UBI

Independent-Algae138

Then those will be the ones who are wage slaves to the infinite money printer overlords, begging for UBI because AI displaced them in their 15-minute walking city provided by big tech. I feel disappointed for these people, as they don't care to help themselves escape this zoo. They just want a scoop of instant gratification from their keepers (perhaps now in the form of mule worms or crickets when the supply chain has hit max pain from the current farming commodities becoming ever more centralized). Let their slack-jawed fluoride gaze ride while you keep learning and applying yourself. 🎶 Believe me, I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to spark a flame in your heart. 🎶

SyrupStorm

UBI is a dystopian shit storm that nobody wants

banaca4

Well maybe read Up on UBI anf think of the utility of all other ID chains versus dogifwat. Weird question really

SlutoshiThotamoto

Bitcoin will be UBI. Most jobs will be replaced and people will have a set number of years where they are assigned work. They work those years and can retire on their BTC stash or hope they did well enough in their career during those years to get an extension. Retirement will become mandatory. The freedom to work is a privilege rewarded through excellence. Over time this will reward those who can do the most “good” most. A truly good and competitive financial ecosystem. Stack now so you can sit back and watch on Nat Geo later.

Expo24816

There will be an AI tax that creates the funds for the UBI. I never said that the people's work wouldn't be compensated for.

SomeAreLonger

Maybe ask yourself where this UBI will come from?  Sounds more like a world of welfare recipients who will own nothing than a utopia. Bitcoin fixed that too.

SomeAreLonger

CBDC's are likely IMO to play a part in adopting mainstream UBI initiative. Want a handout? It'll be in CBDC's - which will limit your spending options 100%.

HairyChest69

People need to work and we need people to work. I'm actually falling into a UBI debate now I guess. If BTC became a main currency then I imagine it's a fed tied coin. AI will take a lot of high paying jobs, but who picks up the trash?

RemyVonLion

I wondered this as well because it might be a bit of a problem if every other currency becomes almost worthless, but I'm pretty sure the US government will figure out a way to survive and maintain control regardless. And even if there isn't anymore currency to distribute, that simply means people will have to work, barter, negotiate, or otherwise be given/regulated UBI by the governments and taxed entities.

Tanaka-Minoru

Sorry, I should have clarified. No, I don’t think AI will completely replace your job in 10 years. The point I was trying to make was that it might not even have to. If Bitcoin truly does become a world reserve asset (You might disagree but with Bitcoin literally being the most powerful computer network in the world and now adopted by the largest asset manager in the world Blackrock along with inflation around the world, I don’t see any successful way of killing this thing. Which means, given enough time, it will eventually happen.) the surface area to extract taxes from citizens will become smaller and smaller making it more difficult. I believe this will either 1.)Promote even more money printing around the globe as governments struggle to collect taxes from their citizens or 2.) Cause governments to make significant budget cuts to ensure they don’t spiral out into hyperinflation. Given that it’s easier to print money that make policy changes, I suspect it will be the former. AI advancement (Or LLM advancement, whatever you want to call it) in conjunction with the proliferation of Bitcoin could cause serious issues in 5 years let alone 10 or 20. I’m from the US so I’m not super familiar with the geopolitics and policy changes in Europe, but from talking to some of my friends over there and having the limited perspective I have, it doesn’t look great. Which is similar to how I feel about the US but with one major difference. Money. If we’re moving into a world where it will become increasingly more difficult (and eventually impossible) to extract economic value from the society (money), then the correct move is to acquire as much wealth as possible to survive the never ending winter. Like stocking up food for hibernation. That is the one thing the US has over every country in the world. Wealth. The capital markets over here are 40x that of Europe. Just one of our US companies, Microsoft, has a larger market cap than Canada’s entire stock market combined. I myself am retired and in my 20s so some of this doesn’t really relate to me, but sometimes I think what would happen if I didn’t have any wealth at all at a time like this and it freaks me the fuck out. I think if that ever did happen, I would have to hope and pray that some sort of wealth distribution or UBI could save me. I don’t know. What’s your take on it from over there?

Individual2020

That’s all going away. It will be a centralized Soviet-like system issuing stipends and controlling supply chains. CBDCs allow them to control what you buy so this is a way for them to try to control the prices of goods and services on one hand, while issuing currency on the other for people to buy their necessities. The concept of debt is a way to provide elasticity to money while keeping the money sound. So money is issued and then destroyed when the money is paid back. The people in power want control and the best way of control is to have a permanent dependency underclass of people receiving UBI stipends which they can never pay back, of course.

Individual2020

It will be a default with a massive overnight devaluation of the Euro/Dollar giving the crisis to scare everyone. That’s when they’ll introduce the CBDC under a new denomination with UBI built in. The public will be pacified with all the free new “money” they get, and confused by the new denomination since most people can’t do math. So 1 CBDC will cover a $100 carton of milk and no one will complain because their monthly UBI stipend will cover the spike in dollar value of basic necessities. They’ll never go to any hard money standard. Just reboot the fiat standard.

