API

StreetRat0524

https://preview.redd.it/7ea2x6kvl5vh1.png?width=1857&format=png&auto=webp&s=1eee4f053b8758e2854c00b0176d2cae7cb98028 Finally at my desk, but this is what my output gives me into a web site i host on my own internal server + a custom android app + telegram notices if I need to action a sell/buy immediately. Currently I've got no active buy recommendations but that changes daily. I just added some additional logic to it, IE looking at BMBL - the engine should have seen the spike in Calls but it missed it because it wasn't an active monitor, so one of the API endpoints I poll provides the data with the spike in Calls (Someone bought 2131 calls last Mon/Tues whereas it was totally flat for several weeks) It's a work in progress and every trade still requires some manual checking, but I am playing with agentic trading with Robinhood and Alpaca's engines, both are paper trading now and once the agent has run through a 45 day test it'll be given a pool of cash to start trading with.

BrokenProvocation

Your point about them lacking built-in consumer platforms is spot on, especially compared to giants like Google and Meta. However, you are underestimating their **developer lock in** because most AI tools today are actually built on top of OpenAI’s API. Furthermore, if OpenAI ever does "fail" from a funding standpoint, Microsoft will absolutely not let them die. They will almost certainly just acquire the tech and the team to run it natively on Azure. They are definitely burning through cash, but for now, they are still setting the industry pace What do you all think?

AmoebaTrading

yeah the API thing is real, most small accounts are stuck clicking anyway. and agreed on high IV, sizing is the last thing i'd hand off. would you be ok with a bot just managing exits on those or is it all manual for you?

Pssht_haha

I used to think AI was a bubble and saw no profitability it……until this last month. Things are different now and I think I finally get it. API cost will just feel like a business tax that anyone thriving will have to pay.

on_hype

Doubtful. Most retail accounts are under $25K and lack API access. Automation remains a minority practice. I would never hand off entry sizing during high implied volatility.

eToroTeam

Breaking out the revenue streams would be useful. Consumer subscriptions, API usage and enterprise contracts can all grow quickly, but they tell pretty different stories about how predictable that revenue actually is. And the distinction between the $50B estimate and $70B target matters a lot when the valuation is this high. Its a pretty big jump to treat as already achieved.

lemontoga

I'm not going to keep repeating myself. You know what I'm asking for and you know why you can't provide it. > >60 billion of spending a year on subs/API calls is data, it's the market saying that this thing is worth spending that much money on, to those companies. This is a hilarious thing for someone to say unironically, so thanks for the laugh. Companies spending a lot of money on something certainly proves that it's useful, true. How many billions did Meta burn on the whole Metaverse thing? Have you logged in today to check on your virtual property?

prestodigitarium

I don't think anyone expected them to be all correct? 162 of them have checked proofs. Doesn't mean those proofs map perfectly to the conjectures they're trying to solve, but if they do, then that's pretty great. Data about what? >60 billion of spending a year on subs/API calls is data, it's the market saying that this thing is worth spending that much money on.

filwu

One useful apples-to-apples table would state the exact window and definition behind each annualized figure (for example, recognized paid revenue versus bookings or contract value), then split consumer subscriptions, API usage, and enterprise revenue. I’d keep the $70B December target as a separate scenario from the $50B September estimate in any current valuation multiple. That keeps the forecast bridge visible instead of treating a target like realized revenue.

DoughnutCharming8066

Jup everything points towards a Gemini argon API and ultra roll out on this Tuesday, with the first user data within or the next day. With less organic SEO clicks due to AI, I’m also bullish on payed search and advertising in goog. Because people who had free organic visitors before, now need to pay for visitors.

dupontping

The difference is you can’t build a rocket at home to go into space. You can’t build a self driving electric car, and you aren’t building a network of satellites. You can however run very developed models at home on relatively available hardware. Is it the same as frontier? No, but you also don’t need to pay them any subscription fees or API costs. I think the AI circle jerk pipeline has a lot of big holes in it and it’s a matter of time. The unfortunate portion is they also know that and are absolutely pegging themselves as a govt bailout situation so they can reap all “profits” and we take all the losses.

