EMP

Fiach_Dubh

Bitcoin is resilient to local, country specific, regional specific or even continental wide outages of power and internet for long durations. Banks and other services are not. A global outage may be a challenge though for Bitcoin, but not an insurmountable one. I and others have the Bitcoin block data backed up offline on multiple enterprise grade 100GB Bluray DVD's, which are 100% resistant to EMP's and have a 100 year + shelf life. Some even keep nodes secured inside nuclear fall out shelters and lead lined safes that are hardened against such phenomena. Only one of these cold zero nodes/data blobs needs to survive for Bitcoin to re-emerge as a phoenix from the ashes. From these absolute cold zero backups, Bitcoin can survive such cataclysms. If you'd like to know more about this Lazarus Protocol keep an eye on this thread (I'm just beginning to outline a rough process protocol specification). https://discord.com/channels/782749290219962370/1375853902552895588

ErectionOfSpock

If you kill electricity, you kill the internet. You can kill electricity with an EMP from a tiny nuke, or someone launching a cyber attack aimed at power grids (in theory causing chain reactions to overload key equipment). But even more likely (and inevitable), a Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun hitting the planet, especially during "seasons" when the magnetic field of the planet drops significantly (meaning 90% loss of protection from solar weather). This would likely fry most electrical systems on the planet, or cause enough damage to the infrastructure itself that the grid would become useless. The sun won't explode, it doesn't need to, it just needs to sneeze in our direction. But at that point, surviving the next 2 months would make concerns about money totally irrelevant

Mysterious_Mouse_388

if an emp hits you then you restart the computer. this is bad for flying things, but things with 100's of GB of data backed up in every nook and cranny on earth (and even a few times in space) there is no need to fear EMP's

Datsyuk420

If an EMP takes out the entire world, you're going to want guns, bullets, and food. Buy Bitcoin.

Prestigious_Piano247

What if an EMP takes out all the grid. No access to crypto. I would say diversify. Cash gold crypto

suuperfli

EMP is localized and temporary. wouldn't do shit to btc, since there are hundreds of thousands of nodes dispersed globally

bronsondiamond

Bro you rely too much on tech. Gold will be reliable when the grid fails. Tech can easily be EMP'd. Gold can't.

Interesting_Loss_907

In a truly apocalyptic scenario (global nuclear war, EMP /solar flare etc) where the entire internet disappeared worldwide, gold would soon be worthless, & so would cash. Your life would soon become a brutal struggle for survival. Your struggle might involve barter, but money as we know it would cease to exist. If I were in a bunker with limited food & my family, I’m certainly not going to trade away any of our food, guns or supplies for some small, shiny pieces of metal like gold or platinum, nor for cash.

Autobotnate

EMP.

kirkwooder

Good question, probably not considering what it would take for that to happen. I worry about Bitcoin value after widespread internet outage from a solar event or manmade EMP.

Sin-City-Sinner

Not necessarily and not if the cause of the EMP isn’t a nuke. What if China hacks into our power grids and shuts it all down, they are capable of it. And yea I know there will be ways to get power still but an EMP fried electronics, meaning your device holding your coins might not be physically fried but the info is wiped or so mangled from the magnetic pulse that it corrupts every single file and Iz not able to be fixed What then?

Sin-City-Sinner

Here’s a great question I’m sure someone here can answer, I thought about making it a post but let’s see if I can get an answer easy here. Nuclear bomb goes off, causes an EMP and fries our electronics (i’m pretty sure there are other ways to cause electric magnetic pulses, not 100% sure but pretty sure) or if there was a major source of EMP, what happens to our btc?

cooltone

It seems like people forget how inter-connected human activity is and bitcoin is woven into that. Each of the risks (AI, solar flares, EMP bombs) is a blunt instrument that inflicts equivalent, if not more, damage on most other electronic systems. Are stock market trades, bond ownership, property ownership, bank accounts, blah, blah somehow immune; if course not. There is only one bitcoin-specific technology risk, a catastrophic bug that hasn't been spotted yet. I would argue that all systems have there own probability of this. If all security is lost what is the likely target 900T$ in existing wealth or 2T$ in bitcoin? What would we care about losing 900T$ or 2T$. Eitherway it will be armageddon.

