MM

Annual_Juggernaut_47

Unlikely people sold Bitcoin to fund MM account. This is a lot of leftover stimulus money and assets people sold off earlier in the pandemic expecting a recession.

btcpsycho

I’m feeling confident because I’ve been a MM since Feb2024 my brother

Hunter-North

Bot buy and sell as a cheap MM so candles are flat. Occasionally owner will pump it so the big green. Typical for low liquidity shit coin.

wss-tosser

Dude, I took 50k against my HELOC, flipped it to 1MM on GME, bought land, PMs and BTC and now have almost 15 BTC equivalent in IBIT bought with excess cash plus loans against my 3 houses and 401k loan (since all i could invest in was index funds). Sell options for 5k incpme a month easy. And when BTC hits 150k ill have enough fuck you money to seriously consider retirement if needed. Fucking do it. Ladder in over the next month or three. Save some gains for taxes. Max the tax deferred deposits, 401k, Roth IRA, etc.

Glum-Wealth-6171

And just like that the pump has given back everything. Back to the crab. Thanks MM!

DeoVeritati

I think it was a moment of humility, passing it forward, and an opportunity to spread awareness. I was around this sub during that time and thought it was great. I didn't bother pitching any ideas on where money should be donated to. I'm not sure what I'd do with half a billion dollars. I'd like to think I'd set up scholarships or funds for something to establish a legacy as I really only want $2MM to sustain my current lifestyle in perpetuity.

coinluv

I'm older than dirt and still DCA Bitcoin daily. My challenge is to live long enough to see $500k and 1MM BTC.

Chad_chadersonIII

How much will google be worth if bitcoin hits $1MM? What do you think the S&P index would be at in that case? Or global equities?

Popular_Arachnid_176

Amen to that, I am fully onboard the DCA train. Just thought I'd try to give it some time for once, in case we may dip down to mid 90s again. But I agree, what does it really matter, the day we're well above 1MM 👌🏼

HolidayPlate5748

Personally I would sell 1/3. I would also place a sell order just under the CME gap at 105000. In case the MM wants to grap the liquidity there before going back down. Place buy orders laddering down from 98200 to 83500. That just a thought but you have to decide what is best for you. It is going higher in the long term I believe it’s just taking a rest right now.

Upvotelution

Retail has been consistently robbed for the last 5 weeks Retail has MM fatigue and macro fatigue This cycle's liquidity hunts have been abnormally aggressive

skydiveguy

No... the people that say "I remember ₿itcoin under $1000" will still be saying that when its $1MM.

Chambana_Raptor

>99% of people will do better by just starting as early as they can and simply not touching it.  If you NEED more cash, then so be it.... But "time in the Bitcoin market beats timing any market Citation needed. I welcome hard data proving my anecdotal hunch wrong; any good trader is always working to optimize their strategy, after all. >Feel free to show your $5k to $100k trades, tho.  Would LOVE to see those. I've done better than that. I used a really basic trading strategy for that point. But yeah, I can elaborate on the easy play: 1) Believe in BTC after the 2016 halving and subsequent run up from <$1K to $20K. Pick a little up in FOMO. 2) When the price dropped like a stone, you recognize it as a potentially good buying opportunity. Remember, BTC was less proven then so this is quite risky...you probably only want to put in a little at a time. Maybe 5% of your total investment portfolio. 3) Accumulate $5K in BTC at an average cost basis of $10K. I highly doubt it would be that high, but I overestimated on purpose. Now you have 0.5 BTC. 4) Wait for the 2020 halving on the reasonable hunch that it will trigger another quality run up. 5) Begin taking profits at ~$30K, which was a few months into the explosion in price ~Jan 2021. Remember, you don't know how high it will go. You believe in BTC so DCA out conservatively at first...5% of your stack at a time. 6) BTC cracks $50K and what's left of your 0.5 BTC @$5K is now worth nearly five times as much. You understand the halving cycle and human psychology...you would be an idiot to not take that deal. But you save a little just in case it goes higher. Maybe 0.2 BTC. 7) BTC crack $60K. You take more profit. Maybe you have 0.1 BTC left. 8) The market rebounds because of Covid stimulus effects and you see your last chance because you are not dumb or greedy. Drop half of your remaining so that you still have 0.05 BTC. You sold the rest of your 0.45 BTC by now at an average price of $50K. You have $45K in USDC in Coinbase that you can collect APR on while you wait for the next run up. 9) You accumulate once it falls below your initial profit taking point at $30K. And again, back load it as it falls further, as low as $15K. Your average cost basis was $20K but the bull run timing caught you offguard and you only managed to get 1.5 BTC before the run up in April 2024. You save your remaining USDC (remember this is an ultra-conservative play). 10) As was before, you take profits starting at ATH. You hold at the pullback, unsure of the market's reaction going into a tumultuous election in the U.S. But BTC rises again, and you take profits a little at a time until we crack $100K. Holy shit. You're rich! 11) DCA out at an increased pace. By now, you've sold 1 BTC and still have extra USDC and even 0.5 of your BTC. 12) Wait for a potential pop off to $150K. Hell, you've earned a little risk. Always keep at least 0.25 BTC in case we get $1MM someday. 13) Get ready to buy back in sub-$100K. Satisfied?

