WWII

pizza5001

The single-most internationally uniting event since WWII.

FastAssSister

Not in any way did you give a fact. “Bonds are a good investment” is 100% opinion. In zero 20 year periods have bonds outperformed stocks. Not even just before the Great Depression, plus WWII, and onward. Nor will they ever without a massive worldwide calamity that renders money irrelevant. So no, they are not a “good investment.” They are ballast for a portfolio for people who can’t handle volatility, which is completely fine, but not if you want to optimize performance.

Astronaut-Proof

Wait, so you’re telling me people don’t want to pay $17 for a bowl of WWII-style rationed beans and rice with a hefty ounce of chicken? That can’t be right.

Proper_Look_7507

No disagreement there but that’s the original reason it shifted to Defense. In the post WWII they realized that national security would be an always on issue not just during conflict

kaushikfi6

I am no expert on china and I hope the phrasing in my question did not imply that - I just was trying to express a sentiment I was feeling for a while and seemed somehow substantiated by pockets of news I read now and then haha I actually don't read reddit very much for news related to china; I just think hearing about how LLM models are able to be run for cheaper in China and also hearing about how funding to American universities might be at stake has maybe been making me feel a general direction that the US might not be who it was after the WWII

Scientific_Socialist

The unions shot themselves in the foot. Ever since WWII they were more concerned with protecting the national economy, kicking out communists and selling out to the bosses rather than organizing more workers or militantly defending their interests. They became instruments for capital to control the workers, which is why workers left the unions en masse. Any new movement is gonna need new unions, bc the AFL-CIO is rotten to the core.

Atlas-Scrubbed

I think it largely happened due to WWII. Britain (and the pound) were weakened by WWI and WWII, and the US was the only major economy still functioning afterwards.

SeVenMadRaBBits

*Ahem* **Just a little info:** ***The President's Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) is located in a bunker beneath the East Wing*** of the White House in Washington, D.C. This secure underground facility serves as a command center and shelter for the President and other officials during national emergencies. Location: A bunker underneath the East Wing of the White House. Function: A secure shelter and communications center for the President and other protectees during a national emergency. Purpose: To provide a safe location for the President to work and lead the country in a crisis, such as a terrorist attack or other disaster. On a seperate note: **Many Nazis did flee to Argentina** and other South American countries after WWII, with Argentina receiving the largest number of escapees. **They were aided by established "ratlines" of escape routes, by sympathetic officials like Argentine President Juan Perón**, and the Vatican. While infamous Nazis like Adolf Eichmann and Josef Mengele found refuge there, the theory that Hitler also escaped to Argentina is not supported by evidence, and most historians conclude he died in his Berlin bunker. Tldr: ***Ballroom construction above East Wing and $40 Billion dollar payment to Argentina may have ulterior motives.***

SeVenMadRaBBits

*Ahem* **Just a little info:** ***The President's Emergency Operations Center (PEOC) is located in a bunker beneath the East Wing*** of the White House in Washington, D.C. This secure underground facility serves as a command center and shelter for the President and other officials during national emergencies. Location: A bunker underneath the East Wing of the White House. Function: A secure shelter and communications center for the President and other protectees during a national emergency. Purpose: To provide a safe location for the President to work and lead the country in a crisis, such as a terrorist attack or other disaster. On a seperate note: **Many Nazis did flee to Argentina** and other South American countries after WWII, with Argentina receiving the largest number of escapees. **They were aided by established "ratlines" of escape routes, by sympathetic officials like Argentine President Juan Perón**, and the Vatican. While infamous Nazis like Adolf Eichmann and Josef Mengele found refuge there, the theory that Hitler also escaped to Argentina is not supported by evidence, and most historians conclude he died in his Berlin bunker. Tldr: ***Ballroom construction above East Wing and $40 Billion dollar payment to Argentina may have ulterior motives.***

CertifiedGhoster

Influence of US comes from their post-WWII dominant position, a time where US was an industrial powerhouse and had the technology dominance over their opponents… its not the case today anymore particularly when you decided to outsource and erode your industrial powerhouse and you let your military-industrial complex scam you with expensive limited(in quantity) toys.

Beatless7

Let's cut off their electricity and aluminum. Let's close the borders to trucks and make them wait in cars for hours. Let's stand up to facism. I'm sure my dead relatives from the WWII would agree. Let's start a world boycott of the USA.

Remarkable_Run_5801

Ask it for empirical substantiations of WWII camp death tolls. The Germans kept meticulous records in WWII; down to the number of bullets fired, where people were moved, how they died. Why do the death counts not match? Why do the camp counts show that most are still alive until the moment the Sovet Army shows up? How did the Soviets correctly anticipate "6 million" before reaching all of the camps? Why did the Red Cross and the other Allied powers never find any death camps, but the Soviets did? The Soviets were notorious for using torture to extract false confessions. The Nazis who made confessions at Nuremberg regarding the camps later stated that they were confessing under torture and "duress." How effective is torture and other "enhanced interrogation" at producing legitimate information? ChatGPT will not give you any legitimate answers. In fact, it will warn you that it's unable to do so. It will presuppose a specific narrative; it **will dissect any claim that doesn't involve race, sex, gender, or WWII.**

SandMan3914

It's mostly a metaphor now, so don't take literally. But after WWII at lot of guard dogs were going to be put down because top brass didn't think they could be integrated, and many were but eventually a lot of soldiers were able to show they could be integrated back into society

Due_Lengthiness8014

Yes, demand for USD denominated debt (treasuries) are simply a byproduct of our reserve currency status. But it has more to do with USD being the main currency for international trade (after WWII) and simultaneously and quite intentionally running large trade deficits with the rest of the world. Other countries sell us goods and services, we net import more than we sell there by spewing dollars across the global financial system. These dollars are converted internally to their own fiat currencies within their own economies with some being "in reserve" for various purposes--more international trade, currency stabilization etc. Since these countries want to generate yield with their reserve dollars they almost immediately convert reserve dollars into U.S. treasuries there by generating interest these dollars flow back into the U.S. economy. This mechanism is pretty much the same for all countries the U.S. trades with not just Europe.

