Reddit Posts
COVID investors are finding new ways to dump their STR’s onto other suckers
Crackdowns on STR’s: time to go long on hotel stocks?
STR stock caught my eye. There’s definitely short-squeeze potential here
What's the communities thoughts on Vacasa VCSA
Mentions
Have you considered the potential Tax plays you have available; are you working with a team to complete bonus depreciation, and/cost segregation oppty for the STR’s annually. Due to big beautiful bill bonus depreciation is back up to 100% year one. I have always been DIY for my portfolio but this was a major knowledge gap for me. Once I swallowed my pride and worked with a fee-based unbiased financial planner for a plan on how to maximize my RE I saw how to really make everything cohesive and work in my portfolio without selling off all RE. I still self manage my assets; I only wanted to pay for a plan and a review of our portfolio for second opinion. A good firm or family office will have a team that handles the leg work of this for you and helps assist with ppty mgt so it’s less stress and more financial savings / upside. In general the hidden factor in most financial planning conversations is taxes - today and in the future. Feel free to dm me if you need an intro or want more specifics on what we do for STR’s and RE Assets.
Paying back deprecation is fine, money now is worth much more than later. Second there is a 500k married exclusion on capital gains if you live in it for 2 out of 5 years. common for RE investors to rotate their primary resident as they approach the cap, and reset the cap by buying a new home. There is also STR loophole for high income earners, then the the recent BBB salt cap increase. Can possibly itemized 80k which is much more than standard deduction Then there are state tax benefits like prop 13 for ca where your property tax are capped.
If IN-VID-YA screws this up we’re diving STR8-2-HAIL
If IN-VID-YA screws this up we’re diving STR8-2-HAIL
Wonderful! I'd love to get into a STR that pays well. I'd use cash to make it financially viable, if you can afford it, which doesn't sound like an issue. Then, hopefully, churn 45k a quarter!
The property with the lower interest rate is a long-term rental condo. The 6.675% rate applies to a vacation property that I operate as a short-term rental (STR). I can make $30,000 in just a couple of months from this property. My goal is to reach a point where the property can sustain itself financially.
Most of the "speculators" around me are short term rentals, the rest are long term, they aren't doing bad either. The market seems to be still strong, despite the increase in inventory. Personally we rarely use hotels unless it's a very short trip like 1-3 days max and I'm not alone, mote bang for the buck in a STR.
What's wrong with posting on eBay sellers? I've had a pretty passive store for almost ten years and net close to $50k in profit. I also own two STR's and a multifamily rental. I sell pharmaceutical manufacturing equipment. Big pharma is speed running expansion to avoid their own tarriffs. I just opened/closed a $4M dollar deal in two months and I make 2% on that alone. It would be more, but it's considered a windfall.
You're right that this was the situation for a long time, but the 1.9% rate you mentioned is outdated. The ECB has hiked rates significantly, and the key overnight rates are now around 4.0%. This has completely changed the landscape. EU investors can now get a decent, low-risk yield in Euros without taking on currency risk. The local equivalents to SGOV would be money market ETFs tracking the Euro Short-Term Rate (€STR), like XEON or CSH2, or ultra-short-term government bond ETFs like CBUG.
it's NOT a (financial) investment but if you love it and use it regularly (ie, close by), and you have great memories there, then totally worth it (if you can afford it, which sounds like you can) re: your own dock. if you can afford it (sounds like you can), then go for it. so much nicer to have your own space where you park your own boat. extra winner if you can walk there from your house. you'll use it a lot more. rather than having to pack up the car, drive, park, unpack the car... and doing it all over again. but there are also maintenance costs to owning a dock to keep in mind. STR has up/down. no one will take as much care of your place as you do. the wear/tear is real. don't discount that. but yeah, nice to have some $ to contribute to the mortgage!
https://preview.redd.it/1r3gflyicwcf1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be84f9f3e514eedba8dd8e38da57ee514fef3eb2 Here are positions added today STR8 bull
🇮🇷 character stats: > VIT: 5 > STR: 5 > DEX: 99 > INT: -10
I get ya. My main business is service based. I have enough headaches and customers to deal with on that end, so STR while complimentary wouldn’t provide the eventual ejection seat I’m looking for.
True. STR is full of headaches. it’s more than a business. it’s like running a 24/7 uber business. a few years back, guests were courteous, and no one was a jerk. Starting from last year, 50% of guests are jerks and headaches, especially some experienced guests.
I don’t think I’d compare an STR to a stock. STR’s are closer to running a business than passive real estate or sp500 index. That being said I am trying to move a lot of my funds from smallerm, more time consuming real estate to stocks/bonds/refits or stabilized, higher quality real estate. My goal was money AND time freedom. STR’s don’t give me the time part. But its really up to your goals. Less headache = Less return.
