TC

Mr_Bob_Ferguson

>This is bullish for Tornado Cash, right? It shows the faith that the hackers had in the product. Works as intended. **Hackers:** "Thanks TC. Great product. 5 star review."

ScottKavanagh

As OP states with this post and I’ve done the same.. ₿TC and ETH. This is they way.

GuytFromWayBack

ISO TC/307 already exists, we don't want or need a US-built standard.

MinimalGravitas

This is such a dumb video, the entire premise is a hypothetical of what would happen if the US OFAC tried to push censorship on Ethereum... but that has already happened with TornadoCash... and the way out played out was that initially lots of the big entities were indeed soft censoring transactions (not including them in blocks they produced, but still attesting to them if proposed by other validators). If I remember correctly at one point about 3/4 validators were censoring TC transactions, meaning that if you wanted to use TornadoCash or interact in any way with one of the sanctioned addresses it would have taken on average 48 seconds for your transaction to be picked up (compared to 12 seconds for a non-'censored' transaction on Ethereum, or 600 seconds on Bitcoin). However, the amount of compliance with the OFAC sanctions has decreased over time and now only about 1/4 validators are soft-censoring [https://www.mevwatch.info/], so basically the hypothetical from this video has already been tested in a real life scenario and their silly narrative didn't play out at all. As usual, Bitcoin Maxis are making up bollocks about Ethereum to try and mislead uninformed retail investors... i.e. it's just another Tuesday in crypto.

Zomthereum

Good post. I agree, TC.

Legitimate_Suit_3431


GoldenArkad

KYC verified .... (at)3TC on twitter There was some community post about it a while ago i think people tried to figure it out

lordofming-rises

Make TC great again?

Beyonderr

r/cryptocurrency has limit on posts for Coins. Right now there's a ton of posts about the Trump collection. If we'd have a Trump Coin ($TC?), there'd be max 2 in the top 50 😂

johnfintech

Haha, fine - I give you that, at a push I can consider Tornado to be a flash lending platform with a minimum locked value and no native token failing the Howey test for the SEC to come after. Fairly govt resistent as long as there is at least one validator accepting TC transactions (you just have to wait a little longer).

Fuck_Up_Cunts

Tornado Cash uses zk-snarks which require a permissioned trusted setup ceremony. Now that ETH is PoS, TC transactions are also often censored.

bawdyanarchist

That's what summary judgement is for. The judge has the power to say, "No, as a matter of law, it's very clear yall done fucked up, and we're ruling in favor of the TC plantiffs." Now if the judge denies the motion and it has to go to trial, yes, it could get dragged out much further.

002_timmy

I see the argument for banning TC (although I disagree with it). I do not understand the argument for arresting the developer

anonymouscitizen2

Okay Indonesia. Now which bank will let you open an account with no deposit or credentials so I can show you from their own TC it’s not possible. You made the claim, not me. The unbanked number was from memory and it’s outdated. It’s ~2B of adults. https://www.businessinsider.com/the-worlds-unbanked-population-in-6-charts-2017-8?amp The bet is between me and you. If you can open a new bank account faster than I create a Bitcoin wallet $1,000, $10,000, $1,000,000 sure. We can have a mod here escrow if your actually serious. It’s literally impossible for me to lose this bet. I’m not going to fly halfway around the world to your country for an anonymous bet. Me vs you online is realistic and doable. Or will you admit creating a bitcoin wallet is faster and easier than opening a bank account?

gr8ful4

Unlike TC, Monero has anonymous devs, that have not been DIRECTLY profiting off the protocol. Also it has a much broader developer community and public interest. Many different communication channels. Gitlab backup in case Github gets interrupted. Monero has a completely different legal standing and is much harder to disrupt by governments than TC. Read more on it here: https://np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/iti467/perkins_coie_whitepaper_antimoney_laundering/ Of course that doesn't mean Monero doesn't get state attacked. It does. Just in different ways. You can read more on that in my most recent OP.

vinellafprelovedgl

Well that's interesting because Monero seems to be way more effective at laundering assets that Tornado but still, hackers choose TC over Monero. Is there any limitation to prevent such behavior with Monero? Or is it just a basic liquidity issue?

