ROC

sbaeidlloan

Ive sold much shorter DTES and stopped doing it because, in the end, those few gaps canceled all the other profits. I've sold maybe 20-30 diff stocks at a time and you always get caught in a few gaps which negates all the other profits. I just thought these ROC numbers looked ridiculously high (and I understand why - no free lunch) but I feel like if you start with 350% ROC, you may enbd the year with 100% ROC (after all the rolls you will have to make) which is more than I can hope for.

clear_cartridge

Selling leaps on a single name carries a ton of gap risk that the margin calc entirely ignores. SNKD could drop 30% overnight on an earnings miss or FDA rejection and that 870 put suddenly becomes in-the-money really fast, blowing way past whatever buying power reduction PM quoted. The ROC looks absurd because the risk of ruin is priced out of the model, tail events are real with individual equities. That said if you run it small and diversify across a handful of uncorrelated names, its not completely insane. I keep position size tiny relative to net liq, avoid biotech, and wont touch anything with a catalyst in the first third of the contracts life.

EmpathyFabrication

The last 8 weeks of (weekly) $ULTY distributions have been 100% ROC. Previously, the longest stretch of time that distributions were 100% ROC was 7 weeks in a row. $2.47 per share in equity has been returned to investors since Aug 6. This ETF has a 1.30% expense ratio. Split-adjusted NAV has fallen from $200 to an approximate $25.50 over 2.5 years.

Me-Regarded

It's all fun and games until you have to play E ROC, then you'll know true pain

AutomaticWill650

Yeah but the ROC on credit spreads is so nice

existing_for_fun

I'm more focused on the distance from the present strike than the spread width. For example, today there was a decent dip after the rate hike announcement. I have a COST put spread that I sold, which expires on Friday. I knew the rate decision was coming and positioned the spread well below the strike at the time I entered the position. This has worked well for me so far for COST which is down around 1% in the last 5 days. I opened my position on COST 21 days out. With an 8.5% ROC (return on capital). I sold this as a $5 spread, but that's as narrow as you can go with COST. However, my primary concern was the distance from strike. I also have a BE spread that I sold at 195/210 which is $15 wide. But it's well out of the money. For that one, I took a 4.6% ROC, which I'm happy with. I know I'm trading premium for lower risk. But again, with BE, my focus was risk management and not spread width.

Sensitive-Exam649

The point of an emergency fund is to have case available for the unexpected big bill. For example you get into an accident and have to stay in the hospital for a week. OR there is a storm and your home gets hit by lightening and your outlets and lights stop working. Or you get into an accident and need a new car. These thing do happen. The emergency fund was never designed to protect you from a market downturn which might last 1 to 10years based on historical data. The 6 months of living expenses is often recommended because anything more than that you would be better off with investing it. But if you invest it select an investment that will resolve your your biggest inviting concern. For example:If you don't want to sell stock in a downturn invest in a dividend fund like QQQI 13% yield. 100K invested in this fund will produce about 1K of income a month without selling any stock. And it is a tax efficient fund.. OR if you want money for a big expense you counld invest in grwoth index fund and selll that if you need money for home repair or cart replacement. ut I didn't just use QQQI. I also have SPYI, KGLD, EMO, UTF, UTG, AND PFF. These together generate 5K of income a month without selling. And they all generate qualified ro ROC dividends which are very tax efficient. And each fund having a different risk level. The lower yielding funds have a history of paying a dividend in the worst market year in living memory (2008) while the others have higher risk but very high yield. And I have 4 years of income FXAIX a S&P 500 index fund. And I have a roth and 401K. Yes it does take years build something like this. but the peace of mind of knowing that no mater what happens I can pay my bills and keep food on the table makes it worth the effort.

I_know_nothing_42

I'll tell you right now. It is better to sell a single naked put vs 10 credit spreads. You are only just magnifying your risks doing credit spreads. There is a reason why most credit spreads pay a higher return vs naked option on a capital required basis. It has more risk in it's structure. You don't need to know the undelaying's to the umpteenth detail like you would for buy and hold. A Lot of those variables can be considered constants while between quarterly earnings. It's the advantage of short term option selling. It's what affords the underlying indifference. Your main risk is market affecting news events, or unscheduled news on the underlying. The big things is not to fall into yield reach traps. Selling in high retail action stocks. The goal is to get paid for the risk your taking on. Take your estimated ROC and compare it to SPY or QQQ for the same delta and time. Look at the underlying risk of similar companies. This will save you pain. Popular high demand stock have lower ROC due to more demand the yield is depressed. Stocks where brokers require higher margin lower your ROC, so walk away. The ROC of the option itself will tell you more about the risk. SPY return 3%, you underlying your looking at is 20%. You have a problem. There is a reason why it is high even if you don't know why.

hymie-the-robot

I am no CEF expert, but I see a couple of things when looking at BCAT on CEFConnect. over the last year or so, NAV has decreased and price has increased. in fact, the fund sold at a discount for four years, crossed into premium territory, and the premium just kept increasing. now a dollar of assets sells for about $1.06. looking at distributions, we see lots of ROC, which is consistent with a decreasing NAV.

Mission-Drawing-870

USD6000 for the course which includes 6-months of coaching and trade alerts. After that, the trade alerts and coaching stops which I think is ok. By month 6, you should have learned their strategy by then. However, the thing that I was very wary of is they DO NOT show performance (annual or monthy). I asked this multiples times and they are adamant on not showing it. They show their 97% win rate, 1.7% ROC but not their performance.

Sensitive-Exam649

Roth and brokerage account have very different rules and can be used in very different ways for different purposes. In my brokerage I have invested in QQQI, SPYI, KGLD, EMO, UTF, UTG, PFF. These provide montlhy dividned that have a tax calsifcation of Qualified or ROC for tax efficiency this portfolio covers all of my livinenexpenses of 5K a month allowed me to retire in my 50s. Now a roth cannot easily be used fro income prior to age 60. So VOO and chill will work. But you might also want to add some QQQI in it so that the dividends will add to your your yearly deposit allowing more than 7.5K a year of cash flowing into the account. The more cash flow into the account the larger it will be when you retire.

W_Edwards_Deming

> This statement is incomplete. Over how long of a period do you have to beat something for a strategy to be successful? Arbitrary. A day trader can achieve success in seconds, a buy & holder may take a lifetime. You seem to prefer 10 years for reasons unknown. I simply looked at my data, saw I had beaten the market and wanted to discuss. This turned out to be the wrong place, for the most part. That said, one guy gave me some very useful advice regarding Earnings yield vs. the 10 year treasury bond. I am grateful to him. A few others were polite and some suggested ETFs, at least a couple of I am looking further into. >ARKK massively outperformed VTI over the single year of 2020 by a MASSIVE margin. Would you say ARKK is a successful investment strategy? Consider that VTI is now trading at 378 while ARKK is now 86. Buy low, sell high. I am not familiar with those but ideally one would have bought ARKK in 2019, sold it near its peak and bought VTI at its lowest and perhaps sell it today to buy ARKK. I keep an eye on the indicators to know what to do and when. >it only lasts a short amount of time before they underperformed Things go up and down but no need for the fatalism and ETF / Mutual fund only fanaticism. >so much research shows that most stock-picking strategies don't work out. Again, you seem to have your mind made up. My results don't matter to you and there isn't much reason for our interaction. >The perception of rudeness must come from some idea that people have to speak to you in a specific way to show deference or respect. This is the internet, no one knows anything about you and doesn't owe you any specific communication preferences that you may be accustomed to. I don't know if you grew up privileged and surrounded by money so people who knew that would bend over and talk to you in the way you're accustomed to, but this is not it. Hilarious. This is a 14yr old account and I grew up without indoor plumbing or electricity. Once upon a time Reddit was a place where in-depth evidence based discussion was the norm, and it still happens. Even in here with some. You seem to be trying that approach but without any open-mindedness about the OP. Instead you are longform telling me your pre-existing deterministic conclusion. No need for me for that, you can tell the next one the same, and likely will. >Go back to some point (preferably 10 years ago) in the past and make virtual stock purchases based on your criteria (it will be a different set of stocks). Then track how those stocks have done over the last 10 years compared to market index trackers. Where am I going to get all the data listed in the OP for a stock 10 years ago? I can get the stock price form 10 years ago but the ROC, PEG and etc? >Why would you say this to someone you know nothing about? Why would you lump an individual with a group? You mean like you suggesting I am a naive & privileged third-grader? You are saying the same thing most of the people in here have said, albeit longform. Are you suggesting I am misunderstanding your deterministic conclusion that ETFs are better and strategies such as are in the OP are a gamble near certain to fail? >back-testable My screen is of a variety of data. Where am I getting that level of detail from 10 years ago? Looking into it myself it appears I'd have to pay for something like Portfolio123? I that your suggestion?