Crypto_Frog92

Look into stinkdex very strong MM holding it where they want it. It's the only token the creator of fartcoin dcas and holds. The lore is tied together.

Major_Cry_4146

Decentralized… retail holds 8-9% while large investors hedges and other MM own the rest. Like it or not it’s already part of the system, it’s just another form of the stock exchange.

AllCapNoBrake

Hopefully degen leverage gamblers will keep building walls of leverage lower and lower and lower for MM's to go grab up. Cheaper sats are always a good thing.

cleverquokka

? where else would you store $7M in crypto? ... coinbase? MM?

tridentgum

Why? What would the token even do or be for? 75% to the "dao/metamask fund, 20% to insiders, 5% for "community"? Meanwhile the token is used for nothing since MM functioned fine for years without it, and the only people making money from the airdrop are the people who knew you had to do one million of volume or more on Scroll or Canto.

heyheyshinyCRH

It's a phenomenon that *occurred*, it's not a guarantee. Pumps don't just happen magically, there needs to be interest for MM's to push price around and interest is dying

user_name_checks_out

Thank you for the anecdotes. If I ever risk a big sale of bitcoin, I hope that, if it goes wrong, I can at least get my funds back (in whatever currency) eventually. I bookmarked a post on here a while back from somebody who had upward of £1MM frozen by HSBC, I'll try and dig it up. I wonder if they're still waiting.

thistimelineisweird

The more BTC goes up, the lower the overall return is likely to be. I'm not envisioning a quick run to 200k, 500k, or 1MM here any time soon. How many quarters actually was it to 100k Q4 2021, anyway, like,... 11? 12? Meanwhile, some alts very will could double by Q4. This is a risk vs reward thing. As long as BTC outpaces the stock market, everyone invested wins. But some people want a little more risk exposure. Others want a lot of more risk exposure.

wolfofballsstreet

You should reply to your post and say you were 2 years early. 7.39BTC should be at around $2MM-$3MM by Dec 8 2027.

DarthBen_in_Chicago

No it’s like 0.00011MM (let’s go bigger / smaller)

skydiveguy

What's even funnier is that now they are saying its worth $10,000 when thy used to say it was "pupil mania" when it was at $10,000 We ar making progress. I cant wait for "₿itcoin is going to drop below $1MM and probably go to $200K" posts

IntrepidFarmer5666

I really don’t see a point in crypto at all the way they use automated market makers to secure profit and rug pull this is all controlled by algos to never let you profit as much as they do you have to have near perfect timing to exit before they start selling and bring pump exactly back to where it was before check out LPT Even if crypto suddenly has a bull run and alts go up they still would take forever for them to return to their previous levels only a couple months ago so everyone is basically red on alts except the MM who buy everything so when they pump they are in the green and you are break even  Options on any stock are so much easier and make way more money while not being full of scams so I recommend everyone run as far away from this garbage as you can I’m only waiting until I can break even from buying a FUCKING WEEK AGO All hail the scam economy !

InterestingFee885

You’re completely deluded. $10MM * 21mm coins = $210 Trillion. The entire global economy is $115.5T

UrbanCrusader24

Don’t get slighted by his liquidation zone. He was using 40-50x leverage, all the MM doing is liquidating high leveraged positions, and he happened to be in that boat

Upvotelution

Lol yeh, trump farts, markets dump, trump says oops excuse me and they recover It's not Trump, Trump is cover for MMs Trump may be irresponsible with his speech but unless he has algos/bots running in numerous markets, it's not him Exchanges run a business, they can't afford to leave hundreds of millions/billions running as charts go in either direction Get familiar with liquidity heat maps, it may seem like a coincidence once but when you regularly observe, you can see how deliberate it is. If liquidity pools are below market price, a trump tweet is a great excuse/cover, especially when you add in the mongoloid KOLs on CT and it spirals quickly. The inevitable counter tweet (delays on tariffs/call with Musk) and general traders, eager for some mental bull run, don't even hesitate Truth is, crypto hasn't been 'adopted' its been taken over. Retail are targets, we're liquidity, we're constantly getting played, it's heavily weighted against us. The more I avoid thinking like retail, the more I think like an MM, the greener my trades get

bologna_burrito

You're not going to get good financial advice in a crypto sub. I'd recommend asking in one of the investing subs. I don't know the rest of your financial situation but ~$1MM after taxes (assuming you sold now and don't continue to hold Bitcoin when it drops back down again) isn't really enough to retire by itself.

lovemyhawks

Yep, he's likely just fine. To his credit, I wouldn't stop trying to find a $840MM needle if I knew where the haystack was.

