IDEV
iShares Core MSCI International Developed Market
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Doesn't look like you're replying to the right person, but a couple considerations: > NASDAQ is pure us tech Not true. > all the non US markets that have been pretty flat or negative this year Also not true. Developed international markets (e.g. IDEV) is +26% YTD, and emerging (e.g. IEMG) is +28%, whereas the S&P (e.g. VOO) is +16%. It's been a very strong year of ex-US equities; not sure what the deal is with OP's fund.
Hey man, I saw you a lot around here and your advice is pretty easy for a beginner like me to understand. Mind if I ask you a question? Right now, I’m in a similar position. I only hold SPYM but want to add more international diversification. If I plan to hold long term, what do you think of IDMO + AVDV. I feel like this cover both ends of developing markets. But I’m also willing to switch out IDMO for AVDE, IDEV or FENI. I also plan to add some forms of EM like AVEM, AVES or FRDM. Personally, what do you think about these funds? I plan to do 20% for DM and 10% for EM.
how are we all feeling about IDMO vs IDEV now?
This is actually a really well-thought-out portfolio 👏 You’ve done a great job blending growth, quality, and international diversification while keeping simplicity and balance. The barbell approach between QQQM and SCHD is smart — it captures momentum without leaning too heavy on tech. RSP also does an underrated job of mitigating top-heavy risk from the S&P 500, so nice call there. If I were to tweak anything, it’d just be small refinements: 1. Consider a small-cap or emerging markets slice (like AVUV or VWO, maybe 5–10%) to capture long-term factor diversification and global growth outside developed markets. 2. Think about tax efficiency and rebalancing frequency. SCHD throws off solid dividends, so if this is in a taxable account, just make sure that aligns with your tax strategy. 3. IDEV is fine, but VXUS or IXUS could give you slightly broader exposure if you ever want emerging markets automatically included. Overall though — simple, diversified, logical, and low-cost. This is the kind of setup most investors would benefit from sticking with for decades. Nicely done
Looks like a good blend overall imo. The only thing I would mention is an international developed market ETF like IDEV doesn't target emerging markets like China or Taiwan so you're losing some diversification there. Unless that was your intention you might consider weaving in some emerging market ETF like SCHE/VWO or just buying a total international market ETF like VXUS instead.
Right. Should clarify that - I came from an "emerging country" and personally I don't want that exposure. So my candidates for International Pillar are really IDEV, VEA, SCHF, etc. Developed market only
Nice day to have loaded up on PM after the dividend last week. Think I’ll let it ride. In my taxable, some SGOV to open a position in IDEV, finally. Will keep nibbling. And always buying Berkshire under $500.
I bought a lot of VIGI instead of IDEV and it's killing me lol
I’m planning on buying SPTM, IDEV and FRDM for my IRA, but the market hasn’t dropped enough to buy much. My only substantial funds are IVV and CSXAX in taxable accounts. SPTM: S&P 1500. IDEV: Developed Markets ex USA. FRDM: Emerging markets ex China-like countries. IVV: S&P 500. CSXAX: S&P 500 ESG.
> I found that quite a lot of these other international funds predominantly hold US stocks If you're looking at *global* funds, yes; the US is huge on the world stage of equities. But if you want international diversification, VXUS, IDEV, IEMG, etc. will not have US holdings.
For total international (non-US), it’s VXUS or VEU for Vanguard. VXUS has more small caps as a % though VEU has a slight performance advantage most years. The iShares IXUS is between the 2. Some separate international further out into 3 developed to 1 emerging (so VEA, IDEV or SCHF to VWO, IEMG, or SCHE).
For total international (non-US), it’s VXUS or VEU. VXUS has more small caps as a % though VEU has a slight performance advantage most years. The iShares IXUS is between the 2. Some separate international further out into developed> emerging (so VEA, IDEV or SCHF>VWO, IEMG, or SCHE).
