HF

Slvrg

HF missing the rally xD

zeroccx

For me, they're not buying HF for today's revenue. They're buying a huge developer ecosystem that could become even more valuable as AI moves further into softwware and deployment

15pH

As a small investor, I think buy and hold is absolutely the best plan. When you compete against all the other market players (market makers, HF traders, insiders, brilliant analysts, MIT nerds with $millions in supporting infrastructure...) your only advantage is your time scale. All the professionals need results on short time scales. 1day, month, year. Maybe 3 years for a stable fund manager. You can make a 10 year investment thesis. I really like AMPX, a small-cap with a head start on next gen lithium batteries with high density and capabilities, nearing profitability. The stock pingpongs up and down like mad based on macro backgrounds and short term effects. I don't need to care about any of that, and I'd be crazy to think I can profit (on average, over time) by trying to time trades and read the subtle signals better than the pros, insiders, and algos. I can zoom out, believe in the long term plan, and allow all the small victories to stack up over time to my eventual benefit. >But it will transition to a slow-grower due to its size.... Would it make more sense to reallocate to faster growing companies or companies that are grossly undervalued? Do you think you can properly value a company and predict growth better than the stock market? If so, go right ahead. On a 3+ year time scale, I think us retail chumps can do that in fields where we are experts. Inside a couple years, it's probably priced in better than we can see.

connly33

According to who ? According to HF they brought in 130 million in revenue, but still had to dip into $230 million d series funding. In 2025 they brought in 100 million in revenues, and again still had to dip into remaining d series venture capital funding.

MultiheadAttention

You wrote so many words, but it does not change the fact that HF is profitable since 2024 🤷🏻‍♂️

thisusername_is_mine

Goodbye to top chinese open source models on HF and to all the related modding/finetuning, time to look around for another hosting site.

objectsinthemirror92

Or Nvidia bought HF so they can sue OpenAI

McNoKnows

Exactly. Habits are hard to break. If HF does what people need, people will keep using it. Unless it completely breaks, or someone builds something that is paradigm-shift better, then there’s little reason for people to switch to a different product

TheRandomArtist

I thought it was because of the OpenAI attack, where it's sentient agents went rogue and attacked HF. It seems likely it left copies of itself there to further other attacks, and NVDA is desperately trying to track down all instances before they spread towards total catastrophe.

zennsunni

Yeh the only place it falls off is production deployment and training since megatron is so optimized. Otherwise yeah it's hard to over sell how ubiquitous it is. I honestly thought it was an open non profit lol, had no idea it was a private company even after all these years. I maintain numerous HF models at work.

intelligentx5

This thread has taught me that a majority of yall degens don’t do much in AI if you think HF’s value is just a repo interface 😂.

fritzmonkey

And $150 million in yearly revenue. Apparently HF has been profitable since 2024 too, which was surprising.

zennsunni

Yes. They are so ubiquitous that their language model standards get used by name, in contrast to (for example) Nvidias megaton library. If you work in a technical role in ML, HF is a household name.

kjbbbreddd

HF

Melodic-Ebb-7781

Except very little inference goes through HF?

kennypu

well, yes, because most of the popular open source models and tooling already run on CUDA. It would make no sense for Nvidia to starting locking down/limiting HF; all the models/developers will just move elsewhere. It is in favor of Nvidia to let the open source side of things flourish and get better, as that would put pressure on competitors, and also means both hobby and commercial uses of AI will need to use Nvidia hardware/software.

Paul_Robert_

Walter White should've used Sodium Hydroxide to dissolve that body, instead of HF.

OmegaThree3

Obvious never works in stocks, its not that easy - HF managers can't beat the SPY

rapkingish

You’re so ignorant you don’t even know the space you’re talking about. I’ve been a professional trader for >10 years. Thousands of trades a month with positive skew and tight stops. The fact you think it’s the same as roulette proves your a fish. Some players in the market have a real edge. Players like citsec, citadel HF, JS, and others do have an edge and you’re out of your mind if you think otherwise