Kristkind

TC was also branded as a privacy service. The difference is cosmetic at best.

BlubberWall

There haven’t been major hacks using the XMR atomic swaps yet. The low liquidity in them is probably saving the chain at this point. You will have very pro Monero people give long technical arguments as to why monero’s protocol is different than TC, and TC was essentially mixing your money with dirty money. They are completely correct, however expecting the regulators to care about those technicalities is a bold stance IMO. Just because they can’t stop it, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t try banning it. If Monero is used for atomic swapping large amounts of stolen exchange/LP/“dirty” funds, I’d bet the regulations will start coming

yebyen

Are you sure they weren't talking about Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Litecoin *futures* as derivatives, which isn't really a statement relative to the claim of Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Litecoin *deliveries* as securities or commodities. It's the C*F*TC, which is responsible for regulating *futures* is it not? If you think that Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin and friends has found some sweet spot where the token itself is not governable by the SEC and derivatives are not governable by the CFTC, then I have bad news for you. But also good news. None of this impacts whether or not you can use them directly, as a consumer. You do not need a perpetual or quarterly futures exchange market in order to trade and use bitcoin, or any of its nearby neighbors, with any other person. It is possible for the token to be a security, and for the derivative (future/perpetual) to be a derivative. Their status as a commodity does not really have any impact on the SEC's claims that (for example) Coinbase lending and staking products that are built on Bitcoin, Ethereum might be securities as they are shaped. This also could be an entirely separate issue from whether a decentralized staking protocol like STX, Algo, Uniswap etc. changes the story. (If there is no "central issuer" or "common enterprise" then how can it be a security? Well, Coinbase's offering has both of these...)

box-bolt

If it walks and talks like random gibberish data, how could it possibility be illegal? No evidence, no crime. The illegal part would be throwing TC developers in prison without facing a jury of 12 ordinary peers.

joyfulIcecream60843

Agreed. We will catch up and prosper. The transparency from the founder, '3TC' has been what got my attention. I've never had the opportunity to invest in a token where the founder was KYC verified and I'm excited about the opportunity here; As it makes all the difference in the 'trust factor' and lowers your risk.

imabritcat

Jobs are for humans. It's all a big game. You could replace many people with a well crafted excel spreadsheet, but you forgot about the 'critical' TC1s, XYZs, or this way of doing things.. whatever contrivance that exists in a company's lore. In the end I only trust my google home device to find my phone. And I know the majority of my job is making bosses feel comfortable rather than being correct.

Korlithiel

Thanks much TC. Sounds a bit like how I got into Coin Hunt World, to do something that I enjoyed and make something back. GU sounds solid if you can invest the time consistently and without distractions, or at least once a distraction comes along you can finish the match and move onto it.

Allions1

>TC at 10M$ would mean an increase of 39900% of the price. If BTC goes up like that and MOONs follow the same pattern, one single MOON would be at least 79,90$ worth. BTC at 10M$ would mean an increase of 39900% of the price. How this can be considered legit by an "analyst"?

Coindiggs

The ecosystem he has created is the ponzi machine. Since he had "sacrifices" for pulsechain and pulseX that would be the new investors and HEX would be old investors in this. He tried to siphon pulseX sacrifice money (new money) through tornado cash (why use TC if he didnt already know this was ponzinomics) and added the money into the HEX liquidity for old investors to cash out of HEX. He also sacrificed billions of his own HEX to pulseX to make a tax write off for sacrifice "charity" and will most likely be adding that into LPs on the PulseX DEX and in that way keep making money of users while still owning the HEX he just used for a tax write off to generate rewards from staking in LPs. He just tumbles his money around and around and around making more and more while his cultist followers just swallows it all up and thinking he is actually trying to help them and "save them". He props up the HEX holder counts to make the coin look more attractive, check the holders and you will see theres like 9 million wallets holding exactly 100 hex each. Do i need to keep going? HEX is the biggest scam and ponzi in the crypto space right now. The founder is a massive serial liar, doesnt get any worse then this.

step11234


CharlieTheo-14

Starts with B and ends with TC

wheelzoffortune

Let's just hope/pray that the reason is that crypto still isn't mainstream enough and we're still early. Sorry for your loss, TC. My condolences.

