UVXY

Dumbest-Questions

> These funds don't have dividends or high borrow fees, afaik, so no, you're not getting assigned early on calls. Obviously, no divs but these products do have fairly high borrow rates (e.g ~5% on UVXY right now which that's actually on the low side). The early-X aspect is specific to these ETPs, actually, and mostly unrelated to the financing. > I don't think you understand the mechanics or how they apply to this specific conversation about box spreads in these products. You're right, I've never traded a box on any of these because that would be silly. But rest assured, (a) I understand the mechanics of early exercise and funding pretty fucking well since I used to run a corporate derivatives book and (b) more importantly, we do a fair bit of vol RV between VIX ETPs and VIX options so I deal with these specific options on daily basis.

80s_JDM

VIX UVIX UVXY VILX VIXL Gang Rise Up

80s_JDM

UVXY Short Volume -> Suspiciously Low Today

tribbans95

You can not buy shares of VIX, it is an index. What you can buy, the VIX-linked ETPs (VXX, UVXY) experience severe, compounding, and consistent decay (often 48%-59% annually)

CEO-of-SOXL

I think they make electrical sockets. What do I know I studied at UVXY

oprah_2024

got into some UVXY weeklies, hope that volatility crush tomorrow https://preview.redd.it/38s4e3k1gphg1.png?width=1102&format=png&auto=webp&s=60e3498e4cab0e85bd9967b37d9056c61f640b41

Different_Monitor_34

UVXY

IDoLikeMyShishkebabs

UVXY seeing some action

MechanicalDan1

When VIX drops to yearly lows, load the boat because the UVXY tsunami is coming.

MechanicalDan1

UVXY, but that's not for beginners.

DeciduousMath12

If you want to bet on it, vix related etfs. Like UVIX or UVXY.

Dowy88

Just buy a few UVXY LEAPS as insurance

Lower_Compote_6672

Try trading $UVXY

theteenswillloveit

UVXY time?

Lower_Compote_6672

I have been making money shorting this turd since last year. This wasn't an earnings play, but I did sell the strike after earnings purposefully. I do play $VIX via $UVXY. Got paid thanks to orange Greenland tantrum, got paid today on $34 puts i sold yesterday, 50 percent gain at cob today. I am not playing for a market wide pullback. I am long $NVDA and other names.

daviddjg0033

Yes VXX call or UVXY shares. Agree and agree

Jupiter168

UVXY up

NativePlant870

UVXY calls and spy puts will print tomorrow

T4ylor1

I'm going into the week holding \~33% UVXY. Looking forward to tomorrow. Watch it somehow open green though..

greyenlightenment

amazing how some random person online invented the best trading method: hedging bad news by shorting btc.way better than VXX.UVXY or puts.

Opposite_Engine_6776

Bears watching their VIX and UVXY calls vaporize.

Much_Candle_942

Just buy UVXY?

SHIBashoobadoza

My UVXY calls! 🤤

No_Feeling920

What is the idea behind the UVXY long dated put at 40? Isn't most of the decay already priced in?

ButtExterminator

Can’t buy UVXY shares though 

andy-change-world

https://preview.redd.it/so3ckzslkgeg1.jpeg?width=1320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4d71605d8b8cf4f4b6b2e89f199ff9fd32f6e42 Don’t say it is fake. These was trading history for last Thursday and Friday. It is managed by AI. It makes no sense if I bought $100k UVXY by myself.

greyenlightenment

crypto is the only thing that dumps no matter what. or UVXY

T4ylor1

I’m really hoping tomorrow is blood red because I’m pretty heavy on UVXY

Putrid_Leg_1474

Tomorrow might be a good day to short VIX in some way. I'll be looking at ATM, VIX, UVXY, and VXX put spreads. But I'm sure you all think spreads are regarded. For those that must buy calls out of stubbornness, some extremely liquid SVXY leaps will do the trick

Boys4Ever

UVXY for the short term because it’s never happened before and I’m talking getting passed the senate otherwise just trade stupid crap like coins because senate never going to allow it.

