CBOE

Peeyotch

CBOE DataShop will probably be your best bet. ThetaData might have it, I’m not at home so I can’t check my server. I know they have been struggling with NDX index data, but I don’t know if that also applies to the options data.

LiliVonShtupp69

No one wants to get caught holding the bag so semis sell offs are more dramatic but people buy back in as soon as things stabalize. SOXL is up 7.66% today on CBOE so it looks like people are already on their way back in

Squirr3I

Gonna be real mad if this decline in $CBOE is just insiders before some news breaks and it goes further. Hopefully just sentiment...

Squirr3I

Oh god what have I done CBOE wtf.

Squirr3I

$CBOE nearly at an absolute brick wall of support at 230. Good stock to get in with max leverage.

KMI_Dragon_Knight

CBOE, you Fuck. You had one job today, going up. How hard can that be? You literally run the VIX and the casino, and most of the options market, can't you talk to a friend of a friend so they pump your shit stock for a day? Fuck you CBOE. And see you tomorrow.

TALLBRANDONDOTCOM

I just realized I can't trade pre or post market on the CBOE =\\

-sakuranbo

My VIX short put expired yesterday morning and it's STILL in showing up on ToS. CBOE takes its sweet time to settle

CD274

You all will be able to trade MU options 24/5 after the Aug 17 CBOE changes (originally set for Jul 13)

Big_Instruction9922

I took AMD puts last night. Can someone open the market so i can close them now? One of you mofos must be a janitor at the CBOE who can let me in the back doof.

Dapper_Yak_1517

u/FreeDuty6826 has a point. The exchanges have systems that, from what I’ve seen across Reddit regarding this rule, can potentially track tax ids, ip addresses (if the CBOE asked a broker for trader information regarding similar trades from two different accounts) e.g if they sought an audit. I would be genuinely interested if anyone has any further insight. I could also be completely wrong on all of this as well.

Meanderthal_668

Hi everyone, I've been trading options for a while, but I had a question on calendar spreads on European style options (specifically SPX). I understand that if not closed before the expiration of the short leg, you can lose a lot more than the debit paid (short option closes for a loss that is cash settled, and then the long leg moves OTM and expires worthless without offsetting the loss). However, what would happen if the market had an unexpected, extended closure that prevented calendar spreads from being closed before the short leg expired? E.g. - a short leg expiring on Friday the next Monday: If the market plummeted from some catastrophe on Wednesday and the Friday short leg was deep ITM, and then the market opened Monday morning and swung back in the other direction. I assume there has to be some mechanism, as it feels like every broker would be in a massively risky spot with these calendar spreads. Someone with $10k worth of SPX debits could easily lose more than they'll ever be worth in that situation; multiplied across lots of accounts, the brokerage would be down a lot of funds beyond what they could recover. I asked the trade desk as Schwab and they said something along the lines of "the CBOE would likely do some sort of adjustment" but they said it was an interesting question they'd have to look into further.

Squirr3I

!banbet CBOE 262.5 7d

LongTermStocks

SpaceX ($SPCX) shares are up 6% in premarket trading, and the stock looks poised for a strong session. Earlier, Elon Musk tweeted, "I think SpaceX will be able to reach approximately $1 trillion in revenue by 2030." This morning, several new trading instruments tied to SpaceX will begin trading on CBOE and Nasdaq, including 2x leveraged long and short ETFs from providers such as Defiance, GraniteShares, and ProShares. Personally, I'll be trading GraniteShares' $SPAL, the 2x leveraged long SpaceX ETF. I currently own 100 shares of $SPCX, but I'm looking to increase my exposure today through $SPAL. At the same time, I plan to hedge part of my position using $SNK, GraniteShares' 2x leveraged short SpaceX ETF. Why? Because the options market for $SPCX has not opened yet. Until options become available, $SNK is one of the few tools available to hedge my exposure and help protect potential gains while maintaining a bullish position on SpaceX.

iron_condor34

You should read CBOE's white paper and decomposition on the vix

Opposite_Engine_6776

Fuck you CBOE for not making SPCX options available right away.

