ACA

teslas_love_pigeon

Mostly the local governments that care about hurting people than helping their constituents. For reference look at which states expanded medicare coverage for the ACA. Nowadays you have state governments removing the right of local constituencies to levy taxes or pass policies they want, this makes it hard to change cities over time to reflect the population. Why anyone would purposely live in a hostile state is beyond me, but lack of money makes us do desperate things.

big_deal

Medicaid or subsidized ACA plan depending on taxable "income" level.

d0s4gw2

Yea you’re probably right. It depends on your annual medical expenses. If out of pocket is under some reasonable threshold and you can cashflow that from your brokerage income then sure. I currently plan to use the HSA like a defensive tool to protect me from large hits, and cashflow the small stuff. Drawing down the HSA would need to happen eventually. I’ll need to figure out what typical out of pocket costs are for ACA type plans, I’ve only ever had employer sponsored plans.

mclardin

I would not have a top line limit in any account unless your investments way overperform. Many people use the out-of-pocket max as the minimum they keep in a HSA. I'm about your age with the same family demographics. My order of Investment Priority (assuming sufficient emergency savings) 1. Any 401k contributions that are matched. This is free money. Please note that even if you have a Roth 401k, the matched portion will be considered pre-tax and gets treated as traditional 401k contributions for distribution purposes. 2. Max HSA. Only account I know of that is tax-free going in and coming out. You don't ever have to touch the money if you pay for medical expenses with a credit card. If you're ever out of work, COBRA/ACA premiums can come from this account if you need it. Save all of your medical bills - I update my sheet every year. **There is no time limit on when you can reimburse yourself if you find yourself in a cash bind.** I used 3 years of medical expenses to meet equity injection requirements for a SBA loan. 4. Roth IRA if I am allowed to. Roth 401k if available - you can roll these into your personal IRA if you switch jobs. 5. Traditional IRA if I'm not. I prefer IRAs to 401k and similar programs because I can choose any investment I want and if I switch jobs I don't have to do anything. Obviously the contribution limits are a lot smaller, so I use both. 6a. Unmatched 401k. I don't usually max these, but you can if you make enough. 6b. Non-retirement accounts for shorter-term goals. These are not tax-advantaged, unless you choose specific investment types. 7. Pokemon cards. Rare Whiskey/Whisky.

bevo_expat

Pretty much. Something to the affect that Congress would keep their platinum level healthcare and not have to use the ACA marketplace.

d0s4gw2

I plan to use my brokerage account and HSA during early retirement. The long term capital gains tax rate is 0% for married couples with annual income below $94k. With a paid off house and 529s for my children’s college expenses, my expenses should be below that threshold. I’ll also have a decently large money market account to be a buffer. With an income below $94k I qualify for a $1k per month subsidy for health insurance through the ACA. After subsidy the premiums are about $500 per month. You can’t use an HSA to pay health insurance premiums but you can use it to pay for most additional healthcare expenses. I’ll evaluate pulling money from my 401(k) and how to handle RMDs after age 59.5. I plan to leave my Roth untouched as long as possible. I plan to take social security as soon as I am eligible. I will have enough money to retire before age 62 and I don’t need to rely on social security to be my primary income, and the years are not guaranteed at that age.

the__storm

About two thirds of federal spending goes towards health (medicare, medicaid, ACA subsidies), social security and income security, and veterans' benefits.

TonyNickels

They exempted themselves from the no Cadillac breakthrough insurance clause in the ACA, so there's precidence.

bevo_expat

Yep, they have god tier healthcare compared to everyone else. They weren’t going to fuck with the ACA marketplace.

DoofusMcDummy

There was a congressional/federal exemption for ACA so it is not outside the realm of possibilities.

Leungal

Okay, but by that definition there's not a single country in the world that has "free healthcare" - there's always a cost and it's either paid directly or via taxes. The US has the same system, it's just obfuscated behind the mess that is privatized health insurance / ACA+state run insurance / medicare / medicaid. Ultimately we're paying for it, you just don't see a specific line item on your paycheck that says "health insurance" You could argue that it's not MANDATORY to have health insurance in the US, but given the existence of the ACA subsidy and essentially free silver-tier health plans, that's like saying it's technically optional to not self-fund your own retirement and rely only on social security.

help_undertanding13

Which years exactly?  The last I heard it was 2009, which only lasted about a year or two, and more importantly they passed the ACA and Dodd-Frank, which addressed the two biggest of the time. 

