EV

madagascan-vanilla

I can’t help feeling that BTC has had its day. We have moved onto EV’s now even flying cars and AI…is the Blockchain gonna be secure in the future with AI?

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Backrus

Re-entering seemingly the same move is often -EV due to momentum decay. It's much better to buy first oversold/overbought after volatility expansion and trending move instead of trying random dips. You can go as aggressive as 1m, but you can be patient and eg enter on 1h for daily higher low / lower high. Test it out.

cocacola0102

If I could borrow money at 2% to invest in the markets (not just bitcoin but stocks too) I'd be an incredibly rich man . It's massively +EV to do it. If you can't handle the volatility of bitcoin you could also just dump it in the S+P 500 and make an average of 8% a year after interest.

CubsThisYear

But buying long term is probably either positive EV or neutral. Doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee, but it probably works out. Day trading for 99% of people is -EV - you just have no chance of winning against actual professional traders. They are smarter, have better technology and probably work harder.

akfishermann

That’s because you haven’t researched them. EV is many years away from becoming mainstream steam mainly because humans haven’t been able to produce enough electricity to charge even a 1/5th of the number of cars currently on the road. Do your research. You’ll understand. Have a good week.

lifeanon269

Just because consumers don't receive a subsidy directly doesn't mean they don't benefit from it. I'd love to see you try to argue otherwise in the absense of so many of the fossil fuel subsidies to see where you'd be today with the total cost of ownership of owning a car that runs on said fossil fuels. To ignore this is fact is bias, plain and simple. The incumbent benefited from decades of subsidies. Just because consumers are receiving subsidies to help pay for the new emerging competing product doesn't change the reality of what the incumbed received historically. Furthermore, we're at a point where even without subsidies/tax incentives, EVs are now are price parity from a total cost of ownership perspective. So all total, in the end, the amount of subsidies and tax payer money that went toward either vehicle type is in favor for EVs when accounting for historical accumulated totals. As far as the road tax, again, that is a policy issue. In fact, many states already have flat EV registration fees to account for road use and maintenance. Often, these fees are far and away higher than what you'd be paying had you'd been driving an equal distance in a gas car. So these fees are more often than not causing EV drivers to pay a disproportionate rate toward the maintaincence of roads. And when the gas taxes are rescinded temporarily (such as right now due to offset the high gas prices) the EV fees are not subsequently also rescinded, further causing even more disproportionate fees to EV drivers. So I don't want to hear anything about this when it comes to EV criticism. As I said, this is a policy issue more than anything, and as policy often goes, it is poorly thought out. You say it isn't about policy, but then go on to talk about nothing other than policy in the regard. So you're not making sense there. Again, I'm not sure why you're harping on carbon fiber. Neither of my EVs have much, if any carbon fiber in them, and it isn't an EV specific material or problem. If anything, I'd imagine a vast majority of carbon fiber out there that had its history in an automobile came from combustion vehicles. So harping on EVs as a source for this issue seems misplaced to me. But I agree, we should do better at recycling across the board, as always (hence my original post about electronics). Your 80% recycling figure is the amount of material by weight from an individual car that gets recycled and reused. It isn't the amount of cars in circulation that actually make its way toward recycling. That number is far lower at about 55-65%. You keep saying you have facts, but I haven't seen much in the way of that from you so far.

akfishermann

Consumers, until the recent relaxation of red diesel and an occasional relaxation of road use tax have never received a single grant or tax incentive. I’m not sure where you’ve gone with that statement so I’ll leave it there. The road use tax is much more than a policy. It’s what builds and maintains all the roads used by vehicles. Mostly around .08/gl state and .38 Federal. More on diesel. EV pays 0 so far. Policy should change to require they pay thier share. So while policy is part of it, the result is far more necessary. I’m not sure what you’re referring to with ICE cars, but currently about 85% of all scraped cars are recycled, including the batteries. There is less than 8000 tons a year globally of carbon fiber being recycled inspite of it being able to be and recycled is half the cost of new. The rest is buried in earth with no know half life. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but I choose facts. And factually your opinion doesn’t hold water. Lastly, I’m in favor of EVs. No wars over black stuff and the currently unavoidable environmental downsides. To make EVs possible for even half of our vehicles we will need abundant nuclear power ( limit of our technology currently) a way to find out roads (policy etc) and a way to recycle a meaningful amount of the cars we build. Until then, they are an environmental menace.

lifeanon269

Carbon fiber can be recycled and the fibers can be separated from the resin, but that isn't an EV specific material. So I'm not sure why it is being mentioned here. As far as battery recycling goes, hydrometallurgy can recover over 90% of the metals in an EV battery, including lithium. The biggest reason why this isn't being done at large scale yet is because the number of EV batteries available for recycle is low...the reason being is because almost all of them are still on the road and fully functional. Multiple studies have also shown that the life of an EV battery is far longer than originally suspected. As I also said previously, battery technology will continue to improve and thus all these figures will also drastically improve. Why are you singling out the recycling of car bodies for EVs when that applies to ICE cars all the same? As far as tax incentives go, the amount of tax incentives that fossil fuels have received over the years is far more than what EVs have received. To ignore the tax benefits the incumbent has received while railing against incentives for emerging markets is blatant bias. A lack of road use tax is hardly an problem inherent to EV. It isn't like gas cars inherently have a road use tax via gasoline, that's simply a policy decision. Finally, as I said in a previous comment, even an EV driven using the dirtiest of power grid still produces less emissions over its lifetime than your average gas car. The electric drivetrain is just that much more efficient and so is the efficiency of centralized power generation when compared to the inefficiencies of an internal combustion engine. Ultimately, all your presented arguments fail to even the most basic of scrutiny.

lifeanon269

We took an 8 hour (500 mile drive) in an EV two years ago. We had a 3 car caravan with the other two cars being gas cars. We stopped twice to charge. Neither time were we waiting on the car to finish charging during our stops. In other words, the EV wasn't holding up the gas cars on our trip nor did charging add any additional time to our journey. Aside from road trips, all our charging is simply done at home. I've never had to wait in line at a fast charger. I understand some are in apartments without home charging, but for most people with a house, then charging at home is where 99% of charging is likely to take place. With that in mind, the user experience is far beyond the experience of having to go to a gas station to constantly fill up. I, for one, don't miss it one bit. We upgraded our electricity infrastructure as air conditioning demands became ubiquitous across America. Our AC is still the biggest draw in our house even with two EVs. We can do the same thing with EVs. I don't think it is an unsolvable problem, especially considering the very necessary benefits that come from it.