Do you ever think about how silly ETFs are, I've spent thousands of dollars buying something called IDEV
As I mentioned in another comment, the benchmark uses the MSCI indices for each country, gross return (i.e. inclusive of dividends), denominated in USD. Specifically, it uses the investable market index (IMI), which also includes smaller companies. There isn't an ETF product directly linked to the MSCI USA IMI index, but this is basically completely correlated with the CRSP US Total Stock Market index, to which VTI is benchmarked. They basically [move together](https://i.imgur.com/JCuCF1c.png). There also aren't ideal country-specific ETF products to track the IMI. For instance, the [MSCI China IMI index](https://www.msci.com/indexes/index/664216) has 784 holdings, but Blackrock's MCHI tracks MSCI China, not the IMI, and only has 550 holdings. It also has an expense ratio of 0.59%, and similary across the board for all the country-specific ETFs. You do get a better comparison if you go with broad international ETFs, instead of country specific ones: - Blackrock's IDEV tracks the MSCI World ex USA IMI index for 0.04% (developed ex-US). - Blackrock's IEMG tracks the MSCI Emerging Markets IMI index for 0.07%. As you can see, there is some slight tracking error between the ETFs and the indices they track, but it has actually favored the ETFs so far this year (i.e. better for investors).
I literally just put IRA money in IDEV Friday :(
Foreign markets ripping today: - IDEV (MSCI Developed ex-US): +1.82% - DFIV (DFA Developed Large Value): +2.39%! - IEMG (MSCI Emerging): +0.90% I prefer VEA and VWO for their lower expense ratios, but DFIV benchmarks against the MSCI instead of FTSE.
You can just search on the vanguard or blackrock website for a lot of different large indexes. IEUR is total market Europe, IDEV is developed ex US, etc
Why Europe specifically? Are you trying to target other developed economies? Or just expand generally beyond the US? VXUS is a great fund because it's cheap and invests broadly across the entire rest of the world. If you want only developed nations, consider IDEV, SCHF, SPDW, VEA. I'd only do Europe specifically if you are investing in some idea that is tied to that continent.
I think I’ve come to the conclusion that IDMO might be a little too volatile for my liking, not to mention it’s only 200 companies. However, VXUS’s 7500 holdings seems too high for my liking. What are your thoughts on IDEV, a nice middle ground? I realize this excludes emerging markets. However, I’m someone who’s been on the fence about international for a while now, so I figure this is at least better than nothing.
First thing that sticks out to me is that AUM is a lot smaller, if you are worried about liquidity if you want to exit your position under pressure. The 1Y beta is pretty high at 0.81 which isn't necessarily bad, but something to keep an eye on. VXUS, IDEV are far less volatile, but return less. They have much higher AUM at $493150M and $19861M compared to IDMO at $902M. Personally I have IDV on my shortlist, which performs similarly to IDMO, but less volatile, larger AUM, value category is the main difference; might want to check as an option. Since much of the markets are so interconnected, most follow the same sort of pattern at the same time. It's more a matter of finding the best performing ones with acceptable risk to you.
I like VIGI or IGRO more as selecting for companies that are actually good. IDK what is diversified enough geographically since any of these funds are overweight or underweight certain countries compared to IDEV.
In the grand scheme of things probably can ignore them, as it’s only one or two that get bumped up every so often, leaving the rest. In the US private equity probably has all the good ones and, especially in the emerging markets, Wisdomtree figured out to use dividends as the biggest market caps would do nada. On the other hand, small caps usually tend to attract attention at the start of a bull market and get bid up. So if rebalancing regularly, in an all-caps index fund like VTI or ITOT, .. the small caps that went up would be sold proportionately. Maybe for developed all caps as well (VEA, IDEV). Not sure of the EM SC. Could also split the difference. Have VOO and VTI with rebalancing out of the latter first, maybe second. Then rebalance out of VOO.
Domestically, read where the utility sector is the least correlated with the broad stock market, though they’ll take a hit in a serious recession. The developed international markets (VEA, IDEV, IEFA) might have started to become uncorrelated with the U.S. market, as they were from 1950 - ‘00s. Emerging markets are a bit new and China has its own schedule so far, so could separate it (FXX, MCHI). The rest of the emerging market may depend on India’s growth, so separate it out a bit further (EMXC but Vanguard is coming out with their own version).
> Missing out on big US gains while I'm young isn't appealing to me. Yet here you are already missing out on international gains; IDEV is +17% YTD, VOO is +1%.