ThepalehorseRiderr

Outside of an EMP or total power outage, maybe. I remember when it "always" didn't exist and that could come to pass again. Technology is adopted and loses favor all the time. Money and cryptography will always exist, sure. I think that's a pretty extreme position to think that that is an extreme position and I would imagine that you feel so invested because you literally are.

tayfun333

And I would love to pay with my artwork or my house plants I have many things I can offer to pay, but we don't have a Bartering Ring System internationally, yes you can Bumarter for things on your local food market for example but if the banking market crashes again than you might have to Barter... Always be prepared my friend stockpiling long Shell fly food that is cheap and doesn't take away much space is always a good idea even FEMA recommends that you have drinking water and food for a week at home the same counts for european countries you should also if you can protect your electronics from emp it can be a simple as a Woody Box rapped with aluminium for you expensive as EMP save backs for laptops no matter what you do you should always prepare I have learn this from my grand mother and Skilift through world war 2 ...

stan_papusa

I have a DVD backup of the entire blockchain as of yesterday. DVDs will not get destroyed by EMP

Fiach_Dubh

> I and others have the Bitcoin block data backed up on multiple enterprise grade 100GB Bluray DVD's, which are 100% resistant to EMP's and have a 100 year + shelf life. Some even keep nodes secured inside nuclear fall out shelters and lead lined safes that are hardened against such phenomena. Only one of these cold zero nodes/data blobs needs to survive for Bitcoin to re-emerge as a phoenix from the ashes. > > From these absolute cold zero backups, Bitcoin can survive such cataclysms. If you'd like to know more about this Lazarus Protocol keep an eye on this thread (I'm just beginning to outline a rough process protocol specification). https://discord.com/channels/782749290219962370/1375853902552895588

angelwolf71885

So long as there is a sat in circulation it will have a value…but it’s rather improbable that ALL Bitcoin becomes lost thus bringing us to $0.00 in value baring some cataclysm that wipes out all computers like an astroid or a global EMP or nuclear war…then you got much bigger problems then all BTC being lost

steelersaccountant

This is why I asked: a Faraday box or bag can protect a cold wallet (hardware wallet) from electromagnetic interference (EMI) and radio waves, offering an added layer of protection.  How it works: A Faraday cage (or box/bag) is a conductive enclosure that blocks electromagnetic fields from entering or leaving. It does this by absorbing and reflecting electromagnetic waves. This creates a shielded environment for the devices inside.  Why this protects a cold wallet: Shielding against radio waves: A Faraday bag or box can protect against radio wave frequencies, potentially preventing side-channel attacks that attempt to exploit radio wave leaks or the device's wireless connectivity features (like Bluetooth or NFC). Protection from electromagnetic pulses (EMP): While not providing complete protection from large EMP blasts, a Faraday box can increase the survival rate of the device by shielding it from this intense electromagnetic energy. Protection against various other signals: Faraday bags can block a wide range of electromagnetic radiation, including cellular, GPS, Bluetooth, WiFi, RFID, and NFC radio waves.  Factors to consider: Wireless connectivity: If your cold wallet has Bluetooth, NFC, or other wireless technology, a Faraday bag offers protection against potential attacks targeting these features. Risk of EMP exposure: If you work or travel in areas with a higher risk of EMP exposure (e.g., airports, military facilities, war zones), a Faraday bag provides an added layer of security. Threat tolerance: While Faraday bags can provide additional security, they are not the only, or even the most important, security measure for your cold wallet.  In summary: A Faraday box or bag can effectively shield your cold wallet from radio waves and electromagnetic pulses, offering an extra layer of protection, particularly if your device has wireless features or if you are concerned about EMP exposure. 

Zombie4141

An EMP that wipes out all computer data. Bitcoin would be dead, but life would move along like nothing ever happened. Yeah right. We all be dead.

Fiach_Dubh

theres been recent tv shows on this topic thats probably sparking the scenario question. global EMP's and such the Portugal power outage too

Fiach_Dubh

I and others have the Bitcoin block data backed up on 100GB Bluray DVD's which are 100% resistant to EMP's. Some even keep nodes secured inside nuclear fall out shelters that are hardened against such phenomena.

BaldDragonSlayer

If you don't think the exponential tech growthom AGI and especially ASI will solve this issue at some point, with EMP resistant circuits or at least EMP safe buildings for nodes and miners operate from, then you are not keeping up. Focusing on black swan events that's extremely unlikely in the short term is a waste of time in comparison to responding to things actually happening right now.

Lite_Touch

Correct, the data on each and every node would have to be wiped. An EMP (or many) couldn't do that over the whole planet.