Ok-Amphibian3164

Let's hope lmfao. Maybe he can be useful for atleast one thing before they head undeground imto the emergency operations center. 😅😅 Fyi: for anyone who.doesnt know. They are demolishing the whole East wing now. The Bunker FDR built during WWII is under there. The ballroom is a distraction (imo)

AICHEngineer

WWII, US stock market was negative until it became pretty clear the tide had turned in the war in 1943 and the market started rising. Vietnam war contributed heavily to US inflation that sprung in the 1970s, one of the costliest wars that drove us to print more money until we got called on our bluff and had to go off the gold standard. The 1970s era of negative real returns in the stock market a result of numerous costly wastes of money and peace like vietnam, korea, etc. Iraq war lines up perfectly with the lost decade. Ukraine war didnt make stocks go up, it didnt help any stocks other than defense stocks. It contributed to global inflation. War helps industry, which is decent for the real economy, but its not bullish for stocks. It disrupts trade, reduces future cashflow expectations for companies that do international business, it drives isolationist rhetoric, it kills people who otherwise would contribute to the economy, it devastates potentially productive land, bad bad bad

ChollyWheels

\> iPhone 17 as it did with a 10 They're different products so your example is not a good one -- of course the prices are different \>  It’s a ridiculous oversimplification to say that dollars are basically just energy. So we just disagree. Sure in any particular situation you can point to a zillion reasons (shortages of raw materials, change in labor costs, tarifs) but the bottom line does not change. **The more energy per capita, the richer a society is, period. There is no substitute**. It is the underlying factor to all the others. If you disagree please identify an energy poor society that materially better off than an energy rich one. Some countries (most notably Japan) are not naturally resource rich, but they make up for it by acquiring it, so their energy per capita is high (and a lot more fairly distributed than in the US). But it's a perpetual problem for them, and explains a lot of their behavior leading to WWII.

Worshipme988

Americans haven’t updated their ideals about other cultures and still operating on the immediate post-WWII narratives regardless of the heaps of propaganda

JoGoBurn

How so? I mean he was put into a American concentration camp during WWII.

Loewenkompass

My logic is that investing in the reconstruction of a country after war, the profit margins are normally really high. Check out Germany after WWII. The difference between 1945 and 1955 could not be bigger. The country grew intensively. If I can get in this market right now, secured by guarantees, I‘m pretty sure it‘s a good investment.

CitizenLohaRune

Chatgpt is easy: There are three main categories to consider: 1. Freezing or seizing assets (e.g., central bank reserves, state-owned company funds, or oligarch assets). 2. Suspending aid or military assistance already promised. 3. Blocking trade payments or access to U.S. financial systems through sanctions. If we focus on frozen assets or withheld funds controlled by the U.S. government — not private trade restrictions — then there are roughly a few dozen major cases since 1917. Here’s a condensed historical outline: --- 🇩🇪 World War I (1917) U.S. used the Trading with the Enemy Act (TWEA) to seize German and Austro-Hungarian assets, valued at over $500 million (1917 dollars). Property was held by the Alien Property Custodian until after the war. --- 🇯🇵 and 🇩🇪 World War II (1941–45) Again under TWEA, U.S. froze Axis powers’ assets in the U.S. Later expanded to occupied countries. Japanese government and company assets in the U.S. were confiscated outright. --- 🇨🇳 People’s Republic of China (1949–1972) After Mao’s victory, the U.S. froze Chinese central bank assets and those of Chinese firms in the U.S. Released only after diplomatic normalization in the 1970s. --- 🇨🇺 Cuba (1960–present) Following the Cuban Revolution and nationalization of U.S. businesses, the U.S. froze all Cuban government assets in the U.S. (≈ $500 million at the time). Still in effect under the Cuban Assets Control Regulations. --- 🇮🇷 Iran (1979–present) During the hostage crisis, the U.S. froze $12 billion in Iranian assets. Some were returned under the 1981 Algiers Accords, but billions remain restricted. --- 🇮🇶 Iraq (1990–2003) After Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait, the U.S. froze about $1.3 billion in Iraqi assets. Portions were later used to compensate victims and rebuild post-2003. --- 🇷🇸 Yugoslavia/Serbia (1992–2000) During Balkan wars, U.S. froze Serbian and Montenegrin assets linked to the Milošević regime. --- 🇱🇾 Libya (1986–2011) Assets frozen over terrorism concerns (Lockerbie bombing). Later partially released after Gaddafi renounced WMDs. Re-frozen in 2011 during the civil war. --- 🇳🇰 North Korea (various since 1950s) Repeated freezing of assets and blocking of banking access, notably Banco Delta Asia (2005) and later Kim family and state trading company funds. --- 🇻🇪 Venezuela (2019–present) U.S. recognized Juan Guaidó instead of Nicolás Maduro and froze Venezuelan central bank and PDVSA oil revenues under U.S. control. --- 🇷🇺 Russia (2014–present, expanded 2022) After Crimea (2014) and full invasion of Ukraine (2022), U.S. and allies froze about $300 billion in Russian central-bank reserves. Largest asset freeze in modern history. --- Smaller or shorter examples Afghanistan (2021–present) – U.S. froze $7 billion of Afghan central bank reserves after Taliban takeover. Sudan, Syria, Myanmar, Belarus – targeted freezes and blocked assets during conflicts or human-rights crises. South Africa (apartheid era) – limited sanctions and loan restrictions, though not full asset seizure. --- Summary Table (approximate count) Century Distinct U.S. Actions Withholding Foreign Funds Examples 20th ~12 major cases WWI, WWII, China, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia, etc. 21st ~8 major cases Afghanistan, Venezuela, Russia, North Korea, Myanmar, etc. So, roughly 20 times the U.S. has formally frozen or withheld another nation’s money in wartime or sanction contexts.

