Rocketpool is 16ETH (and 1.6ETH worth of RPL) Around Q1 of 2023 soon to be 8ETH (+2.4ETH worth of RPL) Running your own Validator on your own hardware with control of your keys. I’ve been staking with ~20ETH for almost a year now.
My current portfolio looks like this: 25% BTC, 50% ETH, 15% MATIC, the rest is various smaller projects like GNS, GMX and RPL What do you think? Anything you would change? (considering I'm rather risk averse)
Yeah, some downsides to staking with Rocket Pool are: * Smart Contract Risk. * rETH is only tradable for ETH if there aren't any nodes queued up to become validators, this is almost never the case so the true value for the tokens needs to be obtained via exchanges. This rate is often lower than the post rate from Rocket Pool. * Requires you to buy some of their token RPL as collateral for staking. My plan is to save up enough rETH/ETH, then run my own Rocketpool node. Getting closer each day.
That’s not how Rocketpool works. They aren’t printing money out of thin air to give out. You get whatever Is earned through staking ETH. For Rocketpool to tank it would require the death of ETH or some flaw in the smart contract that no one noticed and was exploited. Either way the ETH would be safe it would just be the RPL that could be impacted.
Wow, thank you for a fantastic reply. Recently I've been spending time with the L2s, and I like what I'm seeing. I'll also take another look at RPL since I haven't looked at it much since 2017. I'll also take a deeper look at Rocketpool. Thanks again for the amazing information.
GMX is an extremely smooth dApp, I love it. I've been investing in it too. Very natural growth, immense TVL, and they're far in profit. The team behind it are very smart and the backend tech is as polished as their frontend.. It's Arbitrum's best app. Arbitrum is running an event - eventually - Arbitrum Odyssey, where you do tasks for NFTs, and the first week that goes live Arb is getting everyone try GMX for that week's NFTs. I seen a couple comments in this thread that don't know the beauty that is GMX - validation I'm still early. It's a great DEX, try it out if you haven't before. I think RPL has a good shot personally. Very sustainable tokenomics. To validate on Ethereum you need 32 ETH, **or** you can create a 'mini pool' on Rocketpool for 16 ETH - using 1.6 RPL as collateral for in case you're slashed then 16 other ETH from a 'rETH' pool.. Then regular people can buy 'rETH', a liquid staked ETH derivitive *that bears interest* in any denomination, and they don't have to worry about slashing because it's backed by RPL. Rocketpool is developing on making *8 ETH* mini pools, with plans on reducing that down to 4 ETH later on and maybe even 1-2 if possible, down from 32 regularly or 16 using Rocketpool today. The incentives to run a 'Minipool' are that smaller fish can run their own validators, allowing even smaller fish to hold staking derivites and earn yield on their $50 of ETH. But my thesis is based on those with <32 ETH already - instead of running 1 validator they're now able to run 2 - maybe up to 16 validators in the future, using the same amount of ETH. To those would-be solo validators, they're able to earn greater yield in Rocketpool using the RETH pool to make up multiple validators than going solo, mostly because of RPL's own token incentives. If you're to run 2 mini pools, (16+16) instead of 1 solo pool you're required to put up 1.6+1.6 RPL as collateral, and if you ran 4 mini pools you'd need twice as much collateral than that. This gives RPL demand, since it's the only way to 'leverage your validator yield' which tbh sounds exactly like something people would do. When most validators locked up, Rocketpool wasn't available. No decentralized staking was at all, actually. Rocketpool is completely decentralized, and even uses the same ETH clients to validate allowing for ease of migration. When unstaking is enabled, probably in the Spring/Summer, I expect a lot more people will use Rocketpool than today, assuming people do care about decentralization. Rocketpool did an interview on Bankless before and threw out the most wild numbers - but I double checked the math after and it backs up. Even if 1/10th of *their* thesis comes true it should be a very strong token next bull market. Their whitepaper is very good also, explains it a lot more clearly than I just did. Aside from that L2's themselves are profit machines. Their security costs are >1/100 of an L1 yet they process practically 100x as much activity. In other words they aren't inflationary. Arbitrum individually has more activity than Solana now, so does Optimism iirc. Each are only just coming out with their tokens *now* so there should be lots of opportunities to get in on distribution (such as Arbitrum Odyssey, Optimism Quest, Zksync validation, etc.) otherwise it may be a good opportunity to DCA (to mitigate from the initial inflation, speculative dumps, etc.). These are the next cycle's *L1-killers* imo. Zksync wants to be maximally decentralized, their token will likely act the same as ETH, whereas I believe the Optimism token is used for governance (to decide where the all the profit goes), so each are different and require their own research. No cost + high profit - if they can't make *that* work there's no hope looking at fundamentals anywhere lol.
RPL: dumped massive just at the thought of a vote going in an odd direction. Total chaos over in rocket land this week. I think this is overblown for the vote not even being close to over but I am not holding a ton. Thoughts on LEB8s? Thoughts on the limit per minipool?
Everything new is complicated and that's the point at the start of a technology. At the start there are a lot of less people than at the finish like. The same was with internet boom and with computer tech at the start. But the early birds got the most out of it. I like to look at cypto from a broader view, some projects will succeed in one area others in a different one. BTC will be like a digital gold, RPL and other decentralized staking protocols will be wanted more and more, Angelblock will take care of startups, ETH will prob be the main language in the space if it does not fck it up and get replaced..Its simply like a new world is being build in the cryptosphere. We are at such early phases most of us dont even realize it yet.
BTC will be pamp, no doubt about that. 100K is conservative in the looong term. You just need to consider the time play, esp in the current market conditions around the world. The signs are everywhere that institutions are more bullish then ever on crypto, some of them getting in with tremendous funding. Eyeing Velas blockchain,with GEM entering in there with $135M and their grant program being $100M heavy, that is a ridiculously big amount of money. Bullish also on the best DeX UNI and we could see staking protocol RPL(the best imo) go to amazing lengths in the future as ETH will grow and more people will be using it..Tho i must say i'm bit worried on what will happen to UNI in the longrun as the news came out that Binance has become the 2nd largest voting entity there..
