Reddit Posts
Mentions
Nice! if you invested in PACS a year ago, you'd be -5%!
PACS out here carrying my portfolio into the green for the day nearly singlehandedly
PACS up 23% premarket, looks like they confirmed they're filing their earnings on the 19th and will make the deadline.
Time for PACS to take off
Exceedingly rare, but I can confirm. Both PACS and Ensign have at least one building each that pulls in $1MM+ in EBIT. One in CA, one in AZ.
PACS ripping second day in a row
PACS green today, known safe haven stock
That’s why I’m buying PACS
Well they sort of did in their latest 8-K on September 11th. "“We have been fully cooperating with the independent Audit Committee’s ongoing independent investigation and working diligently to restate our prior financial statements and become current with our financial reporting obligations, **which we intend to do within the NYSE timeline**,” said Jason Murray, PACS’s Chief Executive Officer. “At the same time, we have been executing on our business objectives and delivering on our focused growth strategy." I just don't see them missing this deadline now. Seems like business has been running unphased and doing great this whole time. No announcement (thus far) of any kind of criminal or fraud related investigation from the Government either, which I am guessing we would've already heard of at this point if that was possible. I don't think this company would be able to continue to operate if they don't report. First off, they already have to complete this audit regardless of stock market or not, as the lenders are awaiting these results too.
You don't have to believe me. I've literally seen these buildings monthly net income. Struggling SNF's tend to be like 0-50K per month. Healthy SNF's are like 100-350K per month depending on bed size. These two comprise the bulk of SNF's but then there are outliers that make 500-1,000K/month. Typically they have some form of sub-acute with a large amount of skilled census. Medicare rates in CA and possibly AZ are like $900-1200/PPD. These monthly net income numbers also include Part B revenue from therapy so don't forget that. Ensign changed the game with Part B in house and PACS followed suit.
Let's break down this AI generated slop article that you didn't even bother actually linking or saying anything about. First, it's no secret that CFO resigned. During this investigation, it was found that he accepted high-value items from companies that do business with PACS. Company asked him to resign, and he complied. They have one of the two founders, Mark H, as the interm CFO in the meantime. Note that Mark was previously the CFO from like 2013-2024, when Derick took over. The stock took a hit from this news, and has since recovered. Let's face it, the CFO probably had to go regardless, given that everything happened under his watch here. Secondly, that article is trying to make estimates and stock price claims based off incorrect or very old values, remember... they have not had a formal earnings since Q2 2024. It's saying fair value of this stock is $2.44 ... book value of this stock is literally like $3.75, and that's based off stale financials which have obviously grown given the acquisitions, # of beds increasing, all operational metrics provided in the latest 8-K, record revenue, etc... The article doesn't even mention any of this information, specifically the ongoing audit/investigation being the reason for the significant drop in share price. Nothing about the latest 8-K and the provided operational metrics. Literally just "CFO resigned bad, stock down 65% this year, incorrect numbers provided to model say stock worth $2" and nothing more.
"PACS Group (NYSE:PACS): Assessing Valuation in Light of CFO Resignation and Securities Fraud Probe" 🤔
The company, which invests in post-acute health-care facilities, said Thursday that the exchange had agreed to let its stock keep trading until Nov. 19 while it works on reissuing financial statements for the first and second quarters of 2024. PACS said in June that it overstated revenue for those periods and that its prior financial statements shouldn't be relied upon. Why should I invest in this company? They don’t even believe their own numbers
I suggest adjusting this reminder to Nov 19th. That is the final date for PACS to file all delinquent financials. Very possible nothing happens by November 1st. Q3 2025 financials are due Nov 14th as well.