Pyryn

Except that one time I had a random $2000 in 1inch show up in my MM wallet as they were giving out tokens to people who were actively trading Defi or something. That one, singular time, it was real. But all other times, yes - if it seems too good to be true, it probably is

rgnet1

This headline calls it a "$400MM hack" as if Coinbase lost this in actual holdings. I don't see that they did. They lost customer data and are estimating remediation costs between $180-400MM. This obviously includes the $20MM reward offered to apprehend the criminals, but I don't know what the rest is? How much they anticipate paying customers after lawsuits are filed for negligence and possibly proven losses?

CDPCoin

In the next 2-3 yrs…. $3MM in 5…. $30MM in the next 15

Competitive_Ebb_4124

Different exchanges, different markets. Arbitraging between isn't even remotely fast and still mostly done by MMs anyway. And bps based profits aren't huge. Every order book exchange works with a MM, who almost always take the other side of a trade and hedge them out across markets. Hyperliquid is like 3B daily. And the order depth isn't astronomical. There's like 3 big crypto market makers, who are on every market, providing liquidity for every token, paid for by the issuers, sometimes in extremely destructive options, making an absolute killing. I cba to go into details, but just look at all the SEC charges against market makers. They never leave money on the table and have way more options to take it than retail lol.

_Commando_

Didn't he scam ppl with pump n dump tokens, took that money to enrich himself.... Also other week posted a 1.25b long position on btc, posted on x about 120k btc price next week. Few mins later swapped his long for a short then got rekt. Opened a long and called out MM to liquidate em. Got rekt and now hes crying.... classic scumback.

Scottex99

Haha oh no you’ve embarrassed me in front of everyone! So I’ve used DeFi before, Uni, MM, CB Wallet, LPs etc, granted not since the highs of mainly dumb NFTs a couple of years ago, and it still took me at least 60 mins to figure this out. Recover wallet on MM, add Arbitrum Nova, add Moons, convert Moons to ETH, at that stage I considered messaging you to check what chain you could support but I had about 5 guides open and honestly was done with it, so I opened another 4 guides to figure out how to finally bridge from arbitrum nova to regular arbitrum and finally secure my… $33.53 If I wasn’t bearish enough already, most noobs are not going to be able to manage that - I’m glad I never have to think about it ever again, except maybe in a year to check that the price is $0.01

DeoVeritati

I think 2 people could retire on $1MM in some rural areas. It'd replace ~$40k/yr in income, and you might qualify for some subsidies or affordable health care. It wouldn't be glamorous living, but I've lived on $18-22k/yr before with a house payment as a single dude, so call it $15k/yr after the mortgage is paid off.

livingandlearning10

Bro $10MM to trump is literally like $200 to the average person with $100k saved up. It's not meaningful. He's got about $5Bn right? $10MM = 0.2%. If you got $100k, 0.02% is $200.