Life-Entry-7285

EMP

thupkt

Giant EMP renders all electronics useless How much can you sell your BTC for now?

bio_alchemist_engnr

There will be a lot more to worry about the power grid goes down with no electricity. I would say the majority of people are oblivious to how reliant the economy is to electricity, every day lives. The power-grid will set the country way back. Immediately power outages lose electricity effecting various aspects of our daily life from the traffic stop lights, public transports, businesses, hospitals, communication networks. Water supply, many rely on electric pumps without the electricity water distribution plants functioning operations will work less efficiently. So lack of clean water increasing the % of water born diseases. Food supply woulf start failing due to refrigeration with transportation issues we have food shortages. Cell towers do have backup generators but will run out of fuel if not replenished. The EMP commission mandated by Congress reported concerns of nuclear and natural EMP that can disrupt the nation's infrastructure leading to a power grid loss. For a nation wide outage for 3-9months would be catastrophic causing societal collapse of the United States 90%-300million would die. What do you think would happen to the USD or all your life savings? Doesn’t matter because you will probably die with the other 90%. If you actually happen to survive all the money and lifesaving would be worthless for buying selling and trading. I think hypotheticals are hilarious. Funny thing is if it was solely the US collapsing not other countries and they are still booming bitcoin will still be useable but probably wont take USD. 🤣

Similar_Jump6329

Be a real biatch if an EMP went off and the whole world went dark. Stock up on them bullets, food, and lots of water and drugs with them bitcoin earnings!! Haha

hrad95

I'm hopeful for bitcoin, not confident. The bankers have been "vanquished" dozens of times throughout history. They always come back. They always seem to win, in the end. Don't count those evil MFers out. If you think they won't EMP their own country to shut down Bitcoin, you are naive. These people might actually be lizards. The money-magick people were funded both sides of the Napoleonic Wars, WW1, WW2, the Cold War, GWOT. The blood of hundreds of millions of people is on their hands, and they don't seem to care. I hope I'm wrong!

SnooCapers9876

Go search how crypto survive EMP

Good-Ad-9156

Which one is gone forever in an EMP strike? 

Potential-Freedom909

We’ll see who has the last laugh after the Great EMP War of 2044

badgerseed

If the internet collapsed (EMP) all banking, logistics & communication would also stop. The world as we know it would radically change. Food & heating supplies would become the leading trade commodity not gold shavings.

FuckM0reFromR

It sucks to see the president of the most powerful nation on earth profiting by running his own crypto scam. On the other hand, bitcoins resilience through this top-level fuckery is quite impressive. If BTC survives the next 4 years, there's no stopping it. EMP/planetary ahnihilation withstanding.

Pingon25

Buying precious or rare earth metals is always a great idea. I LOVE BTC. But, if some catastrophe or event occurs where internet connections are deactivated or an EMP is detonated, gold, iridium, etc is not a bad idea either.

Tax__Player

One EMP shot and all those drones fall out of the sky.

AdOptimal4241

Imagine there is an EMP, how does your bitcoin provide utility?

AccomplishedPhase883

Yep. Got to keep some paper or coin (I like my old analog car, zero tech zero monitors or sensors, EMP what is that?).

jlittle984

Canada does not provide 93% of US domestic electric power-that’s rubbish. Any national scale power outage of more than 3 days, and your BTC will be the least of your worries. If you think that’s a risk (very unlikely short of an EMP attack), you’d be better to invest in freeze dried food, clean water, guns and bullets than BTC. Your hardware wallet stores your private keys, but it usually interacts with a wallet app, which lives on a phone or computer. How are you going to buy, sell, transfer BTC with no internet, which relies on power? In the event of a descent into a multi-day, mad max scenario, if you had the means to get somewhere with power, you take and use your hardware wallet there…

luv2fly781

If you just send a couple EMP missiles. You can mine massive amounts lol

John-zel

I love bitcoin but gold has it’s advantages in making electronics, jewelry and utilities like teeth. And i bet in the apocalypse, gold may be useful as currency when no electricity and computers are scarce or destroyed in EMP strikes or nukes

Tiny-Design-9885

You’d have to EMP the whole earth to destabilize the BTC network. But the FEDs computers are very centralized. Large players use bunkered backup. BTC blockchain data is also there. Using AI computer warfare attacks from the inside is the only way. But the BTC network is the most secure network ever invented.

