VTOL

hampikatsov

At a brief glance, SLS, ONDS, and DRTS seem to have gone up a lot in the relative past…there is room for downside. If you are in the green, I would take profits on SLS and DRTS. Both are pharma plays that can be brutal. SLS especially seems to have had a past of big upswings and downtrends. I really like the whole idea of electric VTOL aircraft like HOVR, however I feel like that whole sector is years if not decades away from commercialization and success. If you are in at a good price ONDS seems like the best to hold. But even that seems frisky in this shaky inflated market.

FancyAd9588

DRTS is already launched commercially in Japan, the hurdle is FDA approval and commercialisation in USA. HOVR is in VTOL sector, the biggest player in this field is JOBY which looks like the path HOVR is following. GCTS is semiconductor stock which has a unnamed satellite partner they described as "worlds largest satellite communications provider". If they name it could drive price up. Yes. I have more holding idk why I chose these 3 but they are interesting.

dad191

Joby has aircraft already built and systems already in testing with the military and a partnership with one of the world's largest Defense Contractors, L3Harris. \* S4-T - Already built and flying. Joby and L3Harris recently hosted a demo of the S4-T with the US Army. It's a hybrid Turbo-Electric VTOL that's already demonstrated VTOL takeoff and transition to winged flight. \* SuperPilot Autonomous Flight System - Joby has already had the military test their SuperPilot flight systems for autonomous flight logistics in multiple military exercises in the Pacific. \* JAI30 - Hybrid Electric CTOL drone in testing with the US Military at Yuma Proving Grounds. Been flying for over a year, reportedly flew for 24 hours without refueling. Suspected persistent loitering surveillance and/or forward operating communications drone. In terms of FAA certification, Joby's civilian S4 is far ahead of Archer. It's been flying piloted through transition for over a year, and Joby is currently flying 5 copies of the S4. Joby has also flown it piloted through congested airspace in NYC and San Francisco. Archer is the only major US eVTOL player who still has not transitioned their aircraft with a pilot on board. Joby, Beta, and Vertical have all accomplished this. ACHR is far behind Joby.

shaman0610

'may be pretty similar' = not equal. 1k in LEAPS as a fixed absolute loss vs 1k in underlying stock that tanks 80% in two years is a difference but not at all close to the margin of difference between LEAPs vs underlying stock if the value of the stock 2x or more (I know you know this). It's similar in poker to laying odds on a nut flush draw. the hand may be a loser the majority of the time, but if the underlying pot odds show a potential gains that far exceeds the baked in loss, it's a statistical win long term. Now, this analogy fails in that it makes the assumption that there WILL be a winner long term - in the VTOL market, it could all end up being a fad and every major company, including the 4 I have listed, go broke. Will the losses from either the underlying stock vs LEAPS affect my family financially in any way? No. If one or two of these really do take off, will those gains potentially be a meaningful difference? Yes.

shaman0610

I am very aware. My retirement portfolio is almost entirely passive mutual funds and ETFs, and of the fraction that is single stock investments, these VTOL stocks make up a very small portion as well. For stocks that are far more likely to be binary outcomes, it makes sense to me, when possible, to buy more heavily into LEAPS than just the common stock. Losses long-term may be pretty similar, though when the iron strikes, far more lucrative.

dad191

The US will never let EHang operate in the US and as far as I know they haven't submitted for any European certification, so that severely limits their market. In addition, since the FAA is still the gold standard for certification, some will question how safe EHang is. I also do not see Archer and Joby as being serious competitors at this time. While Archer does talk about running an air taxi service, they have released no information on how they will accomplish that task, while they more often talk about selling aircraft as a traditional aircraft supplier. Joby is the opposite. While they will sell aircraft for some markets, their business will mostly focus on expanding and running air taxi services in urban areas. Joby has purchased Blade and is already running air taxi service and has partnered with Uber so that Uber customers will see Uber, Uber X, Uber Black, and Air Taxi as a choice in the app customers use today. There are models out there that show Joby's TaaS model will be more profitable than the standard aircraft model. Joby also has a significant military program with actual systems flying and being tested by the military today. Joby's hybrid JAI30 persistent surveillance/comms drone is currently flying and being tested at Yuma Proving Grounds in AZ. Joby's S4-T hybrid turbo electric VTOL just flew through transition during an evaluation for the US Army, and Joby's SuperPilot autonomous systems has been undergoing tested for automated logistics flights during drills in the Pacific. I really don't see much similarity between Joby and the other companies to be honestly. Joby also is the only one that has multiple aircraft flying with a pilot through transition in Urban centers, while nobody else even has one that has done more than a simple demonstration of piloted transition capabilities; with Archer specifically never being able to demonstrate this critical capability with a pilot to date.

JRobin02

HOVR because they’re on the run up to creating there final VTOL in the next 6 months and they’ve got a great unique product that will benefit customers practically and economically

democharge92

HOVR is going to be able to do what most helicopters can't do (FIKI). It's creating a lane that wasn't possible before and they are aiming for a relatively small amount of sales (200-300 a year). While JOBY, ARCHR are trying to create their own lane (air taxis). HOVR is also going for regional transport, which is re-opening a lane that helicopters haven't traditionally been in but planes used to be. Doing a correct comparison with the helicopter market just isn't a great way to compare things. The VTOL market is way bigger.

betarhoalphadelta

First, that (Alia CX300) wasn't a VTOL. That's a conventional plane. So comparison to a helo doesn't work. Beta's own web site says the CX250 VTOL costs 55% more hourly energy cost than the CX300. Second, it's still much more than an electric vehicle. Many EVs tout >4 mile/kWh efficiency. The 80 mile trip that was referenced would take 16 kWh in a car. The US average (per google) is $0.1765/kWh, so 16 kWh would be $2.82. The car was 2.5x more efficient than the airplane. Which makes sense comparing, say, the Cessna 172 getting 13 to 18 mpg at cruise to a Honda accord getting 35-44 highway mpg. Again we're somewhere in a realm of 2.5-3x efficiency penalty for leaving the ground. Third, their web site says the CX300 has an $18 hourly energy cost. 3/4 of that (45 min) would be $13.50. And yet somehow this 45 minute flight cost only $7 in energy, or somewhere near ***half*** of what they say on their own site it should? Sounds like someone's playing some marketing games... So... It's still an energy problem.

dad191

Just an FYI if you don't know. Joby has an aircraft in testing with the military at the Yuma Proving ground. Likely a surveillance/communications drone. It's a two prop hybrid design, separate from their eVTOL. They have also had aircraft running their SuperPilot fully autonomous flight software fly alongside military aircraft in two pacific military exercises demonstrated autonomous logistics capabilities. Finally. last month the Army was at Joby's Marina facility to witness a demonstration of Joby's S4-T, the turbo-electric hybrid military version of their VTOL that is being developed in collaboration with L3Harris. Archer does have a military partnership with Anduril, but the evidence does not show that Archer is ahead when it comes to military hardware already developed and being actively tested.