FreudianPaySlip

I do think gold to $6K is not far off. US decline as the hegemony of post WWII and Cold War is past its peak, Dalio has talked abt this for some time. Right now the world is finally waking up to it. As in all previous cycles of superpowers, the incumbent superpower’s currency will be devalued. The difference now is that the new superpower has a currency that’s being controlled by, leaving gold as one of the few alternatives left

BanditoBoom

Look….we can go back in time over and over and over until we are blue in the face…pointing out flaws here and flaws there and who’s great great great great ancestors are to blame for today’s issues. Or we can be adults, realize that the modern world is different…and at some point we have to draw the line in the sand and say “hey…from this point forward we are going to stop blaming the past and be accountable” For THIS discussion I think the point where we completely removed the gold standard is an okay place to start. I also think limiting our debate to things that happened during g the free trade era is another option. But to pull this “what-about-ism” back to WWII is absurd.

jrex035

Eh that's not really true at all. You can have a capitalist system with government regulations and interference, that describes literally every capitalist country that's ever existed. A truly "free" market doesn’t exist anywhere. The question is more of *how much* interference. Generally the US has been opposed to serious government interference outside of wartime conditions like WWI and WWII, until now. Under Trump our economy is increasingly looking like China's "command capitalism" than the way it looked 40 years ago

Bravadette

Jim KKKramer said "democracy won in WWII , democracy will win again." The planet is cooked.

Rando1ph

Honestly, I heard it somewhere a while back and didn't bother looking it up. It doesn't make a lot of sense because all they did in WWII was be a punching bag. But I was reasonably close, going off of memory. https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4075341-china-is-in-default-on-a-trillion-dollars-in-debt-to-us-bondholders-will-the-us-force-repayment/amp/

patrickbabyboyy

>Doesn't China still owe a ridiculous amount of reparations from WWII? Like more than they own in US treasuries. why would china owe anyone reparations for WWII?

Rando1ph

Doesn't China still owe a ridiculous amount of reparations from WWII? Like more than they own in US treasuries.

EMAN666666

So there won't be, first of all, because Palestine and Israel are the U.S.'s newest shiny toy after Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. Secondly, no one wants to sink money into a failing state with no spectacularly bright future. This isn't Japan post-WWII. Thirdly, I can't fathom why you'd take the significant risk with limited--if non-existent--guaranteed returns when SPY is right there.

Fair-Search-2324

Japan entered WWII because of American restrictions on oil, steel, and rubber that Japan needed.

adebyrne

It be interesting if Taiwan and TSMC decided to back the other horse. Why wouldn't they? Theyre only "American" because they weren't returned after WWII and they were subsidised. Now they are being told what to do. Isn't that why they didn't want the people's Republic?

MrNovember13

What? >Comparative advantage isn't a staple of economics, it is what trade relationships are based on Yeah... this is basic economics. Like freshman shit. I'm curious what you think economics entails. My current knowledge of China is current. They have two clunker carriers and one current generation carrier. The US has eleven supercarrier groups. While China has a larger navy by boat numbers, no country comes remotely close to the US in terms of global logistics and technological prowess. The notion spewed by the right that the US is somehow lagging in the global military sphere is laughable and just wrong. The US has a global monopoly on violence. Just because it's not wantonly employed, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is not a single situation post WWII where the US has not imposed its will when it wants and where it wants to do so.

Qubed

Technically, this is/was the post WWII world order that was instituted as policy. It was based on forced integration into the world economy most controlled by the US and European countries.  Those leaders would created and the following generation that progressed it are dying off. That's why it is falling apart.

NoApartheidOnMars

The 2000 dotcom bust, the 1998 Asian crisis, the Savings & Loans scandal, the 1987 crash, the two oil shocks. Capitalism only functioned properly for about 30 years following WWII. After that, they started clawing back all those things that generation had obtained.

ETR_Reports

Comparing to real GDP fits in to the wage argument. We can compare wages to cost of living, and we can also compare wages to the overall productivity. Wages vs cost of living only measures living standards. Wages vs overall productivity measures what proportion of overall productivity labor is receiving. It indicates where the money is going (and answers the OP of this thread, "Where all this money coming from?") The answer is not from socks and pillow cases, but asset managers of the wealthy. Exactly as you mentioned, "if you want to reap the benefits of increased productivity, own the productivity instead of agreeing to a wage." Since the late 70s-early 80s, neoliberal economics has put us into a K-shaped economy, where the profits of productivity go to asset owners instead of labor as was the previous post-WWII norm. This has given us rising inequality and entrenched power within the top 1 and top 10% most wealthy. As wages have stagnated against cost of living, and steeply declined against productivity, it has become increasingly difficult for labor to afford to buy any assets. Every asset boom and bust cycle has proved as a crisis for labor and an opportunity for the asset holder. This feedback loop further increases the power of the asset holder, further suppresses wages, and worsens the ever growing levels of inequality.

Falcon3492

He said this the last time he was in office and his economy was I believe the 17th best of all time. FDR had the best economy of all time with a GDP of 10.1 % but he was president during WWII, Clinton and Obama's economies were much better than Trumps.