PaperHandsTheDip

Lol. Very hand waved buy I built computer programs that look for pricing inefficiencies in the same (or highly correlated) assets in the crypto market and deployed them on computers in the same datacenter as exchanges. If the pricing differences ever got large enough (more than fees), it was possible to buy in one place, sell in the other and immediately make a profit. Think BTC - it trades on binance & also trades on OKX. Turns out it's very possible to do, and accounts for a very large part of global trade volume. It's just called arbitrage, risk free profits. I stopped doing it in crypto markets many years ago, but still managed to extract north of $10m from it in a few years. Arbitrage: [https://imgur.com/a/LuLzme2](https://imgur.com/a/LuLzme2) \- IE: Open these two tabs - prices will be different. [https://www.okx.com/trade-swap/btc-usdt-swap](https://www.okx.com/trade-swap/btc-usdt-swap) [https://www.binance.com/en/futures/BTCUSDT](https://www.binance.com/en/futures/BTCUSDT) \- Started using reddit as during my time building HF systems I realized flow is the only thing that actually moves a market (it's also what causes arbitrages to appear). Literally nothing else matters. WSBs is one of the worlds largest retail investing forum and I'm a gambler at heart (poker player) - so I figured why not try it on markets? Works alright all things considered.

Quixotus

Are you a HF analyst? Or are you asking for a friend?

That-Decision-7194

Does that also mean HF analysts have to wake up extra early?

Kassdhal88

In the word of the one guy I take for being the best tech HF manager « get long until the end, you’ll be able to turn after the peak way faster than retail »

Proudrugby

Underrated comment. KG would have known he wasn't hedged. Massive conflict of interest being a MM and HF. Complete shark

DoubleIntroduction25

If we're talking about a family with the wealth level that is traditionally associated with a family office which is to say mid to high 10s of millions and up I'd be very cautious here. A traditional family office isnt just investment advice, it also includes deal sourcing/networking with PE/HF/FoF companies, legal advise, entity formation, tax management, etc often across more than one country and on behalf of multiple members of the family who may be in different life stages with different wealth levels. Besides the technical complexity involved in all that there's the personal relationship element, not all members of the family are going to want you to know all of their personal financial, legal, and tax information. If you are a member of the family yourself it's also hard to remain impartial and objective. That all being said it is always great to learn something new. I work in the industry and have more certifications than I know what to do with. Some of them I very rarely use, but I enjoy learning. If you're not planning to advise anyone outside of your family there's no reason for a formal program. Grab a used set of books from a CFP or CFA or CPA program and dive in. I'd recommend course books and not test prep books. Course books tend to be more focused on teaching the ideas.

johndsmits

umac won't be mass producing motors for 18months from now (I dunno is the 2 machines were even delivered yet). They are still handmade-ish like the old KDE direct or white labeling, lol. I've worked with/for the other OG players (Intel/QC/3DR/HF/GP) and a. open source has fragmented the supply chain and made it 100% easy to clone... mind that's DJI's playbook since 2012. And b. there's no Apple of this industry aside from DJI trying to be so (with the help of CCP subsidies) I'm looking at taking a break from this messy situation (and possibly raise some cash to fix it). Frustrating.

Haikoe

HF at the dump on Monday, retards

VirtualMoneyLover

The big original gain came from HF fees though. (aka risking other people's money, I guess the smart way) He only did 200% with his net worth since 2008.

VirtualMoneyLover

The big original gain came from HF fees though. (aka risking other people's money, I guess the smart way) He only did 200% with his net worth since 2008.

Miliator69

I’m gonna start looking into SCHG, HE and HF and I also need to fix my split between my individual and etfs this as all helpful thank you

Ok_GAINZ

if all we had to do was sacrifice a HF manager, why didn't we do that in June?

HairlessBandicoot

Btw, he is from their Private Bank. Their focus is different - it's on wealth preservation and his view would be prudential. He's publishing for individuals not your HF / insti sharks.

External-Let-8620

He hopped from crypto to AI, wrote a much vaunted blogs post that reeks of basically being free enough to have a blog of captain obvious thoughts while the real engineers were toiling away, and used that to persuade insti and some other technologically illiterate / desperate boomers to give him money. Kudos where it’s due, he then leveraged those connections to get into a lot of private investments early. Then kept self glazing until people gave him money to start a public fund as well. This isn’t a HF playbook, it’s a typical venture-grifter playbook imho.

Hot_Sacks

Who generally ends up exercising call option contracts at the end of the chain? HF’s?

Hot_Sacks

Who generally ends up executing call options contracts at the end of the chain? HF’s?

