VR

powerbrows

The Metaverse and VR is the 3DTV of this decade. While it may have some niche value, it'll never be mass adopted.

rain168

It would make sense since Apple is looking to invest further in Apple TV+ so a merger with Disney is perfect with all their IP from Marvel, Star Wars to Winnie the Pooh, and Disney movies and cartoons. Who knows maybe their rumored Apple AR/VR glasses could combo with the Disney theme parks, along with rumored Apple self driving cars to operate on smaller scale in Disney theme parks.

j4k3b

They'd kill it if they narrowed their focus to live sporting events and VR porn.

DarthBuzzard

> Despite decades of advancements the core gameplay of an Oculus is not much better then that of a virtua boy. Virtual Boy has nothing to do with VR though. Gameplay wise, Virtual Boy isn't in the same dimension.

Worried-Title8760

Yess! I have been saying this many times, it's so dumb that Zuckerberg focuses on VR when AR is the game changer. I would be first in line to the store if they brought AR glasses to show me a visual screen as I walk around etc. But the issue is the hardware of AR glasses which we will get to for sure, but it will take a lot of time.

Hire_Ryan_Today

I'm surprised then. To me VR is the most novel digital experience of the last decade.

KyivComrade

And you sound like the guy who backed *Zune, Ouya, HD DVD, 3D TV* and countless other field products and technological *dead ends*. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's good. Despite decades of advancements the core gameplay of an Oculus is not much better then that of a virtua boy. Even hardcore VR enthusiasts don't play for hours at an end...yet the most casual mobile gamer do.

Turinggirl

Yes actually. I even do VR development for work.

Hire_Ryan_Today

Have you ever actually used VR? The sensory experience is very unique.

zeromussc

I for one think VR could offer some super fun entertainment like video games with a little more time. Some interesting virtual vacation/film experiences too. I think it would be immensely cool for documentaries to be available in VR for example. But like, the price is obscenely prohibitive right now for immersive experiences like shorter films, documentaries etc. But why would I want to experience anything remotely mundane in VR? That recent folding ideas video encapsulated perfectly the issue with VR. No one wants the real world in virtual form. It's bad. Websites are more effective than weird virtual shopping carts and virtual aisles. As are real stores.

Rd21Bn

this is what will make it a big thing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/126p4yi/merging\_ai\_with\_avvr\_to\_create\_generative/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/126p4yi/merging_ai_with_avvr_to_create_generative/) AI + AR/VR = True Metaverse Just wait till they start training models based on MOVIES and create "GENERATIVE REALITIES" aka the REAL Metaverse. I can already see a future where you can type (or say) a prompt in VR with a description of the world, then a plotline like a movie, Star Wars, LOTR, etc., and it will generate an interactive movie environment and "reality" which you can "live in", with literally AI avatars of characters within that "realm" and a storyline or "quest" like interactive movie, like Skyrim, that you can playthrough. That's a trillion dollar market right there. And I gave ChatGPT this as a prompt and this is what it responded with: The concept of merging AI with AV/VR to create generative realities or a real Metaverse has a lot of potential for creating immersive and interactive experiences for users. The integration of artificial intelligence into virtual and augmented reality environments can enhance the level of interactivity and realism in these virtual spaces. Here are some possible outcomes of merging AI with AV/VR to create generative realities: 1. Personalized Experiences: With the help of AI, generative realities can create personalized experiences for users based on their interests, preferences, and behavior. The system can learn about the user's likes and dislikes, and then generate content that matches their preferences, making the experience more engaging and immersive. 2. Dynamic Content Creation: With the help of AI, generative realities can dynamically create content in real-time, depending on the user's input or behavior. For instance, the system can create a character or a scene in response to the user's prompt, and then allow the user to interact with it in real-time, creating a more dynamic and engaging experience. 3. Enhanced Interactivity: AI can help create more responsive and interactive environments in generative realities. The system can learn from the user's behavior and then generate responses that are more appropriate and engaging, creating a more immersive and interactive experience. 4. Improved Storytelling: With the help of AI, generative realities can create more compelling and engaging storylines. The system can learn from the user's behavior and then generate plotlines that are more engaging and immersive, creating a more captivating experience. Overall, the integration of AI with AV/VR to create generative realities has the potential to revolutionize the way we experience virtual and augmented reality environments. It can create personalized, dynamic, and interactive experiences that are more engaging and immersive, taking the concept of the Metaverse to a whole new level.