You can't see this? |Metric|PACS Group|The Ensign Group| |:-|:-|:-| || |**Market Cap**|$2.13 billion|$9.97 billion| |**SNF Beds**|32,208|\~35,427| |**Revenue (Q2 2025)**|$981.8 million|$1.04 billion| |**Revenue Growth YoY**|26.8%|16.6%| |**Adj. EBITDA Margin**|\~10% (estimated)|11.2%| |**P/E Ratio (Approx.)**|10-15x|\~30x|
Been a while I haven't given an update to this thread giving how air tight PACS is. If you follow the PACS leadership on LinkedIn you might have seen this: "*What an incredible season of momentum for PACS Group.* *Just weeks after announcing that PACS expects to report record revenue for the first half of 2025—driven by industry-leading occupancy, a growing portfolio of high-quality facilities, and strengthened compliance programs—we gathered in Chicago for our 2025 Leadership Summit.* *We hosted nearly 400 PACS employees and close to 300 guests—about 700 people in total. The energy was unmatched. Together, we celebrated:* *• A culture of high-integrity leadership and extreme accountability* *• Our commitment to local decision making by high functioning teams.* *• A renewed focus on compliance as confidence—guidelines and guardrails that allow us to innovate and thrive* *• Stories of remarkable facility-level success, shared directly by administrators leading the way in their communities* *It was clear in Chicago: PACS is not only performing at record levels—it is a place where leaders feel inspired, trusted, and empowered to do their best work.* *I’m grateful to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with so many talented colleagues who are driving change in post-acute care. The road ahead is bright, and we’re just getting started.* *#Leadership #HealthcareIsLocal #PACS*" do i believe PACS will file? yes. am i sure everything they will file is positive? no. is it worth the bet? yes
I have covered PACS in the past, i would encourage you to jump in. You can check out my DD: [https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1mtzwaj/should\_short\_reports\_be\_trusted\_why\_i\_still/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1mtzwaj/should_short_reports_be_trusted_why_i_still/) or u/simple-software3 DD
lowk just sold now at 14.17, i'll take the profit. dumped everything from PACS into NXXT
New positions: PACS and CNC to celebrate my wife’s acceptance to the nursing program. Holding and swing trading NBIS still. Sold UNH and Warner Bros (new peacemaker episode was great tho). Holding lots of cash across non degenerate accounts. Forgot in post
PATH and PACS shall bring me home
Market cap is $1.8B for PACS vs $9.5B for ENSG if that helps you compare their valuation fairly...
I’m not trying to compare them purely on share price. They are similarly sized for SNFs and both in the top 3 in the nation. Check beds and occupancy numbers between the two which I’ve linked. ENSG is slightly bigger and has been around longer. PACS should not be a $12 stock is what I was trying to say.
ENSG and PACS seem to be doing just fine and have this down to a science where they take these failing homes that are hemorrhaging money (as you mention) and turn them around into money printers. Just look at their occupancy numbers. Way higher than industry average. The concern about government Medicaid/medicare cuts is very fair and valid. That’s a larger political discussion in my opinion. But something to monitor and be aware of if you invest in this stock. With that said though, even if cuts came tomorrow, this stock is incredibly undervalued still. This should be a $30 stock, at a minimum.
Just curious… what aspect of the numbers side did you work on and in which state? Truth is PACS and Ensign’s been doing pretty well at the facility level. And did you not take into account their occupancy rates? Additionally, you’re generalizing all nursing homes, this post is concerning the stock of PACS and Ensign’s. PACS added 90 buildings in the last year! From the numbers side, sounds like they are doing too bad huh? Why grow operations if you have no cash to spare? lol their cash equivalents doubled and they are experience growth. Get on the train, this stock is a no brainer.
Would’ve been really hard for a day trader to resist taking profit as it moved from 7.50 to 12, no? Especially given that PACS trades sideways and down. Up until now. Anyone else is either not touching it, or holding until November 19th.
This is what makes it unique! Don’t think many companies miss a years worth of filings and stay listed this long. NYSE would’ve delisted them 6 months in if they didn’t see something behind closed doors from PACS. Trust.
Coming from the industry, PACS is greatly undervalued at this point. Facilities are making 500K-$1M per MONTH and that hasn't changed even post the defunct Hindenburg report. Kathy Lauer is a huge pick up from a legal and compliance side. If you're looking for bull run, this has good markings. No one ever made money by not taking a risk, this is your chance! I'm 6K shares in!
I think FY 2023 net income was around $150M. Q2 FY2024 was $35M-$40M range. Net margin was 5% or so, comparable to $ENSG. Indeed, PACS appears to be acquiring aggressively and taking on a lot more debt which can be a risk. Liabilities around $5B from a bit of searching. All natural given the aggressive growth strategy. Interim CFO said they will be reporting record revenue when they are compliant. I believe I saw folks estimating this to be somewhere around $4.5B I would say for anyone hesitant, to open a small share position or maybe a few 2027 LEAPS, give them a chance to become compliant by November, I think anything below IPO price is a free discount.
