OS

CivilizedSteve

IF the models differentiate less over time then it will be more about files and projects and the infrastructure you build around your LLMs...helping Apple and Microsoft (and maybe Google). Do you want to do EVERYTHING using a ChatGPT/Claude/Gemini interface or a Microsoft/Apple OS interface powered by LLMs.

GrossFleshSack

Why doesn't google make laptops and make their own operating system fully compatible with windows based games? They have their entire stack except OS. They could be preloading Gemini, their software suite, be charging for premium, storage. While they are at it they can make the Microsoft word and etc software suite, and adobes as well. The software can't be that hard to make, they can just put 2% of the AI buildout spending into it and have it done in a year.

FullOf_Bad_Ideas

I have a 10k 4000W Nvidia rig and I considered my choices before getting hardware, Apple hardware wasn't in the picture. >apples studios and mac minis are great for local AI There are two main usecases for Apple and AI 1. Machine that an agent can use as their own. Inference runs on cloud Nvidia/AMD/Google/Amazon accelerator, you need local server just to have an OS that agents can use easily and it's nice to have your files locally. It can be a potato as long as it has MacOS in recent version and is stable. AI isn't local. 2. Mac Studio - they look great on Youtube videos when they're used in short context tasks, there are Mac Studio SKUs with 256/512GB of RAM, 400-800 GB/s bandwidth and M3 Ultra. The downside? Prefill speed on interesting models is really low. On DeepSeek V3.2 it was like 20 t/s prefill and 10 t/s decode, something like that. If you ask it to do a web search for you it's fine. If you want it to reason through some math problem, it's ok but you'll have to wait. If you want to use it in a coding assistant like Claude Code or OpenCode, you open up the window and write "Hi", your harness will hit local LLM API and will send a 8000-15000 token prompt. So, assuming 20 t/s prefiil, you'll be waiting 6-13 mins to get "Hey, how can I help you today?". Most power users will want to use LLMs for coding. And slow prefill just makes it unusable for serious coding where model need to read existing code files and docs often. Apple M5 chips have a much better profile, plus models with hybrid attention are making prefill less taxing on compute, but I don't think there are any M5 chips that you can pair with 256GB or 512GB of unified RAM, so I think Apple can start making good AI hardware in the near future. Or it could, before DRAM prices went up to the point where they would make majority of the BOM. So, Apple being a local AI hardware company is something that could happen in the future but it's absolutely not this way right now. There's also PFLash but I am not sure how many models are supported - this could help existing M3 Ultra 512GB owners get more out of their hardware. If you want to run basic local AI image/video/text gen and you don't want to spend a lot of money, cheap CPU + DDR4 + RTX 5070 Ti or used RTX 3090 are the best options.

TwongStocks

Probbaly not. A reverse split does not change market cap. And as long as companies still need to maintain a $1 share price, a RS is still the easiest way to get the share price back above $1. I think we are going to see some shenanigans where companies issue new shares to insiders to increase the OS to help raise their market caps if they are at risk of going below $5m MVLS for 30 days.

RedditIsAWeenie

\* Apple is a dissenting voice already. They will look for inexpensive ways to run low cost models on local hardware. Read: classic Christiansen low cost disruption. They did this before with mainframes and minicomputers, even if almost no-one from those days is still around. \* Nvidia is all in because this is their shot at greatness. I think Jensen is playing it too fast and loose with accounting. Smells of Cisco and Quest in the .com boom with the circular financing. \* Google is taking its usual academic study approach being in without being fully in. While I use gemini for quite a bit, they aren't really monetizing it, at least from me, and I think are just using me as a source of data. Maybe their game is AGI, and know they don't have a product. I do not understand what the spend is all about, but I didn't listen to their earnings. It threatens search, so they are probably at least seeing it as an existential problem the threatens their core business. \* Facebook we already know is dumb \* Microsoft also is usually dumb but lately sometimes does smart things. \* Tesla is faking it until they make it as usual. It's been a dozen years for FSD and still not regulatory approved. I doubt Optimus will proceed very quickly, though there are at least fewer safety issues and regulation there. Grok is what you use when you can't use anything else and don't care if your answers goose step. They are an also ran in AI. \* Amazon is doing .... things... I wouldn't be surprised if they want to run a AWS service for compute time. Past that? Notably the two big companies OpenAI and Anthropic, who have the biggest expertise, are not in the Mag 7, so I'd give a general "Meh" to the mag7 per se. Nividia has bet the company on it. Apple did not. The rest are muddling through and will probably lose substantial bank short term. Long term, if they are still here, I expect it will make money for them once they figure out a business mode. I personally think Nvidia position is fragile. They are easily disrupted by smaller hardware. If people can figure out how to avoid $billion data centers, they definitely will. Their discrete GPU platform is also ill suited to task requiring fancy expensive ram, with no direct access to the drive and no control over the OS. So largely here there is not a lot to support the thesis that the Mag7 are brilliant, except for the counter-play which is Apple, and of course the actual AI players Anthropic and OpenAI which are hemorrhaging money and a risky play.

mpbh

They are all in duopolies rather than monopolies. Microsoft/Apple for OS, Apple/Google for smartphones, Amazon/Microsoft for cloud, and Meta/Google for digital advertising. Search and social networks aren't markets, they are channels of the digital advertising market.

Vaxtin

The actual answer, other than “monopoly”, is that they currently operate as an oligarchy whether consciously or not. Even Peter Thiel has mentioned this over a decade ago. What they do is have monopolies on individual markets that are worth billions themselves: search, social networks, payments, operating systems, smartphone Microsoft owns OS, Apple owns smartphones, google owns search, Mets owns social networks and therefore targeted advertising, Amazon owns compute — yet they all argue that they compete in a broader landscape: tech/software as whole. They each individually have a monopoly on a market in tech individually worth billions, while being able to argue to the government that they certainly don’t hold a monopoly in tech. I dont think they want it any other way. They’d be labeled a monopoly and broken up. If Apple ever owned the OS market, it’d seem atleast to a layperson that Apple owns all consumer hardware devices. With them staunchly behind windows, they can continue reaping profits from the iPhone ecosystem and throttling payments through iOS while never being concerned about owning a monopoly, atleast to Congress

Specialist_Grade2145

Local hosting is not gonna happen. Why did most companies move from on-prem to cloud? Usage based consumption, security, maintenance and avoiding recurring capex. Most companies would rather avoid building and maintaining their own data centers, it's complex, lot of break fix, hardware & software upgrades, idle time etc. A data center is NOT a one time cost no matter who does it. OpenAI or Anthropic may or may not win but AI will only scale through Hyperscalers. Few will install a Kimi or anything else on prem and face the large security risks. Also the more companies try to build their own data centers the more GPU, memory, storage and infra companies will win because smaller scale and scale economics mean capacity wastage and local overcapacity. But again even Kimi needs 128 GPU cluster which alone costs 5-7 mil dollars just for GPUs (then servers, storage, OS, security set up incl firewalls and apps, cooling, electricity etc) plus hardware and software maintenance. You could start a subscription with Hyperscalers in <$100k. Also Kimi K3 has huge hallucination problem compared to Opus and Luna, even worse than K2, and is not cheap at task level (just token level) because it consumes more tokens.

Specialist_Grade2145

Lol. You basically killed all the cloud aaS model. Why did most companies move from on-prem to cloud? Usage based consumption, security, maintenance and avoiding recurring capex. Most companies would rather avoid building and maintaining their own data centers, it's complex, lot of break fix, hardware & software upgrades, idle time etc. A data center is NOT a one time cost no matter who does it. OpenAI or Anthropic may or may not win but AI will only scale through Hyperscalers. Few will install a Kimi or anything else on prem and face the large security risks. Also the more companies try to build their own data centers the more GPU, memory, storage and infra companies will win because smaller scale and scale economics mean capacity wastage and local overcapacity. But again even Kimi needs 128 GPU cluster which alone costs 5-7 mil dollars just for GPUs (then servers, storage, OS, security set up incl firewalls and apps, cooling, electricity etc) plus hardware and software maintenance. You could start a subscription with Hyperscalers in <$100k. Also Kimi K3 has huge hallucination problem compared to Opus and Luna, even worse than K2, and is not cheap at task level (just token level) because it consumes more tokens.

10YEARSGONEWRONG

Appreciate your insight. I’m very new here so it’s nice to get both sides reactions. Why do you think the CFO is going in so heavy right now? Is it possible a majority of the dilution has already occurred? I’m not sure the current OS from its last filing.

MelvinCapitalPR

> Meta is positioned better than any other company as they don’t have hardware or technology Positioned better? They exist at the mercy of other tech companies. The real big boys like Apple and Google own the whole stack, software + OS + hardware, they're even designing their own silicon. Microsoft has been printing money with Azure. Meta having no hardware moat (on either side) is a weakness they've been worried about for years. Hence dumping money into VR and now AI. > if they are going to spend over $200 billion on a data center that they can’t even find a way to monetize themselves how the hell will anyone else monetize and profit from these massive data centers Meta is in a uniquely bad position to monetise their data centres because their in-house AI is shit.