Various_Couple_764

>I am wondering (and have been trying to crunch the math), would a brokerage account make sense to use as a spillover after the Roths are maxed  Yes it makes sense. I am currently living off of dividend income from my taxable brokerage account. it covers all of my living expenses. About 5K a month. I also have a Roth and 401K. i am invested in FAGIX (S&P500 growth index fund) QQI 13% dividend yield, SpYI 11%, KGLD 11%, EMO 8.5%, UTF 7%, UTG 6.2% PFF 6%. FAGIX is basically long term savings which I use basically as long term insurance against big unexpected expenses such has home repair or inflation adjustment for may dividend income. I have a money market find in the account for short term savings. I keep 6 months of cash in this account For all the dividend funds so the cash dividend go into my money market account I spend anything over 6 months of savings I can spend. IF I don't spend all of it I reinvest the excess for more dividned income (this also helps compensate for inflation. Now all of the finds I listed generate qualified dividends or ROC dividend this basically means the about 20% of the income is considered taxable income. This is about 80% discount from the work income tax rate. So it is a tax efficient account. this allowed me to retire about 10 years before I was expecting to. I am not planning to use social security until 70 and at that point it will probably be optional.

Mochila-Mochila

Defo a constraint, and a big undertaking in terms of logistics. But with bases or access to bases in Philippines, ROK, ROC, Japan, the distance issue could be alleviated.

Various_Couple_764

The tax come as you describe it only occurs if you sell SPYI. Dividned are taxed 3 ways. ordinary income were 100% of the income is taxable income. Qualified income were worst case only 20% is taxable income it might be 15% or even zero. ROC dividend which has already been discussed. So if your cost basis reaches zero you are still paying less in taxes than your work inocme . 80% less. But if you sell you are pay taxes on the full value of stock you sold. Which is fortunately still taxed at the long term captial gains rate.

Various_Couple_764

Return of capital concept is in many palace in the tax code often not labeled as Return of Capital. When you sell growth you are only taxed on the gains that occurred after you sold. Why? because a portion the income is return of capital. When you sell stock at a loss it is not taxed. Why? became it is all return of captial. Covered call ETF make money form selling covered call contracts. Now sometimes these contracts result in a loss. Good covered call fund seek to balance losses and returns so that you pay minimal taxes due to the balance of losses and gains. SPYI typically generates 95% ROC with the rest bing qualified dividneds. For a covered call fund like SPYI The return captial is subtracted form the cost basis of your shares. which is similar to how capital gains taxes work. If the cost basis is above zero you owe no taxes. Typically it taxes about 9 years for SPPYI cost basis to reach zero. Once the cost basis reaches zero you dividend are taxed at the long term capital gains tax rate. which means worst case only 20% of the income is considered taxable income which is a 80% discount from your work inimcoem Now many will mention 1256 contracts and 60/40 split of long term and shaort term captial gains. But this only apples to fund management not you the investor1256 is an internal part of how Neos handles covered calls but has no bearing on your taxes. Also not all covered call funds generate return of capital JEPQ and JEPI are popular CC funds. But the dividned is taxed as ordinary income. And others may generate ROC and ordinary income to determine how the income is taxed you need to review December 19A or 8937 forms which willl provide tax information. Also be away of funds like yield max that hav more losses than gains. This results in destructive ROC and NAV erosion. generally covered call fund with yields avboe 15% have NAV erosion but but funds with yields below 15% generally Have NAV growth which is good. All Neos funds like SPYI are good without NAV erosion.

db_deuce

1). The monthly income you are getting now will basically be untaxed as they achieved 97% ROC and hence their fees are worth it. 2) Your basis in the stock adjust down accordingly creating a deferred tax time bomb when you have to sell them. After 7 years, the basis is likely 0. Everything from here on out will be long term gains 3) for the 7 year window (QQQI) and 10 for SPYI, it is a chance to cutover from a tax rate say 55% for me into 20% down the road when I no longer plan to work. 4) It's not really ideal for someone in their 20's and 30's kicking the can 7-10 year out and create a bigger tax problem, but perfect for people that plans to work a few more years and kick the can to early retirement (before SS or forced distribution of other deferred comes in. You can't overdo it as income in 2031 even when not working, have SS or forced distribution can still create a problem. Something around 50K in annual income is manageable for tax. 5) I plan to donate them once the basis is 0 to take the tax deductions if it makes sense and contribute to society

CornerOne238

ELI5: constructive retirn of capital is when fund has capital appreciation but instead of cashing out it pays it out to investors from reserves. The irs accounts for this by lowering your cost basis. So: capital appreciation in the fund -> constructive ROC -> capital gains in your shares by lowering cost basis.

Callabria

This is definitely tempting. I do think SPYI classifies a large part of the yield as ROC, which does not count towards taxable income which could lower MAGI below the threshold.

Various_Couple_764

You have done very well saving but you are imbalanced with all growth and no income. What I would do is sell the 100k and reinvest the money in a high dividned fund, QQQI for example. QQQI has a yield of 13%. So that 100K would generate 13K of income per year and it is a very tax efficient fund so you won't pay a lot in taxes. 600K in high yield funds with a yield of 10% would generate 60K a year of income. So you may watt to start slowly shiting your portfolio away from growth in the taxable account. You could use the money from this fund to pay down your home loan or if needed use the money to cover other expenses. And if you slowly sell of and reinvest the money in the brokerage account in to dividends. you could buildup secondary income sufficient to cover muchof your living expenses. giving you more financial security. In my taxable I have QQQI 13%, SPYI 11%, KGLD 11% EMO 8.5% UTF 7%, utg 6.2% , and PFF 6%. The lower yielding funds are selected based on nong term dividend stability. The other are covered call funds with no NAV erosion. All are tax effect producing mainly qualified or ROC dividends to minimize taxes. For me this protfolio generates 5k a month. Enough to cover all of my living expense.

vandalizethethief

No one does, unless it’s over a very short timeframe but you came within 2% with less beta and concentration. I have no idea what that Dow Jones total stock index is. Is it like VTI? Also you’ll never beat an index bc you have to pay fees on your ETFs. I’m just trying to beat the tax man. I bought a tax free muni etf from Schwab in my SoFi investing account bc I get an extra 1% in taxable accounts. 4% tax free sounds pathetic but it sure beats corporate bonds that are down & pay like 5%. I also park my cash in box spreads (index only) or just use CBOX ETF. Loaning or borrowing money from the options market will beat most personal loans and you can’t “guhhh” on index options. Also CAIE & CAGE are two laddered autocallable ETFs that outperform but just came into existence but the index they track has been around for a while. Again, these are all about getting exposure to the S&P w/ deferred taxes. All dividends paid by CAIE are treated as ROC (currently \~14.5% annually and CAGE is a bit riskier bc it has a 1.3 beta to SPX so it leverages its coupons & if they fall below a certain threshold they harvest the dividends & then reinvest. All dividends are reinvested & it’s at 28.3% yield annually. Considering I bought my shares day 1 for $25/share back in April & they are trading at \~$30 today that’s already 18%. I hedge both for black swan events with way OTM VIX calls. Currently using 45 and 50 strike calls worth a nickel. Learned that from the Covid Vix trader who would come through & hedge a massive portfolio with 50 strike nickel calls. He apparently still was down but a lot better off than other strategies that failed or blew up during that time. He or someone else is still doing it. Buying 100k VIX calls for September (the worst month historically) for a nickel each. The market is all over the place but breadth is widening so until bonds, gold, stocks and crypto all start going up at once I’m not too worried & will buy my nickel VIX calls especially since VIX and VVIX have been extremely cheap recently.

