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List of Platforms (Not Brokers) for advanced option trading
Toast Shows Improved Relative Strength; Still Shy Of Benchmark
Brokerages That Use Citadel / Virtu Execution For Orders Q1 2022
Brokerages That Use Citadel / Virtu Order Routes Q1 2022
New research: top 5 public companies on traffic’s growth over the past month
New research: top 5 public companies on traffic’s growth over the past month
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I saw Mercury as well. My execution platform shows time and sales (WEX) IBKR should show this as well. Do you have your smart router set for "max rebate" at IBKR? Based on what you have said, here is my guess. You tried to hit the .10 bid. IBKR sent the order to another exchange (to give you a rebate) vs the exchange the bid was on. MM's on that exchange didn't want to pay .10 so the exchange than sent the order to the exchange the bid was on. The MM's on that exchange then took the order themselves before you were filled. You then kept dropping your offer until it was filled at .06.
FWIW, here are a few fintechs rated 'neutral, or sell', with analyst targets below yesterday's close. Not saying buy poots, but maybe add them to your watch lists. PAYX, TOST, WEX, WU, ADP, EPAM, GIB, GLOB, SOFI, UPST
I have had $DFS since 20’ at a $47.80 avg and it’s been my best long term hold. Look into $WEX and and what services they offer. They’re like a credit card for semi fleet owners. Basically all truckers use them, especially long haul truckers.. and the amount of data they’ve collected on a large segment of the population is amazing. They essentially know what every trucker buys inside a truck stop, which convenience stores pay millions for. They also act essentially as a bank and payroll service.
Dash Prime is my main broker, [DASH Prime | Execution and Brokerage solutions for Professional Traders](https://dashprime.com/) and I execute my trades through WEX, [Home - WEX (tradewex.com)](https://www.tradewex.com/) I can not only direct route to any exchange (spreads and individual orders), but I can also use their smart routers which are very good. I have an IB account as well that I rarely use. At one time you were able to direct route spreads, but it was a complicated process. Not sure if it is still possible there.
Penny program rebates are much lower. They top out at .50 (BOX) and .39 on EDGX and ARCA. It is possible to see orders that are resting in the COB, but you need a broker/service that provides it. I can see the COB in my platform (WEX). I don't believe IB offers that, but I could be wrong. When you ask is IB checking multiple exchanges, they would have to actually submit the order to see if it was filled. There are no actual quotes on spreads by MM's in the COB, they interact with the spread after it is entered. You can set the IB Smart Router for max rebate, but that will potentially affect your fill quality. They don't make it easy to quickly change the smart routing criteria. Thats why I like manually sending the order to the CBOE first, which again is difficult with IB due to their extra direct routing fee. Suggest you play around a bit with the Smart router settings to see how it affects the fills on the stocks you trade.
my 401k, ira, and all employee RSU and ESSP accounts were with fidelity, so having one more in there was easy and i get investment options that WEX doesn't offer.
My execution platform (WEX [Home - WEX (tradewex.com)](https://www.tradewex.com/) has this information on Time and Sales. You should be able to find it on most brokers as well looking under option time and sales.
This is not true. While most retail execution platforms will do this, not all do. My execution platform (WEX) allows me to select open, close, or auto. Even using auto can be a problem if you are doing a spread such as a butterfly where you are selling 2 contracts of one strike and you are only long 1. If I select incorrectly or do a spread as mentioned, it will cause a mis mark. This is not generally a problem as the clearing firm adjusts in the evening, but can cause a problem is there is an early exercise for some reason. This isn't really relevant to the OP or most traders, but if you are with a broker that allows third party execution software, it can be an issue.
Anyone can see the COB with the right feeds. In my platform (WEX [https://www.tradewex.com/](https://www.tradewex.com/) )I see the COB and all orders in it and can trade with it. I am a retail customer. MM's in the pit will have much more information. They have upstairs support and will have knowledge about orders that are being shopped around. Basically, they will know "what's out there/what customers are trying to do" Looking at the COB will just show you resting orders. When you have relationship with a broker in the pit, you will get calls about orders being shopped. This is more than what an average retail trader will need/get. Here you are talking about trading groups, hedge funds or a very large traders.