Gullible_Ad3785

Patrick Boyle called wsb pussies compared to the KOSPI bros https://youtu.be/nJtL9MBVj48?is=1OS385KrpeZ0smb1 4:40

EmbarrassedPart1256

I haven't touched that one since the beginning. There were always too many shares OS for me to be attracted to it...

ths33333

Wtf are you on about? Apple is the company that literally came out with "Apple Intelligence" and added a stock app on everyone's phones to make AI slop emojis that nobody used. They promised to introduce more AI nonsense in their OS, only for it to be a spectacular failure because it required you to ask Siri to "ask ChatGPT about X". This idea that Apple is somehow not already knee deep in AI is horseshit.

ImpressiveAmount4684

Sure maybe that can emerge but you're underestimating how much that would cost in money, time and effort for any everyday corporate company that has too much on their mind to just move from one OS/ecosystem to another. Microsoft has the explicit majority stake in corporate enterprise.

Vast_Cricket

Yes and no. Meta has a ai data center up running mostly in idle mode with huge capacity servers sitting there. Companies just learned AI did not really make the job easier. Human analyze data collected still have make decisions. That means they need put more human on payroll not to take out. If so Capex for future to spend in 2027 and later then needs to be adjusted. Is it well said that $20/ month AI subscription, Meta can immediately find 100M subscribers x 12 month x $20/ month= $24B cost of a data center invested in its first year? There are 330M US internet users. I don't think so. There needs to be a return from paid subscription that is essential to pay for this kind of massive spending. AI race with China comes later. If it takes just 1-2 year to cover the cost of 1-gw ai power center of say $25B is one thing. If it take many years to payback knowing the equipment do not have much life then there is not such an urgency to get these servers lined up now. I think power the data center adding grid get approval will take much longer. It may be they have to build more power plants that will take \~10 years to fulfill the old schedule first. How many stand alone module power plants are running today? Ha. If there is really a crunch, must bring more data centers online now. I do not see why another oversea solid state memory source will not enter US market. Making memory chips are relatively easier than modern stackable ics. Taiwan, Japan all have other companies currently busy making ics. The NAND flash storage modules themselves rely on much older, mature, and cost-effective node sizes, typically around 20-28 nm. Yields below 300 layers are fairly high. At 200 layers it is like 80-90% not 50%. It is those state of the art 3-7 nm used in the processors/GPU/accelerators that is harder to fabricate. Companies over bought parts can easily trade or sell from open market. History seems to repeat itself. I recall there was a severe crunch on Intel Pentium shortage. Buy Buy Buy Intc stock. A surprise September 2000 announcement similar to that from IBM recently. Intel admitted that its third-quarter sales would fall short of expectations, it erased almost \~$90B in market value almost overnight. OS Window 2000 was not ready people put off PC update by then we had a recession. Its stock tanked for almost 24 years. I am not advocating buying or selling MU. That is a decision reserved for investors.

Valkanaa

Microsofts moat has been that they have all these core systems that play well together. Claude might be able to glue different things together (SaaS margin decay) but I have yet to see any core systems or systems of record being replaced by vibe coded things. How many device drivers will Claude need to code in order to make a new OS, with propriety data they don't have?

Impossible-Two9824

What do you think you can't do on a Mac? It's a Unix-based OS. Lots of developers and IT professionals use them.

805falcon

100%. Also, it’s going to get worse for them. Their run is over and the signs are already there. Every single product they produce degrades with each release. Their hardware is fine but their OS and UI’s are absolutely horrific, and have been getting worse, consistently, for almost a decade straight. A company can only glide on previous output for so long and their time is up.

AnalNuts

People are generally pretty ignorant and dumb on what and how memory is used. And apples OS is pretty darn good at utilizing what’s it’s given efficiently

Calm_Situation_1131

I don't think so. The vast majority of users are better served with a reliable device that can further their field of study vs tweaking an OS.

Calm_Situation_1131

I mean Python ate part of MATLAB's lunch, there are Mac OS native versions available of CAD and MATLAB, and there's now cloud competitors of these apps. If you're talking that tiny sliver of students that need gpu acceleration, then they can use Windows. But they'll still likely be locked into Apple's ecosystem for their personal devices.

Detonate-Ralph

Starting their studies with a computer that doesn't let you tweak its OS and apps will be horrible for them.

JimmyTango

Again, faster does not mean they are going to time it with an offset. Push notifications on a phone are multistep process of the app and the phone OS. An API is a call directly to the Truth Social app so if they are giving the buyers high rate limits the sure they get a jump on the data landing but that’s different than insider trading where Truth Social gives the banks X time before the data is public. It should be monitored or investigated to confirm that’s the case but this thread is full of a bunch of folks who don’t understand basic 20yo technology.

ericvega

Not a single one of these is true about Mac OS or Windows. What are you talking about?

Steel_Wool_Sponge

Paying >$500 for an OS that -does not allow you to cut and paste files / folders, only copy -does not natively allow you to maximize a window or snap windows -I personally used an AI to explain to me how to basically edit the registry to make their text cursor manipulation hotkeys not absolute dogshit -why 4 modifier keys BONUS: we are living in an era when an AI can solve protein folding or instantly write something that looks plausibly like a lost scene of Shakespeare and autocorrect is still absolute dogshit. They can't keep getting away with it.

sammybeta

False equivalent. Anthropic is like Microsoft, who built close source code, and users can buy windows based server from providers like AWS or Azure. But one can also nominate to run Linux servers, and usually pays much cheaper rate than the equivalent windows servers. You can even host something in your own data center, without paying Linux Foundation money. Sure, you gonna internalize the maintenance cost. But judging from your comment, it's clear who have won the OS war in hyperscalers - it's the open standard thrives. Now, we never had an open-source OS competition in the beginning days of Windows, so there's many legacy industry depends on windows applications or even mainframes at their core. But for this LLM competition today, we actually have very good licencing framework now, which was what crippled Unix and forced Linus to write Linux, losing years of time to compete. And hyperscalers are so good at all the managed cost you've mentioned above, which will help the open LLM models even more - the cost of running open models are like running Linux servers, just the hardware, real-estate, electricity, bandwidth, salary for ops, and we can get better and better on that.

Etherius

Frankly this is Linux all over again. Everyone thought companies would clamor for Linux because everyone could make their OS do whatever they wanted. Instead we wound up with fractured and fragmented distributions that companies who had no business employing armies of SWEs would ever have the ability to capitalize on. Which is why Microsoft is a trillion dollar company today and Linus Torvalds isn’t a trillionaire. Who has the equipment and manpower to train their own LLM besides the LLM operators? You think a company like LMT is going to waste resources building their own model?

gabest

Year of OS/2. This time for sure.