Various_Couple_764

Note not all dividneds are taxed as ordinary income. Some dividneds are taxed at the the lower tax long term capital gains rate or ROC which is even a bit lower. ROC dividend are even tax free for a period of time (often years) I am invested in QQQI 13% yield, SPYI 11%, KGLD 11%, EMO 8.5%, UTF 7%, UTG 6.2%. QQQI is tax free for 7 years then is taxed at the LTCG rate. SPYI and KGLD are tax free for 9 years and then is taxed at the LTCG rate. The remixing funds on the list are only taxed at the LTCG rate. But they have a much more stable dividend income. I built up all of these funds in a taxable account and I have growth in retirment accounts. Today it covers all of my living expenses in my 50s So I can take a 1 yer trip at any time.

Pristine-Pirate-8833

Am I the only one keeping an eye on $ROC? The surveillance state is coming. Might as well get rich off of it.

National_Garden6893

AI will definitely not go away, however, this guy here is skipping competition completely in his thesis. what happens when AI hits a monetization wall and the price gets so low that investors start panicking because the ROC is not returning what is expected? and there are better options out there to get more bang for your buck? His also acting like there is going to be only one AI company monetizing this thing.

Various_Couple_764

Max out your 401k invest in goth and dividends. fill SGOOV to 24K Then start investing in dividned fund GPIX 8% yield, EMO 8/5%, and UTF7% and NAC 7%. Uzs the dividends to keep SGOV full. otherwise reinvest all dividends The purpose of the dividned is to eventually replace your cash emergency fund with passive income of 30K or more a year. All of these funds Pay montly and they genrate qualified or ROC dividneds which means you pay significantly less in taxes tha you do . NAC is CA muni fund with is state tax free to CA residents. If you do well with your dividned funds it could allow you to retire well before age 60. Dividends could also be form of unemployment insurance if you lose your job.

EmbarrassedPart1256

I'm definitely holding for the long term, as I've got a pretty privileged cost basis ($51.01) as I did a lump sum buy back when I was switching over to a dividend/income approach. It's been pretty stable for as long as I've held it & produced solid cash flow. Because of the ROC, most of it is tax-deferred until your cost basis gets to $0 & then it's taxed as long-term capital gains. I can't complain with the NEOS funds so far; they're newer but they seem to be on the ball in terms of protecting your capital. I'm pretty underwater on $MLPI but I see that thing as being insanely illiquid, to the point where I've actually had my shares loaned out for a period of about a week. In a correction/recession, I'm pretty sure people will flock to something like $MLPI; I've also seen it mentioned as a solid inflation hedge because of the way these MLPs' contracts are structured. The only other NEOS ETF I hold is a small position in $NIHI but it's just a small position as an income boost/stabilizer; I don't necessarily like that it's a "fun of funds" because of the double expense ratios, but I just now realized that $IWMI is too. I guess if they can preserve my capital & distribute solid cash, the expense ratios shouldn't matter too much. My approach is being as tax-efficient as possible in this portfolio; Google AI recently referred to it as a "pseudo-Roth" which I like as well. I don't like the idea of locking away a large portion of my capital for \~30 years, when the retirement age (60) is definitely *not* the middle of your life. I'm happy to talk more if you ever want to DM me! I can't say I'm an expert but I've spent a lot of time trying to learn about this stuff recently. My focus has been defensively positioning myself for the end of the world, even as things continue to rise 🤣 income as been my primary focus & now I'm focused on layering in growth (again, defensively, leaning international). The dividends sub has a wealth of information as well.

EmbarrassedPart1256

It's not a penny but if you want midstream energy exposure, **$MLPI** checks off a lot of boxes & covers their bases. It gives you exposure to several midstream energy companies, produces a \~13.5-14% monthly yield, much of that classified as Return of Capital (ROC), & it handles the complex taxes for you, giving you a regular 1099 instead of a K-1 🤙

Various_Couple_764

age recomendations are based on the idea that : * Everyone is investing retimrent . * Everyone is aiming for maximum total returns. * Everyone is working and has no need for extra income. * Everyone has the same risk tolerance. These assumptions don't apply to all people, So ther is no-one size rule that works for everyone. The best way to look at this is based on the a count type. If you are using Roth IRA were there are no taxes and you cannot withdrawal the money intuit age 60. These account are great for dividned and gowth at any age if you don't need access to the funds until retirment. 401K and and traditional all IRA also fit in this category. Taxable account can be used for any investments but you need to keep track of taxes. Taxable account are ideal for dividend funds that have high yields and generate ROC or qualified dividends that are taxed at lower rates than interest and work income. I personally have QQQI 13% yeild, and SPYI 11% , EMO 9%, UTF 8% , UTG 6.4% and PFF 6.% in my taxable account. The dividends are all from tax efficient funds and genrate 5K a month of income now which is about equal to my living expenses. and I use the income to maintain a 6 month emergency cas account. And this income allowed me to retire in my 50s. I have a 401K and roth which I will be able to access at 60.

Various_Couple_764

Keep in mind the age - 100 rule was widely used before retirment accounts existed. So everyone was using taxable brokerages. With no ability to avoid taxes the safe way to minimize taxes was to gradually shift you porfolio from mostly growth to mostly income over time. Now with Roth, IRA, 401K many say stay full invested in stocks and then switch to inocme. Since you can sell at any time and pay no taxed this waite until the last minute aproach will work. But these are strictly retirement rules. which means it is assumed you cannot withdrawal the money until age 60. There are many peoplethatdon't want to wait for incomeuntile age 60. having divined income from your investments can be a type of insurance against unemployment or a medical crysis that prevents you from working for moths to several years. Others want to retire ass soon as possible, gas 30 to 40 or earlier, and that means a taxable account. Others want income for vacation or hobbies. So overall i would not use age as rule defining how you invest. With dividend funds like QQQI 13% yield, SPYI 11% yield, EMO 8%, UTF 7%, UTG 6% and PFF you could get substantial income at any age for any reason and these funds all generate qualified or ROC dividend so they are tax efficient investments and the income is paid out in montly installments.

nralifemem

0DTE, always 9:30ish. always selling iron condor at 1 stdev and 1.5 stdev from both side (lower profit but very small margin, ROC is much higher than outright strangle or wider strikes), either 40% of premium pnl met, or close at 12:30... last two hrs or iron fly is bit too risky for me. But lately the commish and fees is eating into the profit big time, as IV collapse, today spx 0DTE atm at one time trade at 6%IV, I got out around 12 with 50% pnl on the premium. but my broker got almost a quarter of the pnl. thinking to trade higher IV stock 0DTE or go to longer duration to reduce this "working for broker" tax.

