AIG

atropear

Government has started and run companies for over 100 years. AIG, Amazon, Google, Facebook. At least now the taxpayer gets something out of it.

tonytwocans

>he largest one-day move in the price of gold was a gain of **$90.40**, or 11.6%, in after-hours trading on September 17, 2008, driven by fears of further credit market turmoil and a bailout of AIG. We're at 3% right now, but I think we can do better

CarrierAreArrived

I remember most of this like yesterday too. Obama would've won from the wars alone, but there was still the initial financial freefall that happened well before the election - with its own "Black Mondays" (not technically named), but there were multiple 8 to 9% Monday sell-offs with Lehman collapse, then the big bailouts of AIG and others happening under Bush and terrible economic numbers Obama was driving home. People were absolutely scared shitless about the economy leading up to the election and the wars were no longer really on anyone's mind due to that.

Last-Tangerine7212

I remember AIG crashing was a big deal. I also remember wanting Facebook to IPO. People in my life and online told me Facebook was a joke and could never monetize but I just couldn’t shake a feeling it would eventually make money and be a future heavy. Real estate was also in a massive depression and people were dumping condos for $200k that are today worth over a million.

Spiritual_Ostrich_63

I was in college and had just discovered margin accounts with Scottrade. I'd "trade" in between classes on my Dell desktop computer which was setup on top of the box that it came in. I used that for a desk. Had significant stakes in bank stocks that had been beaten down (National City, AIG, trying to remember who else from memory) Anyway, I recall Scottrade margin calling me like 3 or 4 days in a row. Basically saying come up with 8-10k in cash or we're liquidating your account lol. In the end I got decimated, and the recovery was good but don't think I made back nearly as much as the losses.

Smart-Preferences123

Exactly this. The counter party risk with TIPS is the money printer guys. I think a credit default swap at AIG in 2008 was a safer bet.

Salty-Fishman

I still remember this. I keep buying more and AIG as value play. Result was not good.

Most-Inflation-1022

I hate GS as much as the next guy, but WF, GS and JPM were forced to take the funds by Paulson. They didnt actuallly need it. GS made 14 billion shorting the mortgage market and collected from AIG after AIG bailout. Paulson and Geithner forced Dimon and Blankfein to take the funds, just so all the other banks wouldnt have runs. This is a well documented history.

jonsca

Intel "pumping" is like saying AIG had a record-breaking 2008.

SlamedCards

It was leaked in the media for months that the government wanted a solution now, cuz Intel could just pull the plug on its manufacturing business. They were never going bankrupt; they could stop losses at any time. This was not AIG

greenfrog7

There are many businesses that the US government won't allow to fail that can make terrible investments, AIG, GM, BA, Fannie and Freddie, etc Continuity of production and employment doesn't necessarily translate to shareholder returns.

Pepeshpe

Oh sure, you're right in this sense. Though, buying shares for strategic sectors in the economy is a relatively common thing in the world. In US the State had bought shares from General Motors, Chrysler and AIG in order to preserve them. In UK, the State bought some shares from RBS in 08 crisis, and had bought golden shares from OneWeb in 2020 to save it from bankruptcy, similarly to what US is doing to Intel now.

