CBOE

ShimmyxSham

Is there a CBOE bets group?

Juhkwan97

Yeah you might have to wait til they do another run of them. They came to Seattle last year but I didn't go. I'd suggest googling CBOE and CME to see what they offer. I know they do conferences but they might be for more industry level type people....

TheWeebles

I used to work for a primes brokerage at an investment bank. they've been trying to get me back for about half a year now. I told them only if I can work from the Tokyo office and support US Equities/Derivatives. If this is successful it won't stop. Would go NYSE/CBOE then MEMX/MIAX in US and might get adopted worldwide. I would imagine weekend trading as well. That would take years however, but that is my guess

YourUncleBuck

NYSE and CBOE were already planning to do the same and have been already approved.

vandalizethethief

Yeah, here is the list by [CBOE](https://www.cboe.com/notices/content/?id=61230). I guess they want to test it out some more before going live. This was approved in May or something by the SEC. I mean no one should. It's just not a positive EV trade unless your confident of something most people missed (can't be noticed by AI) or are tracking big options trades & just copying the big money.

vandalizethethief

What? Im talking about the [CBOE](https://www.cboe.com/notices/content/?id=61230), the fucking people who make the damn options market.

TradersUni

Yea I understand. GEX is a calculation. I've learned that from the videos i've been watching, open interest x gamma per strike. I've tried the EOD historical GEX data on just a few historical trading days and it's not as accurate as I would like it to be for backtesting. I've heard of tools like VolSignals, Quantwheel, Quantdata, and some others. My goal is to just find a good trustworthy tool to backtest GEX levels on to see if it's suitable or not. And possibly overlay it on my tradingview chart so I don't have to keep going back and forth. (Not totally necessary but convenient) CBOE datashop can run into the hundreds and the thousands.

__Lukewarm

Damn, I knew I shoulda bought CBOE

OurNewestMember

Not understanding is fine. Not having authoritative documentation is not fine. Expiration - it's 8 pm ET on expiration day, per OCC by-laws (p 144 in the latest revision) Termination - best defined in sec 1256(c)(1). ("by offsetting, by taking or making delivery, by exercise or being exercised, by assignment or being assigned, by lapse") Delivery - T+1 for both the long and the short leg (this should come from CBOE and the OCC) Let me know where you think my "not understanding" is among these. Feel free to point me to authoritative documentation that corrects my mistake :) I agree we don't have documentation about the delivery of cash (which I plainly said). The closest related thing we have is 1256(c)(1). Sec 1233 (which obviously depends on settlement because that's when the property is borrowed) makes it clear that it does not apply for cash deliverables, so that doesn't help us for SPX/SPXW. Basically, I think we should be able to point to text of the IRC (or punished guidance from the secretary of the Treasury) that explains the use of the index option settlement date for the short, exactly like sec 1233 does for stocks. A hyperlink to either IRS.gov, federalregister.gov or the IRC -- that is literally what I'm trying to find.

iron_condor34

The CBOE one? I've read it before. Have you read the CBOE decomp paper on it?

Repulsive-Floor-3987

The CBOE announcement says it's 7:15-9:25am and 4-4-15pm - not around the clock. Or am I overlooking something?

Jagged_Tide

So what is the CBOE thing exactly?

CuckedbyPowell

looks like it's been delayed, CBOE just updated their website saying crossing out monday and now it says TBD

ThetaEdgeHQ

Worth separating two things people are conflating here. GEX is not a data feed you buy, it is a calculation on top of the options chain (open interest and gamma per strike). So the thing that costs money is historical open interest and greeks, not "GEX" itself. dolthub has some free EOD options data, ORATS and CBOE DataShop sell the clean historical chains. Once you have the chain you compute GEX yourself, which also lets you control the assumptions instead of trusting someone else's line. And the assumptions are the whole ballgame, which is why bradley is seeing it lag. Retail GEX bakes in a guess that dealers are long calls and short puts, and the published flip level lives or dies on that sign convention. When you backtest price reaction around a GEX level you are really backtesting the accuracy of a dealer positioning assumption, not a law of physics. That is most of why the correlation looks weak. The bigger trap for your exact tickers: GEX built from end of day OI will systematically misplace levels on SPY, QQQ and SPX, because those are precisely the names where same day 0DTE flow dwarfs the resting OI, and none of that intraday flow is in the EOD snapshot you backtest on. So an EOD historical GEX backtest on SPX is close to measuring the wrong book. If you are serious about backtesting those you need intraday chain snapshots, which is exactly the expensive part nobody is selling cheap. On the "does it provide an edge" question: it is a map of where dealer hedging can amplify or dampen a move, useful as context for how price behaves once it reaches a level, not a predictor of which level it goes to. Pair it with expected move so you have both the where and the how far.

