EU

AnimatorHopeful2431

“Please think critically. The purchasing value of the dollar is what is important to me, not just as a consumer but as an investor. If I buy stocks, I want that purchase to yield a certain percentage so my portfolio grows relative to the currency I will eventually withdraw from the market.” This is objectively wrong. You’re saying one should invest outside of the US because the dollar is weaker now than previously. So then when the dollar strengthens and you have all your money in the EU, did you just lose on 10% of a possible investment. The US is a historically strong market with the strongest middle class in the world. You’re better off turning off the news, follow the numbers, and making some money. And why are you bringing trump into this? He has literally 0 to do with any point im arguing. Typical emotional response leading to stupid irrationality.

grandma0117

Has EU ever been cooperative about anything ? You have AI regulations before AI.. You know you live in poor region when the biggest companies are all pharmaceutical and hand bags for women 🤣 Not one single cloud service, phone, AI, space to talk about etc. One of the most violent and poor regions in the world today. Sweden have second most bombings in the whole world.. Say no more 🙄 EU also had most Isis terrorists in the world joining the Islamic state..

HomoAndAlsoSapiens

The European Community was itself a consolidation of three single organisations and treaties to have the same mechanisms and organs. In 1993 that consolidation was extended even further with even more previously independent organisations and treaties into the European Union (which didn't have its own legal personhood) while still staying technically legally separate. For instance, any EU law before 2009 was technically still passed by the European Community. In 2007 all organisations and treaties were replaced by a single European Union with full international legal personhood and the ability to pass laws in its own name with regard to all of its previous competences. So the difference wasn't really in what it was called, rather in the actual procedures.

GongTzu

It sounds like a bigger risk that EU will built their own software and stop using US.

Run2theHills66

Annual results are being released on 02/19. As always, the regulatory environment in the EU sucks!

mdedetrich

This is entirely the wrong take, EU makes the most advanced machines on the planet which requires tight co-operation with many EU countries (ASML). There is also AirBus, which was formed by all of the EU airline manufacturer’s getting together. The reason why EU used visa/mastercard is simply that there was no pressing reason to move away from it until now, it’s not that EU couldnt do it. In any case the EU digital wallet is on track

retard_trader

"He"  Bro we all hate mango but chill with the schizo conspiracy level shit. USD is trading against EU exactly where it was like 10 years ago.

1Logik

In the end the poor and middle class taxing payer is gonna' pay the price for greedy rich people - exactly like the last 50 years when rescissions happened - the American dream 😅 Printing money to raise inflation, so high debts are getting lower value - and peoples savings and wages are getting worth less worth. As an EU citizen I had to leave the US stock market - they are simply to dumb and unreliable.

Michael_Korleone

Last year I bought Amazon. Then 🥭 announced tarriffs and I had to sell my position at a MASSIVE loss. Last month I shorted silver. Then 🥭 announced tariffs on EU over his wet dreams about Greenland. Then I had to sell my position at a MASSIVE loss. This month I hold a big stake on UNH. Then 🥭 decides Medicare increase only 0.3% increase way below expectation. I lose over six figs in a day. What the fuck is this guys problem, it’s like as if he wakes up every day and looks at my broker activity and says to his staff in the Oval Office “he shorted, pump it or he bought, dump it”

Sufficient_Bass2600

The infuriating bit is that France requested that about 20 years ago. The initial reason was independence but also Iran. There was no way to make a deal with Iran without the explicit approval of the USA as they must approve all payments transfers. For years Germany pretended to agree before suddenly discovering a new reason why it was a bad/unrealistic/too expensive idea. So around COVID some major banks and clearing companies decided to go on a cross European projected. It was mostly French, Belgium, Dutch banks and some Swiss banks in an advisory/consulting position. The only major European bank not officially joining and active was Deutsche Bank. After COVID GERMANY tried to restart its economy and export. It suddenly discovered that Russia had build a syStem to bypass the US RESTRICTIONS and that it was inviting other BRIC countries and especially African countries to join their banking network. African banking is scattered but it is a lot more advanced on mobile. Also it isbtrying to structure itself outside of Europe and the US. Why would Gabon need thebauthorisation of Some African countries who were on US Sanctions list but not on the EU sanction list were pivoting toward China and Russia. The countries could not get access to Europe banking and financing facilities because of the US. Germany was losing export markets as Most heavy machineries equipment usually sold by Germany could not get financed by Germany but were now financed by China. Shortly after that discovery, the German government instructed Deutsche Bank to join the cross European consortium and be active instead of their usual blocking pest.