Unfortunately it's hard to say that without the true numbers since Q3 2024. Let's look at the last known EPS and share price (\~$43) right before the right hit. PACS was trading at a fair market multiple in line with Ensign and the broader SNF sector. Based strictly on EPS and comps, it was reasonable. PACS was not out
Yes, but he compared other metrics like beds/etc. I assumed as well he was a complete regard that thinks "hurrr durr. $5 cheap company. $100 per share expensive company". EPS is a bit hard to estimate with all those missed SEC filings. Last EPS was -0.07, though for $PACS.
As you mentioned in another post, timing is what matters. I personally believe it's going to take YEARS before this trickles and impacts to large players (PACS is a large player, it is top 3 in size easily). Their bread-and-butter, with a proven track record, is acquiring bleeding facilities that are losing money and turning them around into money making machines. This is great for pacs in the near term, sucking up these small players and turning them around because they have the playbook down to a science and the resources to do so. Even just recently: [https://www.mcknights.com/news/skilled-nursing-owner-buckeye-chai-files-for-bankruptcy-months-after-selling-facilities-to-pacs/](https://www.mcknights.com/news/skilled-nursing-owner-buckeye-chai-files-for-bankruptcy-months-after-selling-facilities-to-pacs/) Please don't compare assisted living to skilled nursing. Come on. Am I worried about CMS and cuts to midcare/medicaid due to the current administration? Yes. In any case they are still completely undervalued at the current estimated financials and growth. Could some of this impact share price and gains in the very long term (years+), sure, but they are still printing money at this point and will continue to do so right now. I just don't think you can realistically open a bearish long position right now.
Sounds like PACS could be a nice play then. Definitely not short term puts
u/Simple-Software3 is the man, a firm PACS believer. Everything he mentioned is spot on, in fact if you had bought in at the time of my updated DD your options would be worth 30% more.
by design, my PACS dd got mentioned in Yahoo Finance. didn’t want the flood of people to see my gooning habits if you catch my drift. good point though, will whitelist wsb though
just want to add into it: i am long PACS and this hasn’t changed as of now
BREAKING NEWS: PACS Group, Inc. announced the resignation of CFO Derick Apt due to policy violations, resulting in a separation agreement and waiver of a non-compete clause. Mark Hancock, previously CFO, is appointed as the interim CFO. PACS Group, Inc. PACS is headquartered in Farmington, UT. Source: The 8-M
Update on someone who has some kind of connection to PACS, when asked why PJ left: *The resignation was a dignified way of letting him go. If you can read between the lines. The new compliance officer is doing her job . The 16k a month is basically a severance but stated as a consulting fee. End of story .*
UPDATE and EDIT of the DD: Realized I made a mistake on the ACTUAL deadline date. **PACS is given until September 2, 2025, to submit the overdue Q3 2024 10-Q to regain compliance** with listing standards. **But it CAN EXTEND UNTIL NOVEMBER 19th AT MOST**
Question, say it gets delisted, I get that it will hit bottom hard going into Nov 19 without reporting announments. But on Nov 20th it will be at OTC. Now this is a solidly growing company with good financials (as far we know). I remember Luckin Coffee, I made few Ks quickly after they went OTC. And that is a Chinese company. What are the worst case scenarios going OTC for $PACS?
The issue with them (according to Hindenburg) is that PACS abused them heavily to pump up their numbers to make their IPO look attractive. With those waivers gone, according to them PACS is an unprofitable roll up of distressed SNFs. Just a bunch of exaggerations and misinformation from Hindenburg.
PACS is incredibly undervalued no matter which way you spin it, as long as they stay listed I don’t think you can lose out on this. Doesn’t look Unfortunately wsb, being filled with actual regards, only understand tech stocks and can’t read DDs properly.
I’m in! This looks juicy as someone that seen how SMCI went. If it wasn’t due to macroeconomics SMCI would’ve been 100+ after they filed. I was a very early investor in PACS I think this has potential to absolutely soar forgot all about this stock picking up a few hundred long calls today market open. Will also hedge 25% in the event they don’t file. Don’t believe there is any possibility this stock stays flat. Feels like it’s either dropping to oblivion or will be all time highs by march next year.