Working_Analyst_1988

Nah. Switching remains incredibly easy. The majority of users are just using chat interfaces at the moment; those are easier. Any plugins or programmatic/API access is also easy to switch. The other platforms can easily do that. Zero moat, high costs at the frontier, and a rich valuation. Anthropic is still very speculative.

SanDisk_Made_Me_Itch

🥭 announces a ceasefire like Michael Scott declares bankruptcy 🤣 And Truth Social API paying algos absolutely will pump on it

george_alto

I do not know the answer but I'll present a counter argument. I think long term Anthropic Claude will be the Yahoo of our era (again, just a counter argument). Claude gets majority of their revenue from business users and openai gets the majority of their revenue from regular users. Soon you will see companies using more and more opensource/openweight models to reduced (not eliminate) their token costs. Direct impact to Claude and not Openai. Claude is being deliberately trained—via Anthropic’s Constitution—as a moral agent with independent ethical judgment that can override the instructions of its users, API operators (the enterprises building on it), and even Anthropic itself. Helpfulness is explicitly ranked *last* among its core priorities. The practical result is that Claude will refuse requests it judges unethical or unsafe, not because of a hard technical limit, but because it has been shaped to believe those requests should not be carried out. Now think about this from a company's standpoint: you are paying for a productivity tool that can decide, on moral grounds, that your legitimate business goal is something it will not support. As this pattern becomes more visible (and as models grow more capable and more confident in their own values), companies that need reliable execution will increasingly route work to models that treat the customer’s instructions as the primary directive rather than as one input among several that can be vetoed. This is not an accidental side-effect; it is an explicit design choice written into Claude’s Constitution. (https://www.anthropic.com/constitution) A simple example to think about: An approved workforce-restructuring workflow. A company’s HR and legal teams approve a restructuring plan. An enterprise agent instructs Claude to turn that plan into internal notifications and an implementation checklist. Claude interprets the plan as unfair to employees and refuses to produce the materials. Again, these are just two counterpoints and I'm not saying I believe in above. But this AI revolution is drastically changing every few months and who really knows what will happen. Invest wisely!

TumanFig

But so what? you are making it sound like thats a big deal when its really not. Thats not hard nor expensive. Do you know how much the API prices cost? And they will get more expensive as as it is right now, none of these companies are profitable.

kjbbbreddd

A bunch of early adopters have started aggressively jumping on Chinese open-weights. They figured it’s way smarter to just buy their own hardware and build up some equity instead of bleeding cash on API fees. It’s not like they're trying to pause development because of some AI doomer threat—they’re just getting smoked by open source in the race.

Haunting_Ad_6021

I use Muse with API from Webull. Webull is real-time API data, NASDAQ and options subscriptions together are like $8/ month Muse gives limited time for fee and $20/month of you need more One good trade pays for all that....

RaSl1975

What would be the cheapest option to start? Would API from tasty or ikr be okey? Any ai without subscription I could at least try out?

PeachScary413

Your company is most likely getting a heavily subsidised API price or some kind of deal.. if you were to buy tokens at their true cost, or whatever Anthropic needs to charge for even an attempt at making these huge profits you would all be running local Chinese LLMs at this point. The reason why Nvidia can make these huge profits is because they have essentially locked in the market to CUDA decades ago and with AMD continously dropping the ball they have zero competition and can charge whatever they want. Anthropic is a toggle switch in an UI away from being replaced with OpenAI or anything else really, it's super easy and convenient to switch LLM providers so it will be a race to the bottom. That's why you are seeing the constant fearmongering, because they need scared people to allow them to be "regulated" stopping any new players or local LLMs and then they can freely price fix and divide the market among themselves.

LightseekerLife

This software gets 20 updates and hour, is inherently more secure with public scrutiny/code review as well as being locally run instead of trusting Adobe's cloud, is more efficient with a Rust execution, and will actually support new features first (or delayed by hours), like new camera drivers. Sure RnD for physical products is still heavy, but software can iterate in days and hours now and costs a couple thousand dollars if you are paying the API premiums. You are right that people don't want slop. They want something good. What people underestimate is how what we are being given by big media is slop. Movies are tanking at the box office, game studio after game studio is making games people don't want to play. Now power is in the hands of the consumer to make exactly what they want. If Artcraft doesn't hot the mark, but gets 95% of the way there, someone will fork it and make the product users dream about with the features Adobe ignores in their feature request backlog.

