LEO

playstationjeans

As of right now, there's a developing boom in the space industry. Rockets are becoming more cost efficient to send satellites into LEO space. Lots of defense companies are already ramping up development for their own tech. So companies like RKLB, ASTS, PL, KRMN, Airbus, RX, And Lockheed, will all need more Tungsten. From Gemini, "Tungsten is a critically important, indispensable material in aerospace for rockets and satellites. Key Applications and Importance: Rocket Nozzles & Thrusters: Because of its high melting point, tungsten is ideal for rocket nozzles, combustion chambers, and throat linings. It handles extreme temperatures in both conventional and advanced ion engines. Thermal Protection Systems: Tungsten's ability to withstand high temperatures makes it essential for heat shields, particularly during atmospheric re-entry. Counterweights & Ballast: Its, extreme density allows for small, high-mass components, making it perfect for balancing satellite components, helicopter rotors, and guidance gyroscopes. Radiation Shielding: Tungsten is used to protect sensitive electronic components in satellites and to shield crews in space habitation modules. Structural Integrity: It offers superior wear and corrosion resistance in high-altitude environments. With increasing demand for deeper space exploration, tungsten’s role in developing efficient, high-performance propulsion systems and durable shielding is expanding." Tungsten is also critical for the development of Small fusion Reactots. OKLO, and the other ones. Thank you for opening my eyes to this play. I'm even more convinced now about my space and SMR plays. I'm going to pay attention to more Greenland news and see if those stocks are all benifiting from those events.

BreadCoLLC

Considering a LEAP Put on Globalstar (GSAT) Business Description: Founded in 1991, Satellite Communication Infrastructure provider, providing service to mobile wireless devices (cell phones). Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) player, with a lot of time in the space....per Chat GPT -- Globalstar is a satellite communications company focused on low-earth orbit (LEO) connectivity for voice, data, IoT, and asset tracking. It’s one of the older LEO players, but its relevance jumped materially in recent years due to a very specific — and very valuable — partnership. Leading Indicators: * P/S > 30x * F P/E >7,000 * EPS this year = 106.38% * ROA / ROE / ROIC = -3.07% / -12.45% / -6.39% * Profit Margin = -22% Industry Notes * Extremely Capex heavy * Customer Concentration to AAPL * Long time player, IPO'd in 1995 * Fiber Build outs have been preferred and more reliable Thesis: This growth is heavily event driven as (i) they received equity investment from AAPL amounting to \~20%; (ii) and increase in acquisition speculation from Spacex. Apple has been a customer to GSAT since 2022 (from my brief research). My understanding is that this equity stake was a way to keep GSAT alive so that Apple could continue to maintain their emergency services on their iPhones for devices that were out of cell-coverage. Apple isnt a full guarantee, but there should be some consideration to their investment and willingness to let GSAT fail. SpaceX acquisition seems like pure speculation. The acquisition makes sense from a Starlink integration as both GSAT and Starlink operate LEO. However, this would not be an asset acquisition, it would be either (i) a defensive play for Starlink out of fears that Apple would be acquiring their way into sat-telco, (ii) or customer acquisition play...which would be very expensive. ASTS is a new player with a lot of forward momentum. In my experience, the legacy telco players (of any time) struggle to pivot their business models. Lastly, GSAT growth is going to be very capital hungry for growth (researching now to verify). I do not think their is a strong debt market for them to tap into, and Apple Equity can only go so far. Capex can quickly yield negative returns on a failed launch, and for a company with this much experience, the markets would be less forgiving of an event.

Trethrowaway998811

My man you’ve opened a door to a brand new play for me. Summary of my DD: Filtronic an absolute sleeper monster. 1. ⁠10% equity stake from SpaceX, which is due to IPO this year 2. ⁠Revenue ramping like mad YoY 3. ⁠Net positive income already 4. ⁠Not insane P/E 5. ⁠Critical RF component supplier for commercial and government customers 6. ⁠Massive expected growth in LEO requirements both commercial and government security needs 7. ⁠Ramping production with their new facility to meet massive demand Question: are we just early, or am I just regarded?

Trethrowaway998811

Found this post since the Filtronic sub is dead/locked down by a single mod. Am I missing something, or is Filtronic an absolute sleeper monster? 1. 10% equity stake from SpaceX, which is due to IPO this year 2. Revenue ramping like mad YoY 3. Net positive income already 4. Not insane P/E 5. Critical RF component supplier for commercial and government customers 6. Massive expected growth in LEO requirements both commercial and government security needs 7. Ramping production with their new facility to meet massive demand Question: are we just early, or am I just regarded?

chainer3000

For all I care the company launches pop tarts into LEO to rotate above starving kids in Africa, just want it to go up another buck or two to cash these calls

Skenne005

Nokia I think is a better option for space telecommunications investment. Some info. AST SpaceMobile is building a space-based cellular broadband network — a constellation of low Earth orbit (LEO) satellites that can connect directly to ordinary mobile phones (4G/5G) without special hardware. The goal is to fill coverage gaps and extend service to remote or underserved areas worldwide.  Nokia’s role in this collaboration includes: • Supplying radio access network (RAN) equipment, such as Nokia AirScale base stations and supporting network management systems. • Helping AST SpaceMobile integrate terrestrial-grade mobile network technology into the space architecture. • Providing engineering, technical support, and optimization expertise.  This partnership stems from a multi-year deal signed in 2022, under which Nokia’s cellular technology supports AST SpaceMobile’s vision of a true direct-to-device (D2D) satellite service that works with regular smartphones and mobile devices.  ⸻ 🚀 Recent Progress & Achievements • World’s first space-based 5G cellular broadband connectivity: AST SpaceMobile and Nokia achieved this milestone, connecting everyday smartphones to satellites at 5G speeds — a major proof-of-concept for future global coverage. 

