MM

VariatCA

Aside from MM's working on the weekend to try to choke a metric ton of short liquidity when the volume is low? Hard to guess what kind of economically-optimistic news could sway the markets this weekend to jump 5% before Monday's open.

No-Lingonberry6473

Please do. For the benefit of everyone on this sub - how long have you been hodling and what does $1MM in bitcoin represent as a percentage of your investments?

namieorange

Will anyone come back after this fiasco? I see only BTC holders, a few ETF and a bunch of gamblers coming back. Why buy or trade anything else? If MM and exchanges wanted to kill their business, they did it fantastically

Accidental_Ballyhoo

yep, good old MM

MarioWilson122

Yeah that sounds about right, of course nothing wrong with being hopeful but this year was really bad for crypto for sure. Doesn't seem like MM want to see it succeed to much anyway. Every time it looks to show life they make sure to drain it right back out. So likely not much can really push this back up. Whether we get the cut or not next month probably wont do to much for this situation.

Xray_Mind

Crypto is the easiest target ever for MM. the only market with absolute morons that lack basic understanding of leverage with absolute gambler mentalities

Consistent_Panda5891

If it sinks under 60K it might go to 20 because why not, there is not short selling restrictions on crypto alike stocks. If MM is naked short they will milk till last $. Honestly I would not own this coin for such low reward multiple and high downside multiple.

VariatCA

Still chillin' and still buying more BTC at this level. Mornings like todays, and frankly the price action of the entire last month, highlight how strongly MM's are trying to suppress the price and aggressively hunt any liquidity they can. While the stock market is still pushing forwards and the Fed is wrapping up QT and further loosening monetary policy, we'll look back at moments like these as entry points we wish we'd taken advantage of. This entire year has been one long lesson on BTC's resiliency and how momentum can shift in a heartbeat. Every new all-time high this year also came with 10-15% downturns or more right before the next run-up.

A1JX52rentner

>It does not take more capital to move bitcoins price. Bitcoin is priced at the margin. It literally just takes 1 buyer at 1MM and next to no sellers at that price. When you think you understood market cap but you suffer from dunnning kruger.

normnormno

You took a hypothetical situation used as an example to show what being priced at the margin means, as if I'd said, "someone is going to just pay 1MM tomorrow" You sir, are stupid.

normnormno

It does not take more capital to move bitcoins price. Bitcoin is priced at the margin. It literally just takes 1 buyer at 1MM and next to no sellers at that price. As soon as there are more 1MM level buyers than sellers, that's the new floor. It doesn't have to do anything it isn't already doing to be there. Right now, the world believes bitcoin is a bargain at 100k. A few years back it was believed to be a bargain at 10k. It doesn't need extra capital injected to spring to a new price, it just needs attitude shift. Also when bitcoin was 1k, people believed it would take a massive amount of capital to reach 100k, it was a pipe dream. Yet it got there sooner than many of us anticipated.

Sandvicheater

What kind of idiot millionare was this dude. The moment you get up to $10MM+ that's when you hire a full time body guard to follow your ass 24/7 add an extra zero to that then you hire a entire bodyguard team.

namieorange

You know I think people will sell because they're set on "It's 4 years, nothing will change, lines" And then after a few weeks into 2026 liquidity after ending QT will keep pouring into the market and we'll go on and join the stock market in their lengthened cycle. But not us, by then all of us would have sold our non pumped bags to whales, MM and a few lucky bunch

user_name_checks_out

Up until a few months ago, I was able to daydream about $1MM bitcoin before 2030. My logic was that in 2021 we would have hit $100K if FTX had not absorbed so many dollars intended for bitcoin. So going into 2025 with $100K as a floor, I thought that this cycle we would hit $250K+, on our way to $1MM in 2029. But now I see. $70K in 2021, and we haven't even managed to 2x that in 2025. The idea that we would 10x again by 2029 now seems ludicrous to me.

bizaroo933

All of this so that these criminal MM’s can proudly write again that ‘x billion longs got liquidated!’

b1mm3rl1f3

As Tom Lee buys $70MM of ETH. RemindMe! 5 months

chungalinga

Interesting take, I think you're right that it's easier for MM to chase longs as the momentum is to the downside and it's closer. On the other hand, I would like to think that MM shouldn't let all these shorts get away for so long as the house always wins Plus we haven't seen a god candle yet as every bull market has one (if we're still in one).