September 2nd is a deadline by the NYSE. The true 12-month maximum cure period for all delinquent earnings is November 19th 2025 then the delisting will begin. PACS has mentioned they intend to file the missing earnings by September 2nd. Although it appears they can miss it, not sure if they have to show NYSE some kind of progress or something
It's hard to read the 8-k and assume everything is going to be cleared and reported in time. PJ resigning is not a good sign. Feels like PACS doesn't have control of the room at the moment, and that outside counsel and/or auditors are calling the shots. I'd assume they'll do everything they can do to file timely. But from a non-professional, outside perspective, it doesn't look like they'll make it in time. It also feels like PJ won't be the last major player to exit. But that's pure speculation.
Net Patient Revenue can be, and often is, manipulated with administrative pressure. It's a decent proxy for winning market share, but it's not an end-all, be-all. NPR is essentially driven by three players in the facility - marketer (bringing patients in), MDS Nurse (coding for reimbursement) and administrator (driving processes). All three of those parties in PACS facilities are in some amount of hot water in the current investigations, so it might be fair to expect that metric to come down.
What are your thoughts on the 8-K filed by PACS today? Technical defaults, forbearance, PJ departing
So CEOs can't invest in foreign companies, but it's ok for Congress members and Senators to get monetary support in the way of PACS with dark money often from foreign interests, not to mention AIPAC?
Hi all, this is my first posting to Reddit (or any site for that matter). But learned quite a bit about $PACS here. Lot of insightful comments. Helpful. But I did not see anyone talk about NPR here. NPR (Net Patient Revenue)- I found this looking around ( I am bigly invested in $PACS, bought several times starting around $14 thru $11) . Please see this link, it shows PACS group total Medicare and Medicare NPR is larger than ENSIGN for 2024. $4.2B VS. $4.02B, PACS is largest revenue getter from government and ENSIGN is the second. I understand that PACS may have to take out at least $65 (may be some more for q3 and Q4) - still PACS NPR may stay larger than ensign for year 2024. Please let us know if anyone see significance to this. Btw, for 2023 NPR, ENSIGN was way ahead of PACS. $3.5B vs. $2.6B. Ensign was highest and PACS was third. Here is the link: https://www.definitivehc.com/blog/top-10-largest-skilled-nursing-facilities
Yeah sorry I did say "used to" but my hospital, last I worked there, still used them for their night reading when I left. But diving into the CEO now and their efforts it seems to have focused more on mental health app support. They just seem established enough to be leading the charge on AI assisted software for hospital accuracy in readings. Market for online visits with docs for anything like mental health or other issues is saturated enough. I can use Wallgreens, cvs or even Amazon for that at super low costs. Software licensing with AI could easily integrate into their model as they are contracted with a lot of hospitals already, even tapped in to their PACS system already. And, it's a future pipeline that will develop and last for ages.
It's not about making quick cash at all, this is a long-term hold of an incredibly undervalued company due to this hindenburg report/audit/whatever situation.... This is how the industry operates. ENSG does the same stuff as PACS. Unfortunately, these are businesses that need to make money at the end of the day...and yes they are all pushing that fine line of what to bill for and what not to bill for. Not excusing PACS in any way just trying to say this is how all these PACS-type businesses operate. It is a shame.
I would never buy PACS stock, shady company.
Why would any of their facilities close down? Not all of a buildings revenue comes from Medicaid. An aging population increases every year. Will they be as profitable as they currently are? Maybe, maybe not. How are you tracking PACS building growth? They are tight-lipped during this audit and the last reported number to my understanding is around 300-315. As Immediate-Marketing3 said, their sole issue right now is completing this audit and releasing all of their missed earnings. A bit ridiculous it has taken this long.
It seems like the amount of building is growing. PLUS, PACS not releasing earnings is very concerning... hrm
I’m sure the BBB will affect PACS and Ensign but I thought the Hindenburg article and the fact PACS has not released earnings was their biggest concern. I have not kept up enough to even know what specifically is in the BBB. Also, did they get up to 500 facilities? I thought they were at 350.
I’m very open to talking about this! I’m very bullish on PACS although I’m not the most knowledgeable when it comes to stocks. I need one on one coaching/mentorship. This would be a great opportunity for me to learn more, esp given the complexity of them not releasing their quarterly earnings in the last year.