RetiredAvocado

I've heard about that, don't remember exact figures like CO2 out over life of ICE cars vs CO2 out over life of EV. Scaling looked like a bottleneck for a bit when EV sales have shot up, but they have cooled down in the last couple years. Charging time is still long and people already line up waiting at superchargers. Unveiling a spot with 8-10 stalls sounds great but there might be 8000 cars sold in the area and can overwhelm that spot. Also the actual KWh.. Gasoline is quite energy dense, 15 gallons is 300+ miles. Many EVs get less, but let's say they need 100 KWh to charge 100 KW battery for same 300 miles, will even ignore the heat and AC to DC conversion losses. Multiply that over how many EVs will all need to charge, let's say all of them at night, though more likely it will be people getting home from work stopping at a supercharger between 6-7PM. It's an added recurring demand the power plants will get hit with. Can they service the spikes in demand as waves of consumers dip their toes into EVs year over year? A family member had a Model Y and going to charge it was kinda fun for a while, you set it up, go in, get your soda or whatever. But after a bit, you're just burning time sitting in there watching the numbers tick up. And on 700 mile road trip stopping 4 times for 45 minutes.. They traded in Model Y pretty shortly for a gas powered compact SUV. Anecdotal experience off one family but to say people's complex (or even straightforward) lives dictate how adoption and demand will play out. If gasoline hits $15 a gallon it would make sense to see a slew of folks grabbing an EV and lining up a supercharger in no time.

Kind-Ad-6099

The low solar panel recycling rate is a challenge (that will likely be surmounted with increased scale), but EV batteries aren’t going to be an issue like that. Even the more common, lower value LFP batteries are almost always given a send life, recycled or even upcycled.

lifeanon269

Yes, but what powers the grid isn't inherently unsustainable either. It can and will be migrated to sustainable energy over the long run. It is happening now and that transition will continue to accelerate. Contrary to fossil fuels which will remain inherently unsustainable by their very nature forever. Furthermore, even in its current form, powering an EV off of the dirtiest grid is still less polluting than your average ICE car. Moving a car with electricity that was generated from a central power plant is simply a more efficient use of energy than powering a car with gasoline over the course of the car's life.

Key-Neighborhood7469

I worry about this with solar panels being 90% just dumped in landfills and the soon EV battery cascade that will outpaced stationary storage.

akfishermann

Ever looked at EV cars? Lithium mines, non recycling batteries and carbon fiber being buried all over with no clue of its half life. Those are way worse than any gas burner. But folks buy them anyway.

cocacola0102

Well it goes without saying if you're getting a loan with an interest rate below the expected investment returns that's going to be +EV. It's more like your own OP is the 'obvious' one, and everyone already knows this without it being stated. The problem is the vast majority of loans aren't at those favourable low interest rates. Personal loans from banks usually run at 8-15% and credit card financing is usually 20%. Maybe remortgaging a property can get you a +EV deal but while it's +EV the downside risk of having your house secured on it is much bigger now. Stiffing the creditor if you can will always yield a greater return than paying back interest either way, so it's still a better strategy if you can do it.

cocacola0102

With $450k in assets and being able to walk into a role paying the same in a years time, I'd take the year off. It's obviously not +EV as you'll lose out on a years salary + compounding, but you're still realistically quite a few years off from being able to quit entirely no matter what you do (probably around 8 years minimum and that's if you live off rice and potatoes, only want LeanFIRE, and save every penny into your retirement fund, which just isnt realistic for most people). It's enough years that you potentially wouldn't have as much fun doing it later (I'm mid/late 30s, and I can tell you right now I don't have the energy I had in my late 20s nevermind my early 20s...life's just more fun when you're younger and seeing new places and meeting new people feels more electrifying). I basically bummed around the world throughout my entire 20s and 'got serious' about work and making money from age 30. That's obviously a poor mathematical decision on paper, a strict analysis of the figures shows the opposite would be much 'better'. But your 20s years are more valuable and fun than your 30s, which are more valuable than your 40s which are more valuable than your 50s etc. That cute 20 year old latina is gettable at 28, much less so at 38, impossible at 48 unless you're paying her. Partying is easy in your 20s, by your 30s most people can't be bothered, and it's just plain weird at 40+. You're not earning a bad salary, but it's not such a ridiculous amount one could reasonably say 'just do a few more years then quit entirely'. Take the year off - $100k after taxes can be earned in the future with little fuss (I'd think differently if let's say it was $300k), but you'll never get your 20s back.