FinestCrusader

Japanese soldier continues to fight for 30 years after the end of WWII

Mr_Doubtful

You’re kind of proving my point. Nobody’s saying all dot-coms made money — obviously most didn’t — but a lot of tech companies during that era were extremely profitable: Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, Oracle, Dell, HP, IBM, etc. They were real businesses caught up in the same market mania. And your IBM comment doesn’t even make sense — being founded before WWII doesn’t exclude it from the dot-com era. Nvidia was founded in the ’90s, long before AI hype, but it’s still part of today’s “AI era.” Same logic. The point is: there were plenty of profitable companies during the bubble; profits didn’t stop valuations from going insane then, and they won’t necessarily stop it now either.

ChadInNameOnly

Exactly. Bro needs to zoom out. Even moreso, I'd argue gold has been going up for quite a while now due to the US evidently losing its grip on being the stable, lone global hegemon it's been since WWII. Trump's recent incompetencies have only accelerated the decline.

strip_club_dj

I'm not really versed in Japanese politics to say either way, Japan is a pretty conservative society. I don't know if rising nationalism there is a good thing or not but she is extremely hawkish on China and supports strengthening their military beyond merely a defense force which maybe what the region needs. She has made some controversial comments like downplaying Japanese war crimes and claiming the Japanese empire was fighting a war of defense prior and during WWII though.

milkplantation

The S&P has had a 25 year period where it was underwater (‘29-‘54) and post WWII it had two 7 year periods where it was underwater (‘73-‘80 and ‘00-‘07) as well as a 6 year period where it was underwater (‘07-‘13) Basically, if you bought the peak in August 2000, you would have had to wait 13 years until March 2013 to recover your money in any sustained manner. So 13 years, and that’s not inflation adjusted. So sure, the market always goes up. But consider your horizon. If you won’t need to access your money or are 15+ years from retirement, then by all means, set it and forget it. But if you are approaching retirement or need/want money for a large expense like a house, your child’s tuition, a car, whatever…Then make sure you can wait it out or consider some defensive positions. As long as the music is playing, keep dancing. But do so with the knowledge that extended slumps do occur. The average downtime after a bear market is 3 years and the median downtime is 2 years.

chris-rox

At least until the 1950s. Some people believe there really isn't even a middle-class, just people that had cash post WWII. Explains why most blacks still don't live as well as whites.

Reelpicker

At 25 the absolute best thing to do is stay the course and keep investing. When it goes down you’re buying it in sale. Also look back at how quickly the market recovered from seemingly catastrophic events. WWII, JFK assassination, 9/11, dot com bubble, housing bubble, pandemic…. If you were 65 sure, protect gains. But timing the market is a sure way to lose out on the best gains. I’m 50 and all I can say is I wish I’d invested more and more regularly at your age.

Reelpicker

At 25 the absolute best thing to do is stay the course and keep investing. When it goes down you’re buying it in sale. Also look back at how quickly the market recovered from seemingly catastrophic events. WWII, JFK assassination, 9/11, dot com bubble, housing bubble, pandemic…. If you were 65 sure, protect gains. But timing the market is a sure way to lose out on the best gains. I’m 50 and all I can say is I wish I’d invested more and more regularly at your age.

PtnbZ

Yeah. They took power after the WWII. De Gaulle gave them too much, and they kept spreading. Now you have to work in France to finance the boomers, because it’s the « contrat social ». Everything went to shit Because of them.

Pohmell

> the WWII

Sandvicheater

Whoever created Social security was kinda regarded, they were expecting infinite population growth to support the older workers not realizing there could be mass downward spike in youth population due to war, disease, emigration, etc. And even for the sake of argument there was guaranteed rise in population growth of youth eventually you're gonna run out of livable space in the country. To be fair it was created before WWII had it been considered after the WWII i think it would've been shot down.

Harley2280

>Post WWII their market went down 97% Yeah getting nuked is pretty bad for your economy.

Emotional-Power-7242

Japan had both of the two biggest stock market crashes that didn't involve communist revolutions. Post WWII their market went down 97% and during the 90's their market went down 43% then stagnated leading to a 34 year period before reaching previous peak. What's good is diversification.

Sir_PressedMemories

So, here in the US when scientists said "we have a vaccine and a simple mask will help prevent spread, and please wash your hands, it is a great way to prevent the spread" people said fuck that, the vaccines have 5g trackers in them, I am not wearing a mask you can't make me, and washing your hands makes you gay. People went out and bought masks made of mesh material, which are completely ineffective at anything. Those who could not work starved to death because the entirety of the government's help was a $1500 deposit. That was it. And not everyone got it. Well, there was a ton of loans sent out, but those were only for business owners and the already wealthy, which were then used to buy cars and boats and make home improvements instead of being used to pay employees, which is what it was created for. Oh, and then those loans were all forgiven, but forgiving student loans is communism. My country is a sick country. We are going to go to war. Stay away from us. Maybe in a generation or two, we will heal, but we are about to experience our own WWII-type regime change. Well, we are already experiencing it. Some folks are actively cheering it on.

Okayyyayyy

Except this has happened recently and WWII was almost a century ago

DrElkSnout

F is a wartime resource for production, just like during WWII. It's possible that the shit is about to hit the fan and the big boys know it.