I have to imagine that this ends soon and they release everything. Remember their bread and butter is acquiring bad buildings and turning them around. This investigation appears to have put a pause on that. I've been following Yahoo Finance for the PACS stock every day which is where the only discussion I see happening in the community section for the stock. One day out of nowhere someone posted that PACS has been trying to finalize some acquisitions in Vegas. Was a very oddly specific post.
I’m still holding. I’ve been in the industry a few years and have worked very closely with PACS and Ensign guys. But I keep going back back-and-forth. The only risk I see is them getting delisted. But as long as they don’t get delisted, I think it’s just a matter of time before they follow the same trajectory as ensign as far as stock price.
It’s a good question. Might be worth taking off the thread. I’ve been following their stock since before the drop and have been doubling down. I need more education on investing but my outlook is promising. The biggest thing to consider about success in LTC is census. PACS does this very well. I worked in 3 states and only one of them seemed to do alright, the other two states were meh on census growth. Ensign gets very cheap buildings to keep their rent low. PACS is more aggressive in their acquisition strategy. With the corrections to their Part B, it’ll be interesting to see how things play out. ENSG is very well run from the whole company perspective. They take extremely calculated risk, so they move slower. With PACS, their aggressiveness could end up hurting them if their census growth falters below what it is now.
Nice to hear this ENSG perspective. Wasn't ever sure of how they did things, just aware of PACS style. Very interesting for sure. Share price for them is $150+ so I am super stoked about what PACS can do if they can clear this fully. What are your thoughts on what happens short term and long term as far as price and stock? I am thinking it quickly reaches around IPO price again. And then hopefully they finish and release audit results and missed earnings but hoping that doesn't take until September.
Definitely. Their overall census capacity is much better than Ensign too. Ensign’s model only works if they pull off the financial levers and allow culture to grow census. PACS works better as most admins are straight out of college and they provide more direct mentorship. Leaders in Ensign say to a problem, “What do YOU need to do about that?” and seems like PACS leaders say to a problem, “Here’s what you should do based on my experience.” Why let the 20 year olds struggle by figuring things out on their own when leaders already know how they would impact the business? Plus, Ensign DON’s have too much influence in running things around their facility. Their jobs are more secure than at PACS facilities and they know it. Ensign accountability sucks unless you have a well respected leader that everyone follows. Who wants to give full trust and respect to a 20 year old graduate?
I’m in too. Used to work at Ensign but I like PACS model better. I have a buddy making $1M/mo in Vegas and another making 400k/mo in California. Crazy what their output is, Ensign had a lot of buildings struggling.
Anyone still in a PACS Group? Mines up 20% on yesterdays news
The deadline for PACS Group to file the overdue Form 10-Q and avoid potential delisting is May 19, 2025.
The deadline for PACS Group to file the overdue Form 10-Q and avoid potential delisting is May 19, 2025.
My vote would be 1971, when federal election campaign act was passed. It was an attempt to curb back room corporate campaign contributions (Tillman act made corporate donations illegal in 1907), but it created PACS and that’s when corporate money started its takeover in Washington. Prior to that, organized labor (unions) were the primary source of funding for political candidates.
Ever go on vacation to like a beach resort? Far enough away from town that you don't want to catch a cab or whatever to go eat so you just stay and eat at the resort? You look over the menu and the cheapest pasta dish is like $42... That's America right now. We are paying resort prices for literally everything. We are being nickel and dimed to literal death. Only instead of a resort owner getting the excess, it goes to corps who then donate it to PACS which buy politicians keeping this system growing. It's reaching a breaking point, I feel. We shall see, I guess.