Aggressive-Bid7995

have enough money in MM or SGOV so can live with no income for some time period depending on your situation

Extreme-Warthog-1084

That will definitely be a pump and dump time for market makers to use retail for exit liquidity. That is why we are bouncing. Its so clear MM is dumping now but had to stop yesterday before they ran out of buyers and tank the markets way too hard. The big problem is QT and QE, rates and over priced markets. QT is ending in dec but thats not the start of QE or mass QE. It could take years for QE to start in a mass scale to boost crypto markets. And QE starts when markets crash, not during a bull market. Go look at past QT ending, July-sept 2019, BTC didnt do much and actually went down till covid came when mass QE started.

OhWiseWizard

There are 1 billion LINK tokens, no one can make more. What you're talking about would require a fork, much like Bitcoin which has been forked many times (you can argue BSV and BCH are just "more Bitcoin"). 300MM of those are still held by Chainlink Labs, but the infrastructure itself is decentralized. Regardless, this isn't a post about me educating people on Chainlink, so not sure why all the attempts to spread misinformation.

bizaroo933

These disgusting MM’s and exchanges can again proudly announce ‘billions of longs got liquidated’. Hope karma punishes them for this disgusting manipulation

Pabzzzzzz

Doesn't mean he was using high leverage. Even traders using 2x leverage got wiped out on that day if they had a trade open on any altcoin. For context, this event was a 20 min flash crash due to a binance bug, USDe depegging, and MM's clearing their orders from the books. To put it into context, multiple alt coins dropped 90% in 20 minutes before rebounding instantly. 1.6 million accounts liquidated. Stop losses were ignored, and if you successfully shorted the market, your position was auto closed by ADL (Auto Deleveraging) because it would bankrupt the exchanges. Even people playing it relatively "safe" (in terms of leverage, stop losses, etc) got completely wiped out. Many traders took their lives on this day. Tbh someone should probably go to prison for this event, but they won't. For everyone else, only use leverage with money you can afford to lose, because a flash crash can wipe you out before you can blink. "Risk management" in leverage is a mirage if there is a flash-crash.

b1mm3rl1f3

"Long-term bitcoin holders have sold more than 400,000 bitcoin over the last 30-days, representing almost 2% of the total supply." It's crazy that that level of rotation into gold happened and we didn't dump 50%. There's obviously monstrous size absorbing this sell pressure and BTC keeps maintaining higher lows @ key support. "Bitcoin fell 4.5% in October, ending a six-year streak of positive performance, but LMAX strategist Joel Kruger says the drop is likely a pause, not a reversal. The fundamentals remain strong, and historically, Q4 is Bitcoin’s best-performing quarter. Bitcoin is last down 2.4% at $107,564." Will people get tired of waiting for BTC and flood the stock market? Saylor says $150k EOY, Tom Lee says $200k EOY. The \~$14B in shorts can't and won't be ignored by MM but I think the squeeze happens in Q1

iDecidedToBeBetter

The Federal Reserve: “there is an infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve”. https://youtu.be/CDS8gs_5W6E?si=At3MGh8Ddsh4_7G1 The denominator will grow indefinitely. Your $ will be a smaller and smaller part of the total amount of dollars in existence. So that fraction would be $1/(infinitely growing amount) BTC there will only ever be 21MM so the denominator is fixed. 1BTC with always be 1/21MM

HighValueJourney

Anyone under the assumption that there will not be an alt season has been fully played. The MM are not going to allow billions of dollars to just slip away. They are accumulating. It is all a scam. It is just a matter of what side of the scam you are on!

namieorange

You know exchanges and MM can trigger alt season the moment they want right? Same as they crashed the whole market to -90% they can simply create massive god candles and FOMO as they wish with such thin books. That is IF they want. If and when it's convenient for them, they'll attract all degens in again. Greed is stronger than fear

panthera_N

no new money coming in, only old people's money flowing into MM wallet nonstop, squeeze until dry 🤔

