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Looking for FTX Perp Traders/ Buddies/ Mentors!

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Can I Buy And Sell Daily? Bitcoin on Robinhood. Homeless.

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What would happen if two individuals try to minimize and maximise profits?

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200 weeks

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Diversifying from crypto to reduce stress, ETFs/index funds explained, 4% rule and dividends

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has anyone put their entire savings into crypto?

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putting all your money into stocks or crypto?

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Am I investing correctly for my future?

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Why does cryptocurrency have so many fees associated with it?

Mentions

I think this is the best answer OP. $3k spread across three different cryptos can vanish within weeks. Obviously there are safer choices (BTC, ETH) however it’s still considered a volatile asset. VTI, VOO, VNQ, are much safer and solid choices. Maybe $2k in those index funds and $1k between BTC and ETH.

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

I'd recommend checking out the Bogleheads method/subreddit some people go VT (world market) some people go VTI (small/mid/large cap of US market) some people go VOO (large cap of US market) some people go VTI + VXUS (also world market but lower expense ratio and more stocks than VT)

Mentions:#VT#VOO

Buddy. I'd avoid that crypto club. Infact I'd be learning about ETFs at your age and buying VOO or SPY instead lol.

Mentions:#VOO#SPY

Negative. I understand what you’re describing here. My deposit amount, relative frequency, and course of action with said deposit has always been the same: $25 (I mostly go into VOO), about once monthly, deposited first from my checking account into my Coinbase wallet as USD, and then from the Coinbase wallet to BTC usually a couple days later but sometimes immediately upon deposit. Additionally, all identify documents used in the original verification remain valid for at least one more calendar year.

Mentions:#VOO#BTC

I do have screen shots of the conversation at hand, I didn’t even know what FUD was, I was just asking a genuine question because as stated elsewhere I’m a casual and I just don’t know what is and isn’t kosher. Y’all can do whatever the hell you want with your money, my plan was to DCA on VOO and BTC which from my limited understanding is counterintuitive to FUD.

Mentions:#FUD#VOO#BTC

Are we still talking about investment or are you trying to drive it somewhere else? Growth stocks are never investment choice. They are growth for a reason. Most stable investment stock have low growth but they pay dividend and generally with solid credit rating and diversified assets. See how those that fit these criteria are not down as much as the others. Amazon, microsoft, google, etc. Or large index fund like VOO or VTWAX. The one trick ponies like facebook or netflix are much more susceptible to a crisis. Bitcoin is not an investment choice. It is as much a one trick pony like the other growth stocks. You can play with it and daytrade with it. But not invest in it. Unless, of course, your definition of investment is different from mine.

Mentions:#VOO

I didn't know the global stock market is down 70% YOY. Pray tell, which index are you looking at? The crypto index? Or are you talking about ETF? Maybe if you buy one that is heavily into crypto like ARK. All other healthy investment choice index like VOO isn't anywhere close to 50%, let alone 70%.

Mentions:#ARK#VOO

This is the challenge with a highly dynamic asset like crypto. If you simply buy and hold, you are making and then remaking the same money over and over. This can create a lot of pressure on DCAr's to sell out as they don't see progress over time like they would if they had simply invested in VOO or something similar that marches on a little better in one direction. It takes a level of sophistication to determine when to take profit and when to hold though, which the average person will lose money attempting on average. My point is, if you are moving your money around like this you need to have an understanding of what you are doing on the level of running it like a business to ensure success. Also, research has shown that the more frequently the average person touches their account, the more money they lose. So be careful taking the hands on approach because you are likely to be initiating trades based on FOMO and FUD which will lose you way more money than a buy and hold strategy with a less dynamic asset.

Mentions:#VOO#FUD

The statement “we have a transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy because of our monetary policy” is incorrect. Policy doesn’t *directly* create the transfer. Given that assets capture and preserve wealth, the mechanism of transfer delineates along the “asset owner” or “asset non-owner” divide. Whether you’re a sole owner of a successful restaurant, have $500 in VOO, or are a billionaire business founder, you’ll receive wealth through your assets over an extended time period. It’s more accurate to say, “there is a transfer of wealth from consumers to asset owners.”

