wrong.

retro_grave

If he used any CEX and they were audited by the IRS, they would know he had up to $X sold through them. Now they know you should have some reported sales. Now they say huh, this guy didn't report any cost basis for those sales. Looks like he has a tax bill on the full face value of the assets he sold. "Dear Degenerate Gambler, please pay the man $Y." Oops now I need to prove to them I only made some mistakes in my tax filing. My cost basis was $Z from 2015, and I also had these losses in year 2021, and uh... shit...

SouthJazz1010

I don't even submit CEX gains, but this makes me think that I only should use DeFi, I'm worried to get CEX account shut down!

diskowmoskow

Good thing is it’s IBC enabled chain*, you can move your CRO and explore whole Cosmos ecosystem, which is kinda fire these days, and few good projects still not on any CEX. *Keplr doing IBC transfers directly from the wallet, which is neat and no bridging fees.

1petrock

Lol cause most of us just commit the tax fraud. I pay taxes on all CEX transactions but no way would I submit anything defi.

SouthJazz1010

US is crazy, thay barely know what crypto currency is here, I'm in a western county, but I never bother to learn the the tax regulations, I just assumed you tax on fiat gains that you receive in your bank account here. Plus I use a non-custodial storage solution, trading back and forward doing all kinds of things in DEX and somethimes in CEX, maybe it's time to at least learn my local tax regulations..

Crypto_Cat_34_32

Even before they nerfed their debit cards the required stake for good rewards made absolutely no sense to me from a risk/reward standpoint. Assuming you're able to and have a good credit score... just get a good credit card that requires no stake and no risk of loss due to theft, fraud, etc. You can take the rewards you get from them to buy more crypto. Different story if you have a lot of crypto and want an easy way to spend it directly without interacting with fiat system I guess. But honestly... what entity do you trust more with your debit balance? A CEX or a bank/credit union? Or use something like the Coinbase card that requires no stake in a very volatile token.

valz_

The thing about CRO or any other CEX coin for me is just the fact that it undermines the whole point of decentralization. Why would you trust a business with the incentives that they have to do right with the blockchain?

CreepyParsnip342

Serious reply: I am there with you, 100% on chain. But I also have many reasons in my mind why majority aren’t. 1) They are afraid, for a reason. It’s like 95% of the tokens launched on Ethereum (which is still the only real chain to trade on chain despite the gas fees, volume = money) are either rugs or simply die within 3 days. 2) the gas fees are going to kill you if you don’t possess sufficient skills for the craft to outcome them in profit. Just today I paid 20$ gas fees to sell 75$ worth of my tokens that were left from my 250$ position that I opened with 35$ gas fees. And it’s normal, and I am happy I at least got to keep that money as I am prepared to loose everything always. 3) People don’t know the game, they loose, they think it’s somehow abnormal or unfair, they don’t know the bots, they don’t know the wild west. I would not suggest anyone who doesn’t have the right mentality to ever go there. But for me it is absolutely the right place. It’s just a different game. Risk vs reward. If one is happy with low risk and reward, CEX is the way, if one wants the Lambo with 2k starting balance, on chain is the only option, imo. But one has to have understanding, clear plan, and be prepared to loose it all many times.

Vivid_Collar7469

Also bought at . 6, ive SCA since and almost breaking even right now. I believe it is all up from here. Cryptocom is the most regulatory compliant CEX and plays the long game. CDC also joined the WEF and is advertised on their site. My non financial advice is to hodl . $1 goal is likely.

Blanketname12

Nothing is 100% safe, this goes with banks too. But Coinbase is one of the better CEX out there, especially since they're willing to fight in court for their business. It shows they have nothing to hide and they want to run a legitimate business. But we'll see how this plays out. In contrast to Kraken that bent the knee and gave the SEC a fat stack of money only to be sued again. I had a feeling they were hiding something.

Nightmare_Tonic

Coinbase really does strike me as the safest CEX. I'm currently trying to decide whether to keep all my crypto there or split it between there and my ledger. The Ledger is just so damn inconvenient but the SOL staking on it is out of this world

yldf

Coinbase isn’t regulated. Audited, perhaps, but not regulated. It’s far from any reasonable notion of safe. It’s less unsafe than most other CEX, though…

yldf

Are you seriously recommending staking (which might be actually lending in that case) a stablecoin at a CEX?