Spare-Afternoon-559

I would agree, but in a world where the EU is being treated as hostile, this was an opportunity to show an intent and strive towards protecting EU markets from the US consolidating "smaller" players. There are two cloud whales in AWS and Microsoft, Google is a shark that's on a bit of a frenzy. The commission had the stature to act in the interest of the EU as an official authority and they didn't even show the slightest bit of resistance

Icy-Sheepherder-7595

Yeah now go to the Tier 4 city where the Uighur slave camps are. China is on the rise but it's not all roses and butterfly's. The major issue I see with China is that most of their good stuff that they export is actually just ripped off of western IP's. Much of the car tech is ripped off from Tesla and other companies, the phones are the same story. The EU has placed 100% tariffs on Chinese EV's as a starting point. The western world isn't going to allow them to just copy everything we built and then sell it back to us for cheaper.

YT-Deliveries

My brother in Christ, the number of things that this administration has done on the international stage has started processes like: \* China ceasing all soybean imports from the US and instead sourcing from south america \* China getting closer to Canada due to tariff concerns \* The EU starting actual serious discussions about how to decouple from the US politically, financially and militarily Not to mention constant talk about invading this ally or that. Or literally kidnapping the leader of a foreign country. BLS cooking the books at the behest of the current administration would be the least surprising thing this month.

No_Economist7241

Hi everyone, I’m looking for advice on how to invest **$12,000**. Here’s my situation: * **Age / location:** 23 years old, living in the Netherlands * **Employment / income:** I’m a student (no full-time income yet) * **Goal:** Mainly to grow the money and learn more about investing * **Time horizon:** 10–20 years * **Risk tolerance:** I can take some risk, but I’m a beginner and don’t want to lose the money quickly * **Current holdings:** None (starting from zero) * **Debt / liabilities:** No debt I’m considering a simple strategy (mostly index funds/ETFs, maybe a small portion to experiment), but I’d like input on what you’d do in my position. Specific questions: 1. If you were starting with $12k at my age, how would you allocate it? 2. Lump sum vs DCA? 3. Which broad ETFs/funds should I research first as an EU/NL resident? 4. Anything important I should avoid as a beginner? Thanks in advance, I appreciate any guidance.

Sean_VasDeferens

Google "in which EU countries is it illegal to criticize a politician". Hint, it's a lot! So now politicians in the EU, with just the push of a button, will be able to economically imprison and destroy individuals, not just in their own country but anywhere in the EU. George Washington warned against long-term, permanent foreign alliances in his 1796 Farewell Address, advising the young nation to steer clear of "entangling" alliances. We need to begin to disentangle ourselves from the EU for the benefit of all parties.

fiirikkusu_kuro_neko

The fact I need to wait more than 10 seconds when my Upwork payments get transferred to the US bank account I use is ridiculous. I get to wait a couple of days for that sometimes, and then I do an instant SEPA transfer on Wise to my local bank account. EU banking is miles ahead.

kknyyk

Turkiye did it a few years ago and it has been used alongside with Visa and Mastercard. I think Europe, too, can do it. The main problem is worldwide adaptation, which Turkiye’s Troy struggles with, but EU can push that too.

Working_Monitor_2076

The EU is trying to do their own payment service provider. That is not bullish for the current US monopolies

Icy_Assist4467

Has anyone heard anything about Canada cutting ties with America? I have heard some rumors that Mark Carney has had talks with EU leaders about setting up a joint AI program, to bypass Silcon Valley. shutting down pipeline in to U.S. and sending crude to China. Basically shutting America off. Anyone else hear this?

Colloquial

All of EU said fuck that shit

Sellingbakedpotatoes

For now. If what polls show are correct, Nigel Farage is gonna be the British PM, the RN is gonna rule france and the AfD is going to the majority party germany. We'll see how well the EU chugs along when its 3 largest countries will be run by Europhobic parties.