MaximumStudent1839

> Strokin asserts that Binance can crash Bitcoin's price to $30K–$50K with just three clicks No. That is absurd. If CZ can do that, BNB would be top 2 at least by now. > liquidating 133,000 traders There is your problem. The space has gotten addicted to perp trading. Heck, they have become so much of a volatility junkie that they have to leverage volatile memes like Fartcoin. The shit is already volatile by itself. Wintermute and such are MM. They can make money from searching where liquidity lives. If there is a huge spot of liquidity from leverage, wtf do you think they will do? It is their business. If ppl don't do crazy levels of perps, they have no leverage to hunt.

Lantjiao69

MM is eating good this year, and you call them dumb? 🤣

paidzesthumor

Data scrape a sample of your winning trades, develop a trading model then test against the remainder of your wins to validate if it’s an exploitable pattern. Some prop shops might be willing to nibble on your strategy but just know you’re trying to sell to traders whose strategies are virtually certain to better than yours and at scale. IMO it’s more valuable to demonstrate a track record of self-learning, analyzing, refining and improving your strategy and articulating your conviction and rationale behind the changes you made rather than any raw genius or skill. As far as tools go, you can either monetize it or shop it as part of an interview process if you’re looking to get a 9-5 a trading software engineer. My own two cents, monetizing SaaS in the trading / MM space is a lot tougher now with AI. People can dunk on vibe coding all they want but the reality is that the bar to impress with an MVP is way higher now.

innocentrrose

I still use MM because it’s what I’m used to, and what I started with in 2021. BUT I will say after using other wallets throughout the last year alongside it, MM is kinda ass compared…

Pretenderinchief

No news was bad news. Idiots putting on massive leverage on possible positive tariff meeting so the MM decide to wipe them out before heading north slowly. Everyone in here with a 300 dollar portfolio decides to come in here and type "WE ARE DEAD".

Lufia321

MM also does that with scam sites

PandorasBucket

I see I guess I already have so many wallets added in MM that it would be a huge pain in the ass for me to switch at this point.

ftball21

Exactly. Connecting a *hardware wallet* to rabby is a far superior ux compared to clunky MM

HSuke

I think you might be alone on that opinion. Exodus lacks half of the advanced features of MM, Rabby, and CB wallet. It's one of the most basic wallets I've tested.

Environmental_gobrrr

I used to be in the same shoes as you tbh MM is shit rabby was ahead of the curve and you have/had to manually change the network fill all the bullshit details moreover when i used to use MM I couldn't see the portfolio value including all chains and the mobile UI it was too damn laggy very annoying

d_drobot

Bruh, MM has had simulations before rabby was launched

PandorasBucket

I still see no reason to switch from MM. I've never understood the hate.

Pinewatch762

UI sucks, swap features suck, gas is more expensive. Rabby allows you to add usdc to a gas account so you don’t burn eth for swaps and transfers. MM has the one up with the fact you have to manually add coins. Rabby also has a risk rating and simulates swaps and transfers

Pinewatch762

Rabby is so much better than MM. and I’ve used metamask for YEARS prior to rabby

HBRWHammer5

Another EVM wallet, far superior to both phantom and MM.

Lufia321

Why does MM suck? Genuine question because I have no issues with MM.

HBRWHammer5

Metamask sucks, Rabby is amazing and deserved to eat MM's market share

jclaslie

The sad part is that most people don’t even use them, or don’t know they exist. The MM team needs to do more work on raising awareness about the usefulness of snaps.