KateR_H0l1day

For me it’s CDC, they seem to me to be the best regulated CEX. They responded well to the Bear market but of course spread is high but you can easily send to DeFi very cheaply.

jps_

This misconstrues the point. The point is CEX (such as Coinbase, Binance, Tether... and yes, Tether is a CEX of USD into USDT...) are operating a business model that effectively uses customer funds to insure business losses. If the business makes a mistake and goes bankrupt, customers end up standing with creditors.

TyroneWallinson

Use a CEX. CDC has it available. Now is the time to buy imo

TyroneWallinson

holy shit. I just checked it’s at over $8. That’s fucked up i shoulda bought some once my CEX listed it

Movykeddd

Oh no, another CEX hyped by this page gets rekt? While binance still rolls at full power? Who would've guess

Crypto_Cat_34_32

Bridging from L1 to L2 will cost you a bit in fees. Ideally you buy something from a CEX that allows you to directly transfer crypto to your L2 of choice, or you transfer USDC/etc. to that chain and then make a DEX trade so you don't have to touch L1 directly at all.

brewcitygymratt

Their advanced trading fees aren’t any worse than other CEX.

gr8ful4

They wanted to open on 30th of November. See how that's going? It's a classic play for an insolvent CEX. Meanwhile moderators of this sub have removed several topics that tried to make the general public aware of what is going on behind the scenes * [HTX is Crypto Exchange of the year 2023 (award) - meanwhile withdrawals are still closed ](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/188ak6z/htx_is_crypto_exchange_of_the_year_2023_award/) * [Justin Sun's "exchanges" HTX and Poloniex are still closed. Will they ever open up again?](https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/186qvso/justin_suns_exchanges_htx_and_poloniex_are_still/)

Ok-Western-5799

No CEX is safe. DEX = SAFU

Django_McFly

>On the other hand, some believe that Bitcoin ETFs are just “watered-down crypto” and a sign the industry is heading in the wrong direction. They are "watered" down but it's only a sign we're heading in the wrong direction if all CEX and DEX shut down, all wallets close up shop, all chains hard fork to only support institutional addresses, etc. Despite what people like to believe, two opposite things can happen at once and the only result is that two opposite things happen at once. It's also a global asset. There are places where everyone eats good and the economy is fine, For them, the only point of crypto is speculation and self-custody is a fun nerd hobby. There are places where people aren't eating fine, annual inflation has been over 10% for the past 25 years and anyone over the age of 21 has lived through the banks seizing assets on a country wide level. For them, self-custody and access to US dollars is the entire point. Speculation is a rich foreigner hobby.

AkingWL

Main difference for ME is the tax benefits of purchasing spot ETFs is that I can hold it in a tax sheltered account. This allows me to save a ton on capital gains. If you buy on a CEX, you run risk of a financial collapse or fraud. IMO if you are uncomfortable with holding your own keys it’s ok holding it in an etf or a reputable CEX like coinbase.

_Commando_

Any crypto that is POS doesn't make it a security. Unless you're talking about CEX coins staked etc then yes, as the CEX is securitng that 1 crypto for another staked. When you unstake you claim the secured crypto back. Regarding your other point about SEC suing Vitalik or Lubin, again.. why? I'm not sure what crystal ball you've got there :D Like this article stating ETH at 28K which I don't agree with but 7k ETH next year is plausible even without a SPOT ETH.

gr8ful4

Just use Monero and live a normal life. No need for anybody to know your net worth. Not the government, no CEX and not your friends.

jps_

FTX depositors are paying a lot of tuition to learn why it's bad news to be in the cheap seats as a creditor. Using CEX where your coins are not held in a legally defensible trust (not someone's contractual statement e.g. "your coins are yours") is perfectly fine. Until it isn't. And then you lose it all.

heavy_infantry

I wouldn't make any swaps on Ethereum. Way too expensive. Wait for the bull market... 150$ fee for 1 transaction haha. You can use L2 solutions. Arbitrum works like a charm. You can easily bridge your funds from Eth mainnet to Arb and then do your thing there. If you are withdrawing your funds from CEX, you don't even need to pay bridge fee. For example, on binance I can withdraw my ETH for 0.4 usd to Arbitrum and do my thing there.