ThoughtsonYaoi

>"anti establishment" <- You mean the giant trillion dollar hedge funds and corporations who are investing heavily in crypto and crypto ETFs? Yes. I also find it interesting that OP regards Warren and her supporters as 'establishment' and crypto as 'anti-establishment'. Last I looked people with real power and wealth were not lining up in her support. The reason Warren is anti-crypto is not for its promises (occupy! banking the unbanked! UBI!), but *for what it so far turned out to be.* Look at it this way: why is the space, with all its promises of change, not full of Warren supporters? (I can think of one reason and there is an x in the word)

crowkeep

The crypto space undeniably suffers at present from issues of trust. It's a young, evolving technology, plagued by growing pains. I have faith that given sufficient time, these can be worked out. We're already seeing this come to fruition through ETF market adoption in "First World" nations. Less developed nations are employing bitcoin against failing fiat landscapes, see El Salvador on the nation-state level and Nigeria on the popular, etc. The space is rich with experimentation (as a developer I've worked with WEB3 and L2 chains, like *Polygon*). And I can see DeFi opening the way to a form of UBI (**Universal Basic Income**) See *Gooddollar* for instance. I prefer to see the glass as half-full. And lest we forget: The vast and broad engines of criminality throughout the world are by and large, still fueled by the blood and drug soaked *American Petro Dollar*.

Bluenosesailor

When the US dollar collapses you think the elite are just going to let their wealth collapse with it? Bitcoin will be how they preserve it while their new "gov coin" UBI scam comes online.

OptiYoshi

Ofc it's turning into an oligarchy, just look around you with talks of AI and UBI etc.

Hooligan_Plow

All of this micro regulation is loopholey bullshit. What we really need is a pollution tax that scales according to how much the energy source damages the environment when used. If you do it properly: * You don't have to worry about what other people are doing, because they are being taxed according to the damage they are doing * You are paying out via UBI, such that most people actually profit from this system and it's not regressive https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/26/canada-passed-a-carbon-tax-that-will-give-most-canadians-more-money * There are no exceptions or loopholes. All energy sources are taxed proportional to their damage and so are imports Then we have fixed the externality that pollution is, and we don't have to worry about MPG on cars, what electricity is used for, whether someone's stove is natural gas, etc. Many countries have begun phasing in pollution taxes and they work. The only barrier is political willpower

FFlifer

Isn't the cause of world hunger at its most basic level that the hungry people aren't able to find or aren't capable of doing something for someone that can afford to pay them so they can buy food? My main argument in this thread is that if Bitcoin drives less work to be needed, it means less compensation available and potentially more people hungry without some sort of UBI, communism, etc. One answer to the problem of having less work available is to reduce the expected hours of work per week but still pay the same amount. It means the same number of people can work and everyone has more free time. Company profits go down but isn't that something most people agree is too high (ie. Wealth gap)

fringecar

So many people haven't thought about how our (otherwise-inane) system of jobs and wages supports our economic system of getting people basics like food and shelter. Even UBI folks focus on "finding the money", and think distribution is as simple as mailing checks.

Bluenosesailor

When hyperinflation starts to pay for UBI this probably won't even be that high of a price.

Amber_Sam

>Why would someone use their CBDC if an alternative exist ? One scenario is, people will get CBDCs for free. It's not that hard to imagine that about 50% of people will lose their jobs thanks to robots and AI. The government will have to introduce some kind of UBI. The easiest way to give free money is to create it. Now, if your business accepts CBDC payments, you're intensified paying your employees in CBDC, because nobody likes to hold weak money.

alexisaacs

UBI is never coming to the USA btw. Too many poor/middle class people are eager to be homeless rather than have a social safety net that protects them, but might also let a lazy person buy a new Playstation 5.

Successful_Sun_7617

Sure I get that. But my post is for a millenial who wants to move up several economic social classes and don’t want to end up on UBI, Virtual reality glasses while on an insect diet in 2030 and beyond

Pleefer

Until they don't... The BRICS nations are already dumping their dollars and stacking gold. Every other civilized nation in the world outside of the West and the grip of the BIS and World Bank has watched this country print dollars to oblivion. They understand what that means. Americans do not. They just want mor stimmy checks and UBI.

TheCryptoAccountant1

some of us barely made it though that. honest hard working people who had 1 home. we got screwed and many people suffered. who went to jail ? they pulled a fast one. i cant wait for my UBI. Auto Deposit for BTC.

Stiltzkinn

Sam will never be the most powerful person in the world, he will always be a servant to the elite state. It is up to you if you want to simp OpenAI and singularity but the gist of it, it will be so dystopian with UBI and CBDC.