BakingBreadBB2

Snaps are really turning MM into a Swiss army knife. I was very close to replacing it with Rabby completely, but snaps came in clutch

namieorange

Only thing I still think is a good enough reason to expect an alt season. We know how easy exchanges and MM can manipulate to create fear like we saw on 10/10. But also FOMO. IF we end this cycle without any stories about alt season, insane days of gains for a few weeks. But instead end with the sour taste of crypto only being risk no reward game. Then their business is done for. Nobody will come to this market if they can get more gains less risk just going with stocks. It is in their interest to keep the narrative and greed so we keep coming back. So I think we'll probably have another leg up and sort of an alt season, probably with QE

b1mm3rl1f3

They'll say the same thing in 2030 @ $1MM and 2040 @ $10MM lol

thupkt

That's a straw man. Until BTC is $100MM/coin everyone can buy a sat for under a buck.

thupkt

Ideal? 21MM BTC

thehighgrasshopper

I see your 1MM and raise to 2MM.

zaareno

The main difference is Bitlock isn't really a plugin system like MM. It's more like verything is native: Charts, swaps, sniping, scam detection, dust cleaner, etc...

BoringPrinciple2542

We are talking about approximately 2.1MM BTC that has been untouched for 14 years hitting the market. That is about 10.5% of all BTC mined to date (about 19.9MM). I hate to break it to you but that absolutely could have a stupendous impact. For context this is around 3.3 MicroStrategies…. If this group does in fact have control of all of the wallets they have claimed to have seized (and so far there is evidence that they do) then they 100% could cause a massive crash. Not just by being on par with Mt. Gox but also the cascade effect as an avalanche of people get margin called. Then comes the chaos as millions of retail investors watch the price fall like a rock and panic sell. Feel free to bury your head in the sand but I prefer cold hard facts.

GabeSter

I’m sure the tweet is 70% bait and 30% ass kissing but it’s 100% real https://x.com/cz_binance/status/1981782733316927964?s=46&t=_XdO1MM-IScHom7IthfJPA

Puddingbuks26

Agree, lost around 60k on same issue on Kraken. IF MM matches below on a spike ur cooked indeed

Specialist_Log_7020

Still new to it, but so far Bitlock has been faster and cleaner for farming setups than MM.

thupkt

I know three cold wallet HODLRs I knew four. The fourth had $30MM BTC stolen from him (IDK how, I know I know!) and six months later KHS he was so devastated. He even promised me he would call if he was ideating. *Mind your wallets!* Do it for my lost friend.

_that_random_dude_

The volume you see on exchanges are 90%+ trading bots and MM orders. The retail has very little impact on anything This while market is decided by the daily vibe trading of bots and sometimes whales deciding to fuck with the price

normnormno

Majority won't take it seriously until it sits over 1MM per coin. Even people that own it don't understand. I always laugh when I see bitcoiners say "when bitcoin gets to a million, a million won't be worth having" Sure buddy. More bitcoin for me.

namieorange

What could be causing it? MM playing with us? People got over their fear?

dataCollector42069

For some reason, I always just picture everyone having to wear suits lol. MM side the pay is amazing but it is quite taxing on the mind. Bonus is about 30% on my side but a good base (especially for Chicago).

dataCollector42069

Hows the pay like for Market Risk at Tier 1 banks? I do something similar, though on the MM/HFT side of things.

Consistent_Panda5891

Gold never crash, as much expect a 10% correction in long term before an additional 15% pump. Silver is slightly undervalued than gold, that's what people will buy in that case. Noone will buy BTC if they haven't bought yet lol, BTC has already 1/10th gold market cap which is huge and not allow any monster move up. That's why MM try to push it lower

peepeepoopooxddd

HL had a meltdown and wouldn't accept deposits or withdrawals. My trades wouldn't execute. Binance had coins crash 99.99% because the order book was empty and there weren't MM / arb funds to prevent a total crash. I don't know much about the other exchanges during this crash, but if you say Binance or Hyperliquid were functional, you're delusional.