Rich-Use1484

read this: Despite decades of "the death of the mainframe" predictions, IBM mainframes remain the invisible backbones of the global economy. Today, **71% of Fortune 500 companies**—including 45 of the top 50 banks, 8 of the top 10 insurance companies, and 4 of the top 5 airlines—depend on IBM Z architecture. They are utilized not because they are "legacy," but because their massive I/O (Input/Output) bandwidth, unmatched cryptography, and "five-nines" (99.999%) availability cannot be easily matched by standard cloud servers. These ten massive, real-world use cases rely entirely on IBM mainframes: # 1. Credit Card & Payment Processing (POS & Merchant Clearing) Every time a credit or debit card is swiped, tapped, or used online, there is a roughly 90% chance an IBM mainframe handles the transaction. * **The Scale:** Mainframes process over **1 million transactions per second** globally. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Extremely low latency is required to authorization a payment within milliseconds. The IBM z16 architecture features integrated AI accelerators (the Telum chip) that allow banks to run real-time fraud detection on 100% of transactions *during* the millisecond-level transit window, rather than after the transaction has posted. # 2. Core Retail Banking (Deposits, ATMs, and Ledger Balance) When you check your bank balance, withdraw cash from an ATM, or transfer money, you are interacting with a mainframe. * **The Scale:** Over 90% of the world’s top banks run their core ledger systems on IBM mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** "ACID" compliance (Atomicity, Consistency, Isolation, Durability) is non-negotiable in banking. If an ATM loses power mid-withdrawal, the database must perfectly roll back so money isn't lost. Mainframe operating systems like z/OS are designed for transactional integrity at massive concurrent scales. # 3. SWIFT & Interbank Settlements The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) system coordinates trillions of dollars in global bank-to-bank transfers daily. * **The Scale:** Mainframes support over **29% of global SWIFT messages** and clear virtually all major national settlement workloads (like Fedwire in the US or SIC in Switzerland). * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** The sheer volume and absolute requirement for zero-downtime, tamper-proof ledgers make distributed server farms too risky. IBM’s modern systems offer pervasive hardware-level encryption (encrypting 100% of data at-rest and in-flight) with virtually no performance penalty. # 4. Airline Passenger Service Systems (PSS) & GDS When you book a flight, choose a seat, or check in, you interface with a Passenger Service System (PSS) or a Global Distribution System (GDS) like Sabre or Amadeus. * **The Scale:** 4 out of the top 5 global airlines run their reservation, ticketing, and scheduling systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** High transaction volumes require instantaneous updates. If two passengers click "book" on the last seat on a flight at the exact same millisecond, the system must handle the concurrency perfectly to prevent double-booking. # 5. National Healthcare & Health Insurance Claims Managing patient databases, handling billing, and processing insurance claims are highly complex, data-heavy tasks. * **The Scale:** The world’s largest public and private health insurance providers process hundreds of millions of patient records and claims using IBM Z. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Healthcare data is heavily regulated (e.g., HIPAA, GDPR). Mainframes isolate workloads securely via Logical Partitions (LPARs), ensuring that highly sensitive personally identifiable information (PII) is structurally separate from other computing processes. # 6. Social Security & Pension Administrations Government welfare, pension, and disability systems manage massive monthly payouts. * **The Scale:** Agencies like the US Social Security Administration (SSA) or equivalents in Europe use mainframes to manage the earnings records of hundreds of millions of citizens. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Every month, these systems run massive "batch processing" jobs—such as calculating and issuing millions of electronic payouts simultaneously. Mainframes are uniquely optimized to handle these gargantuan database reads/writes without degrading online front-end services. # 7. Global Supply Chain & Retail Inventory Control Super-retailers (like Walmart or Target) manage millions of active SKUs across thousands of physical stores and online portals. * **The Scale:** 7 of the top 10 global retailers use mainframes to manage their supply chain logistics. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** During peak shopping holidays (like Black Friday), database queries spike exponentially. Mainframes scale up instantly using capacity-on-demand features, dynamically activating extra processors to handle millions of real-time inventory updates without crashing. # 8. Tax Collection & Customs Clearance National tax agencies (like the US IRS or European tax authorities) rely on mainframes to process annual tax filings and corporate returns. * **The Scale:** Processing hundreds of millions of complex tax returns, calculating refunds, and cross-referencing audit triggers. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Mainframes excel at "Parallel Sysplex" clustering—a technology that allows multiple physical mainframe systems to act as a single, massive logical system. This enables tax authorities to process millions of complex mathematical filings simultaneously without the system crashing on filing day. # 9. Telecommunications Billing & Call Detail Records (CDRs) Telecom giants handle billions of data points daily—from call connections and text routing to complex data roaming charges. * **The Scale:** 8 of the top 10 global telecommunication providers run their core billing and rating systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A single telecom provider might generate billions of Call Detail Records (CDRs) every single day. The mainframe's I/O channels are physically separate from the central CPUs, allowing them to ingest and write massive streams of network data to databases without slowing down core application processing. # 10. Automotive & Flight Manufacturing ERPs Large-scale manufacturing relies heavily on complex Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) databases to coordinate millions of physical parts, assembly schedules, and supplier shipments. * **The Scale:** Global aerospace and automotive manufacturers use mainframes to keep assembly lines running smoothly. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A modern commercial airplane or luxury car has tens of thousands of parts sourced from thousands of suppliers. If the database coordinating these parts goes down for even one hour, it can halt physical assembly lines, costing millions. Mainframes offer "fault-tolerant" hardware design, allowing IT teams to replace failing processors, memory, and power supplies while the computer is fully running.

Rich-Use1484

This is what Gemini says about IBM Mainframes: Despite decades of "the death of the mainframe" predictions, IBM mainframes remain the invisible backbones of the global economy. Today, **71% of Fortune 500 companies**—including 45 of the top 50 banks, 8 of the top 10 insurance companies, and 4 of the top 5 airlines—depend on IBM Z architecture. They are utilized not because they are "legacy," but because their massive I/O (Input/Output) bandwidth, unmatched cryptography, and "five-nines" (99.999%) availability cannot be easily matched by standard cloud servers. These ten massive, real-world use cases rely entirely on IBM mainframes: # 1. Credit Card & Payment Processing (POS & Merchant Clearing) Every time a credit or debit card is swiped, tapped, or used online, there is a roughly 90% chance an IBM mainframe handles the transaction. * **The Scale:** Mainframes process over **1 million transactions per second** globally. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Extremely low latency is required to authorization a payment within milliseconds. The IBM z16 architecture features integrated AI accelerators (the Telum chip) that allow banks to run real-time fraud detection on 100% of transactions *during* the millisecond-level transit window, rather than after the transaction has posted. # 2. Core Retail Banking (Deposits, ATMs, and Ledger Balance) When you check your bank balance, withdraw cash from an ATM, or transfer money, you are interacting with a mainframe. * **The Scale:** Over 90% of the world’s top banks run their core ledger systems on IBM mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** "ACID" compliance (Atomicity, Consistency, Isolation, Durability) is non-negotiable in banking. If an ATM loses power mid-withdrawal, the database must perfectly roll back so money isn't lost. Mainframe operating systems like z/OS are designed for transactional integrity at massive concurrent scales. # 3. SWIFT & Interbank Settlements The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) system coordinates trillions of dollars in global bank-to-bank transfers daily. * **The Scale:** Mainframes support over **29% of global SWIFT messages** and clear virtually all major national settlement workloads (like Fedwire in the US or SIC in Switzerland). * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** The sheer volume and absolute requirement for zero-downtime, tamper-proof ledgers make distributed server farms too risky. IBM’s modern systems offer pervasive hardware-level encryption (encrypting 100% of data at-rest and in-flight) with virtually no performance penalty. # 4. Airline Passenger Service Systems (PSS) & GDS When you book a flight, choose a seat, or check in, you interface with a Passenger Service System (PSS) or a Global Distribution System (GDS) like Sabre or Amadeus. * **The Scale:** 4 out of the top 5 global airlines run their reservation, ticketing, and scheduling systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** High transaction volumes require instantaneous updates. If two passengers click "book" on the last seat on a flight at the exact same millisecond, the system must handle the concurrency perfectly to prevent double-booking. # 5. National Healthcare & Health Insurance Claims Managing patient databases, handling billing, and processing insurance claims are highly complex, data-heavy tasks. * **The Scale:** The world’s largest public and private health insurance providers process hundreds of millions of patient records and claims using IBM Z. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Healthcare data is heavily regulated (e.g., HIPAA, GDPR). Mainframes isolate workloads securely via Logical Partitions (LPARs), ensuring that highly sensitive personally identifiable information (PII) is structurally separate from other computing processes. # 6. Social Security & Pension Administrations Government welfare, pension, and disability systems manage massive monthly payouts. * **The Scale:** Agencies like the US Social Security Administration (SSA) or equivalents in Europe use mainframes to manage the earnings records of hundreds of millions of citizens. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Every month, these systems run massive "batch processing" jobs—such as calculating and issuing millions of electronic payouts simultaneously. Mainframes are uniquely optimized to handle these gargantuan database reads/writes without degrading online front-end services. # 7. Global Supply Chain & Retail Inventory Control Super-retailers (like Walmart or Target) manage millions of active SKUs across thousands of physical stores and online portals. * **The Scale:** 7 of the top 10 global retailers use mainframes to manage their supply chain logistics. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** During peak shopping holidays (like Black Friday), database queries spike exponentially. Mainframes scale up instantly using capacity-on-demand features, dynamically activating extra processors to handle millions of real-time inventory updates without crashing. # 8. Tax Collection & Customs Clearance National tax agencies (like the US IRS or European tax authorities) rely on mainframes to process annual tax filings and corporate returns. * **The Scale:** Processing hundreds of millions of complex tax returns, calculating refunds, and cross-referencing audit triggers. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Mainframes excel at "Parallel Sysplex" clustering—a technology that allows multiple physical mainframe systems to act as a single, massive logical system. This enables tax authorities to process millions of complex mathematical filings simultaneously without the system crashing on filing day. # 9. Telecommunications Billing & Call Detail Records (CDRs) Telecom giants handle billions of data points daily—from call connections and text routing to complex data roaming charges. * **The Scale:** 8 of the top 10 global telecommunication providers run their core billing and rating systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A single telecom provider might generate billions of Call Detail Records (CDRs) every single day. The mainframe's I/O channels are physically separate from the central CPUs, allowing them to ingest and write massive streams of network data to databases without slowing down core application processing. # 10. Automotive & Flight Manufacturing ERPs Large-scale manufacturing relies heavily on complex Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) databases to coordinate millions of physical parts, assembly schedules, and supplier shipments. * **The Scale:** Global aerospace and automotive manufacturers use mainframes to keep assembly lines running smoothly. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A modern commercial airplane or luxury car has tens of thousands of parts sourced from thousands of suppliers. If the database coordinating these parts goes down for even one hour, it can halt physical assembly lines, costing millions. Mainframes offer "fault-tolerant" hardware design, allowing IT teams to replace failing processors, memory, and power supplies while the computer is fully running.