Longjumping_Cookie68

VTOL. I have been holding $ACHR for a while now. I remember last summer I had such obscene amount of conviction for that stock. Unfortunately it continues to disappoint. Same with $OKLA. I legit thought nuclear energy is what’s needed to power all these data centers and plus Sam Altman himself is very closely associated with $OKLA. So that’s that. $HIMS as well. I know three very different companies but I remember having such high expectations

SuckMyyDirk41

VTOL’s are so cool

FancyAd9588

Both are in the VTOL industry so why not choose both.

Kaizen-_

Two long term holds on my side: **JOBY & ARCHER**: Two VTOL aircraft companies, aiming to launch within the next few years. JOBY is already building a 'vertiport' in Dubai. This could be a big one on the long-term. Basically we're talking about electric helicopters. **Lineage Therapeutics:** Sounds like a typical high risk Pharma company, but I keep high hopes on this one. Lots of positive news so far and it isn't meme hyped.

rwtyler

Thanks. appreciate that but if you'll allow me to get my closing statemnt in there: HOVR's been trading on the nasdaq since January of 2024 where, to your point, there was huge bloodshed, as the stock crumbled from 10's to 1ish. but just because it has been there for a couple years in the 1-4 range doesn't mean it is doomed for the zero mark.. The death valley of dilution IS a possibility with hovr, but as it stands at the moment, hovr has a fighting chance - with a cash runway of 20+ million , a lean startup model designed to utilize partnerships to reduce dilution necessity and certification costs; and with recent announcements of tier 1 manufacturing partners/ engineering partners, and an already proven forward flight transition demo with their X5; math of which has already been verified by the US Air Force/AFWERX High speed Vtol program (where they were roughly 1 out of 11 winners of 200+ applicants to succeed here).. in terms of economics HOVR is far more attractive than its all electric competitors too, as they don't have to build any charging infrastructure, they have already evaluated to be 3x + cheaper /flight mile than helicopters, and they can fly regionally unlike all electric vtols - so there is a huge economic upside to the point where you can bet large tier 1 OEMs are taking interest and looking at developing a partnership with HOVR or dare i suspect buying them out/their tech entirely. I need not mention the market cap discrepancy between HOVR and the next closest VTOL that has a full scale aircraft already (over 200million + dollars) and a CEO who stated there will unlikely be much dilution over the next year; or that of a successful full scale flight.. -overall point being it may not be the shit company you think it is. please note, your point is well received, there is SUBSTANTIAL risk here and it is a very binary play. but as far as i'm concerned it is not a shit company, but already a pretty incredible one.

nikitaga

Lots of drones already fly themselves, e.g. in agriculture. EU already has some designated airspace where drones have right of way over manned airplanes unless the latter broadcast their position with electronic conspicuity (that drones can receive and thus avoid collision). You don't necessarily need more air traffic controllers if routine operations are handled by autopilots that use automated electronic conspicuity to manage themselves. VTOL drones have a lot more options for emergency landings than fixed wing aircraft. Many VTOL designs can be equipped with recovery parachutes such as designed by Galaxy GRS. I don't know the exact propulsion efficiency numbers for eVTOL aircraft but I suspect that many of them would have fairly reasonable range for air taxi applications, especially by the time they get to market (batteries constantly improving). Hybrid power plants are also an option, but ultimately may not be needed. None of this is _quite_ ready for prime time, but I don't see any massive blockers. No positions for me though. Stocks seem expensive in a crowded market with limited moat and slow moving government approvals.

Mr60SPX

They didn’t show the most important part… the landing. All jokes aside, how did it land? I know it’s VTOL but for this test did it land conventionally?

Remarkable_Net_6977

Ok, here is one.  HOVR. It’s a pre revenue hybrid VTOL. It’s boom or bust with this one. It’s Canadian and is being built to manage their weather conditions.  Also Kraken Robotics. Another Canadian company (robotics/naval military stuff). It has already like 5x though in the last year or so. Still relatively small company. 

TheMeta40k

I got some ideas for the war. Drone trebuchet. VTOL kbar Optics ready HIMARS Fully automatic Tomahawk Missiles Hypersonic Submarine Sand proof tighty whities Gun 2 Should I apply to Lockheed or General dynamics? If one more person says Kel-tec I will kick you right out.

JustinDestruction

Hopefully I learned a lesson from Biden’s era, when J Powell rocketed interest rates, after keeping them low for ALL of Trump’s first presidency. The lesson was panic sell losers ONLY when losses reach 60+%. Reload VOO and wait three years until market normalizes. Sell ALL VOO gains and buy ANY wacky Cathie Wood idea (robotic VTOL taxi, Space data, whatever). Wait three years and repeat.

External_Anteater730

It's the same with VTOL companies- driven by hype and Saudi/gov't contracts

tortapounding

Anyone been following the VTOL space? Joby has CCP ties? Wtf?!? Wtf does this mean for the space then

tile234

Look at Bristow Group Inc . ( VTOL ) Great co. Now selling flaying cars. ( cops will need these in a year or so ) And Ampius Technologies Inc. ( AMPX ) Own the parts co. Not the drone builders.

tschuebe

I love JOBY !; but !!! Research HOVR stock -@$2  as of Jan 26 2026. Flys faster and longer distances than joby , VTOL but hybrid . Carry on and invest wise and NOT with anything Elon Musk owns or is involved with. 