tdogger88

Meta hasn’t stopped the pursuit to create the metaverse. Anyone who says otherwise is just spewing BS. In time AR/VR glasses will become much cheaper and seamless to wear. Technology takes time.

pugwalker

VR is "the next big thing" yet there have been hardly any good VR games or experiences to prove the concept. It's been years and you would think they would have made something that looked remotely interesting.

stonesst

I’m talking about both, because they are highly intertwined and will become more so. A lot of the limitations on current VR headsets are solved by giving them a secondary AR/MR mode. There will always be purely VR headsets, and purely AR displays but I think the bulk of the market will have options for both depending on the context.

Turinggirl

As someone who works in tech I agree. I'm more confused about whether you're disagreeing with my assessment of meta or if you're disagreeing with my thoughts on VR. I think VR will always have a niche. I just don't personally think it's going to be the next thing.

DarthBuzzard

We both got downvoted, so I dunno. I often hear (including from you) that the sensory deprivation or isolating aspect of VR is a problem for the masses. If we just had VR/AR toggles, it wouldn't really solve the problem since you'd still be isolated in VR, just with the option to switch to AR. With a blending of the two using real world overlays in virtual environments as seen in my link, you get the immersion of VR and the safety/grounding of real world up to as much detail as you need. Just want to see your coffee mug? Or want to see your dog, brother, and keyboard+mouse for a virtual office scenario? Both will be possible. The metaverse isn't meant to only be in VR. Meta and others want to build the metaverse across every device. Mobile/PC/Console and of course VR as well as AR. If it's ever a thing, this might even mean VR/AR users communicating through portals/reconstructions from one world to another. I mean that's already a thing, but this would ideally apply to a world scale.

Turinggirl

Effectively yes. Mixed reality goes about the weakness of vr in my opinion, the wrong way. Also I don't know who downvoted you. Your analogy was great and I agree. The point I was trying to make originally (and failed at) wasn't that VR in and of itself is bad, just that the metaverse in only VR was and is a bad idea because it will reduce the amount of time and places where people can engage with the product.

DarthBuzzard

A good parallel is PCs versus smartphones. Sure, smartphones are several times larger, but did that stop PCs from having a large impact worldwide with a sustainable mass market? AR could be the smartphone and VR could be the PC. As for MR, I'm not sure what you mean by "the primary input to the user is entirely provided by the device" - you mean that it is a passthrough device that once shut off will leave you blinded?

TechnicalWhore

Cramer has to say something. You do not have to listen to him. It was interesting this morning on CNBC. Now they are floating the rumor that Apple should buy Disney. This after they destroyed Meta for spending too much on Metaverse R&D. As you must know Apple just announced their new product will debut in June. It is a AR/VR headset. targeted at the Metaverse. So you told the market leader to quit maintaining share. Now you are telling Apple to lose focus and make a mammoth acquisition that serves no purpose. These guys are just clueless. Of course they will contradict themselves at some point and in the future only play the footage of which call was correct.

DarthBuzzard

While software rather than hardware, neural networks were dormant for multiple decades. It's just empty time. Sure, VR headsets might not be considered compelling today, but given the immaturity of the tech, that's normal. Were early PCs and TVs compelling? No, not to average people. There's really no way to describe the actual tech as immature. An engineer can see that plain as day given that you are dealing with a 720p perceived clarity bulky devices with slow input, that can cause nausea, headaches, eye strain, and have tracking problems, isolation problems, and isn't well accommodating for glasses users. There's also no mouse-like device or touch-screen interface equivalent advancement.