Rich-Use1484

Despite decades of "the death of the mainframe" predictions, IBM mainframes remain the invisible backbones of the global economy. Today, **71% of Fortune 500 companies**—including 45 of the top 50 banks, 8 of the top 10 insurance companies, and 4 of the top 5 airlines—depend on IBM Z architecture. They are utilized not because they are "legacy," but because their massive I/O (Input/Output) bandwidth, unmatched cryptography, and "five-nines" (99.999%) availability cannot be easily matched by standard cloud servers. These ten massive, real-world use cases rely entirely on IBM mainframes: # 1. Credit Card & Payment Processing (POS & Merchant Clearing) Every time a credit or debit card is swiped, tapped, or used online, there is a roughly 90% chance an IBM mainframe handles the transaction. * **The Scale:** Mainframes process over **1 million transactions per second** globally. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Extremely low latency is required to authorization a payment within milliseconds. The IBM z16 architecture features integrated AI accelerators (the Telum chip) that allow banks to run real-time fraud detection on 100% of transactions *during* the millisecond-level transit window, rather than after the transaction has posted. # 2. Core Retail Banking (Deposits, ATMs, and Ledger Balance) When you check your bank balance, withdraw cash from an ATM, or transfer money, you are interacting with a mainframe. * **The Scale:** Over 90% of the world’s top banks run their core ledger systems on IBM mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** "ACID" compliance (Atomicity, Consistency, Isolation, Durability) is non-negotiable in banking. If an ATM loses power mid-withdrawal, the database must perfectly roll back so money isn't lost. Mainframe operating systems like z/OS are designed for transactional integrity at massive concurrent scales. # 3. SWIFT & Interbank Settlements The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) system coordinates trillions of dollars in global bank-to-bank transfers daily. * **The Scale:** Mainframes support over **29% of global SWIFT messages** and clear virtually all major national settlement workloads (like Fedwire in the US or SIC in Switzerland). * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** The sheer volume and absolute requirement for zero-downtime, tamper-proof ledgers make distributed server farms too risky. IBM’s modern systems offer pervasive hardware-level encryption (encrypting 100% of data at-rest and in-flight) with virtually no performance penalty. # 4. Airline Passenger Service Systems (PSS) & GDS When you book a flight, choose a seat, or check in, you interface with a Passenger Service System (PSS) or a Global Distribution System (GDS) like Sabre or Amadeus. * **The Scale:** 4 out of the top 5 global airlines run their reservation, ticketing, and scheduling systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** High transaction volumes require instantaneous updates. If two passengers click "book" on the last seat on a flight at the exact same millisecond, the system must handle the concurrency perfectly to prevent double-booking. # 5. National Healthcare & Health Insurance Claims Managing patient databases, handling billing, and processing insurance claims are highly complex, data-heavy tasks. * **The Scale:** The world’s largest public and private health insurance providers process hundreds of millions of patient records and claims using IBM Z. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Healthcare data is heavily regulated (e.g., HIPAA, GDPR). Mainframes isolate workloads securely via Logical Partitions (LPARs), ensuring that highly sensitive personally identifiable information (PII) is structurally separate from other computing processes. # 6. Social Security & Pension Administrations Government welfare, pension, and disability systems manage massive monthly payouts. * **The Scale:** Agencies like the US Social Security Administration (SSA) or equivalents in Europe use mainframes to manage the earnings records of hundreds of millions of citizens. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Every month, these systems run massive "batch processing" jobs—such as calculating and issuing millions of electronic payouts simultaneously. Mainframes are uniquely optimized to handle these gargantuan database reads/writes without degrading online front-end services. # 7. Global Supply Chain & Retail Inventory Control Super-retailers (like Walmart or Target) manage millions of active SKUs across thousands of physical stores and online portals. * **The Scale:** 7 of the top 10 global retailers use mainframes to manage their supply chain logistics. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** During peak shopping holidays (like Black Friday), database queries spike exponentially. Mainframes scale up instantly using capacity-on-demand features, dynamically activating extra processors to handle millions of real-time inventory updates without crashing. # 8. Tax Collection & Customs Clearance National tax agencies (like the US IRS or European tax authorities) rely on mainframes to process annual tax filings and corporate returns. * **The Scale:** Processing hundreds of millions of complex tax returns, calculating refunds, and cross-referencing audit triggers. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Mainframes excel at "Parallel Sysplex" clustering—a technology that allows multiple physical mainframe systems to act as a single, massive logical system. This enables tax authorities to process millions of complex mathematical filings simultaneously without the system crashing on filing day. # 9. Telecommunications Billing & Call Detail Records (CDRs) Telecom giants handle billions of data points daily—from call connections and text routing to complex data roaming charges. * **The Scale:** 8 of the top 10 global telecommunication providers run their core billing and rating systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A single telecom provider might generate billions of Call Detail Records (CDRs) every single day. The mainframe's I/O channels are physically separate from the central CPUs, allowing them to ingest and write massive streams of network data to databases without slowing down core application processing. # 10. Automotive & Flight Manufacturing ERPs Large-scale manufacturing relies heavily on complex Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) databases to coordinate millions of physical parts, assembly schedules, and supplier shipments. * **The Scale:** Global aerospace and automotive manufacturers use mainframes to keep assembly lines running smoothly. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A modern commercial airplane or luxury car has tens of thousands of parts sourced from thousands of suppliers. If the database coordinating these parts goes down for even one hour, it can halt physical assembly lines, costing millions. Mainframes offer "fault-tolerant" hardware design, allowing IT teams to replace failing processors, memory, and power supplies while the computer is fully running.

Rich-Use1484

Despite decades of "the death of the mainframe" predictions, IBM mainframes remain the invisible backbones of the global economy. Today, **71% of Fortune 500 companies**—including 45 of the top 50 banks, 8 of the top 10 insurance companies, and 4 of the top 5 airlines—depend on IBM Z architecture. They are utilized not because they are "legacy," but because their massive I/O (Input/Output) bandwidth, unmatched cryptography, and "five-nines" (99.999%) availability cannot be easily matched by standard cloud servers. These ten massive, real-world use cases rely entirely on IBM mainframes: # 1. Credit Card & Payment Processing (POS & Merchant Clearing) Every time a credit or debit card is swiped, tapped, or used online, there is a roughly 90% chance an IBM mainframe handles the transaction. * **The Scale:** Mainframes process over **1 million transactions per second** globally. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Extremely low latency is required to authorization a payment within milliseconds. The IBM z16 architecture features integrated AI accelerators (the Telum chip) that allow banks to run real-time fraud detection on 100% of transactions *during* the millisecond-level transit window, rather than after the transaction has posted. # 2. Core Retail Banking (Deposits, ATMs, and Ledger Balance) When you check your bank balance, withdraw cash from an ATM, or transfer money, you are interacting with a mainframe. * **The Scale:** Over 90% of the world’s top banks run their core ledger systems on IBM mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** "ACID" compliance (Atomicity, Consistency, Isolation, Durability) is non-negotiable in banking. If an ATM loses power mid-withdrawal, the database must perfectly roll back so money isn't lost. Mainframe operating systems like z/OS are designed for transactional integrity at massive concurrent scales. # 3. SWIFT & Interbank Settlements The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) system coordinates trillions of dollars in global bank-to-bank transfers daily. * **The Scale:** Mainframes support over **29% of global SWIFT messages** and clear virtually all major national settlement workloads (like Fedwire in the US or SIC in Switzerland). * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** The sheer volume and absolute requirement for zero-downtime, tamper-proof ledgers make distributed server farms too risky. IBM’s modern systems offer pervasive hardware-level encryption (encrypting 100% of data at-rest and in-flight) with virtually no performance penalty. # 4. Airline Passenger Service Systems (PSS) & GDS When you book a flight, choose a seat, or check in, you interface with a Passenger Service System (PSS) or a Global Distribution System (GDS) like Sabre or Amadeus. * **The Scale:** 4 out of the top 5 global airlines run their reservation, ticketing, and scheduling systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** High transaction volumes require instantaneous updates. If two passengers click "book" on the last seat on a flight at the exact same millisecond, the system must handle the concurrency perfectly to prevent double-booking. # 5. National Healthcare & Health Insurance Claims Managing patient databases, handling billing, and processing insurance claims are highly complex, data-heavy tasks. * **The Scale:** The world’s largest public and private health insurance providers process hundreds of millions of patient records and claims using IBM Z. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Healthcare data is heavily regulated (e.g., HIPAA, GDPR). Mainframes isolate workloads securely via Logical Partitions (LPARs), ensuring that highly sensitive personally identifiable information (PII) is structurally separate from other computing processes. # 6. Social Security & Pension Administrations Government welfare, pension, and disability systems manage massive monthly payouts. * **The Scale:** Agencies like the US Social Security Administration (SSA) or equivalents in Europe use mainframes to manage the earnings records of hundreds of millions of citizens. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Every month, these systems run massive "batch processing" jobs—such as calculating and issuing millions of electronic payouts simultaneously. Mainframes are uniquely optimized to handle these gargantuan database reads/writes without degrading online front-end services. # 7. Global Supply Chain & Retail Inventory Control Super-retailers (like Walmart or Target) manage millions of active SKUs across thousands of physical stores and online portals. * **The Scale:** 7 of the top 10 global retailers use mainframes to manage their supply chain logistics. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** During peak shopping holidays (like Black Friday), database queries spike exponentially. Mainframes scale up instantly using capacity-on-demand features, dynamically activating extra processors to handle millions of real-time inventory updates without crashing. # 8. Tax Collection & Customs Clearance National tax agencies (like the US IRS or European tax authorities) rely on mainframes to process annual tax filings and corporate returns. * **The Scale:** Processing hundreds of millions of complex tax returns, calculating refunds, and cross-referencing audit triggers. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** Mainframes excel at "Parallel Sysplex" clustering—a technology that allows multiple physical mainframe systems to act as a single, massive logical system. This enables tax authorities to process millions of complex mathematical filings simultaneously without the system crashing on filing day. # 9. Telecommunications Billing & Call Detail Records (CDRs) Telecom giants handle billions of data points daily—from call connections and text routing to complex data roaming charges. * **The Scale:** 8 of the top 10 global telecommunication providers run their core billing and rating systems on mainframes. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A single telecom provider might generate billions of Call Detail Records (CDRs) every single day. The mainframe's I/O channels are physically separate from the central CPUs, allowing them to ingest and write massive streams of network data to databases without slowing down core application processing. # 10. Automotive & Flight Manufacturing ERPs Large-scale manufacturing relies heavily on complex Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) databases to coordinate millions of physical parts, assembly schedules, and supplier shipments. * **The Scale:** Global aerospace and automotive manufacturers use mainframes to keep assembly lines running smoothly. * **Why it relies on Mainframes:** A modern commercial airplane or luxury car has tens of thousands of parts sourced from thousands of suppliers. If the database coordinating these parts goes down for even one hour, it can halt physical assembly lines, costing millions. Mainframes offer "fault-tolerant" hardware design, allowing IT teams to replace failing processors, memory, and power supplies while the computer is fully running.