I’m working at my computer less than 5 hours a week. I interact with people when I recreate with the other 163 hours. But I really don’t know much about being on that side of the STR world. Could be the be all end all for all I know.
2nd this totally! It’s a business and more than a 9 to 5 business if you are doing STR
being a STR landlord is a great place to kill time and communicate with folks. Believe it or not, human interactions can be slightly more enjoyable than just looking at the #s in front of computers. even though I have been doing well in stocks, I don’t like sitting there all day with no one to interact with.
Totally agreed on that. Doing STR is way more than just dealing with the burst pipes. I was once forced to refund $909 for some dust on a ceiling fan that doesn’t get used in a winter. dealing with str websites and customers is worse than dealing with burst pipes.
1. This is the market to sell not to buy real estate. 2. STR is dying. 3. Spreading out the investment will reduce the risk. Aka don't keep all your eggs in the same basket. 4. Liquidity is king, especially in this market. Really difficult to say without knowing your whole financial situation. For example, do you have other reliable income sources? What percentage of your investment is in real estate and others? How much do you depend on your investment income?
STR not a penny stock but been steadily rising today cause of some good news 🤷🏻♀️
Irritating that MSTR, sorry, STR, is hoovering up all the BTC demand.
Best Bruce Buffer voice, "IT'S TIMEEEE.... FOR THE POWER 2 HOURS....IN THE GREEN CORNER WE HAVESPY 2:00 to FINISH GREEN for 10 STR8 TRADING DAYS"
Shit goal, market makers generally make more money with more volatility. > NEW types of derivatives to transfer this risk (look up STRs) No idea what you are talking about here. Googling “financial derivative STR” doesn’t yield any relevant result. > private vestments into public markets via ETFs… Yeah, everything eventually makes its way into ETFs. It’s normal, and everyone mostly profits from it. Retail investors have more options to invest, brokers and ETF providers get more fees, … The only drawback of the ETFication of financial markets is the crowding that results from everyone tracking the same thing. Also, if you invest in private markets, making them more accessible in times of stress is a double-edged sword. Sure, more liquidity, but also more price discovery (which you don’t really want in times of stress, when the lack of price discovery is a massive advantage of private markets). It doesn’t sound like you really thought this theory through, sorry.
Ik hou zelf via DeGiro oa. DBXT aan, dit volgt €STR, de nachtelijke rente van Europese banken. Geen idee of dat precies hetzelfde is als een 'money market' fonds, maar ter overweging. Let wel op dat dit in box 3 volgens mij belast kan worden als belegging en niet als spaargeld, maar dat weet ik niet zeker want ik zit onder de vrijstelling.
Eonia has been replaced by €STR by the way, it's the same thing but the name changed
Can't find the article but apparently there is an expectation that 10-20 percent of FHA loans taken out over the past, I believe 4 years, have been fraudulent. I.e.: consumer takes out home loan says 'I'm going to live here for a year before I rent it out.' Then they are listing it as LTR/STR in 30-90 days. They are requesting people to turn in leads. 10% isn't a massive number but it's definitely large enough to create contagion via sale/short-sale/foreclosures/seizures. Plus, it's a felony so...people are going to try and exit as this ramps to be less visible.
The STR market crumbling is probably one of the best things that could happen for US housing.
They're to far gone to even try to understand market dynamics beyond line STR8 up line do STR8 down. Toss in the man of orange...
I’m not seeing one, given the negative sentiment towards them in many local communities and anti-STR legislation in many key markets. A bull case would require a change in that tide or a major new growth driver.
No doubt! But cities are getting addicted to the tax revenue, so the calculus is a bit more complex than people realize. Not only do these properties pay property tax, but often $5 - $10k in additional STR taxes each year.
Anything that involves shorting this shit company. Bought some TSLZ and then later that day my neighbor at a STR had to get their Tesla towed back haha up 25% since
This is why STR’s make sense. My first foray into Airbnb, I put 13k down on 250k purchase. Another 15k into the furnishings. Generated 45k in Y1… before I understood dynamic pricing. In the nearly 10 years I’ve had this property, I’ve generated well over 500k and added more to the portfolio. Now you get cash flow, equity, appreciation, and depreciation benefits, all while using someone else’s money. This is why rentals beat stocks. I’ve never had to clean piss out of my brokerage account, but my property value will also never go to zero.
Recently multiple coworkers of mine have been desperately advertising their ABNB condos in ski towns on our companies internal Teams channels. Makes me think that things aren't as rosy as they once were in STR land, at least in the US market.