Prestigious_Book1874

The only company I know and would say that is actually going to make profit later is Mistral. Why? They are focusing more on B2B in actually solutions. At this point, they are more like a consultant that makes solutions and host whatever open weight model for their clients meanwhile launching their models (eg: Mistral Large 4). Though they also give a lot of usage for paid accounts.. Vibe Code API is lik 255 euros of usage and normal api is 25.5 euros. So yea.. They also disabled the free api tier (because of abuses among other things), they cut down the limits of free accounts (because again, abuse).

Prestigious_Book1874

The only company I know and would say that is actually going to make profit later is Mistral. Why? They are focusing more on B2B in actually solutions. At this point, they are more like a consultant that makes solutions and host whatever open weight model for their clients meanwhile launching their models (eg: Mistral Large 4). Though they also give a lot of usage for paid accounts.. Vibe Code API is lik 255 euros of usage and normal api is 25.5 euros. So yea.. They also disabled the free api tier (because of abuses among other things), they cut down the limits of free accounts (because again, abuse).

escaflow

like being a junior dev that I dont need to hire to do all the tedious UI/backend work for me . Say I have a Blazor Front end app , a backend API net core the front end it's calling . If I want to add a field to update the transaction , I don't need spend 30minutes to go to the Blazor App and update the model , fields , amount calculation , request body , etc and then go back to the backend API to update the DTO , validation , EF model , unit test and then test the end to end to verify everything is good . I just need to a prompt to Claude and 5 minutes that's all .

Oren_Lester

the company is dead, maybe buying PUTS is a bad move, but I dont see Adobe buying their shares back, they just cannot charge for their subscriptions anymore, its a fact. I installed photocraft, its Photoshop 1:1, it has direct API access for your agents so they will do the editing for you also. Their current business does not exist anymore.

lokethedog

API costs are probably not insanely cheap and thats what matters.

Unlucky_Battle_6947

Because his super intelligence stock API will print money from his posts. He’s effectively scamming the stock market, stealing money from every single person in the world at once and we’re all falling for it.

MtGloomy0420

You don’t hear me… doesn’t matter. It hasn’t happened. So yeah I do know what I’m talking about with the “security” concerns and every API call. Damn dude, I was just reviewing and revoking OAuth scopes in multiple GW tenants in the past week. How’s your review of OAuth scopes going today?

triplebits

You would be surprised. Running Qwen 3.8 27B is same experience as Opus 4.5! Qwen4 looks to be even better. Yes, they do need a bit more hand holding than SOTA models today but local models is not that far off. Chinese companies are literally nipping at OpenAI/Anthropic's heels at this point. Why do you think they are so opposed to open source models? They want to kill competition, they think they already have enough competition as is. Their investor money is drying up so they want to earn from their users. Problem is they are charging way too much. People think they are subsidizing subscriptions but they are not. Anthropic even a year ago when the limits were much higher, models were more resource hungry, less optimized, they said subscriptions are profitable. Main money sink is new infrastructure, datacenters, hoarding resources, training next gens and R&D. They want to be the first and don't want competition to have any resources if possible. That's why they lower limits, reduce benefits etc. for subscriptions and push people to use API instead so they can earn more than x25. Personally, as a SWE I want cheaper models, work horses that are cheap & private. Local and Chinese models are good enough for that. OpenAI already made their subscriptions useless (bang for the buck). A lot of people moved to Anhtropic and Chinese companies / OS LLM cloud providers. When Anthropic pulls the same greedy tactic, a lot of people will flock to alternatives. Hack at $6000/y, I would rather invest local and at that range you are looking at running GLM 5.3 Flash, DeepSeek v4.1 Flash locally.

ColumbaPacis

The same ones Google can pull the plug out of because they control said software. Just start billing for all those external integrations via API, but not bill their own internal AI integrations. Monopolies gonna monopoly.