UrbanGrower187

There’s a good argument buried in this, but I think you’re making the conclusion too binary. The 5.1% Treasury number is basically right—the 10Y is around 5.2%—but calling that a “guaranteed real loss” isn’t. 10-year breakeven inflation is only \~2.35% right now. At today’s pricing you’re looking at roughly a 2.8% implied real yield before tax if inflation follows market expectations, and TIPS literally allow investors to lock in a positive return above inflation. I agree much more with your AI argument. Stanford’s data shows inference costs have absolutely collapsed, model performance is converging, and the US/China performance gap has become very small. Basic AI inference probably does become increasingly commodity-like. But commoditization doesn’t automatically mean AI equities go to zero. Falling prices can cause demand to explode. The value may simply migrate from the model layer into chips, energy, data centres, networking, software, proprietary data and applications. Same with Chinese EVs. BYD is gaining European share quickly, but VW and BMW haven’t exactly been displaced—VW was still Europe’s #1 EV brand and VW Group had roughly 26% of the EV market in early 2026. Where I think the Bitcoin argument is stronger is monetary rather than “everything else has nowhere to go.” If sovereign debt keeps expanding and investors increasingly want an asset outside the fiat system with a predetermined supply schedule, Bitcoin’s investment case gets more interesting. Bitcoin doesn’t need bonds to become worthless or the AI trade to implode for that thesis to work. In fact, saying “there’s nowhere else to go” weakens what is otherwise a much more defensible Bitcoin argument.

Impressive-Fig-9532

but i would also like to add that Tesla never took out Toyota,bmw,etc the traditional car companies. It ended up dominating its Niche area and then is now slowly taking away marketshare from the traditional car companies. Will EV eventually replace gas? who knows. I see zcash doing the same thing, it will dominate the privacy niche area and slowly take away marketshare from BTC and will it eventually replace BTC? who knows.

Impressive-Fig-9532

Yea, and Audi/BMW/tradtional car companies who had all the connections already going EV was a threat to Tesla's main selling point too. and it was all just a presentation when they announced it as well.

Hotwir3

I have, bought a Volvo EV instead 

Putblug1856

I mean, i find it kind of cool in terms of the technical aspect. But seems kind of pointless atm in terms of market value, right now it speaks more to the nerd in me than the crypto enthusiast. However, it feels like it could have a value. Have you checked oppurtunity outside of the US? I live in sweden and When it comes to the green transition, Sweden is actually way ahead of most of the world. Around 65% of our total energy consumption—including heating and transportation—comes from renewables, which puts us at the very top of the EU. Our electricity grid is also pretty much entirely fossil-free, running on a mix of hydro, nuclear, and wind power. A big reason why we are leading this shift is our long history of smart economic incentives and infrastructure: The Green Tax Deduction (Grönt avdrag): This has been a massive driver for regular homeowners. Right now, you get an automatic tax reduction directly on your invoice. It covers 15% of the total cost for solar panels and an impressive 50% for home batteries and EV chargers. It makes the upfront investment so much easier to swallow. District Heating & Smart Grids: Instead of every house having its own gas boiler like in many other countries, our cities use massive district heating networks that run on bioenergy and industrial waste heat. On top of that, our smart grid infrastructure has practically turned normal households into 'prosumers' who can easily produce and sell their own power back to the grid. Strict Carbon Taxes: Sweden was one of the first countries to introduce a heavy carbon tax back in the 90s. It made fossil fuels expensive early on, forcing businesses and industries to innovate and transition into green tech way before it became a global trend.So it’s really a combination of direct financial help for individuals and decades of high-level policy making that keeps us ahead. So this kind of invention would probably be very easier to find a lucrative function for here with so much government funding going to these kind of innovations and the sector in General. I mean our postal service(wich also includes denmark as well as norway and Finland wich also is world leading nations in renewable energy with shared goal) runs 53% of its whole fleet on fossile free fuels. The scandinavian goal is that our whole postal service will be 100% fossile free 2030. Thats all of scandinavia so 4 countries and a very large area so includes alot of heavy traffic and not just small postal viechles. And its in 4 years, so that should give you a pretty good perspective on the kind of motivation and economical sacrifice going on here. You probably cannot find an eqvivalent outside of EU in terms of government funding and it really dont serve a purpose towards a private market without a government "incentive" of some kind or am I wrong? If you can find a utility for your project i can almost promise you will have the best oppurtunity here in terms of value, maybe not size thou but this feel like it can do alot of good in the world we live in. If you just can get in to the right rooms with The right People and in the hands of a team with both the technical understanding and political connection. Especially with our "smart grid" i could really see a utility for this kind of verifiable on chain data.

AdhesivenessCivil581

I bet if you polled Americans none of them would know that we are only 5% of the population. The rest will be buying Chinese EV'S and putting solar on thier roofs. (except for Russians who are actually dumber than Americans)

somuchofnotenough

It’s overbought right now because of shorts being liquidated. Since a lot of this price movement isn’t organic I would want to see how it trades a few days the EV to lose a few % isn’t as bad as it going down to initial supports.

VERYHOODISH6900

This is the way of the Crypto world, however I’m just explaining that there are real opportunities available right now before market sentiment changes. Over trading and trying to catch a bid on every ticker that drops seems -EV Appreciate the comment though mate :)

captainorganic07

Perhaps. Though consider the energy cost of Bitcoin (on-chain) network were to match the Visa network in terms of volume. For the 20million vs 20billion transaction difference. (3 orders of magnitude btw) Bitcoin energy cost per transaction was roughly \~1,500 kWh, compared to \~0.0015 kWh which is a difference of \~1,000,000× higher. To put that **1,500 kWh** into perspective, that’s roughly: Enough electricity to run an average U.S. home for about 1.5 to 2 months or drive an EV roughly 5,000–6,000 miles. A Visa payment, by comparison, uses around 2 watt-hour about enough energy to run a 10-watt LED light bulb for six to ten minutes. Kinda nuts when you lay it out like that. Granted, Bitcoin is paying for the excessive security of the network. BTC is like Fort Knox and decentralized whereas Visa is like an incredibly efficient logistics company moving billions of boxes on its network.

