AIG

Inside_Champion_9098

My dog picked AIG

Remarkable-Ear-1592

there are use cases already lol. just because AI is nto near AIG doesnt mean there arent use cases

VisibleHedgehog9057

CITI Group, Priceline (now Booking Holdings) and AIG all went through reverse splits and are still here. LCID also announced along with the split that they are partnering with UBER for 20K vehicles. And they have the Saudis backing them. I took the below passage off Market Watch......... "The filing explained that "because of the trading volatility often associated with low-priced stocks," many institutional investors and brokerage firms have internal policies that restrict their ability to buy low-priced stocks or to recommend them to their clients" The stock market is informed [gambling. ](http://gambling.You)It's a big risk- big reward situation. People may comment negatively as they are investing with the hope it goes down. Best of luck to you.

eyesmart1776

No AIG?

Big_Quote_1776

Intel is hemorrhaging cash, its a zombie company that will become the next Blackberry (in BB's current state).  They applied for cash under the CHIPS (Biden) Act and that has equity kickers in it.  So did the 08 bailout funds to banks - that was also cash for equity. The US (really) does not have free government welfare for businesses, it comes with an equity cost. Intel appeared to be drawing the funds with no real (need) to increase production,  so Trump pulled the trigger on the kicker requirements - which will dilute stupid shareholders that own the pig. Intel is also getting cash from Berkshire Hathaway under much more egregious terms (ask AIG).   Intel will lose around $12-$15 billion this year in negative cash flow from dumb products.  Desktops, MacMini kills them.  Laptops, MacPro/Air mops the Intel puke off the floor.   Servers.. AMD... AI, Intel is not even a glimmer in a semen squiggly eye, NVDA is 99.9% of that market.  Mobile... Nada, that's Qualcomm or Apple Bionic.   Intel will be left making $3 electric window processors for GM and Ford. If you own it, sell it, before the shorts rip it to $5.   Then do your homework and become real investors instead of a candlelight prayer group.

EvolvingDior

So were the bailouts of AIG and GM... yet the government got stock then, too.

EvolvingDior

The last GOP President bailed out AIG. Par for the course. Companies cannot be allowed to fail.

EvolvingDior

The US took a stake in GM when it bailed them out. Same for AIG.

Upbeat_Size_5214

The AIG of Semiconductors. Too greedy and stupid to compete. Now deemed too important to fail. Republicans again, picking winners and losers.

throwaway2676

United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

Singapore in Singtel, DBS, Singapore Airlines (strategic via Temasek) India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

Japan in NTT (strategic/mandated), TEPCO (rescue/ongoing) Singapore in Singtel, DBS, Singapore Airlines (strategic via Temasek) India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

RampantPrototyping

Inherent economic instability will manifest itself eventual. Even if it takes awhile. Even the rich couldnt stop Lehman Brothers or AIG from collapsing

Ok_Try_2086

The US government taking an equity stake in private companies isn’t the norm but not unusual. Here is a short list: • 1917–1918 – Various war industries (steel, shipping, defense) • 1971 – Amtrak • 1970s – Conrail (railroads including Penn Central) • 1984 – Continental Illinois Bank • 2008 – AIG • 2008 – Citigroup • 2008 – Fannie Mae • 2008 – Freddie Mac • 2009 – General Motors • 2009 – Chrysler

throwaway2676

Most of them, considering examples include Taiwan in TSMC Japan in NTT (strategic/mandated), TEPCO (rescue/ongoing) Singapore in Singtel, DBS, Singapore Airlines (strategic via Temasek) India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

pennylicker855

Cool, I can put my soon to be intel shares with my GM and AIG shares I've been waiting on since 2009. They should be in the mail any day now, right?