7loUge

Looks like a value trap. You need to look at a lot more than P/S. For one, as already mentioned, they have negative free cash flow. Actually in the last 10 years they've had positive FCF exactly once. ROC has been negative the entire last decade. Net income of $56m off of $1.6b revenue. The only number that looks good is their P/S.

_hiddenscout

Yeah, but you are asking for suggestions out a very vague screen. What I'm suggesting is you should add more filters to find companies. Try looking for companies with maybe a PB under 3 or 4. What about something with higher margins. How about ROC higher than like 15%. You are basically just saying, what does any like in healthcare largecaps and listing every single company.

_hiddenscout

You need to screen with more paramaters. Try looking at ROC, PE, PS, and PB.

1daBread

If these were the actual prices then, sure, that works out. But as of writing this. The 436C last sold for 9.98 and the 436P was 4.76. SPY closed at 439.66. So you would only be netting 1.1 in credit. And that's only a .002 ROC.

sicha76

Zimbabwe is reaping the benefits of Chinese triggered investments. The republic of Zimbabwe will soon be renamed to ROC.

_hiddenscout

I use a combo of [https://finviz.com/](https://finviz.com/) and [https://stockanalysis.com/](https://stockanalysis.com/) for screening and research. The way I invest is start out with a thesis or an idea of what I want to get involved with. Like this video is a great idea around grid modernization: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ScJ\_FwaZk&t=347s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ScJ_FwaZk&t=347s) Has nothing to do with investing, but talks about the need and how we will update the grid if you want to go more renewable energy. This is one of the things that sparked my interest around the idea of going after electrification and grid modernization. It's kind like the buffet/munger idea of learning. I think some of the best investers are people that are just inquiztive and like to learn. As far as screening goes, I always look for companies with a foward PE under 30, since I'm ok with a higer pe is there growth in the company. I target PS under 2. The price-to-sales (P/S) ratio shows how much investors are willing to pay per dollar of sales for a stock. I don't mind paying up again for a quality/solid business. I also like a PEG under 2. In theory, a PEG ratio value of 1 represents a perfect correlation between the company's market value and its projected earnings growth. PEG ratios higher than 1.0 are generally considered unfavorable, suggesting a stock is overvalued. Conversely, ratios lower than 1.0 are considered better, indicating a stock is undervalued. So again, I don't mind over paying a bit for a quality company. I like smaller market caps, like under 50B, since I think mid caps can get more growth or companies are still more in the growth phase at that point. I like high gross margin, like 15%, since it just means the company is able to make more based off what they sale. Lower margin business really don't interest me. That's like supermarkets and costcos for example. I also screen for volume over 10K, since lower volume stocks can move in weird prices and ask/bid can be off. I look for revenue growth over 10%. Again, just want to target companies that are growing. Also a lot of these are kind looking to beat the SPY, so the SPY average sales growth rate is 5% and average PE is around 15. One of the big ones is looking for companies with a higher return on capital. Like I target over 15%. ROC is a measure of a company's profitability that takes into account the amount of money invested in the company. The ROC measures how well a company is using its capital to generate profits. Generally a company with higher ROC means it's just ran well. From there, I start finding companies that meet my screening needs. Then I start researching. One of the first things I look at is performance. I will not buy companies underperforming the SPY on the 5Y mark. Since there is always a trade off being in an index, you are taking on risk. So I want to make sure the long term performance is there. I also look at all time performance, to see if the company was ever in a bubble or follows some types of trends. Then I look at the revenue, since 2020 was a weird year, I want make sure revenue growth is still happening post pandemic. Next phase is doing the part of reading earning reports. I also go to seeking alpha and see how some peers are, which gives more companies to look into as well.

creemeeseason

Find companies that have high ROC, make sure they have a long runway, hold for a really long time.

CM_4321

I sell very far out of the money and then manage the net delta exposure if price moves too close to each strike. So I don’t mind the risk, I used to use over 20% per trade, but now I’m diversifying my risk better. Smaller size. I mean made almost half a percent on my account on this trade. Usually aim for 1% return per trade on iron condors (10% ROC)

SPAC_Time

[Drilling Tools International, a Leading Oilfield Services Company, Completes Business Combination with ROC Energy Acquisition Corp. and Will Commence Trading on Nasdaq Under Ticker Symbol "DTI"](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/drilling-tools-international-a-leading-oilfield-services-company-completes-business-combination-with-roc-energy-acquisition-corp-and-will-commence-trading-on-nasdaq-under-ticker-symbol-dti-301855846.html) \- ROC -> DTI ROCAR/10 -> DTI on June 21, 2023

notextremelyhelpful

I'm assuming by "corporates" you mean long corporate bonds? I know you're going to hate this generic/canned answer, but it's the right one. "It depends". First and foremost, I'm going to assume that you're only using semi-play money since you're looking to "spruce up" your income. If that's not the case, definitely stay as far away as you can from CSP strategies. Second, there's a huge difference between option writing strategies and fixed income investments. The only way you get screwed on corps is in default (unless you're playing with callable/puttable bonds, which have their own dynamics). CSPs are very much a directional bet (unless you're running the Wheel strategy), or a "non-black-swan" type of bet. There's a common saying about selling weeklies: "Picking up pennies in front of a steamroller". Sure, it can work well for a decent period of time. But the one time it doesn't, you can blow up your entire account (see: March 2020). If you're in retirement, your risk tolerance should be pretty low. You should be mostly worried about capital preservation, yield should come second. When you think about it, the profit on capital outlay required with CSPs isn't all that attractive. If anything, you might want to try selling put spreads instead of CSPs? That way you get a flavor for it with a defined-risk trade. For example, if I sold a 1-week 30-delta put on SPY (Jun16 23 426P, $1.72 collected in premium) the cash-secured requirement would be $42.6k. Assuming the trade works out, that's a measly 0.4% return on capital? Sure, if you compound it (52 weeks/yr) that's close to a 21% return (simple compounding, back-of-the-napkin math), but that's assuming you **win 100% of your trades** which is impossible. If I sell a 1-week 30-delta/15-delta put spread on SPY (Jun16 23 426P, $1.72 collected, Jun16 23 421P, $0.72 paid) then you're getting a \~20% return on capital. Compound that? You're blowing the CSP out of the water. Obviously there's some nuance to what I said above, but I'd genuinely urge you to consider selling put spreads instead of CSPs if you're going the weekly route. Defined-risk better fits your profile, and the ROC is insanely better. Just my 2 cents.

xcvggcc

Head over to stocktwits ROC page. More details over there.

xcvggcc

ROC merger was announced yesterday.

xcvggcc

ROC merger was announced yesterday!

SPAC_Time

[ROC Energy Acquisition Corp Shareholders Approve Business Combination with Drilling Tools International & Extension up to two times, from June 6, 2023 to August 6, 2023; Business Combination expected to Close "in June 2023"](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1884516/000110465923068970/tm2318012d1_8k.htm) \- ROC ROCAR No information on redemptions

TenragZeal

I’m not convinced on a full upswing just yet. Looking at $SPY technicals I see some things for both bear and bull: - Bear Argument: - High daily RSI. - Moderate positive ROC. - Upward Channel since March. - Lowest $VIX for the last 1 Year. These point to a decent downturn incoming for at least a couple of weeks. In fact pre-bear market you could typically bet on a dump when VIX hit ~15, and here we are under that. - Bill Argument: - People love investing money, the market will irrationally go up much longer than down. - Friday resulted in an upward breakout from an already upward channel. Really those are the only things making me think we won’t see a short term downturn, but they’re two very convincing things. If I were looking for a long term play, as OP clearly is, I’d go Calls. But short term I’m leaning more toward $SPY seeing some red for a bit. It’s just been going TOO perfectly, and for several months too.