SilentBeetle

GM, AIG, banks in 2008. Continental Illinois bank in 1984. Chrysler in 1980. World war 1 and 2. People can pretend like the US is on fire but it's all narrative bullshit from the people who lost the last election and their friends in the media. Not everything is perfect, obviously, but the panic is so manufactured. It's like every day is a new thing to panic about while the market moves higher, inflation is slightly high but manageable, rates just came down. Sooner or later you have to ask yourself if things are really as bad MSNBC and Fox news make it out to be. To pretend this stuff hasn't happened before now is a clear case of recency bias. Kennedy and Nixon both used government agencies to go after their political rivals and critics. Presidents have been getting death threats and have been the victims of political violence and assassinations. Yet the enlightened left is always ALWAYS saying "this time it's different!" Just watch the history channel, PLEASE. it's sad but true that the US continues to enjoy the lifestyle it does because of our military. We've got China and Russia dick swinging for war on a daily basis. Why is it so unprecedented for the USA to invest in a domestic fabricator to be just a tad more self sufficient in the event of a conflict? I mean, it's just another cold war space race with AI, but if AI is anything like anyone is projecting, it's going to be of vital importance to be ahead of the curve. Especially if America wants to continue its prosperity. The reason people flock to the USA is because of innovation and being on the cutting edge of research and development. The left can pretend it's all awful and continue to rally for it's teardown. But if you do any digging outside of that cesspool propaganda TikTok app you'll realize that not every action of this administration is to "harm trans people" Perhaps by biggest gripe though is when the left is so outraged by everything he does it's just fatiguing. Like Trump is great at saying and doing some of the stupidest shit imaginable but Jesus Christ please blow those stories up. Leftist news outlets gathered around Trump 24/7 waiting for him to shit so they can wipe him and proclaim they've got the inside scoop on the newest leak. It's just so tiresome. When you're in the business of outrage and ad revenue, everything's a story.

MitchCurry

Automakers during the GFC. GM got $50B, Chrysler got $12B, and Ally got $17B. Didn't AIG get over $175B as well?

Inside_Champion_9098

My dog picked AIG

Remarkable-Ear-1592

there are use cases already lol. just because AI is nto near AIG doesnt mean there arent use cases

VisibleHedgehog9057

CITI Group, Priceline (now Booking Holdings) and AIG all went through reverse splits and are still here. LCID also announced along with the split that they are partnering with UBER for 20K vehicles. And they have the Saudis backing them. I took the below passage off Market Watch......... "The filing explained that "because of the trading volatility often associated with low-priced stocks," many institutional investors and brokerage firms have internal policies that restrict their ability to buy low-priced stocks or to recommend them to their clients" The stock market is informed [gambling. ](http://gambling.You)It's a big risk- big reward situation. People may comment negatively as they are investing with the hope it goes down. Best of luck to you.

eyesmart1776

No AIG?

Big_Quote_1776

Intel is hemorrhaging cash, its a zombie company that will become the next Blackberry (in BB's current state).  They applied for cash under the CHIPS (Biden) Act and that has equity kickers in it.  So did the 08 bailout funds to banks - that was also cash for equity. The US (really) does not have free government welfare for businesses, it comes with an equity cost. Intel appeared to be drawing the funds with no real (need) to increase production,  so Trump pulled the trigger on the kicker requirements - which will dilute stupid shareholders that own the pig. Intel is also getting cash from Berkshire Hathaway under much more egregious terms (ask AIG).   Intel will lose around $12-$15 billion this year in negative cash flow from dumb products.  Desktops, MacMini kills them.  Laptops, MacPro/Air mops the Intel puke off the floor.   Servers.. AMD... AI, Intel is not even a glimmer in a semen squiggly eye, NVDA is 99.9% of that market.  Mobile... Nada, that's Qualcomm or Apple Bionic.   Intel will be left making $3 electric window processors for GM and Ford. If you own it, sell it, before the shorts rip it to $5.   Then do your homework and become real investors instead of a candlelight prayer group.

EvolvingDior

So were the bailouts of AIG and GM... yet the government got stock then, too.

EvolvingDior

The last GOP President bailed out AIG. Par for the course. Companies cannot be allowed to fail.

EvolvingDior

The US took a stake in GM when it bailed them out. Same for AIG.

Upbeat_Size_5214

The AIG of Semiconductors. Too greedy and stupid to compete. Now deemed too important to fail. Republicans again, picking winners and losers.

throwaway2676

United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

Singapore in Singtel, DBS, Singapore Airlines (strategic via Temasek) India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

throwaway2676

Japan in NTT (strategic/mandated), TEPCO (rescue/ongoing) Singapore in Singtel, DBS, Singapore Airlines (strategic via Temasek) India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

RampantPrototyping

Inherent economic instability will manifest itself eventual. Even if it takes awhile. Even the rich couldnt stop Lehman Brothers or AIG from collapsing