I was watching the markets on my system (WEX). I can see the trades in time and sales. IB will let you trade in this curb session and show markets, but for some reason they don't show the volume.
When you subscribe to a COB (complex order book) feed, you can see all spread orders that are resting in the COB. MM's aren't allowed to rest orders in the COB, they interact with orders that are placed there. Since the SPX is single listed on the CBOE, you will see all spread orders in the same COB (with equities there are different COB's for different exchanges). And there are a lot of orders here. You would need a broker/execution platform/data provider that provides access to this. Mine does, (WEX). I can see these orders before the open and through out the day. I can arange them by spread type and by "edge". Edge is based simply on the midpoints of the individual options. This can be used many ways. Just seeing what spreads are offered/bid can be helpful.
This make absolutly no fucking sense! so let's say i use I.B or LightSpeed to trade SPX. what you're saying is with i have to pay $500/month to WEX so my order can be 1 millisecond faster filled or save me a fraction of a penny for each transaction? On top of that , i have to pay a bunch of mysterious misc fees to WEX. or i can just trade using LightSpeed with 1 pricing structure. I want to try out WEX but i dont understand the complexity of the fee structure. What exactly am i paying for?
Lol. I don't work for them, I don't care whether you try them or not. Again, what you pay depends mainly on your broker, not on WEX. WEX is just an execution platform, not a broker. So, if your broker was LightSpeed, you would pay whatever Lightspeed charges per contract plus the WEX add on fees for the platform and per contract.
so complicated . you gave me a long ass answer but bottom line is how much do you pay in commissions ? lets say you buy ATM SPX CALL. how much do you pay ? 65 cent ? 55 cent ? 40 cent? was going to try WEX until you give me this sale pitch.
You would need a broker that supports WEX. In addition to your brokers commissions, WEX charges an extra add on fee per contract. There is also a platform fee of a couple hundred dollars and data fees. Their data fees are expensive as they only offer "pro" data rates, not customer data rates. So, depending on the data you get (they offer a lot of options) You are probably in for $400 to $500 a month plus the extra commissions of around .10 a contract.
What are the commission fees for options on WEX? How much would I have to pay? How much do you pay? I'm considering switching platforms. Do you have a referral link? You seem knowledgeable and I'm interested in exploring new platforms
I meant the post to show what is possible when using these platforms. I Use WEX myself.
OPRA (Option Price Reporting Authority) includes these tags with all options trades. Depending on the Vendor that is picking up the data and sending it out, this information may not be included in the time and sales information you are seeing. My execution platform (WEX [https://www.tradewex.com/](https://www.tradewex.com/) ) includes this information in Time and Sales. There are about 20 tags that explain what each trade is. Page 18/19 of this OPRA info sheet includes a description of the tags. [https://assets.website-files.com/5ba40927ac854d8c97bc92d7/6022f0c988ba44016e1c7f22\_OPRA%20Binary%20Part%20Spec%203.5a\_020521.pdf](https://assets.website-files.com/5ba40927ac854d8c97bc92d7/6022f0c988ba44016e1c7f22_OPRA%20Binary%20Part%20Spec%203.5a_020521.pdf) With the tags you can tell if the trade was part of a spread, what type of spread, whether stock was involved, was it a floor trade, was it a cross, did it enter the exchanges auction system, etc.
I mean… Those brokers don’t use third party execution venues because they do things in-house. You provided no reason why that should be better than using Citadel/Virtu/… As an example, if Citadel had their own brokerage arm called MayoTrading, this brokerage would belong to your last group of brokers with DMA. But it clearly doesn’t change anything, because your trades are still going “through Citadel”. In fact, Wolverine is in the exact same business as Virtu and Citadel Securities, so I don’t understand why you’re ok with WEX but not with, say, Schwab. Same (kinda) goes for Merrill Edge. BofA is a market maker too, although banks operate in a slightly different way from prop shops like Citadel Securities/Virtu/Wolverine. I don’t know the other brokers particularly well, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in the same position.
Guess where WEX routes its clients orders? To Wolverine market-maker, no better in execution quality than Citadel, just smaller and as such less contraversial in the public eyes.