SchwiftySchwifferson

That is not my only objection. I’m telling you that these people are not LEO, because LEO would have to comply with laws. These people operate OUTSIDE the bounds of law.

SchwiftySchwifferson

Civilian law enforcement officers would give names and badge numbers on request. These people don’t. Civilian law enforcement officers have to regularly comply with public information request laws about who they arrested, when and where they’re being sent. These guys don’t. These people are not LEO. If anything they’re like secret police like the gestapo.

DrestinBlack

Hang tight, we’re coming back to pick you up on our way to LEO

Present-Fudge-3156

I got in Eutelsat last week. It's considered Europe's version of Starlink but it's more B2B and defense oriented right now. They are getting more LEO satellites all the time though which will better their odds commercially.

TaberAber

From what I understand mission details like where they're landing is entirely up to NASA. And they still got paid for IM2. There's going to be a lot of trial and error in space. The data gathered from just the "trial" is still very valuable. And landers are no longer going to be the main focus of the company. The money maker is expected to be the NSN that was awarded to IM in 2024. The contract itself is worth potentially 4.82 billion and IM is expected to build a lunar data relay satellite constellation**.** Once built IM is looking to charge customers by the minute to use their services. And with the acquisition of Lanteris IM is hoping to have LEO, MEO, GEO, and LUNAR satellites. Nearest catalyst is also the LTV contract thats worth up to 4.6 billion. Announcement of the award is expected this month and IM is one of three finalists for that award.

moorhound

And most people arent worldwide travelers that *need* global cellphone coverage. Like, who the fuck is this even marketing to, Carmen Sandiego? I can see the cost savings in LEO vs. ground-based tower build buildouts, but we've *already spent* a half-trillion on 5g+ infrastructure, and we're just gonna say "fuck that" and switch to higher-latency LEO?

FrofroMo

True, but none of the other 2000+ companies are deploying 2400 sqft satellites into Low Earth Orbit (LEO). My guess is that AST wouldn’t have made the list unless they require 2400 sqft satellites in LEO for the Golden Dome.

rdblaw

If only ASTS had more shorts we’d be launching into LEO

nineteen_eightyfour

I think it’s LEO

ViciousSemicircle

Except for the parts where one is subsurface maritime and the other is LEO, they provide completely different services for completely different markets, and just about everything else?

Purpletorque

By then BO will be able to launch ASTS. But the reality is that SpaceX needs to build its launch business and there is increasing competition. They have also launched Amazon LEO satellites which is even more of a direct competitor to Starlink. The big prize is Mars and while Starlink is currently SpaceX’s major funding source SpaceX needs credibility reliability and all of that to succeed snd to keep focused on the ultimate prize.

Successful-Tea-5733

Yup, I saw his EO ordering lesbians to drive their cars at LEO's who are telling them to stop. Yeah, Trumps fault...

jasandliz

Wait, did he shoot Renee Good? I can’t see the resemblance because the in the video the LEO wore a mask. 

shotparrot

In addition to AWS and more retail efficiencies, Amazon LEO will open for business in 2026. When more satellites are launched and they open their internet service, the stock price will go up.

No-Tangerine-8166

the fundamental are insane, Thursdays analyst warning for ASTS was a breath of sanity — question is when do I place my puts? March June or Sept?  Source: I lead LEO comm infrastructure for many years 

Round_Hat_2966

I am a bit more scared of cyclicality affecting launch providers. ASTS is basically cell towers in LEO. They will trade at inflated multiples in a space bubble, but the profitability of the core business (once it is established) shouldn’t be as directly impacted by space capex from big tech, government, etc. I expect ASTS to have a more inherently stable business model.

LostAbbott

Maybe I have missed them, but I keep waiting to see numbers.  Like how much weight can their jets carry?  What are the decibel levels of the engine at launch?  How many airports are able to support launch of their jets? From there I wonder what the use case actually is.  Are they looking to launch LEO stuff?  Is their stuff better than what Virgin Galactic has?  Are we flying people from LA to NYC/TOK/LON?   Seems like the news of actually flying is good, but I need to see some actual logistics sorted before I get too excited.

Beverlydringus

TSAT, let me know what you think. Its core business (GEO) has been around forever, but the LEO angle is what’s interesting.. Cdn. Gov very focused on military spending right now so I love the partnership.

Candid_Relief_321

LEO is the ticker?

Beverlydringus

Have you looked into Telesat for the LEO angle in Canada?

cladclad

Masked, unidentifiable, no body cam, immediately runs away from the scene of the shooting. Kills a mother to a 6 year old with Bluey stickers on her car.  Nice LEO we have here.  

ksigley

He isn't an LEO. Release the footage taken from his phone.

True-Emu5713

A car is a deadly weapon. The incidents of cars being used as a weapon on LEO’s is up a ridiculous level. Attacks on ICE agents in particular are up 1000 ish %. They are doing a job that they are hired to do. Illegal immigration’s illegal, don’t have to like it.

lightning_whirler

No kidding. Dashcam video of a LEO pointing his gun at the driver as she accelerates toward him wouldn't play well on reddit.

No-Essay-9008

Oh? That's a mistake. Amazon is going to rival SpaceX (now valued at aboit 1.5 Trillion, with Starlink worth about 800 billion of that). Amazon LEO (previously Kuiper) is still in its infancy, but growing, 180 sats so far. They don't sell yet, but when they do, far faster and stronger then Starlink. Supposedly 800Mbs base speeds. It will have srong intergration with Amazon Web Services. Assuming they execute well this year, it's projected to start selling soon. If Starlink is worth 800 Billion, LEO should have a similar valuation. (Or cut SpaceX valuation and redistribute). Either way, Amazon will go up from where it is.