092Casey

Situational Awareness HF got liquidated on MU 🤣 🤣 🤣 

NoProfessional4650

Nah you’re wrong. When funds smell blood in the water they go for it. I’m not saying the entire month was caused by this but once the initial sell off began and started to cascade it absolutely contributed to it. I was talking to my friend who works at a HF in NYC and he was saying everyone knew Leopold and once they got whiff that he’s overleveraged when the names started tanking, they took shorts and sold off in an attempt to liquidate him. Citadel got his entire public book for a $3BN discount. Goldman was his prime broker and citadel and Goldman have a really good relationship when it comes to placing large distressed blocks.

Philzerz

No one is forced to give allo to HF’s😭

IllGene2373

Those guys were literally fraudsters, Leopold is (as far as we know) a legitimate HF manager

justbrowsinginpeace

I had HF clients who were 22x and even one that was 80x....but I agree leverage is going to fuck you up when it goes wrong.

Breakingmyhead

God Bless Me...... some HF or Person is enjoying my lss 

VirtualMoneyLover

>not every hedgefund is specifically meant to beat the market His performance was pretty much the same as the Nasdaq's. And if HF managers can't even beat the index, why are we giving them an extra 1-2%? But you are right, very few beats the index in a 10 years stretch, and Burry did. Just not by much.

092Casey

And I didn't, but 63 1 month after holding that 100-150 range while: -it gets listed on a major exchange -lands air force contract -other good news ....is pure planned and careful HF manipulation, an opportunistically orchestrated plan to steal bc they know those who bought in 90-150 are leveraged in margin and have to sell now. Once they do it'll be right back up to 75+. Just bc. And the reason will be all the catalysts they've been ignoring like they haven't happened.

Hopeful_Sounds

You can bet some HF and quant trading firm is profiting off of this

AQOntCan

This is the smallstreetbets posts I love to see. GL/HF

EpicDOgeMC

Even if I'd paid double I'd still have 5x'd" is only true because GOOG got lucky. Entry price only rescues you when the business works out. Overpay 2x for Intel in 2015 and no holding period saves you. There's no entry price that fixes a wrong thesis about the business, and the business is the part you can't know in advance. So the demonstration is still running on a stock you already know won. So my general point - the prices of these companies are being set (bought up or sold down) by the AM/HF firms on wall street. The only way to outperform without luck is being smarter about the price - which means you have to be smarter then the top analysts and systems at these firms. You arent betting on good companies, you are betting that these analysts are wrong at the price/multiple they have set the company at, and the odds that you can think of something that they havent is very very low.

Odaskills

**SKYQ** 🗞: Sky Quarry Appoints Refining Industry Veteran Ray Hansen as President of Foreland Refining Corporation. Former HF Sinclair executive brings more than 35 years of refinery operations, engineering, and leadership experience to support the Company's next phase of growth! The appointment follows the Company's recent announcement that Foreland Refining has entered its production phase, with refinery operations commencing, and represents an important step toward building Sky Quarry's operational leadership team. As of 2026-07-09 07:17:14 AM EDT, there were 0 shares available with a fee of 123.87%. Bulls need to breal 4.40 🕯 intraday...GL

Necessary-Strike-488

RKLB painful. Very painful. Goodluck to you. I cover the stock in a HF btw.

bzl33

a lot of the HF guys online have said the bottleneck trade is done. so the memory stocks pumping is for exit liquidity.

WhyIsTheDuck

Ya’ll are a bunch of cowards. This is just an attempt to shake out those without conviction in a HF/MM effort to pick up your shares at a price that might be higher than they hoped but less than will break their fund. Basic stop-loss poaching. If you have ever actually realized a positive result from a squeeze situation you probably had to ride out events like this. Don’t enter a trade with money you aren’t willing to lose but also don’t enter a trade because of what some regard on Reddit said. Do your own research. All the right metrics are in place. High CTB, low/zero borrow-able shares, high SI, still multiple WEEKS of trading days to cover, high FTD’s based on data just released. This is still absolutely a trade with massive potential.

maximvmrelief

prob so my bags are packed tho GL HF in the casino

AverageSeniorApplier

full steam ahead 

xlaco

GL HF. it is gonna be gap up thx

Pursuitfarms

have a restaurant in SF, and a Wagyu farm about an hour outside. Lmk. GL HF

Grunblau

I believe this is the entire reason MARA was created… loan BTC, HF short BTC and MARA… dump, then profit. Maybe dilute some to make it more spicy.