Korlithiel

I wouldn’t put money into SOL without a lot of compelling information, what with their centralization, going down, wallet hacks, and shills like TC. Cardano by comparison I feel open to, but I still wouldn’t bag hold without some solid time spent doing my own research.

Primary_Technical

Don't send your 🅱️TC to someone claiming to double it or Hitmen !

Yonix06

This is something i thought about too. But i've read the B TC whitepaper and there is a sentence in it about this exact situation. So i'm still bullish, i might get burned but i'm starting to get used to it.

Okygen

I send them all MY TC because they said they will repay me double :o

uwu2420

If I remember correctly, the legal issue with TC was that they were taking payment for facilitating the mixing transactions. So writing code is OK, but taking payment for mixing coins is not OK. The Ethereum Foundation doesn’t collect any fees. I assume they make their money off of their stash of ETH growing in value.

MoneroArbo

If TC is already sanctioned and blacklisted at reputable exchanges, how does this help? You go from funds tainted by hack, to funds tainted by OFAC sanctions.

uwu2420

Not really, only the wallet frontends with developers located in the US, or RPCs hosted in the US would have to. There are many that aren’t and those will continue to work fine, or you could easily just not update Metamask and use your old version. Notice how despite TC being sanctioned it still works fine. With USDC no amount of modifying code will get the smart contract to accept a transaction from an address that’s been blacklisted. If it’s blocked it’s blocked and that’s that.

bandikut2020

His situation is such a clusterf*ck honestly. It seems that he’s being held until judges can understand how TC actually functions which unfortunately might take a long while. The fact he’s Russian doesn’t help too.

GrandJournalist9110

TC dev getting jailed is a disadvantage

genuin3

You can't simply compare Tornado Cash to Monero. Why? Firstly, TC is just a smart contract on Ethereum. As Tornado Cash is Ethereum based - every single transaction interacting with the TC smart contract were fully traceable. You could literally see funds from illegal sources (eg. hacked funds) interacting with the contract. Secondly, the devs behind TC actually made money of these *traceable illegal sources of income.* Devs would earn a fee for every transaction made, and the issue with it being absolutely transparent is that a gov could point to TC making money off specific highly illegal transactions - which is one of the main reasons why it got shutdown in the first place. Monero is an entirely different beast - you can't prove for any transaction if it was involved in illegal activities - as its private and 100% fungible. Also, Monero is not a smart contract garnishing income for the devs. Devs don't gain or lose anything when a transaction is made. Monero is its own unique decentralized private P2P network, while TC was just a smart contract on Ethereum (a non-fungible fully traceable crypto) - making profit for its devs. There are many more arguments to be given, but I feel the above is sufficient to have a basic understanding of the difference between the 2 :)

tipsoutforharambe

I did in my original post. They sanctioned users of Tornado Cash retroactively and miners began censoring transactions that had sent/received funds into the TC smart contract, dApps began blocking wallets, etc. Data: https://www.mevwatch.info/

riluzol

It is not brute forceable if you pick a long passphares with combination of letters and numbers... For example t111r111i111s222a333m333p333l222e22tRiSAtrisapassB1TC01N20192022 -easy to remember -> you can easily make it harder...

caploves1019

It is not illegal to hold gold... It was confiscated by the government for war efforts in the 1930's. That is all. Even if it was illegal to hold gold, the same logic would apply to Bitcoin: if self-custody became illegal, would you hand your ₿TC over to daddy-gov, or have a boating accident with your node/wallet-signing-device/etc.? Same for gold. The 2nd amendment exists for protection against exactly these scenarios.