Turinggirl

Part of my job is working with the technology. Mixed reality is at it's core still going to suffer similar issues in that the primary input to the user is entirely provided by the device which is inherently limiting. An Augmented reality solution that can be packaged well will decimate the current VR industry. When I was growing up I watched an anime called Dennou Coil and it really shaped my perception and drove me toward my current career path. The show does a great job of providing great examples of the potential of Augemented Reality. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den-noh\_Coil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den-noh_Coil) However there is a darker side to AR. This is what I hope to not see in the future. As I stated before I'm not a proponent of the future this film depicts...honestly this looks really dystopian but it shows what AR might look like in real life and not in anime. [https://youtu.be/YJg02ivYzSs](https://youtu.be/YJg02ivYzSs) I'm not saying that VR won't go away forever. I just think it's not going to be the technology to bet long on.

Emotional_Squash9071

Doesn’t the fact that it was dormant for 20 years give you some clue about its future popularity? VR isn’t gonna make it my friend. I really can’t think of another medium in the modern age that went through such a lull and then became dominant. Certainly not radio/tv/internet. I’ve used various VR sets on multiple occasions, they aren’t compelling. Maybe more importantly, they pretty much require your full attention while in use. Part of the appeal of other mediums is that they don’t require that level of involvement.

DarthBuzzard

> The concept is flawed from the start. Using it requires you to basically put on a sensory deprivation device so that it can then provide you with sensory That's current technology. People will never be able to predict the advances Meta makes. Example: VR headsets will continue to morph into MR headsets so that eventually you can stay grounded in both the virtual and real world, which sounds weird but the idea is you'd have elements of the real world overlayed into VR so that the immersion is still there, but you get to keep an eye on objects and people in the real world. Essentially this, without the greenscreen: https://twitter.com/skarredghost/status/1302694306457825280 VR will remain a home activity, and that's fine. There's a 1.5 billion user TV market and 1+ billion user PC market for homes. People forget just how popular home devices can be. Not everything needs to be the smartphone.

VeeHS

I have a very large commercial space. I wanted to play the VR boxing game, but due to the dimensions of my space I could never make full use of the ring despite having 1500 square feet of space. I think the VAST majority of people are priced out of having an optimal VR experience until there is some sort of affordable thing like the people in ready player one stand on.

VonNeumannsProbe

>Augmented Reality on the other hand, when done right WILL take over the world in an almost literal way. I'm not saying I like the idea of the future with what AR might look like (especially considering the advertisement opportunities) however it makes more sense than VR and the metaverse. Honestly, this is probably why the graphics are dogshit. They need to create a world that is viewable and compatible with all devices. VR just gives you full immersion.

stonesst

Ah, there’s one more thing you’re missing. These devices are no longer purely VR headsets. As we enter the age of mixed reality your headset will be able to switch seamlessly between displaying a virtual environment, or overlaying virtual items over your real world surroundings. In that case you could just extend your current 40/50/60 inch TV to fill an entire wall, while still being able to see your surroundings and removing the feeling of isolation. The quest pro and other headsets are already capable of this, but the Passthrough mode is grainy and not quite depth accurate. Once that gets solved it’ll be a total game changer. I admit the VR is currently very niche, and that it’s not highly desired. It doesn’t have to be desired by the general public for development to continue, and killer apps/form factors to be created. This is one of those areas where Henry Ford’s famous saying feels pretty apt, “ if I’d asked people what they wanted they would’ve said a faster horse“. Market research based on what’s currently available will never get answers that accurately reflect peoples responses when new technology is actually on the market. Only the biggest of VR nerds and people working in the industry know what’s actually around the corner, and as you said we are quite a minority at the moment.