> Are advisors a waste for someone like me who just wants to keep it simple, boring but likes to have a solid retirement going heavy VOO? Idk, how likely are you to fuck it up? How certain are you that US equities, leaning in the tech direction, are the best bet over the next 20 years? Knowing that the strength of US and ex-US equities are cyclical and go back and forth, what's your sentiment on YTD performance of international developed markets versus domestic? VOO is sitting at roughly -9% on the year, QQQ is -11%, IDEV is +4%. If international developed markets beat US domestic through the end of the year, do you change your investment plan? How about if it carries for 3 years? More? How's your overall financial literacy with retirement planning? Do you have a de-risk strategy and timeline for it? Game plan for whether you take social security as soon as possible, or defer it as late as possible?
It’s not even in the same universe. First off, great job realizing you’re getting honestly and completely fucked over by fees. You are. Regarding Bogle, this is the guy telling you that the 1% fee the other guys are taking will become a 25% *loss* over your investing period. We’re talking hundreds of thousands of dollars or more. He’s showing you how to invest intelligently without paying anyone anything. Go to any retirement calculator and throw some numbers for an estimated few decades. In the “estimated return” section, throw in a number like 7%. Then change it to 6%. If you do it correctly, estimate 35-40 years investing, estimate yearly contributions, you’ll see an absolutely massive loss at just 1% return difference. Your advisors are taking that 1%. Your advisors are probably also investing you in an overly complex set of funds and ETFs so that when you look at the statement, you’re like “this is complicated, I can’t do that”. Those mutual funds likely also have *their own* fees ranging from .5 to 1%, so just chop down your returns even further for whatever chunk of money is in those funds. It’s a well-studied fact that less than 10% of professional advisors beat the market. If less than 10% of pros beat the market, far less *casuals* are beating it. You can *be* the market by investing in simple, low cost, broad-market funds. This is where all your retirement money should be. If you want to gamble with extra investment money on top of that, sure buy some more targeted funds or individual stocks. Just know that, as I said, this is much closer to gambling. The Bogleheads view is typically a three fund approach comprising of a broad market US fund, a completely non-US fund, and a bond fund. This provides you exposure to the US market, external markets, and the safety and stability of US bonds. I personally do 65% VTI / 20% IDEV (most recommend VXUS) / 15% BND. This comprises all of my retirement funds. No more advisor fees. No more mutual fund fees. No more trying to beat the market.
Or IDEV, SCHY, VEA, SCHF, etc...I think they wanted country-specific ETFs though like FCHL, INDA, EWJ, or EWU. i may be mistaken. VXUS is a good and very broad option if they want maximum exposure.
IDEV is up like 8% YTD. IEV is even higher, like 13%. What hit are you talking about?
Agreed. I never understood why SCHE have 30% or little so in China. That’s too much for what’s going on there. IDEV a good choice?
Yeah thanks Ultimately this is what I went with. Mix of ETFs to cover different markets VOO majority then IDEV/VXUS second most. Then less amounts of VUG/AVUV/VWO/VTI and only 2% each of my portfolio into FALN/VTEB/SCHD which I’ll transition more to in 20-30 years
MORT and KLIP also add in some TSLY and TQQQ /s lol can anyone say NAV depletion Honestly though maybe SPLG 70%, SLYV 20%, and IDEV 10%?
Teach me...I'm wondering about them and need to learn why or why not to get one. I honestly cannot form a clear opinion on them. To use a metaphor, there is so much "candy" in the store that I keep having decision fatigue trying to get the best piece. I have an S&P ETF (SPLG). I have small cap value (AVUV). I have internationals (IDEV). I have loads of individual picks that seemed good after some digging. Am I misguided in thinking gold may be something else to diversify into? I'm genuinely curious and would love to learn from someone who has experience without paying an advisor to "sell" me on their ideas. Thanks in advance for any advice you're willing to share. 🙏
Some I use are: VBR --small cap value IMCB --Midcaps IDEV --Developed markets outside the US
VEA might be better to hold if you don’t want emerging markets. Reason: VEA uses the FTSE index and IDEV uses the MSCI index, which appears to be broader. FTSE considers South Korea a developed market, whereas MSCI considers it an emerging market. Samsung (South Korean) is among VEA’s top holdings but not IDEV’s. So if you held IDEV, you’d need EMXC too if you wanted South Korea exposure. I’d go with VEA if you don’t want EM.
