ICE

Slightlybadpicks

ICE this guy right here 🖕

Ok_Yesterday_3585

ICE engines like to be driven Having a motor that barely runs is terrible for longevity

fomoandyoloandnogrow

ICE, 👆🏻 this guy right here

Helpful-Weekend-2224

They are blaming ICE weakening the economy...LMFAO!

pinkmeanie

PHEV, where commuting miles are 100% electric and ICE is only engaged for long trips, is not negligible.

NoamLigotti

\> Dr. Paul identifies as a Libertarian because the Republican party left him behind. No, that's not why. He identifies with the ideology that the capital-L party is supposed to represent, but that's separate from why he does. \> The entire platform used to be based upon fiscal responsibility and personal responsibility... Yeah, right. Maybe more than they do now and back in the 50s, but that's not saying much. Reagan sure as hell wasn't "fiscally responsible". Nixon wasn't "fiscally responsible". \> none of which exists in the current Republican party to any degree. One of the few true litmus tests of Republicans used to be ending the department of education, but anyone who even suggests it is now vilified. Uh, Trump has repeatedly talked about that and he has cut funding to it more than any government since its inception. Yeah, that'll cut the debt: eliminate the Dept of Education while spending another 100 billion on ICE and another trillion to the DOD and maybe another trillion on another unpaid war, and stall economic growth outside of the S&P, and a few more multi-trillion $ tax cuts while still allowing use of tax havens and not increasing revenue. That'll do it. I mean what does the Dept of Education do anyway? Just makes us have to use DEI and pumps kids full of liberal Marxist propaganda through government schools probly, \> When Paul ran for president...he ran as a Republican, because anybody not affiliated with one of the two privately owned mainstream political parties cannot win and everybody knows it. I'm afraid you don't know much about the history of politics. I registered Republican and voted for Paul in the primaries. I'm afraid you think you know a lot more than you actually do. \> ...and further, you're making my point. The word conservative has the base word "conserve" as in protect from decay, preserve, avoid harm, avoid waste. None of which bears any resemblance to the current Republican party or the lifelong democrat turned republican currently leading it. The man is a real estate developer that's in love with debt. Words can have multiple, variable definitions. But yes I agree that contemporary Republicans are counter to any literal or technical definition for conservative. They have more in common with the term that involves promising to restore a nation to a mythical past through blind loyalty to an authoritarian nationalist party and leader and by cleansing the nation of undesirables. But it's politically incorrect to actually use the word so you have to say right-wing populist, far-right, alt-right, new right, or just "conservative". \> If JFK were alive today, he'd run as a Republican...and he'd be unable to get elected due to being too...wait for it...conservative. All of this, of course, helps explain why his nephew is in the current administration. Well that's a great point in the sense that the Democrats are now certainly more conservative than the Republicans are, in the sense of "caution and restraint" and "fiscal conservatism", though not in "social conservatism". But no I don't think that explains why RFK Jr. is. The reason he's in this admin is because he's a conspiracy fictionist crackpot and willing to be a loyalist to the party leader. And other crackpots like him. The rest of his family does not see eye to eye to say the least. \> "Ron Paul’s conservative rating in 2012 varied significantly depending on the organization and methodology used. His American Conservative Union (ACU) rating was 68%, while the National Taxpayers Union gave him a 92% score for fiscal conservatism. Other notable ratings include 91% from Americans for Prosperity, 92% from The Club for Growth, and 100% from the Cato Institute." \> I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. As I said, words can be defined different ways. Liberals are conservatives, and conservatives \[used to be\] liberals. I don't know what we're debating.

SanDisk_Made_Me_Rich

I'm doing everything I can to hide this Latina baddie from ICE, but **she is so fucking loud LOL** It was nice while it lasted and is why I prefer Eastern European women. But I only live once and I had to experiment for fun.

macattack892

Hybrid. ICE to power electric engine.

GEOdude2027

The fall of GEO has started. They’ve been killing it as the #1 beneficiaries of ICE contracts but with a blue wave coming into congress and defunding ICE becoming the #1 domestic talking point the stock will inevitably return to historically normal levels.

MenagerieAlfred

Probably ICE or FBI

aveggiebear

Somebody put this person in a straightjacket and lock him in an ICE holding cage forever. ✌🏼

bigmeatbag

🌈🐻 getting gunned down in the streets like they got pulled over by ICE

Sabbathius

I still worry about the election process. He just brought Musk back into the fold literally the other day, presumably do to his thing again with the voting machines. ICE has been training for 18 months, and will likely be stationed around polling places, snatching "illegals" (aka anyone who looks brown and might vote Democrat). And Hegseth is getting the military ready and purging the few still left whose moral compass still vaguely points towards freedom and democracy. Then again, with the endemic incompetence of this administration, I kinda doubt they'll actually pull it off. Too many moving parts. Still, if you're even slightly off-white, and worry about your ability to vote being interfered with, you may want to swallow your pride and get a MAGA hat. Just put it on as you approach the polling station, to get though the ICE cordons.

MrStealYoBeef

Not really. Battery tech was more the issue. The ICE was many times more cost and space efficient for the same purpose.

ayers231

Pretty sure this was always the plan. Thiel isn't an idot. Use Trump to get across the election line. Pass as much of Project 2025 as possible while Trump is President. Let him get impeached after January 20th, 2027. This gives Vance the possibility of being president for 10 years without a constitutional crisis. Then they'll soften up. End the war in Iran, fuel prices go down a bit, groceries go down a bit. End the crazy tariffs, prices go down a little bit. Have ICE work like they did under Obama, quietly, behind the scenes, get them out of the news cycle. Push for 2028 Vance win. People have the memory of goldfish. Racists and misogynists are mad right now. Get rid of Trump, save the farmers with a bailout, get costs down, and they'll be right back in the polling booth pulling the lever for Republicans.