Aware_Ad_618

Tbf fractionals are sketchy. Fractional shares are something brokers and MM invented WHATS THE POINT OF A STOCK SPLIT IF FRACTIONALS ARE AVAILABLE Fractionals are not real

Financial-Link7328

It’s always been this way. MM, whales, pump & dump, KOLs scamming Chin up another day

RedPillVoice

Nothing healthy in BTC drop. All corrupt MM manipulation - especialllh with gold going UP all 2025

1StpKlosr42

Moons is actually looking pretty resilient here, no wonder the comments and daily discussions get downvoted to oblivion. It doesn't align with the market manipulators plans to fleece retail. Unlike Useless, Fartcoin, SPX, Pump, Kaspa, Pengu and all the other fake "community" projects by MM and big $ trying to AstroTurf this sub with their army of shills.

namieorange

Not any indicators, past data or moon theories THIS is the #1 reason I still believe an euphoric phase and alt season is still coming. If we finish the cycle like this, then nobody will remember this crypto bullrun. Nobody will talk about the huge pumps day after day we had. Most of the ones who remain wont touch crypto even from 10mtd away. It will end with a very sour memory and no gains compared to stocks. It is in the interest of thosenwho run the show, Exchanges, MM and the whole casino to hold the narrative and keep us coming back. Also for them to exit after a big pump, obviously before most of us can even take the crumbs they'll leave. So yeah, I still see them trying to keep the narrative intact. We all saw last week howneasy it is to manipulate the whole market

WinterPurple73

there is only one long leverage at 109K, but something tells me MM won't touch this for now, instead will go for the short leverage at 112K.

gemeplay

Honestly, more than half decent chance that what we are going to get here is a dalai lama reversal and a turbo moon, after some sideways consolidation. Those who don't know what this is, its a very common pattern in cypto. I've seen many during my time in bitcoin. Here's an example from 2022: [](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fx.com%2FMisterSpread%2Fstatus%2F1799834753283293235&psig=AOvVaw1VFEJE7bVM_5CLOLhS9Nhj&ust=1760688350126000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBYQjhxqFwoTCNCm6LOhqJADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE)Seems like a perfect play from MM to liquidate all of the leveraged longs by dunking it, grabbing that liquidity and eliminating overhead sell pressure, then using the shorts at the bottom to liquidate them and Well, that or the top was 6th October, as per the 1064 day trend from bear market bottom to top. Right now, I am holding, but as I am a trader not a hodler, I will yeet my bags (probably by end of this year), since I am up big since the lows in late 2022, and buy back in oct 2026. Q4 2026 should be big buying opp once again for stocks, gold and bitcoin, all due to bottom within a month of each other. Up huge on all of them so far, but just sitting back and letting the market do its thing.

No_Coyote_5598

yes, and they get busted, never has someone traded $190MM with insider knowledge and got away with it in regular capital markets. Hence those markets would crumble as investor sentiment would die and retail would lose confidence. Apples to oranges comparison, weird take bro

b1mm3rl1f3

Pretty common even among long term OG holders. I read about a guy who used 2x leverage on a $30MM stack, that’s how he got to $30MM in the first place. So stupid to go all in but greed is a real thing

panthera_N

CZ is MM and BNB can absolutely be 2nd, no problem with this

diamondhands95

I think i just burned my moons.Changed phone and i cant open my vault , they dont appear im MM,i ve imported nova and moons contract.F

20yroldentrepreneur

There were hundreds of millions of airdrop points being farmed on aster with billions of volume which were ending Oct 8. I had called this timing as the last chance MM can wipe out huge numbers of overleveraged traders.

user_name_checks_out

Where did he say that he had $10MM?

dstred

Even a 5y.o. kid could have realized by now that this was a planned robbery. All leverage traders lost all of their collaterals. Exchanges' marketmakers were part of that robbery imho. The liquidity in the orderbook on 99% altcoins is only marketmaker's orders, so when the time has come MM removed their orders so that a very small amount of asset could nose dive the price to zero

Individual_1ne

No one shorts bitcoin that heavily. Lol. MM's would be lucky to pocket 1/4 of that

imfrombiz

Rumor is MM were locked out and orderbooks were thin so it doesnt take much sell pressure to dump token price on a central orderbook.

dataCollector42069

I worked for a MM for years

chanmalichanheyhey

i am afraid its not as simple about the market recovering back to pre-tweet levels, even if Trump walks back on his threat 1. Plenty of traders already got fully rekt, they dont have the capital or stomach to jump in anymore 2. We havent seen news on quant traders and MM or even CEXs going bust yet. Not even a business days to fully reel in the damage

Rafnel

There will be no response because they have no idea lol. "Market maker" is just an evil boogeyman term thrown around on investing subs. 95% here wouldn't even be able to define what a MM does without googling.