Sensitive_Pilot3689

VTOL companies laughing rn

DryBicycle5629

Did a Deep dive on that company over the weekend. I like what I see. They are the nvidia of battery space when it comes to drones and electric planes. Best batteries when it comes to energy density, recently awarded for it at CES. Excellent financials and capital light production. Explosive growth projected for the next couple of years. Silicon anode batteries deliver exceptional performance and are light weight champions that are perfect for defense (UAV’s) and consumer drones, quite possibly e-VTOL aircraft’s too. Their top customers are airbus, aerovironment, US military, Nordic wings etc. really impressive stuff, worth taking a look if you’ve never heard of them.

ElmoLovesGrover

VTOL airplanes. Could make money off it, but I'd stick with the pure-play drone stocks.

dad191

Got it. For me 2026 is the year I think it will become clear if air taxis will begin changing mobility or not. I expect Joby FAA for credit testing to begin within Q1 and non-paying passenger flights in Dubai within Q2. I expect Joby to be Type Certified or very close to it within 12-18 months and full operations in Dubai by the end of this year. If those events are far from reality within the next 12 months I'm with you. If things go as Joby says they will I expect to be a lot richer in 12 months. We shall see. I have no faith in Archer until they VTOL with the actual aircraft design they are trying to certify. The only Midnight (Midzero remotely piloted engineering prototype built way back in 2023) that has VTOL'd is an old prototype. They've been saying they will transition with a pilot with a Midnight design that will proceed through certification for 2 years now, and all they do these days fly CTOL with the latest model. When Archer VTOLs through transition piloted with the current design, I'll change my mind on Archer. I did make a bunch on Archer during the Tesla hype story recently in a quick 2 week trade, so I appreciate them for that. I'm up almost 200% on Joby and hoping for it to double again in 12 months. We will see. I hope Archer makes it too and you make some good money on your investment. I personally believe the more players in the air taxi space, the more stable the space will be (if the vision becomes reality).

dad191

I'm not convinced ARCH will fly in UAE in 2026. The only thing they currently have that can VTOL is their old engineering prototype MidZero that is only remotely controlled from my understanding. We'll see if they get their latest Midnights flying VTOL in 2026. I do believe Joby will fly in Dubai in 2026 with passengers, though likely non-paying at first. I am hoping that will act as a positive catalysts for Joby. Generally, Joby and ACHR track each other, so it should help both.

No_Somewhere3288

The problem is the FAA. I’ve worked on the operations side of aviation for 25 years and certification for any new technology is painfully slow. I have no doubt the aircraft will get certified but there’s too many other factors that have to happen for any sort of meaningful revenue stream. These VTOL companies are looking at pilot certification, maintenance programs, and a total revamp of the airspace system and operating rules in an already antiquated ATC system. I think they will be able to operate in the same way as helicopters but nowhere near general public use adaptation.

BTolputt

Sure, and flying cars will wreck traffic control, but neither the Tesla VTOL nor a true AGI is coming anytime soon. 👍

ComparisonNo4938

This news are good, but the VTOL program still burns cash as of now. For a microcap like XTIA, the deal meaningfully increases there revenue scale and positions the company inside a hot geopolitical theme, U.S. domestic drone supply chain. (Goverment contracts down the line?) The market reaction will likely hinge on: dilution from the preferred stock. How profitable Drone Nerds remains after integration, and whether investors trust XTIA management’s execution out of this deal. New regarding the post: https://ir.xtiaerospace.com/ir-news-events/press-releases/detail/369/xti-aerospace-acquires-drone-nerds-and-closes-25-million-strategic-investment-by-unusual-machines

fathersucrose

You still drive a tesla. I VTOL from the airport. We are not the same.

ColRizz

JOBY by far for VTOL

sicklyslick

I mean, are you not aware China is the only individual country with their own space station? With the ISS deorbiting by end of the decade, China will be the ONLY space station in Earth orbit until EU gets theirs up. Also, China has self landing rockets boosters as well. Did you not see the recent news? The 3 Chinese astronauts were stuck in tiangong because debris struck their return vehicle. Instead of waiting 9 months like the NASA astronauts, China was able to sent a alternative return vehicle in 2 weeks and the astronauts have returned safely. Then, they were able to confirm there was micro cracks on the damages return vehicle, although it has returned back to earth safely as well. In terms of starlink, they have it. Only 100~ satellites but they are launching more. As for pubic/non state owned companies, there's ehang, LandSpace and Galactic Energy. I think Ehang is the most widely known one. ISHOWSPEED rode in one of they're VTOL during his China stream. And obviously DJI for drones although it's not really relevant to SpaceX. All this information you can find yourself. Idk why you need to ask

Lox4tw

[https://investors.archer.com/news/news-details/2024/Archer-Announces-Strategic-Partnership-With-Anduril-to-Develop-Hybrid-VTOL-Military-Aircraft-Raises-An-Additional-430M/default.aspx](https://investors.archer.com/news/news-details/2024/Archer-Announces-Strategic-Partnership-With-Anduril-to-Develop-Hybrid-VTOL-Military-Aircraft-Raises-An-Additional-430M/default.aspx)

vayjining

Well. We aint got VTOL.....But we got our own airport lmfao... yikes.

_DoubleBubbler_

Thanks for the comment. Successful piloted test flights (conventional take off and VTOL) have been carried out and the final stage (prop transition flight) is due in the next couple of months. Vertical is looking to certify to the highest aviation standard (i.e. one crash in a billion hours of flight aka 1 to the minus 9) in a dual track process with Britain’s CAA and the EU’s EASA. Doing so should allow them to hopefully gain FAA certification also. Take a look at the new Vertical\_Aerospace sub and the video Henry Blodget. Certification is covered from 27:14 onwards and here is an excerpt of what Vertical CEO Stuart Simpson states… ‘Our aircraft will be exportable everywhere. The US competitors will not be exportable into Europe or the UK despite what they're telling people. We have confirmation from EASA and the CIA that they will not allow anything that's not to the minus 9 to fly over populated areas in Europe. Hence Archer and Joby’s focus on the Middle East!’