Expert_Context5398

I'm not saying you as a consumer shouldn't want to buy it. I'm just saying it's being priced that way for nefarious reasons. The reason why China is subsidizing EV to a high extent is because they see this as their moment to seize the auto industry. This was normally a Japanese, European, and U.S.-dominated market. Before EV's existed, China wasn't a known auto-manufacturing country because ICE vehicles were already perfected and China could not compete against other brands. EV's gave the auto industry a new product which allowed China to seize on it. That's why they allowed Tesla to enter their country without restrictions while normally, they require 50-50 ownership with a partnering Chinese auto manufacturer. I do agree that vehicle prices in America have been insane. A large part of that is due to how much of a driving culture there is in America where people want the premium options and the more affordable options such as sedans or hatchbacks. Sedans used to be 50% of the market share in the U.S. until a decade ago but now it's hovering around 15%.

Expert_Context5398

You don't even understand what you're talking about. I've been investing in this space for over a decade and I personally have connections to people who work in the EV industry in China as a parts distributer. I just gave you a reason why the U.S. isn't subsidizing EV's... Because you need Congress approval to get these spending bills passed and because many of these states/cities rely on ICE vehicles for their economy, subsidizing EV's could effectively mean they lose their jobs and votes... Do you understand the differences in how government works in China versus America? Clearly you don't. People aren't 'demanding' BYD's here, lmao. You also apparent It's just you Tesla haters who want BYD to desperately come here because you're upset that Tesla is the only one dominating EV's in America. You can't stand to see it. Just the fact that you think Tesla is inferior to BYD in every way, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Do you seriously think any sane country would allow a heavily subsidized product to flood their country, destroy their economy, and just accept it as standard? If BYD had to manufacture in the U.S., do you seriously think you'll be able to buy BYD vehicles at the prices you can get them for in China? What kind of business school did you attend or are you just here to act stupid?

OrdinaryMix4013

is taco bro gonna send ICE to the bond stock market LMAOOO DUMB ASS

Skittler_On_The_Roof

I'm not the one with spreadsheet alchemy.  Accidents are already reduced by autonomous driving.  FSD isn't perfect, but it doesn't drink and drive, it doesn't speed, it doesn't get road rage.  And autonomous crashes of leases vehicles, aside from gross negligence such as failure to replace tires, are going to be the fault of the manufacturer, not the owner.  If you're driving your new car and a verifiable defect causes the brakes to lose pressure and you mow down a girlscout on the crosswalk, do you think your insurance company is paying out or the manufacturer?  A video and software data available to show a glitch or gap in software during FSD mode is no different. But don't take my word for it, there are plenty of studies out there on how long-term insurance companies are going to need to deal with reduced revenue when FSD eventually becomes ubiquitous. My math displayed earlier clearly showed a conservative crack with an average rider cost of $10 per ride and 50% of that then going to fees.  I like your 20% figure better for my point but you haven't thought that through. Charging costs are paid for by letting your car do enough rides.  5 a day is more than enough to offset. Car cleaning!  I'm glad you brought that up!  It shows you've taken the time to detail why I'm wrong but not the 5 seconds to actually research yourself.  Let me start by saying fuck Elon, but they've not only theoretically solved this but have already begun rolling it out.  When it's charging how difficult is it to vacuum a car YOU designed for robotic cleaning?  Answer is that it's not problematically difficult.  Spills and vomits are as simple as banning repeat offenders or charging fees.  For $100 I'll deal with it and the shitty rider can find a new rideshare if they don't like it. The lease mileage/depreciation is speculation in any direction.  Current leases and leases cars are built on a business model of having to resell the car for substantially less after the lease is up.  We're moving to an appliance model here.  Given Tesla's history of doing things like eating the cost of charging to attract buyers, I find it unlikely they're going to penalize people making them extra money via their slice of the rideshare pie. Fuck Elon, and long term it's almost impossible that smarter, newer efficient overseas manufacturers don't eat their lunch soon.  But in general the model of really cheap autonomous taxi/cars making it a luxury NOT to own one is inevitable.  EVs are really super simple compared to even just the transmission of an ICE car, never the actual ICE and the hundreds of wear parts and multiples more maintenance.  And computers are already better drivers than your average person, even if not perfect. It probably won't be Tesla and it might be 20 years, but unless you think we've reached the peak of technology at being 90% of the way to FSD there's no logic as to why it won't be the norm for these appliances.  Not to mention drastically reduce what we spend on transportation at a time when the average new car is $50k and driven by a meatbag idiot.

niaqr

ICE just detained my robot janitor what do

StanfordDish

Why do I get the feeling this press conference is a top signal? "We have the best AI, ICE get rid of dirty migrants and 'the worst people in the world', everyone will get rich".

Actual_Difference617

Have you heard of ICE? They are gonna send you to a random trip.