Turinggirl

The problem is even then it won't take off. The concept is flawed from the start. Using it requires you to basically put on a sensory deprivation device so that it can then provide you with sensory. That means instead of fb where you can use it at work, or while on a train or bus, you need to be somewhere where it you don't need sensory input from the outside. This is why fundamentally I think the metaverse and VR in general will only ever be niche. Augmented Reality on the other hand, when done right WILL take over the world in an almost literal way. I'm not saying I like the idea of the future with what AR might look like (especially considering the advertisement opportunities) however it makes more sense than VR and the metaverse.

cinefun

You and other VR enthusiasts are outliers though. Gaming is not inherently better in VR, watching a movie on a simulated imax screen via a headset (or glasses or whatever) is not inherently better than watching a movie on your big screen tv. Most people I have had conversations with, casually, and professionally via market research don’t like the isolation. Look, I’d love it if VR was as desired as y’all suggest. It would mean more work and opportunities for me.

stonesst

You’re making the mistake of judging the potential of this market on current content and hardware limitations. Gaming can and will be inherently better in VR. It doesn’t need to be full motion tracking, you can sit stationary and play a flat game on a larger screen than you have access to/could afford in real life. Movies and shows have the same benefit, I can’t wait to watch stuff on a massive virtual screen as if I have my own cinema right at home. I would do that right now with my current headsets, but they are a bit too uncomfortable to be worn while sitting still and leaning your head back for a couple hours. It’s not like we’ve reached some kind of plateau and the technology is as good as it will ever be. We are in VR’s infancy. Headsets will get significantly lighter, screens will get good enough to match what’s perceived by human vision, content for these devices will also get significantly better thanks to developers hopping on board and the potential to have fully customizable environments auto generated by AI. Future headsets will all come with a tracking Belton, face tracking, full body tracking, and within a decade rudimentary neural inputs. the number of simultaneous developments in this field is pretty staggering. I totally understand where you’re coming from, and I shared your same scepticism maybe five years ago. As I’ve spent more time using these devices and reading everything I can about what’s around the corner I am fully convinced this will be a widespread mainstream consumer-electronics category within the next decade.

cinefun

All applications are niche though. Gaming isn’t inherently better in VR, and many gamers actually don’t care for VR and prefer monitor w/ mouse/keyboard or controller. Movies and shows don’t really work as those are passive experiences. Most people keep their cameras off and stay on mute on zoom and teams unless required. Sure some companies may push vr meetings, but that won’t happen unless the user base is already well established (so in my view, never). There are uses in art, modeling, crafting l, etc, but that’s case by case and niche. Again, I am not outright disparaging VR, but it’s not the game changer a lot of y’all think it is, and I sincerely doubt it ever will be.

stonesst

It’s a lot more apt of a comparison than you’re realizing. It’s a general computing device which can do games, productivity and entertainment just like a PC. They will be primarily used in peoples homes/offices. VR headset specifically won’t be something you bring around with you all day long, so the smartphone analogy falls apart. But as a high-powered computing device that you use a couple hours a day to get things done/have a good time it’s pretty damn analogous to a PC.

FUWS

Meta will need to hand out free VR sets if they want people on it.

Christianman01

META may or may not be the company to create the metaverse, but it'll absolutely be a real thing that people will be using for working, games and entertainment. Use your imagination a little bit, the VR headsets won't always be bulky af and the graphics look like they're 20 years behind the newest PC releases. Companies will rent virtual officespace from the metaverse, when it'll become convenient enough. You can monitor people like in an actual office while not paying millions for the rent.

josephbenjamin

I want Morbius type room where the whole room is covered in screen, like in Matrix. I guess with VR headset that might actually be possible.