Traveler_6121

Here’s 10. 10 times the government invested in a business not counting, bread, cheese, milk, etc 1. Tesla (U.S.) – The Department of Energy gave Tesla a $465 million loan in 2010 to build its electric vehicle factory. Tesla repaid it early in 2013. 2. General Motors (U.S.) – During the 2008–2009 financial crisis, the U.S. government invested about $50 billion into GM, taking a large equity stake to prevent bankruptcy. 3. AIG (U.S.) – The government invested over $180 billion during the 2008 financial crisis to stabilize AIG, taking a majority stake until it was later sold back. 4. Solyndra (U.S.) – The government invested $535 million in loan guarantees in 2009 to support the solar panel company (which later failed). 5. Airbus (European Union governments) – France, Germany, and the UK invested billions over decades in Airbus via subsidies and launch aid, helping it compete with Boeing. 6. SpaceX (U.S.) – NASA awarded SpaceX billions in contracts starting in 2008, effectively investing in its development of rockets and space transport. 7. Bank of America (U.S.) – Received $45 billion through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in 2008 to stabilize the financial system. 8. Royal Bank of Scotland (UK) – The UK government injected £45.5 billion in 2008, taking an 84% ownership stake. 9. Airlines (multiple countries, 2020 COVID-19 bailouts) – U.S. airlines like Delta, United, and American received billions in loans and grants; Germany took a 20% stake in Lufthansa. 10. Semiconductor Companies (U.S. CHIPS Act, 2022) – The U.S. government committed $52 billion in subsidies and grants for companies like Intel, TSMC, and Micron to build semiconductor plants in the U.S. How did they do? ⸻ 1. Tesla – DOE Loan (2010) • Result: Huge success. Tesla repaid the $465M loan early (2013), went on to become one of the world’s most valuable companies, and accelerated EV adoption. • Government outcome: Financially positive, and policy goal (EVs) advanced. ⸻ 2. General Motors – Bailout (2009) • Result: Success overall. GM avoided collapse, saved ~1 million jobs, returned to profitability. • Government outcome: U.S. sold its stake by 2013, losing ~$11B on the $50B investment, but policymakers considered it worthwhile to save the auto industry. ⸻ 3. AIG – Bailout (2008) • Result: Mixed to success. AIG stabilized, government gradually sold its stake at a profit. • Government outcome: U.S. invested ~$182B, recovered about $205B. Net gain ~$23B. ⸻ 4. Solyndra – Loan Guarantee (2009) • Result: Failure. Solyndra went bankrupt in 2011 despite $535M in federal support. • Government outcome: Big political controversy, but small relative to DOE’s wider clean energy loan portfolio (which overall turned a profit). ⸻ 5. Airbus – EU Support (ongoing) • Result: Long-term success. Airbus is now a global aerospace leader and Boeing’s biggest rival. • Government outcome: Strategic win for Europe, but led to WTO trade disputes with the U.S. over “illegal subsidies.” ⸻ 6. SpaceX – NASA Contracts (2008 onward) • Result: Huge success. NASA’s early contracts kept SpaceX afloat. It now dominates commercial launch markets and resupplies the ISS. • Government outcome: U.S. saved billions compared to traditional NASA contractors; helped ensure U.S. access to space after the Shuttle retired. ⸻ 7. Bank of America – TARP (2008) • Result: Success. Bank stabilized, repaid $45B by 2009–2010. • Government outcome: U.S. made a profit on dividends/interest. ⸻ 8. Royal Bank of Scotland – Bailout (2008) • Result: Mostly failure. RBS was effectively nationalized; its share price collapsed. UK taxpayers lost tens of billions as the government slowly sold down its 84% stake. • Government outcome: Big financial loss, though collapse was avoided. ⸻ 9. Airlines – COVID Bailouts (2020) • Result: Mixed. Bailouts kept airlines alive and workers paid during the crisis. U.S. loans mostly repaid, but taxpayers didn’t profit much. In Germany, Lufthansa’s rescue turned into a financial win — the government made ~€760M profit when it sold its stake in 2023. • Government outcome: Policy success (industry survival), with mixed financial outcomes depending on country. ⸻ 10. Semiconductors – CHIPS Act (2022 ongoing) • Result: Too early to tell. Billions committed to Intel, TSMC, Micron, Samsung for U.S. fabs. • Government outcome: No financial returns yet, but early signs suggest it’s achieving strategic goals (reshoring chip production, securing supply chains). , but policymakers considered it worthwhile to save the auto industry.:

Jordykins850

Subprime loans and the derivative trading, along with the increase in allowed leverage to trade more of them, are what caused the crash. The collapse of AIG is what really brought it down and that was because of insurance sold upon the products containing the bad loans.

Intrinomical

History would prove otherwise. * Joseph Cassano, head of AIG Financial Products (a key player in the credit default swap market), earned an estimated $34 million in bonuses in 2008. * Charles Prince III, who resigned as Citigroup CEO in late 2007, received a $10.4 million bonus. It's been pretty easily proven that when companies make more money, or in this case, had to be bailed out, it isn't distributed to the workers.

slo1111

It kept AIG from going insolvent.  I would say investors did quite well after the gov saved banks, auto manufacturers and insurance companies in 2009 

zxc123zxc123

Not saying this concept doesn't work well for the wider stock market. But I do wonder how well that line transfer to markets overall. Folks who bought during 2005-2007 and lost their homes? Lehman, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual, Countrywide IndyMac, CIT group, the airlines, the autos, etcetcetc Sure the MARKET survived. And sure you can pull up lots of charts of where companies survived and grew back. But a lot of companies died and were forgotten about. Many companies became nearly worthless or were bought up for dimes or pennies on the dollar with investors taking the losses. Some didn't die but do you think Citi bank will go back to $550+ by 2027? It fell to $0.97 per share, years of no dividend, and 2 decades later those investors haven't recouped even 1/5th of their original share value. And what about the people who lost their homes?

