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SurvivalCoin a project with a big future. Unique functions Stake and Swap.
Path Of Survival 🤺 real time , turn base strategy game , this is a game I would actually play well worth check out 👀
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> independent companies and projects How independent is a company/project if it gets paid by the algorand foundation to cover the costs for running a node? Imo it makes no difference if Algorand adds another 100 companies that way. Algo needs to move away from SRV whitelists and incentivize running relay nodes somehow, aswell as incentivize good behaviour by relay nodes. On a protocol level, not on 'the foundation pays your server bills' level.
If you say so, did you even read the thread I posted? Seems like your mind is already made up and not looking to actually learn about what relays do and that anyone can actually run one and connect their participation node to it. ​ >I've come across multiple otherwise well-informed people this week that think the relay nodes are permissioned. I can confirm they are not. I ran a relay for just over a week and joined consensus with a participation node on mainnet. I was able to send transactions and query the blockchain through the participation node connected to the unpermissioned relay. Silvio confirms relay nodes are not permissioned. Seeing this was what made me want to run one. Borderless capital confirmed they have been running one since 2019 in this video too. I ran it hosted on a cloud service as my internet service is a bit rubbish so I could not get the home networking to run it locally. It cost approx $400 to run for a week, so people are not going to run these for free hence the program to find new hosts and pay them is being run by the foundation which is now live https://algorand.foundation/news/new-algorand-relay-node-running-pilot-now-live Previous attempts to run a relay locally even on testnet or betanet resulted in my network connection getting DoS attacked as I didn't have the bandwidth. This could have been due to bad timing as testnet and betanet traffic can be quite variable. One area of confusion is there is no way to add your relay to the DNS SRV record, so how is it joining the blockchain network? The relays establish a separate 'gossip' network between themselves to send the messages needed for the protocol between themselves and participation nodes over this, SRV is only used to make first contact. The SRV DNS is just a bootstrap address so new or disconnected nodes can find the other relays and join the gossip network. There is no need to join the SRV to be part of the gossip network. Bitcoin has for very similar reasons has hardcoded IPs so a new node can find the network. Instructions on how to run a node as a relay, this includes setting the IP and port to listen to. This can then be connected to by your participation node The node config settings are here https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/reference/config/ Relevant settings are PriorityPeers \~ PriorityPeers specifies peer IP addresses that should always get outgoing broadcast messages from this node. On the participation node you can prioritize your relay by setting this to your relay GossipFanout \~ The GossipFanout setting sets the maximum number of peers the node will connect to with outgoing connections. If the list of peers is less than this setting, fewer connections will be made. The node will not connect to the same peer multiple times (with outgoing connections). This defaults to 4 if you want to ensure traffic is going to your relay from the participation node you can set this to 1. DNSBootstrapID \~ Specifies the name of a set of DNS SRV records that identify the set of nodes available to connect to. <network> will be replaced by the genesis block’s network name. You don't need to adjust this. I wanted to highlight this due to the confusion about what the SRV is for. It is for bootstrap, it is even in the name!
Correct - it would make alternatives to fossil fuels more competitive, and therefore promote competition in that space so the market can come up with better solutions than what we have today. I think ultimately renewables/nuclear/non-carbon emitting energy sources are the future we should aim for, and as we move from a less production-oriented economy to a more service-oriented one (see the [US GDP moving from <70% services to over 80%](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NV.SRV.TOTL.ZS?locations=US) in the last 20 years or so), emissions can hopefully be curtailed or even reversed with new technology.
Yeah, _if_ over one hundred organizations all agreed to censor, it _would_ be bad, which is why it (almost certainly) won't happen. And even If it did, the option to fork and use different relays would be explored (this is easily configurable on algod - relay discovery happens via a DNS SRV lookup which is specified on a config file). The social/human factor is an often overlooked aspect in the security layer, like the ETH hard fork or the BTC hard fork in 2012 (?) when an exploit minted way more btc than it should. The code is "everyday law" and the consensus of humans running the code/nodes (aka the ecosystem) is the supreme court. Back to Algo relays, an ideal implementation would be incentivised relays with staking and slashing and a subsystem to verify their performance and correctness, but that is complicated. Algo is 3 years old and has only picked up steam in the past year. I think the relay layout is fine for the time being. If you haven't used it, try it out, it is _seriously_ good UX and (imho) decentralized enough. Only comparable performance is SOL, which... Yeah.