Lexsteel11

Not to mention say what you will about him (I think both out candidates suck and wouldn’t stand up for either of them in an argument) but he knows how to reach a fan base. I wrote and deployed a smart contract on ethereum mainnet during Covid as a way to teach myself python and solidity, and the mechanics of NFTs were really fascinating to learn about in terms of governance voting, token gating, airdrops, (which will be 100% how a CBDC-based UBI system would be administered and we will all get social security NFTs to keep in a wallet to identify us online)… I work in digital marketing by day and the only reason we rely on affinity audience targeting on google and Meta for ads is because we can’t reach out to customers who transact with us based on credit card info, and no one checks email anymore… so web3 transactions and NFTs are super promising ways of essentially being able to airdrop communications and perks to people who have transacted with you. Trump clearly sees these NFT releases not only as a money grab but he has used those token mechanics before to airdrop perks to his followers. As someone who gets deplatformed, that could be a powerful tool for him and most people laughed at it Sorry- I think my adderall has hit my system for the morning haha

stayyfr0styy

If that were the case then he’d offer to forgive student loans and give money to illegal immigrants and grant them amnesty and promise free healthcare and free UBI and free everything. That is buying votes, not saying bitcoin is fine.

Ilovekittens345

I really don't think proof of human is such a dumb concept. Or the UBI that Sam Altmans wants to get going with worldcoin. I think it could be implemented much better, but at it's core Worldcoin does seem to try to offer some solution to the new problems we will have with AGI.

Minute_Disk9857

Love it! I was attempting to be careful with my words, hence I said "some costs". But sure my intent was to make a certain point. There are no universal trues. I mean adding on to what you are saying. Nothing is generally true for ALL things (maybe except that all things are interpreted by things that can interpret, but that's not saying much) Ok so you are saying that workers will suffer from inflation and require wage increases to keep up with other inflations. But you don't really give concrete examples? It's also on a scale of certain things right? Sure the world/resources are finite, but I'm not sure I'm seeing your point. I like what you are saying that given a long enough time span that maybe we can do away with inflation? Is that what your last sentence is implying? To take a step back, I probably didn't make my main point clear. Technology and maybe even evolution seems to naturally deflate things (ie make things more efficient). But in terms of social constructs, we (some governments more than others) seem to hinder efficiency... and choose to create inflation (at least that's what the fed wants right?) But sure at the end. I'm agreeing with your point (I think) we should make the world more automated and require less inefficient work. UBI (universal basic income) should be seen as the dividends we are able to pay ourselves through centuries of advanced progresss.

halfbeerhalfhuman

When do i get UBI

Whatwhat0420

No poor here so gg closing the poverty gap. Nice prelude to UBI however. 😉

mc292

regenerative finance and public goods. think carbon credits and UBI

cheeselog

People were saying all of this shit about automation 100 years ago. Jobs continue to be widely available in the first world, yet we have all sorts of reasons why we want handouts instead. Yes, the taxation and UBI will continue to increase. But let's not pretend it's because we *can't* work... It's because we're retarded.

throwaway345t632

I've thought about it and what I think it boils down to is this, if there is indeed a conspiracy behind ETFs approval: 1) USD stays within the US system and private individuals don't bother getting hold of BTC as they're happy with number go up. 2) Institution of new measures similar to European Central Bank, and Bank of England. Specifically, CBDC and social credits system going under the guise "carbon credits". I live in the UK and CBDC is govt official policy, and I got an unwelcome addition to my current (bank) account app recently giving me a monthly carbon score based on my private transactions. Blackrock especially is the lead on "ESG", and while they encounter a lot of resistance to this in the USA, they will try and push CBDC dollar and carbon credits through anyway - probably by means of conditional UBI ("you will own nothing and do as we say) in inner cities at first. 3) Money does not escape to havens or to other countries - the life of US citizens stays rooted in the USA because getting your money out will be a matter of de-locking it from the 401K, then being monitored your whole life by the IRS. Not sure on the exact mechanics of how this might work, but the freedom of cash (i.e. your money being your money to spend as you choose) will reduce. You want to spend money in Thailand? Through tracked digi-dollar only. You want to buy a house and retire in the East? Forget it. 4) Overarching domination of other countries by means of USD. Bitcoin-to-USD and vice versa loses fungibility "to protect you". Basically, to protect against any threat to US global hegemony posed by BRICS. And to keep resources cheap for US interests in politically unstable developing countries. 5) Pick away at the business base of the likes of Coinbase, Binance, etc. On balance, I think the main allure, if there is one, to US elites addicted to infinite Monopoly money is that productive elements of US society become prisoners to it, and can be replaced when required, by keeping them away from capital and ownership of assets and means of production. This keeps people locked in as means of production but not its true owners. I think this is more attractive to them than Russia and off-ramps they can't control. This is because the primary goal achieved by ETFs would be to stop money running into BTC proper on the 4-year cycle.