cafedude

You're limited to $10K/year in iBond purchases (obviously, a married couple could do $20K/year). Used to be you could also get your tax refund in iBonds that weren't subject to that $10K/year limit - not sure if that's still the case, though. I like iBonds as a longterm emergency fund. You need to be able to tie up the money for at least a year. If you redeem them prior to holding for 5 years you'll lose the last quarter of interest. You don't pay taxes on the interest accrued until you redeem them so that can also be an advantage. In my case I'm retired, but not yet 65 so I can't get medicare yet so I'm trying to keep my income under the limit to get ACA subsidies - iBonds are nice for this as they're not adding to my income every year (only when they're redeemed). If you live in a high income tax state (as I do) the other advantage is that the interest is not subject to state income tax.

our_sole

Pensions are nice (my significant other has a very nice one), but it makes it impossible to drop your income down for ACA purposes. Yes, I know....a good problem to have. But health care on ACA w/o subsidies or a private plan is gonna be stupidly expensive..

benb28

That is all dependent on your income. If you have no income, your ACA/Obama Care is affordable. If your income is mid-high, it can be $2,000/m+

ActuariallyNeedsHelp

Some metrics that come to mind. - Loss ratios ratio trend by line of business (different ratios legally required for Medicare vs ACA as an example) - Risk based capital (RBC) ratios - Financial ratings In particular bullet 2 is used to determine if regulatory action is required if a company is looking like its assets cannot cover liabilities.

Tmotech

How do you get to $3 or $4 million in 20/25 years? I don’t know how much you invested at age 40, but let’s say “a few hundred thousand” is $500k.  If those investments grow at 7.5% a year, you’re still at about $2 million, give or take.  And that’s before adjusting for inflation.  Now, maybe you will be able to add to the balance each year.  If so, you could get to the target you mentioned.  Anyway, I just entered retirement at 60.  I made sure I had enough taxable assets to draw down first, as doing so allowed me to qualify for ACA medical coverage. If you have medical coverage in retirement, before age 65, great.  I started shifting my assets in my IRAs  to a more income-driven approach a couple years ago.  Sacrifice some growth but ensure stability.  Mix of dividend, interest, and covered calls to generate income.   I don’t have major debt, mortgages are close to paid off, and no kids to worry about leaving an inheritance to. No weddings to pay for.  So I’m fortunate.  I’ll spend until o run out of money, and then we’ll see what happens.  Suggestions: 1) get your spending in order; know what you spend each month and where you can control your outflows.   2) make sure you have lines of credit set up (HELOC, etc) before you decide to retire.  It’s a good safety net if you need it.  3) I know many people don’t like financial advisors, but IMO they are valuable in retirement.  Test some out, and perhaps only give them a portion to manage. Then you can see what they’re doing and parrot it in your other funds if you’re worried about fees.   4) Don’t be afraid of spending money.  That’s what it’s there for.  5) I pay a small amount each year for the New Retirement website and calculators.  I find them invaluable.    

JackfruitCrazy51

I'll have about 30% Roth and I'm good with that number. If I retire at 60, I'll need to be on ACA for 5 years. I can make my income look pretty low using Roth and get discounts. On the other hand, this would also be a good time fo me to do Roth conversions on the $94k that will fall into the 12 or 15% bucket. I don't know the answer, since I can't predict the future, I just like that I'll have options.

videogames5life

I did not know this. I thought his admin abandoned touching the ACA altogether. TIL

ihaveathingforyou

President Donald Trump signed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017. This bill repealed the tax penalty mandate from the ACA. Therefore, Obamacare tax penalties are no longer in effect on a federal level as of 2019 and onwards. However, several states still mandate tax penalties for not having health insurance.

Lonestar041

Roth distribution don't count as income. When you retire early, you can keep your income under the ACA subsidy limit to reduce your health insurance cost quite significantly. Frind of my just did that until he qualified for Medicare.

LabDaddy59

I suspect the general rule for someone in your shoes is to not bother due to the consideration you mentioned. There are things that should be considered, in my opinion. 1. A Roth may help you bridge health care from retirement to Medicare in that you can set yourself up to qualify for a very low cost ACA health policy. 2. I suggest people consider not only their taxes, but full life cycle taxes; that is, you may leave $1 million to heirs, and how will it be taxed to them? Realize there is a push to get inherited IRAs withdrawn so that the Fed can collect the taxes on them. 3. RMDs can negatively impact Social Security taxation, making up to 85% of your Social Security taxed. Those are a few items that not a lot of people consider.

MarcatBeach

Even better. that is how you run a profitable insurance company. all that matters is that people buy their plans on the ACA exchange.

MarcatBeach

No. it is a money machine. the ACA is the gift that keeps on giving. They go through this type of thing every so often. it is really the cynical play. whatever fines they ever get will be nothing compared to their profits. any weakness and I would load up on this stock The election won't matter. As long as insurance companies can sell garbage plans on the ACA marketplace nothing matters. it is when people wise up and stop buying them. that will be the problem.

generouscookie1981

I'm left leaning, will hold my nose and vote for blue again this time around. But Biden threatening to veto Single Payer really rustled my jimmies. Just admit that ACA was okay at the time but it's still shit because private players are still there.