“Running a relay is not permissioned. Getting paid to run one is. I've come across multiple otherwise well-informed people this week that think the relay nodes are permissioned. I can confirm they are not. I ran a relay for just over a week and joined consensus with a participation node on mainnet. I was able to send transactions and query the blockchain through the participation node connected to the unpermissioned relay. [Silvio confirms relay nodes are not permissioned](https://youtu.be/J9zef2BDtp8?t=2815). Seeing this was what made me want to run one. Borderless capital confirmed they have been running one since 2019 in this video too. I ran it hosted on a cloud service as my internet service is a bit rubbish so I could not get the home networking to run it locally. It cost approx $400 to run for a week, so people are not going to run these for free hence the program to find new hosts and pay them is being run by the foundation which is now live [https://algorand.foundation/news/new-algorand-relay-node-running-pilot-now-live](https://algorand.foundation/news/new-algorand-relay-node-running-pilot-now-live) Previous attempts to run a relay locally even on testnet or betanet resulted in my network connection getting DoS attacked as I didn't have the bandwidth. This could have been due to bad timing as testnet and betanet traffic can be quite variable. One area of confusion is there is no way to add your relay to the DNS SRV record, so how is it joining the blockchain network? The relays establish a separate 'gossip' network between themselves to send the messages needed for the protocol between themselves and participation nodes over this, SRV is only used to make first contact. The SRV DNS is just a bootstrap address so new or disconnected nodes can find the other relays and join the gossip network. There is no need to join the SRV to be part of the gossip network. Bitcoin has for very similar reasons has hardcoded IPs so a new node can find the network. Instructions on how to run a node as [a relay](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/reference/relay/), this includes setting the IP and port to listen to. This can then be connected to by your participation node The node config settings are here [https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/reference/config/](https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/reference/config/) Relevant settings are >PriorityPeers \~ PriorityPeers specifies peer IP addresses that should always get outgoing broadcast messages from this node. On the participation node you can prioritize your relay by setting this to your relay >GossipFanout \~ The GossipFanout setting sets the maximum number of peers the node will connect to with outgoing connections. If the list of peers is less than this setting, fewer connections will be made. The node will not connect to the same peer multiple times (with outgoing connections). This defaults to 4 if you want to ensure traffic is going to your relay from the participation node you can set this to 1. >DNSBootstrapID \~ Specifies the name of a set of DNS SRV records that identify the set of nodes available to connect to. <network> will be replaced by the genesis block’s network name. You don't need to adjust this. I wanted to highlight this due to the confusion about what the SRV is for. It is for bootstrap, it is even in the name!”
So the scenario you're describing is if the Algorand Foundation in Singapore was somehow attacked up by a powerful entity? Or maybe all its employees kidnapped and forced to convince the various stakeholders (universities, investors, tech companies) to decommission their relay nodes? Or do you mean that the software itself would get hacked and then passed along blindly to the relay nodes? Would you mind elaborating on this? I made some other comments in the thread. I was asked what I think would be the "ideal scenario". The first thing is to shift the control of the SRV records (the settings file with the whitelisted IP addresses that comes with the Algorand open source software) to the Algorand governance process. This way all Algo holders would be able to vote on new node runners and the compensation they should get (from the transaction fee), and also kick node runners out or decrease their compensation. The Algorand Governance process is still being worked on but the last two cycles (we are entering the 3rd overall) billions of $ worth of Algo have been staked as part of it.
>Algorand is entirely decentralized with no central authority or singular locus of control. Unfortunately untrue. Relay nodes are permissioned by the Algorand Foundation, and all network communications must traverse official relays. This places the AF as a singular locus of control, as they may de-permission relays. If the AF were compromized, all relays could be de-permissioned. Source: https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/setup/types/ "Non-relay nodes may connect to several relay nodes but never connect to another non-relay node." https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/reference/artifacts/#phonebookjson "This means that if you intend to connect to the Algorand MainNet or TestNet network, the relays in your pool must connect to a published Algorand SRV relay."
>Q21: Who are running relay nodes? >Algorand Inc, Algorand Foundation, Early Backers including universities and commercial entities, and the successful participants slected from the Pilot Relay Node Running Program are running relay nodes. https://algorand.foundation/faq >1. A node is a valid relay node if two things are true: >2. The node is configured to accept incoming connections on a publicly-accessible port (4161 by convention). The node's public IP address (or a valid DNS name) and assigned port are registered in Algorand's SRV records for a specific network (MainNet/TestNet). https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/setup/types/ And by "Algorand's SRV records", it means a record only the Algorand Foundation can add or remove people to. Thus, permissioned. Please do further research before investing in centralized coins. Permissoned relay nodes. Install, ask the Algorand foundation to add you to their records, and participate whenever they decide to approve you.