SST114

Which usually ends in "well, if an asteroid kills the earth..... major cyber attack EMP the whole planet"... K, well if end of life as we know it is the counter argument then you have won the debate LOL

Amins66

Aliens with a global EMP

hazcoin

What part is confusing about what I said? The point is you can store your multisig seed words in multiple locations. With single sig if someone sees your seed words you’re stuffed, and that is by far the most likely way you’re going to lose your coins. I’m not sure why you think EMP would affect this? You would still have your seed words written down, just each set is in a different location. Regarding metal plates, I was pointing out that it’s really not important with multig because if you lose one set of words to fire/flood etc you can still access your funds.

mattmcegg

huh? where are you going to store the multisig keys? if an EMP goes off and your hard drive is fried that you encrypted the seed is on you lose your bitcoin. and yea were not talking small sums of money for any of this i dont think.

Wrest_Assured

Apparently there are laws against it. I saw a news glib about it a while back. I believe they said there are laws against using projectiles or EMP pulses for disabling the drones. Utter silliness... Maybe they should put giant nets up...

FrostyTippedBastard

I literally had a friend ask what happens if the US gets EMP’d by Russia and all the power goes out. I just shook my head and said yeah man in that case everybody is fucked not just crypto…

dontygrimm

I feel like, and just year me out I love the technology we have, the advancements we have made, love video games. Love the pleasantries of life, but we need a global EMP that wipes out everything, electricity, internet, phones cars, go back to the old days of having to walk or make or grow things yourself

Frogolocalypse

If an EMP is used, water and food production stops, and you die.

Dear_Bumblebee_1986

It'll be unfortunate when the EMP hits and it doesn't exist anymore and the silver and gold people are laughing.

UtahJohnnyMontana

EMP is regional, Bitcoin is global. Your bank account might get wiped out by the EMP, but Bitcoin will still be running somewhere. Of course, you might not care that much when you are hiding from cannibals in the dark.

Amber_Sam

If we won't be able to fix consequences of this magical EMP within the next 4 years, human race might won't exist anymore.

SmoothGoing

Burned every chip. Magical EMP. Only the underground ones survived see?

vremains

Serious question, say there's a global EMP and the whole Internet goes down for years... Society recovers and we get the Internet back up and running. Can't we access the BTC Blockchain like nothing ever happened?? Or does it have to be like, "remade" and start all over...

Livid_Cat_8241

lmao, and what happens if there is an EMP attack. physical assets are the only to prepare for your doomsday scenario

Complete_Fold_7062

I will love when financial institutions get destabilized and bitcoin isn’t worth shit 💩 It is absolutely retarded that people put their money into a digital currency that is based on the assumption that we all say it’s worth something. Power goes out. What then? EMP?

AccomplishedBad8259

EMP attack

gorilla-balls

Given your situation in Lebanon, I think the Tangem wallet would be perfect for your needs. Here's why: For emergency situations like yours, their backup system is ideal. Instead of dealing with seed phrases that you'd need to somehow safely transport (metal plates, etc), Tangem gives you multiple backup cards that are synced together. You can keep one card on you, one in a safe place, and another with trusted family - perfect if you need to move quickly. Each card is protected by biometrics/access code, so even if one is found, your crypto stays safe. Security-wise, it's actually more secure than traditional hardware wallets. It uses an EAL6+ certified Samsung chip (highest security standard available), and the private keys are generated inside the chip and can never be extracted - by anyone. They've protected over 2M wallets since 2018 with zero successful hacks. The firmware is independently audited and the app is completely open-source. A huge advantage for your situation is portability. The cards are waterproof, EMP-proof, and barely thicker than a credit card. No batteries to charge, no cables needed - just tap it on your phone to access your crypto. It's literally built to survive extreme conditions (-25°C to 50°C) and is guaranteed for 25+ years. For getting your crypto off Binance quickly: Setup takes 3 minutes, and you can immediately start transferring your assets. The app supports 13,000+ cryptocurrencies and lets you manage everything with just a tap of the card. Importantly for your region - Tangem doesn't run any servers or collect any user data. It's just you, your wallet, and the blockchain. No one can freeze or seize your assets because you have true self-custody. The multi-card backup system means you don't have to worry about losing access if you lose your phone or need to flee quickly - as long as you have one of your backup cards, you can recover everything instantly on any phone with the app. Stay safe out there. Hope this helps!