West_Agency_4593

lol I’m big on archer but theta gonna leave you broke. sell calls when it breaks 13, buy shares/calls between 8.6-9.5. Historically, this will trickle back to 10 range before it pops back up to $13, unless they show VTOL asap.

WrappedInLinen

I don't really see them making the numbers work. The speed advantage of aviation is more pronounced the farther you go. For short little hops you really aren't going to gain enough to justify the exponentially greater cost. Sure, there will be a few very wealthy folks who will be willing to pay the extra 5000%--15000% to gain the 10 or 15 minutes. But they will probably have a VTOL of there own and use it like a car. I just don't see the demand for this.

beerion

Maybe the low altitude economy - i.e., air taxis If they can get the economics to work, they can: **supplement rideshare** (for longer trips or point to point) **supplement trucking** (more expensive to lift things in the air, but you can fly faster and in a straight line and it's easier to implement autonomy in a VTOL than in trucks). Also, a lot of things are shipped via air anyways. Instead of having to do a handoff at an airport, air-taxis could deliver goods directly to fulfillment centers. **takeover regional flights** (no lines, no security, shorter uber rides to/from urban vertiports than airports outside of city). My guess is that anything under 400 miles may make more sense as an air taxi ride than a flight out of an airport. **defense -** These aircraft will likely require no pilot in the future, which is a major bottleneck in the military. They'll also require a fraction of the maintenance and significantly less fuel costs. The economics still don't make a ton of sense yet for a lot of applications. They may need larger form factors (which maybe these don't scale well), and they'll need to be able to mass produce at very low costs (likely under a million dollars per shipset). But there's an outside chance that this is a real industry inside of the next decade (before 2035).

infernalbunny98

Waiting on VTOL from their N704AX aircraft. Likely will die off for a month.

rottenfence

I just saw Sam Altman flying a Tesla VTOL over my house..pump it!

NunuTitobu

Now their sex robots will have rotors and VTOL....TSLA to 1000

Affectionate-Bet6700

Archer has a shit product for Elon to put his name behind it. It can’t even VTOL and has yet to meet many critical technical milestones. Also Elon doesn’t do partnerships, he just does it to maintain control. This narrative and speculation is being pushed by the 5 regard mods of ACHR. They are making it a joke for an industry that needs to be serious and focus on safety and execution.

Beginning-Fig-9089

maybe this VTOL sector is primed for take off

ServiceDifficult802

The hate only comes because of the shade the company throws on Joby. The Archer leadership talked the talk but could not walk the walk. They over promised and under delivered at every turn. True, they have only been around since 2018, and what they have accomplished since is admirable, but to say they "nailed" VTOL"? Comeon man, anyone can vtol or ctol. There is nothing special about either when a college kid can attach a bunch of props to a box and make it go up/down or forward. "Transition" - sure Archer did transition on Maker which was a tech demonstrator so did not count for much and then on Midnight zero which yes again a great feat, but the vibrations were so damn bad and the transition was so unstable they literally could not use the same design moving forward. There is a reason, even in their marketing video to show transition, they actually cut that part out. So essentially, again, just a tech demonstrator. "FAA Certs" - what FAA certs? Their cert basis has been stuck on Stage 3 at 15% for years now. And it isn't their fault. They do not have an aircraft model and design they can currently certify. There is again a reason they are stuck going CTOL with their latest aircraft. I have the greatest appreciation for the engineers and techs at Archer trying to figure all of this out, but absolutely nothing for the execs who have lied at every turn with unrealistic claims and made the company look like an absolute grift. Here is a summary of just some of their BS: 1) We are going to use COTS parts to get to market quicker than Joby and go to established aerospace suppliers to make us components - Complete quiet 180 as they acquire their own composites shop and lag so far behind on production that nothing has come out of their "completed" Georgia facility ever. 2) We are going to make FAA conforming aircraft from the get-go, not prototypes like Joby. It has been nothing but a prototype after prototype and/or FAA non-conforming aircraft until now from Archer. Still no news on any FAA conforming builds. 3) We have 6-8 number of aircraft in production in Georgia and will have them rolling off the line flooding the flightline since late 2024 of which X are conforming - So far only 1 aircraft delivered to test flight in Q1 2025 and that also is a ctol capable prototype only 4) Tall promises of flying at the Korean UAM grand challenge and at the Osaka workd expo and pulling out of both quietly without any notice while again throwing shade, saying things like we are too busy building planes - okay then where are those planes and why did you promise to fly earlier???? 5) Literally trying to steal Joby's thunder at every turn: Flying Midnight zero in a vertical hover in Abu Dhabi a couple of days after Joby fully transitioned multiple times in Dubai, to make it look like they were just as capable (if they were, why no demo of the transition they had touted the aircraft had done so long ago and so many times) Twisting the Osaka governments announcement regarding an MOU with Soracle to get airtaxi's operational to an exclusive deal just with Archer for the city of Osaka. 6) And to that end, always going out of their way to drop news right after Joby makes an announcement. Oh, joby did an engine out test? Archer also did one. Oh, Joby just announced a partnership? Here, look at ours. it's bigger and better, i promise. You kind of get the idea hopefully after all of this. This is like barely scratching the surface, too. The hate/dislike does not come from thin air. Actions have consequences, and the dislike you see of Archer comes from a lot of what they have claimed but demonstrated little of and their general ahole like attitude to everyone else in the industry currently.

the-real-n00b

Yes, they updated the aft rotors — that’s part of fine-tuning lift and efficiency during testing. Early design adjustments like that are completely normal in this phase of development. The aircraft has already completed VTOL and transition flights.

the-real-n00b

I don’t get all the Archer hate from Joby folks in the comments. Joby’s had a decade head start (2009). Archer’s only been around since 2018 and already nailed VTOL, transitions, and FAA certs. They’re closing the gap fast. Where’s the love?

the-real-n00b

How did they under deliver? They said they would be demonstrating CTOL and never promised a VTOL demonstration here. Their VTOLs are still in testing phase and must be done in a controlled environment.