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

DCA is definitely the most simple stress free way to invest (like auto investing in broad mutual funds after each paycheck); however, doing it in Bitcoin is still inherently stressful as it's extremely volatile and in new territory in this bear market. If you want less stress invest in a US total stock market or S&P500 ETF (VTI, VOO, etc.). 5,000 stocks hedges your risk quite well. You won't get rich quick, but you won't have 25% losses in 1 week like Bitcoin has been facing. You will also never experience a jump like Bitcoin did in 2021. If you have extra cash you're willing to completely risk, go for Bitcoin and DCA is the way, but don't invest your entire savings in it. That's absolute madness.

Mentions:#VOO

- Telling us you are buying gold/silver on a cryptocurrency subreddit is so stupid. - Buying Bitcoin on Strike is also stupid. They probably inflate the price of BTC and also charge ridiculous fees. - Putting your entire retirement account into crypto is also stupid. Just stick to index fund like VTI/VOO with IRA. And purchase crypto separately on an exchange like Gemini Active Trader with limit orders to not get ripped off by fees and inflated pricing. BTC has the least upside at these levels. Diversify in BTC/ETH/LINK/ALGO/MATIC. Solid projects that will survive the bear market.

> If you need the cash to buy items of first need such as food etc. then yeah. What in the world are you on about? Needing the money for basic living stuff isn’t the only time selling at a loss is advisable. You can write off a loss on your taxes and shift the money to an asset class you believe will perform better in the short term, smart investors do this all the time. Selling at a loss is *always* a sensible thing to do if you lose confidence in the asset meeting your expected return and goals over your portfolio’s time horizon. It’s not about whether you think the asset will eventually recover, but rather what asset you think will perform the best over the next 1-3 years (if you time horizon is longer than 3 years -‘s you just want to set and forget then you should just stick to VOO and call it a day)

Mentions:#VOO

i mean, if you didn't already diversify, hell yes do that. and don't just jump into a bunch of WSB stocks...actually diversify markets. grab some medical companies with a long history and consistent returns. grab some SPY and VOO, grab some blue chips, grab some tech. if you have a decent amount of money, talk to an ACTUAL fin advisor. best of all, don't get all your advice from reddit, for the love of god.

Mentions:#WSB#SPY#VOO

8-12% if you’re not a degenerate and only buy index funds like VOO For most people they underperform lol

Mentions:#VOO

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Okay thanks, maybe you can explain more? Yeah for the other 99% of non crypto investing, was going to go low cost Vanguard diversified funds. Aka VTI and VOO. etc..

Mentions:#VOO

It depends on your personal asset allocation strategy. Each to their own. This is my current allocation target for my liquid portfolio (ie not counting real estate), as an example only: - 20% BTC - 20% commodities (think COMT) - 20% growth equities (think QQQM or specific growth stocks) - 25% diversified equities (think VOO / IVV) - 5% bonds (think SCHP / BND) - 10% cash The actual allocation is of course not aligned exactly to it and fluctuates. At this time I don’t sell to rebalance, just direct periodical additional investment toward the asset class that is underweight the most.

Mentions:#BTC#COMT#VOO

People are re-entering into the market, which is a good sign. When people start investing their cash reserves they aren't going to start with the most risky options. Once comfort in the market in reestablished, investors will start looking for more risky investments. But right now, AAPL/MSFT/VOO/etc make much more sense for most.

Mentions:#AAPL#VOO

Thanks so much for the info. I’m waiting for more buying opportunities on my favorite ETFs VOO, QQQ, and SCHD as if my paperloss in crypto isn’t enough 😂

Mentions:#VOO#QQQ

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/uvunu3/britains_crypto_list_heres_who_to_watch/).