RedlightAlpha

Historically, betting on a VIX spike just because it’s at lows is a classic trap known as 'Volatility compression. VIX can stay depressed for months while the market grinds higher. In those conditions, some traders avoid long volatility products (like UVXY calls) because the time decay tends to be severe. Instead, looking at cheap OTM puts on the indices is often considered a more capital efficient way to hedge if one is worried about a sudden correction. But generally, "cheap vol" often stays cheap longer than people expect.

DISAPPOINTING_FAIRY

monthly UVXY calls > 0-1 DTE SPY puts

BHeo

!banbet UVXY $40 12d

Bubbly_Buffalo0815

Easy: every leveraged volatility product, like UVXY or UVIX

RoccoFb

!Banbet UVXY $40 1D

mathboom123

Remember those days where we UVXY actually moves and we would trade on them?

ResponsibleAnt8049

UVXY has to be the most consistently manipulated ticker out of all.

SHIBashoobadoza

I need one of those crazy VIX days so my Feb UVXY calls print

IslandExact429

Shorting silver has been added to my peak retardation list I was mega long, got chucked by COMEX, and decided the party was over In the bucket with $PZZA, UVXY, and some other retard stocks Either i lack all intelligence or on the wrong side of history

POpportunity6336

UVXY is the one that lost 100% of value over its lifetime?

rwaters71

Very interesting indicators... Can't your total "Hedge index" be simplified by using simply the VIX3M/VIX ratio and get the same signals? I wouldn't buy UVXY to hedge either. Note that it is trending down over long periods 1Y+. All Futures based ETFs trend down over long periods of time.

Anxious_Comparison77

$MSTR price swings is due to borrowing and leveraging. So when it tanks, it tanks hard the drop is cumulative effect of leverage and interest payments. But if bitcoin goes up. $MSTR will soar. $BTC is down \~30% from last summer, $MSTR is down \~66%. If bitcoin trends down again over the next few months, $MSTR could break below $100 per share due to the way it finances it bitcoin purchases. It's risky, there is always downward pressure at all times that $MSTR cannot escape. It's kind of like going long on $UVXY in my eyes. It'll pay off if you are right, I wouldn't hold it long term.

merchant91

UVXY is a bear slide. Any long term investment will go to near 0

meowpowchow

Yeah, this isn’t mean, it’s just reality UVXY is *designed* to bleed over time. It’s not a “down stock,” it’s decay doing exactly what it’s supposed to do. Selling and moving on is usually the least bad option here. Covered calls won’t fix a structurally losing product, they just slow the bleed while adding risk.

FAMUgolfer

Get out. Get out. Get out. UVXY is to show volatility. There is no uptrend in the last 5 years. Just very very short spikes.

pain474

You are not going to make any money with selling CCs. Take the loss. You clearly do not know what you're doing. UVXY is not a stock.

txos8888

I hope this is a joke. UVXY is not a stock. It is a financial product that goes down in value by design. It is intended to be purchased for short term speculation on volatility spikes. Seek help.

Fishherr

$200 > $4800 of an SPX put during the April crash lol.. 0DTE wins. Idk if that counts Did also $350 > $4000-5000 on UVXY options during that time.

Exotic-Indication419

UVXY

alphaneon22

My biggest wins came from DKNG, HIMS, FUBO, UVXY, PLTR and CNC.

tropicalia84

VXX and UVXY with a complete dump We have seen the low for SPY today for a long, LONG time

accountshelp

“UVXY” but remember to sell and not be greedy…

reasontree

UVXY 2 da MOOOOON!

Legitimate-Sock2188

UVXY it is

Lake-Dependent

VIX still so low good time for UVXY calls

Lake-Dependent

Is VIX calls even worth it? Or UVXY better?

Lake-Dependent

better to buy UVXY calls or just straight VIX?

Lake-Dependent

UVXY weekly calls a bad idea?

PracticalAnywhere225

UVXY being driven down, near the yearly low... something is brewing. Probably won't be Christmas week, but soon after.

IslandExact429

I lost $150k this year on UVXY. Life is no bed of roses

IslandExact429

Just did my final calculations I burnt $150k this year on UVXY Nice

Jupiter168

**UVXY** all time low

Jupiter168

**UVXY**

No_Feeling920

He has UVIX, not UVXY (not that it makes much of a difference here).