Ok_Try_2086

The US government taking an equity stake in private companies isn’t the norm but not unusual. Here is a short list: • 1917–1918 – Various war industries (steel, shipping, defense) • 1971 – Amtrak • 1970s – Conrail (railroads including Penn Central) • 1984 – Continental Illinois Bank • 2008 – AIG • 2008 – Citigroup • 2008 – Fannie Mae • 2008 – Freddie Mac • 2009 – General Motors • 2009 – Chrysler

throwaway2676

Most of them, considering examples include Taiwan in TSMC Japan in NTT (strategic/mandated), TEPCO (rescue/ongoing) Singapore in Singtel, DBS, Singapore Airlines (strategic via Temasek) India in Vodafone Idea (rescue), SBI/LIC (PSUs) New Zealand in Air New Zealand (majority/strategic) France in EDF (100%), Renault, Air France-KLM, Orange, Airbus (strategic) Germany in Deutsche Telekom & Deutsche Post (via KfW, strategic), Volkswagen (Lower Saxony), Uniper/Lufthansa (rescue stakes) United Kingdom in NatWest (post-crisis sell-down), Rolls-Royce (golden share) And many more examples. Hell, the US already did this with GM and AIG.

pennylicker855

Cool, I can put my soon to be intel shares with my GM and AIG shares I've been waiting on since 2009. They should be in the mail any day now, right?

Traveler_6121

Here’s 10. 10 times the government invested in a business not counting, bread, cheese, milk, etc 1. Tesla (U.S.) – The Department of Energy gave Tesla a $465 million loan in 2010 to build its electric vehicle factory. Tesla repaid it early in 2013. 2. General Motors (U.S.) – During the 2008–2009 financial crisis, the U.S. government invested about $50 billion into GM, taking a large equity stake to prevent bankruptcy. 3. AIG (U.S.) – The government invested over $180 billion during the 2008 financial crisis to stabilize AIG, taking a majority stake until it was later sold back. 4. Solyndra (U.S.) – The government invested $535 million in loan guarantees in 2009 to support the solar panel company (which later failed). 5. Airbus (European Union governments) – France, Germany, and the UK invested billions over decades in Airbus via subsidies and launch aid, helping it compete with Boeing. 6. SpaceX (U.S.) – NASA awarded SpaceX billions in contracts starting in 2008, effectively investing in its development of rockets and space transport. 7. Bank of America (U.S.) – Received $45 billion through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) in 2008 to stabilize the financial system. 8. Royal Bank of Scotland (UK) – The UK government injected £45.5 billion in 2008, taking an 84% ownership stake. 9. Airlines (multiple countries, 2020 COVID-19 bailouts) – U.S. airlines like Delta, United, and American received billions in loans and grants; Germany took a 20% stake in Lufthansa. 10. Semiconductor Companies (U.S. CHIPS Act, 2022) – The U.S. government committed $52 billion in subsidies and grants for companies like Intel, TSMC, and Micron to build semiconductor plants in the U.S. How did they do? ⸻ 1. Tesla – DOE Loan (2010) • Result: Huge success. Tesla repaid the $465M loan early (2013), went on to become one of the world’s most valuable companies, and accelerated EV adoption. • Government outcome: Financially positive, and policy goal (EVs) advanced. ⸻ 2. General Motors – Bailout (2009) • Result: Success overall. GM avoided collapse, saved ~1 million jobs, returned to profitability. • Government outcome: U.S. sold its stake by 2013, losing ~$11B on the $50B investment, but policymakers considered it worthwhile to save the auto industry. ⸻ 3. AIG – Bailout (2008) • Result: Mixed to success. AIG stabilized, government gradually sold its stake at a profit. • Government outcome: U.S. invested ~$182B, recovered about $205B. Net gain ~$23B. ⸻ 4. Solyndra – Loan Guarantee (2009) • Result: Failure. Solyndra went bankrupt in 2011 despite $535M in federal support. • Government outcome: Big political controversy, but small relative to DOE’s wider clean energy loan portfolio (which overall turned a profit). ⸻ 5. Airbus – EU Support (ongoing) • Result: Long-term success. Airbus is now a global aerospace leader and Boeing’s biggest rival. • Government outcome: Strategic win for Europe, but led to WTO trade disputes with the U.S. over “illegal subsidies.” ⸻ 6. SpaceX – NASA Contracts (2008 onward) • Result: Huge success. NASA’s early contracts kept SpaceX afloat. It now dominates commercial launch markets and resupplies the ISS. • Government outcome: U.S. saved billions compared to traditional NASA contractors; helped ensure U.S. access to space after the Shuttle retired. ⸻ 7. Bank of America – TARP (2008) • Result: Success. Bank stabilized, repaid $45B by 2009–2010. • Government outcome: U.S. made a profit on dividends/interest. ⸻ 8. Royal Bank of Scotland – Bailout (2008) • Result: Mostly failure. RBS was effectively nationalized; its share price collapsed. UK taxpayers lost tens of billions as the government slowly sold down its 84% stake. • Government outcome: Big financial loss, though collapse was avoided. ⸻ 9. Airlines – COVID Bailouts (2020) • Result: Mixed. Bailouts kept airlines alive and workers paid during the crisis. U.S. loans mostly repaid, but taxpayers didn’t profit much. In Germany, Lufthansa’s rescue turned into a financial win — the government made ~€760M profit when it sold its stake in 2023. • Government outcome: Policy success (industry survival), with mixed financial outcomes depending on country. ⸻ 10. Semiconductors – CHIPS Act (2022 ongoing) • Result: Too early to tell. Billions committed to Intel, TSMC, Micron, Samsung for U.S. fabs. • Government outcome: No financial returns yet, but early signs suggest it’s achieving strategic goals (reshoring chip production, securing supply chains). , but policymakers considered it worthwhile to save the auto industry.:

Jordykins850

Subprime loans and the derivative trading, along with the increase in allowed leverage to trade more of them, are what caused the crash. The collapse of AIG is what really brought it down and that was because of insurance sold upon the products containing the bad loans.

Intrinomical

History would prove otherwise. * Joseph Cassano, head of AIG Financial Products (a key player in the credit default swap market), earned an estimated $34 million in bonuses in 2008. * Charles Prince III, who resigned as Citigroup CEO in late 2007, received a $10.4 million bonus. It's been pretty easily proven that when companies make more money, or in this case, had to be bailed out, it isn't distributed to the workers.

slo1111

It kept AIG from going insolvent.  I would say investors did quite well after the gov saved banks, auto manufacturers and insurance companies in 2009 

zxc123zxc123

Not saying this concept doesn't work well for the wider stock market. But I do wonder how well that line transfer to markets overall. Folks who bought during 2005-2007 and lost their homes? Lehman, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Washington Mutual, Countrywide IndyMac, CIT group, the airlines, the autos, etcetcetc Sure the MARKET survived. And sure you can pull up lots of charts of where companies survived and grew back. But a lot of companies died and were forgotten about. Many companies became nearly worthless or were bought up for dimes or pennies on the dollar with investors taking the losses. Some didn't die but do you think Citi bank will go back to $550+ by 2027? It fell to $0.97 per share, years of no dividend, and 2 decades later those investors haven't recouped even 1/5th of their original share value. And what about the people who lost their homes?

981flacht6

Yeah this isn't AIG. We're not talking about insurance. Building fabs is really insanely difficult. Once Wall Street takes in reality of the problem, they will hand the bags over to dumb retail. It'll probably happen by Tuesday afternoon.

doktorhladnjak

It's not really new. The federal government has bailed out AIG, GM, Chrysler, and numerous banks over the years

snoopingforpooping

This is the same shit they gave Obama for when taking stakes in AIG. Difference here is we aren’t in a global financial crisis

Odd_Drop_3899

In 2008 I turned $10k into $40k I was holding BOA at $2, ford at $1, AIG at $0.40 etc. I KNEW At that moment if I left that $40k in value stocks I’d have $1M by 2020. But I didn’t want $1M in 12 years, I wanted $1M at 25. I bought the worst pumps and dumps and it dwindled. Then I had some personal issues. Pulled $15k or so out of stocks and stopped paying trading. Silly.

anteatertrashbin

interference like the lack of the Dodd Frank act pre-2008? letting the banks and AIG do whatever they wanted was apparently not such a good idea for the American economy.

footlong24seven

AIG was 90% owned by Uncle Sam.