ETH until BTC halves, then BTC, then ETH again.. Maybe rollups, if Arbitrum makes a token, or Zksync, Polygon lZK, etc. It might be better to try and get an airdrop on those than to buy though, depends on how they're distributed (OP's supply for will inflate by 1000% in the next couple years for example). I really like Rocket Pool's tokenomics. RP enables a solo validator to earn more rewards by creating a mini pool than staking solo, and enables users with $1+ to stake in those decentralized *minipools*. There's no(extremely low) slashing risk to the $1 stakers because the minipool operators have to post 10% collateral in $RPL tokens (that are sold off in case of slashing), but if the validator has more RPL they earn an even greater APR. There's a huge incentive for validators to load up on RPL (before it gets expensive). rETH is the only decentralized staking derivitive so far but has only 1% validator capitalization. They offer a greater APR to stake (or run a pool) than any alternative. It's undervalued imo.
>If you mess up, you get ganked ("slashed") for your Ether This is a common misconception. If you mess up, you get penalised. Slashing is reserved for malicious activities. You have to intentionally do something bad. Penalties are very minor in comparison, and you just need more uptime than downtime to be profitable. Maintaining a validator is requires minimal effort. The hardest part is setting up and gaining the knowledge to do this in the first place (and even then you have step by step guides). ​ >I think their argument is literally 100% the opposite of "not caring about the health of the network". To make a health related metaphor, Lido think we should use actual, trained doctors. Others think we should use the guy down the street who got a B+ in high school biology. This is complete nonsense and you completely miss the point. The only benefit professionals have is economies of scale for hardware and redundancy set ups. If you actually look at network performance ([rated.network](https://rated.network)) you will see that the effectiveness of many professional outfits is lower than that of individuals. Hell, one 'professional' didn't even update for Bellatrix and leaked rewards for 8 hours. ​ >Not to mention, you need 32 ETH to solo stake in a purely decentralized way (Rocketpool's "give us 16ETH option gives and we'll partner with you to run it" option gives them more control over more validators with less of their own funds at stake... which is literally the opposite of increasing decentralization). It's going to be dominated by legit professionals by default. Wrong again. Rocket Pool matches 16 ETH of user deposits with 16 ETH of a node operator. That's all it is. This reduces the barrier to entry and actually \*increase\* decentralisation, as it enables more node operators. Individual NO's still have 16 ETH at stake (which is first on the line), plus their RPL stake, and this will cover for 99.9% of eventualities. ​ >I think this staggering figures shows just how much better of a product Lido is than it's competitors. The figures show first mover advantage. Lido was first LSD on the market at Genesis. It has therefore benefited from the largest network effects - Maker and AAve collateral integrations, Ledger integrations etc. It has the deepest liquidity and was able to absorb initial demand. Those that wanted an LSD sunk their ETH in to Lido as the only thing on the market. ​ >Rocketpools makes you stake their shitcoin in order to participate in validation. Lido isn't scamming you into buying and hodling the LDO token just to do staking. As mentioned above, this is quite literal a security measure and is why it leads to greater decentralisation. To stake, you need something at stake. Lido node operators have nothing at stake. They receive 5% of validator rewards for absolutely nothing. Their only incentive is further profit, but this is independent of validator performance. ​ >That's on the validator side. On the customer side, they are LIQUID staking so I'm assuming people using them want the advantages of a LIQUID token. Lido has insanely more liquidity, so less price impact on selling. Lido is accepted in way more defi protocols than Rocketpool is so you can actually use it in stuff, which is a major point of a LIQUID token. They're also on more L2s and side chains so you have more places to use it. Yes - as above. If you launch a year ahead of competition, you would expect to cover a lot more ground. This advantage diminishes over time. >Lido has some first mover advantage but a lot of their liquidity comes from just being a flat out better product. Why is it a better product? All things being equal it is objectively an inferior product. It's not trustless and yields less than competitors. >Nothing stops Rocketpool from being like you don't have to hodl our shitcoin just to be a validator... but they value the shitcoin more than they validation. As above - this is false. It is required for insurance to rETH holders (protection against malicious NO's) and further incentivises NO's to do their job. > Nothing stops rocketpool or cbETH from being on L2s and sidechains... but they aren't. The competition isn't even trying to compete with Lido. DAO governance is the sticking point. Rocket Pool has open votes on Maker and Balancer. A Chainlink oracle is close to fruition and that opens the door to Aave and many more protocols. You're right in so much as nothing is stopping them, but time is the key component here, not lack of trying. >Their only selling point is buh buh 33% so you HAVE to use us. It's not the only selling point, but it 100% is a reason to avoid. Without a healthy network, there are no rewards. A healthy network is the number one priority.
RocketPool provides liquid staking on Ethereum and forces validators (SPOs) to buy their $RPL token. Stakers are told it's normal to accept less $rETH than the $ETH they delegate because number go up. The liquid $rETH starts off locked. You can't make this up.
Rocketpool is the safest of them, which is why rETH trades at a slight premium to lidos stETH. The reason is that it is backed up by both ETH and additional RPL token owned by the node operator, which in the event of a problem gets liquidated before your funds
> meaning Nexo is a a black box then.... avoid? I would, yes. > How about Rocketpool for Eth? RocketPool is a decentralized staking pool, interest for rETH holders is the Beacon Chain staking rewards (from issuance and transaction fee tips) minus 15% of those rewards which goes to the minipool operators... You be a minipool operator yourself if you have 16 ether and 1.6 ether worth of RPL. This is permissionless and as such fully decentralized. If you run a minipool (an Ethereum validator) you earn the normal staking rewards (as above) plus 15% of the rewards earned on rETH holders' contributions. All of this is checkable onchain, controlled by smart contracts, developed as an open source project, and with decisions made by a DAO. It's pretty much the opposite to stuff like Celsius and Nexo.