Embarrassed-Sea-6078

I thought that ACHR couldn’t pull off an actual VTOL and also had a worse PR campaign in the air show

momburglar

I do think Vertical is undervalued considering they can actually VTOL which Beta and Archer have failed to do with their production designs without having way too heavy of vibrations

jrex035

This is genuinely beyond ridiculous. Government shut down with absolutely no end in sight? Stocks go up! Worst September ADP jobs numbers in over a decade with previous months being revised downwards so that 3 of the last 4 months are now negative, all while government data reporting is on indefinite hiatus due to aforementioned shutdown? Stocks go up! The economy increasingly being propped up by unsustainable government debt spending and megacaps dumping 60+% of their FCF into data centers we dont have enough energy to power, all to pursue a technology that no one has been able to successfully capitalize so far? Believe it or not, stocks go up! Just throw a dart at a board and youll see double digit returns on your investment within a month or two, or within days if you're lucky enough to hit a pre-revenue tech company promising some vaporware like VTOL taxis or quantum computing or nuclear fusion. Surely this is a permanent rally, we're all gonna be rich!

unemotional_mess

It require 8 four blade rotors, 4 that move to allow normal flight and 4 fixed that are only use for hovering or VTOL. The big problem is the because those fixed rotors are 4 blade and pointed up that it causes massive drag. The original design was for them to be 2 bladed, but it did work and required 4 blades. Personally, I don't see it working. IMHO EVs need better batteries before I see them as a viable alternative to engines of all types, except in situations (city driving as an example)

bindermichi

Archer… is that the VTOL company that only flies helicopters or the one that only does horizontal takeoffs?

FourteenthCylon

If eVTOL was a good idea, regular VTOL aircraft that aren't helicopters would already be filling the skies.

Affectionate-Bet6700

And they use a picture of Joby aircraft for the article because Archer can’t VTOL yet. Author is fully regarded.

icecream_specialist

An electric VTOL aircraft company founded by a business major should tell you everything you need to know. Vaporware.

jmorlin

[I work in the industry](https://i.imgur.com/rieNOMY.jpeg). I personally wouldn't invest in eVTOL stocks. If I felt like exposing myself to them I'd go the pick and shovel route and buy into companies selling battery and charging tech since that's more universal. And if I wanted to diversify into aero I'd look into rocketry. My main concern is there are TONS of regulations surrounding commercial civil aerospace and getting to a point where you're profitable in that world is incredibly difficult for new companies. A secondary concern is that to my knowledge (granted I haven't really done a ton of research into it) EVs aren't nearly as viable for ICE power sources when it comes to heavier than air flight. It's just an energy density thing. Until we get the battery storage tech that can over come that heavier than air EVs (especially VTOL) is going to struggle. A tertiary concern is how they plan on using them. Basically as taxies. Dense urban environments mean lots of traffic and buildings to potentially collide with. A crash or two early in the product life cycle and you absolutely kill any future this company may have even if the tech is there.

emperorjoe

Pointless techbro technology. Trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, with cheaper and more affordable technology already in place. Helicopters are too expensive due to; limited routes in major cities, cost of fuel, salary and maintenance costs. VTOL drones don't fix any of those issues, in fact they are worse due to additional motors/engines It's drones vs helicopters. It's all down to FAA rules and NIMBLY regulations. Getting approval to fly these noisy drones in mass, in and around major cities is going to be impossible. Any crashes or someone hacking into the system is going to destroy the industry.

throwaway9gk0k4k569

I really want these VTOL companies to succeed, but I also know the history and have a hard time thinking this time will be different. The same with Nuclear. Do you think Joby will make it?

Affectionate-Bet6700

Check out Joby. They completed this milestone years ago as a VTOL. This is only a CTOL. Joby is years ahead and will get to market before ACHR

Affectionate-Bet6700

How is this news? Joby and many other competitors have completed this milestone years ago with 100+ miles and as a VTOL. This is still only CTOL.

Angels_Rest

Hybrid model Faster than a traditional heli Longer distance than traditional VTOL’s Patented wing design sets them apart Canadian Co and they want in the game Limited cash on hand. Will require dilution or major partner to scale

deezwhatbro

Joby is literally flying laps around Archer right now. Archer’s latest 2-prop config can’t even VTOL, and their 4-prop rework is non-existent. They seemed to have completely bowed out of the eVTOL race marked with that embarrassing launch edition hover. They’re not even in stage 4 yet, and have made literally 0% progress from the last quarter. They’ve literally pivoted from every endeavor at this point, apart from marketing and shilling for equity dilution. They also haven’t delivered anything to the Air Force. “Delivering in place” is silly at best, criminally disingenuous at worst. They’ve been trying to go full COTS parts as that was their least-cost thesis for years, but now their efforts to bring composites in-house is being propped up as genius? Give me a break. Joby’s been vertically integrated since the beginning, and it seems the CEO of Archer is finally realizing their whole purpose to exist is built on an unstable foundation; it took them 6 months to acquire that facility so they’re moving at a snails pace on that front as well. Partnerships with Anduril and Palantir? LOL. Lilium had more substantial partnerships. Hey, where’d that company go again? Best to stay in your safe space, r/ACHR, before you get bitch slapped in here. Good luck either way.

Affectionate-Bet6700

The entire industry knows Archer is smoke and mirrors. Everyone knows Joby is in the lead by years, both from an Air Taxi and DoD approach. Your DDs are tweets from the CEO 🤦🏼‍♂️. Joby has the better partnerships. Delta > United. Toyota > Stellantis. ANA > JAL. Etc. TBD who will be better between Anduril and L3 Harris. One has delivered product for decades while the other is heavily focus on acquiring companies and marketing. Joby has proven technologies while Archer hasn’t shown tinted rotors which is one of the most difficult part of a VTOL. Set a reminder. I’ll bet you that Joby stock return will be much greater than Archer and they’ll deliver better and sooner than Archer on everything.

zwantinus

Archer’s core innovation lies in developing fully electric, high-performance VTOL aircraft designed to transform urban transport. More than just fancy helicopter

phy597

JOBY looks interesting for the medical transport part of the business. Also the VTOL. Aren’t they just in NYC? Imagine this air taxi service in all the biggest cities for starters. It caters to the wealthy and corporate elites. Interesting read

boycot34

Announced partnership with L3 to focus on production of defense-related autonomous and manned VTOL

TrashChickenWagon

XTIA is my long game gamble. VTOL business class aircraft, if they can make it work.

theultimatewengali

How does everyone feel about VTOL? Just started digging in.