981flacht6

Yeah this isn't AIG. We're not talking about insurance. Building fabs is really insanely difficult. Once Wall Street takes in reality of the problem, they will hand the bags over to dumb retail. It'll probably happen by Tuesday afternoon.

doktorhladnjak

It's not really new. The federal government has bailed out AIG, GM, Chrysler, and numerous banks over the years

snoopingforpooping

This is the same shit they gave Obama for when taking stakes in AIG. Difference here is we aren’t in a global financial crisis

Odd_Drop_3899

In 2008 I turned $10k into $40k I was holding BOA at $2, ford at $1, AIG at $0.40 etc. I KNEW At that moment if I left that $40k in value stocks I’d have $1M by 2020. But I didn’t want $1M in 12 years, I wanted $1M at 25. I bought the worst pumps and dumps and it dwindled. Then I had some personal issues. Pulled $15k or so out of stocks and stopped paying trading. Silly.

anteatertrashbin

interference like the lack of the Dodd Frank act pre-2008? letting the banks and AIG do whatever they wanted was apparently not such a good idea for the American economy.

footlong24seven

AIG was 90% owned by Uncle Sam.

Reasonable_Roger

Maybe Hank should have let AIG go into bankruptcy in 08 and let the banks get fucked. Sure we would have been trading wampum for a few years but I think everything would have worked out ok.

rotoboro

These takes are so silly and a good example of why you shouldn’t listen to Reddit when it comes to politicized stocks. Did PLTR similarly buy their way into the NHS? BP, Airbus, 3M, Google, Amazon, Citibank, and AIG?

ImpromptuFanfiction

*Why can’t you bail me out like AIG? ARRRGHGGG*

ZHISHER

It’s different this time! There’s a global pandemic and society is shutting down! It’s different this time! This is a systemic failure-housing, Bear Stearns, Lehman, Fannie and Freddie, AIG, and auto! It’s different this time! Knickerbocker Trust just collapsed! It’s different this time! Tulip prices are crumbling!

GroundbreakingFox626

Too bid to fail. I think I remember this saying before. Oh, leman brother, AIG. on and on, they all said the same things. No such a thing.

ZombieRickyB

I wonder what AIG investors felt like before it collapsed. Probably similar to this

Few-Cycle-1187

In 2007 I got my first really good job. At AIG. I went from being on top of the world with a rising star to laid off and with a company on my resume that was toxic for a good 6 months. People were raging over the corporate bailouts. My first goal was to keep working no matter what the work was. I was working part-time jobs, odd jobs, jobs outside of my field just to stay employed. Throughout all of it I pumped more into my Traditional IRA (where I dumped my 401k after losing my AIG job). It was smart. Looking at some of my positions from then which I still hold some have increased by like 400%. At the time? It was a dark and bleak time. And I remember raging against the TV every time Obama said something like "It's going to get worse before it gets better." I was desperate for any sign of hope or encouragement. Just gotta keep charging forward.

WoodsmanAla

Probably. But also, look at AIG in 2007-2010 compared to today 😅

Mother_Dig_5829

😂😂 wait till UNHTards found out it’s the new AIG lmaoooooo

Common_Sense_2025

My post from another sub. Apologies to anyone who may have already seen it there: Started investing in 1994 and got serious about maxing out our retirement accounts in 1999. Womp, womp. It took until May 2007 for the S&P 500 to get back to the Sep 2000 level. Almost 7 years. And it stayed there more or less until January 2008. Eight glorious MONTHS after 7 years of struggling to get back up. And then, it just started to fall...a little bit. I remember one of my co-workers shushing everyone that by talking about the market we were jinxing it. It was fine. Tune out the noise. I worked in corporate finance so I was immersed in it. I couldn't just tune it out. Indy-Mac bank failed that summer, a sign of things to come. September 2008 was a lot like March 2020 in how fast things went south. My dates aren't probably all right but pretty close. Sep 7, 2008 Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taken over by the FHFA. Sep 15, Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. Sep 15, Bank of America agreed to buy Merrill Lynch which was about to collapse. Sep 16, the Fed bailed out AIG. Sep 17, the short term lending markets froze up. My employer had variable rate short term loans that reset daily and they were resetting at 12% or in some cases, not resetting so we had to repay them. The government stepped in to insure money market accounts because a couple had broke the buck. Sep 26, Washington Mutual, the largest savings and loan in the country, went under due to a run on the bank. JP Morgan Chase took them over. Wachovia was bought out by Citibank before it failed. All through the month, the government was working on bail out packages. But the various parties could not agree on what to do. We were in the middle of election season. They eventually passed something. And that was just in the US. It was going on worldwide. By October 2008, the S&P 500 was down 42% from the previous October. And it kept going. By March 2009, it was down 56% from October 2007. The job losses- Unemployment got to 10% and home foreclosures were massive. You had to be in a coma to tune out that noise. We beefed up our emergency fund but we kept buying every two weeks. We resigned ourselves to working for the rest of our lives. We were not alone in that so there was some solace. And we were actually lucky to HAVE jobs, so many people around us were being laid off. It took until early 2013 to get back to October 2007 levels. 7 years.