Thinking about getting VEA and not buying EM at all. Then VEA is a better fit than IDEV?
EMXC is emerging markets minus China. If you buy it, you’ll want to own IDEV instead of VEA, because their holdings are slightly different and IDEV is meant to be owned with EMXC.
Thanks! Is there any difference between VEA and IDEV? Is EMXC considered to be very risky ?
Look at IDEV and EMXC.
It's always a great time to be in the market. The best time is 50 years ago and the second best is 49 years ago and the third best is now. It's also a great time to maybe not overweight the market cap portfolio due to the megacap overpriced conundrum. Value and international look attractive. AVUV, AVNV, IDEV, stuff like that.
SPLG DIA QQQM I'd say pick a mixture of those and you're good as far as reducing risk and having good exposure to the US. You could even argue that you'd be in the market globally through the companies in the indexes that extend beyond the US. Or add either VXUS or my favorite non-US ETF currently IDEV.
Been investing for probably around 15 years now but really started diving deep 4 or 5 years ago. And yes, admittedly the foreign equity section is probably overly complicated. The goal there was to allow for more easy adjustments of EM concentration but a better way to do that would probably just drop the IDEV component and add that to VXUS. I'll play around with that.
what correlation are you trying to extrapolate from the last 5 years in terms of s&p 500 funds having exposure in the international markets? My point is that IVV should have done better than IJR based on the idea that IVV has the exposure needed that funds like IDEV capture. But that didn't happen, because s&p 500 in fact does not have that kind of exposure. ​ I'd look much further back than that when comparing us markets to international and during times of high inflation and high interest rates (neither of which have been the case for the past decade before 2022) international consistently outperformed by quite a margin.
>Look at IVV, IJR and IDEV YTD LOL, using the past 12 month as "proof" is trying to time the market dude. Look at the past 5 years return and get back to me.
Look at IVV, IJR and IDEV YTD to see how S&P 500 does not grant you the international exposure you want. International beat the us market by a lot. So IDEV obviously did best, and since IVV has more "exposure" to international markets than IJR does, you'd think IVV would do better than IJR, which is a small cap fund, right? Nope, IDEV was first, IJR was second, and IVV was third. S&P500 provides hardly any exposure to international markets in terms of investing. Just because you see mcdonalds or apple products being sold in Japan doesn't mean they are international investments. It doesn't account for how these other markets behave, it doesn't account for foreign currency exchanges in any meaningful capacity, and it ignore 99% of the actual stocks that are out there, which are the real movers on the international market. Other markets are already outperforming the US and the S&P 500. This isn't something happening in the future, it's currently happening.
IDEV is an ETF around developed markets. Look at the holdings and explore their fundamentals.
Just make sure they have good holdings and have a low expense ratio. Here’s my favorites: SCHG (large-cap growth) SCHD (Dividend/Large Value) IDEV (Dev Mkts International) IJR (Small-Cap) VO (MID-CAP) VOO (S&P 500)
IDEV? Developed market ETF. More than Europe, but lots of Europe in it.
Yes so buy Developed Markets (VEA or IDEV).
More familiarity with U.S. businesses and policy, and I have zero reason to believe that China will let their most promising businesses run free over the long term. I’m in world market funds via Blackrock LifePath target date funds in my Roth 401(k), but my Roth IRA and brokerage are all U.S. I may diversify internationally in those accounts, but will likely do so through IDEV.
> I suggested value, shorting bond yields and buying internationally. Since then IVE (value) +2.5% TBX (short treasuries) +2% IDEV (developed int'l) -4% IEMG (emerging) -4% and of course for comparison SPY (unchanged) Interesting victory lap you seem to be taking.
Hey everyone! I'm 20 years old looking to walk away with money within the next 10-15 years, but longer term is also the goal. I'm invested in CCL (since march 2020), LUV, VTI, VTWO, IDEV, JETS, AAPL, DIS, and DKNG. I've been slowly adding money into these positions but mostly into VTI, AAPL, and DIS. Any advice on how I should adjust? I'm open to anything.