Littlefinger_13

Ethereum is a relatively slow chain, with a big demand behind it. To solve this problem, they have a fee structure model that fluctuates the fees you pay, based on the demand of the time you are trying to use it. So, if there are many people that are trying to make transactions on Ethereum, at a particular moment, the gas fees are high (in the event of a big mint they could go to the hundreds or even thousands of dollars in ETH). In some low-traffic hours (especially in the early morning US hours, and weekends) the fees are lower. When you are trying to swap a coin on the Ethereum chain, you are using a Decentralized Exchange (DEX), which has a small percentage fee (\~0.3%) on your purchase, which varies among DEXes, and a "flat gas fee" which is based -as I said earlier- on how busy is the network at the moment. The last weeks, Ethereum is busy and the fees are high. Especially for smart contract interactions, which are more complex (like a swap) they are really high. You were lucky with the $16 gas fee to be honest. Also, to clarify what you said, when you sell your tokens that you purchased to cash-out, if they have been up in value, you won't pay thousands of dollars in gas fees. As I said, the gas fee, is based on the traffic of the network and the complexity of the transaction. So, the complexity will remain the same (you did and you will do a swap), so the only thing that it will change is the traffic on the Ethereum blockchain. If it is less loaded than now, you will pay a smaller fee than the 16$ you paid now, if it is more loaded, more. So, what you should do? Ethereum blockchain is extremely expensive, especially if you are not doing big transfers or swaps. So, the best way, is to buy your ERC-20 tokens from a Centralized Exchange (CEX) if they offer them (so if you are not buying shitcoin territory tokens), because you will not pay the transaction fee, just the fee that the specific CEX imposes. Big exchanges are relatively cheap, if you trade the coins and tokens in their spot market interface. You should always remind yourself though, that if you want your ERC-20 tokens on your personal wallet (which is good for decentralization) you will pay a relatively big withdrawal fee from a CEX, because... Ethereum. One, other solution, is to leverage some layer-2 on Ethereum, such as Optimism or Arbitrum, and buy your Ethereum tokens using a DEX that supports those networks. But, before starting to experiment with layer-2s and side chains, you should first understand them, and the pros and cons that they have. Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

fainje

ETFs will bring the same problems as scammy CEX like FTX. Trying to manipulate the market. Bitcoin dont need the ETF. But FIAT need the Bitcoin ETF.

neen209

How can you determine that from a small cap coin that is not listed on any reputable CEX like a Coinbase?

dozores

$CONE, its bound to shoot up at some point with a marketcap of 2 million I think and an amazing community behind it. Although its not available in a CEX but its not difficult to swap some matic for it

apkatt

Everyone will have their own list of reasons, but for me personally: * The project is one of very few that adheres to the Bitcoin ethos of decentralization, the biggest point for me. * ADA has been a pretty much consistent top 10 project since launch in 2017. * ADA, BTC, ETH were the only top 10 projects to reach new ATH last cycle (excluding CEX coins) * Mr. H, he is a **net good** for both Cardano and the industry as a whole. The constant anti-CH circle jerk in r/cc was old years ago. * Arguable the best implementation of PoS, and general easy of use.

neverreddit1984

Stories like this will keep the plebs on CEX's and frightened of self custody imho.

AlohaInCrypto

I personally have good experience with such an exchange token as WBT, it aroused a lot of interest among users of the Whitebit exchange and attracted new investors, which at first allowed me to earn several times on this token, and then it became profitable to be its holder. So, I think CEX exchange tokens are quite an interesting tool for profit and more

MemenaSerena

That's bad to hear. investing only in CEX coin is not an option. Obviously there a risk that you will lose funds, but it's mostly same for every altcoin. Golden rule is that you should invest as much as you can afford to lose.

Stashimi

Most price action comes from hype…I’m more of a value investor when it comes to traditional stocks so any crypto I invest in I try and apply some logic and thought. Often traditional metrics are hard to apply. Basic mcap based on total supply is a good starting point for me. Essential to know and fundamental to establishing if it is overvalued. Function of the token. Really depends on what the token is doing. Is it a currency or is it for utility or is it just some shitcoin. An easy one I tend to avoid are governance tokens as I can’t see the valuations that are often attributed to these. Centralised or decentralised is also a big consideration, some tokens that are more ripe for value analysis often are the products of a company or are tied to the success of some real world application. These are essentially centralised, having a real world point of failure or external dependency which will trump any of the tokenomics and often makes it too risky. Earnings. This is a tricky one. In the crypto world the earnings can be a fee share from say a CEX, an interest payment from staking your coins or a sales share/ utility fee share. As noted depends on utility of token. For example Chainlink is a pricing oracle that DeFi applications will pay a fee to use the price feed generated by their protocol. I see this as pretty good use case (this is on my hit list to do some numbers on) Velocity of token. This is also worth considering. If there are billions of tokens and the interaction is seconds then the high velocity means in longer term the supply will always be high and therefore price will not increase (unless there is clear demand use case). Bitcoin is a good example of a low velocity coin, where most of these are essentially locked away, with low supply available at any time. I’ll add some more if I have time.