By far the best option for people who just want to stake a little bit (0.01 to 17.6 ether) in terms of decentralization is to buy rETH. This is RocketPool's decentralized liquid staking derivative. The ether used to obtain it goes into a pool that makes up the difference for node operators who have 16 ether themselves but need another 16 to get a validator running. The rETH you hold will appreciate in value relative to ether at the reward rate minus 15% (which goes to the node operators). If you've got 17.6 ether and a spare computer (even just a Raspberry Pi) you can swap 1.6 ether to RPL and then become a RocketPool node operator, acting as the other half of the system described above for rETH. This will give you a slightly higher reward % than solo staking as you're getting 15% of the rETH holder's share, as well as some RPL rewards. The downside is that if you miss rewards or get slashed then that comes from your side of the stake.
As Rocketpool is a decentralized system, it functions on incentives. Node operators are incentivised by the protocol to stake as much RPL as insurance as possible, due to additional rewards that are given for providing a bigger safety net should they perform poorly. Any losses after that are socialized across the Rocketpool network. It is nearly impossible that an individual depositor loses out.
Lido is not centralized staking. Do not include it with those others, it's decentralized staking like RPL. You can participate in being a validator by swapping for fractional shares of rETH or stETH. The barrier to entry is significantly lower than buying mining hardware. If you buy your own mining hardware you're competing against mining pools with huge leverage and you're never going to propose a block. Validators can't withdraw earnings to stabilize the network while we transition to PoS. That was the reason. And doesn't make it more centralized. PoW is resilient for now, but when the network scales to over a trillion dollars, it's easier to attack via PoW than it is via PoS. PoS is setting up long-term security and the grounds for scalability. I am arguing otherwise, and it is clear to me you don't really know what you're talking about.
I'm downvoting you because you're wrong lol. It's not more centralized. The majority of staked Ether is not held by a few exchanges. They hold 25%. It's more decentralized because now it's easier for normal people to validate in the network with liquid decentralized staking (Lido, RPL). It's 5x harder to attack. And PoW actually favors those with more, more-so than PoS. With PoW you get economies of scale and have a higher chance at mining a block if you have larger mining operations. Such is not the case with PoS, each validator has an equal chance at proposing a block, doesn't matter how many you run.
That's not the barrier for entry for ETH. People interested in staking ETH can use decentralized pooling available via the RocketPool protocol to stake almost any amount of ETH in a cost-effective manner. How small they can go depends mostly on how they enter the system (Through the RPL smart contracts? Through an exchange?) and what fees are involved with that entry point. RPL pooling is decentralized, so it's run by a wide range of node operators, it's not subject to some central point of control. It's not a future project, it's been in use for a year now. It works. You will receive a steady APR, similar to joining a mining pool with your "home PC with decent graphics card" - well, minus the fact that the centralized pool operators can do anything they want with your hashpower vs. the RPL node operators being widely varied entities, but I'm not arguing that part.
besides eth dot and link i also bag some spool cro grt kda kdx ... so what should I say ... I don't touch my eth, besides RPL it, dot i think will do a good move now with the d-telecom partnership, but the biggest qustion i have to wait to get answered is how huge will kadena get. PoW with no trilema, staking options on the defi side of it on kaddex. but if you feel down, just zoom out on chart, and you'll see the big pic again :) with the right asset ofcourse lol
I hold Ethereum, lol. It's in my top 5 favorite cryptos, I think. I do not ignore Rocketpool. I mention it explicitly. > What is the minimum staking amount for a node operator? The minimum staking amount for a node operator is 16 ETH. But you can easily stake in multiples of 16 ETH on your own node using our smart node software. You will also need some RPL to act as collateral in the event of serious downtime or penalties. This collateral is treated as an insurance promise to the protocol which earns you more RPL the longer you stake. > The Rocket Pool node commission fee is now a fixed 15%. Node operators earn 15% commission on the ETH reward they generate for the protocol - simple! > What is the minimum deposit? I’ll save you a scroll, it’s 0.01 ETH. Sure, anyone can stake. It does mean you have to do a transaction to stake your ETH, you're then unable to withdraw ETH, and that you pay a fee to wheover the node operator is.
RPL is solid for ETH imo. But i have never used LIDO..I would suggest u look into VLX and stake that. These price levels will be unseen in the future since their ecosystem is expanding massively, ROI will be huge imo, and with such high speeds (75kTps) and super security i think it will come real far in the next bull cycle..It is the fastest EVM chain on the planet. I hold ADA but don't stake it..maybe i should hmm.
RPL is the best for staking ETH imo but also explore other projects to stake such as VLX, i'm staking it and i think that i will more than enjoy the ride. The ROI of it will probably grow massively in the future since they're the fastest EVM chain out there and Ferrari premium partner. And now they're getting into building the first ever NFT marketplace for them..
The validator puts in 16 of their own ETH and receives 16 ETH from the deposit pool. The validator doesn't have access to the 16 ETH from the deposit pool, the rocketpool smart contract does, it is completely non-custodial. They could fail to validate and get slashed, but that is why the validator must put up RPL collateral which acts as insurance for slashing, so even if the 16ETH that they are using to validate (which they cant do anything else with) gets slashed, their RPL stake is used to cover the loss. The only way to access my share of the ETH in the pool is with my keys, returning my RETH for ETH.
Rocketpool offers that too! rETH holders aren't penalized for bad staking.. Validators with 16 ETH are required to purchase at least 10% of their ETH's value in RPL tokens to be used as collateral. If they're slashed their RPL is sold at market rate to cover the rETH pool from losses. Since there are so many validators running RP even if one or a few are 100% slashed the rETH pool would only experience slightly reduced APR for a while until rewards caught back up some hours later. It would take *most* validators slashed *completely* (not from a minute inactivity penalty but from an intentional malicious attack) to really mess with rETH's backing, but since the validators are decentralized there's no reason they'd all be slashed unless *every* validator on ETH was at once too.