Expensive_Fruit_6695

I'm LONG! it's trading like biotech but with a way more visible path to commercialization. FAA Part 135 already secured, Midnight’s been flying regularly in Abu Dhabi heat *(a huge box ticked for UAE ops)* & they're pacing toward 2025 cert with test flight volume ramping up. Add in that $850M raise post Trump executive order & now they’ve got nearly $2B in liquidity, that’s not normal for pre revenue. And people sleep on the Anduril hybrid VTOL too that's potential DoD cash with no dilution

Loud-Ad9148

Gas engines are dinosaur. Modern battery tech plus VTOL drones are the future (potentially). Add in AI and you have something straight out of a sci fi. It doesn’t look as though we are that far away IMO. Imagine an autonomous VTOL drone which can patrol a set line or asset. Charges when it needs to (for which a 2nd drone will take over patrol). Possibly charged via a solar array. Add in surveillance, a weapons system, radar jamming… you have a pretty serious piece of kit.

FourteenthCylon

If VTOL aircraft for amateur pilots were a good idea, don't you think someone would already be making them with gas engines?

Thisispaartaaa

"$ACHR (ARCHER AVIATION) and ANDURIL are "deep in the work" on secretive VTOL aircraft" - Axios - 4 hrs ago

Sensitive-Talk9616

Ever seen a helicopter take off sideways? Of course helicopters are VTOL. If you're rich and want a flying toy you can buy a helicopter, today. But you can't just hop into one and fly around. You need to comply with regulations though. For example, in US, you'd need to be a pilot and your vehicle would need to be registered with the FAA. Now, what makes you think a flying car with a comparable weight, fuel/battery capacity, and power output would be treated differently? So the way I see it, everyone who wants to go through all this hassle already owns a helicopter (and probably pays a pilot to fly them around). To me it's just unthinkable to have the sky full of hobby pilots flying 500 kg, battery packed quasi-helicopters through densely populated cities.

iLov3musk

VTOL is different from helicopters

1PrestigeWorldwide11

There’s a completely new tech and industry in VTOL that will make sense in some instances….   China is going to be so unrecognizable vs the west in 10-20yrs.

ThinLeadership9604

We’ve got actual, electric autonomous VTOL delivery drones and we’re still typing shit wrong? What are they doing in Apple HQ!? Siri is a disgrace.

Emergency-Rush-7487

Space is the next big thing followed by VTOL systems and drones.

dmurrieta72

They have raised a lot of cash to pursue the recent Executive Order for VTOL aircraft. If they get it, it will be big news. There will be more dilution around $2.15 per their recent announcements. They should have plenty after that and be stable from there on. XTIA is roughly 70% of my portfolio. I will be increasing for the next two years when they plan to deliver their first aircraft to commercial customers. They have $3b in pre-orders not including the potential military applications. Pre-orders will open up again either later this year or early next year. It was stated on a recent call that JOBY was valued at $250 million at the same milestones that XTIA is currently at. With a current $28.26m market cap, that is more than 9 times the current value. JOBY is now valued at $8.9b. The potential is huge, but don’t expect your bags to pop overnight. This is a long term play. It’s significantly undervalued at its current state and has a very promising future, regardless if they land the military contracts or not, but they are lining up a lot of moves to get those contracts.

Xtianus25

Ahem... Got it—here’s what you’re looking for: the specific EASA and UK CAA certification criteria that drive design decisions like a closed cockpit for eVTOLs, pulled straight from the regulatory texts and guidance. 📝 1) EASA SC-VTOL.001 (Special Condition for VTOL) This is the European regulatory framework for certifying eVTOLs. The key points: ✅ SC-VTOL.001 divides aircraft into two certification categories: Basic Category: for operations where a controlled emergency landing can be made without risk to people on the ground. Enhanced Category: for commercial passenger ops, requiring higher safety standards—matching traditional commercial airliners (EASA SC-VTOL.001). Enhanced Category specific criteria driving enclosed cockpit choices: 🔹 SC VTOL.2255(a) – Occupant Safety: Requires the aircraft design to protect occupants during survivable crashes—supporting design features like reinforced, enclosed cockpits. 🔹 SC VTOL.2505 – Environmental Factors: Requires protection of systems and occupants from external environmental conditions (e.g., rain, debris), making a closed cockpit advantageous. 🔹 SC VTOL.2405(b) – Flight Crew Environment: Specifies requirements for crew visibility, control accessibility, and physical environment protection, which effectively encourage a sealed, protected cockpit. 🔹 SC VTOL.2005 & SC VTOL.2010 – System Safety: Requires that catastrophic failure probability must not exceed 10⁻⁹ per flight hour—practically requiring designs minimizing pilot exposure to hazards. 📝 2) CAA CAP2163 & UK CAA Alignment The UK CAA adopted CAP2163, a policy document aligning with EASA’s SC-VTOL Enhanced Category. It includes: Catastrophic Failure Rate: Mandates aircraft must demonstrate probability of catastrophic failure ≤ 10⁻⁹ per flight hour. Crashworthiness & Occupant Protection: Echoes EASA’s requirement for occupant survival during crashes. Environmental & Weather Protection: Implies robust enclosures for safe operation across weather scenarios. (CAA CAP2163) 🛡️ Why these criteria matter: These rules don’t literally force an enclosed cockpit, but to prove compliance with occupant safety, crash protection, and extreme reliability demands—designing an enclosed, robust cockpit becomes the practical path. An open or exposed cockpit would make it much harder (if not impossible) to meet Enhanced Category certification, which is required for commercial passenger eVTOL operations in Europe. Would you like help comparing how U.S. FAA SFAR rules differ on cockpit design? Guess joby won't be flying in the European markets then