MaximumStudent1839

You will have a fucking nightmare trying to rationalize a lot of small to large cap with P/E ratios, active addresses, growth, and gas cost. A whole large part of this space shill coins they don’t even use, understand, etc. The best example is trying to understand Link market cap. A whole lot of them don’t even go on chain but park it on some brokerage or CEX. So they don’t contribute to active addresses or whatsoever. And Link’s P/E is so bad…. Lol. Some coins’ valuations simply correlate with the level of retardation/zealotry of their community. It applies broadly to memecoins and some big caps like Link. When it comes to memecoins, you will find it more useful to check their telegram to temperature check their level of retardation. If you get any sense majority of mid curvers, sell the hell out. You need left curvers and some right curvers to get a good mix. Ppl who understand market caps won’t be hodling like Shiba Inu army. This space also has large cap bias. Meaning if you are a large cap, you don’t get easily knocked off, see Cardano. Think I have pissed off enough ppl, lol. Another aspect is repositioning and novelty. A lot of new coins have new and untested narratives. You will see irrational divergence between similarly built stuff, see Aptos vs Sui. Novelty commands a premium. see Celestia as a recent example. When ppl see novelty, they will reposition, given how low liquid the market is, you get pumps. Playing with novelty with DYOR is playing with fire. It is best to have a novelty sharing synergy with existing chains. That way, you can get other ecosystem participants to come and speculate. When they see complementarity, they feel less threaten about their bags in order to support new project. This shit space is primal and ape shit tribal. It is probably because too many have banked 99%+ of their future wealth on their bags so they can’t really think clearly a lot of times. Also, it is important to understand novel fads from novel long term narratives. The former only gets you degen money who flees like rats when the ship starts to sink. The latter can actually build a community.

BenniBoom707

Absolutely. I think FTX going down really hurt that. Other mainstream CEX need to go hard this run to prove to the world that they can be trusted. Even on CB there is constant hacking and other issues which hinder the public from real mass adoption. At this point, more retail investors have lost money on CEX than made money.

Initial-Desk-360

Well this sub would have you believe that Binance is artificially propping up BNB and the whole house of cards is coming down any day now, lol. My time in defi has taught me that DEX + CEX coins are pretty much a fools game though. They are definitely some of my loss leaders, whatever you do DO NOT buy these coins after pumps, they are constantly printing and you will get dumped on.

GapingFartLocker

If you're looking for a CEX/dex with lower fees I recommend checking out [WOO.org](http://woo.org). WOOx is their centralized platform that offers zero fee trading to users who stake 1800 woo (less than $400). They have very tight spreads and amazing liquidity as well. WOOFi is their decentralized platform that also has very low fees, I use WOOFi for most of my trades as I prefer self custody. $WOO current mktcap is $381mln.

99Beers

Run from this. Here is the story about VGX. Voyager, a now defunct and bankrupt CEX also sold their coin called VGX. If you held VGX, especially in large amounts, you would earn more interest/return from their "EARN" program, which was an unsecured loan program. Search for this post in reddit to view those Redditors that lost it all, "How much did everyone have on voyager? I had 30k and my husband 150k ish . Trying to feel better" A few people lost $150k-800k. Not only did people lose all the coins they loaned out, but the VGX token also got wiped out.

thewaybaseballgo

As safe as any other private CEX in the US. But they did pay a $30M fine to the SEC for their staking program in February. The SEC sued them for selling unregistered securities last month.