DodgeBeluga

And there will be no such change. People genuinely thought ACA was going to save the day, turns out it simply expanded insurance companies’ customer base.

AlfB63

If you retire early and would like to use subsidies for ACA healthcare, traditional IRAs and 401ks can be a problem. Subsidies are based on income. Withdrawals from a traditional is income while withdrawals from a Roth are not.

Lumpy_Object_7290

I love my Edward Jones guy, whereas if I call Fidelity, I get some rando every time. Definitely get a financial advisor and ask about putting it all in the VHIAX mutual fund. My Jones account is doing phenomenal. The 10-year withdrawal is a pain even though it's going into a new account and not spendable unless I want to pay early withdrawal taxes (mine was an IRA). It's still considered income. It affects my insurance premium through the ACA because the more you make, the more you pay, so that's tough.

DarthBanEvader42069

While diaper don has been licking his wounds and denying the reality of being a loser for 3 years, our boy Joseph R. Biden has been working for Americans... here's a small sample of his 3 years of accomplishments... \--- Lowering Healthcare and Drug Costs. Prevents 3 million Americans from losing ACA insurance and 10.4 million from paying more. Reforms Medicare to lower drug costs for seniors with Medicare Part D. Caps insulin costs at $35/month for Medicare recipients. All vaccines under Medicare Part D are free. Caps out-of-pocket spending on prescription drugs at $2,000/year starting in 2025. Requires Medicare to negotiate costs of high-cost drugs starting in 2026. Fighting Climate Change and Saving Money on Energy Largest-ever investment in fighting climate change. Predicted to create up to 9 million jobs over a decade. Accelerates transition to clean energy and expands domestic manufacturing. Provides $80 billion in financial rebates for clean energy products. Subsidies could save consumers over $1,800 annually on energy bills. Federal Gun Safety Bill Enhances background checks for buyers under 21. Funds violence interruption programs and incentivizes "red flag" laws. Makes it harder for domestic abusers to buy guns. Investment in Mental Health $10 billion funding for mental healthcare. Expands community behavioral health clinics. Includes funding for mental health counselors in schools and suicide prevention. Canceling Federal Student Loans Cancels up to $20,000 in federal student loan debt for eligible borrowers. Aims to make future repayment terms fairer. Investment in American Industry and Manufacturing Increases domestic microchip manufacturing. $39 billion in incentives for manufacturing facilities. Invests in technology, innovation, and manufacturing competitiveness. Investments in Workers, Families, and Communities $36 billion to protect workers' pensions. Funds public safety, affordable housing, small businesses, and healthcare. Reducing Gas Costs Released oil from the National Strategic Reserve to lower gas prices. National average price of gas down to $3.38/gallon as of Jan. 19. Healthcare for Veterans Exposed to Burn Pits Expands healthcare coverage for veterans exposed to toxins from burn pits. Reforming the US Postal Service $107 billion law for USPS modernization and financial stability. Maintains six-day delivery and introduces a service performance dashboard. Additional Accomplishments Supported Ukraine against Russia's invasion. Signed the Respect for Marriage Act, protecting same-sex and interracial marriages. Reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act. Nominated the first Black woman to the US Supreme Court, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. Pardoned federal offenses of simple marijuana possession and signed the Medical Marijuana and Cannabidiol Research Expansion Act.

MarcatBeach

Two different issues. Medicare has issues. The reason for the ACA was start fixing the issues with Medicaid and Medicare. ( push the cost shifting burden back to private insurance as it was decades ago ). but that has made the problem worse. Social Security is just a matter of time and tweaking things.

MarcatBeach

Health insurance companies are the better play. the ACA is working out better for health insurers than anyone could have projected and will only get better. there is risk that individual states will do things and insurers pull out of the markets, but overall this money train is not ending until Congress does something.

MarcatBeach

People don't realize the purpose of the ACA. The purpose was to fix the cost shifting gap. Medicare and Medicaid have been footing most of the bill for healthcare in the US. which also are the highest cost patients. the ACA forcing people into the risk pool would lower costs for Medicare and Medicaid. That is why there are very specific things that ACA plans must cover. The unintended side effect is that medical costs have risen. the large uninsured population actually helped keep cost contained.

scedar015

Every time I sell a stock I lose 25% of the gains to taxes (federal+state+ACA). That’s a lot. If I know what the stock is going to do between now and when I want to sell, then the decision to sell or hold is an easy arithmetic problem. If I don’t know (which I can’t, because how could I), then it becomes a more difficult question to answer.

vanillabear26

Cuz of a shitty job/having to get ACA healthcare, I have to pay taxes for the first time in a decade. And I did not know this before dropping $500 on NVDA calls. So reversal wen?

prestigious_delay_7

I mwant theough the ACA. Assuming you make $15 per hour ($30k per year, you're probably able to get a cheap or free plan through the exchange).