YachtOrNothing

UVIX and UVXY are jokes. I wish there was a straight vix play.

jsie-iaiqhsi816278

!banbet UVXY 60 6h

Lower_Compote_6672

I have been printing since July by selling 30dte puts on UVXY when VIX is low and then buying to close at a profit when it spikes. I haven't ever been assigned and needed to sell covered calls but perhaps selling 7dte cc would work on assignment.

breakyourteethnow

"omnidirectional win theta, win delta" frankenstructure.", I love this lol it's so good. You have very deep understanding. You're right, am trying to perfectly hedge for everything and not possible. Something has to give. My main objective was to do something more with my LEAPS than just sitting there waiting for fundamental drift. This structure allows me to accomplish my principal objective, which is goal only had in mind for a while. However, this is just another tool in the toolbox which much match appropriate market conditions. This structure during earnings, VIX coming down after a big pop, any macro catalysts then it's best to close. This is for flat price action to down price action, with minimal grind upwards. * This I do believe to be an edge if vix is low to medium. The structure is a theta + drift harvester, not a gamma bet. High VIX = gamma is expensive = short gamma structures get punished. So this belongs in low-to-mid VIX, slow grind, or uncertain but not explosive environments. * The edge for when VIX is high is purely selling cash secured puts on positions want to go long on, capturing mispriced vol. * Aside from that, the only other edge have is using IRA for tax advantages to take advantage of fundamental drift going long delta exposure with max date LEAPS, where market makers cannot accurately price vol. so far out so LEAPS + IRA are an edge if can pick the right underlying's. This is where my research has led me to, believing this is the small edges could build in the market revolving around the principal stocks drift upwards 57% of the time, and extrinsic value minus time decay = 0. So selling theta both sides while going long in low to medium VIX environments is the first edge. Going long with CSP's during high vix environment to capture mispriced vol. is second edge. And third edge is mispriced vol. with tax advantages by going long LEAPS in IRA, rolling down and out whenever market sells off to capture the rebound with plenty of time. **Question**: What do you think of these three edges? Are they true edges? **Pending Idea**: The other idea is buying UVXY shares, selling OTM calls to capture gain when market sells off, then repurchase LEAPS at cheaper prices with more capital. Double positive, 10-20% UVXY share pop, repurchase LEAPS sometimes 30% cheaper with more capital. Each cycle can nearly double port. However, timing UVXY is so ungodly hard. You have to use it reactionary after structural change has taken place only on events like tariffs April 1st, Gov. shutdown Oct. 1st. Or if gamma position of dealers changes which am still learning about, something retail doesn't study and can give good indicator when VIX will pop, like the 2nd pop in Nov. for VIX when gamma positioning changed and everyone wondering why market was selling off so hard.

GneissFrog

Vol sellers came in hard, as expected for an FOMC week, but I thought they'd back off a bit after ORCL and AVGO dented the AI trade. Instead, they doubled down after the morning dip and kept all those put values suppressed. I suspect they won't buyback vol until later next week, which means I'll be sitting on UVIX and UVXY bags for a few more days :/

e30jawn

Yeah VIX and UVXY do seem mild for the day we had. Weird.

GneissFrog

Wild week. Made a hefty bag today betting against semiconductors (SOXS ftw) but the absolutely filthy shenanigans going on with VIX futures right now completely wrecked my UVIX and UVXY positions.

SargeMaximus

Added UVXY

IslandExact429

Why is VVIX up 6% but UVXY down 2%?