Sweaty-Bid5675

I think the issue is that the US AI industry has a LOT of very obvious flaws in their business model, and a lot of these companies are so interconnected that it could create a very real domino effect I mean the list of the AI issues for American companies is MASSIVE 1. Most likely going to be shut out of the European and Chinese markets (Turns out that other countries don’t want the child p*rn manufacturing machines) 2. US companies have lost their ability to recruit top talent from all over the world 3. Exposure to legal and regulatory risk, think EU,GDPR, Copyright, liability for models making mistakes 4. Chinese models are much more computationally efficient and the US has softened export controls on top end hardware 5. Incredibly vulnerable to supply shocks (chips, electricity etc) 6. Probably the most important, short term moron C-suite people, who don’t understand the tech or how it will be implemented, are going to faceplant on implementing the tech. TLDR: Insane geopolitical/legal risk, no path to revenue and dogshit implementation of the enterprise scale

Bitcoin-Billionaire

DOJ + EU will fuck GOOG up

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

Chances of capital controls are rising, at least in EU.  https://x.com/i/status/2022273106920755228

tallyhoallaboard

Same as almost any other stocks at the moment really. Just look at a long term chart and it's not hard to see something's gotta give at some point. Siemens in particular has had no meaningful pullbacks in a year. I'd be jumping back in if it had one. Both have very high P/Es and would have to show absolutely spectacular results and guidance to keep going. Siemens is in large parts dependent on the AI trade and their windmills not breaking down, and Rheinmetall EU funding I think is mostly priced in, which is also why it has lost momentum. Both are good companies, though.

Punjab94

Spanish/EU inflation came in very cool in feb. Might be a forward indicator. But usd also tanked so might have pushed up import prices

WhisperFray

How about more interoperability instead of dependency? Here in Indonesia we have almost full ASEAN interoperability for QR code payments across Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, and Japan. China and Saudi Arabia are going to join in later this year. We can already pay with Alipay here though. As well as the 100+ other ewallets and bank apps across all these Asian countries. All this without touching the US at all. I’m hoping the EU can interop here as well so we can finally make currency exchangers a thing of the past.

Aggravating_Path206

Every single day my Asian and EU stocks are green, every day my US stocks are red. And red is winning, US is getting very hard to carry.

Bitcoin-Billionaire

GOOG is fucked because of DOJ and EU

Fit_Neighborhood9251

A lot of people here don't understand how bubbles pop and what happens after that and still think AI is in a bubble, and it shows. Those are the same people that think the DXY doesn't matter, and don't understand foreign investment into the indexes. SPY should have been 720-750 with 1:1 USD to EUR. SPY is 680 with 1:0,84 USD to EUR. With foreign investments of nearly 42%, SPY is objectively down more than 20%. The index is trailing with 10%+ even the bullshit STOXX600 EU index that is slow by design. There is no bubble. The air bled out of the bubble during the last 6 months. And there is worse to come. Stay strapped.

Miserable_Door_3538

What about the narrative of capital outflow from US equities markets due to dollar decline, US geopolitical positioning and the rise in tech sovereignty in EU, Canada and India? If the news printed this narrative, would you believe in it?

alderson710

VTI can’t be bought in EU genius. Not knowing that is actually funny.

Total_Schedule591

ECONOMY IS FIXED WITH ONE MOVE: With Russia on our side BRICS is dissolved, Russian currency and USD improve, EU dependency isn't needed anymore, China would be the only superpower defending Iran, and we already have India and Saudi Arabia as friends so it will make for a much easier strike to Iran and restore the dollar and the market goes up. Plus Venezuela is making a deal and Mexican president is allowing military action on cartels. It would be Boss's best plan to fix things quickly. 🦖

Spanisbro2

I'm tired of this slow bleed. Can we get a REAL Black Swan event? Please 🥭 declare war on the EU, or default on the debt, nuke North Korea. WHY NOT ALL OF THESE STUFF AT THE SAME TIME?

Colloquial

Prolly EU

Psychological-Egg561

Did it pass? Watching here from another EU country. That is scary shit!!