Viking999

Dr. Sucky Burry.  Meh. Why would demand plummet if some AI companies go bankrupt.  There will simply be winners and losers.  That doesn't mean less demand. Do we use fewer computers because Microsoft won the OS battle?

RuleSafe6767

Sys admins who normally licensed Z/OS to run old software used to pay in the low single digit $M, now used chatgpt to realize they can use Docker + QEMU s390 to emulate the hardware stack on premises or on cloud servers for no software licensing costs. So yeah, in a round about way, chatgpt is opening eyes for people willing to investigate how to save money.

Gordian1979

I had success increasing the swap file size so I could run a 17Gig LLM on a system with 16Gig....gemma4 from memory, it was surprisingly good considering!! The thing to remember here is that if the OS is installed on an nvme drive, then this is on the PCI express lane and not on storage, so the access is many magnitudes faster being directly on the CPU channels. What you can't overcome is the hallucination of these smaller models the model needs to be in the vicinity of 31B parameter. 8Q to get those "reliable" results! This means.....more RAM....not heaps, but more!

BaxBaxPop

First off: "they're failures of the computer correctly interpreting the sensed data" yeah man that's how systems work. They take in information, they process it, and make decisions based on that data. Whether it was the sensors failing or the interpretation of the sensors failing, the system still failed to drive safely. >Congrats! You get it. Now ask yourself why LiDAR would help if almost all of Tesla's remaining shortcomings are decision-making, not sensing or interpreting. At Level 4, the system operator is liable for accidents and injuries, so they take it seriously. Waymo *was* operating on highways earlier this year but [rolled it back](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2026-05-22/waymo-suspends-all-freeway-rides-over-safety) just two months ago because they weren't confident in their system's abilities. But sure, compare it to the Tesla robotaxi that exists in just one market with ideal weather conditions yet no one's used yet. Problem solved! Or... maybe not, [given the number of accidents they've been unable to avoid in such a short time operating](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaFSD/s/gP6ixlqgnw) > Tesla FSD is achieving millions of highway miles every single day. LIDAR succeeds in seeing obstacles in a far better range of conditions than the human or camera system can. Sun [glare or atmospheric conditions like fog degrade FSD performance](https://www.cnbc.com/2026/03/19/tesla-nhtsa-full-self-driving-fsd-reduced-visibility.html), etc. all can seriously limit the image quality and downstream image recognition quality of a camera-only system; the same thing that keeps Subarus from following lane lines in the snow is what makes camera-only ADAS fail in bright/rainy/dusty conditions. If they already cheaped out on lidar, I can't imagine Tesla splurged on getting automotive grade cameras that aren't susceptible to the same issues as ever other side, lane watch, or backup camera on the market, if those even exist. > Tesla's cameras can see everything a human driver can see and more. And when they run into situations where environmental conditions limit that sight (sun glare, fog, extreme rain or whiteout conditions) Tesla puts on its hazards and pulls over and stops driving. Just like a human! Do you really want cars flying down the highway in whiteout conditions?! Would you want to stop every human driver from ever stepping foot on the road because they can't drive through thick fog. LiDAR is only needed for cases where we don't need to be driving anyway, unless we're expecting Tesla's to be operating as ambulances or some other emergency vehicle. On the other hand, for conditions humans expect driving to be possible, Tesla's system is more than adequate. It's super-human, literally. As for other system failures.... Saying "only show me failures from the latest software version" is like only counting drunk driving if the driver's beer was canned in the last year; it's irrelevant. Likewise, I'm sure you will say some of these are autosteer, some are Autopilot, some are FSD; again, that doesn't matter, because as multiple lawsuits have said, Tesla intentionally muddles the differentiation and oversells its cars' capabilities, as this quote puts it well: "Along with former transportation officials and other experts, they say the company’s marketing of Autopilot exaggerates its capabilities, creating a false sense of complacency that can lead to deadly crashes. That argument is echoed in several Autopilot-related cases, where plaintiffs say they believed Tesla’s claims that Autopilot was 'safer than a human-operated vehicle.'" To play your game, though, here's an FSD crash from [just two weeks ago, with mention of other similar cases](https://electrek.co/2026/06/23/tesla-fsd-katy-crash-driver-pedal/) includes this line "...the jury concluded Tesla shared responsibility because its marketing and weak, steering-torque-based driver monitoring fostered a false sense of what the car could do" Now to other failures: Firstly, [there's a freaking Wikipedia article about just that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashes), [One where the car didn't detect a tractor trailer and decapitated itself](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/) and [Washington Post's analysis of 700+ Tesla crashes ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-autopilot-crashes-elon-musk/). Enough crashes happen due to system capabilities/user expectation mismatch that [it led to government probe ](https://www.usatoday.com/story/cars/news/2026/03/20/tesla-full-self-drive-probe-expanded/89232407007/). Even Tesla bros have issues with relying on camera detection misidentifying [signs as speed limits](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaFSD/s/a5OS7w0KRd) and [suddenly](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/12-3-misreading-speed-limit-signs.324387/) causing the car [to brake hard on highways](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/s/Iwxofl5OBC). People have even tricked the cars to stopping with [fake signage](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/vMCd5WvWO2). > Yes, exactly. None of those are FSD or what Robotaxi uses. Might as well ground all airplanes because of the crash rate of hangliders. Or, if you want an analogy to previous versions, the crash rate of the Wright Brothers planes. Do you want to ground all air transportation because once upon a time previous planes crashed all the time. Again, we're discussing the most recent version of FSD. I await examples.