Bob_Vienna_MVC_93108

democrats will find a way to tax the rest. And by 2030 the communist agenda has UBI established…

boato11

You didn't reply to my first paragraph. Socialists and communists want to abolish the State? What? I am talking about the left. As I said there are various people on the left, but we gotta stick to the topic, don't go into your imaginary left. Socialists and communists want the State to be almost all powerfully. You yourself contradict yourself after a few lines by saying you'd wish the State to provide housing for all. And how would the State do that without robbing more deserving people? If we have mister X who saves and invests in real estate, he will keep on holding more houses for himself. The State, in your scenario, would have to rob him in order to give housing to some undeserving people. I have already addressed this, by saying that collaborative companies do exists but they rarely are a success. Let's not talk about the exception. Employees don't risk much. Not even a tiny fraction compared to the entrepreneur. You say you want the working class being able to preserve the wealth they created. But this is a right wing thing to say. Why does the State inflate the monetary base? To pay the welfare, among other things. How would a leftist state pay a UBI? By debasing the currency (so by robbing the savers). I agree with your last paragraph.

tldrthestoryofmylife

The only people who care all that much about whether the ETF gets approved or denied are the ones looking for a quick pump so they can balance the losses on their equity portfolios or something. Reason being, it's already abundantly clear who won in the court of public opinion; that's what matters more than anything, especially in the election year. The Biden administration will do anything they can to stall, sure, but they themselves are slaves to public opinion. The establishment Democrats than almost anyone, even Elon and Jeff Bezos, but even their money is only valuable up to the stability of the government that issues it, and that will depend entirely on the will of the mob for the next 20 years. I'm from India, where the government is so corrupt that Liz Warren and Nancy Pelosi should be (and probably are) taking notes; we've seen this all before. Over there, all it takes to buy votes is maybe a plate of biryani (spiced rice with goat meat) and a bottle of cheap liquor per head to buy votes; here, they'll probably buy votes with UBI instead, but it's all the same. What you're observing is the collapse of the West playing out in real time. Unfortunately, it's gonna get ugly to the point where the fall of Rome will look like a cakewalk. This is why both the Abrahamic religions and the Dharmic ones (eastern religions incl. Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) have a concept of the apocalypse; you're about to witness firsthand the worst of human nature (and the best!) as this all plays out. Hold onto your bags and hold onto your friends and families, people!

danteselv

Brother that is not how logistics work. I'm not going to explain to you why people need to be identified in order for a government entity to properly utilize the resources they have available. That should be common sense. Without know who is living in an area how the hell is their government supposed to do anything for those people if they don't even know WHO THEY ARE. How can you feed people if you don't know how many are starving? See the point?? Again I live in the US. MY STATE GOVERMENT is offering $25 gift cards for any citizen to complete a survey on the qaulity of service in Healthcare. There is nothing diabolical about it. There's no evil plot. It's a basic strategy that's been used for decades now. World coin is attempting to establish UBI and a globally valid form of identification.

danteselv

What? World coin is part of an identification system right? That's why they're getting scanned. To have identification which is required to participate in any kind of financial system. With the world coin they get access to a globally verified ID. I'm pretty sure that's the point of this. It seems like it's being set up for sole kind of UBI system. They're supposed to spend the money. Now they have valid ID globally and can afford food. They can also have a bank account now that they can prove they actually exist.

0x07AD

Bitcoin was intended to be a currency not a store of value. Its use as a widespread peer to peer cash system is mostly dead with the pivot towards store of value and wealth accumuiation. I own some bitcoin and admit I will sell when it reaches a certain price point. Why? I will be long dead before fiat is replaced and I won't be selfish by taking it to the grave. On the other hand, if governments start introducing UBI and CBDC, I will hold onto my bitcoin and find someone to bequeath it to upon my death.

Feisty-Page2638

the problem with world ID is it lacks decentralization. putting sam altman and the rest of world coin team in charge of identities and UBI across the globe is scary. a centralized system like this could lead to huge restrictions in freedoms. even if not sam altman some government would regulate it and restrict people’s access if they don’t have approved behaviors

Stiltzkinn

Sadly there is nothing you can do, even more people asking for UBI.

humidifier_fire

Also, if it is 10m what will the dollar be worth? What will money be at that point? UBI and CBDC combination?

Halithor

I’m sorry but I don’t understand what you are saying. UBI isn’t something related to cryptocurrency, I mean you could distribute a cryptocurrency instead of fiat as part of it but you can’t then turn around and pretend that it’s something unique to cryptocurrencies. If you’re suggesting an implementation of UBI though that fixes all of the above problems I would fucking love to hear it because I fail to see how giving everyone the same set amount of money would address wealth inequality, address the crazy state of college fees in the US or the other issues they touch on in the ad.

Halithor

Sorry I’m lost, coinbase made this advert, they’re not advocating a systemic change where we roll in UBI. They just want to make profits. They’re playing off the fact a lot of people are struggling and just throwing some feel good slogans out there but they themselves don’t care about any of that. I’m all for a conversation about UBI but this ad is shite and their use of ‘update the system’ is meaningless, feel good buzzwords for advertising with nothing behind it.