breakyourteethnow

"You don’t predict VIX. You wait for the catalyst that forces hedging. Event → Uncertainty → Bid for protection → VIX spikes No event → No uncertainty → No protection flow → UVXY bleeds The only spikes worth targeting come from event risk, NOT normal scheduled macro. Government shutdowns, tariffs, extreme geopolitical escalation, credit freezes, unexpected rate decisions, black swans. April and October were easy set-ups tariffs & government shutdown. VIX is reactionary and the reaction takes place when uncertainty births from an event. Strategically rotating into UVXY when something *big enough* forces uncertainty. I think may actually be able to pull this off. You don't predict ever the VIX, you react with it in real time, only when actual structural shocks hit the market and force hedging flows. VIX doesn’t move on opinions, it moves on events. Thanks for the luck." Copied comment from before. I probably won't enter VIX this week, it has to be because of a real external structural changing binary event. Something like rate decisions won't create the volatility rip am looking for. This strategy would've only done twice this year, April tariffs and October government shut down. Nothing else. So, we're probably on same page this week lol

breakyourteethnow

*You don’t predict VIX. You wait for the catalyst that forces hedging.* Event → Uncertainty → Bid for protection → VIX spikes No event → No uncertainty → No protection flow → UVXY bleeds The only spikes worth targeting come from event risk, NOT normal scheduled macro. Government shutdowns, tariffs, extreme geopolitical escalation, credit freezes, unexpected rate decisions, black swans. April and October were easy set-ups tariffs & government shutdown. VIX is reactionary and the reaction takes place when uncertainty births from an event. Strategically rotating into UVXY when something *big enough* forces uncertainty. I think may actually be able to pull this off. Thanks for the luck.

breakyourteethnow

I get why this looks insane from the outside. Timing volatility isn’t like timing a stock, it’s timing a regime shift. UVXY bleeds 95% of the time and only pays out during the 5% when fear actually spikes. Most people look at that and say "don't". What I’m doing is building a framework around macro signals, TA confirmation, event risk, and volatility structure so that I’m only exposed during the window where VIX actually has a reason to move. I’m not blindly buying UVXY and praying. I’m rotating out of LEAPS when macro conditions flash red, capturing a controlled 10–20% volatility pop, then rotating back into long-term positions at discounted prices. Is it insanely hard? *Absolutely.* The execution window is small, and being early is expensive. It's conceptually brilliant but mechanically brutal requiring an emotional discipline only few have. It's elite timing if even possible. I’m fully aware of the difficulty. Look at when VIX popped, it reacts to change, you cannot predict the pop. Meaning, government shut down day-of was time to buy, or the day before tariffs were announced on April. You have to wait for actual date of event to play out and uncertainty to be the reaction and capitalize then. It's 98% of the time in LEAPS, 2% of the time in UVXY timing the elevator drops. VERY HARD TO DO.

GneissFrog

I wouldn't necessarily say it is more complicated, it just has its own peculiarities that make it particularly dangerous, even for experienced traders, let alone beginners. The difference in liquidity, the devious expansion of bid-ask spreads, there are just different ways you can get screwed on VIX options. If you have an interest in VIX, I would suggest you first get very familiar with the VIX landscape as a whole before diving into VIX options. VIX futures, and how popular VIX ETFs like UVIX and UVXY are constructed, you'll want to be comfortable with all of these things before trading VIX options. Or, you might find that one of these other instruments better suits your needs than VIX options.

breakyourteethnow

You keep acting like the only two states are long or not long, but that’s exactly why you’re misunderstanding the setup. With UVXY, I’m not trying to be directionally long. I’m trying to structure the position so that IF a pop happens, I capture some intrinsic value *without* getting destroyed by the decay **i**f it doesn’t which is fine as well. UVXY is a mean reverting, structurally decaying product so the goal isn’t to ride upside dude. It’s to capture volatility dislocations while neutralizing the bleed. That’s not ‘being long UVXY’ in any meaningful risk framework. It’s building breakeven room on a product that naturally trends downward. If you flatten this into just "*you’re long!*" you’re ignoring the entire point of the construction.

breakyourteethnow

You keep saying “if” a lot too, you just don’t recognize it because your entire argument is built on a single assumption: UVXY behaves linearly with VIX futures and that futures traders price all meaningful tail risk perfectly. Both statements are objectively false.

breakyourteethnow

You're arguing against a strategy I never proposed, using assumptions that only make sense if you haven't actually traded volatility structures outside of textbook warnings. You're fixated on UVXY decay as if I didn’t already account for it in the math I showed you. Selling covered calls on UVXY is *not* a long-UVXY directional trade. It’s a structured way to capture mean reversion premium during decaying regimes, while forcing assignment only during the conditions where volatility backwardation gives you a statistical edge. You're also talking to me like I’m some guy who woke up yesterday and discovered VIX products. I literally corrected your breakeven math step-by-step. If you can’t get the arithmetic right, don’t condescend.