Wise-Application-144

True, but my point is those are separate businesses from the Metaverse. Better graphics, and better 3D headsets mainly involve hardware tech, and there is demand for them across video games, cinema, telecoms etc. VR headsets are compatible with more than just the Metaverse, and my point is I'm not convinced that the Metaverse itself has a market niche. ​ Having good headsets != metaverse demand.

frsbrzgti

Spend $400 to buy Xbox and get two handsets. Play with friend. Spend $400 on VR headset and play with yourself.

pragmojo

PCs had very obvious real world utility from the very beginning. People that needed them, for word processing, or calculation, or programming, had a use for them right away. They allowed people do do things they could not do before, or to do things orders of magnitude faster than they did before. Yes some people bought PC's who didn't need them, but for the people who did need them they represented a massive increase in productivity. What can you do in VR which you can't do without it? You can still play video games, do remote meetings, and watch porn without VR. VR is just a different version of that which some people find interesting, but can you point to a thing which VR enables which actually produces value beyond novelty?

Alien-wacko

For fucks sake, it doesn't even exist yet. It is still sci Fi. Man Zuck was a genius by rebranding. People now think he has a product called "Metaverse" when all he has is a VR headset, an app store, and a VR Lego/chat application.

tornumbrella

I am not slsaying they're not popular, but all you have to do is look at the quests. It's selling relatively well (for a VR headset), but literally every single complaint has to do with Facebook the company, not the vr product they deliver. If every single criticism of an otherwise exceptional product and an exceptional price is strictly about the company, you probably have an image problem. Now Zuck has publicly gone all in on the metaverse, and bungled it's first public showing so badly they've had to talk it down at every shareholder meeting. Now every other tech company has a chance to build their own "metaverse" and all they have to do is point at meta's metaverse and say "at least we're not that" Meta will do fine in the near term. As you say Facebook and Instagram are still the kings to beat in the social media world, but the metaverse is a hot dumpster fire and now needs serious rework and rebranding to get rid of the mocking jeers from just about everyone who's heard of it

DarthBuzzard

Consoles were purchasable in 1972. The first consumer VR headsets released in 1995, and were only on shelves for a few years. Then the entire space disappeared until products released again in 2015/2016. Empty space doesn't make sense to count since technology matures, ecosystems develop, and standards are realized only when investment exists.

Emotional_Squash9071

Dude, VR as a concept and something you can actually purchase has been around almost as long as game consoles. It’s not like it started in 2015. There have been different VR iterations since the 1980s.

cinefun

You are also neglecting the fact that people (consumers) have been wanting VR for a long long time, and now that it’s finally here, they don’t much care for it.

cinefun

You are still comparing VR to the advent of personal computing, there’s really no comparison. It’s like comparing motorized tricycles to the advent of the automobile.

cinefun

The nitpicks are nitpicks and easy quick critiques, but as a whole I have overwhelmingly heard “not for me” or “neat I guess, but I’ll never use it” in casual encounters, as well as in market research. If everyone had the enthusiasm for VR that you do, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

DarthBuzzard

> The only people faulting the hardware are the small minority who thinks VR will ever be something beyond a niche product. Most people who have tried VR faults the hardware. You hear less comments like "I tried VR but I'm not interested in immersive virtual worlds" and more comments like "It made me sick", "I got a headache", "It was too blurry", "It didn't fit my glasses", "It was uncomfortable", "It felt too isolating", "It's too janky" > I’m merely stating that the opportunity for mass adoption has come and gone. This isn't true though. You cannot state this as an absolute statement. You have no evidence.

VallenValiant

That already exists, it is called VR Chat. Metaverse is trying to be G-rated and with no copyright violations, which is why it is no fun..

cinefun

Most of the complaints and shortcomings have nothing to do with hardware, many people who are content with the hardware fall off of VR after the initial novelty wears off. The only people faulting the hardware are the small minority who thinks VR will ever be something beyond a niche product. Niche products have their place, I’m merely stating that the opportunity for mass adoption has come and gone.