>As I saw the price depeg I was a bit dubious and don’t understand how the conversion back will work afterwards, does it mean I’m going to get less back for what I put in? Read the whitepaper of whichever liquid staking derivitive (LSD) you're interested in, they're not all created equal and not all pay the same APR either. For the most part they can be redeemed for 1 ETH once withdraws are enabled, likely a year after the merge. The reason they're trading at a discount is mostly from the Luna collapse, traders had to sell their LSD they used for collateral to avoid even larger liquidations, and because the liquidity pool isn't as large as ETH it depegged by quite a lot. Some LSD represent 1 ETH plus staking rewards, so if you can grab one for 0.9 today it'll be worth 1.1 in a year, a *great* arbitrage opportunity if you planned to hold anyway. I recommend rETH since it's the most decentralized. It carries the least slashing risk, and their RPL token is probably worth looking into too. Their whitepaper is interesting and their documentation is great. They did an interview on the Bankless podcast/YouTube and went over all the current and future details which may help you understand. The reason they'll be worth 1 ETH *later* is because if they're trading at a discount while withdraws are enabled people will buy them for >1 ETH and redeem it immediately for the arbitrage. That's not possible yet so carries some risk premium. That also means you will be able to trade your LSD at a DEX like Uniswap instead of redeeming it or going through unfamiliar/centralized channels. >Thirdly and lastly, how will I get the new ether? Will it just be swapped out or will I have to pay some crazy gas fees to get them swapped on some platform or does it happen in wallet/exchange? If you have a LSD outside of an exchange in your custody you're subject to the same blockspace fees you'd normally pay. Today it would cost about $5 to swap them on Uniswap. There's no reason to swap them for ETH necessarily as they'll have DeFi/NFT/exchange/L2 etc. support soon, and we can use them in place of ETH entirely but in a way that accrues interest. If they are on an exchange then just swap them for ETH or unstake them, it shouldn't cost anything more than a normal token swap. If you mean how to convert your old ETH into new ETH (from 1.0 to 2.0 or POW to POS) then you have to do nothing at all. It happens automatically and *all ETH* will run under POS after the merge. >I get that the merge will change it to proof of stake, as I was still new to the industry I didn’t stake my coins for the merge and have trialled it now with a little bit, with the merge being days away is it worthwhile to stake the rest now? The APR is 4% now but will rise to 6%+ ish after the merge, once transaction fees start going to stakers. In bull markets it may exceed 10% even with an increased amount of stakers. That's enough to double your ETH in 7-10 years, better than not staking. Buying an LSD that's depegged the most is likely most profitable short-term, assuming it's not sketchy or broken. That used to be Lido (maybe the most centralized, opposite of Rocketpool) which I generally would never advocate for but if their LSD is trading at 0.8something to you that may be worth the risk. It's essentially a guaranteed (\*still some nonzero smart contract and slashing risk) +10-20% if you can stomach the wait.
Rocket Pool's $RPL. It's a no-brainer leading up to and through the Merge. It's gone from #240 on the coins by market cap list to #76 in the past year. It will be a top #20 coin sometime after the Merge. Get on board now while there is still time.
>All this wrapped eth stuff isn’t a concern? Your giving up custody for wrapped liquid staking. Meanwhile those offering the service are getting the ability to control a large percentage of staked value that isn’t technically their funds. Sounds like a huge liability. It shouldn't be a concern. You aren't giving up custody because you can trade or redeem rETH for ETH at any time in fully decentralized ways. Those validating aren't in any more control than they would be without using the protocol. They're also required to purchase 10% as much of their staking value in RPL tokens to be used as collateral, and sold for ETH in case a staker is slashed. If as an rETH holder a large portion of the chain is slashed since the pool of validators is so large you would only notice a slight decrease of APR on that day. >Also, say rETH is widely accepted. It’s another vulnerability: what if the smart contract or mechanism for generating r ETH is exploited by the team or external actor. They can basically steal the liquidity of the whole chain. It's probably one of the most audited smart contracts next to the official ETH staking contract itself. It's not a very complex contract either for what that's worth. The rETH pool isn't 1:1 how many validators there are. There can be 320 ETH and only 1 validator running, in which case they'd earn 10x the normal rewards, so there's an incentive for other validators to start up. On average it will be 1:1 due to market pressures but if the liquidity pool *dries up* it doesn't affect the validator set, they would just be earning fewer rewards and rETH would be earning none. More likely there's say 324 ETH in the rETH pool, 320 of the ETH are being used, and 4 are at risk (or any amount under 32). If a bad actor does break the protocol validators would still not have access to half or more of the ETH they're validating with, so social consensus would all need to agree on withdraws to be enabled using some other token. It would be messy and the stolen ETH is still stolen, but thankfully is unlikely to happen. It carries the same inherent risk as any smart contract including the regular ETH staking contract. There's no reason to think Rocket Pool will have dominance either. There will be strong competition once withdraws are enabled and validators are able to change protocols every 6 minutes. I expect to see dozens of forks and clones like Uniswap vs Sushiswap vs Pancakeswap come out in the next few years, for good or worse. These protocols can also share liquidity pools to mitigate risk, or to offer users for rewards as a form of insurance/collateral instead. It's an emerging market and many things are possible.
Rocketpool is a staking provider for eth, similiar to lido but fsr more decentralised. You can stake with 16 ETH and 1.6 eth worth of RPL. Therefore as staking demand increaseș RPL demand does. Its outperforming ethereum and will continue to if staking demand continues. Which it will post mwrge wheen APY is higher and staking is far less risky!