iron_condor34

You keep saying "if" a lot. Making up these scenarios in your head sounds great but they're more than likely not going to come to fruition. Here's another flaw in your thinking. You're quoting the VIX index? UVXY doesn't track the vix index, it tracks a basket of the front two vix futures contracts. Which are both trading higher than 16 right now. Vol traders are some of the smartest in the market, if you think we're going to get a spike in vol, have at it then.

breakyourteethnow

The Oct. and Nov. pops cost my LEAPS 35% draw down which could've been avoided. There were two ample opportunities with UVXY to conservatively lock in 15% twice, by just setting a sell order. You prove here you don't know math at all. I could've doubled my account, 15% growth, repurchasing LEAPS 35% cheaper. With just one of those pops, I could've doubled my port. Again, the risk to reward makes this so lucrative. You're going off general advice obviously 99% of people should never do what am proposing. So no. You are absolutely wrong. Even if you did get the spike, it would absolutely make your time worthwhile. You haven't even done the math on recent pops and look how you speak with such confidence. Confidently wrong.

Away-Personality9100

Yes. I collect money from covered calls, but not enough. Historically falls UVXY to fast. I lost over 30% of my portfolio. I short UVXY always, mostly if it goes up of course.

iron_condor34

It literally says in the prospectus to not buy and hold UVXY or you'll lose your investment. lol

breakyourteethnow

How long did you hold? No numbers just percentage what was your loss? Did you collect premium while going long? What macro events were you speculating on? I believe fed will begin jumbo rate cuts but is too far behind, jobs reports showing real cracks, PPI delayed, CPI will begin drifting back up, I suspect Jan. or Feb. will present volatility. SPY ran from April to Oct., no UVXY then, time to buy was last two pops. We've floored again, believe another pop due within 1-2 months after any potential santa rally. Haven't sold just yet.

iron_condor34

I would just not buy UVXY shares at all. That " if can time the pop within 1-3 months " is a big IF lol. Even if you did get a spike, that doesn't mean it's going to be big enough to make any of what you did worthwhile. We had that nice spike in Mar/Apr and then oct and nov weren't even close to the beginning of the year. Long vol etp's pretty much went straight down from the end of april until oct with a couple of blips here and there. But good luck timing vol spikes with your macro reading ability.

breakyourteethnow

Fair enough, I believe VIX at $16 with current administration, everything currently in the air, once seasonality of December is over next Jan. or Feb. absolutely believe UVXY will pop hard. Am waiting couple weeks to close port. Waiting for more divergences to appear. If QQQ starts selling off but SPY drifts higher we're about to see a real vol. pop

iron_condor34

I meant that being on the short vol side/being short uvxy. You're essentially not short UVXY since you're trading covered calls on them. You're long UVXY and it's going to bleed against you. Trying to time a spike in UVXY or vol in general is extremely hard. It's not worth it to do the way you're trying too.

Away-Personality9100

Yes, but UVXY makes often reverse splits and the price goes down and down. In the past, I tryed to buy and hold UVXY and I lost over 30K$. Since this time I only short and I collect very nice premium every week and make profit. So, everyone has own strategy. 🙂👍

breakyourteethnow

So you'd prefer to just let the shares drift? Do you understand the risk am trying to take on and what am trying to accomplish? If you collect premium you can offset contango, using shares paying no theta, if can time the pop within 1-3 months you're making money on UVXY pop, or closing at break even if fell behind and then rotating back to LEAPS for next leg up as VIX drops again. - You realize your comment, not collecting premium while holding shares of vol etp's *is an even worse idea?* If you don't have faith in your ability to read macro conditions, I'll be rotating to UVXY end of Dec. expecting vol. to pop in Jan. or Feb. this is strong probability and no contango won't ruin my position.