YTLupo

Im not sure, because right now they (NASDAQ / CBOE) are trying to prevent fills for that

IrishJohnnie

Except the CBOE has all the information they need to come up with this. If you actually read the link I sent, and the schema that comes with it, it tells you who has what. The trades data you're talking about needs to be inferred if it's BTO, STO, BTC or STC. No one, outside of the CBOE, will know the actual trade because they don't make this field public.

Tough_Bug_783

Half fair. What CBOE actually sells is order data. The expensive open close feed tags trades as customer or firm, which makes the same guess better, but it's still a guess about dealer books, not a copy of them. Nobody sells actual dealer positions. If a service says they read dealer books straight from CBOE they're describing their model generously.

IrishJohnnie

> Dealer positioning is inferred from the OI Probably for the cheaper services. The more expensive ones gets this straight from the CBOE.

makmanos

I've lived through all that, I was working one of the biggest market makers at the time, and what I remember the most is how many people got burned on AMZN stock. The euphoria of the market every time the "wiz" spoke, (aka Alan Greenspan) the smugs of CNBC (Kramer, the asshole on CBOE's floor whose name I don't even care to remember now) I remember of course books after book being written for some of the biggest catastrophes we've lived the most spectacular one that of LTCM 10 years before the '08 disaster -so much for the UChicago gang of Options pricing- which at the time I had hardly taken note of - result of the geniuses of Greenspan, Summers and Rubin. I don't remember the suicide epidemic you seem to describe though (apart from Madoff's son after the scandal broke out)

aguslucas

Did this hold? I had a couple of SPX options at the same time, and CBOE has adjusted one of them from $17 to \~$6.6 after the fact

shadowhand00

Sounds like CBOE is busting some of the short seller situations that I saw yesterday proactively. But you're right they will most likely let this ride. But its possible.

ThetaEdgeHQ

Worth separating two different numbers here. The 6.4k you saw seconds before close was your position marked at that last dip, which is just a live quote reacting to the 10 point drop. Settlement is a different number: SPXW weeklies are cash settled off the official 4pm closing value of the index, not off the lowest intraday print you happened to catch. So your actual cash is the intrinsic at that official close, strike minus settlement value, times 100. If the index bounced back into the bell, the settlement lands lower than the 6.4k spike you saw. It is real cash and it will hit your buying power once it settles, usually overnight, you just want to price it off the settlement value on the CBOE page rather than the number that flashed at the dip. Congrats on the trade either way.

RandomRedditor5689

This a fair bit of nuanced / wrong / misleading information in this post. This contra-exercise is a very important aspect of options that not many people really understand. Its important to be precise. a.) No broker will accept your instruction 90 minutes after the close, that is the CBOE cutoff ... most brokers have an earlier cut-off , like 5:00 pm EST or earlier. check with your broker ahead of time b.) The price movement doesn't have to be "way past" your strike , you just need it in the money enough to make exercise economical consider after hours bid/offer on the stock c.) The broker does not "exercise and sell your option" , the broker exercises the option with the exchange and closes out the resulting stock position for you in the market immediately (e.g. exercises a long call and sells shares or exercises a long put and buys shares) d.) "You get to collect whatever the bid, spread? is when it's exercised." you collect the difference between the option strike and the price the shares are sold for in the market (for an exercised call) or the difference between the option price and where the shares are bought in the market (for an exercised put) e.) "This is another reason why the hood sells off your calls and puts at 2:30 ct time" ... that is not the reason.

calebsurfs

Headlines like this make me wish I could buy calls on Citadel or Jane Street because they are going to make a killing this quarter. Currently holding CBOE and CME as maybe the next best thing though.

CloverPeterson53

You are correct there is no way around that without paying for the CBOE open-close data. where i'd push back slightly: the assumption isn't random, it's directionally right more often than not for retail-heavy flow. but "more often than not" is doing a lot of work in that sentence and it absolutely breaks on names where the customer side is net short calls. i've watched it be wrong. honestly the most useful thing is where the size actually sits, and the call/put split at each strike. that's just open interest, no convention required. the net GEX number on top is the part carrying the assumption (but still a measurement) appreciate you writing that out anyways

duboilburner

Problem is vast majority of dealer gamma exposure models are making an assumption that \*all\* calls are sold short to market makers, and all puts are bought by customers, thus making market makers short the puts. This is called the 'naive' model. If you were to learn how a market maker actually hedges for gamma as we move through a certain type of exposure, it wouldn't apply to most of the gamma models you see because virtually no one has actual accurate market maker positioning. They're all just taking the naive assumption that dealers are long all the calls and short all the puts. The only tickers you can get accurate positioning for from CBOE is SPX and VIX. A few other services also buy that from CBOE and then come up with various ways of displaying the data for end user consumption--but you have to pay for that information either way. So, when someone says "we're in negative gamma" on a specific non-SPX and non-VIX ticker, I just assume they mean that spot is in a region of strikes that is put-dominated, but we don't actually have accurate info on what dealers are actually long or short to say if we're in negative or positive gamma.