Update : From a reliable source . PACS will not be releasing Q3 earnings and will be delisted. They will lose all civil suits and be fined heavily as well as possible criminal charges . Good Luck
Amen! I work for now PACS, the company I used to work for grape holdings Sagecreek post acute got bought out a couple years back and good lord PACS lies about staffing ratios, they make us as nurses not send patients out to the hospital in order to decrease RTAs, they put these nurse apprentices in training on the floor and unsupervised force/allow them to pass medications to 25 plus patients without a nursing license. INSANE!! I talk too much and speak my mind way way too much thus I’m basically outed at this point; I’m viewed as a problem basically. As far as Medicare fraud goes 100% absolutely the DONs and Administrators get bonuses heavily and everything the lawsuit and Hindenburg accuses PACS of is accurate. For example they force the nurse to sign off on the EMAR a comatose patient used the incentive spirometer three times in our 12 hour shift. Many nurses are so busy they just click yes patient used incentive spirometer however, it never occurred. It’s completely impractical but yet Medicare pays higher reimbursements for certain skilled needs, diagnosis, ect… I see a ton of respiratory Medicare fraud! That’s something that should be looked into. Not just the Medicare waivers ect.. PACS is committing Medicare fraud as I speak but no one does shit about it. They hide so much and lie excessively. They force patients who are seemingly better to stay for those 20 days. Funny, I read in that Hindenburg article that many PACS administrators are nieve under educated for their position and are simply “yes men”. One example In the article said that the administrators that PACS hire and pump out have very little if any history in the field, one example Said that the PACS administrators were previously Solar Panel salespeople and boy that is the truth! Travis Jones look up his LinkedIn profile…. Previous solar panel salesman, now making 6 figures with fat bonus’s and massive compensation packages for keeping very sick patients out of the hospital and in the care of the facility. Imagine being a nurse, your trained from the start to do what’s right…. I’m a nurse practitioner now but they told Us all the time to first notify the DON if you had to send a patient to the hospital for an emergency situation. Shame! I never listened to Mo aka Maurice DON at Sagecreek in Las Vegas. Never listened to him because my license depended on it not his. Anyway screw PACS !!
I mean hey, they were some of the biggest lobbyists and donors to Trump and Republican PACS, so they're just reaping what they sowed. A "Leopard eating my face" moment.
Anyone know if PACS has earnings next week?
Take this 3M and put it in PACS
Is $PACS actually today? Could be a good buy if it is, though I can't find anything to confirm.
No worries I went all in PACS 😂
open the casino, I wanna see my PACS calls
These guys, PACS admin, from top to bottom are pretty dang slimy. How do I know? I round (see patients) at their facilities. It’s not just the covid era shenanigans, which were outrageous and a total fleece of taxpayer money, they also, in my opinion, continue to manipulate the “level of skilled needs” of patients to put it simply, to charge Medicare the highest daily rates possible. They pressure the providers to change medications (to iv preparations ie lasix or antibiotics) and give iv fluids to increase rates. How do I know? They directly asked me and I have documented text. I don’t think the investigation is over and compared to their peers how in the world can you triple revenue year over year to comparable facilities. Are the others like ensign group just so stupid they didn’t realize they could increase revenue in the same manner?? No, it’s straight fraud. I hope they are shut down and all Medicare patients go to other facilities. The admin’s need to have their bogus bonuses clawed back. Read the Hindenburg report. They truly hire naive staff (admissions, directors of nursing) who won’t question management. Compare to esng. I have no position in the company…but talking to another executive at a competing nursing home, we kicked ourselves for not shorting 6 months ago when we suspected they would get in trouble.
"The complaint alleges that, in the IPO offering documents and throughout the Class Period, PACS and additional defendants made false and misleading statements and failed to disclose that PACS engaged in schemes to: (1) submit false Medicare claims; (2) bill thousands of unnecessary respiratory and sensory integration therapies to Medicare; and (3) falsify documentation related to licensure and staffing." * "Abused a COVID-era waiver to inappropriately access Medicare benefits for thousands of patients. * Falsified patient records to inflate revenue and earnings. * Engaged in fraudulent licensing practices to circumvent regulatory oversight." Even if the accusations come up with nothing, I don't see this a x2/x3 bagger, if anything remains at the current levels its at or will be at during the time.
They didn't do it with public information. They did it through hearsay from prior administrators and PACS competitors. It states that clearly in their report. When Medicare does their audit, as they do for every company in the SNF realm, they'll like find ways to take back money as they always do.
Appreciate your inputs, I am still long for PACS. Let's hope for the best!
Hard to prove, sure. But really because it's a great company. I have friends that are nurses and therapists at a PACS building and they said they do more for their patients than any previous SNF owner. When the allegations came out the employees I know said they thought it was garbage. I did my own research and came to the same conclusion.