Reasonable_Roger

Maybe Hank should have let AIG go into bankruptcy in 08 and let the banks get fucked. Sure we would have been trading wampum for a few years but I think everything would have worked out ok.

rotoboro

These takes are so silly and a good example of why you shouldn’t listen to Reddit when it comes to politicized stocks. Did PLTR similarly buy their way into the NHS? BP, Airbus, 3M, Google, Amazon, Citibank, and AIG?

ImpromptuFanfiction

*Why can’t you bail me out like AIG? ARRRGHGGG*

ZHISHER

It’s different this time! There’s a global pandemic and society is shutting down! It’s different this time! This is a systemic failure-housing, Bear Stearns, Lehman, Fannie and Freddie, AIG, and auto! It’s different this time! Knickerbocker Trust just collapsed! It’s different this time! Tulip prices are crumbling!

GroundbreakingFox626

Too bid to fail. I think I remember this saying before. Oh, leman brother, AIG. on and on, they all said the same things. No such a thing.

ZombieRickyB

I wonder what AIG investors felt like before it collapsed. Probably similar to this

Few-Cycle-1187

In 2007 I got my first really good job. At AIG. I went from being on top of the world with a rising star to laid off and with a company on my resume that was toxic for a good 6 months. People were raging over the corporate bailouts. My first goal was to keep working no matter what the work was. I was working part-time jobs, odd jobs, jobs outside of my field just to stay employed. Throughout all of it I pumped more into my Traditional IRA (where I dumped my 401k after losing my AIG job). It was smart. Looking at some of my positions from then which I still hold some have increased by like 400%. At the time? It was a dark and bleak time. And I remember raging against the TV every time Obama said something like "It's going to get worse before it gets better." I was desperate for any sign of hope or encouragement. Just gotta keep charging forward.

WoodsmanAla

Probably. But also, look at AIG in 2007-2010 compared to today 😅

Mother_Dig_5829

😂😂 wait till UNHTards found out it’s the new AIG lmaoooooo

Common_Sense_2025

My post from another sub. Apologies to anyone who may have already seen it there: Started investing in 1994 and got serious about maxing out our retirement accounts in 1999. Womp, womp. It took until May 2007 for the S&P 500 to get back to the Sep 2000 level. Almost 7 years. And it stayed there more or less until January 2008. Eight glorious MONTHS after 7 years of struggling to get back up. And then, it just started to fall...a little bit. I remember one of my co-workers shushing everyone that by talking about the market we were jinxing it. It was fine. Tune out the noise. I worked in corporate finance so I was immersed in it. I couldn't just tune it out. Indy-Mac bank failed that summer, a sign of things to come. September 2008 was a lot like March 2020 in how fast things went south. My dates aren't probably all right but pretty close. Sep 7, 2008 Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taken over by the FHFA. Sep 15, Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. Sep 15, Bank of America agreed to buy Merrill Lynch which was about to collapse. Sep 16, the Fed bailed out AIG. Sep 17, the short term lending markets froze up. My employer had variable rate short term loans that reset daily and they were resetting at 12% or in some cases, not resetting so we had to repay them. The government stepped in to insure money market accounts because a couple had broke the buck. Sep 26, Washington Mutual, the largest savings and loan in the country, went under due to a run on the bank. JP Morgan Chase took them over. Wachovia was bought out by Citibank before it failed. All through the month, the government was working on bail out packages. But the various parties could not agree on what to do. We were in the middle of election season. They eventually passed something. And that was just in the US. It was going on worldwide. By October 2008, the S&P 500 was down 42% from the previous October. And it kept going. By March 2009, it was down 56% from October 2007. The job losses- Unemployment got to 10% and home foreclosures were massive. You had to be in a coma to tune out that noise. We beefed up our emergency fund but we kept buying every two weeks. We resigned ourselves to working for the rest of our lives. We were not alone in that so there was some solace. And we were actually lucky to HAVE jobs, so many people around us were being laid off. It took until early 2013 to get back to October 2007 levels. 7 years.