RPL aside, Rocket Pool is great for Ethereum decentralisation and one of the only staking protocols to really attempt this. It really should have a greater validator market share than 1.6%. I hope that once able, people move their staked funds from CEXs to
Essentially you take 16 of your ETH and 16 ETH pooled up by other people (in as little as 0.01 ETH increments) and use that to run a validator as normal. Rocketpool calls these minipools. The 16 ETH that's borrowed is represented as rETH and bears interest. rETH has the same APR as staked ETH minus 15% that goes to the validator, so if they get 5.5% from validating you'd get 4.7% by holding. There's also no lockup for rETH and it can be converted into ETH at any time. The price of rETH appreciates from the APR rather than holders receiving new tokens, for tax purposes, so it's not meant to be the same price as ETH. Validators are required to buy RPL tokens to put up as collateral so if they're ever slashed their RPL is sold for ETH and rETH holders aren't at risk. Validators are required to buy 10% as much RPL as the value of ETH they have, so 1.6 *ETH worth* of RPL to stake using 16 ETH etc. Solo stakers are incentivized to do this despite *giving* 15% to rETH holders because they can turn their 32ETH into two validators/minipools earning more than otherwise. They'll earn ETH staking rewards off their 16ETH plus take 15% from the borrowed pools rewards, twice over leaving them with the regular 32 ETH APR +15%. The incentives work out great because it allows many more people to hold rETH and participate in the distribution than otherwise. They want to reduce it from 16ETH to 8 then 4. You'd be able to run 8 validators on one node if you had 32 ETH, but you'll be required to add more collateral for doing this than running a standard '16+16' minipool. You'd be responsible for potentially 256 ETH if you ran eight '4+28' minipool using 32 ETH, giving you greater rewards than using a *normal* minipool and especially solo staking. It's a work in progress and hard to tell where it will end up. >It's completely different from pow. Mining and running a node are two separate things. It takes little to run a Bitcoin node. It will be increasingly more expensive to become an eth validator Not necessarily. It takes a *lot* of power to run a Bitcoin miner. Something like $20,000 to mine 1 BTC so you'd need to expend over $100,000 in energy by yourself to have *some* chance at being fast enough for the next 10 minute block. There's really no way to profitably run one *by yourself* without joining a pool. I mean you can try but you'll never find a block. I think you're mixing up node types. Validators are just one type of node. The nodes you're familiar with in POW still exist on Ethereum. Nodes require very little computer resources, no stake, and decide on the consensus of the chain. Validators function the same as miners. The point is to put up enough stake to prove you're honest. If that's $5000 and ETH is $50,000 in theory people could validate using 1 ETH instead of 4 or 8. The 32 ETH limit is due to technical issues (too many nodes slows everything down) but protocols are able to work around it. There are also ideas floating around on having people validate using 1 ETH on the base layer by verifying small (random) parts of the chain instead of the whole chain. Combined with Rocketpool's protocol I can't imagine what's possible.
Alternatively you could just buy and sit on rETH to earn a greater APR than doing all of that. It's an Ethereum liquid staking derivitive (LSD) out of Rocket Pool. Validators need 32 ETH - or they can use the Rocket Pool protocol to use 16 ETH and pool 16 of other people's ETH to run a validator. That pooled ETH is represented as rETH so it's interest bearing. Soon they're reducing the requirement from 16 to 4 and people will be able to run *8* validators using 32 ETH, or one using 4 - which may make RPL a very valuable asset as the RPL collateral required to run 8 is 4x as much as 2, but I digress. You earn full staking rewards ETH stakers receive minus 15% that goes to the validator, but then you earn more than 15% back in RPL tokens that validators must buy as their collateral. RPL is to prevent anyone's poor staking abilities from losing your money. Solo validators are incentivized to do this and pay 15% of their rewards to rETH holders because if they have 32 ETH they can run *two* 32 ETH validators this way. Being a mini pool validator you'd earn the ETH staking % off 16 ETH plus 15% from the borrowed 16 ETH, and since you can create two pools using 32 you'd earn 15% more total this way than by working solo. More than 15% if you have 4-8 minipools instead, it's like leveraged staking. I think it's a nifty solution. Very soon rETH will be accepted in DeFi so we can just use it in place of ETH all together, and we will all be stakers. I'll let the tech guys figure it out and take all the slashing risk for *15%* of new ETH I was not getting otherwise.
My understanding is that RocketPool is both over-collateralized and fully decentralized. That means that the protocol holds not only the necessary ETH to cover the rETH but also RPL staking tokens that are automatically sold to cover any losses by bad validators. There are no admin keys so no one can rug-pull. Nothing is 100% safe and in theory I guess a contract error could cause losses, but it's entirely open and has been running for quite a while now with a lot of scrutiny.
I normally equate "good" to "credible neutrality" in the context of projects both on the infrastructure & application layer (think bitcoin, ethereum, alt-L1s for infra & uniswap, ENS for the app layer) and in that domain I think Ethereum's the most credibly neutral smart contract platform. I'm also invested in RPL and will invest in Cairo (when StarkNET mainnet launches) bc I believe those projects further that vision. Not really an investor though
Rocketpool's RPL token is an absolute sleeping giant. Rocketpool is the only truly decentralised staking pool, node operators can join the protocol with only 16ETH, the other 16 ETH that is required to become a validator, comes from stakers who swap ETH for rETH. The kicker is that to operate a node, you need to buy 1.6 ETH worth of RPL tokens, as insurance to protect the yield of rETH, if a node operator were to get slashed. This means the ETH/RPL ratio is what to watch. 1magine buying 100 RPL now, with 1.6 ETH, at a ETH/RPL ratio of 0.015, when Rocketpool becomes more popular (RP node operator earns more yield than solo staking) the ratio could be easily more than 0.1, which would make that 1.6 ETH now worth 10 ETH. a ratio of 0.2 would put that now at 20 ETH. I expect 0.1 - 0.2 quite easily over the next few years.
If you've got 32 ether you just need hardware capable of running the concensus and execution layer clients (anything more powerful than a Raspberry Pi will be fine), plus a 2TB SSD to store the chain on. If you've got 17.6 ether then you can run a RocketPool node, same hardware requirements, you need 16 ether, 1.6 ether worth of RPL and then the protocol will top you up the extra 16 ether you need from rETH holders. If you've got less than 17.6 ether then you should buy rETH. The ether used to buy it goes to node operators and so is staked in a completely decentralized way. The value of rETH will appreciate by 0.85x the base staking reward, with the other 0.15x going to the node operators. What you shouldn't do is use a centralized staking service like Coinbase or Lido. Not only do these represent a centralization vector which reduces Ethereum's credible neutrality, but they are also a threat to your funds. If the community has reason to believe a centralized service is an attack on the network they can be neutralized. This could be as simple as kicking out the validators, meaning funds would be safe but no longer earning returns, or it could be as drastic as a complete slashing, meaning all the ether staked with the service in question is burned. This is the risk that people often fail to consider when being tempted by the marketing and simplicity of exchanges like Binance and Coinbase, and services like Lido.