Junior_Tip4375

It's not wrong if you have wash sales on other stocks you're not currently trading. I flipped out reading an article about a guy who owed 800k taxes on a 45k capital gain,buying and selling stocks 15-50 times a day on margin. The only way this could be possible is if he had millions of dollars of losses that were disallowed. While my broker told me to to contact my accountant, he pretty much said the disallowed loss couldn't offset capital gains. When I was down 30% I did thousands of trades and dividend capture strategies with 30k in wash sales and all those ROC(return of capital distributions) reduced my cost basis. If I sell the entire account, I'd have to pay 30k in capital gains even though I got it to breakeven. By Jan, my capital gains completely offset my wash sale losses. Of course there are ways around paying taxes-like using margin instead of selling positions or gradually sell positions in some years to spread the tax out. Worst case scenario I'll go on a payment plan....its a wash..like it never happened. My small margin account went from 53500 to 42k up to 62k in Jan back down 55700 in May....I had enough real losses to completely offset my capital gains except for $358. Right now, my goal is to lower my cost average on positions in which the cost basis is higher from wash sales. I'm not going to fret

SlayZomb1

Have a CB of $8.10 on $ROC and it seems to be looking good so far! :)

SlayZomb1

Putting in a stink bid on $ROC to try and catch a bottom here now that NAV floor is gone.

auradragon1

Actually, [Taiwan officially claims](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/07/taiwans-status-geopolitical-absurdity/593371/) the entirety of mainland China as its own. >The ROC constitution, meanwhile, still claims Taiwan, China, Mongolia, and the entire South China Sea as its territory, reflecting Chiang’s desire to restore control over areas the Qing Dynasty ruled or claimed at its height, before European, Japanese, and American colonialism began eating away at it. The **only difference** between China's claim and Taiwan's claim is that China is now significantly more powerful and actually has the ability to retake Taiwan while Taiwan has zero ability to retake mainland China. Because of this shift in power, Taiwan now wants to officially declare independence but China still won't let it. The moment Taiwan declare independence is the moment China will invade. China and Taiwan's history are extremely complicated and far more nuances than the "good vs evil" western media likes to label.

OnFIRE99

It’s a nice “income” fund along with the sister fund JEPQ. If you do not need income, it is an inefficient holding in a taxable account. With the ELN structure, there is no return of capital (ROC) and distributions are primarily ordinary income.

heizenbergbb

That's actually a nice ROC. You just need stamina and a steady supply of customers.

OutofTownInvestor

When CHINA invades ROC - LEAPS on AMAT

DarkStarOptions

Lol 600 DTE put who does that? For shits I See that someone traded 2,600 SPX Dec 2024 (1.6y) 2,600 P for about 52. On margin that would be approx 20% ROC assuming margin is constant (which it isn’t) and if CSP returns 2% if both are short positions. Funny how it’s 2,600 contracts on a 2,600 strike option.

SlayZomb1

Not at this point but to be fair if you look at my post history I've done AT LEAST three posts about $MCAG in particular along with other rights like $JWAC and $ROC, the former of which popped pretty hard (400%).

jeff_varszegi

For CEFs, key metrics include discount to NAV, yield, distribution types and proportions (ROC etc.), sectors, as well as underlying investment approach and fundamentals. For preferred stocks, key metrics include discount to par, yield, time to call date, yield structure (fixed to floating etc.), as well as sector and company fundamentals (insofar as they go to bankruptcy and non-cumulative non-payment risks). For REITs and BDCs, key metrics include distribution coverage and safety, yield, sector, debt load relative to sector, debt maturity, and type-specific fundamentals (e.g. AFFO). For other stocks, company fundamentals, history including CAGR, projected growth, yield, and distribution safety. For all, analyst coverage level and ratings; credit rating and financing availability; recessionary performance, charted against prior downturns; inflationary performance; taxation, including any foreign tax.

SlayZomb1

Going to move into $ROC rights as soon as some other money clears up from various plays. Their S-4 filing pace is absolutely incredible.

arethosepants

Bad idea because of opportunity cost. If you have cash to play with, you could just buy T-Bills and make 4.5% risk free. Or you could borrow at a 7% APR and pray that you make an 11% return (there is some beer math here….) to just keep up with the risk free interest rate. 11% would be bearing hedge funds. If you don’t have any liquid capital and *that’s* why you’re doing this then it’s a doubly bad solution. Any CSP strategy that is generating adequate ROC to break even with the 7% APR is going to be too risky, and you could be holding shares that aren’t generating income while paying for the privilege. Which is dumb. The answer to these questions in full depth involves some reasonably straightforward math beyond the scope of Reddit.

krisko11

I have had positions go against me because the underlying lost 20+%. I’ve had companies with predictable cashflow like Square (SQ) tank because of short reports and the margin requirement to maintain the position skyrockets (destroying my ROC %). They aren’t losers, I’m not over-leveraged and roll out and down as much as I can to reduce risk. If you invest in unstable assets like FRC (has huge premiums but is extremely volatile) you’ll have a bad time. Apart from that stay true to your game plan and don’t panic-close positions, keep some spare cash (I do 80:20 which is stretching it but having 70-75% of your portfolio invested gives you the chance to sleep at night and a decent return)

_hiddenscout

Yeah, how you screen is really what you like, but for me, I like to look for some of those things I mentioned. Like I want to invest in a company that isn't too terrible valued and has solid margins and ROC. I like to screen when there is sales offs, since my screener usually only pulls back like under 50 companies most of the time. What about TENB stands out to you?

_hiddenscout

I start with a thesis. Then I'll run a stock screener for companies that fit that thesis. Once I found companies I like, then I start reading call transcripts and learning more about the company industry. Like I found ATKR becuase I have a thesis that I want to invest money into companies that will do well with the shift to electrification, IRA, infrastructure money and reshoring. I screened for companies that fit in there and then I look for things like high ROC, PEG's under 2, PS's under 2, Foward PE's under 30, high gross margins, EPS growth and revenue growth.

_hiddenscout

I agree with the overall statement, but the impact to stocks will matter on the company. For the general markets/indexes, I think they are primed to stay more or less range bound until we get rate hike pause and a around of earnings after that. As far as good or bad for stocks, I think we are in a time where strong companies can still deliver and there are parts of the market that will have tail winds. I bring up a lot that i'm investing in companies that will do well because of the ira, infrastructure bill, reshoring and general trend of electrification. One benefit is that with a lot of negativity, there are deals to be found in solid companies. Look for companies with strong balance sheets and giving good ROC, you should be fine in the long run.

TheJolly_Llama

It’s acceleration dude lol ROC

Eall1967

These cycles generally last around 10 years, as there is typically a timeline for exploration, development, and production. In short, ChatGPT is “an AI-powered chatbot developed by OpenAI, based on the GPT (Generative Pretrained Transformer) language model. ” Many big tech players (Google, Microsoft, Alibaba, Baidu) has participated in the field, along with small firms (C3. ai, Zhihu). That is good ROC, not bad, which is also tax advantaged. Welcome to r/dividends!If you are new to the world of dividend investing and are seeking advice, brokerage information, recommendations, and more, please check out the Wiki here. Remember, this is a subreddit for genuine, high-quality discussion. This sub is great. Welcome to r/dividends!If you are new to the world of dividend investing and are seeking advice, brokerage information, recommendations, and more, please check out the Wiki here. Remember, this is a subreddit for genuine, high-quality discussion. But like any investment, it comes with risks and uncertainties, therefore it is important to consider a company's growth potential, industry disruption, innovation, regulatory and ethical concerns, and valuation. This is not financial advice, please do your own research before investing. Does this submission fit our subreddit?Please advise, thanks. . I am a beginner Investor. . Welcome to r/dividends!If you are new to the world of dividend investing and are seeking advice, brokerage information, recommendations, and more, please check out the Wiki here. Remember, this is a subreddit for genuine, high-quality discussion. If so, which ones?Welcome to r/dividends!If you are new to the world of dividend investing and are seeking advice, brokerage information, recommendations, and more, please check out the Wiki here. Remember, this is a subreddit for genuine, high-quality discussion. Thoughts and suggestions?Welcome to r/dividends!If you are new to the world of dividend investing and are seeking advice, brokerage information, recommendations, and more, please check out the Wiki here. Remember, this is a subreddit for genuine, high-quality discussion.