Rivercitybruin

Yup... Really bad disclosure and risk structure Remember reading (before crisis) that GS and MS would not do any more CDS hedging with AIG due to massive existing positions.. And look what happened And then Wall Street firms,disclose on conference call "we have $37 billion sup-prime exposure we didn't disclose" The,early fraud (NINJA loans) was horrific.. Early meaning it precipitated the crisis

AnselmoHatesFascists

I bought all the banks, Citi, BAC and even AIG because those were all beaten down on talk of getting nationalized by the Obama administration. In retrospect, complete crazy talk. But it was a great example of when they say that buying when everyone seems to be panicking is a fast track to building wealth.

CrusingTheBlock

AIG stock had it's ATH at $1,651/share back in 2000.... It's currently trading at $80/share. It's not always gauranteed that a stock will return to ATH.

ButterPotatoHead

Because past performance is no guarantee of future results. If you go back over time the top 5-10 stocks in the S&P 500 has changed and many of those that were doing well 10-20 years ago are not doing well any more, some of them are gone. GE for example was the #1 company in the S&P 500 in 1995, 2000 and 2005 and it has gone nowhere in about 25 years. AIG was also a top 10 company for 10+ years and almost went out of business.

WestBeginning3564

This is a two year hold provided the industry doesn't collapse like when AIG went under

Brave-Cash-845

Key in Countrywide, Lehman Brothers, AIG and being narrated by Matt Damon…. Totally saw this documentary and lived through it…let’s not forget this again

brandonmcgritle

Oh really…? Tell that to BKNG, or CitiGroup, or AIG, or MSI, or ZG, or SE….

Life-is-beautiful-

Can’t resist saying this. Not Reddit recommended though. I was new to this country and wanted to kick start “long term” investments. So, in 2006, I picked 3 companies that cannot fail based on recommendations. Nokia, Lehman Brothers and AIG. Rest is history.

ensui67

Yes, then you are older than me. I was there, trading AIG at $2, BofA at $5. I can only study the dotcom bubble and have learned much from people smarter than I. This is a bull market and bull markets are easy.

SPQR0027

Hold up. Let's all check that chart again. [Chart link.](https://www.macrotrends.net/2577/sp-500-pe-ratio-price-to-earnings-chart) * The Dot com indexes peaked in March 2000 and the S&P PE only hit 33.52 prior to then (in Mar 1999). It was only well **after** the market peaked and was dropping when the PE hit 46.50 in Dec 2001. (By the way, Dec 2001 is after September 11th, after Enron collapsed, and after Worldcom collapsed for context.) * For 2007-2009 the S&P peak was Oct 2007 with the PE at 23.41 that month. From then until Lehman collapses, AIG gets bailed out, and US Congress has the TARP votes (Sept-Oct 2008) the S&P PE only hit 27.92. The PE only runs up into triple digits **long after** the market has crashed in the first half of 2009 (bottom was Mar 2009).

SPQR0027

Moral hazard contributed to the 2007-2009 collapse. GM should have died. Same with AIG. Tough medicine, but facts.

blabla1733

It seems like you did okay for the first couple of years. If you have a time machine, go back to 2007 and go all in on AIG. 😈

datajunkie9382

This is make believe shit. You must be too young to remember how lazy fair played out in practice. Here is the short version: \+ Rich people buy politicians to remove regulations under the guise of "Free markets" \+ Rich people then do massively stupid shit which blows up in their face \+ Rich people then go back to those politicians with their hands out and say give us money or else \+ Politicians hand over lots of money to rich people to keep things going \+ See Savings and Loan, Intel, Boeing, AIG, Goldman Sachs, Bears Stearns, Citigroup, every mining company to ever exist, California electricity. \+ You can say, "But, but that is not what I want, it shouldn't work like that", it fucking does. Liberal democracy only works in theory, in practice it is a revolving door of hand outs to rich people who control the system. Look at the BBB for the latest version.

atropear

Yes but what they leave out is that AIG was founded by an intelligence operation. And so it probably was still run by it. They were the worst businessmen in all of history if you go by how many times over it went bankrupt.