Patrick_Atsushi

No, it's unlikely. It will likely boost the business of centralized exchanges and ETFs. Also related security & standard & insurance will face some review. It's like a brand of EV burns on its own, and it won't kill the EV market.

Top-Whole234

>The intersection of AI and crypto trading isn't about "AI predicts price" — that's the wrong framing. It's about using LLMs for what they're good at (pattern reasoning, narrative synthesis) while keeping math deterministic (Numba JIT indicators, computed EV, hard risk guards). The LLM analyzes. The code validates. Neither trusts the other.

Amber_Sam

FOR-EV-ER, Laura.

SaiiBoii

Well at least with crypto roulette there's a +ve EV given that you'd hold a coin long enough.

jaylinenj

Boxable energy efficient tiny homes, Dogy computer AI, EV boats and yachts, EV motor homes ,even a flying car ……

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RetNJ

“Crypto Twitter” is literally AI manipulating your decisions. It’s unfortunate that machine learning and neural networks are being used this way. Makes sense why an EV climate change ex-liberal would buy twitter, partner with a NYC billionaire with ultimate control and ties to the biggest Wall Street institutions. In the end they’ll claim it was to slow China’s growth.

OliverMonster1

I don't understand why Reddit is willfully blind to this point. Like those 80,000 IRS agents they will hire will "only" go after wealthy (more difficult) tax payers instead of more lower income ones that are easier to steamroll. Not to mention if you factor in deficit spending, what value does additional tax dollars have? Are we going to get more EV chargers like maybe 15 instead of 4 in 4 years? Or maybe they'll subsidize housing down payments so the average cost of housing can increase accordingly.

Amber_Sam

>At some stage not long from now, Satoshi Nakamoto is going to be the richest person on the planet. Nobody knows who Satoshi is, yet some people pretend to know how much money he has. No, he doesn't have 1MM BTC, that's just a myth, spread by shitcoiners. >Would you like to know who it is? No. >or would you prefer if he stayed anonymous forever? Yes. >Bonus question: what do you think actually will happen about his identity? Do you think he will reveal himself or do you think they will stay anon forever? Anon FOR EV ER.

No_Turn7267

I’ve conservatively convinced dozens. Over the past 5 years but none in the past 12 months. The key was to forget bitcoin and focus on what expected value is. I would map out a scenario like this. Let’s pretend I offer to play a gambling game with you. If it’s heads you give me $1 and if it’s tails I give you $3. Want to play? Yes because you have an EV of $2. Meaning if I flip 1000 times you will net $2 on average. Now let’s say BTC was at $30k. Let’s say there’s a 50% chance that goes to $150k (5x) in 3 years and let’s say there’s a 50% chance that it goes to 0. EV = (-$30k x .50) + ($150k x .50) EV for one BTC = $45k. Anything greater than zero technically makes this a good bet. Now you consider your risk tolerance. You still don’t want to bet the farm, but you’ll want to have something. With btc at $60k now, it’s a bit harder to make the math justified to a novice, but it was much easier when btc was $6k - $40k. I realize it’s

jetylee

We deal with this with the EV world as well. Which Grid? Everyone thinks the US is one big grid and then we hear "oUR GriD KaNT HanDLe iT!"

omg_its_dan

Everyone definitely doesn’t use leverage. Buying over time (DCA) and holding will always be the safest and most effective strategy for 95% of people. Way too many amateurs think they can beat the market and almost all will get wrecked long term. Using leverage or day trading as an amateur trader is virtually always -EV regardless of the outcome of any one trade. Anyone can get lucky in the short term but results will always revert to the mean over enough of a sample size.

Pretend-Hippo-8659

For EV?

Amber_Sam

58k FOR-EV-ER, Laura.

greenskeeper01234

The EV comment—I don't know what you're referring to, but I'm assuming it was a joke he made. And if it wasn't, please educate me with a source of Trump claiming to support the EV mandate (which would forcefully make Elon billions). And the $1 billion from oil executives, I'd also love for you to give me a source where that's a proven fact. That news came from The Washington Post and The New York Times, which was from "someone with knowledge of the meeting."

greenskeeper01234

Elon is still donating to Trump even though Trump wants to get rid of the EV mandate. In regards to "they all have their own interest in mind" — I find that very interesting, don't you?

OkBurner777

I agree with the risk sentiment, I’m definitely more bearish on the market this fall than bullish, tons of uncertainty after the huge tech run up this winter/spring. Naturally, I think that a massive expansion of tech - AI, chips, rockets, etc, has to be followed by expansion into energy. This is also supplemented by the geopolitical considerations you mentioned. Whether the tanks are ICE or EV, they’ll need a lot of juice. However, no energy stocks are being talked about, and there is lots of uncertainty in nuclear and renewables. Oil & gas stocks are good for old guys to park money in, but they don’t really move like growth does.

jetylee

We just ignoring the fact that they charged their EV too! Thats like $5 on top of this exorbitant bill!

TheGreatMuffin

lump sum = higher expected value, higher variance DCA (averaging) = lower variance, lower expected value The two main questions you have to ask yourself: can you stomach a drop down 10%, 20%, 30% or something like that the day after you bought? And are you comfortable with holding such a large sum in bitcoin in the first place (meaning, have you got a hardware wallet, have you done a proper backup, did you test your backup, do you know what to do if your device bricks, do you understand what a seed phrase is etc etc). If the answer to both question is a yes, then you might consider lump sum. Either way, it doesn't matter that much either. One argument in favour of DCA beyond pure EV is that it gives you a bit of time to get accustomed to bitcoin storage/transactions before jumping in with larger amounts. This is all under assumption that you can stomach losing all your money completely and your life will still be fine. Don't invest what you cannot afford to lose and all that.