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

Buy an average house, leave $50K in cash, then diversify the rest to the following: 18% BTC 27% ETH 5% MATIC 30% VOO 10% VGT 5% MSFT 5% NVDA

All Hail VOO and VTI… I buy crypto for fun, it’s not a retirement strategy

Mentions:#VOO
r/BitcoinSee Comment

Thanks for the solid response. I’m kind of a boggle head so I mostly invest in the SNP 500 via the VOO etf. I’m thinking 10-20% Bitcoin. Kicked myself that I didn’t buy more at 5,000 but that’s split milk at this point. When I saw the crash last week I decided that this was the time to get serious. I’m also thinking of investing 10% into MSTR. Anyone else holding some Micro strategy as well? Thanks everyone for your responses

Mentions:#SNP#VOO#MSTR

You and OP can both kinda be right. I’m down almost 50% on what for a lot of people would be big money. I can afford to lose it. I know this is a complete experiment. It’s about 15% of my total portfolio. I’m way more anxious looking at all that $VOO carnage. I don’t think we’re near the bottom unfortunately.

Mentions:#OP#VOO
r/BitcoinSee Comment

They won’t buy bitcoin, they’re better off buying etf index funds (VOO or SPY). Bitcoin, literally, mirrors the QQQ. It’s not special, it’s an investment tool for people to make or lose money on. If the market continues its downward trend, bitcoin is going to get smashed. I would be surprised if it goes all the way back down to $5,000. (Lol, remember when people people, moronically, that it was going to $100k by YE 2021?) Bottom line is that bitcoin, nor any of the other 12,000 coins are special. They’re worth something as long as a sucker is willing to pay more. It’s inconvenient to hear it but it’s the truth nonetheless. Buy etf index funds, it will serve you better long term.

Mentions:#VOO#SPY#QQQ

No their post history suggests they're just a 'value investing' VOO drone. Buffet say bitcoin bad. Bitcoin bad.

Mentions:#VOO

If you want actual set and forget investing, just buy VTI or VOO every month n chill. Crypto is an interesting but high risk piece of an investment portfolio y'all, balanced with other lower risk things (eg index funds/ETFs/stocks/bonds/real estate/etc). Snag some BTC or ETH or whatever each month, but load up on index funds and blue chip stocks first too, then go shopping for crypto trades with the allotted portion of your spare investment change. Diversify yo shit mang.

Mentions:#VOO#BTC#ETH

Or how about you get out of Crypto aka Ponzi schemes? A stable index fund like VOO might be better for you.

Mentions:#VOO

“When did I ever say that?” You just said you could look at any investment vehicle and find idiots. What, in your mind, would make an investor in SPY or VOO an idiot? “They want to lump anyone who invests in crypto into one group” And? What’s the logical flaw in doing just that? Didn’t you just say everything they say about crypto investors, crypto investors say about themselves? “Are you just some troll or what?” Asking questions makes me a troll? Lol.

Mentions:#SPY#VOO

I'm usually just DCA on the SP500 through VOO, but at this price point all my DCA money will go into BTC/ETH at 50/50. Hopefully I'll have time to accumulate a nice bag.

Mentions:#VOO#BTC#ETH

What's your point? If you just invest in VOO which tracks the S&P 500, you'd only have lost 1.63% vs. 38%. Get pissy all you want, but the fact that BTC has shown a complete inability to decouple itself from the stock market means it's anything but an inflation hedge (in fact, far, far worse).

Mentions:#VOO#BTC

Only because VIT gives you exposure to the full US market. Mid and small cap stocks. VOO is only the top 500 companies. However, they both track very similarly so over the long term their return is almost identical. VXUS is basically like VTI, but internationally with no US exposure. It covers almost all stocks internationally in developed countries. This way I feel better hedged. Sometime US is up, other time International is up. So they sort of balances each other out. I see one as a hedge against the other.