MSTR puts? or is it STR puts? (Honestly though Don't do this)
Soooo if you drop M from MSTR it’ll be like STR which is a game stat meaning strength so he’s saying they’re strong. CALLS NOW 
Germans usually keep this kind of fund as "Tagesgeld", i.e., short-term savings accounts. They currently yield around 3% per annum. Various European options are available via this site: [https://www.raisin.com/en/our-offers/](https://www.raisin.com/en/our-offers/) Another option is a money market funds linked to the [Euro short-term rate (€STR)](https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/financial_markets_and_interest_rates/euro_short-term_rate/html/index.en.html), for example [DBX0AN](https://www.justetf.com/de/etf-profile.html?isin=LU0290358497). Not sure which of those are available to U.S. citizens (due to the regulatory requirements).
That is what I am thinking too. I think Uber will become like ABNB/STR companies except with cars. Both Uber and the autonomous companies make money. Human drivers seem to be the most at risk of losing jobs but that a separate topic. It seems from these topics about future of Uber. There is quite a bit of people who think Waymo will control the entire market and cut out Uber. To me I think all you need is 3-4 other companies besides Google having automous vehicles and that kinds shuts down Waymo monopoly increases the odds of Uber being the aggregator.
Yea it’s mainly SFH incl condos where there seem to be investors loading up on large amount of rentals (STR and Long term) with very inflated projections for cash flow
You're in the same place as I am. You are not rich. You are average based on the engineers i work with. Depending on inflation, you will likely need $2M - $5M net worth to retire and still enjoy life. IMO, real estate could be a good place to put some. You probably want a job so you can qualify for a loan. I'm looking for an STR i could also enjoy using. Starting a business is good, but buying one is less risky if you know the type of business. You only need about 20% down with an SBA loan. So with 300k, you could go up to $1M easily with some in reserve. That i would hope would have >$250K/yr in SDE. (Before the loan) I keep a yolo portfolio and then have a separate FANG and FANG like stock one. Keeping a little In what i think are safe dividend stocks (like UGI) as a second piggy bank for if there is a crash.
Yeah insurance is going to be a pretty big expense, I think. You need STR insurance which covers all kinds of liability, on top of property, etc… for 10 units I can’t imagine insurance being under $1k a month. For my unit (3b, 6 guest max) is >$3k/yr.
Or go rent not my problem, just isn’t sustainable it seems to see/expect 20-30% housing jumps YoY without a correction. This is especially true as many tourist towns are looking for ways to curb the influx of STR’s that is killing those towns local communities and usually thus the actual reason to go to those places.
I think this is actually bullish, especially for Airbnb. They're working with cities and municipalities better than any other STR company, plus once the regulations are set, it creates a higher barrier of entry for competitors. STRs aren't going away, they'll be regulated like everything else and the vast majority of cities will take their cut rather than ban entirely.
I think this is actually bullish, especially for Airbnb. They're working with cities and municipalities better than any other STR company, plus once the regulations are set, it creates a higher barrier of entry for competitors. STRs aren't going away, they'll be regulated like everything else and the vast majority of cities will take their cut rather than ban entirely.
for some of my own local stories, in Vancouver landlords have expectedly complained: > https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/i-just-hope-my-investment-doesnt-come-crashing-down-on-me-airbnb-owner-responds-to-proposed-crackdown > https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/west-point-grey-couple-loses-battle-to-continue-as-airbnb-operator-vancouver-8194147 some landlords says there’s a way around it: > https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/bc-housing-crisis-airbnb-regulations and enforcement yet is not always been strict or consistent yet either as local non-landlord whistleblowers have found: > https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/surge-in-illegal-airbnbs-frustrates-richmond-resident-8309047 $ABNB itself has tried to rally local STR landlords to lobby local government > https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/10/24/airbnb-bc-rental-rules-hosts-emails/ the city itself has yet to speak officially on the impact as the major changes only fully came into effect 10 weeks ago but anecdotally, some redditors say listings are notably down > https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1chr4di/airbnbs_significantly_reduced_after_the_new_law/ if the trend follows, at some point it stands to reason it’ll become a significant material impact for $ABNB impact on $EXPE via decreases VBRO revenue seems much less clear as it depends how many booking users instead just use $EXPE for hotels, or how many no longer book/travel at all with STR options now limited. my sense is most will simply switch to (often better anyhow) hotels so any impact on $EXPE may be immaterial.
It’s mostly the landlord issues in general that I’d like to get away from. I’m actually getting ready to rent out my old place as LTR now, but with a management company. So I’ll have that for a while, which feels like enough there. I liked the STR, but am now living in it. If I were to move or travel long term, I’d likely have it managed as a MTR. It was fun and I love people, but at its best it’s very customer service oriented. And I was obsessive about details - there are always ways to improve. Honestly, I guess it’s just that if I could retire, I’d rather trade and be unencumbered for extra cash? Just have investments that I manage, and let others deal with the day to day of real estate. I’d do it again if it meant more freedom in between, but it’s still work, so maybe it’s just a conflict with the idea of retirement. Not that I can imagine that, exactly! I’m also in this mindset where I don’t have a particular place I really want to be longterm? So that’s part of it as well. Where are you thinking of?