ToroLoco_TL

Thee drops always come up after EU market close and rebound before market open next day, so we europoor can never buy the dip 😭

TomatoSpecialist6879

There is no question, it's right there. The 43 day government shutdown fucked everything up; 1. Delayed economy data that's possibly made up due to it conflicting with many 3rd party economy data from other reputable research institutes and universities 2. Liquidity crunch post-shutdown as there weren't enough money for bonds and t-bills maturity 3. Yen-carry trade unwinding because of BoJ rate hike 4. Everyone from sovereign wealth funds, private banks, to institutional whales, hedge funds are dumping USD and US debt for gold 5. Retard-in-chief alienating every trade partner possible, especially the EU allies. It has been compounding and ongoing since end Oct after government ended the shut down. The average retail can go "It'S mOnThS aGo!!!", but the reality is it's simply been kicked down the road as there were many different mitigating factors and book cooking. I could keep going on, but if you're lazy just go look at bogleheads forum, many people there caught the gold rally thanks to studying how the top banks and sovereign funds has been moving from L3 and dark pool data.

NetAssetNeutrons

Look for deals in international equity. China, EU, Canada, S Korea, Brazil

LordFaquaad

I wpuldnt put the current market valuation on optimism. Theres alot of capital both foreign and domestic that continues to invest in the US economy because it has consistent structure while still providing growth. Other places like EU, China, Japan, etc. Have one of those 2 things but not both

Proud_Scientist_332

Unauthorized charges and fraud are still a thing in Europe. Fraud is not a unique thing to the US. I have no data that would suggest debit card usage in the EU is significantly safer than using it here in the US. Now there are better consumer laws regarding getting your money back in the EU but not that the rate of fraud is significantly less prevalent. 

The_Albertino

They lost $ because the EU is forcing insane environmental regs on the car industry so they have to spend billions designing electric cars nobody wants. China can flood wherever they want nobody is gonna buy em outside of China.

aklordmaximus

>In practice if foreign demand for treasuries stopped where does that demand go.... ? Good question, it would require a large liquidity pool of debt. Either China or Europe. For a global reserve currency you need three things: 1. Large liquidity in debts backed by a productive economy 2. Military power to defend the system 3. Transparent financial policy, open markets and institutional integrity. Since China does not want to open up their financial markets and provide transparency, they are off the table. For Europe it means generating large Pools of debt. Lagarde (president of the ECB) has stated that she wishes to repackage European debt into Eurobonds as soon as possible. But some states, most recently yesterday Germany, continue opposing this. >If it's other currencies then those countries can't export to the US and the US can't buy their stuff. Not true, unless the US throws a tantrum. The US can pay in the other currency for export for example. But it would mean for the US to acknowledge their new 'ordinary' position. As for your statement that China or Europe would lose, here you overestimate the US market. The US market is big, but not that big for both Europe or China. Don't forget that the EU is making trade deals left and right to hedge for such changes. It won't be pretty, but economically speaking Europe is in a way better position than the US if push came to shove (like a president taking over Greenland). >Also if they didn't buy we would just raise rates until they do Erhm. No. Raising rates is bad. Bonds are meant to be stable. What rising rates would mean is that the internal US market would buy them en masse. Since high rates (think Russia's 14%) mean that bonds are the best moneymaker in town. All other investments into productivity growth disappear. Meaning the economy enters a systemic downturn. Combine this with guaranteed inflation and further dropping of the dollar index and foreign investment will disappear completely. >The dollar In the calculation it was the dollar index, or simply the exchange rate between other currencies. The dollar might inflate or other currencies might strengthen due to demand. All in all, globally speaking, the dollar is worth less. Meaning that demand will fall and dollars will have to be absorbed by the finite dollar based economy. Meaning even further inflation. >But this will not happen You forget that just two weeks ago, this was a real threat. And then in the case of Greenland, it would have been an absolute abrupt change. The process is already happening but more slowly. It is indeed unlikely that it will be an abrupt change (unless like you said, a real threat). But look at the trends and you see the outflow happening over the periods of years. The US markets are not doing great. Only the tech bubble is propping green. The biggest pension funds in Europe (think of trillions) are selling their US treasuries since they no longer find them safe investments. And with the dollar index dropping, US assets are also less attractive. While anecdotal, I hear many amateur investors pulling out of US markets because the dollar is getting weaker and eats the profits away. For now the US markets can absorb, but there will be a point where it is untannable or where, say the EURO, is a much more attractive currency. You don't play half court tennis, a mistake the US often makes. It's just that the rest of the world didn't know they were in the game too. That is changing. When Europe gets their shit together (closely follow the industrial policy meeting happening in Antwerp yesterday and today) the playing field will change.