Arnold_Grape

Then I’ll just go to my Bank of America ATM in the event of an EMP Attack. I’m sure Walmart will still take cash during an EMP Attack. The real threat is an asteroid. If that hits BTC will be down but all banks will be open. This is why I’m long on cash and ATMs.

Imaginary_Cap_9500

Im surprised at the ignorance in some of the comments. They do say ignorance is bliss… The harsh reality is that if a Nuclear War occurs, we are all screwed. Forget Cyrpto, forget markets, forget life as we know it. Every single country on this Earth will face a hellish reality. Entire cities, continents will be vaporized. Electrical grids, signal grids, and everything technology related can be destroyed with EMP technology dating to the 1960s. Imagine now. Those not killed by vaporization will be killed by blasts of wind. Those not killed by the initial devastation will perish from radioactive fallout, nuclear winter, nuclear scorching summer. Those who did die initially will be considered the very lucky compared to those that have the face the nightmare of what comes next. Very few people will survive and we will be set back 20,000 something years to hunter gather society. And we are closer than ever to this reality. Much closer than arguably the Cold War. I saw it somewhere in the comments, I also recommend Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobson

acexualien95

I have the opposite of fomo, i feel if i ever buy crypto, that's when a solar flare causes an EMP cutting off the whole world of electricity and the Internet.

TotallyNotAbot-10

Unfortunately, it would not take much of EMP blast to knock out they say 95% of all satellites but who knows yeah, it was more of a thought experiment type of rationale. I really don’t think that will happen but hell who knows?

JamesScotlandBruce

If you haven't already then searching this Reddit for EMP gives lots of results with interesting discussion about that scenario.

TotallyNotAbot-10

Yes, the most frequent and often EMP burst come from the sun, but we are entering a whole new realm of warfare I know people made fun of Trump endlessly for making space force but space is absolutely the newest frontier he controls space controls the entire fucking planet.

TotallyNotAbot-10

But EMP blast happen every few centuries and we have no idea to what extent because the last time it happened there were only telegraph wires around, but they were completely utterly fried

TotallyNotAbot-10

I realize this is the worst case scenario, but EMP blast can happen naturally without any intervention of any government

TotallyNotAbot-10

I used to think that if you had your bitcoin in cold storage, even if a EMP blast goes off that your investment would be golden but unless your computer and your server is in a farady cage/box, but even then if EMP blast goes off, everything is going to be lost right? I mean even if you know 12 or 24 password if the grid goes down everything in bitcoin etc., is just fucking lost forever?

chess_the_cat

That’s pretty optimistic. An internet of the 90s after a nuclear war?  After an EMP?  With no electricity?  With no infrastructure?  Not sure if you’re aware of what a nuclear war entails. 

EconomyPrior5809

Compass, camera, wifi, USB port, and 100k apps that work offline. The "phone" part of a phone isn't that important. Now if we're talking full-on EMP destroying every piece of electronics on the globe then why even bother with this thread? The interesting conversation is about something short of that.

TeaAge1

Starlink will be gone. On a full blown nuclear war, the EMP will fry all satellites (except maybe those in geostationary orbit 30000 miles away)

TeaAge1

A smartphone is worth nothing without reception. Remember that 30 years ago the world worked perfectly without Internet at all. I agree with Spaceballs. It highly depends on how far this nuclear war sets us back. Are we talking about dropping several hundred nuclear bombs in an endless series of retaliation strikes? If so, then civilization is gone for good. We will kill each other for any drop of uncontaminated water or food. When the dust is settled and most people died of radiation sickness or cancer and we find some uncontaminated land, the first blossoms of economy will be based on direct exchange of goods. The next step would be a more universal good, that almost everyone needs, then a more abstract version of that based on a material, that's accessible wherever we land. Maybe gold, maybe pearls, maybe logs of a certain tree. If we talk about a few bombs that leaves a good portion of infrastructure intact but fries all of our electronics through the EMP, we propably will start to establish more reliable, less complex ways of communication first and slowly rebuild the world wide web. Transistor radios at first. local networks next. I think crypto won't be a thing for a long time, because it needs high infrastructural demands, if you really want to use it as payment method. I'd even believe, that we will start anew on they blockchain front. Frankly, the bitcoin blockchain is a mess. It's one of first versions of blockchain and has several problems in their architecture. I think we would use the clean start to establish a new blockchain with a better architecture. I mean if we wanted to reestablish bitcoin we have to come to a consensus which version of the blockchain we should use. The most probable alternative would be the version seconds before the first bomb. But whats with all the people that lost their private keys? It's possible that 17 of the 19 million bitcoin will be lost forever. Would be a bad start.