Simpleton_24

I will apologize up front, in case my tone sounds harsh but I am fairly blunt and also sarcastic. That being said, I am sincerely trying to add to the conversation and, hopefully offer you a different perspective. I have a Finance degree from a reputable business school and have been in the financial industry with well known firms for 25+ years. I'm only stating that because I worry that a lot of #btc owners that may reply are woefully uninformed and don't understand the US economy, global markets, or the banking system in general. A couple of points: You are correct that our banking system allows banks to lend based on a multiple of the deposits they hold. That does limit the lending amounts, but is more than the cash on hand. The mortgages, that are created are backed by the properties but are also bundled together and sold as bonds, mostly from FNMA and FMAC, to investors. So eventually, the actual cash does cover the bonds and is in the system. Regulation allow banks to pre-fund the mortgages (which will eventually be funded by bond investors) so that people can buy houses. Without that liquidity, there would be no lending. It's the same with interest. If lenders didn't charge interest, there would be no profit, and lending wouldn't exist. These are necessary functions of a modern day economy and banking system. Take a few minutes and review the money supply and you will see that the system does have the ability to reduce or increase the amount of Dollars in our system. People say it has an unlimited supply (which it theoretically does) but, in reality, the supply is limited by the system. If fiat was able to multiply without limits, it would be worthless, inflation would be up 1000% and we would be back to trading chickens for chothes. Saying the USD isn't backed by anything is crypto propaganda. The mortgage on your property that was eventually funded by an investor with Fiat is collateralized by your home. That has legit value. Also, although I realize it is paper, the entire world has agreed that goods and services are measured and traded using the USD. The structure of the system alone gives it value. If you do the google search or YouTube video and see how the money supply is controlled, you will see that supply and demand still matter and provide value in society to the USD. Now #BTC. You say it's the opposite of USD, True. It has no function, is not backed by anything, was created on a computer by a made up character who doesn't exist, and, for all we know, coiuld contain some type of technology flaw where it disappears overnight. People say its safe because it has a limited supply...First, almost 30% of mined tokens have vanished in the first 15 years. Every single commodity on Earth has a limited supply. Do we know how many barrels of oil are in the ground or ounces of gold, no. However, just because we can't quantify it does not mean the supply is unlimited. Because #BTC has no use, it is equivalent to the limited supply of ocean water. How much is a cup of ocean water worth? Zero. Why? Because there is a huge supply and zero demand. Nothing will ever create demand for #BTC except speculators who are waiting for the next idiot ahead of them to be willing to buy at a higher price. Also, if I can invest $10 or $1MM in the existing mined supply, why is the 21 Million quantity relavant? It's not. Lastly, it's not a F'ng inflation hedge. How can it hedge against inflation better than the USD when it is priced in USD? It is subject to the exact same inflation related losses as USD. How do people not understand that? There is no rabbit hole, there is a viable, reliable, global financial system that has existed for over 100 years. Debt is not a bad thing. If it didn't exist there would be zero economic growth across the world.

Scottex99

I think I still have mine, or at least have the seed for the vault. Obviously they are never going to be worth anything and if I can be bothered to add whatever goth chain they are on I’ll try to sell from my MM one day. Shock horror, something you could farm by posting memes on Reddit, doesn’t have value

Ashamed_Moment_2477

How do you guys know that this is a guy. I could be a CEX or MM just playing around without loosing anything

panthera_N

if MM dumps BTC and pushes price down to this level, he will be liquidated

IntrepidFarmer5666

There is no end to this sell off  I have never seen anything like what happened overnight so many stocks went up 10 percent and then immediately went flat at open  Crypto erased an entire month of gains in a single day and there is absolutely no recovery this is how you kill the crypto industry nice job MM now nobody will ever buy this shit again when they know it’s just gonna get pump and dumped faster than they can blink 

1BannedAgain

If you can’t quit at $10MM or $20MM or $50MM, you can never quit and will lose it all

2_The_Moon_And_Back

At this point I believe MM’s manipulating the market to reach the whale’s liquidation price took his rant on X personally or something.

ghostchihuahua

>not understanding crypto yes, very sadly this is the case for many investors, bitcoin ETF is just a way to make bitcoin: a) palatable to the average trader b) provide MM's with a supplementary tool to manipulate the price and give them more leverage (Citadel is never far when such fuckery is afoot) - never confuse a bitcoin derivative with bitcoin, they are not the same by any measure.

PaleNewspaper3

Because retail is simply incapable of making significant changes to the stock price. Our buys are routed to dark pools- only institutions can make the price move like that. It’s likely that MM algos simply scraped the data, saw RK was going to stream & reacted accordingly. Essentially that pump was just big $ trying to catch value. It’s not that the stream was inconsequential- or that the pump would have happened without the stream announcement, it’s just that it wasn’t the people watching RKs stream who caused the price to pump.

LordoftheEyez

Wait didn’t that Twitter jackass just lose $90MM on a margin call like an hour before this? 😂

panthera_N

the biggest beneficiary is Hyperliquid, then other MM, as for exactly who is the butcher I don't know, maybe ARKHAM knows

TestNet777

Fair enough but it’s just odd. I agree, the cards are on the table. All the data is there. It’s tiring see GME (mostly cultists, not saying you are) talk about the same GME talking points like AI bots; $5B cash, profitable, bankruptcy is off the table while simultaneously ignoring that the cash is literally 100% from dilution (GME has retained losses of $81.5MM), the “profit” is due to interest earned on that cash raised via dilution due to interest rate levels and the actual business activity still generates operating losses on an annual basis. All this while the stuff they sell (video games) continues to see shifts to digital vs physical which makes it really hard to see a path to how business operations can ever be profitable. All of that is factual. Like, I don’t get why you or others wouldn’t acknowledge that. So much emotional attachment to a stock is just odd. I’m not looking to change your mind. If you think GME is a way to play Bitcoin and you’d for some reason rather buy a company that loses money, dilutes and buys Bitcoin instead of just buying Bitcoin yourself…sure, you do you.

panthera_N

depends on his next bet, he is the real big trader, if he goes long it will go down, he goes short it will go up, as long as MM gets his money and transfers it to their pockets, but just temporary price action, we are still in a bull market for BTC

panthera_N

depends on his next bet, he is the real big trader, if he goes long it will go down, he goes short it will go up, as long as MM gets his money and transfers it to their pockets, but just temporary price action, we are still in a bull market for BTC

_Commando_

He's just 1 of many traders with that large sum of $'s. This has been going on for years between market makers. What he should do is employ a smarter strategy which is to break the amount into multiple addresses that are not directly linked / identifiable. And with multiple addresses your position size is kind of below the radar... this is what a lot of MM's do....