Any-Video4464

From Reuters a few min ago: PROVIDENCE, Rhode Island, June 12 (Reuters) - Asset managers eager to roll out leveraged exchange-traded funds tied to SpaceX on its first trading day have been told to delay the launch until Monday, four sources familiar with the matter said. The setback denies speculators and traders a chance to capture the full benefits of a first-day pop in the shares of the blockbuster IPO, while managers will have to wait for the influx of capital into their products.  "We had really wanted to be out on Friday," said Matt Markiewicz, head of product and capital markets at Tradr ETFs, declining to comment on the delay. The firm's 2x long and 2x short ETFs will now debut Monday on Cboe Global Markets.  "There is a lot at stake; these products could end up holding a total of more than $10 billion" in assets, Markiewicz added. Asset managers seeking SEC approval to launch the ETFs had hoped to trade in lockstep with SpaceX's market debut, several of the issuers said. Instead, exchanges told them on Wednesday the listings would need to be pushed to the first trading day following the IPO, according to four sources. The exchanges cited SEC concerns that coupling the ETF launches with leveraged products could complicate the SpaceX debut, three sources said. The sole issuer to duck the SEC restrictions was Defiance ETFs, which rolled out its actively managed Defiance Daily 2x Space ETF, a re-launch of a product that debuted in April and that, under its new strategy, will hold stakes in one to five pure-play space economy companies. At the time of the re-launch Friday morning, the fund held exposure only to SpaceX, having acquired a block of shares at the IPO price, Defiance Chief Investment Officer Sylvia Jablonski told Reuters. "This makes it the only product able to offer first-day leveraged exposure," Jablonski said.  As of midday on Friday, the ETF had already traded nearly a million shares and intraday had soared as much as 56% before being halted by Cboe Global Markets (CBOE). Jablonski told Reuters she was unaware of the reason for the halt. Cboe could not immediately be reached for comment. Defiance also plans to launch a SpaceX-only 2x leveraged ETF on Monday, Jablonski said. The SEC did not respond to requests for comment about the broader delays in launching the raft of new products. A spokesman for the Nasdaq Stock Market, which will be home to the SpaceX IPO as well as to some of the ETFs, declined comment. Cboe Global Markets (CBOE) and the New York Stock Exchange could not immediately be reached for comment.  While there is no precedent for leveraged funds - introduced in the U.S. less than four years ago and surging in number over the past 12 months - to launch alongside an underlying stock, asset managers had hoped to gain an edge in what analysts say could be a multibillion-dollar race for assets in the first weeks of trading. "There are billions at stake in the first few weeks alone," said Todd Sohn, an ETF analyst at Strategas. Major players in the leveraged stock arena, including Direxion, GraniteShares, ProShares and Defiance, plan to roll out 2x leveraged long ETFs as soon as they are permitted to do so, according to their filings and advertisements on investment forums and social media sites.  "Investors will have multiple options; they will be able to get SpaceX exposure because of early entry on the part of passive index providers, or through the stock itself, or through the leveraged (ETF) ecosystem, which adds up to a pretty robust mechanism for price discovery," said Simeon Hyman, global investment strategist at ProShares.  He said his firm had no plans to launch early and was comfortable waiting until Monday. "The intent of everybody is to have this (IPO) work smoothly." (Reporting by Suzanne McGee in Rhode Island; Editing by Megan Davies and Shri Navaratnam)

evetSC

CBOE said as early as Tuesday

skyshadex

Would check how RH handled the CBOE 390 rule. Since it looks like you're on track to violate it.

Valkyrie_Skuld

============================================================= CBOE VIX — COMPLETE CALCULATION ============================================================= VIX measures 30-day expected volatility of the S&P 500, derived from a model-free strip of SPX option prices. It uses two expirations bracketing 30 days (near-term and next-term), computes variance for each, then interpolates to a constant 30-day horizon. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 1 — Select the options ------------------------------------------------------------- - Use SPX options for the two expirations that bracket 30 days: near-term (T_1) and next-term (T_2). (Near-term must have > 23 days to expiration; rolls weekly.) - For each expiration, use only OUT-OF-THE-MONEY puts and calls. - Exclude any option with a zero bid. - Stop including strikes once you hit two consecutive zero-bid strikes in either direction. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 2 — Time to expiration (in years, minute-precise) ------------------------------------------------------------- T = [ M_current_day + M_settlement_day + M_other_days ] / N_365 M_current_day = minutes remaining until midnight today M_settlement_day = minutes from midnight to settlement on expiration day (AM-settled = 8:30am open, PM-settled = 3:00pm close) M_other_days = total minutes in the days in between N_365 = minutes in a 365-day year = 525,600 ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 3 — Forward index level F (per expiration) ------------------------------------------------------------- Find the strike where the call price and put price are closest (smallest |call − put|). Then: F = K_min_diff + e^(RT) · (Call_price − Put_price) R = risk-free rate to that expiration K_min_diff = the strike with the smallest call-put difference ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 4 — Determine K_0 ------------------------------------------------------------- K_0 = the first strike immediately BELOW the forward F. - For strikes > K_0 : use CALL prices - For strikes < K_0 : use PUT prices - At K_0 itself : use the AVERAGE of the call and put ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 5 — Contribution of each option ------------------------------------------------------------- Each strike contributes: ΔK_i / K_i² · e^(RT) · Q(K_i) K_i = strike of the i-th OTM option Q(K_i) = midpoint of the bid-ask spread for that option ΔK_i = (K_{i+1} − K_{i-1}) / 2 (half the distance between adjacent strikes; for the lowest/highest strike, just use the difference to the single neighboring strike) R = risk-free rate T = time to expiration NOTE: the K_i² in the denominator is why deep-OTM PUTS (low strikes) dominate the value — a bid for downside tail protection lifts VIX more than equivalent call buying, and can raise VIX even with spot unchanged. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 6 — Variance for each expiration ------------------------------------------------------------- σ² = (2/T) · Σ_i [ ΔK_i / K_i² · e^(RT) · Q(K_i) ] − (1/T) · [ F / K_0 − 1 ]² Compute this separately for the near-term (σ_1², T_1) and next-term (σ_2², T_2) expirations. ------------------------------------------------------------- STEP 7 — Interpolate to 30 days and annualize ------------------------------------------------------------- VIX = 100 × √{ [ T_1·σ_1² · ( (N_T2 − N_30) / (N_T2 − N_T1) ) + T_2·σ_2² · ( (N_30 − N_T1) / (N_T2 − N_T1) ) ] × ( N_365 / N_30 ) } N_T1 = minutes to near-term expiration N_T2 = minutes to next-term expiration N_30 = minutes in 30 days = 43,200 N_365 = minutes in 365 days = 525,600 The bracketed term weights each expiration's variance by how close it is to the 30-day mark, then (N_365 / N_30) annualizes the 30-day variance. Square root and ×100 gives the VIX level. =============================================================