I woke up yesterday or the day before and was told by WEX, that boy "Jay" and Papa Elon both have "bad feelings" about the economy. And this guy says THAT?!?!? 🤔
Robinhood Charles Schwab (2 accounts) Merrill Edge Fidelity (2 account) ADP for 401(k) (2 accounts) WEX for HSA
I'm not familiar with DAS so can't answer any questions there. Routing can be extremely complex as you know. For example, you may be able to use the routes of your execution platform or your broker. Dash and Lightspeed will offer many different execution platforms other than Sterling. Dash has at least 12 [https://dashprime.com/#platforms](https://dashprime.com/#platforms) I use WEX [https://www.tradewex.com/Home/TradingPlatform](https://www.tradewex.com/Home/TradingPlatform) I can use the execution routes of my execution platform or Dash's. I would suggest at least giving Dash a call, they will answer your questions better than I could. No matter who you go with, they will give you some good information. I have never seen any lag in my orders. Their smart routes have many choices for what you are looking for, rebates, fill quality, etc.
I use WEX as an execution platform, they pass this information on in Time and Sales [https://www.tradewex.com/](https://www.tradewex.com/) But other brokers and services should supply it as well.
Missed $WEX taking a MASSIVE drop
My move for tomorrow, and hopefully for the rest of the week, is the same move I've had since EOD last Monday, and that is to do nothing. Fingers crossed I then watch FB and WEX grind their way upwards all week.
(pt 2 - it got long, sorry!) But anyways, let's run with your definition of simple alpha and your timeframe using the 20% stop-loss and compare it against the SPY during those time periods. * NDLS - [overpeforms the SPY during the period of the grant](https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/NDLS#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). * GIII - [underperforms SPY during the period of the grant](https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/GIII#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6MSwidGltZVVuaXQiOm51bGwsImNhbmRsZVdpZHRoIjoxMC40MzI2OTIzMDc2OTIzMDgsImZsaXBwZWQiOmZhbHNlLCJ2b2x1bWVVbmRlcmxheSI6dHJ1ZSwiYWRqIjp0cnVlLCJjcm9zc2hhaXIiOnRydWUsImNoYXJ0VHlwZSI6ImxpbmUiLCJleHRlbmRlZCI6ZmFsc2UsIm1hcmtldFNlc3Npb25zIjp7fSwiYWdncmVnYXRpb25UeXBlIjoib2hsYyIsImNoYXJ0U2NhbGUiOiJwZXJjZW50IiwicGFuZWxzIjp7ImNoYXJ0Ijp7InBlcmNlbnQiOjEsImRpc3BsYXkiOiJHSUlJIiwiY2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJpbmRleCI6MCwieUF4aXMiOnsibmFtZSI6ImNoYXJ0IiwicG9zaXRpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ5YXhpc0xIUyI6W10sInlheGlzUkhTIjpbImNoYXJ0Iiwi4oCMdm9sIHVuZHLigIwiXX19LCJsaW5lV2lkdGgiOjIsInN0cmlwZWRCYWNrZ3JvdW5kIjp0cnVlLCJldmVudHMiOnRydWUsImNvbG9yIjoiIzAwODFmMiIsInN0cmlwZWRCYWNrZ3JvdWQiOnRydWUsInJhbmdlIjp7ImR0TGVmdCI6IjIwMTgtMDEtMzFUMDg6MDA6MDAuMDAwWiIsImR0UmlnaHQiOiIyMDIwLTAyLTAxVDA3OjU5OjAwLjAwMFoiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsiLCJwZXJpb2QiOjF9LCJwYWRkaW5nIjowfSwiZXZlbnRNYXAiOnsiY29ycG9yYXRlIjp7ImRpdnMiOnRydWUsInNwbGl0cyI6dHJ1ZX0sInNpZ0RldiI6e319LCJjdXN0b21SYW5nZSI6eyJzdGFydCI6MTUxNzgxNzYwMDAwMCwiZW5kIjoxNTc5NTA3MjAwMDAwfSwic3ltYm9scyI6W3sic3ltYm9sIjoiR0lJSSIsInN5bWJvbE9iamVjdCI6eyJzeW1ib2wiOiJHSUlJIiwicXVvdGVUeXBlIjoiRVFVSVRZIiwiZXhjaGFuZ2VUaW1lWm9uZSI6IkFtZXJpY2EvTmV3X1lvcmsifSwicGVyaW9kaWNpdHkiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoid2VlayIsInRpbWVVbml0IjpudWxsfSx7InN5bWJvbCI6Il5HU1BDIiwic3ltYm9sT2JqZWN0Ijp7InN5bWJvbCI6Il5HU1BDIn0sInBlcmlvZGljaXR5IjoxLCJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsiLCJ0aW1lVW5pdCI6bnVsbCwiaWQiOiJeR1NQQyIsInBhcmFtZXRlcnMiOnsiY29sb3IiOiIjNzJkM2ZmIiwid2lkdGgiOjIsImlzQ29tcGFyaXNvbiI6dHJ1ZSwic2hhcmVZQXhpcyI6dHJ1ZSwiY2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJzeW1ib2xPYmplY3QiOnsic3ltYm9sIjoiXkdTUEMifSwicGFuZWwiOiJjaGFydCIsImZpbGxHYXBzIjpmYWxzZSwiYWN0aW9uIjoiYWRkLXNlcmllcyIsInN5bWJvbCI6Il5HU1BDIiwiZ2FwRGlzcGxheVN0eWxlIjoidHJhbnNwYXJlbnQiLCJuYW1lIjoiXkdTUEMiLCJvdmVyQ2hhcnQiOnRydWUsInVzZUNoYXJ0TGVnZW5kIjp0cnVlLCJoZWlnaHRQZXJjZW50YWdlIjowLjcsIm9wYWNpdHkiOjEsImhpZ2hsaWdodGFibGUiOnRydWUsInR5cGUiOiJsaW5lIiwic3R5bGUiOiJzdHhfbGluZV9jaGFydCIsImhpZ2hsaWdodCI6ZmFsc2V9fV0sIndpZHRoIjoyLCJzdHVkaWVzIjp7IuKAjHZvbCB1bmRy4oCMIjp7InR5cGUiOiJ2b2wgdW5kciIsImlucHV0cyI6eyJpZCI6IuKAjHZvbCB1bmRy4oCMIiwiZGlzcGxheSI6IuKAjHZvbCB1bmRy4oCMIn0sIm91dHB1dHMiOnsiVXAgVm9sdW1lIjoiIzAwYjA2MSIsIkRvd24gVm9sdW1lIjoiI2ZmMzMzYSJ9LCJwYW5lbCI6ImNoYXJ0IiwicGFyYW1ldGVycyI6eyJ3aWR0aEZhY3RvciI6MC40NSwiY2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJwYW5lbE5hbWUiOiJjaGFydCJ9fX19). * WEX - over performs the SPY but those gains have been erased (couldn't link it due to character limits). * LRMR - [underperformed the SPY during the period of the grant](https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/LRMR#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-). Obviously there's something here, but what I'm looking for is some stronger signal to say: * Of these 9 stocks, invest only in these 5. * Here's how much of your portfolio you should allocate to each.
Appreciate the points. My understanding of basic alpha for investing is just Return(you) - Return(baseline). This is also what Investopedia says and the wiki bot below lol. Obviously, you can include risk (which I pointed out that I didn't) and get a more accurate picture, but I always thought that was CAPM or something. Regardless, I agree with your point that I didn't include risk and you could (or should) to get a more accurate picture. Never seen that website before, but it's pretty cool. However, the proper calculation is using the date the grant was issued as the start date for each holding (not January 1st, 2017) and then I used 3 years from the grant date as the end date (not today) because most performance grants have a 3-year expiration. If you wanted to get more specific, you should use the expiration date for each stock as the end date. In practice, you would probably want to still be even smarter and incorporate some sort of stop-loss which would (possibly) increase the overall returns and (definitely) shorten the time frame. I haven't run this specific analysis, but at a quick glance you can see that a 20% stop-loss (for example) would get you approximately the following returns for each stock $STKL - 0% returns after \~9 months $MITK - 40% returns after \~9 months $GIII - 96% returns after \~24 months $BOX - 5% returns after \~18 months $WEX - 78% returns after \~36 months $TREE - 48% returns after \~9 months $NDLS - 150% return after \~15 months $HSKA - 0% returns after \~15 months $LRMR - 50% returns after 5 months About 52% returns with an average hold length of 15 months (verses \~20% for the SPY over 15 months). Obviously, this is a really dirty way of doing any calculations, but even looking at the chart you created you see the stocks listed here crush the SPY from 2017-2019. I think your criticism still holds though. Basically, more work needs to be done to 1) eliminate noise through more data and 2) figure out better ways to calculate the returns. This post was simply the first step :)