caploves1019

Please look refer to 2 shtcoins with similar names to see what happens when miners war with the general public. The best coin stood the test and has won, there is no substitute for ₿TC, all who've tried have failed. Use Coingecko to reference any "competitor" over the last 5 years and compare them directly to Bitcoin itself. You will find everything else is a pump and dump by comparison regardless of whatever the promised made are that the chain can handle. There have been plenty of Bitcoin forks; all have been objectively worse options against Bitcoin.

conkeysoundhq

Take a look and you will not regret it! ❤ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-TC2mOGhM4

conkeysoundhq

Take a look and you will not regret it! ❤ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-TC2mOGhM4

conkeysoundhq

Take a look and you will not regret it! ❤ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-TC2mOGhM4

conkeysoundhq

Take a look and you will not regret it! ❤ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-TC2mOGhM4

NiGhTShR0uD

It's like they don't even know how to use TC other than the fact that they know it's used generally to try and launder funds. SMH.

GKQybah

The amount of scammers with horrible TC opsec is astonishing. It’s really not that hard to properly use TC. I once saw a hacker deposit an exact amount of 146ETH (100+4x10+6x1) and a week later the exact same amount got withdrawn to a single address. Definitely not the same guy 😆

seraspolas

The funniest thing would be SBF not being in jail but the TC dev is. I know that it's not funny and it's pretty fucked up, maybe that's why it's a little funny atleast.

Baecchus

You can get away with anything as long as you have money. They wanted to make an example of the poor TC developer. Scumbags.

duck1239

I told them my expected TC for the role and they’re like no worries, we’re rolling in money. Then proceeded to also talk about expanding into Europe or something. It was fishy af.

Idyotec

Remember the TornadoCash incident about a month or two ago? Wallets that had interacted with coins that came from TC were being blacklisted and some people were targeting wallets associated with high profile individuals in order to expose them and blacklist the wallet to exchanges. That's one example.

Quiet-Curve9919

Substitute FM with CZ and VB. We don't want another Zuckerberg or TC!!!!!!

Giga79

Yes you can, but the point of crypto is decentralization. TC ~~was~~ is a decentralized and trustless alternative to using a CEX for obscuring your history.

iterativ

It is an opinion about TC by someone with expertise in cyber surveillance.

flyfreeflylow

I don't understand why anyone pays attention to this guy. What makes him an expert? And what purpose does TC serve other than to launder money?

Spardasa

Great time to do an AMA amongst exchange concerns. 

liquid_at

If you want to convey a message, encode it with language that people can understand and do not assume that mind-reading is a common skill that everyone has. Main difference between Cash and TC is that Cash is being used to launder money by politicians, while TC is not. the crime that politicians do is always more protected than the crime anyone else does... Always has been... Power corrupts.

showmethemoon1e

Code is defined as speech by law under freedome of speech. Its program wich is code. Cash is most used tool to launder money. Even Vitalik used tornado cash to donate money for cause wich he wanted to stay anonymous. 70% of miney going thru TC is legit. Its not my idea. Its reality. Go to see whonare people behind world economic forum and check what is great reset. Totalitarian control over cbdc is more Disney movie than privacy. Own nothing and be happy. Dosn't it sound like Disney movie. Thats the world you want to live on. Have a nice day.

callunquirka

Also people knew about TC for ages now. The cops probably already had a file on it. Other than his statements about ponzi schemes and yield farming, there were no reasons to open a file on SBF.

LawProud492

You seem to be the dumb one. TC didn’t have fees. Why don’t you educate yourself before talking about things you no idea about?

ascending_fourth

That's very weird. Do you have links on articles about this judge saying this? I am not sure that it is free, if you look at txs on etherscan, you will see that a small portion of assets is going to some other address, so staying inside the system. And anyway, what was the point of running tc? Money laundering altruists? Also I am not so sure that he is not affiliated with the TC entity. Like yeah we want to run crypto mixer, lets outsource the whole code and pay him a couple of k. Rarely happens with such "anonymity" services.