FarrisAT

AIG?

isinkthereforeiswam

AIG thought they were too big to fail. They were bailed out, but they never recovered back to their glory days. There's always another insurance company waiting to take an ailing insurance company's place.

nostratic

>How do you take into consideration the loooong-term / "end-life” of a stock when investing for retirement? as a general rule stocks rarely stay on top for more than 10-20 years, either top of their sector or top of the overall market globally or for any given nation. Rob Arnott has done some research on this topic. https://ioandc.com/rob-arnott-sell-the-top-dogs/ many formerly dominant companies are now out of business or small cap/micro-caps (Sears; Eastman-Kodak; NL Industries; Foot Locker is the descendent of Woolworths which was once a leading retailer). or companies can be dominant, slip dramatically, and then come back to major positions (Exxon, AIG). Nobody knows for certain.

Humaniac99

How come AIG gets to have 25 bil when they fail and go bankrupt but when i fail and go bankrupt I get collection calls from bank of america

farmerbsd17

AIG

Fragrant_Witness_713

I still wear my Arthur Andersen baseball hat sometimes. And the funny things is that I was on the way to a meeting with them and AIG when the shit hit fan. I was on the Acela from DC to NYC. The meeting got cancelled halfway there! haha

Excellent_Ability793

AIG

Bracer-Phoenix

AIG

ArmedAwareness

Look up a little know stock “AIG” - look at their price right before 2008

Suspicious-Town-7688

AIG back in the day

Fragrant_Witness_713

As a sales pro I have never fully understood its valuation. The only crm tools that actually increase revenue are ones for call centers. Every other industry does just as well with old school CRM and decent excel spreadsheets. I say this as someone who has worked for companies such as IBM Global, Accenture, AIG, etc in high level Bus Dev roles. HAVING said that... good luck

shibbledoop

AIG? They are definitely still around

OrangeOld8947

The company started in 2003, and just went public about 4 years ago mainly focusing on rewiring (faster speed, different kinds of computers and network, and mainly built for companies wanting to actually use AI technology to help their businesses run better and more efficient not run them like the new fads, or that AI is a commodity, LLM’s are the actual commodities, Palantir has the huge American insurance underwriting company AIG, fully allowing AI agent bots pull real time data and being able to offer insurance underwriting claims to potential clients under an hours time when it used to take the smartest MIT or Harvard Grads over3 weeks to collect data, run them through situational algorithms, run them through outlyer tests and situation, and 3 weeks later finally have an underwriting insurance number for them. They retired Cleveland Center Hospitals like they were rebuilt from the ground up and just inked a Billion dollar military deal with NATO! They have no debt, 6 Billion in cash money & the CEO said today that they are having issues keeping up with the demand. Try and buy a few hundred shares and by the time you retire those shares will be worth a couple million! YouTube has a ton of videos trying to explain their technolog, but the video they put out on project Maven & Titan are mind blowing just in the Military fields and the company software can improve any company in any industry! It’s already up in Space with Musk and his Starlink satellites! Palantir made their software so it can be built on and built out, by new coders, or machine learning ones! Their double and triple dipping! RB

DaemonTargaryen2024

> Is there any reason not to buy “safe” individual stocks? GE, GM, Kodak, Sears, AIG… all of these were considered “safe” individual stocks, until they weren’t. > I’ve done a good bit of research and it seems like they won’t be losing value any time soon. Define “good bit of research”. There are seasoned professionals Wall Street analysts who get calls wrong all the time. What skills or information do you have which they don’t? >Obviously something bad could happen but if I don’t have crazy money in individual stocks is there any reason not to buy them? Should I just keep it all in index funds? If you want to use some “play money” at say <5% of your portfolio, that’s up to you. Any more and you’re experiencing significant [concentration risk](https://www.finra.org/investors/insights/concentration-risk)

DaMan619

https://home.treasury.gov/data/troubled-asset-relief-program >As of September 30, 2023, the total amount disbursed for TARP programs was $443.5 billion and OFS collected $425.5 billion (or $443.1 billion if including the $17.5 billion in proceeds from the additional Treasury American International Group, Inc. [AIG] shares) through repayments, sales, dividends, interest, and other income. After considering the interest expense of $13.1 billion, the net cost of TARP programs was $31.1 billion. >>[While Congress authorized $700 billion for TARP, Treasury utilized far less than that. The TARP actual lifetime cost was approximately $31.1 billion, **most of which was attributable to the program's efforts to help struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure.**](https://home.treasury.gov/data/troubled-assets-relief-program/about-tarp). Last part is interesting because Jon Steward would grill politicians why we couldn't bailout the homeowners instead the banks and TIL we did.

WinningWatchlist

Stock will freaking explode if the government lets it leave the conservatorship, most companies that have been bailed out by the government have their growth potential dead (banks being an exception) due to common shares being typically suppressed and diluted (look at AIG's stock price from 2000 to now). So TL;DR Fannie/Freddie Mac will moon because the government will let it be for-profit again.