kurai-tsuki

First off: "they're failures of the computer correctly interpreting the sensed data" yeah man that's how systems work. They take in information, they process it, and make decisions based on that data. Whether it was the sensors failing or the interpretation of the sensors failing, the system still failed to drive safely. At Level 4, the system operator is liable for accidents and injuries, so they take it seriously. Waymo *was* operating on highways earlier this year but [rolled it back](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2026-05-22/waymo-suspends-all-freeway-rides-over-safety) just two months ago because they weren't confident in their system's abilities. But sure, compare it to the Tesla robotaxi that exists in just one market with ideal weather conditions yet no one's used yet. Problem solved! Or... maybe not, [given the number of accidents they've been unable to avoid in such a short time operating](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaFSD/s/gP6ixlqgnw) LIDAR succeeds in seeing obstacles in a far better range of conditions than the human or camera system can. Sun [glare or atmospheric conditions like fog degrade FSD performance](https://www.cnbc.com/2026/03/19/tesla-nhtsa-full-self-driving-fsd-reduced-visibility.html), etc. all can seriously limit the image quality and downstream image recognition quality of a camera-only system; the same thing that keeps Subarus from following lane lines in the snow is what makes camera-only ADAS fail in bright/rainy/dusty conditions. If they already cheaped out on lidar, I can't imagine Tesla splurged on getting automotive grade cameras that aren't susceptible to the same issues as ever other side, lane watch, or backup camera on the market, if those even exist. As for other system failures.... Saying "only show me failures from the latest software version" is like only counting drunk driving if the driver's beer was canned in the last year; it's irrelevant. Likewise, I'm sure you will say some of these are autosteer, some are Autopilot, some are FSD; again, that doesn't matter, because as multiple lawsuits have said, Tesla intentionally muddles the differentiation and oversells its cars' capabilities, as this quote puts it well: "Along with former transportation officials and other experts, they say the company’s marketing of Autopilot exaggerates its capabilities, creating a false sense of complacency that can lead to deadly crashes. That argument is echoed in several Autopilot-related cases, where plaintiffs say they believed Tesla’s claims that Autopilot was 'safer than a human-operated vehicle.'" To play your game, though, here's an FSD crash from [just two weeks ago, with mention of other similar cases](https://electrek.co/2026/06/23/tesla-fsd-katy-crash-driver-pedal/) includes this line "...the jury concluded Tesla shared responsibility because its marketing and weak, steering-torque-based driver monitoring fostered a false sense of what the car could do" Now to other failures: Firstly, [there's a freaking Wikipedia article about just that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashes), [One where the car didn't detect a tractor trailer and decapitated itself](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/) and [Washington Post's analysis of 700+ Tesla crashes ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-autopilot-crashes-elon-musk/). Enough crashes happen due to system capabilities/user expectation mismatch that [it led to government probe ](https://www.usatoday.com/story/cars/news/2026/03/20/tesla-full-self-drive-probe-expanded/89232407007/). Even Tesla bros have issues with relying on camera detection misidentifying [signs as speed limits](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaFSD/s/a5OS7w0KRd) and [suddenly](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/12-3-misreading-speed-limit-signs.324387/) causing the car [to brake hard on highways](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/s/Iwxofl5OBC). People have even tricked the cars to stopping with [fake signage](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/s/vMCd5WvWO2).

abssynth

So if you could only bet on one company between BB and NOK for physical AI, who would you bet on? BB for the safety OS or NOK for the network? I haven’t done much DD but I’m leaning towards Nokia. Both beaten down mobile companies with similar share price, but Nokia is a much bigger company by market cap.

PhotonicsIsFried

Heard they are working on a new OS called windows 95

northrnsouls-

From what I've read it's going to be in a lot of robotic and physical AI builds as well. Like the Japan robot development project, things like that. no expert but seems like all the experts want this OS in their stuff

mwdeuce

lol, yup, not just their infrastructure but all the way down to their actual workstations. Microsoft's days are numbered, they've made too many crippling decisions re: OS design and they're in way too deep to wind those back. A lot of people are stepping away from Windows and with the advent of AI as a troubleshooting/reference/validation/everything tool, moving to Linux has never been easier.

National_Double6261

I love how your counter argument to my anecdotal statement is an anecdotal statement. "StatCounter recorded Linux at 2.99% of global desktop OS share in April 2026, with Windows at 66.6% and macOS at 7.34%." Pretty sizable market share huh

National_Double6261

The vast majority of corporate America is built on Microsoft products, retard. When was the last time you've heard of any established company running an OS like Linux 💀

Spac55

Still 90% corporate world use Window OS, from $MSFT. Only 10% Mac-OS from $AAPL Users use PC or cloud from MSFT to run any AI. Consumers not connected to datacenter by Air.

brucekeller

I need to start answering those native-Windows OS pop-ups that ask me how I'm liking it. I'll answer them with 1 star and say it's because they went ahead and added pop-ups at the OS level.

xbitxfatxstonkx

SPCX is fine. It's like someone creating a new operating system and you say the Mac OS is over

FlipFlopHiker

People thought the same when Linux desktops came out 20 years ago... especially Ubuntu. I don't know anyone who is actually using it as their main OS to this day. I remember trying it back then... but I ended up back on Windows. There just wasn't the amount of apps developed to run on it... especially in an enterprise environment.

_freckles__

You thought a company that has no lead in AI race, its copilot is trash and not used, its OS is becoming shitty, its game division has failed and people are actively going away from the company and thought it is good? True regard, welcome to the wendy dumpster

Inevitable_Zebra_0

It's already happened. Xbox and Windows together are such a small part of the whole revenue structure (\~15%) that nobody considers MSFT as an OS company anymore. Well, investors don't. Regular folks may still associate it with Windows, since that's what they interact with daily, not with backend systems like Azure and servers and stuff.

Unique_Statement7811

Xerox licensed their design to Jobs. He paid for their concept prototype and then built his OS off of it. He didn’t steal it, they sold it to him. Now Gates? Yes, he stole windows after playing with and Apple IIe:

Dude_HaHa

They're spend their way to cuckoldry. The OS models are so much better.

OneCitron2432

Both bill gates ans steve joba stole whole OS from xerox Stealing from a theif is a robinhood thing

coolelel

To be clear, it's not free, it's bundled. They dominate by revenue as well. It's still quite expensive as an e5 license isn't the cheapest. It's just bundled in. https://www.crn.com/news/software/2025/security-execs-microsoft-s-position-as-os-security-software-provider-looms-over-msp-landscape "Microsoft’s market share for Microsoft Defender for worldwide modern endpoint security surged from 25.8 percent in 2023 to 28.6 percent in 2024, followed by CrowdStrike at 16.8 percent, Broadcom at 6 percent, Trellix at 5.9 percent and Sophos at 5 percent, according to an IDC market-share report released in May." https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/blog/2024/08/21/microsoft-again-ranked-number-one-in-modern-endpoint-security-market-share/ Send me your sources please. Don't get it confused for tech quadrants by gartner. Those don't compare market share. In addition, they ranked sophos as the 3rd best stack one year and it's hard to trust them after that lmao (as much as I love Gartner). There are pros and cons to both. And again, I literally use both every single day. I used to be certified in Crowdstrike (they expire unfortunately and I can't be bothered to renew every 3 years) and I'm currently certified in Defender (sc-200). Everything below is an opinion. Crowdstrike is the best stand-alone product from my experience. But defender isn't a stand alone product. It has more capabilities than crowdstrike as a whole because it integrates with the whole tech stack. For example, crowdstrike is limited in a lot of areas like compliance and email security. I use email security as the example because it's a huge focus and one of crowdstrikes biggest gaps. They much less capabilities in that aspect. Telemetry is easier in Defender. You can see everything. It's there from the start and much easier to set up because a lot of entries already exist if you're using Azure ID, office 365 (emails and the such); etc Microsoft compliance purview is much easier to set up when it already has access to all the email, SharePoint, and OneDrive data. Much more difficult to set up for crowdstrike. In addition, Defender is able to detect and patch critical OS vulnerabilities quicker utilizing intune than crowdstrike since they own the OS itself. Crowdstrike has to come in and convert and apply it themselves which takes a bit extra time. That being said, for a small team, defender is known for being a bit hard to manage. Its built to support massive enterprises and everything can get overwhelming. The UI on falcon (crowdstrike) is known to be more intuitive.

chewywookie

When they cooked in a shady app that was built on theft into their OS

Spac55

When $DELL demand spike, means all Dell PC runs using Windows OS from $MSFT, means big revenue for $MSFT on coming earnings spike Either PC, Cloud, datacenter hardware of all Dell runs using Operating system (OS) from $MSFT $MSFT print big earnings in few week

Spac55

When $DELL demand spike, means all Dell PC runs using Windows OS from $MSFT, means big revenue for $MSFT on coming earnings spike

Valnar

> What does OpenAI know about hardware manufacturing or smartphone OS software? Clearly all they need to do is use their AI! /s

Spajk

What does OpenAI know about hardware manufacturing or smartphone OS software? Sounds to me like they will just slap their assistant and logo on some random Android phone. Don't see it succeeding - if people aren't willing to change their web browser to use your AI, I doubt they will be willing to change their phone ecosystem

mashem

Microsoft's AI focus is much different than Google's. Microsoft owns the Enterprise world and have been increasingly locking them in, even more than they have over the last 20 years. Google may have exposure to more data, but Microsoft has exposure to insanely more valuable data, imo. From Enterprise to smaller business, from governement to education. They have recently engrained AI into basically every single product/tool. Teams meeting recaps, asking questions what the meeting has decided on during the meeting, transcription, etc. Also every single other user-facing app, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneDrive, Sharepoint... Also within the OS and browser in Windows and Edge. Also within the admin/infrastructure side in Azure, Entra, InTune, Power Platform, Purview. As a Microsoft-based dev/admin I basically fucking hate it and don't understand it. As a shareholder, I totally get it and want more. So torn, but I like ot invest in what I know.