The_Wind_Cries

This is a slightly different case though. This is a whale making himself irresistible to MM liquidation hunting which is unfortunately holding the whole market hostage. This is not the same, and it’s not ideal for a few reasons.

The_Wind_Cries

The thing that's a bit frustrating is he's going to be watching that position like a hawk, decreasing his long's every time the MM's try to move the price down there to liquidate him. So yes he loses money every time that happens, but it's frustrating for the rest of us I think for a few reasons: 1. It means the price of BTC is being arbitrarily kept in a certain range (occasionally moving down erratically) simply because MM's love to hunt their own customers 2. This guy could easily release BTC from this price range if he would simply either go through a CEX, OR spread his position out amongst a bunch of different wallets and DEX's. He also could stop increasing his long's every time the price of BTC goes up after he's been chased out of a certain liquidation target... but he does so anyway and therefore keeps making himself irresistable to MM's to target him. 3. I know it's naiive to say it, but this whole game is not what BTC is supposed to be about and it's a bid sad that it's being reduced to the plaything of the ultra rich (whether a whale or MMs in this case).

ghostchihuahua

..how to buy bitcoin that don't exist, that's a lot of money for just thin air. At the rate some infamously nefarious player's among MM are swallowing them, all my bets are on fuckery being afoot.

mm34505

Correct on futures, but they still saw more demand then Solana futures ETH network I do not believe is better but we can go back and forth all day on our opinions as to why. It's very very expensive to use whenever we get any sort of volume, it's slow and expensive. The xrpl is fast, cheap, and scales to a high TPS. BTC ETFs did not pump the volume till after the fact ETH ETFs will send the price flying this cycle. It is all being manipulated down by market makers. I have spoken to the MM first hand and they tell me the exact strategy. XRP does have the most bullish chart in all of crypto I'm not a 3 digit xrp person,.nor do I believe 4 digits I firmly believe we will see 8-13 this cycle which is a massive run from where it all started at 50 cents in November.

The_Wind_Cries

I think MM fighting hard to keep it down so they can keep making runs at that hyper whale. I think they know that if they let up BTC might move too far out of range

Space2999

Thanks. Is it held on an exchange? How are the fees? I saw some charge a flat 1%, does that mean when your 1.5 is worth $100MM, you’ll be paying 1% to get it back out? (Not that there aren’t worse problems to have.)

b1mm3rl1f3

- JUST IN: TRUMP MEDIA GROUP PLANS TO RAISE $3BN FOR CRYPTOCURRENCY PURCHASES ~ FINANCIAL TIMES - Bitwise Research projects $400B in institutional BTC inflows by 2026. Insane amount of liquidations coming up, MM *will* take it to $120k soon

rdp916

Well I got 30% of my networth invested. In it for the long haul. Been in it since 2017. Waiting for $1MM BTC price then I’ll figure out what to do

panthera_N

Jump Crypto is the main MM

oprahfinallykickedit

Who's MM?

ImOakOrAmI

Or $2MM by 2036…

Eder_120

He's gonna keep on borrowing and borrowing as BTc goes up. He's not going to stop borrowing and buying. He alone will be able to push BTc to $1MM/BTc

mlarktar

What is lost on people, is when Bitcoin reaches 13 MM , and it will. Then a loaf of bread will be $1000. Under those circumstances the dollar will be replaced with something else. I was born in one of those banana countries. I've seen it happen. Good news is that it's not the end of the world. Life goes on.

Virtual-Baseball-297

This. Get everybody to leverage up to liquidate, reset closes, MM then liquidate those trying to liquidate trader. Buy and hold. Simple.

redline8k

Easily. Could be $10MM

b1mm3rl1f3

I'm surprisingly not as excited either, BTC should be at least 200k by now. Also seeing a lot of posts where people are still in disbelief and waiting for a dump. MM did their job ✅

respectandmanners

Once we go from current $0.111111 MM to $1M, it sure will

MattRedditCat

Yep, I had to learn that myself too :) Not trying to be an ass by the way. I just feel that those of us that have been around crypto for longer tend to forget we are just as much retail as anyone entering the space now. We had to learn a lot along the way, and MM's/whales dump on us just the same as they will on any newbies. DCA'ing into fear can be scary AF if you aren't an institution with millions of liquidity lol

Objective123987

Because it’s all a game of russian roulette liquidations between the MM and the rich unless you were in early and holding. Normies are underwater chasing hopeium riches from shit and scam coins.