GongTzu

I guess he could break up the party quite fast if he invited ICE, they could take away half the tabel. 😂

GuyOnTheCouch420

There are really good reasons its night and day with Trulieve. Trulieve has net cash and last quarter $98M EBITDA. They trade at a TTM EV/EBITDA of 5.6x. But if you include the UTP than they have net debt of $562M and EV/EBITDA of 7.1x GLAS has net debt of $144M and ttm EBITDA is negative. If you give them the benefit of the doubt and use last quarter - the only quarter of positive EBITDA...it still trades at 40x EV/EBITDA! Strategically: Trulieve is highly profitable and has a moat based on the regs today. If regs change they still should be a dominant retailer in Florida even if interstate commerce comes although it does create uncertainty for others to come in on brand side. And it seems that Kim has more influence on federal regs than any other cannabis company. GLAS - there is very strong and pretty justified speculation that their product is being sold out of state (which is illegal), they got raided by ICE and lot of questions around child labor. Lots of regulatory risk. The only way their market cap is justified is if interstate commerce or export comes AND they end up a winner in those markets. But there will be a ton of competition there and it's unclear what advantage they have (they may be competitive they may not). They may be the only large greenhouse growing cannabis in the US today, but that will not stay the same with interstate commerce. Lots of traditional farmer/ag guys will enter. The big MSOs like Cura and GTI probably build bigger facilities. VFF has facilities in texas. CRON just did an investor day and talked about building in the US when its ready. Other big tobacco. Etc etc. Would much rather go long GTI for their uplisting or consolidation with Rythm or ride TRUL than Glas. They are all still way way cheaper than glas. Even the Canadian LPs are way cheaper than GLAS today

dgellow

The Trump guy you all voted for gutted every single agency supposed to enforce regulations. Other than ICE of course 

TaliskyeDram

Oh good more ICE cars when gas is 5$ a gallon brilliant move... Also China is outcompeting us on the global stage in EVs handedly, they subsidize the dickens out of them, but that means they sell them extra cheap comparatively. We're getting beaten in the auto industry yet again.

923kjd

It starts with “a lot of people are saying I should…” Every goddamn time with him. Like how currently “a lot of people are saying I should deploy ICE to polling places”. Not even the absolute morons he surrounds himself with are saying anything like this, I promise.

dongliang007

ICE cars are going to die soon. You are betting if VW can turn around, for sure I believe they will survive but at a even lower stock price.

MellowHamster

The rest of the world is going electric with a heavy reliance on renewable energy. The United States is going in reverse, pushing ICE vehicles and the majority of electricity generated by burning fossil fuel. And, yes, Donald. Engineers are smart enough to realize that solar panels don't generate power at night. It's a solvable problem.

4Yk9gop

Solid state batteries will become mainstream around then. You'll see A) EVs cost less than ICE and able to go 300 miles on a charge and B) EVs that cost the same as ICE and have a range of 400-500 miles. C) Trucks and other heavy industry EVs become much more practical. The entire ICE->EV transition is basically currently in a valley of death which is why you have seen several american companies backtrack because they looked at the numbers and they were not as juicy with EVs.

TreGet234

The latest reading for the ICE BofA CCC & Lower Option-Adjusted Spread (OAS) sits at 11.12%. Long-Term Historical Average: 10.98%Where We Stand: We are technically slightly above the historical mean (+14 basis points).The Trend is Key: Just one year ago, this exact spread was trading down at a highly compressed 7.94%. The spread has surged by over 40% year-over-year. While an 11.12% spread means we are tracking slightly above average, it is crucial to separate "average" from "extreme/crisis" historical levels: [1, 2] Historic Low (Tightest): 4.14% (June 2007). We are clearly above historical tights. Historic High (Widest): 44.29% (December 2008 Financial Crisis). We are nowhere near broad crisis levels.

fomoandyoloandnogrow

FBI this guy right here. ICE, if you’re listening this guy too

Qu4r4nt1n3r

Well since it's American turf now, Send ICE

95Daphne

Well, this actually isn't something that Hispanic people would be upset about. The main reason they're swinging is economically based, though some weren't happy with ICE. Don't feel this is the place to really get on my soapbox, so I'll just be honest, Iran and gas prices is what is giving the left in the US a punchers shot at a big boy backlash finally occurring. That's it. Nothing else.

earthling_only

LOL whatever ass hat, I love my EV and will never buy an ICE car again.

oulu2006

Sorry to hear, in AU we have so many new quality EV cards between 20k-40k -- I've bought two of them recently because of that swapping over all ICE vehicles. Trump has done more for global EV then any other president past or possibly future.

Maakus

Knowing that the administration is criminal and will do about anything they can to stay in power I bet bombs will be dropped on midterm day after majority votes are already cast. Low odds a Reichstag event happens at the capitol involving ICE/Pentagon/Cabinet as well.

ShadowLiberal

Also worth noting here, Hertz has had perfect timing for destroying as much money as possible with their car selections. i.e. first they went all in on EVs at the peek, and then they panic sold a ton of their EVs when the prices declined and invested in a bunch of ICE vehicles, only for used ICE prices to start to tank and used EV prices to go up again.

Consistent_Pop_8148

I can't find any mention of this woman's death. Most the reporting is from April when she was arrested and being held by ICE. I don't even find anything about her actually being deported yet. Do you have a link?

harrypotata

You cant actually believe this? The free benefits stopped so people stopped coming to get a free ride. There are still plenty of people trying to get into the USA and there are plenty of people still trying to get away from ICE. So is your argument that the USA is so bad we should actually let ICE deport them since we would be doing them a favor sending them to a better country? If that is your stance then I agree the USA is a shithole and we should let them go to a better country to have a better life.