Same on all fronts, except I ran a STR for a while and prefer not to do so again. It all feels within reach in this bull market, though! Wish you the best and may our kids inherit assets!
Ran a STR for 2 years in the Seattle area and converted it to a long term rental to not have to deal with the headaches. Just off the top of my head: 1. To do it legally (and this is a requirement in order to list on sites like VRBO and AirBNB), in Seattle you need a business license and have to report local business taxes. You also need a Short-Term Rental license and have to open up your home to city inspectors (granted there's a less than 1:10 chance of this happening every year). 2. You can't reliably screen guests and really can't prevent damage from happening. One time a Seahawks player rented out the place and held a massive party with 25+ people that we had to threaten with calling the cops to get them to leave. The initial renter was their assistant who had a stellar AirBNB rating and said there'd only be 2 people staying over for a night. Broken furniture, beer spilled on walls, smoking all over the place, we had 3rd party insurance specifically for guest damage but it is absolutely not fun having to deal with this unpredictable shit. 3. One time a person decided to take a shower without the shower curtain (???), somehow spilling enough water on the floor for it to find a way to the floor below and caused significant ceiling/drywall damage. 4. Guests just break shit, steal shit, and generally dgaf about being nice to your property. Leaving windows open in the winter with the heat on full blast, fire alarm constantly being triggered despite 2 massive signs saying they were sensitive and to run the stovetop fan, and one time a guest left the FIREPLACE ON after leaving and it stayed on for almost a whole day until the cleaners got it. 5. Constant complaints from our neighbors about excessive noise, and that was with us openly stating we used noise/party monitoring hardware and with an 11pm noise moratorium. 6. Income was very unreliable. Could go entire weeks without a listing, and then the Eras Tour would come to town and the place would be booked for a week with 10x the usual price. Keep in mind all of these headaches was with us using property manager to handle booking/guest problems/turnover/etc, so we didn't even to deal with stuff like emergency lockouts, cleaning, guest cancellations, etc. In the end just to make peace with neighbors, I took a ~15% loss on monthly revenue/rent and converted to a long-term tenant whom has been great - they care
Make mortgages transferable like they were in the 70s. My dad bought his first house for $20k by assuming the owners $10k mortgage @ 1.5% and financing the other $10k @ the current rate. This would allow people to “afford” housing again. Also make interest and taxes 100% deductible on your residence only and second/third houses at 50% to encourage owner occupied and not STR corps
Yes, longer term. This area will be the last standing, though. Developers have been going nuts over it. And I will sell in the next 5 years on the outside (it is a condo, after all.) I still have an interest in a STR on Miami Beach that I am more desperately trying to get out of…I think investment there is absurd insane. Certainly for normal income/asset people - even just considering insurance. I moved during the pandemic, so am honestly not as up on it all as I should be. Oh, and I was trying to be sparky, a bit!
> They will be offered in forums LOL. So few will go to that length. This effectively kills STR.
I'm legit happy that hotel chains are getting in on the STR home market so I can deal with an actual professional company instead of scummy Airbnbros
With a property manager it's less hands-on but a good one for STR costs more than the 8-12% of gross rule of thumb for LTR - depending on the market I've seen up to 30%. After that and your business organization costs, listing site costs, and regular property costs (make sure you've checked with your property insurance, and you'll want to get liability), and the inevitable repairs that come from renting it out - if the math still maths for you, that's awesome. As a landlord myself (LTR though) by profession, if this is what you want to do with this property, my advice would be to cashflow these other projects from your rental earnings as you go rather than fronting them out of your other money.
Oh boy, looking at this short position, it's like watching a slow-motion car crash. Let's break it down: 1. **Total Value**: €124,288.40 2. **Daily Loss**: €-3,361.84 (-2.63%) Top offenders: - **SG BNP Paribas Turbo BEST Open-End Put BAR 68.5356 STR 68.5356 R 0.1 LV 79.13**: You might be feeling a bit turbocharged with this one, but it's down €281.89 (a jaw-dropping +304.34%). This is the financial equivalent of putting a turbo on a bicycle—impressive but ultimately unnecessary. - **SG NVIDIA Factor (Multi) Short LEV -5**: Ouch, this one's down €1,905.00. It's like betting against a tech juggernaut and then being surprised when it doesn't slow down. At this rate, NVIDIA is more likely to offer you a job than for your short position to pay off. - **SG NVIDIA Turbo BEST Open-End Put BAR 1095.2 STR 1095.2 R 0.005 LV 6.11**: This one’s down €30.50. It's not the biggest loss, but it's the equivalent of buying a lottery ticket and finding out the jackpot is a half-eaten sandwich. Considering these painful realities, the phrase "dining behind Wendy’s dumpster" might soon shift from a sarcastic jab to an unfortunate necessity. If this short position keeps tanking, you might want to start scouting out the best Wendy’s dumpsters for scraps. On the bright side, you'll probably have plenty of company from other unfortunate investors. Keep your head up, and maybe pack some extra napkins!