Rivercitybruin

Yup... Really bad disclosure and risk structure Remember reading (before crisis) that GS and MS would not do any more CDS hedging with AIG due to massive existing positions.. And look what happened And then Wall Street firms,disclose on conference call "we have $37 billion sup-prime exposure we didn't disclose" The,early fraud (NINJA loans) was horrific.. Early meaning it precipitated the crisis

AnselmoHatesFascists

I bought all the banks, Citi, BAC and even AIG because those were all beaten down on talk of getting nationalized by the Obama administration. In retrospect, complete crazy talk. But it was a great example of when they say that buying when everyone seems to be panicking is a fast track to building wealth.

CrusingTheBlock

AIG stock had it's ATH at $1,651/share back in 2000.... It's currently trading at $80/share. It's not always gauranteed that a stock will return to ATH.

ButterPotatoHead

Because past performance is no guarantee of future results. If you go back over time the top 5-10 stocks in the S&P 500 has changed and many of those that were doing well 10-20 years ago are not doing well any more, some of them are gone. GE for example was the #1 company in the S&P 500 in 1995, 2000 and 2005 and it has gone nowhere in about 25 years. AIG was also a top 10 company for 10+ years and almost went out of business.

WestBeginning3564

This is a two year hold provided the industry doesn't collapse like when AIG went under

Brave-Cash-845

Key in Countrywide, Lehman Brothers, AIG and being narrated by Matt Damon…. Totally saw this documentary and lived through it…let’s not forget this again

brandonmcgritle

Oh really…? Tell that to BKNG, or CitiGroup, or AIG, or MSI, or ZG, or SE….

Life-is-beautiful-

Can’t resist saying this. Not Reddit recommended though. I was new to this country and wanted to kick start “long term” investments. So, in 2006, I picked 3 companies that cannot fail based on recommendations. Nokia, Lehman Brothers and AIG. Rest is history.

ensui67

Yes, then you are older than me. I was there, trading AIG at $2, BofA at $5. I can only study the dotcom bubble and have learned much from people smarter than I. This is a bull market and bull markets are easy.

SPQR0027

Hold up. Let's all check that chart again. [Chart link.](https://www.macrotrends.net/2577/sp-500-pe-ratio-price-to-earnings-chart) * The Dot com indexes peaked in March 2000 and the S&P PE only hit 33.52 prior to then (in Mar 1999). It was only well **after** the market peaked and was dropping when the PE hit 46.50 in Dec 2001. (By the way, Dec 2001 is after September 11th, after Enron collapsed, and after Worldcom collapsed for context.) * For 2007-2009 the S&P peak was Oct 2007 with the PE at 23.41 that month. From then until Lehman collapses, AIG gets bailed out, and US Congress has the TARP votes (Sept-Oct 2008) the S&P PE only hit 27.92. The PE only runs up into triple digits **long after** the market has crashed in the first half of 2009 (bottom was Mar 2009).

SPQR0027

Moral hazard contributed to the 2007-2009 collapse. GM should have died. Same with AIG. Tough medicine, but facts.

blabla1733

It seems like you did okay for the first couple of years. If you have a time machine, go back to 2007 and go all in on AIG. 😈

datajunkie9382

This is make believe shit. You must be too young to remember how lazy fair played out in practice. Here is the short version: \+ Rich people buy politicians to remove regulations under the guise of "Free markets" \+ Rich people then do massively stupid shit which blows up in their face \+ Rich people then go back to those politicians with their hands out and say give us money or else \+ Politicians hand over lots of money to rich people to keep things going \+ See Savings and Loan, Intel, Boeing, AIG, Goldman Sachs, Bears Stearns, Citigroup, every mining company to ever exist, California electricity. \+ You can say, "But, but that is not what I want, it shouldn't work like that", it fucking does. Liberal democracy only works in theory, in practice it is a revolving door of hand outs to rich people who control the system. Look at the BBB for the latest version.

atropear

Yes but what they leave out is that AIG was founded by an intelligence operation. And so it probably was still run by it. They were the worst businessmen in all of history if you go by how many times over it went bankrupt.