__Butterflyeffect__

This was no crash this was intentional MM move. They now realize profits and simultaneously go long to close the gap and vice versa. This was no crash because people don't believe in Bitcoin anymore. Narratives don't change yet

fizikxy

If I was Trump i'd be crying tears of joy for having manipulated my followers into being so deranged and obsessed with me that they are now blaming Leverage for this event. How hard is it for people to accept that this was a coup between Trump&Friends + CEX/MM's? A "dip" of this size does not happen randomly due to a tarriff announcement lmao. They timed it deliberately so people would shift blame onto "markets reacting to tarriffs", but even they couldn't predict that MAGAts would now make leverage the boogeyman.

namieorange

Got it. Could also be rebalancing accounts after the crash where they MM. Many orderbooks got emptied after the crash

dataCollector42069

except the previous time didn't cause all MMs to pull out and show how fragile this coin is without MM liquidity.

Djamt

I've been in crypto since 2017, one of the biggest lessons I've learnt is not to trade leverage, so I spot trade and also have bags, so this dump didn't affect me at all. It's not under attack, it's a leverage flush, a big one, MM's can't control a market with that much leverage in the system. Everyone talks about buying low and selling high, but when the time comes to buy low, nobody does.....

dataCollector42069

I work in the financial markets and knew most of the volume was all MM. Was quite interesting to see how thin the books were without them. Retail doesn't give a fuck about crypto, its mainly MMs waving their dicks at each other

bizaroo933

If Gary Gensler was in charge, MM’s and exhanges would never dare do this much manipulation. With their hero Trump they do what they want. Crypto president my ass.

namieorange

Yep that's why I'm saying we're in a scam market. MM, exchanges and whales dont ever care to put an act anymore

Subject-Reindeer-671

Chance of Bitcoin going to $1 MM…..very high

aBBazaBBa321

Sry foe the newb question but How do you mean use leverage and MM is bait? I'm new to the coin as of this year and I just DCA when I can. I'm currently using strike, is there a way to tell if you're up without adding every single transaction.

DaveyJonesXMR

MM's/Whales are just doing what they should be doing if there ever is gonna be another FOMO cycle. Not allowing free riders in. Thats why buy and hold till your comfy probably is the best strategy.

EarlyIsland

slippage insane bc alot of MM stop quoting when these type of things happen

bitaurusmaximus

How someone can foresee the happening checking on LTC which is light years away from its peak? That’s a crazy indicator. The whole crypto reaction is ridiculous and done by manipulating MM players and crypto platforms. I buy the dip with leverage and tight SL, not holding anymore any coin except BTC.

VillanOne

Banks, broker, MM, whales and China liquidating Marge is calling and don't forget to keep staking

GengisKhansLeftNut

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy even. And I would not be surprised if the MM morons overleverage/run out and panic because they are dumb and greedy.

bizaroo933

MM’s can proudly announce another ‘BREAKING: MORE THEN 1 BILLION LONGS GOT LIQUIDATED’. Fuck this market

_that_random_dude_

I’m an eth bagholder since 2021. This shit has been stressing me out a lot, especially the last few weeks. My average buy was about $2000, dca’d out as it climbed up. I had half of it waiting to sell above $5000, but god damn it has been really stressing me out these ups and downs. I just sold while it was falling an hour ago. I thought I would be sad about the missed opportunity of selling higher or mooning. But let me tell you man minutes after selling I feel so much lighter. All that stress is just gone. I locked in my profits, and honestly I don’t care if it goes to $10k now. The mental strain is really not worth it. And I doubt it’s going above $5k at this point tbh. If you’re already in reasonable profit, just sell it man. It’s so much better for your mental health. Not an investment advice but more a mental health one lol. Good luck to the rest of the gamblers here. I’m out, and probably won’t be back for a long time. MM and whales fucked up by scaring the retail this much, let’s see if many of them will ever come back