On days like today, when 🌽 is hot... M**STR **usually ends the day 3x-5x the % increase that 🌽 does. It's currently only 1.8X. May be a good opportunity for some action boys 📈
Yeah, but most places won’t ban STR, so the vast majority of the country will increase in price, while the buying power of ban cities will decrease.
Mark this, 🌽 to reclaim $64K tonight. Act accordingly M**STR **C**FR MARA **degens. 
Prediction, 🌽 end up 0.01-0.9% today, M**STR **(after early strong open) ends up 2-3%, and tomorrow S**AYLOR **goes big and announce $300M-$800M bulk purchase of 🌽 sending it up above $68K, and MSTR above $1500. 
Nah Adam I’m upset cause I paid you $5600 for a lifetime membership and you basically stole my money after you banned me since Xmas. You muted me multiple times for the lamest reasons. You got upset cause I complained about 1) traderpaloozas not being free for lifetime members after you and Mike promised me and every lifetime member that it would always be free. That was the main reason I actually decided to sign up for lifetime in July 2022. After experiencing only 1 trader palooza, you changed the policy. 2) you muted me for complaining about you kicking out moderator in STR for having a drunken profanity ridden rant. I wasn’t there and had no idea what you were talking about. If you just spilled the beans instead of talking in circles for 30 minutes and going out of your not to mention Chris Toner I wouldn’t have complained about anything. At the time, I liked listening to what Wolf had to say and I thought you were talking about him. When you said it was Chris Toner, I said that I didn’t care anymore and you should kick him out of STR since I never pay attention to what he says. You got offended and muted me for this. 3) you got offended when I disagreed with your bitcoin trading strategy. In hindsight you got lucky and made a good trade since bitcoin was manipulated up by the white collar crooks. But you also didn’t want to buy btc at 15k just a few months earlier and when you said you were buying btc at 37k, I thought that was a very risky trade and many other TTG members felt the same way at that time. 4) during Xmas, you had your unmuting session and I asked to be unmuted in a very respectful manner. You were a jerk about it and said some people are unredeemable and will never be unmuted. I private messaged you and asked you what I did that was so bad and that you were unprofessional for holding grudges over little things. When I mentioned how you had problems with so many other members and Jessica, the former trading moderator, you got pissed and banned me for good. 5) I tried to reach out more than a dozen times to get unbanned or receive a refund. You guys complete ghosted me without a single response. So yeah I’m pretty sure any reasonable human being would be upset if they got screwed out of $5600 and was being completely ignored. If you are serious about making things right with me, provide me a refund for $5600 and I will never say a negative about you or TTG and I will stay out of your world. If not, I will write as many negative reviews on BBB, trustpilot, etc and I will take take legal action to get my money back. Ball is in your court Adam.
STR will have to get legislated or the market will collapse and make STR an awful investment. One of them has to happen.
My city was a hot ABNB market, but they just banned STR's going foward at the end of last year as they deemed them to be one of the root causes of housing unaffordability. I would not be surprised to see other more liberal cities start banning them as well.
Lots of options for forcing. I can MTR or STR one or more units or rehab.
It certainly seems you’ve covered most of your bases! Appreciation may not be as good as it was past 10 years. Rent seems to have plateaued more but if you are seeing demand and even STR options being very possible to increase rent it’s very possible to increase appreciation. 5%COC is not much but your appreciation would make it a great investment.