Do you think it's worse to have lots of 16 ETH validators than a few 32 ETH validators or what? If there's any way to incentivize >1 ETH stakers or distribution I say that's the way to go. Solo stakers (32 ETH) still have the option to buy RPL using their ETH rewards if they wanted. Or they can even not stake ETH and only provide RPL liquidity for an even higher APR... Solo stakers are staking *ETH* not because there are better opportunities in DeFi but because it's not as speculative as DeFi. If a solo staker has 2x the validators using Rocketpool's protocol, more people will get exposure to ETH APR through rETH in whatever denomination they want/can afford. This should be incentivized more beyond solo staking I think, and more than centralized staking. All of these *additional* rewards are coming from a secondary market anyway, which could be created by solo stakers (a solo stakers token) *that could* pump too giving them higher rewards.. A secondary token shouldn't really be relevant here, as it's not guaranteed or the purpose beyond Rocketpool governance. It does ETH in the hands of many. What is your critique?
stETH on Lido is thoroughly centralized. $rETH is the exact same thing only thoroughly decentralized. Rocketpool enables people with fewer than 32 ETH to run their own node. rETH tokens earn staking interest, and everyone earns RPL tokens which have been accruing speculative value fast meaning RPL stakers are earning more income than solo or centralized stakers at the moment. It's a good solution, and imo good to support decentralized projects when you have the choice.
Do not own too many coins. trading / transfer fees will eat your portofolio. I owned about 15 different coins between 2017 and 2021, and getting them to my own wallet in 2017 and all back to an exchange 2021 and trading them costs a lot. Some of those coins were not even worth it anymore. Tx can be expensive especially during a bull market. A good rule of thumb is having at least 1k per coin invested. Otherwise just invest in 1 coin. Personally, I am all in on ETH + RPL.
In Ethereum's case it's more of a technical limit. With too many validators syncing with each other the hardware requirements go way up, essentially it was either spend $100K on hardware to stake 1 ETH each or spend some amount to stake 32 ETH using any old laptop. It's simpler to democratize accruing 32 ETH in decentralized protocols like Rocketpool than it would be fiat dollars or using delegates. It wouldn't be as simple to accrue 96 ETH the same way either to achieve 100% at stake using as many validators as the max is now. There's also the nothing at stake problem. If everyone has their hand in equally, and everyone disagrees on an event, who else is left to decide who's right and wrong. If 2/3 of participants aren't directly incentivized they have fewer biases, and the 1/3 will have more to lose by acting maliciously in turn. I also don't imagine the volitility in a coin with 70-90% locked in stake being anything but insurmountable. You need somebody paying to use the chain or else it's just one big circle. Rather if *everyone* gets 1 the value of 1 goes down exactly in proportion, cancelling all rewards out. Voting isn't achieved through staking (unless by 51%), so it doesn't necessarily matter to decentralization if everyone gets a chance to stake by themselves or not. Nodes are mostly who vote, and it doesn't require any ETH to run a node. The *distribution* is already thoroughly decentralized also which the last 7 years of POW achieved. In the next 70 years there will have been as much new ETH created as there was in the last 7 years, but no mechanism for it to concentrate. It also won't be long until liquid ETH derivitives take over everything imo, once withdraws are enabled. Things like $rETH (that's ETH in decentralized staking validators that accrues interest *and* RPL tokens), making $ETH sort of obsolete. So 30% of ETH could be in staking even though 95% of people are holding and transacting rETH and earning staking rewards.
PSA/low key shill: with the Ethereum merge just a few weeks away (yey finally!) there will be a rush for people,e to stake their Eth. This is why demand for decentralised staking tokens like Rocketpool and SSV will increase. It’s happening now, RPL is at an ATH vs Eth while SSV is 70% to ATH. These will moon once a successful Merge is confirmed.
Valid points for all the methods that you mentioned given your distrust towards 3rd party services. You can buy rEth as stated in your post *OR* Rocketpool presently allows you to stake 16ETH in a minipool, (still a large chunk of change) without trading it to rEth. Also, they have plans to lower this to 4ETH coming in the near future, to include staking without purchasing any RPL tokens, and the ability to stake/unstake with shortened locking periods. Important to note that at any point in these methods, Rocketpool does not have access to your keys. If there was a problem with their service your gains would be slashed, but the Eth would be untouched.