Advanced_Zucchini_45

"Local LEO" are welcome to try.

IntradayGuy

This was tragic, its sad this little girl though she had todo this stuff to begin with and got killed because she was entitled and though she was untouchable She was the lead car of vehicles blocking Federal agents in vehicles, her wife got out and was filming... she wasn't some innocent bystander she put herself there.. then she didnt follow commands even under a drawn gun then she accelerated and hit/bumped whatever you want to call it a agent.. who shot THROUGH the windshield and killed her please... I hope some of you guys that downvote me try this with a local LEO and you get body bagged

leblond_00135

There is so much other subs to post that shit, can we just focus on finance and wallstreet stuff... Honestly this is so retarded, a woman got shot because she drove toward a LEO while trying to escape, well fucking dah...

IntradayGuy

Uh b!tch are you a LEO? because iv been on the other side.. go do that to any federal or state law enforcement you know damn well its justified and its not murder lol you can phrase it and twist it however you want.. she should have stopped and been detained or whatever it was.. but she hit the officer with the driver side of the vehicle its plain as day.. you see him kicked off to the side

Figgybaum

What happens when ICE doesn't use court? What happens if they pull her and toss her in a cell and send her to a foreign prison with no paperwork on where and how? I'm not arguing, but this ICE is not the we'll see you in court kind of LEO

SmugRapi

I caught the ninja edit, nice try. Your insults don't change the fact that running over Federal LEO is a bad idea.

thrashmetal_octopus

Cops do this all the time, I wish it got as much attention. Stand in front of a car shoot them dead and then step out of the way. Oldest LEO murder trick in the book

ratbaby86

Right. I honestly want to know: what legal justification do they have to stop this woman who at worst was stopping traffic? Isn't that a city LEO thing? Are they going to say she looked brown so that's our justification?

FarrisAT

Is that true? Rocketlab has ~20x the cost per KG to LEO.

FarrisAT

Is Rocketlab actually worth $55bn? They launch ~10 small rockets a year for about $80mn for each launch. SpaceX launches 100x more KG to LEO for $50mn per launch. Seems to me like this is a monopolized industry with SpaceX having economies of scale.

okiewxchaser

Elon is the reason, international customers want LEO access without the political shit

PatrickWhelan

$AMZN Three major drivers materializing in 2026, first, the European Sovereign Cloud for AWS is looking more and more like a permanent EU lock in with the current geopolitical tension between US and the rest of the world, and will differentiate AWS against other cloud providers. Second, of the major tech companies AMZN has been both restrained in AI investment, and focused on infrastructure, I think this is a less risky posture than most other big tech companies who are burning cash up in AI services that still seem a little unclear on their pathway to viability, I'm sure some of those big bets will pay off, but some won't, and Amazon seems to have positioned itself to not take on too much risk here, and third, LEO getting service live alongside a bonkers SpaceX IPO is going to give a major lift to the stock. Amazon is going to have a viable starlink competitor here and the market is still not pricing this in. All that is on top of the traditional Amazon strength in Retail, where on a slightly longer timeline their robotics investment are going to continue to drive competitive advantage in the logistics world. $AMZN is a stock I really struggle to see underperforming this year, you can find higher risk/reward plays for sure but I'm thinking this is a smart hold for the year

Purpletorque

Just to add some color, each satellite is 6.1 tons and when unfurled is 2,400 square feet which is a larger footprint than my house at 2,000 square feet at 50 feet by 40 feet. They are also higher and at an inclination so they can cover more ground. Think of how a flashlight covers the ground when it is higher up and tilted a bit as opposed to pointing straight down closer to the floor. Starlink will need about 15,000 satellites for their new D2D program they are working on because they are a lot smaller and need to be closer to the ground to communicate effectively. They also will fall out of orbit faster the lower they are and will need to be replaced a lot sooner. Satellites in LEO travel at 17,000 miles per hour so if they are smaller and lower, there will be a lot more sat to sat transfers as they travel overhead and this switching even if done seamlessly to the end user can cause power drains on the phone.

Ill_Job4090

Its a scam. Look up what it costs to send up a ton of cargo into LEO and look at a picture of a data center. Spoiler alert: Its in the ballpark of the GDP of entire countries.

Organic_Lie8072

There are two EnSilica employees named as investors on this patent posted on X $ASTS https://search.app/3CgvD  NEW PATENT GRANTED FOR AST SPACEMOBILE   The patent is "Mutual Coupling Based Calibration" and was invented by Sriram Jayasimha (AST), Christos Kasparis (ENS), Peter King (AST), David Wheeler (ENS) and Huiwen Yao(AST).  Why is this important?  This builds on prior technology for massive phased-array antennas for LEO satellites in space.   The big upgrade?   Ditching CDMA sequences for OFDM-BPSK in mutual-coupling calibration.  Why does this matter?  It dramatically improves phase estimation accuracy (critical for AST's precise advanced beamforming)  Better performance on amplitude & group delay  Shorter calibration sequences possible which results in less interference & downtime during operations  It is ideal for dynamic LEO environments with rapid temperature swings affecting T/R modules.   Calibration runs simultaneously with service beams which results in minimal disruption! 