See my comments on unemployment. 2022 also experienced a labor market quite unlike anything we’ve ever seen. The labor market has flipped since then. There are layoffs happening left and right (whether they are actual layoffs or workforce reduction through attrition). Would 2022 FOMO happen again when rates decline? Yea, if the labor market could support it. But it can’t, now, and it won’t when rates come down if we project what’s most likely to happened looking at historical unemployment changes during the Fed’s previous rate reduction cycles after pivoting. As to your comment on home sellers being buyers, yes, you’re correct, however, there have been a TON of “investors” (and I use this term lightly) that bought during the housing boom to jump into the STR space. A lot of those STR’s that were bought over the last 2-3 years are beginning to hit the market because they aren’t performing as expected and are becoming more of a liability. In my market, I’m seeing quite a few “Airbnb’s” hitting the market because it became over saturated over the past couple years and people aren’t making any money like they were. Other “investors” that purchased rentals and are looking to exit and move on to more passive investing because they realize being a landlord is not as passive as they thought it would be and most likely won’t turn into buyers. Just because someone is selling a house doesn’t mean they are going to become buyers. And I’d be willing to bet quite a large chunk of them won’t become buyers when they list their house(s). Especially factoring in that rents in most towns/cities are less than what a mortgage would cost. So, selling a rental(s) and then “reinvesting” into real estate would be a quite the risky move. As I stated, there’s so many ways this could play out, but there’s more downside than upside looking forward. It’s definitely going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
I love rural airbnbs that let you go out into nature and have it not be a retreat. That being said thats not a big enough market for the stock IMO and it seems like almost every city has put restrictions on STR
What am I making up exactly? Please be specific. I own/run a bunch of STR listings across states as well so I also speak from experience. RE is very local, so maybe your markets are different. As for that Redfin link, all it takes is to open up a bunch of random listings in NYC to prove my point. I’ve been house shopping for a new primary residence for a while. Almost every listing I look at has multiple price cuts. Some pretty steep. Here’s a good example I looked at recently https://streeteasy.com/building/the-nina-condominium/1a Look at that price history. It’s being offered for about the same price it was sold at in 2009, at the peak of the last crash. I can offer many more examples like that so this is not an exception by any means. Anyway, maybe I’m right, maybe you are. My crystal ball is at the cleaners. We’ll see where things are in a year
Acrobatics definitely lacking, STR check too.
Wish I had a crystal ball for the craziness of investing right now, but I just have to go off historicals without a better path. I’m fine accepting lower diversity with my portfolio for long term hold on asset classes, so I like a total stock market ETF index with a small cap value weight. Though recent history as well as the interest in AI may be a good argument to stick with all total stock market towards the heavy tech cap-weighting. I also like a low bond percent (about 10-20%) to smooth the ride with a moderate retirement range. Though bonds are also having their confidence shaken recently, so it seems no place is safe in the short term. I was never a big fan for gold, crypto or other alternative assets. I have been looking more at real estate, but still determining the level of active investing I am looking for. Syndications and private equity don’t seem to have good prospects over the next few years. Single family or STR are more active than I prefer. REITs are down heftily lately (~30%), so may be a good buy if focused on residential but I see more room to go down with funds specially focused on corporate real estate. I’m keeping current funds for more diversification sitting in rolling t-bill/HYSA assets before deploying them with some hope that the market gets a little more focused one way or the other in the coming year.
You hit the nail on the head… the reason why it has not gone crazy crazy is because they are suing the individual owners… not Airbnb technically. Just look at what the city of Lafayette just passed to start in the new year. Basically kills STR’s and Airbnb and a lot of jurisdictions are doing that now. I have seen a lot of homes that were used for that purpose flood the market.
The invisible hand of the free market is stroking me off while I laugh at the greedy STR morons
This hit the kids over at /r/LateStageCapitalism yet? Now I gotta see the listing for this STR.
You should quit trading and learn how to do sub to real estate deals. You can find sub 3% 30 year mortgages to takeover with reasonable entry costs and either STR or LTR your property to build wealth/cashflow. This is in your budget and the current economy is creating a lot of deals for those that understand “creative financing” such as seller financing or sub to in a soft market. See Pace Morby on YouTube for a start.
33 married. 60k HYSA 70k my brokerage 90k wife’s brokerage 35k emergency fund 10k ibonds Primary mortgage owe 410k @2.9% and house is valued at 900k STR property owe 200k @ 3.25% and cabin is worth 350k. We both have 401ks with 200k that we max out annually. We’re double income, no kids, with good jobs (engineer and lawyer). Def spend a lot but don’t sacrifice on saving. Got money from our first house sale by doing renovations ourselves to pay off her law school debt and put a down payment on our current home. Made some good trades during covid and used those proceeds to buy a cabin we Airbnb. The only help from our parents was they paid for 50% of my tuition and my wife got her undergrad paid for.
I don't know them very well. STR seems to act more like a REIT stock than an energy stock and it seems like a stock to hold vs trade actively. The biggest issue they have is having a 5.7% dividend when the risk free short term treasuries are above 5%. My guess is they go lower.... Sorry
Care to make any comments on $STR? I took a position with Brigham Minerals prior to the acquisition and they’ve lost nearly 25% since. They also don’t hardly budge even though oil prices certainly have. Just curious if you know them or have any thoughts?