Kapnobatai

Spoken like someone with 0 knowledge of global fintech, have you not heard of SWIFT? What about Revolut? Europe is actually way ahead of the US when it comes to fintech. The Ethereum foundation is also based in Switzerland (not EU, but still Europe).

T13PR

I’m an EU citizen too who would like to see it happen. But the article and the comments make it seem like if we just decide something. It will happen and it will be a worthy alternative. But reality is rarely that simple. If I just decide that I’m going to be a millionaire then it will happen and I’ll never have to worry about money again. Well, it’s not that simple, right?

wondermark11

I am based in EU. Looks very promising: Lottomatica (LTMC) is the italian equivalent and has been slowly growing in tha last 18 months.

moldyjellybean

What EU or world ETF do you guys have? I’m way too heavy into SP500 and US stocks at the moment

10milAcquisition

I woke up in the middle of the night(EU)and was bored, decided to buy SPOT with overnight trading at 415. Well worth it waking up to 480 lol

alt2374

American tourists are absolutely not 10% of EU economy

DMT1703

Recycling? Eu are trying to push the "Made with EU" deal recently. Ite buy time.

Mario-X777

What there is to not understand, it is very easy to loose big share of international market, if for example EU will ban their operations and transactions in EU space. Or if users from there feel enough alienated to quit platform just out of spite. There alternatives, simply they do not have such critical mass of users, which could easily change in case there is significant impulse

LongQualityEquities

>Dig into annual reports and you will see most of rewards expense is covered by interest charged to card holders that carry balances. This is just patently untrue, the rewards usually come out of the interchange fees. The interchange fees are earned by the payment processer and the rewards are paid by the payment processor. This is why we don’t have good rewards in Europe: the interchange fees are capped at a fraction of what is charged in the US (0,4% cap versus 2% average rate in the US). If the rewards came out of the issuing bank and their earned interest then European credit cards would have similar benefits to US cards. The issuing bank earns just as much in interest in EU cards as they do on US cards.

Necessary-Shame-2732

Carny called out his bullshit in front of the EU at Davos. But other than that, being a good neighbour for like 150 years. Trump is insane

Merchant0fDoubt

Necessity is the mother of invention, India did it with UPI and I bet there is equal if not more talent in EU than in India. So I’m pretty confident that from a technological perspective it’s doable but from a bureaucratic standpoint I don’t know.

Brokenandburnt

>So a PM of a country might happily take the deal because it benefits them personally, That's why breaking up EU and supporting our far-right parties are part of official US strategy. Can't make individual deals with European countries, he has to deal with EU as a block. During his first term he went to a NATO summit in Europe, and desperately tried to make a trade deal with Germany.\ During the summits 2 days Angela Merkel had to explain to him no less than **seven times** that, no Germany can't make a deal with the US. Imagine living in a reality where the United States of America has pledged to fund far-right Think-tanks in Europe ...  I'm so, so tired.

pcultimate

I’m not sure where this claim is coming from. I live in Poland (which had digital payments first in EU) and I’ve lived in several EU countries and I’m quite sure I’ve used physical cash a handful of times in 15 years. And it was usually because someone gave me cash and I had to. Every single thing is digital here and has been for a very long time.

Parking_Reputation17

American tourists are ~10% of the EU economy, this means that money could very much go away. Best of luck with that.

Forte_12

US engineers aren't always from the US. Many immigrate here because they are the best and they get paid the most by being here. There are also local headaches like local labor laws in the EU. Or content restrictions in India/Pakistan. Or even security clearance requirements. Many reasons why you wouldn't want remote work in other countries. The point is there are many reasons to pay more for Americans.

republika1973

Oh I absolutely agree. But for both finance and tech, Europe has always had the money and know-how, now it has the motivation. The has been pulling closer together in all kinds of areas for decades. It will happen. Perhaps not exactly in the way we imagine or very quickly but in 10 years, EU consumers will be mostly using an alternative to Visa and MC which will very firmly be based in the EU.