Verbal_v2

I typically put a directional bias on my strangles. The most recent I went with a bullish bias that saw me through the recent run up on the indices. I rolled up the put and got out at 42% profit. I close most short strategies and long verticals at 50% as well. If I haven't got any plays lined up I might leave them slightly longer but 50% does seem to be the best in terms of ROC. I have found the POP and ROC on short strangles on /MES to be superior than other short strategies I've tried. The breakeven is so wide that there is plenty of time to manage and I am fully prepared to hedge in worst case scenarios. I do trade strangles as one trade and how I manage it does depend on what I think will happen. If I feel my original market outlook has radically changed then I may close out early, if not then I will roll the untested leg looking still looking for 50% profit. I like that there are a lot of ways to defend a strangle, from the typical rolling out to even going inverted or fully hedging one direction. This is why I'm playing /MES, once I've endured a significant move in the market and come out unscathed I will scale it up to /ES. Don't get me wrong, if you over leverage and lack the buying power to hedge or defend appropriately it can all end in tears but so can any strategy really. Verticals are safer in that regard but harder to manage if tested.

mpkmtv

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole . I looked at their portfolio and couldn't figure out how they deliver these dividends, so Look at the distributions profile : [https://www.cefconnect.com/fund/ETG](https://www.cefconnect.com/fund/ETG) about 80% of the dividend is ROC ( return of capital ). They pay you back your money and charge management fee for this... It is a gold mine. For them.

_hiddenscout

I used to work for them, in engineering, and they are pretty terrible employeer. As an investment, it's not the worst, but I don't own a position. Personally, I just like the AWS business, not much else. Just for me personally, I don't like the idea that Amazon has to constantely re-invest their capital in order to stay competitive. It feels like they are caught in a forever growth cycle, the more they grow, they more they need to reinvest money. I think, kind of like UBER, the idea is that automation will take hold one day, in the warehouses for example, and then you will see some nice ROC, but until then, most of the money goes back into the business.

pm_me_your_rigs

but you're paid for it. here your ROC is low.

DorianCHoldingsworth

Rather than picking up pennies on one underlying, use spreads when you have a bullish or bearish thesis on an underlying and instead get closer and get more credit. Also, even for just “trying it out” you really should widen your spreads a bit to be more efficient. If you want to dedicate $20,000 then going $2 wide is only 1% risk per trade but will give you several cents more in initial credit. For example, if you’re bullish on the S&P over the next several weeks then you could do a 370/368 PCS which (based on Friday close prices) would get you $0.21 credit. That’s the 15 delta which is closer but, again, you should be using these with an assumption of direction. So now you’re getting 10% ROC, still keeping your risk small, and you have enough initial credit that you can close early once you get some profit on the trade. You almost always want to manage a spread fairly quickly if you can to remove tail risk, and because as theta decays the premium, the risk/reward profile changes.

dkrich

This is like betting on someone who bought at the top of the housing market in 2008. Sure, they may not go bankrupt but they’re going to have all their money tied up for years while everyone else gets to earn much higher ROC. Terrible investment imo. Would stay away

Tfarecnim

The IV is so intense I was able to open PCS at **374** expiring in 2 days for 30% ROC, wild.

jcoffi

First, most of the indicators I use are longer term indicators. With the exception of the MACD-V, for me time is measured in days and not anything smaller. Too much noise and regime change on shorter timescales. I'm always looking for new data. So much time spent on data: Finding data* Estimating potential value* Cleaning/Normalizing data Generating features Extracting the best features Determine actual value Storing the data for later use *Manual processes For indicators (off the top of my head): MACD-V: ATR weighted MACD is more accurate than RSI, PPO, or MACD. That's not my opinion. It's a published study with math to back it. Using the atan of the vix weighted curve of the T10Y3M. It's more accurate than the yield-curve alone for determining the likelihood of a recession as well as where we are in the business cycle. I used genetic symbolic regression to find a formula that uses the measure of the covariance of returns for the price of treasury bonds to determine the markets direction (That's the one I'm talking about earlier in the thread.) But I'm not giving that one out because it comes with the inherent problems that come when using genetic symbolic regression: I don't understand how the formula works. I just know what it does. My cluster needs more power and/or to be more efficient before and I can dig into the equation to understand things before I put it out there. Another thing I'm tempted to do is use ML to read through all the academic/finance papers regarding the market and convert them into python, determine the best means to test them, and then test them. Highest ROC's are saved. But I need to build a rig with two 4090s before I can do that and I don't want to take that money out to do it when I'm already making enough. Also, check my Reddit profile, I mention a few there too.

Opscanbot

So so so many…… my screener says 63 stocks with sufficient contract liquidity and ROC. Open, Grab, CCL, CHPT, LCID,… Please know that these stocks are trading at low prices for a reason. They are often volatile and risky. If you’re interested in the screener, link in my bio. Feel free to reach out for questions.

H0lland0ats

"And now let's call the Bullish force F sub n, which by definition is perpendicular to the slope of our average ROC for SP over last 5 days and opposite to the bullish force, F sub g. We can now calculate the angle between the current price, and the average price to determine..." Aaaaaandd it's gone.

Demosama

Even if China is democratic (it has elements of democracy already. What you really mean is China must follow the same model of the United States to be qualified as democratic, which is a bogus definition), the United States would still interfere with China’s internal affairs. It’s about us hegemony. Btw, if you really understand the history of ROC, you wouldn’t say Taiwan is a democracy.

actuallyactuarial

Actuary. Evaluating prices for products with an unknown cost at time.of sale, which sometimes may not be known for decades (product liability etc) and overlaying financial returns until said payout time(s) to determine a discounted ROC.

_hiddenscout

Yeah, I've done my DD on all those companies, all are solid buys. Aways do your own DD, but looking at some quick fundamentals on WCC, it's nothing crazy expensive. Foward PE is 9, PEG is 1.12, PS is .4, PB is 1.95, Crazy EPS growth and solid ROC.

_hiddenscout

I posted about it earlier, but I was doing some screening last night and came across: DXL G. They are the big and tall stores lol. However, it's been an amazing stock. 1Y return is 40%, 5Y return is 141%. I haven't dug too much into them, but looking at the fundamentals, Forward PE is 8, PEG is .3, PS is .72. They offer solid ROC, ROA, and ROC. They have been buying back shares YoY and have solid gross margins. I don't really follow the retail space, but I love finding companies like this. I never see anyone bring them up, but they are crushing it right now. \*reposted becuase I can't post the ticker without it being removed.

_hiddenscout

I posted about it earlier, but I was doing some screening last night and came across DXLG. They are the big and tall stores lol. However, it's been an amazing stock. 1Y return is 40%, 5Y return is 141%. I haven't dug too much into them, but looking at the fundamentals, Forward PE is 8, PEG is .3, PS is .72. They offer solid ROC, ROA, and ROC. They have been buying back shares YoY and have solid gross margins. I don't really follow the retail space, but I love finding companies like this. I never see anyone bring them up, but they are crushing it right now.