I live in a Coastal tourist area and work PT for a condo HOA (maintenance advisor). About 80% of our units are STR. Occupancy rates this year are down 15-30% YOY. About 50% of the units turned over during ZIRP but the avg sales price doubled during that same time frame. Add to that, the units are about 20years old and are hitting critical mass with common area maintenance (exacerbated by coastal climate and humidity). So, down 20% avg occupancy and about to get hit with: A. Higher monthly assessments (which have been held too low to attract sales) or B: A one time special assessment to the tune of $15k/unit to catch up on all the deferred maintenance. I've been hearing rumblings from a few newer owners that used HELOCS for DP that things aren't penciling out (duh) and they might have to sell if either A or B happens. Problem is, the can has been kicked on the maintenance and we are at the end of the road. Needless to say, at the last board meeting I was the least favorite person in the room as I presented my assessment of condition and the coinciding cost estimates to make only the most necessary of repairs. After I presented, one of the owners actually asked when we were going to purchase new equipment for the fitness center. I was dumbfounded. It will be fun to watch everyone head for the exits at the same time when we HAVE to choose A or B.
Favoring STR over housing opportunities for your fellow human? Not based on
Why would you want to take up a part-time job when your income is 350k? At that level of income your only next realistic way to drastically increase it and change your quality/way of life is to invest and build your own business but that is a whole new level of commitment. With 350k yearly income it is also a high opportunity cost should your business not do as well as originally planned. Living off dividends is quite hard unless you have multiple millions in dividend-paying stocks. Personally I was fortunate to go straight into getting ownership of a restaurant business and got started in the STR industry after founding a startup in college and selling my portion off. With my investment homes I'm able to pull in right around $200k net profit with very minimal work per week. The restaurant business further brings me to nearly 7 figures total net profit between my 2 businesses, but I do have to work as a manager from time to time or even inside the kitchen and is quite time and labor intensive. With businesses you have so much freedom to scale up but your responsibility also drastically increases in proportion to your level of importance. If things don't go right it's much harder to turn around than with a job.
I am 5-8 years from retirement, and 5.3% is ok for me. My retirement accounts have been pretty flat for a while, although I still contribute a lot to them. I spend about 1/3 of my income the rest goes to retirement and my brokerage. Because of my position I’m limited to only being able to contribute 13% of my income to retirement (my wife does around 35% to hers), but I put all my other money into my brokerage account. I use that account to buy real estate, that’s where I have made some money while my stock accounts have not done well. I have that in money market right now because I strongly believe that the higher interest rates will impact RE pricing, particularly in condos for example and I think it will present an opportunity for a cash buyer. Typically STR condos don’t perform well but I feel like their time is coming as an investment. I’m going to be opportunistic looking for something that needs cash, land, homes, or condos.. I think recognizing a good deal and taking it is the thing that has helped me, I make deals and turn them into a profit - opportunistic. Also, I’m very simple. I live well below my means and the only debt I have is a small balance on my mortgage that I don’t pay off because the interest is low. I don’t want for much but I don’t need much. I think my greatest asset is that I don’t have financial worries or stress, I sleep at night.
Prediction: today, Friday, and over the weekend there will be closed door meetings. Expect a big announcement regarding rate hikes + STR legislature that is going to HURT the landlord class. People don’t exit positions when it’s obvious, but puts if you have the cash
Right. NY cracked down on it for this exact reason. The shortage of homes due to investors making them STR. Just an observation.
Market is flooded with AIRBNB’s all these long term rentals converted to STR and taking away from housing for the people. Due to better ROI on investment
What’s your favorite STR podcast that you’d recommend?
OP can do short term rentals instead. It’s great because guests have an exit date predetermined. the house gets cleaned regularly which the guests pay for. And you can actually use the house yourself in-between bookings. But there’s a lot of ifs that go into this plan as well. It’s hard to break even especially in the first few years. Likely renovations will necessary. Maintenance, property taxes, insurance, and utilities can be big unknowns. Renting is seasonal as well. You need to make sure your new STR is in a desirable location. DM me if you have more questions.
I have a STR property. I bought it. I furnished it. I hired a company to manage it. I do nothing else. The most interaction I’ve had the last year is them getting approval to replace the pool pump. They don’t seek approval for smaller items. Of course, I get less money because I pay them 18%. But I still make profit 11 out of 12 months on top of equity. Would it be nice to make that 18%? Yeah. But then I’d have to make property management my new career. It is a lot of work, scheduling cleaners (need multiple, because one may not be available when you need them), maintenance, checking for missing/broken items, changing prices on airbnb and vrbo depending on time of year. Etc etc. Right now I literally just make passive income.
So sorry but could you give me your source for this. Really hoping for anti STR laws in Texas so I would love to read more about this.