General_Strike356

Pi Network. Lots of FUD out there about it but it’s building a real future. Just announced a $100MM investment. It’s a solid coin building towards a rewarding future.

FunkyChickenTendy

Regardless of what I think about this particular brand, in 3-4 years this car will have cost you > $1MM. You do you, I wouldn't do that trade with your money, never mind my BTC.

BARTing

Step 1: Make nodes so that only big corporate miners can have the money to run them by making the blocks unwieldy and clogged up with spam via taking off filters (op return gets deleted) 2. Big corporations meet in a back room and shake hands and agree to increase the 21 MM (likely by some plausible sounding "reasonable" method har har) 3. Profit

chanmalichanheyhey

Exactly, these retail doesn’t know even know how MM works They have visibility over stop losses and liquidation points. That’s all you need to know.

AlwaysMooning

Some people are going to buy at $500k because it’s going to $1MM. Some people are going to buy at $1MM because it’s going to $5MM. And so on. It’s going up forever, Laura.

DuckBeddit

Lol, again it's a ghost chain and there's no activity nor any TVL locked. It's the MM who are pumping and those who mined, well their tokens are still locked.

the8thbit

The bitcoin network transfers funds in less than 24h and costs less than $1k per transaction. Faster speeds and lower costs are great, but that's really all Bitcoin needs to be able to do to meet its primary value proposition as a cheap and fast hard asset. If you wanted to transfer $1MM in physical gold between continents its going to cost you thousands of dollars, possibly tens of thousands of dollars, and its going to take around a week. If we were talking about "bitcoin but faster and cheaper" then sure, that would be better, but XRP (as well as all other cryptoassets with faster transaction times and lower cost transactions) have tradeoffs. In the best case, you're trading liveliness. Provided your bid is high enough, you should not be waiting on the network to confirm your transaction for more than a maximum of 10 minutes (plus 2 or 3 seconds for the block to propagate). This is a known quantity, and can be planned around. Other faster but still decentralized networks like Ethereum and Avalanche sacrifice liveliness, so there is always a chance that the network will grind to a halt and you will be unable to transfer funds for an indeterminate amount of time. More important than liveliness for this use case is sacrificing trustlessness. Bitcoin and ethereum are highly trustless. Bitcoin has a ton of miners distributed across the globe, and they output an enormous amount of hashpower. Once a transaction has a couple confirmations, its absurdly unlikely that that transaction will ever be reversed. If you are swapping millions of dollars, a guarantee that you won't get a charge back is pretty important. Likewise, ethereum has a ton of validators, and (as a PoS token, this is important) fairly decentralized asset holdings. Of course, with PoS your trustlessness guarantee is never as strong as in PoW, because asset consolidation can lead to a loss of trustlessness. For any given transaction you make right now that's not a big deal, but it does factor into valuation when the chief value proposition is functioning as a hard asset. If you buy ethereum now, you could be holding onto an asset that is *eventually* compromised as a result of asset consolidation. You're not without that risk with bitcoin, but the risk is mitigated to a large degree because PoW introduces a middle step. Markets just naturally centralize currency. Once you have money, its easier to make more money, even if you're just doing zero-sum bets on coin flips, so a cabal of ethereum holders powerful enough to alter the chain history could theoretically emerge largely out of the normal functioning of the market. Bitcoin is a lot harder (but not theoretically impossible) to influence because you would have to corner hash power, not just the asset itself. That means a huge upfront spend, and if your spend isn't large enough to take over the market instantly, then you're going to attract competing miners. Again, I'm not saying it can't happen with Bitcoin, and I'm not saying it will happen with Ethereum, but its just that much less likely on a PoW system with so much hashpower than in any PoS system. XRP is neither PoS nor PoW. Rather, nodes maintain a whitelist of trusted validators. In theory, you could modify that list, but in practice the network requires nodes to maintain a consensus list in order for the network to guarantee that a transfer of funds will go through under normal operation. If every node built its own whitelist, each node would be a network of 1 without the ability to transfer to other nodes. Changing the validator whitelist is effectively equivalent to a hard fork on a PoW or PoS network. So in practice, all nodes use the same whitelist, and that list is maintained by Ripple Labs. About 20% of those validators are controlled directly by Ripple Labs, and the other 80% are of course directly selected by Ripple Labs as RL maintains the list. It should go without saying that this sacrafices trustlessness. If RL wanted to reverse a transaction, it would not be particularly difficult to do so, either by working with their whitelist validators that they already have relationships with, or, if they can't get enough to comply, by simply altering the nodes on the whitelist. This really isn't a big deal if you're buying groceries, but its an enormous problem if you're transferring $1MM worth of XRP across continents. That being said, trustlessness obviously isn't the only value proposition of settlement networks. However, if you're not concerned with trustlessness, why not just use (or invest in) venmo, cashapp, visa, mastercard, etc...? When you transfer funds from one venmo account to another, the recipient generally sees the funds in their account within 1 second of authorization, and at that point they are instantly transferable. Compare this to XRPs ~5 seconds until finality. Certainly both are "good enough" for almost any use case, but why choose the option that's slower, more expensive, and less accessible if that option doesn't even get you trustlessness? What advantage does XRP have over these competitors?