c-u-in-da-ballpit

Plenty of space exposure in their | Company | Key LEO Engagement | | :--- | :--- | | **MDA Space** | Prime contractor for large-scale LEO constellations including Telesat Lightspeed and Globalstar; recently invested in dedicated commercial orbital launch infrastructure. | | **Airbus** | Global leader in mass-production of LEO satellites through Airbus OneWeb Satellites; currently developing advanced optical and Earth observation constellations. | | **Kongsberg Gruppen** | Operates KSAT, the world’s most extensive commercial ground station network for LEO; recently deployed orbiting ground stations to minimize data latency. | | **BAE Systems** | Provides "Space as a Service" commercial rideshare missions and developed the Azalea™ LEO cluster for near-real-time intelligence and edge processing. | | **Safran** | Specializes in LEO-PNT (Positioning, Navigation, and Timing) to provide GPS-independent signals; provides high-efficiency electric propulsion for LEO maneuvering. | | **Leonardo SpA** | Through Thales Alenia Space, it is a primary builder for future commercial LEO destinations (private space stations) and various satellite subsystems. | | **Saab AB** | Leading the development of VDES-based LEO nanosatellites to provide global, secure data connectivity for the commercial maritime and IoT sectors. |

The-zKR0N0S

I think that space will be dominated by a small number of companies, but a number that will be greater than one. I think Peter Beck’s thinking on what types of companies will dominate space 20+ years from now is correct. The huge space companies of the future will (i) be able to design and manufacture their own satellites in a vertically integrated way, (ii) be able to launch their own assets into orbit at a competitive internal cost, and (iii) provide services from space. SpaceX has clearly already done i, ii, and iii for Starlink. Rocket Lab largely has i, although they are looking to acquire additional payload capabilities. They will have ii that can be launched at a rapid cadence within the next 5 years. Their plan is to have iii once Neutron is flying with a high enough cadence which i peg at 5-10 years from now. Blue Origin is focused on ii and large scale infrastructure. Northrop Grumman, L3 Harris, Lockheed Martin, etc are primarily focused on i. Amazon’s project LEO and ASTS are focused on iii. Relativity, Stoke, and others appear to be initially focused on ii. There will absolutely be competition, not only from SpaceX. However, I expect the space industry to be ultimately dominated by maybe 4-5 players in 2050. As of now, it looks like it will be predominantly be SpaceX, Blue Origin, Rocket Lab, and maybe a couple others.

SimpleJackWithUsNow

Realistically, once Neutron successfully launches, we'll see another spike. They will be able to get more profit per launch. (Their current Electron rockets carry only 300kg, Neutron is designed to carry 13000kg per launch) Then they will have some cost in creating the new Neutron rocket fleet which will give them better profits. so free cash flow from neutron will be slim for another year or two. Practically, I would expect R&D for another class of rockets after they finish with Neutron. Falcon 9 can carry 22000kg and Falcon heavy can carry 63000kg to LEO (low earth orbit). There's no reason to stop with Neutron and they probably won't. With a fully functional Neutron fleet, I see their upper limit being 300-400 billion. If they develop something which competes with SpaceX level of capacity, then you can justify SpaceX levels of valuation, but for now, .

ToSeeAgainAgainAgain

re: ASTS, they need 100 satellites to reach full global coverage, the extra 160~ sats are mostly needed to improve signal handover. And no, ASTS doesn't need launch capabilities, they can hire any Launch Provider, and in fact have excess money for that and have already pre-booked launches with ISRO, SpaceX, and BlueOrigin, enough to ship 70 sats to LEO

ercpck

Rapidly catching up? Is not even close. Currently, SpaceX has 4 boosters with at least 30 launches, and another 6 boosters with at least 20 launches. Name another company with reusable rockets that is actually flying commercial payloads at scale, that is actually reaching orbit, and reusing boosters at scale like that (and not some paper rocket). ASTS does not have launch capabilities, and they will need a constellation of hundreds of satellites if they want to stay in LEO and achieve any meaningful capability. (Latency is constrained by the speed of light, and GEO satellites require an orbit of ~32,000km, adding too much latency to the mix, so having a few GEO satellites, like echostar or directv is not a reasonable play for ASTS). ASTS will either end up bankrupt or acquired by someone else. BO could become a reasonably profitable space contractor (basically replacing ULA), but Kuiper at this point remains at their current pace, at least a decade away. (The move to hire Tory Bruno is in line with this). RKLB is a reasonable play, Peter Beck is a great guy, but it will never be (and I don't think they don't want to be) a reasonable competitor to SpaceX. And this is all talking about Falcon 9, not talking about any of the new stuff they're cooking in Texas. I don't like Elon, but I'll throw money behind SpaceX any day.

shotparrot

There’s also Amazons LEO. how do you feel about that?

Flipslips

Dude, you are wrong here. You need to quit talking about things you don’t understand All debris down to 10cm is constantly tracked by NASA. Debris down to 3mm is routinely (though not constantly) checked by radar. (https://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/faq/) An explosion is not anywhere near enough to launch pieces into significantly different orbits. You are underestimating gravity and atmospheric drag. A brief explosion may fling debris a few km MAX, it would never ever go into any long term orbit from an original LEO orbit. Remember, rockets need to fire for 10s of minutes to reach higher orbits. A brief explosion would not do anything.

soldat21

Sorry, my info is outdated. I thought they still had ~20 tons to LEO. New Glenn can do 45 tons and Falcon 64 tons, and price wise info says they are competitive. I didn’t know that! If spacex gets starship working though, they’ll be again a generation ahead.

juventinn1897

I like this company BKSY that does live imaging with LEO satellites. They have contracts with US govt and other govnts for tactical satellite imaging. The financials have been coming thru to profitability, and they hold a decent cash pile. They could be essential for these proxy wars that are igniting worldwide. Only 700m cap, massive room to grow.

RanDumbPlay

Right. It's not just Amazon LEO and Starlink. There are other, smaller players. This is another hype story much like MVIS years ago.