Appreciate the points. My understanding of basic alpha for investing is just Return(you) - Return(baseline). This is also what Investopedia says and the wiki bot below lol. Obviously, you can include risk (which I pointed out that I didn't) and get a more accurate picture, but I always thought that was CAPM or something. ​ Regardless, I agree with your point that I didn't include risk and you could (or should) to get a more accurate picture. Never seen that website before, but it's pretty cool. However, the proper calculation is using the date the grant was issued as the start date for each holding (not January 1st, 2017) and then I used 3 years from the grant date as the end date (not today) because most performance grants have a 3-year expiration. If you wanted to get more specific, you should use the expiration date for each stock as the end date. ​ In practice, you would probably want to still be even smarter and incorporate some sort of stop-loss which would (possibly) increase the overall returns and (definitely) shorten the time frame. I haven't run this specific analysis, but at a quick glance you can see that a 20% stop-loss (for example) would get you approximately the following returns for each stock $STKL - 0% returns after \~9 months $MITK - 40% returns after \~9 months $GIII - 96% returns after \~24 months $BOX - 5% returns after \~18 months $WEX - 78% returns after \~36 months
Hey OP - first off, I love your out-of-the-box thinking here and you got me thinking about this as an exploitable strategy. One thing that I did notice though is your alpha calculation - it seems to be calculated as **Return(stock) - Return(SPY)**, which is not the entire story. Take a look at the Wikipedia page for the equation for [alpha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_%28finance%29), where you need to take into account beta and the risk-free rate (which means you need to calculate covariance of returns between the stock and the benchmark). To take it a step further, if I had a [portfolio with equal asset allocation of your suggested stocks](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&timePeriod=4&startYear=2017&firstMonth=1&endYear=2021&lastMonth=12&calendarAligned=true&includeYTD=false&initialAmount=10000&annualOperation=0&annualAdjustment=0&inflationAdjusted=true&annualPercentage=0.0&frequency=4&rebalanceType=1&absoluteDeviation=5.0&relativeDeviation=25.0&leverageType=0&leverageRatio=0.0&debtAmount=0&debtInterest=0.0&maintenanceMargin=25.0&leveragedBenchmark=false&reinvestDividends=true&showYield=false&showFactors=false&factorModel=3&benchmark=-1&benchmarkSymbol=SPY&portfolioNames=false&portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&symbol1=STKL&allocation1_1=11&symbol2=MITK&allocation2_1=11&symbol3=GIII&allocation3_1=11&symbol4=BOX&allocation4_1=11&symbol5=WEX&allocation5_1=11&symbol6=TREE&allocation6_1=11&symbol7=NDLS&allocation7_1=11&symbol8=HSKA&allocation8_1=11&symbol9=LRMR&allocation9_1=12), I'd actually underperform the SPY (alpha of -4%). If, with the benefit of hindsight, [this is the ideal asset allocation with an alpha of ~16%](https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/optimize-portfolio?s=y&goal=2&benchmark=-1&benchmarkSymbol=SPY&constrained=true&symbol5=WEX&symbol4=BOX&lastMonth=12&historicalVolatility=true&symbol7=NDLS&symbol6=TREE&symbol1=STKL&endYear=2021&symbol3=GIII&symbol2=MITK&mode=2&comparedAllocation=-1&startYear=2017&symbol9=LRMR&symbol8=HSKA&timePeriod=4&historicalReturns=true&robustOptimization=false&historicalCorrelations=true&firstMonth=1&groupConstraints=false) * How would I know to overweight MITK and BOX, given that one CEO reached their goal and one didn't? * How would I know not to allocate anything to LRMR and WEX, given on paper, they seemed to have crushed it based on that table?