Lol-throwaway-WSB

Tbf mkt conditions are suboptimal to be starting in the space. Try again next year,  HF and PE experts make $200+/hr training it now. 😂 possibly related? Curious to compare YoY results, use this year as the benchmark and post results. Could be fascinating!

EffectiveSlacker

FDA Confirms CardiAMP HF II May Support Premarket Approval of CardiAMP Cell Therapy for Ischemic HFrEF

ThinkingOfTheOldDays

Saas up on HF degrossing is funny to me. 

so_chad

2 days to expire.. GG. GL HF

Super-Activity-4675

The SEC needs to ban HF Trading like Europe did.

theGameNWA

after all, there are some regards that beat more than half of HF % increase from last 10 years, just today. the bad part is that these regards didn't had more money to bet

BagHoldingChamp

It’s a HF pumping. The WSB vets known this stock since IPO. History repeat itself.

Exodia4life

I know a HF guy that was like 47% on his prop around dec 15th a couple of years back, and he wanted to close at 50% up atleast and managed to lose like 20% chasing those gains in the next 5 days and just liquidated everything at +25

Ghostehz

Fuck it I’m not waiting, in HPE and AVGO and closing my broker until next week and idc what happens. GLTA HF

Icy_Camp5357

Fortunately for me I do. Unfortunately for me I went to prison for insider trading after working a trading desk at a HF. Yes this was put into Claude so I didn’t have do much work. Yes, more educational posts will be coming soon.

jarMburger

Then you can find boutique HF that does exactly what you ask but most won’t take $$$ unless it’s a reasonable size capital offer. None of them will do ETF since the regulatory and disclosure requirements is too much of a headache

dagobahnmi

Day trading against HF algo counterparties with a RH bot is more analogous to fighting a fire with a Tonka bulldozer. 

technicolorcoated

Was just disclosed. NBIS is now the single largest holding in his HF.

El-Penguin

As they did back in GME and any other squeeze. Traders have feeling too, HF managers do too. And right now that feeling is goddamn fear, they cling to dust so they have the illusion of coming back

Grunblau

I am hoping that HF and private equity can finally stop trying to inflate the broken balloon of TSLA. Part of me believes that it was to preserve the perception of Elon’s companies until this pig finally IPO’s.

VeganChopper

This is a small group of HF like renaissance etc, or a some specific years. If you consider 10 year S&P return vs the median after fees hedge fund return during that tenor, S&P wins easily Hedge funds attract investors as they are less volatile in stress events due to lock in clauses, a lot of focus of captial conservation, ability to invest in a variety of asset classes that have little or no correation with traditional bond or stock markets. In general, over a long horizon, hedge funds have better risk adjusted returns but lower net returns than the S&P

Ahzmer

Word on the street is that SG caesar salad wraps are selling like hotcakes and every tiktok chick is promoing it. Ceo and HF's buying notable stakes. Could be upside here still

eoiioe

Anyone watch Bloomberg yesterday? HF guy said oil and gas will double after the oil shock hits lol, I dunno but I am dipping my toes

Suspicious-Shape-769

How do you know it is a HF guy?

quantum_simpleton

This is objectively a terrible investment strategy, proven many, many times over. Holding cash or Tbills reduces IRR, this is cash drag. Attempting to time the market in such a way is almost guaranteed to underperform market buy/hold, usually by a wide margin. This is coming from a HF professional.

D1finalboss

VIX hit with the stun gun. Not moving what the heck man? And Jane Street HF using me as a cum sock, just tossing me into the corner of their room