MarcatBeach

Insurance companies. Providers. Drug industry will be sideways for a while. covid was a boom, but now it comes down to specific product pipelines. One growth area is medical equipment, with AI that is the one specific area to look at. I suspect people will start to realize that the ACA was not about them and stop buying these lousy marketplace plans. See 30 years and beyond employer insurance paid for the bulk of the healthcare in the US. government programs got a free ride. but just before the ACA was passed. taxpayers paid 75cents of every 1.00 spent on healthcare in this country. a few more years of people overpaying for High Deductible plans and that cost shift burden will move away from the taxpayers more, or at least stop it from getting worse.

MarcatBeach

It is a broad industry with many moving parts. At a macro level the ACA is playing out very well for the industry. It is pumping private sector money into the cost shifting pile, and that money is coming out of individual pockets and not insurers. Though any effort to unwind that by a change in political parties would be an issue. Also COVID funding was a big boom and that has gone, so for a segment of the industry there are headwinds.

Valianne11111

You can get an HSA. You will need to go through an agent (non ACA probably because you won’t qualify for a subsidy) and the IRS rules about what qualifies as. HDHP is looser than a lot of insurance companies.

argent_pixel

I'm in a similar situation as you and am not paying down the mortgage. I got $480,000 mortgage at 5.9% in 2022. My thinking is to keep investing now, while waiting for rates to come down, which will probably happen in the next year or two. Once rates get below 5%, I'll pull the trigger on the refi, securing the cheaper rate, while having invested along the way for higher returns down the line. I also have a 30+ year retirement window if I need it. If I were closer to retiring, or had some FAFSA/ACA considerations, I might play it differently.

jarchack

Not in Texas they won't say it out loud. Even though the ACA is called Obamacare, it's based on a Republican health care plan and is still a big handout to companies like UHC and Kaiser. I have no problem with socialized healthcare like most 1st world countries have but it's never going to happen here. Unless you are super wealthy or a member of Congress, healthcare is always going to suck for most people in the US.

tldrstrange

Just make sure to call it ACA and he'll be all over it.

Loss_Leaders_LLC

ACA? I havent mentioned anything by name, youre projecting

BagSelect

Well, the ACA wasn’t named after anyone, so the information you gave is, objectively, inaccurate. But if you feel the need to pretend your comment wasn’t intended solely to signal your political affiliation, thats on you.

pickandpray

Agreed, system is messed up. More people need to care enough to vote. Healthcare is all kinds of messed up and only made worse by those who were trying to kill ACA but I don't see an easy solution.

TheHarb81

I can take money out of the Roth during retirement to keep my income low to qualify for ACA subsidies. It’s good to have a mix between traditional, roth, and taxable to ladder your retirement spending.

chickenmcdiddle

MinuteClinic visits are free with some Aetna ACA plans. Other insurers offer a $0, no cost share walk-in clinic benefit. But all of this is very situation-specific.

chickenmcdiddle

MinuteClinics are charged as “walk-in” clinics, which is a category unto themselves. Most ACA-qualified plans will utilize a primary care level of benefit to walk in clinics versus urgent care clinics. In short, they’re net cheaper (provided the services rendered are covered).

AlfB63

You can interpret however you choose however I can tell you that I am 60 and have a health plan from ACA. About 80% of my retirement savings are in a traditional IRA and I’m struggling with keeping my income high enough to live on and yet keep my ACA subsidies to a high enough level to make my premiums reasonable. And that ignores the fact that I would like to be shifting money from my traditional to my Roth but can’t due to how it will affect my subsidy. I am fearful of how bad taxes are going to hit me when RMDs come into play.