GoldenPresidio

AWS seems to only be a little more disciplined in their cloud deals Kuiper is now named LEO

SoCallMeDeaconBlues1

Mixed thoughts about rklb where it is, it's expensive and I'd like a better entry to buy more but at the same time there's no reason why it can't continue moving up. And as others have said, the entire rocket/orbital/LEO/GEO/etc space is going to continue to get bigger (MUCH bigger IMO). RKLB has a good position rn; no real moat but good contracts and a good product. Honestly with all of these stocks people talk about we still need the broader markets to continue upward, and we can talk all day about why it will or won't. I do like your AUR pick though. For other rocket stocks look into ones that provide not just low earth orbit (LEO) but also geosynchronous orbit (GEO) satellites. There are a few repair companies that are interesting and infrastructure/supply chain companies for all of these space/rocket companies are also gonna do well. What a fun time to be involved with all this, even from an investing/trading point of view. Happy Holidays!

IEgoLift-_-

If you consider RF physics starlink sats can’t have a comparable service to ast (5g full broadband) they struggle with basic texting. There’s a reason why ast has over 50 mno partners while starlink has less than 10. Amazon LEO isn’t a competitor either they do direct to dish not direct to cell. As launch costs have been dropping having your own rocket doesn’t matter, ast has plans for a ~250 sat constellation for full wold coverage with initial upper hemisphere coverage coming around end of 26 with 45-60 sats

Affectionate-Idea690

While AST SpaceMobile (ASTS) is not the only company utilizing low Earth orbit (LEO) for direct-to-cell service, they have achieved several significant "world firsts" in high-speed broadband capabilities for unmodified smartphones. broadband-level speeds (voice, video, and high-speed data) using a standard phone...beating space X, lynx global and global Star...

GiantKrakenTentacle

Space industry isn't the same as space exploration. People are bullish about the commercialization of low earth orbit. Currently demand is limited by the cost per kg to orbit. Reusable rockets have the potential to drive down those costs by 10-100x, while the high barrier to entry for building and operating reusable rockets means margins will remain very high. As these costs come down, entire new industries/use cases for satellites in LEO open up, greatly increasing demand.

Sammie260000

It has very little to do with "space exploration" it's about LEO low earth orbit. The reason we are talking right now is because some company put satellites in space. We make a better crystal for medicine. It's about the national defense. Going to Mars may be sexy, but building and putting satellites around the earth is the meat of what they do.

Pete26l96

AMZN +50% next year. Once Wallstreet acknowledges that it's revenue exceeds that of Google and Microsoft combined, that it has more computational power than any other company, that it's Ad platform is one of the best in the world with Prime Video/Sports, and that LEO is going to unlock new cloud capabilities; The stock is going to fly and join the $4T club as a P/E of 40 is normalized on greater earnings.

Icy_Jelly_315

Overheating data centers? Also space needs redefining to exclude earth orbit, this LEO shit is like climbing on to your house roof and saying Look at me in space

SNCOsmash

Seen a few starlink launches before, at least a few years ago they could launch a large number of their satellites in LEO due to the size of them.

werdnaztluhcs

They have tested their tech tho when you mentioned they haven't ? The MNOs that are backing them seem excited behind the scenes as the service works - yes there have been delays in satellite production but they have been upgrading facilities and new facilities. The moat is still around them for a lot of IP that obviously can be overcome but owning spectrum that spacex paid billions for and having the largest LEO satellites about to start going up in 2 days and then launches every 46 days after. They should be profitable by 2026 here hoping

MatthaeusMaximus

A lot of reasons. I think Rocket lab is a good company, and that they will likely be profitable soon, and that their new rocket could take some market share from SpaceX. However, the position was too large in my portfolio, so movements in the share price were too amplified. Another concern was the AI bubble (and the inflated market overall), which if it bursts, may take the share price down with it. Not because of any major connection between Rocket Lab and AI, but because if investors and institutions get fleeced by the bust, then we could see capital dry up for other capital intensive companies, like Rocket Lab. Also, even if they become profitable and their new rocket is a success, they are still competing with SpaceX, a company with practically limitless capital and a firm grip on gov contracts. And with NASA's budget being gutted, I don't see an increase in demand from them unless the admin suddenly changes course and actually puts money into space exploration. I don't see that trend reversing in the medium term, unless China puts boots on the Moon, but even then Rocket Lab isn't in a position to capitalize on that potentiality. The end of the ISS coming up, and the total lack of a credible replacement also doesn't bode well for LEO commerce. But the most important reason of all; I wanted to lock in some nice gains.

Heavy_Cupcake_6246

How much is it gonna cost to maintain and repair those data centers if they’re up in LEO, can’t imagine that would be cheap or easy to do.

Routine-Earer

What about AST Space Mobile? Biggest unfolding solar panels in LEO. Highest power output afaik.

victorbardyn

You’re arguing against a full-scale Earth datacenter, which no one claimed. The point is incremental orbital compute (inference, preprocessing, routing), not hyperscale training in LEO tomorrow. Solar already powers satellites, Starlink, and military payloads, energy scales with mass, not vibes. Every “Elon side project” people called bullshit (reusable rockets, Starlink, EVs) shipped while Reddit stayed smug. It’s bullish because markets re-rate on credible prototypes + narrative, not final form. If you wait until it “makes sense,” you’re exit liquidity.

EmphasisFrosty3093

Artemis hasn't happened yet because returning any mass from beyond LEO is really fucking expensive. How many thousands of coordinated launches would a mining venture require?

mmmfritz

wellll, its not out of the ordinary. compute is power is it not? i've heard altman talk about compute like its Rhodium. LEO payloads are getting cheaper; not $20,000 per kg like it was 20 years ago. Perhaps closer to $10,000. how many ant miners can you buy for 1kg?