Nutarama

All that said for investing the biggest defense companies in the US are all aerospace because the US basically blank checked stealth and air dominance. With no EU alternative to the F35, that’s not a place for gains. But in Europe the defense players like Rheinmetall are on a tear but might be overvalued. It’s all very speculative on what will happen going forward. Do wish I’d have seen the writing on the wall and invested in 2022, it’s up 1700% over the last 5y off Ukraine and the EU defense spending boost.

Phyzm1

I blocked you because of how rude you've been this entire time and arguing with strangers on the internet is a fools game, im actually curious how I keep seeing your posts. I told you I would apologize if you did, we were both right and both wrong on things. I deleted the post cause when I asked Google, as you told me to, if eu anti trust sued steam that was the article I got and didn't realize they did in the past. I like EU, I slammed your government not your people as you keep doing with Americans.

GruntledGary

Are you okay? This is about stock and investing. Are you really this unable to understand the basic motivations of markets? It doesn't matter if your orange Jesus is 100% perfect in all ways. It MATTERS how others PERCEIVE him and his actions. Right now, he has completely destabilized global markets and repeatedly said he intends to continue and that Europe is on their own. This pissed off the EU and related markets and has now motivated them to find alternatives. The financial institutions there read the room and realized that they can capitalize on market sentiment of consumers and offer an alternative. This is making lemonade out of lemons and an obvious and predictable result.

Shark00n

The deals were made inside the framework of tariffs **people voted for**. Which reddit seems to have a problem with. They are seeing huge investment in their country and are able to decouple, even if it’s just a bit, from other economies. Updated deals, interests, strategies and objectives are a good thing. The EU decided to tariff chinese cars by 50% by decree and no vote. All they do is to protect mostly german economic interests and french high value agriculture products which already receive a disproportionate amount of subsidies

Phyzm1

+6 social credits We are just playing semantics. European company still suing steam for 900 million what does it matter who. Sorry my post offended you, I forget EU uses our reddit, and discord, steam, Twitter, Facebook, windows, pcs, literally everything relevant. But yes its from 2021, which just means Europe wont stop suing usa tech companies, its a trend.

CleanReplacement1525

Thats just step 1. Wait until the new EU tax on all transactions comes next.

soalso

I find that comment interesting. We in Germany have a specific law against that. If companies hire non-EU citizens they need permission by the labor agency and pay the industry standard wage to those workers. The only exception are jobs with overall labor shortages, where the minimum salary criteria are slightly below the regular ones. This inherently makes hiring German citizens more attractive because foreigners would receive the same salary anyways and to some degree have cultural or language related barriers.

soalso

I find that comment interesting. We in Germany have a specific law against that. If companies hire non-EU citizens they need permission by the labor agency and pay the industry standard wage to those workers. The only exception are jobs with overall labor shortages, where the minimum salary criteria are slightly below the regular ones. This inherently makes hiring German citizens more attractive because foreigners would receive the same salary anyways and to some degree have cultural or language related barriers.

BagPitt

Again maybe 5-7 years ago but not anymore. Anyone who has seen a recent BYD, Geely or Zeekr model will note the software and hardware is a lot more innovative than just a few years ago. I would argue that more than Tesla, it was Apple that was instrumental in China's EVs. They literally created the entire software integration industry geared towards consumer electronics within that country to a point that now exceeds even US or EU standards. And what are EVs if not consumer electronics on wheels? Apple created this monster and then just decided to leave and not even pursue an EV. Which btw is the main reason Xiaomi built an EV in the 1st place: cause Apple was doing it too until they abandoned that project.

T13PR

You’re right in a sense that it looks easy. But the barrier to entry is way too high. It’s extremely hard and capital intensive to compete with the established actors. Why do companies and consumers in the EU pay Microsoft for Windows licenses? Just swap it for a Linux server, right? The devil is in the details. The more you look, the harder it gets.

