BITW
Bitwise 10 Crypto Index Fund
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BITW analysis projected price during a boom
BITW / GDLC - why don’t the fund managers sell some of the underlying crypto and return it at ROC/dividends?
BITW trading at a deep discount to it’s daily NAV. Being used as a short hedge for the selloff in retail?
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I have a 10% allocation to BITW in my retirement accounts. bought in 2022. I've got a BTC wallet that I don't add to or anything like that. not sure when I'll deal with that.
>According to Bitwise CEO Hunter Horsley, this makes BITW the first ETF from a major crypto asset manager to include these newer networks alongside the large-cap names. Genuinely baffled at the idea of a fund manager bragging that he stapled some pink sheets to the large-cap investments. Even if you accept the premise that crypto can be internally diversified, what is the possible thesis for why small new coins belong in an index?
Thanks for posting this. Much cheaper fees and looks like it just got listing approval so should track NAV far better than BITW.
Also eyeing BITW. New to crypto and don't have the time to research the best ones. True that BITW has higher fees than buying direct but that is the idea of this top 10 ETF, it saves you research and rebalancing time. Is anyone aware of other ETFs like this one? Maybe with less fees?
I'm am also new to investing in crypto based stocks. TBH, I am strill trying to determine the difference between an ETF and an index fund in this context (I sort of understand the different but definitely couldn't explain it to someone else). What I am curious about, is if I am already DCA'ing BTC and ETH would would be the benefit in also investing in this over just continuously buying those two coins? I think one plus to investing in BITW would be to get exposure to the other 10% of alt coins in this fund. Essnetially taking the hard work of trying to do it yourself. Is this the way to be looking at this?
BITW: Diversification Made Easy
XRP/XRPW/BITW/VOOG/BRK.B/quantum/photonics/rare earth metals/utilities/bonds/space/data centers/nuclear power
Doesn't EU already have ETPs that can hold SOL and other altcoins? There's even a BITW ETF that holds top 10 cryptos.
There kind of is, BITW. They use derivatives to mimic the weighted return of the top 10 market cap coins (not counting stablecoins).
BITW Purchased at $75 a share. It's at $33 on it's way back up from $5.
Hypothetically it's available right away (assuming you have a [brokerage-inside-plan](https://www.schwab.com/pcra) setup), but your employer may not allow it. I know mine allowed most ETFs but not BITW or GBTC until I brought it up (they'd let me sink my retirement into oil futures, why not crypto?)
looks like mine! I've got MARA, BITW, BITO, BITW
honestly If you want to experience crypto in the stock world just invest in BITW, COIN or MARA. They are all traded and could hit big numbers this cycle.
You said there was no good reason not to own Bitcoin and I gave you several. Intelligent people that have researched can come to different valid conclusions on the question. It’s not as simple as one side “understands” crypto (those who invest in it) and those who don’t invest in it are just ignorant. The argument for owning multiple cryptocurrencies (if you own any) instead of just one is the same as every other asset, diversification. There’s no guarantee that Bitcoin “wins” out of all the others (if any ultimately win). I’d be interested in hearing why you think a single crypto is the best plan. I’d point out that the time frame you quoted (this year) BITW basically doubled Bitcoin’s performance with less drawdown. But that’s irrelevant. Apple has outperformed the S&P for a long time. But 100% apple is not a good buy and hold investment long term. Also I didn’t realize you were arguing Bitcoin was a good inflation hedge. It’s not. There’s several studies showing that theory is not true. Bitcoin rises and falls regardless of whether inflation is rising or falling. It’s done poorly as an inflation hedge recently. There is however some evidence that cryptocurrency can benefit a portfolio as a diversifier (not an inflation hedge) in very small quantities.
I think you’re glossing over some big points here. I’m fine with a 1% holding, but I’d personally rather own something like BITW which owns the top 10 cryptocurrencies for diversification sake. That being said it’s disingenuous to act like there’s no real reason not to own Bitcoin and everyone is just dumb for not doing so. 1. It was a great investment IF you got in very early. Since 2018 it’s has comparable returns to stocks (beating S&P 500 but losing to QQQ) with 75% drawdowns. That’s a steep risk for not much excess reward. If you got in later than that say 2021, you’re probably still in the red. 2. If you got in earlier enough to make a fortune you had to be relatively tech savvy to hold Bitcoin because you couldn’t just buy it at Fidelity like you can now. There was the risk of hacks and questionable markets. 3. A lot of cryptocurrencies have went to zero. So while it’s easy to say you should have just invested in Bitcoin you could have chosen one of the numerous other options and lost everything. Since Bitcoin has been the “default” crypto it’s not seen the meteoric rise you’re referencing. 4. There’s real question as to the value of Bitcoin. People understand investing in companies and there’s relatively straightforward reasons for the valuations, at least over the long term. How much is Bitcoin worth? A lot of people are hesitant to invest in something like that because there’s no real way to know the answer. 5. Prior to Blackrock and others jumping in, there were concerns about countries cracking down on it. Most people may not want to own something that the US may decide to wage war on. Back in the day they just took people’s gold away and made owning it illegal. What do you think something like that would do to Bitcoin’s value?