Revolutionary_Pea373

Xtianus25 is a mod at the ACHR subreddit and bans anyone that has an opinion contrary to theirs/Archer’s in anyway. Most likely part of Archer PR team. With that said, everything they have said is false. Their claim about Joby being 3 passenger is completely false and pure FUD to undermine how far ahead Joby actually is. First, Joby is building a VTOL not a CTOL however, Joby test pilots have done multiple running landings and takeoffs and there are articles to back that up. Second of all Joby has already done failure injection testing by cutting motors, batteries, and actuators with their partners at Edward’s Air Force base with the aircraft that they actually delivered and actually fly. Archer keeps moving the goal post because they wanted to push timelines to keep the illusion of “keeping up”. In reality they are not only behind Joby they are also behind the others. Vertical Aero is a distant second from Joby then Eve and then Archer. I say that because Archer has a very immature design. They rushed to get it manufactured (which still took forever because they aren’t vertically integrated or made in the US) and found that they can’t do the one thing eVTOL’s are supposed to do. They can’t VTOL! The 4 bladed system they had on the early midnight that could VTOL was producing unacceptable vibrations during forward flight which means they can’t just swap their old design back on. The two bladed system is not powerful enough to VTOL. So they will have to redesign a new prop. Eve and vertical both have coaxial lift propellers that are able to be stowed inline during forward flight which is the most logical idea. Since Archer wants to use COTS parts, sourcing a system like this is unlikely and it’ll have to either be bought from another evtol manufacturer (unlikely) or they will have to design and test which could take multiple iterations. Being that Archer has rejected vertical integration this has put them imo at the back of the race. Archer put the cart before the horse and now they are slapping lipstick on a pig trying to keep the share price up while insiders are liquidating. Buyer beware.

TowerStreet1

Friends- leave Archer for Joby. I’m not in Archer and heavy on Joby but keep watching both closely just not become blind follower of Joby. This is more of same from Archer. At this time I have concluded that Archer is ONLY interested in dick contest with Joby and trying very hard to stay relevant through PR, flashy update. Sad… we need real players n competition but seems eVTOL is becoming one horse race in USA. Maybe Beta will join when they ready to transition from wing borne to vertical takeoff. Friends I keep saying this whenever I see Archer getting hyped… They are mostly style over substance. PR over progress. Promises over delivery. Misleading vs Factual Etc. They don’t have certifiable product. They has one prototype which is has been exploited as showpiece than actual testing….and their second prototype is having major design changes than first one… They product is too heavy and cannot VTOL so now they showing hat as CTOL. Lastly for what it matters Cathie/Ark has invested here and this is also recommended by Jim Cramer!! This cult has setup separate sub r/ACHR where if you asked question they ban you.

Full-Sound-6269

Is it not a VTOL with AI autopilot? Like these props don't turn forward and make it accelerate? That would make sense why it would have wings in that case.

wrongrobertpatrick

Found it 🤓 • Archer's Midnight eVTOL aircraft flew today at Al Bateen Executive Airport in Abu Dhabi. • Archer's flight test operations are focused on evaluating the aircraft's vertical take off and landing (VTOL) performance in UAE-specific conditions, including high temperature, humidity and dust exposure in advance of commercial deployment. • Senior leadership from the UAE General Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA), the Abu Dhabi Investment Office (ADIO), the Integrated Transport Centre, Abu habi Aviation and Abu Dhabi Airports attended the flight test, along with representatives from Archer's regional partners.

HedonismbotAHAHA

You’re smoking crack. One FAA cert left? They haven’t even flown VTOL and are making changes to the aft props.

AmbitiousEconomics

Everyone seems to think that if you take a helicopter and make it electric all of a sudden a ton of infrastructure will pop up to support helicopter travel. Why would we expect eVTOL travel to suddenly be a massive industry when VTOL travel has existed for almost a century and barely anyone uses it?

RJG-98

ACHR - Archer Aviation or a company similar My reasoning for this pick is that looking out, VTOL style transportation will be like Uber. Nobody talks much about it because it doesn’t currently exist. 15 years ago, all you could order to your door was pizza. Uber changed the game and I think a company like Archer especially with the backing of big companies has a huge leap ahead of competitors. Cheap too, I’ve been buying since 3$. Next Choice: NVO or companies that specialize in weight loss drugs. While I disagree with the weight loss drugs, it’s a buy. Why? They are recommending it to obese kids now. The kicker is, you don’t take it for a few months and stop. It is a drug that you are on for a lifetime. I understand the flaw of man. People want things quick and easy without looking too much into side effects. That’s why I think this company is extremely undervalued looking out 10-15 years

WestAd1588

To me it’s a question of energy. The VTOL are (surprising to me) more efficient per passenger kilometer than a gasoline powered car, and about on-par with an electric vehicle (assuming low occupancy). So as long as they replace trips taken by internal combustion engine, then it’s good. If they replace a trip that would have otherwise been on public transportation, then we are using 2x-5x more energy for that same trip.

Ultimatefriend007

VTOL =Vertical takeoff and LANDING.

Status-Rule5087

They make VTOL taxis right? I don’t really get the market besides the novelty of it.

motorbikler

It is insane to me that people think the only reason we don't all have our own flying machines is because we haven't figured out the VTOL part. Can you imagine your neighbour taking off for work every morning, right outside your window? Running out of fuel/battery and slamming into houses or commercial building? Just being super bad at flying in general? Helicopters already exist for other uses.

TheBlacktom

In cities let's have a good public transit system. The only place I would not allow frequent VTOL flights, especially without pilot licenses is cities. The noise is mainly a problem in cities, and any accident is a lot bigger in cities.

TowerStreet1

The overhyping of ACHR continues…Joby and Beta were main partners here not ACHR. Mods must control this spam postings. They can go back to r/ACHR that they have setup for this pure crappy propaganda. Friends I keep saying this whenever I see Archer getting hyped… They are mostly style over substance. PR over progress. Promises over delivery. Misleading vs Factual Etc. They don’t have certifiable product. They has one prototype which is has been exploited as showpiece than actual testing….and their second prototype is having major design changes than first one… They product is too heavy and cannot VTOL so now they showing hat as CTOL. Lastly for what it matters Cathie/Ark has invested here and this is also recommended by Jim Cramer!! This cult has setup separate sub r/ACHR where if you asked question they ban you.