I did thought that the report was garbage and added to my position initially. Digging a little bit deeper it seems to me that several SNFs have been sued for similar abuse (none are public companies). I am more worried about the over billing part due to covid waiver which seems like the most likely case they can get caught with. PS: I hold a significant PACS position
Looking at couple of cases of fraud related to SNF fraud can be found even if they overcharged for services. Hence it's not only about Covid we have to worry about (I say we as I have a significant position in PACS)
Ensign also has a playbook to fix underperforming SNFs, in fact, PACS seems to be the Ensign copycat. How much differently can you manage a SNF? I can tell you this much, not enough so that the Medicare-Medicaid ratios between the top two companies in the nation are literally SWAPPED. I think PACS is a steaming pile of junk now, run by a couple CEOs a bit too enthralled with the Utah Jazz and buying private jets. Not to mention, Hindenburg has a good track record of their reports eventually bankrupting the companies they report.
They have very different management styles, PACS is hands on and Ensign is hands off.
All I know is, glad I'm on the side of Ensign, and not PACS. They even compared Ensign's covid earnings with pacs, and it just doesn't add up.
Because nothing in the report shows anything of concern. I've worked in SNFs in both East and West Coast. None of the practices are out of the norm. It just shows they increased services to their patients, and offered new services like respiratory therapy and sensory integration. This is how many LTCs are expanding to reduce readmission rates, limit fines. Using the COVID waiver to "skill-in-place" was to avoid sending too many patients to the hospital which was overloading hospitals and making more people sick. LTC residents are a highly vulnerable group and needed increased assessments which is why the billing rates were at the 3x rate. If SNFs avoided this practice they'd be putting their patients at high risk. The report said PACS was misleading due to mentioned QM rates. That not misleading, it's simply true. There are many factors that go into CMS ratings, from staffing ratios to number off falls, wounds, psychotropic use, etc. It's like a car company mentioning they have class leading fuel efficiency. Are they being misleading because they didn't mention that they DIDNT have class leading seat capacity? There is nothing misleading by mentioning your best assets, and that's what PACS did. They said administrators have limited experience and are "bros." So effing what? They don't like that administrators are young and have a fun personality? Really? This whole report screams bias and nonsense in order for the activist short sellers to make a quick buck.
So are you trying to go long or short these stocks? Like for SMCI, PACS and PLTR you are watching them…. But when would you take action?
Scooped some RUN and ENPH this morning. Both small starters. Anything else interesting? Seems Hindenberg hit a home run on PACS?
Read you loud and clear..time to yolo on Hindenburg’s recent exposé on PACS!
This is a super sad finding as it appears to be total BS from Hindenburg. I've worked in multiple SNFs and nothing about these practices are out of the norm or a "scheme". Covid-Era waivers were used for patients that experienced high-risk exposure and had underlying comorbidities. "Skilling in place" allows patients that would have otherwise been transferred back to the hospital to be treated with higher frequency and closer assessments right in the SNF to prevent sudden respiratory distress or cardiac arrest. Adding respiratory therapy and sensory integration has shown significant improvements on multiple fronts directly from CMS, including decrease in use of psychotropics and steroids, improvement in depression scales, anxiety, improvements in mobility and ADL function, etc. SNFs are also beginning to add outpatient to therapy practices to their existing patients facility structures to both provide continuous therapy to those that discharge, and also reduce readmission rates. If a shoe store that only sold shoes went out of business and was taken over by a company that also sold shoe laces, shoe cleaner, socks, and orthotics, that wouldn't be a "money making scheme." Its called good business practice offering more services to the benefit of their client. PACS, ensign, Theragen, Linx, and literally every other SNF home provider works in this fashion in order to maintain profit. These ex employees sound like they couldn't keep up with their requirements to maintain growth and decided to cry and lie instead of try harder. Yikes. This is gonna hurt the whole industry, and the patients that will no longer receive good care as companies are gonna have to scale back skilled services in fear of nonsense reports like this one.
Add PACS to the hit list 
>In one example, PACS hired a former solar panel salesman with no prior industry experience and quickly installed him as the administrator of a 132-bed, loss-making facility. He took the facility from a ~$1 million loss to a $6.8 million profit in 1 year during COVID, earning $1.6 million in his second year as an administrator— according to the facility financial reports, more than 9x the state average compensation. Dude. Why was I never offered these jobs.