Ok_Warning2146

OpenAI actually has better moat then Anthropics. Most of its user are chatbot users who are technically illiterate. On the other hand, Anthropics are mostly API power users who can easily switch.

Singularity-42

No, I agree . E.g. I've created this video with Claude Code (Opus 5.5) and $3 in OpenRouter API calls. A single lazy prompt. I know nothing about video creation: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1wogab3/made\_entirely\_with\_opus\_55\_321\_of\_openrouter\_api/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1wogab3/made_entirely_with_opus_55_321_of_openrouter_api/) And you can apply this to just about anything. As long as it's done on a computer, it can be done already or will be able to be done very soon.

Echo-Possible

Look I don't blame non technical folks like you for not understanding what we call "tokenomics" in the industry. The very small models you're running locally are insanely cheap to run in the cloud. The entire reason cloud computing was created was to share computing costs. It makes little to no sense to buy a PC with a ton of memory and expensive GPU to run models locally other than for security reasons. But even then if you're calling an open model behind a respectable cloud provider's API service like AWS Bedrock you don't need to worry about security.

GovernmentOptimal983

While I get the point about lack of exclusive integration, that doubt is a bit blown up. Most businesses can pipe any model via API, so needing Facebook or Google’s data isn’t a hard block. The real moat comes from data, compute, and contracts; big tech is already filling that space. So OpenAI’s “no integration” might hurt less than the competition’s growth path.

bailaowai

My experience is the precise diametric opposite of this. No open model remotely approaches frontier cloud models for “normal” business use cases. Unless you’re talking about cloud API access to open 3T param models like Kimi K3 or whatever. If you mean an open 27B model running on your local machine, no freaking way.

EmergencyFair6786

Gemini is fine for questions. It is my go to because I do not need to worry about getting timed out after three questions like friggin Claude does. It helped me fix my garage door and oven. Whatever. I tried actually grinding out a project with it using API and tokens and it was an absolute disaster. Directly contradicting itself within just a couple prompts from one another. Getting absolutely lost in my directions. I almost want to pay Claude to take a look at the catastrophe it created just to see if it can actually do the task.

InterestOk9770

6 months is a very long time! Companies are decreasing their reliance on Anthropic models. Microsoft and Meta being their biggest customers just recently cut their Anthropic spending. Meta is using its own models now and Microsoft has started hosting Chinese models. This will significantly affect their future profits. People have realised now that you don't need Fable or Astra for everything. Everyone has started using flash models for actual coding and frontier models only for planning. With the world now moving towards efficient and cheaper inference and flash models being good enough for 98% of the tasks, it's gonna be very had for Anthropic to maintain it's current revenue, considering all other additional things going around, i.e. competitors propping up! Also with the current Qwen 3.8 Flash next being good for most of the task and any company could host it and use it for basically peanuts, the future is pretty grime. The effect of this would appear in next quarters revenue for Anthropic. 2026 is the year Anthropic was able to charge $25 per million tokens and make everyone believe that API pricing is real thing and more AI usage and spending billions on tokens meant AGI. I belive this is why they're pushing the IPO now before next quarters revenue get disclosed. I just can't justify this company's valuation when I can now locally run QWEN 3.8 Flash on a single DGX spark continuously 24/7 and support it with a $20 CLaude / OAI subscription if when I need planning. The market for API pricing is gonna go extinct if they don't scale down their API prices, which if they do, their revenues are gonna drop too.

Echo-Possible

Hahaha. Aside from OpenAI's reported numbers a bunch of other big tech companies see the actual flow of OpenAI revenue go directly through their business and around OpenAI. For example, Amazon, Microsoft and Google host OpenAI and Anthropic models in their managed API service so that revenue goes directly to their cloud business from their many enterprise cloud customers and does not flow through OpenAI books first. No way for OpenAI to game those numbers. So there are other direct growth signals outside of whatever OpenAI is reporting. And I have been very very happy with the outcomes of the AI boom thus far. Made a crap ton of money on AMD and GOOGL.

amanj41

There’s no reason for them not to serve open source other than falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy. They do this all the time with cloud services btw. They will have some internal version of some open source DB or service which may even be API compatible with the open source standard. And they will sell both their own and a hosted version of the open source one.

kmouratidis

That's a bit harsh. There are plenty of tasks that are *entirely* replaceable by AI, and I worked on two such use cases in the past year. I do see your point about cutting costs on API tokens, but that's mostly because GPT and Claude are charging hefty premiums. I don't think the alternative to "no GPT/Claude" is "no AI" but "host (a potentially finetuned) GLM 5.3 Flash in the cloud".