Arkfoo

You can do whatever you want, but don't tell me Trump is going to change anything regarding crypto. He is a convicted felon, rapist and patholigical liar. I mean he just change his stance on EV because musk all of the sudden backed him after sucking off the Coal/Gas industry, the guy swings whatever the way he can get more votes or money.

nambrosch

Time for an EV

Strykerdude1

Find someone with an EV that goes to charging stations and offer them a better deal to charge at your house

jetylee

I bought a house with bitcoin. The idea of living the American Dream without a mortgage is a feeling I can’t even describe. At times I even feel guilty when talking with peers. I also bought an EV with crypto (and a muscle car, but that’s obviously gas) and the savings with an EV never getting gas was a no brainer. I still have plenty of crypto, but these two large purchases made total sense to me when discussing “best bang for your buck.” Try asking friends and family without giving away too much info, what they think it would be like NOT having two of some of the largest normal monthly bills that people have. They’d probably say they’d love it. Do it.

satoshiwife

He's mad because Donald trump doesn't like EV that much

excelite_x

Yeah I can see why you’d want to read that meaning from it, however: 1. Cheap energy is wanted by everyone, all of the producing industries, as well as consumers. So how does he want to do this? He talked about EV charging stations that were installed… what does this have to do with the topic? 2. That’s a point I’m not so sure about he basically hab both of them in the same sentence right next to each other… to me this only means he had someone to tell him don’t mention one without the other. This is the most basic approach to not mix things up if you have no clue what you’re talking about… have done that myself as well for this very reason 😂 just on different topics 3. So why not have anything at hand if you’re allegedly pro something? Means, policy wise he’s blank on that topic 🤷‍♂️ and this is my main concern. He keeps talking about how bad the others are, yet he doesn’t have anything to show for. When you go to a convention to give a talk, at least have a basic idea what you want to change and how to make an impact in the industry. Promising to draft up something after you got elected is simply not enough for me. Give me something proper to be bullish on, not empty promises. We all know how politicians are: they promise something and then it gets forgotten about. Provide a proper measurable policy so I can evaluate if it’s good for me or not. 4. The current administration basically ignored crypto and left everything as is, so they didn’t reverse what his administration implemented… that doesn’t really count 😂 you can’t blame someone for not Unding your own doing 🤦‍♂️ 5. I’m not so sure yet this is a good idea, I prefer to not have the government involved in this (at least just to take assets and block them). My issue with this is that this requires proper safety mechanisms and that if governments get involved some moron is going to take some shortcuts. But we’ll have to see and find out how this turns out in reality. 6. So another promise he can’t fulfill at all. Another thing he has no clue about. 7. And yet again, not even a concept on how to achieve this. I’d prefer someone who knows what is actually needed to push a topic when a candidate is talking about such topic, I want someone who at least understands understands that there are two basic concepts in crypto and how to make laws on how to push each. I want someone who is able to focus on the topic he talks about, not draft away into mud slinging at a former opponent who already dropped out already. Further, to me it’s super disrespectful to have an audience waiting for close to an hour, just to talk stupid crap on newsmax instead. This shows to me he has no importance to this topic at all.

ualdayan

Unfortunately I think it's been said too much at this point - people are fatigued with it. Eg - 'we need you to register your vehicle and pay annually, it pays for the roads, don't you want roads?', 'we need you to pay an extra $300 a year for that EV because you aren't paying the gas taxes, don't you want roads?', 'we need that sales tax percentage increase because the cost of everything has gone up and we need that extra money for the roads', 'we need that income tax money, don't you want roads?'. Then on top of all of that you have local/state governments handing over roads to private companies to run them as 'express lane' for-profit enterprises.

TheNextBitcoin

I was nodding along until used EV and I realized you no smart.

DrXaos

> I'd also argue that until we can find a way to source the large amounts of materials necessary for EV batteries in an ethical manner, The ethics of extracting petroleum is at least as bad as that for EV battery materials. And more and more of the EV battery materials will be recycled from old cars. Petroleum is burned.

me2be1989

I agree, was going to comment with saying I agree with some of his statement but exclusively disagree with the EV. That ev is a down payment on a real investment on its own. Ev is worst investment you can make. No resale value. Battery replacement garenteed in time. Buy a decent cheap car cash maintenance and gas is still going to be extremely cheaper then a EV tag price. 7 years later your car is still running on nickle and dime maintenance unlike the EV that needs another several thousand invested into it for a battery typically in this duration. Ps I also had 2 civic coupe manuals. I paid 1000$ for the 07 nearly mint it got tboned after 5 years of owning it. Then I bought a 06 $1200 great shape still running to this day. Id rather feed my Honda 30$ a month then pay a third the price of a nice home for a EV doesn't seem cost effective to the point hes stating.

Glum_Aside_8076

Batteries blow, less likely an entire engine fails completely then a battery for an EV

HamburglarsHelper84

I own a 2016 Honda Civic that gets up to 41mpg highway, and my dash shows my average mpg at 31.9mpg. I’m comfortable with that right now, and haven’t considered a hybrid or EV because replacing batteries sounds like a nightmare.

ItsAConspiracy

EV batteries these days are likely to last longer than the rest of the car.

Ch40440

People have no idea about the longevity of EV’s. Not a great investment until we further improve them

Glum_Aside_8076

Yep EV's are junk, we're not ready to rely on 100% on batteries. Too many cars are junk because the battery fails. I think solar seems legit, if I had an excess amount of money and a home I was planning to stay in I'd probably get it too. I'd probably also buy or finance a rental house with 2 apartments I can rent for another form of future income. I'd definitely buy more crypto in the bear market and make a killing next cycle though.

dfci

I think this is good advice, but I'd argue a hybrid is more practical than a full EV, especially plugin versions. A plugin hybrid is basically an EV if you're just making short trips around your local area, but also capable of long trips without needing to recharge. Also, they still work as just regular cars if there is some issue with the battery or electrical drive system. I'd also argue that until we can find a way to source the large amounts of materials necessary for EV batteries in an ethical manner, PHEVs are the more sensible and morally responsible use of the battery materials we do use.

obliterate_reality

Im on team early 2000s honda civic over a used EV

dumthac1

So now liberals are against EV Tesla, and crypto? Wtf is wrong with y’all?