See its funny because the way I see it, its more of a hubris-driven heindsight bias assertation to say that things will continue as they have been. Fair point regarding the crypto ETF and props for being the first one to notice that. Shows you actually looked at this haha. I would LOVE to have that allocation be direct crypto exposure to something like BITW but I didnt want to deal with the expense or K1. Figured I would stick with what I have in there for now (likely a fairly similar return profile) and then switch it if the SEC ever gets their head out their ass on an ETF.
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The gain is calculated on exactly that. Capital gains. You invest $100, you get back $100. Capital gain: $0. Selling $50 of your $100 with no capital gain is return of capital. Your point made some assumption that there is a higher valuation at sale. Now that maybe true, and it could be why it is not worth it for investors. It depends on the amortized creation of shares (GDLC has probably some gains as it has been created for a while, it is not so sure on BITW due to the more recent creation). Re maximize market price. It may be semantics here. C-Suite and Board members have a fiduciary duty to shareholders. And as such, their goal should be to maximize market shares. Think TSLA, AMZN, AAPL. Here, the goal for these trusts / CEF is to provide value as advertised in their terms / PPMs / OAs, I.e. match the thesis from these. Additionally, their interest is aligned with investors, as they can attract more money. You are pointing that they don’t have a fiduciary duty - fair enough - the term may be too strong here, fiduciary duty does not mean seiorm 10 says that “ The Sponsor strives to minimize tracking error”.
BITW isn't a CEF. It's a statutory trust. Even worse.
lol, BITW hurting their brand…. What brand? The etf trades at a discount to assets because no one trusts them.
No problem. GDLC had a 38% discount as of yesterday. But it's kind of in the same boat as BITW - dominated by the 2 blue chips and splitting the remaining 8% among the other 8 positions. It's also nowhere close to converting to an ETF - if the SEC can't get comfortable with spot bitcoin pricing, then those 8 smaller assets will make them very queasy. Good luck!
Thanks for the thoughtful sats. I really appreciate your time and comments. I actually swapped into BITW from GBTC several months ago because it had higher market cap and more volume. Perhaps I need to swap back to gbtc
Looks like a 44% discount to NAV. GBTC is trading around a 30% discount to NAV. GBTC actually has a reasonable likelihood of getting converted to an ETF in the foreseeable future (which would eliminate the discount), yet the market is still demanding a 30% discount. ETHE discount is closer to 34%. I don't think it's likely to convert to an ETF anytime soon, but it would certainly be in line ahead of BITW. The relative discounts appear to reflect the market expectation of the wait until conversion to ETFs. If GBTC gets good news soon, the discount in the others could contract a bit (NAV may also benefit). If GBTC gets rejected again, all discounts may widen (NAVs may also suffer). I like the risk/reward of GBTC personally. Bitcoin will be the first spot crypto ETF and GBTC is a good candidate for the first bitcoin spot ETF. BITW is 67% bitcoin and 25% ether. I like Bitwise, but it never made sense to me to pay the higher fees of BITW to access the other 8 coins at an 8% weight. All cryptos are correlated anyway. If I were you, I'd probably move BITW into GBTC. You could even pair it with ETHE if you really want to. And if you really want the 8 others, open a Coinbase account or another exchange account. But bitcoin tends to outperform the rest of cryptos during bear markets, so for the time being I'm not inclined to venture too far away from bitcoin. Just my 2 sats
The Fidelity Advantage Bitcoin ETF looks interesting, but as a US investor, I can't get it. There's the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust, but their ongoing issue with the SEC gives me pause. There's BITW, but again, it's an OTC fund w/ a pretty high expense ratio. I don't personally trust either and would rather just invest straight in cryptocurrencies (prob. BTC and ETH), which I don't think is currently worth it. If BITW or GBTC gets accepted into a major exchange, I'll consider buying them. I do want that oversight before buying into it though.
Big ones are FB, TQQQ, QQQ, PLTR, BITW, NFLX. Won’t list the other small losses
Selling everything, adding about 50 more gme, then loading up on BITW See you guys in 5 years
There are weighted indexes like BITW or GDLC.
Or you could just buy BITQ and BITW
I had some BITW I was down by 50 percent for half a year. I just aped in more.