duboilburner

Yeah, I used to use SPYvsGME dotcom for that. But then I realized most "GEX" was built using naive assumptions: that all calls are sold short to dealers, making dealers long the call gamma, and that all puts are bought by customers, making dealers short the put gamma. But this isn't accurate to what's actually going on. Unfortunately, the only tickers you can actually obtain the accurate positioning for in terms of what dealers are actually long and short is SPX and VIX, and for those, you do indeed have to pay CBOE a tidy sum of money to get it (or another service that buys the data from CBOE and calculates a way to display it, such as Unusual Whales' Persicope, OptionsDepth or VS3D). So, if you are to take what an actual Market maker would tell you they would do to hedge certain exposures as we move through them, it would not apply to the naive model because it's not what the market makers actually have on their books. Not saying it's not somewhat helpful info. You can at least see which strikes have the most exposure and if it's mostly puts or calls, but we don't actually know if dealers are actually net long or net short gamma at each strike using the naive model.

TheESportsGuy

You have to guess which side the market maker is on, and joke's on you because a lot of times the answer is "both." You'll see this trash marketed as GEX, and yes, some days/weeks/months positive gamma pins the market, but you can't know which days those are going to be without guessing right a bunch, so your options are hope-you-get-lucky-guesses or pay the CBOE for MBO data, parse it all, and calculate actual GEX...And that's assuming their true GEX is fully qualified through CBOE positions alone... And then you're hoping that your assumption MMs are hedging fully delta neutral holds up and that somehow you can beat them and all of the other people who understand this dynamic to a good price. I gave up at "pay the CBOE for MBO data". Not before I wasted a bunch of time and money on SpotGamma watching this all play out. There's a reason you can't backtest or programmatically connect to their software. It'd be too quick and easy to prove that there's no edge in any of the things they provide. They are getting delayed CBOE MBO data though, which is interesting to analyze even if I have to scrape it.

Got_Engineers

TradingView has live option prices you just have to pay for the CBOE feed it’s like $10 a month. Than you just add them to a watchlist.

OptionsProOfficial

Others already mentioned this (@ken385), but CBOE DataShop is the exchange source. If you specifically want API access, look at ThetaData. They cover the SPX global trading hours session. You pull the overnight window by setting the rth parameter to false. dxFeed is another API option worth a look, but make sure it has that 8:15pm-9:25am block before you pay anything.

Chaotic_Stardust

look at CBOE Interest Rate and you get your answer :kek:

OurNewestMember

I think CBOE. also, why API access? It's historical data. Might be cheaper and easier in the medium term to get batch files and aggregate them and just work off of that. Point being, CBOE has a variety of data product offerings plus sales staff, etc, that can help get what you need. Not sure what your budget is. I'm also assuming you truly need SPX and can't make it work with other products that might have cheaper data alternatives. Lastly, I saw SPX (presumably with SPXW) but not SPXW only on CBOE. This is not API access, but... here's a $138/mo/symbol offering for minutely data (includes open interest but not additional Greeks): - https://datashop.cboe.com/option-quote-intervals Using 1hr aggregations instead cost $86 per trading month for the 1 symbol. Also note that this product no longer includes ticks without a price change (ie, size change only)

Ken385

Have you tried the CBOE itself? CBOE Datashop, [Cboe DataShop](https://datashop.cboe.com/)

Dimage54

Read the rule below. It means you’re trading way too many options every day. After hours count. “The **390 Professional Orders Rule** is a regulation established by the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) that classifies traders as "professional" if they average 390 option orders per day over a calendar month. This rule is designed to prevent non-professional traders from acting as market makers, as public orders receive priority over professional orders. The rule applies to all options orders sent to the broker for execution, including filled orders. Traders who exceed this threshold may face special order handling procedures and higher fees.”