BARTing

[A recap](https://twitter.com/johnBTCdoe) for example. I'm team ossify the code. This op sec or op return argument is imo only to crack open a way to argue change the code to make >21 MM.🟠 I'm interested to see the down votes.

thistimelineisweird

Decentralization isn't the only goal of crypto. I wouldn't even say it is the primary goal of crypto, either. That's just a feature. Anyone who thinks that crypto exists to kill banking and bring in some DeFi utopia are fooling themselves. Sure, you can do that, if you choose, but most won't. The real value of crypto is that blockchain has uses AND maintains value that is open to anyone, not just a private company. Places can use blockchain projects to complete tasks and transactions that otherwise were more expensive, slower, required a ton of in-house infrastructure (e.g. servers), etc. by using the decentralized tools of PoW, PoS, ledgers, etc. Are all ALTs junk? No. Are 99% of ALTs junk? Absolutely. My best performer in my portfolio is XRP. My second best is only BTC because I bought when it crashed back to $19k. But I think there is still money to be made in ALTs. What you're talking about here is a risk vs rewards scenario. Is BTC likely to go to $1MM? Not any time soon, if it does. Will an alt 10x by the next year? Some will, absolutely. Will you be correct on which one you pick? Ehh... maybe not. I, personally, think most of the alts you hold are going to survive another cycle. Whether they go up, or down, or sideways, who knows.

WindowWrong4620

The price grew by nearly 6,000% in 2013; it's impossible for this kind of run to occur in later cycles cos of math. Market cap, m2 supply etc. Tldr: no, we're not going to see $6MM this year.

Cantrillion

This conversation will happen again at $500k or $1MM or whatever, and it happened at $50k and $10k. For some people it happened at $100. If you said no earlier, you supposed to say no forever? This cycle I'll sell what I put into BTC and let the rest ride. But you do you. That's what a truly free money means.

JoeyJoJo_1

It's because the latin for 1000 is 'mille', or M, and the concept of a million was 'a thousand thousands', or MM.

vamossss

M = 1000 MM = 1000 * 1000 = 1 million

angelwolf71885

No problem Japan and east Asia uses YY/MM/DD

user_name_checks_out

So, worst case scenario - $1MM by summer 2028 - that works for me.

thupkt

It matters practically ZERO where it goes above 10mm or so. By that time everyone who has ever owned BTC before this moment should be strapped with enough for the ride, or they deserve to be left out. I have no ultimate upside target. I find that exercise to be silly when compared to following cycle trends for LT signals/buys/sells, and my charting acumen for "active trading decisions." I like 170K for this cycle target. Beyond that? If BTC doesn't fall below 48K next cycle low it should top at least a half million next cycle. But I know 90% of this sub here probably has a min 200-225K cycle top target this cycle and maybe closer to 1MM next cycle.

b1mm3rl1f3

\- BlackRock bought $531MM in BTC for its ETF yesterday \- BESSENT: THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WILL NEVER DEFAULT, WE WILL RAISE THE DEBT CEILING As Global M2 makes another ATH and BTC continues to track it. It's going to be a HOT summer 😉

b1mm3rl1f3

[https://medium.com/coinmonks/bitcoin-is-disappearing-and-youre-not-supposed-to-notice-8e345537ea25](https://medium.com/coinmonks/bitcoin-is-disappearing-and-youre-not-supposed-to-notice-8e345537ea25) $5-10MM by 2035, mark it

TrustMeIAmNotNew

No not really, not for a major city. But if you are in the middle of Montana, then yea you could retire with $1MM USD.