AlfB63

The issue with ACA premiums is that they scale with income. At the limit of $110k, you get no subsidy but you start paying a portion of your premium well before that. I took one of the cheapest bronze plans and it would have been $1800 per month without subsidies. Your income level needs to be around $75k to get enough subsidy to cover that amount. I am not saying that Roth vrs Traditional is clearly one way or the other, only that there is more to it than differences in tax amounts.

charleswj

There's a big difference between saving the max in your 401k and literally nothing else, and saving the max, using a Roth IRA, freeing up that deferred income tax that can be also be contributed to Roth or brokerage, invested HSA dollars, and otherwise having savings beyond just pre-tax. Especially in a FIRE scenario, which is what we're dealing with when we talk about ACA subsidies in retirement, you're almost always talking about higher than average earners whose savings easily overflow 401k deferral limits, regular or backdoor Roth IRA, HSA, and into (often) significant taxable account balances. It's rarely better to forgo potential pre-tax contributions.

justdaisukeyo

How old are you and how much do you have saved in pre-tax retirement accounts? Based on what you have told us, I think it's close to a push. However, since you posting in this subreddit, I am going to assume you are saving a lot. Based on that, I think investing in Roth when you are in the 22 or 24 marginal tax bracket is the right thing to do and switch to pre-tax after your salary pushes you into higher brackets. This is based on the possibility that ACA, IRMAA, and RMD may make Roth more beneficial to you during retirement. I am 55 and have most of my money in pre-tax money and a small amount in Roth. After going through my tax strategy in retirement, I realized that I should've put more money into Roth. BTW, this is not a simple question and it doesn't become clear until you've done some tax strategy forecasting during your retirement.

Squezeplay

Not talking about ACA really, but in retirement you have a lot of long term income, so every $ you have in ordinary income eats up your long term 0% bracket. So that's like a 15% penalty right there. Then there are like a bunch of different subsidies and tax credits that only apply to various levels of income, including ACA, the point is roth is almost certainly going to be better. Plus most people eventually make over the roth limit, so maxing it when you can contribute is the only way to have a balance of both if you want.

wild_b_cat

Because the extra costs of losing ACA subsidies are often way lower than the tax savings.

Kandals

Do the premiums increase outweigh the tax savings? Not only will most people shift from an expected 22% bracket married to a 12% bracket married, but distributions are also not subject to FICA taxes. Also, for married couples ACA income limit is 110k and how many need distributions greater than 110k/yr during retirement today? I always suggest putting some into roth for years when you may have a large purchase (like a large downpayment on a car or boat or RV or home) and don't want to significantly increase your 401k distribution and increase your taxable income.

AlfB63

It's not quite as simple as tax rate now versus retirement. I retired early with most of my money in a traditional IRA. Most programs such as ACA and Medicare will base premiums in part on income level. Having more money in a Roth let's you have more income without affecting the premiums from those programs. So my advice is to not load up on traditional IRA even if the tax advantage to doing so is expected. It can back you in a corner of being able to have more income but doing so increases premiums. My advice is to do some of both if possible.

AlfB63

One thing to keep in mind is that retiring earlier than 65 means you may want to use ACA for healthcare and the premium you pay will be affected by income. Income from a Roth account will not count against you where a traditional will. The amount of income that you can take out for living will be constrained from a traditional unless you pay higher premiums. A Roth will be much more flexible allowing more income while getting higher ACA subsides.

ppith

Max 401K, max HSA, max Roth IRA (backdoor). After that, then you think about taxable. If you want to retire early, investing in a taxable can help you get there faster. Also, if you do a Roth ladder later in life you can't touch the funds from the first year of the ladder for five years. Also, if you retire early you can mix selling long term capital gains with a Roth ladder to get your income to the minimum for free ACA. https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=323366

TheGargageMan

Roth is probably best of all worlds. I just checked and Roth distributions don't count as income if you retire early and go on ACA marketplace health insurance and are hoping for income based subsidies. There are so many issues involving things like taxability of social security, medicare income penalties, and capital gains. Getting a handle on it when you are still in your prime earning years is better than taking a look when you are already locked in, so good on you for exploring.

JCLBUBBA

How does not owning a house make it hard to qualify for ACA subsidy? Thought it was just income based. On unrelated note, housing like everything a cycle. I am not a flipper but have made as much profit as a single owner buying, living for a few years, fixing up and moving than from my work salary which is decent. The tax free cap gains helps immensely. Current cycle terrible but it will change, always does. My first house bought for 279. Found a flyer from when it sold 10 years ago for same, 279. I sold at 580 after 5 years. Just save cash and be ready to ride the cycle. Gotta be patient and have 5 yr horizon.

redditmailalex

Sure, same if you were rending the same unit for 15 years, you are likely in a better shape for your rent as well. Do ACA limits rise yearly? I've never really looked.

S7EFEN

ACA subsidies arent means tested, only income based. pay off house, have lower withdrawals versus no paid off house and higher withdrawals. the savings here can be dramatic.