Phil_Hurslit51

Thats because TC would give people financial freedom but ftx was just as centralized as the fed. Can't have these peasants walking around all willy nilly now.

Ispan

Hope they all do including kwon & the fuck from Celsius. Free TC dev please!!

Snowflake8050

No one is posting news about the TC dev that was arrested. It's like they are trying to swept it under the rug...

MaximumStudent1839

Note the key difference. 1) SBF is a pawn of Washington neocon - he was the biggest crypto figure arguing for global OFAC compliance. 2) While TC was actively undermining OFAC and neocon's control. In America, people can riot and kill each on the streets. Police brutality can kill in broad daylight. Heck, we can even say "fuck you" to funding early childcare. But you can't mess with the military-industrial complex's money and influence. Govt can run into a debt crisis, social security can run into insolvency, and we can keep our road derelict with potholes, but, for dear god, you HAVE to squeeze every tax dollar to feed the insatiable military-industrial complex.

Snowflake8050

Yeah, that's the problem. People have apparently forgot really fast about this. Plus there haven't been any news realted to the TC dev for a while. They are trying to cover it all up

Snowflake8050

The thing is that it's not only the US. TC dev was arrested in the netherlands so its a global problem. Bahamas police should raid Alameda and arrest SBF

UsedTableSalt

Well the difference is SBF has a lot of money (billions if not millions) and his parents has political connections. The TC dev is probably just a normal guy like 99.99% of people in this sub.

Snowflake8050

TC dev should stole some billions maybe that way he can be set free

yourmom_fat_as_hippo

From government PoV, Things like Open source software, freedom of speech and people taking control of their money matters 1000s of times more than a single fraudster. Government doesn't care much that people lost their money or life-savings due to some scams. They are more worried that their control over citizens and money can't be lost. It's the only way they can remain in power. People like TC developer Alexey Pertsev and silk road founder RW Ulbricht are most important and they will never allow them to set free. It's not about their crime, but rather to set an example ans show the public that they won't allow common people to take control away from them.

paisleyno2

TC bulls have taken over it will break $29.5k CAD shortly, look at daily chart and now we have a bullflag setup on the 15 min, same situation went we went from $27.7k CAD to where we stand today (Edit 28.7 Cad at the time of writing this). I need to see it break $30.64k CAD, then I would be very very bullish. It might happen... we'll see... Thoughts? Yes am Canadian, sorry.

OurNumber4

Some nodes censor coins associated with TC but your transaction gets picked up by a non censoring node and validated. So worse case scenario your transaction is delayed by a few seconds. Even at 99% OFAC compliance you get into a block eventually. Remember all coinbase validators are non censored so it will never get to 90% also there are solutions like producer builder separation and shutterised beacon chain on devnets

gamma55

So TC isnt censored anymore?

Set1Less

Even at 99% OFAC compliant blocks, a tornado cash transaction will confirm in 6 minutes, faster than a Bitcoin transaction. https://www.inclusion.watch/ OFAC compliance does nothing to prevent usage of TC by those who want to use it. This is the TC router as you can see, people are transacting all the time - https://etherscan.io/address/0xd90e2f925da726b50c4ed8d0fb90ad053324f31b The only reason the same level of OFAC censorship is not rampant on Bitcoin is because it has no such onchain mixers. It has no privacy. Bitcoin had real adoption when Silk Road started using it, soon darknet markets got shut down and the legitimate uses as p2p crypto started moving to other chains like Monero Now there is no widespread use as p2p currency for bitcoin, its an energy wasting machine where one miner after another goes bankrupt because of the sheer unsustainability of the system Why arent many more bitcoin wallets getting sanctioned by OFAC? Is it because OFAC has a soft spot for Bitcoin or is it because there is nothing worth sanctioning in Bitcoin, as all the transactions are already compliant? Because they are not being used for the intended purpose i.e. p2p currency. Users of digital currency have long moved onto other networks Your entire hopes rest on sucking up to regulators and hoping ETF gets approved, not on actual usage as p2p currency

liqfan

Yeah it's not, just some DDOS attacks that were mitigated by CloudFlare very quickly. He tried to claim a bounty from every frontend and TC itself claiming he could crash it while he couldn't. Wasn't even attacking the network, just targeting public endpoints without affecting TC functionality, basically the same as "attacking" any other website.

