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You will spend your coins or they will cease being a store of value. Bitcoin is resistance money. You can either choose to support the system that you claim to want to resist, or you can get with the times and start learning about BTC as MOE.
It was an MOE already... it's only a SOV now because it failed as money due to its physical nature.
I'm not saying gold can become a MOE. I'm saying its value is a SOV.
You are not even in the lobby of the rabbit hole sir. Its a start though You cannot have MOE without SOV first, and neither could gold. I'm not sure how thing gold became money in the first place. As if we all decided to trade it suddenly.
This is how monetization **HAS TO** work. 1. Store of value (SOV): People must want to hold the money. 2. Medium of Exchange (MOE): enough people must hold it that it makes sense to use it as money 3. Unit of account (UOA): Enough people use it for payment that it makes sense to measure price signal with it. Bitcoin will not be a stable money for years though. It has a tremendous amount of appreciation needed before then. It will have to have a $50T+ cap to be a stable money
The error in the question is "still". As other comments have said it has never proven to be a store of value and hedge against inflation. The reason it is marketed as such is because it failed it's first mission/outperformed by other cryptos as a "peer to peer digital currency" so then they switched to market the narrative of store of value/digital gold. I echo the beliefs that it has a tough time being that if it is not a good MOE but I guess if enough people believe it is a store of value then it can be that eventually. Right now, it's still a risk asset.
This is how money is adopted: SOV, then MOE, then UOA We are still at SOV because there is SO much upside left during monetization Eventually, it will be used far more. There is also the problem of taxes that make it hard to spend Once that is gone Bitcoin will just be money eventually.
Hello. What do SOV, MOE and UOA stand for? I'm currently learning about this (crypto, bitcoin)
If you know what to use, it can. Bitcoin changed my life simply because I understand that it will be monetized over decades and if you live in a modernized country and have a stream of excess income you can not only outperform the market, you can simply shatter it, consistently. And anyone who has understood this has done just that. I'm actually very grateful I am not someone who lives in a place where they *must* use Bitcoin all the time. Places in Africa use Bitcoin simply because they are unbanked. US will be one of the last countries to use Bitcoin in everyday life. Monetization takes a very long time. It will need to be accepted as a SOV until almost everyone holds some. At that point we will start to see MOE and shortly after that the money becomes the UOA. Just like all money, store of value is the most important part because that is what creates network effect.
MOE can take decades. Every money ever adopted by humans has undergone store of value phase first. It’s the most important part of being money Long after that is established you get MOE Then… after everyone uses it, it’ll become the UOA
I’ve been unimpressed with the quality. And skeptical of the training claims. But if they have truly cut down on inference costs, with the MOE approach, that should be significant and would be hard to game. Let’s see if they can keep up with demand and pricing going forward
Who would’ve thought the hodl, SOV, digital gold etc narrative would result in centralization at the top of the economy. There were people who warned about leaving the MOE, Digital Cash system. www.hijackingbitcoin.com r/leopardsatemyface
SOV until adoption curve flattens and volatility fades, then MOE
Fast low cost payments on blockchains exist. That they aren't free like with fiat is a logical consequence of self custody. Banks offer you free payments because they have your money to work with. They compensate the transaction cost in other ways. The question that I ponder is why do business not accept crypto payments, possibly even at a discount vs fiat. My thinking is why do they prefer the unlimited MOE over the limited MOE. Last thought and maybe I should have started with that, crypto is not just about a monetary system. It is supposed to do more like supply chain management, tokenization of RWA, decentralized prediction markets, decentralized social media platforms etc.
That's simply not true. Adoptions in tech are usually S curves. No different than other technological life cycles Early stage the numbers are flat, growth stage the adoption rate gets much steeper due to spread of information being exponential, then it goes through the maturity stage that relatively flattens it out after majority of adoption has occurred. After the flattening at millions per coin is where we'll see MOE characteristics. After asymmetrical opportunity is mostly gone.