sangy1986

Srxh 1) 60 million asset value puts nav at 3 dollars 2) dividend accounced (one time) 3) 50% or upto 20 million shares buyback announced. All above in the last 2 days. OS 21.6 million Float approx 12 to 14 million

Hug_LesBosons

Google est le seul qui surf sir les bulles. Quelles sont les domaines qui vont bientôt exploser ?  L'informatique quantique : Google et Microsoft y sont. La fusion nucléaire : Google y sont en partie. L'ia (phase 2) : Google y sont plus que les autres. Regarde toutes les derniers avancées technologiques, google sont dans plus de la moitié. Ils couvrent tous les domaines des autres et des domaines en plus. L'ia à été créée par google (transformer). La recherche en ligne a été amélioré par google. L'OS Le plus utilisé a été créé par google. Google font des smartphones et des ordinateurs. Les voitures autonomes les plus avancées sont celles de waymo donc... de google. Les plateformes de vidéos ont toutes copié... YouTube. ... En gros, google ont tout lancé. Je suis persuadé que google essayent de trouver les prochains secteurs qui vont exploser et essayent de s'y établir une position avant. Google 10 fois plus de recehrches que les autres. Google lab, google X (the moonshot factory, ils vont des recherches scientifiques, ils ont créé waymo, ils voulaient aussi creer un anneau de cuivre géant autour de l'Arctique pour utiliser le champ magnétique terrestre pour creer de l'électricité. Ils ont abandonnés faute de raison géopolitiques.).

happycrabeatsthefish

It's also the worst OS you could ever own

DrewPBahlz7992

have you ever used any of Microslop's products? * their operating systems suck now. it's unstable AI slop. the OS is LOADED with bloatware / spyware. you have 0 privacy. * their gaming division sucks now. they have 0 customer support; fired all the game masters and replaced them with shitty, slow AIs (which pretend to be humans and thus suck even more). whenever their CEOs want a quick buck this quarter they fire people by the thousands. they're unable to retain real talent. * their corporate products suck. Teams is the slowest, most bloated piece of shit chat client i've ever seen. i've never met anyone who likes teams.

AmericanScream

But their OS is so good....

Big_Red_Dogs

Google gonna release its own PC OS and put the final coffin nail in msft.

buppiejc

This argument is flawed. Objectively, Linux (Open Source)is a better OS than Windows (Enterprise).

GeX_64_

It’s Sonys largest division generating more revenue than any other part. PC OS is getting more console like and user friendly. You gotta pay extra to play online. Nobody who figures out a PC is going back to PlayStation. Even PC gamers who have the funds for a PlayStation for exclusive titles are just dropping any interests because they aren’t missing out on much. Sony is killing their fanbase and looking to milk the dumbest/laziest consumers. Let’s see how this plays out.

Potential_Salt_5780

I stopped at 1. Apple is not just a hardware company. Their OS is what makes their devices so good. Services make up 25% of their revenue. They absolutely deserve a 30 PE.

dogfoodengineer

The next OS is built around an ai agent, it might be the beginning of the end for them.

paloaltothrowaway

Where does the profit lie? It’s with the brand and with the quality of the user experience. Apple also has a solid ecosystem of Apple products working well togther. Samsung software is just not as good. It also doesn’t have an operating system on a computer. Samsung‘s phone OS is an android fork. Until very recently, memory chip is a commodity. Display panels are also commoditized. Banking and financial services are not part of Samsung electronics. Even if they are, banks outside the US are not worth that much - $100bn max. Battery? maybe worth $100bn max. LG energy solution is worth around $80bn. the world leader is CATL which is worth $200bn.

Sredikk_Ambane

INBS 1:10 in December 2025. 9 million went to 900K OS SP went from 4.1 to 17 dollars in January 2026 but now even lower that 4.1 -> @ 2.2 $

sangy1986

SPRB 1:75 in August 25. 43 million went to 563k OS SP went from 8 to 170 dollars in october 2025 on news of FDA breakthrough therapy designation.

imdaviddunn

Amazed at how many people think Waymo revenue ends at rides. They have the best software, and they are a software company. Their long game is selling OS to OEMs and like ads along with it.

english_fool

Shitty ceo, shitty software (including OS), shitty cloud.

Cpinkman14

MC is a joke now. Like you said, is at least 15% of OS in cars + possible physical AI. For me, it should be at 50B, not 5-10B. 10x bagger possible

Candid_Payment_4094

There’s a saying that no enteprise IT manager ever got fired for shilling for MSFT. A lot of Office 365 tools are slowly becoming obsolete. Why even need Excel when a future Mythos model is so good at writing Python to do all the Excel tasks for you (in a more structured automated way). Anything simple can just use Google Sheets. Startups or scale ups are not using Microsoft at all anymore (except for the OS itself if the company cannot pay for MacBooks). Google Workspace is where it’s at

Kalashooter888

nahh man. TSLA is the gold standard, Chinese EVs have better OS than BB. Their moat can be easily crushed if TSLA willing to collaborate with legacy auto makers

ChungusSpliffs

They are in the automotive & robotics software biz. Their OS is basically the gold standard for what modern cars run. They also recently announced a partnership with nvidia.

Cpinkman14

Actual MC is a joke. Looking for $100 at least. Its gonna be the OS of physical AI soon

GorgeousRamsay

QNX is just an OS for embedded systems. Like a linux distro, but nothing special Source: I worked med tech for several years, we used it in our devices. It was mid at best

Pipepoi

For cost sensitive or lower risk projects, FreeRTOS/Zephyr or embedded Linux combos are indeed practical and cheap. But for automotive grade safety and human collaborative robots in unstructured environments, or regulated deployments, QNX's strengths can justify the investment. So depending on new regulations and the ones that are still going through amendments. The QNX OS already certificatied globally in a highly critical environment, so theory if you want to develop your robotics platform risk free of regulation change you would go with something guaranteed to increase your adressable market.

Srini_ko

QNX architecture is designed for extreme fail safe applications such as Automobiles on Roads. QNX uses micro kernel + Drivers running in User space + Hypervisor to run regular Linux(for infotainment) and it is an over kill to most physical AI applications. Standard Linux has standard kernel with many drivers included in it any driver can crash the OS. Most Physical AI applications such as Drones, Agri tech robots, Industrial Robots can run on open source RTOSs such as FreeRTOS, Zephyr etc, without the cost of QNX

Ok_Departure_4090

Can you point me to where IDMC mentions "higher survival of BAT"? I want the specific page or link if possible Because IDMC discussed the pooled OS and not specifically BAT or GPS arm

enas333

Windows as a consumer OS hasn't really mattered to MS for a long time

I_Am_Robotic

So it’s creating an OS? This sounds like hype. What exactly are they developing? Why is it so nebulous if it’s so amazing. I’m genuinely curious.

Liminal_Aspect

I think age verification will actually push folks to linux. That's how I'm feeling. Take away their porn and they'll go to the trouble of learning to install an OS.

baconcheeseburgarian

> Really? A link to a blog post by a company selling AI optimisation? It doesn't even include a source to the claim that "Apple confirmed" a decline in Google search volume within the iOS ecosystem. The FAQ only mentioned share of overall search going to Google search specifically has declined below 90% of market share when including AI (again unsourced), not search as a vertical.eanwhile you can see Alphabets own investor presentations showing that search has continued to grow 19% YoY (source). Yes, according to your source search and, ad revenues are 70% of their total revenue. They keep increasing ad rates so obviously their revenues should follow. I think I might have said that it was the majority of their revenue, right? > People still are going to their primary method of search, which is Google with 90.39% of the global search market (source). I don't disagree with this, I think it underlines the prior point. > "WhErE iS iT sHoWiNg In ReVeNuE". Perhaps look at the investor packages that are public, FFS. This is a investment sub SMH. Their 10-K is in the public domain. Google Search and related services (ads) are down from 57% of revenues in 2021 Q1 to 55%, YouTube ads are down from 11% to 9%. Cloud is up from 7% to 16%. The segments that you claim are decimated are still growing 19% YoY and declining as a share of overall company revenue (source), which says a lot about that narrative. Again, the majority of that revenue coming from search and ad delivery. Cloud being up is great but it's still only 16% of their business and 14% of total market share. > Google in hardware is Radio Shack and they don't really sell? Let's focus on the consumer hardware verticals. In the smartphone space Google Pixel has been growing 25% YoY (source) and had already been the 4th largest phone brand in the US market Q2 of last year with over 800k models shipped per quarter (source). In the smart watch segment they own 15% of the global market share (source) and 19% of the global smart home sector (source). Oh man, you really got me now that Google Pixel has 3% market share in the US. Woot! They're #4!! So 3 out of 100 people have a Google Pixel. Fucking impressive. Sure it's growth. I'll give ya that with a side of perspective. Oh, smart watch sales are really going to be where Google cuts its teeth too and isnt just making a me too product to get more data from users. > Microsoft does not collect money from Google for Android. This is a misnomer of the so called "Android tax". Microsoft did not sue Google for the so called "patent violations" on the open source technology that forms the base of Android OS, those royalties were paid by specific manufacturers using said technology directly to Microsoft. That is also a point of the past since Microsoft has a license deal with OIN now, putting an end to that 2B in negotiated payments that came from agreements which were a means for manufacturers to avoid costlier lawsuits during Microsoft's FOSS phase (source). Google is estimated to have made 20× that from Android, not even getting into the play store revenue. Technically this is correct. The manufacturers that put Android on the phones have to pay instead. Microsoft is still technically making more money per install of Android than Google is. Play store revenue is anemic based on the size of their market share. Again my point was Google has this enormous market share advantage in mobile OS's but cant seem to monetize their services at a fraction of the rate Apple has. That's been a long term problem. > Android OS does not drive revenues? I guess that includes the search and ads integrated into Android too right? LMAO. Add on play store integrated adverts and app based adverts and it ties back into that search and ad revenue. Now you're starting to get it in a strange way. Android is really best serving Google in delivering ad and search revenue. You can run these AI clients on Android too and as more users onboard the more Googles ad and search business can be under threat. 70% of their revenue is derived from ad and search businesses. They cannot afford to lose this AI race and still be the same company. I say this as a 20 year shareholder that can see they are not in front of this race and they are paying a $20B fee every year to bide themselves some time before 70% of their business comes under threat.