_hiddenscout

I mean look at their ROC for like the last decade as well.

NH_trader

I'm conservative and non directional. I do this for ROC (return on capital), 60% short strangles (/ES and QQQ) 40% short Iron Condors (SPX)

shortyafter

My situation is kind of unique. I'm 31 too but I live in small town Spain. Life is cheap here. I'm working freelance, doesn't pay much but leaves me just enough to have a decent life. Also, I love it and I don't have to work that many hours (25-30 a week). I just started going freelance and I may actually need dividends to cover me when I have a slow period. So that's part of it. Also, I don't really need huge retirement savings because social security is pretty good here (if it doesn't collapse, lol). So I don't really care that much about growth. That said, just yesterday I thought maybe it was time to start throwing a bit into VTI every now and then just to have little bit of growth going on. Even if the world financial system collapses in 40 years I'm sure I'll get some return out of it. I dunno. I kinda feel like an old-style bond investor or something, but with dividend stocks. You have a nice modest life, you put your money in some bonds, life isn't too expensive, government will take care of you. To be honest, not sure if this is realistic to carry out in the USA or even a more developed European economy, but I'm pretty happy with my plan. Let's see if it pans out. Good that you look at ROC. If you can stay out of the financialization madness some way, more power to you. I'll check out your post.

_hiddenscout

Fair point. There’s also an argument around the idea of index bubbles. I’m hit or miss on dividends. Not sure about you, but I’m in my 30s and more focused on growing wealth and rather see equity price go up. No taxes lol. Agreed 100% about the ROC of a company. I posted earlier about my strategy, but I only buy companies now that have high ROC.

_hiddenscout

No idea, but I think part of the reason why people vastly underperform is a few reasons. One, is they are way too active. Like some of the best investors are dead lol. Another is that a vast majority of people don’t actually research or understand what they are buying. Then there’s the additive impact of not looking at fundamentals. It also takes time to research companies as well, which people can be lazy. Like I read a few earnings report before I buy any company. What’s worked well for me is just focusing on companies that should do well based off macro trends and then focus on the fundamentals. If they grow makes sense, then the stock should do well. Like personally I stick with companies with less than a 25x forward pe, gross margins more than 20%, ROC more than 29%, PEG less than 2, PS less than 2. I look at the debt compared to FCF. Also look at the revenue growth. Then I compare the performance of the company against the SPY on the 1Y and 5Y mark. I think having a strategy around how you buy is really underrated and not discussed a lot.

UnconventionalWealth

They are the indexes. Look up their holdings. One is S&P and CRF is nasdaq. The dividend just offsets some capital appreciation. I also own many Eaton Vance funds. But they don’t make as much for me as cornerstone, as shown by the math on my personal returns and income, and so I am more overweight CLM. On the daily CLM/CRF trade just like the market. It is the DRIP ROC and rights offerings that skew long term performance. But you circumnavigate this by selling before the ROs. That way you get 30% premiums on average AND the 20% yield. Just learn how to use this info on rights offerings and play it right.

ScipioAtTheGate

We should derecognize the PRC and transfer the debt obligations they own to the ROC at a major discount. America will profit!

UnconventionalWealth

That’s what many bears say, I get it. Many closed end funds have rights offerings and operate like this, with ROC and drips as well. When you learn to use them to your advantage it helps with returns. Also, Cornerstone raised more money than it ever had at its last RO, according to rumors, please verify. There is a reason it is 4-stars on Morningstar. Do you think such a prestigious ratings company like Morningstar would not have qualified enough research teams to do their DD on many of those closed end funds, which you claim are in essence Ponzi schemes? In a vacuum I see your point. But that would be true if these companies didn’t own real assets. CLM and CRF own the holdings within the S&P and Nasdaq. There is real value there.

PapaCharlie9

Not sure what you mean by "position size"? Are you talking about ROC vs ROI vs ROR? The basis for each is different. ROC: You can think of this as the opportunity cost basis. The trade takes up some amount of buying power that could have been used on some other trade or just left as cash to earn the risk free rate. So you can use the reduction in buying power as the basis in this case. ROI: Same as ROC, but you would only use cash balance or other capital you converted to cash as the cost basis, not any loans or debt you may take out against other equity. ROR: Here you have more flexibility. You can use worst-case risk, which usually understates your rate of return. Or you can use some kind of average or nominal risk. Or you can use whatever loss target you manage risk to.

ShortPutAndPMCC

Taiwan and China are entirely different from Ukraine and Russia situation. After WW2, the Republic of China (ROC) government, led by the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT), took control of Taiwan. At the time, the ROC government claimed to be the legitimate government of all of China, including Taiwan. Fast forward to 2023, it’s logical that they are comfortable after being on their own for decades, and obviously they no longer make that claim about being the legitimate government of China. But that doesn’t change the fact that they have always been, in all actuality, part of China. Taiwan called itself the Republic of China for a reason. Whereas for the Ukraine situation, let’s be honest, it’s a pure invasion of Ukraine’s territory. If China is trying to play the nice guy and gain some international brownie points, it’s one thing to ignore them, and another thing to cast Taiwan and Ukraine in the same light.

NH_trader

I do weekly trades (strangles), but I don’t use the conventional “% of gain” approach. I trade for a decent annualized Return on Capital (ROC).....isn’t that why we do this? I annualize the ROC (365/DTE) to be able to compare trades. When I enter the trade, I know in advance what the anticipated APR is and I enter the specifics in a simple spreadsheet that computes the APR. Then each morning I simply update the prices and the spreadsheet computes today's APR using the reduced DTE. If the new APR is higher than the original, that tells me that if I close at these prices, I can get a better return than I originally anticipated, so I take the profits off the table which frees up the capital and I move to another trade. I could leave it on, but from that point forward, the ROC will decline back to the original ROC which is good, but less than what I can get now. Yesterday I put on a strangle trade that showed a 50% ROC for 5 days (met my target). This morning the prices have dropped (as has the DTE) where the trade now shows an annualized 80% return…..whoa, that’s great…however, if I close now, the amount of premium I receive will only be a third of the original…..should I take the lower premium…you betcha, because my objective is return on capital, not simply the amount of premium…..good ROC adds up. Just sharing my way.

derivativesnyc

noicey noice. 100% ROC, what's the ROE like (ie., what % of the total account pie is the slice allocated to the pozish)

_gdm_

I fully agree with you. However, i am not so sure about china trying to leverage that infrastructure as geopolitical bargaining chip themselves; i believe the countries who received infrastructure or participated directly in the belt and road initiatives will themselves align their preference towards a country that "used" them by building things they need instead of conquering/invading/genociding them like the west did. It is a much softer way of creating influence, and one that probably all developing countries prefer. China is playing the long term gain and sacrificing short term gains, and it seems to be working very well with developing countries. Regarding ROC and their island Taiwan, they are de jure at war still with PRC, so the situation is very complex and too difficult to summarize in a comment. Wikipedia says they are officially at war now: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese\_Civil\_War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War) I just hope people can live with each other, no dictatorships exist and humanity can progress together.