Just buy ARKK, QQQ, and BITW
Don't touch BITW. It grossly underperforms BTC. It *lost* me money while BTC was up double. I tried to hold for a year but it just kept getting worse and I cut my losses.
GDLC and BITW, theres also at least a half dozen to dozen others as well.
I think BITW is the closest thing you can get. It's a fund that just invests in a basket of 10 top cryptocurrencies and rebalances each month. The problem is that the fund structure is kind of weird and the NAV is not tied to the market price. Right now, you can buy it for $48/share and get about $60 worth of crytocurrency. So, it's a great buy. The question is if/when will the price and NAV converge. You can see more information here https://www.bitwiseinvestments.com/funds/Bitwise-10
BITW has performed worse than anything else in my stock or crypto portfolio. I'm so perplexed. It's down over 50% while the crypto market is at ATH. Wtf is going on.
Our recommended strategies are: – Energy – Homebuilders (Golden 6 months) $XHB – Small-caps $IWM – Epicenter $XLI $XLF $XLB $RCD – Creeptoe equities $BITO $GBTC $BITW
Market weighting a basket of crypto tech (ie BITW) is the most index/passive thing you can do. Crypto tech is web2 tech & fintech without a central mainframe. Abstaining and aping a tech subsector are two sides of the active management coin. Zero exposure to [previous](https://imgur.com/a/PWvzKvv) "dangerous & speculative" tech waves is high risk and would have crushed your portfolio. Grouping a fast growing technology subsector with a dying game disc store is not a good way to look at it. Plus, you already market weight GME through your index. Anyone who considers themselves a passive investor should market weight and chill by default. At 20 you should buy and not look at it for 30 years. Passive investing is owning the whole market so you never have to stress about underperforming it like you are now.
I don't know what an IRA is, but if it's the equivalent of what we call a *CELI* in Quebec (or *TFSA* in the rest of Canada; *tax-free savings account*), then no, here in Canada we cannot invest money directly into bitcoin from our TFSA. I tried, as of this morning, to invest in GBTC, which is traded *over-the-counter* (OTC) and tracks the bitcoin index (or at least, tries to, but the price of the shares is not determined by NAV but by buyers vs. sellers), but I couldn't, because I can't buy OTC shares in a TFSA - only in an unregistered account. In Canada (and probably in the US too), the only way to get exposure to crypto directly is to buy crypto directly, and if you want to get exposure by investing in funds rather than by buying cryptocurrencies and holding them yourself, the funds available at the moment are either traded OTC (GBTC, BITW), or that new BITO ETF. But again (in Canada), we can't buy OTC shares in a TFSA, so that leaves us with BITO only. But there's some good news! GBTC has officially submitted a request to the SEC to be converted into an ETF. If the SEC approves the request, we will have an ETF that spots the bitcoin and replicates its performance (or lack thereof). I believe this ETF would be traded in a stock exchange market rather than over-the-counter (OTC), which would make it eligible for TFSA - and perhaps, for what you call an IRA?
BITW...what a piece of garbage this fund is. While just about everything related to that funny coin is kicking A@#, this fund is playing submarine...."Dive, Dive, Dive..."
Yeah, the NAV was really disconnected from the market price for a while. But that's not really a problem with the fund holdings. You can buy the NAV, by the way, if you are an accredited investor. You go directly to the fund, and they will sell you shares at the NAV. The catch is that they are restricted for 12 months when you can't sell. It seems like you should be able to lock in risk free profits by buying at the NAV and shorting either BITW or the actual coins. As firms figure that out, it should drive the BITW trading price closer to NAV and that has definitely happened over the past year.
Your BITW numbers are off. 1 year ago NAV was $10.63, today NAV is $59.64. So it should be up 500-600% something like that.
Still, it sounds interesting! Thank you for telling me about it. It sounds like a good idea for someone who wants to invest in the general crypto world without necessarily buying individual cryptos - the crypto equivalent of someone who invests in an ETF specialized in a business sector (i.e. KARS for electric cars or IDNA for genomics) instead of buying stocks from individual companies in that sector. However, I'm not sure I understand what are the implications of such disconnection. I'm quite new to investing, so there's a lot I still don't quite understand (hence why I like ETFs, which I feel are safer for people like me who don't understand the markets very well yet). Overall, would you recommend BITW, or not? Thank you for your answer! I really appreciate it.
There's also BITW It doesn't hold futures, instead it holds a basket of ten top cryptocurrencies. It gets rebalanced every month. The only problem is that it's a weird fund structure, so the trading price gets disconnected from the nav of the fund. You can see how much the disconnect is here https://www.bitwiseinvestments.com/funds/Bitwise-10 Right now the NAV is about $60 and the price is about $52.