Individual-Set5722

When was the last time the chickens came home to roost all at once on a single stock? This is reminding me like AIG for some reason.

GnosticWizard

Here’s some other great stock picks: Enron Leman Brothers Worldcom Silicon Valley Bank AIG South Sea Company Barings Bank Bank of United States I’m sure United Health will be fine. Godspeed!

puukkeriro

AIG was subject to a major government bailout that diluted shareholders. Not the same.

H3rbert_K0rnfeld

AIG knows

Careful-Rent5779

I guess you where still in high school or perphaps sporting diapers in 2008. But the government stepped in and kept AIG from going under in 2008. AIG was only a property insurer. NOT the largest healthcare insurer/reinsurer in the the US. History doesn't always repeat itself, but it often rhythms.

Careful-Rent5779

Google: AIG 2008....

Careful-Rent5779

UHN is not going to die anymore the AIG did.

liverpoolFCnut

It doesn't matter who the President is. Every one of these multi-billion dollar companies, especially the "too big to fail" ones always get away with just a slap on the wrist. What happened to the C-level of Bear Stearns, AIG, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers etc? Or for that matter Wells Fargo more recently? They'll pay the fine and move on.

rriggsco

So which ones are Bear Stearns and AIG?

redditmodsRrussians

AIG II: Luigi’s Revenge

ArmedAwareness

AIG was “to big to fail” too, I mean they got bailed out by the government but just look at their chart lol

Objective_Chest_1697

The one constant is change.  Top 10 US Companies in 2005 (by market cap): Exxon Microsoft, Citigroup, GE, Walmart, Bank of America, Johnson n Johnson, Pfizer, Intel, & AIG- yes AIG Only Microsoft remains.  The top 10 companies with the best 10 year returns are posted below, and the results were pretty surprising- only two or three known names, at least to me.  Many were pretty mundane (as far as business category goes) and surprised me. I would assume all tech, and that wasn't the case at all.  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-performing-stocks-over-past-211922467.html

Modo44

Sometimes you actually know the shitstorm is coming. Like when Goldman tricked AIG into insuring its shit subprime business, just intime before it hit the fan.

Bekabam

Majority of this thread is delusional on UNH. You think AIG was too big to fail in '08? Not even close to the scale of UNH. If UNH shutters, people don't lose their house or their jobs, they will die. * Claim denial rate goes to 100% * Hospitals may cover some procedures with the expectation of a bailout, but not everything * Optum would close too, dropping Rx fills Look, society hates them, doctors hate them, and I hate them but that doesn't matter. In the current system, they are entrenched and they will be propped up faster than anyone else if they start going to shit.

byzantinetoffee

Ok, but look. To cite just one of many likely effects, it seems realistic to assume that tariffs will negatively impact revenues for businesses both large and small, in a number of ways. This is likely to lead to layoffs, which is likely to lead to people selling assets, not investing in 401ks, and so on. Eventually enough money is withdrawn from the markets that it has a cascading effect. Look at the GFC. There was basically a yearlong buildup before it was simply too unsustainable and the house of cards collapsed with AIG and Lehman etc. The point is that the stock market cannot remain disconnected from the economy forever.

OmahaBuff

[https://images.app.goo.gl/yzXNLJLjE1umKP6x7](https://images.app.goo.gl/yzXNLJLjE1umKP6x7) Mostly it was a death by a thousand cuts with a few major drops. In first quarter of 2008, most did not know what was coming. The news just kept getting worse, between the prime mortgage issue and AIG, people losing their homes because the rates jumping so quickly on their ARMs. I saw a comment about company raises, but I worked in tech and we were already there because of the dot com bubble, The 90's were great but not after Y2K, 3% or less from that point on. One's perspective really came down to how secure your job was and could you ride it out. I think that will be true of all downturns.

buried_lede

Not surprising. Most anyone who was not in a coma  knew there was a ridiculous housing bubble that was going to pop. What I didn’t know and probably most didn’t know was how extensive it was going to be. Old investment banks synonymous with Wall Street closed for good -it was unthinkable. AIG’s entire value leveraged out of its London office. Wow. It was shocking. Opening the WSJ and seeing SP 500 company trading for $1 a share and less. Wondering if you should buy it all up or if more were going to just go out of business or if you’d have a job yourself. Jobs literally evaporated. Congress extended in employment benefits for —I think it ended up being two years, and people needed every bit of that. Republicans in Congress were colder than they are now, btw, they were vicious about cutting people off and blamed them.  Laid off Wall Street bank employees, highly paid, AVPs, VPs, not unusual for them to leave the field  —no choice —and drive limos  or start small businesses. It was brutal 

KoreyYrvaI

Not enough of them have seen what a year did to AIG stock. I was there, I remember laughing about buying AIG stock for $1 just because a year prior it was $1k a share. I never expected to see AIG over $10/share again.