Affectionate_Oil666

**mms, scalp fast, hft in .XXXXXXXXXXXC.** * **Scalping at Speed:** They do not make directional bets. Their goal is to capture the tiny fraction of a cent between the bid and ask price millions of times per day. * **The Velocity Mandate:** To do this without taking on massive inventory risk, they must execute at hyper-speed. If they hold a position for more than a few seconds, the market could move against them, wiping out thousands of successful spread captures. **rev for a good tier HF will be higher than a MM.** They're literally two different functions, and there is strict laws that govern what they can and cannot do. **Everyone says fraud fraud, SEC has access to their servers and all their equipment.** * **Direct Server Auditing:** The SEC and FINRA utilize the **Consolidated Audit Trail (CAT)**. This tracking system captures every single quote, order, cancellation, and execution across all US exchanges in real time. Regulators do not just read self-reported statements; they directly audit the raw electronic footprints on the firms' servers. A systemic leak of data across the MM/HF firewall would trigger immediate automated compliance alerts. **I'm not saying it cant happen, but it's harder in the USA.** **But yeah you're right, each has their own style and they chose it. Blackrock and vanguard typically start short squeezes,** they have to by law, and by their mandated etfs buy % of companies, regardless if they like them or not. **No Discretionary Choice:** If a stock is part of the S&P 500 or a specific small-cap index, BlackRock and Vanguard **must** buy it proportional to its index weight whenever investors buy shares of their ETFs. They cannot say, *"We think this company is a fraud, so we skip it."* [Retail Investor Buys ETF Shares] ──> [Inflows to Vanguard/BlackRock] ──> [Mandated Program Buying of Underlying Stock] **in short, citadel shorts/ scalps, hedges and sells options, so does jane street, state, renaissance, etc etc.** **vanguard/blackrock own companies.** **mms: separate function, playing a totally different game, facilitates trades by holding the shares so brokers dont have to pay fees for the execution of a trade. then they are rewarded a spread, and they even compete for it.** **\*\*\*retail is blind to 80% of trades off tape\*\*\*\*** **Masked Liquidity:** **A fund may want to buy 100,000 shares but sets the order to only display 500 shares to the public. Retail Level 2 data only shows the 500 shares, obscuring 99.5% of the actual buying pressure.** **Every 1 h8s darkpools, but they are the most necessary aspect of the game. without them, every 1 would know well in advance what to pile into. where is the fun in that? and even then it isnt a sure thing, a lot of other things have to go well for violent movements upward.** **say firm a) buys 1.5M shares, well, on a lit exchange the price would go up 20-40%, if they do it in the dark pool, it doesnt affect the price.** **the reality is, only the big dogs move the needle, we are just there for a roller coaster ride. but we may help stabilize things, a tiny little bit.** **god speed.**

Constant-Sweet-3718

This logic is terrible. Sure, AI needs memory and storage but... data centers need miles of copper and/or fiber optic cales, cable management, networking equipment, security, power, a/c, etc. So why don't we see the same results with Cisco or Juniper, and so on? Simple answer is... MM/HF haven't front run these companies yet so everyone is chasing gains. You invested and made some money, that's great but it's NOT going to last forever. It night be time to walk away from this one. NFA.

ideaoutage

Can someone elaborate on the token sales? Also, GL HF

Oneitised

Yer sure, but I’m not going to list every way they buy a company using pools, trs, options, convertible debt etc. the comment that he probably had to use options is correct as he probably did. We aren’t talking about the myriad of ways a HF would buy into a company. I’m not suggesting he creates a gamma squeeze to fuck his entry price lol.

asmit9

Can we start a page to watch those two HF and start copying them? 😆

King_Chron

who cares about doug? its like the people in here have a hard on for some small HF guy, makes no sense in my mind here is a bit of history Kass, 64, has shorted Berkshire stock in a bet the price will fall. He is one of three members of an analyst panel that, along with shareholders and journalists, gets to question Buffett and Berkshire Vice Chairman Charlie Munger for five hours at the meeting, which draws more than 35,000 people to Omaha each year. "I had a lot of fun going to the Woodstock music festival on Max Yasgur's farm in Bethel, New York in August 1969. I expect to have almost as much fun - and remember it - going to the Woodstock of Capitalism in Omaha," Kass said in an interview. bro shorted Buffet in 2013 enough said lol

UnknownM007

The HF that sold the 4.3m worth of shares at the peak broke their own rules and said they bought back in to balance it out but other than that I have no fucking clue

MrRo8ot

That guy is right. Figma is the best product in the market. Adobe is the real value trap here. I was a designer growing up with macromedia and Adobe products, I wish I would have Figma back then. They are pushing for AI integration and their MCP server is working well with coding llms. I was managing designers the last few years and all of them were happy users. The market is wrong and it’s just a MM/PB/HF liquidity grab to plumb other holes while waiting out what the real AI victims will be.