>The point of crypto, *was* to create trustless p2p digital cash. that's why I'm here, personally. You can be here for other valid reasons, though. A system that sacrifices trust to get rid of more middle-men would not be a plus to me. PoW and mining is more effective at keeping the system trustless. PoS will quite literally have "slashing" baked into the code -- you think rich entities won't ever abuse such a feature? or that accidents won't happen related to this? You can't have a trustless P2P cash if you're always interacting P2B. It was only ever trustless when using your *existing* setup you were able to participate, but it's been a long time since. I don't believe POS sacrifices user trust, rather enhances it. The incentives are aligned for stakers to be **selfish** and safeguard their assets from slashing. Miners don't have the same incentive. A staker isn't able to slash other entities, they're only able to prevent it from happening to themself by acting with the (decentralized) majority. There's no mechanism in place for rich entities to abuse this because user nodes with nothing at stake are who decide whether that block/person is slashed or not, it's not decided by stakers, and every user should run their own (free) node if they care about what the consensus is. If accidents happen there's a 2 month or something window to resolve it before the validator exits their queue and settles their ETH giving the community time to vote on the best solution. >How does staking fix this case, exactly? The richest people will still own all the nodes that the plebs stake to, no? Ethereum a smart contract platform! People can stake in smart contracts. Rocketpool is one of a few decentralized staking services (and I'm sure two dozen more will exist in a year) that anyone can use to stake ETH in any demonination. People with 16 ETH (soon 1/2/4/8) are able to run their own node using collateral from donars. I don't think any people will use $ETH in the future when things like $rETH are interest bearing and the more people using rETH the more decentralized the validator set becomes. There are also talks about creating novel staking mechanisms. 32ETH is a technical limit on how many validators can communicate with each other, it was never meant to prevent people from participating and it was decided when ETH was still under $100. Now that's an obvious bottleneck they're looking at how stakers can validate arbitrary shard chains without validating the whole network, using 1ETH or less. This should give more people the chance at running a node all by themself if that's what they wish. >This is the way of the world IMO. Any fair system built upon such poor wealth inequality as a foundation will be subject to corruption by this wealth inequality. I think it's probably worth mentioning my biggest gripe with POW is the inflation. I don't see any problem with Monoro's miners getting tail emissions and collecting blockspace fees, that looks extremely sustainable to me. I just see a problem with BTC being 98% reliant on its inflation today, and its inflation that won't be there right after all this mining centralization has taken place. The narrative is now if you build an entire renewable energy plant you're mining 'clean BTC' and you're given carbon rebates (energy subsidies) in return. I think after a decade (3 halvings) of this the only people who can afford to mine at all are people getting these subsidies, essentially getting more in tax dollars than they are in block rewards. [Why would government do this? ](https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/05/07/marathon-miners-have-started-censoring-bitcoin-transactions-heres-what-that-means/) If no pleb is mining and I want to use the blockchain I need government permission then, or to hope other governments haven't enacted similiar strategies, indefinitely. Each halving pushes people out and gives government a tighter grip on controlling supply. ASICs are physical security tokens. If only there's some way to digitize the token to avoid all the real-world corruption we're trying so hard to get away from. Oh wait. >you are making it sound like all staking is created equally. Just like mining, those with the most resources matter most: if you have 32 eth or more, you run your own nodes. if not, you're in a pool like a pleb. Sweet. The payout is still practically the same whether you have 32ETH or 0.32ETH. Like a 0.25% difference. Rocketpool actually pays more out to plebs than solo stakers receive because RPL issues a secondary liquidity token. If 0.25% difference is too large it's a race to the bottom in development right now, the next app will take 0.05%, the next app 0.025% etc. There are no costs to maintain such a protocol so once it's deployed it can run forever on no fees. The staking market is still very fresh and will be a lot more competitive once withdraws are enabled. >is creating jobs a bad thing? I don't understand this point... It is when it's taking money out of BTC inflation and fiat inflation to pay for them. The people on either network didn't agree to do that with their money or they would have themselves. The more it's decided for them, the less of an opportunity they have to at all. I can either hold BTC for a year and lose 5% of my assets to pay for security or I can hold ETH for a year and lose 0% to security. I'd rather take my 5% and invest it in myself. If it was my choice there'd be absolutely zero subsidies on any mining farm. That's such a moot use of my resources when I'm not even using that chain. Miners turned into welfare queens from the last halving to this one and I can't guess what the next will do to them. If the government in the end has to pay for all these jobs and all the cleanup through taxation then yay higher GDP, but that's still not a net positive to the economy when the money came out of the economy in the first place. Just a redistribution from the guy who paid himself $1000/hr to the worker who makes $15/hr with all the difference trickling up. Not all jobs are worth creating. >I'm sorry, but not only is this not a realistic example, you have shown zero basis for your figures.... "$1k invested in POW after five years gives a (negative) $5720 payout after costs" what are you even talking about? you don't "invest in POW" you invest in hardware which can perform hashes on a certain algorithm. It's not a one-size-fits all approach. The entire benefit to the approach is mining is a hardware-backed DCA into crypto at the best possible rate over a long timeframe. Crypto can go to $0 but my GPUs will always have a use. Dogecoin can go to $0 but my ASIC can still mine Litecoin. etc. Crypto goes to zero and your PoS nodes are now useless deprecated software. Sweet. "You don't invest in POW. You invest in POW machines" Same thing, you knew what I meant. If you buy an Antminer S7 for $1000 and pay average electricity costs you'd make around -$3 to -$5 a day. The only way you can DCA into hardware is if your DCA amounts total over $5000 at a time to afford a profitable machine. $12,000 if you don't want to be screwed after a few months. ASICs aren't recycled the way you describe. They're thrown out as e-waste after one cycle, about 18 months, as they're obsolete. GPUs are similiar as no one wants to buy a 5 year old graphics card, especially not 100 at a time. If BTC went to $0 all the e-waste would necessarily be thrown out as Litecoin or whatever isn't profitable to mine today, and it especially won't be in a world where BTC drops to $0. If POS goes to $0 your node running off your laptop is still a laptop, or a raspberri pi, whatever, and it doesn't get regarded as e-waste. A miner with 1000 ASICs that aren't profitable is in a much worse situation. I also don't think it's good that if one large chain goes to $0 that means every pool on that chain has instant majority on any smaller network. BTC mining pools attack BTC forks constantly already. If BTC went away I don't imagine the equibilirum reset being all too pretty, just like what will happen when ETH merges to POS. All the ETH miners are going to scatter to networks 1/50th as profitable but 1/5th as profitable if they attack it and I can only assume they'll act in selfish interests. >I think I just don't like PoS and you don't like PoW. But I know what I would trust my money with given the history of projects. There are ETH developers that don't even have 10% of their bag staked because it's risky, mind you. I don't have my ETH bag staked either tbh. I understand this is probably the riskiest undertaking in crypto history and that pushes my risk tolerance. I'll wait until I can deposit *and withdraw* at least. I have no problem with POW. I mention above its profitability is just not sustainable. POW is also why the price can't sustain highs (900 BTC/day selling at $100K adds a lot of downward pressure). BTC maxis need to work very hard in the next few years on what they can build that people will pay (900BTC/day) blockspace fees for, before inflation runs out. And that work isn't being done because the price keeps increasing enough that utility is a nothingburger. I don't believe the price can double forever indefinitely like *so many people* do, so at some point its security will break and it'll be at a point when plebs have minority hashrate so no ability to fork. If users were spending as much on blockspace as they were losing from inflation the system would look so much better to me, but right now they're spending nothing on blockspace and paying through inflation. Monoro does it best.