CointestMod

#Polygon Pro-Arguments Below is a Polygon pro-argument written by a deleted user. > ####**High Efficiency** > > **Very Fast network** > > The main benefit of using the Polygon PoS network is that it's an Ethereum scaling solution that provides much faster and cheaper transactions. > > * **High Throughput**: Current throughput is 350 TPS for 21k gas transfers and ~150 for ERC-20 tokens. It can go faster as a [7200 TPS test with 122 validators has shown](https://cryptoslate.com/matic-testnet-just-powered-ethereum-eth-to-7200-tps-dapps-next/), but Polygon decided to keep the limit at 30M gas per block to combat spam and storage bloat. > * **Fast Block Times**: It has very-fast [2-second average block times](https://polygonscan.com/chart/blocktime). Though due to its finality being probabilistic and high chance of reorgs, you would want to wait ~32 blocks or 1 minute before assuming finality. > > **Lower Fees than L2** > > * Fees are extremely cheap, so much that [validators have been colluding to set the priority fee at 30 Gwei](https://cryptoslate.com/polygon-matic-to-raise-gas-fee-to-30-gwei-to-prevent-spam-transactions/) to combat spam ever since [Polygon co-founder Sandeep's recommendation for it in Oct 2021](https://forum.polygon.technology/t/recommended-min-gas-price-setting/7604). > * Even with the artificially-inflated fees, Polygon transfer fees still only cost $0.001 while competing L2 rollup transfer fees are usually 10x to 100x more expensive in the [$0.02 to $0.20 range](https://l2fees.info/). > * A lot of games like Decentraland and The Sandbox moved to Polygon because they are able to airdrop NFTs to thousands of players at negligible costs. > > ####**Benefits from a synergistic relationship with Ethereum** > > There is a lot of overlap between the Ethereum and Polygon communities, and they both benefit from it. > > While Polygon is technically a sidechain, it helps offload a lot of traffic off Ethereum L1 and thus helps scale it. Thus, it's filling in the same role as an L2. > > * Polygon copies a lot of Ethereum's code and updates. For example, Polygon's London update for EIP-1559 is copied from Ethereum's London update. > * Nearly any wallet that works for Ethereum also works for Polygon. > * Polygon and Ethereum both use EVM for smart contracts, so it's easy for Ethereum's large number of devs to work on Polygon. Their blockchain explorers are also almost identical, so it's easy to audit transactions between them. > * Polygon's Bor block producer layer runs a version of Geth (the Go implementation of Ethereum), so they share similar consensus clients. > * Polygon generates hundreds of thousands of dollars of transactions fees for Ethereum through [MATIC Token transfers](https://etherscan.io/token/0x7d1afa7b718fb893db30a3abc0cfc608aacfebb0), [PoS Bridge transfers](https://etherscan.io/address/0xa0c68c638235ee32657e8f720a23cec1bfc77c77), and their [Root Chain Proxy](https://etherscan.io/address/0x86e4dc95c7fbdbf52e33d563bbdb00823894c287) checkpoints every 30-45 minutes. > * Ethereum provides security for Polygon PoS through [their checkpoints](https://wiki.polygon.technology/docs/pos/heimdall/checkpoint/), which are necessary as Polygon bridge proofs. MATIC tokens are also [staked on the Ethereum network](https://wiki.polygon.technology/docs/faq/staking-faq/). > > ####**High TVL and app support** > > * **Top 10**: Polygon's TVL has declined greatly in the bear market [to $1.2B](https://defillama.com/chains), but it's still enough to hang onto its Top 10 spot. Its market cap is also still in the [top 10 