gopoohgo

Tuesday per CNBCs reporter @ CBOE

Aggressive_Instance1

Hate getting horrible fills on these kinda things - but for 750 shares, you've got wiggle room. I'm waiting til options on CBOE are available.

iwasshotbyatigeronce

IBKR allows global trading hours on SPX, VIX and NDX. Google CBOE Global Trading Hours.

FlyTradrHQ

Yeah retail access to that data is rough. Orats is probably the most accessible option for implied vol surface data at retail pricing. If you just need Greeks and basic chain data, TOS or Tastyworks screens can export CSVs, but for actual historical IV you are looking at subscription services or rolling your own from CBOE daily files.

puppymaster123

unrelated but as a vol trader, one of my most profitable trades is trading the dislocation of future vix fair value. You replicate the CBOE's own variance-swap formula — but targeted at the *VX expiry date* rather than a fixed 30-day horizon — to produce a theoretically grounded fair value. The gap between that fair value and the traded VX price is the signal. it's less sexy than directional trading but vix always mean reverts. If you want to dive into the math: [https://www.tradingview.com/script/ouhAN7VP-VIX-Fair-Value/](https://www.tradingview.com/script/ouhAN7VP-VIX-Fair-Value/)

Entrepeno0b

Check the Weather (SPY): Is SPY safely above its moving averages, or has it just bounced cleanly off its lower Bollinger Band? Check VIX (CBOE Volatility Index): to gauge if options are expensive or cheap (high VIX makes them expensive, low makes them cheap). Those can be your first two steps before trading options on any given day, they can give you an insight into the overall market without scrolling through news events.

FreeDuty6826

I meant I wouldn't try to trade at different brokerages with accounts that use the same SS#. I know it is a quarterly ban (that is actually changing in July to a monthly ban if I am not mistaken...see link). BUT, if you intentionally usurp the 390 system by trading at multiple brokerages I would be concerned that your trading days under that SS# on most conventional exchanges might be over (especially if you do it more than once). That said, brokerages can do whatever they want. Some brokerages absolutely do not work with 390 traders. If you are marked, you will be switched to liquidate only. Schwab is very murky on their rules, but their is a ton of anecdotal evidence out here on Reddit that suggests it is a two strikes and your out policy with them. So despite the fact that the CBOE doesn't say it is permanent, what actually happens at the brokerages is purely at their discretion. [https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/04/16/2026-07349/self-regulatory-organizations-nasdaq-ise-llc-notice-of-filing-and-immediate-effectiveness-of?hl=en-US](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/04/16/2026-07349/self-regulatory-organizations-nasdaq-ise-llc-notice-of-filing-and-immediate-effectiveness-of?hl=en-US)

esInvests

This was around a decade ago but I originally bought minute level full Greek from CBOE - super expensive. Thankfully people have cheaper choices now.

Fauster

The Oliver Rennik? Guy at CBOE highlighted unsual put-buying activity this am as the reason for the semi selloff. Wherever there is unusual activity, he reports on it.

Micheal_Hancho

Or CBOE

Unemployable1593

the CBOE ytd chart looks suspiciously like mine 🤔

Fhyzikz

According to CBOE, software sector has moved into Extreme Gay

ShittyUsernane1222

u/zjz should add an live 5 minute delayed CBOE, NASDAQ, SPY, DOW market order book to the daily discussion chart. it would be extremely cool to see how wsb trades are affecting market micro-structure.

baybridge501

How? Will CBOE have contracts yet? Or you intend to try to borrow shares from a broker?

FlyTradrHQ

For ESTX50, OptionMetrics IvyDB has full strike chains with Greeks. For NDX and ES, CBOE DataShop covers daily options going back decades. ThetaData does US index options at lower cost but European coverage is limited. Watch for providers that only keep active contracts, you lose expired strikes which matters for backtesting shorter-dated stuff.

Ok-Yam-6616

TPH notifies CBOE and CBOE notifies a broker. That said, each broker does their own count.  The original question was about having multiple accounts with different brokers where each account is below 390 but all of them combined are above. Who will notify who in this case?

FreeDuty6826

I don't remember where in the documentation I read it, but there was definitely verbiage that stated that if the CBOE notified a brokerage that a client was over 390, that the brokerage had something like 5 days to reclassify the account as professional. So, if the CBOE in some instances notifies the brokerage, then to me that would imply that at least in some cases someone other than the TPH's are counting.