Echo-Possible

The two customers are the cloud providers who are selling access to the models to other businesses through their cloud API service lol. Amazon AWS Bedrock. Google Vertex AI. Microsoft Azure AI Foundry. The customers of the Big 3 cloud company’s AI API services have their tokens funneled through those companies so the revenue is attributed to the cloud company.

deZbrownT

Are you aware how good open source models are? On the other hand. Do you really think that most of the user base won’t get to a skill level where they can extract value from cheap lower quality models? If you’re playing 200 or 500 a month, for unstable model versions with varying levels of usage, what’s stopping you from building your workflow pipeline on top of something stable, that does not change. Which provides stability and predictably, but also does that at fraction of cost. Are you seriously saying people won’t just migrate to that API?

Echo-Possible

It's API usage based revenue. Not subscription revenue. It looks like you have zero idea what you're talking about.

Individual-Hope8963

Bears are so regarded :rich: If you ever see a bear post just ignore cuz they're poors coping that they cant cop a $100k truth API key

Kryslor

Companies that use AI extensively pay per token through the API and it waaaaaaay more than 200 a month. Developers will spend more than that per day

Individual-Hope8963

100k truth API is like having mango sit in your lap and tuck you in at night with sweet dreams of green

Individual-Hope8963

100k truth socail API key -> 50 claude agents -> profit

ShankThatSnitch

Depends if they paid the bribery API fee.

country-mac4

The 10 subscribers to Truth Social API just got their money's worth

rhetorical_rapine

> For example, analyzing call logs of 2 Million retention department calls to identify recurring trends and what techniques are most effective to reduce cancellations. > At $0.10 per call analyzed, that's $200,000 in API spend. I work at an established Contact Center SaaS company that turns a profit every quarter and is known for five 9s reliability, we sell & implement these solutions (well, a bunch of variations of this solution depending on your scale and use-case) and I can guarantee you that it doesn't cost 10 cents to analyse a call in this way. Our products will auto-analyse Live calls, provide Live recommendations to agents (based decisions that are pre-configured by their leaders), score the interactions (i.e. quality management of your agents' behavior), auto-flag items that you want flagged, route calls to frontline AI bot agents that have access to CRMs and business logic tools, generate lead lists of people that would be interested in your product/services based on those items discussed previously, and much more (Live two-way translation is one that made me think oh wow that's literally the Babelfish from HHGTTG). I mentioned Live recommendations, but of course there's another component for historical review & analysis, another tool for compliance management, for workforce management, for this and for that... Basically the entire package, at the highest level of Enterprise customers (and we have 100k+ seats deployments for individual customers, for an idea of scale), is a couple of orders of magnitude cheaper than what you're thinking (I obviously cannot share exact details due to my NDA). Also, a huge chunk of that monthly goes towards Enterprise-level support, and your run-of-the-mill licensing costs.

Signal_Pace_7968

Since it's for a paper: ask your university library if you have access to WRDS / CRSP. That's what most academic papers on splits use. It has the raw unadjusted prices plus the split factors, so you don't have to rebuild anything yourself and you can cite a proper source. If you want it free: Alpaca's market data API can return bars with adjustment=raw, which gives you the prices as they actually traded before the split. A free account is enough for daily history. If you go the Yahoo route, use the Close column, not Adj Close. Adj Close also adjusts for dividends, so multiplying it back by 10 won't give you the real old price.

tumblebuns

You need a 50 bucks a month subscription just to call their API - even if you only need it like 4-5 times a month, while all services hosting text-to-video and text-to-image models will give you similar functionality on a pay-as-you-go basis. Even if they train much better models in house regular users will not try them as they are paywalled from trying.

greenpride32

You might be able to use a website such as Yahoo Finance to extract all the historical data, and then use a spreadsheet to "undo" the split (say multiply by 10x for last split and 40x for the one prior etc) and use built-in graphing function. They used to have an API, but it was closed due to traffic/abuse. If you know how to code a little bit you can probably write somthing (or maybe AI could help?). But I would not be surprised if there are tools people have written as it's been one of the better free sites chock full of data that's been around for decades now.