Thank you for providing such a factual answer. It is very much appreciated. I think understanding the breakdown of that 6% is critical when talking about (and I'm focused on BTC here) the chances of it becoming a means of payment. If the majority of the growth in ownership is due to the ETF's, that does not change the MOE dynamic. It is my belief that ETF's are the cause for the gain in holders. Also, I understand that people are hopeful about the Reserve fund, however, I legit can't see that happening at any time in the near future. I have reasons but I won't bore you with them. Thanks again.
Phoenix is my favorite for using lightning to buy things. If you are okay with custodial then use Blink. I think it's very important to support as MOE. I spend Bitcoin wherever I can, and actively try to onboard businesses.
>The primary driver of inflation is shocks to supply and demand. If that were the primary driver, its effects would reverse once the shock resolves. The primary driver is debasement. You can feed a family for a month for about as much gold as it cost 80 years ago. Two things are needed to limit inflation. 1. the MOE cannot be debased. 2. the MOE is value aka requires work to be produced. As long as people give their value in exchange for a promise that you can get value from others (fiat), that promise will always devalue against having the value "in hand" right away.
You say that there at 19.76M BTC in circulation but you are not addressing the well documented 20-30% that has been lost. Why not? Also, right now, there are approximately 30MM+ owners of BTC. There are 8 Billion people in the world. Let's say we only look at the 300MM people in the US. That would mean only 10% of people own it. I think what everyone is missing is: It is not the "safest" asset if 20-30% is missing or lost. For it to be adopted as a means of exchange or some type of fiat replacement you need to convince 90% of the US to own it. Also, for prices to go up, you need both supply to shrink or be limited (which I understand) and DEMAND to go up. The only reason I have heard for increased demand is to protect people from the depreciation of the USD due to inflation. However, you price your BTC in dollars. Therefore when the spending power of the USD goes down, so does your BTC. The argument to that is that BTC will only go higher, offsetting the depreciation in USD. However, if it is not going to be a MOE and only 10% of people own it, where does the demand come in to drive the price higher? I understand people have made a lot of money on this, however, the future value is only based on hope and the faith that someday it will hold some type of leadership position in the global economy. If only .375% (so 1/3 of 1%) of the population have it or only 10% of people in the US own it, there is no way it will grow into anything significant when there is only 10% left to be mined. It would have already happened. I understand these are unpopular positions, however, I welcome the discussion and am happy to learn something if I am wrong.
The Bitcoin network cannot be stopped; it will function as long as there are people running Bitcoin client software. What will happen with the price in the short term is uncertain, but one thing is clear: in the short term, there may be volatility, large manipulations, etc., but in the long term, Bitcoin's value will only increase. You need to understand the concept of hard money. Hard money always wins. Why is that? It's simple everyone wants hard money, no one wants to lose. Everyone wants money whose purchasing power increases, and no one wants money whose purchasing power decreases, like fiat currencies. Money has three uses: Store of Value (SOV), Medium of Exchange (MOE), and Unit of Account (UOA). Every form of money must first be something valuable that people collect as a Store of Value, and then it becomes a Medium of Exchange and a Unit of Account. Therefore, Bitcoin will become a universally accepted medium of exchange. You won't have to sell Bitcoin at the end of the game; you'll be able to spend it, because, in the end, all merchants will accept Bitcoin.
Hyperbitcoinization is inevitable. Money is a social consensus that we use to facilitate the trade of goods and services. Throughout history, money has taken many forms, but it consistently serves three functions: SOV (Store of Value), UOA (Unit of Account), and MOE (Medium of Exchange). Bitcoin has already crossed the Rubicon, and there are enough people around the world who already use it as money, primarily as an SOV. It's also important to understand that every form of money in monetary history first evolves as an SOV, and then it becomes an MOE and UOA. Hard money always wins; no one wants to lose, and everyone wants to use hard money. Therefore, the number of people using Bitcoin as money, specifically as an SOV, will continue to grow, and eventually, Bitcoin will become both a UOA and MOE. So, you won't need to sell Bitcoin for millions—Bitcoin will become universally accepted as an MOE and UOA.