SpotlessCheetah

Yeah, then come here and ask why everyone "protested ICE" like 6 months ago and took the day off, sitting outside having lunch all around like nothing was going on. There's a lot of acting here. Shameless.

blacksheep2016

Thank the orange man for this. His ICE buddies, gun violence and treatment of immigrants has many people not wanting to come.

underwooding

yeah i live in toronto and i used to make a trip to the states about every other month. not any more! not willing to roll the dice and die in ICE custody.

sorean_4

The statement that no one disappeared is factually wrong where US citizens claim they were taken into custody for days without checking their status. Illegal imigrants Ended in some South American prison disappearing. I will agree with you that news crews make the protests larger sometimes however ICE killing your citizens and arresting tourists is a problem that somehow the rest of the world doesn’t struggle with.

tendeuchen

[ICE is immediately deporting people from the airport for memes now. ](https://hyperallergic.com/tourist-denied-us-entry-after-ice-found-jd-vance-meme-on-his-phone/) If you're not a US citizen ([and sometimes even if you are](https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/us-citizen-detained-by-ice-atlanta-airport-he-boarded-plane/S67XCCONANCJDIGQPXYUCMBW5E/)), coming to/being in the US is not a safe bet.

kujos1280

No but the international tourists are worried about ICE, whether it’s warranted or not it’s enough to put people off from visiting when they can go anywhere else.

SpotlessCheetah

I am not saying come here if don't support putting your dollars here but there was a lot of TV exaggeration on some parts for one. Like in DTLA it was only a few blocks where ICE and the protesting actually was happening. But if you watched TV you'd think the whole city was up in flames. I'm not going to get gaslit by all these downvotes. I live here.

Plurpulurp

If you look at the numbers the ICE encounters ARE surging. But I agree that most of it seems to be happening out of sight in things like workplace raids and arrests at court appearances. Not officers just body slamming everyone they see on some random Manhattan avenue

skidmark_zuckerberg

Yeah it's kinda crazy how effective the mass media is. There are things about Canada we also see, but you'd be dumb to think that this means all of Canada is like that. ICE isn't worried about some international tourist here on vacation lol.

Rabbit-Hole-Quest

Canadian here. Cost is not really an issue. Canadians have been dropping money in places like Disney, Vegas and Arizona like no tomorrow for many decades. It’s the uncertainty of being locked up due to a roid enthusiast ICE officer who has been recruited with zero due diligence. Y’all are dropping your standards on everything else to. Don’t want die from eating a damn lettuce either.

eddie4h

So true, the midterms will be interesting, personally the ICE issue is just his little army doing work on home soil. The banning of the press is another. People were convinced it was the democrats, but when you have a staunch supporter like MTG calling him out (don’t like her, But she has more balls that 99% of the GOP) you know they is something not right there.

Charming_Raccoon4361

ban all canadians ,call ICE

PoppaBurgundy3

“From a rogue institution” ummm ICE?….

Happy-n-Healthy

ICE will be put in charge of finding conscripts to send over

Deep_Calls_007

💯 it is. Map neurological institure fundings, and newly built ICE detention centres.

Classic-Resist-3517

El Nino always comes with some ICE and TACOs

TinyAdhesiveness5773

americans shouldn't worry about El Nino because ICE will clearly deport it

Aggravating_Fact9547

I mean aftermarket parts are a dying breed. We’re talking EV’s now not ICE cars, they’re just not comparable. Even then, a huge portion of modern vehicle components don’t have aftermarket ECU’s. It’s not a Tesla problem, it’s just a different platform. It’s not an “end to end” encryption problem, so much as a proprietary code problem. And yeah I get it it’s annoying to have to buy OEM parts, but the entire auto industry has been moving this direction for some time. At least Tesla isn’t requiring complicated commercial contracts, insane spends, and complex cables and adaptors. Try and get your BMW to tell you what’s wrong, or log onto it remotely and wirelessly to change parameters, or just use the screen to fully redeploy firmware to swapped modules. Yes it’s OEM but fuck it’s way easier man.

Electrical-Sir-2259

I’ve owned all kinds of cars and people whine about electric cars and costs, seem to forget a few things. One, computers are in every car and have been for a long time. So unless you got something pre 80s you’re running an ECU in your car. I’ve had three electric cars and they all cost more to insure, not just Tesla. Here’s what I found out after five years of ownership of three types. ICE, hybrid, and electric. You’ll spend a fraction of the cost in an electric car. It’s not even close so forget all the comparisons that keep trying to sell you bullshit. As a former mechanic I also can tell you maintenance is going to be very low. Meaning on the Tesla or any electric, the only thing I had to do in a year’s time was tire rotations and one bushing on the suspension on the Tesla, which was free. On my Toyota Corolla hybrid, which I love, it’s close but still got to do all the oil changes and regular maintenance. It’s synthetic and costs more. And that’s a Corolla Hybrid. I also had a Honda Accord Hybrid and it was close to but the maintenance costs just eat it up. The last vehicle is a jeep and well it’s expensive to run. So drive it when necessary not as a freaking status symbol or by myself if I can help it. I charge at home which costs me pennies on the dollar and laugh my ass off whenever I see someone coal rolling in a diesel. I’m like that just costs you twenty bucks and you killed couple birds and trees to do it dumb ass. Meanwhile I can go all over the states now for virtually nothing. A trip from the north east to Florida and then New Orleans cost me about little over 200 in a Tesla. I just did it. And you can math it all you want. Your math ain’t going to add up. It’s a fraction of the cost. And that’s comparing it to a hybrid. My Corolla is cheap too but still not close in overall costs. Oh and if you think your ICE is going to run once the electric goes out, lol. Maybe until you run the tank dry. Good luck after that. Better learn how to start sucking the hose like Road Warrior or figuring out how to manually pump because your gas pumps run on…you guessed it, electric. I have solar battery back up. I can still charge to get me about three hundred miles. The same as your tank of gas. And there are no more mechanics for newer cars. Proprietary parts changers. You can still earn a living working on older cars. As far as the costs conversations that keep happening. It just not going to be cheaper. You can add the higher insurance and parts but it isn’t going to math overall, I know, I live it everyday. If you can figure it out, good luck!