Mentions:#VIT#VOO

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

gold sucks dude , i'm not going to tell you where to put your money but i personally don't even want to live long enough to watch my money get .01% a year in gold . Buy the ETF dip or something idk , put it in SPY or VOO or something but god gold is so ass lol

Mentions:#SPY#VOO

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/BitcoinSee Comment

Nah man, I would borrow 200k and buy 5 BTC 🚀 JK 😅 I would DCA and never go 100% 🤔 50% BTC || 50% VOO 👍

Mentions:#BTC#JK#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

Well, holding 100% cash had its own risks. Are saying that you are saving for a house, and your house fund is 100% crypto? And that you have tens of thousands in crypto? If you are up since 2017, why not diversify your house fund into stocks (VOO or VOOG), bonds (AGG or TLT or TIPS), Gold (GLD), Cash, or other assets. If you put $1,000 in each you would still have a ton of crypto. Plus, your crypto holdings are fairly well diversified. So if you diversify into a multi asset portfolio, chances are you will be up somewhere even if most or some of the market is falling. Your advisor is right though, rising interest rates are coming in a big way, and it is hard to find a return in that environment, especially on riskier assets. There’s been free money flowing out of the fed for 2 years propping up the stock market and crypto. It’s hard to say what will happen next. Your best bet is to diversify. But, I don’t know that I would go 100% cash, especially when you are so knowledgeable on how to earn yield, staking, market making, etc with your crypto. Why go 100% cash when exchanges like Gemini are making it easy enough for dummies like me to earn 6.9% on stables. I am not going 100% cash when I can get 6.9% for doing almost nothing. And, you know a lot more about crypto than me. Still, you should diversify, even just a little. Sites like M1 make it easy to do.

Mentions:#VOO#TIPS#GLD
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

Honestly, I think financial advisors are status-quo-loving hyper-average investors with tons of experience making extra diversified portfolios earning 5-10% a year. They’re job is to sound like they know what they’re doing and sell their services to ignorant people that don’t know what SPY or VOO is. They’re not going to humour your interest in high volitility assests like crypto, because they don’t care about making 100% return in a year. They just want their safe, consistent 8% that the market has provided for decades so they keep their steady, boring job.

Mentions:#SPY#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

They don’t care. Vanguard is the oldest of old school. Index funds, bonds, and slow growth over time. If you’re smart, you’ll have most of your net worth in Vanguard funds, even if you also had a lot of crypto. Having VTI or VOO plus crypto makes for a great pairing.

Mentions:#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

I'd argue VT/VTI/SPY/VOO are little to no risk if your investment timeline is 10+ years.

Mentions:#SPY#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

i have a VOO , Mutual fund , tech heavy stock index and own a few rental properties . Getting absolutely fucking rolled mate .

Mentions:#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

absolutely , if i'm not seeing 2k+ a month it's negligible i could get better return on VOO

Mentions:#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

What did you expect? Crypto is about as high risk of an investment as an individual can make. You could have bought VOO a year ago and be up a reasonable 7% even after a shitty Q1.

Mentions:#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ttir1a/monthly_skeptics_discussion_april_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Pro-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds.

r/BitcoinSee Comment

I have a decent amount of cash and I think I am going to be putting money in VOO ETF as a safer investment and also looking at building some apartments on our two acres in Brazil.

Mentions:#VOO
r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

I'm 35%btc 35% eth 30% altcoins, but might move it closer to 45/45 eth/btc. I have more crypto than stocks because I've been in crypto longer. I'm roughly 40% stocks/60% crypto. After next runup in crypto I will probably move more money into stocks. Easiest way to get started is to buy into ETFs that are technology/AI focused and not pick individual stocks. ArkQ (ARK Autonomous Technology & Robotics), BOTZ, ROBT, ROBO. Admittedly some of these haven't been performing well this last year, but I am in it long term. There might be better ones, you probably want to do your research here. I am pretty confident holding google, nvidia, tesla, microsoft long term though. But most of my money is in ETFs including general market ETF like SPY/VOO. I read about AI development a lot so when I hear about new applications of transformers/neural networks from X company, I usually pick up a few shares of that company or hope that my ETFs hold at least a bit of it.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

This. Throw that shit in a Roth or buy VOO and sit on it until you’re 40. Obviously the majority of us on this sub are very pro Crypto, but there is almost no risk doing either of the above.