>Q21: Who are running relay nodes? >Algorand Inc, Algorand Foundation, Early Backers including universities and commercial entities, and the successful participants slected from the Pilot Relay Node Running Program are running relay nodes. https://algorand.foundation/faq >1. A node is a valid relay node if two things are true: >2. The node is configured to accept incoming connections on a publicly-accessible port (4161 by convention). The node's public IP address (or a valid DNS name) and assigned port are registered in Algorand's SRV records for a specific network (MainNet/TestNet). And by "Algorand's SRV records", it means a record only the Algorand Foundation can add or remove people to. Thus, permissioned. Please do further research before investing in centralized coins. Permissoned relay nodes. Install, ask the Algorand foundation to add you to their records, and participate whenever they decide to approve you.
>Q21: Who are running relay nodes? >Algorand Inc, Algorand Foundation, Early Backers including universities and commercial entities, and the successful participants slected from the Pilot Relay Node Running Program are running relay nodes. https://algorand.foundation/faq >1. A node is a valid relay node if two things are true: >2. The node is configured to accept incoming connections on a publicly-accessible port (4161 by convention). The node's public IP address (or a valid DNS name) and assigned port are registered in Algorand's SRV records for a specific network (MainNet/TestNet). And by "Algorand's SRV records", it means a record only the Algorand Foundation can add or remove people to. Thus, permissioned. Please do further research before investing in centralized coins.
>Please do not BUY any $SRV. The rogue dev from Serval Finance minted alot of tokens and is still selling them.
So you have to have the Algorand Foundations SRV record, which could be changed for example. Now Im not saying the AF would do that, but a suitability sophisticated attacker might.
It's actually somewhat hidden now. The github pages and old relay setup page are recently deleted. The process for getting into the SRV record required you to email algorand for them to approve you and your node location. It seems that they are trying to pivot away from that to a decentralized approach with their pilot program for relay nodes which may be why they've sorta covered up how it was done before. Google "are algorand relay nodes decentralized" to see about 4 months ago the relay nodes all had to be approved by the foundation. I have no idea how far along their pilot program is.
I can't find KYC required for relay nodes specifically mentioned in the white papers. Could you point to specific section? Or is this same as SRV records? Truly asking, I don't know anything, just trying to learn. Is this the same as SRV record? Something to do with DNS?
>A relay node uses the same software install as a non-relay node and only requires setting a few additional configuration parameters. >A node is a valid relay node if two things are true: >- The node is configured to accept incoming connections on a publicly-accessible port (4161 by convention). - **The node's public IP address (or a valid DNS name) and assigned port are registered in Algorand's SRV records for a specific network (MainNet/TestNet).** >Relay nodes are where other nodes connect. Therefore, a relay node must be able to support a large number of connections and handle the processing load associated with all the data flowing to and from these connections. Thus, relay nodes require significantly more power than non-relay nodes. Relay nodes are always configured in archival mode. https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/setup/types/ The relay nodes are needed for the network to function. The relay nodes are permissioned. The relay nodes require proper server hardware (ie not available to the majority of people). Looks like one of the better top smart contract platforms when it comes to decentralization, but "fully decentralized" is just not true. Some other points from this thread by another user: https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/rv0u98/algo_is_garbage_im_explaining_why/hr2sug4/
>A relay node uses the same software install as a non-relay node and only requires setting a few additional configuration parameters. >A node is a valid relay node if two things are true: >- The node is configured to accept incoming connections on a publicly-accessible port (4161 by convention). - **The node's public IP address (or a valid DNS name) and assigned port are registered in Algorand's SRV records for a specific network (MainNet/TestNet).** >Relay nodes are where other nodes connect. Therefore, a relay node must be able to support a large number of connections and handle the processing load associated with all the data flowing to and from these connections. Thus, relay nodes require significantly more power than non-relay nodes. Relay nodes are always configured in archival mode. https://developer.algorand.org/docs/run-a-node/setup/types/ The relay nodes are needed for the network to function. The relay nodes are permissioned. The relay nodes require proper server hardware (ie not available to the majority of people).
Basically you must have the Algorand Foundations SRV record to run one.
You had a question mark in your last post, I thought you were asking me. Maybe the developer docs are out of date but it still says "This means that if you intend to connect to the Algorand MainNet or TestNet network, the relays in your pool must connect to a published Algorand SRV relay.". My question is if that is now decentralized/permissionless.