No-Ear7988

> ICE cars don't have a lot of critical points of failure? That's news. I didn't say that. You interpreted it that way. >ICE cars don't have electronics systems that can render them inoperable for bullshit reasons? Pretty sure if the screen on my head unit breaks, I can still adjust the mirrors. Unlike a Tesla.

haberdasher42

That's cool, but there aren't many cars left that don't have ECMs and the start of all the electronic bullshit we're dealing with today and ICE cars have way more points of failure in the powertrain that will in fact need it towed to a mechanic.

anewjesus420

Its a matter of time. I already admitted there would be few left on the road compared to ICE cars, but there will be collectors that replace everything given the time to keep the car running thanks to a handful of nerds. The 2100's Jay Leno will have a running Model Y in the collection

haberdasher42

ICE cars don't have a lot of critical points of failure? That's news. ICE cars don't have electronics systems that can render them inoperable for bullshit reasons?

No-Ear7988

> you may have been pieces of shit, but they were pieces of shit you could fix yourself. Don't forget single point of failure. With modern ICE, its ability to run was generally mutually exclusive to its ability to run electronics. For example, if my multimedia screen on the dash breaks, I'm still able to drive the car. Whereas the newest Model Y so many things run only through the central touchscreen including shifting. There is a back-up where you press a button for the drive mode on near the rearview mirror but it doesn't really change my point in how Tesla has a lot of critical points of failure that can make the car undriveable.

Valkyrie_Skuld

Power is out from light rain. Mostly wind I think. MY ICE CREAM

holchansg

Yes, modern ICE's, past \~5y are also a pain in the ass, a lot less signed binaries, more repairable but also a mess.

dasunt

The signed canbus is both ICE and EVs. So that'll suck regardless.

dasunt

I wonder how many ICE vehicles will see 30 years, considering how much the electronics are integrated. In my few years old EV, I'd say as long as I can get the infotainment and battery, I'm probably fine. It'll depend if a non-OEM supplier for batteries happen. In the few years old non-ICE, infotainment is also a weakness, but no battery. In my decades-old vehicles, I'm doing better. Can get expensive for a few things. But the head unit is just a head unit. In my very old vehicles, I can still find the damnedest parts these days. I'm just going to assume 50 years ago, the cost of setting up equipment and designing slightly different parts wasn't worth it, so there's a lot of weird overlapping compatibility between models that makes it worthwhile to reproduce and sell still.

anonymous_lighting

the charging issue is no different than EV’s on uber. EV market share is growing so ICE vehicles not gonna win that point in the long run. plus tesla has a more vested interest to route their vehicles towards charging stations when they need to charge compared to uber not knowing their drivers gas/charge status

chingatumadre444

No. This is much more dangerous than that. Trump and his tech fascist bros hate America and humanity in general. The tech billionaires are pushing this. They wish to enslave you through control over ever facet of your life. This is Theil. Project 2025. This shit is all spelled out. Your civil rights are dissolving in real time. Plainteir has been used by ICE since 2017, using AI to build a dossier on every "illegal" individual. And if that's what you voted for, youre next stupid.

HuckSauce

I haven’t seen anyone mention the key concern that caused the sector to sell off, GLP-1’s. There is some concern that minimally invasive tech forecasted demand for chronic conditions could be negatively impacted due to a reduction in the obese population. BSC was particularly negatively impacted due to Watchman having both a competitor (Abbott) come into the space and results from a clinical trial comparing it to blood thinners that wasn’t as enticing of data as expected. Last is their PFA tech (Fara) which is the hottest category in MedTech is losing market share to competition. In summary BSCI was valued at a premium by Wallstreet because they had the only real offering in two high-growth categories (LAAC - Watchman, PFA - Fara), and since that point, the market share, growth rate, and TAM are in question. ICE, RDN, and IVL technologies are the keys to watch moving forward.

Apple2o

Shorting GEO group, who’s income is all from ICE, as dems sweep the midterms and push to defund could be the play 🧐

ConferenceFull9068

If the border was never closed, and deportations didn't happen, I guess y'all have no reason to be demonstrating outside ICE facilities. Also you may have been asleep, but the One Big Beautiful Bill was passed last July. I'm sure you saw a benefit in this year's tax return. At least the increase in the standard deduction. Simple internet searches would correct you about the rest.

AppleTree98

Go ahead and shoot yourself. Record and post yourself being part of this action. The government will all of the sudden treat you like extremist and ICE may come for you. LOL

WhatRUsernamesUsed4

I'm not sure of Rivian's long term motivations but they have to focus on not going bankrupt first. Apple already threw in the towel in the car business. I could see Amazon developing a delivery fleet, but would they include consumer taxis? Are drones more efficient delivery systems than land vehicles? The traditional autos never fielded taxi drivers with ICE vehicles. I think including them may be projecting Elons fantasies on an entire industry. I'm not saying Waymo is the guaranteed winner, but they have a decent amount of infrastructure now, they're much better at staying politically neutral, and Google generally runs its businesses well.

Reasonable-Plate2982

This is news? $16 billion? Seems Trump is regularly dumping hundreds of billions every other month on projects that have little value other than to himself, cronies, ICE, or fighting a useless war.