Could be other things that help, though probably not realistically going to happen due to the requirement of the government's involvement. Limit hoarding homes to rent out as a business opportunity by increased property taxes past X amount of owned homes. Decrease international single family home purchases. Eliminate Air BnB and all STR as much as possible. At least for single family homes. (Ratted on a former boss because he stiffed me my last paycheck by telling the city he was renting out his 5th wheel trailer on his front lawn and acting as if I was a concerned neighbor in an area it wasn't allowed. He got fines that eliminated all profit he had ever made from it) House flippers fucking suck too. They are dominating my area and you can recognize each and everyone because every house has the same multi-color gray fake wood flooring. They provide no value to society. Tax the fuck out of them.
There are 80 Million homes in the USA. If you look at STR's ( Including Airbnb's, VRBO, and their ilk), they come out to roughly 1 Million homes (including Single family, Townhomes, The Shithole yurts, ADU's and whatever else) On average 4 million homes change ownership every year. This last year, that number was 1 Million. The problem is Supply is decelerating almost as fast as demand, in some cases slower. No, AirBnb's are not causing the crash. They're like your Mom's boyfriends ex wife. She might be hot, but she's old news. I could make an argument that your chart follows the M2 money supply, the government debt, WSB membership and consequently the number of handy's outside Wendys.
Ok so OP isn’t totally wrong here, but “correlation doesn’t equal causation” is very important in this scenario. AirBnBs/short term rental activity isn’t the only (and is far from the biggest) contributor to housing prices. For example, the average STR in Denver (my market) went from generating $3,300 per month in 2022 to $2,000 in 2023. Less demand for this space has crushed cash flows for a majority of the STR market, and yet home prices remain relatively high. In simple terms, supply and demand drive housing prices. Sure, AirBnB/STR allows an investor to pay more for certain homes but is heavily restricted depending on your municipality. Personally, I’ve found the far larger contributor to housing prices are A. Lack of affordable supply and B. Wall Street/Big Money buying long term rentals en masse A. The process of entitling a piece of land to build houses, apartments, etc takes longer and longer, construction costs keep climbing, and now debt is more expensive. In short, it takes more time and money to build the same house compared to 5+ years ago B. 1 out of 7 homes in 2022 were purchased by large investment groups specifically to rent on a long term basis (STR is typically not what Wall Street does, they want longer more predictable cash flows without having to invest in furnishings and management like an AirBnB requires. TLDR: Mom and pop AirBnB operators aren’t able to drive up prices for an entire housing market. The real factors are A. Costs related to time, debt, materials, and labor and B. Institutional investors on Wall Street buying Long Term Rentals. Source: Local home builder/investor/broker in Denver, masters in real estate
Less than 1% of housing units are STR. Airbnb is not moving the needle the way people like to believe. https://www.doorloop.com/blog/short-term-rentals-real-estate-statistics#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20average%20number,in%20the%20U.S.%20reached%201%2C278%2C254.
Didn't New York already help out by not allowing STR at all unless it is your primary residence? Also Oklahoma, Colorado and a few other cities implementing more restrictions or licenses required which is something atleast. Airbnb was originally meant for a homeowner to rent out a spare bedroom that they aren't using in their house. If more cities would force STR to also be the owners primary residence that would greatly crack down on the issue while also allowing those who need the extra money(single, retired...individuals) from it to continue.
FALSE. 2006-2008 recession about 2% of houses foreclosed. That drove the market down significantly. How many STR's are there?? It's about 2% and that is just the ones they accounted for....
All the city has to do is reclassify short term rentals as running a lodging business which instantly makes it illegal to do in single family zoning areas. That also means STR owners are subjected to the exact same regulations that hotels are and have to pay the same taxes. Makes it a real pita and far less profitable even for STR houses which are located in areas where the zoning itself doesn't completely ban it.
I only do O&G public company exposure through royalty companies. TPL is by far the best, followed by PrairieSky. But also like STR (but they are in the middle of a big roll up strategy right now so I don’t expect meaningful shareholder returns soon) and KRP.
If you are seriously considering an investment property look at the DSCR loan. I wanted to do a short term rental property, however they've really been cracking down in the areas I want to purchase and every township has their own policies as it relates to STR, so it can be a massive headache. If you know you can find renters, as long as the rent is enough to cover the mortgage payment -- DSCR is the way to go they don't require proof of income, I don't even think there is a credit check. What they do is they check out rents in similar properties to decide whether or not the rent will be enough to cover the mortgage payments.
An STR by definition is transient use, AirBNB does not really do STR as we know them, 6 months or less 30 days or more. They are widely used as a hotel. I don't want a hotel next door to me anymore than I want a smelting shop.
There are very few units that actually turn over every month in some neighborhoods (especially Manhattan and Western Brooklyn). You'll be surprised how much 10,000 units will move the needle. That being said, I assume most STR landlords will first try to keep subletting outside of Airbnb and then eventually give in around the Dec/Jan timeframe. It will be a good winter to find deals for renters is my guess.