FrankLucasV2

Semiconductor stocks like TSM would be the least of your concerns like others have stated. The global economy would be brought to its knees and tech stocks would lead losses if a full scale invasion were to happen. Taiwan make 92% and South Korea make 8% of the worlds most advanced chips respectively. The ripple effects would be disastrous as China (and other South Asian countries) use the strait of Malacca as their preferred path to ship exports and receive imports, which in turn puts major downward pressure on the Chinese as well as its neighbours like Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia and more as China is regarded as the manufacturing hub of the world (even though companies are looking for alternatives) and are critical to the world’s supply chain. In turn, the effects will ripple throughout the world economy. China invading Taiwan solely for semiconductors doesn’t really make any sense imo, the way I see it, I think it’s an additional reason for them to do it. The main reason is to do with the CCP and the KMT, who recognise Taiwan alongside Mongolia, Tibet, . Taiwan has been governed independently of China since 1949, but Beijing views the island as part of its territory. Beijing has vowed to eventually “unify” Taiwan with the mainland, using force if necessary. Tensions are rising. Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen, whose party platform favors independence, has rebuked Beijing’s efforts to undermine democracy. Beijing has ramped up political and military pressure on Taipei. Taiwan’s KMT-drafted constitution continues to recognize China, Mongolia, Taiwan, Tibet, and the South China Sea as part of the ROC. The KMT does not support Taiwan’s independence and has consistently called for closer ties with Beijing. But in the face of recent election losses, KMT leaders have discussed whether to change the party’s stance on the 1992 Consensus.

Eclipsed830

>The RoC and literally everyone else has agreed with the one government two systems model... one government being China. Uhhhhh no. "One Country, Two Systems" is an agreement with Hong Kong and Macau... It has never applied to Taiwan. Taiwan is clear that they do not follow under "One Country, Two Systems". The ROC also doesn't use the term "China". It does not appear in the Constitution, nor in any laws or a legal sense. The term "China" almost exclusively refers to the PRC here in Taiwan. ---- >So yes, interpreting the law, politics, and history correctly is working. What's not working is the usa insisting, despite all formal agreement, that Taiwan is somehow a fully separate entity when it's not. As someone typing to you from Taiwan, I assure you we are in fact a sovereign independent country already. It does not matter what the US or China say or think... The on the ground reality is we are independent. ---- >The RoC not claiming independence is just proving my point that they are China, as is the mainland. Saying, "well they can't claim independence" is not an argument that they are independent. The opposite actually. Uhhhhhh the ROC government is clear that we are a sovereign independent country already. Directly from Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs government website, https://taiwan.gov.tw: >The Republic of China (Taiwan) is situated in the West Pacific between Japan and the Philippines. Its jurisdiction extends to the archipelagoes of Penghu, Kinmen and Matsu, as well as numerous other islets. The total area of Taiwan proper and its outlying islands is around 36,197 square kilometers. > >**The ROC is a sovereign and independent state that maintains its own national defense and conducts its own foreign affairs.** The ultimate goal of the country’s foreign policy is to ensure a favorable environment for the nation’s preservation and long-term development." Explained by the President of Taiwan in clear English during a [BBC interview two years ago when asked if she would declare independence](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51104246): >We don't have a need to declare ourselves an independent state, **we are an independent country already and we call ourselves the Republic of China, Taiwan**. Clarified by the [ROC Ministry of Foreign Affairs](https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2021/09/08/2003764010) spokesperson Joanne Ou: >The ministry would continue to stress to members of the international community that **the Republic of China is a sovereign nation, not a part of the PRC**, and that Taiwan’s future can only be decided by its 23.5 million people.

Eclipsed830

>The RoC and literally everyone else has agreed with the one government two systems model... one government being China. Uhhhhh no. "One Country, Two Systems" is an agreement with Hong Kong and Macau... It has never applied to Taiwan. Taiwan is clear that they do not follow under "One Country, Two Systems". The ROC also doesn't use the term "China". It does not appear in the Constitution, nor in any laws or a legal sense. The term "China" almost exclusively refers to the PRC here in Taiwan. ---- >So yes, interpreting the law, politics, and history correctly is working. What's not working is the usa insisting, despite all formal agreement, that Taiwan is somehow a fully separate entity when it's not. As someone typing to you from Taiwan, I assure you we are in fact a sovereign independent country already. It does not matter what the US or China say or think... The on the ground reality is we are independent. ---- >The RoC not claiming independence is just proving my point that they are China, as is the mainland. Saying, "well they can't claim independence" is not an argument that they are independent. The opposite actually. Uhhhhhh the ROC government is clear that we are a sovereign independent country already. Directly from Taiwan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs government website, https://taiwan.gov.tw: >The Republic of China (Taiwan) is situated in the West Pacific between Japan and the Philippines. Its jurisdiction extends to the archipelagoes of Penghu, Kinmen and Matsu, as well as numerous other islets. The total area of Taiwan proper and its outlying islands is around 36,197 square kilometers. > >**The ROC is a sovereign and independent state that maintains its own national defense and conducts its own foreign affairs.** The ultimate goal of the country’s foreign policy is to ensure a favorable environment for the nation’s preservation and long-term development." Explained by the President of Taiwan in clear English during a [BBC interview two years ago when asked if she would declare independence](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51104246): >We don't have a need to declare ourselves an independent state, **we are an independent country already and we call ourselves the Republic of China, Taiwan**. Clarified by the [ROC Ministry of Foreign Affairs](https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2021/09/08/2003764010) spokesperson Joanne Ou: >The ministry would continue to stress to members of the international community that **the Republic of China is a sovereign nation, not a part of the PRC**, and that Taiwan’s future can only be decided by its 23.5 million people.

Eclipsed830

ROC hasn't claimed effective control or jurisdiction over the Mainland Area in decades.

wertyuio_qp

“The RoC and literally everyone else has agreed with the one government two systems model… one government being China.” See, here you’re just making things up. There is no government called China. There’s the PRC and the ROC, two separate governments. Policies made by either government have zero sway on citizens of the other. And who is this “everyone else” you mention? So you claim that Taiwan isn’t a fully separate entity from China. Can you name 3 ways in which this is true? Bet you’ll be surprised to learn that Chinese nationals cannot vote in Taiwanese elections. That Chinese generals have no authority over Taiwanese soldiers. That Chinese nationals need a visa to enter Taiwan. That most of Taiwan’s institutions and infrastructure are Japanese in origin, not Chinese. Or that New Taiwan Dollars are not legal tender in China, and Chinese Yuan are not legal tender in Taiwan. Or that if you went to Taiwan and started talking about 中國人, most people wouldn’t think you were talking about them. Or that many older Taiwanese speak Japanese and Taiwanese, but not a lick of Chinese. Taiwan cannot “claim independence” in international diplomacy. It’s just a farce that China flexes its military to keep going to brainwash its populace, and, apparently, they got to you too. If China imploded tomorrow, Taiwan would still be Taiwan. It wouldn’t be China. It wouldn’t try to take over the remains of China. In fact, that’s the day the Republic of Taiwan name is reborn. Big countries have always exerted their power on smaller countries. In this case, China uses its military and economic power to threaten Taiwan into giving it some international lip-service. We’ve seen this happen countless of times. USA-Iraq, everyone and Afghanistan, Russia and former SSR’s, USA and south america, the Nazis in Europe, Japan on East Asia, and the list goes on in perpetuity. Would you have accepted that the USA was a nation before the war of 1812? Or would you have said it was British, and that the French were meddling in a domestic affair? Would you also agree that Ukraine is part of Russia? Or that west China is part of the Japanese empire? Or can you concede that given time, geopolitics change and nations are arise? So you have a choice to make here. You can continue to side with the aggressors, or you could just not. Up to you.

meatspinimusprime

lol IDK where your getting your info from i've tried to back mine up in fact both PRC and ROC constitutions claim Mainland China. So IDK wtf you are talking about.

uh-oh_spaghetti-oh

>others being bitches. Yeah, countries like the USA find it more valuable to be in relations with the PRC then the ROC. Unlike Ukraine, where the western world find relations with Ukraine more valuable than Russia. And we all know why that is.

exaltedbladder

PRC is China, ROC is Taiwan.

stickman07738

Remember ROC has us my the balls with rare earth minerals that are necessary for advanced defense and telecommunication chips. They could squeeze us as hard as they want but it would also hurt them.