hivaidsislethal

CBOE having issue for SPX xsp VIX btw on single leg.options

003E003

Yes and No. That's how they fool you. You need to know which customers hold the open interest. Not all customers hedge their gamma. Only market makers... and only certain market makers... hedge their gamma. There are many other large customers and traders that hold large positions in the market who do not hedge their gamma. But most GEX services lump it all together. It gets even more complicated but I'll leave it at that. Knowing exactly which customers are holding the positions requires buying that data from the CBOE and it's expensive. But nobody wants to pay that so they just make assumptions about the free, bulk, open interest data. The presume market makers sell puts to customers and buy calls from customers and so they assign all the gamma for all the open interest based on that basic wrong, outdated assumption. But the reality is plenty of customers sell puts and plenty of customers by calls from market makers and plenty plenty of very large customers trade very large quantities of spreads which include both long and short strikes and both puts and calls. If some customer trades 10,000 vertical put spreads most gex services will simply look at the bulk volume and open interest and assume market makers are short both strikes and assign short gamma to both strikes. Obviously they aren't. You just don't know who is holding the positions (who is long or short a strike) you see in bulk open interest numbers... Unless you buy that data. Vol signals is one service that has the correct data and they have several videos on YouTube that will explain all this better in detail. There are a couple other companies that come very close to having the correct data but also make some assumptions. If you're paying less than 200 or $300 a month for your gex service you aren't getting anything close to the real stuff.

_Clit-Commander_

Fuckin Fidelity’s boomer ass doesn’t let me trade SPX overnight but shows me the streaming live CBOE overnight prices. My call is way up and I can’t cash out!! Might move out of Fidelity

NationalOwl9561

Most of the time it is. Not all the time. Stop buying the BS that GEX tools are selling you to get you to buy their tool because they spend too much on CBOE data lol

WhenGeniusFail

Let's see if the CME is better at launching new products than the CBOE.

papakong88

I determine the 3XEM strike and the strike that would give me 80 cents for a 100 point wide PS (25 cents for a CS). Then I systematically place the orders from the lowest strike  to the 3X strike. Stopping for a few minutes then change price or move to the next strike. Each order is for 30 CS or 30 PS. I have only traded NDX options. Other options will be less efficient - more options for the same income. SPX costs more in fees because of the added CBOE fee.

r-rat

The rule is 390/day, not 390/account or 390/broker. CBOE can track you across accounts and brokerages so I personally wouldn't risk it.

MagnificentLee

Yeah, I guess that makes sense there’s no PFOF on SPX and XSP since CBOE is the only exchange. Thanks for the insights.

Plenty-Helicopter459

Directionally correct, IMO, with one really bad assumption. GEX does NOT tell you where MMs are positioned so you really don't know where they are hedging. In normal markets, big money sells calls and buys puts for insurance. In that case MMs are long calls and short puts and so will have to hedge accordingly. But not always. For example, in April, the liquidity was long calls, so MMs were short calls and long puts. There is only 1 place that I have found accurate MM positioning, and without that it's very difficult to read the end of the day and how Charm and Vanna are impacting MM hedging . CBOE has the data. It's very expensive to get.

BooBeef

But it’s the CBOE VIX Index, shouldn’t it be the same across all platforms?

Ken385

You can trade the overnight session on Tastytrade. For SPX, XSP, ViX and RUT. GTH (Global trading hours) are 815pm et to 925am et. Link to Tasty, [24-Hour Trading on CBOE Index Options](https://support.tastytrade.com/support/s/solutions/articles/Global-Trading-Hours#Eligible-products)

MrJohnDoe_R

Tools like OptionDepth and VS3D don't use naive GEX but actual postions provided by CBOE.

DiamondG331

Oddly enough on CBOE site it does not mention a single broker but so far yes the only two.

grAsMudhOrsE

I have some updates. Been officially on PRO for about 7 trading days. So far my SPXW execution doesn't appear different from what I had before. The fee otherwise is painful. 20c extra for each contract at least (and cheaper contracts have a few cents more, partially offset by more expensive ones have a few cents less). There is also a new CBOE rule, which IBKR complies, that they do Pro designation on a rolling month now. So no longer a quarterly thing.

skymagic

someone at CBOE needs to look into how they report futures...none of those numbers align with the sentiment in here 🤣

SadPudding531

Schwab hiding behind being 'conservative' is ridiculous. If CBOE and Nasdaq officially updated the designation window, the broker should be following the exchange rules, not maintaining a stricter penalty just because they feel like it

Tempest1897

It’s multiple is really compressed right now and I think it’s been caught up in “Kalshi is muscling in” but that seems really overblown. I’m long CBOE so obviously biased.