FarrisAT

AIG?

isinkthereforeiswam

AIG thought they were too big to fail. They were bailed out, but they never recovered back to their glory days. There's always another insurance company waiting to take an ailing insurance company's place.

nostratic

>How do you take into consideration the loooong-term / "end-life” of a stock when investing for retirement? as a general rule stocks rarely stay on top for more than 10-20 years, either top of their sector or top of the overall market globally or for any given nation. Rob Arnott has done some research on this topic. https://ioandc.com/rob-arnott-sell-the-top-dogs/ many formerly dominant companies are now out of business or small cap/micro-caps (Sears; Eastman-Kodak; NL Industries; Foot Locker is the descendent of Woolworths which was once a leading retailer). or companies can be dominant, slip dramatically, and then come back to major positions (Exxon, AIG). Nobody knows for certain.

Humaniac99

How come AIG gets to have 25 bil when they fail and go bankrupt but when i fail and go bankrupt I get collection calls from bank of america

farmerbsd17

AIG

Fragrant_Witness_713

I still wear my Arthur Andersen baseball hat sometimes. And the funny things is that I was on the way to a meeting with them and AIG when the shit hit fan. I was on the Acela from DC to NYC. The meeting got cancelled halfway there! haha

Excellent_Ability793

AIG

Bracer-Phoenix

AIG

ArmedAwareness

Look up a little know stock “AIG” - look at their price right before 2008

Suspicious-Town-7688

AIG back in the day

Fragrant_Witness_713

As a sales pro I have never fully understood its valuation. The only crm tools that actually increase revenue are ones for call centers. Every other industry does just as well with old school CRM and decent excel spreadsheets. I say this as someone who has worked for companies such as IBM Global, Accenture, AIG, etc in high level Bus Dev roles. HAVING said that... good luck

shibbledoop

AIG? They are definitely still around

OrangeOld8947

The company started in 2003, and just went public about 4 years ago mainly focusing on rewiring (faster speed, different kinds of computers and network, and mainly built for companies wanting to actually use AI technology to help their businesses run better and more efficient not run them like the new fads, or that AI is a commodity, LLM’s are the actual commodities, Palantir has the huge American insurance underwriting company AIG, fully allowing AI agent bots pull real time data and being able to offer insurance underwriting claims to potential clients under an hours time when it used to take the smartest MIT or Harvard Grads over3 weeks to collect data, run them through situational algorithms, run them through outlyer tests and situation, and 3 weeks later finally have an underwriting insurance number for them. They retired Cleveland Center Hospitals like they were rebuilt from the ground up and just inked a Billion dollar military deal with NATO! They have no debt, 6 Billion in cash money & the CEO said today that they are having issues keeping up with the demand. Try and buy a few hundred shares and by the time you retire those shares will be worth a couple million! YouTube has a ton of videos trying to explain their technolog, but the video they put out on project Maven & Titan are mind blowing just in the Military fields and the company software can improve any company in any industry! It’s already up in Space with Musk and his Starlink satellites! Palantir made their software so it can be built on and built out, by new coders, or machine learning ones! Their double and triple dipping! RB

DaemonTargaryen2024

> Is there any reason not to buy “safe” individual stocks? GE, GM, Kodak, Sears, AIG… all of these were considered “safe” individual stocks, until they weren’t. > I’ve done a good bit of research and it seems like they won’t be losing value any time soon. Define “good bit of research”. There are seasoned professionals Wall Street analysts who get calls wrong all the time. What skills or information do you have which they don’t? >Obviously something bad could happen but if I don’t have crazy money in individual stocks is there any reason not to buy them? Should I just keep it all in index funds? If you want to use some “play money” at say <5% of your portfolio, that’s up to you. Any more and you’re experiencing significant [concentration risk](https://www.finra.org/investors/insights/concentration-risk)