Thebaxxxx

All the smartest people have sold every share thry own. Bill gates, rocketlab execs, and every single insider at CBOE. They all know what i am doing. Its why cboe is begging everyone to buy puts and take the bag. My strategy will bring this market to $0.01

Ok-Yam-6616

It's not FINRA's job to count order for CBOE. Besides, there is an effort by some lawmakers to either repeal CAT completely or at least scale it down to bare minimum. 

Daweism

How do I route to CBOE?

Ok-Yam-6616

Does CBOE see tax id? I trade in IRAs and each one has it's own tax id

Thebaxxxx

CBOE begging for people to bet on vix but after what happened in may we dont use vix anymore sorry bae 🙃

FreeDuty6826

The CBOE can also monitor your activity...basically if your activity catches their attention. They can reach out to your broker and ask them to mark you as professional, prior to your broker's sweep, and your broker only has a few days to oblige. I would imagine if you are heavily trading on multiple accounts the CBOE may take notice and alert all the brokerages (assuming the trading is happening under the same tax ID).

gaana15

Then you may want to read the mathematical formula of how CBOE vix is calculated and what differs in 1d vix versus vix. Accordingly, revert back to community on your findings and learnings!

Rare_Use9363

$CBOE got murdered over the last 10 sessions

u_sfools

What on earth are you rambling about brother, in 10 seconds of googling I saw that Kalshi has launched some perpetual futures products that are directly competing with CBOE, and there's expected to be further competition from others launching similar products. That's what's punishing the stock (and not just them but other exchanges) the last couple of days. Otherwise their stock has been a strong performer over the last 1-5 years.

Thebaxxxx

Jane has two options.. raise the price of the options high enough till the gains are taken or buy shares of marvel 🧐 But if the option hodlers are stubborn and orginized, jane is trapped on that front. The spread can run away to infinity 🧐 That leaves shares of marvel. There are about 640 million. And jensens comment caused billions in inflow day 1 🧐 At a quarter of these shares are spoken for by calls 🧐 Institutions own a larger chunk. But will they sell? Most are passives. Slow profit takers 🧐 There may only be 90 million shares to be turned over, and whoever holds those can set the price where they please 🧐 If jane cant deliver, the options market gets sued for billions by anyone using options 🧐 Maybe its why CBOE crashing. The end is near for options? 🧐

Thebaxxxx

#CBOE MUST BE DESPERATE IF THEYRE ACTING BEARISH. I BUY MOAR NOW MWAHhah

Thebaxxxx

10 hours ago, following CBOE stock sudden crash. *Very little macro risk being priced into the market, says Cboe's Mandy Xu*

Thebaxxxx

Im pretty sure this could be a valid reason for CBOE's sudden rapid stock decline. It began falling off a cliff the moment marvels option volume heated up. CBOE is where all the smartest people in the world work, if that shits crashing they must know somethings gone terribly wrong.

baconography

CBOE with the impressive swan dive this week, holy crap

Kaptep525

CME and CBOE will certify offer their own perps and recover, they’re not going to kill exchanges by offering a product all their market makers can already support. CME already has their spot quoted futures, which was their work around while legal stance of perps was unclear. You won’t see 50x leverage but they’ll become a normal financial product that market makers love and retail investors lose crazy money on

Wide-Contribution-29

The Roundhill Memory ETF (CBOE: DRAM) surpassed $10 billion in assets under management in only 35 days, faster than any ETF in history. As of 5/21/2026.

animalkrack3r

The options market is certainly reflecting the euphoria, as the five-day CBOE equity-only put/call (P/C) ratio has fallen to an extreme 0.45, its lowest reading since March 2022 (following the first counter-trend rally in the 2022 bear market). Prior to that, it is the most bullish option investors have been since late 2021, when the market was topping. The 21-day P/C has dropped to 0.49, its most extreme level since late 2021. But despite the level, it is bullish for stocks as long as the 21-day is in a downtrend. The more investors gobble up calls vs. puts, the higher the market goes. A market top is not seen until folks start to favor puts.

ApathysLastKiss_

You don't need me to buy them. It all goes thru the CBOE as a middleman. But the idea of selling calls would be to sell them at their most expensive

RandomRedditor5689

The price of a 650 digital call can be approximated by pricing the 649/650 and 650/651 call spread and the digital will price inline or it will be arb’d back into place. People likening this to polymarket or kashi are missing the point. Putting these on a “real” exchange has many benefits - its a safe and reliable counterparty and you know there will be a liquid market to unwind your trade at a later date - all market participants can participate , MMs , retail , BDs , HFs. This will make the pricing more stable and reliable and less able to be “manipulated” - they can be used to hedge your portfolio from a margin perspective Its very possible that this attempt by CBOE to expose this market goes no where but the reality of the situation is than binary options on SPX are all ready trading in large size in the OTC market by pretty much all institutional market participants.