Main_Ad3943

Yes, I can trade SPX with Merrill too, but Merrill doesn't support CBOE trading hours, so I get locked out of trading overnight, which would be possible for certain index options (VIX,SPX) if I was using a broker that supported CBOE. I actually had some SPX options a few weeks ago that I would've profitted like 20k on if I sold them during the asia session, but by morning they were basically break even. Also, Merrill does some funny stuff with cost basis where if I sell something and rebuy it the same day, or only sell part of my holdings, it just freaks out and doesn't display my cost basis correctly until the next day. So scalping absolutely sucks on Merrill

Main_Ad3943

I was going to go with Schwab, but as far as I can tell they don't support CBOE and I like to trade SPX options so, IBKR seemed like a better fit

Advanced_Divide_4641

You should know by now they use AOL dial up trial discs to connect their app to CBOE.

solidsneeze

if you don't own CBOE to profit from your own fuck ups, what are you even doing

SeaEnvironmental756

Dude thinks he’s gonna long CBOE and then make this post like it’s an infinite money hack 

Thebaxxxx

When i come out of all cash mode it will be like the coming of gezus lol. My last round of market fuckery nearly sent CBOE to the depths of hell. This time i might knock em out for good 😼

notextremelyhelpful

It happens. I found an error in the CBOE 2019 VIX white paper about US central time vs US eastern time (NYSE trading hours) in epoch seconds for one stage of the calculations. I thought it was a big deal at the time in my twenties, but literally nobody gave a shit. It was corrected in the next edition.

HardradaTheKing

You could pick sectors that are down. This way you spread the risks over multiple stocks in a sector you deem good to hold for a couple of years. My advise would be to look at healthcare, financials and software. Also think about buying some CBOE, ICE or CME as a volatility hedge. If you wanna get more spicy, pick a small amount of AI infrastructure stocks like Marvell, Coherent, Arista or Credo. Safer AI would be Nvidia; since it is getting cheaper by the quarter. Stocks go up and down, but when in doubt: zoom out.

ThetaEdgeHQ

NDX options print to OPRA like everything else, so the data exists. The issue is that a lot of vendors market equity options and quietly leave cash settled index products out of the default set. Anyone selling full OPRA history has NDX. Databento was already mentioned, Polygon flat files and Algoseek are also worth a look at tick level. CBOE DataShop is the authoritative source since it is their listing, so if you want the cleanest fills that is the safe default. One practical warning for tick level NDX specifically. Volume is thin next to QQQ, so plenty of strikes and expiries will have sparse quote updates and wide markets, and your tick file will look patchy in a way that is real, not a data gap. If your model needs continuous quotes you may have to fill or filter around that. QQQ trades far more, which is exactly why more providers surface it by default even though NDX carries the larger notional.

Peeyotch

CBOE DataShop will probably be your best bet. ThetaData might have it, I’m not at home so I can’t check my server. I know they have been struggling with NDX index data, but I don’t know if that also applies to the options data.

LiliVonShtupp69

No one wants to get caught holding the bag so semis sell offs are more dramatic but people buy back in as soon as things stabalize. SOXL is up 7.66% today on CBOE so it looks like people are already on their way back in

Squirr3I

Gonna be real mad if this decline in $CBOE is just insiders before some news breaks and it goes further. Hopefully just sentiment...

Squirr3I

Oh god what have I done CBOE wtf.

Squirr3I

$CBOE nearly at an absolute brick wall of support at 230. Good stock to get in with max leverage.

KMI_Dragon_Knight

CBOE, you Fuck. You had one job today, going up. How hard can that be? You literally run the VIX and the casino, and most of the options market, can't you talk to a friend of a friend so they pump your shit stock for a day? Fuck you CBOE. And see you tomorrow.

TALLBRANDONDOTCOM

I just realized I can't trade pre or post market on the CBOE =\\

-sakuranbo

My VIX short put expired yesterday morning and it's STILL in showing up on ToS. CBOE takes its sweet time to settle

CD274

You all will be able to trade MU options 24/5 after the Aug 17 CBOE changes (originally set for Jul 13)

Big_Instruction9922

I took AMD puts last night. Can someone open the market so i can close them now? One of you mofos must be a janitor at the CBOE who can let me in the back doof.

Dapper_Yak_1517

u/FreeDuty6826 has a point. The exchanges have systems that, from what I’ve seen across Reddit regarding this rule, can potentially track tax ids, ip addresses (if the CBOE asked a broker for trader information regarding similar trades from two different accounts) e.g if they sought an audit. I would be genuinely interested if anyone has any further insight. I could also be completely wrong on all of this as well.