at $10B](https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/polygon). > * **Many dApps** like OpenSea, AAVE, Curve, and Uniswap support Polygon. **Reddit's Collectible Avatars** launched on Polygon PoS, which gave it a lot of social media publicity. > * **CEX support**: Most of the largest CEXs like Binance, Coinbase, and Kraken now support the Polygon network for withdrawals. > * **Metaverse**: The 2 largest metaverse games, Decentraland and The Sandbox uses Polygon for their player item NFTs. > > ####**Upcoming Polygon zkEVM** > > The whole Ethereum community is very excited for zkEVMs. > > Polygon was the first to launch a [public zkEVM testnet](https://polygon.technology/blog/polygon-zkevm-public-testnet-the-next-chapter-for-ethereum) in Oct 2022. They already have a [mainnet launch date of March 27, 2023](https://polygon.technology/blog/to-ethereum-with-love-announcing-polygon-zkevm-mainnet-beta-on-march-27th), and everyone is looking forward to it. > > #####**Nakamoto Coefficient is increasing** > > Polygon has a [limit of 100 validators](https://wiki.polygon.technology/docs/maintain/validate/validator-responsibilities/). While this is still quite low, it actually has a bigger Nakamoto Coefficient than both Bitcoin and Ethereum. The more important thing is that it's increasing. Only several months ago, it only took 5 validators to reach 50% stake of the network. Now it has increased to [7 staking validators](https://polygonscan.com/stat/miner?range=14&blocktype=blocks) of MATIC. You can track the identities of the validators, and they all seem to be distinct organizations. > > This is partially thanks to how its [staking website](https://staking.polygon.technology/validators) encourages delegates to stake with smaller validators. Validators with large stakes are hidden on the website while only the smaller ones are shown. There is also a message at the top saying: "To distribute power on the network, please delegate to other top performing validators." > > ####**Great user experience** > > I personally complain a lot about Polygon's centralization and lack of transparency. But I still use Polygon PoS more than any other network. > > Ultimately what matters to me is that it is fast, cheap, has a huge amount of dApps, has good CEX adoption, and has a great blockchain explorer. And those combined lead to a great user experience. > > For new users who don't have MATIC gas tokens, there is a [Polygon Wallet Suite](https://wallet.polygon.technology/polygon/gas-swap) where you can use meta transactions to convert bridged ETH to MATIC without first needing MATIC. > > ####**Long-term Economic Sustainability** > > - The MATIC token is used for staking, and those rewards come from both a token pool and from transaction fee. The [1.2B token pool allocated to Validator Rewards is expected to run out in 2023](https://docs.polygon.technology/docs/maintain/validator/rewards/), after which there will be no more supply inflation. Fifth year validator rewards from the 12% pre-allocated supply will total $150M. After the 5th year, validators are meant to survive on transaction fees alone. > - Currently, [transaction Fees generate $70M annually, with $40M of it burned](https://tokenterminal.com/terminal/projects/polygon). This equates to $300K per validator annually. That's more than enough to run a validator annually. So besides Ethereum, this is one of the few networks with an economically-sustainable security model without inflation. ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_Polygon) to find submissions for other topics.