Halithor

UBI is ab entire different discussion though and the methodology/implementation/validity etc are all valid discussions. That’s not remotely what Coinbase represents though or want to imply from this ad.

ts_wrathchild

> A valid reason to not support someone would be them wanting to first-strike Iran, or nuke Gaza, or confiscate firearms, or institute UBI. You missed my point entirely. I don't give two shits about Donald Trump. Free him, jail him, give him a Nobel Peace prose - it's no longer something I care about. What I care about is a man *without all of the facts* making decisions based on "feelings". This plays directly into your example above, does it not?

justnmirrrs

Why don't they mint their own national token on a more scalable layer1 or eth L2, back it with BTC as a reserve currency for which people could swap their ELSA(or whatever) as savings They would just need a native wallet, an airdrop, and rewards for staking/validating, make it easy for businesses to integrate and boom!, instant autonomous economy with built-in UBI I'm sure plenty of founders and devs would be falling over each other to be a part of such a project What am I missing here?

ILikePracticalGifts

> Is that a valid reason to not support Vivek?? A valid reason to not support someone would be them wanting to first-strike Iran, or nuke Gaza, or confiscate firearms, or institute UBI. Not virtue signaling for MAGA votes. > Let me state that again This really isn’t the slam dunk you’re making it out to be.

Holiday_Extent_5811

Of course he’s optimistic. He’s rich. The rest of us plebes will be fighting over the bread we can buy with the UBI scraps they end up giving us.

nickoaverdnac

Just so you know, there are left leaning libertarians too. I sort of fancy the philosophy of UBI and other social programs as a means of setting the bar for a fair entry for everyone into the open market, sort of a Social Libertarianism if you will. Viva btc.

Grunblau

This might be the answer no one is talking about. A CBDC would also allow for easy redistribution of wealth for reparations, for example. Easy to distribute UBI and hand out money to certain groups for certain purchases while punishing other groups. Doesn’t work like that with BTC.

couchguitar

Left-wing and right-wing only matters in the U.S. The rest of the democratic world has multiparty systems where you can parse through the varying political platforms that better reflect your beliefs. I like capitalism but want UBI to be adopted. I think we should protect the environment but also build better safer pipelines. I totally endorse universal healthcare but also want to use money to skip the line if I am desperate for healthcare.

HODL_monk

LOL @ Satoshi reference, but I have in fact read the Bitcoin standard, and listen to the podcast, but the reality is, price =/= adoption. While I would rather not take the Peter Schiff position that this thing is one insanely huge bubble, the reality is that Bitcoin has NOT been adopted yet, at least not in the West, outside the still fringe group of Bitcoiners, and could possibly never be adopted, no matter what its USD price, or how many niche companies or tiny countries without a moneyprinter adopt it. Yes, Bitcoin is more adopted than it was 10 years ago, and many soccer moms probably know what it is, but that does not predestine it to ever be fully adopted in the West, and there is a huge number of people that benefit from The Fiat Way It Is, including almost all government bureaucrats, economists, and particularly soccer moms, and betting against soccer moms has so far been a losing bet for all of my life. For example, one of the stupidest pet peeves in my life is the continued expansion of speed bumps, bike lanes, and curbs jutting into the street, all taking away what was formerly car road, and never being built on right of way, or other non-paved road area, and I have spoken out against this madness many times. Its probably as dumb conceptionally as trusting politicians with a moneyprinter, and is certainly a purely Fiat creation, as no one in their right mind would actually spend $10,000 worth of bitcoin on a single useless speed bump, but if you just print the money, why not ? I once told a soccer mom that I hated the super outrageously large speed bumps in her neighborhood, and then I received a shock. She told me that she absolutely LOVED the speed bumps, and was glad I had to slow to 5 mph going over them, for several miles, to waste 15 minutes just to get to her lame mobile home in the back of the complex, and she didn't care how much of my time was wasted slowing down, or that I was a professional driver that had never hit anyone, as long as 'The Children' were safe. Of course this is highly illogical, like the minimum wage, since clearly you could just have infinitely more safety features, like a $1000 minimum wage, and eventually make driving slower than walking, as a 2 mph limit, and requiring pillows strapped to the front and back bumper, would make The Children much safer, but would be stupidly pointless, but there is no logical arguing with Soccer Moms, their faith is unbreakable. I feel that illogic will also be applied to bank bailouts, free healthcare, Wind Turbines, and UBI, and with all this free government on the line, the vast majority of soccer moms will stand against Bitcoin, regardless of how fail fiat is, because they don't directly bear the costs of their stupid programs, and are perfectly happy to push the costs onto the public, and the poor, because they don't understand economics, or hard money, and they never will, and that is why ultimate adoption will always be a question mark, until something makes these foolish citizens reconsider Clown World, but so far, they LOVE it, so Hyper-Bitcoinization can never be assumed to be inevitable, because it is just not.