Got_Engineers

So for all your nerds out there that don’t know much here’s some information for you. Three measures of the market. Correlation dispersion, and volatility. Correlation is how correlated the movements are between stocks, are they moving together in the same direction or an opposite direction. Dispersion is the distance between the returns of the winners and losers, it can also be described as latent stress in the market. Volatility is the size and magnitude of price movement. There is a paper written that basically studied previous crashes and found that correlation is a leading indicator to volatility expansion, specifically by a day. It’s been identified that when the COR1M CBOE index drops <$8, market idiosyncratic risk is at extreme lows and call option skew is im the 98%th decile. As in right now call prices are more expensive than they have been 98% of the last year. Today volatility closed at the lowest levels since January, dispersion is that the highest levels since April of last year, and correlation closed $6.33 the lowest levels since January 2025. Maximum compression of a coiled spring of energy that needs to be released somehow.

Dennim2288

binary options on a regulated exchange is basically prediction markets with a CBOE wrapper. the interesting part is whether the pricing ends up tighter than the existing event contracts, or if it just splits the same liquidity across more venues.

Imaginary_Agent_9123

Have you read about the Pit Bull. At CBOE they called him 1 contract. Not until he got a sense of the market. He had a sinking feeling about Monday. It was going to drop, but he didn’t know how much. He bought OTM Puts Options on various stocks. While all those stinkers who had called him One Contract were losing their shirts, he quietly sold his puts for 5 million. He had sold his seat in the Chicago Board Options Exchange to buy more puts. He then after Monday trading was done, he went down a repurchase a seat from those who called him One Contract. It’s the save way with stocks. During the 1929 crash there was a trader who shorted the market and made himself 5 million. You have to know the market to corner and commodity or stock. Everyone is bull or bear or in the middle, but extreme bull or extreme bear can be Russian Roulette. It’s got to be risk income you can lose and never see again. Is it gambling or investing?

ElTorteTooga

* CBOE has received SEC approval to launch extended trading hours for options.* They aren’t doing this for the benefit of retail

_rockthemike

CBOE received application for options trading after hours, HOOD up 10%

Utilize3372

Cboe (CBOE) Receives SEC Approval to Offer Extended Trading Hours for Select Multi-Listed Single Stock Options The new multi-listed extended trading hours will include a pre-market session from 7:30 a.m. ET to 9:25 a.m. ET and a post-market session from 4:00 p.m. ET to 4:15 p.m. ET, Monday to Friday, covering some of the most actively traded and liquid symbols. Based on the proposed criteria, Cboe anticipates approximately 20 names — including all the Magnificent 7 stocks such as Nvidia, Tesla, and Apple, as well as other popular single-stock names like Palantir, Broadcom and AMD — to be available for trading at launch.

003E003

I don't think there is one. But the first thing you need is to get the right data. All but a very few of the GEX tools are using faked data. They extrapolate from free Open Interest and Volume data to ASSUME that market makers hold certain positions long or short gamma. But they have no clue. Only a couple of vendors pay for the actual CBOE data which tells them which customer type bought and which sold the positions. Vol Signals is one that has the good stuff. But even if you have the good stuff I don't think you can use it for strict entry and exit signals. It is not that exact. Prices don't bounce off them. It is only one piece of data that can help you decide which areas will be tough to get through and which will slide through easier. For me, it helps me choose which strikes to use for a trade, not whether or where to buy or sell. It gives me a clue where I should be more patient with a trade and where I should be getting out. If it aligns with other support or resistance levels it might be something you can trade off but not GEX alone.

the_humeister

> Selling options calls/puts is net negative compared to buying the SPY itself. Usually. However, CBOE's S&P500 PutWrite Index has slightly outperformed SPX dating back to 1986.

MrJohnDoe_R

You CAN purchase information like short/long size and participant for SPX from CBOE. That's why VS3D and OptionDepth offer only GEX for SPX.

fcarlucci

Hey! There are many good learning resources out there about options 😄 For sure the CBOE course: [https://www.cboe.com/optionsinstitute/learningportal](https://www.cboe.com/optionsinstitute/learningportal) (maybe be hard as first approach) If you wanna invest in a book I liked: "A Simple Guide To Selling Options" by Kevin Smith We (Ctrl-Trade) also offer a free course that covers the basics for very beginners: [https://ctrl-trade.com/options-trading-free-course](https://ctrl-trade.com/options-trading-free-course) Good luck 😄

circadiggmigration

These are CBOE options. You can trade them when the futes open on Sunday night. They're also euro-style, cash settled.

003E003

Ibkr data can't tell you what customer type bought or sold that 500 lot. It can only tell you that 500 traded. Only the CBOE can tell you. I have no affiliation with volsignals but they are one of the few with the right data. "VolSignals primarily sources its data from OCC (Options Clearing Corporation) and CBOE (Chicago Board Options Exchange) exchange-level clearing feeds. This data provides granular summaries by participant type—such as customer buys, non-customer buys, firm sales, and market maker sales. Instead of relying on basic retail volume or guesswork, VolSignals uses this clearing data to track the exact positions held by large hedgers and market makers. They filter out noise (like market-maker-on-market-maker volume) to specifically model options Greeks (Gamma, Charm, and Vanna) and predict institutional hedging flows."