Emotional-Power-7242

Emerging Markets got hammered in the post WWII period when Japan lost 97% of its market cap and China withdrew from markets entirely. In this case the risk of investing in less developed markets was realized. And this period is why emerging markets have underperformed over the last 120 or whatever years. Other than 1945-1949 they have actually outperformed over long periods. Of course right now we're in a 20+ year period of massive US large cap outperformance which makes everything else look terrible. It's up to you I suppose whether this is the new normal or there will eventually be a correction.

milkplantation

Economic shocks destabilize societies and give governments the nudge toward desperate policy decisions. Could look to the Smoot Hawley Tariffs deepening the global economic slump leading to bloc economies and empowering aggressive regimes which ultimately dovetailed into WWII. Could look to US freezing Japanese assets and cutting off oil supplies on Japan who was in the midst of an economic depression thus leading to Pearl Harbour. Germany’s hyper inflation before the Nazi party rise to power. For gold to have the run its had, there needs to be some concern beyond inflation such as global conflict.

ratpH1nk

Always? I think we will see something on the order of dot com bust but not as bad and also not as long for the recovery. US tax policy has got to change. |**Crash / Event**|**Peak Date**|**Trough Date**|**Decline (%)**|**Bear Market Duration (peak → trough)**|**Recovery Time (to regain prior high)**| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |**Great Depression**|Sep 1929|Jul 1932|−86%|\~34 months|25 years (to 1954)| |**1937–1938 Recession**|Mar 1937|Apr 1938|−60%|\~13 months|\~4 years (to 1942)| |**Post-WWII Crash**|May 1946|Jun 1949|−30%|\~37 months|\~6 years (to 1954)| |**1973–74 Oil Crisis / Stagflation**|Jan 1973|Oct 1974|−48%|\~21 months|\~7 years (to 1980)| |**1987 Crash (Black Monday)**|Aug 1987|Dec 1987|−36%|\~3 months|\~2 years (to 1989)| |**Dot-Com Bust**|Mar 2000|Oct 2002|−49%|\~31 months|\~7 years (to 2007)| |**Global Financial Crisis**|Oct 2007|Mar 2009|−57%|\~17 months|\~6 years (to 2013)| |**COVID Crash**|Feb 2020|Mar 2020|−34%|\~1 month|\~5 months (to Aug 2020)| |**2022 Inflation/Fed Tightening**|Jan 2022|Oct 2022|−27%|\~9 months|\~2 years (recovered by Jul 2023)|

theinvisiblecar

Careful on using that word conservatism, as argument could be made the opposite: The dark ages were a conservative maintenance of the feudal order of the time, with the rich estate/castle owners controlled all the wealth, and with peasants as workers either going with the land or granted small pittances, then along came disruptions to the conservative order of things: battle was fought and the people won rights (the magna carta), the black death/plague and wars dropped the population to near half creating labor shortages and increased wages for the little guys, creating more expendable income and launching Europe into the renaissance. Then with the discovery of three new continents poorer Europeans could immigrate elsewhere in order to have land and build their own fortunes. If one wants to continue this timeline into America: The year 1862 saw the passage of Abe Lincoln's Homestead Act, giving people up to 125 acres of land for free in the west, places like California, Arizona, Texas, if they would just move onto that land and work it for 5 years, (even immigrants fresh off the boat at Ellis Island took advantage this, and this law, this act, remained in effect through most of the 20^(th) century, and millions upon millions of people took advantage of it.) Lincoln did this to populate the west for strategic reasons, and we have this image of the west being made on rugged individualism and true grit, and maybe it took a good bit of grit to take advantage of the Homestead Act, but in a way it was also one a great big welfare giveaway, maybe the biggest welfare giveaway in all of history. (Give me a 125 acres in California or Texas and maybe I'll go live on it for the next five years right away, and do something with the land, at least grow some vegetables!) Then the disruption of the great depression leading into WWII, and with FDR's GI bill vast numbers of not-so-rich people, including even great numbers of the oppressed minority (black Americans,) earned good pay and had college degrees paid for, and out from all of this emerged the greatest middle-class society the world had ever seen, and with the U.S. GDP being greater than half of the entire world's GDP. Now for close to a half century we have seen a great erosion of the middle class, and the truth just may be that a two-tiered economy (with people increasingly either among the rich, or else among the poor, and with a vanishing middle,) just cannot size up to being as big and as healthy of an economy as one that has a big and strong middle class. Anyway, I consider myself to be a conservative, but it's good to be careful with words like conservative and liberal, as they can mean very different things in different contexts: The emergence of Europe from the dark ages was more a matter of liberal factors working against the long and conservative order of things, or like at the founding of the U.S. it was the liberals for independence and democracy, and it was the conservatives who wanted the colonies to remain under the rule of King George. In that sense I would hope that all patriotic American conservatives would consider themselves to be among the liberals, believing that America's independence from England and securing the rights of people as individuals, were good things.  

notapersonaltrainer

Let's quantify this: There are ~800,000 H-1B visa holders. These are not O-1 “extraordinary ability” visas, and it doesn’t block Indians from normal immigration. That’s about **0.22% of the U.S. population**, mostly low- to mid-level workers, who are apparently critical to post-WWII American tech dominance. Google has 7,649 H-1Bs, $371.4B in revenue, and $74.9B in free cash flow. Covering its H-1Bs would cost $765M per year—**0.21% of revenue** or **1.15% of free cash flow**—for what’s being framed as the lynchpin of its operation. The impact is larger for indian outsourcing mills like Cognizant, but I've never met anyone worried about protecting their margins.

notapersonaltrainer

To put numbers on this: There are ~800,000 H-1B visa holders. These are not O-1 “extraordinary ability” visas, and it doesn’t block Indians from normal immigration. That’s about **0.22% of the U.S. population**, mostly low- to mid-level workers, who are apparently critical to post-WWII American tech dominance. Google has 7,649 H-1Bs, $371.4B in revenue, and $74.9B in free cash flow. Covering its H-1Bs would cost $765M per year—**0.21% of revenue** or **1.15% of free cash flow**—for what’s being called the lynchpin of its operation. The impact is larger for indian outsourcing mills like Cognizant, but I've never met anyone worried about protecting their margins.