Also, their discord is very active and they are incredibly helpful over there. It’s important to understand that there are two distinct ways to stake with Rocketpool. The simplest is just to buy rETH, either via Uniswap or similar, or at the Rocketpool site. This gives you 85% of solo staking gains. This occurs by altering the rETH/ETH ratio so is very tax efficient. The other is to run a Rocketpool node on your computer. This gives you 115% of solo staking gains, and also involves a second token(RPL). It’s much more involved but more lucrative and arguably more fun
1. Arguably yes, but may depend on other factors. Lido stETH has slightly more DeFi integration but is less decentralized. 2. Base APR is [4.2%](https://ethereum.org/en/staking/), Rocket Pool APR is [~4.03%](https://stake.rocketpool.net/) 3. Constantly, via a changing exchange rate at https://stake.rocketpool.net/ 4. rETH simply trades for more ETH over time. No rewards are "paid out". Check the "rETH / ETH Ratio Over Time" chart [here](https://rocketscan.io/reth). 5. You shouldn't need to sign up for anything. You can just buy rETH on a DEX like Uniswap, or exchange ETH for it at https://stake.rocketpool.net/ . 6. You'll most likely need to unstake for ETH, send that to a CEX, and then sell for fiat. If it's going to fiat, you'll always need a CEX of some sort. I don't know if CEXes will onboard rETH for direct sale to fiat anytime soon or at all. 7. Make sure you understand how Rocket Pool actually works; read through the explainer series [here](https://medium.com/rocket-pool/rocket-pool-staking-protocol-part-1-8be4859e5fbd) and understand how the DAO side of things operates, including the RPL token.
One good thing about ETH price tanking is that I get to reach my minipool goal and have more dry powder stacked to deploy than I planned. I've been thinking about slowly accumulating few projects for the next 1-2 years, replacing my Stables with ETH rewards once withdrawals unlocked and taking profits as they come. Here are my picks: * RPL (Reach 150% collateral) * CRV * COMP * MATIC * SNX * LOOKS or X2Y2 I'll keep my eyes on GMX, CAP, P2E and P2M projects in the meantime. what do you think of this plan?
The ones I recommend are: ETH (web3 frontrunner by a mile), BTC (this is the only crypto normal people have heard of), RPL (this is my gamble; I expect it to grow on top of ETH, eg, if ETH 5x RPL may 20x; I acknowledge it may also not work out). If you _want_ alts, which I don't think are at all required, I like: SOL, ATOM, SCRT, XMR
If you're actually interested in learning how it works, Google the rocketpool tokenomics articles the company wrote. There are 3 of them. You have mistaken how it works, rocket pool as a company has no control at all. It is a series of smart contracts, rocket pool itself takes no fees. They never receive your eth. It's pretty much just a way more gas intensive way to setup a solo validator that allows people to pool their eth together, non custodian entirely. Slashing events are covered by a collateral of the RPL token the node operator is forced to put up. All slashing gets taken out of the node operators 16 eth (soon ish to be 4eth), and any excess slashing above that gets taken from the RPL collateral so it is very very low risk for users of RETH. it's a pretty complex system and I personally think some of it is dumb as fuck, but they made almost no concessions on decentralizing the protocol and it is impressively non custodial .. they deserve kudos for that even if it can't currently compete with LIDO
Well... I'd go with RPL. It's kinda a bet on top of ETH. Most people talk about it's value as a ratio to ETH, and it's currently at .009 ETH/RPL. Some folks have models claiming that ratio will get to between .03 and .3 (see https://fervent-curie-5c2bfc.netlify.app/thesis/). I don't really believe the high end, but a man can dream. In any case, this is the closest I can think of to "safe" since it largely tracks ETH (see https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/rocket-pool/eth which shows the price in ETH has been quite tight since November) _and_ speculative since the ratio can fluctuate and many believe it will go up quite a lot.
Hihi - I think this depends a little on your intent. If it's fun/hobby, I'd suggest you find an alt community you like and focus there. For me, these are the Cosmos (ATOM/JUNO/OSMO/SCRT) and Rocketpool (RPL) communities. If it's as an investment, first it's important to have clear expectations. Chances are very good - at least 30% - that you will be down one year from now. My suggestions would be to go with ETH or BTC -- these are by far the least volatile (note - least volatile doesn't mean not volatile... this is a little like saying someone swimming in the pool is the least wet). Because gas fees are devastating to small sums of money, I'd probably suggest staying on an exchange. One alternative is to find an exchange that lets you withdraw to an ETH address on L2 (like Arbitrum or Optimism) - there the fees will be more acceptable.
Just about all my ETH is staked. Check out rocketpool.net for a couple of slightly different staking options: - Run minipools - only need 16 ETH + 1.6 ETH-in-RPL to kick off instead of 32 ETH - get 7.5% higher ETH APR (you get your full ETH rewards for your 16ETH, plus a 15% commission on rewards from the pool's 16ETH) - get RPL APR - Buy/mint rETH - can get APR with _any_ amount of ETH. Stay liquid which lets you (A) be responsive if something changes in the market and (B) use it in DeFi. - If you do want liquid staking, please avoid Lido's stETH - they are causing a dangerous amount of centralization in staking (see https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/2022/04/20/is-ethereum-staking-pool-lidos-growth-an-omen-of-centralization/); rocketpool is on the far extreme the other way and takes great pains to push decentralization at many levels.
LTC (kinda BTC's kid brother), SOL (best positioned to take #3 at the moment), ATOM (highest potential gain hub-and-spoke imo), RPL (I suspect this scales with ETH, and perhaps even like leveraged ETH). Also considered XMR, but very wary of regulation if I'm stuck a decade.
It is decentralised. I run a validator from my home. That said, I agree that any POS crypto will definitely not rival bitcoin when it comes to decentralisation. POS makes sense for ethereum because sharding will be necessary for it to scale, but transitioning away from POW is a huge sacrifice. Im impresssed by what’s come out the ethereum ecosystem: dex’s, nft’s, and some tokens like RPL and RNDR. I also really like cosmos and polkadot because these could bridge bitcoin and eth/defi.