OhJeezNotThisGuy

I'm guessing that is exactly why this initiative is contained to 13 countries, who are all presumably on board, and not the 27 in the EU or the 44 within Europe itself.

kahunah00

I think the US is all gas no breaks speeding towards this outcome. Canada is turning away from the US. The EU is following suit as is Australia. South Korea has reserves after the Hyundai plant incident. India seems to refute daily any deals the US claims its secured or statements by the US stating its no longer purchasing critical resources from US adversaries. China's thriving economically and growing its middle class while more and more Americans are falling through the cracks and living day to day on credit im not sure how it will be paid back. The US is much closer to this outcome than most Americans realize despite the president stating its "the hottest country on earth right now" with respect to foreign states wanting to do business and secure deals.

MZ603

Pretty much nailed it. This is my bread and butter. They can run with the NATO standards where it’s convenient - e.g., 5.56 & 7.62. Germany needs to get its procurement process streamlined. They should be on at least level footing with the French, but the end of Operation Barkhane & their inability to prop up MINUSMA made it clear they are no where close. With Russia’s actions in Ukraine, the muted US response, and all the other bullshit Trump has heaped on our allies, EU motivation is greater now. It really just further serves the argument that the current admin is weakening US interests globally. Security is a twofer, since not only does it result in Europe pulling away from US security interests thus diminishing national security (intel sharing is a big facet of that) and risking US hegemonic status, it also is going to be a blow to our defense industry. In part because they worry about backdoors into platforms, a big problem if faith in the US crumbles, but also just a pure Fuck You to the US. It will be very difficult to recover from this.

Moepenmoes

I wonder if $MSFT will have another dip soon-ish. Not because of AI, but because there is almost daily news of EU govs/companies trying to ditch Microsoft tech. Surely that must have some kind of panic effect on $MSFT at some point.

republika1973

Yes, but the EU is an extremely large market so they obviously feel the majority of transactions will not go outside of their. With the way the wind is blowing internationally, there is much more urgency. Why should European consumers and businesses pay American companies everytime they do transactions. This already exists on a per member basis - this is just bringing it all together under one system. I understand it won't be easy and that there are technical challenges but if the will is there, it will happen.

T13PR

A currency is a different topic. SEPA is a standard, going from a standard to a functioning product compliant with all regulations, fraud detection, contactless payments, card infrastructure, digital integrations, online payments and requirements for 24/7 availability. That’s a whole different topic. Remember, they have to do it cheaper too because no vendor will accept expensive providers when they can get the same service from the established global players for a fraction of the cost. Ironically, the more regulation the EU places on banks and payment systems, the more they cement Visas and Mastercards roles as global players.

BetterProphet5585

Bro they just corrupted their way into a duopoly, what do you mean this level of cooperation? Do you even know why you use them? Because they’re the only ones available. No better in any way shape or form, not complicated at all. The complicated part is integration in the market which they did by literally crushing the competition and being the first ones. It’s like going to the first chair maker and telling him he will have the best chair and monopoly on chairs forever… it doesn’t make any sense. Bring competition in, make the alternatives more convenient in EU, let’s see what happens lmao

T13PR

It’s not about the UX and the interface. It’s about infrastructure. Wero is just an interface running on infrastructure. In the end, they still need the rails Visa and Mastercard provides as soon as money needs to go outside their network. Also. Why should danish mobile pay, or Swedish swish use Weros own infrastructure when they already have their own. There are hundreds of small bubbles of networks all across the EU. Someone still needs to connect those bubbles to each other. Everybody wants to be that connection and nobody accepts anyone else to do it. Hence why Visa and Mastercard is so cemented in the world.

Shark00n

Forced negotiations? Japan, UK, vietnam and australia celebrated these deals how were thei forced? Why can’t you have the humility to recognize work? Do you think most of EU agrees with mercosur? This shit will in fact be **forced** upon us and ia a shitty deal that took 26 years to make.

Shark00n

Sad but true. EU took 26 years to finalize mercosur deal and it’s already being contested again before it even comes into effect. We have no large trade deals with japan or anyone in southeast asia

republika1973

True although I'm a terrible cynic nowadays :-D I think anyone who bothers to go into the EU Parliament is more of an idealist than domestic politicians. It didn't generally get the same level of interest.