MaikeerBet

One lasting memory is of me being in New Hampshire, enjoying the fall colors for the first time, and basically off the grid for the weekend. The hotel had a copy of the *Wall Street Journal* in the lobby on Monday morning, and it had this huge headline (September 15, 2008): **Crisis on Wall Street as Lehman Totters, Merrill Is Sold, AIG Seeks to Raise Cash** I kept a screenshot of that front page of the newspaper to remind me of that crazy and financially scary time.

vergorli

I was 18 at the time, so I only got the News (Germany). Until Oktober 2008 you basically only heard about a weird bank (Bear Stearns) going bancrupt, what didn't exactly fill the news. Then suddenly Lehmann was bancrupt. It hit Germany like a comet, we had news all over the place. I remember one particular yt scene really good : Dirk Müller telling, that we have. a 70% Chance of everything that is part of the financial system going to shit. (I don't like Dirk Müller, I just watched him at that time). Years later I knew he was telling about the AIG swaps for the CDOs that were basically a worldwide financial nuke. Originally I wanted to go work after graduating. But I lost my already accepted job at BMW at that time and went studying university. Retroperspectively it was a really lucky event for me.

Subject-Creme

This is the data I get from AI, after several proms: Date; Event; S&P Close; %Chg; Fed Rate 2008-01-30; Fed cuts rate to 3.00%; 1378.55; +1.79%; 3.00% 2008-03-18; Fed cuts rate to 2.25%; 1330.74; +4.24%; 2.25% 2008-03-24; JPMorgan acquires Bear Stearns; 1352.99; +0.91%; 2.25% 2008-04-30; Fed cuts rate to 2.00%; 1385.59; +1.75%; 2.00% 2008-07-11; IndyMac Bank seized; 1239.49; -1.13%; 2.00% 2008-09-07; Fannie & Freddie into conservatorship; 1267.79; +2.05%; 2.00% 2008-09-15; Lehman Brothers bankruptcy; 1192.70; -4.71%; 2.00% 2008-09-16; Fed loans AIG $85B; 1213.60; +1.75%; 2.00% 2008-09-29; House rejects bailout plan; 1106.39; -8.79%; 2.00% 2008-10-03; Congress passes $700B bailout (TARP); 1099.23; -1.35%; 2.00% 2008-10-08; Fed cuts rate to 1.50%; 984.94; -5.74%; 1.50% 2008-10-13; Global bank bailout plans; 1003.35; +11.58%; 1.50% 2008-10-15; Market crashes on recession fears; 907.84; -9.03%; 1.50% 2008-10-28; Oversold rebound optimism; 940.51; +10.79%; 1.00% 2008-10-29; Fed cuts rate to 1.00%; 974.51; +3.61%; 1.00% 2008-11-25; Fed launches QE1; 857.39; +6.47%; 1.00% 2008-12-01; NBER: Recession began Dec 2007; 816.21; -8.93%; 1.00% 2008-12-16; Fed cuts to 0.00–0.25%; 913.18; +5.14%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-03-09; S&P 500 hits bottom; 676.53; -1.00%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-03-10; Citi says profitable, market rebounds; 719.60; +6.37%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-03-18; Fed expands QE1 by $1.15T; 778.12; +2.09%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-03-23; Treasury unveils toxic asset plan (PPIP); 822.92; +7.08%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-05-07; Bank stress test results; 929.23; +1.74%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-06-01; GM files for bankruptcy; 942.87; +2.58%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-07-15; Intel earnings beat; 933.07; +0.36%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-08-25; Bernanke reappointed; 1028.00; -0.10%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-10-15; GS & JPMorgan strong profits; 1096.56; -0.81%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-11-06; Unemployment hits 10%; 1069.30; -0.26%; 0.00–0.25% 2009-12-31; S&P closes year strong; 1115.10; +0.85%; 0.00–0.25%

Accomplished-Cow-234

>People were handing over the keys or would just stop paying and waiting to be evicted. And until they suspended mark it to market rules, many banks didn't want to take possession because the asset side of their balance sheet would be wrecked if they did. >People were selling any kind of extra items or luxury goods. Boats especially, but also recreational vehicles, sports cars, jewellery, high end audio gear, collectibles, sports memorabilia, artwork. It was so bad American's started buying actual cars again. > Congress was working nights and weekends approving basically any kind of spending or bailout plan that had been cooked up during the day. Remember the debates about the Paulson Plan vs. Traditional recapitalization (government ownnership) and the cries of "socialism", especially once Obama was in office, people called GM, "government motors". Obama, to his credit, relinquished government ownership pretty damn quick. The feeling that we were close to the edge of something wasn't an illusion. If the government had late AIG default on its obligations (primarily through Credit Default Swaps IIRC), that would have been the ball game. AIG owed everyone money, and everyone who was owed owed other people. Everyone was smart and had netted positions so they were sure to make money just so long as the provider of the CDS didn't default. There was no central clearing house for the swaps so people didn't know who they were ultimately relying on or what their exposure was. It was pretty grim, but a great learning experience for a just graduating econ student.