Comfortable_Flow5156

if the market crashed 40%+?? Home equity loan on house.... Doomsday account activated (YES , I have one for that situation) TQQQ SOXL JPM GOOG class C IBKR CBOE And you can swing trade aggressively post crash for about 6 months

Thebaxxxx

Vix and CBOE can suck my left nut right after i take a dump

Ok_Ad798

Across all major studies, only 10–30% of retail options traders are profitable, meaning 70–90% lose money. This range is consistent across multiple independent datasets, including academic research, exchange data, and regulator reports. Below is the precise, citation‑backed breakdown. 📌 The Actual Percent of Retail Traders Who Win at Options 1. 70% of retail options traders lose money CBOE + broker‑compiled data show: - 70% lose money overall - 10% are consistently profitable - 20% break even or small winners 2. 80–90% lose money according to academic consensus A multi‑study dataset (MIT Sloan, London Business School, OCC) finds: - ~80–90% of retail options traders lose money 3. India’s SEBI regulator: 91% lose, 9% win A large‑scale 2025 study of retail derivatives traders found: - 91% lose money - 9% are profitable 4. Average retail options trade ROI is negative Across 890,000 real trades: - Average ROI = –0.9% - Option buyers = –3.95% - 0DTE = –4.7% 🎯 So what percentage win? | Category | % Who Win | Source | |---------|------------|--------| | Consistently profitable | ~10% | CBOE/Broker data | | Any profit over a year | 10–30% | Academic consensus | | India SEBI study | 9% | SEBI FY25 | | Lose money | 70–90% | Multiple studies | Realistic range: Only 10–30% of retail traders make money trading options. 70–90% lose money. 🧠 Why so few win (based on the data) - Retail traders overwhelmingly buy options (negative expected value). - 0DTE trades have sharply negative ROI (–4.7%). - Retail trades cluster around earnings, where spreads widen 12–18%. - Institutions capture most premium via systematic selling. - Poor risk sizing: winners use 1–2% capital per trade.

ThetaEdgeHQ

The order count framing has been corrected already (multi leg spreads count as one). The angle worth adding is what the pro tag actually changes downstream. It isn't a trading ban, it's a routing outcome. Your spreads get pulled out of retail priced auctions (PIM on CBOE, FLEX on PHLX) and pushed into the inter market spread book where fills price worse, typically 5 to 15 cents per spread depending on liquidity. For active wheel or multi leg traders that slippage compounds. If you suspect you're near the threshold the cleanest diagnostic is to log 30 days of fills versus midpoint, compare pre and post tag on the same underlyings. The number tells you whether the routing degradation justifies whatever workaround you're considering.

DiamondG331

If your account at Schwab is pro and you open another brokerage account, it does not automatically get marked as Pro. I’ve open a new IBKR and E*trade after, with no issues. Someone else asked this and supposedly CBOE will mark all accounts but I don’t think that’s accurate and it has not been my experience. Schwab does allow Pro trading, no? Don’t think like Robinhood, WeBull etc will allow. I at least got some warning emails that I was approaching the threshold but when I got another one said 100%, nothing happened.

Amazing_Candidate976

This is close to what the famous Najarian brothers were supposedly doing since the 2000s. They get a lot of criticism these days, say what you will about them, but they were traders on the CBOE floor and have built/sold successful brokerages and options content for years. Heatseeker is what they sell for the unusual options flow. I’ve never used it and I’ve never traded strategies like this, just have read one of their books before.

grAsMudhOrsE

I had thought non-retail traders should have at least somewhere near 50% of volume, but came across a slide from a recent CBOE report. It shows that Customer had 2.5M volume while Pro Customer/Broker Dealer and only had aboue 230k according to the Cboe Open Close Dataset as of April, 2026. IIUC the only difference for Pro Customer is losing the priority on COA. This stats kinda surprised me. But Cboe never shared how much of the complex orders were handled by COA before executing on COB. That said def sounds like Pro will miss more on COA than I had expected before seeing the data.

ThetaEdgeHQ

The Customer Priority rule mentioned upthread is specifically an exchange level rule at ISE, CBOE, BOX and MIAX. It gives Priority Customer orders price and time priority at a given price level over Professional, Market Maker and Broker Dealer orders. It does not force any MM to take losing fills. The rule exists because exchanges want to subsidize retail flow to keep their PFOF and rebate ecosystems healthy. On the single lot priority observation, that is not a rule, it is auto quoter behavior. MM auto quoters typically do not pull or reprice on 1 lot prints because a single contract is unlikely to signal informed flow. A 5 lot print at the bid will trigger most auto quote logic to refresh, which is why your 5 lot order sits longer than your 1 lot. The threshold varies by underlying but for SPY and QQQ it usually sits around 3 to 5 contracts. If you actually want PC priority routing, you have to flag the order as Customer at a venue that respects it. Some retail brokers do this by default through SMART or IBKR routing, others route to PFOF wholesalers (Citadel, Virtu, Susquehanna) which gives you NBBO obligation but not actual exchange priority. The wholesaler will typically internalize and skip the exchange entirely if the order qualifies. Routing DMA to CBOE C2 with the Customer flag is the manual way to test whether your fills change at scale.