Tasty-Window

How about harden the grid against EMP as a condition of this?

MagicalManequin

Would you sell your home and go to Vegas with the money? Bet it all on the tables? Same thing. There isn’t an intrinsic value in it. When the Chinese take out our electrical grids with an EMP where that electric currency is kept? How do you buy food then?

fading319

> I strongly believe in btc but if we ever suffer an EMP attack that bitcoin is going to be worthless. Then again if we suffer an EMP attack bitcoin will be the least of our concerns I love how you already typed out the exact response you would've gotten if you didn't include that second part. You know why people always tell this to the "hurr durr but what if the internet goes out" crowd? Because it's true. BTC *will* be the least of our worries. It depends on the scenario. If it's only the internet, and if it's only temporary, then maybe the damage won't be too bad. But if it's the internet + the whole power grid (electricity, lights), then it's GG on a global scale. Your gold will be equally as worthless. We'll go full primates again. Bullets, weapons, food and water will be the bartering chips, not gold. People will even refuse a full kilogram of gold for a 50cl bottle of water, because what's gold to them if they know that our world will never return to normal?

thupkt

No he is referring to a situation such as a giant EMP or solar storm rendering all electronics inoperable. Most people believe that without electricity, your bitcoin has zero value.

MiniDrow

Gold is pretty much the same thing but you don’t need the internet to trade gold nor do you need it to store it. I strongly believe in btc but if we ever suffer an EMP attack that bitcoin is going to be worthless. Then again if we suffer an EMP attack bitcoin will be the least of our concerns 😂 75% of the population would die out within a month.

Granbo_

Makes sense only but I’m really thinking are government should put more effort into EMP or solar storm protection this is all for nothing not saying be paranoid about it just make steps towards a better direction

IdentifyAsUnbannable

Its only a matter of time (global adoption and comfort) until BTC market cap supercedes gold. It's better in every way except the fact it hasn't been around as long. That and if the world gets hit by a massive EMP from the sun, at which point, I don't give two fucks about money. We going into survival mode as a species.

Tasty_Action5073

It is unhackable. and there are nodes everywhere even in space. so EMP attack is lame and meaningless.

Delicious-Touch-3747

yeah well….if someone hacks bitcoin then what…. if we have a EMP attack (no electricity) then what?

itchynipnips

Lmao. When something completely digital and essentially make believe, overtakes something that is physically real and valuable… the world has gone mad 🤣. If the world’s electrical system gets destroyed by a massive EMP, then all that shit gets wiped out.

SolventAssetsGone

The longest chain wins, the chain with the most proof of work will be Bitcoin. Did you send your life savings moments before the EMP? Then you might be left wondering. But so long as you control your keys; you can sleep at night because all across the globe there are copies of blockchain with all your utxo’s. The simple bitcoin network will be up and running long before you can google “what happened to my bitcoin?”

na3than

Have you ever asked what happens to your bank records in the event of an EMP? There are 1000x more copies of every Bitcoin transaction ever made than there are copies of your bank account info. They're maintained all over the world by everyone who runs a full node, including me.

Asum_chum

How does one “nuke” with and EMP?

ATLienAB

I don’t think your friend’s arguments were the right questions even to be asking, but if you do want to talk about “worst case scenario value is nothing” logic. 1. Gold - if SpaceX is successful at bringing back one or a few asteroids and mining them, the precious metals and other rare earth elements in many of them are in such a high concentration that they would completely stabilize the price of the previously only extracted rare elements. 2. Bitcoin - EMP attacks could wipe out miners at huge rates and probably easily create a 51% attack scenario (takeover of mining network and thus faking of ledgers), and it’s also possible a government level actor like China or North Korea could secretly mass enough computing power to do it. That’s why we have diversification. No one thinks their currency or stock exchange of their sovereign nation will go to zero until their country is beaten in an all out war. Every store of value has pros and cons.

Wonderful_Fun543

I'm not worried about AI....We had the story of Stuxnet years ago, an that MFer put my mind at ease about the whole AI takes over the world stuff....oh that and EMP discharge devices ultimately ensure our survival in this apocalyptic scenario...