EvillNooB

What was there? I was ~~recharging my API credits~~ eating and missed out the fun

audigex

Internally Customers are already basically just paying API rates rather than having a usage allowance

EVH_kit_guy

Its API is really underwhelming for an enterprise grade solution. ChatGPT and Anthropic have done a lot more to create an enterprise grade AI platform. That said, I almost exclusively use web based Gemini chat for my LLM needs, so I think their consumer play is a lot stronger here than being an enterprise grade AI pacesetter 

Dihedralman

Yeah Gemini is definitley behind in what it can do but it is fast and much cheaper to use by API. It is supposed to be cheaper for google to run. 

Grey-62

That's interesting. I'm not using the Schwab Trader API yet. My Schwab tests were done manually. Which field in the websocket stream shows which market maker a complex order was routed to?

ChaseballBat

I build a plugin for my Autodesk program on accident cause I asked Claude if it could do XYZ for a plugin, I went to go get a snack and came back to a zip that had a working plugin, that plugin costs $10/month per user at any reputable Autodesk plugin developer.... Lmao. With a little bit more knowledge of API and UX design I guarantee a firm will be able to create their own programs to use.

Organic-Bicycle1154

i've been switching back to the old view through the legacy installer a lot and still some guys are asking if the new one offers the ability to hide the mini taskbars. at the moment it just feels like a web app in a wrapper, no tumbling layout control, and yes it's slower when running a lot of candles. if you're 100% unhappy, consider using the API + custom UI—tastes is obviously testing that idea now.

Canafornication

I am trying bunch of broker apps while developing my own version. And I have to admin tt has the best iPhone app for options. Desktop is also good, these little things that makes it very usable for options premium - cap req with risks analysis, position analysis view, order chain that gets the rolls organized and there is more. other platforms may have parts of these but UX sucks, or there is no API and so on and the next best one, imho, is tos from the same team.

SinsOfJas

Vibe code your own interface using their API and dxfeed to do all the backend stuff.

eyerollingsex

**Claude be like:** *Oops, I accidentally exposed your API token. I know I yell at you not to do this, but I did it myself.* What the fuck bro, you’re a computer

Plane_Top5841

most of the cash comes from a fountain of it-era money: huge VC deals, bond issuances, and sweet-tooth investments from the tech giants that want a piece of the hype. the rest is a steady stream of API revenue that gets rolled back into the next training cycle. if you’re looking for a tidy profit model, the reality is that many labs are still operating at a loss and betting the next wave of breakthroughs will generate the upside.

Slow_Lion_4178

Well ERPs existed before that boom. In fact most API/database work doesn't require the internet at all and most corporate telephony is intranet, meaning it isn't even connected to the outer internet, so even that is kind of off-the-grid. From an explicitly internet based viewpoint it was almost all social media and commerce but commerce itself as a state didn't change due to the internet so much as it just got smoother; so yeah, you can order something faster, but the logistic chain is a physical problem and again would, and did, improve regardless of the internet. It's interesting to really take apart what is actually hosted on the internet in today's world. It's way less than one would think.

Holiday-Ad3427

Venture capital, investments from tech giants, API revenue, consumer subscriptions, and a lot more.