BuffaloBrain884

Exactly. Celsius, Blockfi, and FTX all had fanboys on this sub talking about how safe and secure they are. Never trust a CEX. Period.

BuffaloBrain884

>Kraken is a trusted CEX Never trust a CEX. They all have the ability to freeze your account and they all have the ability to steal your funds.

Kyonkanno

Yes, everybody shits on CEXs in the cryptocommunity but reality is that CEX offer more safety to regular users that dont have the discipline to keep their funds safe by themselves. Id hazard a guess and say that 80% of people are sufficiently served by CEXs. Granted, the whole idea of CEXs goes contrary to what crypto was born for in the first place. But hoping that humanity does a good job of anything, let alone safekeeping their seed phrases is a sure way to get disappointed.

gr8ful4

How those CEX love Visa and Mastercard is beyond hilarious. Signed up for all the wrong reasons.

Exact_Combination_38

As far as CEXs go, Kraken is probably the best. It's still a CEX, though.

NeoMatrixSquared

Kraken is a solid CEX and platform. I give them solid 5-stars. But remember not your keys not your coins. If they sink your coins sink too.

CointestMod

#DEX Pro-Arguments Below is a DEX pro-argument written by excalilbug. > The biggest advantage of Decentralized Exchanges is already mentioned in the name – they are **decentralized**. What does it exactly mean? If an exchange is truly decentralized it: > > ​ > > * Does not store your assets or personal data = it is **private** and people control their funds. You yourself are responsible for your finances > * There is no one individual or small group of individuals who have full control of the exchange and there is no one point of failure = just like in (healthy) democracy everyone has a say in every decision and the **exchange can't be shut down so easily** (because its "servers" are spread around the world) > * There is **free access** = you don't have to go through KYC, so not only it is more private than centralized exchanges but also no one can stop you from accessing the exchange from anywhere you live. No KYC also keeps you **save from personal data leaks**. If CEX is hacked, your personal data might be leaked. And since you upload your ID there together with a lot of personal data such leaks are very dangerous > * There are **no middlemen** = all transactions are made directly between buyers and sellers > > ​ > > The last point gives decentralized crypto exchanges a big advantage because – let's be honest – what people care most about is not decentralization or privacy – it is money. By removing the middleman DEXes can take much **lower fees**. DEXes can also save money on customer support, lawyer teams, marketing and many other things. That is why using DEXes is usually cheaper. Of course it all depends on liquidity of assets. But with time – as DEXes become easier to use and more popular (hopefully) – the liquidity will stop being a problem for most assets > > And it is hard to overstate the other important aspect of decentralized exchanges – **TRANSPARENCY**. > > Centralized Exchanges - especially the big ones – can manipulate the market. For example today most trades take place on Binance. This is very, very bad. Because if Binance isn't transparent (and it isn't) it can easily manipulate the market when it generates as much as 70% of total volume (n the case of Bitcoin Binance exchange is responsible for 98% of all spot trading volume - [https://cryptoslate.com/binance-takes-over-98-of-all-bitcoin-spot-trading-volume/](https://cryptoslate.com/binance-takes-over-98-of-all-bitcoin-spot-trading-volume/) \- whenever I'm reminded of Binance dominance I just wish it was Binance that collapsed instead of FTX. The market would crash much harder but in long term it could be very positive – see: Mt Gox). > > In the case of DEXes everyone is equal. Everyone can see all the trades that were made. Everyone can see market orders. **Everyone has the same data available**. CEXes can give only part of that data or even hide much of it. Then they can use it to their advantage (market manipulation, inside trading). > > Another important thing we need to remember is that Decentralized Exchanges are still a new concept. This might of course mean that it will all go to trash. But I prefer to think positively – I believe that there are many incredible **innovations awaiting us** and the concept of DEX and Decentralized Finance (DeFi) will succeed. I believe there will be many talented developers and visionaries who will come up with wonderful ideas and more and more people will start using DEXes. Eventually all centralized exchanges (both crypto and traditional) will be finally challenged and there will be more balance in the world of finance… > Let's keep our fingers crossed > > **TL;DR** – no middleman, no KYC, no centralized power who can freeze your assets whenever it wants, privacy, transparency, lower fees, innovative, the more popular, the more secure, can bring more balance to the world of finance, harder to manipulate the market because everyone has access to the same amount of information > > ​ > > Sources: > > [https://cointelegraph.com/defi-101/what-are-decentralized-exchanges-and-how-do-dexs-work](https://cointelegraph.com/defi-101/what-are-decentralized-exchanges-and-how-do-dexs-work) > > [https://www.coinbase.com/pl/learn/crypto-basics/what-is-a-dex](https://www.coinbase.com/pl/learn/crypto-basics/what-is-a-dex) > > And other Cointest arguments (both pro and con) ***** Would you like to learn more? Check out the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_DEX) to find submissions for other topics.

Vegas_42

Kraken is a trusted CEX with a top customer service. I had no issues the last 2.5 years. I recommend the pro app for low fees.

gr8ful4

I've seen it plenty of times since I took part in this market. I was there when Bitcoinica went down and when Mt. Gox went down. During Bitstamp and Bitfinex hack. When Quadriga went down. Were you? Every single time people like you showed up playing the benefit of the doubt card, which basically amounts to trick people into not taking action and get out of those house of cards early on. The only exchange that has left some credibility is Bitstamp. There are plenty of signs that HTX and Poloniex were running fractional reserve schemes for years. Them being "hacked" is the standard playbook of how to exit your failing CEX business gracefully. Can't you see the writing on the wall. Bitcoin/crypto was meant to be a replacement of third parties because NO third party ever can be trusted. And for better or worse this space seems to get rid of those entities over time. That doesn't mean it is not profitable for those who know how to dupe the masses and make it worth their investment at least for some time.

Fair_Raccoon9333

CEX's aren't crypto. They are on and offramps subject to law.

the_far_yard

Poliniex was my first CEX back in 2017. It was running good and even the support was decent when I was recovering my wallet back in 2021, 4 years later- but Justin probably had it coming given his track record in this space.

DirkDiggler1888

Buy FTM from CEX and use Houdini swap to convert to BTC privately. I would say however that you should be withdrawing every 2 or DCA periods in order to keep your withdrawal fee percentage below 1%.

telejoshi

Understandable. You can either give up your keys and stake on a CEX, run a validator with 32ETH risking penalty when your internet doesn't work or swap your ETH for rETH. No thanks.

BawceHog

If we are talking CEX staking, sure. But if you can stake yourself while maintaining ownership of assets plus a higher yield, I'd go that route. Why involve a exhange?