roguehunter

The last missing and very important piece of the crash was the role of AIG. Fixed income investors and banks had massive CDS (single name and index) positions and AIG couldn’t cover the insurance when it was time to pay. This added to the liquidity crunch across uncorrelated asset classes (BSL TLBs, CLOs, IG HY).

mikeumd98

You are misremembering. Period 1, oh shit things are getting squirrelly and that was mid to end of 2007. Bear hedge fund fails, BNP starts blocking withdrawals from their hedge funds, and then we go into a recession. Beginning 2008 is where the real fun starts. Fed cuts rates 2x in 10 days in January, Bear is a fire sale , Freddie and Fannie are nationalized, then Lehman fails, AIG fails(too big to fail). September 2008, Hank Paulson comes up with TARP. WaMu fails. Beginning of October Dow falls 20% in a week. November 2008 the Fed starts buying everything. There was a time during 2008 you did not know if Citigroup, JPM, Wells, MS would even exist the next day. Many large, profitable companies were down 80-90%. For example look at a 20 year chart of Citigroup (C)

brandonmiq

This isn't really an investing story per se, but it is relevant to the aftermath. I had been out of college for like a year, it was 2008, and I had gotten a job as essentially an events coordinator for a fun team building company. Really cool interactive events with plenty of corporate clients. We would plan their events and parties, some very elaborate. I was young and not paying a ton of attention to securities markets and didn't really understand what was happening to the mortgage bond markets in particular, but it was christmas time and we had holiday parties to DJ and run. One of our clients was AIG, who had just taken bail out money from the TARP fund that the government had established to prevent a domino effect on bank failures. We required all events to pay a 50% deposit in advance to secure the event, allowing us to staff and arrange our events, etc. This was all standard and part of the contract for every event, so when our point of contact at this institution called to cancel the party, I informed them that the $50k they'd paid in deposit had already been spent on the event and was nonrefundable. If they wanted to cancel, they would have to forfeit that money. The next day they told me to move forward with the party the following week. A week after the event, the newspaper in the city, a major outlet, published a story that this financial institution had taken bailout money to throw a party. The next day, all our major corporate clients canceled their Xmas parties. 2 months later I was out of a job. I lost my apartment and had to live in my car and/or couch-surf for a couple months until ultimately deciding to move states to a place with a lower cost of living.

spaceneenja

Which is why Apple will hedge that facility and the value of its output with a hefty insurance policy. M Hope you’re ready for AIG to go bankrupt again.

SnooLobsters8382

Wasn't he highly controversial at one time? With the Insider Trader allegations, Salomon Brothers Scandal, General Re and AIG Fraud Case, Trident Mortgage Redlining Settlement (his company had to pay out a $20 million settlement over discriminatory lending practices against persons of color), Homeservices of America Antitrust Verdict (Inflating Real Estate Commissions), and honestly the list could go on. This man has been held liable and found guilty of abusing every loophole he could and got caught multiple times across multiple companies. Why are yall boot kicking him and praising him like a God? If he was a Transformer the man would be dubbed the biggest 'Decepticon'

fuglysc

lol..."an excellent money manager" is understating it...it's like saying Michael Jordan was an excellent basketball player And to insinuate that he attained his wealth by simply living a long time or being born white and at the correct time in history is one of the worst takes ever...how many people were born white and at around the same time as him? And of those hundreds of millions of people, how many Warren Buffett-esque men with similar achievements have there been? And lastly...Buffett was the richest person in the world before the great financial crisis...you implying that his wealth was somehow fortuitously aided by a couple of eventual government bailouts is so nonsensically stupid...you do realise he "saved" BoA and Goldman before the government stepped in by giving them billions each as a lifeline? Without him, they could easily have collapsed...he was even asked to bail out AIG but he passed on that He made around a total of 10 billion on the Goldman and BoA bailout deals when he was already worth 50 billion or so...without that extra 10 billion, you think what? That he would never have gotten to where he was today? And why shouldn't he be rewarded for keeping them afloat before the government stepped in? The fact that he had the dry powder to bail out these banks when the economy was on the verge of collapsing is all the proof you need that he is the greatest investor ever

Crocodile900

I did that, and reached a simple conclusion: They all thought their swaps from AIG will pay them all, and guess what, this what the bailouts achieved, with Uncle Sam taking over the company until he collected his bailout back.