Gr8tshag

And that would be Lam-bo an ugly Chinese EV.

Curious_Clive

Not really sure tbh. Just make as much money as possible really. I get that going balls deep in BTC for the next 5 years or so is probably the better EV play, but l am not sure l could stomach it if things went south. Although there isn't really any reason that would happen.

Tobye1680

That's your opinion. If you DCA into BTC, over time you could have random emergencies and liquidate some of your BTC to deal with those emergencies. What is the EV differential (between that scenario and holding fiat)? It's not hard to see that you will be in a better position holding BTC.

Tobye1680

I'm not stupid with my finances. USD decreases in value. BTC increases. If you pick a random time period, the EV is that it's better to store your emergency fund in BTC. The only caveat to this is if you're near broke already, in which case you have no business holding BTC anyway.

biba8163

> If you actually look for it, there is a ton of development on Algorand behind the scenes. It's 2024 and you are still falling for bullshit shitcoin hype? Did you not learn from the countless shitcoins with shitcoin hype, bullshit partnerships and scam use cases to that lured fools to buy their token and while coin value flushed down the toilet? > IBM ipartnering with Stellar to build the World Wire on the Stellar Network for open source financial services network https://www.signifytechnology.com/blog/2018/07/ibm-to-use-str-coin-on-stellar-blockchain > Cardano is going to digitize identification in Africa and IOHK is helping trace Ethiopian coffee beans through the supply chain. https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/04/30/cardano-in-africa-inside-iohks-ethiopia-blockchain-deal/ > IOTA's partnership with Volkswagen, Jaguar, Bosch, tracking data and earning while you drive. https://www.jaguarlandrover.com/news/2019/04/money-earn-you-drive-jaguar-land-rover > Vechain partnered with countless companies including Walmart and BYD (largest EV manafacturer in China) with supply chain and carbon tracking memes. https://twitter.com/BYDCompany/status/1037605045309591552 > ICON had a partnership with Samsung and a ton of other companies. https://globalcoinreport.com/icon-icx-partners-up-with-samsung-thanks-to-chain-id/ > Constellation Network to Provide US Air Force With Blockchain Security https://www.coindesk.com/business/2021/08/26/constellation-network-to-provide-us-air-force-with-blockchain-security-for-data-sharing/ > Factom partnership with the US Department of Homeland Security for immutable data ledger on multiple blockchains. https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/news/2018/06/15/news-release-dhs-awards-austin-based-factom-inc-192k > The South Australian Government conducting official election using a blockchain-based voting system (using Horizon State) https://micky.com.au/blockchain-technology-used-by-south-australian-government-to-conduct-election/

SC2000c

Ridiculous comments… I’m guessing you think EV car batteries turn to compost . Don’t be an idiot. Fiat banks have an exponentially bigger footprint than BTC. Read a book .

Ashamed_Town8911

They could, but Zypto is already doing it. Think about Tesla. They came on the market offering EVs, which could have been done long before by any of the dozens of legacy automakers, but they were slow to adapt. Tesla captured so much prominence and market share that they became a dominant force in the market quickly. And I believe the crypto market has much larger potential than the EV market. Also, there is a lot of room out there for several big players in this sector and Zypto is forging ahead. They will definitely be one of those players. Also is the advantage of being an ERC20 token. When BTC and ETH inevitably go up much higher, Zypto will get a boost from ETH on top of all of the clients they are adding on a weekly basis. Zypto may or may not become the largest company of it's kind, but regardless it has a LOT of growth potential.

the_lone_unlearned

Yesterday a private early stage solar EV company I am invested in a little bit announced they will take cryptocurrencies from investors. I was like oh that's cool, Bitcoin (and cryptocurrencies in general) making another small use case step. Then I went to the subreddit for the company and there were a couple posts about it slamming the company for this move, and all the comments in both threads were calling cryptocurrencies a scam and saying this is proof the company is dead. We are so early. It's gonna be a long hard grind, convincing most people that Bitcoin is the opposite of a scam. It'll probably take a couple decades, but society will get there eventually. By that time, people who didn't even start buying Bitcoin until the mid-2020s (now or anytime soon) are gonna realize they got in very early in Bitcoin's adoption. For every one new person who learns about Bitcoin there are probably 50-100 people who think it is a complete scam. Challenge is going to be to educate the majority out of their stubborn misinformed beliefs.

Big-Transition-3972

Could hurt productivity at all levels. Businesses take on debt to expand. Think Apple. Apple takes on debt for new products (eg EV that was a bust). If the risk of the debt was too great companies might not expand. It’d be better to keep BTC on the reserves than spend it to expand. BTC helps though that can afford to not spend it but hurts people and businesses that need to take on debt.

4lt3r3dR341ity

Las Vegas is a very hot and tricky spot to get good electricity rates. I found a few tricks, business buildings have different elect rates; I utilize this. When I mine at “home” with over 600 amps worth of juice, I typically do so with an EV incentive from the state where elect rates are cheaper 9/12 months of the year. (The other 3 months, we simply don’t mine at “home”). Additionally, I found incredibly cheap electricity with Dixie Power in St George Utah! If you’re able to set up shop there, I’d high recommend it.