Peter doesn’t understand money at all. Is he doing it on purpose? I see he owns a gold trading company, or is it truly a lack of knowledge about money? I'm not sure. Money is a social system we use to facilitate the trade of goods and services. Throughout history, money has taken many forms, but it consistently serves three functions: SOV (Store of Value), UOA (Unit of Account), and MOE (Medium of Exchange). People still use gold as money today in the SOV role, even though, due to its poor characteristics as money, gold has lost its function as an MOE and UOA. Because of gold's weaknesses as money, banks emerged, and so did today's fiat system. Jack is absolutely right: Bitcoin has better characteristics as money than gold and can play the role of money more effectively. Who will be the long-term winner between gold and Bitcoin? Harder money always wins. Gold, with 2% inflation, will increase its supply over 50 years, while Bitcoin will never exceed 21 million.
You have to have a money that people chose before you have a medium of exchange You actually can’t have one without the other. Adoption comes far before stability essentially SOV then MOE then UOA
Every single fiat currency ends in disaster and hyperinflation. Not only will this happen with the Turkish lira or whatever the Indian currency is called, but hyperinflation will also occur with the USD and EUR, which are today considered safer and have an inflation rate of 5% or 10%. When hyperinflation occurs, there will be no return to gold. Gold had flaws as money; it wasn’t a good Medium of Exchange (MOE) for several reasons,such as the difficulty in verifying authenticity or transporting it. In today’s digital world, you can’t send gold online, etc. Bitcoin, as the most superior form of money the world has ever seen, practically has all the characteristics that good money should have. It can perform all the functions of money. Bitcoin will become the Medium of Exchange (MOE) and Unit of Account (UOE) the global money
Bitcoin will become the Medium of Exchange (MOE) and Unit of Account (UOE). Every fiat currency ends with hyperinflation, and the same will happen with the USD it's only a matter of time. When hyperinflation occurs, people will switch to harder money. Will we return to gold? Of course not. Gold wasn't good as a MOE, and that's why fiat was created. Bitcoin is the hardest money in monetary history, and the Lightning Network is the best MOE we have.
Looks like it may be using LN bc of the conversions between BTC&EUR. Just spend and replace. Upping the velocity of BTC by using it as a MOE aids in adoption. One of the reasons the US dollar holds its value against other fiat is because it's so widely accepted.
SOV > MOE > UOA That's how it happens
Bitcoin is money, and the functions of money are a store of value, a unit of account, and a medium of exchange. Every form of money starts as a store of value (SOV), meaning it is valuable as a collectible, and then it becomes a medium of exchange (MOE) and a unit of account (UA). Bitcoin will become widely accepted as a medium of exchange; you won’t need fiat money. Even today, you can use Bitcoin as a medium of exchange to pay for various goods and services. In some countries, like El Salvador, it has even been declared legal [tender.You](http://tender.You) can pay with Bitcoin at all places, even at McDonald's. Here, you have a video on YouTube showing what buying a burger at McDonald's in El Salvador looks like. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/25\_VkeiT4R0](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/25_VkeiT4R0)
There are no asymmetric opportunities that are easily understood I’ve held Tesla stock for a long time watching people be wrong, over and over again, while I watched it all unfold. Bitcoin is unfolding right now. Soon it won’t be like this If everyone understood it wouldn’t be rapidly appreciating, we would just use it as a MOE and UOA
SOV first, then MOE, then UOA Could happen faster than most think. Who had 2 presidential candidates shilling at the Bitcoin conference on their bingo cards from 2020? Not me.
There is also MKR for a value play. MOE for a small cap play.