Ok_Freedom3290

0DTE SPX/SPY backtesting is genuinely one of the harder problems because the data requirements are brutal — you need minute-level options chains with IV, not just price. Most free sources don't have that. A few practical starting points: CBOE has historical settlement data free. OptionsDX and ORATS have decent paid historical chains if you get serious. For a framework, tastytrade's research library has good 0DTE studies you can use as a baseline before you write a single line of code. Mechanically for 0DTE specifically: iron condors and short strangles are the most studied structures. The key filter most people miss isn't the strike selection — it's the VIX regime gate. Selling premium on a 0DTE when VIX is spiking is a very different trade than the same structure at VIX 14. Start by segmenting your backtest by VIX bucket and you'll immediately see the regime dependency. For live data going forward, I use a terminal I built that pulls Deribit options flow + IV surface in real-time — happy to share if useful, it's at [alphasignal.digital](http://alphasignal.digital), free tier covers the basics.

amartya_dev

OptionMetrics and IvyDB are probably the gold standard for serious historical IV surface research, but they’re expensive. For retail-friendly options, maybe ORATS, ThetaData, or CBOE DataShop.

loldogex

CBOE?

i-love-small-tits-47

> But most likely it’s going to be a hold Lol, I’ll take CBOE FedWatch probabilities as being more likely to be accurate than whatever vibes you based this comment on

grAsMudhOrsE

There is a good chance that I’ll say f it and go back to SPXW this month. Will report back on any experience if that happens. So far the CBOE doc and some of the knowledgeable people I’ve talked to don’t think this is too much of a deal. Other options on the other hand are a very different story

Ken385

The SPX AM options stop trading at the end of the curb session on Thursday afternoon, (which runs from 415 to 5pm et) . They would not of been tradeable for the OP after that. The CBOE has said that they were going to include these options in the overnight session and allow trading up to 925am et Friday moringin, but it hasn't happened yet.

InvestigatorHefty799

All exchanges have a mechanism for it but exchanges aren't stupid, they'll review all their data to ensure if it was a trade placed in error or if it's just a shitty trade that didn't go your way. Busts are most common for massive mispricing. CBOE has 4 exchanges under its umbrella, there are 12 other exchanges to this and you would need to find at what exchange your trade executed on. Retail traders don't really know where their trade executed at so that's a hurdle in itself, institutional investors have live data for all this and can act quickly. [https://www.cboe.com/us/options/trading/mutual\_adjust\_or\_bust\_form/?mkt=cone](https://www.cboe.com/us/options/trading/mutual_adjust_or_bust_form/?mkt=cone)

ApathysLastKiss_

Technically yes, but the CBOE, the market maker could be the buyer. And when they do so, they hedge with shares to maintain a neutral position. It's kind of a fallacy to think, "if I sell a call here, there's another dude in a chair out there buying it from me". There's a middleman, the dealer. That's how you end up with call or out skew.

Ken385

I don't think broker really affects execution in the SPX. Almost all orders will be routed directly into the CBOE electronic book.

notfollowin

The CBOE Volatility Index (VIX), also known as the Fear Index, measures expected market volatility using a portfolio of options on the S&P 500. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/vix.asp

PapaCharlie9

Thanks for the broken link report. I fixed the first one, but the second one seems to be gone forever, so I replaced it with a similar graph of VIX term structure from CBOE.

m1nhuh

The AM SPX options always expire on the morning of the monthly contract. The settlement price is based on the value of the SPX using each stock's opening price.  Since not all shares will trade at 9:30:00 AM, the settlement price is NOT the SPX opening price and may take several minutes for the CBOE to determine the value. The symbol you can check is SOQ.

grAsMudhOrsE

Thanks! I'm on IBKR so I'm aware of the exchange fees. Overall bearable given some reduction on premium above 1.00. And the file you attached is where I got the information on the "Per CBOE" statement. I do see that for Complex Order Auction it has custom priority and IIUC COA is triggered for marketable orders before resting on COB. I normally enter my trade as a spread but legs out on exit so I imagine my entry slippage might be bigger. Do you happen to have any insights on the auction? I'd love to stay under 390. However, due to an edge case of my trading algorithm, I don't have much room left to avoid the average. Trading on /ES isn't what I had thought.. it can't replace SPXW at all. And I mostly trade SPXW so if I'm not losing too much on execution I might just take the bullet.