DaMan619

https://home.treasury.gov/data/troubled-asset-relief-program >As of September 30, 2023, the total amount disbursed for TARP programs was $443.5 billion and OFS collected $425.5 billion (or $443.1 billion if including the $17.5 billion in proceeds from the additional Treasury American International Group, Inc. [AIG] shares) through repayments, sales, dividends, interest, and other income. After considering the interest expense of $13.1 billion, the net cost of TARP programs was $31.1 billion. >>[While Congress authorized $700 billion for TARP, Treasury utilized far less than that. The TARP actual lifetime cost was approximately $31.1 billion, **most of which was attributable to the program's efforts to help struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure.**](https://home.treasury.gov/data/troubled-assets-relief-program/about-tarp). Last part is interesting because Jon Steward would grill politicians why we couldn't bailout the homeowners instead the banks and TIL we did.

WinningWatchlist

Stock will freaking explode if the government lets it leave the conservatorship, most companies that have been bailed out by the government have their growth potential dead (banks being an exception) due to common shares being typically suppressed and diluted (look at AIG's stock price from 2000 to now). So TL;DR Fannie/Freddie Mac will moon because the government will let it be for-profit again.

Individual-Set5722

When was the last time the chickens came home to roost all at once on a single stock? This is reminding me like AIG for some reason.

GnosticWizard

Here’s some other great stock picks: Enron Leman Brothers Worldcom Silicon Valley Bank AIG South Sea Company Barings Bank Bank of United States I’m sure United Health will be fine. Godspeed!

puukkeriro

AIG was subject to a major government bailout that diluted shareholders. Not the same.

H3rbert_K0rnfeld

AIG knows

Careful-Rent5779

I guess you where still in high school or perphaps sporting diapers in 2008. But the government stepped in and kept AIG from going under in 2008. AIG was only a property insurer. NOT the largest healthcare insurer/reinsurer in the the US. History doesn't always repeat itself, but it often rhythms.

Careful-Rent5779

Google: AIG 2008....

Careful-Rent5779

UHN is not going to die anymore the AIG did.

liverpoolFCnut

It doesn't matter who the President is. Every one of these multi-billion dollar companies, especially the "too big to fail" ones always get away with just a slap on the wrist. What happened to the C-level of Bear Stearns, AIG, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers etc? Or for that matter Wells Fargo more recently? They'll pay the fine and move on.

rriggsco

So which ones are Bear Stearns and AIG?

redditmodsRrussians

AIG II: Luigi’s Revenge

ArmedAwareness

AIG was “to big to fail” too, I mean they got bailed out by the government but just look at their chart lol

Objective_Chest_1697

The one constant is change.  Top 10 US Companies in 2005 (by market cap): Exxon Microsoft, Citigroup, GE, Walmart, Bank of America, Johnson n Johnson, Pfizer, Intel, & AIG- yes AIG Only Microsoft remains.  The top 10 companies with the best 10 year returns are posted below, and the results were pretty surprising- only two or three known names, at least to me.  Many were pretty mundane (as far as business category goes) and surprised me. I would assume all tech, and that wasn't the case at all.  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-performing-stocks-over-past-211922467.html

Modo44

Sometimes you actually know the shitstorm is coming. Like when Goldman tricked AIG into insuring its shit subprime business, just intime before it hit the fan.

Bekabam

Majority of this thread is delusional on UNH. You think AIG was too big to fail in '08? Not even close to the scale of UNH. If UNH shutters, people don't lose their house or their jobs, they will die. * Claim denial rate goes to 100% * Hospitals may cover some procedures with the expectation of a bailout, but not everything * Optum would close too, dropping Rx fills Look, society hates them, doctors hate them, and I hate them but that doesn't matter. In the current system, they are entrenched and they will be propped up faster than anyone else if they start going to shit.

byzantinetoffee

Ok, but look. To cite just one of many likely effects, it seems realistic to assume that tariffs will negatively impact revenues for businesses both large and small, in a number of ways. This is likely to lead to layoffs, which is likely to lead to people selling assets, not investing in 401ks, and so on. Eventually enough money is withdrawn from the markets that it has a cascading effect. Look at the GFC. There was basically a yearlong buildup before it was simply too unsustainable and the house of cards collapsed with AIG and Lehman etc. The point is that the stock market cannot remain disconnected from the economy forever.