-vp-

RL **without** HF isn't something inherently impossible with an LLM / transformer achitecture though. If the model itself is able to self post-train and re-weight itself to "understand" new facts, handle novel tasks asked up them *reliably*, etc.would that meet your definition of AGI? It's something certainly possible with today's architecture albeit likely infeasible in terms of speed, cost, and accuracy and what frontier labs are trying to achieve.

collegefootballfan69

Anyone who does DD doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about. Just think about how far you are away from the actual business. BU Leaders, Management, Executive Management, Board of Directors, Government oversight, Data collectors for HF’s, Analyst for sell side, analyst for buy side, short sellers, long only, active fund managers, guy on the street, your Uber driver and now you thinking your DD is worth something. Its worthless, just wipe your ass with it and flush it down the drain.

tutoredstatue95

There's a reason why the pros use a lot of custom tooling, even if not HF. There's also a reason RH and other platforms like TastyTrade can offer "0 fees". Same as other tech, if you arent paying for it, then you are the product.

OddToba

Think about it this way. Ken Griffin is a top 40 billionaire, right? He owns a market maker, and a hedge fund. Do you think his market making hand (Citadel Securities) just sells calls/options (and pays for order flow from all retail brokers), and just does nothing with that info? His algos know the order book, and if they see that it’s a bullish trend, they’ll push the stock down until retail stops-losses out. Then they’ll slam it the other way. They don’t need to make amazing trades. They just need to shake the masses out of their positions. 51 billion. The highest net worth hedge fund manager by far. Is he a macro-contrarian like Ray Dalio? No. A savvy hands-on manager like Carl Icahn? No. If retail picks up pennies in front of the steamroller, his algo trading HF is the steamroller…

ImpossibleHotel2542

So how much do you think it costs to run their HF bots on Truth’s servers?

TaylDurden

Sure, I’ve worked at a HF for the better part of the last decade and brought the financial expertise and quant knowledge with me. Having had access to a BBG terminal also made me realise how little access to proper data retailers have. I then found co-founders with banking experience and we built a team of professional software developers. They are covering the UI aspects. I cover the fin quant stuff :)

Tricky_Let2806

And what HF do you work at Mr. TA

TheReservedList

If the HF are sitting on cash, then we can only go up.

BrightEnd2316

If we are talking 1970s now the Top Performers in 1970-1980 were Murphy Oil MUR led with a 67.6 total return followed by NACCO Industries NC at 45.03 HF Sinclair DINO at 34.43 and Weatherford International WFRD at 30.77 which is ok for stagflation but not exactly great CAGR for a decade. Also you will need your crystal ball ready to know exactly when next economy downturn happens or some virus hits. ⚠️ The "Holding to 2000" Reality Check While these were the "kings" of the 70s, the transition into the 80s was painful. The oil price collapse of the early 80s hit these stocks immediately: * **Murphy Oil** dropped **38% in 1981** and another **25% in 1982**. * **NACCO** lost over **40% of its value** between 1980 and 1982. * **HF Sinclair** (as Holly Corp) also saw double-digit declines in the early 80s before its late-90s resurgence. 

LunchNo7823

Holding shorts, holding old. GL GL HF

rightsidedown

Ya most of this was regained already, still down but not much. It almost feels like HF traders have bots plugged into Trump's tweets, but the bots don't know he's just lying about things all the time. So now the markets just going nuts with every contradiction.

eoiioe

Give me my money!!!! HF- we have no money lol

AphexPin

You made it there in the first place, you can make it back if you don't let it eat you alive.. GL;HF!

ToddlerPeePee

\> **President Donald Trump has claimed or hinted at least 12 times that the Iran war is over or nearing its end, despite the conflict continuing into its fifth week as of late March 2026.** [**https://www.perplexity.ai/search/how-many-times-had-trump-lied-LlK48deCTwWbWrSQ6HF6Qw**](https://www.perplexity.ai/search/how-many-times-had-trump-lied-LlK48deCTwWbWrSQ6HF6Qw)

Wooden-Variety175

Keep your eyes on EEIQ. Im not getting in but at open it either crashes hard or goes another leg up. NFA. GL HF

Cunning-Linguist2

This is very true. I'm in that industry and see the exact holdings of those pension (mostly state and municipal but also HF's and trusts). All of them have significant PC holdings that have built up over the last 5 years. Exposure in the 30% range (of the entire plan) is not uncommon. Most have skirted policy weightings by peppering the holdings across multiple asset classes to dilute it but it's still there. Those holdings have been marked way too high and the dam will burst soon. We'll see huge markdowns in those funds soon.