I believe CHPT is a home run. Largest EV charging, fastest growing sector next 5 years, SI is there, revenue growing fast qtr over qtr, solid OEM partnerships and more great new today with WEX! Also, infrastructure bill would catapult it! On support line. All the best all
CHPT and WEX just announced an extended partnership today that should make shorts nervous. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210922005990/en/WEX-and-ChargePoint-Announce-Plans-to-Ease-Integration-of-Electric-Vehicles-Into-Corporate-Fleets
WEX down 5.5%! this week. Earnings per share increased 90.91% over the past year to $2.31, which beat the estimate of $1.95. Goin’ in!!! 🐻
*That's promising! But there's no sign-up and the "request a demo" is a e-mail address for sales. So probably too expensive and much less promising.* Unfortunately WEX is geared more to a higher volume professional trader. I think it would be great if brokers offered access to the COB. The information is out there, but I don't know of any brokers that show it. *Yes, absolutely. Though now I'm curious how orders are matched, with both pennies spread and nickel single-legs submitted.* Matching of spreads is a bit more complicated. When you submit a spread it will generally go thought a COA, complex order auction. Here MM's will compete for the spread based on price. The CBOE explains it here [https://www.cboe.com/us/options/trading/complex\_orders/](https://www.cboe.com/us/options/trading/complex_orders/). MM's typically cant rest orders in the COB, but interact with them as the come in. The order could also trade against a resting order in the COB. It also matters to which exchange the spread is sent as each has different rules on payment for adding/taking liquidity. If and who buys your brokers order flow can also have an affect on how your order is filled.
Thanks for a very complete answer. > spreads can still be traded in pennies Thank, I didn't know that. I'll have to try it. > It is difficult for retail traders to see resting spread orders in the COB, complex order book. The CBOE used to show this information on their website, but no longer do. Argh! Of all the things retail complains about, I wish they'd ask for data to be more available and cheaper. > You would need to have some 3rd party software to see this Just software or do you mean they get some kind of data package and then show this through their software? I don't mind getting raw data that isn't displayed nicely if it is available anywhere at all (for free or cheap). > Some execution platforms such as WEX (https://www.tradewex.com/Home/TradingPlatform) show this information and allow you to see these spreads and trade against them. That's promising! But there's no sign-up and the "request a demo" is a e-mail address for sales. So probably too expensive and much less promising. > The advantage of constructing a multi leg option spreads in pennies is you potentially will need to give up less edge. Yes, absolutely. Though now I'm curious how orders are matched, with both pennies spread and nickel single-legs submitted.
For individual options to trade in pennies, their stock must be part of the "penny program" These are generally the more active stocks. Even if the stock is not part of the penny program, spreads can still be traded in pennies (with some exceptions such as the SPX which require nickel spread increments). It is difficult for retail traders to see resting spread orders in the COB, complex order book. The CBOE used to show this information on their website, but no longer do. You would need to have some 3rd party software to see this, as no retail brokers that I know of show this (some may show their customers spreads.) Some execution platforms such as WEX ([https://www.tradewex.com/Home/TradingPlatform](https://www.tradewex.com/Home/TradingPlatform)) show this information and allow you to see these spreads and trade against them. The advantage of constructing a multi leg option spreads in pennies is you potentially will need to give up less edge.
I mean get used to it, * MTGOX * BTC-E * WEX * CRYPTOPIA * POLONIEX Probably dozens more that were hacked or stole users funds
WEX is building an expensive looking campus around the corner from me in Portland Maine. Good feelings about $WEX.
Thanks for the tip, WEX definitely looks like something I should look into. I'm gonna talk to their salespeople/request a demo & pricing info, but any chance you could give me a ballpark for what the fees for a setup like that come out to? (Lightspeed + WEX + the COBs for a couple of the main exchanges, etc)
You can see the spread book as a retail trader, but it is not easy. The CBOE used to show their COB (complex order book) on their web site, but they recently stopped. I don't know of any standard retail platform that shows it. You will need a more specialized platform. I watch it through WEX [Trading Platform - WEX (tradewex.com)](https://www.tradewex.com/Home/TradingPlatform) . To use these more specialized platforms, you would have to use a broker that allows it, such as Lightspeed. I find it extremely useful. You will also need to pay fees for each exchanges COB's. In terms of quick spread execution tips in the SPX, I don't know of any. Normally the spread markets are extremely tight here, even it the individual option quotes are wide. I will typically start with a 1 lot spread and move the price until filled. This will tell me the best price before I enter a larger order. You do give up speed this way though.