DarthBuzzard

It does match consumer behaviour, because the complaints and shortcomings and uninterest that people describe after having used VR are mostly a function of the hardware. Of course some people may just never have an interest in even perfect simulated worlds Matrix-style, which is why I said mostly rather hardware rather than entirely hardware. It even matches past consumer behaviour because all past trends show that consumers only adopt mature hardware. This includes predecessors to the Switch. People did not care about game consoles in the 1970s, and Nintendo's first console was a niche product, and their second finally went mainstream later on in the generation, but that was 15 years after the first console (Magnavox Odyssey) released. We have to look at this from the early days of consoles, not with the mature console market of today involving Nintendo Switch. VHS/HD-DVD aren't relevant in this discussion. They had viable replacements. If you want to replace VR the same way, you need viable technology, and there is nothing even in a laboratory that is close to being viable. You'd need holographic projection to the naked eye that actually produces comparable results to VR. That's a pipedream for the next 10 years, and probably still won't be viable even another 10 years after.

cinefun

There was a period meta was selling the quest 2 for less than the cost of a switch, it was well reviewed and it didn’t move. In a time everyone and there mother were at home, looking for experiences to kill the boredom. It doesn’t matter if the hardware were nominally better. As a whole, people just don’t care about VR the way the tech set wants them to.

HoriOri

It wasn't that people aren't interested in it, it's just too expensive for what it is. Why spend a grand on a VR setup and another couple grand for a PC that can run it when I can buy a monitor and a lesser PC for half as much and get better frags in games?

Rd21Bn

People genuinely have no idea what is coming in the upcoming "AI Bubble" and the "metaverse" AI + AR/VR = True Metaverse Just wait till they start training models based on MOVIES and create "GENERATIVE REALITIES" aka the REAL Metaverse.

Rd21Bn

>Oh yeah, I bet no one will think to use AI to make metaverse more realistic. You can just use it to write your school papers, nothing else. People genuinely have NO IDEA what's coming. AI + VR/AR IS the Metaverse. People just don't realize it yet. Imagine "real-life"-like interactive avatars and movies of "generative realities". Just look at the Metahumans tech from Unreal Engine 5 and what they're developing rn.

sacred_oak_nutsack

Its a complete joke. I worked for the original Oculus VR before and during acquisition. Zuckerfuck sacked most of the talent during the first couple years after acquisition, and has been forcing this poorly conceived meta-verse since. The quality reflects the internal enthusiasm for the product and the shit “talent” they’ve kept around.

Rd21Bn

>we will see as soon as june, when apple releases their headset. which btw, most people are saying it's just for AR. from reports I've been seeing lately, it will be VR also. > >https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/why-apples-first-vr-headset-may-not-be-the-one-you-buy/ > >Tim Cook wants the apple headset to be his "iphone moment" to have a lasting legacy like Steve. > >If apple can pull it off. Meta will benefit from the legitimization of AR/VR, which people are still currently stigmatized about.

Rd21Bn

we will see as soon as june, when apple releases their headset. which btw, most people are saying it's just for AR. from reports I've been seeing lately, it will be VR also. [https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/why-apples-first-vr-headset-may-not-be-the-one-you-buy/](https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/why-apples-first-vr-headset-may-not-be-the-one-you-buy/) Tim Cook wants the apple headset to be his "iphone moment" to have a lasting legacy like Steve. If apple can pull it off. Meta will benefit from the legitimization of AR/VR, which people are still currently stigmatized about.

Cryptonomancer

Sorry, wasn't clear, I mean Atari the company imploded. Didn't have internet at the time, but a lot of stores in BFE where I lived had Atari cartridges in a big glass case. Saving up the money to go buy a new game from Alco was big on my event list, so I may be biased. So to me it seemed like the 2600 did usher in the home video game age (there was coleco vision and others, but they didn't seem as popular as Atari at all). Then it seemed to lull for a few years till NES came along with a major leap forward in graphics/games (at least in my mind at the time, not sure Ninja Gaiden would impress anyone now). I've played a little on the Quest 2, but maybe I'm old, wasn't too excited. I thought dr. grordbort's invaders on magic leap was actually a very good demo of what a an ar/vr game could do, but they pivoted away from consumer games. I'm sure the VR setups with a treadmill thing etc. are also cool, but doesn't look like something for the house. If Nintendo releases a monocle or some silly glasses in a couple years, maybe that'll actually be the VR time.