BiblicalElder

I'm more conservative about crypto. I think it is more a medium of exchange than store of value. A few got in early and have done very well. I've asked where expected values would peak, and also how values would be impacted for the short term and long term, in the event of a disaster like EMP attack, but haven't gotten many insights on that here, or anywhere, yet. But I do respect those who are more skeptical than me (e.g. Charlie Munger) as well some who think it will outperform gold. I personally don't know, but am happy to own a little.

One_Violinist208

> In the event of a large-scale war, Like Ukraine? Yes it's extremely useful because people can flee with it from Russia and Ukraine without having it stolen. > EMP attack, So full nuclear war? Nothing is useful except food. What drugs are you on? > or severe natural disaster (like hurricanes or flooding) Like the 2 in Florida? BTC was not effected at all.

Amber_Sam

First, your car can run without electricity. You can charge your phone in that car. People/businesses have solar/generators or other ways to keep running at least partially. In this environment, bitcoin payments won't be an issue. In case of an EMP attack, use guns to move to a location where the attack didn't happen, you're OK to use Bitcoin again. Congratulations, you were able to leave a warzone with your savings. So far, very few people were this lucky. Most people making it alive, leave everything behind and have to start over.

excelance

There's a book titled, *"One Second After"* that fictionalizes a massive EMP attack on the US; it's very eye opening and shows how terrible life gets afterwards. We aren't recovering from an EMP for years, maybe decades. Nothing works without electricity and computers. Over 90% of the US dies in the first few months and we devolve into super small communities that continuously fight over resources. Maybe you're not thinking this, but your response to an EMP seems to say that we lose the internet but we can still go to the grocery store and buy an apple that was grown 4000-miles away. That we may not be able to watch our favorite TV show, but as long as we have a few dollars we can go to McDonalds and get a happy meal. The only thing of value will be food, water, medicine, ammo, and vices such as alcohol and cigarettes. Not even precious metals will be used for bartering right after an EMP... possibly a few years when small communities form and mature, but not until then.

BiblicalElder

EMP attacks will knock out data centers and personal computers ... but not forever. The thrust of my question is what will happen with cryptocurrency values in this regime. I don't think crypto is worthless; otherwise, I would not be investing in it (albeit at a much more modest level than true believers--I'm more a detached and curious observer willing to run cheap experiments, science and data).

Pretend-Hippo-8659

EMPs are very localized. You cannot EMP the whole world at the same time. If there is just one computer or system with Bitcoin left, it will go on as normal. Bitcoin is the nuclear cockroach.

BiblicalElder

You've never encountered risk management? Scenario-based risk management and stress testing is just one pillar (as opposed to a measurement like Value At Risk), but it is useful in clarifying risks. In an EMP attack, anything with a computer chip will stop working. Humans who don't have chips inside them will continue to work.

Elegant_Catch109

If it were powerful enough to completely wipe out the entire world’s replication of the Bitcoin timechain simultaneously on every medium that it’s stored on, then Bitcoin would definitionally cease to exist. However an EMP that powerful would also set us back to the point where money is a useless concept anyway. The world is screwed as all logistics systems, monetary systems, communication systems and so on are equally destroyed along with Bitcoin. In that case, you should probably stock up on canned food and ammunition rather than worry about how money works.

BiblicalElder

The Greeks never had to face the risk of EMP attacks. How will blockchainers mitigate this risk? (Note: A little over 1% of my net worth is allocated to cryptocurrency, so I am cautiously optimistic, but more cautious than optimistic)

BiblicalElder

The Greeks never had the risk of an EMP attack knocking out anything with processing and memory chips. How will this risk be mitigated by blockchainers?

LionRivr

I’ve heard: - Quantum computing - Solar flares - EMP’s - Government confiscation via executive order But if we ever got those, then you actually have bigger problems. Bitcoin would only go to 0 if it was destroyed. But Bitcoin is backed by the time and energy spent to create it. It is bound by the laws of physics in a digital realm. The pure psychology of game theory helps protect the network too. You cannot destroy bitcoin. It is too late.

tbkrida

No. We’ve definitely not all sent Bitcoin to the wrong wallet before.😂 If there is an EMP, that knocks out all power, you have bigger things to worry about than Bitcoin temporarily not working. A normal bank would temporarily not work as well, so there’s that. Only something like 20-25% of the money we transact with these days is actual cash and most transactions are done electronically.

Empty_Awareness2761

EMP or another cryptocurrency. Gold tell the human race starts mining asteroids.