breakyourteethnow

Me too. He's wrong if one can effectively time UVXY pops within 2-3 months. Selling covered calls on ETP's, collecting premium to offset contango while awaiting vol. to pop or events/macro conditions to settle aka no pop and back to LEAPS. Would like your opinion on comment left.

breakyourteethnow

A lot of negative comments, I understand the complexity of what am doing. Nobody said timing the market would ever be easy. If I can time UVXY pops within 2 months, I can effectively buy more contracts for less, compounding delta exposure. This means rotating to UVXY about 2-3 times per year. Holding for 1-2 months. Selling CC's to collect premium to offset the contango otherwise. Shorting works as well but no intrinsic value gained which is the bread winner. I have not rotated yet. Great possibility of santa rally, I'll need to wait more like first week of Jan. to rotate into UVXY.

Away-Personality9100

I only short UVXY. Hige premium every week from calls and puts. 🙂💵

sharpetwo

Here is another view on it: sell the calls (indeed they are overpriced almost all the time) but do it in a reasonable amount. Worst case scenario that stuff blow up; congrats you are now short UVXY shares (due to come back down as soon as the VIX futures term structure is back in contango) so not a terrible position to be in. You can finance the borrow by selling ... puts. Main benefit: you do not have to time the spike. You also do not have to pay for the drift lower every single day. Your biggest risk: after months of quietly racking premium, you becoming increasingly confident and sell way too many calls and your account blow up. Make sure to always stick to strict management rules, and selling putting should help alleviate the pain.

breakyourteethnow

You have to ask for UVXY to grind down from here, SPY will have to break 7000. You think fed has started cutting rates on time? Never, they're too late like always. I think could get even bigger pop from VIX then ppl are expecting. Jobs reports is revealing the cracks, 10yr yields breaking out, Japan raising rates next week, am sure earnings in Feb. will show continued strong AI growth but until then with lowered volume during holiday season big sell-offs could happen here soon imo. Macro conditions must be evaluated extremely to play VIX correlated tickers especially leveraged imo.

breakyourteethnow

In six months time, if UVXY dumps from $46 to $23 or 50% loss, by selling .15 delta collecting $10 per day you can collect $2 per month or $12 of the downside offset. That's $11 drop instead or 24% loss instead of facing 50% loss. - So my point is, even worst case scenario has defenses in play. The question is, do you believe have the capabilities to predict macro conditions and effectively time the market? Let's say UVXY grinds down, take loss offset by selling covered calls, then can set your sell order to breakeven when next pop comes, transition into LEAPS again and ride the leg up as VIX dies down again. In an IRA, it's a sitting duck port you do not have access to margin nor diagonal spreads, nullifying any advantage trader can get. You can only take on asymmetrical delta exposure, directional bets utilizing leverage aka LEAPS. Which is only advantage IRA can get *but if still a still duck port.* No selling theta unless shares, no margin for juiced covered calls selling theta no edge. **Unless**, start to switch port to try to time market condition changes using UVXY defensively, to sell theta in an IRA, changing the port to a trading port and not a sitting duck port. That's how we can compound in an IRA to millions imo.

Connect_Boss6316

Hmmm. Interesting idea - have you seen how this would have behaved during prolonged (several weeks/months) of a slow drift up? The Uvxy shares will just keep decaying and decaying literally everyday and the covered calls you sell against them would have to be at lower and lower strikes. It could get to the point where your CC strike is lower than the net price you paid for the shares and if the market drops and UVXY shoots up, you've missed out on the profit. In fact, i'll have time in about a week from now and if you want me to test this for a particular period, just DM me. I have software where I can do manual backtests.

breakyourteethnow

My Plan: Am rotating entire port soon. Undecided if all at once or DCA into UVXY. Will sell covered calls on half the position with intention to roll up and out should strikes become breached. I want to await first two weeks of Jan. usually which says a lot of coming year. Believe a lot of volatility ahead is likely. Set sell order 20% otm, capture gains, avoid losses, reopen old LEAPS at better prices once macro looks better.

MedicaidFraud

Here you risk bag holding UVXY while it never reaches cost basis ever again

CapriKitzinger

You could consider selling a cash secured put on the UVXY. But you have to understand contengo.