DarthBuzzard

The point I am making is that you can never know if VR will take off unless the hardware matures. Only then will you actually know the answer. Not today. You can't know today.

skeezysteev

I think this is the way. Augmented reality has amazing potential as a job aid (navigation, KPIs, training) but VR as a whole is so immersive visually that I find it a bit tiring. It is quite immersive but it feels like simulated stimulation overload (sights, sounds, vibration.. soon taste and smell!!). It’s too much to try to mentally digest simulated reality, particularly with so much visual stimulus.

NPW3364

I agree it’s still niche. Do you have a source showing the numbers are cresting because everything I’ve seen shows demand is still growing. Afaik Apple is working heavily on both AR/VR.

cinefun

It’s still niche, the numbers are creating. Apple is investing in AR, not VR. AR I believe to be potentially viable.

cinefun

It’s not the hardware, that is my point. The consumer base just does not care about VR the way a subset of the tech set do, this is not a shock, nor a surprise, after the initial novelty, they could not care less about it. That’s not going to change via hardware.

DarthBuzzard

Saying 'People don't care' doesn't mean anything though. As I've said, people do not care about early hardware regardless of what that hardware is - VR or PCs or anything else. People's habits have changed for every successful hardware shift out there. From "I don't care/I hate this" to "I need this/want this". That doesn't mean VR is destined to make that transition, but you seem to believe it is destined to not make that transition. I have an open mind for either scenario, but give reasons why there's a chance for it to take off. You have given no reasons for why it cannot ever take off because there are no reasons to give - it's an illogical stance. Apple and Google are investing in AR **and** VR. It's a mixture of both. I'm sure they invest more in AR/mostly want AR but the matter of the fact is their VR investments are still happening, and given how AR is even further out than VR, those investments will continue to happen for as long as they also continue to pursue AR until AR is ready.

cinefun

My field is not in hardware. But it literally doesn’t matter. People do not care. Apple and Google are investing in AR, which I do see as viable. Meta may continue to sink money in VR, but that well will run dry eventually. It seems you have a decent chunk of change in this space, I hope I’m wrong and you make some money.

NPW3364

VR headset sales have steadily increased since 2018 and continue to accelerate with no signs of slowing down. What isn’t selling?? You really think the quest is somehow the peak of VR even though the only thing they offer is a realistically cheap entry point? Apple is much more likely to breakthrough to a larger audience with their cultivated fan base when their headset releases.

DarthBuzzard

If you work in VR, then tell me about the evolution of the hardware. What kind of optics can we expect beyond pancake lenses? What about addressing VAC? Would you say we need a new approach to eye-tracking, if so what kind of approach could get us to the MHz update range? What kind of rendering approaches would work well for photorealistic avatars? How can we address 3D audio to make it more realistic for each individual both in software and using novel hardware features? Is there a way to help reduce isolation for VR users, and what kind of advances would help towards that? These should be answerable questions for someone working in VR, so I'm hoping to see some answers. You should also be aware that VR's investment in 2023 is still very high, with Meta investing more in their Reality Labs division this year than ever, and Apple/Google/Samsung and others gearing up more for future hardware/software.

cinefun

I have and continue to work in VR and VR/metaverse adjacent spaces. People just do not care, the bubble (if there even was one) is already bursting, the funding is no longer there like it was and you will see more entities pulling out from the space.

socalmikester

VR is to the internet what 3D was to television.

cinefun

Yep, I’ve worked in and around VR. People just don’t care beyond the initial intrigue, and even more people do not want to be isolated apart from their body for more than a couple minutes.

pragmojo

So VR is a failed product because everyone except you is a boomer?