MisterMephistopheIes

"Starlink can easily update their satellites to offer bandwidth to existing cell phones too"  That is scientifically false and not physically possible lol. Starlink satellites are far too small to offer meaningful bandwidth to cell phones without bleeding into adjacent spectrums.  "AST satellites operate at much higher orbits, at a minimum quadrupling latency." Mathematically absurd, ASTS only orbits about 150km higher than Starlink, so about 1-2 milliseconds of latency. Sounds like you are confusing LEO with GEO orbits. It doesn't matter how many satellites Starlink launches, they'll never be able to handle the link loss for cellphones and their tiny antennas, which is why you need to install a Starlink dish to use their service.  ASTS has better margins, has lower capex, lower friction, and can easily scale to 5B devices without shipping a single box. They have contracts with ~40 massive telcos vs individually managing millions of customers, and all they have to do for adoption is have ATT or whoever send out a text to their current customers offering satellite service for an extra $5 a month.

EstateNo833

Moon and beyond is an irrelevant payload IMO.  My group works on Mars exploration, its so fucking worthless honestly. The logistics of 50mil miles are not worth it when we havent even maxed out the potential of LEO. 

Valuable_Sea_4709

> Starship makes money by delivery shitloads of sats to LEO without refueling or human certification. I mean. That's not what's happened, and that's not what NASA paid for. Not a single payload has reached LEO. This is a shipping company that hasn't delivered a single package.

underest

Yes, all countries, international agencies and private companies combined launch about 10% of the total cargo to LEO. The other 90% is SpaceX (will be 95% in two years). Also SpaceX has more active satellites (Starlink) in orbit right now than rest of the world combined. And they are currently the only way to launch astronauts to ISS. And this is all before Starship is operational, which likely will happen in 2026.

I-drink-hot-sauce

Good points, but zooming into irrelevant technical difficulties. Starship makes money by delivery shitloads of sats to LEO without refueling or human certification. Moon and Mars are aspirational, non-financial goals. I can guarantee you $800B valuation does not hinge on petty gov moon contracts nor spacex’ own mars mission, but on starlink’s promise of eating into the ISPs and cellular provider cakes, and most recently, AI centers in space

ShippingValue

No it really isn't. The delta V required from Earth's surface to LEO is very similar, slightly less in fact, as that required from the Belt to LEO. So why would I set up all this mining infrastructure in the belt - at the cost of literal trillions of dollars with current tech - to be able to compete at negative advantage in LEO resource utilization? I am begging y'all - go through the math before you lose all your money supporting a 1 Trillion dollar valuation for a vertically integrated DirecTV competitor.

Catprog

You are looking at it wrong. It is not platinum but iron , water and the like. Get something from the asteroid belt to LEO and you can compete with launching it from Earth.

ShippingValue

The physics and economics don't really work out. E.g. platinum production is on the order of 200 tons per year. If you suddenly show up with a rock and are like 'who wants 20,000 tons of platinum?' the price absolutely craters from a supply glut of 100 years of demand arriving all at once. For the physics, to get something from the asteroid belt to LEO requires about 32X the weight of that something in fuel (if using hydrogen/oxygen)... Making it completely impractical to be shipping shit between earth and the belt using chemical rockets. Tl;DR: until SpaceX is flying something that doesn't have a fuel tank, they aren't mining the belt.

eyerollingsex

_POPE LEO URGES US PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ADMINISTRATION NOT TO ATTEMPT MILITARY OUSTER OF VENEZUELA'S MADURO_ The guy leading child predators doesn’t want to stop drug cartels. Shocking

BearSef

I learned long ago to never bet against him. He has had some cooky ideas that end up turning to gold (let’s not talk about the cyber truck). As someone who has only been involved with terrestrial power generation, I wouldn’t pretend to know if his idea of space solar generation is scalable. Obviously it’s a thing but to the scale required, no idea. The reason I’m doubtful is, unless orbital solar panels can achieve a higher energy density than earth-bound ones, the limitations don’t change. In fact, it would seem to get worse when you factor in the cost to get the materials in LEO as opposed to trucking them to a site.

mardex_5

Tesla was not just a hobby project at all, it was a serious startup founded by 2 engineers to build a mass-production electric sports car using lithium-ion laptop batteries, something no one had tried at scale. They just needed someone to fund the project, and this is where Musk stepped in since he had money. Regarding Starlink, you have OneWeb that does the similar thing and launched the first satellites at the same time as Starlink. Starlink just wins with the scalability, since it has more satellites in the space. LEO (Low Earth Orbit) concept existed decades earlier which was reasearched and came up by NASA. As I said, no one succeeded at scale until SpaceX.

posco12

Quite a few companies are taking a loss from tariffs when internal hardware are imported. I have had Axon for years now and believe in the company. Axon are not just selling products to LEO in the US but all over the world.

Tall_Candidate_8088

It's a weapon and a surveillance system connected to the LEO satellite communications system. They are not trying to do business with it they are trying to control business and science with it.

NearlyPerfect

Police brandish weapons to crowd control. Standard LEO tactics. You can disagree with it but... who cares what you think? You clearly aren't an expert in policing or law.

LogicGate1010

63.5 percent institutional ownership Notice of delisting because of price Beat 2024 Q 3 estimate Cambium Networks Announced Integration Of ONE Network With Starlink To Optimize LEO Satellite Connections Benzinga 2025-10-29T05:18:00-04:00 Cambium Networks (CMBM.NaE) , a leading global provider of networking solutions, today announced integration of its Cambium ONE Network solution with Starlink satellite Internet services. The integration enables scalable management, visibility, and performance optimization for Starlink Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellite connections in conjunction with Cambium's Network Service Edge (NSE) security/SD-WAN platform and the cnMaestro™ cloud management system.