Seems like you have more to study about monetization. You'll understand the stages Bitcoin is going to go through much better afterwards. No one in modern countries are going to race out and spend the hardest money humans have ever created during early adoption. You really want to buy a pizza that will be worth $20M one day? Most of us don't. We want to stack. Right now, the unbanked 3rd world are who *need* to use it as MOE. The fortunate will use it as a SOV until monetization stabilizes and it makes more sense as a MOE for people brainwashed into the fiat system.
Not a debate, just a literal definition. Currency is legal. Money is any MOE, UOA and SOV.
I don't need to reference wiki so I can make a comment on Reddit. I've read many books on money over the years as a Bitcoin holder. All 3 Saifedean books, Lyn Alden's Broken Money, History of Money, Psychology of Money etc. I recommend Broken Money. In your "socio-economic" sense, many things have been used as money. The very first money ever discovered was literally just a ledger carved into stone. Furs, salt, shells, beads, and even boulders were all a MOE, UOA and a SOV. You last paragraph is completely false. If it were true, then literally every other asset that you can measure in dollars would have gained proportional value to Bitcoin, which we all know hasn't happened. Just because you personally choose not to measure things in Bitcoin, doesn't make it any less of a unit of measure. People use it more as a UOA every day to give perception to the asymmetrical increase in its buying power vs other assets or savings vehicles.
Money has taken many forms through the ages, but money consistently has three use case: **store of value, unit of account, and medium of exchange** Bitcoin is already legal tender in two countries, San Salvador and the Central African Republic Bitcoin Lightning network is perfect, it can process millions of transactions per second, Visa can only 25,000 Watch the video, you can order in McDonald’s and pay with bitcoin This is a MOE use case [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aPlZtuVSzgk](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aPlZtuVSzgk)
Would prefer it be recognised as a currency- one that is not imposed by force by the government but one people can choose freely to adopt and use. But the bankers and governments have slyly designated it as a commodity to make use as a currency effectively impractical in almost all jurisdictions except El Salvador, some Swiss cantons and now maybe Argentina too where those governments have recognised their citizens right to freedom of choice in what currency they choose to use for MOE.
BTC at this point is essentially digital real property. Owning a parcel of land is similar to owning BTC. Land will never be a MOE or UOA, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value. If I need money and all my wealth is in the land I own, I prolly have to sell all of it (or a portion with possibly transaction costs, e.g., surveys, legal descriptions, zoning approvals, marketing costs). But if I own BTC I can sell a fraction instantly with no significant transaction costs. Point is: Not using it as MOE doesn't mean it does have value, and it doesn't mean it's being used "wrong". BTC may be used differently in the future, but now I view it as digital real estate.
They might but even if I thought it was a good trade how would I even facilitate it? Even if the physical is within an hour drive, still need to verify it onsite then transport it. Gold cannot be a MOE in a digital world.
I strongly agree with you. I feel like that was about half the list and then they were just like..... *...eenie meenie miney MOE!*
Thank you that's very reassuring. I also hold Fidelity in high regard. They never seem to get caught up in fines, crimes, scandals..etc like many other trad fi firms regularly do. It's also possible that one day the government could tell Fidelity to block your access to your money. Fidelity would 100% comply with that. If you are interested in bitcoin adoption as a MOE then spending and replacing bitcoin will increasingly become important as time goes on. Your bitcoin at Fidelity will not be accessible to those opportunities. All the freedoms afforded to a person through bitcoin are surrendered with custody providers. I totally get why so many feel comfortable with Fidelity and similar but I think highlighting these other attributes that often go overlooked by many is important to consider. Cheers.
MOE of the future. I do think we will scan QR codes & then sign transactions based on distributed ledger technology in order to pay for goods & services. Physical coins & bank notes are a pain to handle. Credit card transactions are expensive & we don't really want the plastic in our wallets either. The only question for the long run is: State controlled digital money (CBDCs) or publicly controlled crypto (like BTC) or privately controlled crypto (the centralized chains).