Les7X

I stopped day trading days ago (I mean look at this shit), still my whole port is red except for NVDA and Apple. From EU defense to US AI, all of it. I'm heading out of the casino and cry

robertlt

Sure sure. Hey if you're so good at reading can you describe what this link you posted earlier says? https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/20/eu-fines-pc-gaming-giant-valve-for-antitrust-practices-on-steam.html#:~:text=The%20EU%20has%20fined%20Valve,to%20appeal%20the%20EU's%20decision

republika1973

The EEC evolved into the EU - it wasn't a different organisation, just an earlier version. A lot has been achieved over the 80 years.

railbeast

> why wouldn't the EU be able to attain a level of cooperation that could build something successful? European countries have one hobby: kill all other Europeans. Since the EU they can't do that anymore, so now it's just: cockblock all other Europeans.

chris_ut

So your argument for the EU being able to get stuff done is that a different organization got something done 60 years ago?

republika1973

I believe so. We've heard many times over the years that the EU will collapse and it's not happened. It's survived the Cold War and expanded. It brought in the Single Market and Euro - not least surviving the Euro crisis. It's done a tonne of positive consumer regulation (credit card fees, schengen, mobile phone roaming, etc) In reality it has to survive because if it didn't exist, something like it would need to instead. It will be slower and more bureaucratic than we'd like but eventually good things happen.

Longjumping_Kale3013

We also don't need all these banking apps that the USA has as it is pretty standard to freely transfer money between EU banks. I just use my regular banking app for this. But in the USA.... it's like there's so many apps to solve this because USA banks charge a ridiculous amount for bank transfers

republika1973

The EU does need improvement - it's clunky and slow. Technically having three preseidents says it all. Longterm, it'll improve. The current structures were designed for a very different era and far fewer members.

SchoGegessenJoJo

That sub isn't r/BoycottUnitedStates, but Buy from EU. People mainly aim at promoting and supporting Europe rather than boycotting something (although some 🍊 🐖 is trying really hard to change this).

pewqokrsf

I have to assume this is bait. If any national automotive brands are behind the innovation curve, it is Japanese brands.  Select Korean brand models are even just rebadged US brand vehicles. VW does have high cost Union employees and is competitive.  They also have economies of scale that only Toyota matches, and are still looking to shed tens of thousands of jobs as quickly as allowed because of those costs.  Outside of Germany, EU union labor is more similar in cost to US non-union labor than US union labor. How the unions negotiate automation rollout is also different.  German unions negotiate for automation, but with retraining and for reduced hours, whereas US unions are more defensive.

BowlScared

You have no idea how China works. Moment this goes online Chinese will be waving and showing signs with "this" also accepted here. Their integration with shipping to EU is already impressive.

redcremesoda

It’s definitely possible. Look at Airbus, which was created through EU cooperation. But that was some time ago and it probably worked only because a small number of counties were involved. For a payment network in which every EU country is involved, I imagine there will be a lot more decision-making hurdles to overcome— not to mention the technical hurdles.

ohitsthedeathstar

It shouldn’t take Trump getting the EU to want to be more independent.

gloomygustavo

It largely depends on what class you’re in. I’m from an upper middle class US family, we have a house in Salzburg. EU lives very poorly comparatively. Fun to visit tho!

nex2kal

20ish years ago the European Union was able to implement a common currency (the Euro) . Before that, every single country had its own coin and own value, meaning, one Euro had different value on each country. The implementation was smooth and sucesfull Furthermore, the EU is also a leader on Electronic Payment solutions. Try to search for SEPA and SEPA IP for example.

StickiStickman

We're talking about the EU, not the US.

LocusHammer

Right now it's just EU Zelle. "It has just begun" is a massive massive understatement. Which is what I'm saying.

robertlt

Oh i get it you are confused about the continent Europe and what the EU is. Well i wont bother educating you any more. It is very funny to me that you posted the exact same article i brought up without even reading it, realised your mistake, blocked me and deleted the comment and then unblocked me to post this. Very very funny actually. You must be big mad

Luckycire

SEPA is the important example here. Using SEPA already require all EU banks to work together with a shared calendar. EU banks are used to implement regulation update on their system every year, they ll manage upscaling wero just fine. 

BiscottiNo6948

They did but not as unified eu but on a country level. But before they can consolidate and merge, Visa and Mastercard simply bought them one by one. So now Macron is proposing building one for the whole EU.