S7EFEN

the hard part of not owning a house is qualifying for ACA subsidies

purpletree37

Here is a small slice of some of the things we do at our RIA (just the tip of the iceberg). Investment Planning (rebalancing, asset allocation, tax loss harvesting, RMD’s, Roth conversion plans, tax efficient allocations, employer plan fund selection, small business plans, HSA/FSA strategy, stock option strategy etc). Financial Planning (Savings rate, meeting goals, managing property, cashflow, debt, college savings etc) Tax Planning (annual taxes, business accounting, Investment strategy, cost basis tracking, depreciation, RMD/Trust taxes, stock option taxation, etc) Retirement Planning (Social Security/Medicare strategy, Wills, Trusts, PoA, Medical directives, legacy planning, charitable donations, donor advised funds, beneficiary tracking, gift and estate tax etc) Insurance Planning (Life Insurance needs, risk analysis, cost/benefit comparisons, work benefit selection, long term care, auto, disability evaluations, Medicare, Medicaid, ACA, and COBRA strategy etc) Retirement Planning

S7EFEN

that's a wildly high number. nationally that number is more like 4%, inflation not adjusted. CA saw something like 6.2% looking back 30 years. mostly the house you buy to live in can only be expected to outperform inflation mildly. RE as an investment is mostly good due to leverage and favorable tax treatment when selling, and with regards to means tested programs like ACA.

Embarassed_Tackle

It came back in 7 years. But did they lose their job? Did they have to cash out their 401k at that reduced amount just to make house payments? The 2007 / 2008 financial crisis did more than just make investments go lower. With that comes job losses, possibly adjustable-rate mortgages being stuck at a high rate, etc. And this was pre-ACA so if she got a bad diagnosis...

Funny-Jihad

>People like trump because he’s not a career politician That's not why, it's because you're caught up in a cult of personality. It's quite pathetic to be worshipping a wanna-be billionaire conartist as if he's "not part of the establishment". He promised you so many things, and you conveniently just forget all about them. "Clean up the swamp", what happened? Nothing. Prosecute Hillary? They tried and tried, nothing. Replace ACA? LOL no. Build a wall? Fuck no. Have it paid for by Mexico? LOL, no. The list just goes on and on.

TruthNotTrash2

Remember when Trump wanted to kill ACA (still wants to), stripping Healthcare from way more people than the unvaccinated? No? And you think that marching for someone who was murdered by the cops, proven in a court of law, is wrong? Oddly enough, I am not shocked by your support of your cult leader. Let's see how it works out for him.

Historical_Low4458

If you're hoping that Obama care will be better than the original version, then you're better off having a discussion with your spouse about getting a job today. Republicans have been destroying ACA from day 1, and as long as they have any sort of control in the government, it isn't going to get better.

classycatman

One of the leading presidential candidates indicated in recent days that if he is re-elected, “Obamacare”/ACA is toast.

JustBath5245

Hoping ACA will be better then, otherwise hoping my spouse who’s 7 years younger will get a job that will get us some basic medical coverage.

lottadot

> where did we exit what the op asked and started talking ACA? I brought it up, for awareness, because of this statement: > Dividend income is almost tax free under 100k Which I believe alluded to: > Some or all net capital gain may be taxed at 0% if your taxable income is less than or equal to $41,675 for single and married filing separately, $83,350 for married filing jointly or qualifying surviving spouse or $55,800 for head of household. Which is _true_. But _many_ people do _not_ realize that the ACA's ~10% *doesn't* have that gap. So, if you're planning to have dividend income within that capital gains "free" area, just be aware of this down the road. I've seen some horror stories over in the r/fire, r/leanfire groups where people were bit quite badly because of this :(

mygirltien

yes i get all this, i am asking where did the op or anyone else bring up ACA except for the comment above?

lufisraccoon

ACA market premiums go down as a function of income. For instance, at 200% of federal poverty level, families only need to pay 2% of income on ACA premiums. Dividend income in taxable accounts counts against this, and will push folks into higher cost health care plans. On the flip side, if an investor's assets pay little/no dividends, the investor can strategically sell assets to incur more or less income each year. Hence, an investor might be able to strategically take advantage of ACA subsidies without dividends, but might be unable to do so with dividends, and end up spending dividend income on ACA subsidies.

mygirltien

Ok you lost me, where did we exit what the op asked and started talking ACA?

lottadot

The smoking hole in that blanket is the ACA healthcare in the US; it about equates to a 10%/yr tax on those capital gains. The `MAGI` doesn't exclude capital gains.

Striking_Green7600

Try the US Government, specifically the ACA which has a budget hole without a key pay-for (the reason this debt was nationalized in 2010), so it blows through it's budget ahead of schedule and continued funding gets held hostage by Mitch and Mike more easily because of increased appropriation needs.

hellegaard1

Call on Corning & Telecoms. Biden's ACA paying for 50% of broadband expansion products that are BABA compliant.

marsmat239

The ACA made it 29. 30 and up you need to offer health insurance if you are over a specific size.