DarthPineapple5

Being the first mover does not provide an advantage in and of itself but SpaceX does have inherent advantages and I don't think you've been able to logically justify Amazon's ability to compete let alone surpass Starlink. Launch costs are continuous not a one time expense, these LEO satellites are only designed to last 5 years or so before falling back to Earth. They must be constantly replaced thats why Amazon contracted like 50 launches and they will need to contract another 50 after that too. SpaceX is both the launch provider and the satellite operator in the same way Amazon became its own shipping company. Its hard to argue with the financial logic. Like I said I think they will do well with enterprise and government clientele but I don't see them being price or performance competitive in the consumer market

Impressive-Bee-5183

# Did Greenland deliberately avoid Starlink? **TL;DR:** Yeah, kinda. The [October 2025 Eutelsat-OneWeb deal](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20251001454225/en/Eutelsat-and-Tusass-Expand-Strategic-Partnership-to-Bring-Resilient-LEO-Connectivity-to-Greenland) has legitimate technical reasons AND geopolitical undertones. Officials won't say "we're avoiding the US" directly, but read the room. ## What Happened On Oct 1, 2025, [Tusass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tusass) (Greenland's state telecom) expanded their partnership with [Eutelsat-OneWeb](https://www.satellitetoday.com/connectivity/2025/10/01/greenlands-top-telco-taps-eutelsat-for-leo-connectivity/). They've worked together [since Nov 2022](https://polarjournal.ch/en/2022/11/21/oneweb-secures-greenland-in-race-for-arctic-communications/). **Tech specs:** 600+ satellites in polar orbit, 150-195 Mbps, enterprise SLAs, purpose-built for Arctic. **Key:** This expands an existing relationship, not a vendor switch. ## Starlink Isn't Legal in Greenland [Starlink is explicitly illegal](https://www.aqutsisut.gl/en/tele/satellite-regulation) in Greenland. [Law No. 31 of 2017](https://polarjournal.ch/en/2024/03/06/elon-musks-starlink-is-disrupting-greenlands-expensive-internet-market/) gives Tusass an exclusive monopoly. Tusass [talked with Starlink since 2023](https://telecomtalk.info/tusass-engages-discussions-with-starlink-in-greenland/969968/), but talks failed because: * Starlink can terminate service anytime (dealbreaker) * Business model clash with monopoly * [Control concerns](https://ing.dk/artikel/expert-warns-against-potential-starlink-entry-greenland): *"Greenland's critical infrastructure must be controlled by Greenland itself"* Irony: [Faroe Islands](https://ing.dk/artikel/musks-satellites-are-dividing-danish-commonwealth-here-why-faroe-islands-are-welcoming-him) approved Starlink in May 2025. Greenland is the **only Nordic country** without it. ## Is OneWeb Actually Better? For Greenland's needs, yes. **1. Arctic Coverage:** [OneWeb's polar orbit](https://www.speedcast.com/blog-hub/2024/starlink-and-oneweb/) = 24/7 coverage above 50°N. Starlink's 53° inclination serves mid-latitudes; only ~200 of 6,000+ satellites serve Arctic. This is orbital mechanics, not marketing. **2. Enterprise Grade:** OneWeb offers guaranteed bandwidth, 99.9% uptime SLAs, private networks, 24/7 phone support. Starlink's "best effort" consumer service doesn't work for critical infrastructure. **3. Existing Infrastructure:** [Running since 2022](https://www.capacitymedia.com/article/2aw877jhn6797qyhr0phc/news/greenlands-tusass-offers-island-wide-oneweb-satellite-services). Why rip-and-replace? ## Trump's 2025 Greenland Push The timing is suspicious. **Timeline:** * **Jan 7:** Trump [won't rule out](https://www.gmfus.org/news/advancing-us-interests-greenland) "military/economic coercion" * **Jan 11:** All five Greenland parties reject annexation * **Mar 24-28:** VP Vance visits; PM calls it ["highly aggressive"](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/29/not-how-you-talk-to-allies-danish-fm-tells-the-us-over-greenland) * **Mar 28:** Vance: US doesn't care what EU "screams" * **Aug 27:** Denmark summons US diplomat over covert ops reports [**85% of Greenlanders oppose**](https://www.gmfus.org/news/advancing-us-interests-greenland) becoming part of the US. Nearly half of Danes now consider US a threat. Danish analyst asked: *"Will the Americans shut down Greenland's internet?"* - [referencing Starlink threats to Ukraine](https://ing.dk/artikel/expert-warns-against-potential-starlink-entry-greenland). ## The European Pattern Greenland isn't alone. [EU's IRIS² constellation](https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/space-eu-initiatives-satellite-based-connectivity-system-and-eu-approach-management-space-traffic_en): €10.6B program led by Eutelsat. **Official goal:** *"Reducing European dependency on non-European solutions."* [EU documents say it explicitly](https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/space-eu-initiatives-satellite-based-connectivity-system-and-eu-approach-management-space-traffic_en). **Others choosing Eutelsat:** Ukraine (EU discussions to replace Starlink), France (10-year military deal), Italy, UK programs. France invested €750M, UK €163M. French MEP called for [Starlink alternatives](https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/partner/article/enhancing-satellitebased-services-for-a-competitive-autonomous-and-resilient-europe) citing *"reducing dependence on non-European providers."* ## What's Really Going On? **Technical factors (legit):** * Better Arctic coverage * Enterprise SLAs essential * Existing partnership * Starlink not legal anyway **Political factors (obvious):** * Timing at peak US-Greenland tensions * EU pattern of choosing European providers * [Explicit EU policy](https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/space-eu-initiatives-satellite-based-connectivity-system-and-eu-approach-management-space-traffic_en) to reduce US dependency * Constant "sovereignty" mentions **My take:** Technical and political factors align perfectly. OneWeb was already the smart choice. Trump's annexation threats just made it a no-brainer. It's not "we hate America." It's "we're not stupid." ## Bottom Line They chose a technically superior European option while Trump threatens annexation, as part of broader EU strategy to reduce US tech dependency. **Your choices:** * **Option A:** Illegal US service from Musk (Trump's buddy) who can cut service anytime * **Option B:** Legal European service with better Arctic coverage Pretty simple math. --- **Sources:** [Eutelsat releases](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20251001454225/en/Eutelsat-and-Tusass-Expand-Strategic-Partnership-to-Bring-Resilient-LEO-Connectivity-to-Greenland), [Greenland gov regs](https://www.aqutsisut.gl/en/tele/satellite-regulation), [EU policy docs](https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/space-eu-initiatives-satellite-based-connectivity-system-and-eu-approach-management-space-traffic_en), [Polar Journal](https://polarjournal.ch/en/2022/11/21/oneweb-secures-greenland-in-race-for-arctic-communications/), [Satellite Today](https://www.satellitetoday.com/connectivity/2025/10/01/greenlands-top-telco-taps-eutelsat-for-leo-connectivity/), [Ingeniøren](https://ing.dk/artikel/expert-warns-against-potential-starlink-entry-greenland), [Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/29/not-how-you-talk-to-allies-danish-fm-tells-the-us-over-greenland), [GMF](https://www.gmfus.org/news/advancing-us-interests-greenland). **Edit:** No, "Greenland hates America" isn't the point. The point is "don't threaten to annex allies while expecting them to use your critical infrastructure."