Stiltzkinn

AI taking jobs is the gateway to UBI, and UBI to CBDC. If you do your research they have been planning this from very long time. All connected.

Dr_Bendova420

My conspiracy theory is CBDC will offer UBI to citizens in need, and also be the entry level of offloading citizens from paper fiat to a U.S. digital dollar.

ragnorosis

I wrote a book that has a similar scenario unfold, it should be out in a few months. Economic crisis, war happens. US Government ties UBI, Selective Service, and CBDC all together in a war response. Some people jump at it, some businesses like only having one payment network, people no longer have to prepare income tax, people are compliant to support the war effort. Other people resist and/or drag their heels on adoption. Cascade failures in multiple complex systems make it a very short-lived situation, and things quickly spiral out of control.

Bitcoin_Maximalist

this was a good read OP. solid predications. >The government offers a solution. UBI’s or Universal Basic Income. The catch? You can only receive it by consolidating your bank accounts to a government CBDC program. >Once these digital currencies are released, every business is mandated to legally accept CBDC’s as payment. They gain rapid acceptance among the populace. Out of convenience, even those that were against CBDC’s start to use them, those who refuse are mandated to in order to pay their taxes. Yep, unfortunately this is how it will play out

Ninjanoel

why would you be a prisoner? You could live in the forest on berriea and beat poonif you really wanted too. anyway, when you don't have to work for money, people do all sorts of other jobs, they done UBI experiments in places, and each time the recipients continue working, they just find more meaningful and fulfilling work.

Ninjanoel

actually I don't think it'll be a government thing. cryptocurrencies are experimenting with decentralised identities, and I'm hoping one day, as a way to promote that sort of identity will be too make receiving UBI as an incentive, though not a fan of the "scan your eyeball for a treat" that onecoin is trying to do. If I was king of the world and everyone HAD to listen to me, I'd try encourage all blockchains to donate a portion of the transaction fees to a ubi fund, crypto is exploding in value, start the fund now and in twenty years we could give everyone UBI just from the interest alone. Also, people die and let "the church" inherit their estate, when again, if you secular and childless, wouldn't you love to donate your millions to a fund that you know would support the whole world? Problem is you can't pay UBI from donations, whatever pays UBI needs to EARN the money it's paying out or the fund would dry up in days, so when I'm a crypto gazillionaire one day, if I put UBI in my will, I'd not expect them to use it to fund 0.005 seconds of everyone's day once, I'd prefer they put that money to work and paid 0.0000005 seconds of everyone's day once a yearly.

R0Y-BATTY

The Indian government are gonna supply UBI to its population? Lmaoo. All of a sudden 80 of its citizens are jobless and the solution would be to give out money for them to have a better life, that’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. Far better would it be to watch populations die fairly quickly of illness and hunger whilst the wealthy lived decadently in a world run by the machines they owned than it would to elevate populations (populations that would be increasing bored with little to do and little money. A world where 80% of jobs were done by AI would see economics collapse.

Ninjanoel

oh, so UBI sounds so bad people are gonna starve instead? crabs in a bucket I guess.

Ninjanoel

how so, when no one can work, and 2 people own all the robots that do all the work, we'll need UBI or we'll starve. Which bit isn't thought through?

nobodyreadusernames

This is a highly imaginary scenario; no one is sending 70 BTC from Kathmandu to Stockholm. People use wire transfers for industrial equipment. My use case is very real and applicable in this time and world. I pay $10 for my seedbox, and these fees make using Bitcoin impractical. Sending 70 BTC to Stockholm for industrial equipment? My ass. If we want to dive into the nonsense of the future, then I'll say AI will do every task and job in the world, creating a new UBI crypto currency and push every other currency aside...

HODL_monk

We need to see what the Power's That Be's response is to Bitcoin's actual mainstream use is, before we know. Chances are it will be a CBDC Panopticon version of the inflating away US dollar, for instant monetary inflation through welfare payments, UBI, and other tax breaks that won't spend on non-ESG stuff, and that will flop, but there is that 0.0001 % chance that they make their own Bitcoin, as full legal tender, with a hard cap, full decentralization, more units for everyone, really nice clean open source code, and a fair airdrop for everyone. LOLOL, of COURSE we know that would never happen, but if it did...