Affectionate_Put7413

Roth has no RMD. Also if you want it to look like you make no money from 59.5 to 65, the Roth is a great option to do that. The amount of money you make affects how much ACA insurance is and a 401k/IRA will look like income when you withdraw. Not a bad idea to have both if possible. Depends on your situation.

sascourge

Health insurance premiums increases are not related to inflation as per the devaluation of the dollar, but rather an adjustment to the fairy-tale of the ACA.

ppith

Many FIRE people will use a Roth ladder to convert their pre-tax retirement accounts into their Roth during the retirement years where they have no income. Spread out over time to get ACA subsidies in some cases. https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/

AlexKingstonsGigolo

Without getting political, that seems statistically improbable; otherwise, the ACA would never have been enacted into law.

East-Technology-7451

United health I believe as best preformance since the ACA

Spok3nTruth

one of the good things obama did that nobody talks about was the ACA.

ithinktherefore88

You just need to crunch the numbers. As others have mentioned, there are ways to access 401k early penalty free (ex: SEPP). BUT, consider the 10% penalty in context with having your pre-tax dollars growing tax free. For me personally I am able to get an extra $5k+ invested per year that would otherwise be taxed. Then consider your state & federal tax liabilities / margins for the income you need. Even WITH the 10% penalty you still might come out ahead. If you plan on retiring early and use ACA, your 401k withdrawals can help you meet subsidy income requirements. Additionally, if you ever get sued for something, your retirement accounts are extremely hard to penetrate.

sdf_cardinal

It takes 3 decades to get there because of Republicans who believe the free market will solve all problems and have opposed everything from the creation of Medicare, Medicare and ACA… and are backed by corporations to block laws like this.

Brokenest

>Your examples are doing a great job of showing why government laws setting minimum standards are needed. So why is the King not acting? Showing that the King needs to do something doesn't really help with the fact that he won't. You're defending the King's actions by saying that he is influenced by this or that but it's a bit of a weak game. That's what makes it ignorant; it's not that we don't need intervention but that we know it isn't coming until pretty much the roof caves in. It's a horrible insurance plan. >When the ACA was being argued do you know how much Papa John’s owner John Schnatter found out the cost of providing full health insurance for all uninsured, full-time employees cost per pizza sold? It cost 14 cents more on a large pizza. He really believed this was a reason NOT to do this. This guy has to be brought along kicking and screaming and had to be MANDATED to give his employees insurance. This guy is not the exception, but a good example of why government mandates are needed. The question is not whether it is necessary. The question is whether or not it can be done timely. For the ACA and No Surprises Act the United States is like three decades behind. How does it take 3 decades to get there? Almost every anti-discrimination measure in the U.S. on the books is 20 years behind. Like, I get it, patriotism and shit, but waiting for the government to decide to give you a nibble just seems so ... Sad.

sdf_cardinal

You have yet to tell me why I’m ignorant. Your examples are doing a great job of showing why government laws setting minimum standards are needed. When the ACA was being argued do you know how much Papa John’s owner John Schnatter found out the cost of providing full health insurance for all uninsured, full-time employees cost per pizza sold? It cost 14 cents more on a large pizza. He really believed this was a reason NOT to do this. This guy has to be brought along kicking and screaming and had to be MANDATED to give his employees insurance. This guy is not the exception, but a good example of why government mandates are needed.

Brokenest

> Who do you think was fighting Obamacare tooth and nail? This is the part where I go "INSURANCE COMPANIES!" and you chuckle and go "HYUCK HYUCK SEE!" but actually a lot of businesses weren't in favor, including small businesses, who had to suddenly carry the burden of actually insuring their workers. Some of the largest lobbyists were groups that represented Mom & Pop shops and actually some of the largest proponents were places like Microsoft who fixed the website for free and Google who openly supported it. I don't know what Apple did. What I do know is that the idea that the guy down the street wants you to have affordable healthcare isn't necessarily true and the plot is mixed with no clear "Corporate Overlord" narrative to be seen. > Who do you think was fighting against adopting the no surprises act? Americans. Or, said a different way, your neighbors believing strongly in meritocracy; while insurance certainly had a hand to play the belief in the U.S. of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps is still prevalent and still heavily impedes charitable contributions with a strong emphasis on work ethic and the age old "If you don't work you don't eat" is still very alive even among those who are turning towards universal basic income. The Big Bad is the society itself. Much of the developed world has moved beyond such low level moralistic thought so it certainly isn't something that one could say is a corporate force because corporations, if that were the only opponents, have failed in most other countries in the West on the planet. >The reasons we have the protections in the ACA and with the No Surprises Act are because of government. No, the reason we have these things is because the society was needing them so badly that in the 30 years that everyone else got on board and realized it was kind of dumb to not treat people in the ER, American Exceptionism kept on trucking. It's so sad you're reducing history to a mere footnote. It's such a rich tapestry and you've sucked all the color out.