Disavowed_Rogue

Don't forget to claim the rewards on your taxes, it is considered income. Also, the EV benefits are also awesome as there are not many cards that do that.

HighlightTiny9896

When the Satoshis Supply shock occurs. The world will start pricing goods and services in Satoshis. When that day comes, we will be able to buy a 10,000 square foot 21th century 3D printed luxury smart homes in for only 10,000 Satoshis you will be able to buy a new luxury EV for 1,000 Satoshis. And (1) million Satoshis will support A family for generations like one million dollars did back in the 19th century. Let's not forget the true value of Satoshis. "keep on buying and holding you been WARNED"

Frogolocalypse

Bitcoin subsidises energy for its people, which is why they've gone towards EV's in such a big way. China does it too to the same effect. That's why they don't like bitcoin mining. They view it correctly as using taxpayer dollars to subsidise bitcoin mining companies. The US, on the other hand, has almost no energy subsidies. Now that they're well on the way to phasing in renewables, they'll likely eventually have the cheapest energy in the world without them. And that's great for bitcoin.

CleazyCatalystAD

Tesla is an AI play; not just EV’s.

soliton-gaydar

Nah, just Bitcoin. Gas cars are plenty fine. I'd like to buy an EV, but I'm not exactly keen on doing the research yet into the pros or cons of the tech, so I'll keep driving on. Your solar flare is going to knock out the EVs, so you might be better served getting a bicycle. It's good for cardio, as you'll need it to plant your crops in time for the harvest, where you present them to the local warlord after they ritualistically sacrifice one of your people to appease their bloodlust.

omg_its_dan

Lol, that’s not at all what we’re saying. Learn how expected value (EV) works. Sure, holding long term is still “gambling” in the sense there is an element of chance. But considering the 200 week moving average has *never* gone down, and adoption is only increasing, the chance of BTC’s value decreasing over the long term is extremely low. It’s a highly +EV decision to buy and hold and doesn’t require any special skills or knowledge. The edges for trading short term are small even for experienced traders. When a novice tries to day trade Bitcoin, they’re almost certainly making -EV decisions even if a couple of trades do work out due to positive variance. Over a higher sample size they almost always end up losing.

Scottex99

Don’t get married to alts and their supposed utility. Regardless of what Amp can and can’t do, it’ll get fucked if BTC goes to $20k again or a black swan event happens. I’ve held hundreds of alts since 2017, most of which I don’t really know what they do and don’t care. I buy them because they are or might trend and try to use bankroll management to take profit at reasonable levels. BTC/ETH is likely to be the most sold +EV long term play

moneyevery3days

Tezos projects with real world use Werenode - an EV charging network with 450,000 charging stations across Europe. California Department of Motor Vehicles uses Tezos. Smartlink - web3 marketplace. Tezos has Etherlink and new dapps are in the making now https://x.com/nico_st_29/status/1796150512124875104?s=46&t=GXOW7Hx3cIJEwlWx9HumAA - Etherlink solves sandwich attacks https://x.com/s4mmyeth/status/1755563362166137100?s=46&t=GXOW7Hx3cIJEwlWx9HumAA and Etherlink is an actually decentralised Layer 2 EVM (Ethereum-style) network that's faster and cheaper than existing networks, doesn't require an L2 token. Because it supports solidity there could be a big increase in dapps coming to Tezos. Tezos is about to have a major upgrade next week which will introduce adaptive inflation, increase the % of staked tezos (reducing sell supply) and reduce block time to 10 seconds. https://x.com/tezberrypie/status/1792586081214333177?s=46&t=GXOW7Hx3cIJEwlWx9HumAA Here's a video explaining why Tezos: https://x.com/coindesk/status/1621245220850487298?s=46&t=GXOW7Hx3cIJEwlWx9HumAA

dannyboy1901

cost to mine vs EV would be the ideal metric for comparison

Aerocryptic

I agree for the most part. I wanted to know if the memecoins enjoyers know how to calculate an EV tho lol

neitze

Sounds like running it up at the table and losing it in the pits on the way out of a casino. Hopefully you still have some earning years on the horizon. Crypto was definitely big in the poker community back then, though I doubt 5% of the people engaging with it then and there actualized any significant returns. We will always hear of the few who hit it big, by some chance of pure luck or conviction, and wonder, "what if?" Such is the nature of comparison. I know I was using those funds to play and largely unconcerned with the price as it was treated as an uncensored medium of exchange. Transaction costs were a fraction of what they are now - so the concept of a digital cash was actually being utilized, with gas fees being a fixed tax on every on-chain transaction. Running a full node for Bitcoin core on my home PC probably saved me the headache and temptation to outsmart the markets by using intermediary trading platforms. Sounds like you had a high risk of Ruin in your margin trading. Were you calculating EV at the table and throwing BR management to the wind on trades? Were smaller markets being easily manipulated to liquidate traders? How much leverage are we talking, and curious what your risk profile looks like today.

BathroomEyes

Are you kidding? Sure he had a heard start but nearly every automaker has now entered the EV space (especially in China) and they’re eating Tesla’s lunch. That’s why Elon is executing panic layoffs. He was caught flat footed. “We’re not an auto company we’re an AI company now.”

-H2O2

Idk man, if pushing a nascent EV industry to become one of the most popular cars in America (and globally) was easy and just marketing and investments, why haven't other companies done it? Why haven't the big 3 automakers done what Tesla has done? Elon is a tool, 100%. But he had a vision, he gathered the right people, he convinced the investors to give up their cash, and he made it happen. If there were 100 other companies out there doing what Tesla did, I'd say sure, Elon isn't anything special. But there aren't, so he is. Again - definitely a tool. But a lot of tools throughout history have had an impact on the world.

-H2O2

I didn't realize that all he did was the Cyber truck. I know he's kind of a tool, but you can't really deny his impact on the energy storage and EV industry.