Grunblau

We will all likely have a singular wallet (or maybe business wallet as well) tied to social security ID that receives and sends payments. Transactions will be marked appropriately at moment of transfer. Taxes and fees can be taken every time transactions occur. This wallet contains outward facing credentials like car insurance, age, qualifications, etc… UBI is minimal survival money. $500 per month, for example. Could be activated based on wallet balance. Would be ideal if threshold was high, however. Like if you make over $250K…. Likely, we would get an additional payment if you have a kid that you receive until they are 16 and they start to receive their own UBI. You could save it and invest, if you wish. Automation will need to be taxed based on estimated jobs replaced. People smarter than me will determine ratios. This helps to pay UBI along with our increased productivity. Items that are unhealthy or harmful will have a built in impact tax. If allowed to happen, everything can become extremely liquid. As far as healthcare goes, this is simply a liquidity pool. I pay $480/ mo to access care right now. Currently, there are gatekeepers and paper shufflers that are paid to deny my claims. If I could contribute $500 to a National Health DAO that doesn’t judge, all of this waste could be eliminated and I don’t have to worry if a procedure is covered or my doctor is “in network” The Boomer generation will likely have to be in the ground before any of this can happen. They do not want to upset the system they built to benefit themselves. Unless, of course, we go through a depression level event and those in power at that time take back control to build a more humane system.

caploves1019

While I whole heartedly agree with your assessment on merit based citizenship and currency pegged to BTC, could you further articulate how UBI and healthcare for all are founded in a similar proof of work model? If you argue a separation of church and state to such an extreme, why not approach separation of currency and state to a similar measuring stick?

Grunblau

I’m fine with Nikki considering the alternatives. I wish Democrats would field someone that might consider revisiting universal healthcare, tell the bankers NO on CBDC instead of actively pushing it. Embrace technology and start prosecuting crime. We need someone to reject all of the religiosity that is born of the festering stupidity that has been cultivated over the last 20 years. We need a sobering reassessment of our countries trajectory. Unfortunately, it might take a war to reset our slide. UBI to replace entitlements. No requirements, just citizenship. Studies show this would actually save money. Merit based citizenship unless seeking asylum while staying in Mexico. Universal healthcare. This would release our entrepreneurs that are attached to a 9-5 to preserve healthcare coverage. Currency pegged to commodity or BTC. Hard to wage endless wars when you exhaust the treasury doing so. Strengthen the separation of church and state. Impossible to debate someone with intellectual integrity who believes their position is ordained by God. Err on the side of freedom. My rights end where yours begin.

IlijaRolovic

**...which is why Vitalik proposed soulbound tokens, they solve the Sybil attack you're talk'n bout (peeps with most tokens).** Aka, you get one *National ID**^(TM)* soulbound token, it's accompanied/connected to all the other soulbound tokens that are unique to y'a (state - marriage, birth certificate, school etc and decentralized - jobs, friends, gigs, participations, online gaming etc.) and bam - one peep, one vote. Any potential power disbalance based on number and quality of soulbound tokens you have can be simply solved by making all propositions and voting 100% anonymous. You can easily take it from there, implementing voting and proposals on any geo level (street/town/city/state/country/supranational entity/planet), on any issue, daily, heck, hourly, on an L2 on a PoS. You could fuck around with UBI, fund cool shit, and actually vote with your money, aka choose where the fuck your taxes go - I'm all freak'n for it.

Grunblau

Yeah like 90% would reject the premise… the other 10% is hopeful for a UBI.

2020rattler

Yep this is exactly the scenario I worry about. Ban BTC, outlaw exchanges, and introduce a CBDC that is initially very attractive and user friendly, complete with UBI paid by CBDC. The one thing I wonder though is if there will be an actual desire to kill BTC. It will never be allowed to replace currency, but I could see it being very useful to the powers that be as a base settlement layer, settling international transactions etc.

Rice-Fragrant

Such a system and even minimum wage has to account for cost of living based on state. A nurse practitioner working in Brooklyn NYC makes gross $120,000 base pay, about $60,000 base pay of a regular RN in Atlanta georgia. A primary care physician in San Francisco making $200,000 is about the same as a PA/NP in Atlanta georgia making $100,000. A UBI in San Francisco, Broken etc would need to be 2x more than places like Atlanta georgia… etc.

HODL_monk

The key differences are that the new 1 % cannot print more Bitcoin, so once they 'blow their load' so to speak, then their period of lording their Bitcoin over everyone else will come to an end, and any fool that tries to lend out their Bitcoin for interest will get Celsiscammed out of all their coins, so no one will be able to rent seek in the new order. Also, fiat will be around all through the transition, so anyone who doesn't want the limits can still get their UBI-flation shitbills, although they will probably have to add a few more zeros, as that federal debt snake starts eating itself.

RisottoConLeche

Bitcoin was never meant to be some form of UBI lol It 's just the most democratic form of money.