sdf_cardinal

So I think you’re confused and aren’t making the point you think you are. You say >The solution to the healthcare system is not a governmental process… Then you also say >Obamacare, a small step towards a more universal healthcare in the United States, was fought tooth and nail in ways people can't imagine. The No Surprises Act came into law in 2020 but the idea has been proposed over and over. It took a pandemic, global, to finally get the idea through. If you want a fast track to an outcome you want private business in the United States. Who do you think was fighting Obamacare tooth and nail? Who do you think was fighting against adopting the no surprises act? It was corporations and business interests (primarily insurance related) who fought these laws. The reasons we have the protections in the ACA and with the No Surprises Act are because of government. We got these things despite corporate pushback.

LOLBaltSS

The stupidest thing is that approval ratings in polling changed based on if it was called the ACA or "Obamacare". People straight up thought they were completely separate things.

metaridley18

You aren't wrong but shots and doctors visits are offered for free because preventative care lowers the overall cost of care in the long run. And unlike a car, the insurer can't just say that it's too expensive to repair a human body and offer a check for the blue book value. So they provide incentives to do preventative care. That said, I'm pretty sure free preventative care was one of the provisions in the ACA and I'm not sure if it was requested by insurers or imposed upon them. Either way it's good public health policy since it lowers overall cost of care for the general public.

say592

That could make sense! Maybe $12k for individual, $20k for individual HDHP. Double it for spouse/family. Or make an absolute max out of pocket (I know the ACA kind of already did) and just make it that + the average cost of premiums + an additional margin for savings, glasses, teeth, etc.

Advanced-Guard-4468

ACA props it up.

ShortUSA

Simple, stop overpaying for everything. The federal government has become a corporate welfare machine. Why does the US pay 3-4 times what other developed nations pay for Rx drugs? Healthcare is 3 times. Between Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, federal employee including active servicemen, healthcare is the greatest cost by far. Consider a recent corporate welfare program. The cable industry is being made obsolete and their home Internet/broadband offerings are the most expensive in the world. These companies became fat dumb and happy after they were allowed to create regional monopolies. (They used to compete). Spectrum in the West, Comcast northeast, etc. Well of late people are leaving then for streaming TV, 5g Internet, etc. They lobby government to give them money and only them money - 'to subsidize poor people's home Internet'. Smaller no Internet providers and even large 5g home Internet providers are not eligible for this money. This is a corporate welfare program dressed up as helping the poor, very much like ACA, and many other programs. In a nutshell, the corporations do not want to complete on price so they convince Uncle Sam to pay them. The federal government should be creating an environment of competition in order to achieve lower prices, not giving handouts to corporations who'd rather not compete on price. I could give example after example, but you get the idea.

absoluteunitVolcker

No they don't did you even read it lmao? >Find out how the ACA should be improved, and why improving the ACA is preferable to pursuing Medicare-for-All

Blakencaken

I'm a Health Insurance Agent. I sell private plans that don't cover pregnancy for half the cost of ACA plans. So many people are switching to these plans because they're finding out they're getting raped for Health Care. It's really sad. The plans we offer have no deductible or co-pays unlike most major ACA plans that have a 10-15k deductible. Insane.

Delphizer

ACA was supposed to put people on Medicaid, so hospitals didn't have to eat the cost of the uninsured poor. States went to courts so they wouldn't have to pay 10% of the premiums(90% covered by the feds). Republicans made sure it didn't work. ACA just standardized insurance plans and put them in a marketplace, they didn't cause this problem

paloaltothrowaway

Car insurance isn’t health insurance. It’s regulated by the states not by ACA

ScampersInATuxedo

Affordable Care Act, and just as the experts predicted, is going to get far worse before it gets better. When the bill passed, it locked every American into requiring health insurance, or suffer a penalty. What happens when an incentivized program is locked in? Corruption and price increases. Exactly as warned. Almost instantly, the healthcare industry changed. What was \*supposed\* to lower costs as everyone is chipping in instead did the opposite. From its passing, healthcare has increased an average of 30% *per year.* Making matters worse, the introduction of the HDHP (High Deductible Health Plan) has also become standard across all major plans. This means not only are Americans paying more per month, but the out-of-pocket expense must first be covered before the limit and 80/20 take affect. It's also a very big problem the HDHP resets every year, requiring (on average) $3k for single plans and $6800 for family plans. While the requirement for health insurance is no longer part of the ACA, no one bothered to force insurance companies from adapting their price gouging and it continues to this day.