Serious_Feedback

Forget subsidies. Chinese cars have been focused on the electric market for ~30 years, with *consistent* government support. Note the difference between raw subsidies and government actually focusing on providing a friendly regulatory environment. In China, an EV is easier to get a driver's license for, and can be driven 7 days a week (unlike ICE cars). That's not a subsidy, but it *is* government boosting EV sales. Expecting such policy in the US in e.g. 2005 would be unimaginable, which is why China is kicking the US's ass on BEVs.

veronica-volt

"Palantir, the shadowy tech and surveillance company founded by right-wing billionaire Peter Thiel, is now working with Mexican restaurant chain Chipotle to supposedly track food safety issues. *"Wired* [reports](https://www.wired.com/story/chipotle-is-working-with-palantir-on-food-safety/) that Chipotle is working on a “food safety risk platform” hosted on Foundry, Palantir’s main software platform, compiling data including store pest incidents, employee illnesses, and Health Department scores to come up with each store’s risk level. "It’s not clear how long the partnership has been going on or how widespread it is. As *Wired* notes, almost half of Palantir’s business comes from American corporations including food companies like General Mills, meat supplier Tyson, and \*\*the fast-food restaurant chain Wendy’s.\*\* But the tech company is better known for its [contracts](https://fed-spend.com/blog/palantir-government-contracts-deep-dive) with the federal government, totaling billions of dollars. Under Trump, its projects have included building a [master database](https://newrepublic.com/post/195904/trump-palantir-data-americans) on every American and developing [an app](https://newrepublic.com/post/205333/ice-palantir-app-raid-deportation) to help ICE agents determine where to raid next. "Chipotle confirmed the partnership to *Wired* but didn’t comment further, and Palantir didn’t immediately respond to the publication. Earlier this year, the restaurant chain was linked to the [recall](https://newrepublic.com/post/214144/donald-trump-taylor-farms-recall-jalapenos-explosive-diarrhea-outbreak) of jalapeño peppers from supplier Taylor Farms due to the risk of salmonella poisoning." \-https://newrepublic.com/post/215501/chipotle-palantir

Zofobread

China has heavy tariffs on the USA and has effectively kept US ICE vehicles out of the country for decades.

NotTooShahby

EVs aren’t like ICE engines, one requires expertise over a long period of time, something which auto manufacturers can boast, the other requires a robust supply chain, something we’ve been struggling with. tbf, we’re trying now, there’s factories being built for batteries and other components, but it’s not the same.

Pulga_Atomica

Minny has experience with ice. ICE, on the other hand, [not so good with ice](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZOyp6WwXCDI)

joebraga2

The solar part is something that gets surprisingly little attention in these discussions. The purchase price is only one part of the economics of a car. Once someone can generate part of their own electricity, the energy economics of an EV become fundamentally different from an ICE vehicle because the owner can actually produce some of the vehicle's fuel at home. Obviously that doesn't work for everyone. You need the right home, charging access, enough solar generation and suitable driving patterns. But that's another reason I think competition matters. Don't just compare sticker prices. Compare purchase price, energy cost, maintenance, depreciation and actual real-world use. Then let consumers decide which technology works for them.

Tax_Life

It's proven that EVs are far better when it comes to emissions over their lifetime. They're a bit worse when it comes to environmental impact directly after manufacturing but ICE cars need oil/gas processing which isn't exactly environmentally friendly either. So they actually are better for the environment if you apply the same standards to ICE cars.

joebraga2

One thing I think is missing from this discussion is that Brazil has already been through an earlier wave of Chinese automakers, and it shows that being Chinese, having lower manufacturing costs or offering more equipment does not automatically guarantee success. Chery entered Brazil in 2009, long before the current EV boom. Its first attempt was not particularly successful. The cars could offer a lot of equipment for the money, but the products, powertrains, dealer experience and overall strategy were not yet sufficiently adapted to Brazilian conditions and consumer expectations. Several early models disappeared. But Chery stayed. It built a factory, accumulated experience and eventually partnered with CAOA, a Brazilian automotive group with decades of experience in the local industry. CAOA had previously built its business through Ford dealerships, imported Hyundai vehicles and eventually manufactured Hyundai vehicles in Brazil. The result is that today's CAOA Chery is almost unrecognizable compared with the Chery that entered Brazil more than 15 years ago. And now CAOA is doing something similar with Changan. Changan is a separate Chinese automaker, but CAOA is using its Brazilian industrial and commercial infrastructure to manufacture and sell Changan products here as CAOA Changan. That is important because this competition is no longer limited to cheap imported EVs. Chinese-designed ICE, mild-hybrid, hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles are increasingly competing with traditional manufacturers too. JAC is a useful counterexample because its history went almost in the opposite direction. JAC entered Brazil in 2011 with a huge marketing campaign, quickly established a large dealer network and initially sold quite well. It promised Brazilian manufacturing, but that passenger-car factory never materialized. Over time its light-vehicle operation shrank dramatically and most of that original dealer footprint disappeared. So Brazil has already demonstrated something important: Chinese origin alone doesn't guarantee success. Chery initially struggled, stayed, learned, localized and found a strong Brazilian industrial partner. JAC had a much stronger initial launch but failed to establish the same industrial footprint and eventually became a much smaller player. Now we're watching a much larger second wave. BYD took over Ford's former industrial complex in Camaçari. GWM took over Mercedes-Benz's former factory in Iracemápolis. Renault and Geely are expanding their industrial relationship. GM itself is assembling Chinese-developed Chevrolet EVs in Ceará through products originating from its Chinese ecosystem with SAIC and Wuling. Toyota and BYD have a 50/50 EV R&D joint venture. Tesla complicates the story even further. Tesla is one of America's biggest automotive technology success stories, but its battery supply chain has always been international. Panasonic was fundamental to its early scale, while its later battery sourcing expanded to suppliers including LG Energy Solution and CATL. So the modern auto industry is already much more interconnected than “Chinese technology vs American technology” suggests. And this is why I find the comparison with Japanese and Korean automakers so interesting. Foreign manufacturers don't necessarily remain importers forever. They enter a market. Sometimes they fail. Sometimes they learn. They change products, establish dealerships, find local suppliers, partner with domestic companies, hire local engineers and workers, and eventually manufacture locally. Brazil watched Japanese and Korean companies go through versions of that process. Now we're watching Chinese companies do it. And localization gives us a much better experiment for the question this thread started with. If BYD, GWM, Changan or another Chinese manufacturer loses most of its price advantage after producing in Brazil, Europe or eventually the US with local workers and local regulations, then Chinese wages, subsidies and domestic production conditions were clearly responsible for a large part of that advantage. But if a significant advantage survives localization, then wages cannot be the whole explanation. Battery costs, vertical integration, platform architecture, supplier organization, procurement, automation, manufacturing scale, development cycles and margins all become part of the answer. That's why I don't think the most interesting experiment is simply importing millions of Chinese cars into the US. Make them manufacture there. Make them employ American workers. Make them comply with American safety, labor and environmental rules. Then compare the products. Brazil is increasingly doing exactly that experiment with Brazilian workers. And after watching what happened with Chery and JAC over the last 15+ years, I wouldn't assume the result in advance. Localization can expose weaknesses just as easily as it can expose advantages.