SmokingLimone

What would make the space industry boom in the next few years though? Also, if we start putting millions of microsats in LEO, we'll soon start suffering from Kessler syndrome.

Shdwrptr

Mars samples are a lot more work to bring back. We can survey asteroids pretty effectively from LEO. All that needs to be done after surveying is to ferry the asteroid safely into orbit, or near enough to crack. The infrastructure is far less complicated than people think.

Fineous40

LEO is not space.

TrueBradnah19

Long-term, the opportunity is parabolic. We cannot fathom the size of the space industry and economic opportunities it presents. We just need to incentivize the commercial industry a bit further to continue to bring down the cost to launch a kg to LEO. Rocket lab is vertically integrated, end-to-end space company. That’s a company I want to be a part of

callsonreddit

Fuck me. I bought LEO instead of LEU

icatsouki

stock will reach LEO before the satellites at this rate

RandomNobodyEU

Would you really pay a million bucks to get to LEO?

gavbot_1213

I work in human spaceflight as a test engineer - technology still needs to catch up to the economically sustainable solutions required. I’ve had a couple friends fly on both Blue and VG, but the rides cost a fortune and they were crowdsourced or had insane capital / PR for it. When it’s as safe as can be guaranteed with enough people willing to sit atop a lit candle just to float in a hotel in LEO and enjoy a slew of motion sickness, then it’ll be more normalized.

ImFilou

LEO HAS A NEW GF AND SHES 27. Yeah i think there is a bubble my dudes, sell everything and short the top 💃

Canis9z

AMZN LEO, Project Kuiper coming soon. May add some excitement. Better than Starlink..

TechnicalBee1331

# The Strategic Imperative of Neutron The Neutron rocket represents a paradigm shift for Rocket Lab, moving it from the small-lift to the medium-lift launch market, a segment with substantially larger contract values and greater market potential. * **Payload Capacity:** Neutron is designed to lift up to 8,000 kg to LEO, and up to 1,500 kg to Geostationary Transfer Orbit (GTO). This enables the launch of larger constellations, space stations, and interplanetary missions. * **Cost Efficiency Target:** Rocket Lab aims for Neutron to be significantly more cost-effective per kilogram than Electron, utilizing a reusable first stage and a novel "Archimedes" engine. The target cost per launch is projected to be around $70 million, a substantial reduction compared to competitors in its payload class. * **Market Opportunity:** Neutron directly targets lucrative government contracts, including those from the Space Force's National Security Space Launch (NSSL) program, which are worth billions of dollars annually. It also opens doors to commercial constellation deployment and potentially space tourism. * **Development Status:** The development of Neutron is a critical catalyst. The first launch is targeted for late 2024 or early 2025, with significant progress reported on engine testing and stage integration at their facilities in Wallops Island, Virginia, and Stennis Space Center, Mississippi. The first landing attempt is planned for over water, followed by barge landings for increased recovery success. # Diversification into Space Systems: The "End-to-End" Strategy Beyond launch services, Rocket Lab has strategically expanded into the Space Systems business, encompassing satellite components, satellite buses, and mission operations. This vertical integration aims to capture more value within the space ecosystem and create a more resilient business model. * **Key Acquisitions:** RKLB has made several key acquisitions to build its space systems capabilities, including: * **Alto Astronautics (satellite buses):** Enhancing capabilities for medium-sized satellites. * **Sinclair Interplanetary (reaction wheels):** A leading supplier of attitude control components. * **PSC (Photon satellite component and software):** Providing standardized satellite platforms and mission design tools. * **QEY Innovation (flight software):** Bolstering software development. * **SolAero (solar panels):** A key power source component for satellites. * **Ball Aerospace's aerospace business (satellite platforms, sensors):** A significant expansion into advanced satellite components and platforms. * **Revenue Contribution:** Space Systems revenue has grown significantly, now constituting a substantial portion of RKLB's total revenue. In Q4 2023, Space Systems revenue was $71 million, an increase of 13% year-over-year. For the full year 2023, Space Systems revenue was $271 million, up 23% year-over-year. * **Synergies:** The integration of space systems provides RKLB with a unique advantage: offering customers a comprehensive solution from satellite design and manufacturing to launch and mission operations. This "one-stop-shop" approach can foster stronger customer loyalty and command premium pricing.