Mentions:#VOO
r/CryptoMarketsSee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place in the ETF Con-Arguments topic for a prior [Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to learn more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Contestants are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/t40xg3/monthly_skeptics_discussion_march_2022/).

r/CryptoMarketsSee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place for ETF Con-Arguments in a prior [r/CC Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to know more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Winners are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/t40xg3/monthly_skeptics_discussion_march_2022/).

r/CryptoMarketsSee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place for ETF Pro-Arguments in a prior [r/CC Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to know more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Winners are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial.

r/CryptoMarketsSee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place for ETF Con-Arguments in a prior [r/CC Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to know more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Winners are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/t40xg3/monthly_skeptics_discussion_march_2022/).

r/CryptoMarketsSee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place for ETF Pro-Arguments in a prior [r/CC Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to know more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Winners are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial.

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Con-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place for ETF Con-Arguments in a prior [r/CC Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many invidual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Cons: > > * ETFs have much lower returns than crypto, historically-speaking > * ETFs have management fees that typically range from 0% to 0.5%. Some actively-managed ETFs can go up to 1-2% management fees. > * You cannot directly purchase crypto using ETFs > * ETFs are a boring investments that are no longer technologically innovative. It doesn't make for an exciting conversation. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Cons: > > * There is currently no direct investment in crypto in the US. (Canada has 4 crypto ETFs). Instead, you can buy ETFs in blockchain or mining companies, crypto future ETFs, and crypto trusts. > * Cipherpunks might not like that ETFs are centralized securities controlled by traditional financial organizations > * For Crypto future ETFs still don't exist yet, and we're still [waiting for SEC approval](https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/08/05/invesco-files-with-sec-for-bitcoin-strategy-etf/). > * Many of the ETFs that invest in DLT/Blockchain technology companies have a small market cap. The biggest 4 are: BLOK (1.2 B), BLCN (290 M), LEGR (120 M), BITQ (77 M). > * Most of these ETFs that invest in companies have doubled in price in 2-3 years, which is nowhere near the 1000% plus gains from crypto. > * Bitcoin and Ethereum Trusts (Grayscale Ethereum Trust, Grayscale Bitcoin Trust) are Trusts based in Canada, so US investors would need to buy them on over the counter markets. They're an indirect investment in the sense that you're holding a trust, that holds cryptocoins. There are inefficiencies and rebalancing, so you pay a premium for the coins. There's also a high management fee of 2%. > * If you don't want the hassle securing your own coins, why would you want to use an inefficient Grayscale trust with 2% fees and a premium when you can buy crypto on other traditional centralized institutions like PayPal and Robinhood for 1/4 of the fees of Coinbase (non-Pro)? > * You don't get staking or voting rights. > * Most smaller altcoins will never be supported in the future. If you're really interested in a single cryptocoin, an ETF is not the way to invest in that specific coin. > * It's almost certain that no privacy coins will ever be supported > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing ***** Would you like to know more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoqsv/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_conarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Winners are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial. Since this is a con-argument, what could be a better time to promote the Skeptics Discussion thread? You can find the latest thread [here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/t40xg3/monthly_skeptics_discussion_march_2022/).