NPW3364

If you were right we wouldn’t see so many VR products selling today. u/cinefun might not care about VR but consumers certainly do

DarthBuzzard

None of the aforementioned points are practical in existing products. - Headsets are not comfortable and are not capable of producing adequately readable virtual displays. - There are no VR neural interfaces in consumer products. - Social telepresence is still cartoony and not at a level of photorealism that is necessary to establish the same kind of expectations we'd have from a videocall - of being able to see person's real face and body. - Entertainment in VR can indeed be highly addicting, but is impractical for the masses because the hardware is clunky and can't even be worn for more than 30 minutes on average which squarely cuts down any potential for addiction for average people.

cinefun

You are talking about things that from a practical standpoint already are viable, and the majority of people still don’t care. There are and will continue to be niche uses for VR (remote surgery, deep sea exploration, drone strikes, etc), but we are talking about things from a consumer perspective here, and consumers do not care.

aVRAddict

I guarantee you will be using AR VR glasses in 5 years.

aVRAddict

People on this sub are so dumb. I bet none of you have even tried VR or cardboard at best. This place is full of boomers.

Cryptonomancer

I think is more comparable to the Atari 2600, which was pretty successful, but then also blew up. Other gaming systems came along and it was all fine, though. Still a bit hard to compare, like VR might not be dead, but I think it is going much slower than some anticipated and seems like it might remain a smaller market than expected. So far, the best VR experiences I've had, I'd actually say are the 3-D rides at theme parks, which is cool, but also not something I want to do every day.

VirginBarryGaming

Metaverse did not exist until a company named meta said they’re developing a universe in VR called the metaverse lol

DarthBuzzard

And why is it impossible for these advances to change habits? What if a VR headset is comfortable enough and small enough to produce any amount of virtual displays you want, such an IMAX theater for media viewing or a triple monitor setup for work - without taking up any physical space, and it enables better posture and utilizes faster input than a keyboard and mouse through a neural interface input like EMG? What if the more unique aspects of VR like social telepresence is realistic enough that people find the value over the unrealistic alternatives of a monitor? Have you thought about that?

cinefun

Breakthroughs in what? The advancements VR can make isn’t going to just make people want to put on a headset instead of just looking at a screen, or monitor, or whatever. Time has proven me right, and I believe it will continue to do so. We shall see.

DarthBuzzard

Again, this is an illogical stance to take. You can't just assume you know the future. You have decided that you know exactly how VR hardware/software will evolve when you don't actually know. It's true that computers, in the form of mainframes and microcomputers and early PCs for enterprise/businesses had plenty of uses, so that is a difference between the two. This does not discount the fact that consumers rejected early PCs and it took around 15 consistent years of PCs being on the market for consumers to later accept them.

cinefun

Apples and Oranges. Computers are an entire class of product and always had practical use, and were widely used prior to consumers. VR is a niche subclass that people just do not care about and, again, from a practical sense, never will.

DarthBuzzard

> It’s not going to happen. How would you know? The Commodore 64 also received good reviews, but average people didn't care. It took another decade before the market took off because the technology was so immature at the time and had to drastically evolve. VR needs to drastically evolve to. Do you think you can predict each of the drastic evolutions that VR can make, and have you accounted for that in your prediction? Otherwise this confidence is misplaced.

cinefun

Again, from a practical standpoint, no one cares about VR. 2020/21 had a commercially available affordable VR platform with hardware that had pretty good reviews and coverage. No one wanted it. It’s not going to happen.

pragmojo

Maybe AI driven content creation will get there eventually, VR isn't 2D art. You're talking about producing 3D models and animations in an environment where performance optimization is extremely important, because you need really low-latency rendering in order not to make people nauseous. And VR headsets which are a pair of sunglasses and earpods may happen, but we're a ways away thanks to thermodynamics.

DarthBuzzard

> And the hardware isn't exactly immature. 720p perceived clarity bulky devices with slow input, that can cause nausea, headaches, eye strain, and have tracking problems, isolation problems, not well accommodating for glasses users? No mouse-like device or touch-screen interface that is unique to the VR medium? Pretty sure that's immature.