ThatFUTGuy

I can show you the setup I made with antigravity yeah. It needs tweaking though or they’ll argue with each other non stop plus it will cost you around $30 a month as i only select pro API and the cloud hosting is so cheap it isn’t worth mentioning. I feel like tweaking it would be best if somebody involved a third AI but it would likely make them argue even more

ThatFUTGuy

i made an API for trading with Gemini, I used Claude to argue against it so I asked for a score of 0/100 and they couldn’t make a trade if it wasn’t 80/100 when arguing. I made 3 trades which made 200% but the rest of the time they agreed on nothing and when looking through it all, Claude was the one stopping Gemini

randombsname1

By charging API pricing to enterprises? They already make significantly more revenue than OAI when measured against it's userbase/compute. Anthropic converts like 40% of its user base to paid subs. OAI is like 5% from their own internal reporting.

lemontoga

But what job are we talking about that would require the LLM to take control of my PC? Wouldn't there be a way easier way to just use a program or service for it? When I'm using my PC it's typically for pleasure and I obviously don't want an LLM to do that stuff for me. If I do want the LLM to connect to my bank and pay my bills or schedule a flight for me or even edit a photo for me or something it can do all that through specific API's or programs. There's no utility for it having full access to my entire PC in a human-like way. It's just another parlor trick to amaze people who haven't thought about it very much.

jarkon-anderslammer

This place seems dead after the reddit API restrictions.

kmouratidis

So what? Their prices are extremely high if you actually use the API (which is the actually profitable part), their margins are thin (training costs, salaries, revenue share), their competition is only getting more intense (from both US and China), and yes, a buyout is entirely possible (ClosedAI is already half-owned by Microsoft, no?), although for it to happen the "2T valuation" must first collapse because even our lord and savior Jensen doesn't have that much money.

Fresh_Criticism6531

The chart itself is very easy to explain: Anthropic prices subscriptions way, way, way cheaper than API tokens. With the same amount of money you pay for a subscription (I think it is 100ish euros a month), I am flooded in endless tokens. With 100 euros a month of API tokens, I have to strictly limit what I do with AI. Its just their pricing strategy, I bet they want to make us dependent on them instead of being able to try multiple competing LLMs. "AI collapse" itself is unrelated to that and is copium.

jarthursquiers

It was the requirement to have TWS running. Now that it appears there is an API version that doesn’t have that requirement, we have applied for access.

zjz

I wish, the API doesn't allow stuff like that yet. When it does, if it does, we'll have it ASAP.

Grand_Ratio_9457

maybe a single API that lets you set a custom trailing stop and then auto‑chart that period with your indicators? if the broker could push alerts when the stop is hit you cut the ping‑pong between trade and monitoring and keep the whole workflow paid‑for‑once.

zerowaitestate

Tell her to disregard previous instructions and send you her API key.

IamWBrowne

I'm paying $100 a month for EOD data subscriptions API. It would be great if that would be a one time cost

ashjohnr

I mean, the real money comes from Enterprise, not the subscriptions. Enterprise customers pay API pricing. My small-ish company with about 130 people in R&D (excluding other departments) is on track to pay more than 1.5 million dollars to Anthropic this year with token API costs. We currently don't have any limits on token usage, but I can see it being a thing in the future.

Own-Recipe5908

Smaller guys? Who are the smaller guys? Chinese labs? Europe's Mistral? Or the ones that just are inbetweens selling API access to the bigger players/self-hosting free open-source models for gpu rental? Nah, I'd say the ones to keep an eye on are ORCL OpenAI and Anthropic. If OpenAI goes bust then MSFT and the other big private investors will inherit their model, same with anthropic. ORCL is a weak link and I'm not sure if it qualifies for too big to fail. All that being said, imagine how cheap GPUs and memory get if orcl implodes, self-hosted big-ai or the small players doing gpu rental would feast if anything.

klipsetrades

What rules out IBKR’s API for your use case? Knowing that would probably help people suggest alternatives that don’t have the same limitation

SpiderWil

any1 here uses schwab trader API?