notapersonaltrainer

Just to size this dooming: There are ~800,000 H1B visa holders. These are not the extraordinary ability O-1 visas. This also doesn't ban indians from regular immigration. That's 0.22% of the US population of low-mid level workers you're claiming is responsible for post WWII American tech dominance. Google has 7,649 H1B's, $371.40 billion revenue, and $74.9 billion free cash flow. So It would cost $765 million/year, or 0.21% of revenue, or 1.15% of FCF, to preserve what you are claiming is the lynchpin for all their innovation. Now this would be a bigger deal for indian consultant mills like Cognizant, but I've never met anyone shedding tears for their profit margins.

notapersonaltrainer

There are ~800,000 H1B visa holders. These are not the extraordinary ability O-1 visas. This also doesn't ban indians from regular immigration. That's 0.22% of the US population of low-mid level workers you're claiming is responsible for post WWII American tech dominance.

merlin2181

There was a golden era because of WWII. The US was the only manufacturing giant left to make things.

ThatLooksRight

Yeah, and look what happened to them during WWII. 

destinationdadbod

Being optimistic here. Not trying to start any political arguments or anything. Just looking at the situation with some positivity and objectivity. I think the plan was to increase tariffs on foreign products to encourage companies to produce products domestically. Producing products domestically requires infrastructure which requires money from businesses to build the infrastructure. Making the cost of borrowing money would make it cheaper for a business to borrow money to build the infrastructure. Now more products could be made in America and we are less reliant on foreign countries for our goods. Now where do you get the workers? I think that is the optimistic goal of the immigration push. If the undocumented workers are not here then there are jobs in rural America for poor Americans to take. There is a push by secretary of labor right now to promote manufacturing jobs to Americans. To me it seems like they are trying to revive the pride in blue collar workers that existed in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. This all leads to a pre WWII mentality in America of being self sufficient and having less foreign involvement than we have today. Is this all working? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Again. This is me being optimistic and regurgitating things I’ve read, heard, seen, and kind of pondered on my commute.

ManifestWestward

Reddit let's the uneducated make shit posts like this, but the reality is the WWII generation was CONSERVATIVE. They would never be Antifa. In fact if they could see the world today, they'd turn around and fight WITH the Nazis and Japs.

AntoniaFauci

All sensible. I do believe, and have for many years, that organic rates will be lower than present. Rates are essential the price intersect of supply and demand. If we view generational wealth transfer and corporate profits as supply, and the demographics of where that flows as demand, that implies low price, i.e. very low rates. It’s not the post-WWII era. We aren’t building a nation of homes, or an interstate system, or sending our kids to college. The demand for borrowed money is now what it was, even as the supply of wealth is high.

CategoryAbject8977

Keyboard warrior? If I was drafted, I would go to war. If my child was drafted, they would go to war. My grandfather was a fighter pilot in WWII. I had three uncles who fought in Vietnam. I’m from a family of people who value what we have in America. i’m not some weak, unpatriotic clown whining about how prior generations fucked me over. I’m not some beta cuck like you.

Poor_Ape6969

Dawg they still eat like they’re in WWII

CoffeeMaker999

The UK has been a pretty depressing place since before the start of WWII. Low wages, high housing costs and little to hope for. The UK was in such bad shape they had food rationing for almost a decade *after* the war ended.

john42195

I was thinking the same thing. Train left the station over 10 years ago. The reason is the post WWII baby boom started many years ago…like 80.

MimicoSkunkFan2

The idea they're all raging Republicans comes from Vietnam when (WWII draft-dodger) John Wayne and some very Republican officers were the public face of the US military establishment. Since it's all volunteers now, it follows the politics of the volunteers which varies a lot. For example, that Great Lakes base near Chicago has Marine Corps reservists, so all the volunteers for that reserve unit were Chicagolanders, who tend to be deeply Democrat. But when they deployed they got put together with a reserve unit from North Carolina, and all those reservists were from hardcore Christian areas which vote Republican. My cousin was part of the Chicago group and wrote me a lot about it, there was definitely a cultural learning curve for everybody lol

Diamondphalanges756

He fired all the people who would stand up to him and that's why troops are in DC raking leaves and picking up trash. Shameful! And I agree that this is a slap in the face to many people. My Dad was a Marine in WWII and Korea, and I find myself thankful that he's no longer here to see this. I believe it all would have killed him. I'm serious.

atomMD

I agree with your sentiments but folks underestimate how much of our global financial system is held together by USA. After WWII, USA had Bretton Woods conference to reboot global finances. America was placed at the center of it. Obviously since we went of Gold the USD has been on a debasement journey but we are not at the end of the road. You think China will step in? I see crypto nation states before that happens.

eyevanv

"What once seemed unshakable now feels fragile" I think that this statement kind of reiterates the point that 2010's were a decade of relative safety and stable "growth" in the US/world economy, and that people are almost spoiled by the financial and geopolitical state of the prior decade. It has been just over 15 years since the GFC, and less than 25 since the dot com bubble and 9/11. I highly doubt people considered stock market and the US economy unshakeable after both of those sagas. Not to mention the "war on terrorism" which was still going on, though to a lesser extent, and this is all just the recent history. Plenty of other reasons to flip your shit during the post WWII era in the US alone. As other comments have pointed out, wild shit has and will keep going on in our world, and there will always be reasons for fear, uncertainty, and doubt. VOO and chill.

fuf3d

I didn't agree with his points but I learned how to not hate someone because of what they claim to believe through Charlie. Years ago I was triggered by TPUSA, by Charlie and his staff. Now, having overcome my reactivity, I'm concerned about the rapid increase in political violence and where it's heading. Astrologically the US is up for some very tough years, echoing WWII, and the Civil War. Things are coming that will test the nation to its core, and I'm not sure it has one left, and if it does it's been corrupted. Leaving us, the individuals to sort it all out and make our own way through what's likely to be a hellscape... unless we can fight it through fiction and storytelling we are in deep trouble.

jollycreation

I’m an evil cunt? Your self-righteous, myopic anger will fit in well with your right wing fascist brethren. And you are concerned about the US *becoming* the world police? And that’s a “leftist” issue? I honestly have no idea where to even start. Maybe WWII.