r/CryptoCurrencySee Comment

#ETF Pro-Arguments Below is an argument written by Maleficent_Plankton which won 1st place for ETF Pro-Arguments in a prior [r/CC Cointest](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) round. > This is topic is a bit vague because it doesn't specify whether we're discussing ETFs in general, or crypto ETFs. So I'm dividing my response in 2 parts. These responses are US-based. > > --------------- > > **ETFs in General**: > > ETFs are bundled funds of many individual stocks that can be traded as if they were a single stock. There are many different types of ETFs, and they can be active (e.g ARKK, MOON) or passive (e.g. VTI, SPY, VOO). Index ETFs follow index markets and are a simple way for basic investors to buy the equivalent of a bucket of large numbers of stocks without having the complexity of managing each one separately. > > Pros: > > * Regulated by the SEC. Very low risk of being shut down by regulation > * Very easy to trade on stock trading platforms > * Allows you to diversify by investing in a bucket of stocks > * High security. Almost no risk of getting hacked, rugpulled, or scammed, etc. > * Low risk of account or balance loss due to user error. Customer support systems exist to recover from user mistakes. > * Very low volatility compared to crypto investments > * There is a huge variety of different ETFs (market index, sector, leveraged, inverse, active/specialty, exotic) > * Index ETFs follow market indexes and typically have very low management fees. Typically provides a 7-9% annual total return. > * Exotic and foreign market ETFs allow you to easily trade buckets representing assets that you typically would not have direct access to. > * Most exchanges do not charge transaction fees for trading ETFs. > * Market cap in the $10s of Trillions > > The biggest pros compared to crypto are that ETFs are low risk, low volatility, secure, and will allow you to sleep peacefully at night. > > --------------- > > **Crypto ETFs** > > There are 3 main categories of crypto ETFs and derivatives: > > * ETFs that invest in DLT/blockchain or mining companies > * Crypto future ETFs > * Crypto trusts, which aren't ETFs but behave similarly > > Pros: > > * The main pros for crypto ETFs are the same as for ETFs in general. They are regulated by the SEC and have low risk of being shut down by regulation. You don't have to worry about storing your own coins or not being able to recover your account. > * With ETFs, you can invest in blockchain companies and mining companies, allowing you more diversification of of your crypto investments. > * ETFs make it easier to invest indirectly in crypto within traditional tax-advantaged and retirement accounts. > * Fees to buy/sell crypto directly can be very expensive. Coinbase (non-Pro) and Gemini (non-ActiveTrader) often charge 1-3% fees for crypto purchases. ETFs don't have trading fees. > * ETF trades are settled near-instantaneously compared to crypto-settlement, which can be as slow as 30 seconds to 30 minutes. For withdrawals, ETFs use ACH, which takes 3-business days while centralized crypto exchanges like Coinbase, Binance, Gemini, take a much longer 5-10 days. FTX US even has a super-long 15-day fiat withdrawal period.^1 > * While they don't yet exist, there could be crypto ETFs in the future that allow you to hold a variety of different coins at once in a single ETFs. This would allow you to diversify. It would also save greatly on fees since the ETF gets benefits from economies of scale. > * Less hassle with taxes. It's so much easier to fill in 1099B and 1099-DIV for traditional investment accounts. > * It's much easier to set up beneficiaries for your crypto in traditional investment accounts. > > **Crypto Indexes**: > > * There are also crypto indexes (e.g. Crypto20, DeFi Pulse Index), which are DeFi derivatives similar to stock ETFs > * None of these are as efficient as holding onto their underlying assets due to administration and network fees from periodic rebalancing, but they do make it much easier to hold a basket of cryptocurrencies without buying each of them individually. > > --------------- > > Footnotes: > > 1. CEXes withdrawal time is usually based on when you deposited the fiat on a FIFO basis, so it can be shorter than the usual 5-10 days. ***** Would you like to know more? [Click here](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/pfoq7s/rcc_cointest_general_concepts_etf_proarguments/) to be taken to the original topic-thread or you can scan through the [Cointest archive](/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_archive#wiki_ETF) to find arguments on this topic in other rounds. You're invited to participate in this contest. Winners are awarded moon prizes if they win. The moon prize allocations are 300 moons for 1st place, 150 moons for 2nd place, and 75 moons for 3rd place. Winners are also assigned special trophy flair which will be visible in r/CryptoCurrency and r/CointestOfficial.