SeriousGains

77k and 250k predictions aren’t even in the same realm. And 1MM in 3 years is preposterous.

b1mm3rl1f3

3 halvings to go in the next 10 years. I'd say $5-10MM RemindMe! 10 years

b1mm3rl1f3

"Arthur Hayes now calling for 1MM BTC in 3 years. Path: \- BTC 250K this year \- 500K in 2026 \- 1MM in 2027-2028 Massive Deficits (Doge does nothing) Expanded Goverment Spending Fed onboard with Brrr in 2026 Yield curve control etc... all coming"

thistimelineisweird

The only reason the US may have a debt crisis is because they keep electing Republicans who lower taxes for the rich and increase spending.  That's it. That's the list. That said, being the world's reserve currency does have drawbacks for the country in question despite its many merits. But, yeah, I can't wait for BTC to be worth $1MM and the USD worth 90% less due to inflation and no longer being the world's reserve currency. I'll be rich! ...wait a minute. 

Huge_Monero_Shill

So you would feel comfortable with say: $80,000 annual expenses, inclusive of most 'unexpected costs' * $2MM in assets: $160k HYSA | 19.4 BTC ($1.8MM) Annual expenses picked just to make the math easy. Yeah, this actually sounds about right. Personally, as much as I believe in Bitcoin I'd want a sizeable stock portfolio, say: * $2MM in assets: $80k HYSA | 10 BTC ($950k) | $970k VT (total world stock ETF) All Bitcoin in retirement is just 'win more' at the cost of risk.

comp21

Just to be pedantic: 20,999,999.9769 is actually the cap for Bitcoin. Not 21 MM. It's actually more scarce than you realize.

soks86

I think it's more likely that 21,000,000.00000000 fits into a 64 bit number without loss of precision. I've seen no evidence but this is the only thing that makes sense. Why not 99MM rather than 21MM, I dunno. There are cases where only 15 digits fit into a 64 bit number so maybe stopping at 21MM handles that, I'm not keen on the details here.

livingandlearning10

I agree market price is determined at the margin and in efficient markets price is determined by demand and supply...are you implying you're going to manipulate supply to get the price to $10MM? The market cap is totally relevant, yes this thing may not have fundamentals, but it shows how much money is invested in the asset class. Just like you'd look at how much money is invested around the world in bonds, equities, real estate, gold etc. There is a finite supply of money in the world to invest among these various asset classes. If you took all the liquid money in the world today (aka the broad money supply, it would total $129Tn). If you dumped all that money into bitcoin, assuming you don't manipulate supply, the implied price would only be be $5.9MM (~60x what it is today (~$2Tn to $129Tn). I already explained how I came to the figures but I'll do it again. Btc price today: $93k. Multiply that by number of BTC out there and total money invested in BTC globally is $1.92Tn or so. So let's round it up and say at a price of about $100k, market cap is about $2Tn. For the price to go from $100k to $10mm, assuming you don't manipulate supply, there'd have to be $200Tn invested in this asset class. For comparison, total USD in circulation today is about $2Tn (1% of the number you're talking about). Again, the total money supply has 5x over the last 20 years. Let's assume it 5x again in the next 20 years. So total money supply goes from 129Tn to like 635Tn right? You're saying BTC asset class will represent 200Tn of that...that's like a third. What you're implying is that if you add up the entire global monetary base, all the cash circulating around the world, all the money in checking accounts, short term savings, treasuries, liquid securities. 1 in every 3 dollars of that will be invested in btc. Mind you in 20 years at an avg annual inflation rate of 3.75% (which is about the avg inflation rate for the last 20 years), that $10mm is really more like $5mm in real terms indexed to today's dollars. The $10mm headline really makes people think they're going to 100x their money and get rich off of bitcoin.

livingandlearning10

Dude I get it, going from $93k to $10mm in 20 years is a 25% CAGR. Bitcoins cagr historically was higher than that so why not? Ofcourse it was higher than that, it didn't even exist 20 years ago. It went from $1k market cap to $2Tn. So why can't it just go to $200Tn, right? Or even a quadrillion? It would still be lower than historical average. You get that people have to actually buy it to make the price go up. If you were to take all the money in the world today, every single dollar, plus every single liquid asset owned in every single account in the world, bitcoins market cap would go to 129Tn, implying a price of just under $5.9mm. Obviously you don't believe there's any possibility of even that happening right? So 10mm is totally out of the question. Even if you try to justify it by saying oh but it's in 20 years the global economy will grow, the money supply will expand etc etc. You'd literally have to put 1 in every 3 dollars of the entire money supply in 2045 into bitcoin to get a price of 10mm....mind you with compounded inflation, that would represent less than $5MM in today's terms...but still that's just to give you an idea of how outlandish a number this is. It's not comparable to anything in global capital markets, from equities to bonds to fx...nothing. it's not even an investment per se, maybe it can have some sort of use as a global currency...but for something like this to materialize you'd have to basically make the whole global economy trade in crypto. A new world order. Maybe itl happen in the next 20 years but that's more of a paradigm shift than some growth projection. You're not projecting to grow at some rate you're projecting to turn upside down the whole way the global economy works.