joebraga2

There is another part of this discussion that makes the whole “Chinese auto industry vs American auto industry” framing much less clean than it sounds. Tesla itself is a good example. Tesla is American, but its battery supply chain has never been purely American. Panasonic was crucial to Tesla’s early scale, and Tesla later diversified its battery sourcing to companies including LG Energy Solution and CATL. So even the most successful American pure-EV manufacturer was built around a global, heavily Asian battery supply chain. Brazil makes this even more interesting because we are watching several versions of this industrial integration happen at the same time. BYD took over Ford’s former industrial complex in Camaçari and is progressively localizing production. GWM took over Mercedes-Benz’s former factory in Iracemápolis. Renault and Geely are expanding their industrial relationship in Brazil. GM itself is now assembling Chinese-developed Chevrolet EVs in Ceará. The Spark EUV and Captiva EV come from GM’s Chinese industrial ecosystem with SAIC and Wuling and are being assembled locally. Toyota and BYD have a 50/50 EV R&D joint venture. Nissan has had a major industrial relationship with Dongfeng in China for decades. At some point, asking whether a technology is simply “Chinese” or “Western” stops having an easy answer. And Brazil gives us another interesting experiment: range. If you look only at Brazilian homologation figures, some EVs can look surprisingly short-legged. Cars with batteries in the 50-60 kWh range can receive official Inmetro/PBEV range figures around 300 km. But the Brazilian number is deliberately conservative. Inmetro does not simply publish the raw laboratory result. Adjustment factors are applied to produce a more conservative real-world reference. The problem is that a lot of automotive discussion here then treats that number almost as the maximum distance the EV can realistically travel. Owner experience often looks very different. We now have EV owners driving these cars across Brazil, including mountainous areas and routes that climb from the coast onto the plateau. There are owners and independent tests substantially exceeding the official Inmetro range, and under favorable conditions some results get much closer to WLTP. Larger-battery EVs can exceed 400 km in real use even when their Brazilian homologated number looks much less impressive. Obviously that does not mean WLTP is guaranteed real-world range. Drive at 120 km/h, climb continuously, add headwind, temperature changes or heavy HVAC use and consumption changes dramatically. But this exposes an interesting asymmetry in how cars are discussed here. When a small 1.0-liter ICE car achieves an exceptionally good km/l result, automotive enthusiasts and media are perfectly happy to show what the car can achieve under favorable real-world conditions. With EVs, I often see the opposite. The conservative Inmetro figure gets repeated as the defining range of the vehicle, while owner consumption and independent road results receive much less attention. A much better way to discuss EV range is to show the homologation numbers and then show actual energy consumption. If an EV does 12, 15, 18 or 22 kWh/100 km, anyone can understand what a 40, 60 or 90 kWh battery means under different conditions. That's much more informative than saying “this is a 300 km car” because one homologation system printed 300 km on the label. And all of this comes back to the original Detroit question. Brazil is becoming a useful real-world laboratory because Chinese manufacturers are no longer simply shipping Chinese-built cars here. They are buying former Western factories, hiring Brazilian workers and progressively localizing production. At the same time, established American, European and Japanese manufacturers are increasingly using Chinese partners, platforms, batteries, engineering or complete vehicles. Europe is moving in a similar direction as Chinese manufacturers localize more production there. That gives us an opportunity to separate two things that are constantly mixed together in this discussion. If Chinese manufacturers lose most of their price advantage when they manufacture in Brazil, Europe or eventually the US with local workers, then Chinese wages, subsidies and domestic production conditions were clearly doing much of the work. But if a substantial advantage survives localization, then wages cannot be the entire explanation. Battery costs, vertical integration, EV-specific platforms, supplier organization, procurement, manufacturing scale, automation, development cycles and margins all have to enter the discussion. That's why I would actually find an American-built Chinese EV much more interesting than another imported Chinese EV. Require American production. American wages. American safety and environmental standards. Apply the same rules to everyone. Then compare the products. If an American-built BYD ends up costing roughly the same as an equivalent American-built GM or Ford, we learn something important about where the original Chinese cost advantage came from. But if it can still compete aggressively on price, equipment and efficiency while paying American production costs, then tariffs didn't answer the underlying competitiveness question. They only delayed the experiment.