Meanderthal_668

Hi everyone, I've been trading options for a while, but I had a question on calendar spreads on European style options (specifically SPX). I understand that if not closed before the expiration of the short leg, you can lose a lot more than the debit paid (short option closes for a loss that is cash settled, and then the long leg moves OTM and expires worthless without offsetting the loss). However, what would happen if the market had an unexpected, extended closure that prevented calendar spreads from being closed before the short leg expired? E.g. - a short leg expiring on Friday the next Monday: If the market plummeted from some catastrophe on Wednesday and the Friday short leg was deep ITM, and then the market opened Monday morning and swung back in the other direction. I assume there has to be some mechanism, as it feels like every broker would be in a massively risky spot with these calendar spreads. Someone with $10k worth of SPX debits could easily lose more than they'll ever be worth in that situation; multiplied across lots of accounts, the brokerage would be down a lot of funds beyond what they could recover. I asked the trade desk as Schwab and they said something along the lines of "the CBOE would likely do some sort of adjustment" but they said it was an interesting question they'd have to look into further.

Squirr3I

!banbet CBOE 262.5 7d

LongTermStocks

SpaceX ($SPCX) shares are up 6% in premarket trading, and the stock looks poised for a strong session. Earlier, Elon Musk tweeted, "I think SpaceX will be able to reach approximately $1 trillion in revenue by 2030." This morning, several new trading instruments tied to SpaceX will begin trading on CBOE and Nasdaq, including 2x leveraged long and short ETFs from providers such as Defiance, GraniteShares, and ProShares. Personally, I'll be trading GraniteShares' $SPAL, the 2x leveraged long SpaceX ETF. I currently own 100 shares of $SPCX, but I'm looking to increase my exposure today through $SPAL. At the same time, I plan to hedge part of my position using $SNK, GraniteShares' 2x leveraged short SpaceX ETF. Why? Because the options market for $SPCX has not opened yet. Until options become available, $SNK is one of the few tools available to hedge my exposure and help protect potential gains while maintaining a bullish position on SpaceX.

iron_condor34

You should read CBOE's white paper and decomposition on the vix

Opposite_Engine_6776

Fuck you CBOE for not making SPCX options available right away.

Any-Video4464

From Reuters a few min ago: PROVIDENCE, Rhode Island, June 12 (Reuters) - Asset managers eager to roll out leveraged exchange-traded funds tied to SpaceX on its first trading day have been told to delay the launch until Monday, four sources familiar with the matter said. The setback denies speculators and traders a chance to capture the full benefits of a first-day pop in the shares of the blockbuster IPO, while managers will have to wait for the influx of capital into their products.  "We had really wanted to be out on Friday," said Matt Markiewicz, head of product and capital markets at Tradr ETFs, declining to comment on the delay. The firm's 2x long and 2x short ETFs will now debut Monday on Cboe Global Markets.  "There is a lot at stake; these products could end up holding a total of more than $10 billion" in assets, Markiewicz added. Asset managers seeking SEC approval to launch the ETFs had hoped to trade in lockstep with SpaceX's market debut, several of the issuers said. Instead, exchanges told them on Wednesday the listings would need to be pushed to the first trading day following the IPO, according to four sources. The exchanges cited SEC concerns that coupling the ETF launches with leveraged products could complicate the SpaceX debut, three sources said. The sole issuer to duck the SEC restrictions was Defiance ETFs, which rolled out its actively managed Defiance Daily 2x Space ETF, a re-launch of a product that debuted in April and that, under its new strategy, will hold stakes in one to five pure-play space economy companies. At the time of the re-launch Friday morning, the fund held exposure only to SpaceX, having acquired a block of shares at the IPO price, Defiance Chief Investment Officer Sylvia Jablonski told Reuters. "This makes it the only product able to offer first-day leveraged exposure," Jablonski said.  As of midday on Friday, the ETF had already traded nearly a million shares and intraday had soared as much as 56% before being halted by Cboe Global Markets (CBOE). Jablonski told Reuters she was unaware of the reason for the halt. Cboe could not immediately be reached for comment. Defiance also plans to launch a SpaceX-only 2x leveraged ETF on Monday, Jablonski said. The SEC did not respond to requests for comment about the broader delays in launching the raft of new products. A spokesman for the Nasdaq Stock Market, which will be home to the SpaceX IPO as well as to some of the ETFs, declined comment. Cboe Global Markets (CBOE) and the New York Stock Exchange could not immediately be reached for comment.  While there is no precedent for leveraged funds - introduced in the U.S. less than four years ago and surging in number over the past 12 months - to launch alongside an underlying stock, asset managers had hoped to gain an edge in what analysts say could be a multibillion-dollar race for assets in the first weeks of trading. "There are billions at stake in the first few weeks alone," said Todd Sohn, an ETF analyst at Strategas. Major players in the leveraged stock arena, including Direxion, GraniteShares, ProShares and Defiance, plan to roll out 2x leveraged long ETFs as soon as they are permitted to do so, according to their filings and advertisements on investment forums and social media sites.  "Investors will have multiple options; they will be able to get SpaceX exposure because of early entry on the part of passive index providers, or through the stock itself, or through the leveraged (ETF) ecosystem, which adds up to a pretty robust mechanism for price discovery," said Simeon Hyman, global investment strategist at ProShares.  He said his firm had no plans to launch early and was comfortable waiting until Monday. "The intent of everybody is to have this (IPO) work smoothly." (Reporting by Suzanne McGee in Rhode Island; Editing by Megan Davies and Shri Navaratnam)