JG98

Really? A link to a blog post by a company selling AI optimisation? It doesn't even include a source to the claim that "Apple confirmed" a decline in Google search volume within the iOS ecosystem. The FAQ only mentioned share of overall search going to Google search specifically has declined below 90% of market share when including AI (again unsourced), not search as a vertical.eanwhile you can see Alphabets own investor presentations showing that search has continued to grow 19% YoY ([source](https://www.tradingview.com/news/zacks:26ba6a9c2094b:0-alphabet-benefits-from-rising-advertising-revenues-more-upside-ahead/)). People still are going to their primary method of search, which is Google with 90.39% of the global search market ([source](https://gs.statcounter.com/search-engine-market-share)). "WhErE iS iT sHoWiNg In ReVeNuE". Perhaps look at the investor packages that are public, FFS. This is a investment sub SMH. Their 10-K is in the public domain. Google Search and related services (ads) are down from 57% of revenues in 2021 Q1 to 55%, YouTube ads are down from 11% to 9%. Cloud is up from 7% to 16%. The segments that you claim are decimated are still growing 19% YoY and declining as a share of overall company revenue ([source](https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/goog/metrics/revenue-by-segment/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)), which says a lot about that narrative. Google in hardware is Radio Shack and they don't really sell? Let's focus on the consumer hardware verticals. In the smartphone space Google Pixel has been growing 25% YoY ([source](https://counterpointresearch.com/en/insights/global-smartphone-shipments-grew-2-percent-YoY-in-2025)) and had already been the 4th largest phone brand in the US market Q2 of last year with over 800k models shipped per quarter ([source](https://9to5google.com/2025/07/28/google-pixel-us-market-share-q2-2025/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)). In the smart watch segment they own 15% of the global market share ([source](https://dataintelo.com/report/global-wearable-communicator-market?utm_source=chatgpt.com)) and 19% of the global smart home sector ([source](https://researchintelo.com/report/ai-native-smart-home-ecosystem-market?utm_source=chatgpt.com)). Microsoft does not collect money from Google for Android. This is a misnomer of the so called "Android tax". Microsoft did not sue Google for the so called "patent violations" on the open source technology that forms the base of Android OS, those royalties were paid by specific manufacturers using said technology directly to Microsoft. That is also a point of the past since Microsoft has a license deal with OIN now, putting an end to that 2B in negotiated payments that came from agreements which were a means for manufacturers to avoid costlier lawsuits during Microsoft's FOSS phase ([source](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-may-relinquishing-billions-android-patent-royalties-141047213.html)). Google is estimated to have made 20× that from Android, not even getting into the play store revenue. Android OS does not drive revenues? I guess that includes the search and ads integrated into Android too right? LMAO. Add on play store integrated adverts and app based adverts and it ties back into that search and ad revenue. If you are going to make this argument then make it simple. Give me a source to showcase that search and search ad revenue is declining, not just as a market share but also outright. Not as a share of their revenue either, just an overall decline. Refute the double digits growth that the quarterly reports and investor presentations have consistently shown for the past 5 years while this same AI narrative was running.

lucifer_alucard

Amazon built Vega OS because they wanted something better than android at running on cheap hardware What's stopping the big boys from releasing something better than QNX if it's an explosive AI growth area?

baconcheeseburgarian

https://www.hollinden.com/point-of-view/googles-falling-search-share-the-rise-of-ai-search Search rates are falling. Market share is falling. People arent going out of their way to use Google if their AI is giving them what they want. Google may be in "so many verticals that it is hilarious" but where is it showing up in their revenue? The majority of their revenue, the shit keeping the company afloat, is search and ads. Google cant seem to get people to pay much for anything else. Google is in hardware like Radio Shack is in hardware. They have some products. They arent really selling. But sometimes you see them in the wild and you exclaim "Oh wow, I dont think Ive ever seen that before." Google isnt known for their hardware. Its not driving their bottom line. They keep attempting to make stuff but its not finding success in the market like many of their paid services. Sure, 4 billion phones are using Android but Apple still generates the majority of revenue in mobile and Google cant seem to monetize on it despite nearly 2 decades of having an overwhelming share of mobile OS. Google pays more money to Microsoft in licensing for every Android installation than they make themselves. Android just doesnt drive much direct revenue for them and for some reason they cant leverage paid services to Android users at even a fraction of the rate Apple is. Google is an elephant riding a unicycle of search and ad revenue. It's reflected in their quarterly reports. That revenue is what is supporting all these other endeavors.

JG98

>For people that still search through Google, AI is integrated. Yes, it is integrated into Google and Google is still a proprietary eponym for the entire search category. >Lots of people aren't even using Google anymore. They are using whatever model they like to do basic searches. Lot's of people may not be using Google anymore and that still doesn't mean they have had any regression in search. Search is still growing and search integrated AI is also drawing plenty of people back. Even in the AI model space Gemini is one of the leaders and has the financial and cost basis advantages to outlast their biggest competition over the long term, barring some major changes to AI profitability. >Where is Google generating the kind of revenue they need to sustain their valuation and business outside of ad delivery? There is no fallback position for them like there is for Apple or Microsoft. They either win or they end up dying. Search and advertising has been declining as a share of Google revenue dating back to 2018, well before AI search was on the scene. Google, or should I say Alphabet, is in so many verticals that it is hilarious to even try and debate on the basis of one segment that is still experiencing growth anyways. Google is in hardware too, just like Apple and Microsoft. They are making a viable alternative to the Microsoft online enabled ecosystem of software and competing heavily in the budget hardware OS space with Chromebooks. They are outcompeting Apple in hardware in the phone space when you factor in overall OS share and subsequent OS related software space. In the AI space they are increasingly putting their foot forward on the backend with TPU sales. They are also rapidly taking market share from Amazon and Microsoft in the cloud platform space. Then they have many verticals on top of that, including automotive/transport, space, logistics, healthcare and life sciences, internet infrastructure, etc. They also have their own venture capital firms and moonshot factory for innovative technologies.

MuhGinCall

The Android OS core is open source, bro.

MuhGinCall

Paying for LLM is like paying for Linux OS. A trillion dolla market cap for a autocomplete tool, my ass.

gizamo

Customers are absolutely hurt by price increases, especially when it borders on price gouging. Apple will lose a ton of customers the year that the US allows Chinese phones on the market because of their massive pricing gaps. The more Apple diverges from the real costs of hardware and a decent OS, the more impact that will have. That is, unless the US slaps something like a 200-300% tariff on Chinese phones. But, sure, you're welcome to fanboy for Apple all you want. It's ignorant of basic economics, but you do you, mate.

nepoleangambi

https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/inside-nvidia-halos-for-robotics-a-full-stack-functional-safety-system-for-physical-ai/ QNX is also being used as the guardrail OS for AI and it's already stacked with Nvidia's Halos. We are just getting started.

vincentsigmafreeman

QNX competes with: Wind River Green Hills Software Linux Foundation proprietary OEM operating systems It isn’t the only embedded OS.

wrecklord0

I extended my support forever by switching to an OS that doesn't obsolete itself

Unfair_Adeptness_838

It's cheaper than GM. Second biggest provider of cloud solutions, owns tool where half of the world keeps theirs codebases. Has a lot of government contracts and owns OS used by half of the world. Doesn't look that overvalued to me.

VerdantPathfinder

None. We all had root/admin on our laptops no matter what OS at the time. That's changed just recently so no idea what they are doing now. I gave up when they make Macs an option. I needed my commmand line for dev work.