Ken385

Depending on your broker, you will see your exchange fees increase. You will see a difference in fill quality, especially in spreads. You will need to give up a bit more edge to be filled vs a customer orders. You're right on your customer priority comments, generally no disadvantage here in the SPX. Here is a link if you haven't seen that compares customer/MM priority (along with many other metrics) on orders on the CBOE on their different products. [cboe\_options\_product\_configurations.xlsx](https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cboe.com%2Fresources%2Fmembership%2Fcboe_options_product_configurations.xlsx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK) I would advise you to do everything you can to stay under the 390 average.

browsk

This new cnbc CBOE options reporter guy is pretty cool, good addition

richreason1983

If David Attenborough made a documentary on wallstreetbets Here, in the volatile ecosystem of the CBOE Volatility Index, we witness a rare and curious phenomenon. It is the Green Season—a period of prolonged, irrational upward momentum. But today, a shadow falls over the charts. The Red Candle has bloomed. ​From the jagged crevices of the "Support Levels," a Bear emerges. He is lean, malnourished from months of short-selling, his fur matted with the dust of margin calls. For the Bear, this flash of red is a signal of hope. He sniffs the air, sensing the sweet, metallic scent of a "Trend Reversal." ​But he is not alone. ​Nearby, a Bull grazes on overpriced tech multiples. He is bloated, arrogant, and blinded by the sun of "All-Time Highs." Even as the market bleeds, the Bull remains undeterred. He sees this dip not as a threat, but as a "Buying Opportunity." ​The Bull charges. He exerts a massive amount of capital, driving the price upward in a desperate, final surge. This is the Bull Trap. The Bear watches, patient and ancient. He knows this momentum is hollow. As the Bull reaches the peak of the "Dead Cat Bounce," his energy fails. The liquidity evaporates. The "Buy Walls" crumble like dry sandstone. ​Now, the Bear strikes. ​With a roar that echoes through the order books, the Bear lunges. He doesn't just want the profit; he wants the liquidation. He pinches the Bull between his paws, crushing the "Stop Losses" with ruthless efficiency. The Bull struggles, bleating about "Fundamentals" and "Long-term Value," but it is too late. ​The Bear begins the feast, tearing into the Bull’s remaining equity. It is a gruesome display of market mechanics—nature’s way of recycling "dumb money" back into the hands of the patient predator. ​As the sun sets on the trading day, the Bear retreats back into his cave, his belly full of premiums. Tomorrow, the cycle begins anew. For in the world of high-finance, there is no mercy—only the hunt. ​TL;DR: Bulls got trapped at the top of the bounce and the Bears are currently having a steak dinner.

ResponsibleDream7813

Fee creep on index options is annoying but kind of inevitable now that every broker's racing to zero on equities. for SPX specifically, some people have shifted to trading the underlying index as perpetual contracts instead, which sidesteps exchange surcharges entirely. markets.xyz lets you trade SPX-style exposure 24/7 without those CBOE pass-through fees hitting every contract.

Got_Engineers

Citadel securities has a video on their YouTube recently have a guy talking about their trading algorithms or some shit like that and he talked about how each trade execute and under 40 µs aka microseconds and that’s broken down into multiple components of trade engine, risk, something else etc so like a few core actions take up those 40 µs per transaction. And they say that if they were 10 µs slower, the edge would not be there. I think about it like this each trend line a market maker exists and that’s the edge they are fighting over. So if you took any timeframe like 5 minutes , the 20 EMA, 50 EMA, 100 EMA for example, might all be different market makers. The faster, the timeframe harder and more competitive than the environment is. No one knows the specifics, but these marketmakers the biggest ones like James Street and citadel and jump trading and the biggest banks all have their own territories inside this very large ecosystem. And they are obviously incredibly good at it. I heard that the most profitable trade on Wall Street is selling short dated puts by sharpe ratio. I believe CBOE posted this research. Someone is doing that on SPY/QQQ/IWM

HotDoor4125

honestly not even joking, the progression from monthly to weekly to daily to 0DTE was faster than anyone expected. Same hour options would have seemed absurd five years ago. CBOE would absolutely find a way to monetize it though lol

HotDoor4125

lol honestly at this point nothing would surprise me. GME buys CBOE, starts trading meme options on their own exchange. Comes back full circle haha.

LastFirst22

CBOE

kvndoom

CBOE can't fuck me on semis the way it did on metals. But I still feel anxiety over how fast my accounts have zoomed up the past month. What would Kenny Rogers do?

anuveya

Black Monday aftermath. Dot-com crash. 9/11. The 2008 financial crisis (VIX hit 80!). COVID crash in March 2020. Each spike marks a moment when markets seized with fear. The CBOE Volatility Index measures 30-day expected S&P 500 volatility from options prices. When VIX spikes, it's usually a buying opportunity in hindsight, but terrifying in real-time. Daily data from 1990 to present.

ThetaEdgeHQ

the time of day is doing more of the work here than the broker. SPX 9:35 to 10 am is the post opening rotation window when market maker quotes on every leg are still resetting from overnight. the printed mid is derived from stale quotes that aren't tradeable yet for a multi leg structure. CBOE's complex order book also routes your order into one liquidity tier and holds it there. if you sit in a thin tier during that window, the same nominal mid can sit untouched for 45 minutes. the test that separates broker issue from microstructure issue: run the exact same order at 11 am with the same limit. if it fills inside 5 minutes, you were stuck in the opening rotation. if it still sits, the limit was inside the actually tradeable spread and no broker switch will help you. the_humeister's point about SPX always going through CBOE is correct and that means the cross broker comparison people are making in this thread breaks down on this specific underlying. on equity options spread across multiple exchanges, the routing argument holds. on SPX it does not.