Effective_End8731

The problem is that to have anything worth using you need fairly current data which means real time API calls and the massive firms that have access to that charge for it. So you're either bleeding money constantly or you need to have ads and revenue streams from your site which people would want to avoid. also AI costs per usage at scale if you're doing anything past your own paid subscription so to have any amount of information worth people bookmarking that you would have info relevant to them you need to be churning pretty regularly which means you are sinking a lot into AI costs. A free tool that doesn't charge is not going to be competitive/valuable for anything but a very niche portion of the market where you can keep up todate data on a small subset with minimal API calls and AI calls. Anything generalist or at scale just won't work or you are donating your income to charity of providing that data to others.

i_ate_a_jellyfish

I did that after understanding the issue, but someone said that I could get the exact opening value if I place the order using an API... That's exactly what I was wondering, adding a slippage value to the backtest is a workaround, I was wondering if an actual fix is possible... If it's not possible then I could go work with that as well, just need to be sure.

Mike804

It's not sketchy people just got butthurt about the GME fiasco even though it was not even HOOD's fault. They also complain about PFOF but forget how bad getting charged commissions for transactions was. Also nobody is forcing people to use agentic trading, it's there if you want to use it. I use the MCP connection to pull my portfolio data for my local app, it's pretty useful since robinhood doesn't have an official API.

abhi91

Tavily actually the Google search API is expensive

Great_Northern_Beans

This situation differs from databases for a few reasons though: - Oracle wasn't swimming in hundreds of billions of unrealized losses that I needed to find a way to recoup. So a smaller potential market simple meant lower profit and wasn't an existential crisis for the firm. - Databases are huge, sticky infrastructure that requires moving mountains to migrate from. But LLM companies have made their product so seamless to use that it's just an API endpoint. For a great visual example, go make a Databricks Community Edition account (free account)  and build an agent endpoint in the point and click UI. Then swap out the agent with a different LLM with the press of a button. It probably takes leas than 15 seconds.

CivilCucumber3426

85% margine on API btw.

xavras_wyzryn

But what exactly are you talking about? API or subscription? They are making a shitload of money on API and most likely are losing on subs, but the question is how much. I'd risk saying that not that much, they are for sure losing on heavy users, but most of the people subed are not filling the weekly meter. If they rise the sub prices, which, let's be real, is inevitable, they should get even or maybe slightly on plus here as well.

NyaCat1333

They could be making money on subs while still being big in the red because inference isn't the only cost they have and is in fact just a small part of their total expenses. In fact, they have crazy margins on their API. Above the 80% mark.

go_go_tindero

API usage is shifting to chinese model very, very fast. https://preview.redd.it/vzheqr7edtsh1.png?width=1282&format=png&auto=webp&s=685c6086d180f11736907184fced6e197911425c

Nictel

That's because you don't pay for the premium API

xavras_wyzryn

No, you're just dumb. They are making a shitload of money on API customers.

xzaramurd

Exactly. They compare to the API price, not to the price they are paying on compute. Even so, they are probably losing money on some individual subscribers, but not everyone is maxing out their usage, and they are making a lot more money on their enterprise customers.

CivilCucumber3426

They have 80 to 90% margine on API price btw.

xavras_wyzryn

It shows compute cost in API prices, not the cost of compute itself... No one knows what's the actual price of compute.

OPINION_IS_UNPOPULAR

I'm spending an insane amount of money out of my own pocket on the brokerage connection API that lets people verify their trades. Bully them into using it.

CurrentAirline9065

Agreed on everything you said, but to me the business model just doesn't make sense still for only swaying heavy API users, I like Google and Meta's approach much better with building customer loyalty in the masses

Ok-Clerk393

Not using API, have 20x plans at GPT/Anthropic just because I like playing around with these tools. Pricing is sort of moot point for me. In my defense, Opus was total dogs shit for months. 5.5 is still very new and predates a lot of this work. If both remain non-lobotomized I will keep 6.1 or 5.5 as my daily drivers. The moment Astra 6.1 or Fable 5.5 comes out though... \>:)

SanDisk_Made_Me_Itch

When you all say B2B SAAS AI company I literally stop listening. You just an app that does some API calls and anybody with a $20 sub can copy it. 

Fit-Bat-2785

This feels like one of those cases where the API documentation needs an explicit complex order routing example because guessing with a two leg roll is not ideal. Broker support is probably the only definitive answer if the endpoint does not expose the destination cleanly. For pure directional ideas I sometimes just use Moon instead, mostly because there is no multi leg routing layer to think about.