Icreatedthisforyou

Damn down 1.5 million total, we must have had negative growth in 2024 under Biden!!! Oh we still added over 1.5 million total in 2024, and Biden ONLY added 14.6 million jobs over is 4 years. Biden has now dropped to the 3rd best president in job creation since WWII (out of 14), after previously being the 3rd best president in job creation since WWII. What a fucking loser. Headlines are fun. Are there valid complaints about data collection and how the outdated methodology the BLS uses is causing issues? Yes. Will there continue to be over estimates? Absolutely, that is likely to continue given the methodology. Which is troubling given May is barely positive, June already was revised negative, July is within the range several months have been revised down, and August is likely to follow said pattern.

No-Adeptness357

Even if European companies wanted to, what European company has the pockets to join this game? Where is the capacity going to come from? Even then, whose chips are they going to use to power their data centers? Europe has no alternative because they haven’t created a global competitor since WWII. The continent is more concerned with fighting over who gets the dwindling supply of wealth than it is in creating more wealth.

Dimitri3p0

Agreed. Post WWII Germany, the stock market did well in nominal terms, and it was still better than keeping cash under the mattress but buying power still degraded and depleted due to gains not keeping up with the collapse of the currency. I don't see how or why the dollar would turn around now and begin strengthening again given the current situation.

FawningDeer37

Reading this biography of Stalin has made me reconsider my opinion of 🥭. Stalin really did some shit. Industrialized the biggest nation in the world in like 8 years. Killed millions. Won WWII. Banged so many women (but not children.) 🥭 is like the Temu version of the Amazon version of a guy who wants to be Stalin.

ConsiderationKey1658

This is why we kicked your ass in WWII

EvolvingDior

We had a Dept of War. It was renamed after WWII,

Mountain_Sand3135

Many Americans died for China quest for victory and glory....what is he talking about...he cannot be talking about WWII .......USA was very comfortable providing weapons and staying out until pearl harbor .

pizzapiesinthesky

Simply put, he is trying to crash the economy. When he succeeds (he's nearly there already), and people become desperate, he and his government cronies will come up with a "solution" to "help" the citizens. This "solution" will likely involve them sending out "stimmies"/"free" money. Of course, this money will come with many strings attached that will usher in more authoritarianism. Basically, he is taking a page right out of the dictators' handbook. Don't believe me? Research WWI and WWII, and you'll quickly understand what drove Germans toward...well, you know the guy's name, so I won't risk being banned on Reddit. Driving citizens to the brink of desperation after an economic crash is usually Step 1 in these "games" dictators play.

curlnut3_14

Hes referring to when the US provided aid to China during WWII to stop Japan from invading.

ConsiderationKey1658

Yes. WWII

OrdinaryWeekly7468

You say "legally" they can't do it.. but they're doing it regardless. Alligator Alcatraz gets shut down? They reopen the exact same type of facility in former internment camps used in WWII. Deploying the military into cities? They use the National Guard for now as test grounds, but to use that to sic the military on people later. To the extent that they can't do something legally (which they have wide latitude to do anyway because the law in the US is nothing if not fascist to begin with), they have workarounds until they can keep judges on a leash... which they're currently in the process of doing.

ScootieJr

A hedge fund investment manager has no business trying to tell businesses how to run... businesses. He graduated with a degree in political science and immediately went to work for the Soros Fund Management company. He is intentionally misusing tariffs, and wants to repeat history with the Smooth-Hawley Tariff Act, like how it worsened the great depression until WWII... They want to actively cause a world war, thinking that we would be able to manufacture and sell weapons like we did in WWII, which boosted our economy. Except this time around, it would only boost the Executives of manufacturer's pockets and won't help the general population at all. Every country is going to be against us in the next World War.

OrdinaryWeekly7468

"You're confusing political power with power" Right now, they're one-in-the-same. In the post-WWII era, we were getting closer to political power being derived from civic power. But it's not. It hasn't been that way since January 19th. This administration has pretty well recreated political power to be synonymous with executive capital-P power. Trump doesn't need his cult anymore in any significant way, except to feed his own ego. You're also under the impression that this is a Trump project, when it's a Republican project in general. For the last 3 or 4 decades, various anti-democratic (small-d) conservatives have been building the infrastructure for a total state take over and they've completed it. Vance was the guy that, low-key, the institutional Republicans wanted in the first place. Not because they control him necessarily, but because his agenda falls in line with theirs. They have been authoritarians. They wanted the increase in the security state. They wanted power concentrated in the executive and to have elections become just a background rubber stamp to give some thin air of legitimacy. All of the shit that Trump is doing right now, the Republicans have been clamoring for since at least Nixon. The lesson they walked away from with Nixon wasn't "Maybe we should play by the rules." It was, "We must change the rules for us." With Vance, we have the government contracting with private tech interests to build out, essentially, a Big Brother state. That is what Palantir is. That's what xAI is gearing up to be. The really far-right techno-fascist wing of the party comes from Vance and his connections. The country, as a sort of semi-democratic republic, has been dead. The question was either: are we reverting back to this neo-mercantilist hypernationalism that was popular in the 1800s and early 1900s (which is Trump's given path), or are we going into a techno-fascist nightmare of patchwork states (which is what Thiel, Musk and, so, Vance wants)?