evetSC

CBOE said as early as Tuesday

skyshadex

Would check how RH handled the CBOE 390 rule. Since it looks like you're on track to violate it.

Valkyrie_Skuld

============================================================= CBOE VIX — COMPLETE CALCULATION ============================================================= VIX measures 30-day expected volatility of the S&P 500, derived from a model-free strip of SPX option prices. It uses two expirations bracketing 30 days (near-term and next-term), computes variance for each, then interpolates to a constant 30-day horizon. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 1 — Select the options ------------------------------------------------------------- - Use SPX options for the two expirations that bracket 30 days: near-term (T_1) and next-term (T_2). (Near-term must have > 23 days to expiration; rolls weekly.) - For each expiration, use only OUT-OF-THE-MONEY puts and calls. - Exclude any option with a zero bid. - Stop including strikes once you hit two consecutive zero-bid strikes in either direction. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 2 — Time to expiration (in years, minute-precise) ------------------------------------------------------------- T = [ M_current_day + M_settlement_day + M_other_days ] / N_365 M_current_day = minutes remaining until midnight today M_settlement_day = minutes from midnight to settlement on expiration day (AM-settled = 8:30am open, PM-settled = 3:00pm close) M_other_days = total minutes in the days in between N_365 = minutes in a 365-day year = 525,600 ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 3 — Forward index level F (per expiration) ------------------------------------------------------------- Find the strike where the call price and put price are closest (smallest |call − put|). Then: F = K_min_diff + e^(RT) · (Call_price − Put_price) R = risk-free rate to that expiration K_min_diff = the strike with the smallest call-put difference ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 4 — Determine K_0 ------------------------------------------------------------- K_0 = the first strike immediately BELOW the forward F. - For strikes > K_0 : use CALL prices - For strikes < K_0 : use PUT prices - At K_0 itself : use the AVERAGE of the call and put ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 5 — Contribution of each option ------------------------------------------------------------- Each strike contributes: ΔK_i / K_i² · e^(RT) · Q(K_i) K_i = strike of the i-th OTM option Q(K_i) = midpoint of the bid-ask spread for that option ΔK_i = (K_{i+1} − K_{i-1}) / 2 (half the distance between adjacent strikes; for the lowest/highest strike, just use the difference to the single neighboring strike) R = risk-free rate T = time to expiration NOTE: the K_i² in the denominator is why deep-OTM PUTS (low strikes) dominate the value — a bid for downside tail protection lifts VIX more than equivalent call buying, and can raise VIX even with spot unchanged. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 6 — Variance for each expiration ------------------------------------------------------------- σ² = (2/T) · Σ_i [ ΔK_i / K_i² · e^(RT) · Q(K_i) ] − (1/T) · [ F / K_0 − 1 ]² Compute this separately for the near-term (σ_1², T_1) and next-term (σ_2², T_2) expirations. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 7 — Interpolate to 30 days and annualize ------------------------------------------------------------- VIX = 100 × √{ [ T_1·σ_1² · ( (N_T2 − N_30) / (N_T2 − N_T1) ) + T_2·σ_2² · ( (N_30 − N_T1) / (N_T2 − N_T1) ) ] × ( N_365 / N_30 ) } N_T1 = minutes to near-term expiration N_T2 = minutes to next-term expiration N_30 = minutes in 30 days = 43,200 N_365 = minutes in 365 days = 525,600 The bracketed term weights each expiration's variance by how close it is to the 30-day mark, then (N_365 / N_30) annualizes the 30-day variance. Square root and ×100 gives the VIX level. =============================================================

gopoohgo

Tuesday per CNBCs reporter @ CBOE

Aggressive_Instance1

Hate getting horrible fills on these kinda things - but for 750 shares, you've got wiggle room. I'm waiting til options on CBOE are available.

iwasshotbyatigeronce

IBKR allows global trading hours on SPX, VIX and NDX. Google CBOE Global Trading Hours.