Normal-Jelly607

They will first test run the option for it. Then they will add incentives like UBI through digital currency only.

liquefire81

“Hey, if you thought printed currency was dog shit, wait until we save even more by just adding zeroes!!!!” The tin foil hat in me feels like cbdcs will be pushed in a UBI initiative, so those not well off will have no choice but to use it.

tellorist

bitcoin is cool, maybe the best invention in the last 50 years, but it needs to somehow upgrade to compete with the leviathan that is going to become of the legacy financial system. I think real privacy features would be the thing that might set it way ahead of the curve vs CBDC's, as in: "if you can't prove I bought btc with your UBI coins, you can't punish me for it" - unless they twist around presumption of innocence, which they kind of did with the virus meme.

roadkill_ressurected

They will implemnt a small UBI, or some other benefits and adoption will follow. They are learning on “case studies” they sponsored, like Nigeria, etc. I am very confident 90% of the public will gobble it up and the rest of us will be labeled conspiracy nut jobs. Sad. But true.

k3surfacer

>if they adopted BTC 10 years ago? There was no financial infrastructure to "adopt" Bitcoin. They could choose BTC as reserve currency and treasury funds and could save their economy in recent years. What some countries can do now is the same but also implement Bitcoin bonds. That will help them in the future to finance public spending as well as an inevitable UBI. But doing this will mean a little conflict with IMF and other control centers of global financial system. Someone clever and brave can do it.

Lv99_Slacker

That subreddit exists to prime people demand UBI, which will come in the form of a CBDC.

Otherwise-Degree-368

Keynesianism will drive us right to a UBI. You shouldn't just be worried about fiat inflation. You should fear it and heavily mock those who support it.

ricozuri

I always see red flags when companies say they will send a percentage of their profits to help something. FTX’s effective altruism, WorldCoin Human Trust and its UBI via AI and iris scans, or even Safemoon’s Gambian windmills as examples. This, however sounds like a solid idea to help the devs and encourage more development. Wonder if they get some tax benefit from it.

MichaelAischmann

Various projects are working on a Sybil-resistant list of humans. [https://proofofhumanity.id](https://proofofhumanity.id) is a UBI project doing exactly that and once we accomplish this we can also build decentralized governance systems. Another project aiming to solve ID is Worldcoin, the controversial brainchild of Sam Altman. Generally speaking, blockchain adoption is a bottom up movement and not a top down implementation. Because El Salvador pushed it on people in a top down manner, it did not achieve the adoption rates most of us would have hoped for. Voluntary participation is key. As far as governance goes, it will be a long path to walk. Even if we can give every human exactly one vote, we still need to fight coercion & corruption. The poorest are at risk of being forced to sell their vote.

DAMG808

>solve universal basic income Lol..sure. we will see about that in the future. I use my phone with buttons and no face check or finger print reader. So yes...i hate Worldcoin to the core. Exploiting low income countries is not attempting to solve UBI Dude.

MichaelAischmann

Yeah. Everyone that scanned their eyes got crypto. It's a UBI project aiming to solve identification. I find it hypocritical how people unlock their phones with biometric data without getting anything & then proceed to hate on world coin for attempting to solve universal basic income.

tupidataba

I didn't watch this documentary yet but I think the project has inspiration in the Universal Basic Income UBI idea as a solution for an all automated and no job future.

Junior_Client3022

Wouldn't Bernie tax the shit out of us and put everyone on UBI? That sounds oppressive as fuck. The dude is part of the fiat empire and would expand it. How is that different than the current system but worse? Not to mention the moral hazard. The dude doesn't even support Bitcoin. What a joke. Politicians are just like shitcoins, they're all a scam.

Junior_Client3022

Wouldn't Bernie tax the shit out of us and put everyone on UBI? That sounds oppressive as fuck. How is that different than the current system but worse?

PedroJTrump

Brahhh rather collect UBI…

evilcRaftKnife

Just hope the penny drops before CBDCs and UBI are dangled in front of us.

Beerupalready

r/cryptocurrency brought Universal Basic Income (UBI) before the governments around the world!

maxcoiner

Um, the whole point here is that bitcoin is incompatible with UBI. Then you argued that UBI is inevitable. Of course the assumption is that UBI would be paid in bitcoin. Once the world is hyperbitcoinized no one would ever accept a fiat again, so UBIs won't have a choice then.

Lupes420

UBI from r/proofofhumanity

maxcoiner

To fund UBI? No, no I haven't.

Beerupalready

I mean UBI on paper doesn’t sound so bad with ai taking over a lot of jobs. Hope they don’t screw us over with CBDC though

Socialinfluencing

CBDC's will be presented as being about equality, giving out a Univeral Basic Income (UBI) so we won't have homeless and stuff like that. But once it gets introduced the trojan will be revealed, your paper money will then be non existent and any and all control you might have had along with it.

atomantic

The rug can go back over the eyes of laypeople quite easily. It happened when we shifted from gold to fiat. There will be parts of the population that adopt hard money and manage to navigate around it, but it seems like we are entering into a financial singularity moment where all things exist in overlapping horror and confusion will prevent a lot of people from making good choices. Some states will do better than others, but in some places, CBDCs will be compelled and UBI may be the last cycle before fiat collapse/hylerbitcoinizarion.

triflingmagoo

I’ll take UBI. More fiat for Bitcoin.

Glass-Society-3462

What about people who can't work? Many countries already have progressive income taxes, which include tax free thresholds at the low end. UBI would be in addition to this. Most of those countries also have some kind of unemployment benefit that is costly and overly complex and could be replaced with a more efficient UBI system.