DadofHome

TC became a Honeypot…

jjduhamer

The worry isn’t so much that it will take a little longer, but how quickly this number got so high. TC was OFACed in like August (if memory serves). It took just 6 weeks for 51% to start censoring and 8 weeks to get to 63%!

TCr0wn

Litecoin Summit Live in Vegas, Charlie Lee currently speaking https://youtu.be/q93DCE_TC54

SleepCom

I wish it worked that way! We only send atoms or a few atoms back and forth through time, and chart their trajectory. In fact, it's prohibited by law that anything unlicensed be entangled. "Transmission-events and reception-events are proctect by the self-consistency principle inherent in all conformal manifolds. The Time Viewer must maintain the preferred frame at all times (Ref. TC-1141 "Interpretation and Constraint of Exotic Time Frames"). That's page 15 of the Chronal Lance Qualification Inspection Plan (Tak 09722). Under Key features it notes: "Equipment is qualified up to 100 years forward (FUTURE) and 20 years reverse (PAST)." only if "low mass-energy profile for minimum causality impact." This is also why no velocity parameter is required with the TAT 1.81 and newer. So even if you could, I think there would be problems. I'm not an engineer, I just pass on the measurements to them and they make the decisions. There's someone else in this forum that was talking about the CPA Office of Information Protection calibration plan, so I'm not the only one who works on TATs and has been messing around with bitcoin, lol!

Jahshua159258

*laughs in salted TC ETH*

Spartan3123

Like ztrash. Eth has optional privacy too, when you use it you get TC-ETH coins

Spartan3123

wouldn't be surprised if your comment wasn't heavily down voted - people just vote based of their bias without really reading. By building on non-compliant blocks you are actually implicitly marking them as valid. They just aren't including TC transactions in the blocks they mine. Remember BTC had miners creating empty blocks - isn't this censorship lol?

Njaa

If TC transactions are stuck in the mempool with no-one serving them, we certainly have a problem. We're *extremely* far from that point though.

Njaa

Yes? Your sarcasm tag doesn't seem extremely apt when there's ***zero*** TC transactions stuck in the mempool. The difference between having to wait 12 and 24 seconds doesn't seem to warrant your disdain.

Njaa

>I like how you are trying to compare 1 miner mining OFAC compliant blocks for a short amount of time, and then stopping (as they have now), to 51% of the validators on the network creating OFAC compliant blocks. The comparison is apt, because in the end it's up to the individual decentralized actors to choose whether or not to include a transaction. Whether they do this or don't do this has nothing to do with PoW vs PoS. "Ah!", you might say, "but then why did this escalate after the merge?!" Well, as coincidence would have it, the MEV-boost feature, which democratizes MEV, was released in the same fork as the the change from PoW to PoS. It doesn't have a single thing to do with PoS though, other than this happenstance. Any chain sensitive to the ordering and inclusion of blocks is sensistive to MEV, and if the MEV-boost feature had been launched prior to The Merge, this increase in OFAC-compliant blocks would have happened then. In the end, MEV-boost is better than the alternative, since it takes already existing advantages and provides \*all\* contributors the ability to participate instead of just the huge mining pools. It does however lay bare the need for more work on censorship resistance, but even then it's not like a single goddamn TC transaction is stuck and not being processed. That's the beauty of decentralized censorship resistance. Even if 50% of participants hate you, you will still be served.