Asleep-Strike4978

This is called de-escalation through escalation. Example WWI and WWII.

Lortekonto

Boomers lived through the post-WWII and decolonization economy were the entire world wanted to build up their production base. They had plenty of social programs while growing up and entering the job market and when it became their turn to pay for those socialprograms with their taxes, then they voted them away. They had union paying jobs, but refused to unionize, while voting against unions and thus the unions and the well paying jobs disappeared. They are going to be the most wealthy generation in history, because they got the support of the generations before them and refused to pass the same support on.

kugelblitz_100

I hate how Redditors constantly down vote comments like this because they go against their belief that Trump will be "punished" for his crazy tariff policies. I can't stand the guy as much as any liberal Redditor but you all need to stop burying your head in the sand and pretending the U.S. economy is just like every other country. It's not. It's gigantic and has grown by leaps and bounds ahead of every other country ever since WWII. Trump is now wielding that huge power to bludgeon other countries into submission. There might be some negative consequences for the U.S. in the long term but those will probably only become visible long after Trump is gone so what does he care? I honestly don't know what to do about that but I do know acting like Canada and the U.S. are going to suffer equally under tariffs is not productive and makes us (liberals) untrustworthy to everyone else since that almost certainly isn't going to happen.

unurbane

It was never a free market though. It’s always been heavily manipulated. See the auto industry forced to make tanks/planes in WWII, financial crisis of ‘08, the buying of GM to stabilize markets, Solyndra incentives, vaccine rollout and mask production in 2020, purchase of Intel (10%) this week, etc etc.

elpresidentedeljunta

There´s always different approaches. After WWII the americans hired the scientists from the german weapons programs. The soviets secured the technicians who actually build the stuff. Both got their results...

Candid_Highlight_116

It's also possible that COVID just straight up killed too many important people. Largest loss since WWII after all. I bet on both of these.

Astronaut-Proof

This is wallstreetbets. Whenever it shifts to paternostersquarebets we’ll read everything with that dumbass accent, eat beans and toast like WWII POWs, and type regarded shit like *dived* instead of dove. Until then, we will type in American. Thank you for your attention to this matter, crooked-toothed bozo.

DK_Notice

This is the correct answer if you're in Econ 101, but it's not so simple. The Fed has certainly taken steps to affect rates at the long end of the curve, especially over the last 20 years. Look at QE, Operation Twist, and also fed policies that effectively lowered long term rates. Going back further look at the Fed's outright yield curve control and rate capping in the 40s during WWII. [https://www.chicagofed.org/publications/economic-perspectives/2021/2](https://www.chicagofed.org/publications/economic-perspectives/2021/2) So yeah, you're right, but it's not black and white regarding the Fed's ability to control rates.

wdjan

Okay, I see what you're getting at, but your original statement is different. The original statement was recovery from the Great Depression, not permanently exceeding value from Great Depression + WWII. Recovery from Great Depression, according to your chart, occurred around 8 or 9 years after 1929. The following drop was WWII. Further, this is not representative of how people actually invest. It is as likely to dump everything in at the peak as it is to dump everything in at the bottom of a trough - nobody does this. Basically any deviation from investing everything you have at the absolute peak in 1929 will result in a shorter recovery period and/or higher returns through to 1949. People invest at different times as money becomes available. Finally, looking at this from a glass half full perspective: Great Depression + WWII were 2 of the most detrimental events of the 20th century and happened essentially back-to-back. Markets were surprisingly resilient through this period given the global turmoil.

DrElkSnout

And saving the auto manufacturers was about securing the means of production in case of war. They don't give two shits about cars, but they need to move equipment around with medium and heavy duty trucks and build tanks, engines and other things if the SHTF. Look at what happened during WWII. A production plant can be re-tooled fairly quickly, and for years those plants can produce items for the military in the event of a world war. Same thing is happening now with chips, data centers and such. This is an arms race, and has the full backing of the US MIC. Some companies will lose. But many will win and they'll win BIG.

EventHorizonbyGA

I want to be clear. I like Buffett. I just don't think people understand who Buffett is. IMO he is the human equivalent of Smaug. He is a Dickens character. People look at Buffett and overlay their expectations of what a person with all that wealth would be. But, in reality Buffett has likely worked 12 hours a day for 6 days a week since he was 14. And people don't realize this. You spend your entire life not spending/wasting money in an obsessive capacity and you'd be rich too. If you did this starting out a rich kid right at the end of WWII you'd be a billionaire as well. He is a miser. Though a friendly one but a miser none-the-less. Oglethorpe, Mercer, Carnie, Melon Nobel all did good with their money. Buffett has never invested in a company working for a cure of disease. He has has claimed the tax policy in the US broken and yet is the largest holder of US Treasuries. A product that is like a vampire on our children's futures. Buffett's ideal, perfect company is selling water to people in the desert. He wants products that people can not live without (literally in the case of dialysis) or that are legally enforced upon us or subsidized from our tax revenues. Like insurance. Like GEICO. The "government" insurance company. Buffett has ridden the greatest wealth creation market in history. He entered it right after WWII and just never got off. His returns are not spectacular. When you consider he didn't buy Apple when the iPod came out. He didn't buy Nike in the 80s. He completely missed bitcoin. All of the real innovation he completely couldn't see. The reason people follow Buffett boggles the mind. Bezos is a much better person to follow. He is actually doing what you would do if you ever had money. Living.

Phenom08

I know someone mentioned this stock recently as a good buy and it was, props to that degenerate. I just hate UNH. I love tendies but at what cost? It’s like buying Porsche or Mitsubishi just before the start of WWII. I love making money but UNH profits off death. Edit, I have UNH as my primary insurance and I don’t want to die, gonna pick up a few shares.