FlyTradrHQ

Yeah retail access to that data is rough. Orats is probably the most accessible option for implied vol surface data at retail pricing. If you just need Greeks and basic chain data, TOS or Tastyworks screens can export CSVs, but for actual historical IV you are looking at subscription services or rolling your own from CBOE daily files.

puppymaster123

unrelated but as a vol trader, one of my most profitable trades is trading the dislocation of future vix fair value. You replicate the CBOE's own variance-swap formula — but targeted at the *VX expiry date* rather than a fixed 30-day horizon — to produce a theoretically grounded fair value. The gap between that fair value and the traded VX price is the signal. it's less sexy than directional trading but vix always mean reverts. If you want to dive into the math: [https://www.tradingview.com/script/ouhAN7VP-VIX-Fair-Value/](https://www.tradingview.com/script/ouhAN7VP-VIX-Fair-Value/)

Entrepeno0b

Check the Weather (SPY): Is SPY safely above its moving averages, or has it just bounced cleanly off its lower Bollinger Band? Check VIX (CBOE Volatility Index): to gauge if options are expensive or cheap (high VIX makes them expensive, low makes them cheap). Those can be your first two steps before trading options on any given day, they can give you an insight into the overall market without scrolling through news events.

FreeDuty6826

I meant I wouldn't try to trade at different brokerages with accounts that use the same SS#. I know it is a quarterly ban (that is actually changing in July to a monthly ban if I am not mistaken...see link). BUT, if you intentionally usurp the 390 system by trading at multiple brokerages I would be concerned that your trading days under that SS# on most conventional exchanges might be over (especially if you do it more than once). That said, brokerages can do whatever they want. Some brokerages absolutely do not work with 390 traders. If you are marked, you will be switched to liquidate only. Schwab is very murky on their rules, but their is a ton of anecdotal evidence out here on Reddit that suggests it is a two strikes and your out policy with them. So despite the fact that the CBOE doesn't say it is permanent, what actually happens at the brokerages is purely at their discretion. [https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/04/16/2026-07349/self-regulatory-organizations-nasdaq-ise-llc-notice-of-filing-and-immediate-effectiveness-of?hl=en-US](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/04/16/2026-07349/self-regulatory-organizations-nasdaq-ise-llc-notice-of-filing-and-immediate-effectiveness-of?hl=en-US)

esInvests

This was around a decade ago but I originally bought minute level full Greek from CBOE - super expensive. Thankfully people have cheaper choices now.

Fauster

The Oliver Rennik? Guy at CBOE highlighted unsual put-buying activity this am as the reason for the semi selloff. Wherever there is unusual activity, he reports on it.

Micheal_Hancho

Or CBOE

Unemployable1593

the CBOE ytd chart looks suspiciously like mine 🤔

Fhyzikz

According to CBOE, software sector has moved into Extreme Gay

ShittyUsernane1222

u/zjz should add an live 5 minute delayed CBOE, NASDAQ, SPY, DOW market order book to the daily discussion chart. it would be extremely cool to see how wsb trades are affecting market micro-structure.

baybridge501

How? Will CBOE have contracts yet? Or you intend to try to borrow shares from a broker?

FlyTradrHQ

For ESTX50, OptionMetrics IvyDB has full strike chains with Greeks. For NDX and ES, CBOE DataShop covers daily options going back decades. ThetaData does US index options at lower cost but European coverage is limited. Watch for providers that only keep active contracts, you lose expired strikes which matters for backtesting shorter-dated stuff.

Ok-Yam-6616

TPH notifies CBOE and CBOE notifies a broker. That said, each broker does their own count.  The original question was about having multiple accounts with different brokers where each account is below 390 but all of them combined are above. Who will notify who in this case?

FreeDuty6826

I don't remember where in the documentation I read it, but there was definitely verbiage that stated that if the CBOE notified a brokerage that a client was over 390, that the brokerage had something like 5 days to reclassify the account as professional. So, if the CBOE in some instances notifies the brokerage, then to me that would imply that at least in some cases someone other than the TPH's are counting.

Thebaxxxx

All the smartest people have sold every share thry own. Bill gates, rocketlab execs, and every single insider at CBOE. They all know what i am doing. Its why cboe is begging everyone to buy puts and take the bag. My strategy will bring this market to $0.01

Ok-Yam-6616

It's not FINRA's job to count order for CBOE. Besides, there is an effort by some lawmakers to either repeal CAT completely or at least scale it down to bare minimum. 

Daweism

How do I route to CBOE?