joebraga2

I think several comments here are mixing two separate questions. Yes, China has lower manufacturing wages, industrial subsidies matter, and the US has legitimate reasons to care about trade rules. I'm not arguing that Chinese manufacturers should simply get unrestricted access to the American market. What I'm questioning is the idea that cheap labor alone explains why Chinese cars are cheaper, and that keeping them out therefore solves Detroit's competitiveness problem. Brazil is becoming a useful real-world test. GM, Volkswagen, Fiat and Toyota have been manufacturing here for decades. They already have factories, established suppliers, huge dealer networks, brand recognition and enormous scale. Chinese manufacturers entered with almost none of those advantages. Their cars initially had to be shipped across the ocean, pay import duties and Brazilian taxes, establish distribution and dealerships from scratch, and compete against locally produced ICE cars. Yet they were still able to price BEVs and PHEVs directly against conventional ICE vehicles. And now Chinese manufacturers are increasingly localizing production in Brazil. That makes the labor argument even more interesting, because progressively more of the production cost is Brazilian rather than Chinese. So where does the remaining price competitiveness come from? That's the part I think deserves more attention: vertical integration, battery costs, dedicated EV platforms, fewer components, supplier structure, manufacturing efficiency, scale, software/electronics integration and possibly lower margins while entering a new market. It doesn't mean subsidies and Chinese labor costs are irrelevant. It means they probably aren't the entire explanation. There's also an interesting counterargument several people here have raised: protecting Detroit's highly profitable US market could give GM and Ford the cash and time they need to become more competitive elsewhere. That could work. But then the important question is what they do with that protection. GM can make excellent money selling large pickups and SUVs in the US while simultaneously competing with BYD, GWM and Geely in places like Brazil. If those American profits finance better platforms, lower production costs and more competitive electrified cars globally, then the protected home market is buying useful time. If instead protection allows Detroit to remain increasingly dependent on high-margin trucks and SUVs while competitors gain scale and manufacturing experience in the rest of the world, then protection may simply be hiding the competitiveness problem. That's why I'd actually like to see Chinese manufacturers subjected to the hardest possible version of this test in the US. Don't give them unrestricted imports. Require local production. Require American wages, American safety standards and American regulations. Then let an American-built BYD compete against an American-built GM or Ford. If the price advantage largely disappears, then labor, subsidies and imports really were doing much of the work. But if a locally produced Chinese EV can still compete on price with a locally produced American ICE vehicle or EV, then Detroit has a manufacturing-cost problem that tariffs alone aren't going to solve.

SanDisk_Made_Me_Rich

We'll give you $5,000 if you help us win the midterms **and I'll be sending our finest ICE goons to your polling station to harass you** *lol you're going to need to give me more than $5,000 to deal with that shit*

QuoteHaunting

I think the question is posed incorrectly. Yes, the US car manufacturers are protected from Chinese imports, but they are also currently protected from making the transfer from ICE to EV vehicles, and the US is falling behind and will be left behind. We may get to drive ICE vehicles for another 20 or 30 years, but eventually there will be a tipping point in the global market where ICE vehicles are not competitive. That my have already happened in China. When ypu read about the collapse of the Chinese auto market, that is only for ICE vehicles. EVs in China continue to expand, and China has invested in their infrastructure. They are investing in Africa's EV infrastructure. Europe has already gone that route. Only the US has doubled down on ICE vehicles. That protects US manufacturing for now, but when that dam brakes they will be in big trouble.

UncommonSense12345

Ya I’ve read up on this and it’s pretty terrifying. It’s why I get a little bothered by the whole “EV good, ICE bad” talking point of Reddit. EVs are great in terms of pollution from the car once made. But the process to make them is currently not a great proposition environmentally or human rights wise… doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push for EVs we just need to be aggressive in making their production not a disaster for the earth and the people involved in production.

fatbunyip

No.  US auto industry is being artificially supported by dumb govt policy.  In a few years they will be minor players. The writing is not only on the wall, it has been photographed, posted on Instagram, mailed and also emailed as a word document attachment.  The rest of the world is going EV. When Africa and India develop they aren't gonna have ICE cars. US automakers are going to become boutique manufacturers catering to the US market.  The dumb thing isn't necessarily the protectionism. It's that despite the protectionism, the US car makers aren't even trying to make EVs.  Gonna be like when US was using cheques and the rest of the world was like lol wtf are cheques 

Miserable-Rain235

haha true, he'd surpass Buchanan if he could. Would nuking iran be bullish? But also, remember when ICE was killing US citizens? That does surpass coolidge in principle. Did coolidge have migrant concentration camps?

big-papito

"Agree with his policies" = "I like ICE beating the shit out of libs and brown people". That's what that phrase usually means, because they NEVER specify which policies they like.

Aggressive_Lex350

Isn't his ICE equipment made from Canada?

kawski23

Mexicans calling ICE on themselves

Ok_Collection_1889

Yeah but tarriffs and wars. Not to mention all the other shite like the east wing, golden dome, air farce one, the reflecting pool, ICE aka Nazi youth and don't forget the wall. He's spunking money on vanity projects. The latest promise is $5000 which will cost the tax payer $1 trillion. Not him. You

ketya-

Imagine where nasdaq would have been if we didn’t have the orange man at all? \- no tariff war \- no Iran war, oil crisis, food prices \- no ICE and associated expenses \- no continuous interruptions We could have Nasdaq hit 35k

Sawyer_Anderson

We got a french person in the crowd? Where is ICE

AdWitty4949

Sure. It’s one thing to relate his influence on a stock in context of trading, but most of these posts have zero to do with that and you know it. When I say you people I am directly referring to the last many months in this forum where I USED to see cool stuff about stocks and now it’s “Trump this ICE that White house this pedophile that”. I get it everyone hates Trump.

Strict-Cup-4775

Remember when ICE deported hundreds of legal South Korean Hyundai workers in Georgia? Why would any foreign company manufacture cars in the US?

Objective_Oven7673

They should just build them inside all the ICE facilities that eventually get abandoned. Sell Alligator Alcatraz to Meta and let them deal with downtime due to flooding.