Long-Wrangler5784

Monthly dca BTC and ETH, earning passive income on them (won't say the name because people here don't tolerate it when u mention CEX), small amounts on interesting altcoins (50-100$) and if it flips change to ETH and BTC, day-trading when there is volatility. That's it basically

randomFrenchDeadbeat

>That’s why I have a single address for BTC coming from exchanges. It still is the same issue. If you made 400 transfers to that one single address and you want to move the total, your transaction will still be the size of 400 transfers. If you want to avoid this issue, you need to make less on chain transactions, meaning you can make small transactions on a CEX (which is done off chain), then make one to your hardware wallet on a threshold you decide on. Or just make fewer transactions directly, and spend 1000 at a time instead of 5 x 200 for example. Less transactions = less fees, both now and later, when you want to combine those many transactions into one.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

You are facing one issue now, but I guarantee you will be facing a much bigger one once your coins are in your wallet, and you want to transfer that out. Say you bought a total of 1 BTC in 400 transactions. You paid fees on every one of those transactions, which is your current worry here. The issue you will face is you dont actually have "1 BTC"; you have 400 transactions that totals 1BTC. When you want to transfer that BTC, that one transaction will be the combined size of 400 transactions. Basically, you will have to pay fees for those 400 transactions again. The problem is not how much you move, but how many transactions you make. Basically, if you want bitcoin on chain, you cant use small values or it will kill you in fees. And there is no way to solve this as long as you want your BTC on chain. There is no in between, there is no "closer", either you are on chain, or you arent. If you want to do small transactions, do them on a CEX or fees will ruin you, and there is nothing you can do about this.

randomFrenchDeadbeat

The issue is you are making lots of transactions with that "100/200$ DCA" . This is unfortunate but thats a BTC issue, not a CEX issue. You dont want to make many small transactions into one with BTC. This is not seen on a CEX because those transfers dont happen on chain. Basically the exchange has BTC onchain, and a database saying account X has some BTC and account Y has some other, and account X sells some to account Y; but no on chain transfer happens, so fees are minimal.

ZulkarnaenRafif

CEX is sex without condoms.

JakAllen3141

Bridge it to BTC.b on Avax and then put it up for collateral on Benqi and borrow against it that way. Send the USDC to your CEX and you're golden.

uncapchad

AML is coming for us all. And yes, I see other comments here re Monero etc but the bottom line is that they will eventually force all the banks to comply. It's already happening in the UK - there are few on/off ramp services left. Deal with a CEX, deal through a broker but you cannot deal with anonymous people. It's fine to transact purely in crypto but try buy with fiat or cash out and you are blocked by the banks.

Andyroo2912

Well polygon has low fees in general so ya it would track that any transactions made with the wallet should have low fees. It wouldn't be any lower than from a hardware wallet though, all depends on the transaction and the network. Also > monthly subscription that makes it so I don't have to pay fees I think that means you just pay your fees a month at a time. And it goes straight to your CEX instead of the validator. Make sure you run the math on that and you're not getting a raw deal.

Schwacolyte

Jesus man. Nice. Swap for stables. Pay your taxes and then get it into self custody. OR, if you believe in the tech transfer to a cold wallet and make a decision later. Keep in mind Gemini is going to report the rewards so you have short term capital gains on a CEX that is 100% recorded.

Oneloff

True, but imagine if we stopped using any company that has been sued for XYZ reason we would all starve to death. I agree precautions should be taken, but to simply bug out because of a lawsuit is silly. It’s suspicious and not a fact, and still yet to be proven. On top of that, another CEX got the same damn lawsuit which is funny in itself. Again the concern is legit but these precautions should have already been in place not now because of some dubious claims.

telejoshi

Could be a CEX, a DEX, could be one of Saylor's wallets, who knows.

Boddis

About something Found in the audit, it’s not exactly something that no one has done before either… No one thinks it can happen to their CEX until it does

Calibased

Their financials are still public and none of these other exchanges are. So again I’m not saying they are free from wrong doing but they are a cut above all other CEX.

fairysquirt

you're asking two queries and confusing them both. you're asking about BITCOIN but then your reasoning for why there may be more BITCOIN in circulating than stated (which is verifiable and the entire purpose of POW and Blocks, keeping an immutable ledger globally with millions of co-verified copies)... with people selling fake Bitcoin on CEX and CFDs and shit. lol