IIRiffasII

Biden literally just signed tariffs that would make EV and solar adoption harder.

TheGreatMuffin

> That being said. Is there any downside to starting to DCA now with small amounts every week? Or should I just be putting the majority of my investments into btc as a lump sum now. lump sum = higher expected value, higher variance DCA (averaging) = lower variance, lower expected value The two main questions you have to ask yourself: can you stomach a drop down 10%, 20%, 30% or something like that the day after you bought? And are you comfortable with holding such a large sum in bitcoin in the first place (meaning, have you got a hardware wallet, have you done a proper backup, did you test your backup, do you know what to do if your device bricks, do you understand what a seed phrase is etc etc). If the answer to both question is a yes, then you might consider lump sum. Either way, it doesn't matter that much either. One argument in favour of DCA beyond pure EV is that it gives you a bit of time to get accustomed to bitcoin storage/transactions before jumping in with larger amounts. This is all under assumption that you can stomach losing all your money completely and your life will still be fine. Don't invest what you cannot afford to lose and all that.

CryptoDad2100

I don't know why you're bringing up an EV when discussing crypto, or stating that you have a salary but are also retired, but it's clear that none of this is making any financial sense. Do you brother. If you studied BTC you'd understand why it's a big deal, but since you don't care to study crypto I don't really get the question - if there even is one.

hottogo

OriginTrail. Already in use and adding value to supply chains worldwide. EU just announced a new parts tracking system for Aerospace that will use OriginTrail, same with EV batteries tracking, train parts, UK customs documents. Big pharma companies working with OriginTrail to track donated medicines, largest US retailers in the world (Home Depot, Target, Disney etc) use OriginTrail to track international factory audits before products enter the US. So many incredible adoption stories in the real world.

HBAR_10_DOLLARS

They are building on the network. Seems like you are the one stuck in the old cycle. Cc /u/kazkdp IBM, see the November minutes https://files.hedera.com/2023-11-08-Singapore-Council-Meeting-Minutes-final.docx-1.pdf >IBM Use Case & Discussion >Shyam N. and Sumabala N. presented IBM’s use case, DICE, to the Council members. DICE is a comprehensive digital identity and credential ecosystem solution for governments and enterprises. DICE has broad industry application across the healthcare, travel, education, tech, and financial services sectors. Key components include DICE’s modular approach for broad applicability, developer friendly tools, and emphasis on data sovereignty, openness, and privacy. EDF use cases (3 of them!!!) https://www.dltearth.com/case-studies/edf Google use case (working with EDF above) > The "HEDGE project" was a collaboration between Hedera, Google Cloud, EDF, and startup partners (Sparklin, EmBlock). The goal was to create a secure, decentralized platform connecting small physical assets like meters, PV panels, and EV charging stations. This platform generated environmental certificates and facilitated related marketplaces, all while addressing the challenge of safely integrating data flows from objects into third-party application servers through potentially untrusted networks.

emailemile

Arbitrage betting or positive EV betting?

ianyboo

> with all the war stuff going on. You could just as easily attribute the cause to declining EV sales or the great red spot on Jupiter getting smaller. You could even say the war stuff going on was caused by the crypto market being down. You would be wrong in all cases. These things might or might not have anything to do with each other. Humans are ***TERRIBLE*** at determining cause and effect. That's why we invented the entire scientific method.

ResponsibilitySea327

Lololol. You don't know what they hell I do, do you? You have ZERO idea what running a large power grid is like until you step in my shoes. The plant I support is guaranteed to be several times larger than all the other plants you've been party to. I'll bet the proverbial farm on that one. You don't have the education or clearances to even step in those shoes. But your comment is more related to the price of tea than bitcoin. Of course any economic output requites power. And any power generation has a environmental cost. The point is that ESG is just a political leverage point and doesn't make something "green". It is all based in one's reference. A wond farm is arguably better than coal and an EV may be better than an ICE car in some references, but it doesn't mean that building an EV is environmentally friendly. SEER 16 is better than SEER 14, but you won't save the planet running a SEER 16 AC unit 24/7. You can consume your way to environmentally friendly, you can only mitigate future power growth rates. Take ESG politics and shove it.

avance70

it's like USA saying chinese are spying with their huawei phones and 5g equipment... it doesn't even matter if it's true or not, they are banning it because of the competition... it's gonna be the same for chinese EV cars, they will be banned because of spying or something, but the real reason is they're much more affordable than the competition

MtTime420

Have you transferred, say, Bitcoin into and out of a non-custodial wallet? It’s prohibitively expensive. Prohibitively expensive from a standpoint of per transactional cost with fiat money. Let’s take fees at a a bank for example - mine changes $6.95/mn (that is waived because of a direct deposit from my employer) and that allows me FREE transactions of my money (in/out) as many times as I want in that month. Another example: Schwab has zero commission trades. So why would I trade crypto when Schwab offers free trading (read: protecting my money via not extracting because of minor costs associated with overhead). Crypto transactions and payment systems are equivalent to the EV infrastructure in this country. It kinda exists. Just barely. But can’t compare to the oil industry and gas station market penetration. Even said another way, how about you go fill up your tank in your car with a crypto transaction. It’s as likely to happen as handing the gas station attendant a brick of gold.

antiquespaceship

China is officially dominating the US - they’re leading the crypto industry, social media industry, AI, and now EV industry

JAlan111

Btc EV wave of the future

MachaMacMorrigan

EV battery packs require substantial amounts of cobalt. Children work the mines. QED "*Amnesty International and the Congolese rights group Afrewatch published a report detailing deaths and injuries among the countless children working in small-scale, hand-dug mines*" https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/ev-cobalt-mines-congo/