cnaik1987

I should preface. I have no business giving any advice to anybody on investing. I do stay up to date with a lot of aviation trends, and the big players. And this seems like a no-brainer. Especially if they can develop energy efficient methods to fly these they are going to be the next car. There’s no way we can keep expanding the roads and keeping this many vehicles on the ground forever. This is from deepseek ### 🚁 **Pure-Play VTOL Stocks: High Risk, High Reward** *(Ranked by near-term potential)* #### **1. Joby Aviation ($JOBY)** - **What they do:** Electric air taxis (5 seats, 150-mile range). - **Catalysts:** - FAA certification expected **late 2025** (biggest near-term catalyst). - Partnerships: **Delta Air Lines**, Toyota, Uber. - Already flying 30,000+ test miles. - **Financials:** - $1.2B cash (no bankruptcy risk until 2027+). - Revenue expected 2026 ($200M+). - **Entry Strategy:** - **Ideal buy zone: $4.50–$5.50/share** (currently ~$5.20). - Buy in 3 tranches: 50% now, 25% at $4.80, 25% at $4.50. - **Price Target:** $12–$15 by 2026 (if FAA approves). --- #### **2. Archer Aviation ($ACHR)** - **What they do:** Urban air mobility (4 seats, 100-mile range). - **Catalysts:** - **United Airlines** ordered 200 aircraft ($1B+ potential). - FAA certification target: **2025**. - Testing piloted flights in 2024. - **Financials:** - $700M cash (runway into 2026). - Revenue start: 2025 (limited scale). - **Entry Strategy:** - **Ideal buy zone: $2.80–$3.50/share** (currently ~$3.90). - Wait for pullback below $3.60 (volatile stock). - **Price Target:** $8–$10 by late 2025. #### **3. Lilium ($LILM)** - **What they do:** Regional jets (6 seats, 155-mile range). - **Catalysts:** - Focus on longer routes (e.g., city-to-airport). - Backed by **Bavarian State Govt.** & private investors. - EASA (Europe) certification target: **2026**. - **Risks:** - Higher cash burn ($100M/quarter). - Needs $500M+ funding by 2025 (likely dilution). - **Entry Strategy:** - **Only buy below $0.90/share** (currently ~$0.95). - Small position (≤3% of VTOL allocation). - **Price Target:** $2.50+ if certification succeeds (2026). --- ### 🔋 **Critical Enablers: Less Volatile, High Upside** #### **1. Honeywell ($HON)** - **Role:** Makes avionics, motors, and flight controls for eVTOLs. - **Advantage:** - Supplies **Joby, Archer, Supernal**. - Steady dividends (2.3% yield). - **Entry:** Buy below **$190/share** (currently ~$195). #### **2. EHang ($EH)** - **Role:** Autonomous air taxis (dominant in China). - **Catalyst:** - World’s 1st certified passenger eVTOL (China, 2023). - Scaling flights in Guangzhou/Shenzhen. - **Risk:** U.S. delisting threat (China-based). - **Entry:** Buy **$14–$16/share** (currently ~$18). #### **3. Blade Air Mobility ($BLDE)** - **Role:** *Operator* (not manufacturer) of urban air routes. - **Edge:** - Already profitable (helicopters → eVTOLs). - Partnering with **Beta, Joby, Electra**. - **Entry:** Buy **$2.80–$3.20/share** (currently ~$3.05). --- ### ⚡ **Battery Tech: The Fuel of eVTOLs** - **QuantumScape ($QS):** Solid-state batteries (2x energy density). - Entry: **$5.50–$6.50** (wait for pullback; high risk). - **Microvast ($MVST):** Aviation-grade battery packs. - Entry: **$0.35–$0.45** (speculative but cheap). --- ### 💡 **Smart Portfolio Allocation** | **Ticker** | % of VTOL Allocation | Entry Price | Notes | |------------|----------------------|------------------|---------------------------| | **$JOBY** | 40% | $4.50–$5.50 | Anchor position | | **$ACHR** | 25% | <$3.60 | High volatility | | **$HON** | 15% | <$190 | Safe dividend | | **$BLDE** | 10% | $2.80–$3.20 | Operator leverage | | **$QS** | 10% | $5.50–$6.50 | Battery moonshot | *(Keep total VTOL allocation ≤ 30% of your overall portfolio)* --- ### ⚠️ **Critical Rules** 1. **Never chase pumps:** eVTOL stocks can surge 50% in a week then crash. 2. **Set sell triggers:** - Sell 25% at 2x gain. - Sell another 25% at 3x. - Hold the rest 5–10 years. 3. **DCA > lump sum:** Invest in 3–4 chunks over 6 months to average down. --- ### 📅 **Timeline to "Never Worry About Money"** - **2025–2027:** Ride certification catalysts ($JOBY, $ACHR 3–5x). - **2028–2030:** Shift profits into cash-flow assets (real estate, dividend stocks). - **2035+:** If VTOLs become the "next EVs," your $10K could grow to $250K+. > *"The big money is made by sitting, not trading."* > — **Jesse Livermore** ---

cnaik1987

If you have access to a chat, GPT ask for an assessment of the VTOL sector for the next 10 years and go from there. I did it this morning and it gave me a whole bunch of good advice acknowledge on companies that are in the sector. They’re worth looking at archer is one of them along with Joby.

TowerStreet1

Friends I keep saying this whenever I see Archer getting hyped… They are mostly style over substance. PR over progress. Promises over delivery. Misleading vs Factual Etc. They don’t have certifiable product. They has one prototype which is has been exploited as showpiece than actual testing….and their second prototype is having major design changes than first one… They product is too heavy and cannot VTOL so now they showing hat as CTOL. Lastly for what it matters Cathie/Ark has invested here and this is also recommended by Jim Cramer!! This cult has setup separate sub r/ACHR where if you asked question they ban you.

Josiah_Bartlet

Huh? That have already proven VTOL.

TowerStreet1

Friends I keep saying this whenever I see Archer getting hyped… They are mostly style over substance. PR over progress. Promises over delivery. Misleading vs Factual Etc. They don’t have certifiable product. They has one prototype which is has been exploited as showpiece than actual testing….and their second prototype is having major design changes than first one… They product is too heavy and cannot VTOL so now they showing hat as CTOL. Lastly for what it matters Cathie/Ark has invested here and this is also recommended by Jim Cramer!! This cult has setup separate sub r/ACHR where if you asked question they ban you.